Omer Asik has formally asked the team to trade him

[tomtucker]

:oldlol: :roll:


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9456945/omer-asik-wants-trade-wake-dwight-howard-add-houston-rockets-say-no


great start dwight !

[CelticBaller]

And why don't the rockets trade him? shit the bum has a lot of value

[Baliod]

Interesting that the rockets intend to play Omer and Dwight together. That is one scary defensive core:eek:

[leopoldstotch]

I hear the Bucks are willing to take him. They have a love for picking up tall men.

[ZHAKIDD532]

:oldlol: :roll:


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9456945/omer-asik-wants-trade-wake-dwight-howard-add-houston-rockets-say-no


great start dwight !
What did Dwight do exactly?

[1~Gibson~1]

Trade him to Cleveland please! Zeller + Picks for Asik :lol

Irving / Jack
Waiters / Serekev
Gee / Clark
Thompson / Bennett
Varejao / Asik

[hawkfan]

Please Danny Ferry - get this done.

Actually plenty of teams would want him - Golden State, Atlanta, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Boston, Philadelphia, Portland, Sacramento.

[longtime lurker]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3562114/and-so-it-begins-o.gif

[CelticBaller]

What did Dwight do exactly?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91DtqQFOS_Y

[Just2McFly]

Atlanta has to get him ASAP

[Inferno]

Thinking about whether the Blazers should go for him...maybe trade involving Lopez..

[DuMa]

too bad. I think he could be a great backup C for when Dwight gets in foul trouble. and he will get in foul trouble.

[longtime lurker]

Please Danny Ferry - get this done.

Actually plenty of teams would want him - Golden State, Atlanta, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Boston, Philadelphia, Portland, Sacramento.

Never gonna happen. Apparently Horford playing center gives Ferry boners

[Peteballa]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3562114/and-so-it-begins-o.gif

seeing this makes me want to watch the LOTR series again. so good

[wang4three]

Trade him to Cleveland please! Zeller + Picks for Asik :lol

Irving / Jack
Waiters / Serekev
Gee / Clark
Thompson / Bennett
Varejao / Asik


Nice get traded only to backup Varejao. I'd like to see him go to OKC or Washington.

[SpecialQue]

Omer, c'est chic.

[1~Gibson~1]

Nice get traded only to backup Varejao. I'd like to see him go to OKC or Washington.Yea but he'd get way more PT here. He'd probably even start with Varejao and we bring Thompson and Bennett off of the bench. We need another rim protector badly.

[bagelred]

you think Daryl Morey is going to trade him? The guy would never do anyone a favor. He just sees Asik as an asset....he's not going anywhere.

[Haymaker]

Splitter + Neal for Asik. :applause:

[Nick Young]

Asik to LA for MWP+Meeks:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Nick Young]

The Dwightmare begins in Houston already!


Dwightmare III: Texas Chainsaw Massacre:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[pegasus]

Dallas and SAS could really use him, but I can't see Houston dealing with them.

I'm sure NYK would like a Chandler-Asik swap and throw in Amare for fillers but it ain't happening.:lol

[frmsea2okc]

Man i think Asik is underrated. He KILLED okc last season in the playoffs. (Granted that was mostly against Perk)

I say Portland trades Lopez, Allen Crabbe, a first (hopefully not next years)

Or OKC trades Jackson/Lamb

[Scholar]

Trade him to Cleveland please! Zeller + Picks for Asik :lol

Irving / Jack
Waiters / Serekev
Gee / Clark
Thompson / Bennett
Varejao / Asik

I think Omer's trade request has been put in place to avoid being a backup C.

[Clifton]

Obviously, what needs to happen here is Asik for Ryan Anderson. It would make both teams dramatically better, and Davis is NOT a center.

If the Pelicans (foolishly) won't accept the deal, then I'd love to see OKC hop on this -- though I can't see what they could offer Houston.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

I think Omer's trade request has been put in place to avoid being a backup C.
yeah, props to Asik for having some pride and demanding to start. I know some players would just be like "I'm getting paid tons of money to be a bench player? coo"

But yeah, even if they want to keep him, I don't see it being hard for Houston to find suitors for Asik. They don't really need anything in return, maybe just picks, so a deal should be do-able. They could sign back Dalembert to be Dwight's backup.

[secund2nun]

I am a huge fan of centers, but Asik and Howard at the same time is not the best fit. They would be good overall based on D and rebounding alone which is why Asik should be traded for only a good deal , but on offense they would have problems with spacing. Asik and Howard provide no spacing at all not even mid range, both operate only in the paint, and both are poor free throw shooters. Also both are not that good at passing out of the post.

[FLDFSU]

You know OP, if Omer and Dwight were to switch places you would be saying how Dwight is a big baby and to stop asking for trades and for him to honor is contract.

Instead you are blaming the player who is signing the contract and not the player bitching.

[alanLA92]

Didn't Asik sign with the Rockets because he would be a starter? Kinda makes sense he doesn't wanna backup after just one year of starting.

[All Net]

No surprise he went there to start...

[Clifton]

on offense they would have problems with spacing.
To be sure. Neither player can score outside of a dunk or handle the ball at all or pass or guard anyone other than a center. Both are great at defensive rebounding, and good at help D, in the same way. No way would they fit together.

I don't know of another team that couldn't use a guy like Asik, though. These are the two best defensive rebounders in the whole league. There will be suitors.

[Don Klein]

great start dwight !

Thanks, Obama!

[WayOfWade]

Can't really blame him. He just got the starting roll he's been working for his whole life, and now it might be gone.

[lakerspng]

can the Lakers get him? just a switch at center? trade an expiring MWP? *shrugs*

[R.I.P.]

you think Daryl Morey is going to trade him? The guy would never do anyone a favor. He just sees Asik as an asset....he's not going anywhere.

He will, when Asik starts owning Dwight in practice and Dwight starts crying about it. :roll:

[GOBB]

Please Danny Ferry - get this done.

Actually plenty of teams would want him - Golden State, Atlanta, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Boston, Philadelphia, Portland, Sacramento.

Why would the Sixers want him given how much he is due to earn??? Due to Houston backloading the deal the same as Lins. Cap eater, no thanks.

[PickernRoller]

Player requests to be traded:

Other teams lowball....

[R.I.P.]

Why would the Sixers want him given how much he is due to earn??? Due to Houston backloading the deal the same as Lins.

He

[All Net]

Player requests to be traded:

Other teams lowball....

They won't move him for the sake of it..

[GOBB]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]He

[FireDavidKahn]

yeah, props to Asik for having some pride and demanding to start. I know some players would just be like "I'm getting paid tons of money to be a bench player? coo"

But yeah, even if they want to keep him, I don't see it being hard for Houston to find suitors for Asik. They don't really need anything in return, maybe just picks, so a deal should be do-able. They could sign back Dalembert to be Dwight's backup.
Being a starter or a "bench player" should be irrelevant. It's all about the minutes. If Houston were to not start him but still give him 30+ minutes a game then he should realize that and not let his ego get in the way.

[R.I.P.]

I thought they had the same deal financially?

They do, but Asik is actually good at basketball. You want him to play for your team both years and beyond. He earns 5 this year and 15 next year, which means you pay him 10 on average, which he is worth easily.

Lin

[hawkfan]

Hawks get

Omer Asik

Rockets get

First round pick (top 10 protected)

Rockets clear out 8.3 million and sign JJ Hickson with that amount cleared out.
Or they sign Monta Ellis to play in the backcourt with Harden.

Ellis-Harden-Howard-Parsons - very solid scoring unit.

[R.I.P.]

Hawks get

Omer Asik

Rockets get

First round pick (top 10 protected)

Rockets clear out 8.3 million and sign JJ Hickson with that amount cleared out.
Or they sign Monta Ellis to play in the backcourt with Harden.

Ellis-Harden-Howard-Parsons - very solid scoring unit.

Mavs get Asik, Rockets get Marion and Carter.

Obviously Cuban says no, because we contending next season in the old age Over 35 division. :lol

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

Ellis-Harden-Howard-Parsons - very solid scoring unit.
Ellis and Harden on the floor together? :no:

[AngelEyes]

And why don't the rockets trade him? shit the bum has a lot of value

He's not a bum, he's a terrific defensive player.

[PickernRoller]

They won't move him for the sake of it..

Ok. That locker room drama is always good for a championship quest. Now the Rockets have a drama queen (Dwight) in there too.

Asik doesn't like playing back-up center, that much he has shown. Rumours say he and Dwight have some beef - ohh well.

[hawkfan]

Why would the Sixers want him given how much he is due to earn??? Due to Houston backloading the deal the same as Lins. Cap eater, no thanks.

It ends up being 8.3 million cap hit. Only NY had that crazy cap hit.

[hawkfan]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]He

[mateoboz]

I really like the idea of keeping Dwight and Asik together. I hope we can talk him down and these guys have a chance to mesh. If not, I like the idea of trading for Ryan Anderson. Or the idea hawkfan had of moving him for a draft pick, clearing the salary room, and signing J.J. Hickson. But, despite the disadvantages and offensive limitations of playing these guys together, I really hope we can work this out with Omer and keep both him and Dwight.

[KG215]

Being a starter or a "bench player" should be irrelevant. It's all about the minutes. If Houston were to not start him but still give him 30+ minutes a game then he should realize that and not let his ego get in the way.
But you can't give him 30+ minutes a game, or even 25+ minutes a game if you plan on playing Howard 35 MPG...unless they play them together 10-15 minutes per game which will create a mismatch on the defensive end and horrible spacing on the offensive end.

Asik is a very good and very useful center, but he's not one of those C/PF combos, and him and Dwight on the floor together would be a very odd and very bad fit.

[longtime lurker]

Hawks get

Omer Asik

Rockets get

First round pick (top 10 protected)

Rockets clear out 8.3 million and sign JJ Hickson with that amount cleared out.
Or they sign Monta Ellis to play in the backcourt with Harden.

Ellis-Harden-Howard-Parsons - very solid scoring unit.

That's too much for a guy that wants out. Spurs should make a play for him.

[nerds]

Don't fvkc with a Turk!

Asik is entering his early prime years and relegating him to the bench could jeopordise his next contract!

Asik beasted last season, he is backup to nobody including Dwight!

Oh btw Asik hasn't had major back surgery, Rockets good luck with that!

[DMAVS41]

But you can't give him 30+ minutes a game, or even 25+ minutes a game if you plan on playing Howard 35 MPG...unless they play them together 10-15 minutes per game which will create a mismatch on the defensive end and horrible spacing on the offensive end.

Asik is a very good and very useful center, but he's not one of those C/PF combos, and him and Dwight on the floor together would be a very odd and very bad fit.

This. Trade him and shed Lin in the process while freeing up cap space and getting players you actually need.

Asik and Lin are worthless to a healthy Rockets team...well..that is strong, but you just would rather have something else than 15 minutes max of Asik a game. He's a good insurance policy if Howard gets hurt, but the Rockets aren't winning shit without a dominant Howard to begin with.

[Clifton]

Being a starter or a "bench player" should be irrelevant. It's all about the minutes. If Houston were to not start him but still give him 30+ minutes a game then he should realize that and not let his ego get in the way
Dwight is an old-school defensive anchor and a historically great defensive rebounder. He's the kind of player you want on the floor 35-40 minutes a night. He's all stability and presence. If you undermine that in any way, you lose the Dwight Howard effect.

A good player who's jealous of Dwight's role and minutes, and who can't do anything other than the exact same stuff Dwight can do, is therefore a great danger to team chemistry. What if Asik does earn some of Howard's minutes? (They obviously can't be on the floor at the same time.) What does that do for Howard's confidence? And what if Howard plays as he should? Is Asik giving Bulls-era effort, going back to the spot minute role, after a year of playing starter's minutes? Or does he get discouraged?

Keeping Asik on the team is a player management nightmare. You could ruin both Howard and Asik by keeping him on. The road has to be paved for Howard completely - it has to be his team.

[kNicKz]

Respect to Omer for not taking the South Beach team up route

[longtime lurker]

Respect to Omer for not taking the South Beach team up route

Lol I don't think anyone has Omer Asik in mind when they think of a big 3 :oldlol:

[kNicKz]

Lol I don't think anyone has Omer Asik in mind when they think of a big 3 :oldlol:

Referring to role players like Ray and Mike that could be focal points on other teams for more money but ok whatever works for you

[DMAVS41]

Are people really faulting Asik? He just got done having a great year and proving he's a very good center. He doesn't want to sit on the bench all year. I mean...he played 35 minutes a game in the playoffs. What is his max if Howard is healthy in the playoffs next year? 15 minutes a game? I doubt it's even that high actually...

He doesn't want to sit on the bench and it's going to cost him money once his contract is up. Really unfair.

He's smart to ask for a trade to get out. And the Rockets should listen...the last thing they need is problems in the locker room with high expectations and Howard in the mix.

[LosBulls]

With the value of Centers as high as it is today, Houston would be stupid not to trade him.

Packaging Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin could land them a very good PF.

[bluechox2]

It ends up being 8.3 million cap hit. Only NY had that crazy cap hit.
ny and chicago, hence they didnt match the offer

[FireDavidKahn]

But you can't give him 30+ minutes a game, or even 25+ minutes a game if you plan on playing Howard 35 MPG...unless they play them together 10-15 minutes per game which will create a mismatch on the defensive end and horrible spacing on the offensive end.

Asik is a very good and very useful center, but he's not one of those C/PF combos, and him and Dwight on the floor together would be a very odd and very bad fit.
Yes you can, play him at PF when you need defense.

When Harden and Parsons are on the floor with Howard/Asik you wont need much offense from Asik.

[chips93]

Interesting that the rockets intend to play Omer and Dwight together. That is one scary defensive core:eek:

id say thats just a negotiating tactic, to give themselves a little leverage

[chips93]

Yes you can, play him at PF when you need defense.

When Harden and Parsons are on the floor with Howard/Asik you wont need much offense from Asik.

playing 2 guys who are ineffective offensively, outside of five 5 is very tough

i dont see how it would work.

what nba teams play 2 bigs as offensively inept as howard-asik together?

[FireDavidKahn]

playing 2 guys who are ineffective offensively, outside of five 5 is very tough

i dont see how it would work.

what nba teams play 2 bigs as offensively inept as howard-asik together?
It wouldn't matter when you're playing them with Harden and Parsons. The defense those 2 could contribute together would outweigh their offensive woes.

[buddha]

playing 2 guys who are ineffective offensively, outside of five 5 is very tough

i dont see how it would work.

what nba teams play 2 bigs as offensively inept as howard-asik together?

perkins-ibaka

[KG215]

perkins-ibaka
Ibaka has a jumper, can shoot out to the 3P line, and is apt at getting offensive rebound putbacks.

But good try.

[buddha]

Ibaka has a jumper, can shoot out to the 3P line, and is apt at getting offensive rebound putbacks.

But good try.

except Perkins can't even make a layup so he negates all that.

[SevereUpInHere]

Sounds like Houston want someone who can give them some floor spacing with Dwight out there.

Asik for Bargs.

:oldlol:










:(

[nerds]

Go watch some YouTube of Asik. The argument he has no offense is a complete joke. Asik has a nice pump fake, uses his left hand with ease and confidence, dunks hard and even has an improving jump shot!

While its in Asiks best interest to be dealt, if he stays pairing Howard and Asik to start in the front court is downright scary for the rest of the league.

Both would average 10 plus boards a game and dominate the paint.

If spacing is an issue then go and require 2Pat to mix things up (2Pat should never have been dealt) but the 2 7footers have to start.

If Lin stays, his assist numbers will soar big time and his points should go up especially with the added protection he will have on the floor.

In addition having Asik next to Howard will give Howard his own added protection and less wear and tear on the body as Asik will take his share of the bruises and hits and give his own back!

[KG215]

It wouldn't matter when you're playing them with Harden and Parsons. The defense those 2 could contribute together would outweigh their offensive woes.
Then you're asking one of them to guard the other team's opposing PF's which would probably create a mistmatch with so many quick, athletic, stretch PF's in today's NBA. And a lot of teams might even counter by going small, creating an even bigger mismatch with Dwight or Asik trying to guard a wing.

Playing Asik and Howard together more than 5-10 minutes per game would more than likely be a disaster. It's an awful fit. It wouldn't be anything like the "Twin Towers" days of Hakeem and Sampson in Houston, or Duncan and Robinson in San Antonio. Like chips said, neither are effective offensively outside of 5-feet from the basket, and the defensive impact of one of them would be limited since he would be taken away from the basket.

[imdaman99]

i like asik and id take him over chandler. but since thats not gonna happen, i hope he goes anywhere but miami.

dont need the rich getting richer :facepalm

[CanYouDigIt]

Rockets are looking for a stretch 4, just trade for Ryan Anderson.

[Jomo23]

Rockets are looking for a stretch 4, just trade for Ryan Anderson.

Or Brandon Bass, maybe :confusedshrug:

[imdaman99]

Rockets are looking for a stretch 4, just trade for Ryan Anderson.
Or Brandon Bass, maybe :confusedshrug:

[ALBballer]

Asik+Lin

for

Ilyasova+Fillers+Picks

[KG215]

Why would the Bucks want Asik when they've got Sanders?

[MiseryCityTexas]

Rockets are looking for a stretch 4, just trade for Ryan Anderson.
I think the Rockets can get more for Asik than just Brandon Bass or Ryan Anderson.

[Kblaze8855]

Playing Dwight next to Asik 10-15 minutes a night wont hurt. If you cant think of pf/C combos where neither can shoot you just missed a lot of basketball.

Dwight isnt some immobile big bodied 7 footer anyway. Hes like 6'9''. He played the 4 next to Darko and looked fine. And Darko looked better than he ever did or has since.

Id take two physical bigmen on my team all day. Teams managed to get spacing with two non shooting bigmen for 50 years and a lot of it they didnt have 3 good shooters on the outside to help.

A good coach works it out.

Id like to see Dwight get his pick and roll game going again. He and Jameer had a little connection. maybe Lin can get him going a bit too. They dont both need to stand on the low block and be in eachothers way.

[brandonislegend]

Sounds like Houston want someone who can give them some floor spacing with Dwight out there.

Asik for Bargs.

:oldlol:





:lol




:(

:oldlol:

[MiseryCityTexas]

Rockets don't want none of these garbage ass power forwards everyone is requesting in trades in this forum. Mchale feels that T Jones, Greg Smith, and Donatas Motiejunas can be just as good as alot of starting power forwards in the NBA.

[Carbine]

Playing Dwight next to Asik 10-15 minutes a night wont hurt. If you cant think of pf/C combos where neither can shoot you just missed a lot of basketball.

Dwight isnt some immobile big bodied 7 footer anyway. Hes like 6'9''. He played the 4 next to Darko and looked fine. And Darko looked better than he ever did or has since.

Id take two physical bigmen on my team all day. Teams managed to get spacing with two non shooting bigmen for 50 years and a lot of it they didnt have 3 good shooters on the outside to help.

A good coach works it out.

Id like to see Dwight get his pick and roll game going again. He and Jameer had a little connection. maybe Lin can get him going a bit too. They dont both need to stand on the low block and be in eachothers way.

Who's the last team that was successful and had two bigs playing 15 minutes together who can't shoot a lick? I honestly can't even think of one team off the top of my head who even employed this type of lineup, let alone succeed.



You mention Jameer and Dwight....well, a major reason why Dwight had so much room to role to the hoop, catch and finish was the stretch 4 they had out there, whether it was Rashard or Anderson or later Big Baby.

When Gortat and Howard were on the floor together, it was much tougher spacing wise.... and Gortat can at least shoot a bit. Asik is just brutal.

[longtime lurker]

Playing Dwight next to Asik 10-15 minutes a night wont hurt. If you cant think of pf/C combos where neither can shoot you just missed a lot of basketball.

Dwight isnt some immobile big bodied 7 footer anyway. Hes like 6'9''. He played the 4 next to Darko and looked fine. And Darko looked better than he ever did or has since.

Id take two physical bigmen on my team all day. Teams managed to get spacing with two non shooting bigmen for 50 years and a lot of it they didnt have 3 good shooters on the outside to help.

A good coach works it out.

Id like to see Dwight get his pick and roll game going again. He and Jameer had a little connection. maybe Lin can get him going a bit too. They dont both need to stand on the low block and be in eachothers way.

Hmm sounds like you're saying Dwight should move without the ball kind of like Tyson Chandler.......

[poido123]

What I want to see is a Ryan Anderson for Asik trade. Makes perfect sense for both teams.

Ryan Anderson and Dwight reunited and he is a rockets type player with their system.

Davis can shift over to his more preferable position at PF, working a tandem with Asik would work well IMO.

[NattyPButter]

They do, but Asik is actually good at basketball. You want him to play for your team both years and beyond. He earns 5 this year and 15 next year, which means you pay him 10 on average, which he is worth easily.



that's not how it works when teams are paying attention to their salary cap now. It's 5 this year and 15 mil next year. That 15 mil can put a lot of teams over the cap.

[hawkfan]

hawkfan Trade Scenario (where amazing happens):

Hawks get

Omer Asik
Donatas Montiejunas
1st round pick

Rockets get

Al Horford
DeShawn Stevenson

[Xsatyr]

that's not how it works when teams are paying attention to their salary cap now. It's 5 this year and 15 mil next year. That 15 mil can put a lot of teams over the cap.

The third year only counts as 8 million towards the cap. They pay 15 though.

[DMAVS41]

Playing Dwight next to Asik 10-15 minutes a night wont hurt. If you cant think of pf/C combos where neither can shoot you just missed a lot of basketball.

Dwight isnt some immobile big bodied 7 footer anyway. Hes like 6'9''. He played the 4 next to Darko and looked fine. And Darko looked better than he ever did or has since.

Id take two physical bigmen on my team all day. Teams managed to get spacing with two non shooting bigmen for 50 years and a lot of it they didnt have 3 good shooters on the outside to help.

A good coach works it out.

Id like to see Dwight get his pick and roll game going again. He and Jameer had a little connection. maybe Lin can get him going a bit too. They dont both need to stand on the low block and be in eachothers way.

The Rockets would have to totally change the way they play. Not saying they can't, but it would be a complete 180 playing those guys together for 15 minutes a game.

Might be good...might be terrible. I still say the best bet is to flip a valuable trade asset while shedding Lin to get things the Rockets actually need.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

I think they should trade to whoever loses the Bynum sweepstakes (Dallas or Cleveland). Get an unprotected 1st rnder or 2 in return and sign Dalembert to backup Dwight.

[spiegel]

hawkfan Trade Scenario (where amazing happens):

Hawks get

Omer Asik
Donatas Montiejunas
1st round pick

Rockets get

Al Horford
DeShawn Stevenson
replace Monti with Terrence Jones and you have a deal. Asik is a 11 points 12 boards with ultra elite interior defense. The type of his calibare don't come along to often and he is only 26.

[hawkfan]

replace Monti with Terrence Jones and you have a deal. Asik is a 11 points 12 boards with ultra elite interior defense. The type of his calibare don't come along to often and he is only 26.

Horford is the perfect fit for Howard at power forward.
He can shoot outside, post up, play defense, rebound, pass and handle the ball.

Otherwise:

Hawks get

Jeremy Lin
Omer Asik

Rockets get

Al Horford
DeShawn Stevenson
John Jenkins

[spiegel]

Horford is the perfect fit for Howard at power forward.
He can shoot outside, post up, play defense, rebound, pass and handle the ball.

Otherwise:

Hawks get

Jeremy Lin
Omer Asik

Rockets get

Al Horford
DeShawn Stevenson
John Jenkins
You gotta a deal.

Beverley
Harden
Parsons
Horford
Dwight

You got a deal.Game over western conference.Horford and Dwight will beast the middle and Harden and Parsons will fill it up.

[hawkfan]

Hawks draft John Jenkins and then we get Korver, Williams, Cunningham, have Teague, and then go out and get Ellis.

He gets no minutes to show he can play.

Stupid.

[tomtucker]

Didn't dwight just say it was God that told him to pick Houston ?..........and Omer is muslim ?.........oh yeah, gonna be Jihad in that lockerroom......:rockon:

.
There are two commonly accepted meanings of jihad: an inner spiritual struggle and an outer physical struggle.[2]

The "lesser jihad" is the physical struggle against the enemies of Islam.[2] This physical struggle can take a violent form or a non-violent form. The proponents of the violent form translate jihad as "holy war",


:oldlol:



.