Do Europeans appreciate basketball differently than Americans?

[Dr.J4ever]

Just from a recent thread about the under 19 FIBA World Championships dominated by the US to win the Gold, I read a Euro(not Euroleague) commenting that the US played "ugly ball" while congratulating the US.. If I remember correctly, he said that he couldn't stand to watch the US.

From my point of view, the US played beautifully, not just because I'm American, but because the US played great pressure defense. The only game I saw was the Gold Medal game which was close for 2.5 quarters, and then the US suffocated the Serbian attack almost completely. Which begs the question, how can winning basketball be labeled as "ugly ball"?

Do euros place too much emphasis on shooting, offensive execution, playing within the team but sacrifice individual creativity? Do euros place enough emphasis on athleticism, especially on defense? Does the full blown international zone discourage players from learning to play real mano y mano defense when required?

We see some of the things I mentioned in the NBA from internationals. We see a Euro PG or even big man drive to the hole, and even if he's wide open for a layup, instinctively pass it out to a 3 point shooter. It drives me nuts. "Throw it down", Bill Walton would say. We see internationals make one pass too many, too many times. We see Euro newbies struggle to play man defense on too many occasions that some American coaches seem to have developed a bias at times against putting Euros or internationals in a clutch defensive situation. There are exceptions of course(Rubio is one).

It's very clear. The US has dominated with it's style of athletic offense and defense, not just in the NBA, but more importantly in FIBA play. After 2004, the US has lost once(1). Once. Some games have been close, but you get the feeling if some of the close games were extended into a 7 game series, it would be a shut out, 4-0. That kind of dominance.

So Euros and other internationals really have to start developing players and appreciating aspects that they usually don't appreciate. If they don't, then the US will dominate the next 20 years again. Fine by me, but not good for the game of basketball.

[(e)]

It's our game. Always will be.

[TheReturn]

It's our game. Always will be.
Just because something originates somewhere, doesn't mean that the original will always be the best version. That said, I enjoy watching American basketball far more than European, and I'm from Amsterdam.

[BoutPractice]

Both sides have something to learn from each other.

Americans would be even better if they played better offense, focusing more on spacing, sharing the ball, off the ball screens, etc. Many European teams need to play like that, but when Americans decide to play like that, they're unstoppable.

[9erempiree]

Euro basketball is much more prettier in my opinion due team play. They move the ball better.

American basketball, which I love, emphasize more on pressure and getting the job done regardless how it looks. We are more athletic and I think running a true fast break without the ball even hitting the floor is a thing of beauty while others may not.

[Sakkreth]

Euro basketball is much more prettier in my opinion due team play. They move the ball better.

American basketball, which I love, emphasize more on pressure and getting the job done regardless how it looks. We are more athletic and I think running a true fast break without the ball even hitting the floor is a thing of beauty while others may not.

That's the good part about it, but when it comes to posession play u often see stuff like player with the ball tries to climb up against 3 defenders and not even thinking about passing and throws up a brick or turnover, in europe u most likely getting benched right after no matter who you are. Also some international teams are really good at fast breaks too, it might not get flashy dunks as often as americans, but for example lithuania is known for transition threes and good execution of fast breaks overall, spain is really great at it too and even in half court play spain doesn't like to hold on a ball for long, they try to make a shot in first half of shot clock to maintain fast tempo of the game, meanwhile ithuania for example if it's half court they will try to move ball as much as possible for best shot possible, it has downside though which is way more turnovers. Greece is the furthest away from american play on offense, but it ain't pretty game at all, it's slow mid court based play,but it fits well with their good defense though.

[9erempiree]

That's the good part about it, but when it comes to posession play u often see stuff like player with the ball tries to climb up against 3 defenders and not even thinking about passing and throws up a brick or turnover, in europe u most likely getting benched right after no matter who you are. Also some international teams are really good at fast breaks too, it might not get flashy dunks as often as americans, but for example lithuania is known for transition threes and good execution of fast breaks overall, spain is really great at it too and even in half court play spain doesn't like to hold on a ball for long, they try to make a shot in first half of shot clock to maintain fast tempo of the game, meanwhile ithuania for example if it's half court they will try to move ball as much as possible for best shot possible, it has downside though which is way more turnovers. Greece is the furthest away from american play on offense, but it ain't pretty game at all, it's slow mid court based play,but it fits well with their good defense though.

I have been watching 25 years of the NBA and I apologize for the Americans on here. I have watched more years than their age.

I agree with you, Lithuania is very good at basketball and so is Spain. Fast pace doesn't mean moving the ball quickly or running the fast break. I like how they play in regards to the shot clock. They try to score as quickly as possible because it baits their opponents in doing the same, which may not benefit the opponent.

[fiddy]

I dont watch European bball at all. Make what you want out of it.

[Sakkreth]

Just because something originates somewhere, doesn't mean that the original will always be the best version. That said, I enjoy watching American basketball far more than European, and I'm from Amsterdam.


I dont watch European bball at all. Make what you want out of it.

Well fans of eu countries where basketball is not popular often follows nba over euroleague and european basketball in general, because they don't really have much to root for when it comes to their own teams so might just watch highest lvl of play which is at nba, because if let's say you are from one of those countries where basketball is not popular at all if u choose to root for local team which at best get smashed at eurocup, not much fun really. Fans of countries where they have euroelague teams and basketball is popular can enjoy being a fan of their local team much more, they get to watch home games of nearly nba lvl of play.

[I<3NBA]

that comes from growing up watching soccer.

in soccer, you can't hog the ball no matter how good your dribbling skills are. you'll get swarmed no matter what. the beauty in watching soccer comes from watching teamwork.

so ofc to them, ugly basketball is when the ball doesn't move.

[Sakkreth]

that comes from growing up watching soccer.

in soccer, you can't hog the ball no matter how good your dribbling skills are. you'll get swarmed no matter what. the beauty in watching soccer comes from watching teamwork.

so ofc to them, ugly basketball is when the ball doesn't move.

That's one of the worst posts I've seen.

[JohnnySic]

Euros shoot too many 3's. A lot of screen-and-rolling, pick-and-popping. Basically, they play like the old white guy at the gym.

[Kews1]

America > The rest of the world.

[duskovujosevic]

considering u19 world champs, americans were struggling until 4th quarter. when europeans come close to usa in terms of atheticism we will see close games, and end of usa domination. until then this is usa's game.

[SilkkTheShocker]

considering u19 world champs, americans were struggling until 4th quarter. when europeans come close to usa in terms of atheticism we will see close games, and end of usa domination. until then this is usa game.


For Euro teams this is always when it ends up coming to.

http://americasolidarity.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/American-Patriot.jpg

[duskovujosevic]

the other solution is to give citizenship to fisically gifted kids from africa. and to develop them since childhood into best bball players on earth. they will be complete players.

[SilkkTheShocker]

the other solution is to give citizenship to fisically gifted kids from africa. and to develop them since childhood into best bball players on earth. they will be complete players.

There is no solution. It's America's game. Stick to cricket or whatever else the hell you guys do.

[Jon_Koncak]

considering u19 world champs, americans were struggling until 4th quarter. when europeans come close to usa in terms of atheticism we will see close games, and end of usa domination. until then this is usa's game.

You should concetrate on teaching those kids how to handle the ball.It was hillarious and kinda sad to see Serbia struggling to pass the midcourt and Usa stealing ball after ball for easy lay ups.

[Fiba basketball]

For me most beautiful basketball is the won where players have high basketball IQ, **** dunks and blocks I want to see great fakes and passes.

For me this is best move I saw in Serbia vs USA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jetP_HWGbJg&list=PLCXERy73Oiz9Y3YHpIJN7F-CR9ZVnGUxg&index=16

but it isn't in the top 5 best moves in the finals instead they put some dunks :facepalm

[Dr.J4ever]

For me most beautiful basketball is the won where players have high basketball IQ, **** dunks and blocks I want to see great fakes and passes.

For me this is best move I saw in Serbia vs USA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jetP_HWGbJg&list=PLCXERy73Oiz9Y3YHpIJN7F-CR9ZVnGUxg&index=16

but it isn't in the top 5 best moves in the finals instead they put some dunks :facepalm

Yup, beautiful move and pass. However, great defense with a powerful block and finishing with a powerful dunk on the other end is beautiful also. If you do a lot of blocking, stealing, pressuring the ball, it makes for winning basketball. And that is the most beautiful of all.

[mugiwara]

OKC play ugly basketball. With harden they played pick n roll with collision, which was nice. Since durant wants t be a trip dub machine and goes for all the defensive boards instead of running the break like he clearly should, they have lost whatever beauty they had. bar dat KD stroke.

[chips93]

i think america has an incredible talent pool, but i think europeans are better coached in general.

if you are a talented 16 year old in europe, you train with grown men, on becoming a well rounded professional

if you are a talented 16 year old in america, you play aau ball, have people fawn all over you, and dont have as much structure in your development as in europe.

[mugiwara]

i think america has an incredible talent pool, but i think europeans are better coached in general.

if you are a talented 16 year old in europe, you train with grown men, on becoming a well rounded professional

if you are a talented 16 year old in america, you play aau ball, have people fawn all over you, and dont have as much structure in your development as in europe.

Agreed, you learn to be the boss of your team. It creates bad team mates and teaches players how to score the hard way, which i find ugly. The best euroleague perimeter players would never be left open in finals, its painfully clear that wade can't hit an open jumpshot because he deems it below him or something. Its as if its not worth concentrating on and subsequent brick soon follows.

[Dr.J4ever]

i think america has an incredible talent pool, but i think europeans are better coached in general.

if you are a talented 16 year old in europe, you train with grown men, on becoming a well rounded professional

if you are a talented 16 year old in america, you play aau ball, have people fawn all over you, and dont have as much structure in your development as in europe.

Maybe early player development is better in europe, in terms of training for the fundamentals, but even their coaching is sometimes way overrated. I don't want to generalize based solely on the international tournaments I've seen, but I remember the Spanish coach playing Marc Gasol with 3 fouls in the 2nd quarter of the Gold Medal game against the US last year in the London Olympics. Of course Gasol promptly gets his 4th foul before the half is over. What the? You take your lumps, and come back in the 2nd half. Simple basketball.

And what is this thing where Euro coaches keep changing their lineups at a whim? Players never know whether they are starting or coming off the bench. Defenders of this practice say it makes it all unpredictable. Yes, I agree, but also to the detriment of their own players.

[Fiba basketball]

Yup, beautiful move and pass. However, great defense with a powerful block and finishing with a powerful dunk on the other end is beautiful also. If you do a lot of blocking, stealing, pressuring the ball, it makes for winning basketball. And that is the most beautiful of all.

My favorite team plays ugly basketball and I fine with it and I would rather have my team playing ugly basketball because team that plays ugly basketball plays good defense and defense wins games. Some dunks and blocks can be great but for me it isn't the same as moves like that and I think it's answer to your question.

[Dr.J4ever]

My favorite team plays ugly basketball and I fine with it and I would rather have my team playing ugly basketball because team that plays ugly basketball plays good defense and defense wins games. Some dunks and blocks can be great but for me it isn't the same as moves like that and I think it's answer to your question.

Who's your favorite team BTW?

[Fiba basketball]

Maybe early player development is better in europe, in terms of training for the fundamentals, but even their coaching is sometimes way overrated. I don't want to generalize based solely on the international tournaments I've seen, but I remember the Spanish coach playing Marc Gasol with 3 fouls in the 2nd quarter of the Gold Medal game against the US last year in the London Olympics. Of course Gasol promptly gets his 4th foul before the half is over. What the? You take your lumps, and come back in the 2nd half. Simple basketball.

And what is this thing where Euro coaches keep changing their lineups at a whim? Players never know whether they are starting or coming off the bench. Defenders of this practice say it makes it all unpredictable. Yes, I agree, but also to the detriment of their own players.

That's Sergio Scariolo one of the worst and most overrated coaches in Europea, I don't think there's anyone who think he's a good coach.

So what if players don't know if they are starting or comming of the bench, only thing that matters is how many minutes they play.

[SpanishACB]

And what is this thing where Euro coaches keep changing their lineups at a whim? Players never know whether they are starting or coming off the bench. Defenders of this practice say it makes it all unpredictable. Yes, I agree, but also to the detriment of their own players.

They start players based on current form, opponent and best suited for whatever plays they intend to use mostly.

USA has a culture of "official" starting fives and shit but that's imposed by the merchandising (just like the franchise player title), it's not for basketball reasons so don't try to make them be so.

[Fiba basketball]

Who's your favorite team BTW?

Partizan, by far the poorest team in EL but our coach Vujesvic ( he coached Divac, Krstic, Pekovic when they were young and is considered one of the best coaches for Cs) is great and he wants his team to play great defense and slow offense.

[Dr.J4ever]

That's Sergio Scariolo one of the worst and most overrated coaches in Europea, I don't think there's anyone who think he's a good coach.

So what if players don't know if they are starting or comming of the bench, only thing that matters is how many minutes they play.

I think at the pro level, you want to know where you fit in and how many minutes you're going to get. Players have egos, especially pros, and if they play one game, and then suddenly not at all another, it demoralizes you. Of course, all coaches reserve the right to bench at anytime, even in the NBA. Generally, though, at the end of a game, the best players are usually on the floor.

In Europe, I get the impression, this is not the case, and coaches go on hunches and whims. I could be wrong.

[Fiba basketball]

I think at the pro level, you want to know where you fit in and how many minutes you're going to get. Players have egos, especially pros, and if they play one game, and then suddenly not at all another, it demoralizes you. Of course, all coaches reserve the right to bench at anytime, even in the NBA. Generally, though, at the end of a game, the best players are usually on the floor.

In Europe, I get the impression, this is not the case, and coaches go on hunches and whims. I could be wrong.

You have a good point but you will always play as much unless you play bad or your substitute has a great games but it's not like that will hapen only couple of games a seasone.

[Dr.J4ever]

Partizan, by far the poorest team in EL but our coach Vujesvic ( he coached Divac, Krstic, Pekovic when they were young and is considered one of the best coaches for Cs) is great and he wants his team to play great defense and slow offense.

Am I being politically correct to say you guys are Yugoslavians? I respect your brand of basketball a lot, just like the Lithuanians. You guys know your bball, but
I really believe you have to adapt more "Americanized" type of ball or at least pick more players who are "defensive specialists" to compete with the Lebrons and Durants of the world.

[branslowski]

They appreciate flopping more than us, thats it.

[SpanishACB]

I think at the pro level, you want to know where you fit in and how many minutes you're going to get. Players have egos, especially pros, and if they play one game, and then suddenly not at all another, it demoralizes you. Of course, all coaches reserve the right to bench at anytime, even in the NBA. Generally, though, at the end of a game, the best players are usually on the floor.

In Europe, I get the impression, this is not the case, and coaches go on hunches and whims. I could be wrong.
this is an issue only because you want it to be.

ego's are not something you mold a league or a team around. You say that if a player isn't performing even if he's top 3 in the team on paper and you bench him in the 4th he's gonna get demoralized? That's a one sided argument, you could also argue that he will understand that he needs to try harder next time. Otherwise stars take minutes for granted, how many times do they fall in auto-complacency? It happens all the time in NBA.

nba molds the league and the teams around its stars, this is merely a merchandising influence that allows them to be as popular as they are (amongst many other things, like being the best basketball league in the world), I don't blame them, but please don't try to justify that benching a player that is not performing is wrong procedure.

take the Lakers for example, if this past couple of years they played Euro ball they would have been much better off than they are. They have top talent in every position that is basically being ignored to the benefit of a player that simply put, is not better than the team as a whole, at least, not anymore.

[Fiba basketball]

Am I being politically correct to say you guys are Yugoslavians? I respect your brand of basketball a lot, just like the Lithuanians. You guys know your bball, but
I really believe you have to adapt more "Americanized" type of ball or at least pick more players who are "defensive specialists" to compete with the Lebrons and Durants of the world.

Serbs but club was founded in Yugosalvia so it's JSD ( Yugoslavian sports society ) Partizan.

I wouldn't call it Americanized type of ball, average age of players in Partizan is around 22 and when they became too good for money they get in Partizan they get sold and some othere talented players get minutes, yes team is defensive oriented but it's not because of defensive specialists ,because this year 2 best and only players that are good enough defensivly to be called specialists played on the same position, it's because of team defense that is product of practice ( they practice 4,5 h a day ).

[SoCalLakersFan1]

I don't think a lot of stars come from overseas, but the Euroleague is producing a lot of NBA level players. Something like 20% of the league is international and I'm sure there are a lot of NBA level players there who stay because they don't want to warm benches.

[Euroleague]

Maybe early player development is better in europe, in terms of training for the fundamentals, but even their coaching is sometimes way overrated. I don't want to generalize based solely on the international tournaments I've seen, but I remember the Spanish coach playing Marc Gasol with 3 fouls in the 2nd quarter of the Gold Medal game against the US last year in the London Olympics. Of course Gasol promptly gets his 4th foul before the half is over. What the? You take your lumps, and come back in the 2nd half. Simple basketball.

And what is this thing where Euro coaches keep changing their lineups at a whim? Players never know whether they are starting or coming off the bench. Defenders of this practice say it makes it all unpredictable. Yes, I agree, but also to the detriment of their own players.

Good god do you EVER stop trolling?

How man damn times have I told you Scariolo is a POS coach and one of the worst in Europe and EVERY DAMN TIME you claim I am trolling and lying.

I told you over and over that Spain had a bad coach and still were close to USA even despite that, and that Milano lost in Euroleague because of the COACH, not Bourousis (as you claim it is all because of Bourousis).

Every damn time you would argue and call me a liar and a troll.

You really are an enormous jerk and colossal troll.

Starting and bench is a strictly American culture thing. It's like everything else in America where everything has to be about putting people into caste systems.

Other sports culture don't give one single damn about that. And if NBA teams had the sense to not care about starters and bench, they would be a lot better than they are.

The starters and bench thing does nothing but make a team WORSE. If you had even a few working brain cells (which you obviously do not) you would be able to grasp that.

[Euroleague]

Partizan, by far the poorest team in EL but our coach Vujesvic ( he coached Divac, Krstic, Pekovic when they were young and is considered one of the best coaches for Cs) is great and he wants his team to play great defense and slow offense.


I call BS on that Fiba. I guarantee Partizan has way more money than Nanterre.

[Euroleague]

I think at the pro level, you want to know where you fit in and how many minutes you're going to get. Players have egos, especially pros, and if they play one game, and then suddenly not at all another, it demoralizes you. Of course, all coaches reserve the right to bench at anytime, even in the NBA. Generally, though, at the end of a game, the best players are usually on the floor.

In Europe, I get the impression, this is not the case, and coaches go on hunches and whims. I could be wrong.

Uh no. In NBA there are 1st option, 2nd option, 3rd option of the team.

Then there are the 4-5 role players of the team. These guys make the other two starters, the 6th man, then a couple of minor role players.

The rest of the roster is full of scrubs that absolutely suck and most of them could not make the rotation of decent Euroleague teams, and in lots of cases not even in average Eurocup teams.

When you get to like the 10-15 guys on NBA rosters, they are absolutely terrible players in like 80% of the NBA teams. guys that would be below average players in mid level Spanish League clubs are all over NBA rosters in bunches.

In Euroleague, or big European national teams, there are AT LEAST 10 equal and legit players. Any of which can start, or even be featured or be the best player in many other clubs.

Very common in a big Euroleague club for example, where the 10th best player on the team is only a little bit worse than the best player on the team, and where the difference between the best player of the team to say the 4-5 best player of the team is a debate.

Like, the 4-5 best player on the team, people will say is the best.........or in case of NBA only fans like you, take a guy like Sonny Weems that was like the 5th best player on CSKA, and you guys will claim he was the "star of CSKA".

NBA teams for the large part are extremely lacking in depth and are very weak past the top 7-8 players, and in many teams past the top 4-5 players.

Good Euroleague teams are strong 1-12.

That's why when idiot NBA only fans come up with this crap about how the best Euroleague teams could not compete with NBA teams, they are talking extreme bullshit.

Because the 10th man on a good Euroleague team is better than the 7-8 man on most NBA teams.

NBA is very watered down and diluted league due to all of the expansion. So they only have 5-6 guys on most NBA teams that are even good enough to start. Where Euroleague teams on average have 10 guys that are good enough to start.

There is no such thing as "starters" outside US basketball culture. As someone else said, it's not about basketball reasons, it's about NBA gimmick marketing and hype machine.

NBA in TRUTH is a watered down league where 2/3 of the players on most teams are terrible. They spin this with "starters" and bench". Sounds better than saying the truth, that coaches can't use players interchangeably like they can in Europe, because NBA teams have no depth on their rosters.

Even below average Euroleague teams are usually 10-11 deep with legit players that can be used interchangeably to most of the guys and roles on the team.

NBA sports culture of "starters" is a marketing gimmick and for money, as someone else pointed out, and NBA teams are very lacking in depth, so they only have 5-6 guys that should be playing big minutes anyway.

That's why Rubio, Jennings and some dozens of other guys can play only 15-20 minutes in Europe, then play 30-40 in NBA.

Because their NBA teams have less depth than their European teams did.

[RRR3]

Chris Duhon is better than Vaseline Spoon Lolis. Get mad Euroshit

[Euroleague]

this is an issue only because you want it to be.

ego's are not something you mold a league or a team around. You say that if a player isn't performing even if he's top 3 in the team on paper and you bench him in the 4th he's gonna get demoralized? That's a one sided argument, you could also argue that he will understand that he needs to try harder next time. Otherwise stars take minutes for granted, how many times do they fall in auto-complacency? It happens all the time in NBA.

nba molds the league and the teams around its stars, this is merely a merchandising influence that allows them to be as popular as they are (amongst many other things, like being the best basketball league in the world), I don't blame them, but please don't try to justify that benching a player that is not performing is wrong procedure.

take the Lakers for example, if this past couple of years they played Euro ball they would have been much better off than they are. They have top talent in every position that is basically being ignored to the benefit of a player that simply put, is not better than the team as a whole, at least, not anymore.

You are talking to the same guy that claims Spanoulis was given "equal and fair chances in the NBA by his coach". This guy is a tool.

[RRR3]

Maybe Spoon Oil Pus will get another chance and average 4 PPG :eek:

[Euroleague]

Serbs but club was founded in Yugosalvia so it's JSD ( Yugoslavian sports society ) Partizan.

I wouldn't call it Americanized type of ball, average age of players in Partizan is around 22 and when they became too good for money they get in Partizan they get sold and some othere talented players get minutes, yes team is defensive oriented but it's not because of defensive specialists ,because this year 2 best and only players that are good enough defensivly to be called specialists played on the same position, it's because of team defense that is product of practice ( they practice 4,5 h a day ).

Serbs need to start playing the modern Greek style basketball. Greeks took the Serbian style, and then they have modified it to what they call "modern basket".

The strange thing to me is that, Serbs are not doing the same thing, even when it was Serbian coaches (ones in the national team on top of it) that were involved in this new basketball style in Greece.

I guess maybe it is because Serbia produces different kinds of players. But I think you guys should start using the modified Yugo style that Greece uses now.

This is the future way of European basketball. I think also if Spain had been using the new Greek modified basketball that they would have won the last two Olympics. But instead they used their NBA/Euro hybrid stuff.

They can play fast or slower, more full court or more half court but they get the same result.

The new modern Yugo modified Greek basketball system is the future to me for Europe and that's how Team USA is going to meet its match, because they won't be able to counter adjust to it.

I still don't get why Ivkovic does not use that style with Serbia, considering he is one of the creators of it.

[KG215]

I think also if Spain had been using the new Greek modified basketball that they would have won the last two Olympics. But instead they used their NBA/Euro hybrid stuff.

:applause:

Congratulations. When I didn't think you could get any more delusional, you go and type your most delusional paragraph ever. Not an easy feat given your posting history.

If only Spain had adopted the Greek style of basketball, the same style that got them eliminated by Nigeria (you know, the team the USA beat by damn near 100 points) from even making the Olympics, they would've won the last two Olympics.

:oldlol:

[RRR3]

Hey KG, off topic, but your pm box is full and in one of the thread s about nick young, ymf said "best sg kobe hsas played with since 99. sad but true."
:roll:

[Euroleague]

:applause:

Congratulations. When I didn't think you could get any more delusional, you go and type your most delusional paragraph ever. Not an easy feat given your posting history.

If only Spain had adopted the Greek style of basketball, the same style that got them eliminated by Nigeria (you know, the team the USA beat by damn near 100 points) from even making the Olympics, they would've won the last two Olympics.

:oldlol:

If Spain was playing in 2012 with the Yugo modified Greek "modern basketball" they would have won the gold medal GUARANTEED.

Just wait about 4-5 years when the rest of Europe finally starts learning this new type of European basketball, which is superior by far to the current style of European basketball and the NBA.

And the refs beat Greece, not Nigeria, as every person that saw the games knows that.

Besides the point that it has NOTHING to do with what is being talked about here, as 2012 Greek national team was NOT using the system I am talking about.

IDIOT

[RRR3]

Euroleague, how come Spoon Loller couldn't even start over Luther Head and Rafer Alston in an "inferior" league?

[gabepizza]

Euroleague is so deep that NBA scrubs and back-ups like Brown, Farmar, Krstic and Fernandez come over and are among the top players in the league. Yeah Euroleague teams are deep, if they were playing in the WNBA maybe.
:biggums:

[Bandito]

And the refs beat Greece, not Nigeria, as every person that saw the games knows that.
[/B]

I give you the benefit of the doubt there, because like every person in the world, nobody watched that crappy ass game. :roll:

[KG215]

Hey KG, off topic, but your pm box is full and in one of the thread s about nick young, ymf said "best sg kobe hsas played with since 99. sad but true."
:roll:
Yeah, I saw that, laughed, and moved on. It wasn't worth the effort. YMF, like Griff, just amuses me more than anything now.

[2swift4u]

that comes from growing up watching soccer.

in soccer, you can't hog the ball no matter how good your dribbling skills are. you'll get swarmed no matter what. the beauty in watching soccer comes from watching teamwork.

so ofc to them, ugly basketball is when the ball doesn't move.

:facepalm :facepalm what are you talking about? the way euros play basketball has absolutely nothing to do with soccer!

[fiddy]

Euroleague=delusional greek fakkit

[Fiba basketball]

I call BS on that Fiba. I guarantee Partizan has way more money than Nanterre.
Partizan is in debt, players only got payed for 3 or 4 months, they owe Milosavljevic 10 salaries but he decided to stay. Players know they won't get payed in Partizan but they will improve and play EL so bigger and richer clubs will see them and sign them.

[Euroleague]

Partizan is in debt, players only got payed for 3 or 4 months, they owe Milosavljevic 10 salaries but he decided to stay. Players know they won't get payed in Partizan but they will improve and play EL so bigger and richer clubs will see them and sign them.

Maybe Nanterre has some really rich owner or sponsor behind it, which could be possible.

People said teams like Panellinios and Maroussi were "poor" and they had billionaire owners.

But I just mean in the sense of budget of the club. I doubt their budget is any bigger than Partizan's.

Look at Nanterre's roster this last season:

http://basketball.eurobasket.com/team/JSF_Nanterre/2347?Year=2012-2013

No way could that be the same as Partizan's budget. I also would say Zielona Gora is very questionable also.

Zielona Gora's roster last year:

http://basketball.eurobasket.com/team/Stelmet_Zielona_Gora/67?Year=2012-2013

It's hard to say for sure, but I doubt that roster was more expensive than Partizan's. And I would be absolutely sure that Partizan's coach gets paid more than the coaches of those 2 clubs do.

[RRR3]

Euroleague=delusional fakkit from Arkansas
fixed.

[Dr.J4ever]

this is an issue only because you want it to be.

ego's are not something you mold a league or a team around. You say that if a player isn't performing even if he's top 3 in the team on paper and you bench him in the 4th he's gonna get demoralized? That's a one sided argument, you could also argue that he will understand that he needs to try harder next time. Otherwise stars take minutes for granted, how many times do they fall in auto-complacency? It happens all the time in NBA.

nba molds the league and the teams around its stars, this is merely a merchandising influence that allows them to be as popular as they are (amongst many other things, like being the best basketball league in the world), I don't blame them, but please don't try to justify that benching a player that is not performing is wrong procedure.

take the Lakers for example, if this past couple of years they played Euro ball they would have been much better off than they are. They have top talent in every position that is basically being ignored to the benefit of a player that simply put, is not better than the team as a whole, at least, not anymore.

You can't be blind to the egos of your players. They are human beings. If, in your place of work, your boss would just promote anyone and demote people who have proven through time that they are the most reliable, would you like working for a boss like that?

Same thing in the NBA. Most American coaches instinctively play their best players at the end game, players who have proven themselves many times in the past, and not just for the particular game. Again, I may be generalizing based on the smaller sample I've see, but it seems to me Euro coaches just put any player at the end game based on "feel" and hunches. Don't they? Some of you have already admitted it in your answers.

Yes, the NBA mostly revolves around it's stars. I believe initially it was a marketing decision because how will you sustain interest if a team is losing? You have to promote stars or individuals if a team is losing. If the team is a winner, then of course, even better, but stars score points and are interesting to fans even if a team will lose. It's a business thing.

However, criticize all you want, but again, the American system of promoting stars and building teams around them is a WINNING system also. Take the 2010 FIBA Worlds---- the US built a team around Kevin Durant and a bunch of good players and defensive players like Andre Iguodala and Odom who outplayed many centers in the Tournament with defense and rebounding. See, at the end game, the US always knew whom to go to: Durant. And no one could stop him. Did Kevin Durant become unstoppable because Coach K basically told him to take as many shots as possible? Of course that had somthing to do with Durant getting really hot. Was it a wise decision for Coach K to say at the beginning of the team's formation---- we will build through Durant and all you other guys work around him? Of course, it was!

The question is--- if a Euro coach was coaching Team USA in 2010, would they have used the same system Coach K employed? Maybe not.

[SpanishACB]

However, criticize all you want, but again, the American system of promoting stars and building teams around them is a WINNING system also.


Not much credit considering:

a) size of USA (number of citizens)
b) number of african descendant interested in basketball (a game basically built around their physical metabolism)
c) money

Coaching has little to do with USA's success in basketball. I don't think they needed a coach to win last tournament. It's not that Team USA's coach doesn't make himself respected, I'm sure he doesn't even attempt to tell these guys how to play, they just get out there and win. So intrinsically, coaching is a lower tier but because they don't need anything else.

If Team USA played, or tried to play for the open man with off the ball screens and all around high IQ basketball they would crush opposition by 100 without sweat. But there aren't coaches (or enough coaches) capable of handling ego's and at the same time play team ball - they would lose the team in a heartbeat once someone like Kobe calls on the GM's door "i don't like this coach guy".

It's what happens when players have more power than managers

[ZenMaster]

You can't be blind to the egos of your players. They are human beings. If, in your place of work, your boss would just promote anyone and demote people who have proven through time that they are the most reliable, would you like working for a boss like that?

Same thing in the NBA. Most American coaches instinctively play their best players at the end game, players who have proven themselves many times in the past, and not just for the particular game. Again, I may be generalizing based on the smaller sample I've see, but it seems to me Euro coaches just put any player at the end game based on "feel" and hunches. Don't they? Some of you have already admitted it in your answers.

Yes, the NBA mostly revolves around it's stars. I believe initially it was a marketing decision because how will you sustain interest if a team is losing? You have to promote stars or individuals if a team is losing. If the team is a winner, then of course, even better, but stars score points and are interesting to fans even if a team will lose. It's a business thing.

However, criticize all you want, but again, the American system of promoting stars and building teams around them is a WINNING system also. Take the 2010 FIBA Worlds---- the US built a team around Kevin Durant and a bunch of good players and defensive players like Andre Iguodala and Odom who outplayed many centers in the Tournament with defense and rebounding. See, at the end game, the US always knew whom to go to: Durant. And no one could stop him. Did Kevin Durant become unstoppable because Coach K basically told him to take as many shots as possible? Of course that had somthing to do with Durant getting really hot. Was it a wise decision for Coach K to say at the beginning of the team's formation---- we will build through Durant and all you other guys work around him? Of course, it was!

The question is--- if a Euro coach was coaching Team USA in 2010, would they have used the same system Coach K employed? Maybe not.

So American coaches go by instinct and is right, but Europeans go by "hunch and feel" and are wrong? Makes no sense. You are also greatly exaggerating on how Euro coaches play players randomly at end of games.

I just don't see how instinct is different from hunch and feel.

[Shade8780]

Nope. US Basketball >> Euro Basketball.

[Djetic]

Not much credit considering:

a) size of USA (number of citizens)
b) number of african descendant interested in basketball (a game basically built around their physical metabolism)
c) money

Coaching has little to do with USA's success in basketball. I don't think they needed a coach to win last tournament. It's not that Team USA's coach doesn't make himself respected, I'm sure he doesn't even attempt to tell these guys how to play, they just get out there and win. So intrinsically, coaching is a lower tier but because they don't need anything else.

If Team USA played, or tried to play for the open man with off the ball screens and all around high IQ basketball they would crush opposition by 100 without sweat. But there aren't coaches (or enough coaches) capable of handling ego's and at the same time play team ball - they would lose the team in a heartbeat once someone like Kobe calls on the GM's door "i don't like this coach guy".

It's what happens when players have more power than managers
i bolded things which represent the essence of whole thing being discussed around.Coaches in NBA excluding several HOF coaches are not that good as players which carry them and their team.While in NBA superstars are the one which make the calls and act on their own in Europe coaches does that and they have last word on things which matter.

About managing egos,Euro stars also have their egos and coaches handle them just fine but yet not a single euro coach came overseas and landed HC job.I just imagine if any decent NBA team offered job to coach Obradovic Memphis defense would look like Bobcats comparing to team he coaches.I've seen guy turning slow,unathletic defensive blackholes into decent players so you can imagine what he could do with players which got solid defensive potenital and athleticism.

TL DR In Europe,coaches are superstars while in NBA players are branded as such.Also too many mediocre coaches leading big franchises in NBA.

[SpanishACB]

You are also greatly exaggerating on how Euro coaches play players randomly at end of games.



Let me elaborate: it's very naive to think it's random. Like the clearly insightful poster above has explained, coaches make the calls, and in the 4th quarter it means players know which play to play for each possesion which greatly affects which 5 players are on the field (you don't need centers for some plays, per example), but this but a mere variable, there's infinitely more that affect the coach's decision on who to field for the deciding moments, streak of a player, personality, form, stamina left... they even have algorithms for this stuff, things you wouldn't even be able to read with a maths degree.

I don't want to repeat myself but this is all marketing, it's NBA'S big loss for being such a fun entertainment for everyone in the world. It's a totally alien concept of supporting for people in Europe, that support their grass roots, their cities (glory hunters are everywhere, mind) yet here people follow their own personal super hero, which allows the NBA to market in a different yet very powerful way. But super heroes need to be protected, and many times, crafted, and the secondary effects of this is players, as individuals, having too much power (in comparison to other team sports), and this is what makes it so hard to coaches to impose themselves.

Now if only all super stars were like Duncan we'd see so many more Popovichs.

[Dr.J4ever]

Not much credit considering:

a) size of USA (number of citizens)
b) number of african descendant interested in basketball (a game basically built around their physical metabolism)
c) money

Coaching has little to do with USA's success in basketball. I don't think they needed a coach to win last tournament. It's not that Team USA's coach doesn't make himself respected, I'm sure he doesn't even attempt to tell these guys how to play, they just get out there and win. So intrinsically, coaching is a lower tier but because they don't need anything else.

If Team USA played, or tried to play for the open man with off the ball screens and all around high IQ basketball they would crush opposition by 100 without sweat. But there aren't coaches (or enough coaches) capable of handling ego's and at the same time play team ball - they would lose the team in a heartbeat once someone like Kobe calls on the GM's door "i don't like this coach guy".

It's what happens when players have more power than managers

First of all, with regards to your racial angle on things. We all know African Americans tend to do better than other Americans in basketball, but it's not purely because of African descent. Many African countries participate in world basketball, but aren't very good. It is rare that a good African team will beat an all-white European team, despite Nigeria in the Olympic Qualifiers. So it's really the "American" experience that makes USA basketball, and not race. Sorry.

Yes, the US has a larger population, but the US has the deepest pool of talent also for basketball. BTW, Russia also has a large population, and Europe combined may have a larger population than the US(I didn't check on that). It doesn't remove the fact that most of the best players in the world come from the US.

You are also underestimating American coaches. Let me tell you that before the 2010 FIBA Worlds, Kevin Durant was considered a 2nd tier superstar in the NBA. He was not at the level of Lebron and Kobe yet. This is why he was on the so-called B team. He had a good Playoff against the Lakers, but LA won the Series, and Durant and Westbrook were considered rising stars only.

This is why some Americans thought we would lose in 2010 in the Worlds. It was a 50-50 situation, in terms of winning the Gold. In fact, many Euros also believed that the US would not win. But they won, right? So do you just shrug it off, and say," well, the players were so good they would have won anyway without coaching.". That doesn't make sense. It's either you thought they lacked the talent to win before the tournament or not.

If you thought the 2010 FIBA US team was deficient to start the tournament, then Coach K must have performed a very good job. As I said, even if Durant was not a superstar yet in the NBA, Coach K knew that he would build the team around KD. Again, I ask, if a Euro were coaching that US team, would he have built around Durant?

[Sharmer]

euro ball is good before bedtime, it helps me get to sleep.

[ZenMaster]

First of all, with regards to your racial angle on things. We all know African Americans tend to do better than other Americans in basketball, but it's not purely because of African descent. Many African countries participate in world basketball, but aren't very good. It is rare that a good African team will beat an all-white European team, despite Nigeria in the Olympic Qualifiers. So it's really the "American" experience that makes USA basketball, and not race. Sorry.

If it's the American experience that makes USA basketball, then why isn't the NBA 60%+ white Americans?

What you're saying just isn't true and your rationale is off, do you know how far back basketball has been in Africa from an orginazitional pov? The quality of anything from coaches to courts has been poor. A lot of stuff has been done and will be done to make it better.

[Dr.J4ever]

If it's the American experience that makes USA basketball, then why isn't the NBA 60%+ white Americans?

What you're saying just isn't true and your rationale is off, do you know how far back basketball has been in Africa from an orginazitional pov? The quality of anything from coaches to courts has been poor. A lot of stuff has been done and will be done to make it better.

I said it's not PURELY African descent. It is also the ENTIRE breadth of the American experience. Basketball is an American game practiced by kids in small rural areas in Indiana, perfected in the streets of New York and Philly. African Americans have been with us for a few hundred years, so I don't know why they tend to do better in basketball, but it's frankly irrelevant.

I have no doubt that African basketball will improve with better coaching and equipment and courts. I only meant to say that if it was PURELY race that determined good basketball, then Africa would dominate world basketball.
Since you mentioned courts, organization, and coaching as factors, then you seem to agree with me that it is not PURELY race. I would add nutrition as a factor too and possibly others.

That was my only point. As I said, to me, race is irrelevant in this discussion.

[SpanishACB]

:banghead:

I'm dropping from the debate. It's as if you picked out of context phrases from my post and went a totally different way to nit pick on irrelevant things based on pedantry. You're seriously bringing Africa to the equation, as a continent, because I mentioned black metabolism? Really though, when they have enough money for nets maybe they can at least play it half as much as you guys.

Sure, it's not all about African heritage, but it's a main factor. USA doesn't beat Spain without their massive population handicap and without their African heritage, regardless of the fact they have the best training facilities for basketball and every kid plays it. It would be naive to think otherwise.

If USA had a smaller talent pool they would need to rely on coaching much more than they do now, which is very low compared to other basketball countries (with much smaller talent pools).

[monkeypox]

They watch basketball with their pinkies up.

[Jon_Koncak]

Sure, it's not all about African heritage, but it's a main factor. USA doesn't beat Spain without their massive population handicap and without their African heritage, regardless of the fact they have the best training facilities for basketball and every kid plays it. It would be naive to think otherwise.



And Spain doesnt beat Macedonia without their massive population handicap either.Perhaps next time Usa should send only white players so it'll be a fair fight according to your racist logic.Just tell us about mixed players like Jason Kidd.Should the be eligible to play or would they give USA an unfair advantage?

[duskovujosevic]

let USA play like Europe. Every single one of 50 states should have its national team.

[Bucket_Nakedz]

gotta go racists on dis one. but i can't fathom watching a bball team that aren't predominately black. fukk fundamentals and iq, i want nigguhz to dunk!

[unknowns8]

Now if only all super stars were like Duncan we'd see so many more Popovichs.

:applause: well put mate, can u imagine the quality of b'ball being played too, fundamental central maaaannn :pimp:

[alenleomessi]

i find european basketball boring due to lack of athleticism

[FireMcFailPlease]

Euroleague=delusional greek fakkit
From Arkansas

[ProfessorMurder]

Euros shoot too many 3's. A lot of screen-and-rolling, pick-and-popping. Basically, they play like the old white guy at the gym.

The NBA is all 3s, PnR and PnPopping too...

[chosen_one6]

The black people here in the US are more naturally athletic because the Europeans brought over the biggest and strongest Africans for slavery. They left all the weak skinny ones because they thought they were no good.

[Euroleague]

You can't be blind to the egos of your players. They are human beings. If, in your place of work, your boss would just promote anyone and demote people who have proven through time that they are the most reliable, would you like working for a boss like that?

Same thing in the NBA. Most American coaches instinctively play their best players at the end game, players who have proven themselves many times in the past, and not just for the particular game. Again, I may be generalizing based on the smaller sample I've see, but it seems to me Euro coaches just put any player at the end game based on "feel" and hunches. Don't they? Some of you have already admitted it in your answers.

Yes, the NBA mostly revolves around it's stars. I believe initially it was a marketing decision because how will you sustain interest if a team is losing? You have to promote stars or individuals if a team is losing. If the team is a winner, then of course, even better, but stars score points and are interesting to fans even if a team will lose. It's a business thing.

However, criticize all you want, but again, the American system of promoting stars and building teams around them is a WINNING system also. Take the 2010 FIBA Worlds---- the US built a team around Kevin Durant and a bunch of good players and defensive players like Andre Iguodala and Odom who outplayed many centers in the Tournament with defense and rebounding. See, at the end game, the US always knew whom to go to: Durant. And no one could stop him. Did Kevin Durant become unstoppable because Coach K basically told him to take as many shots as possible? Of course that had somthing to do with Durant getting really hot. Was it a wise decision for Coach K to say at the beginning of the team's formation---- we will build through Durant and all you other guys work around him? Of course, it was!

The question is--- if a Euro coach was coaching Team USA in 2010, would they have used the same system Coach K employed? Maybe not.

You are a ****ing moron and a true fascist. Congrats.

[Euroleague]

First of all, with regards to your racial angle on things. We all know African Americans tend to do better than other Americans in basketball, but it's not purely because of African descent. Many African countries participate in world basketball, but aren't very good. It is rare that a good African team will beat an all-white European team, despite Nigeria in the Olympic Qualifiers. So it's really the "American" experience that makes USA basketball, and not race. Sorry.

Yes, the US has a larger population, but the US has the deepest pool of talent also for basketball. BTW, Russia also has a large population, and Europe combined may have a larger population than the US(I didn't check on that). It doesn't remove the fact that most of the best players in the world come from the US.

You are also underestimating American coaches. Let me tell you that before the 2010 FIBA Worlds, Kevin Durant was considered a 2nd tier superstar in the NBA. He was not at the level of Lebron and Kobe yet. This is why he was on the so-called B team. He had a good Playoff against the Lakers, but LA won the Series, and Durant and Westbrook were considered rising stars only.

This is why some Americans thought we would lose in 2010 in the Worlds. It was a 50-50 situation, in terms of winning the Gold. In fact, many Euros also believed that the US would not win. But they won, right? So do you just shrug it off, and say," well, the players were so good they would have won anyway without coaching.". That doesn't make sense. It's either you thought they lacked the talent to win before the tournament or not.

If you thought the 2010 FIBA US team was deficient to start the tournament, then Coach K must have performed a very good job. As I said, even if Durant was not a superstar yet in the NBA, Coach K knew that he would build the team around KD. Again, I ask, if a Euro were coaching that US team, would he have built around Durant?

Let's see here.............most dangerous teams at 2010 tournament,

Argentina (even without Manu)

Greece (even with the brawl and suspensions and the locker room falling apart)

Spain (even without Gasol)

Serbia

Number of those 4 teams USA played in knockout games = ZERO

Normally, to win such a tournament you have to beat AT LEAST 2 of the best teams, or usually you have to beat 3 of the best teams. USA beat ZERO of the best teams in the knockout round in that tournament.

If they played that tournament 10 times, USA probably wins it at most twice. It was the luckiest win in the history of that tournament, and USA also got a big push from the refs in the knockout games against Russia and Lithuania.

Considering how they played against Russia and Lithuania, any one of the 4 above teams, would have beaten them in a knockout round. USA was about the 5th to 6th best team in that tournament (you could also argue Brazil was better).

You are a VERY STUPID person and you are a true zealot. Because you can't analyze anything, you can't use any critical thinking skills, you have no logic, you have no deductive reasoning, and you only accept black and white thinking that fits your own narrow minded world paradigm, which is dominated by extreme nationalist propaganda.

USA got super lucky with how the brackets unfolded, dodged all the best teams, and got help from the refs in the 2 games they struggled in during the elimination rounds.

All you can take from that is, "oh look, our B team dominated the world". And of course like the true moron you are, you don't even know what a "B team" even is.

[Euroleague]

I said it's not PURELY African descent. It is also the ENTIRE breadth of the American experience. Basketball is an American game practiced by kids in small rural areas in Indiana, perfected in the streets of New York and Philly. African Americans have been with us for a few hundred years, so I don't know why they tend to do better in basketball, but it's frankly irrelevant.

I have no doubt that African basketball will improve with better coaching and equipment and courts. I only meant to say that if it was PURELY race that determined good basketball, then Africa would dominate world basketball.
Since you mentioned courts, organization, and coaching as factors, then you seem to agree with me that it is not PURELY race. I would add nutrition as a factor too and possibly others.

That was my only point. As I said, to me, race is irrelevant in this discussion.


"Nutrition" as in performance enhancing drugs. Nutrition in USA is much worse than it is in Europe, and it sure the hell is way worse in the black American players coming from the ghetto (where many NBA players came from).

You have "nutrition" confused with performance enhancing drugs, which USA NBA players of all races have an ample supply to from the time they are in junior high.

[Euroleague]

I'm dropping from the debate. It's as if you picked out of context phrases from my post and went a totally different way to nit pick on irrelevant things based on pedantry. You're seriously bringing Africa to the equation, as a continent, because I mentioned black metabolism? Really though, when they have enough money for nets maybe they can at least play it half as much as you guys.

Sure, it's not all about African heritage, but it's a main factor. USA doesn't beat Spain without their massive population handicap and without their African heritage, regardless of the fact they have the best training facilities for basketball and every kid plays it. It would be naive to think otherwise.

If USA had a smaller talent pool they would need to rely on coaching much more than they do now, which is very low compared to other basketball countries (with much smaller talent pools).

This guy and that friend of his gabepizza, who I am sure will drop in the thread soon enough, are clear as day racists and fascist nationalists.

I also know what else they are (which would explain all of their evil tendencies), but won't mention it here. These guys are evil and they are nuts. They are pushing a clear racist agenda here. Just ignore them.

[Euroleague]

And Spain doesnt beat Macedonia without their massive population handicap either.Perhaps next time Usa should send only white players so it'll be a fair fight according to your racist logic.Just tell us about mixed players like Jason Kidd.Should the be eligible to play or would they give USA an unfair advantage?

NBA is an extremely racist organization and that is a fact. Posters like DrJ4ever are also pushing a super racist agenda.

If you can't see that, then I am greatly disappointed in you.

Yes, it's racist to claim that black genetics makes better basketball players. However, it's also RACIST as hell for the NBA to push a black league in a nation that blacks are a minority.

And if you cannot see how racist the NBA, it's media, and its fan base is towards white and Asian players, then something is very wrong with you.

And if you can't see how a bunch of rich white European descent owners and league officers in the NBA pushing a black league is a racist agenda, then you are beyond hope.

[Euroleague]

i find european basketball boring due to lack of athleticism

See THIS statement is RACIST as hell. But this kind of RACIST as **** statements is considered as a "fact" in USA.

[Euroleague]

The black people here in the US are more naturally athletic because the Europeans brought over the biggest and strongest Africans for slavery. They left all the weak skinny ones because they thought they were no good.

So how come Africa is loaded with big strong black guys? How come USA is teaming with small skinny puny black guys with zero athletic ability, or black guys that are fat and slow as hell?

You are a moron.

[SpanishACB]

It's true nutrition is a tier below but it all amounts to the same thing:

they don't need anything else. And the fact that some performance enhancing "aliments" are allowed in the states and not elsewhere also helps allowing NBA players to not follow any sort of professional athlete nutrition program.

In top european team sports having fried chicken is a one-time a week thing if even that.

And it really doesn't matter whose fault it is that there's so many Afircan-americans in the states, I only made an objective comment and you're bringing in faults and such as if it had to be something negative, it's not, America should be proud of its heritage and it just so happens that it suits them for a particular team sport. Nothing negative in saying it, nothing racist about it either.

[Euroleague]

It's true nutrition is a tier below but it all amounts to the same thing:

they don't need anything else. And the fact that some performance enhancing "aliments" are allowed in the states and not elsewhere also helps allowing NBA players to not follow any sort of professional athlete nutrition program.

In top european team sports having fried chicken is a one-time a week thing if even that.

And it really doesn't matter whose fault it is that there's so many Afircan-americans in the states, I only made an objective comment and you're bringing in faults and such as if it had to be something negative, it's not, America should be proud of its heritage and it just so happens that it suits them for a particular team sport. Nothing negative in saying it, nothing racist about it either.

Yes, exactly. NBA players are loaded up on performance enhancing drugs and are from the time they are kids. This is the "more athletic and better nutrition" BULLSHIT some of these idiots keep talking about. And yes, it is true that European teams have way better nutrition standards. Actual nutrition, not "nutrition".

However, it IS racist to imply that black metabolism makes a person more athletic. That's a generalized statement and is factually untrue.

Every race has super athletes, every race has people that are fat and slow. Black metabolism has nothing to do with it.

[CavaliersFTW]

See THIS statement is RACIST as hell. But this kind of RACIST as **** statements is considered as a "fact" in USA.
Holy crap man calm down - especially since he's right, European basketball is less athletic than American basketball. If less athletic basketall is less entertaining to him than that's his opinion you can't change it by shouting at him.

[Rooster]

Let's see here.............most dangerous teams at 2010 tournament,

Argentina (even without Manu)

Greece (even with the brawl and suspensions and the locker room falling apart)

Spain (even without Gasol)

Serbia

Number of those 4 teams USA played in knockout games = ZERO

Normally, to win such a tournament you have to beat AT LEAST 2 of the best teams, or usually you have to beat 3 of the best teams. USA beat ZERO of the best teams in the knockout round in that tournament.

If they played that tournament 10 times, USA probably wins it at most twice. It was the luckiest win in the history of that tournament, and USA also got a big push from the refs in the knockout games against Russia and Lithuania.

Considering how they played against Russia and Lithuania, any one of the 4 above teams, would have beaten them in a knockout round. USA was about the 5th to 6th best team in that tournament (you could also argue Brazil was better).

You are a VERY STUPID person and you are a true zealot. Because you can't analyze anything, you can't use any critical thinking skills, you have no logic, you have no deductive reasoning, and you only accept black and white thinking that fits your own narrow minded world paradigm, which is dominated by extreme nationalist propaganda.

USA got super lucky with how the brackets unfolded, dodged all the best teams, and got help from the refs in the 2 games they struggled in during the elimination rounds.

All you can take from that is, "oh look, our B team dominated the world". And of course like the true moron you are, you don't even know what a "B team" even is.


We have been dominating the world in basketball.:bowdown:

Our worst Olympic basketball was bronze.

Something GREECE has never done in Olympic basketball.

ZERO Olympic medal basketball.

Can't even beat Nigeria.

That's the scrub Americans collection.

[Rooster]

let USA play like Europe. Every single one of 50 states should have its national team.

There are more talent in Los Angeles area alone

More than the whole Euroleague

I can't imagine Farmar as the highest paid player

And Top 15 in that minor league.

He's not even top 15 player in Los Angeles area.

[gabepizza]

Let's see here.............most dangerous teams at 2010 tournament,

Argentina (even without Manu)

Greece (even with the brawl and suspensions and the locker room falling apart)

Spain (even without Gasol)

Serbia

Number of those 4 teams USA played in knockout games = ZERO

Normally, to win such a tournament you have to beat AT LEAST 2 of the best teams, or usually you have to beat 3 of the best teams. USA beat ZERO of the best teams in the knockout round in that tournament.

If they played that tournament 10 times, USA probably wins it at most twice. It was the luckiest win in the history of that tournament, and USA also got a big push from the refs in the knockout games against Russia and Lithuania.

Considering how they played against Russia and Lithuania, any one of the 4 above teams, would have beaten them in a knockout round. USA was about the 5th to 6th best team in that tournament (you could also argue Brazil was better).

You are a VERY STUPID person and you are a true zealot. Because you can't analyze anything, you can't use any critical thinking skills, you have no logic, you have no deductive reasoning, and you only accept black and white thinking that fits your own narrow minded world paradigm, which is dominated by extreme nationalist propaganda.

USA got super lucky with how the brackets unfolded, dodged all the best teams, and got help from the refs in the 2 games they struggled in during the elimination rounds.

All you can take from that is, "oh look, our B team dominated the world". And of course like the true moron you are, you don't even know what a "B team" even is.

:lol :roll: :roll:

Call it luck or whatever you want to truth is the US again won gold in a competition while weak Greece finished 11th. Well at least it wasn't like 2012 where USA won gold again and Greece was eliminated by Nigeria.

:rockon: :rockon:

USA has won three straight gold medals in a row while Greece and Spanoulis have become a laughing stock in international play.

[Rooster]

NBA is an extremely racist organization and that is a fact. Posters like DrJ4ever are also pushing a super racist agenda.

If you can't see that, then I am greatly disappointed in you.

Yes, it's racist to claim that black genetics makes better basketball players. However, it's also RACIST as hell for the NBA to push a black league in a nation that blacks are a minority.

And if you cannot see how racist the NBA, it's media, and its fan base is towards white and Asian players, then something is very wrong with you.

And if you can't see how a bunch of rich white European descent owners and league officers in the NBA pushing a black league is a racist agenda, then you are beyond hope.

Best players play in the NBA

And others who could not cut it will play in minor leagues.

Majority of Best players happen to be blacks

Greece does not have a single great player in NBA

Their best prospect is transplanted from Nigeria.

You guys don't have the genetics:oldlol:

Neither you guys have the likes of Bird, Logo, Nash or Dirk.:oldlol:

Greeks should just stay in the minor league.:applause: :oldlol:

[TheGreatDeraj]

Serbs need to start playing the modern Greek style basketball. Greeks took the Serbian style, and then they have modified it to what they call "modern basket".

The strange thing to me is that, Serbs are not doing the same thing, even when it was Serbian coaches (ones in the national team on top of it) that were involved in this new basketball style in Greece.

I guess maybe it is because Serbia produces different kinds of players. But I think you guys should start using the modified Yugo style that Greece uses now.

This is the future way of European basketball. I think also if Spain had been using the new Greek modified basketball that they would have won the last two Olympics. But instead they used their NBA/Euro hybrid stuff.

They can play fast or slower, more full court or more half court but they get the same result.

The new modern Yugo modified Greek basketball system is the future to me for Europe and that's how Team USA is going to meet its match, because they won't be able to counter adjust to it.

I still don't get why Ivkovic does not use that style with Serbia, considering he is one of the creators of it.

I am unfamiliar with Fiba/Euroleague basketball outside of watching the Olympics. Could you please describe what the following are and how they are similar/different:

Serbian style

Greek Modern Basketball

NBA/Euro hybrid

Nba Style

any other style you feel is important

Thanks!

I would appreciate anyone else's input as well, thanks

[Psileas]

Best players play in the NBA

And others who could not cut it will play in minor leagues.

Majority of Best players happen to be blacks

Greece does not have a single great player in NBA

Their best prospect is transplanted from Nigeria.

You guys don't have the genetics:oldlol:

Neither you guys have the likes of Bird, Logo, Nash or Dirk.:oldlol:

Greeks should just stay in the minor league.:applause: :oldlol:

First of all, it's not necessarily the "best prospect" of Greece. He's the most hyped and well-known in the US, but he's not the only one to watch. For example, Papapetrou is roughly at the same age and in the current European U-20 Championship stands out more.
Second, it's pretty ironic you mention Nigeria and genetics, since neither does America have any genetics to showcase either. Practically every single basketball great has either African or European roots, with the only exception being Scottie Pippen, who has likely original American roots.

[Sakkreth]

Best players play in the NBA

And others who could not cut it will play in minor leagues.

Majority of Best players happen to be blacks

Greece does not have a single great player in NBA

Their best prospect is transplanted from Nigeria.

You guys don't have the genetics:oldlol:

Neither you guys have the likes of Bird, Logo, Nash or Dirk.:oldlol:

Greeks should just stay in the minor league.:applause: :oldlol:

So many redskins in nba!

[Sakkreth]

I am unfamiliar with Fiba/Euroleague basketball outside of watching the Olympics. Could you please describe what the following are and how they are similar/different:

Serbian style

Greek Modern Basketball

NBA/Euro hybrid

Nba Style

any other style you feel is important

Thanks!

I would appreciate anyone else's input as well, thanks

That one is made up.

[JellyBean]

Euro basketball is much more prettier in my opinion due team play. They move the ball better.

American basketball, which I love, emphasize more on pressure and getting the job done regardless how it looks. We are more athletic and I think running a true fast break without the ball even hitting the floor is a thing of beauty while others may not.

I could not agree more. The European basketbll is pretty to watch because it is geared towards team play. Where as our NBA game is geared more to showcase individual talent. Plus American basketball players are faster and more athletic. But to answer the question, I do think that we appreciate the game differently than the Europeans. I mean we love team play (the 80s Lakers, Sixers, Boston Celtics, Utah Jazz, as well as the 2004 Detroit Pistons) come to mind. But we also love the individual side as well. So we (Americans) welcome the team concept as well as the individual showcasing their skill set on the court.

[chosen_one6]

So how come Africa is loaded with big strong black guys? How come USA is teaming with small skinny puny black guys with zero athletic ability, or black guys that are fat and slow as hell?

You are a moron.

The f*** are you saying? This doesn't even make sense. :facepalm

[Rooster]

So many redskins in nba!

You just dunno.:no:

They did not call Robert Parish

The Chief for nothing.:oldlol:

[Euroleague]

That one is made up.

No it is not. It's the style of basketball that is currently played by Olympiacos and Panathinaikos. Ivkovic and Bartzokas used in Olympiacos. Obradovic and Pedoulakis use it in Panathinaikos.

Other Greek coaches that use it, Sfairopoulos in Panionios, Angelou in Aris, Koufos last year in Rethymno.

Also, Greek coach Itoudis would use it probably in Banvit.

Greek coaches like Katsikaris, Giannakis, Zouros don't use it.

Greek national team has never used it before. Greece's new head coach Trinchieri has not used it, however his coaching style is a bit more similar to it than the previous Greek national team coaches.

Ivkovic may be coaching Serbia's national team, but he does not use that system when he coaches them. But he used it when he was coaching Olympiacos.

[Rooster]

First of all, it's not necessarily the "best prospect" of Greece. He's the most hyped and well-known in the US, but he's not the only one to watch. For example, Papapetrou is roughly at the same age and in the current European U-20 Championship stands out more.
Second, it's pretty ironic you mention Nigeria and genetics, since neither does America have any genetics to showcase either. Practically every single basketball great has either African or European roots, with the only exception being Scottie Pippen, who has likely original American roots.


Wilt may have a Native American roots.

He killed a lion with his bare hands.

[Euroleague]

Their best prospect is transplanted from Nigeria.



Antetokounmpo the "best prospect" is 4th on the Greek Under 20 team in scoring.

http://u20men.fibaeurope.com/en/cid_FW2Ym8GSJEAe2vpbWdQMR0.pageID_sniZ4BmSGQQLlPeL-EMh33.compID_UIfgjyQcGqk-fPlnl66Tj0.season_2013.roundID_9352.teamID_291.htm l

And that's with 3 of Greece's best players in his age group missing the tournament due to injury.

And it's funny how he was "transplanted from Nigeria", considering he was born and raised in Greece, and never even left Greek soil until he was age 18.

In fact, he's never been to Nigeria once in his entire life. How the hell can you be "transplanted" from a country you have never even been to?

[gabepizza]

Antetokounmpo the "biggest talent" is 4th on the Greek Under 20 team in scoring.

http://u20men.fibaeurope.com/en/cid_FW2Ym8GSJEAe2vpbWdQMR0.pageID_sniZ4BmSGQQLlPeL-EMh33.compID_UIfgjyQcGqk-fPlnl66Tj0.season_2013.roundID_9352.teamID_291.htm l

And that's with 3 of Greece's best players in his age group missing the tournament due to injury.

So do you think Greece might be able to beat Nigeria next time. Only if they don't have that scrub Spanoulis and that slow, stiff Bourousis.

[Euroleague]

So do you think Greece might be able to beat Nigeria next time. Only if they don't have that scrub Spanoulis and that slow, stiff Bourousis.

I think you won't ever reach an IQ level above 70.

[gabepizza]

I think you won't ever reach an IQ level above 70.


Ball don't lie

[RRR3]

Hey Gabepizza, do you think Antetokounmpo will be the first Greek player in NBA history to have a career average of more than 3.9 PPG?

So far Antonis Fotsis holds the "record"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/birthplaces.cgi?country=GR&state=

[Euroleague]

Hey Gabepizza, do you think Antetokounmpo will be the first Greek player in NBA history to have a career average of more than 3.9 PPG?

So far Antonis Fotsis holds the "record"
http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/birthplaces.cgi?country=GR&state=

Koufos averaged more than that you ****ing moron.

[Andrew Wiggins]

koufos is as much of a greek basketball product as chris kaman is german

[Euroleague]

koufos is as much of a greek basketball product as chris kaman is german

First, that's 100% wrong.

Second, he said nothing about "basketball product". He said "Greek". Koufos is as Greek as it gets.

He's more Greek than the majority of people in Greece.

Kaman is a naturalized German, that had something like a grandfather from Germany or something. He only played on the team with Dirk also. He does not have German family, parents, does not speak German.

Kaman is American.

Koufos is Greek American, and he's as Greek as it gets. Nothing remotely similar to compare there. Koufos also has basketball ties to Greece, unlike Kaman having any to Germany.

You could have compared someone like Hakeem playing for USA, or Ewing, or something like that. The comparison you made makes absolutely no sense at all.

Kaman is like pretty much Bo McCalebb, just playing for a foreign country for money, or whatever. Koufos situation is nothing even remotely similar to that.

That being said, Koufos can't play a lick of defense and he's not committed to the team. He should probably be kicked off Greece's team already.

[Euroleague]

I looked up Seikaly's NBA numbers. He also averaged way more than 3.9 in NBA. So yeah, you are full of shit.

[Dr.J4ever]

Not much credit considering:

a) size of USA (number of citizens)
b) number of african descendant interested in basketball (a game basically built around their physical metabolism)
c) money

Coaching has little to do with USA's success in basketball. I don't think they needed a coach to win last tournament. It's not that Team USA's coach doesn't make himself respected, I'm sure he doesn't even attempt to tell these guys how to play, they just get out there and win. So intrinsically, coaching is a lower tier but because they don't need anything else.

If Team USA played, or tried to play for the open man with off the ball screens and all around high IQ basketball they would crush opposition by 100 without sweat. But there aren't coaches (or enough coaches) capable of handling ego's and at the same time play team ball - they would lose the team in a heartbeat once someone like Kobe calls on the GM's door "i don't like this coach guy".

It's what happens when players have more power than managers

For the record, it wasn't me that first brought up the "African" angle on things. To me, it's not even relevant in this thread at all. What does heritage have to do with appreciating basketball from a Euro or American perspective?
No relevance whatsoever. So I think everyone should shut up about the race factor as the right attitude is whoever is a native to your country of origin should be able to play for your NT..Okay, over.

BTW, Euroleague, I thought you put me on perma ignore since way back? Can't resist it, huh?

[Andrew Wiggins]

First, that's 100% wrong.

Second, he said nothing about "basketball product". He said "Greek". Koufos is as Greek as it gets.

He's more Greek than the majority of people in Greece.

Kaman is a naturalized German, that had something like a grandfather from Germany or something. He only played on the team with Dirk also. He does not have German family, parents, does not speak German.

Kaman is American.

Koufos is Greek American, and he's as Greek as it gets. Nothing remotely similar to compare there. Koufos also has basketball ties to Greece, unlike Kaman having any to Germany.

You could have compared someone like Hakeem playing for USA, or Ewing, or something like that. The comparison you made makes absolutely no sense at all.

Kaman is like pretty much Bo McCalebb, just playing for a foreign country for money, or whatever. Koufos situation is nothing even remotely similar to that.

That being said, Koufos can't play a lick of defense and he's not committed to the team. He should probably be kicked off Greece's team already.

i don't care what he said, i'm talking about basketball products of a country and koufos isn't a product of greek basketball and kaman isn't a product of german basketball

watch your tone boy

koufos won't be kicked off. they asked him to play eurobasket this year and he declined so he could focus on getting ready for the nba season.

[Euroleague]

i don't care what he said, i'm talking about basketball products of a country and koufos isn't a product of greek basketball and kaman isn't a product of german basketball

watch your tone boy

koufos won't be kicked off. they asked him to play eurobasket this year and he declined so he could focus on getting ready for the nba season.

Koufos played in Greek junior national teams as a kid. He also trained in Greece during the summers when he was in high school. So no, it's not the same thing really.

Anyway, he might very well get kicked off the team. The President of the Greek basketball federation is extremely sick and tired of all the Greek players taking summers off every year and refusing to play for the national team.

Greece has more absences every summer than USA does, for years now.

So the president is trying to stop this, and he made a new rule that if players refuse to play for simple reasons like, "NBA does want me to", or "I want to take vacation instead", or "because I want to spend time with my wife or girlfriend", all the typical responses he gets for their absences.......

That their will be strict punishment for this. He also made a new rule that anyone invited to the team that said he would play initially, then does not show up (something else that a lot of Greek players have been doing recently), that this guy will be kicked off the team.

Nick Calathes got invited to play this summer, then said he would not show up at camp after the fact. First he said it was because his wife was having a baby so he coudl not play. Even though the baby came like 2 months ago.

Then he changed his story to he is working out with NBA teams the whole time so he can't come to camp, because he working out and will get an NBA contract. Even though he worked out one week in Dallas weeks ago, then they signed Melek instead.

Then his next excuse was that he just did not have time to fly from USA to Greece in the time scheduled, because of "personal reasons". Next thing, he posted pics to twitter of him, David Logan, and Steven Smith on vacation in Turks and Caicos on the beach.

The word in Greece is that he will be permanently kicked off the national team.

In past summers, many Greek players were doing this stuff and got away with it. Greek federation is no longer putting up with it.

The President also said he talked to the owner and GM of the Nuggets and to David Stern about Koufos refusing twice now to play for Greece due to his explanation that his NBA teams "demanded he workout with them over the summer and won't let him play for Greece".

The federation president said he talked to Denver about it, then went to Stern and told him this cannot be allowed under FIBA and NBA rules and the agreement they have with each other. Stern told him he lets the teams do whatever they want on that issue and that whomever plays the player's contract decides whether he can play for his national team or not.

The federation president stated that he then told Stern he would take care of it himself then if that is how the NBA is acting and that he would bring down a punishment to Koufos and possible banning from the national team and that they would take it up in the media as to why being that NBA is breaking the agreement and contract it has with FIBA and other national federations which says NBA can't block players from their national teams if they are called, but NBA IS doing that to Koufos.

So, the good chance if Koufos gets kicked off the team. Calathes is like 95% kicked off the team unless he publicly apologizes and shows up to camp.

[Euroleague]

i don't care what he said, i'm talking about basketball products of a country and koufos isn't a product of greek basketball and kaman isn't a product of german basketball

yeah well, then "basketball products".

Peja is a basketball product of Greece.

By your own made up personal definition, then Peja is a Greek player.

Peja sure the hell averaged more than 3.9 points in the NBA.

Rony Seikaly is a Greek basketball product - also more than 3.9 points in NBA.

So regardless, he is still full of shit that Fotsis had the highest average.

[Andrew Wiggins]

Koufos played in Greek junior national teams as a kid. He also trained in Greece during the summers when he was in high school. So no, it's not the same thing really.

Anyway, he might very well get kicked off the team. The President of the Greek basketball federation is extremely sick and tired of all the Greek players taking summers off every year and refusing to play for the national team.

Greece has more absences every summer than USA does, for years now.

So the president is trying to stop this, and he made a new rule that if players refuse to play for simple reasons like, "NBA does want me to", or "I want to take vacation instead", or "because I want to spend time with my wife or girlfriend", all the typical responses he gets for their absences.......

That their will be strict punishment for this. He also made a new rule that anyone invited to the team that said he would play initially, then does not show up (something else that a lot of Greek players have been doing recently), that this guy will be kicked off the team.

Nick Calathes got invited to play this summer, then said he would not show up at camp after the fact. First he said it was because his wife was having a baby so he coudl not play. Even though the baby came like 2 months ago.

Then he changed his story to he is working out with NBA teams the whole time so he can't come to camp, because he working out and will get an NBA contract. Even though he worked out one week in Dallas weeks ago, then they signed Melek instead.

Then his next excuse was that he just did not have time to fly from USA to Greece in the time scheduled, because of "personal reasons". Next thing, he posted pics to twitter of him, David Logan, and Steven Smith on vacation in Turks and Caicos on the beach.

The word in Greece is that he will be permanently kicked off the national team.

In past summers, many Greek players were doing this stuff and got away with it. Greek federation is no longer putting up with it.

The President also said he talked to the owner and GM of the Nuggets and to David Stern about Koufos refusing twice now to play for Greece due to his explanation that his NBA teams "demanded he workout with them over the summer and won't let him play for Greece".

The federation president said he talked to Denver about it, then went to Stern and told him this cannot be allowed under FIBA and NBA rules and the agreement they have with each other. Stern told him he lets the teams do whatever they want on that issue and that whomever plays the player's contract decides whether he can play for his national team or not.

The federation president stated that he then told Stern he would take care of it himself then if that is how the NBA is acting and that he would bring down a punishment to Koufos and possible banning from the national team and that they would take it up in the media as to why being that NBA is breaking the agreement and contract it has with FIBA and other national federations which says NBA can't block players from their national teams if they are called, but NBA IS doing that to Koufos.

So, the good chance if Koufos gets kicked off the team. Calathes is like 95% kicked off the team unless he publicly apologizes and shows up to camp.

incorrect

[Euroleague]

incorrect

Uh it's all over Greek media how incredibly pissed off Vassilakopoulos, the president of the federation is.

Koufos will definitely be punished. He will have to do public apology or he can forget about playing again. Mavrokefalidis got punished and he had to write a letter apologizing and he had to give a long interview on TV apologizing.

If not, he would still be banned off the team.

Calathes........the President already said he's off the team.

In the past, Diamantidis has been doing this stuff for a long time and getting away with it. Then Sofo started doing it since Diamantidis was. The federation has had enough of it.

So yeah, the President already removed Calathes off the team.

I will provide the link from the biggest Greek sports site proving it to you if you still insist in denying it.

[Andrew Wiggins]

Uh it's all over Greek media how incredibly pissed off Vassilakopoulos, the president of the federation is.

Koufos will definitely be punished. He will have to do public apology or he can forget about playing again. Mavrokefalidis got punished and he had to write a letter apologizing and he had to give a long interview on TV apologizing.

If not, he would still be banned off the team.

Calathes........the President already said he's off the team.

In the past, Diamantidis has been doing this stuff for a long time and getting away with it. Then Sofo started doing it since Diamantidis was. The federation has had enough of it.

So yeah, the President already removed Calathes off the team.

I will provide the link from the biggest Greek sports site proving it to you if you still insist in denying it.

i insist. post the link

[Dr.J4ever]

Uh it's all over Greek media how incredibly pissed off Vassilakopoulos, the president of the federation is.

Koufos will definitely be punished. He will have to do public apology or he can forget about playing again. Mavrokefalidis got punished and he had to write a letter apologizing and he had to give a long interview on TV apologizing.

If not, he would still be banned off the team.

Calathes........the President already said he's off the team.

In the past, Diamantidis has been doing this stuff for a long time and getting away with it. Then Sofo started doing it since Diamantidis was. The federation has had enough of it.

So yeah, the President already removed Calathes off the team.

I will provide the link from the biggest Greek sports site proving it to you if you still insist in denying it.

See, this is what happens when you have a record of making stuff up. You were exposed with you're "Spanoulis NBA offers" crap and your numerous fake quotes. I'm not saying you're wrong now with this Greek Federation stuff, but you cried wolf too many times.

Shameless.

[Euroleague]

i insist. post the link

This is where the president first said that he will not tolerate the players treating the national team however they want anymore and strict rules will be applied from now on. He starts by setting a date for the players to report, or they are off the team.

This because in recent years numerous players are acting however they want towards the team.

http://www.sport24.gr/Basket/ElladaBasket/eok/kampanaki_apo_thn_omospondia.2327527.html


This is where the president stated Calathes is off the team after his personal actions refusing to show up to camp on time.

Using excuse that he had to workout with NBA teams past that date.

http://www.sport24.gr/Basket/ElladaBasket/EthnikiBasket/o_kalathhs_evgale_ton_eayto_toy_ektos_ethnikhs.232 8889.html

This is where Calathes made up another excuse.

"can't play in the team at the reported camp date because I am working with NBA teams from now until three days after."

http://www.sport24.gr/Basket/ElladaBasket/EthnikiBasket/kalathhs_sto_sport24_gr_thelw_na_paiksw_sthn_ethni kh_alla.2329431.html


This is where the coach already called Calathes' replacement, Mantzaris. But Mantzaris is not fit yet to pass the medical tests, so he could not play.

http://www.redplanet.gr/basket/h-eok-kalese-sthn-ethnikh-ton-mantzarh.2330188.html

So Calathes was off the team and suspended but the word was he had a chance to come back to the team if he did like Mavrokefalidis did and made a written and a public apology then reported. Same thing Koufos will probably have to do, or he is banned also.

However, then this happened. Calathes posting his vacation pics and that he is currently in Caribbean. He told Greek federation he would be working with NBA teams this whole time and could not have any time at all off to come to Greece national team before several weeks.

http://www.sport24.gr/Basket/treis_prwhn_prasinoi_sthn_karaivikh.2332839.html

The rumors and talk now is that he is pretty much for sure banned off the team permanent. Diamantidis has been doing stuff like this for a long time and got away with it, but they are not tolerating it any more and they are showing the Greek media and public what the players are doing.

In an effort to get this to stop, since like I said, Greece has more absences than any team every summer, even more than USA and it is causing too many problems in the national team.

The federation president also said he will be taking up NBA with the FIBA agreement and that Stern is letting NBA teams dictate whether guys can play in national teams or not, even though this is not allowed under FIBA rules.

NBA owners, especially Cuban have been doing this for a long time, but it seems Greek federation is not going to tolerate it anymore. And Greek federation president is considered the most powerful guy in European basketball federations. NBA of course denies they do this, but Dirk even said before that Cuban blocked him from playing for Germany, which again, is not allowed under FIBA rules.

I think Greek federation got tired of this with Koufos, because Utah blocked him before from the national team, and now Denver did the same.

[Euroleague]

See, this is what happens when you have a record of making stuff up. You were exposed with you're "Spanoulis NBA offers" crap and your numerous fake quotes. I'm not saying you're wrong now with this Greek Federation stuff, but you cried wolf too many times.

Shameless.

Spanoulis said that to Spanish media IDIOT. It is in both French and Spanish media.

[Dr.J4ever]

Spanoulis said that to Spanish media IDIOT. It is in both French and Spanish media.

For weeks, people have said one thing resoundingly: SHOW THE LINK!

[Andrew Wiggins]

This is where the president first said that he will not tolerate the players treating the national team however they want anymore and strict rules will be applied from now on. He starts by setting a date for the players to report, or they are off the team.

This because in recent years numerous players are acting however they want towards the team.

http://www.sport24.gr/Basket/ElladaBasket/eok/kampanaki_apo_thn_omospondia.2327527.html


This is where the president stated Calathes is off the team after his personal actions refusing to show up to camp on time.

Using excuse that he had to workout with NBA teams past that date.

http://www.sport24.gr/Basket/ElladaBasket/EthnikiBasket/o_kalathhs_evgale_ton_eayto_toy_ektos_ethnikhs.232 8889.html

This is where Calathes made up another excuse.

"can't play in the team at the reported camp date because I am working with NBA teams from now until three days after."

http://www.sport24.gr/Basket/ElladaBasket/EthnikiBasket/kalathhs_sto_sport24_gr_thelw_na_paiksw_sthn_ethni kh_alla.2329431.html


This is where the coach already called Calathes' replacement, Mantzaris. But Mantzaris is not fit yet to pass the medical tests, so he could not play.

http://www.redplanet.gr/basket/h-eok-kalese-sthn-ethnikh-ton-mantzarh.2330188.html

So Calathes was off the team and suspended but the word was he had a chance to come back to the team if he did like Mavrokefalidis did and made a written and a public apology then reported. Same thing Koufos will probably have to do, or he is banned also.

However, then this happened. Calathes posting his vacation pics and that he is currently in Caribbean. He told Greek federation he would be working with NBA teams this whole time and could not have any time at all off to come to Greece national team before several weeks.

http://www.sport24.gr/Basket/treis_prwhn_prasinoi_sthn_karaivikh.2332839.html

The rumors and talk now is that he is pretty much for sure banned off the team permanent. Diamantidis has been doing stuff like this for a long time and got away with it, but they are not tolerating it any more and they are showing the Greek media and public what the players are doing.

In an effort to get this to stop, since like I said, Greece has more absences than any team every summer, even more than USA and it is causing too many problems in the national team.

The federation president also said he will be taking up NBA with the FIBA agreement and that Stern is letting NBA teams dictate whether guys can play in national teams or not, even though this is not allowed under FIBA rules.

NBA owners, especially Cuban have been doing this for a long time, but it seems Greek federation is not going to tolerate it anymore. And Greek federation president is considered the most powerful guy in European basketball federations. NBA of course denies they do this, but Dirk even said before that Cuban blocked him from playing for Germany, which again, is not allowed under FIBA rules.

I think Greek federation got tired of this with Koufos, because Utah blocked him before from the national team, and now Denver did the same.

that can't be true because koufos doesn't play for denver

[Euroleague]

For weeks, people have said one thing resoundingly: SHOW THE LINK!

I was from a couple months ago. I can't find it now. I don't freaking have the time to scan all over the damn Spanish media for it in news archives.

It is there somewhere. But I don't have the freaking time to find it.

[Euroleague]

that can't be true because koufos doesn't play for denver

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosta_Koufos

On June 27th, 2013, Koufos was traded to the Memphis Grizzlies for Darrell Arthur and rights the the 55th pick in the 2013 NBA Draft, Joffrey Lauvergne.[14]

Koufos was blocked and suspended long before that. And it is most definitely 100% true.

[Andrew Wiggins]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosta_Koufos

On June 27th, 2013, Koufos was traded to the Memphis Grizzlies for Darrell Arthur and rights the the 55th pick in the 2013 NBA Draft, Joffrey Lauvergne.[14]

Koufos was blocked and suspended long before that. And it is most definitely 100% true.

a suspension can't be upheld by a team that he is not employed by

[Euroleague]

a suspension can't be upheld by a team that he is not employed by

What? Greek federation suspended him.

[Dr.J4ever]

Spanoulis said that to Spanish media IDIOT. It is in both French and Spanish media.

You also lied about the Kirilenko interview, and that was a big one. You said Kiri said Vspan was the best Euro PG, but he actually said it was Parker . You also lied about the NBA offers to Vspan crap and exposed by the others here on the board with that.

You like talking about everyone here on ISH with a "70 iq" or something, and yet you think your lunatic rants here on ISh are a work of art?

Again, with everyone against you, there are only 2 options, genius or nut? What are you?

[SpanishACB]

However, it IS racist to imply that black metabolism makes a person more athletic. That's a generalized statement and is factually untrue.



Calf muscles.

Go read a bit and take a rest from spreading ignorance like you have AIDS in San Francisco.

[madmax]

So do you think Greece might be able to beat Nigeria next time. Only if they don't have that scrub Spanoulis and that slow, stiff Bourousis.

:lol

[Euroleague]

You also lied about the Kirilenko interview, and that was a big one. You said Kiri said Vspan was the best Euro PG, but he actually said it was Parker . You also lied about the NBA offers to Vspan crap and exposed by the others here on the board with that.

You like talking about everyone here on ISH with a "70 iq" or something, and yet you think your lunatic rants here on ISh are a work of art?

Again, with everyone against you, there are only 2 options, genius or nut? What are you?

Go **** yourself.

[Euroleague]

Calf muscles.

Go read a bit and take a rest from spreading ignorance like you have AIDS in San Francisco.

Ignore list. You earned it.