Michael Jackson's prime?

[Heilige]

When was Michael Jackson in his prime, and how long did it last? At what point did he start to decline from his prime/peak?

[32jazz]

Others may disagree with me ,but I tend to give Mike a long prime between 1977-1988 with the markers being The Wiz(77 production date/Off The Wall) & The Grammys(1988). Peak years 1981(Triumph Tour)-1985('Victory Tour' end).


By his late teens he was already a polished performer & was one of the few critical positive performances in the film 'The Wiz'. At the same time he was working on 'Off The Wall' & brought 3 major hits to the studio; Working Day & Night,Don't Stop 'Til..., & 'Wanna Be Startin' Something'(foolishly rejected by Quincy Jones as 'weak')


Already at the age of 19/20 the guy was polished & could have embarked on a career as an A list Choreographer(had choreographed the Jacksons dance routines for years), R&B songwriter/producer or just concentrated on singing.



Riding high on Off the Wall Album (best selling African American album at the time)& The Triumph Tour Michael Jackson was at his peak in 1981 & obvious time for Michael to cut the cord from his Brothers.


1982 -85 "Thriller" speaks for it self & his Motown's 25th performance(83) left everyone from fans to Entertainers like Sammy Davis Jr./Fred Astaire,etc...near speechless .

1988 Grammy Awards I think Michael had basically given us all he had although he was still A-list afterwards & was capable of putting on great shows ,but.....


1977-1988- Prime Michael Jackson
1981-1985- Peak Michael Jackson

[L.Kizzle]

Others may disagree with me ,but I tend to give Mike a long prime between 1977-1988 with the markers being The Wiz(77 production date/Off The Wall) & The Grammys(1988). Peak years 1981(Triumph Tour)-1985('Victory Tour' end).


By his late teens he was already a polished performer & was one of the few critical positive performances in the film 'The Wiz'. At the same time he was working on 'Off The Wall' & brought 3 major hits to the studio; Working Day & Night,Don't Stop 'Til..., & 'Wanna Be Startin' Something'(foolishly rejected by Quincy Jones as 'weak')


Already at the age of 19/20 the guy was polished & could have embarked on a career as an A list Choreographer(had choreographed the Jacksons dance routines for years), R&B songwriter/producer or just concentrated on singing.



Riding high on Off the Wall Album (best selling African American album at the time)& The Triumph Tour Michael Jackson was at his peak in 1981 & obvious time for Michael to cut the cord from his Brothers.


1982 -85 "Thriller" speaks for it self & his Motown's 25th performance(83) left everyone from fans to Entertainers like Sammy Davis Jr./Fred Astaire,etc...near speechless .

1988 Grammy Awards I think Michael had basically given us all he had although he was still A-list afterwards & was capable of putting on great shows ,but.....


1977-1988- Prime Michael Jackson
1981-1985- Peak Michael Jackson
I agree with the peak, but his prime has to include the J5 years, if talking about Mike as a whole.

[rezznor]

Beat it/thrilller

[alenleomessi]

i think 80s peak, early 70s till 2001 prime

[32jazz]

I agree with the peak, but his prime has to include the J5 years, if talking about Mike as a whole.

Well pre 1977 it was evident that Michael was already a great singer/dancer ,but it was 1977/78 that it ALL(songwriting, dancing,singing,acting,etc...) came together.( ie The Wiz & writing for "Off the Wall").

Not that he wasn't capable before ,but with Motown's oppressive practices which crushed much creative freedom(Marvin Gaye ,Stevie Wonder & The Jackson's all had bitter creative control/pay battles with Motown) Michael wasn't allowed any growth. Never allowed to play their instruments,write songs,etc....but just 'sing/dance & look cute'.

Getting the hell away from Motown was one of the best things that happened to him. By 1977/78 (The Wiz/Off The Wall) not only was his singing/dancing brilliance already common knowledge Hollywood,Theatre /Broadway along with the music world(his emergence as a writer/artist) had to take notice.

It was 1977/78 that the world realized that Jackson wasn't just some cute little Motown produced kid who could sing or dance. Many of those are exposed/burn out when the cutenes is gone. By 1977/78 he was coming into his own & proving himself the versatile artist the World admired.

I disagree with you so far ,but what year would you say his 'prime' began if not 77/78? Agree with his 'prime' ending in around 1988?(I picked '88 Grammys as roughly the end of his prime).

[DeuceWallaces]

He was insanely popular until HIStory/Scream in '95.

[L.Kizzle]

Well pre 1977 it was evident that Michael was already a great singer/dancer ,but it was 1977/78 that it ALL(songwriting, dancing,singing,acting,etc...) came together.( ie The Wiz & writing for "Off the Wall").

Not that he wasn't capable before ,but with Motown's oppressive practices which crushed much creative freedom(Marvin Gaye ,Stevie Wonder & The Jackson's all had bitter creative control/pay battles with Motown) Michael wasn't allowed any growth. Never allowed to play their instruments,write songs,etc....but just 'sing/dance & look cute'.

Getting the hell away from Motown was one of the best things that happened to him. By 1977/78 (The Wiz/Off The Wall) not only was his singing/dancing brilliance already common knowledge Hollywood,Theatre /Broadway along with the music world(his emergence as a writer/artist) had to take notice.

It was 1977/78 that the world realized that Jackson wasn't just some cute little Motown produced kid who could sing or dance. Many of those are exposed/burn out when the cutenes is gone. By 1977/78 he was coming into his own & proving himself the versatile artist the World admired.

I disagree with you so far ,but what year would you say his 'prime' began if not 77/78? Agree with his 'prime' ending in around 1988?(I picked '88 Grammys as roughly the end of his prime).
I'd say the end of the Dangerous period. The wheel chair performance at Soul Train in 1993.

[Lebron23]

1981-1995.

[Heilige]

Well pre 1977 it was evident that Michael was already a great singer/dancer ,but it was 1977/78 that it ALL(songwriting, dancing,singing,acting,etc...) came together.( ie The Wiz & writing for "Off the Wall").

Not that he wasn't capable before ,but with Motown's oppressive practices which crushed much creative freedom(Marvin Gaye ,Stevie Wonder & The Jackson's all had bitter creative control/pay battles with Motown) Michael wasn't allowed any growth. Never allowed to play their instruments,write songs,etc....but just 'sing/dance & look cute'.

Getting the hell away from Motown was one of the best things that happened to him. By 1977/78 (The Wiz/Off The Wall) not only was his singing/dancing brilliance already common knowledge Hollywood,Theatre /Broadway along with the music world(his emergence as a writer/artist) had to take notice.

It was 1977/78 that the world realized that Jackson wasn't just some cute little Motown produced kid who could sing or dance. Many of those are exposed/burn out when the cutenes is gone. By 1977/78 he was coming into his own & proving himself the versatile artist the World admired.

I disagree with you so far ,but what year would you say his 'prime' began if not 77/78? Agree with his 'prime' ending in around 1988?(I picked '88 Grammys as roughly the end of his prime).




Great post! You seem to know a lot about Michael and the music scene back then. Any books you recommend so I can learn more?


Also, what do you consider Michael Jackson's best album?


Please check your PM when you have the chance.

[32jazz]

I'd say the end of the Dangerous period. The wheel chair performance at Soul Train in 1993.

Absolute Boss when you can 'perform' in a wheel chair & bring down the house.

But I feel that was based more upon love, respect & admiration of Michael because obviously he didn't 'perform'.

Good post & I will re-evaluate that 'Dangerous' period. He did perform at the Super Bowl in 93 (?) as well & was still great.

That Super Bowl Medley could also point to a basic summation/winding down of his prime. Last hurrah.

The reason I didn't pick the 'Dangerous' period as 'prime' because by then he depended more on others for song
writing duties verifying to me that by 1988/Bad era he had given us all he had.

I'll get back with you Heillige

[L.Kizzle]

Absolute Boss when you can 'perform' in a wheel chair & bring down the house.

But I feel that was based more upon love, respect & admiration of Michael because obviously he didn't 'perform'.

Good post & I will re-evaluate that 'Dangerous' period. He did perform at the Super Bowl in 93 (?) as well & was still great.

That Super Bowl Medley could also point to a basic summation/winding down of his prime. Last hurrah.

The reason I didn't pick the 'Dangerous' period as 'prime' because by then he depended more on others for song
writing duties verifying to me that by 1988/Bad era he had given us all he had.

I'll get back with you Heillige
History is probably his creative peak though. His songwriting was at his best and most deep. Just like Donald Duck Mathews from the Five Heartbeats said "You'll finally become a great writer when you suffer or go through something." His 2 most underrated songs "Stranger in Moscow" and "Earth Song" he's the only artist credited on the writing and production side. No Quincy, no Teddy, no Bruce, no Jam and Lewis, just him. Then other great tracks like "Money" and "Tabloid Junkie" among others.

And for Dangerous, that is still mostly him. Goon Too Soon is the only track he doesn't have writers credit on, obviously because it's a cover.

Record wise, you can go as far as HIStory, but performance wise you gotta stop at the Dangerous LP. Also, don't forget the live HBO concert he put on in 92.

[Heilige]

History is probably his creative peak though. His songwriting was at his best and most deep. Just like Donald Duck Mathews from the Five Heartbeats said "You'll finally become a great writer when you suffer or go through something." His 2 most underrated songs "Stranger in Moscow" and "Earth Song" he's the only artist credited on the writing and production side. No Quincy, no Teddy, no Bruce, no Jam and Lewis, just him. Then other great tracks like "Money" and "Tabloid Junkie" among others.

And for Dangerous, that is still mostly him. Goon Too Soon is the only track he doesn't have writers credit on, obviously because it's a cover.

Record wise, you can go as far as HIStory, but performance wise you gotta stop at the Dangerous LP. Also, don't forget the live HBO concert he put on in 92.


You made going/very informative points in this thread and I wanted to ask you the same I asked 32jazz

You seem to know a lot about Michael and the music scene back then. Any books you recommend so I can learn more?


Also, what do you consider Michael Jackson's best album?

[L.Kizzle]

On the real, Mike as in his prime as far back as 1967 before he stepped foot in a Motown office. At that time, the Jackson 5 were sharing bills with the like of Gladys Knight and the Pips, The O'Jays, Temptations, James Brown, Jackie Wilson, Etta James, Sam and Dave, Isley Brothers, The Impressions oh and all of those artist are Rock and Roll Hall of Famers.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ptF1HYX6svs/S_xFaMgUnZI/AAAAAAAAAMk/6yTfvqvQ5Gk/s400/apollo+may+24.jpg

If you search the web and read stories about their early years, it's fascinating. A lot of artist did not want the J5 to open of their show. They were so good, so young you could not follow them. Some used to think he was a midget.

There first single for the small Steeltown label even made the Jet top 20 in early 1968.


http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=UTgDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA65&dq=jackson%20five%20big%20boy&pg=PA65#v=onepage&q=jackson%20five%20big%20boy&f=false


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ptF1HYX6svs/TCElrnQaNjI/AAAAAAAAAlk/TweVlRO-bTU/s320/regal+july+12+1968.jpg

Word of mouth about this group spread like wildfire. They were even invited to appear and perform the David Frost Show in Jul of 68. A few weeks earlier, they were sharing a bill with Motown's Bobby and the Vancouver at the famed Regal Theater in Chicago (one of the members went on to be a comedy legend, Tommy Chong of Cheech and Chong.) Taylor heard of these guys but never seen them, he was blown away. He said "I'm taking you guys to Berry Gordy right now." And that's were this clip comes from. And the rest is HIStory


J5 Motown Audition (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9QJJgZfF4c)

[32jazz]

You made going/very informative points in this thread and I wanted to ask you the same I asked 32jazz

You seem to know a lot about Michael and the music scene back then. Any books you recommend so I can learn more?


Also, what do you consider Michael Jackson's best album?

I'm from 'back then'.:oldlol: :(

Not gonna lie to you as if I have a library on these guys ,but outside of Stevie,Marvin & MJ I am not a huge Motown fan. I am a little older & witnessed Mike during his Peak.

I get my information from album liner notes which I have (ie Marvin Gaye': The Master, 'Stevie: At the end of the Century' among other albums), documentaries & interviews over the years about these guys & Motown.


I am more a Jazz/Blues fan(my username) & can give you several books on that subject however?

[32jazz]

History is probably his creative peak though. His songwriting was at his best and most deep. Just like Donald Duck Mathews from the Five Heartbeats said "You'll finally become a great writer when you suffer or go through something." His 2 most underrated songs "Stranger in Moscow" and "Earth Song" he's the only artist credited on the writing and production side. No Quincy, no Teddy, no Bruce, no Jam and Lewis, just him. Then other great tracks like "Money" and "Tabloid Junkie" among others.

And for Dangerous, that is still mostly him. Goon Too Soon is the only track he doesn't have writers credit on, obviously because it's a cover.

Record wise, you can go as far as HIStory, but performance wise you gotta stop at the Dangerous LP. Also, don't forget the live HBO concert he put on in 92.

Great correction of me about the writing as Mike was still certainly capable ,but after Bad (wisely dumped Jones) it was more about updating his sound/getting with the times than a decline. Point well taken.

I went to Youtube & watched some concert footage of him during the 90's & will say he was still very good ,but obviously the decline had begun by the Dangerous Tour(as a performer).

The Dangerous tour with more playback, cancellations due to exhaustion,injuries, swagger diminishing because of self conciousness about looks, & not to mention the looming child molestation stuff that would further crush confidence.( History Tour 1996 his weak/inconsistent vocals, good but less than crisp dancing was a lot more obvious. He almost looks bored at times).

Mike was great at the 1995 MTV awards at age 37? ,but I just think by the early 90's he just could no longer consistently pull off stuff he did on a bad night during the 'Bad' era.

Not a major decline ,but as a marker 'Dangerous Tour' was the began of his decline from his 'Prime'(1988/89 Grammys awards / Bad Tour era).

I can't say beyond 1988/89 with the Grammys/'Bad'Tour was 'prime' MJ.

[Heilige]

I'm from 'back then'.:oldlol: :(

Not gonna lie to you as if I have a library on these guys ,but outside of Stevie,Marvin & MJ I am not a huge Motown fan. I am a little older & witnessed Mike during his Peak.

I get my information from album liner notes which I have (ie Marvin Gaye': The Master, 'Stevie: At the end of the Century' among other albums), documentaries & interviews over the years about these guys & Motown.


I am more a Jazz/Blues fan(my username) & can give you several books on that subject however?


Sure, you can give me several books on that subject.

Also, what do you consider Michael Jackson's best album?


Check your Private Messages when you have the chance.

[L.Kizzle]

You made going/very informative points in this thread and I wanted to ask you the same I asked 32jazz

You seem to know a lot about Michael and the music scene back then. Any books you recommend so I can learn more?


Also, what do you consider Michael Jackson's best album?
It's hard to rank MJ's best album, because really all of them are good to great. I can list the five I listen to the most. I grouped them into J5/Jacksons/solo.


MJ solo
Off The Wall
Got To Be There
Thriller
Bad
HIStory


Jacksons
Triumph
Destiny
The Jacksons
Victory
Goin' Places


Jackson 5
Third Album
Lookin' Through the Windows
Moving Violation
ABC
Diana Ross Presents


Some of the best books are biography. James Brown's bio, a Jacki Wilson book I read in grade school which I can't remember the name of.

[Heilige]

It's hard to rank MJ's best album, because really all of them are good to great. I can list the five I listen to the most. I grouped them into J5/Jacksons/solo.


MJ solo
Off The Wall
Got To Be There
Thriller
Bad
HIStory


Jacksons
Triumph
Destiny
The Jacksons
Victory
Goin' Places


Jackson 5
Third Album
Lookin' Through the Windows
Moving Violation
ABC
Diana Ross Presents


Some of the best books are biography. James Brown's bio, a Jacki Wilson book I read in grade school which I can't remember the name of.


Thanks. :cheers:

[32jazz]

Sure, you can give me several books on that subject.

Also, what do you consider Michael Jackson's best album?


Check your Private Messages when you have the chance.

"Visions of Jazz "by Gary Giddins who is one of my favorite Jazz Critics
"History of Jazz" - Ted Gioia you can't go wrong with either of these books


"Deep Blues" by Robert Palmer My absolutely favorite book about the the history of Delta Blues which was the indirect inspiration/culmination (via Chicago Bluesman ) blues/Rockers like Clapton,Stones,Zepplin,etc.....:applause:

Ted Gioia-"Delta Blues"


"Hole in Our Soul?" By Martha Bayles is my favorite book about the state of Pop music which she feels has lost it's way after deviating too far from it's R&B roots- Highly recommeded:applause:


Speaking of which the Ken Burns "Jazz" documentary gives a great video documentation of the History of Jazz(with flaws) especially up the the 1960's. It seems to stop there as the 1970's was a nadir in Jazz history & seems to unfairly concentrate on certain artist, but trying to condense 75 years of Jazz .....(.Gary Giddins love of Jazz is clearly evident in the documentary since he nearly needs to be restrained to his when discussing it. )




I have other biographies of specific Jazz & Blues musicians(Duke Ellington,Thelonius Monk,Armstrong, Charlie Parker, Charlie Patton, Jelly Roll Morton,etc......but I wouldn't recommend any of them until you first see which Artists appeal to you after watching Ken Burns/Jazz & reading a couple of the general History books above. You can then determine which artists/genre of Jazz/Blues you like to further read about.

If you want examples of artist you read about sample their work on YouTube before buying cd's.



You seem to be more interested in R&B & I have personally not read him (other than excerpts) , but Nelson George has been recommended to me.

[32jazz]

Sure, you can give me several books on that subject.

Also, what do you consider Michael Jackson's best album?


Check your Private Messages when you have the chance.

Back to MJ. You can't go wrong with Kizzle recommendations. "Best"?

Maybe not his best ,but it's something about the Off The Wall Michael that personally gets the best response from me(Not that it's his 'best' Album though).

I like the warm straight forward vocals over some decent funk beats as opposed to the seemingly more measured/less relaxed,in comparison, later works. By "Bad" era his little yelps, hiccups & other vocal effects annoyed me somewhat.


Maybe that's why I go back to what I feel was his Prime was :

1977/78(Wiz/Off the Wall era)- 1988-89( 88 Grammys/Bad Tour era).

Peak: 1981(Triumph era)- 85(Thriller era)


By 1992 the overall decline(that was your question) was beginning with the concert cancellations/exhaustion(wink wink),injuries,odder physicalappearance/confidence , etc..... But that doesn't mean he still wasn't 1st rate just less consistent/uneven.

By 1996(History Tour) he was still beloved, entertaining,etc........but easily out of Prime.

[OldSkoolball#52]

MJ's prime as a singer was his tall/skinny/teenage years pre-nose surgery. The nose surgeries began I believe around the time of the Wiz. By the time Off the Wall came out, his voice was definitely no longer the real draw, as much as his general performance and delivery.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uXlsf3tvNo

The smoothness of this Sinatra cover is unreality. Every change in pitch, every elongated note, the delicate falsetto... everything just executed perfectly! Crazy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTEGraARUxs

Start watching at 1:10 and listen to how she introduces each Jackson, and how each one sounds just kind of plain and whatever, then when she gets to Michael its like WHAM! It's just one line but you can hear how superior the guy is to everyone around him. Then fast forward to 2:20, and peep the singin. Best part is after the first verse and chorus, theres a real funk instrumental breakdown followed by MJ straight freakin it. W00h!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8djjx0wMWdg

J5 medley with Cher. Listen to him sing I'll Be There (second song) and just peep the "sing cher" adlib he does after the first chorus. God its ****ing SILK!




Now dancing/performance prime was def the thriller and bad years. Not just because of the music videos and choreography, but you could tell he hit his stride and identity as a dancer on stage. He was a machine wit the moves at that point, everything was so incredibly precise and emotive. In his singing prime like in the videos above, he mostly just kind of used JB and Jackie Wilson stage moves and the dancing was mostly second to the singing. By Thriller he reversed that and started engineering his own dance moves and routines and innovations.


Dudes instincts for performance were just utterly unmatched. Such a fukkin baller on stage. No disrespect to any other great. That's really what it was too, he just had pure instincts for how something is supposed to sound/look. Guys was a ****ing artiste!

[Heilige]

MJ's prime as a singer was his tall/skinny/teenage years pre-nose surgery. The nose surgeries began I believe around the time of the Wiz. By the time Off the Wall came out, his voice was definitely no longer the real draw, as much as his general performance and delivery.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uXlsf3tvNo

The smoothness of this Sinatra cover is unreality. Every change in pitch, every elongated note, the delicate falsetto... everything just executed perfectly! Crazy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTEGraARUxs

Start watching at 1:10 and listen to how she introduces each Jackson, and how each one sounds just kind of plain and whatever, then when she gets to Michael its like WHAM! It's just one line but you can hear how superior the guy is to everyone around him. Then fast forward to 2:20, and peep the singin. Best part is after the first verse and chorus, theres a real funk instrumental breakdown followed by MJ straight freakin it. W00h!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8djjx0wMWdg

J5 medley with Cher. Listen to him sing I'll Be There (second song) and just peep the "sing cher" adlib he does after the first chorus. God its ****ing SILK!




Now dancing/performance prime was def the thriller and bad years. Not just because of the music videos and choreography, but you could tell he hit his stride and identity as a dancer on stage. He was a machine wit the moves at that point, everything was so incredibly precise and emotive. In his singing prime like in the videos above, he mostly just kind of used JB and Jackie Wilson stage moves and the dancing was mostly second to the singing. By Thriller he reversed that and started engineering his own dance moves and routines and innovations.


Dudes instincts for performance were just utterly unmatched. Such a fukkin baller on stage. No disrespect to any other great. That's really what it was too, he just had pure instincts for how something is supposed to sound/look. Guys was a ****ing artiste!



Good post! :cheers:


Wanted to throw this out there for you and anyone else who wants to answer. Know it probably is a hard question, but want to know your thoughts as well as L. Kizzle's and 32jazz.


A. Who do you consider the top 10 singers of all time?

B. Who do you consider the top 10 song writers of all time?

C. Who do you consider the top 10 performers of all time?

[OldSkoolball#52]

A. Who do you consider the top 10 singers of all time?

In terms of pure vocal strength and smoothness, I'd start with most of the standard bearers: Jackie Wilson, Aretha Franklin, Whitney Houston, Frank Sinatra, Marvin Gaye, even a young MJ, maybe throw Janis Joplin in there

If you include delivery, style, personal preference etc. then I'd start adding Little Richard, Otis Redding, Elton John, Stevie Wonder, Rod Stewart (in his rock days), Ray Charles, Howlin Wolf, Robert Plant, even George Jones on the country side

B. Who do you consider the top 10 song writers of all time?


That's a tricky one. Berry Gordy immediately comes to mind. I'm a big fan of Don Henley from the Eagles as a songwriter. Otis Redding wrote a lot of his own stuff which was great. Smokey Robinson. Bob Dylan. David Bowie. There's more but this one I'd have to rack my brain a lil harder over which atm I'm too tired to do.


C. Who do you consider the top 10 performers of all time?

Little Richard, Michael Jackson, James Brown, Jackie Wilson, Otis Redding, Mick Jagger, Freddy Mercury, Kizzle's guy Joe Tex, Prince...

I'm sure there's plenty more Im missing including some obvious ones, that's just off the top of my head doe




:djparty :dancin

[Heilige]

:djparty :dancin


Thanks man! Who do you think are the best music producers?

[L.Kizzle]

MJ's prime as a singer was his tall/skinny/teenage years pre-nose surgery. The nose surgeries began I believe around the time of the Wiz. By the time Off the Wall came out, his voice was definitely no longer the real draw, as much as his general performance and delivery.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uXlsf3tvNo

The smoothness of this Sinatra cover is unreality. Every change in pitch, every elongated note, the delicate falsetto... everything just executed perfectly! Crazy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTEGraARUxs

Start watching at 1:10 and listen to how she introduces each Jackson, and how each one sounds just kind of plain and whatever, then when she gets to Michael its like WHAM! It's just one line but you can hear how superior the guy is to everyone around him. Then fast forward to 2:20, and peep the singin. Best part is after the first verse and chorus, theres a real funk instrumental breakdown followed by MJ straight freakin it. W00h!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8djjx0wMWdg

J5 medley with Cher. Listen to him sing I'll Be There (second song) and just peep the "sing cher" adlib he does after the first chorus. God its ****ing SILK!




Now dancing/performance prime was def the thriller and bad years. Not just because of the music videos and choreography, but you could tell he hit his stride and identity as a dancer on stage. He was a machine wit the moves at that point, everything was so incredibly precise and emotive. In his singing prime like in the videos above, he mostly just kind of used JB and Jackie Wilson stage moves and the dancing was mostly second to the singing. By Thriller he reversed that and started engineering his own dance moves and routines and innovations.


Dudes instincts for performance were just utterly unmatched. Such a fukkin baller on stage. No disrespect to any other great. That's really what it was too, he just had pure instincts for how something is supposed to sound/look. Guys was a ****ing artiste!
Check these medley' out.

Killing Me Softly/By The Time I Get To Phoenix/Danny Boy 1974 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w2dixRT3m8)

Tonight Show 1976 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4jGvllnmeA)

Grammy Awards 1973 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bABlC3_Is74)

[L.Kizzle]

All of the top, I need some time to think and I'd probably be a different list tomorrow.


A. Who do you consider the top 10 singers of all time?
Clyde McPhatter
Little Willie John
Jackie Wilson
Sam Cooke
Marvin Gaye
Aretha Franklin
Michael Jackson
Freddie Mercury
Whitney Houston


B. Who do you consider the top 10 song writers of all time?
Smokey Robinson
Curtis Mayfield
Gamble and Huff
John Lennon/Paul McCartney
Stevie Wonder
Bob Dylan
Prince
Roy Orbison


C. Who do you consider the top 10 performers of all time?
Jackie Wilson
James Brown
Joe Tex
Ike and Tina Turner Revue
Jimi Hendrix
Michael Jackson/Jacksons
Queen
Prince


D. Who do you think are the best music producers?
Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis
George Martin
Prince
Gamble and Huff
Teddy Riley
James Brown
Rick Rubin
Quincy Jones
Stevie Wonder

[Heilige]

All of the top, I need some time to think and I'd probably be a different list tomorrow.


A. Who do you consider the top 10 singers of all time?
Clyde McPhatter
Little Willie John
Jackie Wilson
Sam Cooke
Marvin Gaye
Aretha Franklin
Michael Jackson
Freddie Mercury
Whitney Houston


B. Who do you consider the top 10 song writers of all time?
Smokey Robinson
Curtis Mayfield
Gamble and Huff
John Lennon/Paul McCartney
Stevie Wonder
Bob Dylan
Prince
Roy Orbison


C. Who do you consider the top 10 performers of all time?
Jackie Wilson
James Brown
Joe Tex
Ike and Tina Turner Revue
Jimi Hendrix
Michael Jackson/Jacksons
Queen
Prince


D. Who do you think are the best music producers?
Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis
George Martin
Prince
Gamble and Huff
Teddy Riley
James Brown
Rick Rubin
Quincy Jones
Stevie Wonder



Thanks man! What type of music do you like the most? I'll admit it and a little embarrassed to admit it, but most people on these lists I am not familiar with. How can I develop the breadth of knowledge you have of music?


I am going to watch that jazz documentary 32jazz mentioned to start with.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Thanks man! What type of music do you like the most? I'll admit it and a little embarrassed to admit it, but most people on these lists I am not familiar with. How can I develop the breadth of knowledge you have of music?


I am going to watch that jazz documentary 32jazz mentioned to start with.


Pandora and Youtube are the window into the musical golden ages and days of yore. Just hit em up and explore.

And obviously using message boards like you just did helps as well. In fact, true story, some of the artists I mentioned previously who are now some of my favorite singers, to whom I listen all the time and know a ton about, I was first introduced to by seeing L Kizzle post a link to a song or mention a name, two, three, four years ago, and I went and checked it out and loved what I heard. Really got me into some acts I otherwise might still not ever have heard of. THanks kizzle!

[32jazz]

Good post! :cheers:


Wanted to throw this out there for you and anyone else who wants to answer. Know it probably is a hard question, but want to know your thoughts as well as L. Kizzle's and 32jazz.


A. Who do you consider the top 10 singers of all time?

B. Who do you consider the top 10 song writers of all time?

C. Who do you consider the top 10 performers of all time?

L Kizzle has a damn good list( no real issues except Joe Tex ) & it's obvious his taste lean towards old school R&B/Soul. I'll just give you a cross section of MY favorite genres (no particular order/rank) & not totally repeat.


Singers:
Sarah Vaughn
Billie Holiday
Ella Fitzgerald
Mahalia Jackson
Marvin Gaye
Sam Cooke
Muddy Waters
Howlin' Wolf
Dinah Washington
Aretha Franklin



Songwriters/JAZZ didn't have 'songwriters ' per se, so composers will be listed as well:

Willie Dixon
Allen Toussaint/Professor Longhair(New Orleans love)
Stevie Wonder
Prince
Ashford & Simpson
Strong/Whitfield(Motown)
Duke Ellington/Billy Strayhorn
Charles Mingus
Thelonious Monk
Thomas Dorsey

[L.Kizzle]

L Kizzle has a damn good list( no real issues except Joe Tex )
:biggums: I beg your pardon!

Joe Tex Show Live (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgDV6PSA2sM)

[32jazz]

:biggums: I beg your pardon!

Joe Tex Show Live (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgDV6PSA2sM)

You already have James Brown on the list so need to list a hack who's copying him move for move. "Hold on to What You Got" is an absolute R&B classic & Tex has a few novelty stuff like Skinny Legs & Bump no more ,but top 10 all time performer?........

Updating my list for Heilige without boring him with Jazz

Songwriters:

Ashford & Simpson
Lionel Richie
Sam Cooke
Strong/Whitfield/Holland/Dozier
Allen Toussaint/Professor Longhair
Stevie Wonder
Prince
Willie Dixon



Singers:
Mahalia Jackson
Sarah Vaughn
Sam Cooke
Marvin Gaye
Luther Vandross
Whitney Houston
Aretha Franklin
Ray Charles

[DCL]

whenever thriller was

[L.Kizzle]

You already have James Brown on the list so need to list a hack who's copying him move for move. "Hold on to What You Got" is an absolute R&B classic & Tex has a few novelty stuff like Skinny Legs & Bump no more ,but top 10 all time performer?........
I'm surprised you don't know the history of JB and Tex.

This goes all the way back to 1956, when James Brown and hos Famous Flames were the newest artist at the King label. Joe Tex had actually been signed by Syd Nathan a whole year earlier.

Upon there first few meetings, that had a battle on a radio station and a dance-off at a local club, which Joe Tex reportedly won both. They were not only label mates, but became good friends at that time. They usually performed on the same bill, opening up for the likes of Little Richard and Little Willie John (another King label mate.) Tex was let go sometime in 1957, he left hit-list (though he said he wrote "Fever" for Little Willie John but had to sell it to pay his rent.) James was not far behind, he only had one his, his first "Please" and wasn't close to a hit since.

Around this time, JB started to be known more and more for his show ... Tex accused him of stealing his moves. Most notably his mic tricks. Years later in 1960, Joe finally had a chart hit (barley) and JB was becoming a top dog on the R&B charts. JB had a show in Texas in 1959, Joe's home. Joe went to visit him backstage, and he gave him a song he released that year which went no where, "Baby, You're Right." JB put his name on the credits, released it and was one of his biggest early hits.


A year later, JB is touring Texas again. Joe visits backstage again and was shocked to find his ex-wife in James dressing room. JB said he didn't know Joe and Bea Ford were married. JB even put her on his show, and she was featured on a charting single in 1960.


Joe heard rumblings of JB not treating Bea good, and it was true. Once JB was finished with her, he kicked her out the tour (added Yvonne Fair) and even sent a telegram to Joe telling him he could have her back. Joe wasn't to fond of that and made maybe the first diss record titled "You Keep Her" where he calls JB out by name.

Joe Tex: You Keep Her (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWLyOSzBWgc)

Someone had the great idea of putting Joe Tex in a homecoming bill for Jams Brown in Augusta, GA in 1963. When Joe hit the stage he let James have it, he did his whole act and for "Please" he purposely got himself tangled in a cape. JB didn't like that one bit. After the show he got word of where Joe was, down at a little bar where Otis Redding was performing. He let some rounds off at Joe.

Years passed by again, Joe had a hit on the charts. JB was huge in the late 60s, even owning a few radio stations. Tex accused JB of not spinning his records on various stations. Tex went as far as putting "The Original Soul Brother #1" on his tour bus.

More on Redding, I found a picture of his funeral where Tex is a Paul bearer and James is also there. It looks as if they lock eyes.

http://www.otisredding.fr/otis_f37.jpg

It was said the faulty plane Otis died in, he purchased from James Brown.

[gigantes]

sorry if this was posted before, but i just saw this... the story behind michael jackson's cool anti-gravity shoes invention:
http://izismile.com/2013/07/16/michael_jackson_created_these_cool_antigravity_sho es_5_pics_1_video.html


http://img.izismile.com//img/img6/20130716/1000/michael_jackson_created_these_cool_antigravity_sho es_01.jpg

[32jazz]

I'm surprised you don't know the history of JB and Tex.

This goes all the way back to 1956, when James Brown and hos Famous Flames were the newest artist at the King label. Joe Tex had actually been signed by Syd Nathan a whole year earlier.

Upon there first few meetings, that had a battle on a radio station and a dance-off at a local club, which Joe Tex reportedly won both. They were not only label mates, but became good friends at that time. They usually performed on the same bill, opening up for the likes of Little Richard and Little Willie John (another King label mate.) Tex was let go sometime in 1957, he left hit-list (though he said he wrote "Fever" for Little Willie John but had to sell it to pay his rent.) James was not far behind, he only had one his, his first "Please" and wasn't close to a hit since.

Around this time, JB started to be known more and more for his show ... Tex accused him of stealing his moves. Most notably his mic tricks. Years later in 1960, Joe finally had a chart hit (barley) and JB was becoming a top dog on the R&B charts. JB had a show in Texas in 1959, Joe's home. Joe went to visit him backstage, and he gave him a song he released that year which went no where, "Baby, You're Right." JB put his name on the credits, released it and was one of his biggest early hits.


A year later, JB is touring Texas again. Joe visits backstage again and was shocked to find his ex-wife in James dressing room. JB said he didn't know Joe and Bea Ford were married. JB even put her on his show, and she was featured on a charting single in 1960.


Joe heard rumblings of JB not treating Bea good, and it was true. Once JB was finished with her, he kicked her out the tour (added Yvonne Fair) and even sent a telegram to Joe telling him he could have her back. Joe wasn't to fond of that and made maybe the first diss record titled "You Keep Her" where he calls JB out by name.

Joe Tex: You Keep Her (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWLyOSzBWgc)

Someone had the great idea of putting Joe Tex in a homecoming bill for Jams Brown in Augusta, GA in 1963. When Joe hit the stage he let James have it, he did his whole act and for "Please" he purposely got himself tangled in a cape. JB didn't like that one bit. After the show he got word of where Joe was, down at a little bar where Otis Redding was performing. He let some rounds off at Joe.

Years passed by again, Joe had a hit on the charts. JB was huge in the late 60s, even owning a few radio stations. Tex accused JB of not spinning his records on various stations. Tex went as far as putting "The Original Soul Brother #1" on his tour bus.

More on Redding, I found a picture of his funeral where Tex is a Paul bearer and James is also there. It looks as if they lock eyes.

http://www.otisredding.fr/otis_f37.jpg

It was said the faulty plane Otis died in, he purchased from James Brown.

Oh my God:eek: Poor Bea Ford. I thought the viscious 'diss records' were a 'hip-hop' thing but, "You Keep Her" ,oh my god:oldlol:


Learn something new everyday & when I was younger I just remember Tex as a 'clown' with a nice hit "Hold on...Got" ,but I had never heard of that feud with JB. Shows you Kizzle how fame can cloud peoples perceptions of others as I thought Tex was sort of paying homage to JB in "..Gotcha/Skinny Legs.." & never thought much of it:confusedshrug: (They hated one another & Tex would be pissed at that categorization of him paying homage to JB)

And the "help me get un-tangled out of this cape" bit was hilarious. Heard JB pulled a gun on Tex because of it(actually fired it & it's believable considering JB anger issues later on).



Historically speaking I just don't Tex belongs in any 'all time' list & felt others more deserving like Hank Ballard, Louis Jordan, Jagger, Elvis,etc....to bump him from your top 10 list.

But a list needs variety instead of the same names over & over.:cheers:


As I got older though I have pursued (as far as books/reading) Jazz/Blues with R&B /Soul fading to nostalgia.

[Crystallas]

Pre-plastic surgery.

[32jazz]

sorry if this was posted before, but i just saw this... the story behind michael jackson's cool anti-gravity shoes invention:
http://izismile.com/2013/07/16/michael_jackson_created_these_cool_antigravity_sho es_5_pics_1_video.html


http://img.izismile.com//img/img6/20130716/1000/michael_jackson_created_these_cool_antigravity_sho es_01.jpg


I always knew it was wires or just a 'camera trick' on his Smooth Criminal video, but never knew he invented a shoe to do it 'live' until a few years ago( My interest in contemporary R&B/Pop etc.....was arrested back in the early 90's/late 80's.)

He should have done the lean alone & not with the back up dancers to increase the mystic a bit.

[Heilige]

I always knew it was wires or just a 'camera trick' on his Smooth Criminal video, but never knew he invented a shoe to do it 'live' until a few years ago( My interest in contemporary R&B/Pop etc.....was arrested back in the early 90's/late 80's.)

He should have done the lean alone & not with the back up dancers to increase the mystic a bit.



This is sort of off topic, but do you feel Michael Jackson's father is one of the main reasons for Michael Jackson's success, or could Michael have done it without him? I was reading some stuff on Joe Jackson and he sounded like a tyrant; don't know it is is true or not though.

[32jazz]

This is sort of off topic, but do you feel Michael Jackson's father is one of the main reasons for Michael Jackson's success, or could Michael have done it without him? I was reading some stuff on Joe Jackson and he sounded like a tyrant; don't know it is is true or not though.

Both MJ & the media have been unfair to Joe & I certainly don't believe he becomes the polished entertainer he was without him,certainly not that early in life(He was already a seasoned veteran at 10 when arriving at Motown because of Joe.).

Could the Brothers have formed their own group(teens do it all the time) & been 'discovered' by someone? Sure , but without Joe's encouragement,tough discipline they may have become disinterested.

Joe was a tough disciplinarian ,but corporal punishment wasn't unsusual for kids then & Joe growing up in the 20's/30's thought that was the way you deal with kids(He loved hid kids & wasn't 'abusive' in his mind he just felt that's how he was raised & how his kids should be).
Mike is the only one to seem to have enduring issues with it(which is understandable), but the Brothers are more empathetic of Joe's parenting skills based upon his own tough upbringing.
Many great artists (JB, Prince,etc)make it without being egged onto a stage & actual tours at 6 years old & others with stage parents fizzle out.


But I can confidently say without Joe's influence there is no "Little Mike" especially nor the MJ we know today.

[Heilige]

Both MJ & the media have been unfair to Joe & I certainly don't believe he becomes the polished entertainer he was without him,certainly not that early in life(He was already a seasoned veteran at 10 when arriving at Motown because of Joe.).

Could the Brothers have formed their own group(teens do it all the time) & been 'discovered' by someone? Sure , but without Joe's encouragement,tough discipline they may have become disinterested.

Joe was a tough disciplinarian ,but corporal punishment wasn't unsusual for kids then & Joe growing up in the 20's/30's thought that was the way you deal with kids(He loved hid kids & wasn't 'abusive' in his mind he just felt that's how he was raised & how his kids should be).
Mike is the only one to seem to have enduring issues with it(which is understandable), but the Brothers are more empathetic of Joe's parenting skills based upon his own tough upbringing.
Many great artists (JB, Prince,etc)make it without being egged onto a stage & actual tours at 6 years old & others with stage parents fizzle out.


But I can confidently say without Joe's influence there is no "Little Mike" especially nor the MJ we know today.



You make some good points man!

I sent you a PM.

[Bigsmoke]

****** used to make fun of me when i had Thiller in my CD player when i was in high school.... aint that some shit.

[Fresh Kid]

Michael Jackson was the best stage performer of all time, I remember when I was a little kid seeing his concerts on t.v and seeing tons of white people crying, falling out and layed out on stretchers. Nobody had that effect in music.

[L.Kizzle]

Oh my God:eek: Poor Bea Ford. I thought the viscious 'diss records' were a 'hip-hop' thing but, "You Keep Her" ,oh my god:oldlol:


Learn something new everyday & when I was younger I just remember Tex as a 'clown' with a nice hit "Hold on...Got" ,but I had never heard of that feud with JB. Shows you Kizzle how fame can cloud peoples perceptions of others as I thought Tex was sort of paying homage to JB in "..Gotcha/Skinny Legs.." & never thought much of it:confusedshrug: (They hated one another & Tex would be pissed at that categorization of him paying homage to JB)

And the "help me get un-tangled out of this cape" bit was hilarious. Heard JB pulled a gun on Tex because of it(actually fired it & it's believable considering JB anger issues later on).



Historically speaking I just don't Tex belongs in any 'all time' list & felt others more deserving like Hank Ballard, Louis Jordan, Jagger, Elvis,etc....to bump him from your top 10 list.

But a list needs variety instead of the same names over & over.:cheers:


As I got older though I have pursued (as far as books/reading) Jazz/Blues with R&B /Soul fading to nostalgia.
Nice performance of Joe Tex.

Joe Tex 1965 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6vy9aILFBo)

There was also a performance from 1965 where he covers Ray Charles "I Got A Woman" where he does killer mic work, but they took it down.

[32jazz]

Nice performance of Joe Tex.

Joe Tex 1965 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6vy9aILFBo)

There was also a performance from 1965 where he covers Ray Charles "I Got A Woman" where he does killer mic work, but they took it down.

Good stuff Kizzle. I may have to rethink the 'hack' remark because it's obvious the guy is talented & sometimes with murky pasts like that it's hard to figure out who is copying from whom sometimes.

I had my own limited memories of Tex from my youth(family weren't fans) & vaguely remembering his real classics & big hits.

[32jazz]

****** used to make fun of me when i had Thiller in my CD player when i was in high school.... aint that some shit.

Giving away your age because when Thriller was out it was cassettes & Vinyl for the most part. If you had "Thriller" you were "THE" shit-

[L.Kizzle]

Good stuff Kizzle. I may have to rethink the 'hack' remark because it's obvious the guy is talented & sometimes with murky pasts like that it's hard to figure out who is copying from whom sometimes.

I had my own limited memories of Tex from my youth(family weren't fans) & vaguely remembering his real classics & big hits.
Joe Tex is one of the more criminally underrated/respected/forgot about artist (also Johnnie Taylor, but that's another story.) I rank him very high in the southern soul department. I only rank JB and Redding over him in the 60s' (and maybe Wilson Pickett.)

Tex had more hits than the likes of Sam & Dave and Solomon Burke. Both fizzled out in the late 60s. Percy Sledge is in the freaking Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and Joe isn't ...

http://www.bsnpubs.com/florida/dial/dial8106.jpg

Here are some top notch Joe Tex songs.


Pneumonia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5LWmy5ZPmc) (1955. claimed he wrote Fever and sold it to pay his rent. This is his answer version.)
She's Mine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcQNoNV7880) 1956
Wicked Woman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMq4jep5VLk) (1960. Jerry Butler did a cover version)
Meet Me In Church (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ExzWX95QPM) (1962. Solomon Burke did a cover version)
Say Thank You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9odf5mWGPA) (1963. Beautiful tune, if Ray Charles sung this would be a #1 hit.)
Looking For My Pig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waK53_oZwsM) 1964
I Had a Good Home (But I Left) Parts 1 and 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FypGF2p9yP0) 1964
One Monkey Don't Stop No Show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tQ9_PbuxXE) (1965. The Animals did a great cover of this tune.)
I'm Not Going To Work Today (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXN3p1iBlk) (1965. Clyde McPhatter cover this tune)
The Love You Save (May Be Your Own) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szEAqKbAGz4) (LIVE 1966. You've probably heard this one before)
You Better Believe It Baby (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXfAhpCBj2o) 1966
Close The Door (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS35d9N1D0E) 1966
Watch The One (That Brings The Bad News) 1967 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDlghYjhK5M)
Wooden Spoon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6StQwwBKPsU) 1968
I'll Never Do You Wrong (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA0dBdgcxkE) 1968 (Classic!)
Baby, Be Good (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adsselW3s34) 1969
Keep The One You Got (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuUUP6CvU6M) 1969 (Classic!)
You're Right, Ray Charles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTnG2duZ_rk) (1970. Buddy Miles covers this tunes and just titled it simply (JOE TEX.)
I'll Never Fall In Love Again (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2-v7_kjZ8c) (1970. Contrary to popular belief, it was Joe not Isaac Hayes or even James Brown who was the first to talk over a track for long periods of times. He did it was back in 1960 with an Etta James cover I didn't add, but I might as well ...All I Could Do Was Cry (Parts 1 and 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrbFaFO_jJY) this was actually his first charting single in 1960, number 102 on the pop charts.)
The Only Way I Know To Love (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgG5FjU8F5Y) 1970
You Said a Bad Word (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWdq9ETs6Fw) 1972


The JOE TEX Band 1968
Chocolate Cherry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95VUL7YfbhA)
Betwixt and Between (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo5SbJFOPjE)


and the super group !!! ...
The SOUL CLAN: Joe Tex Solomon Burke Ben E. King Arthur Conley Don Covay
Soul Meeting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlbGCAbaUIU)
That's How I Feel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9o3Wg_-9to)

[32jazz]

Joe Tex is one of the more criminally underrated/respected/forgot about artist (also Johnnie Taylor, but that's another story.) I rank him very high in the southern soul department. I only rank JB and Redding over him in the 60s' (and maybe Wilson Pickett.)

Tex had more hits than the likes of Sam & Dave and Solomon Burke. Both fizzled out in the late 60s. Percy Sledge is in the freaking Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and Joe isn't ...

http://www.bsnpubs.com/florida/dial/dial8106.jpg

Here are some top notch Joe Tex songs.


Pneumonia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5LWmy5ZPmc) (1955. claimed he wrote Fever and sold it to pay his rent. This is his answer version.)
She's Mine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcQNoNV7880) 1956
Wicked Woman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMq4jep5VLk) (1960. Jerry Butler did a cover version)
Meet Me In Church (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ExzWX95QPM) (1962. Solomon Burke did a cover version)
Say Thank You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9odf5mWGPA) (1963. Beautiful tune, if Ray Charles sung this would be a #1 hit.)
Looking For My Pig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waK53_oZwsM) 1964
I Had a Good Home (But I Left) Parts 1 and 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FypGF2p9yP0) 1964
One Monkey Don't Stop No Show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tQ9_PbuxXE) (1965. The Animals did a great cover of this tune.)
I'm Not Going To Work Today (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXN3p1iBlk) (1965. Clyde McPhatter cover this tune)
The Love You Save (May Be Your Own) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szEAqKbAGz4) (LIVE 1966. You've probably heard this one before)
You Better Believe It Baby (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXfAhpCBj2o) 1966
Close The Door (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS35d9N1D0E) 1966
Watch The One (That Brings The Bad News) 1967 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDlghYjhK5M)
Wooden Spoon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6StQwwBKPsU) 1968
I'll Never Do You Wrong (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA0dBdgcxkE) 1968 (Classic!)
Baby, Be Good (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adsselW3s34) 1969
Keep The One You Got (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuUUP6CvU6M) 1969 (Classic!)
You're Right, Ray Charles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTnG2duZ_rk) (1970. Buddy Miles covers this tunes and just titled it simply (JOE TEX.)
I'll Never Fall In Love Again (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2-v7_kjZ8c) (1970. Contrary to popular belief, it was Joe not Isaac Hayes or even James Brown who was the first to talk over a track for long periods of times. He did it was back in 1960 with an Etta James cover I didn't add, but I might as well ...All I Could Do Was Cry (Parts 1 and 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrbFaFO_jJY) this was actually his first charting single in 1960, number 102 on the pop charts.)
The Only Way I Know To Love (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgG5FjU8F5Y) 1970
You Said a Bad Word (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWdq9ETs6Fw) 1972


The JOE TEX Band 1968
Chocolate Cherry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95VUL7YfbhA)
Betwixt and Between (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo5SbJFOPjE)


and the super group !!! ...
The SOUL CLAN: Joe Tex Solomon Burke Ben E. King Arthur Conley Don Covay
Soul Meeting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlbGCAbaUIU)
That's How I Feel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9o3Wg_-9to)

Damn you Kizzle.Got lost over half an hour listening to Joe Tex.


Didn't realize how long he was at it either besides "Hold on...", "I want to do everything..." MOST of those tunes were obscure to me.

It IS astounding that Sledge's legend was made on a single record(although I really like "It Tears me up") & Johnny Taylor is under appreciated outside of Southern Black audiences. It seems if you don't have that hit or hits that really resonate with Rock or Pop(crossover) that will be your fate.


Johnny Taylor, O.V. Wright,Tyrone Davis,Joe Simon,etc..& many of those Southern Soul/ Blues Artists fall into that category.


Tyrone Davis lamented this fact & asked Buddy Guy for advice on how to make this crossover, but unlike Guy(a guitar hero to Blues Rockers) Davis , Taylor, Wright,etc... Were just singers that didn't resonate or interest Rock or Pop audiences. (With exceptions like Hayes, whom I still don't get :confusedshrug: , Al Green,etc....)


Kizzle you seem to be too well versed on R&B to ask ,but are you familiar with/ like New Orleans artists like Lee Dorsey, Neville Brothers,Meters,Huey Piano Smith, Professor Longhair, K-Doe, Earl King,Dr John,Chris Kenner,Toussaint,etc....? Being from South Louisiana I was teethed on a lot of that.

[L.Kizzle]

Damn you Kizzle.Got lost over half an hour listening to Joe Tex.


Didn't realize how long he was at it either besides "Hold on...", "I want to do everything..." MOST of those tunes were obscure to me.

It IS astounding that Sledge's legend was made on a single record(although I really like "It Tears me up") & Johnny Taylor is under appreciated outside of Southern Black audiences. It seems if you don't have that hit or hits that really resonate with Rock or Pop(crossover) that will be your fate.


Johnny Taylor, O.V. Wright,Tyrone Davis,Joe Simon,etc..& many of those Southern Soul/ Blues Artists fall into that category.


Tyrone Davis lamented this fact & asked Buddy Guy for advice on how to make this crossover, but unlike Guy(a guitar hero to Blues Rockers) Davis , Taylor, Wright,etc... Were just singers that didn't resonate or interest Rock or Pop audiences. (With exceptions like Hayes, whom I still don't get :confusedshrug: , Al Green,etc....)


Kizzle you seem to be too well versed on R&B to ask ,but are you familiar with/ like New Orleans artists like Lee Dorsey, Neville Brothers,Meters,Huey Piano Smith, Professor Longhair, K-Doe, Earl King,Dr John,Chris Kenner,Toussaint,etc....? Being from South Louisiana I was teethed on a lot of that.
Yes, I'm familiar with that scene. I was actually listening to Ernie K-Doe last night. Joe actually taught Ernie dance moves, along with the famed mic tricks. He also wrote a bunch of tunes for him. One, was the follow-up "Mother In-Law" called "Get Out of My House."

Ernie K-Doe: Get Out of My House (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VziT_beTuvw)

Earl King, should be a part of the Three Kings of Blues along with BB, Albert and Freddie.

Allen Toussaint played organ on this early Joe Tex tune and Huey Smith drums.
Boys Will Be Boys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjS0QrKtOyk)

[32jazz]

Yes, I'm familiar with that scene. I was actually listening to Ernie K-Doe last night. Joe actually taught Ernie dance moves, along with the famed mic tricks. He also wrote a bunch of tunes for him. One, was the follow-up "Mother In-Law" called "Get Out of My House."

Ernie K-Doe: Get Out of My House (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VziT_beTuvw)

Earl King, should be a part of the Three Kings of Blues along with BB, Albert and Freddie.

Allen Toussaint played organ on this early Joe Tex tune and Huey Smith drums.
Boys Will Be Boys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjS0QrKtOyk)


Earl King is under appreciated & unusual in New Orleans music ,along with Guitar Slim , in that we don't have a real strong tradition of electric Blues guitarists.

No need to tell you that one either blew a horn(too many Jazzmen to name) or played the Piano(Dr John,Fess,Fats,Eddie Bo,Toussaint,Henry Butler,so on,Etc,.........

"Boys.." really does sound different from the typical Joe Tex soul & you can hear that New Orleans 'rhumba' or carribean type rhythm or feel . Like in Big Chief , Go to the Mardi Gras,etc..........

I'll keep an eye open for your R&B posts.:cheers:

[L.Kizzle]

Earl King is under appreciated & unusual in New Orleans music ,along with Guitar Slim , in that we don't have a real strong tradition of electric Blues guitarists.

No need to tell you that one either blew a horn(too many Jazzmen to name) or played the Piano(Dr John,Fess,Fats,Eddie Bo,Toussaint,Henry Butler,so on,Etc,.........

"Boys.." really does sound different from the typical Joe Tex soul & you can hear that New Orleans 'rhumba' or carribean type rhythm or feel . Like in Big Chief , Go to the Mardi Gras,etc..........

I'll keep an eye open for your R&B posts.:cheers:
Some other noteworthy bookmarks about Joe Tex.

He was damn near signed to Motown Records and was actually signed to Chess Records for a short time.

He signed with Anna Records sometime in 1960, founded and named after Berry Gordy's sister (who'd go on to merry Marvin Gaye.) On that label included Marvin Gay (as a session drummer,) Lamont Dozier (as an artist named Lamont Anthony), Johnny Bristol and the Voice Masters which included a young David Ruffin. At that time, that label had nothing to do with Motown Records.

Anna and all it's artist were absorbed into Motown sometime in 1961 after only charting a Joe Tex single under the Pop 100. Joe released the last single ever for Anna Records, so not sure why he never ended up with Motown, probably because he got an offer for more money ...

Shortly after, he ended up on Dial Records in 1961...

But while at Dial, still basically hit-less, he signed with Checker Records, a Chess Subsidiary in 1963 and released 2 singles in 63 and 64.


Get Closer Together (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVS-zOz3wDE)