the reason kobes peak doesn't wow people is because he's been on one ever since 2001

[kennethgriffin]

every other legend has those few years where they get over their career average and reach around 27-28ppg or higher, rarely even 30+ and it lasts for a short time. they might hit a 1st team all nba streak thatel last for a few years. if lucky 4-5 years

this is a regular legends peak..


the reason people say kobes peak was never as shocking is because kobes been on that peak streak for 13 straight years



2001 ( 13 years ago )
http://i43.tinypic.com/k3xjzq.png

28.5ppg, 5.9reb, 5.0ast, 46.4fg% regular season

29.4ppg, 7.3reb, 6.1ast, 46.9fg% playoffs

NBA CHAMPION





13 years later ( age 34 )




http://i41.tinypic.com/dninoz.jpg

27.3ppg, 5.6reb, 6.0ast, 46.3fg%

1st team all nba




kobe never had a 1-2-3 year absolute prime like shaq... where before shaqs 2000 season he was raw and uninspired, lazy and 1 dimensional since 1992. then after 2002 he was lazy, fat, and mostly a 2nd banana


thats why shaq peak is so amazing. it was unexpected. it was out of the ordinary


but with kobe. this is an ongoing thing for 13 years now

11 1st team all nba's during that time. 1 time not making it due to injury


see for a guy like larry bird. he had a 4 year run between 85,86,87,88 where he scored like kobe has been for the last 13 years

he never came close to that level before or after. thats a regular legends peak


kobes never ends

[EnoughSaid]

This doesn't excuse the fact that Kobe's peak isn't as great as the other legends.

[Magic 32]

every other legend has those few years where they get over their career average and reach around 27-28ppg or higher, rarely even 30+ and it lasts for a short time. they might hit a 1st team all nba streak thatel last for a few years. if lucky 4-5 years

this is a regular legends peak..


the reason people say kobes peak was never as shocking is because kobes been on that peak streak for 13 straight years


http://i43.tinypic.com/k3xjzq.png

28.5ppg, 5.9reb, 5.0ast, 46.4fg% regular season

29.4ppg, 7.3reb, 6.1ast, 46.9fg% playoffs

NBA CHAMPION





13 years later ( age 34 )




http://i41.tinypic.com/dninoz.jpg

27.3ppg, 5.6reb, 6.0ast, 46.3fg%

1st team all nba




kobe never had a 1-2-3 year absolute prime like shaq... where before shaqs 2000 season he was raw and uninspired, lazy and 1 dimensional since 1992. then after 2002 he was lazy, fat, and mostly a 2nd banana


thats why shaq peak is so amazing. it was unexpected. it was out of the ordinary


but with kobe. this is an ongoing thing for 13 years now

11 1st team all nba's during that time. 1 time not making it due to injury


see for a guy like larry bird. he had a 4 year run between 85,86,87,88 where he scored like kobe has been for the last 13 years

he never came close to that level before or after. thats a regular legends peak


kobes never ends

Kobe's peak was 06-08.

2001 was kobe first prime year however.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Kobe's career has no peak it's more like a low gently rising hill beneath the summits that are KAJ peak, Jordan peak, and the mother of mountains shaq peak

[kennethgriffin]

This doesn't excuse the fact that Kobe's peak isn't as great as the other legends.


most legends dream to reach a 3-4 year span thats on the level as kobe from 2001-2013


if any other guy had a 3-4 year run of 28ppg, 6reb, 5ast, 1st team all nba

that would be a great accomplishment for them

thats kobes average and norm from 2001 till 2013

:roll: :cheers: :lol

[branslowski]

At the end of the day, if most put their hate for Kobe aside, they'll see that there has never been a player as consistently dominant as Kobe over a 10+ year stretch.

[EnoughSaid]

At the end of the day, if most put their hate for Kobe aside, they'll see that there has never been a player as consistently dominant as Kobe over a 10+ year stretch.

How many of those years was Kobe truly the best player in the league?

[KG215]

No, Kobe's had some noticeable dips in some seasons since 2001, and he's had a pretty obvious peak period from about 2006-2009.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe's peak was 06-08.

2001 was kobe first prime year however.


peak stats wise. but he only averaged 35ppg cause he played with kwame and smush


kobe averaged 29ppg playing with shaq who also averaged 29ppg

kobe averaged 27ppg playing with pau and howard who combined averaged around 38ppg

if those guys were all kwames kobe woulda averaged 35ppg from 2001 till 2013



peak stats...


kobes changed his game since then. but hes always been an elite all nba top 2-3 player for the last 13 years ( only times he wasnt the absolute best player was during tims prime at a young age for kobe. and during lebrons prime at an old age for kobe. )

[plowking]

How come you didn't leave after you made that fail thread during game 6 of the NBA finals? Laughing at Lebron and the Heat, then Lebron James and Ray Allen make those huge shots, and your thread looks stupid.

I wouldn't have come back to this forum after looking as stupid as you did that day. But then again, you do it to yourself often.

[kennethgriffin]

No, Kobe's had some noticeable dips in some seasons since 2001, and he's had a pretty obvious peak period from about 2006-2009.

only dips were due to injury

minor dip in 2004,2005 from knee/shoulder

minor dip in 2012 from knee

still a 1st team all nba player in 2 of those years. missed too many games in 2005 ( not enough wins either )

[kennethgriffin]

How come you didn't leave after you made that fail thread during game 6 of the NBA finals? Laughing at Lebron and the Heat, then Lebron James and Ray Allen make those huge shots, and your thread looks stupid.

I wouldn't have come back to this forum after looking as stupid as you did that day. But then again, you do it to yourself often.


because the no calls on ginobili and green and ray allen saving lebrons career

its not like lebron redeemed himself

and don't tell me those game 7 wide open dared shots are anything impressive

nobody within 5 feet of him all game...

pop basically handed him the trophy

[Kblaze8855]

Shaq was player of the week his first week in the league and put up 27/14 on 64% shooting by his third month. He had 29/15, 21/19/9 blocks, 24/18/5, 46/21/5 block, 28/14/5, and 30/19 in 6 straight games as a rookie.


In his first 10 games in his season season he put up:


42/12
36/7/5
37/9/4
19/8(massive blowout didnt play much)
21/7/4/4
23/10/5
25/13
41/10
24/28/15 blocks
28/7

Shaq was a 29/13/3 block 60% shooting player his second season. At age 21.

Year 3 he leads the league in scoring and goes to the finals, year 4 he wins 60 games, year 5 its 56, year 7 its 61 and by then its 99 and hes already had a legit HOF career and been named top 50 all time.

This is before 2000.

But that doesnt stand up to Kobes peak...during which he was either #2 to Shaq for years, losing in the first round or missing the playoffs for 4 years, or winning.....in less impressive fashion than Shaq did in his prime.

Shaq was legit HOF level his first week in the league and was MVP runner up 13 years later. Shaq could easily be said to have a 12 or so year prime. Just so happens his peak was on a level its arguable only 1-2 people ever reached so it stands out.

Shaqs 99-02 would stand out in the career of anyone who ever played.

That he wasnt that for 15 years isnt a negative. It means he isnt god.

Kobe wasnt what Shaq was....ever. Which is why his peak is less impressive.

Its impressive. It just isnt shaq.

Almost nobody is Shaq at his peak. And truth is...you can argue for removing that "Almost".

[Unbiased_one]

most legends dream to reach a 3-4 year span thats on the level as kobe from 2001-2013




thats kobes average and norm from 2001 till 2013

:roll: :cheers: :lol

You are probably the most delusional person ever...even worse that tonymontana (close though)

[kennethgriffin]

How many of those years was Kobe truly the best player in the league?

depending on if you love or hate kobe. kobes been the best player or arguably the best player along with someone else quite a few times


2001 ( espn said he was the best player. magazine pic in 1st post )
2002 ( top 3 with shaq,duncan )
2003 ( arguable with duncan )
2004 ( injured, but still 1st team all nba )
2005 ( injured )
2006 ( best player by far )
2007 ( best player by far )
2008 ( mvp, arguable with lebron )
2009 ( finals mvp, arguable with lebron )
2010 ( finals mvp, arguable with lebron )
2011 ( top 3 )
2012 ( injured, but still 1st team all nba )
2013 ( top 3 )


kobes been the best or argued as the best 7 times

if your a kobe fan without objectivity. you'l say every year since 2001 till 2010

if your a kobe hater without objectivity. you'l say hes never been the best player


but its obvious with all the great legends and coaches saying kobe was the best player for a good 5-7 years and all the media outlets voting him player of the decade... its obvious anyone with a brain can admit he was the best player atleast for some amount of time.

[KG215]

2001 (espn said he was the best player. magazine pic in 1st post)
:oldlol:

[KG215]

Griff, you realize, if you really wanted to, you could do this for almost every other all-time top 10 great. Just because they had a 3-4 year stretch where they were noticeable better doesn't mean they didn't have another 7-10 seasons where they were at or above Kobe's level from 2001-2013.

Most top 10-15 players all-time have about a decade's worth of elite seasons.

[EnoughSaid]

I'll say he was the best player FOR SURE in 2006 and 2007. 2008 and 2009 are the other arguable years.

[kennethgriffin]

Shaq was player of the week his first week in the league and put up 27/14 on 64% shooting by his third month. He had 29/15, 21/19/9 blocks, 24/18/5, 46/21/5 block, 28/14/5, and 30/19 in 6 straight games as a rookie.


In his first 10 games in his season season he put up:


42/12
36/7/5
37/9/4
19/8(massive blowout didnt play much)
21/7/4/4
23/10/5
25/13
41/10
24/28/15 blocks
28/7

Shaq was a 29/13/3 block 60% shooting player his second season. At age 21.

Year 3 he leads the league in scoring and goes to the finals, year 4 he wins 60 games, year 5 its 56, year 7 its 61 and by then its 99 and hes already had a legit HOF career and been named top 50 all time.

This is before 2000.

But that doesnt stand up to Kobes peak...during which he was either #2 to Shaq for years, losing in the first round or missing the playoffs for 4 years, or winning.....in less impressive fashion than Shaq did in his prime.

Shaq was legit HOF level his first week in the league and was MVP runner up 13 years later. Shaq could easily be said to have a 12 or so year prime. Just so happens his peak was on a level its arguable only 1-2 people ever reached so it stands out.

Shaqs 99-02 would stand out in the career of anyone who ever played.

That he wasnt that for 15 years isnt a negative. It means he isnt god.

Kobe wasnt what Shaq was....ever. Which is why his peak is less impressive.

Its impressive. It just isnt shaq.

Almost nobody is Shaq at his peak. And truth is...you can argue for removing that "Almost".

yea but put kobe with a semi decent back up big on the 1995 orlando magic and they win a game vs houston in those finals

stats aint everything. allot of a player has to do with mentality. shaq wasnt all there till around 2000.

he was a mentality fragile weak minded fool before that. let rodman eat him up inside

kobes been a mentally tough assassin since he was 21 years old

kobes always been the better basketball player. shaq just had some better per and more attractive stat sheets for a while

[#number6ix#]

Shaq was player of the week his first week in the league and put up 27/14 on 64% shooting by his third month. He had 29/15, 21/19/9 blocks, 24/18/5, 46/21/5 block, 28/14/5, and 30/19 in 6 straight games as a rookie.


In his first 10 games in his season season he put up:


42/12
36/7/5
37/9/4
19/8(massive blowout didnt play much)
21/7/4/4
23/10/5
25/13
41/10
24/28/15 blocks
28/7

Shaq was a 29/13/3 block 60% shooting player his second season. At age 21.

Year 3 he leads the league in scoring and goes to the finals, year 4 he wins 60 games, year 5 its 56, year 7 its 61 and by then its 99 and hes already had a legit HOF career and been named top 50 all time.

This is before 2000.

But that doesnt stand up to Kobes peak...during which he was either #2 to Shaq for years, losing in the first round or missing the playoffs for 4 years, or winning.....in less impressive fashion than Shaq did in his prime.

Shaq was legit HOF level his first week in the league and was MVP runner up 13 years later. Shaq could easily be said to have a 12 or so year prime. Just so happens his peak was on a level its arguable only 1-2 people ever reached so it stands out.

Shaqs 99-02 would stand out in the career of anyone who ever played.

That he wasnt that for 15 years isnt a negative. It means he isnt god.

Kobe wasnt what Shaq was....ever. Which is why his peak is less impressive.

Its impressive. It just isnt shaq.

Almost nobody is Shaq at his peak. And truth is...you can argue for removing that "Almost".
Kblaze with that pure fire... I had no idea shaq was destroying the league like that from day 1

[Unbiased_one]

kobes always been the better basketball player.

:lol

Even by your standards this is retarded. Shaq is the best peak player ever. That stats can't tell you the number of times teams tripled him and he still dominated them.

[kennethgriffin]

Griff, you realize, if you really wanted to, you could do this for almost every other all-time top 10 great. Just because they had a 3-4 year stretch where they were noticeable better doesn't mean they didn't have another 7-10 seasons where they were at or above Kobe's level from 2001-2013.

Most top 10-15 players all-time have about a decade's worth of elite seasons.


nobodies ever had a career like kobes

how can you do it with 9 other guys?

kobes 17th year is the same as when he was 22 years old. if not better with more recognition. name another guy like that who started his peak 4ppg over his career average. then 13 years later is still 3ppg over his career average and 1st team all nba

[kennethgriffin]

:lol

Even by your standards this is retarded. Shaq is the best peak player ever. That stats can't tell you the number of times teams tripled him and he still dominated them.


shaq needs a hall of fame legendary clutch peak 2 way player to win

all kobe needs is a top 90-100 all time player bench warmer allstar 3rd team all nba spanish softy to win

[Scholar]

OP, I'd like to think you got the idea for this thread from my post in that BOAT vs GOAT thread. I was planning on making a thread like this after the idiot in the other thread claimed Kobe had longevity but no peak. :facepalm

Good post, though. It's 100% accurate. Kobe has the greatest, longest peak of any athlete not named Michael Jordan. And there's no shame in being 2nd to MJ.

[#number6ix#]

yea but put kobe with a semi decent back up big on the 1995 orlando magic and they win a game vs houston in those finals

stats aint everything. allot of a player has to do with mentality. shaq wasnt all there till around 2000.

he was a mentality fragile weak minded fool before that. let rodman eat him up inside

kobes been a mentally tough assassin since he was 21 years old

kobes always been the better basketball player. shaq just had some better per and more attractive stat sheets for a while
Come on bro... Give props when they're due Shaqs run is just as or more impressive than Kobe's

[Magic 32]

I'll say he was the best player FOR SURE in 2006 and 2007. 2008 and 2009 are the other arguable years.

I think it's a wash between Kobe and Lebron in 09.

Kobe's finger injury in Nov/Dec of 2008 took away his handling and made him less aggressive on defense.

2008 is not close in my book.

http://oi42.tinypic.com/96kbx2.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

Kblaze with that pure fire... I had no idea shaq was destroying the league like that from day 1

people who never watched him play and just look at numbers will be blinded. if shaq was really that dominant he woulda won an mvp or a finals game before getting kobe at an all nba 2 way level hitting all his clutch shots and free throws for him


fact is. if you watched shaq back in the day. all he had was 1 post move. he was a prime dwight howard type. very raw... he dunked allot of his points

when he faced teams with actual coaches and real defense or a guy who could hold him and force him to do something else. the magic lost. and lost pathetically

[KG215]

nobodies ever had a career like kobes

how can you do it with 9 other guys?

kobes 17th year is the same as when he was 22 years old. if not better with more recognition. name another guy like that who started his peak 4ppg over his career average. then 13 years later is still 3ppg over his career average and 1st team all nba
So, in other words, cherry pick the stat that helps your argument and use it? Did you forget that due to not being ready and not getting PT, Kobe's career scoring average was dragged down by his first few years in the league? I mean you sure love to use that in "Kobe would've averaged 30 PPG for his career if...." arguments where you want to take away those seasons. But since it makes your argument look better in this case, you want to include them? How about some consistency?

Look, I admit Kobe's longevity has been incredible. I've never tried to deny it. But you act like he's the first player in NBA history to have a 10+ year stertch where they were an elite player.

[KG215]

I think it's a wash between Kobe and Lebron in 09.

Kobe's finger injury in Nov/Dec of 2008 took away his handling and made him less aggressive on defense.

2008 is not close in my book.

http://oi42.tinypic.com/96kbx2.jpg
If we're comparing it to 2005-2007 Kobe was a better defensive player in 2008. NOt sure how you can say it's not close. Plenty of people have 2008 as Kobe's peak. 2006 and 2003 have arguments, too if it's one season peaks.

[Unbiased_one]

people who never watched him play and just look at numbers will be blinded. if shaq was really that dominant he woulda won an mvp or a finals game before getting kobe at an all nba 2 way level hitting all his clutch shots and free throws for him


fact is. if you watched shaq back in the day. all he had was 1 post move. he was a prime dwight howard type. very raw... he dunked allot of his points

when he faced teams with actual coaches and real defense or a guy who could hold him and force him to do something else. the magic lost. and lost pathetically

Actually, just looking at the numbers doesn't really give you any idea of just how dominant shaq was. He was doubled for most of his first decade in the league, if not tripled. He was the purest embodiment of dominance that any American sport has seen recently outside of a massively juiced up bonds.

[Magic 32]

If we're comparing it to 2005-2007 Kobe was a better defensive player in 2008. NOt sure how you can say it's not close. Plenty of people have 2008 as Kobe's peak. 2006 and 2003 have arguments, too if it's one season peaks.

Yes, Kobe was a better defensive player in 2008. The injury happen at the beginning of the 08-09 season (Nov/Dec).

And I mean that Lebron vs Kobe in 2008 was not close (Kobe was clearly better).

Lebron was better in 07 than in 08.

[Kblaze8855]

GM surveys



After 04-05:

Tim Duncan

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
Tim Duncan (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/index.html), San Antonio
40.0%
LeBron James (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lebron_james/index.html), Cleveland
36.0%
Shaquille O'Neal (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shaquille_oneal/index.html), Miami
8.0%
Amare Stoudemire (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/amare_stoudemire/index.html), Phoenix
8.0%
Others receiving votes: Kevin Garnett (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kevin_garnett/index.html), Minnesota, Dwyane Wade (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwyane_wade/index.html), Miami



Who is the best shooting guard in the NBA?
Kobe Bryant (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/index.html), Los Angeles Lakers
56.0%
Dwyane Wade (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwyane_wade/index.html), Miami
28.0%
Ray Allen (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ray_allen/index.html), Seattle
8.0%
Others receiving votes: LeBron James (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lebron_james/index.html), Cleveland, Tracy McGrady (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tracy_mcgrady/index.html), Houston


After 05-06:

Kobe Bryant

Who is the best shooting guard in the NBA?
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers
71.4%
Dwyane Wade, Miami
21.4%
Tracy McGrady, Houston
3.6%
Michael Redd, Milwaukee
3.6%


If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
LeBron James (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lebron_james/index.html), Cleveland
71.4%
Dwyane Wade (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwyane_wade/index.html), Miami
10.7%
Others receiving votes: Kobe Bryant (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/index.html), L.A. Lakers, Tim Duncan (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/index.html), San Antonio, Dwight Howard (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwight_howard/index.html), Orlando




After 07:


If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?1.LeBron James (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lebron_james/index.html), Cleveland59.3%2.Dwight Howard (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwight_howard/index.html), Orlando25.9%3.Kobe Bryant (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/index.html), L.A. Lakers11.1%Tim Duncan (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/index.html), San Antonio11.1%5.Dirk Nowitzki (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dirk_nowitzki/index.html), Dallas3.7%Last year's pick: LeBron James



Kobe Bryant

Who is the best shooting guard in the NBA? 1.Kobe Bryant (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/index.html), L.A. Lakers92.6%2.Ray Allen (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ray_allen/index.html), Boston3.7%Dwyane Wade (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwyane_wade/index.html), Miami3.7%Last year's pick: Kobe Bryant





The idea that he was the unquestioned best those years is just not true. He wasnt even the unquestioned best 2 guard.

I think he should have been in 2 of those years....but it is what it is.

[Unbiased_one]

nobodies ever had a career like kobes

how can you do it with 9 other guys?

kobes 17th year is the same as when he was 22 years old. if not better with more recognition. name another guy like that who started his peak 4ppg over his career average. then 13 years later is still 3ppg over his career average and 1st team all nba

Over the first 9 years of lebron's career, including all of his learning curve, he has just as good if not better numbers as Kobe during his lengthy prime. And lebron isn't even the GOAT. So obviously there are other players who have had lengthy periods like Kobe's.

[Marchesk]

Kobe's career has no peak it's more like a low gently rising hill beneath the summits that are KAJ peak, Jordan peak, and the mother of mountains shaq peak

No, the Shaq peak is actually lower than the HOAT peak in Wilt, who had a 31.7 PER over three consecutive years, where his blocks and steals weren't recorded. So it's more like 33.

[KG215]

No, the Shaq peak is actually lower than the HOAT peak in Wilt, who had a 31.7 PER over three consecutive years, where his blocks and steals weren't recorded. So it's more like 33.
Well, I feel like it's debatable between Shaq and Wilt, but those are my #1 and #2 in some order in terms of best peak.

[Unbiased_one]

No, the Shaq peak is actually lower than the HOAT peak in Wilt, who had a 31.7 PER over three consecutive years, where his blocks and steals weren't recorded. So it's more like 33.

Very few people on this forum saw wilt play, so it's impossible to say how he compares (in what is a very close comparison) to shaq. Shaq's the best I ever saw, better than Jordan, magic, bird and LeBron.

[salwan]

never understood the talk about his unimpressive peak.

dude was clearly the star/best player of the league, went to 3 straight nba finals, won 2, was dropping 40 for months, scored 81 etc. and his teams werent really THAT stacked after shaq left

he really shouldve gotten more than 1 regular season MVP

[kennethgriffin]

GM surveys



After 04-05:

Tim Duncan

If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
Tim Duncan (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/index.html), San Antonio
40.0%
LeBron James (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lebron_james/index.html), Cleveland
36.0%
Shaquille O'Neal (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shaquille_oneal/index.html), Miami
8.0%
Amare Stoudemire (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/amare_stoudemire/index.html), Phoenix
8.0%
Others receiving votes: Kevin Garnett (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kevin_garnett/index.html), Minnesota, Dwyane Wade (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwyane_wade/index.html), Miami



Who is the best shooting guard in the NBA?
Kobe Bryant (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/index.html), Los Angeles Lakers
56.0%
Dwyane Wade (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwyane_wade/index.html), Miami
28.0%
Ray Allen (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ray_allen/index.html), Seattle
8.0%
Others receiving votes: LeBron James (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lebron_james/index.html), Cleveland, Tracy McGrady (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tracy_mcgrady/index.html), Houston


After 05-06:

Kobe Bryant

Who is the best shooting guard in the NBA?
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers
71.4%
Dwyane Wade, Miami
21.4%
Tracy McGrady, Houston
3.6%
Michael Redd, Milwaukee
3.6%


If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?
LeBron James (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lebron_james/index.html), Cleveland
71.4%
Dwyane Wade (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwyane_wade/index.html), Miami
10.7%
Others receiving votes: Kobe Bryant (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/index.html), L.A. Lakers, Tim Duncan (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/index.html), San Antonio, Dwight Howard (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwight_howard/index.html), Orlando




After 07:


If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?1.LeBron James (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lebron_james/index.html), Cleveland59.3%2.Dwight Howard (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwight_howard/index.html), Orlando25.9%3.Kobe Bryant (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/index.html), L.A. Lakers11.1%Tim Duncan (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/index.html), San Antonio11.1%5.Dirk Nowitzki (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dirk_nowitzki/index.html), Dallas3.7%Last year's pick: LeBron James



Kobe Bryant

Who is the best shooting guard in the NBA? 1.Kobe Bryant (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/index.html), L.A. Lakers92.6%2.Ray Allen (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ray_allen/index.html), Boston3.7%Dwyane Wade (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwyane_wade/index.html), Miami3.7%Last year's pick: Kobe Bryant





The idea that he was the unquestioned best those years is just not true. He wasnt even the unquestioned best 2 guard.

I think he should have been in 2 of those years....but it is what it is.


common man. i'd expect more from a moderator

saying "who gm's would pick to start a franchise" is hardly the best player title

ask me back in 2009 who i'd rather have for the next 10 years and i'd say lebron too

but for that year i'd rather have kobe. since he was the better player with more poise under pressure. kobe showed in hakeem olajuwon style who the best player was with his amazing playoff run. lebron choked like robinson

[kennethgriffin]

never understood the talk about his unimpressive peak.

dude was clearly the star/best player of the league, went to 3 straight nba finals, won 2, was dropping 40 for months, scored 81 etc. and his teams werent really THAT stacked after shaq left

he really shouldve gotten more than 1 regular season MVP


i remember when jordan won his 1st mvp award. it was much the same way kobe should have won it in 2006

yea nash had a better record. but common

nash being a 2 time mvp is a joke. he was never a top 5 player. and i'm canadian saying this

[Unbiased_one]

common man. i'd expect more from a moderator

saying "who gm's would pick to start a franchise" is hardly the best player title

ask me back in 2009 who i'd rather have for the next 10 years and i'd say lebron too

but for that year i'd rather have kobe. since he was the better player with more poise under pressure. kobe showed in hakeem olajuwon style who the best player was with his amazing playoff run. lebron choked like robinson

Yeah in 2009 LeBron choked, only putting up 38/8/8 when he got eliminated and posting the highest ever single season WS/48 in the playoffs

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_season_p.html

He had such a dreadful season...

[kennethgriffin]

Yeah in 2009 LeBron choked, only putting up 38/8/8 when he got eliminated and posting the highest ever single season WS/48 in the playoffs

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_season_p.html

He had such a dreadful season...


another fool who didn't watch the games.. lebron went away from what the cavs were doing all year. forced the issue. then at the end he was a no show after his 1st 3 quarters of amazing stats

[Magic 32]

another fool who didn't watch the games.. lebron went away from what the cavs were doing all year. forced the issue. then at the end he was a no show after his 1st 3 quarters of amazing stats

I actually agree.

In the first 2 rounds, he played a bit like Magic. Then he went all MJ against the Magic and his teammates went cold.

http://oi43.tinypic.com/2ptaqe1.jpg

[Unbiased_one]

another fool who didn't watch the games.. lebron went away from what the cavs were doing all year. forced the issue. then at the end he was a no show after his 1st 3 quarters of amazing stats

I watched quite a bit of that series, but just going on the stats here. He was top scorer in the 4th quarter 3 times overall, 6 times for his team, and the top overall 4th quarter scorer in the series. He had the most pts+rebs+asts of any player in all 6 4th quarters and double anyone else in the series in 4th quarters. He also hit that legendary game winning 3 in game 2.

Making wild claims that have no base in reality is generally not a good idea.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/200905200CLE.html

[Unbiased_one]

I actually agree.

In the first 2 rounds, he played a bit like Magic. Then he went all MJ against the Magic and his teammates went cold.

http://oi43.tinypic.com/2ptaqe1.jpg

He had 48 assists in that series...hardly totally selfish.

That was, in many ways, the greatest individual playoff series ever. (I wouldn't say it is the greatest but I'd put it right up there).

He had the most win shares in the playoffs that year, in just 2 rounds (he is the only player ever to do that).

[Magic 32]

He had 48 assists in that series...hardly totally selfish.

That was, in many ways, the greatest individual playoff series ever. (I wouldn't say it is the greatest but I'd put it right up there).

He had the most win shares in the playoffs that year, in just 2 rounds (he is the only player ever to do that).

They didn't come as organically as they did against Atlanta and the Detroit.

They were Iverson assists.

[Unbiased_one]

They didn't come as organically.

All you ever spout is this sort of subjective crap about how all of LeBron's stats should be counted less than kobe's because they are somehow less 'killer', or 'natural' or some shit like that. LeBron probably isn't even one of my 5 favourite players but it's gets kind of wearing how much kobe stans hate on him (although I do appreciate that LeBron stans hate heavily on kobe, it is no excuse to do the same)

[PickernRoller]

GOD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOO

I could live with OP being a Lebron fan.

Tony and keneh were made for each other.

[Magic 32]

All you ever spout is this sort of subjective crap about how all of LeBron's stats should be counted less than kobe's because they are somehow less 'killer', or 'natural' or some shit like that. LeBron probably isn't even one of my 5 favourite players but it's gets kind of wearing how much kobe stans hate on him (although I do appreciate that LeBron stans hate heavily on kobe, it is no excuse to do the same)

Why don't you rewatch the games then (as I did recently)...

This did not work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70AUcQ3PzQ4
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200905240ORL.html

[Unbiased_one]

Why don't you rewatch the games then (as I did recently)...

What exactly is an 'organic' assist first?

[tmacattack33]

It's probably already been posted, but lol at this theory that his longevity makes his peak less surprising/"wow-ing"...because Duncan has had great longevity, yet his 2003 peak is not any less amazing because of it now is it?

[Magic 32]

What exactly is an 'organic' assist first?

A player passing the ball as part of a system or a set play. With players moving around.

Not holding the ball for 10 sec, then trying to break down the defense and kicking the ball out to a semi-open teammate (who is standing around looking).

That was what Kobe did in Rudy T's offense and it sucked the life out of his teammates.

[Optimus Prime]

What's the obsession with peaks all of a sudden?

Kobe has been so good for so long people take it for granted. He was 34 last year in his 17th season playing like he was ten years younger. With no signs of slowing down if he rehabs like we know Kobe will work. It's pretty spectacular if you think about it. Shaq was right ... Kobe could play at an elite level until he's 40 if he wanted to. :kobe:

[KG215]

It's probably already been posted, but lol at this theory that his longevity makes his peak less surprising/"wow-ing"...because Duncan has had great longevity, yet his 2003 peak is not any less amazing because of it now is it?
Yeah, Duncan has had 10+ seasons where he's been an elite player, but he's also got a noticeable peak that's top 10 all-time, unlike Kobe. From his rookie year through about 2008 or 2009 Duncan was an elite player, so that's 11 or 12 seasons. Then, if you include his resurgence, that's another one that makes it 12 or 13 seasons; and, like you said, that doesn't make his 2001-2004 stretch (2003 was his best peak season but he was close to that player those other years) any less impressive.

Same thing with Shaq, who was an elite player from his rookie year through 2005, maybe 2006, but I'd cut it off at 2005 which was his last season he legitimately had a claim at league MVP. So, from 1992-1993 through 2004-2005 (13 seasons) Shaq had a "peak" comparable to or better than Kobe's 2001-2013, but Shaq was on a different level from 2000-2002.

And Jordan, who came in and put up 28-6-6-2 his rookie year, played at an elite level through 1998 (12 seasons and change counting '94-'95). But, like Duncan and Shaq, he had a pretty noticeable peak that's in the top 5-10 all-time.

Don't know why OP is trying to sell this notion that Kobe's the only player that's played at a similar level for 10+ seasons, because he's not.

[sportjames23]

At the end of the day, if most put their hate for Kobe aside, they'll see that there has never been a player as consistently dominant as Kobe over a 10+ year stretch.


You missed the 80s and 90s, didn't you?

[KG215]

At the end of the day, if most put their hate for Kobe aside, they'll see that there has never been a player as consistently dominant as Kobe over a 10+ year stretch.
Wow..don't even know how I missed this gem. But yeah, you're wrong.

[KG215]

You missed the 80s and 90s, didn't you?
And Jordan isn't the only player that was consistently great for 10+ seasons.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Kobe's prime was from '03-'09 as far as a combination of skill set and athleticism.

His peak was in either 2006 or 2008.



2001 ( espn said he was the best player. magazine pic in 1st post )

Shaq was the consensus best player in the league in 2001. Kobe was the consensus 2nd best player, though I'd probably put him 3rd behind Duncan as well. Either way, no logical case can be made for him as the best player this year.


2002 ( top 3 with shaq,duncan )

Correct


2003 ( arguable with duncan )

No, 2003 belonged to Duncan.


2006 ( best player by far )

Correct.


2007 ( best player by far )

Correct


2008 ( mvp, arguable with lebron )

Correct, except he was flat out better than Lebron in '08.


2009 ( finals mvp, arguable with lebron )

Correct, though I'd go with Lebron, and Wade is in the discussion as well.


2010 ( finals mvp, arguable with lebron )

Correct, though I'd go with Lebron


2011 ( top 3 )

No, top 5 at the absolute best.


2013 ( top 3 )

That's a stretch.


shaq needs a hall of fame legendary clutch peak 2 way player to win

all kobe needs is a top 90-100 all time player bench warmer allstar 3rd team all nba spanish softy to win

:oldlol: Kobe undoubtedly had more help for his 2009 and 2010 titles than Shaq did for his 2000 title. So many things wrong with every single one of your posts.

[K Xerxes]

Kobe's longevity is so overrated.

Kareem was dominant from his rookie year until he was 37/38 (winning FMVP in 1985). That's 16-17 years of elite play. And he was the best player in the game for at least a good 10 years in that stretch.

Jordan was dominant from his rookie year until 1998. 12 seasons.

Duncan was dominant for at least 10 years from his rookie season.

Shaq from his rookie year until 2005/2006 (13 years).

Hakeem from his rookie until until 1996/1997 (11-12 years).

LeBron has been an elite player since 2005/2006, and he's not going to stop any time soon.

The thing that differentiates each of them is that they have a peak where they really wowed and took it to a different level. Kobe's peak is not on that level, so it's brushed with his 'prime' play.

[9erempiree]

It's sad how people have Hakeem in the top 10 with only 2 rings. While Kobe has 5 rings. Heck, you can even take away those 3 rings with Shaq and Kobe should be in the top 5 and get that Hakeem favoritism.

Kobe averaged 27 points per game: 10 times

Hakeem averaged 27 ppg on : 3 times

I say Kobe was far more dominant.

[ShaqAttack3234]

It's sad how people have Hakeem in the top 10 with only 2 rings. While Kobe has 5 rings. Heck, you can even take away those 3 rings with Shaq and Kobe should be in the top 5 and get that Hakeem favoritism.

Kobe averaged 27 points per game: 10 times

Hakeem averaged 27 ppg on : 3 times

I say Kobe was far more dominant.

It's because Hakeem was a flat out better player than Kobe. I have never seen Kobe for a year where I thought he was as good as Hakeem was at his best. And if I'm starting a franchise and get both in their primes, I'm picking Hakeem without hesitation.

It's nothing against Kobe, Hakeem was just better.

[K Xerxes]

It's sad how people have Hakeem in the top 10 with only 2 rings. While Kobe has 5 rings. Heck, you can even take away those 3 rings with Shaq and Kobe should be in the top 5 and get that Hakeem favoritism.

Kobe averaged 27 points per game: 10 times

Hakeem averaged 27 ppg on : 3 times

I say Kobe was far more dominant.

Yes, ppg defines dominance.

Kobe averaged > 20-10: 0 times

Hakeem averaged > 20-10: 12 times (another 12 times in playoffs).

Kobe shot >50%: 0 times (both regular season and playoffs)

Hakeem shot >50%: 14 times (another 11 times in playoffs)

Best not to talk about defense either. :lol

[9erempiree]

It's because Hakeem was a flat out better player than Kobe. I have never seen Kobe for a year where I thought he was as good as Hakeem was at his best. And if I'm starting a franchise and get both in their primes, I'm picking Hakeem without hesitation.

It's nothing against Kobe, Hakeem was just better.

That's why you are not a GM.

[ShaqAttack3234]

That's why you are not a GM.

That's why I believe you've never seen Hakeem play.

[STATUTORY]

Shaq was player of the week his first week in the league and put up 27/14 on 64% shooting by his third month. He had 29/15, 21/19/9 blocks, 24/18/5, 46/21/5 block, 28/14/5, and 30/19 in 6 straight games as a rookie.


In his first 10 games in his season season he put up:


42/12
36/7/5
37/9/4
19/8(massive blowout didnt play much)
21/7/4/4
23/10/5
25/13
41/10
24/28/15 blocks
28/7

Shaq was a 29/13/3 block 60% shooting player his second season. At age 21.

Year 3 he leads the league in scoring and goes to the finals, year 4 he wins 60 games, year 5 its 56, year 7 its 61 and by then its 99 and hes already had a legit HOF career and been named top 50 all time.

This is before 2000.

But that doesnt stand up to Kobes peak...during which he was either #2 to Shaq for years, losing in the first round or missing the playoffs for 4 years, or winning.....in less impressive fashion than Shaq did in his prime.

Shaq was legit HOF level his first week in the league and was MVP runner up 13 years later. Shaq could easily be said to have a 12 or so year prime. Just so happens his peak was on a level its arguable only 1-2 people ever reached so it stands out.

Shaqs 99-02 would stand out in the career of anyone who ever played.

That he wasnt that for 15 years isnt a negative. It means he isnt god.

Kobe wasnt what Shaq was....ever. Which is why his peak is less impressive.

Its impressive. It just isnt shaq.

Almost nobody is Shaq at his peak. And truth is...you can argue for removing that "Almost".

:roll: :roll: is this homie really listing individual games and trying to pawn them off as season/series averages?


It's because Hakeem was a flat out better player than Kobe. I have never seen Kobe for a year where I thought he was as good as Hakeem was at his best. And if I'm starting a franchise and get both in their primes, I'm picking Hakeem without hesitation.

It's nothing against Kobe, Hakeem was just better.


it's aite bro, nostalgia is a powerful emotion, it taints everything. Your memory of hakeem is not close to reality

[9erempiree]

That's why I believe you've never seen Hakeem play.

:facepalm

Seen him play many times. I've actually lived in Houston for 2 years too. I've been watching for 25 years now. Longer than anyone on ISH and even older too.

Been to the Summit too. Go google that.

[ShaqAttack3234]

it's aite bro, nostalgia is a powerful emotion, it taints everything. Your memory of hakeem is not close to reality

I didn't expect any real rebuttal considering your bias on this matter. Thanks for proving me right. The idea of Kobe being as good as Hakeem is truly laughable and shows what short memories most sports fans have.


:facepalm

Seen him play many times. I've actually lived in Houston for 2 years too. I've been watching for 25 years now. Longer than anyone on ISH and even older too.

Been to the Summit too. Go google that.

I doubt you've even been alive 25 years.

[Unbiased_one]

it's aite bro, nostalgia is a powerful emotion, it taints everything. Your memory of hakeem is not close to reality

My main memories of hakeem are those playoff runs in 94 and 95...just incredible what he did.

Shaq and Hakeem are my two favourite players...the most dominant big men of my life time, and certainly way more dominant than kobe in every way.

[DMAVS41]

I didn't expect any real rebuttal considering your bias on this matter. Thanks for proving me right. The idea of Kobe being as good as Hakeem is truly laughable and shows what short memories most sports fans have.



I doubt you've even been alive 25 years.

This.

Kobe has amassed a crazy good career, but anyone that watched them both play knows nobody would take Kobe over Hakeem starting a franchise knowing how good each player would become.

Nobody. If anyone actually thinks Kobe gives you a better chance to win than Hakeem...you simply didn't watch them play or are too biased to have an opinion.

It honestly shouldn't be debatable.

The only non bigs I can think of that you could argue over Hakeem are Bird, MJ, Magic, and Lebron.

And, for the record, I'm one that thinks Hakeem is sometimes over-rated a bit on here.

[Kblaze8855]

I didn't expect any real rebuttal considering your bias on this matter. Thanks for proving me right. The idea of Kobe being as good as Hakeem is truly laughable and shows what short memories most sports fans have.



I doubt you've even been alive 25 years.


He was born in 1994. He remembers the first laker 3 peat like I remember Elvin Hayes. he never saw Hakeem before YouTube.

[9erempiree]

He was born in 1994. He remembers the first laker 3 peat like I remember Elvin Hayes. he never saw Hakeem before YouTube.

You should really not moderate or post on this message board when you are drunk.

Something you have admitted to us that you do on the regular on ISH. It's starting to cloud your judgement.

[Kblaze8855]

Id done worse at your age than BS online. So i try not to judge. But you make it hard to look the other way. I'll just say.....let's drop it.

Not like anyone buys it anyway

[IncarceratedBob]

Isn't Hakeem a muslim?


Good luck with that guy as your franchise player.

[HurricaneKid]

Kobe averaged 27 points per game: 10 times

Hakeem averaged 27 ppg on : 3 times

I say Kobe was far more dominant.

There it is.

Kobestan: "PPGz. Thats the real test."

[kennethgriffin]

There it is.

Kobestan: "PPGz. Thats the real test."


kobe was the main ball handler/ play maker for the lakers 5 world titles

kobe has the most all nba defensive 1st teams in history. shaq never made one


so kobe was not only dropping these 27-30ppg averages. he was doing everything else too idiot

[rzp]

At the end of the day, if most put their hate for Kobe aside, they'll see that there has never been a player as consistently dominant as Kobe over a 10+ year stretch.

Shaq averaged 25+/10+ for 10 years

[HurricaneKid]

Good post, though. It's 100% accurate. Kobe has the greatest, longest peak of any athlete not named Michael Jordan. And there's no shame in being 2nd to MJ.

From 70-81 Kareem was 1st in PER 8 times and 2nd 3 times. In his career Kobe was first zero times and second zero times.

Kind of puts it all in perspective.

[Chrono90]

depending on if you love or hate kobe. kobes been the best player or arguably the best player along with someone else quite a few times


2001 ( espn said he was the best player. magazine pic in 1st post )
2002 ( top 3 with shaq,duncan )
2003 ( arguable with duncan )
2004 ( injured, but still 1st team all nba )
2005 ( injured )
2006 ( best player by far )
2007 ( best player by far )
2008 ( mvp, arguable with lebron )
2009 ( finals mvp, arguable with lebron )
2010 ( finals mvp, arguable with lebron )
2011 ( top 3 )
2012 ( injured, but still 1st team all nba )
2013 ( top 3 )


kobes been the best or argued as the best 7 times

if your a kobe fan without objectivity. you'l say every year since 2001 till 2010

if your a kobe hater without objectivity. you'l say hes never been the best player


but its obvious with all the great legends and coaches saying kobe was the best player for a good 5-7 years and all the media outlets voting him player of the decade... its obvious anyone with a brain can admit he was the best player atleast for some amount of time.

Good job with the stats. It's hard to argue hate though. Haters can't be convinced lol.

[Jameerthefear]

ISH is literally the only place I've seen where Kobe gets disrespected so much. Most people IRL put him in their top 5 tbh

[ShaqAttack3234]

He was born in 1994. He remembers the first laker 3 peat like I remember Elvin Hayes. he never saw Hakeem before YouTube.

'94? That makes more sense.

[Legends66NBA7]

ISH is literally the only place I've seen where Kobe gets disrespected so much. Most people IRL put him in their top 5 tbh

Well, a lot of Kobe homers tend to disrespect other great players as well. This all started with some crazed Kobe homer on YouTube back around 2008ish time period... dissing other eras of basketball and their stars from Jerry West to Larry Bird to Michael Jordan, etc...; he got pretty popular quick too and many bought his agenda driven garbage, until it got shot down by more knowledgeable basketball fans. I don't agree with a lot of the disrespect Bryant gets, but I can see why it's infused a lot on here. As for the trolls, I would rather just ignore them and their hating.

As for Bryant in the Top 5, I know what your talking about. I've even seen adults on some social websites rank him Top 2-3, as well. Take that for what it is.

[TheBigVeto]

Kobe isn't great dude, let it go.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

ISH is literally the only place I've seen where Kobe gets disrespected so much. Most people IRL put him in their top 5 tbh
Most people "IRL" put Ali as the GOAT boxer when he isn't. Casuals don't know anything about the history of the sport.

[DMAVS41]

At the end of the day, if most put their hate for Kobe aside, they'll see that there has never been a player as consistently dominant as Kobe over a 10+ year stretch.

Which 10 years are you talking about?

Because just off the top of my head...Duncan and Hakeem and Shaq and soon to be Lebron all had 10 year runs better than Kobe did.

[Jameerthefear]

Most people "IRL" put Ali as the GOAT boxer when he isn't. Casuals don't know anything about the history of the sport.
I know. I was just pointing out how ridiculous ISH was by pointing out a casual fan's perspective...
3000th post :D

[IllegalD]

Which 10 years are you talking about?

Because just off the top of my head...Duncan and Hakeem and Shaq and soon to be Lebron all had 10 year runs better than Kobe did.

Please be so kind to remove Kobe's ***** from your mouth, good sir.

[LongLiveTheKing]

You could make the same case for Lebron 27,7,7 since his 2nd year.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Which 10 years are you talking about?

Because just off the top of my head...Duncan and Hakeem and Shaq and soon to be Lebron all had 10 year runs better than Kobe did.

Yeah, I didn't understand that post either. The 10 year run for Kobe would be '01-'10, and in that case, I'd take '71-'80 Kareem(of course that's leaving out a rookie year in which he took a 27 win expansion team to 55 wins), '94-'03 Shaq or '95-'04 Shaq, '98-'07 Duncan and '86-'95 Hakeem, or '87-'96 Hakeem.

[Jacks3]

you have to be a moron to not have Kobe's peak wow you.

05-07: 34 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/57% TS/27 PER/115 ORTG
45 40+ pt games
18 50+ pt games
5 60+ pt games
4 different months averaging 40+ PPG
81 pts
62 pts in three quarters
10 different 50+ pt games in one season!

just insane stuff. it got to the point where a 45-50/5-6/5/2 night was just "another game" for him. he was routinely scoring 50+ so often that people literally stopped talking about it.

truly GODBE mode.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[ShaqAttack3234]

you have to be a moron to not have Kobe's peak wow you.

05-07: 34 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/57% TS/27 PER/115 ORTG
45 40+ pt games
18 50+ pt games
5 60+ pt games
4 different months averaging 40+ PPG
81 pts
62 pts in three quarters
10 different 50+ pt games in one season!

just insane stuff. it got to the point where a 45-50/5-6/5/2 night was just "another game" for him. he was routinely scoring 50+ so often that people literally stopped talking about it.

truly GODBE mode.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

I agree that Kobe did have a great peak. It was remarkable those high-scoring games seeming ordinary, particularly the 2006 season when he went out looking to score every game for the entire season, opponents knew that's what he was going to do, and they still couldn't stop him. a 35 ppg average on an overachieving 45 win team, 27 40 point games, 6 50 point games, 62 in 3 quarters and 81 in a game is incredible.

[Jacks3]

yes indeed. perhaps the best scorer in history not named Jordan at his peak.

[Bandito]

Well, a lot of Kobe homers tend to disrespect other great players as well. This all started with some crazed Kobe homer on YouTube back around 2008ish time period... dissing other eras of basketball and their stars from Jerry West to Larry Bird to Michael Jordan, etc...; he got pretty popular quick too and many bought his agenda driven garbage, until it got shot down by more knowledgeable basketball fans. I don't agree with a lot of the disrespect Bryant gets, but I can see why it's infused a lot on here. As for the trolls, I would rather just ignore them and their hating.

As for Bryant in the Top 5, I know what your talking about. I've even seen adults on some social websites rank him Top 2-3, as well. Take that for what it is.
It's the same thing Lebrontards are doing now. I'll bet most of those Kobe stans are the same Lebron stans today who were the same as MJ's. It's a vicious cycle of the retarded.

[Straight_Ballin]

Lol at Kobe even being mentioned in the same sentence as Hakeem and Shaq. Just another born in 1990's kid that has no clue.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Kobe Bryant is protected by the refs. If he was white then he wouldn't have been the same player.

[kennethgriffin]

Lol at Kobe even being mentioned in the same sentence as Hakeem and Shaq. Just another born in 1990's kid that has no clue.

i was born in 84 and its not a matter of opinion. kobes higher all time.

kobes career is even slightly better than hakeems even if you don't count his 3 titles with shaq or any of his all nba teams

look


hakeem in 18 years

2 titles
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
6 first team all nba's
4 first team all defense's


kobe from 2005 till 2013

2 titles
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
8 first team all nba's
6 first team all defense's



:roll: :lol :oldlol: :facepalm :bowdown:


lol@ half of kobes career > all of hakeems

[Straight_Ballin]

How many seasons does Kobe have shooting over 50%?
How many playoff series shooting over 50%?

[kennethgriffin]

How many seasons does Kobe have shooting over 50%?
How many playoff series shooting over 50%?

how many seasons does ray allen have shooting over 50%?

how many seasons does reggie miller have shooting over 50%?

how many seasons does rick barry have shooting over 50%?

theyre 3 of the best shooters in nba history


high volume outside scorers dont shoot 50% f*ckin idiot

guys like lebron and jordan are dared wide open to hit their three point attempts.

guys like kobe, ray, reggie, rick were guarded by 2 guys after they crossed midcourt..


kobe isnt a center like shaq or hakeem.... he isnt a stricly slasher like mj was half his career. then a post up fading player... kobe is 90% of the time a jump shooter, outside shooter..


different types of players have different types of percentages

[D-Wade316]

kenneth is the lowesthuman being on this site.

[D-Wade316]

kenneth is the lowest human being on this site. and this says a lot because there are other beyond-help turds.

[Straight_Ballin]

how many seasons does ray allen have shooting over 50%?

how many seasons does reggie miller have shooting over 50%?

how many seasons does rick barry have shooting over 50%?

theyre 3 of the best shooters in nba history


high volume outside scorers dont shoot 50% f*ckin idiot

guys like lebron and jordan are dared wide open to hit their three point attempts.

guys like kobe, ray, reggie, rick were guarded by 2 guys after they crossed midcourt..


kobe isnt a center like shaq or hakeem.... he isnt a stricly slasher like mj was half his career. then a post up fading player... kobe is 90% of the time a jump shooter, outside shooter..


different types of players have different types of percentages

27ppg and 29ppg is high volume scoring at >50% shooting while being triple covered most of the time. Kobe is not in the conversation in terms of peak play when you take this into account.

[KG215]

i was born in 84 and its not a matter of opinion. kobes higher all time.

kobes career is even slightly better than hakeems even if you don't count his 3 titles with shaq or any of his all nba teams

Yes, Kobe's career resume is better than Hakeem's. However, what people are saying, and they're right, is that Hakeem's peak is better (by a good margin) than Kobe's. It's not even a knock on Kobe, really, who was great at his peak, but Hakeem was just clearly superior at his.

[LA Lakers]

All Kobe vs other hall of famer arguments aside, Youre very wrong my friend comparing Shaq to a raw purely athletic dunking type center like Dwight Howard. For one, Shaq was a better athlete. Shaq had a vast array of skills, excellent handles for a guy his size, much better footwork, could actually score playing with his back to the basket something this kid wont hardly ever do. Lakers from 97 thru 04- Shaq Attack. His Orlando days he dominated as well, it goes without saying Penny was no Kobe, but still. Okay, ugly free throw shot, but that's it. Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Russell in no real order. That's a VIP list, right?

[Jacks3]

you have to be a moron to not have Kobe's peak wow you.

05-07: 34 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/57% TS/27 PER/115 ORTG
45 40+ pt games
18 50+ pt games
5 60+ pt games
4 different months averaging 40+ PPG
81 pts
62 pts in three quarters
10 different 50+ pt games in one season!

just insane stuff. it got to the point where a 45-50/5-6/5/2 night was just "another game" for him. he was routinely scoring 50+ so often that people literally stopped talking about it.

truly GODBE mode.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[b1imtf]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Wrong account?
Jk

[KG215]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
We get it. You like the taste of Kobe's d**k.

[juju151111]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Ur on the same account lmao.

[kennethgriffin]

peaks are just opinion. there is no real way to measure it other than "i think he changed the game more. i saw him. he was better"

its a last ditch effort and only meaningless way for losers to still argue shaq/hakeem types against kobe

when in reality. its bogus

because any half wit can say "IMO tmacs peak = same level as jordan. therefore.. tmac is the greatest player of all time"

lol :roll:

you guys are just pathetic as hell


i'm part of the faction that believes kobes peak is above hakeem and shaqs... infact.. the only guys whos peak was above kobes was wilt and jordan


and the proof of it is... 90% of all the records or streaks out there go

#1 wilt
#2 jordan
#3 kobe


those guys had the most amazing peaks cause they did all the damage on the record books

[Straight_Ballin]

And at the end of the day the majority opinion by posters in this thread is that Hakeem and Shaq's peak > Kobe's.

Keep riding on Kobe's hills while the rest of us look down from Shaq's mountain.

[KG215]

peaks are just opinion. there is no real way to measure it other than "i think he changed the game more. i saw him. he was better"
So are all-time rankings lists.


its a last ditch effort and only meaningless way for losers to still argue shaq/hakeem types against kobe
No, not when (as is the case here) people are specifically talking about peaks and only peaks. It sounds like you're making a last ditch effort to discredit something that's just as meaningful/meaningless as all-time top 10/20/50 lists.


because any half wit can say "IMO tmacs peak = same level as jordan. therefore.. tmac is the greatest player of all time"

lol :roll:
Right, and no half-wit can say "IMO tmacs peak = same level as jordan. therefore.. tmac is the greatest player of all time." This is obviously only applicable when people try to bring up player's peaks.



i'm part of the faction that believes kobes peak is above hakeem and shaqs... infact.. the only guys whos peak was above kobes was wilt and jordan
Wrong, at their absolute best Hakeem and Shaq had a bigger overall impact on the game than Kobe did at his peak. Only blindly obsessed Kobe fanboy would try and argue Kobe was better at his peak. It's not a knock on Kobe, because Shaq, without question, has at least a top 5 peak, and has a case for GOAT peak; and Hakeem is, at the very least, a fringe top 5 all-time peak player. Kobe is just a tier below them when talking about their best 1-3 season stretches.



and the proof of it is... 90% of all the records or streaks out there go

#1 wilt
#2 jordan
#3 kobe
Please, tell us of those records and streaks...the ones that aren't accumulated over the course of an entire career. If you're going to focus on Kobe's scoring tears at his peak, fine, still doesn't mean his peak was as good as other players like Hakeem and Shaq who dominated the game on both ends at a higher level.

As far as I can tell, no one is trying to say Kobe's peak wasn't that good, because it was great. But anyone that saw them all play can sit there with a straight face and tell me Kobe, at his best, was better and more impactful than Shaq and Hakeem at their best.

[sportjames23]

Most people "IRL" put Ali as the GOAT boxer when he isn't. Casuals don't know anything about the history of the sport.


Aw, hell naw, son. You trippin' now.

[Straight_Ballin]

Aw, hell naw, son. You trippin' now.

Most people think George Foreman is the greatest boxer because of the grill. :lol