Wilt is one of the most overrated scorers in NBA History

[millwad]

The more I read, watch and reflect I realize that the scoring machine Wilt Chamberlain is very overrated in terms of scoring greatness.

First of all, when you compare old school players scoring numbers to modern era players you have to realize that the pace was much faster back in the days and they scored way more points per game.

Adjusting Wilt's scoring numbers to modern era pace is a much better tool to use when comparing his scoring to modern era players. One also needs to realize the fact that Wilt faced way worse defense compared to modern era players.

When Wilt was at his scoring peak played against teams with defensive schemes that can't be compared to modern era basketball and double and triple teams was a rarity. Alot of old school fans like G4yLauber, CavaliersFTW and PHILA likes to claim that Wilt faced alot tougher defense compared to the modern era stars and they try to prove that with articles rather than actual footage. We now have footage that prove that Wilt didn't really face the defense they like to claim, double and triple teams was a rarity and defensive schemes were weak as well.

Now over to actual stats, Wilt's had a career regular season average of 30.1 points per game. Pretty amazing, he has the second highest point per game average in league history, only trailing Jordan.

Now lets go over to the playoffs, his playoff scoring average is only 22.5 points per game on 52% shooting.

Going from a GOAT candidate scorer in the regular season to being an elite scorer in the playoffs is a big time transition and especially for someone like Wilt who is considered to be the best of his era.

Wilt never won during his scoring peak, in fact, he never won a ring while leading a team in scoring in the playoffs. In '67 Hal Greer took over the scoring from Wilt and in '72 when he won his second ring he was the team's fourth highest scorer in the playoffs.

Bottom line, the second highest scoring average in the regular season belongs to Wilt and the mediocre 22.5 points per game average in the playoffs also belongs to Wilt. And when I write "mediocre" I mean that it's mediocre for a player like Wilt.

Now adjust Wilt's career playoff average to modern era pace and it's even less impressive, don't forget that they played at a much higher pace back in the 60's.

Wilt's PER 36 minute scoring average in the playoffs was only 17.2 points per game. So much for being the "GOAT" scorer when he never even won a title as the highest scorer and so much for being the "GOAT" scorer with his 22.5 point per game average in the playoffs and 17.2 points per game average a la PER 36 minutes.

[RRR3]

Wilt is the greatest player of all time and it's not even close.

[no pun intended]

Oh shit. You're back. And with a vengeance.

[coin24]

But he kills mountain lions bare handed:bowdown:

What ever happened to jlauber chamberlain??

[RRR3]

Not much, but I wasn't being serious anyways.

[RRR3]

Stop posting to yourself.
I was talking to you, unless you're implying we're the same person?

[LongLiveTheKing]

I never knew Wilt averaged that little in the playoffs.:biggums:

[juju151111]

The more I read, watch and reflect I realize that the scoring machine Wilt Chamberlain is very overrated in terms of scoring greatness.

First of all, when you compare old school players scoring numbers to modern era players you have to realize that the pace was much faster back in the days and they scored way more points per game.

Adjusting Wilt's scoring numbers to modern era pace is a much better tool to use when comparing his scoring to modern era players. One also needs to realize the fact that Wilt faced way worse defense compared to modern era players.

When Wilt was at his scoring peak played against teams with defensive schemes that can't be compared to modern era basketball and double and triple teams was a rarity. Alot of old school fans like G4yLauber, CavaliersFTW and PHILA likes to claim that Wilt faced alot tougher defense compared to the modern era stars and they try to prove that with articles rather than actual footage. We now have footage that prove that Wilt didn't really face the defense they like to claim, double and triple teams was a rarity and defensive schemes were weak as well.

Now over to actual stats, Wilt's had a career regular season average of 30.1 points per game. Pretty amazing, he has the second highest point per game average in league history, only trailing Jordan.

Now lets go over to the playoffs, his playoff scoring average is only 22.5 points per game on 52% shooting.

Going from a GOAT candidate scorer in the regular season to being an elite scorer in the playoffs is a big time transition and especially for someone like Wilt who is considered to be the best of his era.

Wilt never won during his scoring peak, in fact, he never won a ring while leading a team in scoring in the playoffs. In '67 Hal Greer took over the scoring from Wilt and in '72 when he won his second ring he was the team's fourth highest scorer in the playoffs.

Bottom line, the second highest scoring average in the regular season belongs to Wilt and the mediocre 22.5 points per game average in the playoffs also belongs to Wilt. And when I write "mediocre" I mean that it's mediocre for a player like Wilt.

Now adjust Wilt's career playoff average to modern era pace and it's even less impressive, don't forget that they played at a much higher pace back in the 60's.

Wilt's PER 36 minute scoring average in the playoffs was only 17.2 points per game. So much for being the "GOAT" scorer when he never even won a title as the highest scorer and so much for being the "GOAT" scorer with his 22.5 point per game average in the playoffs and 17.2 points per game average a la PER 36 minutes.

I agree:applause: this guy has a freaking 17 ppg playoffs adjusted stats lmao.

[RRR3]

Wilt's playoff PPG is low because he played a lot of his playoff games once he began to take less shots per game. At least that's statistically the case
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html

[millwad]

Wilt's playoff PPG is low because he played a lot of his playoff games once he began to take less shots per game. At least that's statistically the case
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html

That's a terrible excuse.
I hate when people use that as an argument, it doesn't make sense.

Lets turn it around.

No one would ask Wilt to score less if his regular season peak scoring would be that effective, no one would.

And it's a fact that Wilt never won during his scoring peak but he won his 2 rings while scoring WAY less and while not being the leading scorer for his team in the playoffs.

[deja vu]

Inb4 wall of text from Lazeruss a.k.a. jlauber.

Anyways, I think Wilt would average 20-25 ppg in the modern era because of his height and athleticism. You have seen Dwight Howard average around 20 ppg with worse offensive skills and about similar athleticism. So there's no reason why Wilt can't be a little bit better than Dwight on offense (as well as defense).

That said, I think Wilt will have monster games and will struggle many times as well. He'll no longer be a big whale in a small pond just like in the 60s. He'll be dealing with big men who are about the same size as him. So you won't see those easy layups and dunks that he did 100x times a game back in the 60s. Those shots will get swatted easily by Dwight or McGee. Haha...

[avonbarksdale]

i hope cavaliersftw comes in here soon to show up some mock ups he spent hours on to show how tall wilt is compared to dwight


jk hate that idiot

[CavaliersFTW]

He still owns the records for PPG, Points in a season, number of 40, 50, and 60 point games (etc) Field Goal Accuracy, and he won 7 straight scoring titles.

There's nothing overrated about those achievements.

[millwad]

He still owns the records for PPG, Points in a season, number of 40, 50, and 60 point games (etc) Field Goal Accuracy, and he won 7 straight scoring titles.

There's nothing overrated about those achievements.

Just like I wrote, one of the most overrated scorers in NBA history.
Even in '67, in the regular season of that year Wilt had the 3rd highest point per game average.

Suddenly in the playoffs Greer took over and Wilt had the tied 2nd best scoring average in the playoffs for his team.

And regarding his FG accuracy, you guys have been spamming about his FG% for so long. I like how you always focus on his FG% in the regular season and not in the playoffs..

Wilt made less than 50% of his shots during 4 different playoff years. And guys like Shaq, Olajuwon and Kareem both scored more than Wilt per game in the playoffs while also shooting with better FG%.

[KOBE143]

Wilt is an overrated choker that played in a weak era..

Poor Mans Javale Mcgee at best..

[KyrieTheFuture]

So lets just get one thing straight, you never actually watched Wilt right? You're a 20 something who's only speculating? Yea, sit down and keep quiet.

[TheTenth]

So lets just get one thing straight, you never actually watched Wilt right? You're a 20 something who's only speculating? Yea, sit down and keep quiet.
This isn't about Wilt's PPG, it's about a vendetta.
It's not about intellectual advancement, it's about proving a point.
It's not about looking for answers, it's about spewing one's own.
It's not about understanding, it's seeking to incite.

... maybe I should be a poet? :facepalm

[millwad]

This isn't about Wilt's PPG, it's about a vendetta.
It's not about intellectual advancement, it's about proving a point.
It's not about looking for answers, it's about spewing one's own.
It's not about understanding, it's seeking to incite.

... maybe I should be a poet? :facepalm

You registrated in 2013, shut it.

You're such a fool, you never reply with actual facts, you're just a second coming of Jlauber. Either you reply in stupid fashion like above or you cherry pick stats.

[millwad]

So lets just get one thing straight, you never actually watched Wilt right? You're a 20 something who's only speculating? Yea, sit down and keep quiet.

I've seen the footage that is available and I've done plenty of research by my own.

You're the fool who is buttyboying for Kyrie, did you start to watch basketball yesterday?

[daily]

So lets just get one thing straight, you never actually watched Wilt right? You're a 20 something who's only speculating? Yea, sit down and keep quiet.:bowdown:

[millwad]

I like how the people above who think I'm wrong replies in such a stupid fashion. Either you guys reply with some stupid smiley or you write irrelevant bogus.

[CavaliersFTW]

Gat damn Millwad seems to be putting more energy into being anti-Wilt lately. I wonder if this will re-ignite one of ISH's greatest old rivalry's.

About a year ago every week you could basically expect some sort of heated confrontation between Millwad and Jlauber (now Lazeruss) :lol

[daily]

Gat damn Millwad seems to be putting more energy into being anti-Wilt lately. I wonder if this will re-ignite one of ISH's greatest old rivalry's.

He's run out of Asian people to pick on in the OTC so he's back to trolling Wilt. :lol

[millwad]

He's run out of Asian people to pick on in the OTC so he's back to trolling Wilt. :lol

It was never my fault.

Godzuki was a 50 year old virgin korean punk.
Dwade-316 was a pinoy Windows XP buttyboy.
SourPatchKids is a 14 year old with a massive chin.

But my Wilt posts are serious, I got Jlauber good and that was why he left the last time.

[Fresh Kid]

1. Lebron James

[TheTenth]

You registrated in 2013, shut it.
Great detective work.


You're such a fool, you never reply with actual facts, you're just a second coming of Jlauber. Either you reply in stupid fashion like above or you cherry pick stats.
I always reply with facts; I just assume you ignore them because it doesn't suit your agenda.

Also name some other times in which "I responded in stupid fashion." I pride myself on dedication of removal of personal bias, looking at the whole picture, and refusing to delve into ad hominem attacks. Of course; my ideas may be overly Utopian, but at least I am making an effort. You throw around a-lot of insults and one-liners but not much of substance.

[millwad]

Great detective work.


I always reply with facts; I just assume you ignore them because it doesn't suit your agenda.

Also name some other times in which "I responded in stupid fashion." I pride myself on dedication of removal of personal bias, looking at the whole picture, and refusing to delve into ad hominem attacks. Of course; my ideas may be overly Utopian, but at least I am making an effort. You throw around a-lot of insults and one-liners but not much of substance.

Oh, no personal bias?

You're cherry picking what you like to mention and in the other thread you almost felt insulted that I mentioned his playoff scoring average.

You are nothing but a needy fool.

[TheTenth]

Oh, no personal bias?
It's the goal; maybe not the outcome.


You're cherry picking what you like to mention and in the other thread you almost felt insulted that I mentioned his playoff scoring average.
I was not insulted and I responded to you in length about why I thought what I did - I am on this site for a good debate. You did not respond to back up your argument. I prefer not to cherry pick and I honestly don't think I do. One needs context with every situation.


You are nothing but a needy fool.
Correct. I need water, food, and air in my lungs. I assume this back and forth we are having is rather pointless though. I am always up for a good debate on players, and when you are ready to have one - shoot me a pm. Regardless, I think you probably want the last word on this matter - so I'll let you have it.

[Marchesk]

This is why I advocated separating the best player (or big in this kind of argument) from the greatest player. We can't send prime Shaq back to the 60s to see if he would best Wilt's numbers, or whether they would let Shaq play like Shaq back then, or put Wilt on the Celtics and see how many titles he would win. It's all speculation.

The only thing we can objectively do is compare what players did over their careers, regardless of era, teammates or what have you.

Russell is the greatest winner, and there isn't a debate on that. Wilt has the greatest individual stats, and there is no debating that. No player in the history of a game dominated an era like Russell or Wilt did. That's why they are GOAT candidates.

You can argue for Shaq being a superior force all you like, but his overall career doesn't match Russell or Wilt's accomplishments. Now Kareem and MJ do, because you get a mix of great stats, awards and championships.

The rest is just opinion. Oh and Kobe >>>>>>>>>> Lebron (goat not boat).

[Jameerthefear]

Isn't op the guy that stalked SPK (a 14 year old) to try and prove a point? What a creep.

[millwad]

Isn't op the guy that stalked SPK (a 14 year old) to try and prove a point? What a creep.

Lie.

[bdreason]

I don't think Wilt is overrated... players should only be measured against their peers. However, his statistics, more specifically in the early-mid 60's are inflated. Not only was the league still heavily segregated, but as mentioned before, the pace was rampant.

Judging how players dribbled and shot back then isn't fair, as the rules were different. If any modern guard traveled (pun intended) back to the 60's to play a game, they would get called for palming every time they dribbled. Try and dribble with your palms facing the ground next time you play ball, and see how effective you are taking your man off the dribble. It's entirely different game when you can't palm the ball.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

------ copy paste from another site -----------

I've absolutely had it with the blind Wilt homerism and willful ignorance of the media. They are all textbook examples of people who look at the stats without placing them in the proper context, and I expect more from "professionals." Old school players like Kareem and Oscar don't know any better, so their ignorance is excusable, but not people who try to debate who the greatest players are.

Alas, I will take my shots at Kareem. First of all, that man's letter was one giant contradiction. Is he weighing total points or averages more heavily? I ask because he brings up Wilt's season averages to debunk the notion MJ is the best scorer ever, in the same letter that he not so subtly emphasizes the fact that he's the all-time leader in points scored.

Let's keep perspective here, Kareem. Or did you just happen to overlook the fact Jordan has a higher career, playoff and finals scoring average than Wilt while also accumulating more Playoff points than you and claiming the record you once held, in considerably less games?

Enough said there.

Going back to Wilt, why don't people call out this man for being the ultimate stat padder? He refused to play defense with five fouls, because of his having never fouled out in a game his entire career. He aggressively gave up perfectly good quality shots to pass the ball excessively, just to prove he could pass. In his 100 point game, his teammates were intentionally fouling the other team so that Wilt could have more possessions.

Why do we praise this as an example of all-time greatness? For example, I keep hearing about Wilt's 50 PPG season average over and over and over, but I never hear people mention the fact he took 40 shots to get those 50 points. To put it in perspective, since that's so important to Kareem, when Jordan averaged 37 PPG, he did so on 28 shots, and in my opinion, against much more competition than Wilt, with rules that favored his defender.

Do people really think a Jordan, Kobe or Shaq couldn't rack up close to 50 point averages in their prime, if they literally took 40 or more shots per game?. Wilt was the epitome of a statpadding ballhog, and the reason Jordan or Kobe never did that is because it's not winning basketball, and Wilt's lack of success in the post-season and against Bill Russell is a testament to that.

Why doesn't he have 50 PPG averages in the post-season? Why doesn't he lead in points in the post-season? Where did all his glorious stats go on the biggest stages? Oh, that's right. Wilt was all about me until the lights shined brightest and he pulled a Houdini on his team mates. Hell, Wilt wasn't even very efficient for a big man; he barely cracked 50% shooting in that 50 PPG season, whereas Shaq has had 58-60% averages for his entire career.

Wilt was such a selfish, choking statpadder, that there were teams who did not want him on their team in his prime. Can you imagine anyone not wanting a Prime Jordan or Prime Shaq if the option was available? Hell no.

To be perfectly honest, Wilt doesn't crack my top five list, and that's because he doesn't deserve it. He's easily one of the greatest athletes to have ever played his game, and it's wrong to hold his level of competition against him--to a degree--but why are we rewarding selfish statpadding so much? Wilt has accumulated the most meaningless, fraudulent statistics in NBA History, and it's a shame to the game of basketball that he is often mentioned in the same sentence as Jordan by old ignoramuses like Kareem who have no business trying to make informed analysis on other great players.

For the record, Kareem is the second best player of all time on my list. Doesn't make him any less wrong, however.

[deja vu]

^

:applause: :bowdown:

[Psileas]

------ copy paste from another site -----------

Blahblahblah...


AHAHAHA! A collection of Wilt myths that have been busted time and time again! But, yeah, putting all the mistakes together in full force must make them true, since "long reply" is supposed to also mean "good reply". :oldlol:


Old school players like Kareem and Oscar don't know any better, so their ignorance is excusable, but not people who try to debate who the greatest players are.

So, players and coaches who played/coached live with and against these legends don't know any better about greatness, but biased fans, who, usually, AT BEST, may have some obssession with "advanced stats", but apart from this have only a superficial knowledge about the game, do?
Sure, there are few people here and there who know what they're talking about, but I assure you, 1) you will find close to zero either here or in most boards. 2) the one who wrote this crap, be it you or whoever else, isn't close to be one of them.
Old players and players in general may not be the best an analyzing stats (neither is the vast majority of GOAT "debaters"), but they know quite a bit about greatness, and they don't need to recite any statline in order to do so. They live it.


Going back to Wilt, why don't people call out this man for being the ultimate stat padder?

Because stat padding is what keeps lots and lots of fans in their seats and the whole premise of the "amazing" NBA is partially based on a certain few superstars who love being "alpha dogs" a bit too much and who have made it seem illogical that anyone but them even coming close to jacking as many shots or control the ball nearly as much as they do. In fact, the level of the guys with the best stats compared to the level of the guys with the worst stats are much closer than their stats indicate.


He refused to play defense with five fouls, because of his having never fouled out in a game his entire career.

Like when?
Too bad for you that he's proven you wrong in one of his most crucial games in the 1972 Finals, when he dominates the OT defensively while playing with 5 fouls.
Newsflash, though: Great players do press the breaks defensively quite often while playing with 5 fouls. I've seen Bill Russell play more passive defense due to having 5 fouls.
BTW, I've read also the "4 foul" version, that Wilt was stopping playing defense at 4 fouls. Haters may need to make up their minds which numbers serve them better. :lol


He aggressively gave up perfectly good quality shots to pass the ball excessively, just to prove he could pass.

He's allegedly passed some easy shots sometimes, the same way someone like LeBron nowadays may have a good path to the basket, but instead he kicks it out so that he gets his 10th assist and the triple double.


In his 100 point game, his teammates were intentionally fouling the other team so that Wilt could have more possessions.

Not before his opponents started fouling other teammates of Wilt, so that they prevent the ball from getting to him. It's funny how this part of the story is always missing. Part of your objectivity I guess...


Why do we praise this as an example of all-time greatness? For example, I keep hearing about Wilt's 50 PPG season average over and over and over, but I never hear people mention the fact he took 40 shots to get those 50 points. To put it in perspective, since that's so important to Kareem, when Jordan averaged 37 PPG, he did so on 28 shots, and in my opinion, against much more competition than Wilt, with rules that favored his defender.

Different eras, different sets of offenses and defenses. Wilt has had seasons with better "points per shots" analogies than 1962. Funny that nobody remembers this.
"Rules that favored his defender"? How about officiating? Was it favoring the defender, as well? Was officiating favoring Wilt back then? And, talking about rules, you know who was the one who caused rules to change just in order to limit him offensively, right? What rules were implemented (from the NBA itself, not the Pistons ;) ) in order to limit Jordan's dominance?


Do people really think a Jordan, Kobe or Shaq couldn't rack up close to 50 point averages in their prime, if they literally took 40 or more shots per game?.

Let's play the same game: Do people really think players like Tony Parker, Rolando Blackman, young Ron Harper, prime Nash, prime Yao, and many others wouldn't be averaging close to what Jordan/Kobe/Shaq did if they got as many shots as them? Heck, these aren't even considered elite scorers. Now, elite, but less renown scorers like Dantley, Gervin, Barkley, King, would, by the same logic, often outscore Jordan and even more Kobe if they were taking the same numbers of shots.
Goes both ways.


Wilt was the epitome of a statpadding ballhog, and the reason Jordan or Kobe never did that is because it's not winning basketball, and Wilt's lack of success in the post-season and against Bill Russell is a testament to that.

Wrong, the reason is that in Jordan's and Kobe's time, the pace was lower and their playing time also lower.
Jordan and Kobe were major ballhogs. Just their team winning with them greatly reducing their shooting output was a non-option for them. That's why Kobe wasn't exactly the happiest person in the 2000 Lakers. They were winning big time, yet Shaq was by far their MVP, and that never sat well with him. Jordan, per Sam Smith, was complaining early in the 1990-91 season that Phil Jackson wasn't playing him enough to let him win the scoring title, so he started ballhogging his way into having 15-20 point 1st quarters, despite the fact that he wasn't known for doing this often. Let's not even go to Jordan's quest for triple-doubles in 1989, just in order to prove that he was as statistically versatile as Magic.
So much for these guys not being ballhogs in order to win, whereas their teams were the ones that tried to improvise strategies in order to win while keeping their star players' egos fulfilled...


Why doesn't he have 50 PPG averages in the post-season?

Way lower pace, facing the GOAT defender too often and being told by his coach to play a different role. It was implied by his coach once (unless someone shows otherwise) in that postseason to revert to his old role, and the result was 56 points/35 rebounds + defensive domination.


Why doesn't he lead in points in the post-season?

Because it weren't Baylor or West the ones guarded by Russell/Thurmond.


Where did all his glorious stats go on the biggest stages?

Leading the postseason multiple times in multiple categories while routinely being guarded by some of the GOAT defenders tell me his stats were right there.


Oh, that's right. Wilt was all about me until the lights shined brightest and he pulled a Houdini on his team mates.

When? Post all these examples of Wilt betraying his teammates in games and/or them calling him out. I bet your ignorance will lead you into mentioning games that only look "poor" without context. If you bother to make a list, that is.


Hell, Wilt wasn't even very efficient for a big man; he barely cracked 50% shooting in that 50 PPG season, whereas Shaq has had 58-60% averages for his entire career.

Yes, and he "barely" finished 2nd in FG% that season. And he "barely" led the league in PPG and FG% at the same time 4 times, aka, more than all the other players in NBA history combined. Dat chucker!


Wilt was such a selfish, choking statpadder, that there were teams who did not want him on their team in his prime. Can you imagine anyone not wanting a Prime Jordan or Prime Shaq if the option was available? Hell no.

Show us the references. The original ones, not claims made by people who boast they have film of Wilt's 70-point games. Based on facts though, seems like the Sixers and the Lakers weren't the ones we're talking about...


To be perfectly honest, Wilt doesn't crack my top five list, and that's because he doesn't deserve it. He's easily one of the greatest athletes to have ever played his game, and it's wrong to hold his level of competition against him--to a degree--but why are we rewarding selfish statpadding so much? Wilt has accumulated the most meaningless, fraudulent statistics in NBA History, and it's a shame to the game of basketball that he is often mentioned in the same sentence as Jordan by old ignoramuses like Kareem who have no business trying to make informed analysis on other great players.

Fans were always rewarding statpadding, because it happens all the damn time by some of the greatest names: Oscar, Jordan (again, an irony you mentioned him), Kobe, LeBron (even Kareem in certain occasions, when he was trying to protect his double digit scoring streak), have been statpadders and ballhogs, but the average fan has become convinced that their level of statpadding shouldn't be called such, because it has won them rings, despite the fact that it hasn't led them anywhere near that in large portions of their careers. People are supposed to learn from their mistakes, but since modern superstars are "too good for that crap", it's their teams that have to devise strategies to win while keeping their superstars ballhogging as much as possible. If Wilt isn't top-5 because of this, neither should be the guys I mentioned.


For the record, Kareem is the second best player of all time on my list.

Whatever. He's a GOAT candidate, but if I ask you to make his case over Wilt, I bet I'll still hear the same lies and inaccuracies, so I'd rather not bother.

[Psileas]

BTW, this 10,000 character limit joke has to end.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

BTW, this 10,000 character limit joke has to end.

:roll:

[LAZERUSS]

Going back to Wilt, why don't people call out this man for being the ultimate stat padder?

You mean in his 50.4 ppg season, when it was his COACH who asked him to take 40 FGAs per game? The better question would be,...why? Because his COACH took one look at that LAST PLACE roster that was surrounding Chamberlain, and told Wilt that the only hope for this crappy team was for Chamberlain to score. Ignornat fans forget that in the '61 playoffs, Wilt's two best teammates, Paul Arizin and Tom Gola shot .328 and .206 respectively from the field in that series, and aside from Wilt, the Warriors collectively shot .332.

BTW, in that '62 season, Wilt shot .506, while being swarmed and brutalized, while his presumably wide-open teamates collectively shot .402.


He refused to play defense with five fouls, because of his having never fouled out in a game his entire career

Nvere been proven...at all. And Psileas already gave you an example. But think about this...Wilt AVERAGED 2.0 PFs per game in his regular season career, and playing 45.8 mpg...and then in the post-season, he AVERAGED 2.5 PFs playing 47.2 mpg. Take a look at the Russell-Wilt h2h's. Chamberlain seldom was even remotely in foul trouble in those 143 games.Meanwhile Russell was battling with five fouls in many of them. Why?


Why do we praise this as an example of all-time greatness? For example, I keep hearing about Wilt's 50 PPG season average over and over and over, but I never hear people mention the fact he took 40 shots to get those 50 points. To put it in perspective, since that's so important to Kareem, when Jordan averaged 37 PPG, he did so on 28 shots, and in my opinion, against much more competition than Wilt, with rules that favored his defender

Funny, in MJ's greatest scoring season, and the same for Kobe in his greatest scoring season, BOTH of them took a larger percentage of their team's shots per minute played, than Wilt did in his '62 season.

BTW, in Kobe's highest scoring season, his team went 45-37, and flopped in the post-season, and in MJ's highest scoring season, his team went 40-42, and was swept in the first round. How about Wilt in '62? He led them to a 49-31 record, single-handedly carried them past Syracuse in the first round, and the lost a game seven to the HOF-laden 60-20 Celtics, by two points. BTW, in that post-season, Wilt's teammates collectively .354 from the floor.

[LAZERUSS]

Yep...Chamberlain was a complete bust in the post-season.

The man couldn't score when it counted.

Oh sure, he had complete playoffs of 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg. And yes, he had playof series of 37.0 ppg, 37.0 ppg, 38.6 ppg, and 38.7 ppg. Alright, he did have FOUR playoff games of 50+ (three of which were in "must-win" games, with a high of 56.) Sure, he had a 45-27 Finals game (on 20-27 shooting...and again, in a "must-win" game.)

Yes, he had 50 point playoff games against Russell, as well as 41, 42, 42, and 46 point games against him. Of course, he had entire playoff series against Russell of 28.0 ppg, 29.2 ppg, 30.1 ppg, 30.1 ppg, and 33.6 ppg.

I know, I know...he AVERAGED 32.8 ppg on .505 shooting in his first 52 playoff games (with 26.3 rpg), and in leagues that shot about .428 in that span. Oh, and in those 52 games, he outscored his opposing starting center in 50 of them, many by huge margins (e.g, 53-7.) BTW, his team was so horrible in '62-63, that they missed the playoffs,...in a season in which he averaged 44.8 ppg on .528 shooting.

And, I agree, he AVERAGED 30.4 ppg, on .515 shooting (in leagues that shot .430 in that time frame), in his first seven post-seasons, and covering 67 games (oh, and he also grabbed 27.0 rpg, handed out 4.5 apg, and probably blocked 8+ shots per game.)

Yes, he averaged 29.3 ppg on .518 shooting in his first eight post-seasons combined (and 26.3 rpg), all while outscoring his opposing center in 73 of them.

And yep, he played in 11 "at the brink of elimination" games in his post-season career, and averaged 29.9 ppg in them (outscoring his opposing center in them by a 29.9 to 9.8 margin)...all while shooting .581 and snaring 27 rpg.

But the evidence still shows that he "only" averaged 22.5 ppg in his playoff career. Clearly, his scoring was over-rated.

[k0kakw0rld]

Wilt is the greatest player of all time and it's not even close.
this.

[millwad]

Yep...Chamberlain was a complete bust in the post-season.

The man couldn't score when it counted.

Oh sure, he had complete playoffs of 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg. And yes, he had playof series of 37.0 ppg, 37.0 ppg, 38.6 ppg, and 38.7 ppg. Alright, he did have FOUR playoff games of 50+ (three of which were in "must-win" games, with a high of 56.) Sure, he had a 45-27 Finals game (on 20-27 shooting...and again, in a "must-win" game.)

Yes, he had 50 point playoff games against Russell, as well as 41, 42, 42, and 46 point games against him. Of course, he had entire playoff series against Russell of 28.0 ppg, 29.2 ppg, 30.1 ppg, 30.1 ppg, and 33.6 ppg.

I know, I know...he AVERAGED 32.8 ppg on .505 shooting in his first 52 playoff games (with 26.3 rpg), and in leagues that shot about .428 in that span. Oh, and in those 52 games, he outscored his opposing starting center in 50 of them, many by huge margins (e.g, 53-7.) BTW, his team was so horrible in '62-63, that they missed the playoffs,...in a season in which he averaged 44.8 ppg on .528 shooting.

And, I agree, he AVERAGED 30.4 ppg, on .515 shooting (in leagues that shot .430 in that time frame), in his first seven post-seasons, and covering 67 games (oh, and he also grabbed 27.0 rpg, handed out 4.5 apg, and probably blocked 8+ shots per game.)

Yes, he averaged 29.3 ppg on .518 shooting in his first eight post-seasons combined (and 26.3 rpg), all while outscoring his opposing center in 73 of them.

And yep, he played in 11 "at the brink of elimination" games in his post-season career, and averaged 29.9 ppg in them (outscoring his opposing center in them by a 29.9 to 9.8 margin)...all while shooting .581 and snaring 27 rpg.

But the evidence still shows that he "only" averaged 22.5 ppg in his playoff career. Clearly, his scoring was over-rated.

Wilt had a 17.2 point per game average in the playoffs a la his PER 36. WEAK..