Sabonis vs Wilt (Euroleague vs jlauber)

[Living Being]

Round 1: Fight!

Sabonis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06usV6451ik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXhFq7QRC0I

[Shade8780]

Sabonis was unreal in his prime, but not a ****ing top 6 player all-time :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

Round 1: Fight!

Sabonis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06usV6451ik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXhFq7QRC0I

LOL! Sabonis in '86...weak competition and way too many short nerdy white guys.

[Jameerthefear]

someone said in the comments of that video that sabonis would give Shaq fits. lol

[9erempiree]

I don't think Sabonis will beat Wilt but let's face it, Sabonis is a legend himself too.

[Living Being]

LOL! Sabonis in '86...weak competition and way too many short nerdy white guys.
He dominated one of the best athletes ever in David Robinson though. :biggums:

[Psycho]

He dominated one of the best athletes ever in David Robinson though. :biggums:

Lets face it, Robinson was in the Navy. Dude was a cornball nikka who would side with the cops against a brotha.

D-Rob was white as fk, and whites are not good atheletes, ergo, David Robinson was not athletic.

[LAZERUSS]

I'll defer to Psileas on this, since he lives in Europe, and actually saw Sabonis play...


Sabonis was never a big-time scorer, even in his prime. Here are his stats:

http://www.basketpedya.com/Acc002Inf...=1754&idioma=1

As you see, he averaged 20/11 in 1995 for Real, not 22/13. Actually, he only once got to 20+ ppg after 1990 and, mind you, this is still early/mid 90's European basketball, when it was possible for high scorers to average 30+ ppg, even at its strongest leagues. Getting 18-22 ppg for a good team was nice, but not something really rare and spectacular, as it would be today.

I've watched Sabonis a lot of times before coming to the NBA, since I'm European myself and from the games I saw, the kind of defense he played consisted mainly of just using his huge frame to cover space inside. At times he succeeded (depending on the competition), but he wasn't the intimidating defender that no-one would dare shoot over. Such a guy was Vrankovic or even Tkatchenko. Sabonis always seemed to care less about defense then them.
Leading the Euroleague in shot blocking is a nice little stat, but after the mid-90's, shot blocking numbers became so poor that they lost their meaning. It really isn't that important, because in Europe in the last decade there's much more to defense than blocked shots.




And if you are going to compare a COLLEGE Robinson, then how about an NBA Robinson vs Sabonis?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=robinda01&p2=sabonar01

Take a look some of those games! One game in which D-Rob outscored Sabonis 39-16 and made 17-31 shots. And their playoff matchup was just as one-sided.

Of course, the Sabonis-fans will say he was over-the-hill,...but they will never acknowledge that Robinson was far from his peak in '88.

[LAZERUSS]

Anhow about a WAY-PAST his prime Bob McAdoo?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=Euro-McAdoo


Although McAdoo played in Europe at the end of his career, he is viewed by many as the best American ever to play there.

In four seasons with Milano, McAdoo won two Italian league titles, the Italian Cup and back-to-back Euroleague crowns in 1987 and 1988. In the 1988 Euroleague Final, he scored 25 points and had 12 rebounds, as the Italians beat Maccabi Tel Aviv 90-84. It is no wonder he is still regarded as a legend in the city.




More on McAdoo
Born: September 25, 1951
Birthplace: Greensboro, North Carolina
Playing height/weight: 6-9, 210



Career: 1972-93
Teams: Vincennes University, University of North Carolina, Buffalo Braves, New York Knicks, Boston Celtics, Detroit Pistons, New Jersey Nets, Los Angeles Lakers, Philadelphia 76ers, Olimpia Milano (Italy), Filanto Forli (Italy), Teamsystem Fabriano (Italy)





McAdoo's success should not have been a surprise given his achievements in the NBA, which included Rookie of the Year with the Buffalo Braves (1973), three consecutive scoring titles, five All-Star selections and two NBA championships with the L.A. Lakers in 1982 and 1985. He was also the league MVP in 1975 after he averaged 34.5 points, 14.1 rebounds and 2.12 blocks a game.



After his glorious run with Milan, McAdoo spent three more seasons in the Italian league before retiring in 1993 at the age of 41.

[Sakkreth]

I'll defer to Psileas on this, since he lives in Europe, and actually saw Sabonis play...



And if you are going to compare a COLLEGE Robinson, then how about an NBA Robinson vs Sabonis?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=robinda01&p2=sabonar01

Take a look some of those games! One game in which D-Rob outscored Sabonis 39-16 and made 17-31 shots. And their playoff matchup was just as one-sided.

Of course, the Sabonis-fans will say he was over-the-hill,...but they will never acknowledge that Robinson was far from his peak in '88.


All of this is completely irrelevant he's talking about 90s Sabonis which was already heavily injured, still best player in Europe though. Real prime was 86-87, he never hit his full potential due to injuries. There wasn't player as skilled and big at the same time as him ever, and before injuries he had good athleticism too. He was as close to complete as you can get. And saying that Vrankovic and Tkatchenko were better defenders is laughable at best, it's like saying that Krstic is better defender than Marc Gasol.

[Living Being]

I'll defer to Psileas on this, since he lives in Europe, and actually saw Sabonis play...



And if you are going to compare a COLLEGE Robinson, then how about an NBA Robinson vs Sabonis?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=robinda01&p2=sabonar01

Take a look some of those games! One game in which D-Rob outscored Sabonis 39-16 and made 17-31 shots. And their playoff matchup was just as one-sided.

Of course, the Sabonis-fans will say he was over-the-hill,...but they will never acknowledge that Robinson was far from his peak in '88.
Sabonis was much further from his prime due to injury in those head-to-head's than DRob was from his in '88, but they are actually about the same age, so ignoring 1988 Olympics doesn't make sense. Also, DRob was getting like 1.5-2x the number of minutes in their NBA matchups. Sabonis was probably using a cane.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

The best way to build an NBA legacy is apparently to not prove you can play in the NBA at the top of your game.

There are people on this board he actually think Sabonis would be the GOAT center if he came earlier or Bias would be the GOAT player if he didn't OD.

[LAZERUSS]

Just curious...can someone post the '88 Olympic numbers between D-Rob and this so-called prime Sabonis?

Forget it. Found them.

Sabonis with 13 points and 13 rebounds, and Robinson with 19 points and 12 rebounds...

[madmax]

All of this is completely irrelevant he's talking about 90s Sabonis which was already heavily injured, still best player in Europe though. Real prime was 86-87, he never hit his full potential due to injuries. There wasn't player as skilled and big at the same time as him ever, and before injuries he had good athleticism too. He was as close to complete as you can get. And saying that Vrankovic and Tkatchenko were better defenders is laughable at best, it's like saying that Krstic is better defender than Marc Gasol.

no, it's not laughable at all, as they were indeed better defenders than him:confusedshrug: Sabonis was never a defensive wall like you would expect from a guy that big and that skilled. Sure, he blocked plenty of shots by the virtue of being 7'3, but blocking shots is only a part of defense to begin with, not to mention laughable competition in the late 80's - early 90's Europe.

[millwad]

Just curious...can someone post the '88 Olympic numbers between D-Rob and this so-called prime Sabonis?

I *** in your wife.

Oh, and here is the stats for both Robinson and Sabonis from the semi-final of
'88 Olympics.

Sabonis: 13 points, 13 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 1 block and 1 turnover.
Robinson: 19 points, 12 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 blocks and 2 turnovers.

Source:
http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/ro/david-robinson-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/sa/arvydas-sabonis-1.html

Seems like Sabonis and Wilt are equally overrated.

[Living Being]

Just curious...can someone post the '88 Olympic numbers between D-Rob and this so-called prime Sabonis?

Forget it. Found them.

Sabonis with 13 points and 13 rebounds, and Robinson with 19 points and 12 rebounds...
Just FYI, Sabonis was just post-achilles rupture at that 1988 game.

In 1986 World Championships:
Robinson 20 points, 7 rebounds, 4 blocks
Sabonis 16 points, 13 rebounds and 4 blocks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0mwuNWNSgeQ#t=0s

[Euroleague]

All of this is completely irrelevant he's talking about 90s Sabonis which was already heavily injured, still best player in Europe though. Real prime was 86-87, he never hit his full potential due to injuries. There wasn't player as skilled and big at the same time as him ever, and before injuries he had good athleticism too. He was as close to complete as you can get. And saying that Vrankovic and Tkatchenko were better defenders is laughable at best, it's like saying that Krstic is better defender than Marc Gasol.

STOP DOING DRUGS

[Rooster]

He dominated one of the best athletes ever in David Robinson though. :biggums:

He never dominated the Admiral. That was a myth spread by the viral of YouTube video with Sabas highlights.

[jongib369]

Round 1: Fight!

Sabonis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06usV6451ik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXhFq7QRC0I
Not going to lie I've always wanted to see them argue about something :lol

[CavaliersFTW]

He dominated one of the best athletes ever in David Robinson though. :biggums:
David Robinson only weighed 226lbs during the 1988 Olympics

[BoutPractice]

Sabonis is slightly overrated as an overall player, but underrated as a passer. He had unreal vision from the post - I wish someone would put together a highlight vid of his greatest assists, it'd be amazing to watch...

[KNOW1EDGE]

someone said in the comments of that video that sabonis would give Shaq fits. lol

As a Blazer fan, I can tell you Sabas DID give Shaq fits, and that was when he was WAY past his prime.

In his prime, Sabas was a more skilled basketball player than Shaq. IMO.

Shaq was just strong, he didn't have the shot, touch, footwork or passing ability that Sabas had, he was just stronger.

[bdreason]

I'll probably get flamed, but I think Sabonis gets vastly overrated. Too much "would've, could've, should've" involved for me to rank him amongst other great players in the sport.

[Round Mound]

I *** in your wife.

Oh, and here is the stats for both Robinson and Sabonis from the semi-final of
'88 Olympics.

Sabonis: 13 points, 13 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 1 block and 1 turnover.
Robinson: 19 points, 12 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 blocks and 2 turnovers.

Source:
http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/ro/david-robinson-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/sa/arvydas-sabonis-1.html

Seems like Sabonis and Wilt are equally overrated.

This Was Not the 1986 Sabonis. His Injuries Happened in 1987. Prior to That He Was Considered The Best Center in the World By Most Experts.

[KNOW1EDGE]

I'll probably get flamed, but I think Sabonis gets vastly overrated. Too much "would've, could've, should've" involved for me to rank him amongst other great players in the sport.

I think the problem is most people never saw him in his prime, cuz he never played a minute of NBA basketball in his prime.

Despite the fact that he was way past his prime, and had injuries, he was still the most versatile and talented center in the NBA. IMO.

Shaq was the most dominant, but Sabas was basically the only center who could guard him. And Sabas basketball skill was far superior to Shaqs. Sabas could pass and see the floor better than most guards, he could shoot the 3 better than most guards, he could block shots, he had amazing footwork and a great hook shot.

Im a Blazer fan, I saw A LOT of Sabas and I am def biased.
He is one of my fav players of all time.

[bdreason]

I think the problem is most people never saw him in his prime, cuz he never played a minute of NBA basketball in his prime.

Despite the fact that he was way past his prime, and had injuries, he was still the most versatile and talented center in the NBA. IMO.

Shaq was the most dominant, but Sabas was basically the only center who could guard him. And Sabas basketball skill was far superior to Shaqs. Sabas could pass and see the floor better than most guards, he could shoot the 3 better than most guards, he could block shots, he had amazing footwork and a great hook shot.

Im a Blazer fan, I saw A LOT of Sabas and I am def biased.
He is one of my fav players of all time.


I watched him play plenty in Portland, and yes, we all wish he would have played in the NBA in his prime... but he didn't. He played out his prime in a far inferior league (especially in 80's), and never did enough in the NBA (or the Olympics) for me to rank him amongst the best to ever play the game.

I'd be interested to hear where you think he should rank though. If old-Sabonis was apparently "the only player that could match Shaq", I'm guessing you consider him at least a top 20 player all-time?

[KNOW1EDGE]

I'd be interested to hear where you think he should rank though. If old-Sabonis was apparently "the only player that could match Shaq", I'm guessing you consider him at least a top 20 player all-time?

No, I don't consider him top 20 player of all time. Being able to guard Shaq doesn't make you a top 20 player of all time. Id put him in the top 50 no doubt.

Unquestionably top 20 center of all time. top 10 IMO

But really though, who could guard Shaq? Or give him a run for his money? Sabas did it better than anyone I ever saw. IMO and that was when he was old and worn down. In his prime, he would have dominated the NBA.

Again though, I am very biased and literally watched almost every game he played in the NBA. IMO he was way more talented than Shaq, just not as strong, therefore not as dominant. Better shooter, better footwork, better team player, better passer, better vision, better hook shot.

And just like people hate on Wilt, I don't see how you can hold it against a guy for the people he played against, or the "weak" era he was a part of.

[Harison]

Sabonis was a bigger and better version of Bill Walton. Some fans posting stats here to discredit Sabonis forget two important factors:

1) Stats dont cover full players impact, like Walton's stats were nowhere near impressive either, yet he was a dominant force in his short prime to anyone who watched him play. Walton himself said, Sabonis was a better passer as well.

2) these Sabonis stats were of post-injury, broken down player who never saw his full potential. Blazers doctor after examination said he was surprised Sabas could walk at all, let alone play basketball at NBA level.

Example - Waltons MVP season (over prime Kareem, Dr. J, etc) per36:

20.5/14.3 at 55% TS.

Sabonis, when he arrived to NBA (barely walking version) per36:

22.0/12.2 at 62% TS.

Any expert who watched Sabonis play in his youth, claim he was one of the best centers, ever. He was still solid in NBA, despite all odds. Therefore I dont get guys who want to discredit Sabonis, obviously they havent watched him play in his youth, nor watched his performance on Blazers with understanding the extent of his injuries.

[LJJ]

Lakas doesn't like to hype players who played in both the Euroleague and the NBA. He will either say they are overrated and were never that good in the Euroleague (Anthony Parker, Prigioni, etc, etc), or he will find some off the court reason why they sucked in the NBA comparatively (V-Span, Jasi, etc, etc).

[plowking]

someone said in the comments of that video that sabonis would give Shaq fits. lol

The ignorant 14 year old laughing at stuff like this, when you're in the Wilt/Russell thread trying to school people on them. You're 14, never seen any of them play, never probably bothered to watch any highlights, and you're blasting people for ignorant comments in one thread, when you're making them here.

[plowking]

I'll defer to Psileas on this, since he lives in Europe, and actually saw Sabonis play...



And if you are going to compare a COLLEGE Robinson, then how about an NBA Robinson vs Sabonis?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=robinda01&p2=sabonar01

Take a look some of those games! One game in which D-Rob outscored Sabonis 39-16 and made 17-31 shots. And their playoff matchup was just as one-sided.

Of course, the Sabonis-fans will say he was over-the-hill,...but they will never acknowledge that Robinson was far from his peak in '88.

You're an absolute idiot with a bias spreading your bullshit propaganda.

Always an excuse for Wilt when his stats suffer, yet you safeguard other player excuses with "well his fans will say this despite"...

Sabonis was never a big scorer in Europe because its a different game. Asking one of the biggest Wilt fans on the board in Psieles who he thinks was better isn't going to tell you anything. Sabonis would have been a scoring machine in the NBA during the 80's and 90's where the ball was played through the elbows and low block. Would have been mentioned in the same tier as all the other greats back then like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, etc. He was probably better than all of them outside of Shaq. Even then, it would be interesting.

[Euroleague]

As a Blazer fan, I can tell you Sabas DID give Shaq fits, and that was when he was WAY past his prime.

In his prime, Sabas was a more skilled basketball player than Shaq. IMO.

Shaq was just strong, he didn't have the shot, touch, footwork or passing ability that Sabas had, he was just stronger.

Sabonis was a really tough match up for Shaq without a doubt. But young Sabobnis would have done worse.

All this pre injury stuff is extremely blown out of proportion. After the injuries Sabonis became more of a Shaq like player (with shooting). He got slower and got much huger.

Old Sabonis was probably like 7-3 and 350 pounds. That's why he gave Shaq so many problems. He was enormous and incredibly strong.

Young Sabonis would have been nowhere near enough to cause Shaq as many problems. Pre injury Sabonis would have been doing much worse against Shaq by comparison.

It's just simple truth, and makes these comments about "young Sabonis" and "pre injury Sabonis" would have done this or that, because "old and after injury Sabonis could even make things hard for Shaq".

Just total example of typical psychosis of the average NBA only fan.

[Euroleague]

I'll probably get flamed, but I think Sabonis gets vastly overrated. Too much "would've, could've, should've" involved for me to rank him amongst other great players in the sport.

Hypocrite much?

I said this when I rated some Euroleague players in the 80s as better than him, and you went nuts and called me a liar and a delusional troll.

:facepalm

[Euroleague]

Lakas doesn't like to hype players who played in both the Euroleague and the NBA. He will either say they are overrated and were never that good in the Euroleague (Anthony Parker, Prigioni, etc, etc), or he will find some off the court reason why they sucked in the NBA comparatively (V-Span, Jasi, etc, etc).

STOP LYING

I NEVER said any such thing.

GOD DAMN YOU ASSHOLE

[Sakkreth]

Why this troll/psychopath from arkansas that claims to be spanish, but for some reason overhypes greeks to unseen proportions and has shit basketball knowledge isn't banned yet ?

Yes this been asked many times, but there is no reason not to ban him, especially when he recently posted that he's done with ish, wow that lasted long...

[Rooster]

Sabonis was a really tough match up for Shaq without a doubt. But young Sabobnis would have done worse.

All this pre injury stuff is extremely blown out of proportion. After the injuries Sabonis became more of a Shaq like player (with shooting). He got slower and got much huger.

Old Sabonis was probably like 7-3 and 350 pounds. That's why he gave Shaq so many problems. He was enormous and incredibly strong.

Young Sabonis would have been nowhere near enough to cause Shaq as many problems. Pre injury Sabonis would have been doing much worse against Shaq by comparison.

It's just simple truth, and makes these comments about "young Sabonis" and "pre injury Sabonis" would have done this or that, because "old and after injury Sabonis could even make things hard for Shaq".

Just total example of typical psychosis of the average NBA only fan.

Any version of Sabas would have rape Sofo and Bourosis combined.:roll:

He was better than any Greek player.:oldlol:

He was overrated but still decent NBA player out of his prime.

Something Sofo can't do even on summer league.:no:

Also his corpse won the Euroleague MVP. LMAO

[Jameerthefear]

The ignorant 14 year old laughing at stuff like this, when you're in the Wilt/Russell thread trying to school people on them. You're 14, never seen any of them play, never probably bothered to watch any highlights, and you're blasting people for ignorant comments in one thread, when you're making them here.
Salty much? No one on this forum has seen Wilt play (if that's who you were talking about) I watch highlight videos all the time. I try to make up for the information that I didn't get to see. Stop being an elitist douchebag.

[Guy Ledouche]

I'll probably get flamed, but I think Sabonis gets vastly overrated. Too much "would've, could've, should've" involved for me to rank him amongst other great players in the sport.

I agree with this 100%. You should see those Lithuanians on youtube, who claim Sabonis would have dominated Shaq. Laughable.

[Euroleague]

Any version of Sabas would have rape Sofo and Bourosis combined.:roll:

He was better than any Greek player.:oldlol:

He was overrated but still decent NBA player out of his prime.

Something Sofo can't do even on summer league.:no:

Also his corpse won the Euroleague MVP. LMAO

Euroleague MVP award did not even exist until after Sabonis retired.

[LAZERUSS]

You're an absolute idiot with a bias spreading your bullshit propaganda.

Always an excuse for Wilt when his stats suffer, yet you safeguard other player excuses with "well his fans will say this despite"...

Sabonis was never a big scorer in Europe because its a different game. Asking one of the biggest Wilt fans on the board in Psieles who he thinks was better isn't going to tell you anything. Sabonis would have been a scoring machine in the NBA during the 80's and 90's where the ball was played through the elbows and low block. Would have been mentioned in the same tier as all the other greats back then like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, etc. He was probably better than all of them outside of Shaq. Even then, it would be interesting.

First of all, I really have no dog in this fight. If someone can prove a more experienced and physically developed Sabonis somehow outplayed a much younger (and perhaps considerably smaller Robinson...I believe he was less than 6-8 when he went to the Naval Academy)...so what? The numbers that we have certainly don't even prove that. But, the numbers from their NBA days give D-Rob a solid edge. Here again, if an 80's Sabonis was god-like, great. But from what I have read, and watched, he was a skilled, and powerful man, but with limited mobility, speed, and athleticism. Furthermore, and much like almost every other 7-3 player hat has ever played the game, he was injury-prone.

And while you may want to believe that a Sabonis was better than an NBA Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing...you wll have to provide me, and other's here, much more conclusive evidence.

In any case, this supposedly totally dominating Sabonis never appeared in an NBA uniform.

[Dr.J4ever]

Why this troll/psychopath from arkansas that claims to be spanish, but for some reason overhypes greeks to unseen proportions and has shit basketball knowledge isn't banned yet ?

Yes this been asked many times, but there is no reason not to ban him, especially when he recently posted that he's done with ish, wow that lasted long...

He really should be banned. The guy is shameless, and destroys perfectly good threads and discussions.

[plowking]

Stop being an elitist douchebag.

Applies both ways kid. You get a taste of your own medicine and you can't handle it.

[poido123]

Why this troll/psychopath from arkansas that claims to be spanish, but for some reason overhypes greeks to unseen proportions and has shit basketball knowledge isn't banned yet ?

Yes this been asked many times, but there is no reason not to ban him, especially when he recently posted that he's done with ish, wow that lasted long...

He provides "variety" to ISH. Can't say there's another nutjob Euroleague character on ISH...

I think it's alot to do with creating discussion on Euroleague etc, as to why he hasn't been banned yet. Jeff obviously sees value in a poster that talks about other basketball leagues outside of the NBA, while also having the added benefit of the guy trolling hard and getting people talking about him and in his threads...

[Rooster]

First of all, I really have no dog in this fight. If someone can prove a more experienced and physically developed Sabonis somehow outplayed a much younger (and perhaps considerably smaller Robinson...I believe he was less than 6-8 when he went to the Naval Academy)...so what? The numbers that we have certainly don't even prove that. But, the numbers from their NBA days give D-Rob a solid edge. Here again, if an 80's Sabonis was god-like, great. But from what I have read, and watched, he was a skilled, and powerful man, but with limited mobility, speed, and athleticism. Furthermore, and much like almost every other 7-3 player hat has ever played the game, he was injury-prone.

And while you may want to believe that a Sabonis was better than an NBA Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing...you wll have to provide me, and other's here, much more conclusive evidence.

In any case, this supposedly totally dominating Sabonis never appeared in an NBA uniform.

Sabonis never dominated Robinson in either of their matchup. A lot of people here overrate Sabonis because they can easy used his injury as an excuse.

[Rooster]

You're an absolute idiot with a bias spreading your bullshit propaganda.

Always an excuse for Wilt when his stats suffer, yet you safeguard other player excuses with "well his fans will say this despite"...

Sabonis was never a big scorer in Europe because its a different game. Asking one of the biggest Wilt fans on the board in Psieles who he thinks was better isn't going to tell you anything. Sabonis would have been a scoring machine in the NBA during the 80's and 90's where the ball was played through the elbows and low block. Would have been mentioned in the same tier as all the other greats back then like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, etc. He was probably better than all of them outside of Shaq. Even then, it would be interesting.

The corpse of Mc Adoo dominated the Euroleague in those era. If Sabonis was that great like those aforementioned centers, he would have done the same.

[boozehound]

someone said in the comments of that video that sabonis would give Shaq fits. lol
uhm, he would. hell, washed up sabas on two broke knees did pretty decently against him. a prime sabonis is probably as good a center as we could ever see (prime walton, russell in the mix).

[KNOW1EDGE]

Sabonis is, by far, the best passing big man of all time. And the only center in his era, who could guard, and also score on Shaq.

Before he got injured he was lighter and more mobile. After his injuries, he put on weight and became a better post defender. Even past his prime, his NBA days, he was AMAZING.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO3IundC-e4

[CavaliersFTW]

Sabonis is, by far, the best passing big man of all time. And the only center in his era, who could guard, and also score on Shaq.

Before he got injured he was lighter and more mobile. After his injuries, he put on weight and became a better post defender. Even past his prime, his NBA days, he was AMAZING.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO3IundC-e4
:facepalm He's up there among the best... but there's absolutely nothing "by far" about it.

[KNOW1EDGE]

:facepalm He's up there among the best... but there's absolutely nothing "by far" about it.

So then, name 1 center who is even in the discussion please. Ill wait.

[Marchesk]

So then, name 1 center who is even in the discussion please. Ill wait.

Russell, 4.3 apg for his career. And unlike other stats from that era, assists are about the same as today. That's because the rules for being awarding an assist were stricter, which equalizes for pace.

[KNOW1EDGE]

Russell, 4.3 apg for his career. And unlike other stats from that era, assists are about the same as today. That's because the rules for being awarding an assist were stricter, which equalizes for pace.

Russell was a very good passer. And im not specifically talking just assists, im talking passing the basketball, whether it led to a bucket, or an open shot, or another pass being made.

Watch highlights of Sabonis passing the basketball, how crafty, unorthodox, unexpected and unbelievable his passes were, then watch Russell, and try and tell me Bill was a better passer than Arvydas.

No center can even come close to how good of a passer Sabonis was, I don't care if Sabas averaged 0 assists per game, and Joe Shmoe averaged 100 assists per game, Sabas was a better passer.

I am extremely biased because I grew up watching that era of Blazers, Sabas, Sheed, Stoudamire, Pippen, Steve Smith, Brian Grant etc etc

I remember being AMAZED and mesmerized at the way Sabas passed the ball, behind the back, over his shoulder, over his head, between a defenders legs, 2 hands, 1 hand, bounce pass, etc etc. He was so creative.

[CavaliersFTW]

Russell was a very good passer. And im not specifically talking just assists, im talking passing the basketball, whether it led to a bucket, or an open shot, or another pass being made.

Watch highlights of Sabonis passing the basketball, how crafty, unorthodox, unexpected and unbelievable his passes were, then watch Russell, and try and tell me Bill was a better passer than Arvydas.

No center can even come close to how good of a passer Sabonis was, I don't care if Sabas averaged 0 assists per game, and Joe Shmoe averaged 100 assists per game, Sabas was a better passer.

I am extremely biased because I grew up watching that era of Blazers, Sabas, Sheed, Stoudamire, Pippen, Steve Smith, Brian Grant etc etc

I remember being AMAZED and mesmerized at the way Sabas passed the ball, behind the back, over his shoulder, over his head, between a defenders legs, 2 hands, 1 hand, bounce pass, etc etc. He was so creative.
There are no "highlights" of Bill Russell passing. Nobody has made a Bill Russell passing highlight video yet. Nor for Wilt Chamberlain. Nor for Bill Walton. Nor for Kareem. All 4 of which I consider elite passing centers. I've seen Wilt routinely take just as risky passes as I see Sabonis do. I've seen Walton execute just as blindingly fast touch-passes as Sabonis. And Wilt averaged way way more assists in his peak - was actually statistically the greatest passing center in NBA history when that was his role on his team. There's little reason to believe "Sabonis and not close" unless you've got a limited exposure to the other great passing big men of NBA history. Heck, even I have to admit I've got limited exposure to Walton, but from the little bit I've seen I know he's at least in the debate with guys like Wilt, Russell, Sabonis, Kareem etc

[KNOW1EDGE]

Its just a matter of opinion.

Im not claiming it is an un-disputable fact, just sharing my opinion in a sports forum intended for sharing ones opinion.

I have seen lots of Bill Walton highlights, admittedly not much Russell or Wilt highlights. And if you haven't seen their highlights how can you say they are better, or even in the discussion?

IMO, its not even close, Sabas is the best passing big man of all time.

I am very biased, like I said before, I can admit that.

Until I SEE a big man display the passing prowess that Sabas had, I will retain my opinion that Sabas is the best passing big man of all time, and its not even close.

[sportjames23]

Lets face it, Robinson was in the Navy. Dude was a cornball nikka who would side with the cops against a brotha.

D-Rob was white as fk, and whites are not good atheletes, ergo, David Robinson was not athletic.


:biggums:

[sportjames23]

STOP LYING

I NEVER said any such thing.

GOD DAMN YOU ASSHOLE


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[sportjames23]

Why this troll/psychopath from arkansas that claims to be spanish, but for some reason overhypes greeks to unseen proportions and has shit basketball knowledge isn't banned yet ?

Yes this been asked many times, but there is no reason not to ban him, especially when he recently posted that he's done with ish, wow that lasted long...


LOL, I know, right? :oldlol:

[Euroleague]

So then, name 1 center who is even in the discussion please. Ill wait.

Sabonis was a great passing center. Probably the best at it I ever saw. But Divac was close.

[Rooster]

Sabonis was a great passing center. Probably the best at it I ever saw. But Divac was close.

Proven NBA players.

Greece has none :oldlol:

Unless you want to transplant Seikaly.:roll:

[Euroleague]

Proven NBA players.

Greece has none :oldlol:

Unless you want to transplant Seikaly.:roll:

"Transplant"......um no. Seikaly was GREEK. USA is the one that "transplanted" him.

Syracuse forced him to leave Greece like 2 days before he could start training with Greek national team or they would cut his scholarship, and then Team USA stole him as a "naturalized player".

Anyway, AFTER he played for USA, he spent several years playing with Greek national team every summer. But the FIBA rules would not allow him to play for Greece, because USA blocked his clearance letter.

So yeah, it was USA THAT "TRANSPLANTED" him.

USA stole the probably best Greek center of all time.

[Rooster]

"Transplant"......um no. Seikaly was GREEK. USA is the one that "transplanted" him.

Syracuse forced him to leave Greece like 2 days before he could start training with Greek national team or they would cut his scholarship, and then Team USA stole him as a "naturalized player".

Anyway, AFTER he played for USA, he spent several years playing with Greek national team every summer. But the FIBA rules would not allow him to play for Greece, because USA blocked his clearance letter.

So yeah, it was USA THAT "TRANSPLANTED" him.

USA stole the probably best Greek center of all time.

The best Greek center of all Time.:oldlol:

Was a transplanted Lebanese.:oldlol:

No wonder you guys never win an Olympic hoop medal

Because Seikaly is your best center of all time.:oldlol:

[Euroleague]

The best Greek center of all Time.:oldlol:

Was a transplanted Lebanese.:oldlol:

No wonder you guys never win an Olympic hoop medal

Because Seikaly is your best center of all time.:oldlol:

His mother was Greek. The family lived in Greece and still does. They lived there before he was born in Lebanon. He was not a "transplant".

if he was a "transplant" than so were Kyrie Irving Dominique Wilkins, Carlos Boozer, Steve Kerr, etc. to Team USA.

Pretty pathetic Team USA has to "transplant" so many players.

[SpanishACB]

what made Sabonis different to other centers (specially in the NBA) was his understanding of the game and his IQ. This directly affected his passing ability.

Guy could play PG if he wanted (as long as someone else ran the court :D)

[Euroleague]

what made Sabonis different to other centers (specially in the NBA) was his understanding of the game and his IQ. This directly affected his passing ability.

Guy could play PG if he wanted (as long as someone else ran the court :D)

He did play point center a lot of times in the Soviet set.

[jongib369]

He did play point center a lot of times in the Soviet set.
How good do you think these players are / which would be the best fit for an international team you know of

Jerry West https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEzwR1a8KuA

Oscar Robertson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecgwZVnvPIc

Bob Pettit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTIrG1Xn1Jk

Jerry Lucas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baMS2VvkdSA

[Rooster]

His mother was Greek. The family lived in Greece and still does. They lived there before he was born in Lebanon. He was not a "transplant".

if he was a "transplant" than so were Kyrie Irving Dominique Wilkins, Carlos Boozer, Steve Kerr, etc. to Team USA.

Pretty pathetic Team USA has to "transplant" so many players.

So let me guess.:oldlol:

The only players that can play in the NBA are

Transplanted Lebanese

And Transplanted Serbian

Hmm the real Greeks got rejected.