Top ten players in the NBA?

[retaxis]

we haven't had one of these in a while and everyone can create their list with whatever assumptions based on health e.g. westbrook/rose/kobe for this upcoming season

1. LBJ
2. Durant
3. Howard
4. Carmelo
5. Westbrook
6. Rondo
7. Rose
8. TP
9. Wade
10. Paul George

[The JKidd Kid]

That is one of the worst top 10s I've seen in a long time.

When Healthy
1. Lebron (Best player in the league)
2. Durant (30 PPG on 50, 40, 90)
3. Dwight (Dominant defensive presence)
4. Kobe (Amazing scorer plus elite D)
5. Paul (20 and 10 with great D)
6. Duncan (Amazing post game and dominating D)
7. Westbrook (Great all around freak athlete)
8. Melo (Most versatile scorer in the league)
9. Williams (Most versatile player at PG)
10. Rose (Freak athlete and great finisher)

[JerryWest]

Howard? Seriously?! :facepalm

[retaxis]

Don't hate on Howard folks. He is by far the best big man in the game and when healthy (which he is this year) he will be not only lead the league in rebounds and blocks but also give you 22 points a game on very good percentage. Free throws? Yeah he can't make them but lets wait and see. This guy and Lebron both led very very bad players to the damn finals.

[retaxis]

That is one of the worst top 10s I've seen in a long time.

When Healthy
1. Lebron (Best player in the league)
2. Durant (30 PPG on 50, 40, 90)
3. Dwight (Dominant defensive presence)
4. Kobe (Amazing scorer plus elite D)
5. Paul (20 and 10 with great D)
6. Duncan (Amazing post game and dominating D)
7. Westbrook (Great all around freak athlete)
8. Melo (Most versatile scorer in the league)
9. Williams (Most versatile player at PG)
10. Rose (Freak athlete and great finisher)
Only difference between our list is that you had Kobe and assumed that he will play better then Westbrook/Melo/Rose/Paul at 35 years old coming off a achilles rupture. You also put a 37 year old Duncan who plays very limited minutes above most most of the said above players for the upcoming season. Can you explain?

[JerryWest]

22ppg is not impressive.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Duncan is definitely top 10 still. I would takeout Melo and put George into the top 10.

[The JKidd Kid]

Only difference between our list is that you had Kobe and assumed that he will play better then Westbrook/Melo/Rose/Paul at 35 years old coming off a achilles rupture. You also put a 37 year old Duncan who plays very limited minutes above most most of the said above players for the upcoming season. Can you explain?

Because they were elite players last season and they arnt going to just drop off, and you have to assume they will be elite until they actually show decline. Do you think that NBA coaches are thinking that Kobe is going to suck when he comes back? No, they're preparing for his same old dominant self.

I also didn't put Rondo, who is one of the most flawed players in the league, at #6.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Only difference between our list is that you had Kobe and assumed that he will play better then Westbrook/Melo/Rose/Paul at 35 years old coming off a achilles rupture. You also put a 37 year old Duncan who plays very limited minutes above most most of the said above players for the upcoming season. Can you explain?

There still isn't a PF in the league I would take over Duncan when it matters. Even at 37 and limited minutes, he is the best.

[retaxis]

Because they were elite players last season and they arnt going to just drop off, and you have to assume they will be elite until they actually show decline. Do you think that NBA coaches are thinking that Kobe is going to suck when he comes back? No, they're preparing for his same old dominant self.

I also didn't put Rondo, who is one of the most flawed players in the league, at #6.
I can't agree with the Kobe opinion because of the injury and I question his defence last year but each to their own opinion. I don't understand what your talking about what coaches are 'thinking or preparing. From most peoples perspective including people in the NBA like Chuck and etc the Lakers are going to 'stink bro'.

P.S Rondo has some serious skills and he plays very hard in the play offs. Wouldn't underestimate him he gets triple doubles easier then Lebron.

[retaxis]

There still isn't a PF in the league I would take over Duncan when it matters. Even at 37 and limited minutes, he is the best.
He is the best PF to play the game but that doesn't mean he is top ten this upcoming season. Spurs has a good system which benefits TP and then Duncan when defence collapses on TP. Remember Timmy is playing off TP not the other way around anymore.

[SilkkTheShocker]

He is the best PF in the game but that doesn't mean he is top ten this upcoming season. Spurs has a good system which benefits TP and then Duncan when defence collapses on TP. Remember Timmy is playing off TP.

I understand. I just have trouble keeping him out of the top 10. But you make good points also. Im not much of list maker myself for these things anyways. I tend to get stuck on where I put the point guards.

[andremiller07]

He is the best PF to play the game but that doesn't mean he is top ten this upcoming season. Spurs has a good system which benefits TP and then Duncan when defence collapses on TP. Remember Timmy is playing off TP not the other way around anymore.
Dwight Howard gets spoon fed religiously and mainly only makes easy baskets I don't see how you can penalize Duncan for that yet completely ignore the fact Dwight needs a ton of spoon feeding and can't pass out of doubles.

[TimmyDuncan]

Dwight Howard gets spoon fed religiously and mainly only makes easy baskets I don't see how you can penalize Duncan for that yet completely ignore the fact Dwight needs a ton of spoon feeding and can't pass out of doubles.

Elites guards have more impact on the game than elites Big in this Era but elites Big are way more difficult to find

[SilkkTheShocker]

Dwight Howard gets spoon fed religiously and mainly only makes easy baskets I don't see how you can penalize Duncan for that yet completely ignore the fact Dwight needs a ton of spoon feeding and can't pass out of doubles.

Dwight is probably the most criticized superstar in the game. Im not saying you're wrong. But you have always had kind of a bias towards athletic big men.

[Graviton]

Ranking should be done based on gaps since most of the players aren't that much ahead of each other.

1) Lebron

huge gap

2) Durant

little gap

3-7) Kobe/Wade/Paul/Westbrook/Melo/Deron/Rose/Parker/playoff Rondo are in the same tier if all healthy. Harden still unproven though.

8-10) Howard/Duncan/Noah in a similar tier as far as bigs go

Issue with the PGs/SGs is the fact almost every one of them can be locked up with a bigger/longer but just as athletic defender on them. Westbrook is the rare one that doesn't care, usually he is the one shutting himself down.

[andremiller07]

Dwight is probably the most criticized superstar in the game. Im not saying you're wrong. But you have always had kind of a bias towards athletic big men.
Yeah I agree, look Dwight is excellent player (and yes I as bias but I still am not blinded that much by hate that I can't see he's a elite player) but my point is you can't take away points from Duncan (for the rankings) just cause he plays with Tony Parker and not take anything away from Dwight since he was unable to do a lot of things this past season on offense in particular.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Yeah I agree, look Dwight is excellent player (and yes I as bias but I still am not blinded that much by hate that I can't see he's a elite player) but my point is you can't take away points from Duncan (for the rankings) just cause he plays with Tony Parker and not take anything away from Dwight since he was unable to do a lot of things this past season on offense in particular.

Honestly, I think you both make good points. TP is a baller, but Duncan is still their most important player imo. And Dwight still looks like hot garbage trying to create his own shot. But when it comes to overall impact, the guy can still give you 18ppg, elite defense, and lead the league in rebounding.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Ranking should be done based on gaps since most of the players aren't that much ahead of each other.

1) Lebron

huge gap

2) Durant

little gap

3-7) Kobe/Wade/Paul/Westbrook/Melo/Deron/Rose/Parker/playoff Rondo are in the same tier if all healthy. Harden still unproven though.

8-10) Howard/Duncan/Noah in a similar tier as far as bigs go

Issue with the PGs/SGs is the fact almost every one of them can be locked up with a bigger/longer but just as athletic defender on them. Westbrook is the rare one that doesn't care, usually he is the one shutting himself down.

Noah is definitely underrated. Dwight is the only center I would take over him at the moment. Not a huge Marc Gasol fan.

[andremiller07]

Honestly, I think you both make good points. TP is a baller, but Duncan is still their most important player imo. And Dwight still looks like hot garbage trying to create his own shot. But when it comes to overall impact, the guy can still give you 18ppg, elite defense, and lead the league in rebounding.
Numbers aside on pure impact on a game and who is more likely to win you a game who would you take than? To me impact is more important than just numbers.

[kshutts1]

Lebron
Durant
Paul
Howard
Harden
Dirk
Melo
Wade
M. Gasol
Bosh

I left out any seriously injured player... mostly, Kobe, Rose, Westbrook, Love.. for the purposes of this thread.

[Graviton]

Noah is definitely underrated. Dwight is the only center I would take over him at the moment. Not a huge Marc Gasol fan.
Yea Gasol is overrated as ****. Noah is even a better passer/playmaker than him and Bulls actually run their offense through him out of the high post. But Gasol gets some flashy behind the back passes and he gets all this hype as the best passing big while Noah is busy getting triple doubles. Noah is also the better defender and rebounder. Gasol's DPOY was a joke, Duncan/Noah showed in the playoffs how overhyped Gasol is. Dude is too passive and soft, 7 foot huge skilled player out there playing like he is a bench warmer. Duncan and Noah got that fire, Gasoft doesnt just like his bro.

[The JKidd Kid]

I can't agree with the Kobe opinion because of the injury and I question his defence last year but each to their own opinion. I don't understand what your talking about what coaches are 'thinking or preparing. From most peoples perspective including people in the NBA like Chuck and etc the Lakers are going to 'stink bro'.

P.S Rondo has some serious skills and he plays very hard in the play offs. Wouldn't underestimate him he gets triple doubles easier then Lebron.

Rondo is a very good player, but I can't see putting him over the more versatile PGs like Williams, Parker and Rose.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Numbers aside on pure impact on a game and who is more likely to win you a game who would you take than? To me impact is more important than just numbers.

I would definitely take Duncan still. I might be kind of biased because I just saw TD dominate at times in the Finals. But if I need one game to win, im still taking him over Dwight. I like Dwight a lot, but I don't think you can win with him as your best player. And thats not even because of his ugly offense. The guy is just too immature. I mean, it wasn't that long ago he was the best player on a team that went to the Finals and ECF the next season. Its amazing to me he still hasn't really grown up.

[The JKidd Kid]

Yea Gasol is overrated as ****. Noah is even a better passer/playmaker than him and Bulls actually run their offense through him out of the high post. But Gasol gets some flashy behind the back passes and he gets all this hype as the best passing big while Noah is busy getting triple doubles. Noah is also the better defender and rebounder. Gasol's DPOY was a joke, Duncan/Noah showed in the playoffs how overhyped Gasol is. Dude is too passive and soft, 7 foot huge skilled player out there playing like he is a bench warmer. Duncan and Noah got that fire, Gasoft doesnt just like his bro.

Gasol isn't soft at all, this is literally the first time I heard this. I would personally take Gasol over Noah, because of his better post game and mid range shot. I also think he's better than Noah on defense against other bigs, however Noah is better on switches and P n R.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Lebron
Durant
Paul
Howard
Harden
Dirk
Melo
Wade
M. Gasol
Bosh

I left out any seriously injured player... mostly, Kobe, Rose, Westbrook, Love.. for the purposes of this thread.

I don't think Gasol or Bosh are top 10. I would honestly put Noah there if we aren't counting Westbrook, Kobe, or Rose.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Yea Gasol is overrated as ****. Noah is even a better passer/playmaker than him and Bulls actually run their offense through him out of the high post. But Gasol gets some flashy behind the back passes and he gets all this hype as the best passing big while Noah is busy getting triple doubles. Noah is also the better defender and rebounder. Gasol's DPOY was a joke, Duncan/Noah showed in the playoffs how overhyped Gasol is. Dude is too passive and soft, 7 foot huge skilled player out there playing like he is a bench warmer. Duncan and Noah got that fire, Gasoft doesnt just like his bro.

Im going to have to agree here. Noah on one foot dominated Brook Lopez and was hell for the Heat with his help defense. Gasol has nice offensive game and all that, but give me Noah's fire and leadership. Plus, I don't care what the numbers might say, Noah is a better defender.

[DaSeba5]

Im going to have to agree here. Noah on one foot dominated Brook Lopez and was hell for the Heat with his help defense. Gasol has nice offensive game and all that, but give me Noah's fire and leadership. Plus, I don't care what the numbers might say, Noah is a better defender.

I agree with you. I would only put a healthy Howard in front of Noah.

[Graviton]

Gasol isn't soft at all, this is literally the first time I heard this. I would personally take Gasol over Noah, because of his better post game and mid range shot. I also think he's better than Noah on defense against other bigs, however Noah is better on switches and P n R.
Gasol's better post game and jumpshot is irrelevant because he is not a dominant scorer. Too passive when he should be dominating. Noah can score the same points on same efficiency off hustle and energy. Noah is also the MUCH better rebounder and defender in the post or perimeter. Noah's Game 7 vs Nets>>>Gasol's career.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I agree with you. I would only put a healthy Howard in front of Noah.

:cheers:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Rondo is a very good player, but I can't see putting him over the more versatile PGs like Williams, Parker and Rose.

I think you overrated Deron. He is a nice PG. But he isn't a great defender and doesn't always play hard. The guy is kind of a whiny bitch. I don't think CP3 would have lost to Nate Robinson's Bulls.

[DaSeba5]

I think you overrated Deron. He is a nice PG. But he isn't a great defender and doesn't always play hard. The guy is kind of a whiny bitch. I don't think CP3 would have lost to Nate Robinson's Bulls.

I still can't believe they lost to Chicago's bench on their home floor in a game 7

[K Xerxes]

I think it's pretty hard to do 1-10 ranked, so I'll just use tiers.

God tier: James

Demi-God tier: Durant

Top 5 contenders: Howard*, Rose*, Paul, Westbrook*

Bottom half of top 10: Parker, Harden, Duncan, Wade/Bryant

*Assuming they get back to full health and their previous best.

Wade is pretty hard to rank because he's a top 5 contender when healthy, even at this stage, but he's barely top 20 at times because of his knee. So he's about 10, Kobe is uncertain because of his age.


That is one of the worst top 10s I've seen in a long time.

When Healthy
1. Lebron (Best player in the league)
2. Durant (30 PPG on 50, 40, 90)
3. Dwight (Dominant defensive presence)
4. Kobe (Amazing scorer plus elite D)

Is this a joke?

Look, all respect to Kobe for beasting at age 34, but he was atrocious defensively last season. As was the entire Lakers team, but he wasn't anywhere near 'elite D'

[upside24]

There still isn't a PF in the league I would take over Duncan when it matters. Even at 37 and limited minutes, he is the best.
I agree. Duncan, like LeBron and Kobe are truly special players that I feel lucky to have seen in realtime.

What Duncan did last year was incredible. His defense is elite and his post moves are beautiful in fundamentals and fluidity.

He rarely makes bad decisions and doesn't worry about his statline doing whatever is required to get a win.

He is the epitome of professionalism and handles everything with class.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I still can't believe they lost to Chicago's bench on their home floor in a game 7
Yea, i still can't get over that. Absolutely pathetic.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I agree. Duncan, like LeBron and Kobe are truly special players that I feel lucky to have seen in realtime.

What Duncan did last year was incredible. His defense is elite and his post moves are beautiful in fundamentals and fluidity.

He rarely makes bad decisions and doesn't worry about his statline doing whatever is required to get a win.

He is the epitome of professionalism and handles everything with class.
Great post. Watching the finals, Parker can be more noticeable with his shots in the lane and dribbling around defenders. But Duncan is the guy you're legit afraid of down the stretch. The guy anchored their defense all series and was a monster on offense at times. There was a point i would be shocked when he missed a shot.

[kshutts1]

I don't think Gasol or Bosh are top 10. I would honestly put Noah there if we aren't counting Westbrook, Kobe, or Rose.

Gasol is one of the top 4 defensive big men in the league but, in relation to Noah, he's also a legit scoring option. I love Noah, and I'd put him top 15... but not sure he's better than Marc Gasol.

As for Bosh, I can't help but believe that Bosh is still a legit first option, masquerading as a third option because he prefers to win as the third option.
If Bosh were the go-to player, I'd see him having significantly better stats than Griffin, LA, etc, while potentially leading his team to the playoffs.

Noah, again, is a great player, but I don't believe that he brings enough to the table offensively. Though he is closer to Bosh than he is to MGasol.

HM would go to Griffin, LA, Parker, Noah (in no order).

[Graviton]

Yea, i still can't get over that. Absolutely pathetic.
Noah on one leg went Hakeem mode and dominated on both ends. That defense was a treat to watch. Also that crackhead looking mofo Marco went ham and Jimmy boy shut the perimeter down. I saw the stats from ESPN before game saying the home team wins Game 7s over 80% of the time. But I knew Thibs da gawd wasnt gonna bend over. Heart and balls are important.

[Unbiased_one]

That is one of the worst top 10s I've seen in a long time.

When Healthy
1. Lebron (Best player in the league)
2. Durant (30 PPG on 50, 40, 90)
3. Dwight (Dominant defensive presence)
4. Kobe (Amazing scorer plus elite D)
5. Paul (20 and 10 with great D)
6. Duncan (Amazing post game and dominating D)
7. Westbrook (Great all around freak athlete)
8. Melo (Most versatile scorer in the league)
9. Williams (Most versatile player at PG)
10. Rose (Freak athlete and great finisher)

DWill over Rose? And if we're going for 'when healthy' wade is top 5. Kobe hasn't played elite D in years. He doesn't even play D nowadays.

[guy]

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Rose
4. CP3
5. Westbrook
6. Howard
7. Curry
8. Parker
9. Melo
10. Harden

[scm5]

1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Howard
4. CP3
5. Westbrook
6. Melo
7. Rose
8. Curry
9. Kobe
10. Duncan

Before you guys crucify me for putting Durant as #1, I think he's finally primed to have a breakout season in terms of statistical dominance. With the loss of Kmart, I think Durant realizes he's going to have to take on more of a scoring load and at least in the perception of the general public, Durant will be considered the best player. I still think Lebron is going to be overall better, but his stats will look worse because he has more help.

[GrapeApe]

1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Howard
4. CP3
5. Westbrook
6. Melo
7. Rose
8. Curry
9. Kobe
10. Duncan

Before you guys crucify me for putting Durant as #1, I think he's finally primed to have a breakout season in terms of statistical dominance. With the loss of Kmart, I think Durant realizes he's going to have to take on more of a scoring load and at least in the perception of the general public, Durant will be considered the best player. I still think Lebron is going to be overall better, but his stats will look worse because he has more help.

You're trying too hard to go against the grain. Durant could win the MVP and the vast majority will still consider LeBron the best player in the game (ala Shaq, Jordan).

[OldSkoolball#52]

1. LBJ
2. Durant:roll:
3. Howard
4. Carmelo
5. Westbrook
6. Rondo
7. Rose
8. TP
9. Wade
10. Paul George


:roll:

[aj1987]

Because they were elite players last season and they arnt going to just drop off, and you have to assume they will be elite until they actually show decline. Do you think that NBA coaches are thinking that Kobe is going to suck when he comes back? No, they're preparing for his same old dominant self.

I also didn't put Rondo, who is one of the most flawed players in the league, at #6.
Then why did you leave off Wade? Most people had him in the top 5 during stretches last year. If you're going to say that he declined, due to his playoff performace, he didn't. He was injured.

Also, Kobe doesn't play elite defense. He hardly played defense last year.
CP3 didn't average 20 and 10. His numbers were 16.9 and 9.7. If you're going to round them up, it should be 17 and 10.
Deron Willams in the top 10? Have you seen him play defense?

1. Lebron - Obvious reasons.
2. Durant - Same as Lebron.
3. Dwight Howard - An injured Howard put up 17/12/3 on 58%. He's healthy now.
4. Carmelo - Scoring championship with 7 RPG.
5. Westbrook/Wade - Wade takes the spot if he develops his game and gets better as promised.
6. CP3/Wade - Same reason as above.
7/8. Harden - He sucks on defense, but averaged pretty crazy numbers.
7/8. Duncan - Until proven otherwise, he's a top 10 player.
9. Tony Parker - One of the better PG's.
10. Paul George - Good offensive players and a great defender.

[christian1923]

James
Durant
Bryant
Rose
Parker
Paul
Melo
Howard
Westbrook
Duncan

[scm5]

You're trying too hard to go against the grain. Durant could win the MVP and the vast majority will still consider LeBron the best player in the game (ala Shaq, Jordan).

So you're telling me that if Durant averages 32/9/5 on 50/40/90 next season and Lebron averages 25/8/7, people won't see Durant as better?

Durant scored 28.1ppg on 17.7fga last season. With the loss of Kmart, I'm sure he's going to put up over 20fga and increase his scoring output.

Keep in mind, Durant will improve. He's still only 24 years old. He's going to be a monster and will eventually overtake Lebron. It might even happen next season.

[christian1923]

So you're telling me that if Durant averages 32/9/5 on 50/40/90 next season and Lebron averages 25/8/7, people won't see Durant as better?

Durant scored 28.1ppg on 17.7fga last season. With the loss of Kmart, I'm sure he's going to put up over 20fga and increase his scoring output.

Keep in mind, Durant will improve. He's still only 24 years old. He's going to be a monster and will eventually overtake Lebron. It might even happen next season.
No way lol lebron just won 2 straight titles

[NumberSix]

We still pretending Durant is the 2nd best player in the league?

[scm5]

We still pretending Durant is the 2nd best player in the league?

Aside from Lebron, who is better than Durant?

[christian1923]

We still pretending Durant is the 2nd best player in the league?
Who's better? All the other top players are coming off injuries.

[NumberSix]

So you're telling me that if Durant averages 32/9/5 on 50/40/90 next season and Lebron averages 25/8/7, people won't see Durant as better?

Durant scored 28.1ppg on 17.7fga last season. With the loss of Kmart, I'm sure he's going to put up over 20fga and increase his scoring output.

Keep in mind, Durant will improve. He's still only 24 years old. He's going to be a monster and will eventually overtake Lebron. It might even happen next season.
Yeah, and people used to think Penny and Grant Hill would takeover as the best players in the league. It doesn't always work out that way and new players come along to take the #1 spot.

[guy]

Yeah, and people used to think Penny and Grant Hill would takeover as the best players in the league. It doesn't always work out that way and new players come along to take the #1 spot.

Well, you're leaving out that they were injured. They may have been there if they didn't get injured. Its not like new players came along and overtook them while they were healthy. Don't get me wrong, I think the both of them are overrated as shit when people say outlandish shit like they were as good as Kobe or Lebron have been. But you can make the argument that they were already top 5 in the league at some point in their career before they got injured. Unless you think Durant is going to get injured or that there's someone else thats on their way to being better then him, which I don't see at all, then I don't understand what argument there is for him not to be #2.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I don't understand why it so assumed that Durant is going to get all that much better.

[scm5]

Well, you're leaving out that they were injured. They may have been there if they didn't get injured. Its not like new players came along and overtook them while they were healthy. Don't get me wrong, I think the both of them are overrated as shit when people say outlandish shit like they were as good as Kobe or Lebron have been. But you can make the argument that they were already top 5 in the league at some point in their career before they got injured. Unless you think Durant is going to get injured or that there's someone else thats on their way to being better then him, which I don't see at all, then I don't understand what argument there is for him not to be #2.

Exactly.

Not only that, but at least statistically, Durant is right there with Lebron.

Advanced statistics in defense also put Durant's defense at or above Lebron's level.

Durant's team is just getting worse and worse. What people don't realize is that Durant was only 23 years old when he went to the Finals against Lebron who was 27. After that, OKC has been making bad decisions or losing players to injury (WB).

[NumberSix]

Well, you're leaving out that they were injured. They may have been there if they didn't get injured. Its not like new players came along and overtook them while they were healthy. Don't get me wrong, I think the both of them are overrated as shit when people say outlandish shit like they were as good as Kobe or Lebron have been. But you can make the argument that they were already top 5 in the league at some point in their career before they got injured. Unless you think Durant is going to get injured or that there's someone else thats on their way to being better then him, which I don't see at all, then I don't understand what argument there is for him not to be #2.
Who's to say Durant won't be another Vince Carter or T-Mac? There's ALWAYS a "the next guy" or two who ends up doing nothing. My opinion is that Durants ceiling is being the Karl Malone of this era.

[scm5]

Who's to say Durant won't be another Vince Carter or T-Mac? There's ALWAYS a "the next guy" or two who ends up doing nothing. My opinion is that Durants ceiling is being the Karl Malone of this era.

It's not very likely that he will become another VC or Tmac, but you can go ahead and assume the worst for him.

At his current pace though, Durant is going to become something very special.

[NumberSix]

It's not very likely that he will become another VC or Tmac, but you can go ahead and assume the worst for him.

At his current pace though, Durant is going to become something very special.
Assuming the worst is no more unlikely than assuming the best. Actually, failing to live up to expectations is a lot more common than surpassing them.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Durant isn't a dominant enough player to start winning rings. Like NumberSix basically said, I think the Thunder are the Utah Jazz of this era. They will be deep in the playoffs every year and play in a few Finals. But I don't see them ever winning it all.

[scm5]

Assuming the worst is no more unlikely than assuming the best. Actually, failing to live up to expectations is a lot more common than surpassing them.

Durant has had a great track record since coming into the league. He's gotten better each year and has added more to his game.

He's known as a hard worker, and so I would say it's actually more likely based on his past that he will be better.

[GrapeApe]

LeBron has built up a lot of equity as the best player in the game. He's reached the point where one modest statistical season won't change that perception, even if Durant (or anyone) puts up monster numbers. Like I said, he may not win MVP next year but he'll still be ragarded as the best player in the league.

[guy]

Who's to say Durant won't be another Vince Carter or T-Mac? There's ALWAYS a "the next guy" or two who ends up doing nothing. My opinion is that Durants ceiling is being the Karl Malone of this era.

Well, he's already led his team to the Finals and two WCFs, hasn't been injury prone, and there hasn't been any questions about his effort or work ethic. At this pace, he's clearly going to surpass them. Of course, you're right, pace doesn't necessarily mean shit, but there's not much reason to assume he won't surpass them.

You'd have a point to ask if Durant should still be the second best player in the league, if you could provide someone who would inarguably deserve that over him.

[Legends66NBA7]

At this pace, he's clearly going to surpass them.

Yeah, if he hasn't already in most people's eyes.

[ChuckOakley]

I still can't believe they lost to Chicago's bench on their home floor in a game 7
Then you don't follow basketball or know the game well.

Chicago was the favorite going in and why I predicted they would win in 6 or 7.

-Chicago won the season series 3-1 (9-3 vs. Miami, NY and BK last season)
-Boozer dominated Evans every game he played against BK.
-Noah is the best defensive center in the East along with Hibbert.
-Thibs the best coach in the East with the best system, thus it doesn't matter who plays (kind of why Rose could miss half a season 2 years ago and they still have the best record)
-Chicago had years of playoff experience together, BK none
-Wallace and Evans were the worst forward tandem in the NBA
-PJC probably the worst coach in the NBA (3rd worst record of all time)

Chicago was the worst match-up other than Miami for the Nets.
Fortunately they've address most of those weaknesses.

It was pretty simple to see the outcome of that series ahead of time, though I was surprised the Nets came back from down 3-1 to tie it and Lopez played as well as he did in 1st playoffs.

BTW.. it wasn't their bench as 3/5 starters were playing, can't really count Rose being out since he was out all year.

[ChuckOakley]

1. LBJ
2. Durant
3. CP3
4. Howard
5. Rose
6. Melo
7. Harden
8. Duncan
9. Dirk
10. Wade

[upside24]

Great post. Watching the finals, Parker can be more noticeable with his shots in the lane and dribbling around defenders. But Duncan is the guy you're legit afraid of down the stretch. The guy anchored their defense all series and was a monster on offense at times. There was a point i would be shocked when he missed a shot.
Thanks. I completely agree about Parker being more noticeable.

Parker's style of play is more entertaining to some than Duncan's but Timmy does so many other things that are often unheralded in today's league like great help defense, effective screen setting and just knowing how to play the game.

I am going to miss him when he retires, so I enjoyed watching true greatness have a resurgence last year at his age.

[Kurosawa0]

When healthy:

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Derrick Rose
4. Chris Paul
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Russell Westbrook
8. Tony Parker
9. Carmelo Anthony
10. Dwyane Wade

[Young X]

Lebron
Durant
CP3
Kobe
Wade
Dwight
Westbrook
Harden
Rose
Duncan

[RoundMoundOfReb]

All Healthy:

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Dwight Howard
5. Derrick Rose
6. Tim Duncan
7. Carmelo Anthony
8. James Harden
9. Dwyane Wade
10. Kobe Bryant


Something like that

[guy]

Then you don't follow basketball or know the game well.

Chicago was the favorite going in and why I predicted they would win in 6 or 7.

-Chicago won the season series 3-1 (9-3 vs. Miami, NY and BK last season)
-Boozer dominated Evans every game he played against BK.
-Noah is the best defensive center in the East along with Hibbert.
-Thibs the best coach in the East with the best system, thus it doesn't matter who plays (kind of why Rose could miss half a season 2 years ago and they still have the best record)
-Chicago had years of playoff experience together, BK none
-Wallace and Evans were the worst forward tandem in the NBA
-PJC probably the worst coach in the NBA (3rd worst record of all time)

Chicago was the worst match-up other than Miami for the Nets.
Fortunately they've address most of those weaknesses.

It was pretty simple to see the outcome of that series ahead of time, though I was surprised the Nets came back from down 3-1 to tie it and Lopez played as well as he did in 1st playoffs.

BTW.. it wasn't their bench as 3/5 starters were playing, can't really count Rose being out since he was out all year.

Ummm season series doesn't mean much, especially if its 3-1, and half the Bulls were sick or injured, some not even playing, for much of the series. And I don't remember the Bulls being favored, which wouldn't even matter anyway, cause there's no way they would've been favored if we knew about the health issues they would have. There's no good excuse for them to lose that series.

[The JKidd Kid]

I think you overrated Deron. He is a nice PG. But he isn't a great defender and doesn't always play hard. The guy is kind of a whiny bitch. I don't think CP3 would have lost to Nate Robinson's Bulls.

They were Noah's Bulls, and I don't think Deron would lose to the spurs by 60 on his home floor.

[The JKidd Kid]

Then why did you leave off Wade? Most people had him in the top 5 during stretches last year. If you're going to say that he declined, due to his playoff performace, he didn't. He was injured.

Also, Kobe doesn't play elite defense. He hardly played defense last year.
CP3 didn't average 20 and 10. His numbers were 16.9 and 9.7. If you're going to round them up, it should be 17 and 10.
Deron Willams in the top 10? Have you seen him play defense?

1. Lebron - Obvious reasons.
2. Durant - Same as Lebron.
3. Dwight Howard - An injured Howard put up 17/12/3 on 58%. He's healthy now.
4. Carmelo - Scoring championship with 7 RPG.
5. Westbrook/Wade - Wade takes the spot if he develops his game and gets better as promised.
6. CP3/Wade - Same reason as above.
7/8. Harden - He sucks on defense, but averaged pretty crazy numbers.
7/8. Duncan - Until proven otherwise, he's a top 10 player.
9. Tony Parker - One of the better PG's.
10. Paul George - Good offensive players and a great defender.

The funniest part is that you talk about Derons defense which is actually very good according to stats but you put in Tony Parker who is an unathletic, small and weak PG.

I forgot about Wade, my bad.

[The JKidd Kid]

Ummm season series doesn't mean much, especially if its 3-1, and half the Bulls were sick or injured, some not even playing, for much of the series. And I don't remember the Bulls being favored, which wouldn't even matter anyway, cause there's no way they would've been favored if we knew about the health issues they would have. There's no good excuse for them to lose that series.

There is no excuse, it was absolutely disgusting. The only players that actually gave it their all were Deron and Blatche. Brook let an injured Noah molest him in the paint, Joes lack of offensive play allowed the Bulls to put Jimmy Butler on Deron, Reggie Evans let Boozer dominate him on both the boards and on offense, Wallace's inability to shoot allowed the Bulls to clog the paint, CJ Watson single handedly cost them a game, the coaching was awful etc. It was an absolutely disgusting performance outside of Blatche and Deron, there was no sense of urgency, everyone was just walking up the court like it was a regular season game against the Bobcats.

Hopefully this offseason, they solved al their problems.

[Rose'sACL]

Who's to say Durant won't be another Vince Carter or T-Mac? There's ALWAYS a "the next guy" or two who ends up doing nothing. My opinion is that Durants ceiling is being the Karl Malone of this era.
Shut up. Durant is probably going to end up as a top 10 player of all time by the time he retires. If Westbrook wasn't hurt, they would have taken spurs to at least 6 games in WCF, they wouldn't have won because harden was a big factor in them winning over spurs in 2012.
Duran't 2012 finals numbers were pretty great. if that OKC team met 2013 playoff heat team, i would put my money on OKC to take the series to at least 7 games. If wade played like he did in 2012 playoffs by putting up 22PPG, heat would have probably not lost a single game till they met the spurs in finals. 2012 Heat team was very strong and durant shouldn't feel that bad about losing to that team. He played really well and put up great numbers.

[Rose'sACL]

The funniest part is that you talk about Derons defense which is actually very good according to stats but you put in Tony Parker who is an unathletic, small and weak PG.

I forgot about Wade, my bad.
Parker might not be great defensively but he is really athletic. He probably runs the most on the court.

[The JKidd Kid]

Parker might not be great defensively but he is really athletic. He probably runs the most on the court.

Parker weighs like 170 pounds and has a 20 inch vert. Hes your typical defensive liability at the PG position, not to mention that Deron is also a better shooter and Passer than Parker and he doesn't have the gift of playing in Greg Popovics system.

[Rose'sACL]

Parker weighs like 170 pounds and has a 20 inch vert. Hes your typical defensive liability at the PG position, not to mention that Deron is also a better shooter and Passer than Parker and he doesn't have the gift of playing in Greg Popovics system.
but he is athletic which is what i am saying. also, parker is a decent shooter now. Also, i don't think Deron can play under Pop.

[The JKidd Kid]

but he is athletic which is what i am saying. also, parker is a decent shooter now. Also, i don't think Deron can play under Pop.

Anyone can play under Pop, he could make Average PGs like Jeff Teague and Devin Harris into stars. Heck, I could probably average a good 2 points per game in the NBA if I played for him.

[Horde of Temujin]

Dwight is not even a top 30 player in the league.

[retaxis]

Parker weighs like 170 pounds and has a 20 inch vert. Hes your typical defensive liability at the PG position, not to mention that Deron is also a better shooter and Passer than Parker and he doesn't have the gift of playing in Greg Popovics system.
Parker may be a 'defensive liability' but his opponents are always bigger defensive liabilities when playing him if you get what I mean.

[Shade8780]

Dwight is not even a top 30 player in the league.
In 2011 and 2012 when Dwight was healthy he was a top 3 player in the league. Now after an injury-ridden season, people start hating on him. He may be mentally soft but you can't deny his talent.

[The JKidd Kid]

Parker may be a 'defensive liability' but his opponents are always bigger defensive liabilities when playing him if you get what I mean.

Only because outside of Rondo, Paul, Williams, Westbrook, Conley and some specialists defense at the PG position is absolutely disgusting.

[retaxis]

Only because outside of Rondo, Paul, Williams, Westbrook, Conley and some specialists defense at the PG position is absolutely disgusting.
You give what you take. Parker is 1st option. His defense is better then Kobes 2guard defense but lets not go there (we all know how many Kobe lovers there are here)

[Unbiased_one]

Dwight is not even a top 30 player in the league.

Even last season Dwight was a top 20 player in the league. And he's was top 2/3 the 4 years before that.

[retaxis]

Even last season Dwight was a top 20 player in the league. And he's was top 2/3 the 4 years before that.
Dwight is an animal in this day and age. No one can block/distort shot like him in the paint. No one can rebound like him and sure as hell no one can draw fouls like him :oldlol:

[boozehound]

That is one of the worst top 10s I've seen in a long time.

When Healthy
1. Lebron (Best player in the league)
2. Durant (30 PPG on 50, 40, 90)
3. Dwight (Dominant defensive presence)
4. Kobe (Amazing scorer plus elite D)
5. Paul (20 and 10 with great D)
6. Duncan (Amazing post game and dominating D)
7. Westbrook (Great all around freak athlete)
8. Melo (Most versatile scorer in the league)
9. Williams (Most versatile player at PG)
10. Rose (Freak athlete and great finisher)
kobe and elite D never belonged in the same sentence despite the accolades. his D last year was terrible.

[The JKidd Kid]

You give what you take. Parker is 1st option. His defense is better then Kobes 2guard defense but lets not go there (we all know how many Kobe lovers there are here)

Im no Kobe fan, in fact theres probably no player in the league that I hate more but Kobe has been a lock down defender his entire career. Theres a reason hes made multiple all-defensive teams, which are voted on by coaches, unlike DPOY. Parker is an awful defender. Hes short, he cant jump, he weighs less than I do. Sure Kobe has gotten lazy on defense as he ages, but hes still miles ahead of Parker. I would almost consider taking Steve Nash over Parker on defense, thats how bad he is.

Parker is only a 1st option because the greatest coach of all time has designed his entire offense to get Parker open shots. No other player in the league has that sort of luxury, the only one that comes close is Dwight in Orlando, and even then it wasnt at the same extent as Parker. Pop has taken bona-fide scrubs in Splitter and Diaw and made them look like servicable NBA starters. I honestly think that Pop could make Jose Calderon look like prime Steve Nash. Thats why I question Parkers actual skill.

[retaxis]

If kb24 was playing elite D they would not have just crept into the PO. The defining moment of his pathetic D was when he let Jrue Holiday in for the easy lay up for game winner. I overlooked his pathetic D throughout the season when everyone was making 3 pointers over him and doing what they liked on the O side but that play.....

[The JKidd Kid]

kobe and elite D never belonged in the same sentence despite the accolades. his D last year was terrible.

I think that the 100s of NBA coaches that have voted him to All-Defensive teams throughout his career know more than someone on the internet that probably watched less than 10 lakers games last season.

[retaxis]

I think that the 100s of NBA coaches that have voted him to All-Defensive teams throughout his career know more than someone on the internet that probably watched less than 10 lakers games last season.
so kobe played elite D last year is that what you are saying?

[The JKidd Kid]

If kb24 was playing elite D they would not have just crept into the PO. The defining moment of his pathetic D was when he let Jrue Holiday in for the easy lay up for game winner. I overlooked his pathetic D throughout the season when everyone was making 3 pointers over him and doing what they liked on the O side but that play.....

If you think that one player on the PERIMETER playing elite D is going to dramatically change a teams play-off position, especially in the west, then you need to do a little research.

[The JKidd Kid]

so kobe played elite D last year is that what you are saying?

I didnt watch enough Lakers games last season to form a valid opinion, and I doubt you did also, so Im going to assume that he played at the same quality he did the seasons before, because his defense isnt going to magically drop off in one year.

[retaxis]

I didnt watch enough Lakers games last season to form a valid opinion, and I doubt you did also, so Im going to assume that he played at the same quality he did the seasons before, because his defense isnt going to magically drop off in one year.
watched enough buddy

[The JKidd Kid]

watched enough buddy

I doubt it. Coaches say he is an elite defender, so I choose to beleive them instead of your judgement from the 10 Lakers games you watched last season. No Offense.

[crisoner]

There still isn't a PF in the league I would take over Duncan when it matters. Even at 37 and limited minutes, he is the best.

THIS

Duncan always gets overlooked.

[retaxis]

I doubt it. Coaches say he is an elite defender, so I choose to beleive them instead of your judgement from the 10 Lakers games you watched last season. No Offense.
sure thing whatever you say this is a discussion board

[rmt]

I think that the 100s of NBA coaches that have voted him to All-Defensive teams throughout his career know more than someone on the internet that probably watched less than 10 lakers games last season.

Kobe has not been deserving of all-defensive team honors in years and definitely NOT last year when he was a sieve on defense. It's a travesty to all the true defensive specialists in the league - he's gotten them on pure reputation in recent years.

[RRR3]

Kobe leaves his man wide open all the time.

[kenny817]

we haven't had one of these in a while and everyone can create their list with whatever assumptions based on health e.g. westbrook/rose/kobe for this upcoming season

1. LBJ
2. Durant
3. Howard
4. Carmelo
5. Westbrook
6. Rondo
7. Rose
8. TP
9. Wade
10. Paul George

No CP3 means your list is trash