Higher all-time: Dirk vs. Kobe

[Electric Slide]

Who you got?

[Jameerthefear]

Kobe. Dirk is not in the top 10.

[Electric Slide]

Dirk is not in the top 10.
Neither is Kobe.

[Jameerthefear]

Neither is Kobe.
WHat's your top 10?

[OJ SIMPSON 2.0]

Neither is Kobe.
:facepalm

[0000000]

Amare over both.

[secund2nun]

Dirk is a far superior player. Anyone who is not a brainwashed fan knows it.

Prime Kobe= Cannot even get past the first round

Prime Dirk= Champion and also went deep into the playoffs multiple times

[RIP CITY]

Kobe and it's not even remotely close.

[Electric Slide]

WHat's your top 10?
Lebron
Kareem
MJ
Magic
Bird
Wilt
KG
Duncan
Hakeem
Shaq

not in order though.

[secund2nun]

Lebron
Kareem
MJ
Magic
Bird
Wilt
KG
Duncan
Hakeem
Shaq

not in order though.

Fine top 10 list. I like how you threw KG in there, who is definetely a top 10 player of all time yet is completely underrated because he wasted his prime years in Minny so he only has 1 title.

[Jameerthefear]

Lebron
Kareem
MJ
Magic
Bird
Wilt
KG
Duncan
Hakeem
Shaq

not in order though.
KG over Kobe? That's a bit much man.

[Jameerthefear]

Fine top 10 list. I like how you threw KG in there, who is definetely a top 10 player of all time yet is completely underrated because he wasted his prime years in Minny so he only has 1 title.
Accolades are important for top 10 territory in my opinion. KG doesn't even compare to the rest of those players accomplishments...

[secund2nun]

Accolades are important for top 10 territory in my opinion. KG doesn't even compare to the rest of those players accomplishments...

Skill is skill. KG was a top 10 player of all time. He was one of the most dominant players of all time. Just because he wasted most of his career in Minny with no talent around him does not mean he was not a top 10 player of all time. He was a beast.

[Magic 32]

not in order though.

i doubt it

[lakeshow1]

Who you got?

Good trolling is subtle trolling. It's an art. And you suck at it.

[LakersDaBEst]

Who you got?

Adam Morrison.

[goldcrow]

Replace Kobe with Dirk and Lakers go on a 3-peat with Shaq-Dirk frontcourt, possibly even a 5-peat with Shaq hanging around and not leaving.

Replace Dirk with Kobe in 2011 finals, first round exit.

Both have one seasOn mvp and finals mvp. We all know Gasol was the true finals mvp in one of those runs.

In short, Kobe's just lucky with the team he had. Dirk had to work multiple seasons with role players and scrubs.

[Xiao Yao You]

Dirk

[kobeef24]

Lebron
Kareem
MJ
Magic
Bird
Wilt
KG
Duncan
Hakeem
Shaq

not in order though.

Hahaha KG over Russell....

[jstern]

Dirk of course.

Jk. Kobe and it's not even close, (unless we're considering the teams that each of them throughout their career). But Kobe is not in the top 10.

[Cali Syndicate]

Op = second2nun.

[imdaman99]

:roll: OP logged into his second2nun account to reply to himself :roll:

[Cali Syndicate]

:roll: OP logged into his second2nun account to reply to himself :roll:

Once a RG, always a RG.

[branslowski]

Dirk is a far superior player. Anyone who is not a brainwashed fan knows it.

Prime Kobe= Cannot even get past the first round

Prime Dirk= Champion and also went deep into the playoffs multiple times

Trolls these days getting lame and predictable:facepalm

Any, everyone with an unbiased brain knows Kobe is better. And lol at ppl in this thread saying Kobe isn't top 10, are you idiots retarded inbred's?

[Lebron23]

Kobe is top 10

dirk is top 20-21

[VIntageNOvel]

trivia question

pauk disappear, tonymontana production significantly lower,
out of nowhere electric slide, thabisyo, second2nun, oldschool# on trolling spree

coincidence?

[PickernRoller]

trivia question

pauk disappear, tonymontana production significantly lower,
out of nowhere electric slide, thabisyo, second2nun, oldschool# on trolling spree

coincidence?

There is no such thing as coincidence. All the morons banned in the past probably opened new accounts in Apr 2013. Those who are addicted to trolling just open alts to agree with themselves too.

[chazzy]

Rocket greatness with his daily attention seeking thread

[HurricaneKid]

Dirk IS highly underrated. But he ain't Kobe.

[Electric Slide]

Hahaha KG over Russell....
I forgot about Russell.

I guess that means Kobe is actually not top 11

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I shudder to think what prime Dirk would have done w/ PEAK Shaq and Phil Jackson's tutelage. :eek:

[NumberSix]

I lean towards thinking Dirk is a better player, but I still for some reason find it ridiculous to even consider putting him above Kobe. What exactly is happening there?

[branslowski]

I lean towards thinking Dirk is a better player, but I still for some reason find it ridiculous to even consider putting him above Kobe. What exactly is happening there?

Yahoo Best Answer:

You are trying to troll with a straight face but the facts and common sense keeps you from doing so.

[Nashty]

Dirk easily.

[DaSeba5]

Kobe is top 10

dirk is top 20-21

This

[Electric Slide]

I lean towards thinking Dirk is a better player, but I still for some reason find it ridiculous to even consider putting him above Kobe. What exactly is happening there?
you value accomplishments and things that are completely dependent on luck and great teammates.

[KingMichael23]

Kobe. He's in the top 10. Dirk is not.

[TheBigVeto]

Dirk easy.
Dirk is in the top 30 GOAT basketball players.
Kobe is nowhere near the top 500 GOAT basketball players.

[Sakkreth]

Kobe, but he ain't top 10.

[kentatm]

lol at all you media brainwashed kids thinking Kobe is top 10 all time.

good lord ESPN has mind ****ed y'all.

and you know what? you can call me a homer but I'd rather have Dirk all day every day.

Stick him with Shaq and The Big Fundamental retires a Laker b/c Dirk values team so much he would have taken less to ensure the big fella stayed around.

He would have NEVER made it a him or me thing the way Kobe did.

shit, TMac would have gone for a three peat with prime f-ing Shaq by his side.

Was Kobe ever even legitimately the best player in the league in any given year? I think not.

Hell, Kobe on a two time defending Laker squad with two bad ass bigs in Bynum and Pau got swept the **** out of the playoffs.

All you stans need to wake the hell up. http://www.secrant.com/Images/Icons/Iconbirdtongue.gif

[The Choken One]

in after retards actually saying Dirk.

My god...this is an NBA forum, the sheer lack of basketball knowledge amazes me.

[Jacks3]

trivia question

pauk disappear, tonymontana production significantly lower,
out of nowhere electric slide, thabisyo, second2nun, oldschool# on trolling spree

coincidence?
:banghead:

[Nashty]

Dirk easy.
Dirk is in the top 30 GOAT basketball players.
Kobe is nowhere near the top 500 GOAT basketball players.

+1 :cheers:

If Kobe stayed with the Hornets he wouldn't be nowhere near top 500 GOAT. He just got lucky to play with great teammates that carried him to 5 rings.

[Balla_Status]

lol at all you media brainwashed kids thinking Kobe is top 10 all time.

good lord ESPN has mind ****ed y'all.

and you know what? you can call me a homer but I'd rather have Dirk all day every day.

Stick him with Shaq and The Big Fundamental retires a Laker b/c Dirk values team so much he would have taken less to ensure the big fella stayed around.

He would have NEVER made it a him or me thing the way Kobe did.

shit, TMac would have gone for a three peat with prime f-ing Shaq by his side.

Was Kobe ever even legitimately the best player in the league in any given year? I think not.

Hell, Kobe on a two time defending Laker squad with two bad ass bigs in Bynum and Pau got swept the **** out of the playoffs.

All you stans need to wake the hell up. http://www.secrant.com/Images/Icons/Iconbirdtongue.gif

:oldlol: :cheers:

This post had to have been made under a few beers.

[Mr Know It All]

Dirk was the better individual player in his prime and a better team player as well. NBA fans are obsessed with narratives and bullshit so naturally they will choose Kobe even though his success (championships) were a product of the great teams he played on. Dirk never played with a Shaq, hell he never even played with a player on Gasol or Bynum's (11-12 season) level.

NBA fans are stuck in a very old fashioned way of thinking, primitive really. Where you see arguments like "Hurr durr 5 rings > 2 rings lol" in the midst of a serious argument. Advanced statistics and modern understanding of the game have trumped these ridiculous perceptions. Rings are a team accomplishment.

It's the same thing with Lebron. He was a Chris Bosh rebound and an Allen three from being chirped on this site for a summer and many seasons to come. His legacy could have taken a huge hit. But why? He's proven himself as the best player in the NBA for 4+ seasons, his statistical dominance and team play (even with scrubs on Cleveland) prove this.

Throw this ESPN driven narrative crap in the dirt, because that is where it belongs. Listen less to Skip Bayless and Steven A. and read more Zach Lowe. You'll be a more intelligent fan for it, and maybe not lump yourself in with casual NBA fans who make these rash and incorrect judgments based on biased media coverage and TEAM accomplishments.

[tpols]

Dirk is underrated.. But not on Kobe's level. Kobe was a more dominant offensive player.. Better combo of scoring/playmaking/control and of course had much greater defensive impact when he was younger.

[tazb]

Individually, Dirk. When you bring team accomplishments into the equation, Kobe, but not by far.

[K]

I lean towards thinking Dirk is a better player, but I still for some reason find it ridiculous to even consider putting him above Kobe. What exactly is happening there?

You're brainwashed by the ring argument. That uncomfortable feeling you're having right now is cognitive dissonance. Let go of the ring argument. Let your mind go free.

[K]

lol at all you media brainwashed kids thinking Kobe is top 10 all time.

good lord ESPN has mind ****ed y'all.

and you know what? you can call me a homer but I'd rather have Dirk all day every day.

Stick him with Shaq and The Big Fundamental retires a Laker b/c Dirk values team so much he would have taken less to ensure the big fella stayed around.

He would have NEVER made it a him or me thing the way Kobe did.

shit, TMac would have gone for a three peat with prime f-ing Shaq by his side.

Was Kobe ever even legitimately the best player in the league in any given year? I think not.

Hell, Kobe on a two time defending Laker squad with two bad ass bigs in Bynum and Pau got swept the **** out of the playoffs.

All you stans need to wake the hell up. http://www.secrant.com/Images/Icons/Iconbirdtongue.gif


:applause: :applause: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[K]

Dirk was the better individual player in his prime and a better team player as well. NBA fans are obsessed with narratives and bullshit so naturally they will choose Kobe even though his success (championships) were a product of the great teams he played on. Dirk never played with a Shaq, hell he never even played with a player on Gasol or Bynum's (11-12 season) level.

NBA fans are stuck in a very old fashioned way of thinking, primitive really. Where you see arguments like "Hurr durr 5 rings > 2 rings lol" in the midst of a serious argument. Advanced statistics and modern understanding of the game have trumped these ridiculous perceptions. Rings are a team accomplishment.

It's the same thing with Lebron. He was a Chris Bosh rebound and an Allen three from being chirped on this site for a summer and many seasons to come. His legacy could have taken a huge hit. But why? He's proven himself as the best player in the NBA for 4+ seasons, his statistical dominance and team play (even with scrubs on Cleveland) prove this.

Throw this ESPN driven narrative crap in the dirt, because that is where it belongs. Listen less to Skip Bayless and Steven A. and read more Zach Lowe. You'll be a more intelligent fan for it, and maybe not lump yourself in with casual NBA fans who make these rash and incorrect judgments based on biased media coverage and TEAM accomplishments.

:applause: :applause: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[tpols]

Dirk was the better individual player in his prime and a better team player as well. NBA fans are obsessed with narratives and bullshit so naturally they will choose Kobe even though his success (championships) were a product of the great teams he played on. Dirk never played with a Shaq, hell he never even played with a player on Gasol or Bynum's (11-12 season) level.
.
Dirk never had kobe/wade/penny..

Dirk never had KAJ/worthy..

Dirk never had pippen or even Rodman..

Dirk never had jerry west/Elgin Baylor..

Dirk never had Big O/Magic Johnson..

Dirk never had a Wade/Bosh..


Dirk never got his fair shake at loaded teams although he always had talent on his squads. Never got a dominant number two and sure he could've won more and been remembered as better if he had had that.

But what's with the double standard? Almost everyone in the top 10 GOAT had absolutely amazing teammates and stacked teams.. But only kobe catches heat because he played with Pau Gasol.. Who is worse than half those other guys KAJ Prime Pippen prime wade prime Oscar and Jerry west.. I mean Jesus. Huge double standard here from a Lebron stan.. Your boy had a 25+/5+/5+ wade going bonkers in the finals and he still lost to Dirk + role players. :oldlol:





NBA fans are stuck in a very old fashioned way of thinking, primitive really. Where you see arguments like "Hurr durr 5 rings > 2 rings lol" in the midst of a serious argument. Advanced statistics and modern understanding of the game have trumped these ridiculous perceptions. Rings are a team accomplishment.
.
And what advanced stats are we talking? PER and win shares? Both made up formulas that add up stats in an arbitrary manner and spit out numbers that don't account for tons of variables like.. How defenses are forced to play a player, leadership, defense, off the ball movement, timing of buckets, dominant stretches(aka putting a team down with a quarter of insane play).

Bill Russell said it best.. Stats only account for 2 minutes of the entire game.. The other 46 are the ones that matter. And I'm not saying stats don't matter. Raw stats are the most objective measures because they measure the simplest reality and allow real multi faceted opinions to be developed.. Instead of saying a players worth comes down to 25.6, .178.



It's the same thing with Lebron. He was a Chris Bosh rebound and an Allen three from being chirped on this site for a summer and many seasons to come. His legacy could have taken a huge hit. But why? He's proven himself as the best player in the NBA for 4+ seasons, his statistical dominance and team play (even with scrubs on Cleveland) prove this.
.

And he single handedly almost choked that game away with his play in the last two three minutes. Just like he had done numerous occasions before. Bron was visibly flustered and got very lucky.

Thing is with Bron is he's extremely ball dominant.. He is always in control and most of the time he's great. Like when he went no headband and just wreaked havoc. But then two minutes later he literally went into his she'll.. And despite all that work almost threw it away all by himself. Whose to blame there but him?

[K]

Dirk never had kobe/wade/penny..

Dirk never had KAJ/worthy..

Dirk never had pippen or even Rodman..

Dirk never had jerry west/Elgin Baylor..

Dirk never had Big O/Magic Johnson..

Dirk never had a Wade/Bosh..


Dirk never got his fair shake at loaded teams although he always had talent on his squads. Never got a dominant number two and sure he could've won more and been remembered as better if he had had that.

But what's with the double standard? Almost everyone in the top 10 GOAT had absolutely amazing teammates and stacked teams.. But only kobe catches heat because he played with Pau Gasol.. Who is worse than half those other guys KAJ Prime Pippen prime wade prime Oscar and Jerry west.. I mean Jesus. Huge double standard here from a Lebron stan.. Your boy had a 25+/5+/5+ wade going bonkers in the finals and he still lost to Dirk + role players. :oldlol:



And what advanced stats are we talking? PER and win shares? Both made up formulas that add up stats in an arbitrary manner and spit out numbers that don't account for tons of variables like.. How defenses are forced to play a player, leadership, defense, off the ball movement, timing of buckets, dominant stretches(aka putting a team down with a quarter of insane play).

Bill Russell said it best.. Stats only account for 2 minutes of the entire game.. The other 46 are the ones that matter. And I'm not saying stats don't matter. Raw stats are the most objective measures because they measure the simplest reality and allow real multi faceted opinions to be developed.. Instead of saying a players worth comes down to 25.6, .178.



And he single handedly almost choked that game away with his play in the last two three minutes. Just like he had done numerous occasions before. Bron was visibly flustered and got very lucky.

Thing is with Bron is he's extremely ball dominant.. He is always in control and most of the time he's great. Like when he went no headband and just wreaked havoc. But then two minutes later he literally went into his she'll.. And despite all that work almost threw it away all by himself. Whose to blame there but him?

Point being that if Ray Allen had missed that 3 his career would have taken a huge hit. But Ray Allen's 3 was completely out of his control. That's why the ring argument is so damn stupid. Judge performance not rings.

[MavsSuperFan]

Dirk is my favorite player, but come on guys, why do you all hate kobe so much? You guys related to Kate Faber?

[tpols]

[QUOTE=K

[riseagainst]

lebron tards going full retard in this thread.

:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Kobe, without question, deserves to be ranked higher.

Now, if someone asked me if I had to draft one of them and they got to play on loaded teams for their careers? I'd definitely take Dirk. His style fits in better and actually flourishes in most cases without being ball dominant. That is the most under-rated thing about Dirk. He can be effective and impactful playing any style. While I agree with tpols that Kobe was a better two way player, I think some of that is lost when you start talking about chemistry and fit on certain teams.

That is what makes Dirk much better than he is on paper. A 7 footer that you can't even think about leaving open anywhere 27 feet and in. A player that can handle the ball well enough to drive from the perimeter, shoot mid range, shoot 3's, and finish at the rim. He's also one of the best ft shooters and easily one of the most clutch players ever. He also has a post game that demands a double and can manufacture shots at will.

Surround Dirk with loaded squads and I think said teams would by dynasties in the making.

If I had teams like Dirk actually had in Dallas. I think Kobe is actually a better fit. His scoring arsenal and dominance would lend itself better to taking over more often like he's capable of. Having said that...not sure Kobe ever wins a title with a team like the 11 Mavs playing the competition he did. But I could definitely see Kobe winning in 03 with a team with similar talent as the 03 Mavs did. Although I think Dirk would have won in 03 as well if he doesn't get hurt...or his odds would have been just as good as Kobe's.

So;

Great team? Dirk
Good team? Even...Kobe slight edge
Average team? Kobe
Poor team? Kobe

[SamuraiSWISH]

Are people serious right now?

67 win team, "MVP", looses in 1st round v.s. 8th seed (1st time in NBA history upset)

Kobe is the better offensive player, elite scoring and playmaking (even if it isn't his mentality) and obviously a superior defender.

Dirk is very valuable given he's basically a center who can play SF / PF and stretch a defense with his shooting ability. But in no way shape or form is he a better player than Kobe. Nor is his resume better.

Come on ...

[DMAVS41]

Are people serious right now?

67 win team, "MVP", looses in 1st round v.s. 8th seed (1st time in NBA history upset)

Kobe is the better offensive player, elite scoring and playmaking (even if it isn't his mentality) and obviously a superior defender.

Dirk is very valuable given he's basically a center who can play SF / PF and stretch a defense with his shooting ability. But in no way shape or form is he a better player than Kobe. Nor is his resume better.

Come on ...

You can have any opinion you like, but trying to boil Dirk's career down to a singular series is pointless.

That would be like me talking about the 06 Suns game 7 or the 04 finals...or Kobe missing the playoffs in 05. Losing with Shaq in 03...etc.

Dirk was awful in the 07 Warriors series and it should factor in. However, it was an anomaly in Dirk's playoff career and so many other factors played a role that it is silly to put a huge amount of emphasis on it.

Also, take a look at that 67 win team. LOL

[PickernRoller]

Dirk.................................just kidding Kobe.

Gino trying too hard to be a Dirk fan. I mean why even try.....just don't get the retards in this forum.

[Heavincent]

I love Dirk, but Kobe was better in just about every way. Athleticism, overall scoring, defense, playmaking. The only thing Dirk has over Kobe is height.

[riseagainst]

ISH logic: player X never had Shaq, Gasol, Bynum, etc, therefore player X is better than player Y.

:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

ISH logic: player X never had Shaq, Gasol, Bynum, etc, therefore player X is better than player Y.

:oldlol:

It's a little more than that.

Playoff stats;

Dirk 26/10/3 58.4% TS

Kobe 26/5/5 54.1% TS

Both players proved they could lead a team to the title. Both have had great regular season team success...etc.

[rhythmic]

I love Dirk, but Kobe was better in just about every way. Athleticism, overall scoring, defense, playmaking. The only thing Dirk has over Kobe is height.

Uhm, Dirk is a better shooter and more fundamentally sound.
Kobe is a better defender, playmaker & scorer. Better two-way player, just simply better.

I can't believe this is even a thread, but it's ISH so lets continue belittling Kobe every change we get.

[PickernRoller]

Uhm, Dirk is a better shooter and more fundamentally sound.
Kobe is a better defender, playmaker & scorer. Better two-way player, just simply better.

I can't believe this is even a thread, but it's ISH so lets continue belittling Kobe every change we get.

What do you mean by fundamentally sound? That might be a mistake...or maybe I am getting confused with that vague phrase...

I'll also disagree on Dirk being a better shooter. Not to say Dirk isn't as good. I have him as the second/third best jump shooter behind Kobe as a matter of fact in today's league (In terms of volume, arsenal and efficiency).

[rhythmic]

What do you mean by fundamentally sound? That might be a mistake...or maybe I am getting confused with that vague phrase...

I'll also disagree on Dirk being a better shooter. Not to say Dirk isn't as good. I have him as the second best jump shooter behind Kobe as a matter of fact in today's league.

Decision maker, unselfish, knows when to take over and when to defer to teammates etc.

[rhythmic]

What do you mean by fundamentally sound? That might be a mistake...or maybe I am getting confused with that vague phrase...

I'll also disagree on Dirk being a better shooter. Not to say Dirk isn't as good. I have him as the second/third best jump shooter behind Kobe as a matter of fact in today's league (In terms of volume, arsenal and efficiency).

Dirk is a better shooter, are you kidding me?
His all-around efficiency is one of the greatest in league history, especially for his position. Kobe is obviously a better scorer, maybe you're misunderstanding me?

I am pretty sure Dirk has a higher shooting percentage from 3 point-land, free throw, and mid-range.

[PickernRoller]

Decision maker, unselfish, knows when to take over and when to defer to teammates etc.

Ok some people usually use that phrase to include skill too. Not to get those messed up. I will partially agree - it's hard to measure. To attain Kobe's level of success over a 16 year career you have to be extremely "fundamentally sound".

[Legends66NBA7]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[PickernRoller]

Dirk is a better shooter, are you kidding me?
His all-around efficiency is one of the greatest in league history, especially for his position. Kobe is obviously a better scorer, maybe you're misunderstanding me?

I am pretty sure Dirk has a higher shooting percentage from 3 point-land, free throw, and mid-range.

Yes Dirk is the more efficient jump shooter. Has taken 566 less FGA(jumpshots) from my math but then again he hasn't had as many deep playoff runs as Kobe has had. All in all by 10%-15% gain on jumpshots....maybe wrong....lazy to do the math by adding the numbers. Stats on basketball reference(jumpshot criteria). I would still take Kobe for a shot but that's another story so my pick is subjective. Best jumpshooters today are Durant, Dirk and Kobe in my opinion. I still take Kobe for a shot.

[rhythmic]

Ok some people usually use that phrase to include skill too. Not to get those messed up. I will partially agree - it's hard to measure. To attain Kobe's level of success over a 16 year career you have to be extremely "fundamentally sound".

Yeah I understand what you're saying now, fundamentall sound is a pretty vague term now that I think about it. It also means being skilled by playing the game the right way.

In that sense, Kobe is maybe the most fundamental player ever besides Jordan. His decision making really hindered his all-time status, he could have been a top 3 player of all-time if he just play his career like he did in 2008.

[PickernRoller]

Yeah I understand what you're saying now, fundamentall sound is a pretty vague term now that I think about it. It also means being skilled by playing the game the right way.

In that sense, Kobe is maybe the most fundamental player ever besides Jordan. His decision making really hindered his all-time status, he could have been a top 3 player of all-time if he just play his career like he did in 2008.

There is no way those teams get to the playoffs with him playing in 06/07 like he did in 08. Those teams were extremely deficient on offense+ defense too. Stopping his man wasn't gonna cut it plain and simple. He could lock down on the best perimeter player and that wouldn't make a dent. He could distribute to the bums and they wouldn't make the shots. He lost the best 2-3 years of his prime on a crappy team. It's what it's. Kobe doesn't simply go from all around, playmaker, defender and scorer when with Shaq to emphasis on scoring just by his own choosing. If it wasn't for piling up wins against the crappy teams by dropping 30+, 40+, 50+, 60+ pts at any given night those Laker teams would have never made the playoffs. We are talking a third to almost half the offensive output by one player alone.

[Unbiased_one]

What do you mean by fundamentally sound? That might be a mistake...or maybe I am getting confused with that vague phrase...

I'll also disagree on Dirk being a better shooter. Not to say Dirk isn't as good. I have him as the second/third best jump shooter behind Kobe as a matter of fact in today's league (In terms of volume, arsenal and efficiency).

Even lebron shot more jumpers at a better percentage last year than Kobe.

[PickernRoller]

Even lebron shot more jumpers at a better percentage last year than Kobe.

Are we talking Lebron or are we discussing Dirk and Kobe all-time here?

Yes Lebron was more efficient last year* and he took less shots, 813 FGA for Lebron to 1217 FGA for Kobe (regular season alone)

Before this thread derails to Lebron vs. Kobe as a jumpshooter:

Please visit this thread where a clown tried to claim such thing and got debunked.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308712&page=6

I still wouldn't take Lebron to make a jumpshot over Kobe + he's the better shooter, whether more/less efficient or not.

[dyna]

Kobe

[DMAVS41]

Dirk is definitely the better shooter. Kobe is definitely the better tough shot maker.

[guy]

I'd go with Kobe, but I don't think Dirk is that far off. If they switched career paths and we took positional differences into account, Dirk is probably only a little less successful then Kobe was, and Kobe is about just as successful as Dirk was.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Dirk is a far superior player. Anyone who is not a brainwashed fan knows it.

Prime Kobe= Cannot even get past the first round

Prime Dirk= Champion and also went deep into the playoffs multiple times



This.

[eklip]

Yes Dirk is the more efficient jump shooter. Has taken 566 less FGA(jumpshots) from my math but then again he hasn't had as many deep playoff runs as Kobe has had. All in all by 10%-15% gain on jumpshots....maybe wrong....lazy to do the math by adding the numbers. Stats on basketball reference(jumpshot criteria). I would still take Kobe for a shot but that's another story so my pick is subjective. Best jumpshooters today are Durant, Dirk and Kobe in my opinion. I still take Kobe for a shot.

some interesting statistics:
the best seasons in terms of FG% on 2 point jump-shots of Dirk, Durant and Kobe (regular season + post season):
.495 Dirk 2010-11 (1112 fga - 73+21=94 games)
.486 Dirk 2006-07
.484 Dirk 2007-08
.478 Dirk 2008-09
.472 Dirk 2012-13
.466 Durant 2011-12 (845 fga - lockout season 66+20=86 games)
.461 Dirk 2009-10
.461 Dirk 2005-06
.456 Durant 2012-13 (921 fga - 81+11=92 games)
.455 Kobe 2009-10 (1209 fga - 73+23=96 games)
...

I think that there is no question that Dirk is the better jump shooter. Kobe has the best foot work, though. He can still get good looks out of very bad situations. Dirk's numbers are impressive, because he shoots so many one-legged fadeaways. I thought that Durant's numbers would be higher, but he is still young and can improve (Dirk was 32 in his best season, Kobe 31).

[Lakers2877]

Could you imagine if Kobe lost in the first rd as the #1 overall seed? Lol he would get crucified. Guys like Dirk and Dubcan though? Barely a mention. The fact is Kobe is judged differently than any other player. Anybody who says dirk > Kobe has a biased agenda. Nothing more

[Lakers2877]

This.
You think dirk is not only better than Kobe but he is " far superior " huh?

Do you think you sound like a knowledgable hoops fan?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Without question I would take Dirk.

[DMAVS41]

Could you imagine if Kobe lost in the first rd as the #1 overall seed? Lol he would get crucified. Guys like Dirk and Dubcan though? Barely a mention. The fact is Kobe is judged differently than any other player. Anybody who says dirk > Kobe has a biased agenda. Nothing more

Could you imagine if Dirk gave up in the 2nd half of a game 7? Could you imagine if Dirk had a showing in the finals as bad as Kobe in 04? Could you imagine if Dirk had a coach write a book detailing how difficult he was to coach?

LOL he'd be crucified.

[MastaKilla]

Could you imagine if Dirk gave up in the 2nd half of a game 7? Could you imagine if Dirk had a showing in the finals as bad as Kobe in 04? Could you imagine if Dirk had a coach write a book detailing how difficult he was to coach?

LOL he'd be crucified.

Could you imagine Dirk making the finals 7x the amount that Kobe has?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Could you imagine Dirk making the finals 7x the amount that Kobe has?

One guy played with Shaq and later Gasol. The other played with Dampier :oldlol:

[riseagainst]

Could you imagine if Dirk gave up in the 2nd half of a game 7? Could you imagine if Dirk had a showing in the finals as bad as Kobe in 04? Could you imagine if Dirk had a coach write a book detailing how difficult he was to coach?

LOL he'd be crucified.

2006 finals ring a bell?

[Lakers2877]

Could you imagine if Dirk gave up in the 2nd half of a game 7? Could you imagine if Dirk had a showing in the finals as bad as Kobe in 04? Could you imagine if Dirk had a coach write a book detailing how difficult he was to coach?

LOL he'd be crucified.
Yeah, because dirk and Kobe get the same amount of attention on message boards

Idiot

[MastaKilla]

2006 finals ring a bell?

Damn I forgot about 06.

[Lakers2877]

One guy played with Shaq and later Gasol. The other played with Dampier :oldlol:
All he played with is Dampier? I know you're a Lebron guy, but did you just start watching the nba recently?

[SilkkTheShocker]

All he played with is Dampier? I know you're a Lebron guy, but did you just start watching the nba recently?

Calvin Booth, Raef LaFrentz, Dampier, and Diop. That's quite a murder's row. First time he plays with a decent center and he wins a championship.

edit: I forgot the immortal Shawn Bradley

[guy]

Could you imagine if Kobe lost in the first rd as the #1 overall seed? Lol he would get crucified. Guys like Dirk and Dubcan though? Barely a mention. The fact is Kobe is judged differently than any other player. Anybody who says dirk > Kobe has a biased agenda. Nothing more

No one calls Dirk or Duncan the GOAT or even close to that. And I don't know what you're talking about, but Dirk gets plenty of sh*t for the Warriors series. Before he won a title, it basically defined his career to alot of people.

[Lakers2877]

DMAVS, are you really this naive? Phil Jackson writes a book about how hard it was to coach Kobe only to..................................come back a couple years later to coach Kobe. He was selling books. Lol at how gullible and naive you people are. HE CAME BACK TO COACH HIM. Lolololol

[Lakers2877]

Calvin Booth, Raef LaFrentz, Dampier, and Diop. That's quite a murder's row. First time he plays with a decent center and he wins a championship.

edit: I forgot the immortal Shawn Bradley
What about the rest of his teams? A bunch of scrubs huh? Poor dirk, never had any good teammates

[MastaKilla]

DMAVS, are you really this naive? Phil Jackson writes a book about how hard it was to coach Kobe only to..................................come back a couple years later to coach Kobe. He was selling books. Lol at how gullible and naive you people are. HE CAME BACK TO COACH HIM. Lolololol

No he came back to coach Smush and Kwame!

[DMAVS41]

2006 finals ring a bell?

I hope you aren't implying that Dirk was as bad as Kobe in 06...please tell me you aren't.

[DMAVS41]

DMAVS, are you really this naive? Phil Jackson writes a book about how hard it was to coach Kobe only to..................................come back a couple years later to coach Kobe. He was selling books. Lol at how gullible and naive you people are. HE CAME BACK TO COACH HIM. Lolololol

So what? He still wrote the book. Kobe still did the things I said he did. It doesn't matter how much attention he gets. That means nothing when comparing two basketball players.

You argued that Dirk isn't on his level because of 1 series. Well. I just flipped the argument. Dirk has never lost a game 7...and never given up on his team in such a game. Kobe has.

Using your logic. Therefore it is absurd to compare them...Dirk wins.

It's terrible logic.

[TonyMontana]

Dirk. Easy choice.

Heres what it comes down to...

If you have Dirk on your team, your squad is going to be a threat no matter what(Prime Dirk of course not the 35 year old one). His best teammate was Jason Terry for years and Dallas was always winning 50+ games and playoff rounds. That is LeBron-MoWilliams-esque right there.

When Kobe didn't have the most stacked frontcourt in the league they either missed the playoffs or got raped in the first round. This was in their prime. It wasn't until they got another hall of fame center in his prime that LA became relevant again. Kobe is not the only common factor, the dominant frontcourt and Phil Jackson is. With Dallas Dirk is THE ONLY common factor and they have always been elite.

Dirk is one of the absolute best offensive players ever. He is INCREDIBLY efficient. He can get to the rim, he can shoot from anywhere, all at an incredible level. Thankfully that soft level is gone now that he won a championship, but he was never soft. Dirk always got to the rim and played hard. Steps his rebounding up in the playoffs just like the other great players of this generation do(Shaq,Duncan,Dirk,LeBron). All elite rebounders when it comes to the playoffs.

[crisoner]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[riseagainst]

I hope you aren't implying that Dirk was as bad as Kobe in 06...please tell me you aren't.

23ppg 39% vs the Heat...
vs
23ppg 38% against the an all time great defensive team

i'm not implying, I'm saying that it's a fact.

and the correct sentence you should have used is: "I hope you aren't implying that Kobe was as bad as Dirk in 06...please tell me you aren't."

[DMAVS41]

23ppg 39% vs the Heat...
vs
23ppg 38% against the an all time great defensive team

i'm not implying, I'm saying that it's a fact.

and the correct sentence you should have used is: "I hope you aren't implying that Kobe was as bad as Dirk in 06...please tell me you aren't."

If you want to go off solely numbers...please include full stats and overall efficiency.

Thanks.

[riseagainst]

If you want to go off solely numbers...please include full stats and overall efficiency.

Thanks.

great, Dirk had 10+ rebounds a game, that suddenly puts his performance better than Kobe's.
lol...

[DMAVS41]

great, Dirk had 10+ rebounds a game, that suddenly puts his performance better than Kobe's.
lol...

Dirk averaged something like 23/11/3 and I'd bet on much better overall efficiency. So please include the TS percentages for both while you are at it.

By all means. You opened up this door...please include all the numbers.

And keep in mind...this is before we even account for Kobe's total lack of team play.

[TonyMontana]

Kobe Bryant in Elmination Games
22.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 3.7 APG, 1.2 SPG, .6 BPG, 3.0 TOPG, 41.4 FG%, 27.5 3P%, 77.9 FT%
Dirk in Elimination Games
28.4 PPG, 10.9 RPG, 2.8 APG, 1.0 SPG, 1.2 BPG, 1.8 TPG, 48.4 FG%, 41.9 3PT%, 90.7 FT%

Kobe Bryant in Game 7s
21.4 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 5.1 APG, .9 SPG, 1.6 BPG, 2.0 TOPG, 39.5 FG%, 32.4 3P%, 70.2 FT%
-W/out Game 5