Kobe 2007

[Jacks3]

Averaged 33/6/6/2 on 57% TS in the last 65 games of the season.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Discuss.

[shallehalle]

Demanded to be traded

[cos88]

4 years before he raped a white girl
...
6 years later he led his stacked team to a 7th seed.

[Nick Young]

4 years before he raped a white girl
...
6 years later he led his stacked team to a 7th seed.
More like Dwightmare dragged the greatest player of all time down to the 7th seed, and if Kobe didnt get hurt he would have dragged Dwightmare to the finals.

[branslowski]

4 years before he raped a white girl
...
6 years later he led his stacked team to a 7th seed.

April 2013

Irrelevant poster.

[Jacks3]

10 different 50+ pt games in that one season. :biggums:

52/5/3/2/1/80% TS (in three quarters)
53/10/8/2/1/59% TS
58/5/4/2/58% TS
65/7/3/3/1/73% TS
50/6/4/3/61% TS
60/5/4/2/68% TS
50/7/2/1 /69% TS
53/3/3/2/53% TS
50/9/3/2/1/63% TS
50/8/3/2/81% TS

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[ShaqAttack3234]

His end of the season scoring binge has to be one of the most impressive individual feats.

Phil gives him the green light to shoot while LA is on a 6 game losing streak and the result is 65 and win vs Portland, eventually four consecutive 50+ games including another 60 point game, all in wins, and then 43 to make the winning streak 5.

In fact, from the Portland game until the end of the season, Kobe averaged 40.3 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 4.4 apg on 47.3% shooting, 35.3% on 3s and 88.5% from the line for an eFG% of 50.9% and 57.9 TS% and only 2.8 turnovers per game over his final 17 games.

I can't think of a time period in recent NBA history where a player scoring 50 seemed as ordinary as Kobe during that final month or so. In fact, he scored at least 50 in seven of those final 17 games, and at least 40 in 9 of those games.

[WayOfWade]

Pretty good stuff. The only player I could see averaging those #'s is LeBron, but he wouldn't have nearly the amount of 50+ point games.

[MavsSuperFan]

people on ISH underrate kobe so much. People here argue wade is better than him.

[WayOfWade]

people on ISH underrate kobe so much. People here argue wade is better than him.
Um... he is. 2 Achilles > 1 Achilles. Doesn't mean Wade has a better career than Kobe, Kobe's got him beat by a mile. Wade's just been the better player since 09'. Kobe retook his superiority in 13', but his Achilles plops him down again.

[Electric Slide]

1st round exit.

I thought Kobe was all about the ships?

[Young X]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTNcya0H6Uk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NBSiveZZYk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNsHB4zoYlc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tVXqDVJh6g

:pimp:

[KOBE143]

One of the greatest if not the greatest season for perimeter player of all time..

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Was that the same year he cried and demanded a trade? You know, the one where he wanted to trade Bynum for Jason Kidd.

[CelticPride13]

What's the point of this thread?

[Kblaze8855]

TS% bugs me in times like this.

I just dont see the point. I suspect he was shooting at least ok...I remember he was hot. If its 46 overall, 37% from 3, and 89 from the line....

Is that less information than saying TS is whatever that equals?

I feel like I need to go look into it every time just to get an idea of what happened. An extra step work wise to get an idea of what he was doing.

[Kblaze8855]

In fact, from the Portland game until the end of the season, Kobe averaged 40.3 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 4.4 apg on 47.3% shooting, 35.3% on 3s and 88.5% from the line

There we go.

Never understood why we need to get rid of that. just...feels like a better idea of what happened. Ts being 3 or whatever things combined....doesnt tell you which one got the final number where it is. what was lacking. I have to google every time someone posts it.

[Unbiased_one]

Averaged 33/6/6/2 on 57% TS in the last 65 games of the season.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Discuss.

He wasn't even the best player in the league that season?

[Lakers2877]

His end of the season scoring binge has to be one of the most impressive individual feats.

Phil gives him the green light to shoot while LA is on a 6 game losing streak and the result is 65 and win vs Portland, eventually four consecutive 50+ games including another 60 point game, all in wins, and then 43 to make the winning streak 5.

In fact, from the Portland game until the end of the season, Kobe averaged 40.3 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 4.4 apg on 47.3% shooting, 35.3% on 3s and 88.5% from the line for an eFG% of 50.9% and 57.9 TS% and only 2.8 turnovers per game over his final 17 games.

I can't think of a time period in recent NBA history where a player scoring 50 seemed as ordinary as Kobe during that final month or so. In fact, he scored at least 50 in seven of those final 17 games, and at least 40 in 9 of those games.
Phil should have gotten Smush Parker and Luke Walton more shots

[Lakers2877]

TS% bugs me in times like this.

I just dont see the point. I suspect he was shooting at least ok...I remember he was hot. If its 46 overall, 37% from 3, and 89 from the line....

Is that less information than saying TS is whatever that equals?

I feel like I need to go look into it every time just to get an idea of what happened. An extra step work wise to get an idea of what he was doing.
Two players

One goes 9/20 from the field 45%fg and scores 18pts

One goes 8/20 from the field 40%fg and scores 20pts

Which player had the more efficient night?

[Kblaze8855]

Dont take this the wrong way but...I dont care.

Not even a little bit.

The whole efficiency argument annoys me. I see why its better to make shots than miss them. But a final __ of ___ doesnt do much for me.

I remember a game Derrick Rose literally took 3 half court or near it 3s beating the buzzer and at the end some guy posts that he shot like 8-19 and...

I dont know. I need to see the shots in question either way.

[secund2nun]

Prime Kobe failing to win a playoff series yet again for the 3rd straight season in which he did not have the best front court in bball.....the GOAT at being overrated and a myth :bowdown:

[Electric Slide]

TS% bugs me in times like this.

I just dont see the point. I suspect he was shooting at least ok...I remember he was hot. If its 46 overall, 37% from 3, and 89 from the line....

Is that less information than saying TS is whatever that equals?

I feel like I need to go look into it every time just to get an idea of what happened. An extra step work wise to get an idea of what he was doing.
Because 3s are worth more than 2s and FTs are another method of scoring.

Take Hack a Shaq for example. Teams fouled him primarily because they knew he was likely to miss 1 or two of them and that essentially hurt his team's offense by wasting an offensive possession of theirs.

TS% shows that.

FG% doesn't take FTs into account. FG% just takes misses or makes regardless if it was a two or three and regardless if FTs were taken.

[Kblaze8855]

Soooooooooooo...why not say what they shot overall, from 3, and from the line?

Is there additional information being considered that im not aware of?

[Electric Slide]

Soooooooooooo...why not say what they shot overall, from 3, and from the line?

Is there additional information being considered that im not aware of?
It's a combine statistic, a short-cut per se.

Lets take a look at an example.

copy and paste from somewhere else...


In 2007/2008

Smith had 46/40/72 in that season, Kapono had 49/48/86. Now the non-advanced stats numbers will give you the impression that Kapono was more efficient as a scorer, in fact he had the higher fg%, 3p% and ft%.

But a look at ts% reveals something here. JR Smith had 60.3 ts%, Kapono had 56.1 ts%. How is that possible? Well, rather easy, Smith used his ability to drive to the hoop (or cutting, slashing) and his range to either get a close shot, 3pt shot or a free throw. All of those are rather efficient ways to score. Kapono on the other end took a lot of long 2pt shots, had a lot of uncontested shots and didn't create a lot of of FTA. Thus overall his higher shooting percentages didn't translate in a more efficient scoring game.

[SamuraiSWISH]

TS% doesn't make sense period.

FGA and 3FGA have defenders.

Free Throws are entirely different context of the game. You're alone, on the line, no defenders. It makes little sense combining those percentages with regular field goal attempts.

I get that getting to the line is a form of efficient scoring, but it isn't always representative of drives to the basket, beating your man off the dribble (which is difficult) ... the context of the shot in order to score is entirely different.

It's a separate category all together.

[Electric Slide]

TS% doesn't make sense period.

FGA and 3FGA have defenders.

Free Throws are entirely different context of the game. You're alone, on the line, no defenders. It makes little sense combining those percentages with regular field goal attempts.

I get that getting to the line is a form of efficient scoring, but it isn't always representative of drives to the basket, beating your man off the dribble (which is difficult) ... the context of the shot in order to score is entirely different.

It's a separate category all together.
eFG% is more accurate then. FG% would be a good indication to see how well a player defended the other player though, as it just simply shows makes or misses.

But 2 points and 3 points are not worth the same and eFG% adjusts that. TS% accounts FT shooting which is another way to score. It's a skill to be able to get to the FT line and it's also a skill to make them.

[Kblaze8855]

Ok so....guy shoots better in every way.

But is less efficient because he doesnt take free throws?

Im...gonna just stick to watching basketball. This stat shit changes every 3 years it seems.

[Odinn]

It's a combine statistic, a short-cut per se.

Lets take a look at an example.

copy and paste from somewhere else...
TS% and PER are just BS.

I haven't seen a person that can explain that 0.44 multiplier properly. Everyone defends TS%, says it's being used for eliminate technicals and and-ones. But noone care to calculate season by season the actual numbers for them. Even so-called analysts.

[Electric Slide]

Ok so....guy shoots better in every way.

But is less efficient because he doesnt take free throws?

Im...gonna just stick to watching basketball. This stat shit changes every 3 years it seems.
Kapono is less efficient as a scorer but more efficient as a shooter.

Obviously if you want to determine who is a better 3 pt shooter, you would use 3p% and that's it, but if you to see who scores the most efficiently then TS% is the one you use.

[Electric Slide]

TS% and PER are just BS.

I haven't seen a person that can explain that 0.44 multiplier properly. Everyone defends TS%, says it's being used for eliminate technicals and and-ones. But noone care to calculate season by season the actual numbers for them. Even so-called analysts.

Best explanation here



The 0.44 multiplier is in place as a correction for all situation where FT's do not come in pairs. (Or else the FT multiplier would be 0.5 to signal 2 x 0.5= 1 possession) Studies have been done showing the 0.44 to be an appropriate number when looking at league wide, large sample sizes. It's not arbitrary. Or perfect.

[Kblaze8855]

So its kinda like in PER where dude just decides what he feels is right to value certian things?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kapono is less efficient as a scorer but more efficient as a shooter.

Obviously if you want to determine who is a better 3 pt shooter, you would use 3p% and that's it, but if you to see who scores the most efficiently then TS% is the one you use.

No offense, but you're not doing a very good job of explaining these 'metrics'. The more you type the less likely people will use them. :oldlol:

[Young X]

If you're just looking at overall scoring efficiency alone, TS% is the best stat to use, because it also includes the points players get from free throws and 3 pointers.

Just looking at percentages doesn't tell you how many times a player gets to the line, or how many 3's a player makes.

Player A goes 8/16 from the field, 1/2 from 3 and 5/9 from the line

Player B goes 7/16 from the field, 3/4 from 3 and 8/9 from the line

Both players used the same amount of possessions. Player A shot a higher FG% but who scored more points per possession?

[Electric Slide]

No offense, but you're not doing a very good job of explaining these 'metrics'. The more you type the less likely people will use them. :oldlol:
feel free to explain them better. I'm not really explaining either. I'm just quoting others explanations.


So its kinda like in PER where dude just decides what he feels is right to value certian things?
It's kind of like PER yes but we are just specifically talking about scoring in this case whereas PER is a giant stat that needs a special calculator to be calculated.

[Odinn]

So its kinda like in PER where dude just decides what he feels is right to value certian things?
Don't bother. The stans aren't gonna accept that those made-up stats are just BS.

[WayOfWade]

TS% and PER are just BS.
PER is not BS. If anything, it reflects greatness. Here are the top 10 all time leaders in PER: MJ, LeBron, Shaq, David Robinson, Wilt, CP3, D-Wade, Bob Petitt, Tim Duncan, & Neil Johnson. That's a pretty good top ten. If its such a BS stat, why are the best players so good at it?

[K Xerxes]

Best explanation here

So... the 0.44 comes from a LEAGUE WIDE study. Surely it would be more accurate to post a line of FG/3PT/FT instead of allowing a margin of error where someone averages above or less 0.44 (which will pretty much always happen?)


PER is not BS. If anything, it reflects greatness. Here are the top 10 all time leaders in PER: MJ, LeBron, Shaq, David Robinson, Wilt, CP3, D-Wade, Bob Petitt, Tim Duncan, & Neil Johnson. That's a pretty good top ten. If its such a BS stat, why are the best players so good at it?

Is this a joke?

PER is a joke.

[Young X]

^PER is useful if you want to know how productive/efficient a player is per posession/minute. David Robinson, CP3, Wade, Pettit were extremely productive players per minute/possession.

[WayOfWade]

Is this a joke?

PER is a joke.
The only player that couldn't be constituted as great is Neil Johnson. Everyone else is a great player. The only ones that can't be constituted as all-time greats are Neil, CP3, and Bob Petitt (Petitt still could, era guy)
So that's 9/10 for individual talent greatness, and 7/10 for career greatness. It's not perfect (nothing is) but it's a good stat. I'm not saying PER is the most important stat in history, it's far from it, but to say it's BS and a joke is downright ignorant and stupid.

[lefthook00]

This was after knee surgery and weight gain and no hops until the 2nd half of the season. If he was healthy the whole season, he would have gone even crazier than he did in 05-06.

[avonbarksdale]

i remember earlier this year durant had a bad shooting night, 8/20 or someting like that, but was 22/22 from the line


that is efficient, going to the line on 11 shots realistically he would have gotten a lot of those in boosting his fg%

[Odinn]

PER is not BS. If anything, it reflects greatness. Here are the top 10 all time leaders in PER: MJ, LeBron, Shaq, David Robinson, Wilt, CP3, D-Wade, Bob Petitt, Tim Duncan, & Neil Johnson. That's a pretty good top ten. If its such a BS stat, why are the best players so good at it?
Is your D-Wade316 account banned?:roll:

[Psileas]

PER is not BS. If anything, it reflects greatness. Here are the top 10 all time leaders in PER: MJ, LeBron, Shaq, David Robinson, Wilt, CP3, D-Wade, Bob Petitt, Tim Duncan, & Neil Johnson. That's a pretty good top ten. If its such a BS stat, why are the best players so good at it?

The thing is, we can create lots of arbitrary stats whose leaders are all-time greats. Even simple stats are good at it. Here are the all-time leaders at mpg:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/mp_per_g_career.html

Of course, you will not agree at all that Kareem should be 32nd, Jordan 15th and Bird 13th, below Jerry Lucas and Sprewell. But how is having Kareem 12th, Magic 13th, Bird 17th, West 23rd, Havlicek 155th (!) and Bill Russell 97th (!!) anywhere near a great evaluation?

[Jacks3]

His end of the season scoring binge has to be one of the most impressive individual feats.

Phil gives him the green light to shoot while LA is on a 6 game losing streak and the result is 65 and win vs Portland, eventually four consecutive 50+ games including another 60 point game, all in wins, and then 43 to make the winning streak 5.

In fact, from the Portland game until the end of the season, Kobe averaged 40.3 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 4.4 apg on 47.3% shooting, 35.3% on 3s and 88.5% from the line for an eFG% of 50.9% and 57.9 TS% and only 2.8 turnovers per game over his final 17 games.

I can't think of a time period in recent NBA history where a player scoring 50 seemed as ordinary as Kobe during that final month or so. In fact, he scored at least 50 in seven of those final 17 games, and at least 40 in 9 of those games.
:applause:

[Jacks3]

TS% and PER are just BS.

I haven't seen a person that can explain that 0.44 multiplier properly. Everyone defends TS%, says it's being used for eliminate technicals and and-ones. But noone care to calculate season by season the actual numbers for them. Even so-called analysts.
You realize calculating the 0.44 "properly" still has very miniscule results on the overall number, right? It's sorta irrelevant.

[Jacks3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTNcya0H6Uk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NBSiveZZYk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNsHB4zoYlc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tVXqDVJh6g

:pimp:
This is ridiculous. Makes it look so easy. :bowdown:

[Legends66NBA7]

The only player that couldn't be constituted as great is Neil Johnson. Everyone else is a great player.

It's Neil Johnston*... Neil Johnson is another player.

And for what he did during his time (fg% titles I'm assuming helps his PER) production and accolades combined was pretty great. I'm guessing most judge it since it was accomplished in the 50's.

[PickernRoller]

1st round exit.

I thought Kobe was all about the ships?

Yes 5 actually.

[riseagainst]

4 years before he raped a white girl
...
6 years later he led his stacked team to a 7th seed.

so he raped someone in 2011?

:wtf:

[chazzy]

Yeah, if you count FTA as .50 of a true shot instead of .44 it yields very similar results. It's just used to estimate FTAs that don't take up extra possessions on a bigger sample size. If you use offensive or defensive rating to rank team offenses or defenses, then there shouldn't be any issue with TS%

[Magic 32]

he wanted to trade Bynum for Jason Kidd.

Sound like a good idea in retrospect.

[Jacks3]

7 different 50+ pt games in a 17 game stretch. Oh lawd.

[Cherry Picker]

Possible the greatest stretch of stat-padding ever.