Hakeem or Kobe?

[Rose'sACL]

Who is higher on the all time list?

[Rose'sACL]

posting postseason stats as big guys like to take it easy in the regular season so that they don't hurt themselves.
Postseason stats:
Hakeem: 25.9 ppg, 3.3blk/game,11.2 RPG
Kobe: 25.6ppg, 5.1 RPG ,4.7APG

[Budadiiii]

Kobe Bryant. It's fairly obvious

[K]

Hakeem, easily.

[millwad]

Hakeem, he won both his rings as the main man and did it in a crazy dominant way. Kobe was great during but he wasn't even the best player on the roster during the first 3 and during the others he wasn't as dominant as Olajuwon.

[Rose'sACL]

how many rapes has olajuwon gotten away with?

checkmate hakeem stans

[Haks]

Quite tough but im more inclined on chosing Kobe because he just has had a much more ccomplished career tbh

[K Xerxes]

Hakeem had a bigger two way impact on the game than Kobe did. This is unquestionable.

Hakeem easily.

[Xsatyr]

Hakeem would of had so many championships if he was backed by the Lakers.

[Sakkreth]

Hakeem. But they should be somehwere close on the list, maybe Kobe is even right after Hakeem.

[Jameerthefear]

Kobe. But if you asked me who I'd draft first I'd pick Hakeem.

[DMAVS41]

close on the list, but Hakeem was decisively the better player in my opinion.

[Sarcastic]

Kobe is higher on the list.

Hakeem has gotten a big bump in retirement. During his time he was considered equal to Ewing and Robinson, and no one would say either is better than Kobe.

[K Xerxes]

Hakeem has gotten a big bump in retirement. During his time he was considered equal to Ewing and Robinson, and no one would say either is better than Kobe.

After 94 and 95, no one thought that. Thanks for proving you know nothing about the game back then.

[millwad]

Kobe is higher on the list.

Hakeem has gotten a big bump in retirement. During his time he was considered equal to Ewing and Robinson, and no one would say either is better than Kobe.

Bogus, he was considered equal to Ewing and Robinson PRIOR to winning his titles. No single person considered Robinson and Ewing to be equal to Olajuwon after his title runs.

Don't be stupid.

[kobeef24]

Kobe. But if you asked me who I'd draft first I'd pick Hakeem.

This.

[Horde of Temujin]

Hakeem.

He destroyed prime DRob, Ewing and Shaq

[OldSkoolball#52]

Kobe is higher on the list.

Hakeem has gotten a big bump in retirement. During his time he was considered equal to Ewing and Robinson, and no one would say either is better than Kobe.


:wtf:


Robinson is easily >>> Kobe.

Oh, wait, wait.

"rings ddeuuuhhh he won da ringssssszzzerers"

You don't know basketball.

Frankly, I find it strange you'd even spend your time on a message board discussing it. You clearly just watch the ESPN televitz, memorize their doctrine which revolves around aggrandizing explosive swing players in order to draw ratings, you come here and mindlessly repeat it... I guess I don't see what the point is. Theres maybe 5% of this board who thinks about the game for themselves and enjoys coming here to exchange ideas with others. The rest of you (and you specifically) are just pea-brained drones. I don't understand it. Why do you even bother??


Let me guess, you have Kobe >>>> Duncan too, right?


RINGS DERRRRR KOBE HAS 5 RINGSSS HURRRRRRRRR

But Fisher has 5 rings too, Kobe hasn't won anything without him! What a stupid way to judge and compare players!


NAH UH BECAUSE FIRST OPTION AS THE MAN MEANS YOU HAVE THE RINGS WHICH IS YOUR KILLER INSTINCT ASSASSIN FIRST BANANA HES THE BATMAN PAU IS ROBIN KOBE HAS 5 RINGS..... I KNOW TEH BASKERTBALLING!

[AintNoSunshine]

troll or serious?

Anyway, Hakeem by far

[Fresh Kid]

kobe, plus hakeem got lucky in 94.

[Xiao Yao You]

Keem

[Killbot]

Dream

[kennethgriffin]

even if you cut kobes career in half and didnt count the 3 championships/all nba teams in his years with shaq. and only counted from 2005-2013. hes still done more than hakeem


kobe 2005-2013
2 championships
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
8 first team all nba's
6 first team all defense's
9 time allstar starter


hakeem his whole life

2 championships
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
6 first team all nba's
5 first team all defense's
8 time allstar starter


ETHER

[Jameerthefear]

The fact that Kobe has that many first team all defenses tells a lot about that award...

[kennethgriffin]

The fact that Kobe has that many first team all defenses tells a lot about that award...



michael jordan was the most loved, hyped, popular player ever and he missed all 1st, 2nd, 3rd team all nbas and both 1st, 2nd team all defenses in 2001-02, 2002-03

so i guess its not based on popularity or hype

they dont make mistakes

[9erempiree]

even if you cut kobes career in half and didnt count the 3 championships/all nba teams in his years with shaq. and only counted from 2005-2013. hes still done more than hakeem


kobe 2005-2013
2 championships
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
8 first team all nba's
6 first team all defense's
9 time allstar starter


hakeem his whole life

2 championships
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
6 first team all nba's
5 first team all defense's
8 time allstar starter


ETHER






This.

I remember you mentioning this and nobody has a rebuttal for this.

[kennethgriffin]

kobe makes 1st team all nba = "its cause of popularity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


jamaal mashburn makes 3rd team all nba over MICHAEL JORDAN.........." ummm.... wut"

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Harison]

Hakeem, he won both his rings as the main man and did it in a crazy dominant way. Kobe was great during but he wasn't even the best player on the roster during the first 3 and during the others he wasn't as dominant as Olajuwon.

+1. They are pretty close on the list (Hakeem 7th and Kobe 10th), but Dream's two-way dominance (easily rivaling the best performances of Jordan or Shaq) and steep uphill battle to championships makes it a fairly obvious choice.

[jstern]

Kobe is higher on the list.

Hakeem has gotten a big bump in retirement. During his time he was considered equal to Ewing and Robinson, and no one would say either is better than Kobe.
I love Ewing, but there was no question Hakeem was the best center in the league. Perhaps you were too young.

Hakeem is a better player than Kobe.

[kennethgriffin]

+1. They are pretty close on the list (Hakeem 7th and Kobe 10th), but Dream's two-way dominance (easily rivaling the best performances of Jordan or Shaq) and steep uphill battle to championships makes it a fairly obvious choice.


-1

idiots always use the "absolute best year who you'd draft first vs absolute best year who you'd draft first formula" when its kobe vs whoever

but only when its about kobe. cause its a matter of biased opinion and not fact.

they like to use that formula cause they could use practically anyone whom they like and say theyre better than kobe

but if you used this crap then you have to use to for everyone else.

and if it really was just about 1 or 2 seasons then jordan isnt even a top 5 player all time

you could literally argue elgin baylor, hakeem olajuwon, wilt chamberlain, shaquille o'neal and oscar robertson as the top 5 players ever


I WIN AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!! :lol :lol :lol :lol

[SuperPippen]

-1

idiots always use the "absolute best year who you'd draft first vs absolute best year who you'd draft first formula" when its kobe vs whoever

but only when its about kobe. cause its a matter of biased opinion and not fact.

they like to use that formula cause they could use practically anyone whom they like and say theyre better than kobe

but if you used this crap then you have to use to for everyone else.

and if it really was just about 1 or 2 seasons then jordan isnt even a top 5 player all time

you could literally argue elgin baylor, hakeem olajuwon, wilt chamberlain, shaquille o'neal and oscar robertson as the top 5 players ever


I WIN AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!! :lol :lol :lol :lol

How exactly are you "winning?"

You're not convincing a single person who doesn't already buy into you disgusting Kobe worship.

[DuMa]

Hakeem the dream

[kobeef24]

+1. They are pretty close on the list (Hakeem 7th and Kobe 10th), but Dream's two-way dominance (easily rivaling the best performances of Jordan or Shaq) and steep uphill battle to championships makes it a fairly obvious choice.

Who the hell has Hakeem at 7? You have Hakeem over Duncan and Shaq?

[kobeef24]

How exactly are you "winning?"

You're not convincing a single person who doesn't already buy into you disgusting Kobe worship.

Shhhh, let him have his moment.

[KG215]

Kobe has the better career resume but Hakeem was the better and more impactful player.

[chazzy]

Surprised by the amount of "Hakeem easily" responses. Lot of people had Kobe at 9 in the past couple years. Seems like there's been a growing trend by younger fans to cross out Kobe's first 3 titles

[TyroneNBAFan]

Hakeem had a bigger two way impact on the game than Kobe did. This is unquestionable.

Hakeem easily.

Thank you.

/thread

[TheBigVeto]

Hakeem easy and it's not even close.

[TyroneNBAFan]

:wtf:


Robinson is easily >>> Kobe.

Oh, wait, wait.

"rings ddeuuuhhh he won da ringssssszzzerers"

You don't know basketball.

Frankly, I find it strange you'd even spend your time on a message board discussing it. You clearly just watch the ESPN televitz, memorize their doctrine which revolves around aggrandizing explosive swing players in order to draw ratings, you come here and mindlessly repeat it... I guess I don't see what the point is. Theres maybe 5% of this board who thinks about the game for themselves and enjoys coming here to exchange ideas with others. The rest of you (and you specifically) are just pea-brained drones. I don't understand it. Why do you even bother??


Let me guess, you have Kobe >>>> Duncan too, right?


RINGS DERRRRR KOBE HAS 5 RINGSSS HURRRRRRRRR

But Fisher has 5 rings too, Kobe hasn't won anything without him! What a stupid way to judge and compare players!


NAH UH BECAUSE FIRST OPTION AS THE MAN MEANS YOU HAVE THE RINGS WHICH IS YOUR KILLER INSTINCT ASSASSIN FIRST BANANA HES THE BATMAN PAU IS ROBIN KOBE HAS 5 RINGS..... I KNOW TEH BASKERTBALLING!

LOL, good post.

I've always believed peak for peak Robinson > Kobe, and that goes for most of the great bigs to be honest.

That includes Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, Russell, D-Rob, Wilt and Duncan. Scored as much on better efficiency, much greater defensive impact and were just better at their peaks than Kobe ever was at any point in his career.

Kobe just has better longevity.

[GrapeApe]

I agree with the people saying Kobe has a better resume but Hakeem was the better player.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe has the better career resume but Hakeem was the better and more impactful player.


I agree with the people saying Kobe has a better resume but Hakeem was the better player.


its funny how the only way to keep kobe out of the top 5 all time is to say dumb things like

"ya kobes better. but he wasn't cause i said so"

:lol

like i said... i could use that argument to say jordan isnt even top 5 all time

[bdreason]

I have Hakeem at #9, and Kobe at #10... so very close. LeBron will probably pass them both with another title.

[Electric Slide]

Hakeem wins the peak battle
Kobe wins the longevity battle

Your call.

[kennethgriffin]

Hakeem wins the peak battle
Kobe wins the longevity battle

Your call.


you could argue hakeems best season or seasons are better than any of jordans,magics, birds, russells

but like kobe. theyre all ahead of hakeem

its all a matter of opinion based on dominating a weak couple of years in a league that didnt even have its best player at the time

[VIntageNOvel]

kobe makes 1st team all nba = "its cause of popularity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


jamaal mashburn makes 3rd team all nba over MICHAEL JORDAN.........." ummm.... wut"

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

kobe makes 1st team all nba = "its cause of popularity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

lebron stan: 4 MVP bitch!!! 4 MVP > 5 ring, even if lebron didnt win any ring, 4 MVP > 2 FMVP and 3 rings gifted by shaq :facepalm

:roll:

kobe is absolute beast on defense 01-03:
06-07 was his peak but was wasted playin with crappy teammates where he must focus solely in offense, or they wont score any,
he score goddamn 81 point againt raptor in god efficiency yet trailing most of the game, thats how good his teammate was

so yeah, talk about luck,
hakeems peak while the best player in the league suddenly retired

[pnyozzzoo]

The revision history in this thread is crazy.

Kobe Stan try to bump up Kobe.
Kobe hater try to belittle him bump up Hakeem.( they prob dun even know much about him beside a few Youtube highlight)

Idiots brush off Kobe's first three rings and 2006-2008 play as if he was a normal second Banana and a scrub. Fact is Kobe is like one of the most if not the most impactful second option. 1B.

Morons try to down play Hakeem as if he was Ewing(less talented period) DRob(Less mentally tough, less competitive). He did not win more because of weak team support not because he was not great years before his chip runs.

Hakeem is a better player to build a team around. Big man, top notch both ways, relatively long healthy career with good peak, nothing more u can ask for, only a lil bitty short is the lack of crazy bigger than life dominance posed by Shaq and Wilt, but with his D and skill oriented game you can pick him with no regret. In fact no one ever bitched about Rockets pick Hakeem over Jordan.

And everyone agrees MJ > Kobe. So here is your choice Hakeem over Kobe.
But not because Kobe is bad, he is as good as he can be. He maxed out his talent all he has. He is just physically less talented than the likes of Hakeem, MJ. Those guys almost all have max skill like 98, 99, 100 like in video game evaluation. the difference is minimum. Hakeem and MJ born with better body.

[ShaqAttack3234]

The way I see it, Hakeem was just flat out better. Dream was obviously one of the best shot blockers of all-time and a legitimate defensive anchor. His mobility allowed him to guard screen/rolls and still recover and alter shots around the rim. When he had to guard a smaller player on a switch, he could do a respectable job for a center and could really come out of nowhere near to change shots.

Dream also improved on many of his flaws defensively as his career Early on, he was known for being too aggressive and trying to block everything. You could get him out of his shoes on a simple fake, and as a result, he'd commit stupid fouls trying to block everything, or trying to strip centers or overplay on entry passes. His overall aggressiveness and physical ability defensively made him a big impact player even early on despite the flaws. But once he became smarter and more restrained he was a more reliable anchor throughout game and the added discipline also made him a better individual post defender, though like most great centers that was never where

Offensively, Dream could be dominant even as a young player. He was obviously raw, but a great athlete whose aggressive extended to the offensive end and if you watch early Rocket games you'll see plenty of dunks and Dream crashing the offensive glass. He did have his favorite post moves as well, primarily the baseline turnaround from early on his career, of course that would get significantly better as well as the moves to set it up(primarily the dream shake) and his counters for that.

By the late 80s/early 90s, Dream's skills already seemed close to the championship years, but maybe the last thing for him was becoming a player who was really effective in having the offense run through him. This came when Rudy T had the Rockets entire offense revolve around him with the 4 out/1 in strategy with the offense almost always going to Dream in the post and Dream either scoring, or getting the shooters open shots.

That's the only real knock I can see on prime Dream that it took a bit to find an offensive system where his talent was maximized and it led to team success. But considering what Dream did getting his titles which was as easily the first option carrying the offense both as a scorer and playmaker in the post and while anchoring the defense, not many can compare.

Having seen both of them play, I just can't see Kobe as better. And for those that think Hakeem was just great during the back to back titles, check out '93 when Hakeem was every bit as good as the title years and some including Hubie Brown were putting him up there with MJ as the best in the game, or even the early years when Dream eliminated Kareem/Magic's Lakers in just his 2nd year, or the following year when he put up 49/25/6 in an elimination game, or '88 vs the Mavs when he lost, but averaged 38/17 in the series. Dream consistently came to play as much as any all-time great in the playoffs.

[millwad]

-1

idiots always use the "absolute best year who you'd draft first vs absolute best year who you'd draft first formula" when its kobe vs whoever

but only when its about kobe. cause its a matter of biased opinion and not fact.

they like to use that formula cause they could use practically anyone whom they like and say theyre better than kobe

but if you used this crap then you have to use to for everyone else.

and if it really was just about 1 or 2 seasons then jordan isnt even a top 5 player all time

you could literally argue elgin baylor, hakeem olajuwon, wilt chamberlain, shaquille o'neal and oscar robertson as the top 5 players ever


I WIN AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!! :lol :lol :lol :lol

It's not just about 1 or 2 seasons.

People who never saw Hakeem only think he was good for 1 or 2 seasons, in reality he was a beast for plenty of years.

As a 2nd year pro he killed Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in the playoffs while dominating the Lakers in the WCF and he also led his team to the finals against competition Kobe only could dream of that same year.

Kobe has been very dominant during his career but you also have to look at his competition, while Olajuwon outplayed 4 out of the the top 10 greatest centers in the playoffs, Kobe didn't do anything close to that.

And Olajuwon is just too versatile for Kobe, Olajuwon has the highest point per game average in the playoffs for any center in the NBA history while being one of the greatest defensive players of all-time at the same time.

[plowking]

Its funny the way Hakeem's career turned out. I remember before "the series" between Robinson and Hakeem, there was a great debate between who the better of the two centers was, and it was honestly split down the middle, maybe even favoring Robinson. He started taking away 1st teams from Olajuwon just before the series that defined both their careers.
You look at their regular season battles and it favors Robinson. 30 wins to 12. Just so happens that in one playoff series, Hakeem gets the better of Robinson, and it defines both of their careers. The first thing that pops into your head when you think David Robinson is that series with Hakeem where he got schooled.
Makes you wonder how Hakeem would have been perceived if things didn't fall his way that series.

Anyway... just my little rant. I think Hakeem gets overrated these days, when back in the day there was actually very little splitting the top centers. Now when we rank them, Hakeem is held in a much higher esteem than the likes of Robinson, who put together a very nice career of his own.

[jzek]

Kobe

And the ONLY reason was that he was GIFTED 3 rings by Shaq. Take away Shaq's 3 ring gift to Kobe and Hakeem and LeBron will be both higher than him.

[havoc33]

Its funny the way Hakeem's career turned out. I remember before "the series" between Robinson and Hakeem, there was a great debate between who the better of the two centers was, and it was honestly split down the middle, maybe even favoring Robinson. He started taking away 1st teams from Olajuwon just before the series that defined both their careers.
You look at their regular season battles and it favors Robinson. 30 wins to 12. Just so happens that in one playoff series, Hakeem gets the better of Robinson, and it defines both of their careers. The first thing that pops into your head when you think David Robinson is that series with Hakeem where he got schooled.
Makes you wonder how Hakeem would have been perceived if things didn't fall his way that series.

Anyway... just my little rant. I think Hakeem gets overrated these days, when back in the day there was actually very little splitting the top centers. Now when we rank them, Hakeem is held in a much higher esteem than the likes of Robinson, who put together a very nice career of his own.
I totally agree with your thoughts on Hakeem. I always loved his game, but his status really has been elevated since his playing days. Not many people talked about him as top 10 GOAT back then, this is talk that have heated up after his retirement. People also seem to think that Hakeem totally punked Shaq back in 95 which was clearly not the case. Shaq, even at a young age, more than held his own.

As for choosing between Hakeem and Kobe, I'd take Kobe in a heartbeat. Not many other players have had such an overall impact on the game for so long as he. Gotta love both players game though, they're just so skilled. Complete players, both of them.

[0000000]

We're using only Kobe's post Shaq career in this comparison?

Ok, got it.

Still Kobe. Best scorer I've ever seen. 2 rings. 81 point game. 40 pt games, 50 pt games, even 60 point games, video game stuff. When Kobe scored like 46, everyone was like...meh, nothing special. He made it that ordinary.
They dominated the game in a different way but IMO, Kobe's a level above. Same number of rings, MVP's, whatever, this isn't really that close to me honestly.
I think Hakeem is great but big men do tend to get overrated here despite some of the advantages they give you by having them.

[PickernRoller]

Kobe. Not taking anything away from Hakeem who is a Top 10 player of his own.

Obsession with stats as a sole metric for judging talent is surely a disease in this forum. Might wanna watch that hypocrisy o-meter or Jordan might not be the GOAT after all with the criteria put out there.

The fools here are amazing. Trolling is so weak.

[SilkkTheShocker]

One loses 8 times in the first round. The other needs the best frontcourt in the league just to advance past the 1st round. Give me Hakeem since he won with a pretty weak 94 Finals team.

[K Xerxes]

even if you cut kobes career in half and didnt count the 3 championships/all nba teams in his years with shaq. and only counted from 2005-2013. hes still done more than hakeem


kobe 2005-2013
2 championships
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
8 first team all nba's
6 first team all defense's
9 time allstar starter


hakeem his whole life

2 championships
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
6 first team all nba's
5 first team all defense's
8 time allstar starter


ETHER



As a general point, it's so ridiculous to compare centers and guards/forwards in terms of all NBA teams and all defense teams. There is only ONE spot up for grabs for a center, while there are two for a guard. Hakeem had 6 first teams and 3 second teams in his career. If there were two spots available for centers, he would have 9 all first teams, only two behind Kobe's 11, which is used as a basis for his outstanding longevity. Not that much really.

In addition, Hakeem had 5 defensive first teams and 4 second teams. That would be 9 in total - the SAME as Kobe in his entire career, even taking into account the gifted ones he received when he was still a shadow of his former days on defense.

Hakeem had 2 DPOYs in his career, Kobe has none. Only shows that Hakeem had more of a defensive impact overall than Kobe ever dreamed of having.

Kobe's career longevity is so celebrated in this debate, but I'm wondering how much it actually holds water. Hakeem was dominant from his rooke season, putting up 21-11. Kobe was a bench player in his rookie year, and only began to exert a strong influence on the game from 99-00.

Hakeem was dominant from 84/85 to at least 96/97. That's 13 seasons.

For all intents and purposes, Kobe was dominant from 99/00 to 12/13. That's 14 seasons.

Granted, Kobe's career is not over by any stretch of the imagination, but Hakeem isn't that far behind. The fact that his peak performance blows Kobe's out of the water means that the Kobe > Hakeem position is frankly untenable.


Its funny the way Hakeem's career turned out. I remember before "the series" between Robinson and Hakeem, there was a great debate between who the better of the two centers was, and it was honestly split down the middle, maybe even favoring Robinson. He started taking away 1st teams from Olajuwon just before the series that defined both their careers.
You look at their regular season battles and it favors Robinson. 30 wins to 12. Just so happens that in one playoff series, Hakeem gets the better of Robinson, and it defines both of their careers. The first thing that pops into your head when you think David Robinson is that series with Hakeem where he got schooled.
Makes you wonder how Hakeem would have been perceived if things didn't fall his way that series.

This is a stupid point because Hakeem outplayed Robinson so much in that series that it's not just a fluke.

In a six game series, he put up 35-13-5-4 on .506/.806. Robinson put up 24-11-3-2 on .449/.775.

In all honesty, Hakeem dominated another HOF and top 10 center like I've seen no one else dominate a player of that caliber. The regular season games don't mean that much in light of that because it's obvious that Hakeem raised his game in the playoffs.

And even in the regular season, Hakeem still outscored Robinson even when Hakeem was an old man in 1999-2001.

To further emphasise it wasn't a fluke, he dominated HOF center Patrick Ewing in the 1994 finals, and - although it wasn't as dominant - he still outplayed Shaq in the 1995 finals.

[0000000]

You know Kobe fans are mocking this comparison when they only use Kobe's career after Shaq in this comparison and Kobe still comes on top lol.

Kobe until 04 is a top 20 player of all time.
Kobe from 04 to now is a top 10 player of all time.
Hakeem altogether is also top 10 or close to it IMO. He's easily overtaken by LeBron at this point while I think Kobe, LeBron and Bird are neck to neck at this point. Kobe and Lebron are likely more ccomplished but Bird is well, a legend. Players tend to get rated much higher when they retire. Well, it's all BS anyway.

[K Xerxes]

You know Kobe fans are mocking this comparison when they only use Kobe's career after Shaq in this comparison and Kobe still comes on top lol.

You know Hakeem fans are mocking this comparison when they only use Hakeem's 94-95 season in this comparison and Hakeem still comes on top lol.

Wow, look at how easy it is for me to string a few words together. It means I win right?

Just because people make outlandish claims doesn't mean that they are right, or even valid, at all.

[0000000]

You know Hakeem fans are mocking this comparison when they only use Hakeem's 94-95 season in this comparison and Hakeem still comes on top lol.

Wow, look at how easy it is for me to string a few words together. It means I win right?

Just because people make outlandish claims doesn't mean that they are right, or even valid, at all.

Well, you just really said nothing at all. It's like me saying, people say Jesus *********es to porno. Yeah, people make outlandish claims, doesn't mean it's true. Whwt exactly did I contribute to the argument?

You say it's outlandishto compare kobe since 2004 to Hakeem's overall body of work? I that the outlandish thing people say?
There really is no argument for Hakeem except, big men are better.
It's a reasonable school of basketball thought. I disagree with it but I understand why some people feel that way.

The problem is, ISH is agenda driven against Kobe. In people'e eyes here, his 3 rings have less value than being on on all D team, unless if Kobe's on it of course.
I don't generally have a problem with big men lovers. But I think they're very wrong. Kinda like when people also say Shaq had a better peak than MJ. Not even close IMO.

[tpols]

Ill just say this.. If Kobes career was like Hakeems.. and he was losing in the first round most years, and in the second round in almost all the others, and only going to the Finals and winning AFTER the other best player retired for two years before returning to mediocrity when he came back.. he would get laughed at and have astericks placed all over those championships.



If Kobe and Lebrons careers were on the same track and Lebron won the titles from 06 to 08, and then retired, and Kobe won in 09 and 10 like he did... :oldlol: . To ISH those titles would not even count and would get knocked off for flukes since they only occurred in the small time frame where the guy that was better than him left the game .

[havoc33]

Ill just say this.. If Kobes career was like Hakeems.. and he was losing in the first round most years, and in the second round in almost all the others, and only going to the Finals and winning AFTER the other best player retired for two years before returning to mediocrity when he came back.. he would get laughed at and have astericks placed all over those championships.



If Kobe and Lebrons careers were on the same track and Lebron won the titles from 06 to 08, and then retired, and Kobe won in 09 and 10 like he did... :oldlol: . To ISH those titles would not even count and would get knocked off for flukes since they only occurred in the small time frame where the guy that was better than him left the game .Well that was pretty much the end of the thread right there.

[Kblaze8855]

This is a decision only made tough by looking at a list of accolades. Look at a basketball game I dont even see room for discussion. Its Hakeem. Not by like....3 miles. By by enough that there is virtually no realistic situation id choose Kobe.

Knowing how each would turn out Hakeem would be drafted over Kobe by every franchise in the league Lakers included.

Id take Hakeem over anyone in the league right now....at their peak. Lebron, Kobe, Durant, KG, Dirk, Duncan....whoever.

Though Duncan would be a thinker for a number of reasons.

[DMAVS41]

This is a decision only made tough by looking at a list of accolades. Look at a basketball game I dont even see room for discussion. Its Hakeem. Not by like....3 miles. By by enough that there is virtually no realistic situation id choose Kobe.

Knowing how each would turn out Hakeem would be drafted over Kobe by every franchise in the league Lakers included.

Id take Hakeem over anyone in the league right now....at their peak. Lebron, Kobe, Durant, KG, Dirk, Duncan....whoever.

Though Duncan would be a thinker for a number of reasons.

Agreed. Although I really think you sell peak Lebron short in this scenario.

[SamuraiSWISH]

As a player? Hakeem.

As an entertainer / legacy / resume? Kobe.

[Solid Snake]

Kobe is higher on the list.

Hakeem has gotten a big bump in retirement. During his time he was considered equal to Ewing and Robinson, and no one would say either is better than Kobe.



HHAAHHAHHAHAHAHAH what a dumb piece of shit!:roll:

[branslowski]

even if you cut kobes career in half and didnt count the 3 championships/all nba teams in his years with shaq. and only counted from 2005-2013. hes still done more than hakeem


kobe 2005-2013
2 championships
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
8 first team all nba's
6 first team all defense's
9 time allstar starter


hakeem his whole life

2 championships
2 finals mvps
1 season mvp
6 first team all nba's
5 first team all defense's
8 time allstar starter


ETHER






This.

I understand the peer pressure of back packing oldschool players but, stop it. Look I love Hakeem even more than Shaq, but let's get real here...Look at the facts, compile ever accomplishment along with the combination of numbers and resume. The facts show Kobe>>Hakeem.

Also the "Kobe has a better resume but ill take Hakeem because of his impact"....Umm, your consistant impact creates your resume!!. Are you ppl this dumb? Or is ur agendas taking control?

Then they make comments about a frontline carrying Kobe. You mean Bynums 6ppg and Odoms 12ppg during playoffs? No you can't mean that. Those facts eliminate ur "stacked frontline" argument.

Better off saying Gasols 18ppg 10reb during the 09' playoffs carried Kobe....Even though in those same playoffs CP3'S sidekick West was dropping those same numbers and Derrick Rose had Ben Gordon dropping 23ppg. Those guys arent overall better than Gasol aa an Alltime player, but in those playoffs they were on the same level.

Also if you gonna troll and discredit Kobe by spewing non factual comments. Then we might aswell open up the Hakeem troll box and say "he wouldn't of won a ring if Jordan didn't retire". But ur obvious agendas on this troll forum won't let you do that.

ignore this post and continue ur trolling.

[aau]

Knowing how each would turn out Hakeem would be drafted over Kobe by every franchise in the league Lakers included.

Id take Hakeem over anyone in the league right now....at their peak. Lebron, Kobe, Durant, KG, Dirk, Duncan....whoever.


actually , that first statement isn't saying a whole
helluva lot knowing that he was drafted a couple
of spots ahead of michael jordan whom many
consider the best player ever . . . . . . . .

and taking him over anyone currently in the league
is all well & good as long as you're prepared for
a multitude of 1st and 2nd round exits , and
only winning titles when the league's best
player is on a 2-year sabbatical . . . . .

let's check that superfluously-productive resume

85 - joins future HOF Ralph Sampson ---- 1stR loss to thurl bailey
86 - went 51-31 losing to BOS in 6 ------- FINALS L parish/mchale
87 - went 42-40 losing to SEA in 6 ------- 2ndR loss to alton lister
88 - went 46-36 losing to DAL in 4 ------- 1stR loss to sam perkins
89 - went 45-37 losing to SEA in 4 ------- 1stR loss to derrick mckey
90 - went 41-41 losing to LAL in 4 ------- 1stR L to team w/o KAJ
91 - went 52-30 swept by LAL 3-0 ------- 1stR loss to vlade divac
92 - went 42-40 avgd 21/12/2/4b -------- missed the playoffs
93 - went 55-27 losing to SEA in 7 ------- 2ndR loss to mckey again

went past the 2ndR ONCE his first 9 years including
FIVE 1stR exits , and after back-to-back titles was
swept by SEA and perkins in 2ndR just prior to
being ostertagged in back-to-back seasons

to reiterate:

thurl bailey
alton lister
sam perkins (twice)
derrick mckey (twice)
vlade divac (twice)
greg ostertag (twice)

[crisoner]

This is a tough one.

I live by the motto you ALWAYS take a big over any other player.

But I have few exceptions....Magic, Bird, Jordan, LeBron and Kobe f*cking Bryant.

So pulling out the exception card it's Kobe.

Killer Instinct Kobe has pushes him over.

And the two rings Hakeem has during Jordan's absence...:no:

[dyna]

This is a decision only made tough by looking at a list of accolades. Look at a basketball game I dont even see room for discussion. Its Hakeem. Not by like....3 miles. By by enough that there is virtually no realistic situation id choose Kobe.

Knowing how each would turn out Hakeem would be drafted over Kobe by every franchise in the league Lakers included.

Id take Hakeem over anyone in the league right now....at their peak. Lebron, Kobe, Durant, KG, Dirk, Duncan....whoever.

Though Duncan would be a thinker for a number of reasons.

This^

[Kblaze8855]

Amusing to me that so many of the anti Hakeem posts literally dont even mention anything about basketball. Talking about greg ****ing Osterteg and Alton Lister in series Hakeem handed out 50/25 games.

Hakeem put up 27/12 4 blocks and 2 steals a game in 86 on a finals run before losing to arguably the best team ever. 29/11/4/3 in 87. 38/17/3 in 88. 25/13/3/3/3 in 89. 19/12 6 blocks and 3 steals in 90. 22/15/3 in 91.Out in 92(they played on a 47 win pace when he played though). 26/14/5 blocks 5 assists and 2 steals in 93. 29/11/4 blocks and 4 assists a game on the way to a title in 94. 33/10/5/3 on the way to a ring in 95.

22 and 10 over the next 3 years before he fell off fully.

He was giving Kareem 40/12 in his second season, having 30/21/7 elimination games, giving 3 40 points games to the MVP in a week, and on and on and on. He made 3 finals and won 2 rings. Hes one of the best back against the wall players of all time.


And im to take points AWAY for his playoff performances?

**** outta here.

Hakeem was an elite post player, man to man defender, off the ball defender, rebounder, passer for his position, clutch performer, and all you could ask for in a franchise player and he was still a 19/10/3 block a game player at 36. He has nothing else to prove. Not being with a better player for 7 or 8 years does not mean hes worse at basketball.

[PJR]

There isn't a coach, general manger, or basketball executive alive who would chose Kobe Bryant over Hakeem Olajuwon to start their franchise from scratch.

Not a single one.

[GrapeApe]

There isn't a coach, general manger, or basketball executive alive who would chose Kobe Bryant over Hakeem Olajuwon to start their franchise from scratch.

Not a single one.

Agreed.

[Kblaze8855]

Can you imagine the impact Hakeem could have on an offense today with no illegal defense and next to no centers he has to guard? The entire NBa combined...all centers...

22 30 point games in 2013. And thats counting Duncan, Al Jefferson, Andy V and others who may or may not actually be remembered as centers. May have missed one or two but it cant be many.

Patrick Ewing had 19 in what id call his 4th best season and he wasnt even all nba THIRD team that year.

Hakeem would be able to just disregard most of the centers in the NBA and not worry abotu them erupting.

Tell Hakeem to just focus on shutting down the lane? You see what Hibbert was able to do in the playoffs? Hes 3 inches taller but hes probably a third as quick as Hakeem and jumps 16 inches.

Hakeem would be a terror.

Im sure some believe the modern rules would slow him on offense. But ill just say....I watched amare score 25 a game in 2011, Yao 25 a game in 06 or 07, and Dwight have 25 and 27ppg months in 2011.....I think Hakeem would do fine.

Id take him over 90% of the 20+ ppg guards in league history if all he had was his defense and faceup game. Including the rebounding, post game, passing, and total lack of giving a **** in pressure situations.....its barely even anything to consider.

In 2011 most people had Dwight as top 3 and many had him over Kobe. And Dwight in 2011 form had little if anyone on rookie Hakeem. Prime Hakeems today?

Probably 22-28 a game....the DPOY....top 3 clutch performer....top 3 rebounder...

Im not taking any guard out there over that. Just too many options. Hakeem is an embarrassment of riches compared to the scum that would be put in his way.

Maybe if Bynum, Yao, and Amare were healthy he would have to work mre than 7-8 nights a season. But thats a massive if........

[rhythmic]

There isn't a coach, general manger, or basketball executive alive who would chose Kobe Bryant over Hakeem Olajuwon to start their franchise from scratch.

Not a single one.

No one would take Michael Jordan over Kareem Abdul Jabbar either to start a team, but it doesn't make KAJ better.

[rhythmic]

Oh god please stop getting brainwashed by Kblaze, so tired of his endless propoganda against Kobe. He's like Obama against gun violence.

Pick and choose cookie cutter arguments against Kobe. Dude we know you drank Jordan's juice since 1984, but give it a rest.

:oldlol: "By by enough that there is virtually no realistic situation id choose Kobe." Yet you'd think about choosing Duncan, the same guy who got thoroughly destroyed by Kobe in the playoffs far too often. :rolleyes:

[Legends66NBA7]

This isn't about starting a team. That's not the question.

It's about who ranks higher on arbitrary lists. It's pretty close between them.

[PJR]

No one would take Michael Jordan over Kareem Abdul Jabbar either to start a team, but it doesn't make KAJ better.

Actually, that's more debatable, due to the absurd scoring efficiency in which Jordan scored at in his prime.

Kobe and Hakeem isn't debatable. Not even a little bit.

[K Xerxes]

:oldlol: "By by enough that there is virtually no realistic situation id choose Kobe." Yet you'd think about choosing Duncan, the same guy who got thoroughly destroyed by Kobe in the playoffs far too often. :rolleyes:

I must have missed the moments when Duncan was guarding Kobe out on the perimeter and Kobe was defending Duncan in the post. All one vs one. Not that this is at all relevant.

:facepalm

Everything KBlaze said is correct. And you're frankly ignorant of the game if you choose Kobe over Hakeem.

[rhythmic]

PJR & Xerxes, both Bulls fans right?

[Legends66NBA7]

PJR & Xerxes, both Bulls fans right?

PJR is a Heat fan. K Xerxes is a Bulls fan.

[PJR]

Bulls fan? lol. Not even close.

[rhythmic]

I must have missed the moments when Duncan was guarding Kobe out on the perimeter and Kobe was defending Duncan in the post. All one vs one. Not that this is at all relevant.

:facepalm

Everything KBlaze said is correct. And you're frankly ignorant of the game if you choose Kobe over Hakeem.

I'd probably choose Hakeem over Kobe via a draft selection, but I don't think in any way has Hakeem had a better career then Kobe or is a better player. He is a big man and it's only logical to pick him due to his position.

KBlaze, as per usual, makes it sound so one-sided unfavouring Kobe.
Dude is maybe the most modestly biased poster on this forum, no, he definitely is. Usually ignore everything he writes, but had to chuckle one more time. Dude is so condescending yet has writing skills of a 15 year old.

Here's how I see the comparison:

Peak: Hakeem
Draft: Hakeem
All-Time Place: Kobe, can not ignore his skill set, longevity and accolades. I don't care if he's a guard. Kobe achieved more in less then a decade then Hakeem has in his entire career. Longevity, and accolades put Kobe over Hakeem as far as career is concerned and both of them are two of the most skilled basketball players we've seen and will ever see.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I don't agree w/ everything KBlaze posts (especially his opinion of Reggie Miller), but he's right about Hakeem and Kobe.

Olajuwon was a complete player.... statistically ELITE in just about every category. Hard to pick against that.

[K Xerxes]

PJR & Xerxes, both Bulls fans right?

Bulls fan, but Hakeem is probably my second favorite player of all time (behind MJ) speaking as a basketball purist.


I'd probably choose Hakeem over Kobe via a draft selection, but I don't think in any way has Hakeem had a better career then Kobe or is a better player. He is a big man and it's only logical to pick him due to his position.

KBlaze, as per usual, makes it sound so one-sided unfavouring Kobe.
Dude is maybe the most modestly biased poster on this forum, no, he definitely is. Usually ignore everything he writes, but had to chuckle one more time. Dude is so condescending yet has writing skills of a 15 year old.

Here's how I see the comparison:

Peak: Hakeem
Draft: Hakeem
All-Time Place: Kobe, can not ignore his skill set, longevity and accolades. I don't care if he's a guard. Kobe achieved more in less then a decade then Hakeem has in his entire career. Longevity, and accolades put Kobe over Hakeem as far as career is concerned and both of them are two of the most skilled basketball players we've seen and will ever see.

Accolades favor Kobe without a doubt, but I don't believe they indicate who the better players are. In terms of skill set... that's probably a wash. They are without question two of the most skilled players of all time, and will leave you with jaw dropping moves in games. Longevity favors Kobe too (but you have to remember that Hakeem was more dominant right into the NBA and it took a few years for Kobe to really reach that level). Career-wise is dependent on how you view it as I believe Hakeem was less fortunate in terms of team make up than everyone else in the consensus top 11, so I feel that his inferior career resume isn't necessarily down to him. What he did with those 94 and 95 teams were undeniably all time top tier great.

However, in terms of two way impact on the game... it's Hakeem. Whether he's a big - or whatever other reason - doesn't change that fact. And that's what defines a better player as they will contribute more to victories. I'm not in the business of pitying players because they're smaller and have other-worldly skills; if a big guy has more impact on the game because he's bigger, then I take him 10/10.

[aau]

but big men are said to have the greatest impact on the game
how do you lose with a player that's putting up 55/27
how does this guy never get past the 2nd round

contrarily , give kobe a player half as talented as hakeem
you get 3 straight finals and back-to-back titles

and it's not like the league was all that hella either

check the all star game

kenny anderson - mookie blaylock - bj armstrong - d coleman
ho grant - oakley - starks - cliff robinson - danny manning

up for scoring title during that era

chambers - m.adams - mullin - mashburn - sprewell - g rice
old ass alex english - kiki vandeweghe and antoine walker

so outside of

karl malone - barkley - ewing - drob - drexler and hakeem

those were the best players in the league

he wasn't losing to jordan - couldn't make it there

loss to thurl bailey - d mckey - perkins - vlade and ostertag

has any top 10 player ever lost to this many scrubs

55/27 is nice , but to lose with them numbers
to guys like this , , , , , , where's the impact