MJ might have the best resume ever. but peak for peak. who'd i draft? hes 6th alltime

[kennethgriffin]

6 rings .... blah

all nba teams......meh

all defensive teams.... hah




i'l admit jordan has it all.. probably the most balanced all around resume. but would i draft him first?

heck no

and thats all that really matters... peak and dominance/value

ya jordan is great at defense. he might have gotten a few 1st team defenses gifted to him though. i have no evidence of this. but its my opinion and thats fact as far as i'm concerned

whats legitimate is that jordan cant anchor a defense

and if you asked me who is more valuable and can give a bigger impact in their peak seasons ( which is obviously the determination of whos the better player DEEEUUUR )

i'l go with

#1 shaquille O'neal ( i think its a given on ISH that we all can agree in his prime he was by far the most dominant ever. )

#2 Wilt Chamberlain ( the ultimate athlete.. most dominant ever before shaq came along )

#3 oscar robertson ( averaged a triple double. definitely more valuable than MJ )

#4 hakeem olajuwon ( anchored a defense. best defensive player in the nba. most offensively skilled big man ever. in his prime he was much more valuable to a team than MJ. gotta draft him over MJ. who cares if he accomplished less in his life than a half wit like Kobe from 2005-2013 )

#5 Lebron James ( now i know his career isnt over yet. but he has to be drafted ahead of MJ... i mean we all know team accomplishments dont matter. so the only thing MJ has over him is 1 mvp and a few ppg. while james can defend all 5 positions and play point guard while scoring pretty much the same )



heck i might even take elgin baylor over MJ.. maybe jordan could be pushed to 7th





http://i41.tinypic.com/2lxwax0.jpg

[Electric Slide]

where is kobe?

[SuperPippen]

I can certainly understand taking a dominant big man over MJ, but Lebron or Robertson? Not to belittle their greatness, but no.

[kennethgriffin]

I can certainly understand taking a dominant big man over MJ, but Lebron or Robertson? Not to belittle their greatness, but no.

why not

all jordan has over lebron is success... that doesnt count

its about who's got more to offer

james and robertson did more all around for their teams. so it doesnt matter whos the better player

peak for peak

value for value

no rings allowed

no resumes allowed

just think with your brain moron :roll:

havent you seen the hakeem vs kobe thread.

[KNOW1EDGE]

OP has neither a d1ck nor a brain.

Mods, delete this thread. Ban this sorry excuse for a troll.

[kennethgriffin]

OP has neither a d1ck nor a brain.

Mods, delete this thread. Ban this sorry excuse for a troll.


common man. guys like you were just using this method to diss kobe

why can't i use it against mj?

:lol

[kobeef24]

where is kobe?

Hahaha yeah I was expecting to see Kobe at the first spot. I still wouldn't take LeBron or Oscar over MJ though.

[kennethgriffin]

Hahaha yeah I was expecting to see Kobe at the first spot. I still wouldn't take LeBron or Oscar over MJ though.

havent you ever heard of the hakeem formula though?

resumes dont matter


how would you know mj was better if you never saw what he did!

you're not allowed knowing damnit!!! pretend its just guys and you knew what they could do in their peak seasons n such... mhmmmmm

french fried putaters





http://i41.tinypic.com/2lxwax0.jpg

[TylerOO]

I agree for the most part but LeBron should be one

[SuperPippen]

why not

all jordan has over lebron is success... that doesnt count

its about who's got more to offer

james and robertson did more all around for their teams. so it doesnt matter whos the better player

peak for peak

value for value

no rings allowed

no resumes allowed

just think with your brain moron :roll:

havent you seen the hakeem vs kobe thread.

I would seriously advise you to stop throwing these tantrums just because people disagree with you.

We get it, you think Kobe Bryant is the greatest thing that has ever happened to to the universe. Almost everybody with a brain disagrees with you, but hey, these are all ultimately opinions that can't be proven.

So why do invest your self so deeply, and why do you devote so much of your time, into launching these pathetic diatribes of any player who could possibly compare with Kobe?

Making an imbecile of yourself (along with your buddy 9er, although he is honestly far more disgusting) only discredits your viewpoint. Ever wondered why there are so many irrational Kobe haters? Well, maybe it's because there are so many equally irrational Kobe lovers.

Why can't you just espouse your admiration of Kobe, and discuss the things that make him great, without attacking other equally great players? Accept that people disagree with a lot of the ridiculous things you say, and move on.

[MisterAmazing]

even when kobe's name isn't mentioned OP's sucking his c0ck

[VIntageNOvel]

errr while once in 100 thread theres an rare occurrence when kenneth didnt bring kobe, you guys still mentioning kobe a lot, i dont know whos more insecure here, granted hes makin this thread to prove his point: peak wise hakeem is better than kobe, but doesnt mean higher in goat list (from hakeem vs kobe thread)

but he makin a reasonable thread here, a valid statement and arguably right, without sucking kobe dick, and you guys goin ham about kobe :facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

I would seriously advise you to stop throwing these tantrums just because people disagree with you.

We get it, you think Kobe Bryant is the greatest thing that has ever happened to to the universe. Almost everybody with a brain disagrees with you, but hey, these are all ultimately opinions that can't be proven.

So why do invest your self so deeply, and why do you devote so much of your time, into launching these pathetic diatribes of any player who could possibly compare with Kobe?

Making an imbecile of yourself (along with your buddy 9er, although he is honestly far more disgusting) only discredits your viewpoint. Ever wondered why there are so many irrational Kobe haters? Well, maybe it's because there are so many equally irrational Kobe lovers.

Why can't you just espouse your admiration of Kobe, and discuss the things that make him great, without attacking other equally great players? Accept that people disagree with a lot of the ridiculous things you say, and move on.


kobe sucks though. hes not even a top 20 player all time based on the peak for peak personal opinion formula without resume/team accomplishments counting

so i don't have a clue where you're coming up with this idea that i think kobe is anything better than a chucking brick layer

hakeem > lebron > .... like this spot matters > mj > who cares >>>>>>>> kobe



http://i44.tinypic.com/25p4948.jpg


for

http://i39.tinypic.com/2n9lv0h.jpg

[Lakers2877]

I'd draft Wilt, Kareem, Shaq and Magic over MJ

[0000000]

I don't buy the argument that prime Shaq > prime MJ and I never did. Shaq always could've been beaten. And he almost was in 2000. Took some miracle shots from Kobe against the Suns and Blazers that year to carry the Lakers and that's the year when Shaq was in his prime, Suns and Blazers weren't all that, cerainly not to threaten the most dominant ever and Kobe still wasn't superstar level. He was in fact a sidekick that year. Something he wasn't ever again.

In MJ's prime, he wasn't beaten, he could not have been beaten. He was just better. It's just the case of overrating big men. Happens here all the time.

[Lakers2877]

why not

all jordan has over lebron is success... that doesnt count

its about who's got more to offer

james and robertson did more all around for their teams. so it doesnt matter whos the better player

peak for peak

value for value

no rings allowed

no resumes allowed

just think with your brain moron :roll:

havent you seen the hakeem vs kobe thread.
Success is all Jordan has over Lebron?

I assume you're trolling?

[WayOfWade]

I think he's been hacked. Kenneth never acts this rational, on top of that not so much as touching Kobe's nuts.

[KG215]

I'm 99.99999% sure Griff made this thread as a joke because he's constantly bitching about people saying _______ had a better peak than Kobe, saying how stupid and little sense it makes to use that in an argument.

If he's being serious, though, then he turned a complete 180 in just a few hours, because he was just bitching a few hours ago about posters saying Hakeem had a better peak than Kobe in the Kobe and Hakeem thread.

[kobeef24]

havent you ever heard of the hakeem formula though?

resumes dont matter


how would you know mj was better if you never saw what he did!

you're not allowed knowing damnit!!! pretend its just guys and you knew what they could do in their peak seasons n such... mhmmmmm

french fried putaters





http://i41.tinypic.com/2lxwax0.jpg

I should have realized you had an agenda. I was actually able to tolerate your trolling for a while and it was funny at times, but now it's getting out of hand and you're just becoming annoying again.

[fpliii]

Griff - I know you're kidding but Oscar aside (and I'm a huge huge fan of his), I agree with what you're saying. Resume means nothing to me, only impact (not just peak, but the degree to which you improve your team's chances of winning and for how many seasons you play at that top level). I don't know who my top five would be in a draft but it might very well be all bigs.

I'd recommend you go to the RealGM PC board and look at the stickied thread about a project ElGee is doing. Forces you to evaluate players systematically, and changes the way you think about greats.

This isn't even about slighting Kobe. If you think he gives you the best chance of winning everything else being equal, he's your guy. Same with Hakeem, etc.

[COnDEMnED]

Even trolling im a bit surprised to see you didn't list Kareem. Maybe it's because you're trolling that you didn't include him?

[kennethgriffin]

Griff - I know you're kidding but Oscar aside (and I'm a huge huge fan of his), I agree with what you're saying. Resume means nothing to me, only impact (not just peak, but the degree to which you improve your team's chances of winning and for how many seasons you play at that top level). I don't know who my top five would be in a draft but it might very well be all bigs.

I'd recommend you go to the RealGM PC board and look at the stickied thread about a project ElGee is doing. Forces you to evaluate players systematically, and changes the way you think about greats.

This isn't even about slighting Kobe. If you think he gives you the best chance of winning everything else being equal, he's your guy. Same with Hakeem, etc.


sometimes players sacrifice to win

sometimes players are clutch

sometimes players are chokers

sometimes players have no heart

sometimes players have more will to win

sometimes players are only good for a short period of time

sometimes players have a few fluke years based on the era, team, situation, refs


all i know is that resumes do count. theyre used to give a bit of hindsight to clarify who's better between 2 similar players


ofcourse this thread was bs. it was made to show just how much people on here will change their agenda, flip flop to put kobe down. while they themselves are mostly people who say jordan is the end all be all goat bar none. and they cant even stick to their own formula when it comes to jordan vs everyone else. then resumes all of a sudden do count.

people are just f*cking morons on here and i felt like pointing it out

[MisterAmazing]

sometimes players sacrifice to win

sometimes players are clutch

sometimes players are chokers

sometimes players have no heart

sometimes players have more will to win

sometimes players are only good for a short period of time

sometimes players have a few fluke years based on the era, team, situation, refs


all i know is that resumes do count. theyre used to give a bit of hindsight to clarify who's better between 2 similar players


ofcourse this thread was bs. it was made to show just how much people on here will change their agenda, flip flop to put kobe down. while they themselves are mostly people who say jordan is the end all be all goat bar none. and they cant even stick to their own formula when it comes to jordan vs everyone else. then resumes all of a sudden do count.

people are just f*cking morons on here and i felt like pointing it out

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/579107_351264634992038_221926762_n.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/579107_351264634992038_221926762_n.jpg

ya lebrons entire resume looks pretty good compared to half of kobes


:lol

[TonyMontana]

Oscar Robertson blows...

You see his jumpshot form? Terrible. His stats are inflated because of the pace and possessions teams played in that era.

When you adjust his pace and possessions and compare it to the present counterpart(LeBron) you realize just how inferior he really is.

Oscar Robertson 1961-62:

18.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 6.9 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

30.8 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 11.4 apg in his ~150 poss. per game. & 44.3 mpg.

LeBron James 2009-10::

33.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 9.6 apg in 100 poss. per game & 40 mpg

29.7 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 8.6 apg in his 91.4 poss. per game & 39.0 mpg.

As you can see in the set amount(100 possessions and 40 MPG) you see LeBron is WORLDS better than Oscar Robertson, a guy who could hardly dribble without staring at the floor.

The Real Top 5
1. Shaq
---
---
---
2. Duncan
3. LeBron
4. Bird
5. Wilt

LeBron has quickly moved up the leaderboard. He is definite top 5 now with 2 titles with weak casts, two Finals MVPs, 4 MVPs, and still only 28 years old. LeBron is perhaps the only player in NBA History you can put 4 scrubs with and be a contender. Still not as dominant as Prime Shaq, and he still needs a few more years to pass Timmy.

[kennethgriffin]

Oscar Robertson blows...

You see his jumpshot form? Terrible. His stats are inflated because of the pace and possessions teams played in that era.

When you adjust his pace and possessions and compare it to the present counterpart(LeBron) you realize just how inferior he really is.

Oscar Robertson 1961-62:

18.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 6.9 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

30.8 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 11.4 apg in his ~150 poss. per game. & 44.3 mpg.

LeBron James 2009-10::

33.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 9.6 apg in 100 poss. per game & 40 mpg

29.7 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 8.6 apg in his 91.4 poss. per game & 39.0 mpg.

As you can see in the set amount(100 possessions and 40 MPG) you see LeBron is WORLDS better than Oscar Robertson, a guy who could hardly dribble without staring at the floor.

The Real Top 5
1. Shaq
---
---
---
2. Duncan
3. LeBron
4. Bird
5. Wilt

LeBron has quickly moved up the leaderboard. He is definite top 5 now with 2 titles with weak casts, two Finals MVPs, 4 MVPs, and still only 28 years old. LeBron is perhaps the only player in NBA History you can put 4 scrubs with and be a contender. Still not as dominant as Prime Shaq, and he still needs a few more years to pass Timmy.


:biggums: dude.. did you just make a peak vs peak no accomplishment ranking formula and list his accomplishments as part of your reasoning

:lol

idiot

[COnDEMnED]

Oscar Robertson blows...

You see his jumpshot form? Terrible. His stats are inflated because of the pace and possessions teams played in that era.

When you adjust his pace and possessions and compare it to the present counterpart(LeBron) you realize just how inferior he really is.

Oscar Robertson 1961-62:

18.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 6.9 apg in 100 poss. per game. & 40 mpg.

30.8 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 11.4 apg in his ~150 poss. per game. & 44.3 mpg.

LeBron James 2009-10::

33.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 9.6 apg in 100 poss. per game & 40 mpg

29.7 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 8.6 apg in his 91.4 poss. per game & 39.0 mpg.

As you can see in the set amount(100 possessions and 40 MPG) you see LeBron is WORLDS better than Oscar Robertson, a guy who could hardly dribble without staring at the floor.

The Real Top 5
1. Shaq
---
---
---
2. Duncan
3. LeBron
4. Bird
5. Wilt

LeBron has quickly moved up the leaderboard. He is definite top 5 now with 2 titles with weak casts, two Finals MVPs, 4 MVPs, and still only 28 years old. LeBron is perhaps the only player in NBA History you can put 4 scrubs with and be a contender. Still not as dominant as Prime Shaq, and he still needs a few more years to pass Timmy.
Hook, line, and sinker.

[9erempiree]

:biggums: dude.. did you just make a peak vs peak no accomplishment ranking formula and list his accomplishments as part of your reasoning

:lol

idiot

pwned.

You messin' with rookies here. They not on your level.

[TonyMontana]

:biggums: dude.. did you just make a peak vs peak no accomplishment ranking formula and list his accomplishments as part of your reasoning

:lol

idiot

Reminding the uneducated of what LeBron has accomplished.

LeBron is winning every "youngest player to _____" award. He will have all of the longevity awards when his career is over to go along with his all-time GOAT peak play so it doesn't matter which way you slice it. Only player to win a title without a frontcourt(2 in a row). The King goes for his threepeat with no frontcourt.

[COnDEMnED]

Reminding the uneducated of what LeBron has accomplished.

LeBron is winning every "youngest player to _____" award. He will have all of the longevity awards when his career is over to go along with his all-time GOAT peak play so it doesn't matter which way you slice it. Only player to win a title without a frontcourt(2 in a row). The King goes for his threepeat with no frontcourt.
Does Bosh not count as part of the Heat front court? I admit I wasn't able to watch EVERY Heat playoff game the last 2 playoff runs, but didn't Bosh win a series or two for Miami? No Bosh, no rings, correct?

[TonyMontana]

Does Bosh not count as part of the Heat front court? I admit I wasn't able to watch EVERY Heat playoff game the last 2 playoff runs, but didn't Bosh win a series or two for Miami? No Bosh, no rings, correct?

Correct

Rings are ultimately a team accomplishment, not an individual one. All the players playing put in a big part.

For example take World Peace off the 2010 Lakers and they dont win a title. Does it mean World Peace was an all-star player that Gasol rode to a ring? Nope.

Chris Bosh hardly qualifies as a dominant frontcourt player. He averaged 4 RPG vs the Pacers, his entire offensive game involves 20 foot jumpshots, and he is softer than toilet paper. No inside presence. Replace him with a real bigman like Joakim Noah and Miami would be winning 70 games and going 16-0 in the playoffs.

[VIntageNOvel]

Seriously? now we have to watch Kennethgriffin and Tonymontana fight :facepalm

[2LeTTeRS]

While rings may be overrated here, individual performances when the stakes are the highest are not. You cannot disregard how impressive MJ proved himself to be throughout the playoffs.

There are only 2 to 3 people who can legitimately be argued to be as good as MJ at his prime, and for as great as they were (are) Oscar, LeBron and Hakeem are not on that list. Shaq had all the tools to be on the list, but to me his questionable work ethic brings him down. I don't see any other of the greats deciding to rehab on "company time" or taking as little care of their bodies as Shaq did -- and personally, I just can't rank a guy that high who lacks the passion for the game.

[Psileas]

i think its a given on ISH that we all can agree in his prime he was by far the most dominant ever.

How do people make such baseless claims? Who/What topic has ever established this?
Anyway, you'd be wrong, not even close to "we all" can agree that he was the MDE, let alone "by far".

[Hittin_Shots]

errr while once in 100 thread theres an rare occurrence when kenneth didnt bring kobe, you guys still mentioning kobe a lot, i dont know whos more insecure here, granted hes makin this thread to prove his point: peak wise hakeem is better than kobe, but doesnt mean higher in goat list (from hakeem vs kobe thread)

but he makin a reasonable thread here, a valid statement and arguably right, without sucking kobe dick, and you guys goin ham about kobe :facepalm

This thread is in all entirety about Kobe, clearly it just went straight over ur head.

[PickernRoller]

Correct

Rings are ultimately a team accomplishment, not an individual one.



Likewise, Individual performance in a team game is dependent on teammates. So Jordan going 30-7-6 in a game is also dependent on the teammates he has on the floor. His FG% is also affected by the teammates he has on the floor.

Nutjobs love to separate individual performance as an static metric affected only by an individual's ability when that is totally incorrect. Granted, individual performance is affected more by a players individual skills/talent and marginally by the teammates surrounding him but still over time and throughout a season certain tendencies and trends develop. Depending on particular and unique circumstances the effect of teammates on individual performance can be notable for some players more so than others and I am not referring to "success on win scales" or what ISH refers to as "help". Just like a superstar can help makes those around him better - that old lovable logic, so too can teammates do the same for the star player.

To OP:

Yes Hakeem, Wilt, Lebron and Shaq > Jordan. You gotta wonder why he's the GOAT. Like who's choosing?

[riseagainst]

I agree for the most part but LeBron should be one

:roll:

[poido123]

I'd have Shaq or MJ number 1.

:lol Lebron

[Fresh Kid]

I agree for the most part but LeBron should be one
:roll:

[SamuraiSWISH]

MJ's peak from spring of 1989 - fall of 1993 is the BEST peak of all-time. No questions asked. Everyone else comes in 2nd place. Including Shaq, Bird, Magic, LeBron, Kobe, Wilt, Kareem, West ... you name it, and MJ was better.

[Soundwave]

Filling a stat sheet doesn't equate to winning.

Too many "basketball experts" don't understand that basketball is also an issue of will power.

Do you shrink in big moments? Can you handle pressure? Can you bend the game to your will when it counts?

2 points is 2 points, but it's a hell of a lot harder to get those 2 points when everything is going wrong, and the other team is hounding you, and you're down, and you're tired, and you're basically beat.

What do you have in the tank then?

THAT to me is what marks a really great player. That's to me what defines a true champion, not just "well he had 10 rebounds per!!!", lol.

Separate men from the boys.

Shaq to me is phenomenal, but that said, he lost several series' which IMO he should not have lost. All the points/rebounds/blocks and fancy stat sheets and even dunks don't matter if you can't stop your team from losing.

MJ did not lose to the Utah Jazz multiple times in the playoffs (see: Shaq), nor did he lose in the NBA finals against lesser talented teams (see: again Shaq) nor would he ever get punked and shown up by Dirk Nowitzki (see: LeBron) in an NBA Finals. There's no real "stat" for not shrinking in big do or die moments.

[poido123]

MJ's peak from spring of 1989 - fall of 1993 is the BEST peak of all-time. No questions asked. Everyone else comes in 2nd place. Including Shaq, Bird, Magic, LeBron, Kobe, Wilt, Kareem, West ... you name it, and MJ was better.

It's not unquestionable. Shaq's 2000-2002 is beastly also. If you did have Jordan's peak higher than Shaq's, it would be a bee's dick difference.

[Marchesk]

james and robertson did more all around for their teams. so it doesnt matter whos the better player

So why did you leave Magic off? He had a few tipple doubles in his day.

[Marchesk]

The Real Top 5
1. Shaq
---
---
---
2. Duncan
3. LeBron
4. Bird
5. Wilt


What? No Kareem in your top 5? And how is Duncan's resume better than Magic's?

[TonyMontana]

What? No Kareem in your top 5? And how is Duncan's resume better than Magic's?

Kareem had some prime years where he didn't even make the playoffs. That moves him down.

Duncans took an organization that never won shit and has them winning 50+ games every year for over 15 years. Had David Robinson to start his career, but even after he declined SAS didn't miss a beat. Even at age 37 he is the the third best player in the NBA.

Magic forced his way to LA because he wanted to play on LA with Kareem and on a stacked team. If Chicago drafted him he threatened not to come out. That moves him down compared to guys like Bird/Duncan(Bird turning a 20something win team into a 61 win juggernaut).

If Magic played today he'd probably play SF and be similar to LeBron. Similar players except I see LeBron as faster, stronger, more athletic, better scorer, much better defensive player, just a superior version of Magic. Maybe the vision isn't as good as Magics, but you got to think if LeBron had the Showtime Lakers he would play more like that rather than being forced to score 30+ for his teams to win. You gotta look at LeBron almost losing to 37 year old Tim Duncans team. If Tim Duncan is in his prime and playing elite 40 minutes the Spurs win easily. That puts him above both Magic and LeBron.

Part of the reason the Spurs turn nobodies into contributors is because of the system built around Duncan. Him and Dirk are the most underrated players ever.

[Jameerthefear]

What? No Kareem in your top 5? And how is Duncan's resume better than Magic's?
Don't argue with him. He's a moron.

[TheMan]

MJ's peak from spring of 1989 - fall of 1993 is the BEST peak of all-time. No questions asked. Everyone else comes in 2nd place. Including Shaq, Bird, Magic, LeBron, Kobe, Wilt, Kareem, West ... you name it, and MJ was better.
Pretty much this though Shaq had the second most dominant peak I've ever seen.

[LikeABosh]

Im shocked that I agree with you. Now I dont really agree on the five players or the order they are listed but overall, good post.

[diamenz]

r u trying to start a quality thread, or just troll jordan?

[tmacattack33]

I might take peak Shaq over peak MJ. And that'd be about it.

[Lakers2877]

Kareem had some prime years where he didn't even make the playoffs. That moves him down.

Duncans took an organization that never won shit and has them winning 50+ games every year for over 15 years. Had David Robinson to start his career, but even after he declined SAS didn't miss a beat. Even at age 37 he is the the third best player in the NBA.

Magic forced his way to LA because he wanted to play on LA with Kareem and on a stacked team. If Chicago drafted him he threatened not to come out. That moves him down compared to guys like Bird/Duncan(Bird turning a 20something win team into a 61 win juggernaut).

If Magic played today he'd probably play SF and be similar to LeBron. Similar players except I see LeBron as faster, stronger, more athletic, better scorer, much better defensive player, just a superior version of Magic. Maybe the vision isn't as good as Magics, but you got to think if LeBron had the Showtime Lakers he would play more like that rather than being forced to score 30+ for his teams to win. You gotta look at LeBron almost losing to 37 year old Tim Duncans team. If Tim Duncan is in his prime and playing elite 40 minutes the Spurs win easily. That puts him above both Magic and LeBron.

Part of the reason the Spurs turn nobodies into contributors is because of the system built around Duncan. Him and Dirk are the most underrated players ever.
How did magic force his way to LA?

[Lakers2877]

" if magic played today he would be a SF " lol wtf

[dyna]

I'm 99.99999% sure Griff made this thread as a joke because he's constantly bitching about people saying _______ had a better peak than Kobe, saying how stupid and little sense it makes to use that in an argument.

If he's being serious, though, then he turned a complete 180 in just a few hours, because he was just bitching a few hours ago about posters saying Hakeem had a better peak than Kobe in the Kobe and Hakeem thread.

:applause: