Kobe 5 titles And 2 finals mvps VS Bird 3 titles And 2 Finals MVPs

[The Rock]

Kobe 15 Time All-Star vs Bird 12 Time All-Star

Kobe 4 All Star MVPs vs Bird 1 Allstar MVP.

Kobe 11 Time All-NBA 1st Team vs Bird 9 All NBA 1st Team

Kobe 9 All-Defensive 1st Team Vs Bird 0 All Defensive First Teams.

Kobe 31,617 career Points VS Bird 21,791pts

Kobe 5,640 Career Playoff points Vs Bird 3,897 Career playoff points.

Kobe Player of Month 17times vs Bird player of Month 7 times (Peak in league Impact) (Bird only 2 more MVP Awards due to media bias, which has been well documented).

Bird only better rebounder. Solely due to his 6-10 Power Forward height.


Kobe is a Better player than Bird. These are FACT. You Jabroni's just need to accept it and erase the nostalgia of your minds. View facts with no bias and let your basketball IQ seek the truth!

[OldSkoolball#52]

:roll:


"Kobe > Larry Bird"














:roll:

[The Rock]

:roll:


"Kobe > Larry Bird"














:roll:

You come to the thread and the only thing you could possibly deliver! Is a smiley lol ....You lose.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

You come to the thread and the only thing you could possibly deliver! Is a smiley lol ....You lose.
When u come out with stupid threads expect stupid responses

[The Rock]

When u come out with stupid threads expect stupid responses

ANOTHER POSTER WHO CAN'T EXCEPT THE FACTS! POSTERS ARE NOW 0-2

[NASH = BEST]

I never saw Bird play but my gut feeling tells me that once its all said and done Kobe will leapfrog Bird on GOAT list as time goes on.

Some may think not, but all-time rankings sort of evolve over time.

Take for instance Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, and baseball. I read somewhere a while back that when both these dudes retired and entered the Hall of Fame, Ty Cobb was considered baseball's GOAT player. Ruth was behind Cobb on most all-time lists, and it remained that way till they both died. Then, despite both being dead for a while, Ruth leapfrogs Cobb as GOAT.

Weird huh...

Anyways, I think Kobe's legacy will benefit from his longevity and exposure, and likely leapfrogs other players, that were probably better than him, but will be forgotten as time goes on.

[ball4life27]

bird had 3 straight MVP's kobe had 1
bird > kobe

[The Rock]

bird had 3 straight MVP's kobe had 1
bird > kobe

DOES THIS ONE THING TRUPM THE TOTAL DOMINANCE IN THE OP? NOPE.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

ANOTHER POSTER WHO CAN'T EXCEPT THE FACTS! POSTERS ARE NOW 0-2
Do you mean accept?
Bird had great teams but never had the advantage of playing alongside prime shaq. He also didn't face finals competiton as weak as the 09 magic

[TheReal Kendall]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/nope.gif

[9erempiree]

How can people compare Bird to Kobe when Bird isn't the best Celtic. Pierce is.

[TheReal Kendall]

How can people compare Bird to Kobe when Bird isn't the best Celtic. Pierce is.

True.

But... Pierce > Bird >>>> Kobe

[TheMilkyBarKid]

How can people compare Bird to Kobe when Bird isn't the best Celtic. Pierce is.
And Kobe isn't the best Laker.

[KG215]

Three year old account and 42 posts, a lot of which are from today...either one of Kobe's fans dug up an alt account to do some trolling, or a LeBron or Jordan fan is having some fun with everyone.

[kennethgriffin]

just like my magic vs kobe thread.


bird had only 3 titles with hall of famers ROBERT PARISH, KEVIN MCHALE, NATE ARCHIBALD, DENNIS JOHNSON, BILL WALTON.... and cedric maxwell the only non other hall of famer STOLE A FINALS MVP?




kobe had 3 titles with 1 hall of famer ( shaq )... 2 more titles with NO HALL OF FAMER


this is a joke

[Crafty]

You use All Star MVPs to compare both players. A friendly game mvp but the Regular Season MVPs don't count because the media was biased towards Bird?

[greymatter]

All Kobe fellators and their retarded cousins are coming out of the woodwork to make pathetic attempts at downplaying Bird and Russell's abilities and accomplishments.

Wish another Jim Jones would come along and spirit every single one of them away.

[OldSkoolball#52]

I never saw Bird play but my gut feeling tells me that once its all said and done Kobe will leapfrog Bird on GOAT list as time goes on.

Some may think not, but all-time rankings sort of evolve over time.

Take for instance Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, and baseball. I read somewhere a while back that when both these dudes retired and entered the Hall of Fame, Ty Cobb was considered baseball's GOAT player. Ruth was behind Cobb on most all-time lists, and it remained that way till they both died. Then, despite both being dead for a while, Ruth leapfrogs Cobb as GOAT.

Weird huh...

Anyways, I think Kobe's legacy will benefit from his longevity and exposure, and likely leapfrogs other players, that were probably better than him, but will be forgotten as time goes on.


There's definite truth in this.

I bet if you polled people over 50, a lot fewer of them would have Jordan as GOAT than people under 50 would. You'd probably get a lot more Russell, KAJ, even Bird and Magic listed as GOAT with that crowd.

Hell if you poll people under 25, you might get Lebron as the most frequently listed GOAT player.

Likewise if you were to poll Kobe's immediate family, you'd probably get Lebron being named the GOAT player.

[The Rock]

You use All Star MVPs to compare both players. A friendly game mvp but the Regular Season MVPs don't count because the media was biased towards Bird?

I GIVE YOU THE MVPS, STILL DOESN'T TRUMP BRYANTS RESUME, NOT ONE POSTER HAS THROWN FACTS TO DEBUNK EVERY MAJOR ACCOMPLISHMENT KOBE CRUSHS BIRD IN

[Derka]

lol, no he's not.

[The Rock]

Do you mean accept?
Bird had great teams but never had the advantage of playing alongside prime shaq. He also didn't face finals competiton as weak as the 09 magic

THIS IS YOUR DEBUNK? BRYANT BEAT A MAGIC TEAM THAT BEAT A LEBRON LED CAVS TEAM. DWIGHT WAS THE BEST CENTER IN THE LEAGUE.:roll:

[Carbine]

I'll be surprised if Kobe doesn't leapfrog or at least be even with Bird as time goes by. Kobe is going to be one of those guys whos legacy will only get stronger as time goes by after he retires due to his incredible scoring binges and rediculous resume/accolades.

[The Rock]

lol, no he's not.

ANOTHER ONE LINER WITH NO ARGUMENT OR ANYTHING TO DISPUTE THE FACTS POSTED IN THE OP. :roll:

[The Rock]

I'll be surprised if Kobe doesn't leapfrog or at least be even with Bird as time goes by. Kobe is going to be one of those guys whos legacy will only get stronger as time goes by after he retires due to his incredible scoring binges and rediculous resume/accolades.

PLEASE READ THE FACTS IN OP. KOBE ALREADY TRUMPS BIRD.

[JtotheIzzo]

Shooting - Bird
Rebounding - Bird
Passing - Bird
Free Throws - Bird
Leadership - Bird
Big game temperament - Bird
Clutchness - Bird
Defense - Bird
intangibles - Bird

Outside of longevity, athleticism and rape, I am not really sure where Kobe stacks up better.

Kobe had a brief glint as the best player in the game (post Shaq, Duncan decline, pre-LeBron), Bird and Magic saved the game from the brink of disaster and was the undisputed leader on the best team ever ('86 Celtics).

The OP is a troll, this is not close and those who entertain it should slap themselves.

[thabisyo]

Kobe 15 Time All-Star vs Bird 12 Time All-Star

Kobe 4 All Star MVPs vs Bird 1 Allstar MVP.

Kobe 11 Time All-NBA 1st Team vs Bird 9 All NBA 1st Team

Kobe 9 All-Defensive 1st Team Vs Bird 0 All Defensive First Teams.

Kobe 31,617 career Points VS Bird 21,791pts

Kobe 5,640 Career Playoff points Vs Bird 3,897 Career playoff points.

Kobe Player of Month 17times vs Bird player of Month 7 times (Peak in league Impact) (Bird only 2 more MVP Awards due to media bias, which has been well documented).

Bird only better rebounder. Solely due to his 6-10 Power Forward height.


Kobe is a Better player than Bird. These are FACT. You Jabroni's just need to accept it and erase the nostalgia of your minds. View facts with no bias and let your basketball IQ seek the truth!

I want to call you an idiot but you got the whole The rock uniform but

:biggums: WTF

[jzek]

Bird was never got gifted rings though. Kobe was gifted by Shaq 3 rings.

Bird > Kobe

If you don't think Kobe was gifted 3 rings then think about this - do you think LeBron, Wade, TMac, etc. wouldn't have won the same number of rings with PRIME Shaq?

Do you think those Celtics team would have won a title without Bird?

Bird > Kobe again

[OldSkoolball#52]

Bird was never got gifted rings though. Kobe was gifted by Shaq 3 rings.



Not to mention 2 from Gasol

[Derka]

ANOTHER ONE LINER WITH NO ARGUMENT OR ANYTHING TO DISPUTE THE FACTS POSTED IN THE OP. :roll:
Pretty much. That's about all your OP is deserving of. :oldlol:

[ZaaaaaH]

Bird was never got gifted rings though. Kobe was gifted by Shaq 3 rings.

Bird > Kobe

If you don't think Kobe was gifted 3 rings then think about this - do you think LeBron, Wade, TMac, etc. wouldn't have won the same number of rings with PRIME Shaq?

Do you think those Celtics team would have won a title without Bird?

Bird > Kobe again


Why does this dumb ass logic always bother me so much? :confusedshrug:

[TheMilkyBarKid]

THIS IS YOUR DEBUNK? BRYANT BEAT A MAGIC TEAM THAT BEAT A LEBRON LED CAVS TEAM. DWIGHT WAS THE BEST CENTER IN THE LEAGUE.:roll:
LeBron's performance in that series was epic.
And for the record most people had Dwight as the best center last year and Lakers still sucked ****. I bet you Kobe stans secretly love that he got injured, just so you could point your fingers at Dwight and pau. Kobe wouldn't have gotten you to the 2nd round :D

[AintNoSunshine]

ANOTHER POSTER WHO CAN'T EXCEPT THE FACTS! POSTERS ARE NOW 0-2


Another Kobe stan who's illiterate:facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

Bird was never got gifted rings though. Kobe was gifted by Shaq 3 rings.

Bird > Kobe

If you don't think Kobe was gifted 3 rings then think about this - do you think LeBron, Wade, TMac, etc. wouldn't have won the same number of rings with PRIME Shaq?

Do you think those Celtics team would have won a title without Bird?

Bird > Kobe again
Lets take a look at Kobe's production when he won his rings compared to Bird's.

Kobe
'00 playoffs: 21-5-4 on 52%ts
'01 playoffs: 29-7-6 on 56%ts
'02 playoffs: 27-6-5 on 51%ts
'09 playoffs: 30-6-5 on 56%ts
'10 playoffs: 29-6-6 on 57%ts

Bird
'81 playoffs: 22-14-6 on 53%ts
'84 playoffs: 28-11-6 on 61%ts
'86 playoffs: 26-9-8 on 62%ts

Finals runs, but ended in a loss - still an accomplishment to get there.

Kobe
'04 playoffs: 25-5-6 on 51%ts
'08 playoffs: 30-6-6 on 58%ts

Bird
'85 playoffs: 26-9-6 on 54%ts
'87 playoffs: 27-10-7 on 58%ts

[DuMa]

Monday. Kobe stans try to get their boy over Magic. fails.
Tuesday. Kobe stans try to get their boy over Bird. fails.
Wednesday's agenda is Kareem.
Thursday: Wilt.
Friday: Oscar.

[thabisyo]

Monday. Kobe stans try to get their boy over Magic. fails.
Tuesday. Kobe stans try to get their boy over Bird. fails.
Wednesday's agenda is Kareem.
Thursday: Wilt.
Friday: Oscar.

:applause:

Can I make a thread of this :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Lets take a look at Kobe's production when he won his rings compared to Bird's.

Kobe
'00 playoffs: 21-5-4 on 52%ts
'01 playoffs: 29-7-6 on 56%ts
'02 playoffs: 27-6-5 on 51%ts
'09 playoffs: 30-6-5 on 56%ts
'10 playoffs: 29-6-6 on 57%ts

Bird
'81 playoffs: 22-14-6 on 53%ts
'84 playoffs: 28-11-6 on 61%ts
'86 playoffs: 26-9-8 on 62%ts

Finals runs, but ended in a loss - still an accomplishment to get there.

Kobe
'04 playoffs: 25-5-6 on 51%ts
'08 playoffs: 30-6-6 on 58%ts

Bird
'85 playoffs: 26-9-6 on 54%ts
'87 playoffs: 27-10-7 on 58%ts

and the defensive efficiency of the teams they faced....

:roll:

[fsvr54]

Shooting - Bird
Rebounding - Bird
Passing - Bird
Free Throws - Bird
Leadership - Bird
Big game temperament - Bird
Clutchness - Bird
Defense - Bird
intangibles - Bird

Outside of longevity, athleticism and rape, I am not really sure where Kobe stacks up better.

Kobe had a brief glint as the best player in the game (post Shaq, Duncan decline, pre-LeBron), Bird and Magic saved the game from the brink of disaster and was the undisputed leader on the best team ever ('86 Celtics).

The OP is a troll, this is not close and those who entertain it should slap themselves.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Literally lol'd

[kennethgriffin]

Shooting - Bird ( lol wtf is shooting? 1 part of scoring.. which kobe does more of and has more weapons )
Rebounding - Bird ( ya hes 6-10. but kobes a great shooting guard rebounder. pound for pound theyre both just as good at rebounding. )
Passing - Bird ( even. kobe was the main play maker for 5 titles. bird bird for 3)
Free Throws - Bird ( this is part of scoring lol.. which again.. kobe is superior )
Leadership - Bird ( how hard is it to lead the 80's stacked celtics. btw i doubt kobe would lose finals mvp to cedric maxwell )
Big game temperament - Bird ( temperament? kobes a child now? LOL. )
Clutchness - Bird ( kobe has the most game winners ever )
Defense - Bird ( kobe has like 3 times as many defensive 1st team awards )
intangibles - Bird ( i'm sure kobes just as tangible lol wtf? kobe is one of the most fundamentally sound all around talents in league history. what does he not do well? )






:roll:

btw i like how you left out


"ability to win titles without 5 other hall of famers carrying you - KOBE"

:cheers:

[KOBE143]

Bird was one of the best if not the best player in his era but lets be real here.. We're comparing an era-specific player to an all time great player.. Kobe is not just the better athlete but also the better individual player by far.. I give you slight edge to Bird as a team player and in rebounding because of the obvious reason and everything else goes to Kobe.. Kobe is by far the better offensive player and defender and last the dude is more handsome and its not even close.. Who would you rather fap while watching player, Bird or Kobe? Obviously its Kobe.. Only homo would fap watching Bird..

[Lebron23]

Give me Larry Bird. He's also a 3x NBA MVP. and a better all around player than Kobe. He's also the more efficient finals performer.

Not hating on Kobe. Bird is just the better basketball player.

[WayOfWade]

Kobe does not deserve two of his All-NBA Defense and All-NBA 1st teams. And we're forgetting the fact that Bird three-peated MVP's, and played in a league where this... http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X7r6vXeOfyQ was acceptable.

[Nash]

Is Bird the next target in Kobe fans quest to prove how good he is?

[The-Legend-24]

Pretty obvious, OP.

Kobe & Magic > Bird and Russell

Lakers > Celtics.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Pretty obvious, OP. Kobe & Magic > Bird and Russell Lakers > Celtics.
Russell>bird/magic>>Kobe

[Graviton]

Kobe does not deserve two of his All-NBA Defense and All-NBA 1st teams. And we're forgetting the fact that Bird three-peated MVP's, and played in a league where this... http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X7r6vXeOfyQ was acceptable.
2 skinny white boys trying to fight, one grabbed the other but thanks to the fact he had such little power the fall did 0 damage. The "tough 80s" right there. :roll:

[The-Legend-24]

And Kobe isn't the best Laker.
Dude has like every Lakers record imaginable except for rebounds, blocks and assists. There's nothing wrong with saying he's the GOAT Laker.

[thabisyo]

Russell>bird/magic>>Kobe

no.

Russell>bird>>>>>magic>=kobe

[Mr. Jabbar]

bird was a whitey who could move around and play ball, thats cute, we get it... now get real, kobe is the better player.

fun fact: kobe ranks #1 in the goat top 10 regarding good looks, bird ranks #9 just above KAJ :(

[Smoke117]

Kobe 15 Time All-Star vs Bird 12 Time All-Star

Kobe 4 All Star MVPs vs Bird 1 Allstar MVP.

Kobe 11 Time All-NBA 1st Team vs Bird 9 All NBA 1st Team

Kobe 9 All-Defensive 1st Team Vs Bird 0 All Defensive First Teams.

Kobe 31,617 career Points VS Bird 21,791pts

Kobe 5,640 Career Playoff points Vs Bird 3,897 Career playoff points.

Kobe Player of Month 17times vs Bird player of Month 7 times (Peak in league Impact) (Bird only 2 more MVP Awards due to media bias, which has been well documented).

Bird only better rebounder. Solely due to his 6-10 Power Forward height.


Kobe is a Better player than Bird. These are FACT. You Jabroni's just need to accept it and erase the nostalgia of your minds. View facts with no bias and let your basketball IQ seek the truth!

Yeah media bias got him three league MVP's in a row...something that has never been accomplished since...keep trying, son.

[WayOfWade]

fun fact: kobe ranks #1 in the goat top 10 regarding good looks, bird ranks #9 just above KAJ :(
As much as I hate to admit it, he's right. Kobe is the best looking guy in the top 10, and probably top 100 also.

[SpurrDurr]

I think that Bird is the better player but the fact that he's white has boosted so much his legacy.

Aslo being caucasian helped him land a job in Indiana :lol

[G-Funk]

Magic>Kobe>Bird>>>Pierce

[JtotheIzzo]

:roll:

btw i like how you left out


"ability to win titles without 5 other hall of famers carrying you - KOBE"

:cheers:

Yep. cuz Kobe did real well without Gasol or O'Neal. those first round exits and playoff misses were CLUTCH!

[JtotheIzzo]

Who would you rather fap while watching player, Bird or Kobe? Obviously its Kobe.. Only homo would fap watching Bird..

:biggums:

OK, I will bite, only someone with a rape fetish would rather fap to Kobe, that is why he's so huge in Japan.

[KOBE143]

:biggums:

OK, I will bite, only someone with a rape fetish would rather fap to Kobe, that is why he's so huge in Japan.
Kobe never rape outside of the court.. He only rape players specially LeBron.. Remember the all star game.. Kobe raped him badly that made Pauk gone mad..

[thabisyo]

Kobe never rape outside of the court.. He only rape players specially LeBron.. Remember the all star game.. Kobe raped him badly that made Pauk gone mad..

That wasnt even a game :lol , it was an allstar game and it was two average blocks from behind like a bish

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Dude has like every Lakers record imaginable except for rebounds, blocks and assists. There's nothing wrong with saying he's the GOAT Laker.
If you're looking at who the best laker (not player to have played for the franchise) then magic is still ahead of him.
If you're looking at the best players who have at some stage in their career played for the Lakers then Kareem, magic, wilt and of course shaq are better than Kobe.
Some could even argue west, I however do not.

[Vienceslav]

How do you want to compare it, it's all make believe there is no high ground here, nobody will persuade the other side that they are right, you are wasting your time.

[The Rock]

EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD HAVING NERVOUS BREAKDOWN'S BECAUSE ITS HARD TO ACCEPT THAT THE FACTS PROVE KOBE>>BIRD. :oldlol:

SO FACTS DON'T COUNT ANYMORE SINCE KOBE WINS?:coleman:

[JtotheIzzo]

Lets take a look at Kobe's production when he won his rings compared to Bird's.

Kobe
'00 playoffs: 21-5-4 on 44%
'01 playoffs: 29-7-6 on 46%
'02 playoffs: 27-6-5 on 43%
'09 playoffs: 30-6-5 on 45%
'10 playoffs: 29-6-6 on 43%

Bird
'81 playoffs: 22-14-6 on 47%
'84 playoffs: 28-11-6 on 52%
'86 playoffs: 26-9-8 on 51%

Finals runs, but ended in a loss - still an accomplishment to get there.

Kobe
'04 playoffs: 25-5-6 on 41%
'08 playoffs: 30-6-6 on 47%

Bird
'85 playoffs: 26-9-6 on 46%
'87 playoffs: 27-10-7 on 47%

F*ck off with this 'ts' BS, I edited your tripe with shooting percentage.

Now take a look.

SMFH at the deception Kobestans will use to push their flawed agenda.

Bird's shooting >>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe's
Kobe's best ppg only 2 higher than Bird (30 vs 28)
Bird's best rebounding DOUBLE Kobe's best (14 vs 7)
Bird's best assist 2 higher than Kobe's best (8 vs 6)

So looking at peaks, Kobe basically chucks his way to a slightly higher ppg (6% more), while Bird shoots markedly better, has 100% better rebounding number and 25% better assist numbers.

Nice analysis you biased piece of shit.

[AlphaWolf24]

Give me Larry Bird. He's also a 3x NBA MVP. and a better all around player than Kobe. He's also the more efficient finals performer.

Not hating on Kobe. Bird is just the better basketball player.


- Bird never made teh all defensive team...you know defense right?....

probably the fundamentally most important part of Basketball..

- Bird a better Finals performer then Kobe.....hahhh...hahhhh...hahhh....

bird sucked azz in the finals...go away kid.

[AlphaWolf24]

F*ck off with this 'ts' BS, I edited your tripe with shooting percentage.

Now take a look.

SMFH at the deception Kobestans will use to push their flawed agenda.

Bird's shooting >>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe's
Kobe's best ppg only 2 higher than Bird (30 vs 28)
Bird's best rebounding DOUBLE Kobe's best (14 vs 7)
Bird's best assist 2 higher than Kobe's best (8 vs 6)

So looking at peaks, Kobe basically chucks his way to a slightly higher ppg (6% more), while Bird shoots markedly better, has 100% better rebounding number and 25% better assist numbers.

Nice analysis you biased piece of shit.


OH NO YOU DIDN'T!.....you biased peice of **** herder!

Kobe's peak absolutley blows Birds Peak of the peak outta the water!!

35PPG....:banana: Bird never sniffed that!

- Kobe's offensive game prime peak...peaks out way over BIRD!...

- Bird made some great passes......so did Kobe....but Kobe could score 6 more baskets then Bird... and shut down the other teams best player...

Bird was so limited on defense he needed 2 other guys to gaurd Magic and Cooper...KOBE BEAT Michael COOPER before he was in the NBA at 17 years old

- Bird's real career lasted about 8 1/2 years:lol .....( Half of Kobes peak):roll:


:pimp:



Kobe>Bird and it aint even close.......biased pieces of excrement.

[Deuce Bigalow]

F*ck off with this 'ts' BS, I edited your tripe with shooting percentage.

Now take a look.

SMFH at the deception Kobestans will use to push their flawed agenda.

Bird's shooting >>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe's
Kobe's best ppg only 2 higher than Bird (30 vs 28)
Bird's best rebounding DOUBLE Kobe's best (14 vs 7)
Bird's best assist 2 higher than Kobe's best (8 vs 6)

So looking at peaks, Kobe basically chucks his way to a slightly higher ppg (6% more), while Bird shoots markedly better, has 100% better rebounding number and 25% better assist numbers.

Nice analysis you biased piece of shit.
SMH at this biased shit. AT LEAST post the CORRECT stats :facepalm

Kobe shot 47% in '01 playoffs, 48% in the '08, 46% in both the '09 and '10 playoffs. 35% from 3 in '09 and 37% from 3 in '10.

Highest AST% in a playoff run that ended in a Finals appearance/Title between Kobe and Bird

Bird 86- 28.1%
Kobe 08- 26.9%
Kobe 09- 26%
Kobe 10- 26%
Kobe 04- 25.6%
Kobe 01- 25.4%

Bird has the highest one, but Kobe has the next highest 5.

[rhythmic]

SMH at this biased shit. AT LEAST post the CORRECT stats :facepalm

Kobe shot 47% in '01 playoffs, 48% in the '08, 46% in both the '09 and '10 playoffs. 35% from 3 in '09 and 37% from 3 in '10.

Highest AST% in a playoff run that ended in a Finals appearance/Title between Kobe and Bird

Bird 86- 28.1%
Kobe 08- 26.9%
Kobe 09- 26%
Kobe 10- 26%
Kobe 04- 25.6%
Kobe 01- 25.4%

Bird has the highest one, but Kobe has the next highest 5.

You guys forgot one very important, if not the most important factor.
The fact that the league was completely different when Bird played against when Kobe played. The pace, overall offensive efficiency was A LOT higher during Bird's era. Therefore, comparing their respective numbers doesn't give an accurate depiction of their respective performances.

[ZaaaaaH]

Give me Larry Bird. He's also a 3x NBA MVP. and a better all around player than Kobe. He's also the more efficient finals performer.

Not hating on Kobe. Bird is just the better basketball player.

But LeBron is better then Bird right?

[ZaaaaaH]

EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD HAVING NERVOUS BREAKDOWN'S BECAUSE ITS HARD TO ACCEPT THAT THE FACTS PROVE KOBE>>BIRD. :oldlol:

SO FACTS DON'T COUNT ANYMORE SINCE KOBE WINS?:coleman:


No doubt a lot of Kobe Haters dont like to admit how great Kobe is but my friend Facts are important but you gotta understand the Impact as well which you cant get from a piece of paper full of numbers.

[pauk]

Kobe 2 titles as the man vs Bird 3 titles as the man

Kobe 1 MVP vs Bird 3 Time MVP

[MastaKilla]

Kobe 2 titles as the man vs Bird 3 titles as the man

Kobe 1 MVP vs Bird 3 Time MVP

Bird has 2 FMVP same as Kobe.

Bird has 3 rings. Kobe has 5

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Bird has 2 FMVP same as Kobe. Bird has 3 rings. Kobe has 5
Bird has 3 mvps, compared to Kobe's lonely 1

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Kobe stans love using that Hitler propaganda method to push their opinions down everyones throats. Tell a lie, make it big and simple and just keep repeating it. I'm just happy most people don't have their heads up their asses and don't buy into your biased opinions.

[TheBigVeto]

Bird >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> White Mamba >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe.

[Lakers2877]

Bird has 3 mvps, compared to Kobe's lonely 1
Steve Nash has 2 Mvps

Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem have 1


Nash > Kobe, Shaq and Hakeem

[Lakers2877]

Bird at his absolute peak > Kobe IMO. Slightly

When it comes to sustained excellence and career r

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Steve Nash has 2 Mvps Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem have 1 Nash > Kobe, Shaq and Hakeem
That's why you look at it in conjunction with other things such as rings, contributions to championships, fmvps etc.
I was just joining in on the numbers game

[Lakers2877]

That's why you look at it in conjunction with other things such as rings, contributions to championships, fmvps etc.
I was just joining in on the numbers game
Any stat any awards basically anything can be twisted and turned to make one player look better or worse

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Any stat any awards basically anything can be twisted and turned to make one player look better or worse
I agree, at the end of the day there's a level of subjectivity which can determine what point someone will try and push as well as whatever supports their opinion whether it be stats, rings, records, etc.

[The Rock]

TO THE HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF LURKERS LOOKING THROUGH THIS THREAD. WE HAVE THE SIDE OF PEOPLE WHO KNOWS KOBE IS BETTER THAN BIRD. AND THE SIDE WHO THINKS BIRD WAS BETTER. THIS MEANS THE 2 SIDES HAVE AN OPINION EACH.

SINCE OPINION WON'T END THE SPECULATION, YOU THEN BRING THE FACTS TO FIND THE TRUTH. AS I POSTED IN THE OP THE FACTS WERE FOUND TO BE OVERWHELMINGLY IN KOBE BRYANT'S FAVOR. HE COMPLETELY SMASHES BIRD IN EVERY ACCOMPLISHMENT. BIRD WAS ONLY LEFT WITH ONE VICTORY IN HIS TALLY, JUST 2 MORE LEAGUE MVPS. BUT PEOPLE, STEVE NASH HAS 2 MVPS TO SHAQS 1, SO:oldlol:

I KNOW THAT DEEP DOWN YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW KOBE WINS THIS DEBATE, BUT THERE'S 2 THINGS KEEPING YOU FROM ACCEPTING THE FACTS!

1. NOSTALGIA. SEE WE ALL HAVE THIS AUTOMATIC FEELING OF EMOTION FOR EVERYTHING OLD. I UNDERSTAND, I STILL ACT LIKE SCI-FI TYPE MOVIES IN THE 80'S ARE BETTER GRAPHICALLY THAN THE NEW SCI-FI GOUR MOVIES. BUT, THEY AREN'T. JUST LIKE BIRD WAS NEVER AS GOOD AS KOBE. KOBE'S AN ALL-IME GREAT, IT'S OK FOR YOU TO ACCEPT HIS RIGHTFULL PLACE IN THE TOP 5. EVEN THE GUY YOU ARE BACKING HAS ALREADY SAID KOBE IS TOP 5. :oldlol: JUST ACCEPT THE FACTS.

2. OR YOUR'RE A HATER. A HATER WON'T ACCEPT THESE FACTS. THEY ARE FUELD BY BLIND HATE. THEIR OPINIONS DON'T MATTER. KOBE COULD SAVE A BABY FROM A BURNING HOUSE AND THEY WOULD HATE IT. THEY'D PROBABLY SAY JORDAN WOULD HAVE SAVED THE BABY BEFORE THE HOUSE CAUGHT ON FIRE.:facepalm YES, THE HATE IS THAT STRONG. THEY DISCREDIT BRYANT ON EVERYTHING, IT IS THEIR JOB.

AGAIN, THE FACTS HAS WON. THE EVIDENCE IS ON KOBE'S SIDE. WORKING OFF YOUR EMOTIONS AND NOSTALGIA IS NOT THE HIGH IQ WAY.

[RRR3]

Kobe Bryant is the greatest player in NBA history and it's not even remotely close.


Jordan? Weak era, carried by Phil Jackson, couldn't win w/o Pippen.

Russell? LOL most stacked team ever, Red Auerbach, super weak era, Ben Wallace in today's league

Wilt? Statpadded in weak era, basically JaVale McGee

Bird? Slow white guy, Kyle Korver at best if he played today.

Magic? Carried by Kareem and Worthy.

Duncan? Not flashy enough, never won back-to-back rings.

Kareem? Best years in weak era, stacked teams.

Hakeem? Only won once MJ retired.

Shaq? Couldn't win without elite SGs carrying him.

LeBron? Statpadder, couldn't win till Kobe got old.

[G-Funk]

at a horrible defender being better than a primed Kobe

[The-Legend-24]

When you really look at it, Kobe's resume is insane, I think only Kareem and Jordan have a better resume. :applause:

[RRR3]

When you really look at it, Kobe's resume is insane, I think only Kareem and Jordan have a better resume. :applause:
Weak era. Kobe had to compete against Legends in pretty much every playoff series he ever played in. Obviously much better than those guys. Jordan would be maybe about on the level of DeMar DeRozan today. Kareem would be a slightly better Robert Sacre.

[The Rock]

When you really look at it, Kobe's resume is insane, I think only Kareem and Jordan have a better resume. :applause:

THIS IS TRUTH. ALL-TIME TOP 5 IS

1. JORDAN
2. KAREEM
3. KOBE
4. WILT
5. RUSSEL

(WILT AND KOBE CAN BE INTERCHANGEABLE,)

[The Rock]

Weak era. Kobe had to compete against Legends in pretty much every playoff series he ever played in. Obviously much better than those guys. Jordan would be maybe about on the level of DeMar DeRozan today. Kareem would be a slightly better Robert Sacre.

YOUR SARCASTIC TROLLING DOESN'T CHANGE THE THREADS FACTS. JORDAN'S FACTS SHOW WHAT HE DID WASN'T WEAK. HE IS THE GREATEST.

[G-Funk]

- Bird never made teh all defensive team...you know defense right?....

probably the fundamentally most important part of Basketball..

- Bird a better Finals performer then Kobe.....hahhh...hahhhh...hahhh....

bird sucked azz in the finals...go away kid.


Bird got destroyed on an island by players. Dominique Wilkins comes immediately to mind (and da duel). Bird was an ok team defender though. No ifs ands or buts about it. He always knew who he was playing. He was a terrible defender most of the time, slow as hell. But he was tough as nails. He was very fortunate to have McHale with his freakishly long arms and the chief behind him. He played decent team defense because his individual D is pretty nonexistent. He's just a very smart player.

[Lakers2877]

Why is RRR3 throwing a fit? Did she forget to take her midol?

Pretty random meltdown

[RRR3]

I'm giving you guys what you want, excuse me for being nice :rolleyes:

[Round Mound]

Larry Bird Was The Best Team Defender of the 80s and Was Slightly Above Average Man To Man. Only Things Kobe Is a Better at is Driving to the Basket and Chucking.

Larry Bird Was a Better Shooter: FTs, Long Range, Mid Range, Far Range etc
Larry Bird Was a Better Post Player: Could Post Up PFs and Score on Them (see Horace Grant Guarding Old Bird)
Larry Bird Was a Better Passer: Way Better
Larry Bird Was a Better Rebounder: Way Better.
Larry Bird Was a Better Leader: He Won 3 Titles in the Golden Age of the NBA
Larry Bird Was Clutcher: Not Just Scoring Wise But Steals, Rebounds and Defensive Plays at Last Minutes of the Game

Larry Bird > Kobe Chucker and Carried By 3 Rings By The Greatest Offensive Center Ever

[The Rock]

Larry Bird Was The Best Team Defender of the 80s and Was Slightly Above Average Man To Man. Only Things Kobe Is a Better at is Driving to the Basket and Chucking.

Larry Bird Was a Better Shooter: FTs, Long Range, Mid Range, Far Range etc
Larry Bird Was a Better Post Player: Could Post Up PFs and Score on Them (see Horace Grant Guarding Old Bird)
Larry Bird Was a Better Passer: Way Better
Larry Bird Was a Better Rebounder: Way Better.
Larry Bird Was a Better Leader: He Won 3 Titles in the Golden Age of the NBA
Larry Bird Was Clutcher: Not Just Scoring Wise But Steals, Rebounds and Defensive Plays at Last Minutes of the Game

Larry Bird > Kobe Chucker and Carried By 3 Rings By The Greatest Offensive Center Ever

SEE PEOPLE, ALL OPINIONATED CRAP. WE ALL KNOW BIRD WAS IN NO SHAPE OR EVEN FORM A BETTER OFFENSIVE SCORER THAN KOBE. BIRD CAN ONLY WET DREAM OF OBTAINING EVEN HALF THE AMOUNT OF 50PT GAMES KOBE HAS. HE IS BEHIND BRYANT IN PPG, PLAYOFF POINTS, CAREER POINTS, ALL NBA FIRST TEAMS.

BIRD WAS NEVER A "THE BEST HELP DEFENDER":roll: @ THE CRAP. ONLY 2 ALLDEFENSIVE TEAMS, BOTH 2ND TEAM. PIPPEN, JORDAN, HAKEEM, BRYANT, DUNCAN AND SO ON ALL WERE GREAT DEFENDERS, WHICH IS WHY THEY ALL HAVE OVER A HANDFUL OF FIRST TEAM ALL DEFENSIVE TEAMS. MCHALE AND PARRISH WERE THE DEFENSIVE ANCHORS OF CELTICS.

TAKE YOUR NON FACTS CANDY ASS OUT THIS THREAD.

[talamo]

SEE PEOPLE, ALL OPINIONATED CRAP. WE ALL KNOW BIRD WAS IN NO SHAPE OR EVEN FORM A BETTER OFFENSIVE SCORER THAN KOBE. BIRD CAN ONLY WET DREAM OF OBTAINING EVEN HALF THE AMOUNT OF 50PT GAMES KOBE HAS. HE IS BEHIND BRYANT IN PPG, PLAYOFF POINTS, CAREER POINTS, ALL NBA FIRST TEAMS.

BIRD WAS NEVER A "THE BEST HELP DEFENDER":roll: @ THE CRAP. ONLY 2 ALLDEFENSIVE TEAMS, BOTH 2ND TEAM. PIPPEN, JORDAN, HAKEEM, BRYANT, DUNCAN AND SO ON ALL WERE GREAT DEFENDERS, WHICH IS WHY THEY ALL HAVE OVER A HANDFUL OF FIRST TEAM ALL DEFENSIVE TEAMS. MCHALE AND PARRISH WERE THE DEFENSIVE ANCHORS OF CELTICS.

TAKE YOUR NON FACTS CANDY ASS OUT THIS THREAD.

im by no means an expert on ranking players n shid but if u have all these "stats/facts" backing u up then why are these other guys actin like what ur saying is absurd? im so confused... :biggums:
never seen bird play so i cant join the debate

[The Rock]

im by no means an expert on ranking players n shid but if u have all these "stats/facts" backing u up then why are these other guys actin like what ur saying is absurd? im so confused... :biggums:
never seen bird play so i cant join the debate

1. NOSTALGIA. EVERYONE LIKES EVERYTHING OLD. SOME THINGS YOU CAN'T LET GO.

2. KOBE IS THE MOST HATED PLAYER ON THIS FORUM.

ADD THOSE 2 THINGS TOGETHER! AND WHAT YOU GET IS UPSET PEOPLE IN YOUR THREAD.

[Round Mound]

SEE PEOPLE, ALL OPINIONATED CRAP. WE ALL KNOW BIRD WAS IN NO SHAPE OR EVEN FORM A BETTER OFFENSIVE SCORER THAN KOBE. BIRD CAN ONLY WET DREAM OF OBTAINING EVEN HALF THE AMOUNT OF 50PT GAMES KOBE HAS. HE IS BEHIND BRYANT IN PPG, PLAYOFF POINTS, CAREER POINTS, ALL NBA FIRST TEAMS.

BIRD WAS NEVER A "THE BEST HELP DEFENDER":roll: @ THE CRAP. ONLY 2 ALLDEFENSIVE TEAMS, BOTH 2ND TEAM. PIPPEN, JORDAN, HAKEEM, BRYANT, DUNCAN AND SO ON ALL WERE GREAT DEFENDERS, WHICH IS WHY THEY ALL HAVE OVER A HANDFUL OF FIRST TEAM ALL DEFENSIVE TEAMS. MCHALE AND PARRISH WERE THE DEFENSIVE ANCHORS OF CELTICS.

TAKE YOUR NON FACTS CANDY ASS OUT THIS THREAD.

[B]20 Year Old Speaking Bullshit :facepalm :no: :rolleyes: .

Larry Bird Was a Way Better All Around Player Than Kobe Ever Was.

Robert Parish and Kevin McHale Where The Defensive Anchors? Then Explain To Me Why Larry Bird Had The Highest Defensive Rating and Defensive Win Share in those Celtic Teams?

Larry Bird Was The Best Team Defender of the 80s!

Kobe Could Only Dream of Being as Clutch, The Rebounder, The Passer and The Leader Bird Was.

Today

[The Rock]

Kobe 15 Time All-Star vs Bird 12 Time All-Star

Kobe 4 All Star MVPs vs Bird 1 Allstar MVP.

Kobe 11 Time All-NBA 1st Team vs Bird 9 All NBA 1st Team

Kobe 9 All-Defensive 1st Team Vs Bird 0 All Defensive First Teams.

Kobe 31,617 career Points VS Bird 21,791pts

Kobe 5,640 Career Playoff points Vs Bird 3,897 Career playoff points.

Kobe Player of Month 17times vs Bird player of Month 7 times (Peak in league Impact) (Bird only 2 more MVP Awards due to media bias, which has been well documented).

Bird only better rebounder. Solely due to his 6-10 Power Forward height.


Kobe is a Better player than Bird. These are FACT. You Jabroni's just need to accept it and erase the nostalgia of your minds. View facts with no bias and let your basketball IQ seek the truth!

FACTS!

[The-Legend-24]

bird had 3 straight MVP's kobe had 1
bird > kobe
This is the only thing he has over Kobe. :roll: :roll:

[The Rock]

TO THE HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF LURKERS LOOKING THROUGH THIS THREAD. WE HAVE THE SIDE OF PEOPLE WHO KNOWS KOBE IS BETTER THAN BIRD. AND THE SIDE WHO THINKS BIRD WAS BETTER. THIS MEANS THE 2 SIDES HAVE AN OPINION EACH.

SINCE OPINION WON'T END THE SPECULATION, YOU THEN BRING THE FACTS TO FIND THE TRUTH. AS I POSTED IN THE OP THE FACTS WERE FOUND TO BE OVERWHELMINGLY IN KOBE BRYANT'S FAVOR. HE COMPLETELY SMASHES BIRD IN EVERY ACCOMPLISHMENT. BIRD WAS ONLY LEFT WITH ONE VICTORY IN HIS TALLY, JUST 2 MORE LEAGUE MVPS. BUT PEOPLE, STEVE NASH HAS 2 MVPS TO SHAQS 1, SO:oldlol:

I KNOW THAT DEEP DOWN YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW KOBE WINS THIS DEBATE, BUT THERE'S 2 THINGS KEEPING YOU FROM ACCEPTING THE FACTS!

1. NOSTALGIA. SEE WE ALL HAVE THIS AUTOMATIC FEELING OF EMOTION FOR EVERYTHING OLD. I UNDERSTAND, I STILL ACT LIKE SCI-FI TYPE MOVIES IN THE 80'S ARE BETTER GRAPHICALLY THAN THE NEW SCI-FI GOUR MOVIES. BUT, THEY AREN'T. JUST LIKE BIRD WAS NEVER AS GOOD AS KOBE. KOBE'S AN ALL-IME GREAT, IT'S OK FOR YOU TO ACCEPT HIS RIGHTFULL PLACE IN THE TOP 5. EVEN THE GUY YOU ARE BACKING HAS ALREADY SAID KOBE IS TOP 5. :oldlol: JUST ACCEPT THE FACTS.

2. OR YOUR'RE A HATER. A HATER WON'T ACCEPT THESE FACTS. THEY ARE FUELD BY BLIND HATE. THEIR OPINIONS DON'T MATTER. KOBE COULD SAVE A BABY FROM A BURNING HOUSE AND THEY WOULD HATE IT. THEY'D PROBABLY SAY JORDAN WOULD HAVE SAVED THE BABY BEFORE THE HOUSE CAUGHT ON FIRE.:facepalm YES, THE HATE IS THAT STRONG. THEY DISCREDIT BRYANT ON EVERYTHING, IT IS THEIR JOB.

AGAIN, THE FACTS HAS WON. THE EVIDENCE IS ON KOBE'S SIDE. WORKING OFF YOUR EMOTIONS AND NOSTALGIA IS NOT THE HIGH IQ WAY.

FACTS

[The Rock]

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]20 Year Old Speaking Bullshit :facepalm :no: :rolleyes: .

Larry Bird Was a Way Better All Around Player Than Kobe Ever. Robert Parish and Kevin McHale Where The Defensive Anchors? Then Explain To Me Why Larry Bird Had The Highest Defensive Rating and Defensive Win Share in those Celtic Teams?

Larry Bird Was The Best Team Defender of the 80s!

Kobe Could Only Dream of Being as Clutch, The Rebounder, The Passer and The Leader Bird Was.

Today

[The Rock]

This is the only thing he has over Kobe. :roll: :roll:

THIS.:oldlol:

3-4 POSTERS POSTED THAT ONE THING, LEAGUE MVPS. AS IF THAT TRUMPS EVERYTHING ELSE BRYANT DEMOLISHES BIRD IN:roll:

THE OTHER POSTERS AGAINST THE FACTS COME IN WITH WEAK ONE LINERS AND JOKES LIKE THAT DEFEATS THE FACTS:roll:

[chazzy]

Larry Bird Was The Best Team Defender of the 80s!
:wtf:

[Round Mound]

THIS POST? OPINIONS, NON FACTS. WRONG OPINIONS AT THAT. WEAK ATTEMPT WITH DEFENSIVE WIN SHARES:roll:

Good Attempt in Trying to Descrdit Advanced Stats...Which Point to Bird as a Great Team Defender.

Bird Was Better At Everything Than Kobe But Driving to the Basket and Ballhandling (he is a Guard so..). Bird is a Better Shooter, Post Player, Rebounder, Passer, Team Defender, Leader and Clutcher.

[The Rock]

Good Attempt in Trying to Descrdit Avanced Stats...Which Point to Bird as a Great Team Defender.

Bird Was Better At Everything Than Kobe But Driving to the Basket and Ballhandling (he is a Guard so..). Bird is a Better Shooter, Post Player, Rebounder, Passer, Team Defender, Leader and Clutcher.

MORE WRONG OPINIONS, AND NO FACTS. METRIC SYSTEM DEFENSIVE WIN SHARES :roll:

"BIRD WAS BEST HELP DEFENDER IN THE 80'S" MORE DUMB OPINIONS:roll: HAVE YOU HEARD OF SIDNEY MONCRIEF? MARK EATON? MICHAEL COOPER? YOU ARE DUMB JUST LIKE REAL LIFE BARKLEY:roll:

YOU STILL BRING NO FACTS.

[Jameerthefear]

Bird 3 MVPs >>> Kobe 1 MVP

[KG215]

I'm not one to talk, but seriously, why are people responding to this guy? It's a 3 year old account and he's made almost all 68 of his posts in the last 2 days. On top of that he's posting in all caps. I'm no expert, but that's about as obvious as a troll can be.

[The Rock]

I'm not one to talk, but seriously, why are people responding to this guy? It's a 3 year old account and he's made almost all 68 of his posts in the last 2 days. On top of that he's posting in all caps. I'm no expert, but that's about as obvious as a troll can be.

DON'T RESPOND TO ME. RESPOND TO THE FACTS IN THE OP.

[Round Mound]

MORE WRONG OPINIONS, AND NO FACTS. METRIC SYSTEM DEFENSIVE WIN SHARES :roll:

"BIRD WAS BEST HELP DEFENDER IN THE 80'S" MORE DUMB OPINIONS:roll: HAVE YOU HEARD OF SIDNEY MONCRIEF? MARK EATON? MICHAEL COOPER? YOU ARE DUMB JUST LIKE REAL LIFE BARKLEY:roll:

YOU STILL BRING NO FACTS.

Team Defender. Suggest You Watch This:

Larry Bird - Defensive Impact

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4B6TFAe8YQ

[The Rock]

Team Defender. Suggest You Watch This:

Larry Bird - Defensive Impact

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4B6TFAe8YQ

SO THESE CHERRY PICKED HIGHLIGHTS SUPPOSE TO SHOW ME BIRD WAS THE BEST DEFENDER IN THE 80'S? EVEN BETTER THAN MICHAEL COOPER AND MARK EATON? PLEASE JABRONI:roll:

DWS :roll: :roll:

[The Rock]

Bird 3 MVPs >>> Kobe 1 MVP

NASH 2MVPS>>>SHAQ 1:roll: :roll:

[Uncle Drew]

True.

But... Pierce > Bird >>>> KobeLol, what the ****. Pierce > Bird, are you high?

[The Rock]

Lol, what the ****. Pierce > Bird, are you high?

YES HE IS. KOBE>>BIRD>>>>>>>PIERCE.

[colts19]

To the OP, your the same type of person who would dismiss Wilt. You would find all kinds of non fact things to dismiss Wilt. Like, pace, all short white guys and didn't play against great players. Look at the record book. Those are facts but in that arguement you would dismiss them.

This may not be a fact but the truth is Larry was the leader of his team and helped make Parrish, Mchale and Johnson hall of fame type players. Who the hell has Kobe made better. Name one person.

[The Rock]

To the OP, your the same type of person who would dismiss Wilt. You would find all kinds of non fact things to dismiss Wilt. Like, pace, all short white guys and didn't play against great players. Look at the record book. Those are facts but in that arguement you would dismiss them.

This may not be a fact but the truth is Larry was the leader of his team and helped make Parrish, Mchale and Johnson hall of fame type players. Who the hell has Kobe made better. Name one person.

:roll: :roll:

LOOK ON THE LAST PAGE JABRONI. WILT IS IN MY TOP 4 ALL-TIME BASED ON THE FACTS.

NEVER DENIED BIRD WAS A GOOD LEADER. NEVER DENIED BIRD PLAYED WITH HOF PLAYERS MCHALE AND PARRISH. YOUR POST IS A OPINION ON HOW YOU VIEW. YOU MADE NO FACTS TO PROVE ME WRONG IN THE OP, SO YOU LOSE THERE. YOU'RE ONLY TELLING ME HOW GOOD BIRD IS, WHICH I DON'T DENY. BUT NOTHING IN YOUR POST STANDS UP TO THE FACTS AND NBA HISTORY ACCOMPLISHMENTS I POSTED IN THE OP. KOBE DEMOLISHES BIRD.

NAME 1 PLAYER KOBE MADE BETTER? IS THIS YOUR CLAIM THAT DETHRONES THE FACTS:roll:

AND BECAUSE I'M A NICE GUY AND HAD MY COFFEE THIS MORNING, I'LL ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ON KOBE. HE MADE GASOL BETTER. HIS NUMBERS WERE UP. HE LEARNED HOW TO BE A CHAMP FROM KOBE. GASOL 0-20 IN THE PLAYOFFS WITH KOBE. FACTS.

[colts19]

I would like to add that of players who have played 700 games or more Larry Bird has the highest winning percentage of all time at .736 That right higher than kobe .663. Also for those who say Larry had stacked teams explain how he took a 29 win team to 61 wins in one season with basically the same roster. How do those facts figure into your Kobe Love Fest.

[longtime lurker]

This Rock gimmick sucks. Didn't once see him say "IT DOES'NT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!"

[The Rock]

I would like to add that of players who have played 700 games or more Larry Bird has the highest winning percentage of all time at .736 That right higher than kobe .663. Also for those who say Larry had stacked teams explain how he took a 29 win team to 61 wins in one season with basically the same roster. How do those facts figure into your Kobe Love Fest.

NICE. BUT KOBE STILL HAS

MORE CAREER POINTS
MORE PPG
MORE PLAYOFF POINTS
MORE PLAYOFF PPG
MORE ALL NBA 1ST TEAMS
MORE ALL DEFENSIVE 1ST TEAMS
MORE ALL-STAR GAMES
MORE ALL STAR MVPS
MORE TITLES
MORE 40, 50, AND 60PT GAMES

EVEN BOTH 2 FINALS MVPS

BIRD HAS

MORE REBOUNDS
MORE MVPS (NASH MORE MVPS THAN SHAQ)
MORE ASSIST

:roll: :roll:

[The Rock]

This Rock gimmick sucks. Didn't once see him say "IT DOES'NT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!"

GIVE IT TIME MY MAN.

[CJ Mustard]

The Finals MVP argument is so stupid. Bird was the best player on his team in 3 championship runs, he led his team to 3 titles. Kobe was a sidekick for 3 of his titles, and had one of the worst Finals MVP performances in 2010. He was basically given the award by default because nobody had a particularly great series. Not to mention his only great game in that series took place in a loss.

[colts19]

NICE. BUT KOBE STILL HAS

MORE CAREER POINTS
MORE PPG
MORE PLAYOFF POINTS
MORE PLAYOFF PPG
MORE ALL NBA 1ST TEAMS
MORE ALL DEFENSIVE 1ST TEAMS
MORE ALL-STAR GAMES
MORE ALL STAR MVPS
MORE TITLES
MORE 40, 50, AND 60PT GAMES

EVEN BOTH 2 FINALS MVPS

BIRD HAS

MORE REBOUNDS
MORE MVPS (NASH MORE MVPS THAN SHAQ)
MORE ASSIST

:roll: :roll:

Bird won more titles as the man. He also had the highest winning percentage of all time. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.

[longtime lurker]

Bird won more titles as the man. He also had the highest winning percentage of all time. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.

This is such bullshit. People act like Kobe was a scrub during the first 3 peat. He was putting up first option numbers and playing better than a lot of finals MVP's.

[The Rock]

Bird won more titles as the man. He also had the highest winning percentage of all time. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.

PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.

KOBE 5 TITLES 2FINALS MVPS
BIRD 3 TITLES 2 FINALS MVPS

:coleman: DO YOU UNDERSTAND FACTS AND OPINIONS?

[The Rock]

TO THE HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF LURKERS LOOKING THROUGH THIS THREAD. WE HAVE THE SIDE OF PEOPLE WHO KNOWS KOBE IS BETTER THAN BIRD. AND THE SIDE WHO THINKS BIRD WAS BETTER. THIS MEANS THE 2 SIDES HAVE AN OPINION EACH.

SINCE OPINION WON'T END THE SPECULATION, YOU THEN BRING THE FACTS TO FIND THE TRUTH. AS I POSTED IN THE OP THE FACTS WERE FOUND TO BE OVERWHELMINGLY IN KOBE BRYANT'S FAVOR. HE COMPLETELY SMASHES BIRD IN EVERY ACCOMPLISHMENT. BIRD WAS ONLY LEFT WITH ONE VICTORY IN HIS TALLY, JUST 2 MORE LEAGUE MVPS. BUT PEOPLE, STEVE NASH HAS 2 MVPS TO SHAQS 1, SO:oldlol:

I KNOW THAT DEEP DOWN YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW KOBE WINS THIS DEBATE, BUT THERE'S 2 THINGS KEEPING YOU FROM ACCEPTING THE FACTS!

1. NOSTALGIA. SEE WE ALL HAVE THIS AUTOMATIC FEELING OF EMOTION FOR EVERYTHING OLD. I UNDERSTAND, I STILL ACT LIKE SCI-FI TYPE MOVIES IN THE 80'S ARE BETTER GRAPHICALLY THAN THE NEW SCI-FI GOUR MOVIES. BUT, THEY AREN'T. JUST LIKE BIRD WAS NEVER AS GOOD AS KOBE. KOBE'S AN ALL-IME GREAT, IT'S OK FOR YOU TO ACCEPT HIS RIGHTFULL PLACE IN THE TOP 5. EVEN THE GUY YOU ARE BACKING HAS ALREADY SAID KOBE IS TOP 5. :oldlol: JUST ACCEPT THE FACTS.

2. OR YOUR'RE A HATER. A HATER WON'T ACCEPT THESE FACTS. THEY ARE FUELD BY BLIND HATE. THEIR OPINIONS DON'T MATTER. KOBE COULD SAVE A BABY FROM A BURNING HOUSE AND THEY WOULD HATE IT. THEY'D PROBABLY SAY JORDAN WOULD HAVE SAVED THE BABY BEFORE THE HOUSE CAUGHT ON FIRE.:facepalm YES, THE HATE IS THAT STRONG. THEY DISCREDIT BRYANT ON EVERYTHING, IT IS THEIR JOB.

AGAIN, THE FACTS HAS WON. THE EVIDENCE IS ON KOBE'S SIDE. WORKING OFF YOUR EMOTIONS AND NOSTALGIA IS NOT THE HIGH IQ WAY.

NO ONE COULD EVEN CONTEST MY BACK UP OF MY OP. FACTS

[Jacks3]

Bird posted below league average efficiency in 9 of his 12 playoff runs.

:roll:

[Jacks3]

and had one of the worst Finals MVP performances in 2010.
lol @ this moron. 29/8/5/2/53% TS/28 PER against the best defense in the league is one of the worst ever? Are you retarded?

[MisterAmazing]

This Rock gimmick sucks. Didn't once see him say "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!"

+1

i have found this account humorous but he doesnt stay in character enough.

also, doesn't the forum change all caps posts to lower case? apparently dwayne has the star power to get away with it

[The Rock]

lol @ this moron. 29/8/5/2/53% TS/28 PER against the best defense in the league is one of the worst ever? Are you retarded?

I'M A FAN OF BRYANT, BUT MORE OF A FAN OF THE FACTS. SO KEEP IT CORRECT! KOBE 28.6PPG 8REB 4AST

BUT I AGREE, THE POSTER YOU QUOTED IS STUPID.

[Hoopz2332]

How can people compare Bird to Kobe when Bird isn't the best Celtic. Pierce is.

:coleman:

[TheBigVeto]

Bird >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe.

[TheMarkMadsen]

If you put Birds name beside Kobes accomplishments and put Kobes name by Birds accomplishments..

Nobody would pick Kobe..

[zoom17]

If you put Birds name beside Kobes accomplishments and put Kobes name by Birds accomplishments..

Nobody would pick Kobe..


Right because kobe won all his accomplishments by himself and was the number man for all his rings:roll: :roll: :roll: Bird>>>>>>>Kobe

[bdreason]

Bird - Better shooter, better passer, better rebounder.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Right because kobe won all his accomplishments by himself and was the number man for all his rings:roll: :roll: :roll: Bird>>>>>>>Kobe


Kobe Bryant:

3x NBA champion
2x FMVP
3x MVP
12x allstar
10x ALL NBA TEAM
3x All defensive team
21,791 points scored



Larry Bird:

5x NBA champion
2x FMVP
15x All Star
2x NBA scoring champion
1x MVP
15x ALL NBA team
12x All defensive team
31,617 career points

[Droid101]

Right because kobe won all his accomplishments by himself and was the number man for all his rings:roll: :roll: :roll: Bird>>>>>>>Kobe
Ignored.

Also, why isn't he banned? He hasn't posted a single non-Kobe-hate post in his entire time here. Why waste time with trolls?

[zoom17]

Kobe Bryant:

3x NBA champion
2x FMVP
3x MVP
12x allstar
10x ALL NBA TEAM
3x All defensive team
21,791 points scored



Larry Bird:

5x NBA champion
2x FMVP
15x All Star
2x NBA scoring champion
1x MVP
15x ALL NBA team
12x All defensive team
31,617 career points

What does swapping stats and accomplishments prove Bird will always be the better player regardless.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

What does swapping stats and accomplishments prove Bird will always be the better player regardless.

It proves that the people who think Bird is better aren't tied to pesky facts like stats and accomplishments. :oldlol:

[zoom17]

It proves that the people who think Bird is better aren't tied to pesky facts like stats and accomplishments. :oldlol:

Bird>Kobe

[andgar923]

Bird >>> Kobe

it is what it is

[branslowski]

Bird >>> Kobe

it is what it is

Nice opinion.

Mines is Kobe>>>Bird.

(Reads facts posted in this thread)

Yea, pretty much Kobe>>>Bird fact.

[SamuraiSWISH]

3x Champion (as team's best player)
3x MVPs
2x Finals MVPs

How on earth is that not instantly recognizable as being better than:

2x Champion (as team's best player)
3x Sidekick Champ
MVP
2x Finals MVP

[Yao Ming's Foot]

3x Champion (as team's best player)
3x MVPs
2x Finals MVPs

How on earth is that not instantly recognizable as being better than:

2x Champion (as team's best player)
3x Sidekick Champ
MVP
2x Finals MVP

When 3 "sidekick championships" >>> 1 "best player" championship (with 3-5 HOFers) and 2 MVPs :confusedshrug:

[branslowski]

3x Champion (as team's best player)
3x MVPs
2x Finals MVPs

How on earth is that not instantly recognizable as being better than:

2x Champion (as team's best player)
3x Sidekick Champ
MVP
2x Finals MVP

How is 3 Titles and 2 finals MVPs better than 5 titles and 2 Finals MVPs?

Then you ignore everything else like All NBA teams, All-star teams, the defensive factor, Kobe avg more ppg and total career points, also more Alltime playoff points. Exc...

Is this real life?:biggums:

Oh, u just wanna ignore the truth? Op posted legit facts.

[SamuraiSWISH]

How is 3 Titles and 2 finals MVPs better than 5 titles and 2 Finals MVPs?
Because Bird was the best player and team leader for 3. Kobe was for 2 definitely, and arguable co leader for one more. The 2000 and 2002 ring he was clear cut sidekick. So, 3x rings as leader as opposed to 2x rings as leader, and 3x MVPs to 1 MVP. Is this a serious question? I much rather have Bird's resume. Especially from a bragging rights perspective. If Kobe were to brag about his 5 rings to any other legend, and how many they won. They could retort with thank Shaq for those first three.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Because Bird was the best player and team leader for 3. Kobe was for 2 definitely, and arguable co leader for one more. The 2000 and 2002 ring he was clear cut sidekick. So, 3x rings as leader as opposed to 2x rings as leader, and 3x MVPs to 1 MVP. Is this a serious question? I much rather have Bird's resume. Especially from a bragging rights perspective. If Kobe were to brag about his 5 rings to any other legend, and how many they won. They could retort with thank Shaq for those first three.

Yeah people (ie not message board trolls) are always crapping on Kareem or Magic because some of their rings didn't come with a mythical best player tag on their chest. :rolleyes:

From a bragging rights perspective what is more impressive winning the title with 10 other all stars who are worse than you are winning a title with a player better than you and 9 other scrubs? The entire supporting cast matters not just one teammate.

Frankly none of Bird's titles match Kobe's with just Gasol. Bird never won anything without 3-5 HOF teammates by his side. :confusedshrug:

[tpols]

3x Champion (as team's best player)
3x MVPs
2x Finals MVPs

How on earth is that not instantly recognizable as being better than:

2x Champion (as team's best player)
3x Sidekick Champ
MVP
2x Finals MVP
Because youre hiding 29/7/6 and 27/6/6(with all first team defense) behind the term sidekick as if it isnt comparable to 21/14/6... :oldlol:


Impact is impact.

[branslowski]

Because Bird was the best player and team leader for 3. Kobe was for 2 definitely, and arguable co leader for one more. The 2000 and 2002 ring he was clear cut sidekick. So, 3x rings as leader as opposed to 2x rings as leader, and 3x MVPs to 1 MVP. Is this a serious question? I much rather have Bird's resume. Especially from a bragging rights perspective. If Kobe were to brag about his 5 rings to any other legend, and how many they won. They could retort with thank Shaq for those first three.

Both have 2 finals MVPs. Kobe more titles. Fact. You actin like Kobe was a non factor in winning those titles with Shaq, with exposes the lack of knowledge u have when it comes to Laker games.

You talk Resume with Bird only having the upper hand on Kobe in MVPs. (so does Nash).

Meanwhile you ignore:

Kobe owning Bird in:

Alltime points
Alltime ppg avg
Alltime playoff points
All NBA Teams
All Defensive Teams
Playoff games of 30 or more points
All Star selections and All Star MVPs.

Also factor in Kobe being a better scorer in many ways while also being a greater defender.

And the only thing u harpin on is titles as the man? When the seperation in that is only 1, even though Bird has the same amount of Finals MVPs as Kobe with less titles.

Even Bird himself has Kobe in top 5 All-time.

Go sit down somewhere homie.:oldlol:

[branslowski]

Lets take a look at Kobe's production when he won his rings compared to Bird's.

Kobe
'00 playoffs: 21-5-4 on 52%ts
'01 playoffs: 29-7-6 on 56%ts
'02 playoffs: 27-6-5 on 51%ts
'09 playoffs: 30-6-5 on 56%ts
'10 playoffs: 29-6-6 on 57%ts

Bird
'81 playoffs: 22-14-6 on 53%ts
'84 playoffs: 28-11-6 on 61%ts
'86 playoffs: 26-9-8 on 62%ts

Finals runs, but ended in a loss - still an accomplishment to get there.

Kobe
'04 playoffs: 25-5-6 on 51%ts
'08 playoffs: 30-6-6 on 58%ts

Bird
'85 playoffs: 26-9-6 on 54%ts
'87 playoffs: 27-10-7 on 58%ts

Duece pretty much nailed it. Sidekick these nutz.:oldlol:

[longtime lurker]

Because Bird was the best player and team leader for 3. Kobe was for 2 definitely, and arguable co leader for one more. The 2000 and 2002 ring he was clear cut sidekick. So, 3x rings as leader as opposed to 2x rings as leader, and 3x MVPs to 1 MVP. Is this a serious question? I much rather have Bird's resume. Especially from a bragging rights perspective. If Kobe were to brag about his 5 rings to any other legend, and how many they won. They could retort with thank Shaq for those first three.

Literally no legends actually talk like that. Real recognize real. You think if Bill Russell mentnions his 11 rings anyone would say "Well you played with 10 other hall of famers in a 6 team league :rant " these guys don't talk like nerds you find on messageboards.

[branslowski]

These facts must be the plague the way they avoidin them:oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

I'm still taking 3x MVPs with 3x Rings to 5x Rings and 1x MVP. The MVP represents individual dominance over the league. On an individual level, it makes one's resume much more appealing on the all-time standings. Rings are still for the most part a team achievement. LOL @ Kobe stans acting like he wasn't a clear cut sidekick in 2000. And an arguable one in 2002. Yes, he produced, as any 2nd option on a championship team does.

[branslowski]

I'm still taking 3x MVPs with 3x Rings to 5x Rings and 1x MVP. The MVP represents individual dominance over the league. On an individual level, it makes one's resume much more appealing on the all-time standings. Rings are still for the most part a team achievement. LOL @ Kobe stans acting like he wasn't a clear cut sidekick in 2000. And an arguable one in 2002. Yes, he produced, as any 2nd option on a championship team does.

Now you just being redundant, take the L and move on son, u have nothing else to offer. The overal resume is obviously in Kobe's favor. Kobe>>>>Bird.

[Jlamb47]

Kobe > Bird

Offensive skills is about the same
i would give Kobe the edge though due to his athletiscm
Defensive skills kobe is better off top

[zoom17]

Kobe > Bird

Offensive skills is about the same
i would give Kobe the edge though due to his athletiscm
Defensive skills kobe is better off top

:facepalm Good thing I am with the majority that think Bird> Kobe you kobe fans are funny.

[Smoke117]

Bird also has three MVP's in a row. He is the last player to do that.

[Hoopz2332]

Because Bird was the best player and team leader for 3. Kobe was for 2 definitely, and arguable co leader for one more. The 2000 and 2002 ring he was clear cut sidekick. So, 3x rings as leader as opposed to 2x rings as leader, and 3x MVPs to 1 MVP. Is this a serious question? I much rather have Bird's resume. Especially from a bragging rights perspective. If Kobe were to brag about his 5 rings to any other legend, and how many they won. They could retort with thank Shaq for those first three.


Kobe stans know that "percieved sidekicks" don't get and real bragging rights for titles when they don't win Finals MVP. They know it which is why they were quick to bring it up against lebron during the Heats title run in 2011 had the Heat won with Wade getting Finals MVP. Now they're trying to act like they don't know why KObe is never getting any real credit for his first three "sidekick titles"

[riseagainst]

Bird's the better team player, Kobe the better individual player. Simple as that.

[CavaliersFTW]

Bird's the better team player, Kobe the better individual player. Simple as that.
I actually think Bird, when healthy, was the better individual player not just the better team player though :confusedshrug:

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe stans know that "percieved sidekicks" don't get and real bragging rights for titles when they don't win Finals MVP. They know it which is why they were quick to bring it up against lebron during the Heats title run in 2011 had the Heat won with Wade getting Finals MVP. Now they're trying to act like they don't know why KObe is never getting any real credit for his first three "sidekick titles"


- Ok using your logic ... why does Bird get credit for 3 titles???

Cedric Maxwell won the FMVP in 1981 over Larry Bird...:hammerhead:




anyways...





- I watched Both players whole careers....this whole " team player" argument is stupid.

- Both players were great " team players" as proven through their winning/ watch them play.

- Bird was able to more often make better passes because much like Magic he had that special gift/height to see lanes inside the post. ( he was 6'10- 11")

- Kobe can also make timely passes ( seriously how many 6'6" SG's can pass like Kobe?) but obviously Kobe's perimeter game is focused on always putting pressure on the defense/trying to score

2 amazing players...prime Larry was unstoppable...but so was Kobe while being a premiere defender, and Kobe has sustained that dominance for over a decade....having 2 Dynasty's with his Laker teams.

what are we arguing over?......


- who was the better overall player?....Both were some of the greatest overall players ever?.....how many players could shoot and rebound/pass like Bird?...how many players could dominate offensively and dominate defensively like Kobe?.....


- I don't know.....I personally think defense outweighs most offense....and Kobe having elite offense and defense puts him over Bird.....I would take Kobe's career over Birds....I think Kobe had the better career that I'm sure of.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Peak/prime Bird is clearly superior to Kobe, not that Bryant wasn't just great but it's definitely Bird. Larry was a better overall shooter, better passer, better rebounder, better post-game, better team-defender (and you can argue that that leads to more defensive impact), smarter player, clutcher.

Bird has 3 MVPs and when healthy pretty much always in the top 3 in voting, he has 3 titles as the best player and main man with 2 FMVPs (but that in 1981 could've easily gone to him), better winning %, greater impact (from the get-go also).. Kobe stans are funny though.

[TheMarkMadsen]

This thread is exposing many people as just being blind Kobe haters.


Why doesn't Bird get punished for playing on stacked teams? He played on far more talented teams.

Bird gets full 100% credit for all 3 rings, even with only 2Fmvp..

So you give full credit to Bird for his 81 finals run which included the playoff averages of 22/14/6 yet in the same breath you diminish Kobes 01 playoff run where he averaged 32/7/6 through the first 3 rounds and 29/7/6 overall as being a "sidekick"

Not to mention that in the 81 playoffs the Celtcis had 3 OTHER PLAYERS AVERAGING 15+ ppg

In 1984 for Birds 2nd ring the Celtics had 3+ players in the playoffs averaging 15+ppg..

In 1986 for Birds 3rd championship the Celtics had 4 OTHER PLAYERS AVERAGING 15+ ppg including Kevin Mchale' 25/9..

During the Lakers 3peat (other thank Kobe) there was only 1 OTHER PLAYER THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE 3 peat to average 15+ ppg in the playoffs..


Kobe in 01 had a higher playoff PER than Bird did 81 & 84..

01 "Sidekick" Kobe had a higher Playoff PER than Bird for 75% of Birds championships.

Then these same people say Bird was a better defender.. When Kobe is 12x ALL NBA DEFENDER compared to Birds 3..they will claim "media hype" to try and devalue these all D teams, yet they'll forget that these teams are voted on by coaches..not the media.

[Trollsmasher]

Kobe stans are forgetting the simple fact of Bird being clearly superior player of the two.

It happens ot affect the rankings too (well, sometimes, lately everyone is just listing stats and trophies).

[SHAQisGOAT]

This thread is exposing many people as just being blind Kobe haters.


Why doesn't Bird get punished for playing on stacked teams? He played on far more talented teams.

Bird gets full 100% credit for all 3 rings, even with only 2Fmvp..

So you give full credit to Bird for his 81 finals run which included the playoff averages of 22/14/6 yet in the same breath you diminish Kobes 01 playoff run where he averaged 32/7/6 through the first 3 rounds and 29/7/6 overall as being a "sidekick"

Not to mention that in the 81 playoffs the Celtcis had 3 OTHER PLAYERS AVERAGING 15+ ppg

In 1984 for Birds 2nd ring the Celtics had 3+ players in the playoffs averaging 15+ppg..

In 1986 for Birds 3rd championship the Celtics had 4 OTHER PLAYERS AVERAGING 15+ ppg including Kevin Mchale' 25/9..

During the Lakers 3peat (other thank Kobe) there was only 1 OTHER PLAYER THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE 3 peat to average 15+ ppg in the playoffs..


Kobe in 01 had a higher playoff PER than Bird did 81 & 84..

01 "Sidekick" Kobe had a higher Playoff PER than Bird for 75% of Birds championships.

Then these same people say Bird was a better defender.. When Kobe is 12x ALL NBA DEFENDER compared to Birds 3..they will claim "media hype" to try and devalue these all D teams, yet they'll forget that these teams are voted on by coaches..not the media.

To me, more exposing the Kobe stans. I really like Kobe's attitude and game but I don't have to "suck his dick" or something, plenty do it.

Young Kobe was playing with Shaq at his best leading the team. Bird had to be the leader from the get-go, on a team that previously had the 2nd worst record in the league, with the same roster he led them to the best record and almost made the Finals. Forget that though. By his 2nd year he was winning the title as the leader/main man, adding Parish (who wasn't considered much in Golden State) and removing Cowens. Max won FMVP but Bird could've easily won it and he was the leader and better player, without him they never get there or close, without Max, Larry won it again.

But Kobe was a sidekick, can't forget that, Shaq was there as the best player and getting most attention. Bird was the best player and leader and had no superstar help around, most attention was on him and he was doing it all. Against MVP Julius Erving and a great 76ers team, Bird put up 26.7 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 4.6 apg on 48.6 %FG/55.4 %TS, while Dr J put up 19.9 ppg, 5.9 rpg , 4.1 apg on 43.3%FG/48.8 %TS. Then in the Finals he was the only player in NBA history (til now also) to put up 15+/15+/7+. Yes he had a below average shooting/scoring series (that's for him though) but he was a monster in every other department, and had a great and really clutch game 6 everywhere. In the Finals only Maxwell and Parish did, and Robert with 15.0.

Yea, and Shaq putting up like 30 on amazing FG% :rolleyes: Pretty much unstoppable. And while getting most attention. Dude like Max wasn't getting the same attention as Bird and Larry was getting him easy baskets time and time again.

Oh, so you wanna base this on PER?? Lmfao. Furthermore, you can't really compare PER across eras, it's a flawed situation. More importantly, PER takes too much away from players playing at a (not considerable, like 10% here) higher pace. Like Bird, or anyone from that time, couldn't average the same or really close at today's pace lol, which is not true: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po1M--HaINA
For example, Bird never had a higher PER than Durant's best in the RS and Kevin never had stats or impact as good as Bird. Same when comparing him to Kobe which is ridiculous, and you can throw in players like Magic. Kareem never had a PER as good as Dwyane's best or CP3 lmfao. Top 10 players in PER all-time includes like 7 players that have played/were playing in the last 10 years or so. It's like looking at RPG and at the top you only got guys from the 60's, averaging a ridiculous amount of rebounds because of pace and assuming all of them are the best rebounders... So, please do yourself a favor, stop being ignorant.

Yet Bird was #1 in DWS 4 times, 7 times top 5. Also 6 times top 10 in DRtg, #2 once. Celtics before he got there were one of the worst defensive teams in the league and with the same squad adding Bird they became one of the best, while he was 1st in DWS and 6th in DRtg as a rookie.
All of that as a forward, find the other forwards (or even centers) that have done something like that and you find some of the best defensive players ever, but lets neglect that because it's white-hick, not super-athletic, Bird.

[Round Mound]

-Larry Bird Was The Better Far Range Shooter
-Larry Bird Was The Better Mid Range Shooter
-Larry Bird Was The Better FT Shooter
-Larry Bird Was The Better Post Player
-Larry Bird Was The Better Rebounder
-Larry Bird Was The Better Passer
-Larry Bird Was The Better Team Defender (See DRT and DWS)
-Larry Bird Was Clutcher (Not Just Scores, Rebounds and Steals in Key Momments)
-Larry Bird Was The Better Leader

-Kobe Bryant Was The Better Ballhandler (he is a SG so?)
-Kobe Bryant Was The Better Slasher (he is a SG so?)

Larry Bird > Kobe Bryant

[IllegalD]

Anybody who ranks Magic or Bird over Kobe is just doing so because of nostalgia, or simply because they like those guys more than Kobe.

Basketball is played on both sides of the court.

While Bird is a great team defender, he was never ELITE defensively like Kobe was throughout his prime. Neither was Magic.

When I think about my Top 5 players to ever play the game they have to be elite on BOTH sides of the court.

Guys like Jordan, Duncan, Kobe, LeBron, Wilt. Etc.

[IllegalD]

Not to mention Bird's first ring came with Cedric "Cornbread" Maxwell being the Finals MVP.

:lol

Imagine if it was Kobe in Bird's place. People would never let him live it down, not would they give him credit for that ring as "the man".

Hell, they don't even give him credit when he DOES win finals MVP.

:lol

[Round Mound]

Anybody who ranks Magic or Bird over Kobe is just doing so because of nostalgia, or simply because they like those guys more than Kobe.

:no: Its Because They Where Better Players Than Kobe

Basketball is played on both sides of the court.

[B]Larry Bird Played Both Ends Pretty Well. Magic Didn

[Round Mound]

Not to mention Bird's first ring came with Cedric "Cornbread" Maxwell being the Finals MVP.

:lol

Imagine if it was Kobe in Bird's place. People would never let him live it down, not would they give him credit for that ring as "the man".

Hell, they don't even give him credit when he DOES win finals MVP.

:lol

:facepalm

Bird Was Stolen From the 1981 Finals MVP. Do You Think Cornbread Could Take a Team From The Worst Record To Over 60 The Next Year? :rolleyes: :no: .

This is What Cornbread and Bird Averaged For The Series.

Cedric: 17.7 PPG (56.8% FG) 9.5 RPG, 2.8 APG, 0.2 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 3.2 TOVs PG & 3.2 PFs PG

Larry: 15.3 PPG (41.9% FG), 15.3 RPG, 7.0 APG, 2.3 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 3.2 TOvs PG & 2.7 PFs PG.

Larry Was By Far The Best All Around Player Not Just In 1981 But Since He Entered The League in 1979 to About 1988 Before His Back Problems and Injuries.

[Eric Cartman]

:facepalm

Bird Was Stolen From the 1981 Finals MVP. Do You Think Cornbread Could Take a Team From The Worst Record To Over 60 The Next Year? :rolleyes: :no: .

This is What Cornbread and Bird Averaged For The Series.

Cedric: 17.7 PPG (56.8% FG) 9.5 RPG, 2.8 APG, 0.2 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 3.2 TOVs PG & 3.2 PFs PG

Larry: 15.3 PPG (41.9% FG), 15.3 RPG, 7.0 APG, 2.3 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 3.2 TOvs PG & 2.7 PFs PG.

Larry Was By Far The Best All Around Player Not Just In 1981 But Since He Entered The League in 1979 to About 1988 Before His Back Problems and Injuries.

It's funny that people are obsessed with Kobe's FG%, but when Bird shoots 41% only scoring 15 points no one gives a shit.

[Round Mound]

It's funny that people are obsessed with Kobe's FG%, but when Bird shoots 41% only scoring 15 points no one gives a shit.

You Forget to Comment on How Many SFs Have Averaged 15.3 RPG in a Final Series? Lets Not Forget Deliver 7.0 APG and 2.3 SPG? :confusedshrug:

[Derka]

Kobe playing in Bird's era would have had his soul ripped out.

Bird playing in this era would still be a Top 10 All-Time.

[Derka]

- Ok using your logic ... why does Bird get credit for 3 titles???

Cedric Maxwell won the FMVP in 1981 over Larry Bird...:hammerhead:

The Celtics don't even sniff at a title in 81 without Bird on the team.

[Legends66NBA7]

Kobe playing in Bird's era would have had his soul ripped out.

Not that I have much interest in this thread, but this is hyperbole. Kobe Bryant probably might be a different player, but certainly wouldn't get destroyed. He would adapt and be great.

Even if some don't think he's Top 10 all-time, he would be still considered Top 15-20 range by most. If a guy like Moses Malone could dominate (while getting similar ranking) the 80's, there should be no reason that a different version of Bryant wouldn't dominate either.

[Derka]

Not that I have much interest in this thread, but this is hyperbole. Kobe Bryant probably might be a different player, but certainly wouldn't get destroyed. He would adapt and be great.

Even if some don't think he's Top 10 all-time, he would be still considered Top 15-20 range by most. If a guy like Moses Malone could dominate (while getting similar ranking) the 80's, there should be no reason that a different version of Bryant wouldn't dominate either.

Eh. Call it hyperbole if you like, Kobe benefits from a lot of fitness and training techniques that didn't exist in Bird's day. Meanwhile, Bird with today's medicine certainly plays longer than 12 years. Furthermore I think Kobe would have had a harder time with the more physical defense 1s and 2s played back then. I get that I'm assuming a lot here...but I'm fairly confident in that.

I hate when we compare across eras like this to begin with, but when people take shots at Larry in a silly way like this...?

[TheMarkMadsen]

:facepalm

Bird Was Stolen From the 1981 Finals MVP. Do You Think Cornbread Could Take a Team From The Worst Record To Over 60 The Next Year? :rolleyes: :no: .

This is What Cornbread and Bird Averaged For The Series.

Cedric: 17.7 PPG (56.8% FG) 9.5 RPG, 2.8 APG, 0.2 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 3.2 TOVs PG & 3.2 PFs PG

Larry: 15.3 PPG (41.9% FG), 15.3 RPG, 7.0 APG, 2.3 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 3.2 TOvs PG & 2.7 PFs PG.

Larry Was By Far The Best All Around Player Not Just In 1981 But Since He Entered The League in 1979 to About 1988 Before His Back Problems and Injuries.

If Kobe ever had a finals where he put up 15ppg on 42% you would be all over him for it.

Bird wasn't the defender Kobe was, Bird has 3 All defensive teams to Kobes 12..this is voted on by coaches.

Kobes PER in 01 is higher than 2/3 of Birds championship runs.

Kobe never played on a team that was as stacked as some of birds, including 86 which may be one of the most stacked teams of all time.

In 86 Bird's second option put up 25 ppg in the playoffs on 58% shooting while taking 16 shots per game. While Bird put up 26ppg on 52% while taking 18 shots per game.

If Kobe ever had a second option who averaged 1 less point on 6% better shooting and on 2 less shots per game you'd be saying "real MVP = Mchale"

So lets take a look at Birds most stacked team while he was a FMVP, in the 86 Playoffs Birds best 4 supporting players averaged..

Kevin Mchale: 25/9/3/2 on 58%

Dennis Johnson: 16/4/6/2 on 45%

Danny Ainge: 16/4/5/2 on 55%

Robert Parish: 15/9/1/2 on 47%

Now lets look at Kobes most stacked team in which he won a FMVP and his 4 beat supporting players averages

2010 Lakers

Pau Gasol: 20/11/4/2 on 54%

Meta World Peace: 11/4/2 on 40%

Derrick Fisher: 10/3/3 on 45%

Lamar Odom: 10/9/2 on 47%



Birds teams were ridiculously stacked and nobody ever holds it against him like they do Kobe.

We always hear about Lamar Odom and his 10 & 9 on 47% and Gasols 20/11 but nobody brings up Mchales 25/9 or Parishes 15/9..

Kobes two best big men that year averaged a combined 30/20..

While Birds two best big men that year averaged 40/18..

But..but..but.. Kobe was carried by his bigs for those 2 FMVPS..

Inb4 Odom & Gasol > Mchale/Parish

[Round Mound]

- Kobe Stans are Indeed Strange Creatures. Bird Faced Way Better Competition Than Kobe Ever Had in his Finals Apperances.

- Kobe Carried By Shaq For 3 Rings

- Nobody Carried Bird In His Rings. He Was Always The Best All Around Player in the Finals Series and Indeed The Best All Around Player Overall in the 80s.

Lets See Kobe Play At This Level in an NBA Finals Series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_0g0FhSlWs

[SHAQisGOAT]

If Kobe ever had a finals where he put up 15ppg on 42% you would be all over him for it.

Bird wasn't the defender Kobe was, Bird has 3 All defensive teams to Kobes 12..this is voted on by coaches.

Kobes PER in 01 is higher than 2/3 of Birds championship runs.

Kobe never played on a team that was as stacked as some of birds, including 86 which may be one of the most stacked teams of all time.

In 86 Bird's second option put up 25 ppg in the playoffs on 58% shooting while taking 16 shots per game. While Bird put up 26ppg on 52% while taking 18 shots per game.

If Kobe ever had a second option who averaged 1 less point on 6% better shooting and on 2 less shots per game you'd be saying "real MVP = Mchale"

So lets take a look at Birds most stacked team while he was a FMVP, in the 86 Playoffs Birds best 4 supporting players averaged..

Kevin Mchale: 25/9/3/2 on 58%

Dennis Johnson: 16/4/6/2 on 45%

Danny Ainge: 16/4/5/2 on 55%

Robert Parish: 15/9/1/2 on 47%

Now lets look at Kobes most stacked team in which he won a FMVP and his 4 beat supporting players averages

2010 Lakers

Pau Gasol: 20/11/4/2 on 54%

Meta World Peace: 11/4/2 on 40%

Derrick Fisher: 10/3/3 on 45%

Lamar Odom: 10/9/2 on 47%



Birds teams were ridiculously stacked and nobody ever holds it against him like they do Kobe.

We always hear about Lamar Odom and his 10 & 9 on 47% and Gasols 20/11 but nobody brings up Mchales 25/9 or Parishes 15/9..

Kobes two best big men that year averaged a combined 30/20..

While Birds two best big men that year averaged 40/18..

But..but..but.. Kobe was carried by his bigs for those 2 FMVPS..

Inb4 Odom & Gasol > Mchale/Parish

Yea you completely ignored my reply to you and procede to say the same ignorant stuff, like only mention a single aspect of Bird's first championship, comparing PER across eras, talking about defensive teams and ignoring Bird's clear great defensive impact, or overall impact... Go back to my last reply and actually read it and understand it.

Anyways adding to my last post and something you don't even know or chose to neglect, how about Bird's 1984 PS, with the majority of his teammates underperforming Larry led them to the title against great teams and in the Finals against the mighty and really stacked showtime Lakers (better than any team Kobe has faced, and throwing Cooper, Worthy, McAdoo or Wilkes at Bird), leading the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, 3rd in blocks and 3rd in 3p% with more attempts, in the PS, Finals more of the same.. Think of how ****ing crazy is that, as a forward (leading in points, FG% and rebounds, not a center), without hogging the ball, without being the main ball-handler (leading in assists), without shot-jacking and playing within team's concept (as a player who could play inside really well but played outside more, with more 3pa's), not with off-the-charts USG%, and playing everywhere, at the top in DRtg and DWS (as a forward not a center)... Realize Kobe never came close to the same impact of a peak Bird.

1986 is one of the GOAT teams yes, if not the GOAT, but Bird's the best player on that team and the majority of the team's success has to do with him, when McHale was injured in the RS, Bird went apeship posting some of his best stats, playing some of the best basketball anyone's gonna see, incredibly the Celtics playing even better.

[Legends66NBA7]

Eh. Call it hyperbole if you like, Kobe benefits from a lot of fitness and training techniques that didn't exist in Bird's day. Meanwhile, Bird with today's medicine certainly plays longer than 12 years. Furthermore I think Kobe would have had a harder time with the more physical defense 1s and 2s played back then. I get that I'm assuming a lot here...but I'm fairly confident in that.

I hate when we compare across eras like this to begin with, but when people take shots at Larry in a silly way like this...?

It's wrong to take shots at Bird, but is counter productive to take away from both. To me, they are both great and would dominate any era.

[Round Mound]

Yea you completely ignored my reply to you and procede to say the same ignorant stuff, like only mention a single aspect of Bird's first championship, comparing PER across eras, talking about defensive teams and ignoring Bird's clear great defensive impact, or overall impact... Go back to my last reply and actually read it and understand it.

Anyways adding to my last post and something you don't even know or chose to neglect, how about Bird's 1984 PS, with the majority of his teammates underperforming Larry led them to the title against great teams and in the Finals against the mighty and really stacked showtime Lakers (better than any team Kobe has faced, and throwing Cooper, Worthy, McAdoo or Wilkes at Bird), leading the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, 3rd in blocks and 3rd in 3p% with more attempts, in the PS, Finals more of the same.. Think of how ****ing crazy is that, as a forward (leading in points, FG% and rebounds, not a center), without hogging the ball, without being the main ball-handler (leading in assists), without shot-jacking and playing within team's concept (as a player who could play inside really well but played outside more, with more 3pa's), not with off-the-charts USG%, and playing everywhere, at the top in DRtg and DWS (as a forward not a center)... Realize Kobe never came close to the same impact of a peak Bird.

1986 is one of the GOAT teams yes, if not the GOAT, but Bird's the best player on that team and the majority of the team's success has to do with him, when McHale was injured in the RS, Bird went apeship posting some of his best stats, playing some of the best basketball anyone's gonna see, incredibly the Celtics playing even better.

:applause:

[TheMarkMadsen]

:applause:


First off, I don't even know who to respond to, you or your alt.

Second, it's hard to even take you seriously..



how about Bird's 1984 PS, with the majority of his teammates underperforming.

Birds teammates underperforming?

He had 3 other guys putting up 15+ ppg. Robert Parish's 15/11(ties with Bird for team leader) 2 blocks (team leader) on 48%

Kevin Mchale also put up 15ppg on 50% 6 boards @ 2 blocks.

His 2 bigs combined for 30ppg & 17rpg & 4 blocks per game.

Kobe's 2 best bigs in the 2010 playoffs combined for 30ppg 20 rebounds per game & 3 blocks per game..

Yet Birds teammates "underperformed". Not to mention Bird also had 3 other players averaging 10+ ppg. Gerald Henderson at 13ppg on 49% and Cedrick Maxwell with 12 ppg on 50% and Dennis Johnson at 17ppg albeit at 40% shooting.

Gerald Henderson the Celtcis 5th leading scorer in the playoffs (for this "underperforming" supporting cast) at 13ppg would have had the 3rd highest playoff ppg on either of Kobes 09 or 2010 championship cast..

Let that sink in.

And then, you throw out PER because you say we "can't compare PERS across eras" yet you use other advanced statsistics such as Orgt (which has been exposed as being useless w/o proper context) and Dws..get real dude you cant just cherry pick which advanced stats "count" and which ones don't.

You call Kobe a shot jacker yet in the same sentence you praise Bird for leading his team in assist.. When Kobes led his team in assist for all 5 of his championship runs..

And it's funny you'd call Kobe a shot jacker, when in Birds 2 FMVP runs he averaged 19 FGA in 84 & 18 FGA in 86. Kobe in 09 averaged 23 FGA & 22 FGA in 10. So is at most 4 extra shots per game really constitute as bein a "shock jacker" especially when you factor in how much more help Bird had. Kobe was put in a role where he had to shoulder the load more offensively than Bird.

Like I said its really hard to take you seriously when in your last post all you said about the 3peat was that "Shaq carried Kobe". Which is funny..

Because in 01 while being "carried" by Shaq Kobe managed to average more points per game in the playoffs than Bird ever did, which came in 84, in those same playoffs Bird also averaged 6 assist per game, in 01 Kobe averaged 6 assist per game.

So in 01 while being "carried" Kobe averaged more ppg than Bird ever did while averaging that same amount of assist as Bird in the 84 playoffs.

Kobes 02 run would rank as Birds 3rd highest Ppg playoff run and Kobes 2000 playoff run of 20ppg is 4 points under Birds playoff average of 24ppg..
Not to mention Kobe in 01 led the playoffs in WS, averaged 29.4 ppg and led the team in assist.

As far as impact goes. Kobe has 8 playoff runs where he averaged more ppg than Bird ever did in the playoffs.

The 86 Celtics are one of the most stacked teams in NBA history and to give one player all the credit for it is ridiculous, especially when I've already shown how all around stacked and productive they were.

When you give Bird all the credit for 86 and then claim Kobe was carried and gets no credit for the 3peat it's hard to take you seriously

[Droid101]

You need to turn off bold when you are posting as "another random poster who agrees 100% with what you're saying" or it gets pretty obvious.

[SHAQisGOAT]

First off, I don't even know who to respond to, you or your alt.

Second, it's hard to even take you seriously..




Birds teammates underperforming?

He had 3 other guys putting up 15+ ppg. Robert Parish's 15/11(ties with Bird for team leader) 2 blocks (team leader) on 48%

Kevin Mchale also put up 15ppg on 50% 6 boards @ 2 blocks.

His 2 bigs combined for 30ppg & 17rpg & 4 blocks per game.

Kobe's 2 best bigs in the 2010 playoffs combined for 30ppg 20 rebounds per game & 3 blocks per game..

Yet Birds teammates "underperformed". Not to mention Bird also had 3 other players averaging 10+ ppg. Gerald Henderson at 13ppg on 49% and Cedrick Maxwell with 12 ppg on 50% and Dennis Johnson at 17ppg albeit at 40% shooting.

Gerald Henderson the Celtcis 5th leading scorer in the playoffs (for this "underperforming" supporting cast) at 13ppg would have had the 3rd highest playoff ppg on either of Kobes 09 or 2010 championship cast..

Let that sink in.

And then, you throw out PER because you say we "can't compare PERS across eras" yet you use other advanced statsistics such as Orgt (which has been exposed as being useless w/o proper context) and Dws..get real dude you cant just cherry pick which advanced stats "count" and which ones don't.

The 86 Celtics are one of the most stacked teams in NBA history and to give one player all the credit for it is ridiculous, especially when I've already shown how all around stacked and productive they were.

When you give Bird all the credit for 86 and then claim Kobe was carried and gets no credit for the 3peat it's hard to take you seriously

Alternate account?! Lol, because I'm bolding my post? Yea right if I was Round Mound I would really "give that up". Lmfao believe what you want, idgaf.

Do you know what underperforming means? Simply that they played below their standards.
Looking at the Celtics in the 1984 RS:
Parish with 19.0/10.7 with 1.7 blocks on .584 TS%, in 35.8 mpg
McHale with 18.4 ppg on .605 TS%
DJ with 13.2 ppg and 4.2 apg on .515 TS%, in 33.3 mpg
Max put up 11.9/5.8 on .610 TS%, in 31.3 mpg
Henderson with 11.6/3.8 on .570 TS%
PS:
Parish with 14.9/10.8 with 1.8 blocks on .511 TS%, in 37.8 mpg
McHale with 14.8 ppg on .572 TS%
DJ with 16.6 ppg and 4.4 apg on .491 TS%, in 36.7 mpg
Max put up 11.9/5.2 on .604 TS%, in 32.7 mpg
Henderson with 12.5/4.2 on .531 TS%

Parish scored considerably less (19 to 15) while playing 2 more minutes, 54.6% from the field to 47.8%, same rebounds also.
McHale over 18 ppg on 55.6% from the field to less than 15 on 50.4%.
DJ playing much more minutes but only raising his apg by 0.2, scoring more but 43.7% to 40.4% from the field.
Max same stats but playing more and dropping his FG% by 3%.
Henderson a bit better but not shooting as well.

So yea they underperformed. Also they played at about a 10% higher pace so role players and below end up with more shots or points, compare talent of teammates and how were they playing instead of the raw stats, plus look at competition.

Bird led the team in points (and ppg by more than 10), rebounds (and rpg), assists (and apg by more than 1), steals (and spg), FG% (by 2% more than the 2nd), FT%, he was 3rd in blocks (and bpg) and 3rd in 3p% with more 3s taken... Do you realize how ****ing crazy is that? Are you just dumb or choosing to ignore? That right there shows Bird's level and how his teammates were underperforming. That's a forward leading in rebounds, a non-pg, non-main-ball-handler leading in assists without hogging, a non-shot-jacker leading in points, not a center but leading in FG% and on the other hand also in FT% and in 3P%, with less than 26.0 USG%, always with great defensive impact, always at the top in DRtg and DWS in the leaague, both RS and PS, from the get-go.

You wanna talk about teammates, look at teams faced, Bucks with Moncrief, Marques, Lanier and Pressey, for example. In the Finals the Lakers with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis and Byron... Since you like stats, in the PS:
Kareem - 24/8/4/1/2 in 36.5 min, on 55.5% from the field and 75.0% from ft
Magic - 18/7/14/2/1 on .601 TS%
Worthy - 18/5/3 on 60% from the field
McAdoo - 18/5 on .557 TS%
Mike McGee - 12.4 ppg on .606 TS%
Cooper - 11/4/6/1/1 on .545 TS%
Scott - 8.6 ppg on .485 TS%
Rambis - 7/6 on 65% from the field
Easily greater than what Bird had around and they were throwing the kitchen sink at Larry with Cooper, Worthy or McAdoo and constant double-teams, physicality to the max... Go look at what he did.

Shit :facepalm , how dumb must you be? :wtf: I was talking about the times Bird led the league in DRtg or DWS and whatnot, I was actually comparing him to his peers, how he did while he was playing in the league, not comparing him to Kobe...
Since you bring up PER, you know how many times Kobe led the league in PER? 0. In fact he was only above 5th once. Bird led two times and was in the top 3 six times, playoffs even better.

Let me just quote myself so you don't miss it (can you even understand it??):

Oh, so you wanna base this on PER?? Lmfao. Furthermore, you can't really compare PER across eras, it's a flawed situation. More importantly, PER takes too much away from players playing at a (not considerable, like 10% here) higher pace. Like Bird, or anyone from that time, couldn't average the same or really close at today's pace lol, which is not true: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po1M--HaINA
For example, Bird never had a higher PER than Durant's best in the RS and Kevin never had stats or impact as good as Bird. Same when comparing him to Kobe which is ridiculous, and you can throw in players like Magic. Kareem never had a PER as good as Dwyane's best or CP3 lmfao. Top 10 players in PER all-time includes like 7 players that have played/were playing in the last 10 years or so. It's like looking at RPG and at the top you only got guys from the 60's, averaging a ridiculous amount of rebounds because of pace and assuming all of them are the best rebounders... So, please do yourself a favor, stop being ignorant.

Face it, Larry was a better overall shooter, better rebounder, better passer, better post-game, same deal of footwork, even better at using both hands up close, he was a better leader, higher overall intangibles, even higher IQ, smarter player, better in the clutch, better team-defender (and again Larry had greater defensive impact on a team), better post-defender, hustled more. Bird was simply more impactful, greater peak/prime, did more for his teams, main man and leader from the get-go, top 3 in MVP voting pretty much always when healthy..
Kobe has athleticism on him (but Bird's bigger), on-ball perimeter D, slashing/finishing (and the finishing is not by much at all), ball-handling (and not by all that, just that Bird didn't have the necessary speed or quickness to play guard), what else really?

I never gave Bird all the credit or say that Kobe was "carried". Facts are that Shaq was the best player, the main man, the leader, the one getting most attention and not Kobe, and all of that for Shaq applies to Larry while he was leading one of the GOAT teams. Claim the team was stacked? Yes it was (and lets not act like the other teams in his career came even close to that when considering everything) but the league also had some really stacked teams and guess what? Bird did what he had to, leading that team and simply destroying the competition, what else should he do? Not like they barely won or remotely close, they tear shit up.
Oh and again when McHale was injured, Bird somehow made them better and played that type of basketball that you rarely see, unreal.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

lol same exact ridiculous writing style

:roll:

[SHAQisGOAT]

People actually believing I'm Round Mound?? Cus of the bold? Really?! :oldlol:

Check the ip or something.

Believe what you want though, I don't care.

[Round Mound]

People actually believing I'm Round Mound?? Cus of the bold? Really?! :oldlol:

Check the ip or something.

Believe what you want though, I don't care.

[B]SHAQisGOAT has given you enough evidence why Bird > Bryant.

SHAQisGOAT has copied My Style of Writing, So What?
Atleast HE HASN

[eliteballer]

lol same exact ridiculous writing style

:roll:

:roll:

[G-Funk]

Put Kobe ahead of Bird in ur greatest of all time list.