Better defender: Pippen or MJ?

[thabisyo]

Who was the mastermind defender behind the bulls championships?

No agendas :hammerhead:

[andgar923]

MJ

[Electric Slide]

Pippen

before someone says Jordan was doing all the work offensively, Pippen in 94 when he was doing all the work offensively was a better defender than Jordan ever was.

[wally_world]

MJ was the slightly better man-to-man defender, just because of his intensity and determination to win.

Pippen the better all-around defender (weakside blocks, versatility, passing lanes etc).

[KNOW1EDGE]

MJ was the slightly better man-to-man defender, just because of his intensity and determination to win.

Pippen the better all-around defender (weakside blocks, versatility, passing lanes etc).

what he said.

Pippen was longer and more versatile.

But Jordan was quicker, lower to the ground, and had the intensity and determination.

[NumberSix]

MJ was the best at everything ever. Obvi.

[Marchesk]

MJ was the best at everything ever. Obvi.

Only until Wilt is brought into the conversation :D

[andgar923]

Pippen

before someone says Jordan was doing all the work offensively, Pippen in 94 when he was doing all the work offensively was a better defender than Jordan ever was.
:lol

MJ was the Bulls' go to stopper, not Pip.

Sure, usually the defensive assignments got split up between them (and Harper during the last 3 peat), but when they needed to stop somebody it was MJ that covered that player.

Another myth that surrounds this kinda talk is that Pip was not only the player that covered the other team's best scorer, but he was used as a free safety of sorts. So which is it?

In fact both MJ and Pip roamed and were assigned the best scorer (depending on position and match ups). MJ was just as good if not better as a help defender due to his instincts, IQ and timing. Pip naturally could cover more ground due to his length, but MJ was the smarter tougher defender.

But Pip got done up many more times. Many many more times.

[SamuraiSWISH]

1st 3-peat: MJ
2nd 3-peat: Pippen

Career Totality: MJ

Better instincts, IQ, playing of angles, superior lateral quickness, anticipation skills, lockdown man defender, excellent help defender, elite pick pocket skills, a demon in the passing lanes.

Pippen at his best was merely more versatile due to a couple of extra inches in height and wingspan.

[CavaliersFTW]

dat doberman defense :pimp:

[havoc33]

Pippen was the best overall defender. His ability to read defenses and disrupt the offensive flow was unmatched. His excellent basketball IQ, huge wingspan and athletic ability all contributed to this. After the 97 Finals defeat, both Stockton and Malone admitted that Pippen was the most difficult task with facing the Bulls, not Jordan.

The defense Pippen played from 92-98 is some of the best I've ever seen in basketball.

[East_Stone_Ya]

Pippen due to his versatility as defender. He could guard players 1 to 3 and sometimes even 4.

[CJ Mustard]

Jordan was the greatest wing defender ever.

[Harison]

Phil said something along those lines "for entire game Pippen sometimes was a better defender than Jordan, but when it mattered the most - MJ could completely shut-down his man."

[jstern]

I always heard that it was Jordan, but it has all gotten blurred with anti Jordan agendas on the internet. I saw a video of Barkley, Kenny, Magic agreeing that Jordan was the best defender of his era.

And I understand how it must feel for people who didn't watch Jordan play with people constantly saying that he was the best at this or that, must sound brainwash. But what can you do if its true. I think it has to do with Jordan's mind, focus determination. Obsessive to be the best.

[Greg Oden 50]

Pippen

before someone says Jordan was doing all the work offensively, Pippen in 94 when he was doing all the work offensively was a better defender than Jordan ever was.
22ppg at best :facepalm

[Round Mound]

Now Get Real ...Pippen :rolleyes: :facepalm

[Mr Exlax]

Someone would have to be a Jordan stan to not say it was Pippen.

[secund2nun]

Pippen, but since he is up against MJ we cannot pick anyone but MJ because he is our all mighty god and the GOAT in every category of existence.

[secund2nun]

22ppg at best :facepalm

55 wins without MJ, game 7 of the ECF semis and should have won that if not for a bad call against Chicago. They should have been in the ECF in 94 playing Indy, a team they had a good shot at beating.

[thabisyo]

55 wins without MJ, game 7 of the ECF semis and should have won that if not for a bad call against Chicago. They should have been in the ECF in 94 playing Indy, a team they had a good shot at beating.

Pippen went on beast mode after MJ left. Pippen is definitely, underrated

[LosScandalous]

Jordan's biggest defensive weakness is his post D. Magic Johnson proved this in game 1 and 2 of the finals. Clyde and Penny torched Jordan in the post too.

It's also BS that he continued to make 1st defensive teams and Ron Harper didn't after his 2nd retirement.

[Sarcastic]

Jordan pretty easily.


Pippen might be the most overrated player on ISH. He had the mental fortitude of a fruit fly. He crumbled in every pressure situation in his career in which Jordan wasn't there to bail him out.

[guy]

Pippen, but since he is up against MJ we cannot pick anyone but MJ because he is our all mighty god and the GOAT in every category of existence.



Someone would have to be a Jordan stan to not say it was Pippen.


Its hilarious how people say shit like this as if there's absolutely no argument that can be made. :oldlol:

[riseagainst]

Its hilarious how people say shit like this as if there's absolutely no argument that can be made. :oldlol:

they both also have 1 thing in common: lebron fans. :oldlol:

[guy]

MJ was the best at everything ever. Obvi.

Out of all the players in the past or present that Jordan has been compared to in at least some aspect of the game i.e. Nique, Drexler, Pippen, Kobe, T-Mac, Carter, Wade, Lebron, etc., other then the passing of Lebron, there is nothing else that either of them are inarguably better then Jordan at. So its funny how people say shit like this.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan pretty easily.


Pippen might be the most overrated player on ISH. He had the mental fortitude of a fruit fly. He crumbled in every pressure situation in his career in which Jordan wasn't there to bail him out.
As a Bulls fan, this is the truth. He validated this on stacked squads in Houston and then UBER stacked squads in Portland. I don't even think pre injury 38 year old Wizards Jordan chokes and doesn't close out the way Pippen did on that team.

[K Xerxes]

Can't say I ever cared. Frankly, if either one was guarding you, it'll probably be a sad day for you.

Thankfully the myth that Pippen always guarded the opposing team's best player has been thoroughly debunked now, but Pippen's help defense was just out of this world. MJ's lockdown defense is similar.

Maybe because of Pippen's versatility, he's more of an asset to a team defensively, but it doesn't really matter.

[Legends66NBA7]

they both also have 1 thing in common: lebron fans. :oldlol:

It's not just LeBron James fans saying that. It's today's generation of fan bases who didn't watch or care to even to look into context of Jordan/Pippen's career on who they guarded.

You can't specify it to one fan base, since it's not.

[Soundwave]

Pippen probably by a hair, though it seemed like guys like Penny Hardaway and a younger Kobe Bryant had their way with Pippen, so he probably wasn't as good of an on the ball defender as MJ.

Jordan had to carry the burden for the Bulls offensively whereas Pippen could more or less pick his spots, so that makes a big difference when you are expending so much energy of offense already, to be a great defender also is remarkable.

[SamuraiSWISH]

It's not just LeBron James fans saying that. It's today's generation of fan bases who didn't watch or care to even to look into context of Jordan/Pippen's career on who they guarded.

You can't specify it to one fan base, since it's not.
Ummm it's predominantly those fan bases. LeBron stans, Kobe stans, and Laker nation ...

There is an obvious agenda. I don't see any other fan bases making these accusations. Or the woe is me, sniping, "oh MJ had to be the best at everything" counter argument making it sound as if the people who actually witnessed MJ are exaggerating his abilities. As if MJ didn't have a CLEAR case of being better at aspects of the game than a lot of these players he's compared to ...

I mean the Bulls coach Johnny Bach said it with his own words that MJ was the better defender.


Out of all the players in the past or present that Jordan has been compared to in at least some aspect of the game i.e. Nique, Drexler, Pippen, Kobe, T-Mac, Carter, Wade, Lebron, etc., other then the passing of Lebron, there is nothing else that either of them are inarguably better then Jordan at. So its funny how people say shit like this.
Absolutely.

[NumberSix]

Ummm it's predominantly those fan bases. LeBron stans, Kobe stans, and Laker nation ...

There is an obvious agenda. I don't see any other fan bases making these accusations. Or the woe is me, sniping, "oh MJ had to be the best at everything" counter argument making it sound as if the people who actually witnessed MJ are exaggerating his abilities. As if MJ didn't have a CLEAR case of being better at aspects of the game than a lot of these players he's compared to ...

I mean the Bulls coach Johnny Bach said it with his own words that MJ was the better defender.


Absolutely.
Well people are exaggerating his abilities. I've actually seen people say he's the best midrange shooter of all time. Are you fcuking kidding?

And LeBron's passing isn't the only thing. More than one of the listed players are better rebounders. Kobe is in fact a batter shooter than Jordan. Both Kobe and LeBron are better long range shooters.

[Legends66NBA7]

Ummm it's predominantly those fan bases. LeBron stans, Kobe stans, and Laker nation ...

There is an obvious agenda. I don't see any other fan bases making these accusations. Or the woe is me, sniping, "oh MJ had to be the best at everything" counter argument making it sound as if the people who actually witnessed MJ are exaggerating his abilities. As if MJ didn't have a CLEAR case of being better at aspects of the game than a lot of these players he's compared to.

I know. It's just riseagainst guy comes into every thread mocking LeBron fans, as if his fanbase (Kobe/Laker fans) are any better. Infact, they started some of the bullshit.

[Mr Exlax]

Its hilarious how people say shit like this as if there's absolutely no argument that can be made. :oldlol:

Who's arguing though sweet cheeks? I simply stated my opinion. This whole thread is subjective.

[Mr Exlax]

they both also have 1 thing in common: lebron fans. :oldlol:

I'm a fan of basketball. Fan of all the players. Is that hard to grasp?

[Mr Exlax]

It's not just LeBron James fans saying that. It's today's generation of fan bases who didn't watch or care to even to look into context of Jordan/Pippen's career on who they guarded.

You can't specify it to one fan base, since it's not.

This is why I consider Pippen the better defender. Jordan stans take it as a swipe or some shit. I don't really understand why though.

[NumberSix]

This is why I consider Pippen the better defender. Jordan stans take it as a swipe or some shit. I don't really understand why though.
Seriously. It's not like Pippen was some B-grade defensive player. For Jordan mythologists though, they insist on him being the best at everything.

[guy]

Who's arguing though sweet cheeks? I simply stated my opinion. This whole thread is subjective.

Your opinion is that anyone that thinks its Jordan must be a stan, which would mean this is inarguably Pippen? That means your a shitty poster that probably has little knowledge of that era and both players.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Well people are exaggerating his abilities. I've actually seen people say he's the best midrange shooter of all time. Are you fcuking kidding?

And LeBron's passing isn't the only thing. More than one of the listed players are better rebounders. Kobe is in fact a batter shooter than Jordan. Both Kobe and LeBron are better long range shooters.

To not include him in that category of greatest midrange shooters (if not the greatest) ever is silly. Seriously find your brain, dude.

[Legends66NBA7]

This is why I consider Pippen the better defender. Jordan stans take it as a swipe or some shit. I don't really understand why though.

I can see if you want preference because the difference in their defense isn't that huge, at all.

In terms of objectivity, there was an article posted on another site on Pippen vs Jordan on their defensive assignments throughout their playoff career. Like K Xerxes's mentioned earlier on in debunking myths, that Jordan was actually guarding the opposing team's best player more often than Pippen was.

I can see why a Jordan fan would be ticked about Pippen getting propped at the guy who "always" got the best defensive assignment, since it's not true. I don't think their taking it as a swipe, but sticking to what actually happened.

[guy]

Well people are exaggerating his abilities. I've actually seen people say he's the best midrange shooter of all time. Are you fcuking kidding?

And LeBron's passing isn't the only thing. More than one of the listed players are better rebounders. Kobe is in fact a batter shooter than Jordan. Both Kobe and LeBron are better long range shooters.

No, none of those players were inarguably better rebounders. You can't just look at raw numbers to come up with that conclusion. Arguably? Of course, but not inarguably.

I was mainly referring to the general aspects of the game i.e. scoring, passing, rebounding, defense, not specific subsets of those aspects like shooting and even thats not inarguable.

[SamuraiSWISH]

To not include him in that category of greatest midrange shooters (if not the greatest) ever is silly. Seriously find your brain, dude.
Exactly. Not to mention factual data saying MJ and Kobe, LeBron are virtually the same tier percentage wise of three point shooters. MJ didn't make it the focus of his game. He preferred, correctly, higher percentage shots. We penalize that? That's why he's clearly better than both Kobe and LeBron, his offensive game was perfectly balanced.

[guy]

Seriously. It's not like Pippen was some B-grade defensive player. For Jordan mythologists though, they insist on him being the best at everything.

Who the hell said this?

[NumberSix]

Exactly. Not to mention factual data saying MJ and Kobe, LeBron are virtually the same tier percentage wise of three point shooters. MJ didn't make it the focus of his game. He preferred, correctly, higher percentage shots. We penalize that? That's why he's clearly better than both Kobe and LeBron, his offensive game was perfectly balanced.
Higher percentage doesn't equal higher efficiency. Shooting 37% on 3s is more efficient than shooting 50% on 2s.

The way you score is irrelevant. The efficiency is the only thing that matters.

[Mr Exlax]

Your opinion is that anyone that thinks its Jordan must be a stan, which would mean this is inarguably Pippen? That means your a shitty poster that probably has little knowledge of that era and both players.

Go and read all the responses before mine. Cats on here trying to downgrade Pip. Only a stan shits on another player to boost up a different one. That's where my response came from. I have enough knowledge of that era because I freaking watched it back then. freakinging message board cats swear to god they know everything. My dude I'm 31. I watched basketball and played on basketball teams. I understand and remember who they defended and who defended them. I take all that into consideration. I overthink most things. Put me on ignore or whatever if I'm such a shitty poster. Hell if you don't agree with my opinion then you don't agree with my opinion. No need to talk shit about me.

[Smoke117]

Pippen. Jordan was never as dominant defensively as Pippen was in 94 when Jordan retired and then especially in 95 when he was screwed out of the DPOY by Mutombo. Jordan's best defensive seasons came before Scottie and Horace Grant developed. As he had to do more like Pippen in 94 and especially 95. He was never as dominant as Pippen in 94 and 95. Scottie Pippen basically anchored the bulls defense. They were 6th in def rating in 94 and 2ND in 95. Pippen was a complete monster in 95 when there was no MJ and Grant who were the two other best defenders during the threepeat besides Pippen. He was playing with the likes of Bj Armstrong, Toni Kukoc, Steve Kerr, and Will Perdue who were all jokes defensively.

I do think Jordan was the better one on one defensive player as he was more nimble, but Scottie was easily the better help/team defender. He was also the defensive leader of the team telling players where to be. There's a story from phil who asked why a player did what he did and his answer was "Scottie told me to" and that was that. Pippen used to call the plays opposing players were going to run before they even knew they were going to run the play.

[Mr Exlax]

I can see if you want preference because the difference in their defense isn't that huge, at all.

In terms of objectivity, there was an article posted on another site on Pippen vs Jordan on their defensive assignments throughout their playoff career. Like K Xerxes's mentioned earlier on in debunking myths, that Jordan was actually guarding the opposing team's best player more often than Pippen was.

I can see why a Jordan fan would be ticked about Pippen getting propped at the guy who "always" got the best defensive assignment, since it's not true. I don't think their taking it as a swipe, but sticking to what actually happened.

If Jordan held the said best player on one posession but Pip did most of the time then I'm gonna give Pip the edge bro. Nobody holds a player every single play. Oh and again, I'm not the one saying Pip held the best player EVERY play every game. Them stans or diehard hardcore fans need to take that shit up with other cats. That shit aint me.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Go and read all the responses before mine. Cats on here trying to downgrade Pip. Only a stan shits on another player to boost up a different one. That's where my response came from. I have enough knowledge of that era because I ****ing watched it back then. ****ing message board cats swear to god they know ****ing everything. My ***** I'm 31. I watched basketball and played on basketball teams. I understand and remember who they defended and who defended them. I take all that into consideration. I overthink most things. Put me on ignore or whatever the **** you **** if I'm such a shitty poster. ***** if I don't agree with my opinion then you don't agree with my opinion. No need to talk shit about me.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

All those swear words. Damn, you're mad as hell. Going off the deep end.

Take a nap, kiddo.

[NumberSix]

Jordan Stan's = racists.

[Legends66NBA7]

Go and read all the responses before mine. Cats on here trying to downgrade Pip.

I seen your first post on the 2nd page. There was like one guy who was criticizing Pippen's defense. Everyone else said they were about even. There was one guy who said Pippen's defense in one year was better than Jordan's ever was.

[Mr Exlax]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

All those swear words. Damn, you're mad as hell. Going off the deep end.

Take a nap, kiddo.

Guess you can't type fuggin or ninja on here. Nobody's mad though sweet cheeks. Just annoyed with stans that make personal insults because somebody's opinion is different. It's my old age. I forgot you young punks aren't really ever gonna amount to shit.

[Solefade]

Some people on this thread act like Pippen was a one way player like Tony Allen or something. He had to carry his own weight on offense too smh

[Legends66NBA7]

If Jordan held the said best player on one posession but Pip did most of the time then I'm gonna give Pip the edge bro. Nobody holds a player every single play. Oh and again, I'm not the one saying Pip held the best player EVERY play every game. Them stans or diehard hardcore fans need to take that shit up with other cats. That shit aint me.

I'm just saying what's going on in this thread, my mistake I wasn't trying to put the blame on you. Again, to me, there's not much difference so it's preference thing.

[Mr Exlax]

I seen your first post on the 2nd page. There was like one guy who was criticizing Pippen's defense. Everyone else said they were about even. There was one guy who said Pippen's defense in one year was better than Jordan's ever was.

One too many then. Just give it time. I see this same stupid shit on here every day. Bash one player to boost up another. Shit they both were great defenders. I think Pip was the better defender overall.

[guy]

Go and read all the responses before mine. Cats on here trying to downgrade Pip. Only a stan shits on another player to boost up a different one. That's where my response came from. I have enough knowledge of that era because I ****ing watched it back then. ****ing message board cats swear to god they know ****ing everything. My ***** I'm 31. I watched basketball and played on basketball teams. I understand and remember who they defended and who defended them. I take all that into consideration. I overthink most things. Put me on ignore or whatever the **** you **** if I'm such a shitty poster. ***** if I don't agree with my opinion then you don't agree with my opinion. No need to talk shit about me.

You going to call someone sweet cheeks and expect to get a nice response back? :oldlol: I read all the responses and the ones picking Jordan mostly brought up fair points that can back up their argument, while 1 said he was overrated. I don't think its wrong to pick Pippen, but the idea that its inarguable to the point that it must make you a Jordan stan to pick Jordan is incredibly stupid.

[Mr Exlax]

Some people on this thread act like Pippen was a one way player like Tony Allen or something. He had to carry his own weight on offense too smh

Those people are called stans bro.

[Legends66NBA7]

Some people on this thread act like Pippen was a one way player like Tony Allen or something. He had to carry his own weight on offense too smh

Who said this ?

Pippen is the guy who has gotten biggest praise in this thread by a poster.

[NumberSix]

You going to call someone sweet cheeks and expect to get a nice response back? :oldlol: I read all the responses and the ones picking Jordan mostly brought up fair points that can back up their argument, while 1 said he was overrated. I don't think its wrong to pick Pippen, but the idea that its inarguable to the point that it must make you a Jordan stan to pick Jordan is incredibly stupid.
Sour cheeks doe

[Mr Exlax]

You going to call someone sweet cheeks and expect to get a nice response back? :oldlol: I read all the responses and the ones picking Jordan mostly brought up fair points that can back up their argument, while 1 said he was overrated. I don't think its wrong to pick Pippen, but the idea that its inarguable to the point that it must make you a Jordan stan to pick Jordan is incredibly stupid.

I call stans sweet cheeks. I do it on ISH often. Seems to bother them. It could be carry over from the other 1 million threads where Pip gets drug through the mud when stans are propping up MJ. Maybe that's where the stan line comes from.

[Mr Exlax]

Who said this ?

Pippen is the guy who has gotten biggest praise in this thread by a poster.

Carry over from the million other threads I told yall. It ain't just me.

[Mr Exlax]

You know what it is, it's the same damn people in every thread saying it. That's why the reaction. That's the stan line. It might not have been anything in this thread, but it's come up before.

[Legends66NBA7]

Carry over from the million other threads I told yall. It ain't just me.

It may come from other threads, but the poster I quoted was talking about this thread.

I didn't see anybody say Pippen's defense was "one way like Tony Allen" (not like that's bad either, even though it isn't).

[Smoke117]

Some people on this thread act like Pippen was a one way player like Tony Allen or something. He had to carry his own weight on offense too smh


Actually on that note, Pippen got flack because he couldn't finish games offensively in the 95 season because he was putting so much effort defensively. He was exhausted by the end of games as he had to do everything defensively in 95. Ron Harper helped somewhat, but the team overall was a joke defensively and finished 2nd in defense rating because of Scottie who led the league in Drating. No perimeter player has ever led the league in drating before or after Scottie did in 1995.

[SamuraiSWISH]

You going to call someone sweet cheeks and expect to get a nice response back? :oldlol: I read all the responses and the ones picking Jordan mostly brought up fair points that can back up their argument, while 1 said he was overrated. I don't think its wrong to pick Pippen, but the idea that its inarguable to the point that it must make you a Jordan stan to pick Jordan is incredibly stupid.
Those people are called LeBron stans, though.

Prop up Pippen, in order to devalue Jordan, in a not so subtle effort to elevate LeBron ... or at the very least put him on equal footing of Jordan legacy and the context of it.

Due to the obvious embarrassment of LeBron having to go chase rings down in Miami by joining a fellow top five talent. IE: Wade.

Notice: NumberSix, Mr Exlax all known, and admittedly LeBron groupies. Insecure LeBron stans. Now, it's at all costs attack Jordan and his fans. Comment: "All Jordan fans are racists" ... how is that even relevant?

:oldlol:

[Mr Exlax]

Those people are called LeBron stans, though. Prop up Pippen, in order to devalue Jordan, in a not so subtle effort to elevate LeBron ... or at the very least put him on equal footing of Jordan legacy and context wise to the embarrassment of LeBron having to go chase rings down in Miami by joining a fellow top five talent. IE: Wade.

Notice: NumberSix, Mr Exlax all known, and admittedly LeBron groupies. Insecure LeBron stans. Now, it's at all costs attack Jordan and his fans. Comment: "All Jordan fans are racists" ... how is that even relevant?

:oldlol:


See what I mean lol. What the hell do I give two shits about arguing somebody's legacy? I'm a fan of basketball bro. I love the game. Maybe if you played it you'd understand. Devaluing MJ won't make LeBron a better player. It doesn't work like that in my eyes. The rings thing, I mean, go look at my thread about rings. Them hoes mean 0 to me because it's a team accomplishment. Again, if you loved basketball or even played the shit you'd understand. I can tell you've never been the best player on a court, but lose to a better team.

[riseagainst]

Those people are called LeBron stans, though.

Prop up Pippen, in order to devalue Jordan, in a not so subtle effort to elevate LeBron ... or at the very least put him on equal footing of Jordan legacy and the context of it.

Due to the obvious embarrassment of LeBron having to go chase rings down in Miami by joining a fellow top five talent. IE: Wade.

Notice: NumberSix, Mr Exlax all known, and admittedly LeBron groupies. Insecure LeBron stans. Now, it's at all costs attack Jordan and his fans. Comment: "All Jordan fans are racists" ... how is that even relevant?

:oldlol:

it's weird that Mr Exlax is still trying hard to convince everyone he is some unbiased basketball fan who happens to like Lebron. All his posts I have seen has to do with either propping up lebron or disgracing MJ and Kobe.

:oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Maybe if you played it you'd understand.
:oldlol:


I can tell you've never been the best player on a court, but lose to a better team.
:oldlol:

[Smoke117]

Those people are called LeBron stans, though.

Prop up Pippen, in order to devalue Jordan, in a not so subtle effort to elevate LeBron ... or at the very least put him on equal footing of Jordan legacy and the context of it.

Due to the obvious embarrassment of LeBron having to go chase rings down in Miami by joining a fellow top five talent. IE: Wade.

Notice: NumberSix, Mr Exlax all known, and admittedly LeBron groupies. Insecure LeBron stans. Now, it's at all costs attack Jordan and his fans. Comment: "All Jordan fans are racists" ... how is that even relevant?

:oldlol:


You are the biggest ****ing Jordan Stan there is. You are the most biased Jordan **** sucker there is. You shouldn't be saying anything as you have nothing to say but suck MJ's dick. Shut up.

[Mr Exlax]

it's weird that Mr Exlax is still trying hard to convince everyone he is some unbiased basketball fan who happens to like Lebron. All his posts I have seen has to do with either propping up lebron or disgracing MJ and Kobe.

:oldlol:

You go show me 1 time where I've disgraced MJ or Kobe. Sure, they have flaws, but so does every other player to ever play in the NBA. Or are you saying because I don't peform sexual acts on them like the posters on here that's disgracing them? The only players I'll say I'm slightly biased for play for the Houston Rockets or Indiana Pacers. Do I like LeBron? For sure. Who wouldn't. If he died today though, shit happens.

[SamuraiSWISH]

it's weird that Mr Exlax is still trying hard to convince everyone he is some unbiased basketball fan who happens to like Lebron. All his posts I have seen has to do with either propping up lebron or disgracing MJ and Kobe.

:oldlol:
I haven't seen him talk Rockets: Hakeem, Sampson, Francis, Yao, Mobley, Drexler, Maxwell, Horry, Harden, Lin, Thorpe, Kenny Smith even once. All it is all day ... LeBron. He's admitted it before he's essentially the guy's stan. Propping up LeBron, disgracing any and everyone not names James. I thought he was an RG account, with a wannabe ghetto exterior to make his pathetic number of alts seem lower.

[NumberSix]

You are the biggest ****ing Jordan Stan there is. You are the most biased Jordan **** sucker there is. You shouldn't be saying anything as you have nothing to say but suck MJ's dick. Shut up.
Co-sign.

[Legends66NBA7]

You go show me 1 time where I've disgraced MJ or Kobe.

Don't bother with him.

[Mr Exlax]

:oldlol:


:oldlol:

Grown ass man using emoticons smh. I blame your father or whomever was your father figure.

[Mr Exlax]

I haven't seen him talk Rockets: Hakeem, Sampson, Francis, Yao, Mobley, Drexler, Maxwell, Horry, Harden, Lin, Thorpe, Kenny Smith even once. All it is all day ... LeBron. He's admitted it before he's essentially the guy's stan. Propping up LeBron, disgracing any and everyone not names James. I thought he was an RG account, with a wannabe ghetto exterior to make his pathetic number of alts seem lower.

When do you see me start threads though bro? I comment on things that are on the first two pages. YOU brought up LeBron in this one. YOU brought up I think Kobe in this one. You got LBJ on your mind. You named some Rockets greats that I know for a fact 5 people on this message board are gonna know about. Why would I bring them up? WHO IS RG? My initials are CJ.

[SamuraiSWISH]

You are the biggest ****ing Jordan Stan there is. You are the most biased Jordan **** sucker there is. You shouldn't be saying anything as you have nothing to say but suck MJ's dick. Shut up.
Says the man who would let Pippen and Ray Allen paint your face with their nut

Your clown ass props up Pippen to absurd levels. The guy who couldn't even get the Bulls past the 2nd round (or abover .500 in '95) due to his inability to score a high volume and shot create in the half court.

An ability he lacked, which is why PJax called final shot orders for Kukoc once MJ was gone. Pippen in all his cowardly glory sat out pouting in the final moments of a playoff game because he was asked to be a decoy ... like a selfish little hoe.

MJ deserves all the praise he gets, none of it undeservingly either. What have I said that isn't true of MJ or is an out right exaggeration? Nothing.

[NumberSix]

Says the man who would let Pippen and Ray Allen paint your face with their nut

Your clown ass props up Pippen to absurd levels. The guy who couldn't even get the Bulls past the 2nd round (or abover .500 in '95) due to his inability to score a high volume and shot create in the half court.

An ability he lacked, which is why PJax called final shot orders for Kukoc once MJ was gone. Pippen in all his cowardly glory sat out pouting in the final moments of a playoff game because he was asked to be a decoy ... like a selfish little hoe.

MJ deserves all the praise he gets, none of it undeservingly either. What have I said that isn't true of MJ or is an out right exaggeration? Nothing.
You're a creationist.

[SamuraiSWISH]

My initials are CJ.
Ok, so you're not RG. You still can't hoop or talk ball for shit CJ.

[Mr Exlax]

Ok, so you're not RG. You still can't hoop or talk ball for shit CJ.

Can't hoop lmao? Sure buddy. Even after the back surgery I can do some damage out there. I can't talk it with stans bro. Yall don't think logically.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Grown ass man using emoticons smh. I blame your father or whomever was your father figure.
CJ, didn't you just throw a hissy fit in response to a post about basketball? Filled to the brim with curse words? Go sit in the corner, get away from the keyboard, and gather yourself.

[Legends66NBA7]

Can't hoop lmao? Sure buddy. Even after the back surgery I can do some damage out there. I can't talk it with stans bro. Yall don't think logically.

But I thought you said this was a subjective thread ?

If it's logic and objectivity, Jordan has this and I'm not a stan of Jordan. Infact, some posters here think I'm against Jordan because of his stans.

[juju151111]

Mj was voted best defender in by coaches 93 when Pipp was in his defensive prime.

[NumberSix]

Mj was voted best defender in by coaches 93 when Pipp was in his defensive prime.
Marc Gasol and Tyson Chander won DPOY the past 2 years. Sometimes they get shit wrong.

[juju151111]

Marc Gasol and Tyson Chander won DPOY the past 2 years. Sometimes they get shit wrong.
Those are great defenders and led good defensive teams. The FACT is Mj was voted by coaches has the best defender in 93 and what was wrong 88-93 Mj was great defensively.

[Mr Exlax]

CJ, didn't you just throw a hissy fit in response to a post about basketball? Filled to the brim with curse words? Go sit in the corner, get away from the keyboard, and gather yourself.

Bro I use curse words in damn near every post. The two that they decided to censor were used twice each. That's a hissyfit? Kids these days smh. When you wanna talk hoops, holler at me.

[Solefade]

You are the biggest ****ing Jordan Stan there is. You are the most biased Jordan **** sucker there is. You shouldn't be saying anything as you have nothing to say but suck MJ's dick. Shut up.


LOL DAAAAAMNNNNNNN

[Mr Exlax]

But I thought you said this was a subjective thread ?

If it's logic and objectivity, Jordan has this and I'm not a stan of Jordan. Infact, some posters here think I'm against Jordan because of his stans.

He wasn't talking about this thread. He was talking hoops in general.

If he thinks MJ is better, I can't say he's wrong. It's his opinion.

[thabisyo]

You are the biggest ****ing Jordan Stan there is. You are the most biased Jordan **** sucker there is. You shouldn't be saying anything as you have nothing to say but suck MJ's dick. Shut up.

:( Damn

[Smoke117]

Says the man who would let Pippen and Ray Allen paint your face with their nut

Your clown ass props up Pippen to absurd levels. The guy who couldn't even get the Bulls past the 2nd round (or abover .500 in '95) due to his inability to score a high volume and shot create in the half court.

An ability he lacked, which is why PJax called final shot orders for Kukoc once MJ was gone. Pippen in all his cowardly glory sat out pouting in the final moments of a playoff game because he was asked to be a decoy ... like a selfish little hoe.

MJ deserves all the praise he gets, none of it undeservingly either. What have I said that isn't true of MJ or is an out right exaggeration? Nothing.

Actually the reason Phil went to Toni Kukoc is the fact that every single Knicks player was going to go to Pippen. Scottie disrespected his team, but he made a huge clutch shot just before that. He was the superstar of the team and felt he deserved that shot. He made a a selfish mistake at that moment, but Pippen was pretty much considered the most unselfish, best teammate by all his teammates. Toni Kukoc even said himself later on that Scottie was a great teammate and he'd rather play with him than Jordan.

[97 bulls]

Pippen probably by a hair, though it seemed like guys like Penny Hardaway and a younger Kobe Bryant had their way with Pippen, so he probably wasn't as good of an on the ball defender as MJ.

Jordan had to carry the burden for the Bulls offensively whereas Pippen could more or less pick his spots, so that makes a big difference when you are expending so much energy of offense already, to be a great defender also is remarkable.
I remember any instances where Pippens defensive assignment for the game was Bryant. As far as Hardaway.... I know youve posted this before. Its just not true. And I showed this to you. The only game where Hardaway had a big and efficient scoring night was the game where the Bulls beat the Magic by 30 in game 1 of the ecf in 96. Did he shut Hardaway down? No. But its not an argument to be used as a negative in regard to Pippens man defense abilities.

Im just curious to know why do you keep regurgitating this after being shown it to be an error.

[andgar923]

MJ fans give props to Pip as they are deserved.

The problem is, in an attempt to take away from MJ they prop up Pip to a higher level than what he is. So what ends up happening is, once people speak out against that we are perceived as 'hating' him or devaluating him, when in reality we're just trying to debunk the hype to reality.

Pip is one of the best defenders PERIOD.

And is one of the top 5 best perimeters of all time.

He is one of the most versatile defenders ever.

Unfortuantely for him, MJ was on his team (or I guess fortunately for him).



A poster brought up a point that is ALWAYS overlooked when dealing with MJ.

The opposing team purposely tried to wear out MJ and punish him more than anybody. They ran him though multiple screens, hit him at any chance possible, and basically tried to get him tired to take away from his offense. That doesn't happen as much in today's era since most teams don't run plays, it's mostly one on one, little cutting or movement.

So not only did MJ have to carry the bulk of the offensive load, he had to play tough defense. Mj actually stated that he chose to rest games during 'offense' not defense. He found plays to get some rest offensively because he simply couldn't afford to defensively.

The reason I take MJ >>> Pip was a defender….

You knew he was gonna make the big play defensively more often than Pip.

We can count in one hand the big game winning or game changing defensive plays Pip's made in his career.

Meanwhile we can make an entire thread's worth of moments in which MJ's defense won them games, or changed the game's momentum, some of which have been tattooed into your memory banks. Pip one or two (the block to save the game on Smith… that's the only one that stands out for now).

To save my life I'll take MJ to play defense for me.

[jstern]

Barkley: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u69SCU79_O0&t=46

People are not saying that Pippen wasn't one of the greatest defenders ever, the problem is that Jordan's defense has become underrated due to the agenda of fans of newer players.

[thabisyo]

Barkley: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u69SCU79_O0&t=46

People are not saying that Pippen wasn't one of the greatest defenders ever, the problem is that Jordan's defense has become underrated due to the agenda of fans of newer players.

Actually overrated thanks to overrating the 90s basketball :biggums:

[andgar923]

Barkley: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u69SCU79_O0&t=46

People are not saying that Pippen wasn't one of the greatest defenders ever, the problem is that Jordan's defense has become underrated due to the agenda of fans of newer players.

And it all goes back to UNC

[deja vu]

Who is that coach (not Phil) who said that MJ and Pippen are both great defenders but MJ was better in shutting down people? I'm not sure it's a coach, but I remember that it's a respected basketball figure. I've read about it before but I couldn't find it on Google. I think it's from a book or something.

[andgar923]

Who is that coach (not Phil) who said that MJ and Pippen are both great defenders but MJ was better in shutting down people? I'm not sure it's a coach, but I remember that it's a respected basketball figure. I've read about it before but I couldn't find it on Google. I think it's from a book or something.

Bulls/Lakers assistant coach Johnny Bach.

[97 bulls]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by andgar923

We can count in one hand the big game winning or game changing defensive plays Pip's made in his career.*Meanwhile we can make an entire thread's worth of moments in which MJ's defense won them games, or changed the game's momentum, some of which have been tattooed into your memory banks. Pip one or two (the block to save the game on Smith

[andgar923]

How many memorable defensive games did Jordan have? Hell how many memorable defensive plays did Jordan have?
:facepalm

really?

More than Pip I know that.

[thabisyo]

:facepalm

really?

More than Pip I know that.

:lol

That like saying Blake griffin dunks all the time just cause all you ever see are his highlights. Pippen highlights are never played :facepalm

[andgar923]

:lol

That like saying Blake griffin dunks all the time just cause all you ever see are his highlights. Pippen highlights are never played :facepalm

That's true to some extent.

I agree that we may remember MJ's plays more because they play his highlights more, but don't you think there's a reason for that?

Could it be perhaps that MJ's defensive moments are more memorable because well

[97 bulls]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRFKhpMKX0Ehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0vwJlvB-Pohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4fTjcJwImw
That's true to some extent.

I agree that we may remember MJ's plays more because they play his highlights more, but don't you think there's a reason for that?

Could it be perhaps that MJ's defensive moments are more memorable because well… they happen to be in critical moments?

We all know Pip's blocks vs Smith.

Do you not think that if Pip had more of those moments we wouldn't see them more often? Shit… we get to see the infamous "they put Pippen on Magic because he's a little be taller" clip all the time. But reality states MJ guarded Magic 90% of the time. So it isn't as tho history is only trying to favor Mj and discredit Pip.

I'm sure Pip has more than just that moment, that simply was the only one that came to mind at the moment worth noting.
Ok. But please name a couple From Jordan. Something's along the lines of the vids listed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRFKhpMKX0E


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0vwJlvB-Po


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4fTjcJwImw

[97 bulls]

Ill even start. There was Jordan locking down Rod Strickland In 97. And Jordan stealing the ball vs Karl Malone in 98.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Hell how many memorable defensive plays did Jordan have?

Are you crazy? Jordan had way more memorable (and clutch/timely) defensive plays than Pippen.

[97 bulls]

Are you crazy? Jordan had way more memorable (and clutch/timely) defensive plays than Pippen.
Then name some. Damn.

[97 bulls]

I can think of five off the top from Pippen.

His defense on Magic in game 2 of 91'

His blocks on Charles Smith in 93

The Job he did on Mark Jackson in 98

His game saving steal vs the Jazz in 97

His defensive job on the Jazz in 98 game 3

[pauk]

Essentially the same skill/talent/iq wise defensively.... but Pippen could also shut down any other position as he had the extra size & wingspan.... overall i am leaning slightly towards Scottie Pippen....

[Jacks3]

Jordan's defense was so great his team got better after he left and got worse when he came back. :bowdown:

[KOBE143]

Obviously its Pippen.. Only Jordan homer would choose MJ over Pippen.. Pippen is probably the GOAT perimeter defender.. His defense is comparable to center.. He was the anchor of their team defense.. Its a shame that he never won DPOY award.. Jordan was very lucky to have Pippen.. Theres no doubt in my mind that any superstars could win a championship with Pippen as their 2nd option with the exception of LeBron James.. I think even Pippen as the man could win at least 2 rings.. Pippen is a top 10 most talented player of all time.. :bowdown:

[Odinn]

Defensively;
1st 3peat Jordan > 2nd 3peat Pippen > 1st 3peat Pippen > 2nd 3peat Jordan

[andgar923]

I can think of five off the top from Pippen.

His defense on Magic in game 2 of 91'

His blocks on Charles Smith in 93

The Job he did on Mark Jackson in 98

His game saving steal vs the Jazz in 97

His defensive job on the Jazz in 98 game 3
:lol

You're trying really hard here aren't you.


Off the top:

His defense on Clyde for an entire series
His steal and dunk vs the Blazers when "Superman's back in the building!!"
His game clinching steal and dunk on Kittles vs the Nets
His steal and chase down and strip against the Knicks
His momentum changing steal then save then and 1 vs the Pistons in the 80s

And those are just a few of the top of my head. There's many many more that I'm sure I'm missing. And those are also just playoff moments that were crucial, not just plays during games or game winning steals or blocks during regular season.

Oh yeah

[97 bulls]

[QUOTE=andgar923]:lol

You're trying really hard here aren't you.


Off the top:

His defense on Clyde for an entire series
His steal and dunk vs the Blazers when "Superman's back in the building!!"
His game clinching steal and dunk on Kittles vs the Nets
His steal and chase down and strip against the Knicks
His momentum changing steal then save then and 1 vs the Pistons in the 80s

And those are just a few of the top of my head. There's many many more that I'm sure I'm missing. And those are also just playoff moments that were crucial, not just plays during games or game winning steals or blocks during regular season.

Oh yeah

[SamuraiSWISH]

Defensively;
1st 3peat Jordan > 2nd 3peat Pippen > 1st 3peat Pippen > 2nd 3peat Jordan
No bias, pure truth. Agree with everything, this is the ACTUALITY on Pippen. But that must mean I'm "hating" on Pippen in order to prop up Jordan (as if he needs my help, he propped himself up with his play) ...

[Smoke117]

Defensively;
1st 3peat Jordan > 2nd 3peat Pippen > 1st 3peat Pippen > 2nd 3peat Jordan

That's why Pippen led the playoffs in drating in 91 and had 1.7 defensive winshares to Jordans 1.5...because Jordan was a better defender during the first threepeat. :rolleyes:

[Young X]

Jordan's defense was so great his team got better after he left and got worse when he came back. :bowdown:This is a dumb argument considering the Bulls defense was better in '98 without Pippen then it was in '97 with Pippen. I guess Pippen's defense wasn't great either then.

[Smoke117]

This is a dumb argument considering the Bulls defense was better in '98 without Pippen then it was in '97 with Pippen. I guess Pippen's defense wasn't great either then.

That is the most absurd thing I've ever read. Pippen completely destroyed the Jazz before he hurt his back in game 5. They would have lost that series if not for his defensive dominance.

[Legends66NBA7]

I like how both camps for Pippen and Jordan are stating the other side is reaching/stanning their guy.

:oldlol:

[Doranku]

It's pointless arguing about Jordan on ISH. ISH has Jordan stans that put Kobe/LeBron stans to shame. Jordan is literally their Jesus figure and I honestly wouldn't doubt if they truly believed he could walk on water.

Make a thread about who would be the better center, Kareem or Jordan, and I guarantee andgar, Loki, Swoosh, etc. would be in there making arguments for Jordan. :oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

It's pointless arguing about Jordan on ISH. ISH has Jordan stans that put Kobe/LeBron stans to shame. Jordan is literally their Jesus figure and I honestly wouldn't doubt if they truly believed he could walk on water.

Actually, it's Kobe stans who made the "How great is out god" songs and called him "gawdbe" and all the other vicarious living terms... followed not to far by LeBron stans. It's actually they who think their boys are Jesus figures.


Make a thread about who would be the better center, Kareem or Jordan, and I guarantee andgar, Loki, Swoosh, etc. would be in there making arguments for Jordan. :oldlol:

And you got Kennethgriffin, 9erempire agreeing that Kobe was the best PG in the 00's. pauk thinking it's not even close in terms of passing for James over Bird.

[Odinn]

That's why Pippen led the playoffs in drating in 91 and had 1.7 defensive winshares to Jordans 1.5...because Jordan was a better defender during the first threepeat. :rolleyes:
Defensive win shares?:roll: :roll:
Great argument.:roll: :roll:

[Legends66NBA7]

Defensive win shares?:roll: :roll:
Great argument.:roll: :roll:

And D Rating too. Like, really ? That's a team stat. There's an actual article on what happened to the matchups that breaks down Jordan had tougher assignments, albeit still close.

[Odinn]

Make a thread about who would be the better center, Kareem or Jordan, and I guarantee andgar, Loki, Swoosh, etc. would be in there making arguments for Jordan. :oldlol:
Younger fellas, mostly Kobe and LeBron stans, haven't seen much of Jordan and his main competitors for the goat title, and they think 'how can the level of play be higher than this?'.

Kobe stans and LeBron stans are worse than the people that claim Jordan is the undisputed GOAT. I still haven't seen a LeBron or Kobe stan that can explain his guy's case against Kareem for that matter.

[Doranku]

Actually, it's Kobe stans who made the "How great is out god" songs and called him "gawdbe" and all the other vicarious living terms... followed not to far by LeBron stans. It's actually they who think their boys are Jesus figures.



And you got Kennethgriffin, 9erempire agreeing that Kobe was the best PG in the 00's. pauk thinking it's not even close in terms of passing for James over Bird.

You think "Gawdbe" and that song are serious? It's clearly all a big joke.

Jordan stans, however, are a different story. Andgar said in complete sincerity that he believes MJ could drop 50 points in today's NBA @ 50 years old...

I mean, just look at the way these guys talk about Jordan. It's eerily reminiscent of a young child describing his favorite superhero. Scary, strange stuff.

[Doranku]

Younger fellas, mostly Kobe and LeBron stans, haven't seen much of Jordan and his main competitors for the goat title, and they think 'how can the level of play be higher than this?'.

Kobe stans and LeBron stans are worse than the people that claim Jordan is the undisputed GOAT. I still haven't seen a LeBron or Kobe stan that can explain his guy's case against Kareem for that matter.

...Huh? That's because neither of these guys have a case over Kareem... what are you even talking about? :oldlol:

[Odinn]

...Huh? That's because neither of these guys have a case over Kareem... what are you even talking about? :oldlol:
Yeah. I know that.:oldlol:

What I was saying is Kobe and LeBron stans are obsessed with Jordan, too. Just like Jordan stans.
They are only trying to making up cases against Jordan. They do not know who had the real goat material. They think LeBron and Kobe has the material and this is sad.:oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

You think "Gawdbe" and that song are serious? It's clearly all a big joke.

Jordan stans, however, are a different story. Andgar said in complete sincerity that he believes MJ could drop 50 points in today's NBA @ 50 years old...

I mean, just look at the way these guys talk about Jordan. It's eerily reminiscent of a young child describing his favorite superhero. Scary, strange stuff.


My point is that all 3 fan bases are bad and exaggerate for their own player. You probably won't see the Kobe stuff that was thrown around in the late 00's-present from some crazed Kobe stans, since your a Kobe guy too. But they've exaggerated a lot too. It just can't be me who sees this. I see that in LeBron stans right now, by the way.

Yeah, I've disagreed all that nonsense by Jordan stans, I obviously am on your side about that (the 50 points @ age 50). But I don't see why Kobe stans won't make the same arguments in the future, what's there to stop them ? :confusedshrug:

The weirdest "stan" moment to me actually is this one crazed Kobe stan who followed Kobe to a wedding he wasn't invited to and took a picture of him in a bathroom. Now, that's scary strange stuff. I get the Jordan thing since I'll label it as "nostalgia".

[OldSchoolBBall]

Then name some. Damn.

From just one game in the 1998 postseason:

Game 1 vs. NJ, 1998 playoffs, 4th quarter tied at 89 with 20 seconds left: http://youtu.be/pbR7HD2Od48?t=7m32s

Same game now in OT, game tied 89-89 with 4:20 left: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfWDqGXXGoY#t=2m22s

Same game, OT, tied at 91 with 50 seconds left: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZquLVr3MeGk#t=0m48s


This is just one game with MJ at age 35, mind you. Also from the '98 playoffs vs. Charlotte, where MJ disrupted the Hornets offense, spoken of here (from the 30-60 second mark): http://youtu.be/wPOdVf18Js4?t=30s

Some more:

1998 ECF vs. Indiana, game 4, Bulls up 95-93 with 20 seconds left: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htSWwyrxUIA#t=6m34s (solid defense on Best, help on Miller and then Best again, and then a game-saving block)

The "Charles Smith blocked 3 times" play - what people forget is that Jordan played perfect defense on Starks to force the Knicks to a counter play, and then recovered to get into the lane and actually got the first strip/block on Smith under the basket, which gave Pippen/Grant time to get into position for some more blocks afterwards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wJ3HusQz6o#t=5m32s

Blocks Isiah to preserve a win in Detroit in '88: http://youtu.be/nY1Z202IN6g

Game-saving block on Miller in '92: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9hlKMYiu3k#t=0m7s

Game-saving strip of Sabonis and fastbreak jam in 1996: http://youtu.be/IOhiOQrMO2E?t=7m29s

,

[Young X]

That is the most absurd thing I've ever read. Pippen completely destroyed the Jazz before he hurt his back in game 5. They would have lost that series if not for his defensive dominance.Jacks3 questioned Jordans defense because the Bulls defense in '94 was statistically better than it was in '93, so I brought up the Bulls being better statistically defensively in '98 than they were in '97. What's absurd about that?

Why didn't you have a problem with his statement?

[andgar923]

From just one game in the 1998 postseason:

Game 1 vs. NJ, 1998 playoffs, 4th quarter tied at 89 with 20 seconds left: http://youtu.be/pbR7HD2Od48?t=7m32s

Same game now in OT, game tied 89-89 with 4:20 left: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfWDqGXXGoY#t=2m22s

Same game, OT, tied at 91 with 50 seconds left: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZquLVr3MeGk#t=0m48s


This is just one game with MJ at age 35, mind you. Also from the '98 playoffs vs. Charlotte, where MJ disrupted the Hornets offense, spoken of here (from the 30-60 second mark): http://youtu.be/wPOdVf18Js4?t=30s

Some more:

1998 ECF vs. Indiana, game 4, Bulls up 95-93 with 20 seconds left: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htSWwyrxUIA#t=6m34s (solid defense on Best, help on Miller and then Best again, and then a game-saving block)

The "Charles Smith blocked 3 times" play - what people forget is that Jordan played perfect defense on Starks to force the Knicks to a counter play, and then recovered to get into the lane and actually got the first strip/block on Smith under the basket, which gave Pippen/Grant time to get into position for some more blocks afterwards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wJ3HusQz6o#t=5m32s

Blocks Isiah to preserve a win in Detroit in '88: http://youtu.be/nY1Z202IN6g

Game-saving block on Miller in '92: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9hlKMYiu3k#t=0m7s

Game-saving strip of Sabonis and fastbreak jam in 1996: http://youtu.be/IOhiOQrMO2E?t=7m29s

,


B

[Marchesk]

The weirdest "stan" moment to me actually is this one crazed Kobe stan who followed Kobe to a wedding he wasn't invited to and took a picture of him in a bathroom. Now, that's scary strange stuff. I get the Jordan thing since I'll label it as "nostalgia".

Now that's real stanning for you. The stans on here are just pretenders. Or so we hope. There was that one thread about wanting to spend a day with Lebron at the beach and then something about alcohol in a hotel room. And then the one about Lebron's seed. :eek: And there was an obsession with how big Jordan's unit was. So some creepy stuff, but hopefully just troll material.

Bunch of wannabees.

[SamuraiSWISH]

The weirdest "stan" moment to me actually is this one crazed Kobe stan who followed Kobe to a wedding he wasn't invited to and took a picture of him in a bathroom. Now, that's scary strange stuff. I get the Jordan thing since I'll label it as "nostalgia".
Shame you never got to see Alborz (KB42PAH) actual pic of that ... sadly the flash from the photo blocked out his own face. But Kobe looks insanely creeped out in the picture. He literally followed Kobe into the pisser, at a wedding he had no business being at, asked to take a pic with the man as he was zipping his fly up. Ponder that for a hot second.

[97 bulls]

From just one game in the 1998 postseason:

Game 1 vs. NJ, 1998 playoffs, 4th quarter tied at 89 with 20 seconds left: http://youtu.be/pbR7HD2Od48?t=7m32s

Same game now in OT, game tied 89-89 with 4:20 left: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfWDqGXXGoY#t=2m22s

Same game, OT, tied at 91 with 50 seconds left: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZquLVr3MeGk#t=0m48s


This is just one game with MJ at age 35, mind you. Also from the '98 playoffs vs. Charlotte, where MJ disrupted the Hornets offense, spoken of here (from the 30-60 second mark): http://youtu.be/wPOdVf18Js4?t=30s

Some more:

1998 ECF vs. Indiana, game 4, Bulls up 95-93 with 20 seconds left: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htSWwyrxUIA#t=6m34s (solid defense on Best, help on Miller and then Best again, and then a game-saving block)

The "Charles Smith blocked 3 times" play - what people forget is that Jordan played perfect defense on Starks to force the Knicks to a counter play, and then recovered to get into the lane and actually got the first strip/block on Smith under the basket, which gave Pippen/Grant time to get into position for some more blocks afterwards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wJ3HusQz6o#t=5m32s

Blocks Isiah to preserve a win in Detroit in '88: http://youtu.be/nY1Z202IN6g

Game-saving block on Miller in '92: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9hlKMYiu3k#t=0m7s

Game-saving strip of Sabonis and fastbreak jam in 1996: http://youtu.be/IOhiOQrMO2E?t=7m29s

,
Interesting clips. Whats even more interesting, is that Pippen made just as many big plays defensively as Jordan. Mind you in the clip you posted. Whats more. You see Pip guarding 6"11 Chris Gatling in the post and really not allow him to get position. In another clip, Pippen is guarding Glen Rice and shutting him down.

Im not implying Jordan wasnt wasn't a great defender. But hes not on Pippens level. Even in the clips you posted Pippen made just as many game saving blocks and steals.

[97 bulls]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SGe-vp_l8U

This is a clip of a game the Bulls had vs the Suns in 95. Notice who the staring bigs were. Dickey Simpkins and Greg Foster. Barkley was eating them alive. Then Pippen takes him and shuts him down. Along with scoring 35/9/6/5/2 on 13-18 shooting. So to sum it up, a statline like that and shut down defense on Charles Barkley. He was 3-9 with Pippen on him. And he had to run the offense.

Whats more, is in that 95 season, Pippen led the league in steals, defensive rating, avg a block, anchored the number 2 defense in the league, and avgd a block per game.

Jordan was a great defender , Pippen was better

[thabisyo]

Pippens defense. Only if he was still playing today :bowdown:

This guy deserve DPOY atleast once

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9vFHYVXtRk

[OldSchoolBBall]

Im not implying Jordan wasnt wasn't a great defender. But hes not on Pippens level. Even in the clips you posted Pippen made just as many game saving blocks and steals.

The ****? :oldlol: :biggums:

[Kblaze8855]

people have this notion that Pip always played the best player, he always made all the big plays defensively, that MJ just coasted defensively and didn't play defense


Please...

MJs defense gets more praise than any all time great short of Bill Russell.

[thabisyo]

Please...

MJs defense gets more praise than any all time great short of Bill Russell.

This.
His defense has reached legendary status and any one that questions his rank is obliterated. He was a defensive all time great but Pippen may have been better

[juju151111]

This.
His defense has reached legendary status and any one that questions his rank is obliterated. He was a defensive all time great but Pippen may have been better
They are about equal.

[andgar923]

Please...

MJs defense gets more praise than any all time great short of Bill Russell.
It was meant to be taken figuratively not literally. There are posters that basically hint at it from time to time we all know who they are.

[thabisyo]

It was meant to be taken figuratively not literally. There are posters that basically hint at it from time to time we all know who they are.

That makes no sense since Jordan does get more praise than any one

[Sarcastic]

Lebron's defense is way more overrated than Jordan's. There's people that actually believe and say that he could guard all 5 positions on the court. :lol

[thabisyo]

Lebron's defense is way more overrated than Jordan's. There's people that actually believe and say that he could guard all 5 positions on the court. :lol

He can guard Bosh effectively :banana: