LeBron vs. Messi

[deja vu]

Who's the better athlete?

Who's more popular?

[SpanishACB]

Who's more popular?

Messi, it's not even a contest :banghead:

[Unbiased_one]

Who's the better athlete?

Who's more popular?

Globally, messi is the better athlete (in his sport) and more popular athlete (although Ronaldo is the most popular football player globally).

In America, Lebron is more popular. Lebron is obviously better as an all round athlete...messi probably wouldn't be good at many other sports.

[K Xerxes]

Messi has a better chance of going down as the GOAT in his sport than LeBron does, given his supreme club football dominance.

Globally, Messi is obviously more popular.

Not sure what you mean by athlete - Lebron is quite the superior physical specimen, but Messi is shattering more records and racking up more achievements. All he has left to accomplish is the international level.

[branslowski]

Messi....Only NBA player with nearly the global popularity is Kobe Bryant and Yao.

[Mr Know It All]

Better raw athlete is obviously Lebron and it's not even really a contest.

As for being more popular, Messi is the best and most popular in far and away the most popular sport in the world. Again, not a contest.

[Trollsmasher]

For the HGH users?

Messi

Also Messi is not the most popular football player or has any chance of becoming the GOAT as some claim here.

[CeltsGarlic]

I dont like the way cristiano went. Looks like jersey shore dbag.

[K Xerxes]

For the HGH users?

Messi

Also Messi is not the most popular football player or has any chance of becoming the GOAT as some claim here.

Ronaldo is arguably more popular, but Messi hasn't got a chance of becoming GOAT? :oldlol:

He's arguably achieved more on the club stage than any player in history has in their entire career, and the dude just turned 26. :facepalm The only thing he has left to prove is on the international stage, but many people have already made his case for GOAT.

6 La Liga, 3 Champions League, 4 consecutive Ballon d'Or... and much more... Come on dude.

[Unbiased_one]

For the HGH users?

Messi

Also Messi is not the most popular football player or has any chance of becoming the GOAT as some claim here.

Messi is not the most popular player in the world. That I agree with. But the first google result for a goat poll in football gives this:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/poll/2012/mar/08/lionel-messi-greatest-footballer-all-time

57% think he's the goat. More than just 'some here'. Give me one poll saying lebron has even 5% of the vote. That was in march 2012. At 25, he got over half the vote. Part of that is recency bias, but are you being serious?

[SpanishACB]

Messi is more popular than C. Ronaldo.
It's not even close when you account for south america, middle east and asia.

Just because Ronaldo is on a tour in the states and he gets some crowd doesn't really change that fact.

It's just you guys are being sold an idea and you're not checking any sources, just take it willingly like you take most media.

[Unbiased_one]

Messi is more popular than C. Ronaldo.
It's not even close when you account for south america, middle east and asia.

Just because Ronaldo is on a tour in the states and he gets some crowd doesn't really change that fact.

It's just you guys are being sold an idea and you're not checking any sources, just take it willingly like you take most media.

I think you'd be surprised. Ronaldo played for Madrid and united the two biggest clubs in the world.

[deja vu]

C'mon guys let's stay on topic. Let's not bring in other football players here. :roll:

[Trollsmasher]

Messi is more popular than C. Ronaldo.
It's not even close when you account for south america, middle east and asia.

Just because Ronaldo is on a tour in the states and he gets some crowd doesn't really change that fact.

It's just you guys are being sold an idea and you're not checking any sources, just take it willingly like you take most media.
Ronaldo is popular in those places too. He played for the two most popular clubs in the world after all.

Messi is hated even in Argentina, why the hell would he be popular in the countries of their rivals? Neymar is more popular in SA.

You are just making up stuff without any sources.

[Unbiased_one]

C'mon guys let's stay on topic. Let's not bring in other football players here. :roll:

All you need to know is this: messi is considered by a large portion of the population to be the GOAT in the biggest sport in the world. Lebron is considered by most to be somewhere in 8-11 range in a very popular, but not close to football, sport.

[Unbiased_one]

....

http://www.theguardian.com/football/poll/2012/mar/08/lionel-messi-greatest-footballer-all-time

Respond.

[Trollsmasher]

Messi is not the most popular player in the world. That I agree with. But the first google result for a goat poll in football gives this:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/poll/2012/mar/08/lionel-messi-greatest-footballer-all-time

57% think he's the goat. More than just 'some here'. Give me one poll saying lebron has even 5% of the vote. That was in march 2012. At 25, he got over half the vote. Part of that is recency bias, but are you being serious?
You can't name the GOAT in football. The positions are too different and uncomparable.

Who is better?
Schmeichel or Messi?
Beckenbauer or Ronaldo?

...

[bukowski81]

Ronaldo is popular in those places too. He played for the two most popular clubs in the world after all.

Messi is hated even in Argentina, why the hell would he be popular in the countries of their rivals? Neymar is more popular in SA.

You are just making up stuff without any sources.

Messi is more popular than Ronaldo and is not even close.

Madrid is historically the most popular club but this version is Barcelona is more popular. This Barcelona is arguably the best football team in history.

[LosScandalous]

http://i.imgur.com/GIKZeWT.jpg


I'm not even a LeBron fan at all but really? How is this manlet a better athelte than LeBron?????

[Unbiased_one]

You can't name the GOAT in football. The positions are too different and uncomparable.

Who is better?
Schmeichel or Messi?
Beckenbauer or Ronaldo?

...

I agree on the Gk front...but we can compare the rest (just like in basketball). It's worth noting that in the modern game positions are beginning to blend together. Almost all top teams employ forward rotations and have technically proficient defenders who get forward a lot, as well as nominal positions...the formation has become much less prevalent on the attacking end. (it's a bit like how the NBA is developing).

[deja vu]

http://i.imgur.com/GIKZeWT.jpg


I'm not even a LeBron fan at all but really? How is this manlet a better athelte than LeBron?????
You're confusing "athlete" and "athletic" :lol

[Trollsmasher]

Messi is more popular than Ronaldo and is not even close.

Madrid is historically the most popular club but this version is Barcelona is more popular. This Barcelona is arguably the best football team in history.
How is it not even close? Give me some stats or articles... You saying it does not make it a fact.

[Fresh Kid]

messi.

[Unbiased_one]

http://i.imgur.com/GIKZeWT.jpg


I'm not even a LeBron fan at all but really? How is this manlet a better athelte than LeBron?????

Go find a recent compilation of Messi's best goals.

Or just watch the 91 goals in 2012 video.

[Unbiased_one]

How is it not even close? Give me some stats or articles... You saying it does not make it a fact.

I don't agree with him at all. Real Madrid is the more popular club, and I'm pretty sure it always has been.

[LosScandalous]

Go find a recent compilation of Messi's best goals.

LeBron > Messi

[K Xerxes]

I'm not even a LeBron fan at all but really? How is this manlet a better athelte than LeBron?????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-j4qP9vtyE

Just a few months ago.

[Shade8780]

Messi for both, unless you're talking about athleticism for athlete.

[deja vu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-j4qP9vtyE

Just a few months ago.
Also this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vmm-xCq4To

[Trollsmasher]

I agree on the Gk front...but we can compare the rest (just like in basketball). It's worth noting that in the modern game positions are beginning to blend together. Almost all top teams employ forward rotations and have technically proficient defenders who get forward a lot, as well as nominal positions...the formation has become much less prevalent on the attacking end. (it's a bit like how the NBA is developing).
You just can't compare defensive and offensive positions in football, even with offensive defenders.

People want to see goals. Forwards score goals, defenders for the most part don't.

That is why the last goalkeeper to win GB is Lev Yashin. That is why a defender wins GB about once in ten years. That's why on that pool list of yours there was only one defensive player.

Football is a game based on defense. That's why 1-0 is the "most regular" football score. But people ignore that, because they want to see offense and so they ignore defensive players, because defensive play and work is not eye appealing.

That is also why Jordan is the GOAT and not Russell. If Russell was known for his offense instead of his defense and won all those titles with his offense, nobody would say a thing against him being the GOAT.

[Unbiased_one]

You just can't compare defensive and offensive positions in football, even with offensive defenders.

People want to see goals. Forwards score goals, defenders for the most part don't.

That is why there the last goalkeeper to win GB is Lev Yashin. That is why a defender wins GB about once in ten years. That's why on that pool list of yours there war only one defensive player.

Football is a game based on defense. That's why 1-0 is the most regular football score. But people ignore that, because they want to see offense and so they ignore defensive players, because defensive play and work is not eye appealing.

That is also why Jordan is the GOAT and not Russell. If Russell was known for his offense instead of his defense and won all those titles with his offense, nobody would say a thing against him being the GOAT.

To some extent I agree. However, it's similar to basketball. One great player can't change a defense, but one great player can change an offense (although it is more extreme in basketball). If Chelsea could swap Torres for messi or ronaldo last season they were probably the best team in Europe. But if psg (a great attacking but poor defensive team) swapped van der wiel for Lahm it probably wouldn't have made them radically better. Great attackers make a bigger difference.

I actually played right back as a semi pro in my teens and I obviously never got enough credit. ;)

[secund2nun]

Lebron is better, but Messi is more popular world wide because soccer is more popular.

[SpanishACB]

I think you'd be surprised. Ronaldo played for Madrid and united the two biggest clubs in the world.

I live in Spain. I understand things take a while to get there when it gets to soccer but there's no excuse when it's your country giving out these kind of awards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrN3drOTA5A

Barcelona has surpassed those two teams in recent years in popularity and this has clearly helped Messi. Either wait, there's no contest.

I mean, the real Ronaldo is probably more famous himself in southamerica than this current cheap copy that is Cristiano.

[fragokota]

You're confusing "athlete" and "athletic" :lol

:lol :lol :lol

[TylerOO]

lol soccer. :facepalm

[SpanishACB]

lol soccer. :facepalm


http://www.milannews.pl/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/kobe_01_MGbig.jpg

problem?

[DaSeba5]

I would say LeBron is more athletic, but Messi is obviously the more popular player considering soccer is the biggest sport in the world.

[fragokota]

Puskas, Di Steffano, Pele, Eusebio, Beckenbauer, Best, Cruyff, Maradona, Platini, Zidane, Ronaldo(the brazilian) are probably the only players in football history that can be called Legends of the sport.

Messi is already ahead most of them and theoretically hasn't reached his peak yet as he is only 26....So to answer your question, no matter how good Lebron is, Messi is the better player at his sport and of course the most popular of the two worlwide

[NattyPButter]

Majority of americans dont even know who Messi is.

[Unbiased_one]

I live in Spain. I understand things take a while to get there when it gets to soccer but there's no excuse when it's your country giving out these kind of awards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrN3drOTA5A

Barcelona has surpassed those two teams in recent years in popularity and this has clearly helped Messi. Either wait, there's no contest.

I mean, the real Ronaldo is probably more famous himself in southamerica than this current cheap copy that is Cristiano.

I think it's close, but if you go by things like Facebook and twitter Ronaldo is more popular. Messi is definitely the better player though.

[Unbiased_one]

Puskas, Di Steffano, Pele, Eusebio, Beckenbauer, Best, Cruyff, Maradona, Platini, Zidane, Ronaldo(the brazilian) are probably the only players in football history that can be called Legends of the sport.

Messi is already ahead most of them and theoretically hasn't reached his peak yet as he is only 26....So to answer your question, no matter how good Lebron is, Messi is the better player at his sport and of course the most popular of the two worlwide

Messi will never put up the kind of numbers he put up last year. Opposing teams are just too scared of him. He's kind of like prime shaq in the respect (probably the only way he's like shaq).

[HomieWeMajor]

In their respective sports Messi is better
Lebron is the better athlete(athletic ability)
Messi is more popular worldwide

[SpurrDurr]

Messi will prolly go down as the GOAT soccer player. Lebron will never be the GOAT basketball player.

Lebron is way more gifted as athlete but Messi is more skilled.

[TylerOO]

http://www.milannews.pl/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/kobe_01_MGbig.jpg

problem?

Kobe Bryant liking soccer is supposed to change my opinion? Yea....Right...:rolleyes:

[SpanishACB]

Kobe Bryant liking soccer is supposed to change my opinion? Yea....Right...:rolleyes:

I was more like hoping it would lure you the **** away from a thread that doesn't interest you but I guess common sense is too much to expect from someone like you.

[DuMa]

I always wonder what Messi can do on a non-stacked team. Oh wait, its called Argentina.

[fragokota]

Messi will never put up the kind of numbers he put up last year. Opposing teams are just too scared of him. He's kind of like prime shaq in the respect (probably the only way he's like shaq).

I agree about the estimate but i would hesitate to heavily bet against it either.the kid is out of this world

[Trollsmasher]

Puskas, Di Steffano, Pele, Eusebio, Beckenbauer, Best, Cruyff, Maradona, Platini, Zidane, Ronaldo(the brazilian) are probably the only players in football history that can be called Legends of the sport.

Messi is already ahead most of them and theoretically hasn't reached his peak yet as he is only 26....So to answer your question, no matter how good Lebron is, Messi is the better player at his sport and of course the most popular of the two worlwide
You are missing shit ton of football legends in this list.

Where is Yashin, Charlton, Sokrates, Garincha, Banks? I can go on and on. Messi still has to go above a lot of them in my opinion and some of them are uncomparable.

[Pointguard]

I don't know if because soccer is the more popular sport means he is more popular. When Maradona was the best in the sport, even more-so clearly than Messi, he definitely wasn't more popular than his contemporary Jordan. Basketball is way more an international sport now than it was in Jordan's day.

Pele was way above Messi and Maradona and Ali was considered the most popular in his day. So you really can't say. With so many players on the field its hard to stand alone and have a bigger than life persona. Its really hard to dominate in futbol. Same thing with baseball and American football. The less amount of players the easier to stand out. Hard to look super human with 20 other guys on the court.

[buddha]

Messi 48 million likes on facebook, LeBron James 15 million... Obviously Messi is more popular than James, but James is easily a better athlete.

[fragokota]

I don't know if because soccer is the more popular sport means he is more popular. When Maradona was the best in the sport, even more-so clearly than Messi, he definitely wasn't more popular than his contemporary Jordan. Basketball is way more an international sport now than it was in Jordan's day.

Pele was way above Messi and Maradona and Ali was considered the most popular in his day. So you really can't say. With so many players on the field its hard to stand alone and have a bigger than life persona. Its really hard to dominate in futbol. Same thing with baseball and American football. The less amount of players the easier to stand out. Hard to look super human with 20 other guys on the court.

True,but Jordan is the only athlete in all sports history (none excluded) that at some point became bigger than the sport it's self.Also he is amongst top 3 of all athletes of all sports.

[fragokota]

You are missing shit ton of football legends in this list.

Where is Yashin, Charlton, Sokrates, Garincha, Banks? I can go on and on. Messi still has to go above a lot of them in my opinion and some of them are uncomparable.

No i didn't.We are not talking great world class players here,we 're talking legends of the sport,players that changed it's history.Take a look at the names again at tell me honestly if Banks fits in that group...

[Unbiased_one]

True,but Jordan is the only athlete in all sports history (none excluded) that at some point became bigger than the sport it's self.Also he is amongst top 3 of all athletes of all sports.

Thorpe, Ruth, Gretzky, jahangir khan, bradman and Carl Lewis are all greater sportsmen (although you could leave off the last one for PEDs). All dominated major sports far more thoroughly than Jordan.

[SpanishACB]

You are missing shit ton of football legends in this list.

Where is Yashin, Charlton, Sokrates, Garincha, Banks? I can go on and on. Messi still has to go above a lot of them in my opinion and some of them are uncomparable.

Hahahah, you're either wearing nostalgia tinted glasses or trying too hard to sound lectured.

Messi has already surpassed all greats and is only comparable to Maradona (the best player ever up until Messi).

Pele was never better than Maradona he was just a bigger brand world wide and the first big ambassador of soccer in USA (hence you having such opinion)

Charlton, Banks, Socrates? They're legends yes, but light years away from Messi who already has two golden ball awards (the equivalent to world's MVP in soccer) and at his age he is set to achieve more than anyone else. Those names you mentioned aren't even close.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

Also Messi is not the most popular football player or has any chance of becoming the GOAT as some claim here.
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
He's 26? And is already among Pele and Maradona as considered the GOAT. Even if he loses some match time to Neymar, he still has another good 3~5 years of 30+ goals a year in all competitions, lots of which will be spectacular. Saying he isn't the GOAT now I can accept. Saying he has no chance is just f*cking retarded, sorry.


You just can't compare defensive and offensive positions in football, even with offensive defenders.

It's true. Why defenders rarely make top GOAT or just current player lists, no matter how great they are for their position. Any top 10 may be lucky to have a D, may have a GK. Any top 50 will probably have 10 Ds and a few GKs. Forwards and Midfielders just require more skill, precision, and ability.

edit:

I always wonder what Messi can do on a non-stacked team. Oh wait, its called Argentina.
Actually, Argentina does have a bunch of world-class players. And Messi tends to perform quite well for his country. Currently, Argentina are dominating WC qualification.

In 2010 WC, the team had a lot of questionable selections, particularly on defense. In the latest Copa America, they had a new coach. Plus, believe it or not, other national teams are actually pretty good... National team play is just way different than club play. Less team/coach/formation/tactics familiarity, world-class players on both sides, etc etc. 1 player isn't enough to carry a national team.

[alenleomessi]

even though lebron and messi have been the best in their sports for 4-5 years in a row.. im not sure if they are still more popular than kobe or cristiano

[fragokota]

Thorpe, Ruth, Gretzky, jahangir khan, bradman and Carl Lewis are all greater sportsmen (although you could leave off the last one for PEDs). All dominated major sports far more thoroughly than Jordan.

I didn't say they weren't. Jordan's fame and popularity was unmatched thoufh and it didn't had to do 100% with his dominance in his sport. He just at some point in his career became a sports ambassador all over the world,not only basketball.Maybe it had also to do with the explosion of global marketing and star promotion.

I'm european and basketball isn't the most popular sport here (soccer is)but my mother who has no knowledge of basketball whatsoever knows who Michael Jordan is.I'm pretty sure she doesn't know who Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo are though,even if soccer is more popular

[SpanishACB]

to add some perspective.

If Messi was a current era basketball player his stats would translate to something like:

45-50ppg

In this decade, scoring 30-40 goals a season put you amongst the greatest at any given time. Messi these last 4 years has scored 47, 53, 73, 60 whilst dishing more than 20 assists most years (playmakers like Xavi get that same amount or less). Dude scores more than one goal per game these lasts two years, 1,2 actually, it's not even human.


You go figure out his actual impact, specially considering that in this current era, like in basketball, everything is so specialized it's really hard to stand out.

I mean, the mere fact that he is the topic of a thread in an american NBA forum should be proof enough of his popularity.

[ClutchOver9000]

Messi = the GOAT?

No. Not until he can actually win something with his national team. As a matter of fact I'd like to see if he'd be able to replicate his greatness on an EPL team.

He's great but playing alongside Iniesta and Xavi your whole club career will def make you look better than you are.

[SpanishACB]

He's great but playing alongside Iniesta and Xavi your whole club career will def make you look better than you are.
it's funny because Xavi and Iniesta are never bored to claim the opposite.

But you're a biased EPL fan, I'm sure you think barcelona couldn't cut it on a cold night at Stoke's.

[Trollsmasher]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
He's 26? And is already among Pele and Maradona as considered the GOAT. Even if he loses some match time to Neymar, he still has another good 3~5 years of 30+ goals a year in all competitions, lots of which will be spectacular. Saying he isn't the GOAT now I can accept. Saying he has no chance is just f*cking retarded, sorry.
I say that because in my opinion there is no football GOAT and it can't be chosen due to the massive differencies between the positions that hold equal importance to the success of the team.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

it's funny because Xavi and Iniesta are never bored to claim the opposite.

But you're a biased EPL fan, I'm sure you think barcelona couldn't cut it on a cold night at Stoke's.
and like a typical EPL fan, he doesn't quite understand how national teams work. It isn't like the EPL, where only mercenary teams win league titles (Man U being the exception). You need chemistry, familiarity, balance, etc. It's more comparable to domestic cup competitions rather than league or european competitions, if even that.

[Pointguard]

True,but Jordan is the only athlete in all sports history (none excluded) that at some point became bigger than the sport it's self.Also he is amongst top 3 of all athletes of all sports.

Ali might be in the same company??? Pele too. Being that I knew about him before I really knew much about his sport. I agree Jordan had legendary status because it seemed like he could fly to go along with his dominance.

While I like Neymar's skill level and the way he plays, can somebody tell me the difference in Ronaldo and Messi's game?

[HomieWeMajor]

Pele is overated. He counts goals from kick-arounds in the park to his official record.

[ClutchOver9000]

and like a typical EPL fan, he doesn't quite understand how national teams work. It isn't like the EPL, where only mercenary teams win league titles (Man U being the exception). You need chemistry, familiarity, balance, etc. It's more comparable to domestic cup competitions rather than league or european competitions, if even that.

I hear you.

I was just playing devils advocate... :lol

I'm not an EPL fan BTW...

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

I hear you.

I was just playing devils advocate... :lol

I'm not an EPL fan BTW...
:cheers:

[jzek]

Soccer is the biggest sport on the planet so I'd have to say more ppl worldwide know who Messi is than LeBron. What I want to know is - who is richer?

[Nash]

What kind of question is this? Lebron way more athletic, Messi more popular.

[k0kakw0rld]

Messi has a better chance of going down as the GOAT in his sport than LeBron does, given his supreme club football dominance.

Globally, Messi is obviously more popular.

Not sure what you mean by athlete - Lebron is quite the superior physical specimen, but Messi is shattering more records and racking up more achievements. All he has left to accomplish is the international level.
LeBron only has DPOY to win if you wanna talk accomplishment. (probably going to happen this year.) 2 Gold medals, 2 Ships, 2 FMVPs, 4 MVPs, 2 ASMVPs.

Messi will never win a world cup. (Even with a stacked team like Argentina)

[Unbiased_one]

Ali might be in the same company??? Pele too. Being that I knew about him before I really knew much about his sport. I agree Jordan had legendary status because it seemed like he could fly to go along with his dominance.

While I like Neymar's skill level and the way he plays, can somebody tell me the difference in Ronaldo and Messi's game?

Ronaldo is a much more powerful and athletic player who relies a lot on pace and power to beat his man. He's never been the most accurate shooter or passer, though he's come on leaps and bounds in recent years.

Messi is a much more skilful player. He can do things that no-one else can. He sees angles. He understands space in a way that no other sportsmen does. He's one of the greatest pure finishers of all time (along with van nistelroouy and muller). He is in many ways the ultimate forward.

[Unbiased_one]

LeBron only has DPOY to win if you wanna talk accomplishment. (probably going to happen this year.) 2 Gold medals, 2 Ships, 2 FMVPs, 4 MVPs, 2 ASMVPs.

Messi will never win a world cup. (Even with a stacked team like Argentina)

Argentina have as good a chance as any. The World Cup is a very much lower standard than European football nowadays...all the players are tired and jaded after a long season.

What many people don't realise with pele is those brazil teams would have won the World Cup without him (and indeed they did in 62). The 1970 brazil team was arguably the best international side ever without him.

[Segatti]

LeBron only has DPOY to win if you wanna talk accomplishment. (probably going to happen this year.) 2 Gold medals, 2 Ships, 2 FMVPs, 4 MVPs, 2 ASMVPs.

Messi will never win a world cup. (Even with a stacked team like Argentina)
This is why comparing team accomplishments between two players is stupid. The equivalent of Lebron playing with the US team would be Messi playing with Spain. Any doubts he would win multiple championships there? And what if Lebron played for a good international team like Spain or France but had to face US, would he win a gold medal?

[pauk]

Messi is definitely more popular globally, football being not just more popular than basketball but the most popular sport in the world has something to do with that aswell.

[alenleomessi]

even if messi wins a world cup haters will find other areas to judge him.. for example the HGH injections he had as a kid... or never playing in the EPL ( though if he goes and plays there they will say he is not loyal he went because xavi/iniesta got old, or because he wanted money or whatever )... haters will always be haters no matter what...

look at lebron.. he won 2 titles.. is probably even more hated now

[SpanishACB]

Soccer is the biggest sport on the planet so I'd have to say more ppl worldwide know who Messi is than LeBron. What I want to know is - who is richer?

lebron has a bigger paycheck but much bigger taxes on his earnings.

messi owns his image right (he gets most of the money out of adverts and can negotiate with brands directly) whereas Lebron owes it to the NBA brand (someone correct me if this has changed recently).

So I'd say Messi overall although Lebron earns much more from his team (t75he highest paid soccer player is on around 15 million dollars a year but the biggest stars can easily make twice as much counting advertising)

[Trollsmasher]

Soccer is the biggest sport on the planet so I'd have to say more ppl worldwide know who Messi is than LeBron. What I want to know is - who is richer?
Probably Messi with his tax evading. I doubt LeBron is in organized crime.

If we talk about clean business, then LeBron.

lebron has a bigger paycheck but much bigger taxes on his earnings.

messi owns his image right (he gets most of the money out of adverts and can negotiate with brands directly) whereas Lebron owes it to the NBA brand (someone correct me if this has changed recently).

So I'd say Messi overall although Lebron earns much more from his team (t75he highest paid soccer player is on around 15 million dollars a year but the biggest stars can easily make twice as much counting advertising)
I thought Spain had something like 55% tax on the high earners like Messi?:biggums:

[Rondo]

For the HGH users?

Messi

Also Messi is not the most popular football player or has any chance of becoming the GOAT as some claim here.

So much crap in one post.

Messi had a hormone deficiency and would be dwarfed by Nate Robinson if it weren't for the necessary treatment. What's Wade's excuse? One guy grew in height, the other guy's jaw developed it's own zip code.

Also, he's quite possibly the greatest footballer of all time already. Unless you're one of those who believes that you need to win the World Cup to establish yourself as the greatest. European club football has overtook international football in that aspect. The competition is far greater and it's far more rigorous. The consistency he's shown over the last 6 years has been unbelievable. The only player's who can challenge him for being the best of all time are Maradona and Pele and if he keeps going like this then they don't stand a chance. Personally I think he's already overtook them.

LeBron's a far greater athlete. Possibly the greatest in the world. Messi's more popular given that he's the greatest player in the world's biggest sport playing for one of the world's most popular teams.

[SHABBA]

Messi is better relative to his sport and more well-known/popular (whatever that matters). He's a combination of Wilt and MJ in basketball terms.

[alenleomessi]

Even Messi would say LeBron. Joke thread.

http://news-football.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/lebron-messi.jpg

Typical unathletic looking white kid vs beast of a human being
so you are going to compare the body of a 6'8 250 lbs black basketball player to a 5'7 150 lbs white football player?



even though messi is a little guy he doesnt fly away like lebron
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SowvPA4lIo


messi is stronger than he looks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0gS5CshUDE

[Uncle Drew]

So much crap in one post.

Messi had a hormone deficiency and would be dwarfed by Nate Robinson if it weren't for the necessary treatment. What's Wade's excuse? One guy grew in height, the other guy's jaw developed it's own zip code.

Also, he's quite possibly the greatest footballer of all time already. Unless you're one of those who believes that you need to win the World Cup to establish yourself as the greatest. European club football has overtook international football in that aspect. The competition is far greater and it's far more rigorous. The consistency he's shown over the last 6 years has been unbelievable. The only player's who can challenge him for being the best of all time are Maradona and Pele and if he keeps going like this then they don't stand a chance. Personally I think he's already overtook them.

LeBron's a far greater athlete. Possibly the greatest in the world. Messi's more popular given that he's the greatest player in the world's biggest sport playing for one of the world's most popular teams.
:applause: Repped

Although I don't agree with Pele being in there.

[Unbiased_one]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that there are more professional footballers today than there have been professional basketball players in history (by far). Messi is at the top of a much bigger pile than lebron is.

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

Who's the better athlete?

Who's more popular?

Lol lebron stops after usa... Nobody knows lebron outside usa

Kobe is more popular then lebron in asia/europe

Dont even compare him to messi on popularity

[LeBird]

I don't know if because soccer is the more popular sport means he is more popular. When Maradona was the best in the sport, even more-so clearly than Messi, he definitely wasn't more popular than his contemporary Jordan. Basketball is way more an international sport now than it was in Jordan's day.


Maradona may have been comparable in his superiority as Messi, but he wasn't playing for arguably the most stacked/talented team in football history (Barca). That's the only reason he didn't get that kind of fame and football is a far more team-centric game than Basketball.

[LeBird]

it's funny because Xavi and Iniesta are never bored to claim the opposite.

But you're a biased EPL fan, I'm sure you think barcelona couldn't cut it on a cold night at Stoke's.

Xavi and Iniesta, without Messi, are world champions and 2x european champions.

[LeBird]

Messi is better relative to his sport and more well-known/popular (whatever that matters). He's a combination of Wilt and MJ in basketball terms.

It depends. Messi is an offensive juggernaut; more like Gretzky because he scores and assists at an incredible rate. But, when it comes to the defensive side of the game Messi is a non-factor. Lebron is a huge player on both ends of the floor; in that sense it is hard to compare them.

Lebron is more like a Gerrard (in his prime).

[brain drain]

You Don't have to go back as far as Maradona to find a player that's comparable to Messi: the original Ronaldo (o fenomeno) was a better player, especially before his injury.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROPMTnDuzEw

What people don't seem to get about Messi is that he's played his whole career in a best case scenario: for his whole career, he's played on a team that's been THE best in the world most of the time and top 5 at worst in the last year.
This team has excellent passers AND heavily on him to score the goals. Plus, he's playing in an offensive-minded Spanish league that's very top heavy.
All that put together means that his scoring numbers are to be taken with a grain of salt. Put him on a team and league like Maradona's Napoli or Ronaldo's Inter and things will look a bit different. Heck, just wait for the coming season when they have another great player playing a similar role (Neymar) and see what happens.

That's not to say Messi isn't a great player. He is. But he gets slightly overrated due to circumstances.

Here's some food for thought: the Spanish National team (which basically consists of most of Messi's Barcelona team mates + some Real Madrid players) has been consistently getting top results for the last 5 years.
Messi on the Argentinian National team (which also has quite a few very good players besides Messi) - not so much.

[luckylucy]

Messi is lucky to play in the Spanish League, were there are two great teams and the rest is just garbage. On top of that, his team rely on him to do all the scoring.

It would be like LeBron when playing in Cleveland but the rest of the teams are Bobcats.

[Unbiased_one]

Messi is lucky to play in the Spanish League, were there are two great teams and the rest is just garbage. On top of that, his team rely on him to do all the scoring.

It would be like LeBron when playing in Cleveland but the rest of the teams are Bobcats.

Bilbao, who aren't even a top Spanish team, destroyed Man U not so very long ago. The premiership has five very strong teams, and is probably the strongest overall in Europe, but la liga is considerably stronger overall than the other European leagues and is nearly as stronas the premier league. A number of top premier league players are imports from la liga (silva, mata etc.). More goals were scored in the premiership than la liga last year, and in my opinion it is defensively the second strongest league in Europe. Funnily enough, adjusting for weighted possession, barcelona are actually one of the weakest defensive teams in Spain (17th in GAo).

[Trollsmasher]

Ten years ago nobody was even counting assists in football, now we are adjusting for weighted possession... stats don't belong into football:mad:

[B-Easy8]

Messi is lucky to play in the Spanish League, were there are two great teams and the rest is just garbage. On top of that, his team rely on him to do all the scoring.

It would be like LeBron when playing in Cleveland but the rest of the teams are Bobcats.

How do you explain Champions League then fakkit!

He is no Schweinsteger in terms of overall impact but he is a bigger name globally than LBJ.

[Trollsmasher]

How do you explain Champions League then fakkit!

He is no Schweinsteger in terms of overall impact but he is a bigger name globally than LBJ.
Everyone wins CL once in a while. And Messi's play in CL in the last two years was a nice combination of LeBron's 2011 extra choke and Derrick Rose's 2013 pussiness.

[alenleomessi]

wow you two ^

:oldlol:

[b1imtf]

lebron has a bigger paycheck but much bigger taxes on his earnings.

messi owns his image right (he gets most of the money out of adverts and can negotiate with brands directly) whereas Lebron owes it to the NBA brand (someone correct me if this has changed recently).

So I'd say Messi overall although Lebron earns much more from his team (t75he highest paid soccer player is on around 15 million dollars a year but the biggest stars can easily make twice as much counting advertising)
:facepalm

[lakers_forever]

Hahahah, you're either wearing nostalgia tinted glasses or trying too hard to sound lectured.

Messi has already surpassed all greats and is only comparable to Maradona (the best player ever up until Messi).

Pele was never better than Maradona he was just a bigger brand world wide and the first big ambassador of soccer in USA (hence you having such opinion)


Yep. Sure. Pele was never better than Maradona. Only americans would think that. :facepalm That's why 17 former ballon d'or winners voted for Pele as best ever while only 3 voted for Maradona.


http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/best-x-players-of-y.html#ff-poc

World Soccer, France Football, IFFHS, all most famous magazines have Pele as the greatest of all time.

Pele was selected as athelete of the century by the International Olympic Committee without even ever participating in the Olympics. Also athelete of the century by Reuters and L'equipe.

I repeat, only americans would think Pele is the greatest. :roll: :lol :oldlol:




On Topic: Messi is better at his sport and more popular around the world. Dude is a genius and will retire as top 3 GOAT (Pele, Maradona and Messi) or top 2 goat (Pele of the 20th and Messi of the 21th century).

[brain drain]

Yep. Sure. Pele was never better than Maradona. Only americans would think that. :facepalm That's why 17 former ballon d'or winners voted for Pele as best ever while only 3 voted for Maradona.


http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/best-x-players-of-y.html#ff-poc

World Soccer, France Football, IFFHS, all most famous magazines have Pele as the greatest of all time.

Pele was selected as athelete of the century by the International Olympic Committee without even ever participating in the Olympics. Also athelete of the century by Reuters and L'equipe.

I repeat, only americans would think Pele is the greatest. :roll: :lol :oldlol:




On Topic: Messi is better at his sport and more popular around the world. Dude is a genius and will retire as top 3 GOAT (Pele, Maradona and Messi) or top 2 goat (Pele of the 20th and Messi of the 21th century).

But that whole GOAT list stuff for soccer is rather ridiculous, because the game has evolved too much over time.

Take a look a this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=953rOfQ8Y0w

And then this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ayMH2k5yWk

It's like the difference between a propeller plane and a jet.

[b1imtf]

How do you explain Champions League then fakkit!

He is no Schweinsteger in terms of overall impact but he is a bigger name globally than LBJ.
Wut

[Rondo]

Wut

I know, I'm stunned too.

Schweinsteiger greater impact than Messi? Pele better than Maradona? Messi lucky to play in a two-team league? Pretty much every league is dominated by two teams :oldlol:

[brain drain]

Wut
He's probably talking about the fact that Bayern with Schweinsteiger was a guaranteed win in the second half of last season (22 games, all won), while they dropped a few without him.

[b1imtf]

I know, I'm stunned too.

Schweinsteiger greater impact than Messi? Pele better than Maradona? Messi lucky to play in a two-team league? Pretty much every league is dominated by two teams :oldlol:
Schweini is a beast but tone the **** down :lol
I don't even like Messi but that guy must've missed the CL quarter finals... Messi didn't start and then when he came on Bar

[brain drain]

Pretty much every league is dominated by two teams :oldlol:
Not like Spain. Their teams negotiate their TV deals individually which means that Real and Barca get the lion's share of TV money and the other teams get very little. Most other leagues have collective TV deals with a more balanced division of tv money.

[Pinkhearts]

LOL Messi is a world cup away from being GOAT. Whether he can win it is another question.

And Messi is less of a physical specimen than lebron, but he is waaaaaaay more skilled. Football is a game where you can't make a team just being tall and able to jump high, unlike basketball.

[brain drain]

LOL Messi is a world cup away from being GOAT.
I don't understand how anybody can say that. Messi at his best isn't as good to Ronaldo (the brazilian one) was at his peak, and no matter how many titles he wins with Barca and Argentina can change that.

[Frozen1]

Messi has luck to play in a great era in barcelona, with a well adjusted and great team. This makes things easier for him to play up to his potential.

He should thank Ronaldinho for it. Barcelona was not in its greatest times, and Real Madrid was winning everything when he went there. With Ronaldinho Barcelona became a football power again.

Give me peak ronaldinho on 03-04 and 04-05 against anything messi has ever done.

[Miserio]

Ronaldo is popular in those places too. He played for the two most popular clubs in the world after all.

Messi is hated even in Argentina, why the hell would he be popular in the countries of their rivals? Neymar is more popular in SA.

You are just making up stuff without any sources.
Where the hell did you get this stuff? I'm from Argentina and Messi is basically God in here.

[luckylucy]

Pretty much every league is dominated by two teams :oldlol:

Not at all

[Unbiased_one]

I don't understand how anybody can say that. Messi at his best isn't as good to Ronaldo (the brazilian one) was at his peak, and no matter how many titles he wins with Barca and Argentina can change that.

I don't know how you can say that. I played semi pro and I work for a football club and pretty much everyone who actually analyses the game professionally thinks messi is the best player since maradona (because he is, and by some distance). If you want opinions in the public sphere, just go look at what people like wenger and ferguson have said about him.

[riseagainst]

lebron's the better athlete, but Messi's skills in football is beyond anything Lebron has ever dreamed of achieving in basketball.

[jzek]

I don't follow soccer at all but am I correct to assume that Messi is pretty much the Michael Jordan of that sport (aka GOAT)? :confusedshrug:

[brain drain]

I don't know how you can say that. I played semi pro and I work for a football club and pretty much everyone who actually analyses the game professionally thinks messi is the best player since maradona (because he is, and by some distance). If you want opinions in the public sphere, just go look at what people like wenger and ferguson have said about him.
Caught up in the Barcelona hype of the last few years. Pre-injury Ronaldo was a unique combination of speed, power, technique and goal scoring.

[Crafty]

Messi is the best player on the most popular sport in the world. Obv

[brain drain]

I don't follow soccer at all but am I correct to assume that Messi is pretty much the Michael Jordan of that sport (aka GOAT)? :confusedshrug:
No. There's no Jordan-like figure in soccer. And Messi's not going to change that.

[Crafty]

I don't follow soccer at all but am I correct to assume that Messi is pretty much the Michael Jordan of that sport (aka GOAT)? :confusedshrug:
Kinda, but football is ever more played and more popular

[Unbiased_one]

Caught up in the Barcelona hype of the last few years. Pre-injury Ronaldo was a unique combination of speed, power, technique and goal scoring.

Every champions league winner over the last 5 years has either been barcelona or a team specifically designed to counter tiki taka. I remember Ronaldo well. Hell, I was still playing in London at the time when he was really in his peak. He's not in Messi's league (although I would say he's the next best since maradona, with Zidane somewhere close by).

You don't really understand how good messi is until you realise how far teams go to try and stop him. I left chelsea in 2010, we spent 10 times as much time on him as we did any other individual player. That was roughly the time when we (and other teams) realised the only way to play barcelona was to sit back and counter them, and man mark messi the whole game even when he dropped into midfield. The only team to successfully take the game to barcelona since 08 were bayern 2013, and that was against a coach-less Barca with messi at well under 50 percent.

[Crafty]

Every champions league winner over the last 5 years has either been barcelona or a team specifically designed to counter tiki taka. I remember Ronaldo well. Hell, I was still playing in London at the time when he was really in his peak. He's not in Messi's league (although I would say he's the next best since maradona, with Zidane somewhere close by).

You don't really understand how good messi is until you realise how far teams go to try and stop him. I left chelsea in 2010, we spent 10 times as much time on him as we did any other individual player. That was roughly the time when we (and other teams) realised the only way to play barcelona was to sit back and counter them, and man mark messi the whole game even when he dropped into midfield. The only team to successfully take the game to barcelona since 08 were bayern 2013, and that was against a coach-less Barca with messi at well under 50 percent.
And that's why you lose. You can't stop Messi, you can slow him down by stoping Iniesta and/or Xavi

[brain drain]

Every champions league winner over the last 5 years has either been barcelona or a team specifically designed to counter tiki taka. I remember Ronaldo well. Hell, I was still playing in London at the time when he was really in his peak. He's not in Messi's league (although I would say he's the next best since maradona, with Zidane somewhere close by).

You don't really understand how good messi is until you realise how far teams go to try and stop him. I left chelsea in 2010, we spent 10 times as much time on him as we did any other individual player. That was roughly the time when we (and other teams) realised the only way to play barcelona was to sit back and counter them, and man mark messi the whole game even when he dropped into midfield. The only team to successfully take the game to barcelona since 08 were bayern 2013, and that was against a coach-less Barca with messi at well under 50 percent.
That's crazy. If you want to talk about tiki taka, then you better talk about Iniesta and Xavi. Who also happen to be pretty successful with their tiki taka when Messi isn't around, see the Spanish national team.

[Unbiased_one]

And that's why you lose. You can't stop Messi, you can slow him down by stoping Iniesta and/or Xavi

Every team man marks messi nowadays. It may not be the same person for the whole match, but at any given point in a match someone will be assigned to him. The two most notable examples of this are peep, who mourinho used to use in clasicos to rough up messi, and essien, who when for was generally used by Chelsea in this role. I've been working at QPR for the last 2 years, so we don't really worry about messi, but I can easily tell that most teams still employ similar strategies to Chelsea nowadays.

[brain drain]

And that's why you lose. You can't stop Messi, you can slow him down by stoping Iniesta and/or Xavi
Messi by himself isn't all that dangerous. See Argentina's NT.

Contrast that with Ronaldo (the original one). The guy was successful whereever he went:
one season at Barcelona with 34 league goals (at the ripe age of 20), Inter, Real, Brazilian national team.

[Unbiased_one]

That's crazy. If you want to talk about tiki taka, then you better talk about Iniesta and Xavi. Who also happen to be pretty successful with their tiki taka when Messi isn't around, see the Spanish national team.

The Spanish national team is built on their defense, whereas barcelona are essentially an attacking team. In particular, Spain employ a double pivot and use xavi as an option forward, while he plays as a conventional on ball cm most of the time for barcelona (although he does regularly take up the 9 position when they rotate their midfield).

The Spanish national team has won a lot of tournaments because of their supreme ability to keep clean sheets. The last time they conceded a knock out goal in a major comp was euro 2008. They tried out a more 'Barca-like' system in the confeds cup employing a single pivot and rotating inside forwards and they weren't very good at all.

[Unbiased_one]

Messi by himself isn't all that dangerous. See Argentina's NT.

Contrast that with Ronaldo (the original one). The guy was successful whereever he went:
one season at Barcelona with 34 league goals (at the ripe age of 20), Inter, Real, Brazilian national team.

Look, at least read the previous posts. I've already addressed this...ever since messi was moved to his normal role in the Argentina team he's scored at a goal a game and they've been very good.

[alenleomessi]

Messi by himself isn't all that dangerous. See Argentina's NT.

Contrast that with Ronaldo (the original one). The guy was successful whereever he went:
one season at Barcelona with 34 league goals (at the ripe age of 20), Inter, Real, Brazilian national team.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qnT1tktR1g

btw R9 wasnt that successful at psv, barca or inter... madrid and brazil were stacked... dont get me wrong i love ronaldo but no one can play by himself.. not even ronaldo, messi or maradona.. or whoever

[lakers_forever]

I don't follow soccer at all but am I correct to assume that Messi is pretty much the Michael Jordan of that sport (aka GOAT)? :confusedshrug:

No. Pele is.


No. There's no Jordan-like figure in soccer. And Messi's not going to change that.

There is. Pele. The man stopped playing in the 70's and still is synonymous with football, called the King and greatest every country he visits. He is 72 years old and still a bigger name than Michael Jordan worldwide. It's not unusual to here MJ being called the "Pele of basketball" around the world.

Great piece on Time Magazine on Pele and Jordan.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2053917,00.html

[mentallooser]

In terms of popularity Messi by a long shot. Not really even close worldwide.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Messi is laughly better than Maradona and Pele. The defenses now are infinitely more sophisticated, players are bigger, stronger, and more athletic, and yet Messi still destroys everyone to an extent that very few have ever done in the history of the sport.

Messi's reign of the football world now >>>> Pele and Maradona's dominance in weak eras

[riseagainst]

Messi is laughly better than Maradona and Pele. The defenses now are infinitely more sophisticated, players are bigger, stronger, and more athletic, and yet Messi still destroys everyone to an extent that very few have ever done in the history of the sport.

Messi's reign of the football world now >>>> Pele and Maradona's dominance in weak eras

same with the whole Wilt and Russell are janitors in today's league? :rolleyes:

[JimmyMcAdocious]

same with the whole Wilt and Russell are janitors in today's league? :rolleyes:

Janitors... Javale McGee and Larry Sanders... Not much of a difference, I guess.

[Andrew Wiggins]

No. Pele is.



There is. Pele. The man stopped playing in the 70's and still is synonymous with football, called the King and greatest every country he visits. He is 72 years old and still a bigger name than Michael Jordan worldwide. It's not unusual to here MJ being called the "Pele of basketball" around the world.

Great piece on Time Magazine on Pele and Jordan.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2053917,00.html


lmao, jordan is a easily more recognizable name than pele.

[TonyMontana]

LeBron.

6'8 270 Elite athletiisicm and speed

Not only is he far bigger than "Messi", but he is also faster and more explosive.

One player in soccer doesn't even make as much of a difference. Your going to compare this dudes impact on games to that of LeBron? He probably doesn't even score in most of his games. :oldlol:

Here in America, the most powerful country in the world most citizens wouldn't even recognize Messi walking down the street. Meanwhile EVERYONE would recognize and hound LeBron for autographs.

http://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/M/Lionel-Messi-555732-1-402.jpg

looks like the kid I'd fling my yogurt at during lunch time.

[brain drain]

No. Pele is.



There is. Pele. The man stopped playing in the 70's and still is synonymous with football, called the King and greatest every country he visits. He is 72 years old and still a bigger name than Michael Jordan worldwide. It's not unusual to here MJ being called the "Pele of basketball" around the world.

Great piece on Time Magazine on Pele and Jordan.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2053917,00.html
No, there isn't. Soccer is a game of 11 players, not 5. One player simply doesn't have the same kind of impact. And on top of that, I don't know anybody who would claim that Pele is better than today's top players.

[Rondo]

LeBron.

6'8 270 Elite athletiisicm and speed

Not only is he far bigger than "Messi", but he is also faster and more explosive.

One player in soccer doesn't even make as much of a difference. Your going to compare this dudes impact on games to that of LeBron? He probably doesn't even score in most of his games. :oldlol:

Here in America, the most powerful country in the world most citizens wouldn't even recognize Messi walking down the street. Meanwhile EVERYONE would recognize and hound LeBron for autographs.

http://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/M/Lionel-Messi-555732-1-402.jpg

looks like the kid I'd fling my yogurt at during lunch time.

First class trolling :oldlol:

[brain drain]

LeBron.

6'8 270 Elite athletiisicm and speed
The kind of athleticism and speed that works on a basketball court.
Put him on a soccer field with 3rd division players and watch him look like a fool.
Different sports have different requirements. You certainly wouldn't expect Lebron to do well as a cyclist or ice skater, would you?

[Rondo]

Not at all

England - Manchester United and another.

Germany - Bayern & Dortmund. For years it was just Bayern.

Italy - Changes all the time, used to be Juventus and one of the Milan teams now Juventus and nobody.

France - PSG and Marseille generally.

Scotland - Celtic & Rangers.

Holland's the only bigger league I can think of where it's somewhat competitive these days throughout but even then historically it's been dominated by Ajax.

[alenleomessi]

somebody just close this f*cking thread already

wow..

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

England - Manchester United and another.

Germany - Bayern & Dortmund. For years it was just Bayern.

Italy - Changes all the time, used to be Juventus and one of the Milan teams now Juventus and nobody.

France - PSG and Marseille generally.

Scotland - Celtic & Rangers.

Holland's the only bigger league I can think of where it's somewhat competitive these days throughout but even then historically it's been dominated by Ajax.
well...

England - Man U, Chelsea, Man City have all won league titles the past few years

Germany - yeah, basically Bayern and Dortmund

Spain - Barca and Real Madrid of course

Italy - Juve only now. Used to be Juve, AC Milan, and Inter. Though now Napoli looks to be title contenders.

France - PSG now and maybe Monaco now. But for a while it was Lyon and Marseille w/ a anomaly here or there like Lille or Montpellier

Portugal - Benfica and Porto

So yeah, most leagues have duopolies. But who cares? The Champions League is what most club football fans really care about. Fans just want their clubs to qualify - 4th is the new 1st for some leagues. Plus the cup itself definitely has more parity, obviously.

edit:
it kind of makes me think about how much Americans value championship rings so much for our sports, specifically NFL and NBA, when judging an athlete's greatness. Yet the rest of the world doesn't. In soccer, a great player is a great player, plain and simple. Ronaldo may never win the World Cup, La Liga title or Champions League (though he has won the Cope del Rey). But that has no impact on how ppl see his greatness. That'd never happen in the NFL or NBA. If you don't win a ring at some point, you're suddenly not great as you were considered before. Granted, the sports are different. As stated, the proportionality of impact 1 player can have in the NBA or NFL - specifically the QB - is greater than it is in baseball or soccer. Regardless, ring worship is so f*cking stupid. Stockton, Malone, Barkley, Marino, etc are all all-time greats, better than a lot of title winners.

[TonyMontana]

The kind of athleticism and speed that works on a basketball court.
Put him on a soccer field with 3rd division players and watch him look like a fool.
Different sports have different requirements. You certainly wouldn't expect Lebron to do well as a cyclist or ice skater, would you?

Of course he'd look like a fool playing soccer, hes probably never played in his life. Just like the soccer players would look like fools playing basketball.

Thats not what Im saying.

Put him on a field with Messi with a variety of athletic tests to determine ones athleticism. Vertical jump, sprint race, quickness and ability to change direction, strength tests.

And not only would it be a slaughterfest, but it would be even more impressive considering LeBron is 6'8 and 270.

[Cherry Picker]

People here are overrating Pele, my goodness.
...

[JimmyMcAdocious]

People here are overrating Pele, my goodness.

Pele is to soccer what Wilt is to basketball. People see the stats, hear the mystical hype, and assume he was supremely better than everyone to ever play. Then you watch the film and he's playing against your local grocery baggers.

[Unbiased_one]

Of course he'd look like a fool playing soccer, hes probably never played in his life. Just like the soccer players would look like fools playing basketball.

Thats not what Im saying.

Put him on a field with Messi with a variety of athletic tests to determine ones athleticism. Vertical jump, sprint race, quickness and ability to change direction, strength tests.

And not only would it be a slaughterfest, but it would be even more impressive considering LeBron is 6'8 and 270.

Messi has way more balance and fitness. He's way better at changing direction and making sudden bursts. He is also a far more skilful athlete than lebron (or indeed anyone in the nba).

I don't think you understand how foolish messi would make lebron look just using his change of pace.

[Unbiased_one]

Pele is to soccer what Wilt is to basketball. People see the stats, hear the mystical hype, and assume he was supremely better than everyone to ever play. Then you watch the film and he's playing against your local grocery baggers.

Pele is more like a less successful version of Russell. Brazil won the World Cup in 62 without him, back when the World Cup was a high standard.

My personal top 5 would be:

Maradona
Messi
Beckenbauer
Di stefano
Cruyff

All were tested at the highest level and were successful.

[lakers_forever]

lmao, jordan is a easily more recognizable name than pele.

No, He is not. The world is not North America.

[lakers_forever]

Pele is to soccer what Wilt is to basketball. People see the stats, hear the mystical hype, and assume he was supremely better than everyone to ever play. Then you watch the film and he's playing against your local grocery baggers.

Yep. Local grocery baggers like Beckbenbauer, Nilton Santos, Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Eusebio, Garrincha, Didi. :lol :roll:

[lakers_forever]

Pele is to soccer what Wilt is to basketball. People see the stats, hear the mystical hype, and assume he was supremely better than everyone to ever play. Then you watch the film and he's playing against your local grocery baggers.

Only if Wilt had the titles to go along. Pele was like Wilt (crazy stats) plus Russell (record titles). Brazil was actually second rate before Pele (and Garrincha), only third best of South America (behind Uruguay and Argentina). With Pele, they become the best in the world. After pele retired, they spent 24 years without winning anything.

If Wilt had the numbers and close to Russell's titles (like 8), he would be considered GOAT. That was Pele.



Pele is more like a less successful version of Russell. Brazil won the World Cup in 62 without him, back when the World Cup was a high standard.

My personal top 5 would be:

Maradona
Messi
Beckenbauer
Di stefano
Cruyff

All were tested at the highest level and were successful.

:roll: Pele not even top 5? Santos used to destroy European teams. They toyed with Eusebio's Benfica (European Champions) in the Intecontinental Club Cup played in Portugal (Pele scored 3 goals and gave one great assist):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Dw8TWMJik

Di Stefano (who's in your list) speaking about Pele:

"The best player ever? Pele. Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are both great players with specific qualities, but Pele was better,"

http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2012/09/10/3366174/pele-was-better-than-messi-cristiano-ronaldo-says-di-stefano

Cruyff (in your list) speaking about Pele:

Pele has been voted player of the 20th Century, finishing ahead of Johan Cruyff and Franz Beckenbauer in a poll by a group of football historians.

''I think the poll has the right winner,'' Cruyff said

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/pele-is-voted-best-player-of-the-20th-century-1.254874

Maradona (on your list) admitting peharps Pele was better than him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmVN0ur__Bs

Platini (another legend) speaking about Pele (he says to play like Pele is to play like God).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF3yVLf9j4s

[lakers_forever]

Also Beckenbauer saying Pele is the best ever:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EEkNs1l1qI

3 of your top 5 think Pele was the best ever. :D

BONUS: PELE dribbling Beckenbauer (the all time greatest defender):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFGoVXtgNHc

[ClutchOver9000]

Of course he'd look like a fool playing soccer, hes probably never played in his life. Just like the soccer players would look like fools playing basketball.

Thats not what Im saying.

Put him on a field with Messi with a variety of athletic tests to determine ones athleticism. Vertical jump, sprint race, quickness and ability to change direction, strength tests.

And not only would it be a slaughterfest, but it would be even more impressive considering LeBron is 6'8 and 270.

:lol No.

[The-Legend-24]

Messi. Messi is also better at his sport than LeBron is at his.

[plowking]

Majority of americans dont even know who Messi is.

:oldlol:

Yeah, sure.

[plowking]

Of course he'd look like a fool playing soccer, hes probably never played in his life. Just like the soccer players would look like fools playing basketball.

Thats not what Im saying.

Put him on a field with Messi with a variety of athletic tests to determine ones athleticism. Vertical jump, sprint race, quickness and ability to change direction, strength tests.

And not only would it be a slaughterfest, but it would be even more impressive considering LeBron is 6'8 and 270.

Are you that idiotic that you think Lebron is going to beat Messi in an agility test? Seriously? You've posted some stupid shit, but this would top it.

[deja vu]

Of course he'd look like a fool playing soccer, hes probably never played in his life. Just like the soccer players would look like fools playing basketball.

Thats not what Im saying.

Put him on a field with Messi with a variety of athletic tests to determine ones athleticism. Vertical jump, sprint race, quickness and ability to change direction, strength tests.

And not only would it be a slaughterfest, but it would be even more impressive considering LeBron is 6'8 and 270.
I don't know if LeBron is faster than Messi but Messi has been estimated to run 4.5-4.75 seconds for 40 yards.

Ability to change direction? I bet you haven't seen Messi play. he's out of this world in that department.

[Electric Slide]

Nobody gives a shit about an irrelevant poverty sport like Soccer.

[deja vu]

Nobody gives a shit about an irrelevant poverty sport like Soccer.
Yeah because Real Madrid and Manchester United are not the richest sports teams in the world. :roll:

[KNOW1EDGE]

Nobody gives a shit about an irrelevant poverty sport like Soccer.

AKA the most popular sport in the world.

[Electric Slide]

Yeah because Real Madrid and Manchester United are not the richest sports teams in the world. :roll:
doesn't change the fact that nobody cares about the sport.

[KNOW1EDGE]

doesn't change the fact that nobody cares about the sport.

It is the most popular sport in the world.

How do you figure "nobody cares"

/fail

[plowking]

I don't know if LeBron is faster than Messi but Messi has been estimated to run 4.5-4.75 seconds for 40 yards.

Ability to change direction? I bet you haven't seen Messi play. he's out of this world in that department.

Lebron is most definitely better in a straight line, though hes not touching Messi in change of pace, direction, etc.
Messi is 1.69m and as low to the ground as you're going to get. Hes probably one of the best in the world from any sport at a standardized agility test.

[Jameerthefear]

doesn't change the fact that nobody cares about the sport.
Yep! The money just appears out of nowhere!

[Electric Slide]

It is the most popular sport in the world.

How do you figure "nobody cares"

/fail
Nobody in America and is relevant cares.

[havoc33]

Nobody gives a shit about an irrelevant poverty sport like Soccer.
The dumbest comment I've read here in a long time.

[havoc33]

Nobody in America and is relevant cares.
Go away with your ignorance. Just stop.

[Jameerthefear]

The dumbest comment I've read here in a long time.
If you stick around it only gets worse

[deja vu]

Lebron is most definitely better in a straight line, though hes not touching Messi in change of pace, direction, etc.
Messi is 1.69m and as low to the ground as you're going to get. Hes probably one of the best in the world from any sport at a standardized agility test.
Agree. But is LeBron faster than Cristiano Ronaldo on a straight line?

[deja vu]

doesn't change the fact that few Americans cares about the sport.
Fixed. :roll:

[plowking]

Agree. But is LeBron faster than Cristiano Ronaldo on a straight line?

I'd say so, just by pure guess/watching both.

Soccer is a bit different, in the sense you train for different purposes. Ronaldo wouldn't be doing anywhere near the amount of explosive movement training that Lebron does. I think its just natural to assume that an athlete playing a longer duration sport, with a much larger area of ground to cover each game, will more than likely be slightly less explosive, but a better endurance athlete.

Saying that though, over the first 10 or so meters, I'd give the nod to both Messi and Ronaldo due to being smaller, and more nimble. Over 40, its Lebron IMO.

[b1imtf]

Agree. But is LeBron faster than Cristiano Ronaldo on a straight line?
I don't think so

[alenleomessi]

so the heat fan will say lebron obviously, and the guy from portugal will say CR obviously.. and ill say messi > both
:oldlol:
its fun isnt it?

[rhythmic]

Messi already arguably achieved more in 6-7 years with a club then anyone has in their career. He is easily a top three player to me of all-time alongside Pele & Maradona. I still think Pele was a better dribbler then anyone in history but Messi I believe has a quicker burst and better at changing direction. He also has more accurate kicks, IMO. All he's missing is more success on an international level and he might become the greatest football player of all-time. But it will take him a few more legendary years before he even thinks of passing Pele, or Maradona.

In comparison, LeBron could become a top three basketball player of all-time but he is not there yet and has a lot to achieve to accomplish such a feat. I don't think he really has a legit shot at surpassing Jordan. Football also has A LOT more players globally then the NBA, so there's more competition and Messi for the last 4 years has been named the best footballer in the world.

He's clearly a more popular and more accomplished athlete in their respective sport, why is this even a discussion to be honest?

There is no player in the world that is on the same level as Messi; not Iniesta, not Ronaldo, not no one.

[Trollsmasher]

Agree. But is LeBron faster than Cristiano Ronaldo on a straight line?
I don't think so. Ronaldo is able to cross the whole playing field in 10 seconds while not running straight and having to adjust to where the ball is going. Plus he has terrible running style :lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qadThJjVQM

The measuring in this video obviously is not accurate, but it is probably best showcase of Ronaldo's speed. I don't think LeBron is faster.

[branslowski]

I don't think so. Ronaldo is able to cross the whole playing field in 10 seconds while not running straight and having to adjust to where the ball is going. Plus he has terrible running style :lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qadThJjVQM

The measuring in this video obviously is not accurate, but it is probably best showcase of Ronaldo's speed. I don't think LeBron is faster.

Agreed. Why do ppl call you a LeBron troll? I know ur a fan who likes to protect ur fav player, but not a troll. You don't deserve to be in red like low iq trolls.

[Trollsmasher]

Agreed. Why do ppl call you a LeBron troll? I know ur a fan who likes to protect ur fav player, but not a troll. You don't deserve to be in red like low iq trolls.
I troll when the others troll and I troll idiotic non-trolls like pedo123:lol I have no problem admitting LeBron is not the best at everything when the discussion is serious

[Andrew Wiggins]

No, He is not. The world is not North America.

yes he is, the world is not south america

[lakers_forever]

yes he is, the world is not south america

Man.

Popularity worldwide:

Soccer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basketball

Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo, Messi are all more popular than Jordan all around the world.

[Andrew Wiggins]

Man.

Popularity worldwide:

Soccer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basketball

Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo, Messi are all more popular than Jordan all around the world.

yes, football is more popular than basketball but jordan transcends the game

jordan is more known name in the most populous countries in the world except for brazil. in china, india, usa - jordan >>>> pele, maradona, ronaldo

maybe with the younger kids now and all the social media, messi is more known

[EnoughSaid]

Come on now, Messi is already a legend and easily a top 3 GOAT player of all time. In regard to their respective sports, Messi has this no doubt. However, they both still have the ability to become the greatest players ever.

[deja vu]

Man.

Popularity worldwide:

Soccer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basketball

Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo, Messi are all more popular than Jordan all around the world.
I'm a fan of both basketball and football, but I don't think these football players are more popular than Jordan. Football is no doubt a more popular sport than basketball and other sports, but I think that Jordan is the most famous athlete ever.

[dannywpt]

Interesting vid for those who know little about soccer/football: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSL-gPMPVXI

They perform different tests on C. Ronaldo, who is known for being an incredibly versatile, physical, complete player.

They measure a 31 inch vertical in an awkward test.

[Pointguard]

I'm a fan of both basketball and football, but I don't think these football players are more popular than Jordan. Football is no doubt a more popular sport than basketball and other sports, but I think that Jordan is the most famous athlete ever.

Yeah, Basketball moreso than any other sport has the capacity to create legendary persona's. If Lebron had won in Clevelend with those funny commercials he was putting out and perhaps a couple of movies, Messi wouldn't be close to him in popularity. Football like American Football is harder to standout. Pele was the exception because he changed the game and made it really sweet on the eyes. His skill level was legendary and he did it wherever he played on the world stage as well. Messi is the best player at this time but he isn't iconic like Pele.


Duncan could have been close to being the best player in basketball in the '00 decade. But he lacked persona. He isn't likely to be in a Harlen Shake video. So that's a key element in popularity. People and their persona make up popularity than their sports will do for them. In the Olympics, World Cups and big stages is Messi clearly the best??? That's the time to stand out. Pele was like that. Soccer is the most popular sport not because of the European leagues. It was always a show and prove on the world stage - and Maradona followed that tradition.

Who is the fastest man on the planet? What athlete is known to fly? What athlete stands out among other athletes? Ali had an indomitable spirit in the Olympics. Everybody has their eyes on the world stage. Or somebody who clearly stands out.

[Unbiased_one]

Yeah, Basketball moreso than any other sport has the capacity to create legendary persona's. If Lebron had won in Clevelend with those funny commercials he was putting out and perhaps a couple of movies, Messi wouldn't be close to him in popularity. Football like American Football is harder to standout. Pele was the exception because he changed the game and made it really sweet on the eyes. His skill level was legendary and he did it wherever he played on the world stage as well. Messi is the best player at this time but he isn't iconic like Pele.


Duncan could have been close to being the best player in basketball in the '00 decade. But he lacked persona. He isn't likely to be in a Harlen Shake video. So that's a key element in popularity. People and their persona make up popularity than their sports will do for them. In the Olympics, World Cups and big stages is Messi clearly the best??? That's the time to stand out. Pele was like that. Soccer is the most popular sport not because of the European leagues. It was always a show and prove on the world stage - and Maradona followed that tradition.

Who is the fastest man on the planet? What athlete is known to fly? What athlete stands out among other athletes? Ali had an indomitable spirit in the Olympics. Everybody has their eyes on the world stage. Or somebody who clearly stands out.

The Olympics isn't a big stage in football. It's an U23 tournament. Argentina (an messi) actually won in 2008 and messi was MVP.

The World Cup is increasingly becoming a second rate competition. The players are putting more and more into the club season and the standard of international football is suffering. IMHO a mid table premiership club if they rested their players for it and really went for it could win the World Cup. That's the kind of level it's played at nowadays.

The big stage in world football is the champions league.

[fpliii]

The Olympics isn't a big stage in football. It's an U23 tournament. Argentina (an messi) actually won in 2008 and messi was MVP.

The World Cup is increasingly becoming a second rate competition. The players are putting more and more into the club season and the standard of international football is suffering. IMHO a mid table premiership club if they rested their players for it and really went for it could win the World Cup. That's the kind of level it's played at nowadays.

The big stage in world football is the champions league.

Great post, I agree 100% (though I'm mostly a Serie A guy, I try to check out big matches).