Nate Thurmond interview - Talks Kareem & Wilt

[jongib369]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb1t37E9YY1rcm51co1_500.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh90_lXqh5o





SLAM: Who has been the greatest influence on your life?
NT: My father. He was a laborer for the Firestone Rubber Company. As I got older, it was Walter Dukes (a center for several teams, ’55-63). He was my first influence in the NBA.

SLAM: You once said Wilt treated you well as a rookie.
NT: I had come from a small school, and I saw all the attention that he was giving what and me a gregarious guy he was. He wasn’t friendly with opponents, but he was friendly with me. He bought meals for me, took me to (actress) Kim Novak’s house for a party. For a young man from Akron, this was an eye-opener.

SLAM: Was it intimidating coming to a team where a Chamberlain was already a star in the pivot?
NT: I wasn’t intimidated, because I knew I wasn’t going to start. I took it as an opportunity to practice against the best center in the league. I guarded him in practice. He was overpowering, because he had weight. I went from Bowling Green to the NBA and practiced hard against Wilt. There was a little incubation period, and everyday it was like, “Go to sleep at night, rookie.” I averaged seven points per game and was second in rebounds on the team my rookie year.

SLAM: he shot the fadeaway then?
NT: When he was scoring all the points, it was the fadeaway.

SLAM: Five times in your first six years you were in the top five in the league in rebounding. Do you think you’ve been given due credit for this?
NT: I was in the background. Things like that happen. Wilt and Russell were dominant on the court and dominant in the newspapers, and then Kareem came along.

SLAM: Was it frustrating being compared to Chamberlain and Russell all the time?
NT: I wasn’t always compared to them. Wilt was offensive; I was defensive. Muhammed Ali needed Frazier to show his greatness, you know? I held them down, and that was good enough for me. I was different from either one; Russ was more defensive than offensive, but he could score too.

SLAM: In six of your seven pro seasons, the Celtics were the NBA champions. How did you and your teammates deal with this?
NT: I don’t think anybody liked the Celtics. They were a hated team. They won any way they could; they would even tug on your pants. They had eight or nine (quality) players—we could go through the list—everyone else had three or four.

SLAM: And you reached the finals against Boston during your first season.
NT: It was a classic year. We got to the Finals, and when you were not playing, you were watching the two greatest centers of all time. It was the place to play. They filled it up in Boston for the playoffs, while we were drawing 5,000 a game in San Francisco.

SLAM: What do you remember best about Boston?
NT: It was intimidating. Boston had all the banners on the wall and dead spots on the floor and too much heat in the locker room. Still, Boston Garden was what you dreamed of.

SLAM: You once said the Wilt was the best all-around player of all-time. In your estimation, was he?
NT: No, the greatest all-time is Michael Jordan, and there are no ifs ands or buts about it. Number two is Oscar Robertson.

SLAM: When Wilt was traded to Philadelphia early in ’65, what were your feelings?
NT: I had played forward for more than a year. I still wanted to start, having before then started my whole life, and now I was going to get the chance (in the NBA). I was elated. I was self-serving—I figured, “I got a shot here.”

SLAM: How would San Francisco have done with both of you together in a twin-towers situation?
NT: I would have had to work on my facing-the-basket offense. I was OK defensively, because I was blessed at 6-11. I didn’t want to play forward, because it wasn’t my natural position.

SLAM: Wilt was making $200,000. What were you making at the time?
NT: $20,000.

SLAM: You averaged 20 points and 20 rebounds for two seasons, one of only four 20-20 men in history, along with Bob Pettit, Wilt and Jerry Lucas. This must have given you great pride.
NT: I didn’t realize that. I think that if you’re a big man, that’s your job. That comes with your territory: you must defend and you must rebound. If you can do those two things, you can win.

(Continued)

[jongib369]

SLAM: And there are only four guys in NBA history to grab forty or more rebounds in a game

[jongib369]

SLAM: You made the NBA All-Defensive First Team twice

[fpliii]

:applause:

[dyna]

:bowdown:

[CavaliersFTW]

Nothing to see here folks, just the salty opinion of a weak 6 foot white guy from Wilt's era that Wilt mercilessly preyed on.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IlubSSwQ0yY/UPzbjLxgbzI/AAAAAAAAEA8/Lz0OunkNBbQ/s800/Nate%2520Thurmond1.jpg

:lol

[ralph_i_el]

Nothing to see here folks, just the salty opinion of a weak 6 foot white guy from Wilt's era that Wilt mercilessly preyed on.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IlubSSwQ0yY/UPzbjLxgbzI/AAAAAAAAEA8/Lz0OunkNBbQ/s800/Nate%2520Thurmond1.jpg

:lol

are we sure this wasn't Lebrons Papa? dat hairline

So at least there were 4 real centers back then!

[L.Kizzle]

are we sure this wasn't Lebrons Papa? dat hairline

So at least there were 4 real centers back then!


Willis Reed
Bellamy
McAdoo
Unseld
Lanier

[jongib369]

Nothing to see here folks, just the salty opinion of a weak 6 foot white guy from Wilt's era that Wilt mercilessly preyed on.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IlubSSwQ0yY/UPzbjLxgbzI/AAAAAAAAEA8/Lz0OunkNBbQ/s800/Nate%2520Thurmond1.jpg

:lol
Interesting how he thinks Kareem was harder to guard and had a better repertoire but still considers Wilt the greatest scorer

[LAZERUSS]

Interesting how he thinks Kareem was harder to guard and had a better repertoire but still considers Wilt the greatest scorer

KAJ and Thurmond had 40 h2h games, and Kareem had a total of seven games of 30+ against Thurmond (and seven below 20 BTW), with a high game of 34 points.

A prime Chamberlain, from their last h2h in the 64-65 season, thru their nine h2h's in the 65-66 season, and even including their first h2h in the 66-67 season (in a season in which Wilt dramatically cut back his scoring), and covering 11 straight games, had six with 30+, including outscoring Nate by margins of 33-17, 33-10, 38-15, and 45-13.

Kareem had three straight playoff series in which he shot .486, .428, and .405 against Thurmond. In his three playoff series against Thurmond, Chamberlain outshot Nate by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and .560 to .343 (and the last one was in Nate's greatest season.)

[Jakeh008]

So this is from around 98?

I'd love to read a more recent one and see how his opinions changed now that the next generation of great players are coming to an end. He probably has a lot to say about guys like Shaq Duncan Kobe KG Dirk

[fpliii]

KAJ and Thurmond had 40 h2h games, and Kareem had a total of seven games of 30+ against Thurmond (and seven below 20 BTW), with a high game of 34 points.

A prime Chamberlain, from their last h2h in the 64-65 season, thru their nine h2h's in the 65-66 season, and even including their first h2h in the 66-67 season (in a season in which Wilt dramatically cut back his scoring), and covering 11 straight games, had six with 30+, including outscoring Nate by margins of 33-17, 33-10, 38-15, and 45-13.

Kareem had three straight playoff series in which he shot .486, .428, and .405 against Thurmond. In his three playoff series against Thurmond, Chamberlain outshot Nate by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and .560 to .343 (and the last one was in Nate's greatest season.)

Random question - How would you compare Thurmond to Artis Gilmore stylistically on defense (Nate was certainly more effective on that end IMO, but I'm interested in hearing your piece)?

[LAZERUSS]

Random question - How would you compare Thurmond to Artis Gilmore stylistically on defense (Nate was certainly more effective on that end IMO, but I'm interested in hearing your piece)?

Unfortunately, at least IMO, Gilmore's defense peaked in his ABA years. By the time he joined the NBA, he was 27, which is generally near a player's prime, but typically, a player has their best rebounding and shot-blocking seasons earlier in their careers.

But I would say that he was still a defensive force in his first three years in the NBA ('77, '78, and '79.)

I recall watching a Lakers-Bulls game on YouTube, which took place around 1979 (or so), and I remember the announcer claiming that no one gave KAJ more problems, that Gilmore. Now, granted, that was just the beginning of the Moses era, and clearly, no other player abused KAJ more than Moses did, but for that time frame, it was still impressive.

Now, I have a project for you, in your spare time, and at your convenience...

I think it would be interesting to pull up as much h2h info between the great centers of the 70's (and even into the 80's.)

McAdoo, KAJ, Gilmore, Moses, Lanier, and while I realize it would not be much, even Walton.

I think we need to more info on that period in NBA history.

[PHILA]

Interesting how he thinks Kareem was harder to guard and had a better repertoire but still considers Wilt the greatest scorer
I guess he learned some of Wilt's moves during their time together in San Francisco. Plus KAJ especially in the early years was so quick off the dribble, like Olajuwon or Robinson. That kind of smooth mobility will pose a problem for any big man defender.


http://s23.postimg.org/pqxargh95/Thurmond_blocks_Wilt.gif

[fpliii]

Unfortunately, at least IMO, Gilmore's defense peaked in his ABA years. By the time he joined the NBA, he was 27, which is generally near a player's prime, but typically, a player has their best rebounding and shot-blocking seasons earlier in their careers.

But I would say that he was still a defensive force in his first three years in the NBA ('77, '78, and '79.)

I recall watching a Lakers-Bulls game on YouTube, which took place around 1979 (or so), and I remember the announcer claiming that no one gave KAJ more problems, that Gilmore. Now, granted, that was just the beginning of the Moses era, and clearly, no other player abused KAJ more than Moses did, but for that time frame, it was still impressive.

Now, I have a project for you, in your spare time, and at your convenience...

I think it would be interesting to pull up as much h2h info between the great centers of the 70's (and even into the 80's.)

McAdoo, KAJ, Gilmore, Moses, Lanier, and while I realize it would not be much, even Walton.

I think we need to more info on that period in NBA history.

Thanks for your response.

RE: Your project suggestion, I'll have time either after this month or next month (meaning in September or October). At the moment we're trying to dump as many seasons worth of games (synopses + box scores, game by game, for each team) as are available (for stat spreadsheets and to fill out gamelogs). After we've exhausted newspaperarchive.com, it'll be easier to just go through our database and look up numbers to fill out spreadsheets. So I don't want to make promises since I don't know how much time I'll have, but I'd probably have time to do so after finishing up the current archive dumping.

One other thing (for perhaps yourself or someone else to answer): I was looking or a book on Nate (the synopses/box scores/YouTube are nice, but I'd like to read more), but there doesn't seem to be one out there. This was disappointing, but then I got into thinking about other players about whom I don't have anything in my library. The biggest travesty is there doesn't seem to be ANYTHING written on Baylor. I'm not talking just autobiographies (which are always preferable IMO), but literally nothing has been written with him as the subject. I hope I'm wrong, but it seems like that's the case.

[sportjames23]

Nothing to see here folks, just the salty opinion of a weak 6 foot white guy from Wilt's era that Wilt mercilessly preyed on.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IlubSSwQ0yY/UPzbjLxgbzI/AAAAAAAAEA8/Lz0OunkNBbQ/s800/Nate%2520Thurmond1.jpg

:lol


Damn, even back then Nate looked like he had that old man strength. :bowdown:

[LAZERUSS]

Thanks for your response.

RE: Your project suggestion, I'll have time either after this month or next month (meaning in September or October). At the moment we're trying to dump as many seasons worth of games (synopses + box scores, game by game, for each team) as are available (for stat spreadsheets and to fill out gamelogs). After we've exhausted newspaperarchive.com, it'll be easier to just go through our database and look up numbers to fill out spreadsheets. So I don't want to make promises since I don't know how much time I'll have, but I'd probably have time to do so after finishing up the current archive dumping.

One other thing (for perhaps yourself or someone else to answer): I was looking or a book on Nate (the synopses/box scores/YouTube are nice, but I'd like to read more), but there doesn't seem to be one out there. This was disappointing, but then I got into thinking about other players about whom I don't have anything in my library. The biggest travesty is there doesn't seem to be ANYTHING written on Baylor. I'm not talking just autobiographies (which are always preferable IMO), but literally nothing has been written with him as the subject. I hope I'm wrong, but it seems like that's the case.

As always, I appreciate your efforts. You (and your fellow researchers) have become THE source for indepth statistical information regarding the past NBA greats. The Russell-Wilt h2h info was just outstanding (and yes, I agree that pure stats clearly don't provide us with everything, but at least it is a solid foundation.)

It just seems that the mid-70's thru the early 80's has become somewhat of a "dark age" in the history of the NBA. BB-Reference can provide scoring numbers, but little else. Whatever else you and your fellow stats mavens can come up with, it would surely be appreciated (and hopefully at some point, appreciated as an "official" resource, and available to all.)

As for the Thurmond and Baylor books... you're right. I can't recall much, if anything. It's too bad that I threw out all of my old sports magazines of the late 60's, 70's, and 80's, (like Street&Smith's, or SI's preview publications, etc...including college articles), becase I'm positive that they had many enlightning articles on the players of those eras.

[La Frescobaldi]

Random question - How would you compare Thurmond to Artis Gilmore stylistically on defense (Nate was certainly more effective on that end IMO, but I'm interested in hearing your piece)?

Nate was better than A-Train at team defense. Nate's voice would get all gravelly as a game went on.... that voice was a lash to his teammates, getting them into the proper positions, layering the defense so guards had to get through two or three guys before Nate lowered the boom right down on their heads. Gilmore was more "in the system" where Nate WAS the system in some ways.

But one-on-one? I doubt there's been very many Centers that could handle Nate at his best. Shaq & Wilt surely, possibly Moses too .... a better study, to me would be Nate vs. Hakeem rather than the great Artis. Nate is much closer to Bill Russell's style - and quality - than he is to Artis.

Gilmore was a great rim protecter, and in his earlier years a real speedster in the transition; he was incredibly strong and once he had position on you..... it was over, you might as well do something else. But he didn't get the full dose of Chamberlain Russell Reed Bells like Nate did and possibly spending his years in the ABA gave him a different perspective than he might have had if he had come straight to the NBA. Different style over there

[fpliii]

Nate was better than A-Train at team defense. Nate's voice would get all gravelly as a game went on.... that voice was a lash to his teammates, getting them into the proper positions, layering the defense so guards had to get through two or three guys before Nate lowered the boom right down on their heads. Gilmore was more "in the system" where Nate WAS the system in some ways.

But one-on-one? I doubt there's been very many Centers that could handle Nate at his best. Shaq & Wilt surely, possibly Moses too .... a better study, to me would be Nate vs. Hakeem rather than the great Artis. Nate is much closer to Bill Russell's style - and quality - than he is to Artis.

Gilmore was a great rim protecter, and in his earlier years a real speedster in the transition; he was incredibly strong and once he had position on you..... it was over, you might as well do something else. But he didn't get the full dose of Chamberlain Russell Reed Bells like Nate did and possibly spending his years in the ABA gave him a different perspective than he might have had if he had come straight to the NBA. Different style over there

Thanks for the response, great information from yourself and jlauber on the matter.

[senelcoolidge]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb1t37E9YY1rcm51co1_500.jpg

That's obviously photo shopped. Thurmond was a 6 foot 2 white unathletic center, which were very common in the 60's. Good job.

[LAZERUSS]

For those who might be interested...(and thanks to Julizaver)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=291462


I am posting the aggregated stats of Kareem against Nate Thurmond during the period 1969 - 1973 season by season, as in that period both players met 3 times in the playoffs and in total of 34 times (including the regular season meetings):

1969 - 1970 (Kareem's rookie season) 3 games - reg.season

Kareem - 42.0 mpg 21.67 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 4.0 apg, 0.348 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 46.7 mpg 20.67 ppg, 17.0 rpg, 3.3 apg, 0.490 FG/FGA




1970 - 1971 6 games - reg.season

Kareem - 26.67 ppg, 14.7 rpg, 0.484 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 23.83 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 0.477 FG/FGA


1970 - 1971 5 games - playoffs

Kareem - 39.2 mpg 27.8 ppg, 15.6 rpg, 0.6 apg, 0.486 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 38.4 mpg 17.60 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 3.0 apg, 0.371 FG/FGA




1971 - 1972 3 games - reg.season

Kareem - 24.00 ppg, 16.3 rpg, 0.441 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 16.33 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 0.260 FG/FGA


1971 - 1972 5 games - playoffs

Kareem - 47.0 mpg 22.8 ppg, 19.0 rpg, 5.4 apg, 0.405 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 46.0 mpg 25.40 ppg, 17.8 rpg, 5.2 apg, 0.434 FG/FGA




1972 - 1973 6 games - reg.season

Kareem - 25.83 ppg, 13.7 rpg, 0.488 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 13.67 ppg, 15.0 rpg, 0.367 FG/FGA


1972 - 1973 6 games - playoffs

Kareem - 46.0 mpg 22.83 ppg, 16.2 rpg, 2.8 apg, 0.428 FG/FGA

Nate ---- 42.5 mpg 13.5 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 3.2 apg, 0.423 FG/FGA

[Blue&Orange]

So at least there were 4 real centers back then!
Well that's 4 times more than today.


weak era.

[Pushxx]

Great interview. Repped.

[jongib369]

KAJ and Thurmond had 40 h2h games, and Kareem had a total of seven games of 30+ against Thurmond (and seven below 20 BTW), with a high game of 34 points.

A prime Chamberlain, from their last h2h in the 64-65 season, thru their nine h2h's in the 65-66 season, and even including their first h2h in the 66-67 season (in a season in which Wilt dramatically cut back his scoring), and covering 11 straight games, had six with 30+, including outscoring Nate by margins of 33-17, 33-10, 38-15, and 45-13.

Kareem had three straight playoff series in which he shot .486, .428, and .405 against Thurmond. In his three playoff series against Thurmond, Chamberlain outshot Nate by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and .560 to .343 (and the last one was in Nate's greatest season.)
Have you ever seen or heard Bill Russell comment on Thurmond? When I get the chance to I'd like to check out their head2head

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Great interview until he called Oscar and Jordan better than Wilt:facepalm :facepalm :biggums:

[feyki]

Pleasure to read .