this is why Larry Legend is the GOAT SF

[jzek]

In a game in Washington, D. C. against the Bullets in 1987, the Celtics trailed the Bullets by 3 points with 6 seconds remaining in regulation. A three-pointer by Bird had been waved off because their coach, K. C. Jones, had already called a timeout. Bird then made another three-pointer to send the game into overtime. When the Celtics trailed by two points near the end of the first overtime, Bird was fouled and converted both free throws. In the second overtime, trailing by 1 point with 2 seconds remaining, Bird made a buzzer-beating running shot to win the game, 140–139.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmmrcY4NxCM&t=1m13s



There was a timeout with 13 seconds left in a tied game against the Seattle Supersonics (remember them?). Bird told head coach KC Jones to just give him the ball and tell everyone else to get out of the way.

Bird then walked onto the court and told Xavier McDaniel, who was guarding him, “I’m going to get [the ball] right here and I am going to shoot it in your face.” As McDaniel remembers it, he responded by saying, “I know, I’ll be waiting.”

Then in about that exact same spot, Bird gets the ball and buries a shot right in McDaniel’s face, turns to Xavier and says, “I didn’t mean to leave two seconds on the clock.” McDaniel said of that play, “He wanted to shoot it with zero seconds on the clock. I just walked back to the sidelines, like damn.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6sLMupoQLQ


We've seen players take free throws with their eyes closed, centers orchestrate fast breaks, and plenty of other attempts at showing off how truly talented players are. None of them, however, come close to touching Larry Bird's famed Left-Handed Game.

Having won 14 of 15 games heading into Portland on Feb. 14, 1986, legend has it that Bird became a bit bored with making those wins look so easy. So what did he do? He played left-handed. That's correct; the right-handed forward chose to shoot the ball left-handed throughout the contest, mostly with shots anywhere around the paint. However, only astute onlookers would have realized this in the midst of the game. Why, you might ask? Well, because Bird still managed to pour in 47 points, grabbed 14 rebounds and dished out 11 assists (21-34 FG) and sent the game to overtime and then drilled the game-winner in OT. Not bad.

The night before in Seattle he had 35/15/11, so this was his second consecutive triple double in just as many nights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R76nMD8buR8


More:

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rg1sFMxnbM
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vHEWOqdyTg

[LosScandalous]

That is an absolute myth and all these guys can buy into it, but there’s a young man from Akron Ohio, that is not signing up on that bandwagon.

Bird gets the legacy and era advantage but LeBron's peak and future is better than Bird's. I do think Bird would dominate todays zone though.

Both had stacked teams but Bird never lead a scrub team to the finals (see 2007 cavs).

[Soundwave]

The mental focus the greats of the 80s/90s really shames today's mental midget superstars (LeBron, DRose, Dwight, Wade).

Can't see any of them having the balls to say something like that and then back it up by hitting the big shot.

[jlip]

[QUOTE=LosScandalous]That is an absolute myth and all these guys can buy into it, but there

[LosScandalous]

Bird was the primarily catalyst for a Celtics team going from 29-53 the season before he was drafted to 61-21 his rookie year making it to the ECF.

You won't see me ever argue LeBron's rookie season over Bird's but he nearly got swept in that ECF by a lower seeded 6ers team. I'm not even a LeBron fan but I give him a lot of credit for leading the 07' cavs team to the promise land w/Larry Hughes as a second option. 1980 Celtics lineup wasn't full of scrubs neither though.

[KyrieTheFuture]

As awesome as this is, my absolute favorite Larry moment was the merry christmas shot

Edit: Also, I love LeBron, but Larry would never ever pull a 2011 like LeBron James did. Or a 2010.

[tikay0]

Larry Bird will forever be the GOAT SF. Only bandwagon, Justin Bieber fans will disagree.

[The Iron Fist]

You won't see me ever argue LeBron's rookie season over Bird's but he nearly got swept in that ECF by a lower seeded 6ers team. I'm not even a LeBron fan but I give him a lot of credit for leading the 07' cavs team to the promise land w/Larry Hughes as a second option. 1980 Celtics lineup wasn't full of scrubs neither though.
:roll: a lot of credit for beating 2 .500 teams ??.:facepalm

[Round Mound]

[B]He

[bdreason]

[QUOTE=LosScandalous]That is an absolute myth and all these guys can buy into it, but there

[sportjames23]

If this Legend character is GOAT SF.. then he must be > Michael Jordan.


Bird has a better claim to that than Lebron does.

I swear, you stans don't quit. :oldlol:

[Harison]

Larry Bird will forever be the GOAT SF. Only bandwagon, Justin Bieber fans will disagree.

This.


Prime Larry Bird would be the best player in the NBA today.

and this.

[Marchesk]

For being so unathletic, it's interesting that Bird was a superior rebounder to Lebron, and averaged the same amount of steals and blocks.

And here's Bird's famous steal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNpJXDPnQTE

[LAZERUSS]

I'm sorry, but Lebrons' resume, including post-season play, is already superior to Bird's, and LBJ probably has a good five more quality seasons left in him.

[Rooster]

For being so unathletic, it's interesting that Bird was a superior rebounder to Lebron, and averaged the same amount of steals and blocks.

And here's Bird's famous steal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNpJXDPnQTE

I believed Bird is the most skilled ever. I don't think anyone can do what he did sans athleticism and quickness. The way he zipped those passes , the way he pump fakes and step backs, the way he rebounds even though he can't jump over piece of paper, the way he steals even he was slow to begin with and of course no one can shoot better than him.

[sportjames23]

I'm sorry, but Lebrons' resume, including post-season play, is already superior to Bird's, and LBJ probably has a good five more quality seasons left in him.


:facepalm

[SamuraiSWISH]

It's a myth that Bird wasn't athletic. He wasn't a leaper, or insanely quick. But his body fluidity was insane.

[LAZERUSS]

:facepalm

Great argument.

:facepalm :facepalm

[Meticode]

I always liked Bird because he played the game a different way than what we're used to. He used fundamentals and basketball IQ to get what needed to get done. You just don't see that today very often. And the fact he played with so much heart to be the best during the era of Magic Johnson and he wanted that challenge makes him all the better. It's just not the rings, or the clutch shots, but it's the fact he wanted the challenge and when Magic left, Bird ultimately left too because they were some of the lasts of a dying breed of professional basketball players.

Magic and Bird saved the NBA. Thank you for the competitiveness guys.

[sportjames23]

Great argument.

:facepalm :facepalm


Compelling rebuttal.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Djahjaga]

It's a myth that Bird wasn't athletic. He wasn't a leaper, or insanely quick. But his body fluidity was insane.

This is a really good way to phrase it. I know exactly what you mean. Is this a technical/established term?

Especially early in his career, Bird had some serious spring in his step. Not that he would jump that high or anything (though he didn't have a 10 inch vert, as some people think), but he was quick on steals and diving for loose balls and rebounds. Fastest hands I've ever seen.

[9erempiree]

To be honest Larry plays like a girl. He was very good for his era but he looks like a girl playing.

This girl accurately depicted Larry's game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ3BdLkYjRA

His game is very effeminate. It's how I picture a girl would play.

[ILLsmak]

To be honest Larry plays like a girl. He was very good for his era but he looks like a girl playing.

This girl accurately depicted Larry's game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ3BdLkYjRA

His game is very effeminate. It's how I picture a girl would play.

if larry bird was a girl, I would **** her.

-Smak

[Fresh Kid]

Tha goat SF iz Larry Bird and Scottie Pippen to me.

[LosScandalous]

most underrated help defender of all time though


Bird blocks Jordan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqjYb64EOgI

[Djahjaga]

To be honest Larry plays like a girl. He was very good for his era but he looks like a girl playing.

This girl accurately depicted Larry's game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ3BdLkYjRA

His game is very effeminate. It's how I picture a girl would play.

:lol Is that you?

[9erempiree]

if larry bird was a girl, I would **** her.

-Smak

He plays like one.

I swear those running shots that the girl did was Larry's signature shot. It's so girly.

[Indian guy]

Stories are cute, but I will take actual production and accomplishments. And LeBron has clearly surpassed Bird on that front. The only argument for Bird now is "he played in the past!!!" and "I have cute stories to tell u!"

[Electric Slide]

Bird was deceptive and more athletic than you think.


-Said about every non black athlete.

[KungFuJoe]

Larry Bird would curb stomp Lebron James.

Anyone who thinks LBJ > Bird just started watching basketball recently.

[ILLsmak]

He plays like one.

I swear those running shots that the girl did was Larry's signature shot. It's so girly.

Nah, he's too physical. He was awkward looking tho. I could see he runs like a girl or shoots like a girl but the way he plays is not.

haha @ people saying Bron is better than Bird. I'm sorry yawl but it's just not true.

-Smak

[LEFT4DEAD]

I wonder why is Bird so overrated on this board? In 2 years there will be no discussion between him and James.

I mean, he did save the NBA with Magic, but the guy has been playing on the most talented team, and one of the most talented teams ever for a decade. It was the team with 4-5 HOFers. Forget about the Heat. They are not even close to being stacked as those Celtics teams.

And he managed to win 3 rings and 2 FMVPs. I swear, if any other top 10 player was on that team instead of Bird, they would win 5 championships at least. And not to mention that Cedric Maxwell took the finals MVP from him.

[ILLsmak]

I wonder why is Bird so overrated on this board? In 2 years there will be no discussion between him and James.

I mean, he did save the NBA with Magic, but the guy has been playing on the most talented team, and one of the most talented teams ever for a decade. It was the team with 4-5 HOFers. Forget about the Heat. They are not even close to being stacked as those Celtics teams.

And he managed to win 3 rings and 2 FMVPs. I swear, if any other top 10 player was on that team instead of Bird, they would win 5 championships at least. And not to mention that Cedric Maxwell took the finals MVP from him.


I disagree with this. In terms of other top 10 players, Bird was not on a stacked team. It was a good team, but nowhere near as good as LA was.

Those players are hall of Famers because of Bird. McHale was a monster, but who else was that good? They had a great front line and hard nosed D.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1981.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1984.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1986.html

Stacked... heh. That's why I rate Bird highly because the talent level he played with opposed to say, Magic, was much less.

Magic came into a team that an MVP already on it. Then they got Worthy who was his own sort of beast. Getting 3 rings in that era is WHY he is top 5 GOAT.

-Smak

[Cali Syndicate]

Bird would basically be a more perimeter style and overall better player of Dirk. Better ball handling and passing with just as good a midrange and post game while being a better rebounder. Defensively I would trust Bird far more on either SF's or PF's. Both thick in the clutch, but still I'd go with Legend on this one too.

Bird in his prime would be top 5 easily year in and year out.

And LOL at "played like a girl," Troll Obviously......but FYI anyways, Bird hustled hard on every play and was tough as nails.

[Cali Syndicate]

Nah, he's too physical. He was awkward looking tho. I could see he runs like a girl or shoots like a girl but the way he plays is not.

haha @ people saying Bron is better than Bird. I'm sorry yawl but it's just not true.

-Smak


if Bron isn't as good as Bird, then he's right there with him...and Lebron's right dab in his peak too. We'll see what happens. Bird tends to be underrated on this board by many.

[9erempiree]

Bird would basically be a more perimeter style and overall better player of Dirk. Better ball handling and passing with just as good a midrange and post game while being a better rebounder. Defensively I would trust Bird far more on either SF's or PF's. Both thick in the clutch, but still I'd go with Legend on this one too.

Bird in his prime would be top 5 easily year in and year out.

And LOL at "played like a girl," Troll Obviously......but FYI anyways, Bird hustled hard on every play and was tough as nails.

Nobody says he sucks like a girl. He was indeed very good during his time.

Aesthetically, he runs and shoots like a girl to me. It could be those tight uniforms and shorts. He reminds me of how a girl would play if they played amongst men.

[Lebron23]

I disagree with this. In terms of other top 10 players, Bird was not on a stacked team. It was a good team, but nowhere near as good as LA was.

Those players are hall of Famers because of Bird. McHale was a monster, but who else was that good? They had a great front line and hard nosed D.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1981.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1984.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1986.html

Stacked... heh. That's why I rate Bird highly because the talent level he played with opposed to say, Magic, was much less.

Magic came into a team that an MVP already on it. Then they got Worthy who was his own sort of beast. Getting 3 rings in that era is WHY he is top 5 GOAT.

-Smak

What are you talking about? Mchale finished top 3 in MVP voting during the 1986 NBA Season. And the lakers and Celtics were just head and shoulders above their competitions. That's why I am giving some major props to the Bab boys Pistons for beating these 2 teams in the playoffs.

Even the Legendary Bird said that LeBron has the potential to become the greatest player of all time. He said that he had the greatest playoffs run in playoffs history last year.

Both LBJ and LJB are tied as the best small forward right now. LeBron might surpass him next season if he wins another MVP, and if he has a dominant Finals performance against the Thunder, Clippers, Rockets, Spurs or whatever team advance in the Finals.

[Cali Syndicate]

Nobody says he sucks like a girl. He was indeed very good during his time.

Aesthetically, he runs and shoots like a girl to me. It could be those tight uniforms and shorts. He reminds me of how a girl would play if they played amongst men.

Yeah probably those short shorts.

[ILLsmak]

What are you talking about? Mchale finished top 3 in MVP voting during the 1986 NBA Season. And the lakers and Celtics were just head and shoulders above their competitions. That's why I am giving some major props to the Bab boys Pistons for beating these 2 teams in the playoffs.

Even the Legendary Bird said that LeBron has the potential to become the greatest player of all time. He said that he had the greatest playoffs run in playoffs history last year.

Both LBJ and LJB are tied as the best small forward right now. LeBron might surpass him next season if he wins another MVP, and if he has a dominant Finals performance against the Thunder, Clippers, Rockets, Spurs or whatever team advance in the Finals.

Ok, and compare them to the Lakers or even the 76ers. Who is better McHale or Kareem? McHale or Moses Malone?

I'm not saying their team wasn't good, but stacked... one of the best (outside of Bird) teams of all time? No way.

-Smak

[Lebron23]

Ok, and compare them to the Lakers or even the 76ers. Who is better McHale or Kareem? McHale or Moses Malone?

I'm not saying their team wasn't good, but stacked... one of the best (outside of Bird) teams of all time? No way.

-Smak

Mchale is as as good or even better than Kareem in his late 30's. Just look at Mchale's Finals stats. He was putting up better stats than some of the Finals MVP in NBA history.

[DJ Leon Smith]

[QUOTE=LosScandalous]That is an absolute myth and all these guys can buy into it, but there

[Rake2204]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R76nMD8buR8
Nice, I hadn't actually seen the left handed game before. It appears as if he scored about 20 of his 47 using the left, no? I admit a tinge of disappointment that he didn't fire a lefty jumper at any point, but I think he made up for it with a couple of lefty floaters and skyhooks.

[Pushxx]

I'll take Larry at SF all day. His rebounding, passing, shooting, intangibles, team defense, and dedication are unmatched.

You had to watch Bird to understand how he is better than LeBron. There's no other way to convince someone.

[stanlove1111]

Larry Bird would curb stomp Lebron James.

Anyone who thinks LBJ > Bird just started watching basketball recently.


I watched both their entire careers and they are 2 of my all time favorite players. Its not crazy to think either is better. To me its just too hard to compare them, they are too different. Not sure why anyone would have strong feeling either way about this.

[stanlove1111]

I wonder why is Bird so overrated on this board? In 2 years there will be no discussion between him and James.

I mean, he did save the NBA with Magic, but the guy has been playing on the most talented team, and one of the most talented teams ever for a decade. It was the team with 4-5 HOFers. Forget about the Heat. They are not even close to being stacked as those Celtics teams.

And he managed to win 3 rings and 2 FMVPs. I swear, if any other top 10 player was on that team instead of Bird, they would win 5 championships at least. And not to mention that Cedric Maxwell took the finals MVP from him.


Out f all the dumb arguments that I see constantly on this board the dumbest by far is the FMVP obsession. What the hell are you talking about? First all of why would it be held against Bird that a teammate had a great series. That's idiotic. Everybody knew who was easily the best player on the Celtics.. Can we shut up forever about FMVP talk like it really means a lot?

[ILLsmak]

Mchale is as as good or even better than Kareem in his late 30's. Just look at Mchale's Finals stats. He was putting up better stats than some of the Finals MVP in NBA history.

The first year Larry won, McHale wasn't on the team. The second, McHale didn't do much stat-wise.

Dude's obviously a top 50 player of all time, but I still stand by what I said. If you want to believe the Cs had as much talent as the Lakers then that's all you.

-Smak

[raprap]

I love larry but, lebron would eventually pass him as the goat sf.

[greymatter]

Lebron will go likely down as the overall better player due to better defense and accolades garnered due to superior durability and longevity. In any case, there will never be any question to who you would rather have as a teammate in his prime. Bird's skillset is simply a far superior fit for team basketball and success.

[SamuraiSWISH]

:lol Is that you?
9erempire looks good in her booty shorts while hooping, agreed?

[Djahjaga]

9erempire looks good in her booty shorts while hooping, agreed?

Haha definitely agreed.

[bizil]

Peak value wise, I think Lebron is the best SF EVER! Hell I've thought that for a few years now. GOAT wise, Bird dominated the SF spot for a long ass time. But even GOAT wise, Bron has a case on Bird too RIGHT NOW! Gotta remember Bird played 13 years in the L, and 11 healthy ones at that (Bird played only 45 games one year and 6 games another). Bron has played 10 years ALL pretty much healthy the whole time. So it's time for Bron to seriously be considered as the GOAT SF RIGHT NOW. Bron's 2 rings, 2 gold medals, 4 MVPs, and 2 finals MVP's stack up great already. On top of his career averages of course. Bird had 21,791 career points to Lebron's 21,081 career points. And don't sleep on Durant coming down the pike in a few years as well. Peak value wise or best player wise, Bron, Bird, Doc, Baylor, Barry, and Durant are the best SF's EVER in my book. GOAT wise Bird, Bron, Doc, Hondo, and Baylor. Bron passes Bird by FOR SURE this season. Even without a ring! Only thing stopping it is if Bron gets hurt. If Bird could have had 3-4 more healthy seasons, Bron would have more ground to cover GOAT wise. But even at that, I feel Bron is the best SF (talent wise or best player wise) to ever play the game PERIOD!

But I still feel that the GOAT SF ever in PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL (not just NBA) is still Doc. You throw in his ABA years and he has a greater resume than anybody. It's a shame he gets penalized somewhat for being in ABA first. But the NBA absorbed ABA teams and ideas. (three pointer, dunk contest, All-Star weekend concept) So I understand why Bird was rated GOAT SF due to the NBA being the dominant league. But as a whole in the HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL, Doc is STILL THE GOAT TO ME. He's the guy Bron has to pass for that, not Bird necessarily.

[bizil]

I'll take Larry at SF all day. His rebounding, passing, shooting, intangibles, team defense, and dedication are unmatched.

You had to watch Bird to understand how he is better than LeBron. There's no other way to convince someone.

But Bron's athletic ability, defensive versatility, passing, and rebounding as a package is unmatched. Bird COULD NEVER DREAM of doing the things Bron can do on a basketball court. I concede Bird is the better shooter and MAYBE better rebounder. And more clutch with a big shot. But Bron is able to play AND defend virtually every position. Something Bird could never dream of doing. And numbers wise, Bron is just as good as Bird scoring the rock. U can't go wrong either way, but give me Bron. Can simply plug more holes WHILE being the ULTIMATE FREAK ATHLETE to EVER play the sport!

[bizil]

I believed Bird is the most skilled ever. I don't think anyone can do what he did sans athleticism and quickness. The way he zipped those passes , the way he pump fakes and step backs, the way he rebounds even though he can't jump over piece of paper, the way he steals even he was slow to begin with and of course no one can shoot better than him.

Great point! Now from a technical level, Bird is likely the most skilled ever. Bird is arguably the greatest shooter ever, right with Bron as the greatest passing forward ever. He did have the epic footwork, fakes, tricks, craftiness, etc. But if u look at their numbers, Bird and Bron are actually very similar in terms of the big three stats of points, boards, and assists. Plus Bird's career did come to an early end with only 11 healthy seasons. Bron already has 10 healthy seasons (meaning at least playing 60 games and up a year)

[bizil]

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]He

[Lebron23]

Bizil needs to be a moderator. He's smart.

[Harison]

I watched both their entire careers and they are 2 of my all time favorite players. Its not crazy to think either is better. To me its just too hard to compare them, they are too different. Not sure why anyone would have strong feeling either way about this.

Its the same as Kobe vs Jordan. It IS crazy to think Kobe is better as a player, same with Lebron vs Bird. Any veteran basketball fan will take Bird 10/10 instead of LBJ, but of course kids who just started watching will think otherwise. Oh, and same applies to kids Kobe fans in MJ debates. :lol

[bizil]

Its the same as Kobe vs Jordan. It IS crazy to think Kobe is better as a player, same with Lebron vs Bird. Any veteran basketball fan will take Bird 10/10 instead of LBJ, but of course kids who just started watching will think otherwise. Oh, and same applies to kids Kobe fans in MJ debates. :lol

I'm in my mid 30's. Sure u have many older than me on this post who know just as much or more. Hell there are some youngsters out there who are wise beyond their years and know their shit (I used to be one. I was checking out Basketball Digest and Sports Illustrated while other kids were readimg kiddie books lol). Kobe is the closest thing to MJ, but I give the nod to MJ. Talent wise Kobe is damn damn close in my book. And Kobe's resume minus MVP awards is epic as well. But ya give me MJ over Kobe peak value and GOAT wise.

Bron has a better case over Bird though. Peak value wise I would take Lebron flat out. Five or six years ago I wouldn't have said that. But Bron is the most versatile player of all time. He actually took the things Bird and Magic did in their runs in terms of that triple double versatility, leadership, and great team play and took it to the next level. Bird and Magic can't touch the things Bron can do on defense. Or overpower opponents with freak athletic ability.

That's frankly the difference between Bron and those guys. U could go either way, but at this point give me Bron over Bird peak value wise. And GOAT wise (which is the big daddy and what the HOF dictates), Bron is gonna REALLY have the upper hand on Bird. He arguably has the upper hand on Bird GOAT now at this point. Put Bron's resume up against Bird's resume and u will see EXACTLY what myself and others are talking about. So HOF wise, Bron already had pretty much matched Bird already and will CLEARLY be past him as early as next season. And to think Bron is just hitting his peak years is very very scary. And has the versatility to move to different positions depending on the situation and DOMINATE!!

[bizil]

I think the thing people don't really grasp is GOAT vs. peak value-best player. GOAT is your resume (solo accolades, team accolades, numbers, talent, longevity being great). Peak value is your flat out talent and what u do between the lines on your own merit. A great player might be on a bad to average team. MVPs, All Star Games, and All-NBA teams while great honors are OPINION BASED! So in my book, I would roll with Bron peak value wise over Bird. I simply think Bron is the best player to ever play the SF position. Bird I feel is 2nd best SF after a run of basically over 20 years in that spot. GOAT wise, it looks like Bron is gonna blow Bird outta the water it seems.

I mean Bron could possibly be the All Time leading scorer around 40,000 to go with 10,000 rebounds and at least 10,000 assists. Nobody even has 20,000 points and 10,000 assists! LMBAO So u gotta put shit in perspective when u say Bird will ALWAYS be the GOAT SF! Bird has a better argument as the best or peak value SF as the years go on. Cause Bron's resume is gonna be CRAZY when he hangs it up! And even peak value wise, Bron has room to get better. For example, T-Mac in my book is arguably the third or four best SG ever PEAK VALUE WISE. But GOAT wise, he's not even a top 10 SG. The only SF's I've seen with my own two eyes better than Durant are Bron and Bird. And historically Barry and Baylor are of course right there. But GOAT wise, Durant isn't a top 10 GOAT SF yet.

[bizil]

Bizil needs to be a moderator. He's smart.

Thanks for the props bro! U drop some knowledge on here too!

[havoc33]

You won't see me ever argue LeBron's rookie season over Bird's but he nearly got swept in that ECF by a lower seeded 6ers team. I'm not even a LeBron fan but I give him a lot of credit for leading the 07' cavs team to the promise land w/Larry Hughes as a second option. 1980 Celtics lineup wasn't full of scrubs neither though.The Eastern Conference, for more than a decade now, has been HORRIBLY weak though. No doubt Lebron took some advantage from that.

[Fresh Kid]

Larry bird and Scottie pippen are The top two SF to me, but I can't lie even though Lebron took the easy way out he's right behind them.

[havoc33]

Out f all the dumb arguments that I see constantly on this board the dumbest by far is the FMVP obsession. What the hell are you talking about? First all of why would it be held against Bird that a teammate had a great series. That's idiotic. Everybody knew who was easily the best player on the Celtics.. Can we shut up forever about FMVP talk like it really means a lot?
This is actually so true. It's all about matchups and strategy. Sometimes a team decides to totally isolate the other teams star player(s), and make someone else beat them. That obviously does not mean that the eventual Finals MVP is any better than the star player though, nor that the star player performed like shit. It's all about which opportunities present themselves.

[SHAQisGOAT]

But Bron's athletic ability, defensive versatility, passing, and rebounding as a package is unmatched. Bird COULD NEVER DREAM of doing the things Bron can do on a basketball court. I concede Bird is the better shooter and MAYBE better rebounder. And more clutch with a big shot. But Bron is able to play AND defend virtually every position. Something Bird could never dream of doing. And numbers wise, Bron is just as good as Bird scoring the rock. U can't go wrong either way, but give me Bron. Can simply plug more holes WHILE being the ULTIMATE FREAK ATHLETE to EVER play the sport!

Lebron also COULD NEVER DREAM of doing many things Bird did, more than the other way around seriously.
MAYBE better rebounder? Lol, no maybe's about that.
And that defend every position is bs... If you were the Lakers coach you could also have Nash guarding any player you want, doesn't mean he's gonna do a good job, that's just an example, a hyperbole though, Lebron's one of the most versatile defenders ever. Let's not forget that Larry is one of the GOAT's as far as team D though.
Scoring is a wash I agree, LeBron's more versatile, better overall defender, more athletic and that brings a lot with it not gonna mention it all.
BUT let's not act like being a better shooter, having a better postgame, better footwork, being a better rebounder, better passer (not far at all though), more clutch, having better overall intangibles... it's not major. Plus Bird didn't need to change other players' games (Bosh as a 3pt shooter to spread the line), he could dominate the same in numerous different ways, and he didn't have to be ball-dominant to make his impact.
It's pretty close but Bird had a better peak, I think that most that have seen both would agree.

[cavsfanatic]

I never seen Bird play LIVE so I can't say if he is better than Bron or not. I'd say that Lebron is the best player I've seen since Mj retired though.

[boozehound]

Gotta agree. Larry Bird is the GOATSE

[f0und]

Its the same as Kobe vs Jordan. It IS crazy to think Kobe is better as a player, same with Lebron vs Bird. Any veteran basketball fan will take Bird 10/10 instead of LBJ, but of course kids who just started watching will think otherwise. Oh, and same applies to kids Kobe fans in MJ debates. :lol

its definitely not the same. not even close. bron is MUCH more closer to bird than kobe is to jordan. comparing bron to bird is a legit argument. comparing kobe to jordan is a joke.

[ProfessorMurder]

Lebron also COULD NEVER DREAM of doing many things Bird did, more than the other way around seriously.
MAYBE better rebounder? Lol, no maybe's about that.
And that defend every position is bs... If you were the Lakers coach you could also have Nash guarding any player you want, doesn't mean he's gonna do a good job, that's just an example, a hyperbole though, Lebron's one of the most versatile defenders ever. Let's not forget that Larry is one of the GOAT's as far as team D though.
Scoring is a wash I agree, LeBron's more versatile, better overall defender, more athletic and that brings a lot with it not gonna mention it all.
BUT let's not act like being a better shooter, having a better postgame, better footwork, being a better rebounder, better passer (not far at all though), more clutch, having better overall intangibles... it's not major. Plus Bird didn't need to change other players' games (Bosh as a 3pt shooter to spread the line), he could dominate the same in numerous different ways, and he didn't have to be ball-dominant to make his impact.
It's pretty close but Bird had a better peak, I think that most that have seen both would agree.

LeBron can't guard 1s, real 4s like David West, or 5s. He can guard 2s and 3s. It's such bullshit that people act like he's some defensive stopper.

[bizil]

Lebron also COULD NEVER DREAM of doing many things Bird did, more than the other way around seriously.
MAYBE better rebounder? Lol, no maybe's about that.
And that defend every position is bs... If you were the Lakers coach you could also have Nash guarding any player you want, doesn't mean he's gonna do a good job, that's just an example, a hyperbole though, Lebron's one of the most versatile defenders ever. Let's not forget that Larry is one of the GOAT's as far as team D though.
Scoring is a wash I agree, LeBron's more versatile, better overall defender, more athletic and that brings a lot with it not gonna mention it all.
BUT let's not act like being a better shooter, having a better postgame, better footwork, being a better rebounder, better passer (not far at all though), more clutch, having better overall intangibles... it's not major. Plus Bird didn't need to change other players' games (Bosh as a 3pt shooter to spread the line), he could dominate the same in numerous different ways, and he didn't have to be ball-dominant to make his impact.
It's pretty close but Bird had a better peak, I think that most that have seen both would agree.

The thing is Lebron is STILL GETTING BETTER! Secondly, it takes guy like Rodman or possibly young KG to stand up to Lebron's versatility. The only position that gives Bron the most trouble defense wise would be a big dominant C. But guess what, centers as a whole ain't what they used to be. So Bron defending every position virtually is NO BS! It's a damn fact!

In my previous post in this thread, I said Bird from a technical standpoint could be the most skilled ever. Bron is on Bird's level as far as passing, to be a bit better due to being able to create better off the dribble. Bron has PG handles and burst, something Bird NEVER HAD! What do you mean most who have seen Bird would agree he has a better peak? Four or five years ago I could see Bird being better than Bron but not now. I don't think MOST would say Bird is clearly better than Bron peak value wise. If u got a panel of those who know the game THAT COVERS A WIDE RANGE OF AGES, it would be damn close. Once again, Bron could come closer to doing what Bird does BEFORE Bird could EVER do things Bron could do.

[bizil]

LeBron can't guard 1s, real 4s like David West, or 5s. He can guard 2s and 3s. It's such bullshit that people act like he's some defensive stopper.

Bron CAN guard 1's and guard 4's well enough to guard them most of the game! lol Now a for real big dominant C or a big power forward like a Duncan is different. Do u guys realize Bron is the size of Karl Malone basically? So him guarding David West is no stretch at all. But Bron is asked to do so much on the court that it will wear him out. No PF's are asked to do the things Bron does. Plus Bron's really a SF first who can play PG, SG, and SF on offense and defense. But ya, I would rather have Bron defend high scoring perimeter players first. But that DOESN'T mean he can't defend PG or PF either. But ya typically, I would rather have Chalmers chase Tony Parker, Paul, etc. around than Lebron. Guys like Bron, Pippen, and Rodman can defend multiple positions very good and some great. Plus it depends ACTUALLY on who the PG is that night.

[jlip]

LeBron can't guard 1s, real 4s like David West, or 5s. He can guard 2s and 3s. It's such bullshit that people act like he's some defensive stopper.

Except for the fact that he did those things just a couple of months ago. Did you not see him guard Parker in the Finals? What about Rose in the '11 ECF? Also, he did a decent job on David West in the stretches he was assigned to him in the ECF this season.

[K Xerxes]

I'll admit I haven't watched Bird live (I have seen a lot of tapes about him though), but I think it's absurd to suggest it isn't close either way.

You're looking at two very comparable all around players. They're both very similar scorers - Bird is a better shooter, LeBron is a better driver and finisher. Bird probably has the edge on rebounding and passing, but LeBron is a better man defender and team defender.

Their peaks are very close, but I give the slight edge to Bird because he was a better off the ball player, while LeBron usually needs the ball in his hands to maximise his effectiveness. Aside from Jordan, they have the best non-big peaks IMO.

However, if I was to pick a player to start my franchise, it'd be LeBron. Bird had his injury and longevity issues - LeBron seems pretty indestructable (so far) and so could probably give me more over an NBA career.

[KingLeBronJames]

Who cares about Larry Bird now a days? He's a has been. LeBron is the GOAT S now. Deal with it.

[pudman13]

Bron is right there and maybe even a better passer.
I watched Bird his entire career and Bron most of his and it's not even close. Bird was not only the better passer of these two, I believe he was the best passer the game has ever seen (I haven't seen enough of Oscar to judge, so I'm keeping this an "I believe"), and that includes Magic and Stockton.

[Greg Oden 50]

Who cares about Larry Bird now a days? He's a has been. LeBron is the GOAT S now. Deal with it.
IN AN MUCH WEAKEER ERA :roll:

[Greg Oden 50]

Bron CAN guard 1's and guard 4's well enough to guard them most of the game! lol Now a for real big dominant C or a big power forward like a Duncan is different. Do u guys realize Bron is the size of Karl Malone basically? So him guarding David West is no stretch at all. But Bron is asked to do so much on the court that it will wear him out. No PF's are asked to do the things Bron does. Plus Bron's really a SF first who can play PG, SG, and SF on offense and defense. But ya, I would rather have Bron defend high scoring perimeter players first. But that DOESN'T mean he can't defend PG or PF either. But ya typically, I would rather have Chalmers chase Tony Parker, Paul, etc. around than Lebron. Guys like Bron, Pippen, and Rodman can defend multiple positions very good and some great. Plus it depends ACTUALLY on who the PG is that night.

LrBron James's defence is vastly overrated:no:

[bizil]

I watched Bird his entire career and Bron most of his and it's not even close. Bird was not only the better passer of these two, I believe he was the best passer the game has ever seen (I haven't seen enough of Oscar to judge, so I'm keeping this an "I believe"), and that includes Magic and Stockton.

It's not EVEN CLOSE! That's a very wrong and inaccurate statement to make! GOAT wise u GOTTA concede Bron has case over Bird. Their current peak values are arguable no doubt. But Bron's accomplishments ALREADY STACK UP TO BIRD! U do realize Bird played 11 healthy years and Bron has played 10. So even if u think Bird is the better player peak wise, Bron is right there with him GOAT (team accolades, solo accolades, numbers, longevity being great). And for u to say Bird is a better passer than Magic or Stockton I gotta disagree with. Magic, Stockton, and even Bron for that matter can create off the dribble better than Bird. Especially in transition. But Bird is still CLEARLY one of the best passers of all time. And I have no problem with u thinking Bird is better peak value wise. But for u to say it's not close is an insane statement to make! And by the way, Bird's reign as GOAT SF is about up, if it's not up already! GOAT status is THE KEY STATUS to making the HOF, not peak value!

[bizil]

LrBron James's defence is vastly overrated:no:

Lebron is clearly one of the premier wing defenders currently and ARGUABLY the most versatile ever. He may not be Bowen, Rodman, or Pippen, but Bron still qualifies as a great defender. And Bron is the best player in the world!

[LAZERUSS]

Just compare the two resumes. I'm sorry, but in almost every category, Lebron has had a better career.

The real question is...just where will most historians rank Lebron after he finally retires.

[Greg Oden 50]

Lebron is clearly one of the premier wing defenders currently and ARGUABLY the most versatile ever. He may not be Bowen, Rodman, or Pippen, but Bron still qualifies as a great defender. And Bron is the best player in the world!

great help defender & below average man defence :no:

[Greg Oden 50]

PRIME SHAQ WILL EAT LBBRON JAMES'S ALIVE :roll: