People Don't Think This is a Contender?

[eliteballer]

G: Raymond Felton / Pablo Prigioni / Beno Udrih
G: Iman Shumpert / JR Smith / Tim Hardaway Jr
F: Carmelo Anthony / Metta World Peace / CJ Leslie
F: Andrea Bargnani / Amar'e Stoudemire / Jeremy Tyler
C: Tyson Chandler / Kenyon Martin /

Looks pretty legit to me...you've got size, depth, outside shooting, athleticism, a proven go-to guy all on an improved roster that won 54 games last year while being riddled with injuries

[Jameerthefear]

The Knicks are not contenders, but they look pretty good on paper.

[TylerOO]

Nope.

[NumberSix]

Not at all.

[longtime lurker]

It literally all depends on Amare's knees. They'll have no problem scoring, but rebounding and defense if Chandler goes down is a worry.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

3 bench players and the most overrated 'star' in the NBA in their starting lineup.

[kamil]

They've got Bargnani. That alone is going to hold them back. The dude is a cancer. Raptors actually played BETTER without that scrub.

[Real Men Wear Green]

No, i do not think that team is capable if beating a healthy Heat 4 out of 7 contests, so i do not believe they are a contender.

[Heavincent]

F: Andrea Bargnani / Amar'e Stoudemire / Jeremy Tyler


That's pretty dreadful.

The Knicks are a pretty good team though. Just not championship contenders.

[LosScandalous]

Yes, everybody is only going to get better. its sickening how underrated the Knicks are every year.

[KNOW1EDGE]

contend for what?

They aren't going to beat the Heat, Pacers or Nets in a 7 game series.

Felton is not very good. I don't know when/where he got so overrated. Shumpert is pretty good, JR Smith is a scorer, no defense whatsoever.. Melo is a scorer, black hole, poor defense. Bargs is garbage. Amare is hurt. Chandler is decent. There team just doesn't fit together well. A bunch of me-first players with poor attitudes. No possible way they get to the ECF.

[Xiao Yao You]

playoff contender yes

[plowking]

Wow, you know Amare has fallen off when Bargs is being tipped to start ahead of him. So glad we went with Bosh.

[MetsPackers]

Defense and rebounding win championships, two things the Knicks are severely lacking in. Their ceiling is last years Warriors; solid pretenders, but not contenders

I can not stress enough how terrible Amare is now also. He's a black hole on offense and is so terrible at defense that the opposing team literally goes at him every time. He can't rebound for shit either, and his new counterpart, Bargs (fvck him), is exactly the same but with more range to blackhole with.

Obviously Tyson can rebound but he can only be on the court so many minutes and is nearly guaranteed to miss like 15 games. I really just don't see it with this team. What it really all boils down to is can they beat Miami? And no, they can't. Contenders they are not.

This team needs to be blown the fvck up. Keep Shump, Hardaway, Chandler, and the guys making little money if you want, and get rid of everyone else. Maybe Felton can stay if they pay every mcdonalds in NY not to serve him. Then rebuild with an actual plan, not just throwing names together

[Wavves]

They are full of talent, but are not contenders at all.

[outbreak]

even barring all the injuries they will have they are still not a legit contender when healthy imo

[imdaman99]

if they can find a way to play the heat in the playoffs next year, they've got a shot. i dont understand how you can be the only team with a winning record against a team that won 66 games and the championship (knicks went 3-1 against them), having won 54 games yourself and only improved with moves in the offseason, and not be called contenders.

[andremiller07]

They scary as on 2k14 if that's the roster not looking forward to facing them when the game is out. I think in real life though they are better than last year they upgraded the PG spot and Shumpert will be healthy but it's hard to see them beating out the Pacers or Heat.

[Legends66NBA7]

if they can find a way to play the heat in the playoffs next year, they've got a shot. i dont understand how you can be the only team with a winning record against a team that won 66 games and the championship (knicks went 3-1 against them), having won 54 games yourself and only improved with moves in the offseason, and not be called contenders.

Even if they face Miami (which they won't win), how are they going to beat Indiana and Brooklyn ? How do they beat the Bulls who they went 0-4 against without Rose ? All those teams got better too.

[Real Men Wear Green]

if they can find a way to play the heat in the playoffs next year, they've got a shot. i dont understand how you can be the only team with a winning record against a team that won 66 games and the championship (knicks went 3-1 against them), having won 54 games yourself and only improved with moves in the offseason, and not be called contenders.
If you can't Lance Stephenson you can't stop Lebron James. Time to get realistic.

[secund2nun]

When the best player on the team is either Chandler or Melo you are nowhere near a serious contender.

[KG215]

Yes, everybody is only going to get better. its sickening how underrated the Knicks are every year.
And they just keep proving everyone wrong year after year after year by making deep playoff runs.

People will eventually learn, though.

[imdaman99]

Even if they face Miami (which they won't win), how are they going to beat Indiana and Brooklyn ? How do they beat the Bulls who they went 0-4 against without Rose ? All those teams got better too.
The Bulls are a bad matchup for the Knicks, but believe it or not they do better against them when ROSE is in the lineup. Last year the only game they won against them was when Rose was playing. Indiana is a good team, also a tough matchup because Chandler turned into a girl against Hibbert out of nowhere. But the Knicks should have won game 6 against them if it wasn't for reffing, and then game 7 at home who knows.

So when everyone else improves it means something, but when the Knicks do it doesn't? Gotcha.


If you can't Lance Stephenson you can't stop Lebron James. Time to get realistic.
There was no scouting report on Lance. Not like Woodson is smart enough to adjust on the fly anyway. I never said the Knicks would stop Lebron. Since when does Lebron win alone? How many championships did Lebron win in Cleveland? Let's get realistic and see them match up in the playoffs. Then I will eat my words :confusedshrug:

Till than, Knicks were 3-1 against the Heat last year. Facts. One of those wins was without Melo, and another when the Heat rested Lebron and Wade. But guess what, it's not like the Heat had a bad record without Lebron and Wade. They continued to win games and beat everyone else who was on their schedule, including the Spurs in San Antonio.

[imdaman99]

And they just keep proving everyone wrong year after year after year by making deep playoff runs.

People will eventually learn, though.
Are you serious? Even OKC fans will shit on the Knicks? What exactly did the Thunder prove last year? That they are pretenders without Westbrook. Durant without Westbrook got as far as Melo did last year. Oh wait, he put up better stats. Congrats on them stats :applause: I wonder how the Knicks would do if they had Westbrook to team up with Melo. I wonder.

[Legends66NBA7]

So when everyone else improves it means something, but when the Knicks do it doesn't? Gotcha.

Yeah, because I implied it doesn't mean anything that the Knicks got better. :confusedshrug:

They DID get better. The Nets and Pacers improved more needs to their rosters than the Knicks. The Bulls retained Derrick Rose, who might return to MVP form and are already deep and young.


The Game 6 has already been covered as the Pacers continuing to have their way in the paint (biggest reason... or Chandler getting outplayed by Hibbert), Knicks played their game plan and 3's weren't falling, JR Smith's awful shooting, and the defense on the perimeter of the Knicks gambled too much.

[Legends66NBA7]

And they just keep proving everyone wrong year after year after year by making deep playoff runs.

People will eventually learn, though.

They could beat the Nets, because we don't know if age is going to catch up to them or not + Kidd's coaching inexperience. Just don't see how they beat the Bulls, Pacers, and Heat.

[KG215]

Are you serious? Even OKC fans will shit on the Knicks? What exactly did the Thunder prove last year? That they are pretenders without Westbrook. Durant without Westbrook got as far as Melo did last year. Oh wait, he put up better stats. Congrats on them stats :applause: I wonder how the Knicks would do if they had Westbrook to team up with Melo. I wonder.
What do the Thunder have to do with this? He said the Knicks get underrated every year. How, exactly, have they proven those people wrong every year?

And you're right, the Knicks don't have a second option as good as Westbrook. So what? That's what makes OKC a contender and the Knicks not a contender. Durant > Carmelo and Westbrook > J.R. Smith. And you could even make a decent argument that Westbrook > Carmelo, although I'd rank 2013 Carmelo ahead of 2013 Westbrook.

[Twiens]

Knicks need another shot blocker, that team is one Tyson Chandler injury away from the worst defensive team of all time.

[jimmy77x]

What do the Thunder have to do with this. He said the Knicks get underrated every year. How, exactly, have they proven those people wrong every year?

And you're right, the Knicks don't have a second option as good as Westbrook. So what? That's what makes OKC a contender and the Knicks not a contender. Durant > Carmelo and Westbrook > J.R. Smith. And you could even make a decent argument that Westbrook > Carmelo, although I'd rank 2013 Carmelo ahead of 2013 Westbrook.

So how do you explain the knicks almost sweeping okc last year? Almost lost to a meloless knicks first game, then Melo owns Durant's soul in head 2 heads as usual in the second game. OKC are no more contenders than the knicks are since no one can beat the heat, but ish's team of choice (Pacers) so what are they really contenders of? Pretty much contending for early playoff exit vs late exit.

[Trentknicks]

Knicks need another shot blocker, that team is one Tyson Chandler injury away from the worst defensive team of all time.
Fully agree, I mean a line up of:

Prigioni
Shumpert
MWP
Melo (who held opposing PF's to a PER of 13.9, below the League average)
Kenyon Martin

Would be dismal defensively.

[JBrizzy]

G: Raymond Felton / Pablo Prigioni / Beno Udrih
G: Iman Shumpert / JR Smith / Tim Hardaway Jr
F: Carmelo Anthony / Metta World Peace / CJ Leslie
F: Andrea Bargnani / Amar'e Stoudemire / Jeremy Tyler
C: Tyson Chandler / Kenyon Martin /

Looks pretty legit to me...you've got size, depth, outside shooting, athleticism, a proven go-to guy all on an improved roster that won 54 games last year while being riddled with injuries

Yeah, that's a good team. I guess you could class them as contenders. Out of that group of players the only player I'd really covet is Tyson Chandler and then maybe Melo. Shumpert is a pretty nice piece to have.

I see a lot of poison in there though. I wouldn't want MWP or JR Smith on my team. Sometimes they help you but sometimes they hurt you too.

[Funnyfuka]

a patchwork of inconsistant, average players who will never mesh together, no real leader/strong personality, no will to win anything...

[KG215]

So how do you explain the knicks almost sweeping okc last year? Almost lost to a meloless knicks first game, then Melo owns Durant's soul in head 2 heads as usual in the second game. OKC are no more contenders than the knicks are since no one can beat the heat, but ish's team of choice (Pacers) so what are they really contenders of? Pretty much contending for early playoff exit vs late exit.
:confusedshrug:

The Heat swept the Spurs and won one of the games without LeBron and Wade. Yet the Spurs were one rebound or one made FT away from beating them in the Finals.

And the Spurs swept OKC in the regular season in 2012, and beat them convincingly in two of those games without Manu. How'd that workout for them in the playoffs?

Referencing regular season match-ups for any kind of end-all justification for how a team is built for the playoffs or will fare in the playoffs is a fool's errand. It can help, but it doesn't always mean everything.

OKC is more of a contender than the Knicks. They're a bigger threat to get out of the West than the Knicks are to get out of the East. Star/superstar power is what wins playoff games and playoff series and, in the West, OKC would have arguably the two best players in a series, regardless of who they're playing.

[Twiens]

Fully agree, I mean a line up of:

Prigioni
Shumpert
MWP
Melo (who held opposing PF's to a PER of 13.9, below the League average)
Kenyon Martin

Would be dismal defensively.

1. That lineup is tiny

2. You have to play Bargnani and Amare sometime, they have to be beside Tyson

3. Shumpert is the only really good defender in that lineup

[Unbiased_one]

The Bulls are a bad matchup for the Knicks, but believe it or not they do better against them when ROSE is in the lineup. Last year the only game they won against them was when Rose was playing. Indiana is a good team, also a tough matchup because Chandler turned into a girl against Hibbert out of nowhere. But the Knicks should have won game 6 against them if it wasn't for reffing, and then game 7 at home who knows.

So when everyone else improves it means something, but when the Knicks do it doesn't? Gotcha.


There was no scouting report on Lance. Not like Woodson is smart enough to adjust on the fly anyway. I never said the Knicks would stop Lebron. Since when does Lebron win alone? How many championships did Lebron win in Cleveland? Let's get realistic and see them match up in the playoffs. Then I will eat my words :confusedshrug:

Till than, Knicks were 3-1 against the Heat last year. Facts. One of those wins was without Melo, and another when the Heat rested Lebron and Wade. But guess what, it's not like the Heat had a bad record without Lebron and Wade. They continued to win games and beat everyone else who was on their schedule, including the Spurs in San Antonio.

Yeah cause four game sample sizes are huge...

[bdreason]

Not even a contender on paper.

[DuMa]

I'll give you a better question. who's more crazier? Metta World Peace or JR Smith

[All Net]

Contenders in the sense of being a top 5 team in the east.

[JBrizzy]

I think they're gonna miss Novak.

[Kblaze8855]

Depends how serious a threat they have to be to be called a contender.

If everything falls the right way they could win 60 games. If that makes you a contender even if 4 teams should beat you in 6 or less if healthy....they are contenders.

Which by the way I base on an assumption that Amare will not turn back into Amare.

If he does....id say 2 teams should be able to beat them in 6 or less.

If Amare isnt good enough to start over Andrea and play 30+ minutes...hes never gonna be Amare again. Which is sad. But he is 31 and had a great run. He was a HOF level player for 7-8 years.

[FreezingTsmoove]

In all honesty Felton is a bottom tier PG, Pablo is ****ing overrated, dude can give you 2 things while out there for a quarter when any other athletic guard can give you 10, MWP sucks now cant wait for Knicks fans to want him to stop shooting, and Andrea Barg is probably one of the most overrated players I have ever seen. ***** dont even know what winning basketball is and yall are convinced he's going to be a starter to help win a championship? And lets be real here Melo aint going to pass the ball to any of them.

[DMAVS41]

Nah, two huge problems remain unless something crazy happens.

Melo isn't a championship first option

Chandler isn't half as good as people here think he is

[JtotheIzzo]

G: Raymond Felton / Pablo Prigioni / Beno Udrih
G: Iman Shumpert / JR Smith / Tim Hardaway Jr
F: Carmelo Anthony / Metta World Peace / CJ Leslie
F: Andrea Bargnani / Amar'e Stoudemire / Jeremy Tyler
C: Tyson Chandler / Kenyon Martin /

Looks pretty legit to me...you've got size, depth, outside shooting, athleticism, a proven go-to guy all on an improved roster that won 54 games last year while being riddled with injuries

If they stay healthy and if they can get stops they will be tough.

They are still slow, but in the Eastern Conference that is not as big a deal.

The small ball line up of

Felton
Smith
Shumpert
Melo
Amare/Bargnani

looks interesting as does going HUGE and playing zone with:

Chandler
Amare
Melo
World Peace/Shumpert
Felton

The key here is PLAYING ZONE because that team gets raped in man to man.

[Kblaze8855]

Nah, two huge problems remain unless something crazy happens.

Melo isn't a championship first option

Chandler isn't half as good as people here think he is


The championship first option thing just doesnt make sense to me.

Worse players than Melo have been the first options on title teams. And people with similar or worse shot selection. Selfish people. Scumbags.

You can build a title team around most any star provided the supporting cast is right.

Defense and coaching(which provides defense) could let a player like Melo lead a title team.

Shit you put Glen Rice on the 04 Pistons in place of Rip hes a champion winners first option.

People worry too much about a teams leading scorer to me. Its the other 11 guys and the people directing them that really decide what you are capable of. The top guy pushes you over the top....gets you from ok to great. Or from great to the best.

And worse #1s than Melo have done it.

[DMAVS41]

The championship first option thing just doesnt make sense to me.

Worse players than Melo have been the first options on title teams. And people with similar or worse shot selection. Selfish people. Scumbags.

You can build a title team around most any star provided the supporting cast is right.

Defense and coaching(which provides defense) could let a player like Melo lead a title team.

Shit you put Glen Rice on the 04 Pistons in place of Rip hes a champion winners first option.

People worry too much about a teams leading scorer to me. Its the other 11 guys and the people directing them that really decide what you are capable of. The top guy pushes you over the top....gets you from ok to great. Or from great to the best.

And worse #1s than Melo have done it.

Nah, I don't think you can have the clear cut best player in the NBA today on a title team average 49 or 50 percent TS and take as many shots as Melo does....and not create well for others and hijack the offense so often while also not giving the kind of effort on defense as well.

Now, if you think a guy taking roughly 25 shots a game on sub 50% TS is going to get it done in the playoffs as the clear cut number 1 guy on a playoff team...well, I think you are watching a different game.

The 04 Pistons are a bad example of this. It wasn't a team built around a star. That is what you are missing. Sure, if Melo only took 18 shots a game and played that Rip Hamilton role...it would be different, but he doesn't do that.

I'd also question if he could play without the ball in his hands enough to have a team built around him like the 04 Pistons to actually work.

I actually defend Melo here, but until he increases his efficiency or starts playing a different style...I simply don't think it's possible for a team to win with him as the clear cut best player.

[Doranku]

Nah, I don't think you can have the clear cut best player in the NBA today on a title team average 49 or 50 percent TS and take as many shots as Melo does....and not create well for others and hijack the offense so often while also not giving the kind of effort on defense as well.

Now, if you think a guy taking roughly 25 shots a game on sub 50% TS is going to get it done in the playoffs as the clear cut number 1 guy on a playoff team...well, I think you are watching a different game.

AI?

[Jailblazers7]

Only way I see the Knicks as a contender in the East is if Shump takes a dramatic step forward in his development and Amare is reasonably healthy during the year.

[DMAVS41]

AI?

I must be missing the time AI won a title.

There is a huge difference between getting to the finals and actually winning.

My argument is not saying Melo can't come close...or can't have success in the playoffs...it's that he can't win a title was the clear cut best player on a team unless he changes how he plays or his efficiency.

[Doranku]

I must be missing the time AI won a title.

There is a huge difference between getting to the finals and actually winning.

My argument is not saying Melo can't come close...or can't have success in the playoffs...it's that he can't win a title was the clear cut best player on a team unless he changes how he plays or his efficiency.

There's also a huge difference between the '01 Lakers and any team that's in the NBA currently.

With a little luck, a Melo-led Knicks team could definitely win an NBA title. Not sure why he gets so much hate on this board.

[Kblaze8855]

Saying a guy cant be a title teams first option and that he would need a different kind of team to do it are very different.

Joakim Noah cant be a title teams first option as a scorer because any team who has to rely on him as a halfcourt scorer wont have the talent to beat any decent team in the playoffs.

Melo....just needs to be in a different situation.

Elvin Hayes went from a jerk who couldnt win and told his team that all stars dont pass.....to being a jerk who made 3 finals and won one as his teams first option.

Give Melo his Wes Unseld and a couple of guards to set the temo and decide when/how to deploy him of course he could win.

A hell of a lot better players than Melo have shot well and lost anyway. Dirk could be a poorly timed sprained ankle from being a "Cant win with that style" guy who he was called before he won. Or he could just as easily have been healthy in 03 with Duncan being nicked up and have 2-3 rings by now.

Too much has to happen to get a team to win it all.

The league is a Lebron injury from it being anyones game.

Last couple years we have had Kobe, Rose, Westbrook, and Rondo gone.

A foot in the wrong spot...a bad bounce...changes all history.

The idea that Melo is so flawed that none of the absurd strokes of luck that have given players a chance to win it all is just crazy to me.

As is the idea that it makes sense to say a guy cant win as a #1....and then say he could change his style and win...as if his style is gonna be the same on every team.

If hes playing with Kevin Garnett in his prime hes gonna be the first option....but hes gonna contend for the title yearly.

If hes on the 04 Pistons...just slowing it down so much he wont be able to launch so many shots...having the ball in Billups hands with Sheed on the block or spacing the floor and Brown calling plays...hes not gonna do the same thing he does now.

Doesnt make him a different player.

It means different teams ask different things of their #1.

Melo is gonna go to the hall of fame one day. Hes one of the better scorers in the league and like most everyone you could ever say that of....

Right situation...he could win.

Taj Gibson cant win as a first option.

Melo just isnt likely to do it on a team that asks/allows him to shoot 10-32.

Meaning...he needs a good team and coach.

Which...everyone needs.

[Fresh Kid]

Knicks are seriously contenders its just that when it comes to playoffs it becomes a totally different story. As always The knicks are always unhealthy especially when April comes around, dont get me wrong I still think The refs have their part in rigging games but knicks have to try much harder and be mature. last may knicks were supposed to beat The pacers even with The refs going against them. J.r Smith and Kenyon Martin partied to much not having their head right in that pacers series. Melo is The best player and,leader on The knicks who was The main reason why The knicks were there in The first place, but he also have to be mature. Melo have to be mature especially being in The league for a decade, had several players traded for him just to be a knick , and he have to pass The ball more by getting his team involve and less isos. Knicks have a chance to win a title, and its sad because if they don't get their act together then The knicks will never get close to winning one.

[rhythmic]

Martin, Amare, World Peace, JR Smith & Udrih is a pretty solid bench.
Especially if Amare can stay healthy...

Chandler, Bargnani, Melo, Felton & Shumpert.
Shump & Chandler are two great defensive players; Felton & Melo will carry the scoring load and Bargnani can stretch the floor.

Looks like a legit contender to me.
If Barg & Amare can stay healthy (BIG IF) and contribute; this team has as good of a chance as anyone out east to dethrone Miami.

[TheGreatDeraj]

Knicks are a contender.

Sure, at this point it doesn't look like they matchup all that well with the Heat.

But, who says knicks even HAVE to beat Miami to win the title? For all we know the Pacers, Bulls, Nets could take down the Heat.

Miami is a great team. Lebron a great player. However, let's not act like they are unbeatable. They have had several series where if one or two things go differently they are not back to back champions.

Obviously, I'm not going to be placing any bets against Miami, but let's just assume someone takes the Heat down. Very few saw it coming in 2011 with the Lakers...

Let's say the Heat do lose. Do you not think the Knicks can contend with Thunder, Clippers, Spurs, Rockets, Pacers, Bulls and the Nets?

[Nastradamus]

I must be missing the time AI won a title.

There is a huge difference between getting to the finals and actually winning.

My argument is not saying Melo can't come close...or can't have success in the playoffs...it's that he can't win a title was the clear cut best player on a team unless he changes how he plays or his efficiency.

Ok, but he had a 56% TS last year, not 49-50.

[Nastradamus]

The Knicks will win games because they are deep and have a superstar, but they are just so weak at PG and PF. The depth up front is suspect too. A lot revolves around Amare I guess. If he makes it through the year and produces at a decent level, everything changes.

Bargnani is just terrible. Terrible trade all around there. Bargs is a poor man's Charlie Villanueva and Detroit probably would have given you him for free, without giving up draft picks.

Also Melo played more minutes at the 4 than the 3 last year and was highly effective. He won't be able to play there much next year most likely.

[Kblaze8855]

The refs have their part in rigging games but knicks have to try much harder and be mature. last may knicks were supposed to beat The pacers even with The refs going against them.


If you think the NBA had any desire to see a Pacers/Heat series over Heat/Knicks when they had to start negotiating for a new TV deal based on ratings right after the playoffs you are ****ing insane. They have an 8 year deal they need to extend and they are required to give Disney/ABC/ESPN one full year to get a new deal in place before they can talk to CBS/NBC/Fox who all want in. Think they dont want the New York/Heat series ratings to flaunt as they discuss the price and tell Disney "We just had the highest rated ECF in 10 years....tell your boss to bring us a real offer" as they threaten them with jumping ship back to NBC?

The Knicks just got worked. Nobody wanted them to win more than the people in power in the NBA.

Silver would have run straight to Mickey Mouses office with those ECF ratings and demanded an extra 100 million or hes taking his talents to CBS.

[jimmy77x]

If you think the NBA had any desire to see a Pacers/Heat series over Heat/Knicks when they had to start negotiating for a new TV deal based on ratings right after the playoffs you are ****ing insane. They have an 8 year deal they need to extend and they are required to give Disney/ABC/ESPN one full year to get a new deal in place before they can talk to CBS/NBC/Fox who all want in. Think they dont want the New York/Heat series ratings to flaunt as they discuss the price and tell Disney "We just had the highest rated ECF in 10 years....tell your boss to bring us a real offer" as they threaten them with jumping ship back to NBC?

The Knicks just got worked. Nobody wanted them to win more than the people in power in the NBA.

Silver would have run straight to Mickey Mouses office with those ECF ratings and demanded an extra 100 million or hes taking his talents to CBS.

Come on dude i know NY is the biggest market and it wouldn't make sense for the league to favor Indiana over the knicks but that game 6 was rigged no questions asked. I Mean seriously who shoots 30 more free throws than their opponent? I repeat 30. No one on the knicks could buy a call but yet if you looked at a pacer the wrong way it was a foul. This may sound silly but the league sacrificed a higher rating ecf so their poster boy ( lebron) would have an easier chance getting to the finals. Knicks haters will all say it wasn't rigged because they enjoy seeing the knicks lose but there was seriously something suspicious going on. Pacers have become overrated, team full of second rates and everyone is on their jock.

[boozehound]

not a contender. Probably the 4th or 5th best team in the east though. PG is alight but not incredible. SG is an interesting mix of fairly one-dimensional players (we will see how schumpy develops). The frontcourt is full of terrible to lackluster defensers except for chandler. Lots of decent players, but most are not complete players (even their star). They will be good, but they wont make the conference finals.

[Kblaze8855]

Ok so...you know it doesnt make sense youre just saying they did it anyway.

The NBA would rather have Lebron in the finals(which it had 3 times already by the way) than get a Miami/New York ECF with tv contracts(the very thing driving a league where most teams barely profit) up for discussion.

And to do this...they tell their refs to favor a team full of guys nobody knows on a team nobody cares about from...Indiana.

And I suppose they also told the Knicks to have 36% of their shots be 3s in game 6?

And this Lebron lust the NBA has....did they cancel it when he actually got to the finals where his team shot the least FTs in a seven game series EVER? Not finals. Series.

Ever.

The NBA cheats against its biggest market with literally billions of dollars at stake in its TV deal to favor a team who they then allow to take the least FTs ever....

But people who find that unlikely just...hate the Knicks? Because the Knicks have done so much to create scorn across the league right? With all those teams they beat in series that mattered...in the 70s.

The Knicks have not been a team to take serious since most of todays fans were kids. Nobody is afraid of or concerned about the Knicks. With the obvious exception of the NBA....who would probably have cried tears of joy at the sight of them in the finals doing record numbers while Disney watches.

The Knicks lost. They just have fans who act like children just like they did screaming rig 20 years ago with Jordan.

Bunch of bitches who cant handle a team that isnt that good...performing like it isnt that good.

The NBA is about money. Period. Lebron generates money and interest win or lose. And he would generate even more money going down to the Knicks in a dramatic game 7 than he would by beating the Pacers then the Spurs.

A classic long series vs the Heat to make the finals would bring basketball back in NY in a way its been gone since Patrick Ewing was in his prime.

Spike Lee would be producing videos for ESPN. Ewing, King, Reed, Frazier, and Earl Monroe would be trotted out to talk about the glory days.

The Knicks in the finals would be on every sports fan tongue in the country and the NBA would spoon it up and pour it all over the desk of the CEO of every cable network in America.

Adam Silver is personally handling the new contract. Its gonna be his first major move with his stamp on it. Hes not trying to hurt his position letting the gotdamn Pacers beat the Knicks with the most hyped series in years waiting in the wings.

I bet ESPN already had the Knicks/Heat brawl footage loaded up. Alan Houston game winner. Hardaway crossovers. The greatest rivalry in the east brought back to life in the damn conference finals with the TV deal waiting in the wings? And they throw it away to get Lebron into the finals....where he had already been 3 times?

The NBA is not that stupid.

[jimmy77x]

Ok so...you know it doesnt make sense youre just saying they did it anyway.

The NBA would rather have Lebron in the finals(which it had 3 times already by the way) than get a Miami/New York ECF with tv contracts(the very thing driving a league where most teams barely profit) up for discussion.

And to do this...they tell their refs to favor a team full of guys nobody knows on a team nobody cares about from...Indiana.

And I suppose they also told the Knicks to have 36% of their shots be 3s in game 6?

And this Lebron lust the NBA has....did they cancel it when he actually got to the finals where his team shot the least FTs in a seven game series EVER? Not finals. Series.

Ever.

The NBA cheats against its biggest market with literally billions of dollars at stake in its TV deal to favor a team who they then allow to take the least FTs ever....

But people who find that unlikely just...hate the Knicks? Because the Knicks have done so much to create scorn across the league right? With all those teams they beat in series that mattered...in the 70s.

The Knicks have not been a team to take serious since most of todays fans were kids. Nobody is afraid of or concerned about the Knicks. With the obvious exception of the NBA....who would probably have cried tears of joy at the sight of them in the finals doing record numbers while Disney watches.

The Knicks lost. They just have fans who act like children just like they did screaming rig 20 years ago with Jordan.

Bunch of bitches who cant handle a team that isnt that good...performing like it isnt that good.

The NBA is about money. Period. Lebron generates money and interest win or lose. And he would generate even more money going down to the Knicks in a dramatic game 7 than he would by beating the Pacers then the Spurs.

A classic long series vs the Heat to make the finals would bring basketball back in NY in a way its been gone since Patrick Ewing was in his prime.

Spike Lee would be producing videos for ESPN. Ewing, King, Reed, Frazier, and Earl Monroe would be trotted out to talk about the glory days.

The Knicks in the finals would be on every sports fan tongue in the country and the NBA would spoon it up and pour it all over the desk of the CEO of every cable network in America.

Adam Silver is personally handling the new contract. Its gonna be his first major move with his stamp on it. Hes not trying to hurt his position letting the gotdamn Pacers beat the Knicks with the most hyped series in years waiting in the wings.

I bet ESPN already had the Knicks/Heat brawl footage loaded up. Alan Houston game winner. Hardaway crossovers. The greatest rivalry in the east brought back to life in the damn conference finals with the TV deal waiting in the wings? And they throw it away to get Lebron into the finals....where he had already been 3 times?

The NBA is not that stupid.

All im trying to say is how many times has a team shot over 30 more free throws than their opponent. You say they are a team of nobodys which i agree with but what makes them so talented enough to draw over three times more free throws than who their playing against, especially them being a foul prone team. Pacers won the series its all water under the bridge now but game 6 was DEFINITELY a suspiciously called game.

[Heavincent]

Pacers are better than the Knicks. Deal with it.

[jimmy77x]

Pacers are better than the Knicks. Deal with it.

Well since you said it, it must be true. I must have forgot you have the end all decision on who's better than who. Congratulations you must feel special.

[CanYouDigIt]

Knicks look good on paper: CHECK

Doesn't make conference finals: CHECK

[Heavincent]

Well since you said it, it must be true. I must have forgot you have the end all decision on who's better than who. Congratulations you must feel special.

I'd say the Pacers beating the Knicks in the playoffs, and then improving their team in the offseason is proof enough.

[Legends66NBA7]

AI?

Nah, guys like , Elvin Hayes, Rick Barry... came to mind. Although, they could do other things more than Melo.

[jimmy77x]

I'd say the Pacers beating the Knicks in the playoffs, and then improving their team in the offseason is proof enough.

Yes because we all know beating a team one time in the playoffs means you will forever be better than the other team, must have forgot that. And of corse they improved more than the knicks though huh. Not surprising coming from a knick hater.:sleeping

[Kblaze8855]

All im trying to say is how many times has a team shot over 30 more free throws than their opponent. You say they are a team of nobodys which i agree with but what makes them so talented enough to draw over three times more free throws than who their playing against, especially them being a foul prone team. Pacers won the series its all water under the bridge now but game 6 was DEFINITELY a suspiciously called game.

You think the more talented team draws more FTs off that magical talent? Playing near the rim draws FTs. The Knicks shot 30 threes and shot 28 less free throws. The Pacers went inside virtually every game I saw them play. And they have guards who attack in transition.

Have you seen Lance Stephenson play?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orc1nY4z8_I

All he did was get into the paint. He had more blue under his feet than Jesus walking on water. He could have taken more FTs than he did. It doesnt matter what his name is or if hes more talented than JR Smith. One goes to the basket and one takes contested threes the guy at the rim likely gets bumped more often.

Hibbert locked down the paint and learned to do it standing flat footed hands in the air to avoid fouls going against him. When he goes up and:

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/hibbert-hangs-posters-carmelo-block-man-cave.jpg



It doesnt matter who knows his name.


If you are gonna look at the numbers and throw out basketball its not worth talking about.

[boozehound]

Yes because we all know beating a team one time in the playoffs means you will forever be better than the other team, must have forgot that. And of corse they improved more than the knicks though huh. Not surprising coming from a knick hater.:sleeping
How did the knicks markedly improve? They brought in ron artest in the twillight of his career and a terrible player in bargs. The rest of their rotation is the same as last year (+washedupamar'e).

The pacers basically beat the heat (one dumb coaching move in game 1 away from winning 4 of the 7) with not a single bench player they can trust. They addressed their lack of bench ball handling, upgraded at the wing, stole one of the knicks best bench players from last year and massively upgraded their backup for david west.

Face it, the pacers are a better team.

[jimmy77x]

You think the more talented team draws more FTs off that magical talent? Playing near the rim draws FTs. The Knicks shot 30 threes and shot 28 less free throws. The Pacers went inside virtually every game I saw them play. And they have guards who attack in transition.

Have you seen Lance Stephenson play?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orc1nY4z8_I

All he did was get into the paint. He had more blue under his feet than Jesus walking on water. He could have taken more FTs than he did.

If you are gonna look at the numbers and throw out basketball its not worth talking about.

I dont have the statistical information nor do i have time to look it up, but the knicks had the same amount of shots in the paint as the pacers that game.

[jimmy77x]

How did the knicks markedly improve? They brought in ron artest in the twillight of his career and a terrible player in bargs. The rest of their rotation is the same as last year (+washedupamar'e).

The pacers basically beat the heat (one dumb coaching move in game 1 away from winning 4 of the 7) with not a single bench player they can trust. They addressed their lack of bench ball handling, upgraded at the wing, stole one of the knicks best bench players from last year and massively upgraded their backup for david west.

Face it, the pacers are a better team.

Downplaying every knick acquisition and overrating all the pacers. Nothing new on ish :sleeping If they meet in the playoffs again and the pacers beat them then i will believe it.

[Heavincent]

Yes because we all know beating a team one time in the playoffs means you will forever be better than the other team, must have forgot that. And of corse they improved more than the knicks though huh. Not surprising coming from a knick hater.:sleeping

I'm a Knicks hater because I don't think they're a championship contender? Because I think Indiana is a better team? :confusedshrug:

They did improve more than Knicks. They have a few young guys who will only improve (George and Stevenson), and they get back Granger and they acquired Scola. The Knicks got Bargs (garbage), MWP (okay player but washed up at this point), and Udrih (decent backup PG).

[Kblaze8855]

I dont have the statistical information nor do i have time to look it up, but the knicks had the same amount of shots in the paint as the pacers that game.

Even if they did(which I dont much care about as id need to see each shot to judge it...an uncontested fastbreak dunk is a point in the paint)....

They also shot twice the threes which are plays almost never resulting in a foul.

The Knicks are a team of guys who take bad shots, get lazy on offense, and dont play the smartest defense around the basket. The Pacers are hungry and well taught to avoid fouls.

I saw it watching the games and not one person I watched them with had a word to say about refs.

[Kblaze8855]

They did improve more than Knicks. They have a few young guys who will only improve (George and Stevenson), and they get back Granger and they acquired Scola. The Knicks got Bargs (garbage), MWP (okay player but washed up at this point), and Udrih (decent backup PG).

George and Lance getting better, their(coming into last season) best player returns, and they added Scola....that is pretty easily a better set of reasons to assume they get better than adding Bargs and Ron Artest 10 years past his best.


If Amare is back to himself the Knicks added as much. But hes never gonna be what he was. If hes just like...18/8...its as much.

But who expects that?

[Legends66NBA7]

I saw it watching the games and not one person I watched them with had a word to say about refs.

Same here.

Only Knick fans have talked about the refs for that game.

[Kblaze8855]

Same here.

Only Knick fans have talked about the refs for that game.

And I watched it with a Knicks fans! Well hes more a Carmelo Anthony fan but he loves Melo and the Knicks as a result. I watched the playoffs with 2 Laker fans, a Knicks fan, and now and then a Celtics fan.

Knicks fan He was just mad they didnt get to play the Heat(the other team hes a bandwaggon fan of). Never said shit about the refs.

[DMAVS41]

Ok, but he had a 56% TS last year, not 49-50.

Playoffs. He had a .497 TS percentage last year in the playoffs. He's a career .513 TS percentage player in the playoffs.

My point is that he's not going to win a title unless that dramatically increases. And even then, I'm unsure as he's a huge ball stopper/ball dominant player that doesn't create well, does not give effort on defense...and quite frankly doesn't do anything else well.

Melo's huge plus that he has is that he's great in game winning situations...although that hasn't translated to the playoffs yet.

[Nastradamus]

Playoffs. He had a .497 TS percentage last year in the playoffs. He's a career .513 TS percentage player in the playoffs.

My point is that he's not going to win a title unless that dramatically increases. And even then, I'm unsure as he's a huge ball stopper/ball dominant player that doesn't create well, does not give effort on defense...and quite frankly doesn't do anything else well.

Melo's huge plus that he has is that he's great in game winning situations...although that hasn't translated to the playoffs yet.

THe problem IMO is, he has never played on a team where the defense had to really fear anyone on Melo's team besides Melo. He has never played with another star(who was playing like a star at the time he played with Melo) and he has never played on a team that realistically should have gone farther than they actually did.

[jzek]

I don't see that lineup getting past Chicago, Indiana, Miami and even Brooklyn!

[DMAVS41]

Saying a guy cant be a title teams first option and that he would need a different kind of team to do it are very different.

Joakim Noah cant be a title teams first option as a scorer because any team who has to rely on him as a halfcourt scorer wont have the talent to beat any decent team in the playoffs.

Melo....just needs to be in a different situation.

Elvin Hayes went from a jerk who couldnt win and told his team that all stars dont pass.....to being a jerk who made 3 finals and won one as his teams first option.

Give Melo his Wes Unseld and a couple of guards to set the temo and decide when/how to deploy him of course he could win.

A hell of a lot better players than Melo have shot well and lost anyway. Dirk could be a poorly timed sprained ankle from being a "Cant win with that style" guy who he was called before he won. Or he could just as easily have been healthy in 03 with Duncan being nicked up and have 2-3 rings by now.

Too much has to happen to get a team to win it all.

The league is a Lebron injury from it being anyones game.

Last couple years we have had Kobe, Rose, Westbrook, and Rondo gone.

A foot in the wrong spot...a bad bounce...changes all history.

The idea that Melo is so flawed that none of the absurd strokes of luck that have given players a chance to win it all is just crazy to me.

As is the idea that it makes sense to say a guy cant win as a #1....and then say he could change his style and win...as if his style is gonna be the same on every team.

If hes playing with Kevin Garnett in his prime hes gonna be the first option....but hes gonna contend for the title yearly.

If hes on the 04 Pistons...just slowing it down so much he wont be able to launch so many shots...having the ball in Billups hands with Sheed on the block or spacing the floor and Brown calling plays...hes not gonna do the same thing he does now.

Doesnt make him a different player.

It means different teams ask different things of their #1.

Melo is gonna go to the hall of fame one day. Hes one of the better scorers in the league and like most everyone you could ever say that of....

Right situation...he could win.

Taj Gibson cant win as a first option.

Melo just isnt likely to do it on a team that asks/allows him to shoot 10-32.

Meaning...he needs a good team and coach.

Which...everyone needs.

Here's the thing. I don't think Melo wins on the 04 Pistons in place of Hamilton. I think it messes with their chemistry and Melo struggles to play a more limited role.

You are confusing what I'm saying. I'm not saying Melo can't be on a championship winning team. I'm saying I find it unlikely that he can be the main guy on a championship winning team. A championship first option type player along the lines of Kobe or Dirk or Wade or Lebron or Duncan or Shaq...just to name a few over the past decade plus. I'm talking about being the clear cut best player on the team. I'm not sure Melo can be that guy given how inefficient he is in the playoffs over his career and how little else he brings to the table.

You have a high volume low efficiency scorer who dominates the ball and is a ball stopper...who doesn't pass or create well...doesn't defend well...and from all evidence...isn't a good leader.

And I'm not saying he's far off from it either. He played really well in 09...but even if they beat the Lakers, I bet they lose to the Magic in the finals. I just think there will always be 1 other team out there or more that will be able to beat a Melo led team.

Sure, give Melo a prime Wade with a healthy Chandler at center and some good shooters/defenders and I'd pick them to win. But he wouldn't be playing the clear cut best player role. That is what I'm talking about.

One of two things need to happen. He either needs to start playing more efficient basketball in the playoffs and creating for his teammates better. Or he needs to adopt a different style of play.

Until I see evidence for either. I don't think how he plays is good enough to be the main guy.

[DMAVS41]

THe problem IMO is, he has never played on a team where the defense had to really fear anyone on Melo's team besides Melo. He has never played with another star(who was playing like a star at the time he played with Melo) and he has never played on a team that realistically should have gone farther than they actually did.

I agree with some of this...which is why I actually defend Melo often on here. But at the same time, playing without another star didn't stop other true championship first options from putting up better numbers. If Melo was at 58% TS and actually tried on defense and was a leader...and was still losing...I'd have a different take.

Not sure your definition of star, but Billups in 09 was pretty damn good...and certainly better than anyone on the Heat last year or the 11 Mavs for example.

Billups put up 21/7/4 on 66.4% TS in the 09 playoffs...that is absurd.

And it's not like Melo went off against the Lakers. He had a couple nice games, but overall was average.

[ballup]

With what the Knicks have done so far in the playoffs, how can someone believe they are contenders?

[Kblaze8855]

Here's the thing. I don't think Melo wins on the 04 Pistons in place of Hamilton. I think it messes with their chemistry and Melo struggles to play a more limited role.

You are confusing what I'm saying. I'm not saying Melo can't be on a championship winning team. I'm saying I find it unlikely that he can be the main guy on a championship winning team. A championship first option type player along the lines of Kobe or Dirk or Wade or Lebron or Duncan or Shaq...just to name a few over the past decade plus. I'm talking about being the clear cut best player on the team. I'm not sure Melo can be that guy given how inefficient he is in the playoffs over his career and how little else he brings to the table.

You have a high volume low efficiency scorer who dominates the ball and is a ball stopper...who doesn't pass or create well...doesn't defend well...and from all evidence...isn't a good leader.

And I'm not saying he's far off from it either. He played really well in 09...but even if they beat the Lakers, I bet they lose to the Magic in the finals. I just think there will always be 1 other team out there or more that will be able to beat a Melo led team.

Sure, give Melo a prime Wade with a healthy Chandler at center and some good shooters/defenders and I'd pick them to win. But he wouldn't be playing the clear cut best player role. That is what I'm talking about.

One of two things need to happen. He either needs to start playing more efficient basketball in the playoffs and creating for his teammates better. Or he needs to adopt a different style of play.

Until I see evidence for either. I don't think how he plays is good enough to be the main guy.


There is entirely too much made of guys who win a ring. Just because only 30 or so people led teams to titles doesnt mean there arent 100 who could have. 90% of it is Gm decisions, coaching, health, and things falling just right. We have guys winning with 3 star points and the best 2 in the league out and an additional star point getting banged up in the finals.

But nothing could happen to make a Melo led team win?

You make the WCF you are 2 sprained ankles from being the champion. Doesnt even have to be the best players. Kobe goes down in 09 instead of 13 and Hedo or Rashard in game 1 of the finals Melo is probably a champion right now.

Lets not act like heaven and earth would have to move.

Champions arent inherently more special individuals. They are usually in special organizations from the top down and most of them win one or two times in 15 years when it all falls into place, people are healthy, opponents somehow fall short, coaching is right, teammates step up and all.

It isnt all luck...but its a ****load of luck.

[DMAVS41]

There is entirely too much made of guys who win a ring. Just because only 30 or so people led teams to titles doesnt mean there arent 100 who could have. 90% of it is Gm decisions, coaching, health, and things falling just right. We have guys winning with 3 star points and the best 2 in the league out and an additional star point getting banged up in the finals.

But nothing could happen to make a Melo led team win?

You make the WCF you are 2 sprained ankles from being the champion. Doesnt even have to be the best players. Kobe goes down in 09 instead of 13 and Hedo or Rashard in game 1 of the finals Melo is probably a champion right now.

Lets not act like heaven and earth would have to move.

Champions arent inherently more special individuals. They are usually in special organizations from the top down and most of them win one or two times in 15 years when it all falls into place, people are healthy, opponents somehow fall short, coaching is right, teammates step up and all.

It isnt all luck...but its a ****load of luck.

Who is saying..."nothing can happen"??

I even laid out a scenario in which I'd call a team with Melo on it the favorites. But you kind of answer the question...it's ****ing hard and it takes a boat load of luck to win as the clear cut main guy on a team. That is why I don't think Melo can do it. Of course there are no absolutes, I would never proclaim to say that Melo will never or could never do something.

What I do say...is that based on what I've seen...Melo hasn't played well enough to be the clear cut main guy on a title winning team and I don't see that changing in the future.

And that is before I even talk about other issues inherent in his game that I think would prevent him from doing a lot of the things you say he could do.

There is always going to be at least 1 other very good team out there in the NBA even in down years with other very good to great players. If one team is built around a high volume / low efficiency star player...I will almost always take the other team. And again, it's not like Melo does much else. It's not just one thing.

But those are just my thoughts. Put it this way. I'd bet my life that if Melo ever wins a title, he won't be taking 25 shots to score 28 or 29 points.

[Kblaze8855]

Really....if you predict every star swingman cant lead a title team wouldnt you be like 150 and 5 record wise? It just feels cheap to me. Like predicting a guy playing the lottery wont win. Well no shit....

Hes 28 or 29 not on a team that should win and we have no idea what could happen to change that. Guys who win tend to be dropped into winning situations right off the bat because its hard to build a winning team on that level.

But Melo like 50 others could have been placed in spots to prosper off nothing but the misfortune of others. But hes not likely to win. And will join the list of dozens like that who just didnt end up on a stable franchise with stars and good coaching. Or in the right place when everyones knee blows out.

There are plenty of pweople I dont care for and assume wont win.

But most of the people I think can win wont win either.......

I feel childish being on some "___ will never win" shit after all ive seen.

Ive seen too many greats not get the break and too many not that good fall into the perfect situation and get to contend for 10 years.


Kinda bugs me the way all time greats gets hated on at time.

Even Karl Malone now and then.

[SilkkTheShocker]

first round exit

[DMAVS41]

Really....if you predict every star swingman cant lead a title team wouldnt you be like 150 and 5 record wise? It just feels cheap to me. Like predicting a guy playing the lottery wont win. Well no shit....

Hes 28 or 29 not on a team that should win and we have no idea what could happen to change that. Guys who win tend to be dropped into winning situations right off the bat because its hard to build a winning team on that level.

But Melo like 50 others could have been placed in spots to prosper off nothing but the misfortune of others. But hes not likely to win. And will join the list of dozens like that who just didnt end up on a stable franchise with stars and good coaching. Or in the right place when everyones knee blows out.

There are plenty of pweople I dont care for and assume wont win.

But most of the people I think can win wont win either.......

I feel childish being on some "___ will never win" shit after all ive seen.

Ive seen too many greats not get the break and too many not that good fall into the perfect situation and get to contend for 10 years.


Kinda bugs me the way all time greats gets hated on at time.

Even Karl Malone now and then.

The difference is that I see Melo's play as the reason his teams have not done well or won. Not the main factor, but he simply hasn't played at a high enough level to warrant this kind of talk. In 09 and 10 you could at least talk about it and it would make sense because of how Melo played...maybe 07 as well, but even then...I just think he has some deficiencies in his game outside of his poor efficiency that would hold him and his team back even when he's scoring efficiently.

But those times of efficient basketball are not the norm...quite the opposite actually.

I don't know why this is so difficult. When I say Melo isn't a true championship first option...you know exactly what I mean. And, quite frankly, it sounds like you agree. That does not mean I am saying that Melo can never win...ever.

I just find his play in the playoffs to not be on the level or reliability that NBA history has proven you need out of a clear cut main guy on a title team. Which is what the Knicks will need if they want to win...which is what this thread is about.

I'm not talking about Melo playing on a loaded olympic roster. I'm talking about Melo being the clear cut best player on a team that wins the title. And I don't think he's capable of that given the evidence. Now, that isn't me saying it's impossible. Just highly unlikely.

[ralph_i_el]

all depends on how many of those guys actually make it through the season

[Fresh Kid]

first round exit
Its possible, but its not definite, depends on health and matchups.

[boozehound]

Its possible, but its not definite, depends on health and matchups.
I agree. Its possible they make the playoffs if they stay healthy, but not definite.

[Fresh Kid]

I agree. Its possible they make the playoffs if they stay healthy, but not definite.
I dont know if I would go that far boozehound, they will be in the top 8 most definitely.

[Trentknicks]

The Knicks will win games because they are deep and have a superstar, but they are just so weak at PG and PF. The depth up front is suspect too. A lot revolves around Amare I guess. If he makes it through the year and produces at a decent level, everything changes.

Bargnani is just terrible. Terrible trade all around there. Bargs is a poor man's Charlie Villanueva and Detroit probably would have given you him for free, without giving up draft picks.

Also Melo played more minutes at the 4 than the 3 last year and was highly effective. He won't be able to play there much next year most likely.
I absolutely love posts like this, because you can really tell who regurgitates shit out of their ass.

Knicks have Felton/Udrih/Prigioni at PG, all capable of filling in for starter minutes and both Felton and Priggie infact did last year when the Knicks finished the season 11-2 and Udrih will be a pretty solid upgrade from Kidd.

As for PF, I think the Knicks are sweet. Between Bargs (who is 100%) healthy now and Amare, I'm pretty sure they will get enough games out of the two. If not, Melo slots into the 4 and MWP plays the 3, problem solved. Knicks have arguably the most versatile depth at the 4. And the Knicks do not rely on Amare at all, that's what the Bargs trade was all about. They no longer rely on him at all, he's just a luxury or bonus to have.

This is the part where you can really tell you know so little. The Bargs trade was great for the Knicks, and he can play the 4 and Melo the 3 to great success. Melo gets his best spots when he plays in the post, it just so happens that this is generally when he plays the 4, because the Knicks didn't have a stretch 4. With Bargs, Melo can play the 3 and still get his spots.

Game, set, match. You as a poster :facepalm

[knickswin]

I'm not usually a homer, but I think they're getting pretty badly underrated this off season. I think Bargnani and Udrih were good additions, and there's a good chance they'll be better next season than they were this season.

Like the rest of the league, they probably don't stand more than a puncher's chance against the Heat, but I think they should be in the mix with the Heat, Bulls, Pacers, and Nets fighting for seeds 2-5.

As far as Carmelo Anthony goes, he's been a playoff disappointment most of his career. Some of the things he does frustrate me because they're not effective yet he does them over and over. He should not be running pick and rolls starting from the three point line; he should not isolate starting in the deep mid range. On the other hand, he's quite good if he plays more inside and spots up shoots more.

[Nastradamus]

I absolutely love posts like this, because you can really tell who regurgitates shit out of their ass.

Knicks have Felton/Udrih/Prigioni at PG, all capable of filling in for starter minutes and both Felton and Priggie infact did last year when the Knicks finished the season 11-2 and Udrih will be a pretty solid upgrade from Kidd.

As for PF, I think the Knicks are sweet. Between Bargs (who is 100%) healthy now and Amare, I'm pretty sure they will get enough games out of the two. If not, Melo slots into the 4 and MWP plays the 3, problem solved. Knicks have arguably the most versatile depth at the 4. And the Knicks do not rely on Amare at all, that's what the Bargs trade was all about. They no longer rely on him at all, he's just a luxury or bonus to have.

This is the part where you can really tell you know so little. The Bargs trade was great for the Knicks, and he can play the 4 and Melo the 3 to great success. Melo gets his best spots when he plays in the post, it just so happens that this is generally when he plays the 4, because the Knicks didn't have a stretch 4. With Bargs, Melo can play the 3 and still get his spots.

Game, set, match. You as a poster :facepalm

Wow, the funny thing is, I think you actually believe what you just typed.

First and foremost, Bargnani is terrible. Health is NOT his problem. He's a 4/5 who can't rebound or defend and doesn't even shoot 3s very well, which is his freakin' calling card.

Second, Felton is not a good player. Did you watch him last year? J-Kidd, who didn't score for like his last 5 games as a pro, looked better than him out there, at age 39. You can't name a worse starting PG in the NBA right now other than maybe a rookie. PP is ok as a backup, but he can't score or defend. He's a niche role player who you don't want to end up starting. I gave Udrih his due. He's a solid backup option and a good fit on this roster

3, not relying on Amare is not something you should be happy or proud about. A healthy Stoudemire is about your only chance of having a decent frontcourt. Beyond him, you have zero depth. Martin is old and got obliterated in the playoffs, Tyler is unproven and um, that's all you have. TERRIBLE!

4, Novak was an incredibly underrated and valuable player. His floor spacing ability will be greatly missed. Depending on how fast Smith heals(not just gets on the court, but gets back to normal), 3 point shooting could be a very big issue for this team, especially as far as giving Melo room to work with. Shump and MPW can hit the, but they don't force the D to fear them. There's a difference. Both NOvak and Copeland are better players than Bargs, nobody wants to acknowledge that though.

The Knicks are a solid team and I'm actually a pretty big Melo backer, but overrating guys like Bargs/Felton and ignoring your glaring weaknesses in terms of defense and rebounding(did we forget the Pacers series already, Jesus) down low is just stupid.

I'll take my apology at any time. You sir, have been owned.