NBA myths: Hakeem "owned" Shaq in the 1995 Finals.

[TonyMontana]

http://www.warriorsworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Hakeem-Olajuwon.jpg

Hakeem:
32.8 PPG
11.5 RPG
6.5 APG
48.3 FG%
2.0 BPG

Shaq
28.0 PPG
12.5 RPG
6.3 APG
59.5 FG%
2.5 BPG

How is this owned? Hakeem put up some great numbers, but so did Shaq. Neither could stop the other. Hakeem put up more points, but he took 116 shots compared to Shaqs 74 in the series. 48% for a center, let alone the guy with the "best low post moves in NBA History" reputation is not very ****ing good.

While Shaq nearly shot 60% from the field almost equaling his scoring. I'd take Shaqs numbers over Olajuwon any day.

Cool note: Very high assist numbers for centers. I'm going to have to try and look these games up on youtube sometime this week.

[MisterAmazing]

http://www.warriorsworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Hakeem-Olajuwon.jpg

Hakeem:
32.8 PPG
11.5 RPG
6.5 APG
48.3 FG%
2.0 BPG

Shaq
28.0 PPG
12.5 RPG
6.3 APG
59.5 FG%
2.5 BPG

How is this owned? Hakeem put up some great numbers, but so did Shaq. Neither could stop the other. Hakeem put up more points, but he took 116 shots compared to Shaqs 74 in the series. 48% for a center, let alone the guy with the "best low post moves in NBA History" reputation is not very ****ing good.

While Shaq nearly shot 60% from the field almost equaling his scoring. I'd take Shaqs numbers over Olajuwon any day.

Cool note: Very high assist numbers for centers. I'm going to have to try and look these games up on youtube sometime this week.

I think most more-than-casual fans realize that Shaq wasn't dominated. It's all relative really - Hakeem was really the first guy and one of the few who could hold Shaq back just enough to beat him. Shaq himself has recognized this and shown Hakeem respect for it.

[SuperPippen]

So, you haven't actually watched the games, and yet you are still attempting to make a definitive statement on how one player fared against another based solely on statistics...... :facepalm

[TonyMontana]

So, you haven't actually watched the games, and yet you are still attempting to make a definitive statement on how one player fared against another based solely on statistics...... :facepalm

You watch the games live?


I think most more-than-casual fans realize that Shaq wasn't dominated. It's all relative really - Hakeem was really the first guy and one of the few who could hold Shaq back just enough to beat him. Shaq himself has recognized this and shown Hakeem respect for it.

Sounds like bullshit.

Just like that shit about "oh Russell let Wilt score in the beginning of games just to block him at the end!".

Shaq wasn't "held back". He averaged less than a point difference from his regular season average, he was more efficient, assits nearly tripled, and his rebounding went up.

[K Xerxes]

Yes, it would be inaccurate to say that he 'owned' Shaq, but he did outplay and outperform Shaq. This is something that can only be seen by actually watching the games instead of analysing stats with no context, which is what you are shamelessly doing.

From another post I made before...

"It was a sweep and Shaq himself will tell you that Hakeem whooped his ass. And you're going to let blind stats dictate your opinion of it?

I'll give you Shaq outplaying Hakeem in game 1, he was incredible in this game. Orlando really should have won that game, and it was very unfortunate that Anderson choked that game away. But Hakeem did have the game winning tip.

The flaw in your stats based argument comes to light in game 2: Shaq had better all round stats than Hakeem (33-12-7 vs 34-11-2), but it doesn't say anything about CONTEXT. The Rockets slaughtered Orlando in the first half where Hakeem did most of his damage, and while I hate to throw the term 'stat padding' around, Shaq did his in the second half when Orlando never came all that close to Houston. Hakeem dominated Shaq in this one, and Shaq couldn't live with Hakeem one on one (watch the game).

In game 3... pretty similar performances. Horry really made the difference in this game and Hakeem & Shaq both played well.

Hakeem completely dominated Shaq in game 4 to seal the victory. Even your stats will point to this.

Don't get me wrong, by that stage, Shaq was already 'unguardable' and he was already amazing. But Hakeem outplayed him in that series. This is what watching games tells you. I agree that Hakeem's team mates outplayed Shaq's, but it's ironic because Orlando actually went into that game seen as the team with a better supporting cast.

The reason they won was that Hakeem's team mates stepped up, but to suggest that Hakeem didn't have a say in that or that Hakeem didn't orchestrate the offense (he did) to a ridiculous level is ludicrous.

Please go watch the actual games."

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

those APG stats...

[MisterAmazing]

Yes, it would be inaccurate to say that he 'owned' Shaq, but he did outplay and outperform Shaq. This is something that can only be seen by actually watching the games instead of analysing stats with no context, which is what you are shamelessly doing.

From another post I made before...

"It was a sweep and Shaq himself will tell you that Hakeem whooped his ass. And you're going to let blind stats dictate your opinion of it?

I'll give you Shaq outplaying Hakeem in game 1, he was incredible in this game. Orlando really should have won that game, and it was very unfortunate that Anderson choked that game away. But Hakeem did have the game winning tip.

The flaw in your stats based argument comes to light in game 2: Shaq had better all round stats than Hakeem (33-12-7 vs 34-11-2), but it doesn't say anything about CONTEXT. The Rockets slaughtered Orlando in the first half where Hakeem did most of his damage, and while I hate to throw the term 'stat padding' around, Shaq did his in the second half when Orlando never came all that close to Houston. Hakeem dominated Shaq in this one, and Shaq couldn't live with Hakeem one on one (watch the game).

In game 3... pretty similar performances. Horry really made the difference in this game and Hakeem & Shaq both played well.

Hakeem completely dominated Shaq in game 4 to seal the victory. Even your stats will point to this.

Don't get me wrong, by that stage, Shaq was already 'unguardable' and he was already amazing. But Hakeem outplayed him in that series. This is what watching games tells you. I agree that Hakeem's team mates outplayed Shaq's, but it's ironic because Orlando actually went into that game seen as the team with a better supporting cast.

The reason they won was that Hakeem's team mates stepped up, but to suggest that Hakeem didn't have a say in that or that Hakeem didn't orchestrate the offense (he did) to a ridiculous level is ludicrous.

Please go watch the actual games."

well said :applause:

[SuperPippen]

No, I did not watch the games live, nor did I ever suggest that I did.

I did suggest, however, that you are a fool for trying to assert your judgment of a game that you have never seen.

[TonyMontana]

Yes, it would be inaccurate to say that he 'owned' Shaq, but he did outplay and outperform Shaq. This is something that can only be seen by actually watching the games instead of analysing stats with no context, which is what you are shamelessly doing.

From another post I made before...

"It was a sweep and Shaq himself will tell you that Hakeem whooped his ass. And you're going to let blind stats dictate your opinion of it?

I'll give you Shaq outplaying Hakeem in game 1, he was incredible in this game. Orlando really should have won that game, and it was very unfortunate that Anderson choked that game away. But Hakeem did have the game winning tip.

The flaw in your stats based argument comes to light in game 2: Shaq had better all round stats than Hakeem (33-12-7 vs 34-11-2), but it doesn't say anything about CONTEXT. The Rockets slaughtered Orlando in the first half where Hakeem did most of his damage, and while I hate to throw the term 'stat padding' around, Shaq did his in the second half when Orlando never came all that close to Houston. Hakeem dominated Shaq in this one, and Shaq couldn't live with Hakeem one on one (watch the game).

In game 3... pretty similar performances. Horry really made the difference in this game and Hakeem & Shaq both played well.

Hakeem completely dominated Shaq in game 4 to seal the victory. Even your stats will point to this.

Don't get me wrong, by that stage, Shaq was already 'unguardable' and he was already amazing. But Hakeem outplayed him in that series. This is what watching games tells you. I agree that Hakeem's team mates outplayed Shaq's, but it's ironic because Orlando actually went into that game seen as the team with a better supporting cast.

The reason they won was that Hakeem's team mates stepped up, but to suggest that Hakeem didn't have a say in that or that Hakeem didn't orchestrate the offense (he did) to a ridiculous level is ludicrous.

Please go watch the actual games."

How old are you to have watched the actual games?

Shaq is just giving the veteran hall of famer in his prime respect(deserved). Hows he going to look if he says "Yea me and Hakeem were on equal footing, but I didn't get the help that he did". Only JR Smith like characters would say that kind of shit.

And just so you know, points/rebounds and all that count just as much in the first quarter as they do in the 3rd quarter or the 4th quarter. This is a pathetlic level people go to try and talk shit. "Oh well where was he in the 4th quarter?". "Where was he in the 1st quarter?". What matters is the production provided by the end of the game.


No, I did not watch the games live

Didn't think so.

[Inactive]

No one got owned, but Hakeem outplayed Shaq. Watch the games.

[KG215]

How old are you to have watched the actual games?

Shaq is just giving the veteran hall of famer in his prime respect(deserved). Hows he going to look if he says "Yea me and Hakeem were on equal footing, but I didn't get the help that he did". Only JR Smith like characters would say that kind of shit.

And just so you know, points/rebounds and all that count just as much in the first quarter as they do in the 3rd quarter or the 4th quarter. This is a pathetlic level people go to try and talk shit. "Oh well where was he in the 4th quarter?". "Where was he in the 1st quarter?". What matters is the production provided by the end of the game.

:facepalm

It's almost like you didn't even read his post.

[Indian guy]

Hakeem's entire career has become a bit of a myth. Great as he was from 93-95, revisionist history has turned him into this flawless player who played like that his whole career. And because of it, quite a few end up ranking him above players(Shaq, Duncan, LeBron & Kobe) he has no business being ranked ahead of. Not by any metric.

Anyway, colts18 of RealGM did a possession by possession breakdown of Hakeem vs. Shaq in the '95 Finals. Put an end to a lot of myths.


I decided to rewatch the 1995 finals and chart each possession to see to how effective Shaq and Hakeem were on the court. A special shout out to Jordanbulls for providing the video of this series


Total:
Hakeem: 253 touches, 140 doubles (55.3%)
Shaq: 221 touches, 146 doubles (66.1%)

Here are their stats when they were guarded by each other:
Shaq 32-57 (56.1 FG%), 6-8 FT, 67.3 double teamed%, .578 TS%, 17 assists, 1 O-reb allowed to Hakeem
Hakeem: 31-75 (41.3 FG%), 9-13 FT, 60.2 double teamed%, .446 TS%, 8 assists, 3 O-reb allowed to Shaq

Shaq blocked 2 Hakeem shots, Hakeem blocked 0 Shaq shots. Hakeem did make a 3P on Shaq. Hakeem guarded Shaq on 73.3% of the touches he had, while Shaq guarded Hakeem on 69.6% of his touches. Hakeem got a lot more fastbreak touches than Shaq so in the halfcourt, they guarded each other about even.

When they weren't being guarded by each other, Shaq was being guarded by Charles Jones and Hakeem by Horace Grant.

Shaq vs Jones: 7-11 FG (63.6 FG%), 35 doubles in 52 touches (67.3%), 2 assists
Hakeem vs Grant: 13-24 (54.2 FG%), 33 double teams in 58 touches (56.9%), 6 assists

Jump shots:
Hakeem: 27-62 (43.5%)
Shaq: 2-7 (28.6%)

The vast majority of Shaq's shots were close range hooks.

Dunks:
Hakeem: 1 dunk (vs grant)
Shaq: 9 dunks (2 of them were in Hakeem's face)

Fouls drawn on offense:
Shaq: 37 (17 on Hakeem)
Hakeem: 21 (9 on Shaq)

Hakeem did draw 4 Shaq charges.

Shaq was called for 5 travels, Hakeem 2.

Plus/Minus (Houston outscored Orlando by 28 points total):
On court:
Shaq: -12 in 180 minutes
Hakeem: +17 in 179 minutes

Off court:
Shaq: -16 in 16:37 of action (Houston scored 133 points per 48 in the minutes Shaq missed)
Hakeem: +11 in 17:11 of action (134 points per 48 in the minutes he was off the court)

Interestingly enough, in 2 of the games, the Magic outscored the Rockets when Shaq was on the court. The magic were -8 in about 9 minutes of action without Shaq in game (lost by just 2 points). In game 3, they were -4 in the minutes Shaq missed in a game where they lost by 3 points. In game 1, the Rockets outscored the magic by 9 in the minutes Hakeem missed, but they were outscored by a combined 4 points in games 3 and 4 without Hakeem.

Observations:
-Orlando was for some reason really committed to doubling Hakeem in game 1. They were throwing a lot of hard doubles. Hakeem had 5 assists in that game, all of them 3 pointers, 4 came off of doubles (one was a triple team). I'm guessing it was a response to Hakeem's series vs Robinson. For the rest of the series, Orlando didn't double Hakeem as much and they threw softer doubles.

-Hakeem made like 5 or 6 baskets in transition to Shaq's 1 or so. So while Shaq didn't get credit for giving up those buckets since he didn't guard, a few of those times Shaq was slow in transition. Shaq got about 3 or shots

-One of the commentators compared Horry to Scottie Pippen and Walton took the comment seriously. They are vastly different players IMO

-I'm not sure why Penny wasn't more aggressive. Kenny Smith couldn't guard him at all. When Penny did drive to the basket, he made a few shots over Hakeem.

-Drexler was the man in this series. He really wanted to get his first title badly. For some reason, people rarely talk about him despite him getting more WS than Hakeem in that playoff run

-It's fashionable these days to **** on Hakeem's cast in 94, but this cast was much better than that one. The guards outplayed Orlando's guards. Horry played really well. The 3P shooters benefited a lot from the shortened 3P line.

-Contrary to popular belief, handchecking wasn't allowed in 95. The refs called like 2 handchecking fouls in this series

-I'm so thankful the NBA got rid of the illegal defense. The refs called like 5 of them in each game. It destroyed the flow of the game and limited the ways you could double team a player.

[SuperPippen]

Watch the damn games before you try to discuss them, idiot.

[TonyMontana]

Just watched the first quarter.

Hakeem went 4-6 for 10 points.

3 of those baskets came when Horace Grant was on him.(from either switches or when Shaq went to the bench with foul trouble).

Man looks like Shaqs not even going to be the guy he gets the majority of his points against. Really disapointing. Watching the games just exposes this "ownage".

:facepalm

[K Xerxes]

How old are you to have watched the actual games?

I'm 28 and actually watched that finals when I was 10. Naturally I don't claim to remember it all back then, but I watched the whole thing last year. Unlike you of course. Unbelievable that you have the audacity to make such a strong assertion without ever watching the games.

The rest of your post isn't worth responding to.

[TonyMontana]

Hakeem's entire career has become a bit of a myth. Great as he was from 93-95, revisionist history has turned him into this flawless player who played like that his whole career. And because of it, quite a few end up ranking him above players(Shaq, Duncan, LeBron & Kobe) he has no business being ranked ahead of. Not by any metric.

Anyway, colts18 of RealGM did a possession by possession breakdown of Hakeem vs. Shaq in the '95 Finals. Put an end to a lot of myths.

Wow thanks for that. I was thinking of doing something like that.

Just finished the first half and when these guys guard eachother it is so obvious to anyone with actual basketball knowledge that Shaq is destroying him. Houston has to send all 5 guys in the paint when Shaq makes his move. The only chance Hakeem has is when Shaq takes a fadaway hookshot bailing him out. I saw just saw Shaq finish an alley oop over him that would have proably been the play of the year if it happened in 2013.

Hakeem 41% shooting with Shaq guarding him.

Wow awesome. From what I'm seeing Hakeem has no chance vs Shaq. He is getting his points on defensive breakdowns/switches or Shaq is on the bench and Horace Grant has to guard him.

Glad to see that the stats support what I'm seeing with my eyes.

We got some armchair elitist in here(im looking at SuperPippen and X Kerves), but looks like their the ones who never watched the games. Pathetic. :oldlol:

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

So, you haven't actually watched the games, and yet you are still attempting to make a definitive statement on how one player fared against another based solely on statistics...... :facepalm

I'm 28 and actually watched that finals when I was 10. Naturally I don't claim to remember it all back then, but I watched the whole thing last year. Unlike you of course. Unbelievable that you have the audacity to make such a strong assertion without ever watching the games.

The rest of your post isn't worth responding to.
qft. (in fact I'm the exact same as you Xerxes - 28 and watched those Finals, though dont remember much. But in that best NBA game you've ever watched thread, I put the Nick Anderson missed FT game among most memorable)

[ZaaaaaH]

Yes, it would be inaccurate to say that he 'owned' Shaq, but he did outplay and outperform Shaq. This is something that can only be seen by actually watching the games instead of analysing stats with no context, which is what you are shamelessly doing.

From another post I made before...

"It was a sweep and Shaq himself will tell you that Hakeem whooped his ass. And you're going to let blind stats dictate your opinion of it?

I'll give you Shaq outplaying Hakeem in game 1, he was incredible in this game. Orlando really should have won that game, and it was very unfortunate that Anderson choked that game away. But Hakeem did have the game winning tip.

The flaw in your stats based argument comes to light in game 2: Shaq had better all round stats than Hakeem (33-12-7 vs 34-11-2), but it doesn't say anything about CONTEXT. The Rockets slaughtered Orlando in the first half where Hakeem did most of his damage, and while I hate to throw the term 'stat padding' around, Shaq did his in the second half when Orlando never came all that close to Houston. Hakeem dominated Shaq in this one, and Shaq couldn't live with Hakeem one on one (watch the game).

In game 3... pretty similar performances. Horry really made the difference in this game and Hakeem & Shaq both played well.

Hakeem completely dominated Shaq in game 4 to seal the victory. Even your stats will point to this.

Don't get me wrong, by that stage, Shaq was already 'unguardable' and he was already amazing. But Hakeem outplayed him in that series. This is what watching games tells you. I agree that Hakeem's team mates outplayed Shaq's, but it's ironic because Orlando actually went into that game seen as the team with a better supporting cast.

The reason they won was that Hakeem's team mates stepped up, but to suggest that Hakeem didn't have a say in that or that Hakeem didn't orchestrate the offense (he did) to a ridiculous level is ludicrous.

Please go watch the actual games."

:applause:

If my memory is correct Huston also lost 2 games during regular season to the Magic which came into factor of game 1.

Honestly it was very fair match up and really came down to roll players knocking down 3's. Both teams played inside out and played very similar defense but Hakeem just made better decision when he was doubled.

[millwad]

I've seen the finals multiple of times and I've also made a thread about it before regarding how some claimed Olajuwon destroyed Shaq, which is false.

Shaq held his own and during Olajuwon's back-to-back title runs he was the one who gave him the toughest time, he played Olajuwon much better than prime Robinson and Ewing which is impressive when you think about Shaq's age at that time.

With that said, Olajuwon did outplay Shaq, he didn't slaughter him or anything like that, but he definitely outplayed him.

Shaq got the best of Olajuwon in game 1 while Olajuwon clearly outplayed Olajuwon in 2 games while one was a draw at best..

[JohnnySic]

He didn't dominate Shaq (like he did Robinson) but he did outplay him. And yes, I watched that series live.

[millwad]

I think there's two reasons why the myth about Hakeem slaughtering Shaq started.

1. Shaq has a famous quote after a game in the playoffs against Portland where he says the following;


"I won't be trying to miss those again," he said. "You guys know how I get when I have a game off. I come in the next game [ticked] off. And now they're talking, so I'm really [ticked] off now. So, I've got something for them."
He added that he'd play "a man's game."
"If I'm going to fight you, I'd rather just beat you," he said. "If I can't beat you, I'll be a man and say I can't beat you. I'm not going to [cry about it]. . . . I'm the first guy to say that somebody is better than me. I was the first guy to say Hakeem Olajuwon beat me in the [1995] NBA finals. He killed me. He dominated me. I didn't go, 'Oh, he's traveling. They had experience. Wah-wah-wah.' I'm a man. Hakeem Olajuwon dusted my butt. These guys now are crying, 'Three seconds!' It's just funny to me."

Olajuwon didn't kill Shaq like Shaq claimed, he outplayed him though.

2. Olajuwon had one the greatest series of all-time vs David Robinson where he absolutely destroyed Drob in the WCF and considering that Olajuwon and the Rockets swept Shaq and the Magic it probably added some to the myth.

[vincentda]

Here's my take (http://ballislife.com/shaq-vs-hakeem/) on the myth based off watching all 4 games when they happened and personal recent conversations with Tracy Murray & Robert Horry.

I also talk about the Pay Per View Event between Shaq & Hakeem that was cancelled at the last minute by Hakeem.

[NumberSix]

I watched that series live, but I was on 12.

[Spaulding]

Shaq said he was outplayed by Hakeem on Open Court.

[ILLsmak]

I watched the games live. Let's not act like that was so long ago lol.

I wasn't old, tho, but I understood what was going on. Long story short: Nick Anderson bricked those FTs and Orlando had a bunch of games where they shot more poorly from 3. It was pretty even inside.

-Smak

[lakerspng]

Hakeem outplayed him and his team won. He didn't dominate him. Shaq is not quite Bill Walton, but he is given to hyperbole. You guys should know that. He would say someone whooped him, if he beat him for the tip off. That's just Shaq's personality. Over the top with self-agrandizing statements and self-depricating statements at the same time.

[andremiller07]

Damn both had 6+ assists per game crazy from the C spot.

[SamuraiSWISH]

5 ppg is kind of a major difference. Especially in the elite upper echelon of volume ppg numbers.

[jlip]

Here's my take (http://ballislife.com/shaq-vs-hakeem/) on the myth based off watching all 4 games when they happened and personal recent conversations with Tracy Murray & Robert Horry.

I also talk about the Pay Per View Event between Shaq & Hakeem that was cancelled at the last minute by Hakeem.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

WOW! I never knew about that.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Stop looking at stats with no context. You Lebron trolls are all about that, watching the game is the most legitimate way to judge a players performance.

Stats are best when looked at AFTER WATCHING the game

[LAZERUSS]

Here's my take (http://ballislife.com/shaq-vs-hakeem/) on the myth based off watching all 4 games when they happened and personal recent conversations with Tracy Murray & Robert Horry.

I also talk about the Pay Per View Event between Shaq & Hakeem that was cancelled at the last minute by Hakeem.

Soe interesting info there...


← Previous PostNext Post →Dream vs. Diesel: 90 mins of the 2 battling each other in 1995 NBA Finals + the pay per view event that never happened
David Astramskas June 15, 2013 4,221 views
1430 EmailShare

One of the most upsetting things I constantly hear from kids is that Hakeem dominated Shaq in the 1995 NBA Finals. I had a conversation with the current coach of the Ballup Streetball Team and teammate of Hakeem during their 2nd championship Tracy Murray yesterday and we talked in-depth about the series and how Hakeem may have been consistently great in that series but it was the role players for the Rockets that stepped up in every game and the role players for the Magic that disappeared and chocked that won the Rockets the championship.

For Houston, we had Kenny Smith hitting a 3 with 1.6 seconds left to put the game into OT after Nick Anderson missed 4 consecutive free throws. Dennis Scott was also MIA for the Orlando while Drexler was putting up big numbers and leading the team in assists. The Magic bench was non-existent and the Rockets had Sam Cassell scoring 30. Then we have Robert Horry, who was 2nd in Finals MVP voting, setting multiple NBA Finals records for 3′s and steals and sealed game 3 with a 3 pointer in the final 20 seconds of the game.

I had this same conversation with Robert Horry a couple of years ago and even though he said he would take Hakeem over Shaq (who he also won 3 rings with) he was in agreement that Hakeem and his impressive 33/12/6/2/2 average in the finals did not dominate Shaq and his almost as impressive 29/13/6/0/3 average that included a 26 point 16 rebound 9 assist game 1 and 33 point 12 rebound 7 assist game 2.

Another thing that both former Rockets were obviously in disagreement with me about is my statement that the Magic would have won the series if Nick Anderson wouldn’t of missed those free throws at the end of game 1. I thought it changed the mindset of both teams but both players said that the Clutch City Rockets was such a poised and complete team that they weren’t even nervous when they were down in double figures in game 1. The thought of losing the series to the young Shaq and Magic was never more than just a thought.



A month later, Taco Bell put together an exciting campaign with Shaq and Hakeem that started with a 1 page ad in the USA Today with a one on one challenge from Shaq to Hakeem. The letter ended up being a promotional piece for a pay per view one-on-one game between the two centers that summer but due to a “sore sacroiliac from lifting weights,” Hakeem backed out of the event a day before the event was supposed to happen.

← Previous PostNext Post →Dream vs. Diesel: 90 mins of the 2 battling each other in 1995 NBA Finals + the pay per view event that never happened
David Astramskas June 15, 2013 4,221 views
1430 EmailShare

One of the most upsetting things I constantly hear from kids is that Hakeem dominated Shaq in the 1995 NBA Finals. I had a conversation with the current coach of the Ballup Streetball Team and teammate of Hakeem during their 2nd championship Tracy Murray yesterday and we talked in-depth about the series and how Hakeem may have been consistently great in that series but it was the role players for the Rockets that stepped up in every game and the role players for the Magic that disappeared and chocked that won the Rockets the championship.

For Houston, we had Kenny Smith hitting a 3 with 1.6 seconds left to put the game into OT after Nick Anderson missed 4 consecutive free throws. Dennis Scott was also MIA for the Orlando while Drexler was putting up big numbers and leading the team in assists. The Magic bench was non-existent and the Rockets had Sam Cassell scoring 30. Then we have Robert Horry, who was 2nd in Finals MVP voting, setting multiple NBA Finals records for 3′s and steals and sealed game 3 with a 3 pointer in the final 20 seconds of the game.

I had this same conversation with Robert Horry a couple of years ago and even though he said he would take Hakeem over Shaq (who he also won 3 rings with) he was in agreement that Hakeem and his impressive 33/12/6/2/2 average in the finals did not dominate Shaq and his almost as impressive 29/13/6/0/3 average that included a 26 point 16 rebound 9 assist game 1 and 33 point 12 rebound 7 assist game 2.

Another thing that both former Rockets were obviously in disagreement with me about is my statement that the Magic would have won the series if Nick Anderson wouldn’t of missed those free throws at the end of game 1. I thought it changed the mindset of both teams but both players said that the Clutch City Rockets was such a poised and complete team that they weren’t even nervous when they were down in double figures in game 1. The thought of losing the series to the young Shaq and Magic was never more than just a thought.



A month later, Taco Bell put together an exciting campaign with Shaq and Hakeem that started with a 1 page ad in the USA Today with a one on one challenge from Shaq to Hakeem. The letter ended up being a promotional piece for a pay per view one-on-one game between the two centers that summer but due to a “sore sacroiliac from lifting weights,” Hakeem backed out of the event a day before the event was supposed to happen.

Taco Bell thought about trying to find a last minute replacement and everybody from Alonzo to a tag-team of Mugsy and Spud Webb were considered but ended up just cancelling the event and refunding the estimated million dollars in buys. Shaq was very disappointed and taking the event much more seriously than the commercials he ended up putting out with the Dream. Since the event never happened and people don’t remember regular season games (where Shaq usually outplayed Hakeem) all most people have is boxscores and youtube clips and the misconception that Shaq was dominated by Hakeem for four games in 1995.




Of course, aside from Colts18, whose take was right on...

Here were the REAL facts of that series...

Hakeem's teammates just ANNIHILATED Shaq's. Shaq averaged 6.3 apg in that series, and if his brick-laying teammates could have hit anything remotely close to a normal percentage, it would have been considerably higher.

Hakeem's TEAMMATES outshot Shaq's TEAMMATES from the field by a .467 to .434 margin. And it was even worse from the arc... .402 to .347.

Then, think about this...

Take Shaq and Hakeem's FT's MADE out of the equation (and BTW, Shaq MADE more...(24-18)...and Hakeem's teammates outscored Shaq's by a 78-37 margin in that series...or 41 points.

Now, in game one, Hakeem's Rockets beat Shaq's Magic, 120-118. We all know that Nick Anderson missed four straight FTs in the last 10 secs, but to add to that, take away Shaq's and Hakeem's made FTs, and the Hakeem's teammates outscored Shaq's by a 13-7 margin from the line.

How about game two? First of all, I get a kick out of those that claim that Hakeem outplayed Shaq in the first half, and that Shaq's 23 second half points were meaningless. the FACT was, Hakeem was a beaten dog in the second half. He was physically beaten to a pulp. Furthermore, had Shaq not gotten into some questionable foul trouble in the first half, the game might have been mych different. In any case, the Rockets won by 11 points, and Hakeem's teammates outscored Shaq's from the line, by a 28-9 margin.

Game three. More of the same. Houston wins 106-103...and Hakeem's teammates outscore Shaq's from the line by a 18-13 margin. BTW, Hakeem outscored Shaq, 31-28, but he went 14-30 from the field, while Shaq went 11-17. Pretty much the way of the entire series. Hakeem scored 4.8 ppg more in the seties, but took over 10 more FGAs per game to do so.

Game four. More of the same. Hakeem's teammates outscore Shaq's from the line by an 18-8 margin...in a 12 point win. This is the ONLY game in the series in which Hakeem outplayed Shaq.

And, don't forget that this was a 22 year old Shaq, playing against a Hakeem in his his absolute prime. Oh, and BTW, the Hakeem fans will never mention that a 26 year old Shaq just obliterated a 36 year old Hakeem a couple of years later in yet just another first round exit for Hakeem.

[SmackOrH.A.K]

Maybe not "owned" but Shaq put it: "I was dominated, Hakeem kicked my butt".

[IGOTGAME]

Maybe not "owned" but Shaq put it: "I was dominated, Hakeem kicked my butt".
Definitely wasn't even close to dominated. If your wholes teams strategy is to stop your man and he still puts up numbers on that efficiency then you didn't dominate anything.

This also goes to show how much better Prime Shaq was...if he couldn't really guard this version ofnShaq then 2001 Shaq would have shitted on him.

[Bandito]

Why is OP talking about the 95 Finals like he saw it?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I'd say it was similar to Lebron vs Durant in 2012. Numbers are close but if you watched the games you'd clearly see Lebron outplaying Durant.

[TonyMontana]

Hakeem didn't even "outplay" Shaq. I sat through and watched all of their possessions against one another. Hakeem was VERY ineffective when matched up against Shaq. He required TONS of help to defend him, he straight up couldn't handle Shaq at all and this guy is considered the top defensive center ever?

41% FG vs Shaq and 44 TS% vs him. That is Allen Iverson efficiency right there for a CENTER.

Hakeem exploited the matchup when Shaq wasn't on him. Good for him, but it just shows he couldn't handle Shaq straight up on either end of the court.


Here's my take (http://ballislife.com/shaq-vs-hakeem/) on the myth based off watching all 4 games when they happened and personal recent conversations with Tracy Murray & Robert Horry.

I also talk about the Pay Per View Event between Shaq & Hakeem that was cancelled at the last minute by Hakeem.

Good info all around. :D Surprised not to see bias since it says your from Houston.

Had no idea about that pay per view thing.

[Cosmonaut]

This sort of thread shows you how dumb the people on this board are.

You haven't even watched the games and you have the audacity to open your dumb ass mouth talking about who dominated who. The fact you even said you haven't watched the games shows how ****in dumb you are.

Seriously delete your account and yourself from existence

[IGOTGAME]

This sort of thread shows you how dumb the people on this board are.

You haven't even watched the games and you have the audacity to open your dumb ass mouth talking about who dominated who. The fact you even said you haven't watched the games shows how ****in dumb you are.

Seriously delete your account and yourself from existence

Is it possible to dominate someone who puts up those numbers on you. Outplay yes? Dominate, no...

If you think that's silly then you are obviously not familiar with the term.

[juju151111]

How old are you to have watched the actual games?

Shaq is just giving the veteran hall of famer in his prime respect(deserved). Hows he going to look if he says "Yea me and Hakeem were on equal footing, but I didn't get the help that he did". Only JR Smith like characters would say that kind of shit.

And just so you know, points/rebounds and all that count just as much in the first quarter as they do in the 3rd quarter or the 4th quarter. This is a pathetlic level people go to try and talk shit. "Oh well where was he in the 4th quarter?". "Where was he in the 1st quarter?". What matters is the production provided by the end of the game.



Didn't think so.
No Shaq has disrespected every center at point in his career except Hakeem. He has thrashed Wilt, Kareem etc.... Every single interview I have seen with Shaq even at his cocky 00-06 he never disrespected him.

[millwad]

Soe interesting info there...



You've never replied this fact..

Based on stats, you are very willing to give the edge to Shaq in the '95 finals even though Olajuwon clearly outplayed him in 2 games, while Shaq only got Olajuwon in one game and while one was a draw at best for Shaq.

So yeah, that's based on stats only.

Why don't you give a damn about stats in the '72 series between Kareem and Wilt?

In that series Wilt gets outscored with 23 points per game on better FG%, he outassists Wilt, he shot FT's with better FG% and he held Wilt to a low FG% and still you couldn't care less about stats. Now when it fits your agenda you are more than willing to only judge based on stats because it fits your agenda.

You're pathetic.

[millwad]

Hakeem didn't even "outplay" Shaq. I sat through and watched all of their possessions against one another. Hakeem was VERY ineffective when matched up against Shaq. He required TONS of help to defend him, he straight up couldn't handle Shaq at all and this guy is considered the top defensive center ever?

41% FG vs Shaq and 44 TS% vs him. That is Allen Iverson efficiency right there for a CENTER.

Hakeem exploited the matchup when Shaq wasn't on him. Good for him, but it just shows he couldn't handle Shaq straight up on either end of the court.



Good info all around. :D Surprised not to see bias since it says your from Houston.

Had no idea about that pay per view thing.


Of course you claim that now after you wrote a thread with a clear message about how Shaq didn't get owned.


I guess Shaq, every reporter, every player and the media were wrong and that TonyMontana on ISH is the one that is right.

[Mr Exlax]

Tony just watch the games. Hakeem didn't own him though. He did outplay him and out performed him. Simple as that. Just watch them bro.

[riseagainst]

Of course you claim that now after you wrote a thread with a clear message about how Shaq didn't get owned.


I guess Shaq, every reporter, every player and the media were wrong and that TonyMontana on ISH is the one that is right.

:oldlol:

[SilkkTheShocker]

KG will be the next player to get the Hakeem Treatment once he retires.

[kNicKz]

OP has never seen Shaq or Hakeem play a live game, let alone the 1995 finals

[Soundwave]

How f*cking hard is it to watch the series itself? Isn't it all over Youtube?

I can understand people having arguments like this for Wilt/Russell because we simply don't have good video footage of a lot of their games. But 1995? Gimme a break.

[lefthook00]

Remember that Shaq in the finals usually = best ever performances, and you see that Shaq was held to near regular season averages vs. Hakeem, then you realize that Shaq was held back quite a lot and out-performed. Pretty simple.

[rezznor]

http://cbbasketball.johningraffia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Hakeem-and-Shaq-Buddiful-Bike-Rides.jpg

[rezznor]

No Shaq has disrespected every center at point in his career except Hakeem. He has thrashed Wilt, Kareem etc.... Every single interview I have seen with Shaq even at his cocky 00-06 he never disrespected him.
yeah shaq has a huge (deserved) ego. he doesn't hand out compliments to opposing centers very often. i find it funny that the only 2 centers i can think of that he has ever given props to were from the rockets.

[juju151111]

yeah shaq has a huge (deserved) ego. he doesn't hand out compliments to opposing centers very often. i find it funny that the only 2 centers i can think of that he has ever given props to were from the rockets.
Exactly

[Electric Slide]

Maybe not "owned" but Shaq put it: "I was dominated, Hakeem kicked my butt".
lol at using a Shaq quote to make a point. The guy is just making an attempt at being humble and classy but everyone knows he is as conceited as Jordan was.


There is nothing more hilarious than when someone says "go watch the games" either. The point of stats is to remove bias, just because you see something that way doesn't mean it actually did.

The only people that say "I'm going to use the eye-test" are generally people who support a player that has weak stats, *cough Kobe fans cough*. If their favorite player did indeed have dominant stats then they would be using those stats all day. People just use whatever argument they can to support their favorite player even if it seriously contradicts with what they think.

Hakeem outplayed Shaq but anyone that thinks he dominated him or owned him is a complete idiot.

[AlphaWolf24]

:lol at using stats and " breakdowns of possesions"....

- I watched the series live...dream absolutley merked Shaq and the Orlando Magic.

- of course it wasn't a 1 on 1 game.....but Dream came through time and time again to lead his team.....while Shaq looked lost on the court many times

crucial Buketz = check!

crucial defensive plays = check!

heck even leading the fast break a few times in crunch time = check!

getting switched on Shaq ( both on offense and defense) and still making big plays = check!

- watching that series definatley felt like a ...master Jedi toying with a padawan...




- only a bunch of basketball illiterates look at stats 20 years later and derp derp about Dream " not really abusing Shaq"....

- Did MJ abuse Drexler in 92'???...Drexler still put up great stats........

it was a clinic if there ever was one......it was no myth ....it was televised for everyone to see....and for the lucky ones...we did.



and that's why we own it.



pssst next

[TonyMontana]

I watched the games and it's obvious that Olauwon straight up can't handle Shaq.

Either you armchair elitists havn't even watched the games(forming your opinion on articles written by other idiots) or you dont understand basketball and can't read what is actually going on.

The breakdown of how they fared when guarding eachother posted on page 1 by "Indian Guy" shows that Shaq indeed owned Olajuwon. Hakeem couldn't score on him, and he couldn't contain him without help.

The Rockets owned the Magic, dont confuse this as Hakeem owning Shaq. That result is because of better coaching/gameplanning, and the role players stepping up.

Shaq was better than prime Hakeem even as a 23 year old.

[millwad]

I watched the games and it's obvious that Olauwon straight up can't handle Shaq.

Either you armchair elitists havn't even watched the games(forming your opinion on articles written by other idiots) or you dont understand basketball and can't read what is actually going on.

The breakdown of how they fared when guarding eachother posted on page 1 by "Indian Guy" shows that Shaq indeed owned Olajuwon. Hakeem couldn't score on him, and he couldn't contain him without help.

The Rockets owned the Magic, dont confuse this as Hakeem owning Shaq. That result is because of better coaching/gameplanning, and the role players stepping up.

Shaq was better than prime Hakeem even as a 23 year old.

Again, TonyMontana on ISH is right while every single reporter, the media, the players themself, Shaq and the fans are wrong. TM is especially right considering the fact that he started this thread without seeing a single bit of this series.

TonyMontana, since you now saw this series, please tell us which one of the games Shaq got the best of Olajuwon and then the other way around.

[Legends66NBA7]

yeah shaq has a huge (deserved) ego. he doesn't hand out compliments to opposing centers very often. i find it funny that the only 2 centers i can think of that he has ever given props to were from the rockets.

Hasn't he given props to Bill Russell ?

[TonyMontana]

Again, TonyMontana on ISH is right while every single reporter, the media, the players themself, Shaq and the fans are wrong. TM is especially right considering the fact that he started this thread without seeing a single bit of this series.


Yeah your right.

Shaq should have went up to reporters afterwards and immediately put it on record that he owned Hakeem when matched up with him. :oldlol:

Are you people that socially clueless where you expect shit like that to happen? His bullshit about Hakeem killing him was to show respect to the veteran hall of famer. Just politically correct garbage to promote his image. If he says the truth he just gets blasted by the media.

Oh.... and

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/100803.19.jpg



TonyMontana, since you now saw this series, please tell us which one of the games Shaq got the best of Olajuwon and then the other way around

All of them.

Anyone watching the games can see that Shaq is by far the better player when these guys are matched up against one another. Shaq overpowers him both in strength and size. Without help Hakeem was powerless to do anything to stop him , while Hakeem is shooting 41% against Shaq on the other end of the floor.

Am I supposed to care about what Hakeem does vs Horace Grant? I could give two shits. I'm looking strictly at Hakeem vs Shaq, not the Rockets vs the Magic.

[AlphaWolf24]

I watched the games and it's obvious that Olauwon straight up can't handle Shaq.

Either you armchair elitists havn't even watched the games(forming your opinion on articles written by other idiots) or you dont understand basketball and can't read what is actually going on.

The breakdown of how they fared when guarding eachother posted on page 1 by "Indian Guy" shows that Shaq indeed owned Olajuwon. Hakeem couldn't score on him, and he couldn't contain him without help.

The Rockets owned the Magic, dont confuse this as Hakeem owning Shaq. That result is because of better coaching/gameplanning, and the role players stepping up.

Shaq was better than prime Hakeem even as a 23 year old.

- deeeez Fakeeen Kaka roachez.......


- mane...take yo stats and "on paper breakdowns" and shuve dem up yo cuuto...


- Dream played the Magic/Shaq like fiddle....drawing doubles and triple teams ( seriously...why did Orlando triple team Dream so much?....dey was shook as hell that's why) and attacking the post at will....

Making Shaq hold the ball ( while neglecting his teammates).....and then speeding up the game to wear Shaq out.

most importantly in key moments Dream came through and made Game winning plays...He simply outclassed , outplayed , outsmarted, destroyed Shaq and the Magic...

- looking at the stats?...1 on 1 breakdowns?.....:lol ( like I said in another thread...it's like F#cking with the lights off double wrapped)


you missing out on the most important feelings

[funnystuff]

Yes, it would be inaccurate to say that he 'owned' Shaq, but he did outplay and outperform Shaq. This is something that can only be seen by actually watching the games instead of analysing stats with no context, which is what you are shamelessly doing.

From another post I made before...

"It was a sweep and Shaq himself will tell you that Hakeem whooped his ass. And you're going to let blind stats dictate your opinion of it?

I'll give you Shaq outplaying Hakeem in game 1, he was incredible in this game. Orlando really should have won that game, and it was very unfortunate that Anderson choked that game away. But Hakeem did have the game winning tip.

The flaw in your stats based argument comes to light in game 2: Shaq had better all round stats than Hakeem (33-12-7 vs 34-11-2), but it doesn't say anything about CONTEXT. The Rockets slaughtered Orlando in the first half where Hakeem did most of his damage, and while I hate to throw the term 'stat padding' around, Shaq did his in the second half when Orlando never came all that close to Houston. Hakeem dominated Shaq in this one, and Shaq couldn't live with Hakeem one on one (watch the game).

In game 3... pretty similar performances. Horry really made the difference in this game and Hakeem & Shaq both played well.

Hakeem completely dominated Shaq in game 4 to seal the victory. Even your stats will point to this.

Don't get me wrong, by that stage, Shaq was already 'unguardable' and he was already amazing. But Hakeem outplayed him in that series. This is what watching games tells you. I agree that Hakeem's team mates outplayed Shaq's, but it's ironic because Orlando actually went into that game seen as the team with a better supporting cast.

The reason they won was that Hakeem's team mates stepped up, but to suggest that Hakeem didn't have a say in that or that Hakeem didn't orchestrate the offense (he did) to a ridiculous level is ludicrous.

Please go watch the actual games."
Learn how to use quotes or go back to fking school.



Jordan stans uneducated. :rolleyes:

[PJR]

Shaq can blame Nick Anderson for this perception that he was 'owned' by Hakeem and the Rockets. :lol

[DCL]

i actually just rewatched the series a short while ago, and for most games, it did seem like shaq was kinda scoring at will for a couple quarters, but the difference between young shaq and prime olajuwon was that olajuwon always played better in the last minutes of the game. when the score was tight, he simply didn't f--k up in crunch time. he literally carried that team. when they needed a bucket, olajuwon went to work and delivered.

on paper, it seemed like it was even stats. but in reality, olajuwon was passing knowledge to young shaq. champions show up and turn shit up during the most critical moments. it was a good lesson because prime shaq did evolve into that.

[Legends66NBA7]

Learn how to use quotes or go back to fking school.

Seems like he did just fine.

[longhornfan1234]

Prime Hakeem barely outplayed Baby Shaq.

[DCL]

i don't believe the word "owning" should be used because neither of them owned the other. "owning" someone is something you'd describe for what jordan did to clyde drexler. that's OWNAGE.

[longhornfan1234]

i don't believe the word "owning" should be used because neither of them owned the other. "owning" someone is something you'd describe for what jordan did to clyde drexler. that's OWNAGE.
...or what Hakeem did to the Admiral and Ewing.

[millwad]

Prime Hakeem barely outplayed Baby Shaq.

You're the one who's underrating Shaq with calling him a baby, he was no baby.
Shaq was a damn fine basketball player and in '95 he was 2nd in the MVP voting, he was only 2nd or better two times more in his career. Stop underrating him.

Shaq in '95 also lead the league in field goals, he was 2nd in rebounds, 2nd in FG% and 1 in scoring.

[rezznor]

Hasn't he given props to Bill Russell ?
he could have, I don't know

[daily]

i actually just rewatched the series a short while ago, and for most games, it did seem like shaq was kinda scoring at will for a couple quarters, but the difference between young shaq and prime olajuwon was that olajuwon always played better in the last minutes of the game. when the score was tight, he simply didn't f--k up in crunch time. he literally carried that team. when they needed a bucket, olajuwon went to work and delivered.

on paper, it seemed like it was even stats. but in reality, olajuwon was passing knowledge to young shaq. champions show up and turn shit up during the most critical moments. it was a good lesson because prime shaq did evolve into that.Nice breakdown, thanks

[jlip]

Hasn't he given props to Bill Russell ?


he could have, I don't know

Yep. Shaq has definitely praised Bill Russell many times. Russell was the legend who basically encouraged Shaq to end the "feud" with Kobe. Also, Russell told Shaq when everyone was criticizing his poor ft% not to focus too heavily only that but to concentrate on becoming a better passer and team player.

[Legends66NBA7]

Yep. Shaq has definitely praised Bill Russell many times. Russell was the legend who basically encouraged Shaq to end the "feud" with Kobe. Also, Russell told Shaq when everyone was criticizing his poor ft% not to focus too heavily only that but to concentrate on becoming a better passer and team player.

Correct me I'm wrong, but I'm sure Magic Johnson was involved in this too, yes ?

[millwad]

i actually just rewatched the series a short while ago, and for most games, it did seem like shaq was kinda scoring at will for a couple quarters, but the difference between young shaq and prime olajuwon was that olajuwon always played better in the last minutes of the game. when the score was tight, he simply didn't f--k up in crunch time. he literally carried that team. when they needed a bucket, olajuwon went to work and delivered.

on paper, it seemed like it was even stats. but in reality, olajuwon was passing knowledge to young shaq. champions show up and turn shit up during the most critical moments. it was a good lesson because prime shaq did evolve into that.


Don't know if I agree, Shaq had his periods but he both lacked in scoring early and late in some games. In game 2 he was pretty bad in the first half and couldn't get it done and Olajuwon had a 22 point half which gave the Rockets a lead the Magic never really got close to tying.

Game 4 was easily Hakeem's as well, he was just better in that game and scored big a la 35 points while grabbing 15 rebounds and dished out 6 assists and Shaq really didn't come up with any answers.

[millwad]

And one thing that always gets forgotten is that Shaq was extremely turnover prone in that series.

He averaged 5.25 turnovers per game in the '95 finals, which is the highest turnover average by any center in NBA history in the finals.

[millwad]

Originally Posted by TonyMontana
That might be a legit point if Hakeem himself didn't average

4.5 turnovers per game
:oldlol::oldlol::oldlol:


Olajuwon averaged 2.75 turnovers per game in that series.

Nice math, moron, and thanks for admitting that it's a legit point.

Edit: How cute, you deleted your post... :facepalm

[michaelray]

Hey OP

you'd better look up h2h stats of David robinson & SHaq (before1997)

guess who get owned?

[longhornfan1234]

You're the one who's underrating Shaq with calling him a baby, he was no baby.
Shaq was a damn fine basketball player and in '95 he was 2nd in the MVP voting, he was only 2nd or better two times more in his career. Stop underrating him.

Shaq in '95 also lead the league in field goals, he was 2nd in rebounds, 2nd in FG% and 1 in scoring.


I called him Baby Shaq because he was young and not in his prime.

[AlphaWolf24]

I called him Baby Shaq because he was young and not in his prime.

Looking at both players in thier careers....Hakeem wasn't in his prime either....he was 32 and entering the twilight of his career...

the problem was not Shaq " was too young".....the problem was Orlando triple teaming Hakeem and Houston having great 3 point shooters....

- Hakeem had that ability to draw so much attention and find the open shooter

- seriously Robert F&**ing Horry!!! was amazing....as was Cassell.

- Shaq didn't have that as a weapon in that series....and as much Talent as Penny Hardaway had.....he never tok that to the next level in 95'....

- Shaq was an absolute monster in 95'...he was lean and quik.....Hakeem of course was also a Beast that year.....Both players played great...

I say Hakeem abused Shaq because..... Hakeem made some amazing plays in crunchtime....and his skillset played perfectly....( of course this is basketball....it's 5 on 5...no one abuses 1 on 1 all game long)

maybe if Orlando didn't double so much they wouldn't have died by the 3 ball.....who knos?......but Hakeem just made game winning plays.....Shaq looked frustrated and defeated.

[riseagainst]

Olajuwon averaged 2.75 turnovers per game in that series.

Nice math, moron, and thanks for admitting that it's a legit point.

Edit: How cute, you deleted your post... :facepalm

:roll: :roll:

TonyMontana getting ethered.

[The Iron Fist]

Soe interesting info there...




Of course, aside from Colts18, whose take was right on...

Here were the REAL facts of that series...

Hakeem's teammates just ANNIHILATED Shaq's. Shaq averaged 6.3 apg in that series, and if his brick-laying teammates could have hit anything remotely close to a normal percentage, it would have been considerably higher.

Hakeem's TEAMMATES outshot Shaq's TEAMMATES from the field by a .467 to .434 margin. And it was even worse from the arc... .402 to .347.

Then, think about this...

Take Shaq and Hakeem's FT's MADE out of the equation (and BTW, Shaq MADE more...(24-18)...and Hakeem's teammates outscored Shaq's by a 78-37 margin in that series...or 41 points.

Now, in game one, Hakeem's Rockets beat Shaq's Magic, 120-118. We all know that Nick Anderson missed four straight FTs in the last 10 secs, but to add to that, take away Shaq's and Hakeem's made FTs, and the Hakeem's teammates outscored Shaq's by a 13-7 margin from the line.

How about game two? First of all, I get a kick out of those that claim that Hakeem outplayed Shaq in the first half, and that Shaq's 23 second half points were meaningless. the FACT was, Hakeem was a beaten dog in the second half. He was physically beaten to a pulp. Furthermore, had Shaq not gotten into some questionable foul trouble in the first half, the game might have been mych different. In any case, the Rockets won by 11 points, and Hakeem's teammates outscored Shaq's from the line, by a 28-9 margin.

Game three. More of the same. Houston wins 106-103...and Hakeem's teammates outscore Shaq's from the line by a 18-13 margin. BTW, Hakeem outscored Shaq, 31-28, but he went 14-30 from the field, while Shaq went 11-17. Pretty much the way of the entire series. Hakeem scored 4.8 ppg more in the seties, but took over 10 more FGAs per game to do so.

Game four. More of the same. Hakeem's teammates outscore Shaq's from the line by an 18-8 margin...in a 12 point win. This is the ONLY game in the series in which Hakeem outplayed Shaq.

And, don't forget that this was a 22 year old Shaq, playing against a Hakeem in his his absolute prime. Oh, and BTW, the Hakeem fans will never mention that a 26 year old Shaq just obliterated a 36 year old Hakeem a couple of years later in yet just another first round exit for Hakeem.
So basically, hakeems teammates carried him. Or does being carried only apply to certain players?

[The Iron Fist]

Hakeem didn't even "outplay" Shaq. I sat through and watched all of their possessions against one another. Hakeem was VERY ineffective when matched up against Shaq. He required TONS of help to defend him, he straight up couldn't handle Shaq at all and this guy is considered the top defensive center ever?

41% FG vs Shaq and 44 TS% vs him. That is Allen Iverson efficiency right there for a CENTER.

Hakeem exploited the matchup when Shaq wasn't on him. Good for him, but it just shows he couldn't handle Shaq straight up on either end of the court.



Good info all around. :D Surprised not to see bias since it says your from Houston.

Had no idea about that pay per view thing.you were three years old in pampers with Shaq shoes on. Stfu.

[magic chiongson]

nick anderson & dennis scott happened

[Bigsmoke]

stats dont tell you the whole story

[The Iron Fist]

nick anderson & dennis scott happened
That's shaqs fault. He didn't make them better.

[millwad]

Hakeem's teammates just ANNIHILATED Shaq's. Shaq averaged 6.3 apg in that series, and if his brick-laying teammates could have hit anything remotely close to a normal percentage, it would have been considerably higher.


I've already made you look like a fool when discussing this series, I will do so again if you continue to write posts that are full of nonsense. First of all, Shaq had a great assist average in this series which Hakeem had as well.

The problem for Shaq was that he was extremely turnover prone, he averaged more than 5 turnovers per game which is the highest turnover average for any center in NBA history. Given it's you I am not surprised that you try to hide that fact. And it's funny, when Wilt got outscored with 23 points per game in the '72 playoffs Wilt had teammates that absolutely destroyed Kareem's but some how you never cared to mention that. You only say that Kareem got the worst beating of his life.

Bottom line, you're a clown.




Hakeem's TEAMMATES outshot Shaq's TEAMMATES from the field by a .467 to .434 margin. And it was even worse from the arc... .402 to .347.


Making 43% of the shots compared to 46% is not a big difference at all, laughable that you actually try to use this as an attempt to raise Hakeem's teammates to the sky. And it's not weird that the Rockets made more 3's, the Rockets players had wide open looks through-out the series. The former CBA player and usually called scrub, Mario Elie, averaged 16 points per game in that series because he was wide open all series long, all freaking series long. They focused too much on Olajuwon.




Then, think about this...

Take Shaq and Hakeem's FT's MADE out of the equation (and BTW, Shaq MADE more...(24-18)...and Hakeem's teammates outscored Shaq's by a 78-37 margin in that series...or 41 points.



Ehm, Shaq made 57% of his FT-attempts compared to Olajuwon's 67% and fouling Shaq is a much better option when he's wide open compared to Olajuwon because unlike Shaq, Olajuwon could make FT's.

And again, why are you so obsessed with the fact that Hakeem's teammates outscored Shaq's? Kareem's teammates got badly outscored by Wilt's in the '72 playoffs, much worse than Shaq's in this series but when it's about Wilt you couldn't give a rats ass.




Now, in game one, Hakeem's Rockets beat Shaq's Magic, 120-118. We all know that Nick Anderson missed four straight FTs in the last 10 secs, but to add to that, take away Shaq's and Hakeem's made FTs, and the Hakeem's teammates outscored Shaq's by a 13-7 margin from the line.



Don't try to break down the games, please. I already made you look like a clown because we know you actually haven't seen the series yet.

And what the hell are you talking about now, this nonsense doesn't make sense. And the Magic lost by 2 points, Shaq only made 4 out of 10 FT's in that game and everyone gives the edge to Shaq in that game.




How about game two? First of all, I get a kick out of those that claim that Hakeem outplayed Shaq in the first half, and that Shaq's 23 second half points were meaningless. the FACT was, Hakeem was a beaten dog in the second half. He was physically beaten to a pulp. Furthermore, had Shaq not gotten into some questionable foul trouble in the first half, the game might have been mych different. In any case, the Rockets won by 11 points, and Hakeem's teammates outscored Shaq's from the line, by a 28-9 margin.


Hakeem wasn't a beaten dog, you clown, your mother is a dog.

You only show that you never saw the series. Olajuwon absolutely destroyed the Magic in the first half and gave the Rockets a huge lead and while Shaq had a bad first half and scored in the second half while his team was down big time and they never even were close to winning it.




Game three. More of the same. Houston wins 106-103...and Hakeem's teammates outscore Shaq's from the line by a 18-13 margin. BTW, Hakeem outscored Shaq, 31-28, but he went 14-30 from the field, while Shaq went 11-17. Pretty much the way of the entire series. Hakeem scored 4.8 ppg more in the seties, but took over 10 more FGAs per game to do so.


What is this nonsense about outscoring a team from the FT-line?

In Game 3:

Shaq had 3 more turnovers compared to Olajuwon
Shaq only made 54% of his FT's
Shaq was outrebounded by 4 rebounds by Olajuwon and Olajuwon outassisted him as well




Game four. More of the same. Hakeem's teammates outscore Shaq's from the line by an 18-8 margin...in a 12 point win. This is the ONLY game in the series in which Hakeem outplayed Shaq.


Oh, buhu.

In game 4:
Olajuwon scored 35 points compared to Shaq's 25
Olajuwon 15 rebounds compared to Shaq's 12
Olajuwon had 6 assists compared to Shaq's 3
Olajuwon had 3 steals compared to Shaq's 0
Olajuwon had 4 turnovers compared to Shaq's massive number of 6 turnovers




And, don't forget that this was a 22 year old Shaq, playing against a Hakeem in his his absolute prime. Oh, and BTW, the Hakeem fans will never mention that a 26 year old Shaq just obliterated a 36 year old Hakeem a couple of years later in yet just another first round exit for Hakeem.

You're not only stupid, you don't know math either. Shaq was 23 years old and age was never an excuse when Olajuwon lost in the finals as a 23 year old against Boston.

And in '95 Shaq was much closer to his prime compared to what the busted up and old Olajuwon was as a 36 year old.. :facepalm

And last but not least, don't try to belittle Shaq by acting like he was some baby. Shaq had one of his best years as a pro that year and ended 2nd in the MVP voting, 1 in scoring, 1 in FG's and 2 in rebounds.

[TonyMontana]

What watching the games tells us and summary of the thread findings

-Hakeem took advantage of secondary defenders like Horace Grant to get his points.
-Hakeem had 41% shooting and 48 TS% when being defended by Shaq. He was INEFFECTIVE vs Shaq.
-Couldnt stop Shaq in the post as Shaq shot 58% shooting against Hakeem while being doubled 67% of the time.

TL/DR: Matched up against one another Shaq is by far the superior player.

People like to talk shit about Shaq on defense because he was overweight later in his career and had a clear weakness to the pick and roll, but Shaq is one of if not the best post defenders in NBA History. 7'1, 7'8 wingspan, and as strong as a herd of ox. You can't back him down. The only way to beat Shaq is to hope he gets in foul trouble so you can exploit the backups. :oldlol:

Cleveland picked him up even when he was 40 years old just to handle Dwight who raped them the year before..

[LAZERUSS]

Hakeem's TEAMMATES, collectively, had a considerably higher TS% in that series, than Hakeem, himself. So, those that favor this stat, had better prepared to explain that. Looks to me like Houston won that series despite Hakeem.

Meanwhile, Shaq's TS% in that Finals was far greater than what his teammates gave him.

Hakeem shot 55-115 from the field, 1-1 from the arc, and 18-26 from the line.
His teammates shot 70-136 from 2pt range, 36-91 from the arc, and 77-97 from the line.

Shaq shot 44-74 from the field, and 24-42 from the line.
His teammates shot 78-156 from 2 pt range, 41-118 from the arc, and 37-47 from the line.

Using a TRUE TS%, Hakeem shot .508. His teammates collectively shot .589.

Shaq shot a TRUE TS% of .589. His teammates shot a collective .533.

[Stringer Bell]

Shaq did better in the postseason against Hakeem than Ewing did in the 94' Finals, and Robinson in the 95' WC Finals. Ewing had a lot of blocks but shot horribly.

Shaq's team fared the worst although he personally performed the best of the elite centers that faced Hakeem in the postseason during the repeat.

[Stringer Bell]

I was reading an old SI article and back then, they were on point. Over time, the myth of Hakeem dominating Shaq was grown. Hakeem badly outplayed Ewing in the 94' Finals, and took D-Rob to school in the 95 WCF, but not Shaq.

http://www.si.com/vault/1995/06/19/204050/high-and-mighty-the-rampaging-rockets-stunned-the-misfiring-magic-and-neared-another-nba-title


Olajuwon didn't put up those kinds of numbers, but given his teammates' contributions, he didn't have to. His much-anticipated confrontation with O'Neal lived up to its billing, with both centers playing so well -- Olajuwon had the scoring edge,averaging 32.0 points over the first three games to O'Neal's 29.0,while Shaq had the rebounding advantage, 12.7 to 10.3 -- that they canceled each other out. O'Neal, with the help of his teammates,kept Olajuwon from repeating the kind of transcendent performances he had delivered earlier in the playoffs. Instead of allowing him the long series of fakes and spins that leave defenders looking foolish, the Magic limited Olajuwon to one or two moves before he either shot or passed the ball. The problem was that sometimes one or two moves were all he needed.

While O'Neal was dealing with Olajuwon's grace, the Dream was combating Shaq's power. O'Neal was often able to bull his way so close to the basket that he was impossible to stop once he received the ball. ``Playing Shaq is a serious workout,'' Olajuwon said after Game 2. ``I'm going home and going to bed.''

But as intriguing as the battle of centers was, it was the other matchups that swung the series in Houston's favor. O'Neal and Hardaway had to carry the Magic offensively because forward Dennis Scott's jumper deserted him (he shot .258, including 5 for 23 from three-point range, through the first three games) and guard Nick Anderson's confidence seemed to do the same. Anderson became the series' tragic figure when, with Orlando ahead 110-107 in the closing seconds of regulation in Game 1, he missed four straight free throws, any one of which would have surely sealed the win for the Magic.

Anderson vowed that he would not be affected by the misses --``I've seen tragedies,'' he said, alluding to his youth in inner-city Chicago, ``and missing free throws is not a tragedy.''But in the next two games he looked nothing like the player who had gotten the better of two superstars, the Chicago Bulls'Michael Jordan and the Indiana Pacers' Reggie Miller, in earlier series. In Games 2 and 3 Anderson shot a combined 8 for 27.

``The difference is, we're getting different people helping out Hakeem and Clyde every game,'' Cassell said after Game 3. ``Shaq and Penny are carrying it all alone.''

[stalkerforlife]

OP must be a Branvestite...relies on box scores to form his opinion.

[chocolatethunder]

I'm 44, a Hakeem fan and always hated Shaq. Loved Houston and wanted them to win and was very glad that they did win. That being said, it is a myth that Hakeem owned Shaq in this series. I felt like they played pretty even and that Shaq showed up big time, especially for being so young. His team lost but I mean damn, Nick Anderson really kinda made it difficult for them to be able to win. Both Hakeem and Shaq played great and I feel lucky to have been able to see the series.

[StephHamann]

Just watch the games bra:

game 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdXDO_xsZi4

game 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xl26XTrf6k

game 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHgO71_X16E

game 4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWCh_gCziSs

[Euroleague]

http://www.warriorsworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Hakeem-Olajuwon.jpg

Hakeem:
32.8 PPG
11.5 RPG
6.5 APG
48.3 FG%
2.0 BPG

Shaq
28.0 PPG
12.5 RPG
6.3 APG
59.5 FG%
2.5 BPG

How is this owned? Hakeem put up some great numbers, but so did Shaq. Neither could stop the other. Hakeem put up more points, but he took 116 shots compared to Shaqs 74 in the series. 48% for a center, let alone the guy with the "best low post moves in NBA History" reputation is not very ****ing good.

While Shaq nearly shot 60% from the field almost equaling his scoring. I'd take Shaqs numbers over Olajuwon any day.

Cool note: Very high assist numbers for centers. I'm going to have to try and look these games up on youtube sometime this week.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/PUEQFmaPb3vZ6/200.gif