I don't understand how Lebron is a "ring chaser"

[Connor B]

I mean I get what the terms means, but I don't understand what about him joining Miami in basketball terms should take away from his legacy. Ignore all the ridiculous Decision and welcoming party and "not one, not two", all the media crap, and you are left with this: superstar Lebron, superstar Wade, and all-star Bosh and role players in 2010-2011. How is this any different from superstar Jordan, superstar Pippen, and all-star Dennis Rodman in 96? Or superstar Shaq, superstar Kobe, and all-star (kinda, not really) Glen Rice in 2000? Miami isn't really stacked when you compare them to other great teams.

Let me put it this way: if Lebron stays in Cleveland, they don't get Kyrie, and chances are, they are still a good but not championship team. He may have never won a ring. No one would have alone like that. Jordan didn't, Kobe hasn't, no one. So let's say he finishes his career in Cleveland and wins 0 rings...is his legacy better than it is now with 2? Of course not. But people act like they would have him higher in terms of an all-time list if he hadn't come to Miami. Damned if he came, damned if he didn't.

Where should he have gone? Chicago? As if Derrick Rose, Luol Deng, Boozer, and Noah aren't already a good team? Is that team stacked? How is 2010 -11 Miami better than 2010-11 Chicago if Lebron goes Chicago?

I just feel anyone who takes away from Lebron's legacy because it was "given, not earned" is just a bit ignorant of the situation. If you look at those 2 championships, he was bar none the MVP. It isn't like he rode any cottails, especially not this year. Ray Allen made a historic three, but Lebron also had 16 in the fourth and basically won game 7 on a jumper and 38 points. 25/11/7 for the 2013 finals. That's not someone who deserves to be called top 15 of all time when you consider all the other accolades?

I just want to understand the logic of negging Lebron for having come to Miami. If Wade had come to Cleveland would anyone be saying anything? I agree, Jordan would have never left to play against his biggest rivals. But he also got Pippen and later Rodman. Lebron never had any great second options. Why stay?

Don't troll. I want a serious answers. Convince me why I shouldn't have Lebron in my top 10-15

[jimmy77x]

NB4 10+ page thread of Lebron Stans defending their king.

[MastaKilla]

Lol because Jordan didn't leave his team to go join former FMVP pippens team

[SilkkTheShocker]

Do ring chasers usually carry a team for a whole postseason. You know, like just a few months ago? Or go a whole postseason without having one bad game? You know, like in 2012.

Wade averaged 15ppg in the postseason.

Bosh averaged 12ppg and got manhandled the last two rounds.

I mean there was literally a point they were calling the Heat the Miami Cavaliers. Reggie Miller even said during a live broadcast. And LeBron James, who actually played for those terrible Cavalier teams, even compared his teammates to the likes of Mo Williams, Eric Snow, etc.

[I.Malcolm]

How is LeBron ring chasing? He creates ring worthy teams.

[Mr Exlax]

You can't ring chase if you lead your team in that many categories. It's not possible. He basically upgraded his supporting cast on his own since they couldn't do it in Cleveland.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Do ring chasers usually carry a team for a whole postseason. You know, like just a few months ago? Or go a whole postseason without having one bad game? You know, like in 2012.

Wade averaged 15ppg in the postseason.

Bosh averaged 12ppg and got manhandled the last two rounds.

I mean there was literally a point they were calling the Heat the Miami Cavaliers. Reggie Miller even said during a live broadcast. And LeBron James, who actually played for those terrible Cavalier teams, even compared his teamma

tes to the likes of Mo Williams, Eric Snow, etc.

Allen iverson led a team to the finals with Eric Snow as his 3rd best player and won a game in the finals against the 3 peat Lakers.

That's one more game than Lebron ever won in the finals before he got a FMVP and an 8x allstar to play alongside him.

So by your logic Iverson> Lebron for doing more with less.

[Connor B]

Allen iverson led a team to the finals with Eric Snow as his 3rd best player and won a game in the finals against the 3 peat Lakers.

That's one more game than Lebron ever won in the finals before he got a FMVP and an 8x allstar to play alongside him.

So by your logic Iverson> Lebron for doing more with less.

......except Iverson didn't win a ring...

[TheMarkMadsen]

......except Iverson didn't win a ring...


And Lebron didn't win a single game in the finals until he was playing with a FMVP and 8x all star

[SilkkTheShocker]

Allen iverson led a team to the finals with Eric Snow as his 3rd best player and won a game in the finals against the 3 peat Lakers.

That's one more game than Lebron ever won in the finals before he got a FMVP and an 8x allstar to play alongside him.

So by your logic Iverson> Lebron for doing more with less.

Actually the 3rd best player was Aaron McKie who was the 6th man of the year in 01. And are you comparing 76ers Snow to Cavaliers' Snow? Next time you try to make a point, try to actually have a point. :oldlol:

[Connor B]

And Lebron didn't win a single game in the finals until he was playing with a FMVP and 8x all star

You really think the 07 Cavs were comparable to the 01 76ers?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Actually the 3rd best player was Aaron McKie who was the 6th man of the year in 01. And are you comparing 76ers Snow to Cavaliers' Snow? Next time you try to make a point, try to actually have a point. :oldlol:

That's all you have? Your big comeback is that it was the almighty Arron McKie who Iverson had as his running mate?

[9erempiree]

Here's the biggest reason why Lebron is a ring chaser......

Lebron is easily a $30 million dollar man like Kobe. He left a team that went to the Finals to join 2 other superstars on a loaded team. He took less money to join a team. He basically left 15 million dollars on the table to get him a ring.

Nobody leaves 15 million dollars to get them an easy ring.

[Connor B]

That's all you have? Your big comeback is that it was the almighty Arron McKie who Iverson had as his running mate?

You also compared 2007 Eric Snow to 2001 Eric Snow...

[SilkkTheShocker]

You really think the 07 Cavs were comparable to the 01 76ers?

This. The Cavs had no one as good of a 2nd option as DPOY Mutombo and 6th man McKie. Hell even George Lynch would have been better than guys like Pavlovic :oldlol:

[Connor B]

Here's the biggest reason why Lebron is a ring chaser......

Lebron is easily a $30 million dollar man like Kobe. He left a team that went to the Finals to join 2 other superstars on a loaded team. He took less money to join a team. He basically left 15 million dollars on the table to get him a ring.

Nobody leaves 15 million dollars to get them an easy ring.

So...I feel like in this case being a ring chaser is a good thing. If Lebron is willing to take a huge pay cut...isn't that his business?

[SilkkTheShocker]

That's all you have? Your big comeback is that it was the almighty Arron McKie who Iverson had as his running mate?

What do you mean comeback? I corrected you for making a false statement. McKie was the 3rd best player on that team. You are trying to argue on false statements that you made. Do you realize how idiotic you look right?

[9erempiree]

So...I feel like in this case being a ring chaser is a good thing. If Lebron is willing to take a huge pay cut...isn't that his business?

Lebron took the route of ring chasing. An example: Player A takes less money, league minimum/MLE, and goes to another team to win a ring.

In Lebron's case, he gave up his max and signed a contract that's usually given to overpaid bums, so he can join Wade and Bosh. Lebron is far from a bum but his behavior is very similar to Payton and Malone for the Lakers.

[TheMarkMadsen]

What do you mean comeback? I corrected you for making a false statement. McKie was the 3rd best player on that team. You are trying to argue on false statements that you made. Do you realize how idiotic you look right?

So when you said Lebron was comparing his Miami teammates to what he had in cleavand and you listed Eric snow, a guy who played 12 minutes a game durin that finals run, that was just you being a dumbass?

Beside you make my point for me, Arron McKie was iversons 2nd best scorer, with Arron McKie averaging 15 ppg (the most scoring help iverson had with the 76ers) iverson was able to lead a team to the finals and win a game against a dynasty..

Lebron never won a single game in the finals until he had a FMVP on his team, as well as a 8x allstar big man..

[PJR]

So...I feel like in this case being a ring chaser is a good thing. If Lebron is willing to take a huge pay cut...isn't that his business?

Basically. If you're not chasing the ring, then what are you doing? *shrugs*.

We use to lambast guys who only chased the most money. Now we're going at the guys who are willing to leave a decent coin on the table, in order to be apart of a potentially great team?

The negative connation that some try to attach to LeBron's move to Miami was always so f*cking asinine. :oldlol:

[2010splash]

If your 2nd option put up 16/5/5 and your 3rd option put up 12/7 on poor efficiency, you carried a heavier load than just about anybody to ever win a title.

[Young X]

:oldlol:

Lebron is the definition of a ring chaser.

If Lebron's not a ring chaser... then there's no such thing as a ring chaser.

[PickernRoller]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Joining two other all-stars, one of them a superstar to win rings isn't ring chasing? Let me guess, they colluded for the love of the game.

OP's a pathetic phagg0t. Next.

[secund2nun]

Lol because Jordan didn't leave his team to go join former FMVP pippens team

What the F does Jordan matter. The world does not revolve around him.

Jordan had a good enough team to win 55 games and reach game 7 of the ECSF (should have won if not for bad call) the very next season after he first retired. Lebron was on a team that won 18 games the season after he left. Jordan did not have to leave such a great cast and great head coach.

Wade had not won a single playoff series since Shaq, and that was Wade's prime. Lebron has willed Miami to the last 2 titles.

[Sarcastic]

:lol @ Mutombo as the 2nd option.

[TheReal Kendall]

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/586/399/b23.gif

[MastaKilla]

What the F does Jordan matter. The world does not revolve around him.

Jordan had a good enough team to win 55 games and reach game 7 of the ECSF (should have won if not for bad call) the very next season after he first retired. Lebron was on a team that won 18 games the season after he left. Jordan did not have to leave such a great cast and great head coach.

Wade had not won a single playoff series since Shaq, and that was Wade's prime. Lebron has willed Miami to the last 2 titles.

Why does Jordan matter? Maybe because the OP brought him up in the first paragraph :applause:

Insecure groupie calm down

[SilkkTheShocker]

:lol @ Mutombo as the 2nd option.

Mutombo averaged like .6 less points than McKie in the playoffs. Don't tell me you're an Iverson fan now also? You love yourself some losers :oldlol:

[secund2nun]

Why does Jordan matter? Maybe because the OP brought him up in the first paragraph :applause:

Insecure groupie calm down

There is nothing insecure about me. Back to back titles and it's just getting started. The haters are insecure and scared.

We all know when Lebron left Cleveland the haters started using the idiotic "he had to leave Cleveland" argument, which every star in history would have had to leave for a title because the supporting cast was simply not good enough for a title.

[Legends66NBA7]

Convince me why I shouldn't have Lebron in my top 10-15

This is a message board where a majority of us put down arbitrary lists. Why the hell does anybody need convincing to put any player in a specific grouping ? Just make your own list and get on with it.


Why does Jordan matter? Maybe because the OP brought him up in the first paragraph :applause:

Insecure groupie calm down

Did he really ? Probably deleted his post.

[Bandito]

I remember when LEbron singlehandledly beat the lowly Mavericks in a sweep, while he was clutch as he always is. Oh wait that didn't happen, he chocked after going to papa Wade for help and a big white man scared him in the Finals with his brilliant play!

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

LeBron is NOT really a ring chaser. Just a guy who couldn't lead his team to a NBA Championship. So he jumped ship to a team with a guy who was top 3 player at the time and brought an All-Star with him. People are mad about that, a superstar who couldn't stay with one team and the things he did and said. Like "I'll never leave Cleveland until I win a NBA title."

[Fresh Kid]

http://media.cleveland.com/startingblocks/photo/lebron-james-jim-grayjpg-942fd231d1cb539e_large.jpg]http://www.slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/71252392_display_image.jpghttp://bestplayerintheworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/chris-bosh-miami-heat-707jpgjpg-f3e0b1faf2eb0928_large.jpg

[tazb]

If the Miami Heat won in 2011 with LeBron putting those type of numbers, he would have the title ring chaser under his belt.....but they lost. He came back the next two seasons putting up monster numbers leading his team in almost all major statistics, back-to-back titles, back-to-back MVPs.

[Frozen1]

Lebron stans always pointing that bosh and wade had bad playoffs.

Well, wade was poor in the first 3 rounds, but considering how weak west was you can argue heat would get to the finals without him.

But he had a average finals, better than anything lebron gave to him in 2011.

2011 finals game 4: Miami has a chance to go to a comanding 3-1 lead, wade scores 32 on 13-20 from the field, bosh also has a great 24 point performance. But the other piece of the big three goes in complete choke mode and scores 8 points on 25% shooting.

2013 finals game 4: Miami has a chance to almost lose the nba finals, going in a 1-3 deficit against San Antonio. Wade who had been missing the whole playoffs, comes alive and leads miami to the victory with lebron on the bench, scoring 32 points and 6 steals with a huge defensive effort.

2013 finals game 6: Ray allen saves lebron with a clutch three after disastrous turnovers and dumb plays from lebron in the last minutes of the game.

See, lebron

[PickernRoller]

Wade and Bosh became playoff disappointments after playing with Lebron. Just like Mo.

There is no trend there folks....no trend at all.

[Bandito]

If the Miami Heat won in 2011 with LeBron putting those type of numbers, he would have the title ring chaser under his belt.....but they lost. He came back the next two seasons putting up monster numbers leading his team in almost all major statistics, back-to-back titles, back-to-back MVPs.
Your logic is retarded. What is the difference between winning in 2011 and 2012? Lebron himself said he came to Miami to win championships. how is that not ring chasing. :facepalm

[Frozen1]

Wade and Bosh became playoff disappointments after playing with Lebron. Just like Mo.

There is no trend there folks....no trend at all.

I'm here wondering how could wade and bosh decline so much in three years. A guy who used to average 30+ in the playoffs, and another 24-10 PF goes into mediocre 15ppg and 12ppg in the playoffs. Well it must be the age getting them.

And you can think pau gasol became the best big man in the playoffs with kobe.

[SilkkTheShocker]

[QUOTE=Frozen1]Lebron stans always pointing that bosh and wade had bad playoffs.

Well, wade was poor in the first 3 rounds, but considering how weak west was you can argue heat would get to the finals without him.

But he had a average finals, better than anything lebron gave to him in 2011.

2011 finals game 4: Miami has a chance to go to a comanding 3-1 lead, wade scores 32 on 13-20 from the field, bosh also has a great 24 point performance. But the other piece of the big three goes in complete choke mode and scores 8 points on 25% shooting.

2013 finals game 4: Miami has a chance to almost lose the nba finals, going in a 1-3 deficit against San Antonio. Wade who had been missing the whole playoffs, comes alive and leads miami to the victory with lebron on the bench, scoring 32 points and 6 steals with a huge defensive effort.

2013 finals game 6: Ray allen saves lebron with a clutch three after disastrous turnovers and dumb plays from lebron in the last minutes of the game.

See, lebron

[Frozen1]

So what you're trying to say is that you're a butthurt little b.itch :oldlol:

Get mad :oldlol:

When lebron stans do not have any argument left for his boy, they come with the "Are u mad?" BS.

Typical lebron stan behavior.

[Bandito]

When lebron stans do not have any argument left for his boy, they come with the "Are u mad?" BS.

Typical lebron stan behavior.
That remind me of Kobe stans back in 2010...how times changes...

[Young X]

What happened after he joined Miami doesn't matter you idiots. :oldlol:

So you mean to tell me, Karl Malone in 2003 wasn't ring chasing?

Gary Payton in 2006 wasn't ring chasing?

Juwan Howard right now isn't ring chasing? (don't know all the details)

That's what makes Lebron joining Miami so pathetic from a competitive standpoint - those guys joined stacked teams when they were old, out of their prime. Lebron on the other hand left b2b 60 win teams (best record in the league twice) to join the 2nd best player in the league and an all star PF in his PRIME (:oldlol:) to gain a major edge over the competition ("It's gon be easy" - remember that?).

That's smart but it's the definition of ring chasing.

[Fresh Kid]

When lebron stans do not have any argument left for his boy, they come with the "Are u mad?" BS.

Typical lebron stan behavior.
Yes its straight up sick and sad. I hope they get professional help for that matter.

[pauk]

I mean I get what the terms means, but I don't understand what about him joining Miami in basketball terms should take away from his legacy. Ignore all the ridiculous Decision and welcoming party and "not one, not two", all the media crap, and you are left with this: superstar Lebron, superstar Wade, and all-star Bosh and role players in 2010-2011. How is this any different from superstar Jordan, superstar Pippen, and all-star Dennis Rodman in 96? Or superstar Shaq, superstar Kobe, and all-star (kinda, not really) Glen Rice in 2000? Miami isn't really stacked when you compare them to other great teams.

Let me put it this way: if Lebron stays in Cleveland, they don't get Kyrie, and chances are, they are still a good but not championship team. He may have never won a ring. No one would have alone like that. Jordan didn't, Kobe hasn't, no one. So let's say he finishes his career in Cleveland and wins 0 rings...is his legacy better than it is now with 2? Of course not. But people act like they would have him higher in terms of an all-time list if he hadn't come to Miami. Damned if he came, damned if he didn't.

Where should he have gone? Chicago? As if Derrick Rose, Luol Deng, Boozer, and Noah aren't already a good team? Is that team stacked? How is 2010 -11 Miami better than 2010-11 Chicago if Lebron goes Chicago?

I just feel anyone who takes away from Lebron's legacy because it was "given, not earned" is just a bit ignorant of the situation. If you look at those 2 championships, he was bar none the MVP. It isn't like he rode any cottails, especially not this year. Ray Allen made a historic three, but Lebron also had 16 in the fourth and basically won game 7 on a jumper and 38 points. 25/11/7 for the 2013 finals. That's not someone who deserves to be called top 15 of all time when you consider all the other accolades?

I just want to understand the logic of negging Lebron for having come to Miami. If Wade had come to Cleveland would anyone be saying anything? I agree, Jordan would have never left to play against his biggest rivals. But he also got Pippen and later Rodman. Lebron never had any great second options. Why stay?

Don't troll. I want a serious answers. Convince me why I shouldn't have Lebron in my top 10-15

I can instead convince why he is more like Top 8-10.... he doesnt belong anywhere behind 10....

[LosScandalous]

LeShortcut will play where ever it's easy. During next year's free agency whereever that will be, he will play. He's the epitome of a ring chaser.

[GrapeApe]

The object is to win championships, not "who can win championships with the worst supporting cast". I don't know when that whole mindset started and it's incredibly stupid.

[2010splash]

Kobe is a bigger ring chaser than LeBron. Kobe needed the help of a 30/13/3 GOAT center to win 3 titles.

Then he needed the greatest frontcourt in the league again in 2009 and 2010 to win titles. He has had MORE help than LeBron, even if he didn't leave his original team to join a new one.

Think about it. Kobe has won several titles shooting around 40% in an entire Finals series, even closing out a Finals with a 6/24 effort. If you win with efforts like this, it means you have an insane amount of help. Definitely more than a guy who needs to lead his team in virtually every statistical category for his team to win.

[Donkey4trading]

Kobe is a bigger ring chaser than LeBron. Kobe needed the help of a 30/13/3 GOAT center to win 3 titles.

Then he needed the greatest frontcourt in the league again in 2009 and 2010 to win titles. He has had MORE help than LeBron, even if he didn't leave his original team to join a new one.

Think about it. Kobe has won several titles shooting around 40% in an entire Finals series, even closing out a Finals with a 6/24 effort. If you win with efforts like this, it means you have an insane amount of help. Definitely more than a guy who needs to lead his team in virtually every statistical category for his team to win.


How many rings does Lebron have without a FMVP & 8x all star big man?

[2010splash]

How many rings does Lebron have without a FMVP & 8x all star big man?
The sh-t are you talking about? LeBron just got done winning it all with a 16/5/5 and 12/7 #2 and #3 option.

Kobe was being carried by the best player in the league at the time and then won a Finals MVP shooting 40% for the series (and 6/24 in Game 7). I'll leave it to the folks with common sense to tell me who needed more help.

[Donkey4trading]

The sh-t are you talking about? LeBron just got done winning it all with a 16/5/5 and 12/7 #2 and #3 option.

Kobe was being carried by the best player in the league at the time and then won a Finals MVP shooting 40% for the series (and 6/24 in Game 7). I'll leave it to the folks with common sense to tell me who needed more help.

So wait you didn't answer my question?

How many rings does Lebron have without a FMVP & an 8x all star big man.

Did Dwade & Chris Bosh make the all star team this year? Does Lebron always need 2 all stars to win a title or can he Pull in rings with 1 all star alongside him like the MJ, Kobe & Tim Duncan's of the world?

[GrapeApe]

So wait you didn't answer my question?

How many rings does Lebron have without a FMVP & an 8x all star big man.

Did Dwade & Chris Bosh make the all star team this year? Does Lebron always need 2 all stars to win a title or can he Pull in rings with 1 all star alongside him like the MJ, Kobe & Tim Duncan's of the world?

So what do you want LeBron to do? Demand that Wade or Bosh be traded for scrubs? Should he intentionally try to make things difficult to silence the haters? LeBron winning with other great players in no way diminishes his own greatness.

[Donkey4trading]

So what do you want LeBron to do? Demand that Wade or Bosh be traded for scrubs? Should he intentionally try to make things difficult to silence the haters? LeBron winning with other great players in no way diminishes his own greatness.

:roll: then maybe you and your group of Stan's should stop trying to diminish Kobes 3 rings if this is how you feel when the same stupid argument is turned around on you

[GrapeApe]

:roll: then maybe you and your group of Stan's should stop trying to diminish Kobes 3 rings if this is how you feel when the same stupid argument is turned around on you

I'm no stan and I don't diminish Kobe's rings. I think the "who won with the least help/most help" argument IS stupid.

[Simple Jack]

It's not ring chasing if YOU'RE the reason the team is in the position to win the ring.

The way Bosh and Wade played; and where they are at this point in their career; they aren't a title team. The team did not become the favorites to win the title until Bron joined the team.

Ring chasing is joining an already established team that is in a position to win rings without you with a roster that has already proven it could do so; not one that has huge question marks and only 2 players remaining from their previous title teams.

[ohdilly]

"Let me just tell you this," Barkley said. "Mike and I are in 100 percent agreement on this. If you're the two-time defending NBA MVP, you don't leave anywhere. They come to you. That's ridiculous.


"I like LeBron. He's a great player. But I don't think in the history of sports you can find a two-time defending MVP leaving to go play with other people."


A Western Conference general manager echoed the feeling to SI.com, saying that James' actions have caused many people to "feel like the sanctity of greatness is tarnished."

"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry [Bird], called up Magic [Johnson] and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'" Jordan said. "But that's ... things are different. I can't say that's a bad thing. It's an opportunity these kids have today. In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."

Hall of Famer and former NBA star Charles Barkley also recently weighed in on James' decision, saying he was "disturbed" because he believed it was "planned all along."

[retaxis]

[QUOTE=ohdilly]"Let me just tell you this," Barkley said. "Mike and I are in 100 percent agreement on this. If you're the two-time defending NBA MVP, you don't leave anywhere. They come to you. That's ridiculous.


"I like LeBron. He's a great player. But I don't think in the history of sports you can find a two-time defending MVP leaving to go play with other people."


A Western Conference general manager echoed the feeling to SI.com, saying that James' actions have caused many people to "feel like the sanctity of greatness is tarnished."

"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry [Bird], called up Magic [Johnson] and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'" Jordan said. "But that's ... things are different. I can't say that's a bad thing. It's an opportunity these kids have today. In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."

Hall of Famer and former NBA star Charles Barkley also recently weighed in on James' decision, saying he was "disturbed" because he believed it was "planned all along."

[ohdilly]

If Lebron was in a big market team like Lakers with an owner who was willing to spend big money to acquire free agents it would be a different story. Imagine If Kobe was drafted in the Cavs and Lebron was drafted in the Lakers. 80% of whether a team wins a championship is based on the owner and the team. Its the owner and the market that builds the team not the player.

True to an extent. But the 3 players themselves seems like they colluded as evidenced by taking less money to play together. Pay Riley gave them the means to do so but it was the player's decision via free agency to pick where to sign. Miami did an excellent job of filling in the roster also with integral role players. But the topic here is whether or not LeBron "ring chased" or not. Call it circumstantial but cleveland did make plenty of moves they were just unable to land a perineal all star to play alongside LBJ. If bosh signed with CLE at the time now that would be a different story.

[r15mohd]

It's not ring chasing if YOU'RE the reason the team is in the position to win the ring.

The way Bosh and Wade played; and where they are at this point in their career; they aren't a title team. The team did not become the favorites to win the title until Bron joined the team.

Ring chasing is joining an already established team that is in a position to win rings without you with a roster that has already proven it could do so; not one that has huge question marks and only 2 players remaining from their previous title teams.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[2010splash]

:roll: then maybe you and your group of Stan's should stop trying to diminish Kobes 3 rings if this is how you feel when the same stupid argument is turned around on you
Kobe stans for whatever reason are completely incapable of using common sense and therefore resort to the simplistic "Wade and Bosh is da all-starz!!!!" argument.

The difference with Kobe's first 3 rings is that his teammate was averaging 30/15 in the playoffs and 38/17 or 36/12 in the Finals. Wade and Bosh used to be superstars but played nothing like it this postseason. 16/5/5 from a #2 option is not even all-star level. Neither is 12/7.

Kobe needs waaaay more help than LeBron to win. Let's see Kobe win titles with a frontline that can't rebound or a #2 option who averaged 16/5/5 on sub 50 TS%.

[Bandito]

Kobe is a bigger ring chaser than LeBron. Kobe needed the help of a 30/13/3 GOAT center to win 3 titles.

Then he needed the greatest frontcourt in the league again in 2009 and 2010 to win titles. He has had MORE help than LeBron, even if he didn't leave his original team to join a new one.

Think about it. Kobe has won several titles shooting around 40% in an entire Finals series, even closing out a Finals with a 6/24 effort. If you win with efforts like this, it means you have an insane amount of help. Definitely more than a guy who needs to lead his team in virtually every statistical category for his team to win.
The definition of ring chasing is leaving your team for the whole purpose of cashing a ring. Kobe never did leave his team to ring chase, fact! He even said he came to Miami to win a championship.

[r15mohd]

The definition of ring chasing is leaving your team for the whole purpose of cashing a ring. Kobe never did leave his team to ring chase, fact! He even said he came to Miami to win a championship.

he also refused to play for a team that, he felt, would leave him dead end (Charlotte)...as well as demand a trade when -ish went south :facepalm what does that tell you about his dedication? it's no different with him than what you make to be with Lebron when you all say, "he chose the easy route"

as far as your interpretation of ring chasing, please refer to this:


Originally Posted by Simple Jack
It's not ring chasing if YOU'RE the reason the team is in the position to win the ring.

The way Bosh and Wade played; and where they are at this point in their career; they aren't a title team. The team did not become the favorites to win the title until Bron joined the team.

Ring chasing is joining an already established team that is in a position to win rings without you with a roster that has already proven it could do so; not one that has huge question marks and only 2 players remaining from their previous title teams.

[poido123]

It's not ring chasing if YOU'RE the reason the team is in the position to win the ring.

The way Bosh and Wade played; and where they are at this point in their career; they aren't a title team. The team did not become the favorites to win the title until Bron joined the team.

Ring chasing is joining an already established team that is in a position to win rings without you with a roster that has already proven it could do so; not one that has huge question marks and only 2 players remaining from their previous title teams.

There was no question in people's minds that when Lebron, Wade and Bosh joined together that they instantly were going to become a dynasty or at least be winning a title or two for the years ahead. Back when it happened, fans were already declaring them unstoppable. Now, your point is valid in MOST situations when it comes to ring chasing, but in this case, it is definately ring chasing in a different sense...Lebron KNEW he was creating for himself a team that would at least win one title.

[Bandito]

he also refused to play for a team that, he felt, would leave him dead end (Charlotte)...as well as demand a trade when -ish went south :facepalm what does that tell you about his dedication? it's no different with him than what you make to be with Lebron when you all say, "he chose the easy route"

as far as your interpretation of ring chasing, please refer to this:
But in the end he didn't do so, and he pressure the FO enough to make the team better in the end.

Also depending on how you view it that definition could be true. BUT it doesn't apply to this case because Lebron made a plan with Bosh to go to Bosh's team to do that, something that happened for this first time in the NBA as there hasn't been a case of 3 top 10 all stars planning to join the same team.

One thing is leaving your team and making let's say a good Clippers team a contender overnight because you're there, and planning for 3 top 10 players to join the same crappy team, making them contenders overnight is there? There's nothing wrong with ring chasing anyways.

[r15mohd]

There was no question in people's minds that when Lebron, Wade and Bosh joined together that they instantly were going to become a dynasty or at least be winning a title or two for the years ahead. .

same thing was said about Boston with PP, Ray and Garnett when they teamed up...what about Karl and GP in 2004...Barkley going to the Rockets? exactly the same comments when they "ring-chased" (in this instance the latter 2 really did)


Back when it happened, fans were already declaring them unstoppable. Now, your point is valid in MOST situations when it comes to ring chasing, but in this case, it is definately ring chasing in a different sense...Lebron KNEW he was creating for himself a team that would at least win one title

just as Kobe KNEW if the Lakers's didnt make moves, he was leaving...just as Shaq KNEW the Magic couldn't win a title so he went to LA...just as MJ KNEW that re-signing with the Bulls gave him the best chance at title(s) again. Players will ALWAYS do what's in their best interest.

ring chasing is what Ray Allen did with Miami this year, what Barkley did with the Rockets, what Karl and GP did with the Lakers...that is the exact definition of ring chasing. there's NO exclusion or excepetion to the terms.

[poido123]

same thing was said about Boston with PP, Ray and Garnett when they teamed up...what about Karl and GP in 2004...Barkley going to the Rockets? exactly the same comments when they "ring-chased" (in this instance the latter 2 really did)



just as Kobe KNEW if the Lakers's didnt make moves, he was leaving...just as Shaq KNEW the Magic couldn't win a title so he went to LA...just as MJ KNEW that re-signing with the Bulls gave him the best chance at title(s) again. Players will ALWAYS do what's in their best interest.

ring chasing is what Ray Allen did with Miami this year, what Barkley did with the Rockets, what Karl and GP did with the Lakers...that is the exact definition of ring chasing. there's NO exclusion or excepetion to the terms.

Ray Allen, Pierce and KG weren't in their prime, different story.

Same with the Barkely, Hakeem and Drexler scenario, players joining at the tail end of their careers.

And same story with GP and Malone.

What makes the Heat different is the quality of players and in their primes...

Sure, those older players were ring chasing, but it's not on the level of a player who's considered the best in the game, teaming up with other all-star players in their prime.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

He left Cleveland to win rings. By definition, that makes him a ring chaser.

[r15mohd]

But in the end he didn't do so, and he pressure the FO enough to make the team better in the end.

Also depending on how you view it that definition could be true. BUT it doesn't apply to this case because Lebron made a plan with Bosh to go to Bosh's team to do that, something that happened for this first time in the NBA as there hasn't been a case of 3 top 10 all stars planning to join the same team.

One thing is leaving your team and making let's say a good Clippers team a contender overnight because you're there, and planning for 3 top 10 players to join the same crappy team, making them contenders overnight is there? There's nothing wrong with ring chasing anyways.

and your evidence of this is? did Lebron and Bosh also convince Pat Riley to make enough cap space to sign 3 stars at max deals, how about nYk being able to do the very same thing in 2010 as well as the Nets? all assumptions with no fact...discredited :no:

the definition is what it is. all these exceptions hold no weight to Lebron's choice to sign with Miami

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

and your evidence of this is? did Lebron and Bosh also convince Pat Riley to make enough cap space to sign 3 stars at max deals, how about nYk being able to do the very same thing in 2010 as well as the Nets? all assumptions with no fact...discredited :no:

the definition is what it is. all these exceptions hold no weight to Lebron's choice to sign with Miami
The main question is who do you root for in 2015 after LeBron takes his talents Some place besides Miami.

[r15mohd]

Ray Allen, Pierce and KG weren't in their prime, different story.

Same with the Barkely, Hakeem and Drexler scenario, players joining at the tail end of their careers.

And same story with GP and Malone.

What makes the Heat different is the quality of players and in their primes...

Sure, those older players were ring chasing, but it's not on the level of a player who's considered the best in the game, teaming up with other all-star players in their prime.


the Big3 in Boston may not have been in their true prime, but they were still all-star claiber players, were they not? what's the difference between then and Miami, that Miami were more in their prime? :facepalm

and you fail to acknowledge the fact that the Miami Heat were a 1st round playoff team prior to Lebron and Bosh signing their names. what exactly was Lebron chasing with the Heat other than opportunity? isn't that what every all-star caliber player plays the game for, the opportunity to lift that trophy?

lol...the exceptions you all seem to abide by is really ridiculous

[LosScandalous]

LeShortcut James has 0 honor in his rings. He had to take the easy path.

Kobe dealt with a lot of shit late 04' to early 2008 with a rosters full of bums almost to the point he wanted to be traded but he stuck around.

He is every bit a ring chaser.

[r15mohd]

The main question is who do you root for in 2015 after LeBron takes his talents Some place besides Miami.

I've always enjoyed Lebron's game...how can you not. I've been in South FL since '92 and cheered them on since moving here but only became true Heat fan since MJ called it quits after his Wizards stint. I always favored MJ growing up, as many other people did...like Lebron to a degree, it was hard to not cheer for MJ.

However, I'm not your typical Heat fan...I'm all about the business aspect of a team. Team/organization first, I'm not loyal to any player because no player is loyal to any team. If Lebron isn't producing enough to bring titles to the Heat when time to re-sign, highly unlikely, I'm all for replacing him.

and yes, I have been calling for a Wade-Trade since the Fall/Winter of 2010!

[r15mohd]

LeShortcut James has 0 honor in his rings. He had to take the easy path.

Kobe dealt with a lot of shit late 04' to early 2008 with a rosters full of bums almost to the point he wanted to be traded but he stuck around.

He is every bit a ring chaser.


He made is own shit by chasing Shaq out of LA and then threatened to leave...what exactly did he deal with? he made his own demise.

[Straight_Ballin]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Joining two other all-stars, one of them a superstar to win rings isn't ring chasing? Let me guess, they colluded for the love of the game.

OP's a pathetic phagg0t. Next.

Agreed. The lengths these stans go to justify their chosen one not being a ring chaser is hillarious. No one gives a **** about what another ring chaser did. This is about lbj and the fact that he is a ring chaser.

[poido123]

the Big3 in Boston may not have been in their true prime, but they were still all-star claiber players, were they not? what's the difference between then and Miami, that Miami were more in their prime? :facepalm

and you fail to acknowledge the fact that the Miami Heat were a 1st round playoff team prior to Lebron and Bosh signing their names. what exactly was Lebron chasing with the Heat other than opportunity? isn't that what every all-star caliber player plays the game for, the opportunity to lift that trophy?

lol...the exceptions you all seem to abide by is really ridiculous


I don't hate him for wanting to win a championship. That's silly.

The big 3 of Boston get a pass, because those players were at the tail end of their career and were not considered heads and shoulders above their competition before they played a game. They did however gel better than what most people thought, but they are not comparible to the Heat. Lebron is the best in the game. None of those Boston players were considered in the top 5 or 10 best players at the time. Lebron joined one of top 3 shooting guards in the last 15 years and Bosh who was considered to be top 5 PF in the game and a regular allstar.

[fpliii]

I don't hate him for wanting to win a championship. That's silly.

The big 3 of Boston get a pass, because those players were at the tail end of their career and were not considered heads and shoulders above their competition before they played a game. They did however gel better than what most people thought, but they are not comparible to the Heat. Lebron is the best in the game. None of those Boston players were considered in the top 5 or 10 best players at the time. Lebron joined one of top 3 shooting guards in the last 15 years and Bosh who was considered to be top 5 PF in the game and a regular allstar.

KG?

[Mr Exlax]

You can't ring chase if you lead your team in that many categories. It's not possible. He basically upgraded his supporting cast on his own since they couldn't do it in Cleveland.

Anybody care to help me out on this one? I look at ring chasers as guys who join an established team and contribute very very little. I'd say my guy Rashard Lewis was a ring chaser. I'd say Eddie Curry was a ring chaser. If Kobe left LA tomorrow and joined let's say Miami and Kobe contributed a good amount in different categories that would make him a major part of the team. That's not ring chasing. Am I wrong ISH?

Take the names out of it. Player A led his new team in 5 different statistical categories and won 3 straight titles and FMVPS, is he a ring chaser?

[poido123]

KG?

Lebron
Wade
Kobe
Paul
Duncan
Parker
Gasol
Dirk

Ok, I'll give you top 10. :cheers:

But still collectively they are not what Wade/Bosh/Lebron are is what I'm saying.

[fpliii]

Lebron
Wade
Kobe
Paul
Duncan
Parker
Gasol
Dirk

Ok, I'll give you top 10. :cheers:

But still collectively they are not what Wade/Bosh/Lebron are is what I'm saying.

I'd rate him higher, but I'm heavily biased in favor of bigs who are elite defenders and rebounders.

I understand your point though, it was kind of unprecedented. The only thing that really comes close is the Lakers in summer 68, though Baylor was on the way out.

It's weird for LeBron since Wade (my favorite player) has broken down with injuries the last two years in the playoffs (though he has had a few big games when he's been needed to step up), and Bosh was hurt in 2012 and clearly overmatched this postseason in their two meaningful series (though he was without doubt miscast as a superstar anyway). I think in a few years this Miami thing won't be seen as a huge deal (especially if he wins a ring elsewhere), but these have been some well-built teams in terms of complementary talent. I just think everyone expected to see more of the 2010-11 version, which was a two-headed beast, but it hasn't turned out that way.

[diamenz]

lebron is a different kind of ring chaser, let's just put it that way.

[Fresh Kid]

He left Cleveland to win rings. By definition, that makes him a ring chaser.
end thread:applause:

[zoom17]

end thread:applause:

stfu

[#number6ix#]

Every superstar in the league is chasing something either money or a ring...that's the point to win chips and get paid... This theory of stacking teams is only valid when playing for fun not with millions on the line

[poido123]

Every superstar in the league is chasing something either money or a ring...that's the point to win chips and get paid... This theory of stacking teams is only valid when playing for fun not with millions on the line


Everyone chooses how they go about winning, and if you're Lebron James money is the least of you worries.

When he looks back on his career, it's gotta sit well with him and that's all that matters.

It's sad that an all-time talent like Lebron is, resorts to leaving Cleveland to ringchase on a superteam and promotes flopping in the NBA like there's nothing wrong with it.

[ripthekik]

ring chaser.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Regardless of how other greats had organic help that were brought to their teams to win rings.

And yes I know it takes multiple great players to win.

In LeBron's case, it's something different. He went from one extreme to the other. He could've got enough help, where he would be putting forth his personal maximum effort, while still having supplemental support to win rings.

Instead it looks cowardly when he left and joined as many stars as he did, all in their primes. Then claiming it's going to be easy (which was clearly his intent) ... it lacks an inherent competitive edge, and comes off as very cowardly. I personally would be ashamed if I was him.

He wanted to win multiple rings, the quickest and easiest way possible. That is not a characteristic befitting or endearing of someone already so naturally talented. There is no heart in that at all. That's why people have a problem with him, and that's one of the major reasons why his decision felt so shady.

[PJR]

Regardless of how other greats had organic help that were brought to their teams to win rings.

And yes I know it takes multiple great players to win.

In LeBron's case, it's something different. He went from one extreme to the other. He could've got enough help, where he would be putting forth his personal maximum effort, while still having supplemental support to win rings.


Is this not EXACTLY what ended up happening anyway. :confusedshrug:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Is this not EXACTLY what ended up happening anyway. :confusedshrug:
To be fair, in 2013? Yes. The previous two years though that superstar help he acquired still performed up to their capabilities.

In 2013 they didn't, due to circumstance (injury) ... The Heat in context without those 2 playing like the stars they are were fortunate to have a nice clean road to the Finals from am underwhelming talent perspective.

Indiana gave them a fight because the Heat weren't up to health. I don't think that series goes down like that with a healthy Wade, or even a Wade has productive as he was in 2012. Hell, look how dominant they were on their 20 something game winning streak when everyone was healthy?

[HoopsFanNumero1]

To be fair, in 2013? Yes. The previous two years though that superstar help he acquired still performed up to their capabilities.



In 2013 they didn't, due to circumstance (injury) ... The Heat in context without those 2 playing like the stars they are were fortunate to have a nice clean road to the Finals from am underwhelming talent perspective.

Indiana gave them a fight because the Heat weren't up to health. I don't think that series goes down like that with a healthy Wade, or even a Wade has productive as he was in 2012.

What about 2012? Bosh missed most of the Pacers and Celtics series. Wade was vintage in the Pacers series but underperformed in the Celtics series.

[SamuraiSWISH]

What about 2012? Bosh missed most of the Pacers and Celtics series. Wade was vintage in the Pacers series but underperformed in the Celtics series.
Wade wasn't bad. He still had his stretches where he performed like he should. And he played well in the Finals. Bosh was back by the late stages of the Celtics series and added the punch that was enough to get them past Boston. Obviously LeBron did heavy lifting, but he's still getting the double dose of superstar support. And it isn't always reflective in their stats or usage rates. Their abilities are still intact, and can be implemented when needed.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Wade wasn't bad. He still had his stretches where he performed like he should. And he played well in the Finals. Bosh was back by the late stages of the Celtics series and added the punch that was enough to get them past Boston. Obviously LeBron did heavy lifting, but he's still getting the double dose of superstar support. And it isn't always reflective in their stats or usage rates. Their abilities are still intact, and can be implemented when needed.

You consider Bosh a superstar? And game 7 was the one game where he really helped them get the win. Game 6 was a blowout.

[SamuraiSWISH]

You consider Bosh a superstar?
No, but he's a top five PF in the game. That says enough.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

No, but he's a top five PF in the game. That says enough.

I think we had this discussion before. In your opinion, would his path have been more difficult if he went to Chicago?

[SamuraiSWISH]

I think we had this discussion before. In your opinion, would his path have been more difficult if he went to Chicago?
Yes, it would have. Or New York and Cleveland. (depending who they acquired) ...

We might have, you're a LeBron stan who claims it was actually more difficult playing with Wade and Bosh to win multiple rings? Were you that guy?

And that's why he chose to go to Miami, because it wasn't going to be the easiest way to win not 6, not 7, not 8 ... right?

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Yes, it would have. Or New York and Cleveland. (depending who they acquired) ...

We might have, you're a LeBron stan who claims it was actually more difficult playing with Wade and Bosh to win multiple rings? Were you that guy?

And that's why he chose to go to Miami, because it wasn't going to be the easiest way to win not 6, not 7, not 8 ... right?

I said that Lebron and Wade's skill sets don't mesh as well, so in order from hardest to easiest, it would have been Chicago, Miami, Cleveland, New York.

He went to Miami because his best friend plays there. Not too hard to understand.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I said that Lebron and Wade's skill sets don't mesh as well, so in order from hardest to easiest, it would have been Chicago, Miami, Cleveland, New York.

He went to Miami because his best friend plays there. Not too hard to understand.
No talent trumps hard work ... The difference in talent was obvious when Miami plays Chicago.

Wade gave the best opportunity to win multiple rings because of his abilities to play like an MVP caliber player.

Anyone thinking Chicago was a better fit for LeBrons abilities is correct. Their makeup was like his Cleveland teams. Exactly similar. He chose Miami because it was the easier path due to the overwhelming talent.

He said this himself. It didn't matter that his half court game wasn't a great mesh with Wade. LeBron felt he needed the MVP caliber help to win.

Arguing otherwise is revisionist and stupid. As a LeBron stan you need to own it.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

No talent trumps hard work ... The difference in talent was obvious when Miami plays Chicago.

Wade gave the best opportunity to win multiple rings because of his abilities to play like an MVP caliber player.

Anyone thinking Chicago was a better fit for LeBrons abilities is correct. Their makeup was like his Cleveland teams. Exactly similar. He chose Miami because it was the easier path due to the overwhelming talent.

He said this himself. It didn't matter that his half court game wasn't a great mesh with Wade. LeBron felt he needed the MVP caliber help to win.

Arguing otherwise is revisionist and stupid. As a LeBron stan you need to own it.

We clearly have different opinions, and I'm not "admitting" shit to suit your very heavy bias.

As for the bolded, all I have to say is that in the 2011 ECF, every single game after the first one was very close despite Rose playing like absolute shit. The difference in talent is nowhere near as vast as you like to imagine.

[guy]

I don't discredit Lebron's titles, but I would say he is a "ring chaser" and I don't think people would question if he was going to leave his team that he just won back to back titles with if he wasn't a "ring chaser".

[longtime lurker]

Of course he's a ring chaser, the man went to Miami to win rings. He himself said it. He didn't say that he wanted to revive a franchise, he didn't say he wanted to build a legacy he said he came to win rings. And he made sure he joined a team with his competition to make it less competitive.

[hawke812]

Lebron is the king ring chaser. Why? It should be obvious, seven years into his career, and the so-called "best player on the planet" has yet to win a ring. So what does he do? He packs his bags and blasts to the nation on the "Decision" that he was packing his bags and moving to South Beach to join fellow "Super Friends," Bosh and Wade. If this isn't ring chasing, we don't know what is. And now the remix of his Nike "Rise" commercial...

http://www.ringchasers.com/blog/index.php?entry=entry101030-224709

Lebron is the king ring-chaser because there is a blog about it on the internet.

Dismissed.

[ILLsmak]

Ring chasing is the wrong term. Taking the easy way out is better.

-Smak

[ILLsmak]

Yes, it would have. Or New York and Cleveland. (depending who they acquired) ...

We might have, you're a LeBron stan who claims it was actually more difficult playing with Wade and Bosh to win multiple rings? Were you that guy?

And that's why he chose to go to Miami, because it wasn't going to be the easiest way to win not 6, not 7, not 8 ... right?

lolol, wat? Chicago would be better. I dunno who they'd have to get rid of, but as long as they had DENG/NOAH/ROSE it would be better. Imagine that team with Bron as the PF who can also handle the ball.

It wasn't even that he built the best possible team in Miami, it's just that he hooked up with two other top players in hope of creating a superteam. Truth be told, unless he wanted to live in Miami, he did kind of a shitty job for the long run.

DP.

-Smak

[zoom17]

http://www.ringchasers.com/blog/index.php?entry=entry101030-224709

Lebron is the king ring-chaser because there is a blog about it on the internet.

Dismissed.

its 2013 and people still cant get over that fact he left :roll: :roll:

[b4uc.23]

its 2013 and people still cant get over that fact he left :roll: :roll:

This.

Its not like he had prime shaq during his title runs.. :lol

He earned it more than anyone in the league.

[Graviton]

He may be a "ring chaser", but considering how he does all the heavy lifting for that team Wade/Bosh are more lucky to have Lebron carry them than the other way around. :oldlol:

When you are your teams best scorer, rebounder, playmaker, passer, defender and play the most minutes and basically do EVERYTHING on the court ring chasing ends up backfiring. After watching 2013 playoffs it was pretty evident there is only 1 SUPERSTAR on the Miami Heat. Criticizing Lebron for too much help would be more effective if Wade was still a 25/5/5 type player and Bosh could rebound or score like Gasol in 2010.

[PickernRoller]

This.

Its not like he had prime shaq during his title runs.. :lol

He earned it more than anyone in the league.

No he didn't.

[PickernRoller]

He may be a "ring chaser", but considering how he does all the heavy lifting for that team Wade/Bosh are more lucky to have Lebron carry them than the other way around. :oldlol:

When you are your teams best scorer, rebounder, playmaker, passer, defender and play the most minutes and basically do EVERYTHING on the court ring chasing ends up backfiring. After watching 2013 playoffs it was pretty evident there is only 1 SUPERSTAR on the Miami Heat. Criticizing Lebron for too much help would be more effective if Wade was still a 25/5/5 type player and Bosh could rebound or score like Gasol in 2010.

Well, it's not Duncan's or Kobe's fault that all-star caliber players regress when joining Lebron. So it is not a compliment. That's the fallacy of stats. 2011 Heat had Wade and Bosh more involved....we all know that system was totally scrapped after Lebron choked.

[Chrono90]

The reason to team with prime Wade and prime Bosh is not to win rings???

[Jacks3]

joining a top 3 player in the league + perennial all-star PF in beginning of your prime isn't ring chasing? :confusedshrug:

[Bigsmoke]

Who the hell would play in a city like Cleveland over miami anyway

It is basically Detroit jr.

[ripthekik]

joining a top 3 player in the league + perennial all-star PF in beginning of your prime isn't ring chasing? :confusedshrug:
:lol

and he wears the shirt EARNED NOT GIVEN
:roll: :roll: :roll: