Five Reasons Larry Bird Was Better Than Michael Jordan!

[East_Stone_Ya]

while I don't agree with him, he still makes some interesting points in the article.



http://sports.yahoo.com/news/five-reasons-larry-bird-better-michael-jordan-184600401.html

I admit that Bird was a better shooter than MJ but the rest is debatable


Bird's shooting form is legendary in basketball circles for good reason. He may very well be the best pure shooter the game has ever seen, especially for his size. In 12 seasons, Bird finished in the top 10 in 3-point field-goal percentage seven times, sinking an amazing average of 41.4 percent of his attempts from 1984-1988. In contrast, the average 3-point field-goal percentage in Jordan's four best shooting seasons was only 38.2 percent and his career average was a low 32.7 percent. Additionally, Jordan never managed to finish among the 10 best 3-point shooters in any of his 13 seasons.
Bird was also a better free-throw shooter. Over his career, Bird made 88.6 percent of his free throws, compared to Jordan's 83.5-percent career average. Bird also led the league in free-throw shooting four times and finished in the top 10 amongst all players 11 times. Jordan never led the league in this category or even managed to end a season in the top 10.

[Electric Slide]

I'll be surprised if he isn't fired by the end of the day.

[JtotheIzzo]

Bird is usually underrated on these forums, but this is a bit too much in the other direction.

Jordan > Bird.

But lets not forget one thing about Larry, he was the hands down best player in the league when a lot of other top 15 all time guys were in the league and either in their prime or close to it.

[dr.hee]

while I don't agree with him, he still makes some interesting points in the article.



http://sports.yahoo.com/news/five-reasons-larry-bird-better-michael-jordan-184600401.html

I admit that Bird was a better shooter than MJ but the rest is debatable

What a stupid article. Not because of the whole who's better debate in general, but because his "reasons" are just dumb.


Bird was a better shooter

So are Steph Curry, Mark Price, Drazen Petrovic, Dirk Nowitzki, Peja Stojakovic and Ray Allen. The point being?


Unlike Jordan, who primarily played on the perimeter and stole most of his rebounds away from other guards, Bird spent a lot of time in the post fighting for boards with some of the NBA's best rebounders.

So a SF/PF is playing more in the post than a SG? Thanks for the information, didn't know that. Pretty shocking stuff.


Jordan was a great defender, but Bird could guard players at almost every position

So? That would make Bird a more versatile defender at best. But how does this matter to the topic?


Bird could score in the post

Yeah, the lack of post scoring ability was really holding MJ back. The same with Kobe by the way. I often wonder how good Kobe would be if he had a low post game. Maybe he should try to develop, I don't know, better footwork and some moves. What about adding a fadeaway to his game?


Bottom line, I don't care about Top 10 rankings and sh*t. That's subjective. But how can an adult human being with a working brain write such an article and think it's good enough to share it with the world?

[East_Stone_Ya]

But how can an adult human being with a working brain write such an article and think it's good enough to share it with the world?

because he is a Celtics homer


Justin Haskins is a New England native and journalism student at Regent University. He has been obsessively following Boston professional sports for 10 years and has been published in numerous online publications and websites.

[Millennium X]

jordan was better than bird if you think there's more to the game of basketball than just offense. bird's defense was a joke compared to mj.

and sure, he may have been a better 3-pt shooter and passer, but so was steve nash. who cares? jordan was a much better offensive player and scorer overall. bird never dropped a 41 ppg finals avg or 55 in a finals game. he was easier to stop than jordan.

[pauk]

All i can say is that Larry Bird is the most skilled player i have ever seen in my life.

[JellyBean]

Wow. Gotta loved how the writer just threw Karl Malone, John Stockton, and Charles Barkley under the bus. Bird was a better shooter than Jordan...that is about it. Bird was terrible on defense. He never guarded the other teams best player. He never guarded all positions on the floor. Bird was great. But that was in the early stages of his career.

[Sarcastic]

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/jesus-eating-popcorn-gif.gif

[jzek]

Not better than Jordan but he is the GOAT SF!

[pudman13]

The weakest part of this article is the bit about defense. Bird is a better defender than he gets credit for, but Jordan was better.

I notice that most of the top 10 lists on this forum underrate Bird, generally listing him a few notches below Magic. The fact was that throughout their careers it was generally accepted that Bird was the better of the two players, and Magic only seems to get the overall nod because his career lasted a bit longer. I'm not going to argue too much on this one; I say it's a tough call between them, but I think they belong side by side on any best list.

Jordan is better than Bird--I won't make that argument, and when picking a top 10 I'd suggest that Kareem should rank higher too, but I can see a legit argument that Bird could be #3.

[Nuff Said]

His arguments were stupid. He arbitrarily hand picked his own skill sets that make Larry look better, completely ignoring all the other aspects to the game. How can anyone take this guy seriously as a writer?

[ILLsmak]

The weakest part of this article is the bit about defense. Bird is a better defender than he gets credit for, but Jordan was better.

I notice that most of the top 10 lists on this forum underrate Bird, generally listing him a few notches below Magic. The fact was that throughout their careers it was generally accepted that Bird was the better of the two players, and Magic only seems to get the overall nod because his career lasted a bit longer. I'm not going to argue too much on this one; I say it's a tough call between them, but I think they belong side by side on any best list.

Jordan is better than Bird--I won't make that argument, and when picking a top 10 I'd suggest that Kareem should rank higher too, but I can see a legit argument that Bird could be #3.


I think Bird could be GOAT. There is an argument. As said, it comes down to era. Bird's main downfall was how short his career was, but he did a lot in it.

Kareem was on a super talented Lakers team with another top 10 (or maybe 5) all time great in Magic. That allowed him to play longer and get those records. I flipped on NBA TV the other day and saw the Lakers vs the Mavs and the announcer was talking about Kareem chasing West's playoff point record. This was in 84 mind you, and he was like "Yeah he still needs 700 points, so it's doubtful." Little did he know dude was gonna play 5 more years.

However, on the flip, if you want to give Kareem credit for his college career (and I'm one of the people who think that matters in determining someone's greatness), you have to put him as indisputable GOAT.

Again MJ's stats and accomplishments are sexier than Birds, however, if LeBron somehow won 7 titles, what would people say when compared to MJ? Some people would say GOAT, but others would say "weak era." MJ did play in a pretty weak era, too. NONE of the teams other than the Bulls from 90 to 98 (including his lockout years, the Rockets teams) could have won a ring in the 80s. In the 80s it was Boston, LA, that 76ers team that was no joke, and the Pistons at the end. All better than what MJ faced. That's completely a subjective statement, but there is truth behind it. I can't prove it; you'll just have to think.

However, it's like taking an intelligence test. Most tests cap out, some cap higher than others. Bird's test was a higher cap, but MJ aced his in a way Bird didn't. We'll never really know who is better, but looking at it, it seems like Bird at least has an argument.

-Smak

[Scholar]

First, I'd like to give my condolensces to this man's credibility.

Now that that's out of the way, I just want to emphasize how much I hate when people talk about Jordan's lack of deep Playoff runs in the '80s. Look who he played with, & then look at the Celtics or Pistons or 76ers. How is Jordan by himself supposed to compete against them?

Jordan showed he's among the GOAT by dropping 63 on the Celtics. I have that game on DVD & I love watching it from time to time. It's not MJ's fault he didn't have actual championship contending teams until the '90s.


People reach too much. Every elite player gets scrutinized for not being able to lead garbage teams far, but when they do win rings, those same haters say dumb shit like, "It's because his teammates are doing all the work." GTFO

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Bird was a sick defender as well.

[Jailblazers7]

Damn, people get paid for writing something like that? It was an extremely lazy article. I've seen ISHers put more thought and research into their posts than that.

edit - nvm it was written on the Yahoo contributor network which means some lazy fan got his shit published.

[rhythmic]

Yeah well, I can give you guys 20+ reasons why Jordan was better then Bird.

[dr.hee]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[Scholar]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

Damn, Kobe has a nice ass in your avy. I didn't know that Achilles tendon injury would turn him into such a sexy female. :applause:

I know eh bro?
Her ass is as aesthetically pleasing as Kobe's game. :cheers:

[tontoz]

Jordan was better than Bird but that doesn't change the fact that Bird was an absolute BEAST.

For his career Bird averaged:

24 pts (50% from the field, 38% from 3, 89% from the line)
10 rebounds
6 assists
1.7 steals

But that doesn't even do him justice. Watching him play you couldn't help but shake your head in disbelief at some of the stuff he did.

That applies to Magic as well. Jordan was better than both but i don't think the gap is as big as many young people believe. anyone who saw Magic/Bird at their best knows what i am talking about.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I don't agree but he makes some great points and at their best is definitely debatable.

Bird was a better shooter, better in the post, better passer, better rebounder, better team-defender (and team-defense is more impactful)... Not that MJ wasn't great at some of those things though. And Bird is one of the few that's most likely above Jordan in terms of overall intangibles (considering IQ, clutchness, confidence, hustle, ability to make teams and teammates better.

Plus Bird had to compete against better superstars at the top, and teams.

Bird improved the Celtics from 29 to 61 wins, 2nd worst to best and the ECF, when he arrived, with the same roster.
As a sophomore, only major change was Parish, and Cowens gone, he led them to a championship.
When he was out in 1989 they dropped like 15 wins and get swept in the 1st round, even adding Reggie Lewis. He returns as a shell and they improve by 10 wins I believe, again. When MJ retired for the 1st time, Bulls dropped like 2 wins and almost made it to the Finals.

Also Bird, had a better team though, but he always kicked the Bulls in the PS, outplaying Jordan.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What a stupid article. Not because of the whole who's better debate in general, but because his "reasons" are just dumb.

So are Steph Curry, Mark Price, Drazen Petrovic, Dirk Nowitzki, Peja Stojakovic and Ray Allen. The point being?

With the exception of peak Dirk and Steph, who is still coming into his own, none of these guys could score like Bird.

Larry could drop 50 on just jumpers.


So a SF/PF is playing more in the post than a SG? Thanks for the information, didn't know that. Pretty shocking stuff.

Just like Shaq played more in the post than Bird...what's your point? :confusedshrug:

We're talking about impact here.


So? That would make Bird a more versatile defender at best. But how does this matter to the topic?

Wait..so now versatility is irrelevant when ranking players?


Bottom line, I don't care about Top 10 rankings and sh*t. That's subjective. But how can an adult human being with a working brain write such an article and think it's good enough to share it with the world?

I'm not on the Bird>Jordan bandwagon, but some of his examples were valid. Maybe you need to educate yourself on the history of the game?

[3peated]

shoulda titled it 5 things bird was better at than jordan, he wasn't a better player though, lol.

[NumberSix]

Was anybody ever arguing that MJ wax a better shooter in the first place? It's like saying Durant is a better shooter than LeBron. Duh, that obviously true. Who would even argue?

[Round Mound]

Better Far Range Shooter, Pure Shooter, Passer, Rebounder and Team Defender

[TheCorporation]

MJ > LBJ > Bird

[NumberSix]

MJ > LBJ > Bird
You're not cool.

[dr.hee]

With the exception of peak Dirk and Steph, who is still coming into his own, none of these guys could score like Bird.

Larry could drop 50 on just jumpers.

What about reading the article before posting? The guy was talking about Bird being a better pure shooter than Jordan and having a better FT percentage. You on the other hand are talking about "scoring like Bird". Do you know the difference yourself or should I explain it to you? All the guys I was mentioning are in fact better "pure shooters" than MJ. It's like comparing Duncan to Dirk and say "Well Dirk has a better FT%". It's idiotic and exactly what the author of the article did.


Just like Shaq played more in the post than Bird...what's your point? :confusedshrug:

My point was that I don't see how a forward playing in the post more frequently and grabbing more rebounds than a guard is relevant to the premise of the article. He also tells us Jordan was never was in top 10 in total rebounds. A shooting guard...not one of the 10 best rebounders in the league...what is he trying to say?



Wait..so now versatility is irrelevant when ranking players?


Comparing a guard to a forward makes no sense anyway. What's the point? It's all about "My hero is better than yours", and that's just stupid to me. Different skillsets suited for different roles. Why try to "rank" them? I mean if you use specific categories like versatility,3pt shooting or passing, you could try to rank players in all of them. But how on earth could you make a list where players with completely different skillsets and roles are ranked objectively?


I'm not on the Bird>Jordan bandwagon, but some of his examples were valid. Maybe you need to educate yourself on the history of the game?

He wasn't giving any "examples" relevant to his premise at all. Instead he was picking some random aspects of Bird's game and claiming that being superior in these categories was making him the better player. If his "examples" were enough to convince you, I have to ask how old are you?
This is not about Bird>MJ, MJ>Bird or whatever...it's just that the author was trying to give 5 reasons for a specific claim. And he posted complete bullsh*t

I'm not a Celtic or Bulls fan, and not a Jordan or Bird stan either. I simply clicked on the link and was reading a sh*tty article. That's it.

[KOBE143]

Bird plays like a girl while MJ plays like Kobe..

See the big difference? Therefore MJ is the better player but If I would have to choose who would I draft first today then that would be tough.. I think both of them would've have a legit case for number 1 draft pick today.. Bird would be #1 pick for WNBA while MJ would be #1 pick for NBA..

[NumberSix]

Bird plays like a girl while MJ plays like Kobe..

See the big difference? Therefore MJ is the better player but If I would have to choose who would I draft first today then that would be tough.. I think both of them would've have a legit case for number 1 draft pick today.. Bird would be #1 pick for WNBA while MJ would be #1 pick for NBA..
You are literally the worst poster on this forum. Even as far as trolls go. At least some trolls are funny or say things that provoked hilarious arguments. You don't even bait angry responses. You're just dumb.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What about reading the article before posting? The guy was talking about Bird being a better pure shooter than Jordan and having a better FT percentage. You on the other hand are talking about "scoring like Bird". Do you know the difference yourself or should I explain it to you? All the guys I was mentioning are in fact better "pure shooters" than MJ. It's like comparing Duncan to Dirk and say "Well Dirk has a better FT%". It's idiotic and exactly what the author of the article did.

What? That's the point. The authors (and my post; please re-read it) argument is that Bird was a more versatile scorer because of his elite shooting. That is a plus any way you slice it.


My point was that I don't see how a forward playing in the post more frequently and grabbing more rebounds than a guard is relevant to the premise of the article. He also tells us Jordan was never was in top 10 in total rebounds. A shooting guard...not one of the 10 best rebounders in the league...what is he trying to say?

It's perfectly relevant to ranking and comparing players, which is what the author was doing.



Comparing a guard to a forward makes no sense anyway. What's the point? It's all about "My hero is better than yours", and that's just stupid to me. Different skillsets suited for different roles. Why try to "rank" them?

Different strokes for different folks. At the end of the day, they're both perimeter-oriented players.


He wasn't giving any "examples" relevant to his premise at all. Instead he was picking some random aspects of Bird's game and claiming that being superior in these categories was making him the better player. If his "examples" were enough to convince you, I have to ask how old are you?
This is not about Bird>MJ, MJ>Bird or whatever...it's just that the author was trying to give 5 reasons for a specific claim. And he posted complete bullsh*t

The premise of his article was weak. I'll give you that. Still doesn't mean said random aspects shouldn't be accounted for, though.

Peak Bird vs Peak Jordan is actually really close, imo.


I'm not a Celtic or Bulls fan, and not a Jordan or Bird stan either. I simply clicked on the link and was reading a sh*tty article. That's it.

Yeah. I wasn't trying to attack you btw. Just don't agree with some of your points is all.

[KOBE143]

You are literally the worst poster on this forum. Even as far as trolls go. At least some trolls are funny or say things that provoked hilarious arguments. You don't even bait angry responses. You're just dumb.
Are you referring to yourself? If YES the I agree..

[305Baller]

I will give the writer points for trying.

[Fresh Kid]

All i can say is that Larry Bird is the most skilled player i have ever seen in my life.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[dr.hee]

What? That's the point. The authors (and my post; please re-read it) argument is that Bird was a more versatile scorer because of his elite shooting. That is a plus any way you slice it.

Yeah but the thing is...the article is about "5 reasons why Bird was better than Jordan". Then he says MJ was a better scorer, while a bit less versatile. That's why I was mentioning guys like Ray Allen. Better pure shooters. More range. But how is being more "versatile" or a better "pure shooter" relevant to his try to rank Jordan and Bird? What if it was the other way around? Let's imagine MJ had unlimited range, but Bird was dropping 35 ppg on high efficiency in his prime. Do you think this author from Boston (!) would say that even though Bird was a better scorer, MJ gets the nod because he was more "versatile"? Surely not. He's arbitrarily choosing examples that are fitting his agenda.



Different strokes for different folks. At the end of the day, they're both perimeter-oriented players.

Sure, but wouldn't you agree that you have to build teams differently around them to win it all? In my opinion, ranking only makes sense if players have very similar roles on their teams.



The premise of his article was weak. I'll give you that. Still doesn't mean said random aspects shouldn't be accounted for, though.

Peak Bird vs Peak Jordan is actually really close, imo.

Yeah. I wasn't trying to attack you btw. Just don't agree with some of your points is all.

:cheers:

Of course it's pretty close and depends on how the rest of your team looks like mostly. The thing is that the author was writing stuff I think any bball fan already knows. His 5 points are all true.
But the conclusion "therefore Bird > Jordan" was just dumb.

[rhythmic]

Are you referring to yourself? If YES the I agree..

I second that motion.

[riseagainst]

Bird plays like a girl while MJ plays like Kobe..

See the big difference? Therefore MJ is the better player but If I would have to choose who would I draft first today then that would be tough.. I think both of them would've have a legit case for number 1 draft pick today.. Bird would be #1 pick for WNBA while MJ would be #1 pick for NBA..

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[rhythmic]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

What's so funny? :rolleyes:
Name me another top 10 player that was as unathletic as Larry Bird was?
The guy dominated with his skill & fundamentals.

Him & Kobe are the two most skilled players I have ever seen.

[pudman13]

But that doesn't even do him justice. Watching him play you couldn't help but shake your head in disbelief at some of the stuff he did.

That applies to Magic as well. Jordan was better than both but i don't think the gap is as big as many young people believe. anyone who saw Magic/Bird at their best knows what i am talking about.

This post is dead on.

[rhythmic]

This post is dead on.

Yep, marketing & time can really skew people's perception.
Jordan being way better then Magic or Bird is a complete myth, told by kids over the years who haven't even watched prime Bird/Magic play and influenced other impressionable minds.

[Legends66NBA7]

Peak Jordan is better than peak Bird, but the big key is Jordan's defense that gives him the edge there. Offensively, they are about even at their peaks.

[Harison]

I dont agree with an author that Bird > MJ, but there are some areas where Bird was better, and my list is mostly different:

1. Bird had higher BBIQ (and is smarter in general). Imagine Bird in MJs or Lebron's body? :eek:

2. Bird is better passer and had better court vision.

3. Bird is better shooter.

4. Clutch part is debatable, I might take Bird, but MJ is right up there. Some coach said, "if game is on the line, I take Jordan. If my life depends on it, I take Bird" :applause:

Bottom line, MJ is still the GOAT, and Bird has a case as a GOAT offensively.

[K Xerxes]

With all due respect, this 'Bird is a better shooter' is absolute nonsense. I don't care if he's a better shooter from 3 point land, the FT line or from exactly 28.99 feet from the floor. All I care about is how that translates into scoring and efficiency, and that is Jordan all day every day. This isn't a case of LeBron in the scoring category (who can be somewhat limited depending on the defense played with his relatively inconsistent jumper); this is freaking Michael Jordan who could not be stopped in the 90s with his godly basket assault and deadly midrange/post game.

Jordan puts the ball in the hoop more effectively than Bird. Whether that be down to athleticism or skills or whatever, it doesn't matter, he's still better. Bird is a better rebounder and passer, but Jordan distinguishes himself from Bird in scoring and, of course, defense. That giant man to man defense difference puts this debate to bed.

You can argue that Bird is the best all round offensive player ever in his peak.

You can argue that Jordan is the best player in his peak. Period.

[TheMan]

MJ > Bird

Silly article.

[NumberSix]

With all due respect, this 'Bird is a better shooter' is absolute nonsense. I don't care if he's a better shooter from 3 point land, the FT line or from exactly 28.99 feet from the floor. All I care about is how that translates into scoring and efficiency, and that is Jordan all day every day. This isn't a case of LeBron in the scoring category (who can be somewhat limited depending on the defense played with his relatively inconsistent jumper); this is freaking Michael Jordan who could not be stopped in the 90s with his godly basket assault and deadly midrange/post game.

Jordan puts the ball in the hoop more effectively than Bird. Whether that be down to athleticism or skills or whatever, it doesn't matter, he's still better. Bird is a better rebounder and passer, but Jordan distinguishes himself from Bird in scoring and, of course, defense. That giant man to man defense difference puts this debate to bed.

You can argue that Bird is the best all round offensive player ever in his peak.

You can argue that Jordan is the best player in his peak. Period.
And here come tho Jordan mythologists refusing to admit that anybody could possibly be better than Jordan at anything. :rolleyes:

Bird was a better shooter. Indisputable.

You seem to be arguing that Jordan is a better scorer. I would agree. There's more to scoring than shooting. Jordan was never an elite shooter. Ever.

[K Xerxes]

And here come tho Jordan mythologists refusing to admit that anybody could possibly be better than Jordan at anything. :rolleyes:

Bird was a better shooter. Indisputable.

You seem to be arguing that Jordan is a better scorer. I would agree. There's more to scoring than shooting. Jordan was never an elite shooter. Ever.

Your comprehension skills are failing you, sir. I just said Bird was a better rebounder and passer. :rolleyes:

Anyway, Bird is a better long range shooter and FT shooter than Jordan. So what? I don't care, Jordan put the ball in the hoop more effectively than Bird did.

'Shooting' is not a criteria I find particularly important when comparing players directly. Scoring - composed of volume and efficiency - is what's important.

[NumberSix]

Your comprehension skills are failing you, sir. I just said Bird was a better rebounder and passer. :rolleyes:

Anyway, Bird is a better long range shooter and FT shooter than Jordan. So what? I don't care, Jordan put the ball in the hoop more effectively than Bird did.

'Shooting' is not a criteria I find particularly important when comparing players directly. Scoring - composed of volume and efficiency - is what's important.
I would agree. I would say LeBron is a better scorer than larry too, but I would never say he's a better shooter. It just isn't true.

[bagelred]

Even Larry Bird himself knows he's not better than MJ. I'm sure he's said it many times.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Your comprehension skills are failing you, sir. I just said Bird was a better rebounder and passer. :rolleyes:

Anyway, Bird is a better long range shooter and FT shooter than Jordan. So what? I don't care, Jordan put the ball in the hoop more effectively than Bird did.

'Shooting' is not a criteria I find particularly important when comparing players directly. Scoring - composed of volume and efficiency - is what's important.
No, he's just mad that you were throwing around words of the truth about Jordan's skill set, mentality, and production.

And made an astute observation that LeBron can be limited given he is an inconsistent shooter, who doesn't have confidence in his own abilities, which defenses can take advantage of.

So he got defensive. Mad. Every factual thing you said was blurred by his angry defensive nature over LeBron.

[TheMan]

No, he's just mad that you were throwing around words of the truth about Jordan's skill set, mentality, and production.

And made an astute observation that LeBron can be limited given he is an inconsistent shooter, who doesn't have confidence in his own abilities, which defenses can take advantage of.

So he got defensive. Mad. Every factual thing you said was blurred by his angry defensive nature over LeBron.
:applause:

[NumberSix]

No, he's just mad that you were throwing around words of the truth about Jordan's skill set, mentality, and production.

And made an astute observation that LeBron can be limited given he is an inconsistent shooter, who doesn't have confidence in his own abilities, which defenses can take advantage of.

So he got defensive. Mad. Every factual thing you said was blurred by his angry defensive nature over LeBron.
This is quite a reach. :roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

..

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/3685668/mad-donald-duck-o.gif

[TonyMontana]

Bird > Jordan. It is not a coincidence that the Celtics absolutely OWNED the Bulls until Birds back was to the point where he couldn't even play. Just look at their games in the 87 and 88 season when both of them were close to prime form. Bird was 9-1 against him and dominated Jordan when matched up against eachother.

"But Birds team was better!!!!". Yes because Bird made it better. The beauty with guys like Bird is that they elevate everyone elses game on top of their own. Bird could have led the league in scoring if he wanted, but he knew it would be best if everyone on the team had confidence. The only one Jordan makes better is Jordan. Not a surprise that when he retired in 93, three of his ex teammates all went on to have breakout years and were all-stars.

Boston Celtics before Bird: 29-53
Boston Celtics Birds rookie year: 61-21
+32 game difference

Chicago Bulls before Jordan: 27-55
Chicago Bulls Jordans rookie year: 38-44
+11 game difference

1988 Celtics(with Bird): 57-25
1989 Celtics(Bird out for year): 42-40
-15 game difference

1993 Bulls(with Jordan):57-25
1994 Bulls(Jordan out for year): 55-27
-2 game difference

I rest my case.

[NumberSix]

Bird > Jordan. It is not a coincidence that the Celtics absolutely OWNED the Bulls until Birds back was to the point where he couldn't even play. Just look at their games in the 87 and 88 season when both of them were close to prime form. Bird was 9-1 against him and dominated Jordan when matched up against eachother.

"But Birds team was better!!!!". Yes because Bird made it better. The beauty guys like Bird is that they elevate everyone elses game on top of their own. Bird could have led the league in scoring if he wanted, but he knew it would be best if everyone on the team had confidence. The only one Jordan makes better is Jordan. Not a surprise when he retired in 93, three of his ex teammates all went on to have breakout years and were all-stars.

Boston Celtics before Bird: 29-53
Boston Celtics Birds rookie year: 61-21
+32 game difference

Chicago Bulls before Jordan: 27-55
Chicago Bulls Jordans rookie year: 38-44
+11 game difference

1988 Celtics(with Bird): 57-25
1989 Celtics(Bird out for year): 42-40
-15 game difference

1993 Bulls(with Jordan):57-25
1994 Bulls(Jordan out for year): 55-27
-2 game difference

I rest my case.no, Jordan is without question than bird. Remove bird and Jordan from the teams. The bulls have no business even competing with the celtics.

[TonyMontana]

no, Jordan is without question than bird. Remove bird and Jordan from the teams. The bulls have no business even competing with the celtics.

Go to youtube and watch any video of Bird and Jordan playing against eachother. Bird makes him look like a dancing monkey.

The Celtics had a better roster than the Bulls at their best, but they also had to battle equally talented teams such as the Lakers, and Sixers. Meanwhile Jordan has his 3 HOFer teams stacking up titles in a weak era where no other teams cast can even begin to compare.

[Round Mound]

Bird > Jordan. It is not a coincidence that the Celtics absolutely OWNED the Bulls until Birds back was to the point where he couldn't even play. Just look at their games in the 87 and 88 season when both of them were close to prime form. Bird was 9-1 against him and dominated Jordan when matched up against eachother.

"But Birds team was better!!!!". Yes because Bird made it better. The beauty with guys like Bird is that they elevate everyone elses game on top of their own. Bird could have led the league in scoring if he wanted, but he knew it would be best if everyone on the team had confidence. The only one Jordan makes better is Jordan. Not a surprise that when he retired in 93, three of his ex teammates all went on to have breakout years and were all-stars.

Boston Celtics before Bird: 29-53
Boston Celtics Birds rookie year: 61-21
+32 game difference

Chicago Bulls before Jordan: 27-55
Chicago Bulls Jordans rookie year: 38-44
+11 game difference

1988 Celtics(with Bird): 57-25
1989 Celtics(Bird out for year): 42-40
-15 game difference

1993 Bulls(with Jordan):57-25
1994 Bulls(Jordan out for year): 55-27
-2 game difference

I rest my case.

Bird > Jordan as a Team Player :applause:

[Asukal]

I don't care if Larry can pass or shoot better, MJ can score and defend better than Bird. In a game, I would pick a team mate like Larry though. I don't think it would be fun to play with Jordan, he would eat you alive if you didn't live up to his expectations lol. :roll:

[diamenz]

Go to youtube and watch any video of Bird and Jordan playing against eachother. Bird makes him look like a dancing monkey.

The Celtics had a better roster than the Bulls at their best, but they also had to battle equally talented teams such as the Lakers, and Sixers. Meanwhile Jordan has his 3 HOFer teams stacking up titles in a weak era where no other teams cast can even begin to compare.

sounds a lot like lebron and the heat to me...

[East_Stone_Ya]

I don't care if Larry can pass or shoot better, MJ can score and defend better than Bird. In a game, I would pick a team mate like Larry though. I don't think it would be fun to play with Jordan, he would eat you alive if you didn't live up to his expectations lol. :roll:

actually Bird was also demanding a lot from his teammates


When I was a player, I didn't expect my teammates to play the way I did. I did expect them to work hard hard every day and get better. And I never learned anything by losing.

[LeBird]

actually Bird was also demanding a lot from his teammates

But they revered and respected him. Not like Jordan's teammates who were generally at best indifferent to him or outright hated him.


The article is nice, probably designed to get a few hits, but it shouldn't be treated as a definitive article on why Bird was better than Jordan.

I think comparing their skills/abilities individually shows you that they're both in the top echelon of players; but the main reason I hold Bird as superior to Jordan is simply because Bird was a much more positive influence on his team and getting his teammates to play better than Jordan was for his team and teammates.

Get two teams of relatively equal strength, one with Jordan and with Bird on the other end and I take Larry without much hesitation.

[TheMan]

sounds a lot like lebron and the heat to me...
This, but TonyMontana would like you to believe LBJ has beaten the 80s Lakers and Celtics:oldlol: Who has LBJ faced in the Finals? A great Spurs dynasty team in 2007, not coincidently LBJ got ethered. He then lost to Dirk Nowitzki and a bunch of role players, the Heat, man per man were the better team yet LeBron shit the bed. He then beat a team who's main stars were 22-23 years old:oldlol: and just recently survived a Finals against a Spurs team that is a shell of their former selves. If Montana gon' dog MJ for who he beat, let's also look at who LeBron has faced in the Finals and keep it real.

And the reason I bring LeBron in this thread is because Montana loves crapping on Jordan and propping up LBJ.

Peak Bird > Peak LBJ

[TheMan]

LeBird

Get two teams of relatively equal strength, one with LeBron and with Bird on the other end and I take Larry without much hesitation.
Me too, Bird is a better passer, rebounder, shooter, post player and more clutch. LBJ has elite athleticism and defense but gimme Bird easily:bowdown: The article says Bird routinely owned elite athletic players, why would James be any different:confusedshrug:

[SamuraiSWISH]

MJ and Bird are the biggest bad asses to ever play the sport.

[Rolando]

MJ and Bird are the biggest bad asses to ever play the sport.

/thread

[East_Stone_Ya]

wow I didn't know that Bird leads the all time match-up 23-11 including 6-0 in playoffs sweeping Jordan out in back to back years



But it's interesting to look back at the Bird/Jordan duels of the 1986-87 and 1987-88 campaigns. Those were Bird's last two healthy years, and they were also the seasons that Jordan was at his most statistically dominant (37/5/4 in '87 and 35/5/5 in '88).

In 1986-87, Bird averaged 34 PPG (on 56 percent shooting) against the Bulls; Jordan averaged 29 PPG (on 42 percent shooting) against the Celtics. Bird outscored Jordan in four out of six games, and two of those times it wasn't even close: On March 27, 1987 Bird hit for 41 (17-29) compared to Jordan's 22 (9-23); on April 17, 1987 Bird netted 38 (17-29 again) and Jordan had only 17 (5-15).


n 1987-88, Bird averaged 34 PPG (on 59 percent shooting) against the Bulls (although he missed two of the games due to injury), while Jordan scorched the Celtics for 39 PPG (on 55 percent shooting), including one 50-point outburst. Bird outscored Jordan twice in the games they played against each other: 33 (14-21) to 26 (10-18) and 44 to 39 (as noted above). They had another great shootout on January 12, 1988: Jordan won the scoring war 42 (19-35) to 38 (18-31), but the Celtics won the game 104-97

[pauk]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I am not saying Bird was better... i am just touching on the subject of raw skills.... i mean take a thorough look at Bird... he could literally do everything with the best of them inside and out.... post up, face up, any moves, hooks, jumphooks, left hand, right hand, runners, fades, underhand shots and other unorthodox/creative shots... ft shooting, midrange shooting, 3pt shooting... court vision, passing ability.... ballhandling for his size... playing different roles/positions... rebounding for his position/size... iq/intangibles/leadership.... basically all facits of the game, it all was comparable with the best of all time... but the difference is every player in NBA history had at least one weakness offensively or was just mediocre in some stuff.... but Larry Bird was premiere in every skill... can you say that about somebody else?

Its like if you created a player in NBA 2K13 with all 99 ratings... but forgot the athleticism part, imagine if he had that god given gift aswell?

[And1AllDay]

if were giving bird serious consideration is mike out of the top 5 at this point?

[Round Mound]

If Bird had Tom Chambers's Athletic Ability He Would Easily Be GOAT.

[Bawkish]

If Lebron had the clutchness of Jason Terry, he would've had 7 titles

[Axe]

If Lebron had the clutchness of Jason Terry, he would've had 7 titles
:oldlol:

[72-10]

If Bird had the lateral quickness of Marquis Teague he'd be 8-time All-Defensive instead of 2.

Actually, while Bird is the better shooter, it's very marginal - although Bird had one of the best forms on his shot and released his shot at the apex of his shooting form, and although he could shoot over double or triple teams with that type of form, and although he had a fallaway, it's not like Michael couldn't do all of these things just as or almost as well except for the form. Then in addition, Michael had a fadeaway, which Bird never developed, though this is probably due to his back problems. Bird might have shot the ball at a really high point in the form, but Michael got so much elevation with his legs on his jump shot that he was releasing the ball at roughly the same level off the ground despite the differences in body height, and so even with shots straight on at the basket, they stood roughly the same chances of being blocked or altered by the defense. Bird was better at shooting straight on at the basket, and Michael wasn't as good of a shooter in the 80s, but Michael consistently used and made a fadeaway in the 90s.

[72-10]

Bird is a better shooter, rebounder and passer than Michael.