Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

[knickballer]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bradley-manning-sentenced-35-years-leaking-secrets/story?id=20021288

Message to all the young kids out there. Don't **** with big brother or you'll end up like this guy

[falc39]

Snowden's decision to flee US completely justified now.

[MavsSuperFan]

Snowden's decision to flee US completely justified now.
Yup

Tell the truth = crimes. Modern America :facepalm

Bradley manning is a hero

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0
Collateral Murder video.

These soldiers that killed those innocent civilians were never punished. the guy that blew the whistle on their crimes is sentenced to 35 years.
:biggums:

Bush and Obama are both war criminals, and the only reason the Hague doesnt prosecute them is because they have a powerful army around them.

Edit: a soft guy like manning isnt going to survive in jail. he gonna get raped.

[DCL]

i remember an innocent time when america wasn't flushing itself down the toilet...

[KevinNYC]

First, your honor, I want to start off with an apology. I am sorry that my actions hurt people. I'm sorry that they hurt the United States.

At the time of my decisions, as you know, I was dealing with a lot of issues, issues that are ongoing and continuing to affect me. Although a considerable difficulty in my life, these issues are not an excuse for my actions.

I understood what I was doing, and decisions I made. However, I did not fully appreciate the broader effects of my actions.

Those factors are clear to me now, through both self-refection during my confinement in various forms, and through the merits and sentencing testimony that I have seen here.

I am sorry for the unintended consequences of my actions. When I made these decisions I believed I was going to help people, not hurt people.

The last few years have been a learning experience. I look back at my decisions and wonder how on earth could I, a junior analyst, possibly believe I could change the world for the better (unintelligible) on decisions of those with the proper authority.

In retrospect, I should have worked more aggressively inside the system, as we discussed during the provenance statement. I had options, and I should have used these options.

Unfortunately, I can't go back and change things. I can only go forward. I want to go forward. Before I can do that, I understand that I must pay a price for my decisions and actions.

Once I pay that price, I hope to one day live in a manner that I haven't been able to in the past. I want to be a better person, to go to college, to get a degree and to have a meaningful relationship with my sister, with my sister's family and my family.

I want to be a positive influence in their lives, just as my Aunt Debra has been to me. I have flaws and issues that I have to deal with, but I know that I can and will be a better person.

I hope that you can give me the opportunity to prove, not through words, but through conduct, that I am a good person and that I can return to a productive place in society. Thank you, your honor

Hopefully, Manning will be able to follow through and become a better person.

[Scholar]

This is complete and utter bullshit. I can't believe a man's entire life is about to go to waste while real threats to our country (aka our politicians) are still free men.

[MavsSuperFan]

Snowden's decision to flee US completely justified now.
I cant believe some people argued he should have stayed in America to face "Justice".

Even nixon didnt do this to whistleblowers. Think about it for a sec the supposedly liberal democratic president is doing something to whistleblowers even Nixon did do to Daniel Ellsberg when he released the pentagon papers


The Papers revealed that the U.S. had expanded its war with bombing of Cambodia and Laos, coastal raids on North Vietnam, and Marine Corps attacks, none of which had been reported by media in the US.[11] The most damaging revelations in the papers revealed that four administrations, from Truman to Johnson, had misled the public regarding their intentions. For example, the John F. Kennedy administration had planned to overthrow South Vietnamese leader Ngo Dinh Diem before his death in a November 1963 coup. President Johnson had decided to expand the war while promising "we seek no wider war" during his 1964 presidential campaign,[5] including plans to bomb North Vietnam well before the 1964 Election. President Johnson had been outspoken against doing so during the election and claimed that his opponent Barry Goldwater was the one that wanted to bomb North Vietnam.[12]

ellsberg was considered a hero once, look how far we have fallen as a nation

[MavsSuperFan]

Hopefully, Manning will be able to follow through and become a better person.
His releases embarrassed a few diplomats

no one yet has been able to give specifics about the people he hurt.

I guess he hurt those murderers who killed civilians in iraq, you know by letting people see the murder the pentagon wanted to cover up.

If you want manning to go to jail, I cant imagine what you would have wanted to do to ellsberg when he released the pentagon papers.

Honestly man is there anything the government can do that you wont defend?

[knickballer]

Hopefully, Manning will be able to follow through and become a better person.

I hope you go to prison to become a "better person" :facepalm

[Jameerthefear]

Wait can someone explain this to me?

[MavsSuperFan]

Hopefully, Manning will be able to follow through and become a better person.
That message was so coerced.

they tortured manning before the charged him with anything

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-manning-cruel-inhuman-treatment-un


The UN special rapporteur on torture has formally accused the US government of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment towards Bradley Manning, the US soldier who was held in solitary confinement for almost a year on suspicion of being the WikiLeaks source.

Juan Mendez has completed a 14-month investigation into the treatment of Manning since the soldier's arrest at a US military base in May 2010. He concludes that the US military was at least culpable of cruel and inhumane treatment in keeping Manning locked up alone for 23 hours a day over an 11-month period in conditions that he also found might have constituted torture.

"The special rapporteur concludes that imposing seriously punitive conditions of detention on someone who has not been found guilty of any crime is a violation of his right to physical and psychological integrity as well as of his presumption of innocence," Mendez writes.

The findings of cruel and inhuman treatment are published as an addendum to the special rapporteur's report to the UN general assembly on the promotion and protection of human rights. They are likely to reignite criticism of the US government's harsh treatment of Manning ahead of his court martial later this year.

Manning, 24, was arrested on May 29 2010 at the Forward Operating Base Hammer outside Baghdad, where he was working as an intelligence analyst. Manning has been charged with 22 counts, including aiding the enemy, relating to the leaking a massive trove of state secrets to the whistleblowing website WikiLeaks.

Mendez, who runs the UN office that investigates incidents of alleged torture around the world, told the Guardian: "I conclude that the 11 months under conditions of solitary confinement (regardless of the name given to his regime by the prison authorities) constitutes at a minimum cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment in violation of article 16 of the convention against torture. If the effects in regards to pain and suffering inflicted on Manning were more severe, they could constitute torture."

Manning was initially held for almost three months at Camp Arifjan in Kuwait, and then transferred in July 2010 to the Marine corps base at Quantico in Virginia. He was held there for another eight months in conditions that aroused widespread condemnation, including being held in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day and being made to strip naked at night.

In his opening letter to the US government on December 30 2010, Mendez said that the prolonged period of isolated confinment was believed to have been imposed "in an effort to coerce him into 'cooperation' with the authorities, allegedly for the purpose of persuading him to implicate others."

It is known that the US department of justice is conducting a grand jury in Virginia exploring the possibility of bringing charges against Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks founder.

The US mission to the UN in Geneva responded to Mendez on January 27 2011. It said that the US government "is committed to protecting human rights in our country and abroad, and we value the work of the special rapporteur".

In a later letter, dated May 19 2011, the Pentagon's legal counsel told Mendez that it was satisfied that Manning's treatment at Quantico had been fine. "Though Private Manning was classified as a maximum custody detainee at Quantico, he occupied the very same type of single-occupancy cell that all other pretrial detainees occupied."

But the Pentagon's arguments did not impress the special rapporteur. He stressed in his final conclusions that "solitary confinement is a harsh measure which may cause serious psychological and physiological adverse effects on individuals regardless of their specific conditions." Moreover, "[d]epending on the specific reason for its application, conditions, length, effects and other circumstances, solitary confinement can amount to a breach of article seven of the international covenant on civil and political rights, and to an act defined in article one or article 16 of the convention against torture."

He also said that the US government had tried to justify Manning's solitary confinement by calling it "prevention of harm watch". Yet the military had offered no details as to what actual harm was being prevented.

Mendez told the Guardian that he could not reach a definitive conclusion on whether Manning had been tortured because he has consistently been denied permission by the US military to interview the prisoner under acceptable circumstances.

The Pentagon has refused to allow Mendez to see Manning in private, insisting that all conversations must be monitored. "You should have no expectation of privacy in your communications with Private Manning," the Pentagon wrote.

The lack of privacy is a violation of human rights procedures, the UN says, and considered unacceptable by the UN special rapporteur.

Manning's travails in solitary confinement came to an end on April 20 2011 when he was transferred from Quantico to Fort Leavenworth in Kansas, where he was held in more open conditions. He is currently being held in a facility in Virginia so that he can make frequent pre-trial appearances at Fort Meade in Maryland ahead of his eventual court martial.

[DCL]

punishing citizens who dare to speak the truth against the government for its wrongdoings is something you'd expect from a bullshit state like f..king north korea...

[MavsSuperFan]

Wait can someone explain this to me?

basically bradley manning saw this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0

and he tried to get someone in the military to prosecute this atrocity. Everyone being killed were civilians. They also shot at the people that went to try to save the dying victims, kill a father and his 2 kids.

The pentagon refused to do anything. Manning tried to get American news outlets like the NY times to publish the story, they refused. Eventually he was forced to release the info to wikileaks. The government was embarrassed and wanted to make an example out him, so that nobody would ever have the courage to blow the whistle on their crimes in the future.

Bradley Manning Uncovered U.S. Torture, Abuse, Soldiers Laughing As They Killed Innocent Civilians
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/bradley-manning-leaks_n_3788126.html

read that report to see all the stuff he exposed that our government was trying to hide. Basically the government is punishing him for exposing their crimes. Punish the whistleblower ignore the crimes being exposed = modern American government.


1. The 'Collateral Murder' Apache helicopter video
Manning released this graphic video of a U.S. Apache helicopter attack on a group of people gathered in Baghdad. Two were employees of the Reuters news agency. A member of the helicopter crew refers to the "dead bastards" he killed, and the crew lights up a passing van that stopped to help victims of the first round of gunfire.

2. The Reykjavik-13 cable
Far less known than the Apache video was this classified 2010 cable from the U.S. Embassy in Reykjavik released on Feb. 18, 2010. The first of Manning's leaks to be published, it caused an immediate sensation in Iceland for its frank discussion of U.S. indifference toward problems in the small island nation's banking sector.

3. The Iraq War Logs

4. The Afghanistan War Logs

5. Detention, abuse and torture
Manning's leaks included more than 700 Guantanamo detainee files, many revealing that the U.S. had little reason to continue holding its prisoners. The 250,000 State Department cables he leaked detailed U.S. diplomatic pressure on foreign countries to ignore or excuse extraordinary renditions carried out by the CIA in apparent violation of international law. They also showed that the U.S. routinely failed to investigate reports of prisoner abuse and summary execution by the Iraqi military.

6. U.S. complicity with repressive Arab regimes
It was no surprise to many living in the Arab world that the United States routinely collaborated with Arab dictators behind closed doors while proclaiming its commitment to democracy in public. Manning's leaks of sensitive State Department cables, however, laid bare the American hypocrisy in the Middle East. By some accounts, they served as a catalyst for the regime changes around the region that would come to be known as the Arab Spring.

The only thing manning did wrong was not running as far and as fast as he could, like snowden.

[KevinNYC]

Even nixon didnt do this to whistleblowers. Think about it for a sec the supposedly liberal democratic president is doing something to whistleblowers even Nixon did do to Daniel Ellsberg when he released the pentagon papers

You don't know the history of the Ellsberg case do you?

[longtime lurker]

SMH. I doubt this guy will survive in prison. Couldn't he have gotten something ridiculous like 200 years?

[knickballer]

SMH. I doubt this guy will survive in prison. Couldn't he have gotten something ridiculous like 200 years?

I heard he was originally up for 90 years and they brought it down to 65 then 35. He got less time because the judges agreed he put no american lives in danger.

[MavsSuperFan]

You don't know the history of the Ellsberg case do you?
I know a lot about it. He was never treated like Manning and he revealed far more sensitive information.

[Jailblazers7]

Hopefully, Manning will be able to follow through and become a better person.

That statement sounds like someone already preparing for his first parole hearing.

[FreezingTsmoove]

I know a lot about it. He was never treated like Manning and he revealed far more sensitive information.

Sensitive information about a war Americans wanted to move on from and forget. People knew the Vietnam war was horrible, and pointless (from their POV). Bradley revealed sensitive info about a war that people quite frankly don't give a shit about compared to back in the day, where there were rallies all over the place to bring our soldiers home. Ellsburg was backed by his fellow Americans. I hope that todays society and social media can help back up Manning and get him out of jail.

[niko]

He didn't realize this would be the outcome of what he was doing? He leaked government secrets, you are going to jail. You don't get to pick and choose which laws you follow and you which you don't. I feel bad for him but didn't he commit the crime of which he's going to jail for?

[KevinNYC]

If you think Manning's sole motivation was heroic, you're wrong. Revenge was one of his big motivations as well. Which is why he didn't just release information on wrongdoing, but grabbed everything he could steal, because he was in a ****ed up place and hated the army. He released tons of shit he never even looked at.

He was in a ****ed up place for a lot of reasons, but probably the biggest was he feels he was born a woman (I can't imagine what living with that in the army must be like) and just broken up with his first boyfriend. Even he was discovered as the leaker, he was going to be discharged from the army because he punched a female soldier in the face. Even before he joined the Army he pulled a knife on his stepmother.

So he had a lot of issues going on and in addition, he realized he hated being in the Army and felt the War he was part of was unjustified.

If you think Manning was a cut and dried hero, you're wrong. You're denying him his complications, his flaws and his essential humanity if you prefer the cardboard version of him. His courtroom statement to me reads like someone who has spent some time thinking about what he did and why and honestly regrets the choices he made. If you want to read more about Manning, I recommend this.

http://nymag.com/news/features/bradley-manning-2011-7/

Yes, Manning exposed wrongdoing. He also committed a bunch too. I feel sorry for the kid.

[ZenMaster]

If you think Manning's sole motivation was heroic, you're wrong. Revenge was one of his big motivations as well. Which is why he didn't just release information on wrongdoing, but grabbed everything he could steal, because he was in a ****ed up place and hated the army. He released tons of shit he never even looked at.

He was in a ****ed up place for a lot of reasons, but probably the biggest was he feels he was born a woman (I can't imagine what living with that in the army must be like) and just broken up with his first boyfriend. Even he was discovered as the leaker, he was going to be discharged from the army because he punched a female soldier in the face. Even before he joined the Army he pulled a knife on his stepmother.

So he had a lot of issues going on and in addition, he realized he hated being in the Army and felt the War he was part of was unjustified.

If you think Manning was a cut and dried hero, you're wrong. You're denying him his complications, his flaws and his essential humanity if you prefer the cardboard version of him. His courtroom statement to me reads like someone who has spent some time thinking about what he did and why and honestly regrets the choices he made. If you want to read more about Manning, I recommend this.

http://nymag.com/news/features/bradley-manning-2011-7/

Yes, Manning exposed wrongdoing. He also committed a bunch too. I feel sorry for the kid.

This doesn't matter one bit whatsoever, him becomming a potential transvestit is so unimportant in the whole scenario.

He whistled on crimes being kept secret by the US government, but he himself is the one to get convicted, that's what matters.

[KevinNYC]

Ellsberg was a civilian when he leaked the Pentagon Papers and Manning was an active-duty soldier. Ellsberg also was indicted and was facing something like 110 if he was found guilty, so the "even Nixon" bullshit is simply bullshit.

[KevinNYC]

This doesn't matter one bit whatsoever, him becomming a potential transvestit is so unimportant in the whole scenario.

He whistled on crimes being kept secret by the US government, but he himself is the one to get convicted, that's what matters.

He was transgender/transexual not a transvestite. He didn't merely want to dress in women's clothes (some men who do that are completely straight) he was looking into hormone therapy and sexual reassignment surgery. It would not have mattered, if it wasn't the cause of great stress in his life. Several of his fellow soldiers thought he was near a breakdown. Manning himself has described how deeply unhappy he was. Again this is guy who pulled a knife on his stepmother and punched a female solider in the face, if he was thinking clearly, he could have thought more clearly about the consequences of his actions. Remember he plead guilty to multiple crimes. Crimes he had taken oathes to uphold multiple times.

[knickballer]

If you think Manning's sole motivation was heroic, you're wrong. Revenge was one of his big motivations as well. Which is why he didn't just release information on wrongdoing, but grabbed everything he could steal, because he was in a ****ed up place and hated the army. He released tons of shit he never even looked at.

He was in a ****ed up place for a lot of reasons, but probably the biggest was he feels he was born a woman (I can't imagine what living with that in the army must be like) and just broken up with his first boyfriend. Even he was discovered as the leaker, he was going to be discharged from the army because he punched a female soldier in the face. Even before he joined the Army he pulled a knife on his stepmother.

So he had a lot of issues going on and in addition, he realized he hated being in the Army and felt the War he was part of was unjustified.

If you think Manning was a cut and dried hero, you're wrong. You're denying him his complications, his flaws and his essential humanity if you prefer the cardboard version of him. His courtroom statement to me reads like someone who has spent some time thinking about what he did and why and honestly regrets the choices he made. If you want to read more about Manning, I recommend this.

http://nymag.com/news/features/bradley-manning-2011-7/

Yes, Manning exposed wrongdoing. He also committed a bunch too. I feel sorry for the kid.


He was transgender/transexual not a transvestite. He didn't merely want to dress in women's clothes (some men who do that are completely straight) he was looking into hormone therapy and sexual reassignment surgery. It would not have mattered, if it wasn't the cause of great stress in his life. Several of his fellow soldiers thought he was near a breakdown. Manning himself has described how deeply unhappy he was. Again this is guy who pulled a knife on his stepmother and punched a female solider in the face, if he was thinking clearly, he could have thought more clearly about the consequences of his actions. Remember he plead guilty to multiple crimes. Crimes he had taken oathes to uphold multiple times.


Typical KevinNYC post. You always seem to go on an ad hominem attack on the person if you disagree with them/their actions.. You try to discredit the guy and try to make him look guilty by digging up scandalous dirt on him. Newsflash this isn't E! or some celebrity gossip magazine, we don't give a shit if he thought he was a woman or if he likes men..

Him being a transgender and private details about his life isn't relevant to the case on hand. Him being a transgender doesn't change the fact that US soldiers were massacring some civillians.

You're basically saying he should go to jail because he was a transgender which is SAD

[ZenMaster]

He was transgender/transexual not a transvestite. He didn't merely want to dress in women's clothes (some men who do that are completely straight) he was looking into hormone therapy and sexual reassignment surgery. It would not have mattered, if it wasn't the cause of great stress in his life. Several of his fellow soldiers thought he was near a breakdown. Manning himself has described how deeply unhappy he was. Again this is guy who pulled a knife on his stepmother and punched a female solider in the face, if he was thinking clearly, he could have thought more clearly about the consequences of his actions. Remember he plead guilty to multiple crimes. Crimes he had taken oathes to uphold multiple times.

Again, it just doesn't matter what his motives where, what matters is that a bunch of BS that the US government tried to keep secret was exposed. Him punching another soldier in the face doesn't make the guy laughing in the video saying he just killed a bunch of bastards any better.

Smear campaign against the guy wont work, because what he revelead was the truth taken from documents hidden from the general public. We aren't taking his word for these things, only what we see from the documents and videos released because of him.

[millwad]

He was transgender/transexual not a transvestite. He didn't merely want to dress in women's clothes (some men who do that are completely straight) he was looking into hormone therapy and sexual reassignment surgery. It would not have mattered, if it wasn't the cause of great stress in his life. Several of his fellow soldiers thought he was near a breakdown. Manning himself has described how deeply unhappy he was. Again this is guy who pulled a knife on his stepmother and punched a female solider in the face, if he was thinking clearly, he could have thought more clearly about the consequences of his actions. Remember he plead guilty to multiple crimes. Crimes he had taken oathes to uphold multiple times.

Maybe you like to seem semi-retarded but I hope that you realize that none of above made a difference at all in terms of the sentence he got.

[aj1987]

kill a father and his 2 kids.

Fortunately, the kids didn't die.

[KevinNYC]

Typical KevinNYC post. You always seem to go on an ad hominem attack on the person if you disagree with them/their actions.. You try to discredit the guy and try to make him look guilty by digging up scandalous dirt on him. Newsflash this isn't E! or some celebrity gossip magazine, we don't give a shit if he thought he was a woman or if he likes men..

Him being a transgender and private details about his life isn't relevant to the case on hand. Him being a transgender doesn't change the fact that US soldiers were massacring some civillians.

You're basically saying he should go to jail because he was a transgender which is SAD

No, I'm saying he should go to jail because he clearly committed serious crimes, crimes that he plead guilty too. Just because someone did something worse doesn't change that. He's guilty.

As for him being transgender, I do think it's relevant. This is a perfect post about denying Bradley Manning his contradictions and his humanity. You think the fact he feels he is a woman is scandalous and dirty. You claim I think he should go to jail because he was transgender. No. I think his being transgender in the army was a source of enormous psychological stress that contributed to his not thinking straight. If you can't see the empathy in my earlier statement, that's on you. It's also the same argument that Manning lawyers used in his defense.

[KevinNYC]

Maybe you like to seem semi-retarded but I hope that you realize that none of above made a difference at all in terms of the sentence he got.Again, Manning's lawyers brought his mental state and his gender dysmorphia during the sentencing phase of his trial.


Defense lawyer David Coombs portrayed Manning as a well-intentioned but isolated soldier with gender identification issues, and he asked Lind to impose “a sentence that allows him to have a life.”

Manning's lawyer is a good one and there a reason he brought up Manning's mental state.The prosecutors were asking for 60 years. The judge gave him 35.

[KevinNYC]

I recommend this book if want to know more about the day the two journalists died.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Good-Soldiers-David-Finkel/dp/B003ZK50U2

[RidonKs]

Remember he plead guilty to multiple crimes. Crimes he had taken oathes to uphold multiple times.
this isn't exactly true. the only crime he plead guilty to without stipulation was "wrongfully classifying stored information", which carries a sentence of two years.

the main guilty plea he offered to the prosecution was a limited version of the espionage act. in case people aren't already familiar, this is the law that the obama administration has used to charge twice as many americans as every other president before him combined.

anyway, manning was charged on seven counts of the espionage act. to be found guilty under the espionage act, they have to prove six things. manning plead guilty to a limited version of the charge because there was no way in hell he was going accept two of those six things.

the two conditions he definitely did not plead guilty to are at the very heart of the case, and in fact are all anybody in the public or the media ever bother bringing up.

a) that his leak was directly related to national defense
b) that he had reason to believe that his leak could injure the united states or benefit some other nation


bear in mind, the difference between the sentence of the full charge and the limited charge isn't beans. it's actually a difference of 56 years. and that's just the espionage charges, he plead for lesser counts of other offenses too.

[MavsSuperFan]

If you think Manning's sole motivation was heroic, you're wrong. Revenge was one of his big motivations as well. Which is why he didn't just release information on wrongdoing, but grabbed everything he could steal, because he was in a ****ed up place and hated the army. He released tons of shit he never even looked at.

He was in a ****ed up place for a lot of reasons, but probably the biggest was he feels he was born a woman (I can't imagine what living with that in the army must be like) and just broken up with his first boyfriend. Even he was discovered as the leaker, he was going to be discharged from the army because he punched a female soldier in the face. Even before he joined the Army he pulled a knife on his stepmother.

So he had a lot of issues going on and in addition, he realized he hated being in the Army and felt the War he was part of was unjustified.

If you think Manning was a cut and dried hero, you're wrong. You're denying him his complications, his flaws and his essential humanity if you prefer the cardboard version of him. His courtroom statement to me reads like someone who has spent some time thinking about what he did and why and honestly regrets the choices he made. If you want to read more about Manning, I recommend this.

http://nymag.com/news/features/bradley-manning-2011-7/

Yes, Manning exposed wrongdoing. He also committed a bunch too. I feel sorry for the kid.

Specifically what was the damage to the US that was done by his releases?
Who specifically died because of his release of information?
Why is it that the whistleblower is convicted to 35 years and the crimes he exposed aren't fixed and the people who committed those crimes not punished?
Why does it matter if he was transgender?

His courtroom statements are of a man trying to beg for his life and admit guilt because he has been broken by a year of what many people consider torture. Eg solitary confinement for 23 hours a day and forced strip naked in a and sleep naked in a cold cell.

Once again no one in the Obama administration or the American government has been able to identify anyone hurt by manning's leaks. The only damage has been that manning exposed the fact that our diplomats are gossipy little girls and that they spy on our "allies". Where is the Valerie plame that was exposed by robert novack?

Where is the kill lists that the obama administration disclosed in order to brag about how tough he was?

[MavsSuperFan]

Fortunately, the kids didn't die.
Nice, good news on a day with terrible news.

Its so sad nothing ever happened to the person that shot at them.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

shoot up an entire army base, killing several soldiers and this scum gets 35 years? the legal system is a joke.

[MavsSuperFan]

No, I'm saying he should go to jail because he clearly committed serious crimes, crimes that he plead guilty too. Just because someone did something worse doesn't change that. He's guilty.

As for him being transgender, I do think it's relevant. This is a perfect post about denying Bradley Manning his contradictions and his humanity. You think the fact he feels he is a woman is scandalous and dirty. You claim I think he should go to jail because he was transgender. No. I think his being transgender in the army was a source of enormous psychological stress that contributed to his not thinking straight. If you can't see the empathy in my earlier statement, that's on you. It's also the same argument that Manning lawyers used in his defense.

His crimes were disclosing the truth about lies that the american government were trying to hide. Also why is he the only one that is being punished? Are you not outraged that the people in the collateral murder video are never going to be sentenced to anything?

How about the fact that he exposed the fact that the government is holding about 700 people in gitmo with basically no evidence?

Should soldiers follow orders no matter what? Were Nazi SS and Imperial Japanese soldiers correct in following orders unquestioningly?


Ellsberg was a civilian when he leaked the Pentagon Papers and Manning was an active-duty soldier. Ellsberg also was indicted and was facing something like 110 if he was found guilty, so the "even Nixon" bullshit is simply bullshit.
Ellsberg released far more operationally sensitive information.


The Papers revealed that the U.S. had expanded its war with bombing of Cambodia and Laos, coastal raids on North Vietnam, and Marine Corps attacks, none of which had been reported by media in the US.[11] The most damaging revelations in the papers revealed that four administrations, from Truman to Johnson, had misled the public regarding their intentions. For example, the John F. Kennedy administration had planned to overthrow South Vietnamese leader Ngo Dinh Diem before his death in a November 1963 coup. President Johnson had decided to expand the war while promising "we seek no wider war" during his 1964 presidential campaign,[5] including plans to bomb North Vietnam well before the 1964 Election. President Johnson had been outspoken against doing so during the election and claimed that his opponent Barry Goldwater was the one that wanted to bomb North Vietnam.[12
Ellsberg never spent a day in jail, he was considered a hero by liberals. I guess because Obama is president now liberals have changed their values. Well I am one liberal who hasn't this was wrong under bush and it is still wrong under obama.

There is so much positives to the information Manning disclosed

- The collateral murder video where soldiers kill civilians from an apache gunship, and then shooting at first responders that go and try to save the victims.
-The pentagon had always publically claimed that they did not keep track of civilian
however:

As part of his work as an Army intelligence analyst, Manning had access to a wealth of sensitive Army documents about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Called SIGACTS (significant activities), in military parlance, they detailed nighttime raids and improvised explosives attacks with intimate on-the-ground reports from U.S. troops.

Manning gave WikiLeaks nearly 400,000 SIGACTS from Iraq. They were published in October 2010. The Pentagon had always maintained that it did not keep track of civilian casualties in Iraq, but the independent Iraq Body Count website used the SIGACTS to confirm and update its count of deaths in the conflict.
As of this month, the Iraq Body Count's Josh Dougherty related, the organization had added 4,000 deaths to its database as a result of Manning's leaks and was likely to add another 10,000.
"These and thousands of others like them are known to the world today only because Bradley Manning could no longer in good conscience collude with an official policy of the Bush and Obama administrations to abuse secrecy and 'national security' to erase them from history," Dougherty wrote on the group's website. "If Manning deserves any punishment at all for this, certainly his three years already served, and the disgraceful abuse he was made to suffer during it, is more than enough."
proving that the pentagon were liars. Same is true for afghanistan
-Manning's leaks included more than 700 Guantanamo detainee files, many revealing that the U.S. had little reason to continue holding its prisoners. The 250,000 State Department cables he leaked detailed U.S. diplomatic pressure on foreign countries to ignore or excuse extraordinary renditions carried out by the CIA in apparent violation of international law. They also showed that the U.S. routinely failed to investigate reports of prisoner abuse and summary execution by the Iraqi military.
-US support for arab dictatorships leading to the arab spring.
-US government indifference towards the banking crisis in Iceland

Name one person or US operation that has been compromised by Manning's leaks? Information gets leaked all the time. Novak leaked Plame's identity? is he in jail? Scooter libby and dick cheney were also apart of that leak are they in jail? Obama administration leaked the existence of the CIA kill list in order to make obama seem tough on terrorism before the 2012 election, has anyone gone to jail?

Why is it that manning's leaks are being punished so harshly? You really think it has nothing to do with the government wanting revenge for their crimes being exposed?

[KevinNYC]

shoot up an entire army base, killing several soldiers and this scum gets 35 years? the legal system is a joke.

You're thinking of someone else.

[KevinNYC]

this isn't exactly true. the only crime he plead guilty to without stipulation was "wrongfully classifying stored information", which carries a sentence of two years.
So he could have faced 20 years on these charges alone. I find that serious.


the main guilty plea he offered to the prosecution was a limited version of the espionage act. in case people aren't already familiar, this is the law that the obama administration has used to charge twice as many americans as every other president before him combined.

anyway, manning was charged on seven counts of the espionage act. to be found guilty under the espionage act, they have to prove six things. manning plead guilty to a limited version of the charge because there was no way in hell he was going accept two of those six things.

Do you have a link to the actual charges? Wikipedia just says this.
On July 30, 2013, Judge Lind issued her findings regarding the charges. Manning was acquitted of aiding the enemy by knowingly giving out intelligence through indirect means and convicted of 19 of the 21 or 22 specified charges, including theft and six counts of espionage.

[miller-time]

Should soldiers follow orders no matter what? Were Nazi SS and Imperial Japanese soldiers correct in following orders unquestioningly?

According to Milgram, maybe. Alleviation of responsibility and belief in authority tend to be conducive of immoral behavior.

[reppy]

Journalists are allowed to "leak" all the time -- when it benefits the administration in power. The letter of the law does not apply to the elite.

[COnDEMnED]

Hopefully Snowden lives long enough to give enough evidence to have Obama impeached. I imagine Snowden mysteriously dies within the next year...Seal Team 6 style.

...people wanted change... they got it. Vote smarter next time people.

[iamgine]

People don't care as long as it doesn't affect them. No one wants to take on a cause and be prosecuted for it. Venting on the internet is enough.

[KevinNYC]

Specifically what was the damage to the US that was done by his releases?
Who specifically died because of his release of information?
Why is it that the whistleblower is convicted to 35 years and the crimes he exposed aren't fixed and the people who committed those crimes not punished?
Why does it matter if he was transgender?

His courtroom statements are of a man trying to beg for his life and admit guilt because he has been broken by a year of what many people consider torture. Eg solitary confinement for 23 hours a day and forced strip naked in a and sleep naked in a cold cell.

Once again no one in the Obama administration or the American government has been able to identify anyone hurt by manning's leaks. The only damage has been that manning exposed the fact that our diplomats are gossipy little girls and that they spy on our "allies". Where is the Valerie plame that was exposed by robert novack?

Where is the kill lists that the obama administration disclosed in order to brag about how tough he was?

He did at the very minimum 6.2 million dollars worth of damage.

Dismissing his statement at trial is again, dismissing his agency. He said something you disagree with, therefore, he must not mean it. It's only because he broken.

Anyhow, he knowingly broke several laws he took an oath to uphold. The judge who dismissed the prosecution's strongest assertion, that the Taliban killed someone who was working with the US based on the wikileaks material, still felt his crimes were sufficent to merit a sentence of 35 years.

In short, I don't want a 22 year-old private making foreign policy and deciding upon his own authority to release 700,000 documents.

Your Valerie Plame analogy doesn't really work as she didn't die either and the Robert Novak in this case is Julian Assange, the outsider, not the insider with security clearances.

[KevinNYC]

Journalists are allowed to "leak" all the time -- when it benefits the administration in power. The letter of the law does not apply to the elite.

Journalists don't leak. They are the recipient of leaks.

However, you're correct, they have been several leaks recently favorable to the administration and they will not be prosecuted.

[KevinNYC]

Hopefully Snowden lives long enough to give enough evidence to have Obama impeached. I imagine Snowden mysteriously dies within the next year...Seal Team 6 style.

...people wanted change... they got it. Vote smarter next time people.

:roll:

Book it here.
Snowden is going permanently defect and Julian Assange will move on the next person he can convince to throw his life his away.

[daily]

He didn't realize this would be the outcome of what he was doing? He leaked government secrets, you are going to jail. You don't get to pick and choose which laws you follow and you which you don't. I feel bad for him but didn't he commit the crime of which he's going to jail for?yep.

People saying what he leaked didn't hurt people are missing the point. He leaked classified government information. This is not a gray area that some classified information is ok to leak as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

[RidonKs]

here's a terrific graphic detailing the verdict (http://www.alexaobrien.com/verdict.html)

that comes from Alexa O'brien, whose been covering the trial since it began. her archive for the trial is sorta legalistic but pretty clear and at least you know you're getting the facts.


i should also note, and i didn't realize this until i just went ever it, the prosecution did fail to get an espionage charge to stick... it was the only one Manning's defense refused to enter a reduced plea for, the Granai Airstrike in Afghanistan that killed ~100 ppl. i'm not exactly sure what the difference is between that and say the logs or the diary and i'm too tired to try and figure it out.



So he could have faced 20 years on these charges alone. I find that serious.
well it's serious if you take it at face value and don't evaluate its grounding as well as its implications. 20 years... on what charges? those he plead guilty to? you're the one emphasizing the humanity of the Bradley Manning that leaked the documents. at the same time it only makes sense to emphasize the humanity of the Bradley Manning that is currently standing trial... obviously in an even more confusing and overwhelming position than he was when he stabbed his stepmom or solicited online dates or whatever he did according to that nymag article you posted.

his back is totally up against the wall. he's been maliciously subjected to abuse by guards... highly sexual and humiliating abuse actually, even worse given his background. he's up against the most overwhelmingly powerful institution in the world, in a military courtroom that at least his defense would claim totally biased -- biggest complaints being totally ignoring motive (a factor you ironically brought up in this thread) and using 'potential harm' for the trial and relegating provable harm to the sentencing part. another facotr that comes into play is the concealed nature of the trial itself -- there have been claims that the judge would have felt pressure to treat the whole debacle entirely differently had it been totally open to public access.

of course there was no expectation for complete exoneration, the entire deck was stacked against him. his defense has been playing a violin with its teeth just trying for anything that might work. at least thats my reading.

[MavsSuperFan]

However, you're correct, they have been several leaks recently favorable to the administration and they will not be prosecuted.

That doesn't seem hypocritical to you?

He did at the very minimum 6.2 million dollars worth of damage.

please give me a source for this


Dismissing his statement at trial is again, dismissing his agency. He said something you disagree with, therefore, he must not mean it. It's only because he broken.


You think its ok to hold a person for 3 years and 9 months of which were in solitary confinement, 23 hours a day? Making them strip naked and sleep naked in a cold cell and all before being convicted of anything?

The sixth amendment

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

3 years is speed to you?

please state the name of the person harmed by Manning's leaks, or admit that the prosecution could not prove in court any specific american had been hurt by manning's leaks.


In short, I don't want a 22 year-old private making foreign policy and deciding upon his own authority to release 700,000 documents.

But you are ok with the 50+ year olds in the US government holding people indefinitely at gitmo on almost no evidence, the pentagon hiding civilian casualty figures (explain how that is operationally sensitive), the military refusing to prosecute the perpetrators of the collateral murder video. All of which Manning's leaks exposed. None of which will ever be punished.

Where is the outrage at those crimes?


yep.

People saying what he leaked didn't hurt people are missing the point. He leaked classified government information. This is not a gray area that some classified information is ok to leak as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.
Ok, i think he has already suffered enough and the stuff he leaked had a lot of benefits in informing the American public about our government. We are not supposed to a nation where the government keeps everything a secret from our citizens. We are not supposed to be north korea. What is the problem with Americans knowing that we dont have any evidence on most of the detainees in gitmo? What is the problem with Americans knowing that the pentagon has hid the fact that they keep track of civilian casualty figures? What is the problem with Americans seeing video tape of American soldiers killing iraqi civilians (is seeing it the offensive part)?

But lets for the sake of argument assume he deserves his sentence. Why isnt dick cheney and scooter libby in jail for disclosing Plame's identity? Why isnt the administration official that disclosed the CIA's kill list in jail? Why is it ok for the administration to leak political favorable classified information, but not ok to leak politically unfavorable information?

[KevinNYC]

So the specific section of espionage act is this
Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or
control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch,
photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model,
instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or
information relating to the national defense which information the
possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the
United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully
communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated,
delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver,
transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the
same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains
the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the
United States entitled to receive it;

[falc39]

KevinNYC, it's one thing to pick sides (and you choose the one pretty much everyone would expect you to), but to try to play both and feign empathy here when clearly you show by your posts that you don't have any for him is a bit much. You're the only poster here that I can imagine who would defend and cheer if he got a harsher sentence like 60 years to life. And the fact that you turn a blind eye and ignore discussion to stuff like when he was tortured just makes your empathy come off as really fake, man.


I cant believe some people argued he should have stayed in America to face "Justice".


I know, huh? Given a choice: get tortured and spend most of your life in jail, or not get tortured and not spend most of your life in jail... who would in their right mind choose the former option? And nope, choosing the latter option does not make you a traitor, it means you are sensible and not out of your ****ing mind.

[falc39]

Supposedly this is Bradley Manning's pardon letter to Obama:


The decisions that I made in 2010 were made out of a concern for my country and the world that we live in. Since the tragic events of 9/11, our country has been at war. We’ve been at war with an enemy that chooses not to meet us on any traditional battlefield, and due to this fact we’ve had to alter our methods of combating the risks posed to us and our way of life.

I initially agreed with these methods and chose to volunteer to help defend my country. It was not until I was in Iraq and reading secret military reports on a daily basis that I started to question the morality of what we were doing. It was at this time I realized that (in) our efforts to meet the risk posed to us by the enemy, we have forgotten our humanity. We consciously elected to devalue human life both in Iraq and Afghanistan. When we engaged those that we perceived were the enemy, we sometimes killed innocent civilians. Whenever we killed innocent civilians, instead of accepting responsibility for our conduct, we elected to hide behind the veil of national security and classified information in order to avoid any public accountability.

In our zeal to kill the enemy, we internally debated the definition of torture. We held individuals at Guantanamo for years without due process. We inexplicably turned a blind eye to torture and executions by the Iraqi government. And we stomached countless other acts in the name of our war on terror.

Patriotism is often the cry extolled when morally questionable acts are advocated by those in power. When these cries of patriotism drown out any logically based dissension, it is usually the American soldier that is given the order to carry out some ill-conceived mission.

Our nation has had similar dark moments for the virtues of democracy — the Trail of Tears, the Dred Scott decision, McCarthyism, and the Japanese-American internment camps — to mention a few. I am confident that many of the actions since 9/11 will one day be viewed in a similar light.

As the late Howard Zinn once said, “There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.”

I understand that my actions violated the law; I regret if my actions hurt anyone or harmed the United States. It was never my intent to hurt anyone. I only wanted to help people. When I chose to disclose classified information, I did so out of a love for my country and a sense of duty to others.

If you deny my request for a pardon, I will serve my time knowing that sometimes you have to pay a heavy price to live in a free society. I will gladly pay that price if it means we could have a country that is truly conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all women and men are created equal.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/text-of-bradley-mannings-letter-to-president-requesting-pardon/2013/08/21/b6ae28b4-0ab5-11e3-89fe-abb4a5067014_story.html

[KevinNYC]

That doesn't seem hypocritical to you?

please give me a source for this

You think its ok to hold a person for 3 years and 9 months of which were in solitary confinement, 23 hours a day? Making them strip naked and sleep naked in a cold cell and all before being convicted of anything?

The sixth amendment


3 years is speed to you?

please state the name of the person harmed by Manning's leaks, or admit that the prosecution could not prove in court any specific american had been hurt by manning's leaks.



But you are ok with the 50+ year olds in the US government holding people indefinitely at gitmo on almost no evidence, the pentagon hiding civilian casualty figures (explain how that is operationally sensitive), the military refusing to prosecute the perpetrators of the collateral murder video. All of which Manning's leaks exposed. None of which will ever be punished.

Where is the outrage at those crimes?


Ok, i think he has already suffered enough and the stuff he leaked had a lot of benefits in informing the American public about our government. We are not supposed to a nation where the government keeps everything a secret from our citizens. We are not supposed to be north korea. What is the problem with Americans knowing that we dont have any evidence on most of the detainees in gitmo? What is the problem with Americans knowing that the pentagon has hid the fact that they keep track of civilian casualty figures? What is the problem with Americans seeing video tape of American soldiers killing iraqi civilians (is seeing it the offensive part)?

But lets for the sake of argument assume he deserves his sentence. Why isnt dick cheney and scooter libby in jail for disclosing Plame's identity? Why isnt the administration official that disclosed the CIA's kill list in jail? Why is it ok for the administration to leak political favorable classified information, but not ok to leak politically unfavorable information?

Hypocritical. Yes, but not surprising.

6.3 million dollars is how much they just investigating the damage Manning did. I'm sure a lot more was spent actually changing practices and methods througout the military and the state Department. One reason Manning was able to get so much material, was security information used to be siloed, security was greater, but the downside it made it much harder for analysts to get the information they needed. After 9/11 they recommended much more openness and information sharing, this has had a lot of benefits of getting useful information back to the front lines quicker. After Manning, they had to start putting walls back up.

I never said one thing about how long Manning was held or his conditions.

Manning was in protective custody/solitary because he was considered a danger to himself, after he fashioned a noose while in custody in Iraq. When he told his guards he could very well choke himself with his underwear they took his clothes away at night.

As for "the perpetrators of the collateral murder video" even Manning believed that was an accident. He was upset that the government was keeping the video from Reuters and the comments of the pilots, but didn't think it was cold blooded murder.

GTFO with North Korea.

Libby's not in jail, because his jail time was commuted by the President of the United States. He still had to pay a fine though. Cheney's not in jail because there was no evidence against him. There was more evidence against Rove.

Manning's time in custody will count against his sentence an he is eligible for parole in about 8 years.

[KevinNYC]

KevinNYC, it's one thing to pick sides (and you choose the one pretty much everyone would expect you to), but to try to play both and feign empathy here when clearly you show by your posts that you don't have any for him is a bit much. You're the only poster here that I can imagine who would defend and cheer if he got a harsher sentence like 60 years to life. And the fact that you turn a blind eye and ignore discussion to stuff like when he was tortured just makes your empathy come off as really fake, man.
Utter bullshit.

You can have empathy for someone and still realize they are guilty and must pay the penalty. It's a pretty significant part of Christianity. He was a ****ed kid going through a lot of shit, and he bought into the hacker ethic of there should no secrets ever and he made terrible decision and it cost him. But let's be clear. He's guilty.

[falc39]

Utter bullshit.

You can have empathy for someone and still realize they are guilty and must pay the penalty. It's a pretty significant part of Christianity. He was a ****ed kid going through a lot of shit, and he bought into the hacker ethic of there should no secrets ever and he made terrible decision and it cost him. But let's be clear. He's guilty.

Bought into "no secrets ever" ethic? Are you joking? He felt what the government was doing was morally wrong. You know, he has something called a conscience, even if people like you try to paint him as mentally ****ed up. Maybe if the government didn't do morally wrong things we wouldn't have leakers like him... ever think of that?

[KevinNYC]

Bought into "no secrets ever" ethic?

"Information should be free" - Bradley Manning

He leaked in bulk. Do you think he read all 700,000 pages of what he released?

[daily]

He leaked in bulk. Do you think he read all 700,000 pages of what he released?

He'll have plenty of time to catch up on his reading now

[RidonKs]

He leaked in bulk. Do you think he read all 700,000 pages of what he released?
he leaked in bulk, but if we're talking about the Manning trial -- and not the Wikileaks trial that's surely on the USG agenda -- he certainly had no reason to predict the entire cache would be leaked. which meant that he did not intend whatsoever to harm national defense (or security to be more accurate), he intended to reveal what he believed should be subject to public scrutiny.

it's in the public domain now only because of a journalistic error, months after which Wikileaks decided there was no point in holding back anymore. but initially, only few thousand cables, literally 1% of them, were made available.

[KevinNYC]

he leaked in bulk, but if we're talking about the Manning trial -- and not the Wikileaks trial that's surely on the USG agenda -- he certainly had no reason to predict the entire cache would be leaked. which meant that he did not intend whatsoever to harm national defense (or security to be more accurate), he intended to reveal what he believed should be subject to public scrutiny.

it's in the public domain now only because of a journalistic error, months after which Wikileaks decided there was no point in holding back anymore. but initially, only few thousand cables, literally 1% of them, were made available.

I'm not following your logic. He gave away a giant pile of information. To reverse your question, why would he have any assurance the entire cache wouldn't be leaked?

[RidonKs]

I'm not following your logic. He gave away a giant pile of information. To reverse your question, why would he have any assurance the entire cache wouldn't be leaked.
poor job phrasing -- he had no reason to believe the entire cache would be revealed to the public. if he intended to reveal all of it to the public, there were a hundred ways to do it. namely the internet. boom, all of it is available, no questions asked.

rather, he went out of his way to ensure the cables were sent to an organization that he believed would analyze them and reveal only that information that warranted no secrecy but that the public deserved to know.

and using the espionage act language you quoted and i paraphrased in this thread, the standard isn't having total assurance that the cache wouldn't be leaked in its entirety. the standard is having a reason to believe national security wouldn't be harmed. i believe, at least without any legal expertise to justify my opinion, that that standard was met. quite easily in fact.

edit: in fact, the real standard is that "united states" wouldn't be injured. which is even more interesting because "the united states" is not defined as the united states government or its own security concerns... it's just "the united states". presumably, the people of the united states. exactly whom bradley manning intended to help.

[johndeeregreen]

Leavenworth too. Any time he does there sure as shit won't be easy time.

[kNIOKAS]

Wow This KevinNYC guy is such a pest.

Leaking "secret" documents is not a crime. To bring an oath to it - well, the Clapper guy just lied to the Congress and he is fine - now leading the group to reform the very thing he was mighty OK to begin with!!! How about that.

My god Manning revealed the war crimes - what a criminal. :applause:

[IcanzIIravor]

He did a document dump. Anyone who has gone through training for the type of clearance he had is fully aware of the consequences. They hammer that into you before and after you get the clearance. He did what he thought was right. Kudos to him. Now he is going through the consequences through his own doing. No sympathy from me.

[kNIOKAS]

He didn't realize this would be the outcome of what he was doing? He leaked government secrets, you are going to jail. You don't get to pick and choose which laws you follow and you which you don't. I feel bad for him but didn't he commit the crime of which he's going to jail for?
How about you follow Constition first, and some common sense?

If he saw the evidence of war crimes commited and chose to stay silent, wouldn't that be a real crime? I mean government stamping "secret" over everything that is the evidence of their crime doesn't fly, or does it?

[kNIOKAS]

yep.

People saying what he leaked didn't hurt people are missing the point. He leaked classified government information. This is not a gray area that some classified information is ok to leak as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.
No.

Hear from Mr. Greenwald himself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJgnJ_W_5zU

Now even though he was working for a government, the truth comes first. I do not really care about some silly policy saying you have to hide war crimes.

[HarryCallahan]

Hopefully, Manning will be able to follow through and become a better person.

Hopefully, you'll decide to hurl yourself off a bridge.

[KevinNYC]

Leaking "secret" documents is not a crime. :biggums:
:hammerhead:
:roll:
What do you think this whole trial thing was about?

[bagelred]

This really sucks. If only he was talented enough to play football like his brothers Peyton and Eli, this would never have happened.

[kNIOKAS]

:biggums:
:hammerhead:
:roll:
What do you think this whole trial thing was about?
This is the case of American citizens being shitheads and letting their government get away with commiting war crimes and oppresing those who think it is not ok.

[bagelred]

This is the case of American citizens being shitheads and letting their government get away with commiting war crimes and oppresing those who think it is not ok.

Can you PLEASE keep it down already? I'm watching Duck Dynasty.....idiot!!!

[MavsSuperFan]

Leavenworth too. Any time he does there sure as shit won't be easy time.
Bradley Manning is physically small, pre op transgender, and the government hates him. Prediction he gets raped so much that he commits suicide. government acts like they feel bad it happens, but secretly knew it would happen and wanted it to happen. All future war crimes are kept secret.

Its the same as the romans crucifixion practices. The crucified people were always those who challenged the state. The empire needed to make an example of them. They propped them up on a hill so that everyone could see how they died. Needed to intimidate others into submission. Oldest trick in the book.


:biggums:
:hammerhead:
:roll:
What do you think this whole trial thing was about?

Intimidating future people who would disclose information such as:
-contradicting US government claims that they had no information on civilian casualties
-showing that the vast majority of gitmo detainees have been held without trial on no evidence. KevinNYC try to have some compassion for 1 second and imagine you were one of these men. one day an army ranger unit kidnaps you at gunpoint or a CIA officer tosses a bag over your head. All because one of your neighbors had a problem with you. Then you are held for 10+ years without trial. They force feed you because the US government wont allow you to die because it would embarrass them.

You're ok with that right? Because the men who made this decision weren't 22 year old transgender? The real injustice here is that the America people found about it right?
-Video of US pilots killing civilians and first responders and than celebrating their death. the pentagon refuses to follow our laws and release the video to reuters under the freedom of information act (the video is in no way operationally sensitive). The real crime here was leaking the video right?

You are ok with the US government supporting arab dictatorships and giving weapons to people we know are likely to use them against civilians right? the real crime is letting the American people know about it right?

We got to follow the rules blindly, if a soldier sees a war crime and they are ordered to suppress it, the moral thing to do is to keep their oath right? Follow orders at all times? You see evidence that innocent people have been held for no reason by our government for 10+ years, the immoral thing to do is to tell the american people right? gotta keep that oath right?

Also disclosing classified information is only a crime when it hurts the administration right? The political ramifications are what make it a crime right? Sure the government couldn't prove a specific person that was hurt by the leaks, but they stained the reputation of the government right? Leaking classified info about the CIA kill list helped the government so it was perfectly legal right?

Honestly man how much of your defense of the government here is related to the fact that you support Obama no matter what? I know people like you man, my cousin and I used to always talk about how Bush was violating our constitutional rights wiretapping without warrants and shit. Nowadays its just that Obama needs to protect us. Be honest if McCain were president you would support Manning.

[MavsSuperFan]

:roll:

Book it here.
Snowden is going permanently defect and Julian Assange will move on the next person he can convince to throw his life his away.

Why is it that the actual revelations don't offend you at all?
Only the people being that did the revealing.

[MavsSuperFan]

He did a document dump. Anyone who has gone through training for the type of clearance he had is fully aware of the consequences. They hammer that into you before and after you get the clearance. He did what he thought was right. Kudos to him. Now he is going through the consequences through his own doing. No sympathy from me.

:biggums:

Sometimes laws are unjust. A slave runs away from his owner he broke the law technically, that means he is undeserving of sympathy?

If a soldier sees a war crime, and is ordered to cover it up, but because of morals discloses it to the few reporters willing to go against the US government and then is punished for it he doesn't deserve sympathy?

1 question were the nazi and imperial japanese soldiers wrong to follow orders when they were ordered to destroy evidence of war crimes?

Edit: Honestly what for the US government apologists here:

what is the problem in a free country for the citizenry to know how many civilian's their government has killed in military operations? what is the problem with letting American citizens know that the vast majority of gitmo detainees have been imprisoned without trial and on no evidence? What is the problem with letting American citizens see a video of US soldiers killing civilians and first responders?

Bradley mannings leaks didn't contain top secret fighter plane designs, missile designs or any other weapon design. They didnt disclose the identity of specific CIA or military agents. They didnt disclose CIA or military operations. They didnt disclose future US military plans.

Which piece of disclosed information should not be known by the citizenry of a free country?

[KevinNYC]

Bradley Manning is physically small, pre op transgender, and the government hates him. Prediction he gets raped so much that he commits suicide. government acts like they feel bad it happens, but secretly knew it would happen and wanted it to happen. All future war crimes are kept secret.

Its the same as the romans crucifixion practices. The crucified people were always those who challenged the state. The empire needed to make an example of them. They propped them up on a hill so that everyone could see how they died. Needed to intimidate others into submission. Oldest trick in the book.



Intimidating future people who would disclose information such as:
-contradicting US government claims that they had no information on civilian casualties
-showing that the vast majority of gitmo detainees have been held without trial on no evidence. KevinNYC try to have some compassion for 1 second and imagine you were one of these men. one day an army ranger unit kidnaps you at gunpoint or a CIA officer tosses a bag over your head. All because one of your neighbors had a problem with you. Then you are held for 10+ years without trial. They force feed you because the US government wont allow you to die because it would embarrass them.

You're ok with that right? Because the men who made this decision weren't 22 year old transgender? The real injustice here is that the America people found about it right?
-Video of US pilots killing civilians and first responders and than celebrating their death. the pentagon refuses to follow our laws and release the video to reuters under the freedom of information act (the video is in no way operationally sensitive). The real crime here was leaking the video right?

You are ok with the US government supporting arab dictatorships and giving weapons to people we know are likely to use them against civilians right? the real crime is letting the American people know about it right?

We got to follow the rules blindly, if a soldier sees a war crime and they are ordered to suppress it, the moral thing to do is to keep their oath right? Follow orders at all times? You see evidence that innocent people have been held for no reason by our government for 10+ years, the immoral thing to do is to tell the american people right? gotta keep that oath right?

Also disclosing classified information is only a crime when it hurts the administration right? The political ramifications are what make it a crime right? Sure the government couldn't prove a specific person that was hurt by the leaks, but they stained the reputation of the government right? Leaking classified info about the CIA kill list helped the government so it was perfectly legal right?

Honestly man how much of your defense of the government here is related to the fact that you support Obama no matter what? I know people like you man, my cousin and I used to always talk about how Bush was violating our constitutional rights wiretapping without warrants and shit. Nowadays its just that Obama needs to protect us. Be honest if McCain were president you would support Manning.
You're constructing the very definition of a strawman argument.

Also don't accuse me of not having compassion. When I showed that towards manning earlier, I was accused of smearing him. Also I doubt he gets raped ever at Leavenworth, that's more of a state prison issue. You finding his motives acceptable, doesn't make him any less culpable.

[IamRAMBO24]

A lot of good points, but the thing that stands out the most is:

1. Can't believe KevNYC is using a low ball deceptive use of logic in calling out Manning as a transgender. Haha what a loser. Look at this idiot trying to grasp at bullsh*t to make himself sound more reasonable.

2. The argument is split 50/50: one side believes Manning is guilty because he broke the law; another side doesn't believe the law is broken because what is being leaked is criminal in and of itself. It's hard to find a solution to this problem, so the question everybody should ask themselves is, "What does KevNYC think?" Usually the opposite of that should be the correct one.

[brantonli]

Utter bullshit.

You can have empathy for someone and still realize they are guilty and must pay the penalty. It's a pretty significant part of Christianity. He was a ****ed kid going through a lot of shit, and he bought into the hacker ethic of there should no secrets ever and he made terrible decision and it cost him. But let's be clear. He's guilty.

So basically you're saying 'Ok I feel sort of sorry (not really), but he broke the law, and the law is the final word', while everybody is saying 'I feel really sorry for him, and the law is wrong'. Or that's what it seems like to me.

So I guess what really should be the topic is 'Should the laws be changed?'

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

who the hell decides to convert to being a female while doing a 35 year bid.

[IamRAMBO24]

Nope the new premise should be:

1. What does KevNYC think? You have two possible outcome. If you agree with him, your position is incorrect. If you disagree, your position is correct.

That should be the new gold standard in seperating truth from fiction.

[falc39]

You're constructing the very definition of a strawman argument.

Also don't accuse me of not having compassion. When I showed that towards manning earlier, I was accused of smearing him. Also I doubt he gets raped ever at Leavenworth, that's more of a state prison issue. You finding his motives acceptable, doesn't make him any less culpable.

No, he's making points beyond the surface level, something you can't seem to go beyond or want to acknowledge. Quite the artful dodger you are being here.

And one or two sentences doesn't make you seem compassionate when everything else you write comes off as the opposite.

[IcanzIIravor]

:biggums:

Sometimes laws are unjust. A slave runs away from his owner he broke the law technically, that means he is undeserving of sympathy? You don't think it is silly to equate slavery with a guy who voluntarily signed up for the Army and who went through all the training to get the clearance he received? He was told over and over the consequences of revealing classified information. The slave had no choice with the situation given.

If a soldier sees a war crime, and is ordered to cover it up, but because of morals discloses it to the few reporters willing to go against the US government and then is punished for it he doesn't deserve sympathy? Are you under the impression that he only gave up information pertaining to alledged war crimes? Are you under the impression he looked over each document before giving it to wikileaks? If he had only given up data revealing suspected war crimes then he wouldn't be in this situation. It's the 700,000 plus documents he gave up that had nothing to do with war crimes that has ****ed him. There have been other soldiers and contractors who have revealed suspected war crimes and they have not been imprisoned over it.

1 question were the nazi and imperial japanese soldiers wrong to follow orders when they were ordered to destroy evidence of war crimes? The revealing of war crimes (people committing atrocities isn't what has gotten him in hot water) didn't lead to the full weight of the US government coming down on him. Revealing interactions with our allies amongst other things is what led to him getting the hammer. Was Manning ordered to destroy evidence? No. Did he bring any of this to the attention of his command or JAG? Did he attempt to do so and was rebuffed so felt he had no choice but to do a document dump of what he saw and what he didn't read over?

Edit: Honestly what for the US government apologists here:

what is the problem in a free country for the citizenry to know how many civilian's their government has killed in military operations? what is the problem with letting American citizens know that the vast majority of gitmo detainees have been imprisoned without trial and on no evidence? What is the problem with letting American citizens see a video of US soldiers killing civilians and first responders? Why would you need to know how many people are killed in a war? There has been extensive coverage with regards to GITMO and the treatment of prisoners. Are you unaware of this? My problem is not with the video being leaked showing soldiers violating the Geneva convention. If that had been the extent of what he did (something that others have revealed; Abu Gharabe as one example) then I suspect the reaction would have been very different from the military and the Administration.

Bradley mannings leaks didn't contain top secret fighter plane designs, missile designs or any other weapon design. They didnt disclose the identity of specific CIA or military agents. They didnt disclose CIA or military operations. They didnt disclose future US military plans. You don't understand. He went through the training which explicitely mentioned it would be a violation to reveal classified data. He willfully disregarded that and dumped a few hundred thousand files to wikileaks, which revealed classified, secret and top secret data. I am amazed this is so hard to understand. Maybe it is because you're a civilian who has never had the classified training. I doubt to this day the majority of those files have been gone over by wikileaks, so who really knows the extent of the damage? The government certainly wouldn't reveal the extent of it.

Which piece of disclosed information should not be known by the citizenry of a free country? Why do you need to know it? Your feeling is that all data within the US government and military should be available to the general public or is it just certain data you feel should be available at all times to the public? I take it you think nothing should be classified?

Is it possible to agree with a few things Manning did while disagreeing with other things? I feel the same about Snowden. I've no problem with him as an NSA contractor objecting to domestic spying as the NSA is specifically charged with none domestic data gathering. My problem with him was revealing the data gathering we do overseas as the NSA is lawfully charged to do this. That aspect he knew taking the job.

[reppy]

Why would you need to know how many people are killed in a war? There has been extensive coverage with regards to GITMO and the treatment of prisoners. Are you unaware of this? My problem is not with the video being leaked showing soldiers violating the Geneva convention. If that had been the extent of what he did (something that others have revealed; Abu Gharabe as one example) then I suspect the reaction would have been very different from the military and the Administration.

Please re-read what you just said and really think about it.


You don't understand. He went through the training which explicitely mentioned it would be a violation to reveal classified data.

I wonder what kind of training the people went through that led them to shoot unarmed civilians. Did anything ever happen to them? Are they going to jail for 35 years?


He willfully disregarded that and dumped a few hundred thousand files to wikileaks, which revealed classified, secret and top secret data. I am amazed this is so hard to understand. Maybe it is because you're a civilian who has never had the classified training. I doubt to this day the majority of those files have been gone over by wikileaks, so who really knows the extent of the damage? The government certainly wouldn't reveal the extent of it.

What "top secret" data did he release? I keep hearing people shriek and howl about all this super sensitive information he released... I haven't seen anyone actually point to anything that was damaging. Embarrassing? Yes. Threat to national security? Not from what I've seen.

[MavsSuperFan]

Is it possible to agree with a few things Manning did while disagreeing with other things? I feel the same about Snowden. I've no problem with him as an NSA contractor objecting to domestic spying as the NSA is specifically charged with none domestic data gathering. My problem with him was revealing the data gathering we do overseas as the NSA is lawfully charged to do this. That aspect he knew taking the job.

Totally worth it find out the government is violating the 4th amendment. How are you even 1% ok with American's information being monitored without a specific warrant?


you don't think it is silly to equate slavery with a guy who voluntarily signed up for the Army and who went through all the training to get the clearance he received? He was told over and over the consequences of revealing classified information. The slave had no choice with the situation given.

Just trying to make a point that laws are sometimes unjust. The laws used to imprison manning are unjust imo. Why is dick cheney and scooter libby not in jail for revealing the identity of Plame? Why aren't obama administration officials in jail for disclosing the existence of the CIA kill list or as they call the disposition matrix? The disposition matrix was classified at the time the obama administration leaked it for purely political purposes. Why isn't that a crime if revealing classified information is a crime?


Are you under the impression that he only gave up information pertaining to alledged war crimes? Are you under the impression he looked over each document before giving it to wikileaks? If he had only given up data revealing suspected war crimes then he wouldn't be in this situation. It's the 700,000 plus documents he gave up that had nothing to do with war crimes that has ****ed him. There have been other soldiers and contractors who have revealed suspected war crimes and they have not been imprisoned over it.

Please either:
A. Name the specific CIA, Military, or other US government operative who has been killed or compromised or in any other way hurt because of the manning leaks (Eg. Scooter Libby's leaks disclosed Plame, which ended her career as a CIA operative). Or, name the specific CIA military, or other US government operation hurt by Manning's leaks, or name one american citizen harmed by manning's leaks? Or, top secret military designs/plans that were disclosed.

or

B. Admit that the government couldn't not prove that Manning's leak did any damage at all other than embarrassing the government. Basically we found out our diplomats talk a lot of shit like gossipy high school girls. And that our military hides the evidence of civilians they kill and protects the killers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/03/bradley-manning-sentence_n_3696501.html
Bradley Manning Sentencing Testimony Suggests WikiLeaks Not Responsible For Any Deaths


The revealing of war crimes (people committing atrocities isn't what has gotten him in hot water) didn't lead to the full weight of the US government coming down on him. Revealing interactions with our allies amongst other things is what led to him getting the hammer. Was Manning ordered to destroy evidence? No. Did he bring any of this to the attention of his command or JAG? Did he attempt to do so and was rebuffed so felt he had no choice but to do a document dump of what he saw and what he didn't read over?

:lol Ya revealing classified information is why he is sentenced to 35 years. Remember that obama official who disclosed the cia kill list for public reasons and how he was also sentenced to 35 years ... oh wait.

According to Manning he did try to bring up the issue internally to his superiors, but was told to stop. What was he supposed to shut up about the fact that we are holding innocent people in gitmo in some cases for 10+ years? and sit on evidence that american soldiers killed civilians (evidence that the pentagon refused to give to reuters under the freedom of information act, which they should have because it wasn't operationally sensitive)? and evidence that proved the pentagon was lying when they said they weren't tracking how many civilians we are killing with our military operations? The real crime is the truth got out right?


Why would you need to know how many people are killed in a war?
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:
Because it is wrong to kill civilians. I am only talking about civilian casualties. Arabs are still human man ...:wtf:


There has been extensive coverage with regards to GITMO and the treatment of prisoners. Are you unaware of this? My problem is not with the video being leaked showing soldiers violating the Geneva convention. If that had been the extent of what he did (something that others have revealed; Abu Gharabe as one example) then I suspect the reaction would have been very different from the military and the Administration.

Manning's leaks helped confirm that the US government knows full well that it is holding innocent people in Gitmo and yet with full knowledge of their innocence refuses to release them. They also force feed them.


Manning's leaks included more than 700 Guantanamo detainee files, many revealing that the U.S. had little reason to continue holding its prisoners. The 250,000 State Department cables he leaked detailed U.S. diplomatic pressure on foreign countries to ignore or excuse extraordinary renditions carried out by the CIA in apparent violation of international law. They also showed that the U.S. routinely failed to investigate reports of prisoner abuse and summary execution by the Iraqi military.

manning's leaks helped confirm all of that, but you probably are one of those people that think its ok to hold them indefinitely without trial...


You don't understand. He went through the training which explicitely mentioned it would be a violation to reveal classified data. He willfully disregarded that and dumped a few hundred thousand files to wikileaks, which revealed classified, secret and top secret data. I am amazed this is so hard to understand. Maybe it is because you're a civilian who has never had the classified training. I doubt to this day the majority of those files have been gone over by wikileaks, so who really knows the extent of the damage? The government certainly wouldn't reveal the extent of it.

Haha they had a whole trial government could not find one instance where damage was done. they punishing him for the good he did. Government had 3 years to prep for the case


Why do you need to know it? Your feeling is that all data within the US government and military should be available to the general public or is it just certain data you feel should be available at all times to the public? I take it you think nothing should be classified?

Anything that is not operationally sensitive (eg. future military plans or the position of our troops/ships) or stuff like military designs should be disclosed. Basically anything covered under the freedom of information act should be disclosed.

[blazerjimmy]

I feel sorry for anyone who considers this kid a "hero". He KNEW what he did was wrong. A twenty-something, low ranking enlisted member has the rules, restrictions, training and PENALTIES of the proper handling of classified material hammered into them constantly!!!! He obviously had some issues - the whole gender issue, issue, etc. Did the US Army "fail" him by deploying him? I'm not sure, but he would have definitely been a "red flag" for me if he was one of my subordinates. His release of "atrocities and war crimes" as a defense is crap - guess what happens in wars???? People die - that's what happens in wars - do really shitty things take place in wars???? Yes, yes they do. All kinds of really shitty things are taking place in Syria right now - and they're getting done....ready for this....shocker....without any Americans there!!!! Bottom line, Bradley "Chelsea" Manning betrayed not only his Country and Service, but his fellow Soldiers....his sentencing of 35 years - eligible for parole in less than nine years is BS and a slap in the face to the men and women of the Armed Forces who do their duty and place their lives on the line. They don't get to choose the next shit hole they get sent to!

[MavsSuperFan]

I feel sorry for anyone who considers this kid a "hero". He KNEW what he did was wrong. A twenty-something, low ranking enlisted member has the rules, restrictions, training and PENALTIES of the proper handling of classified material hammered into them constantly!!!! He obviously had some issues - the whole gender issue, issue, etc. Did the US Army "fail" him by deploying him? I'm not sure, but he would have definitely been a "red flag" for me if he was one of my subordinates. His release of "atrocities and war crimes" as a defense is crap - guess what happens in wars???? People die - that's what happens in wars - do really shitty things take place in wars???? Yes, yes they do. All kinds of really shitty things are taking place in Syria right now - and they're getting done....ready for this....shocker....without any Americans there!!!! Bottom line, Bradley "Chelsea" Manning betrayed not only his Country and Service, but his fellow Soldiers....his sentencing of 35 years - eligible for parole in less than nine years is BS and a slap in the face to the men and women of the Armed Forces who do their duty and place their lives on the line. They don't get to choose the next shit hole they get sent to!

So you think that Imperial Japanese soldiers and Nazi soldiers were right in following orders right?

Quite frankly we had no business invading Iraq. The invasion of Iraq would have been considered a war crime if we werent so powerful.

Obviously Chelsea Manning has issues and fine lets say she deserves her punishment. (I just want to restate that the US government dispute immense effort has not prove a single instance where an american person/agent/operation/asset/anything was compromised by her leaks.)

Why are you ok with dick cheney, scooter libby and the obama administration for leaking classified information for political benefit?


His release of "atrocities and war crimes" as a defense is crap - guess what happens in wars???? People die - that's what happens in wars - do really shitty things take place in wars???? Yes, yes they do. All kinds of really shitty things are taking place in Syria right now - and they're getting done....ready for this....shocker....without any Americans there!!!!

If you are really happy with our government having the equivalent morals to Bashar Assad you and I will have to disagree.

Why is that the actual information leaked doesnt offend you at all?

- Are you ok with killing civilians and first responders?
-Are you ok with the pentagon refusing to release non-operationally sensitive information to reuters under the freedom of information act?
-Are you ok with the pentagon claiming they dont keep track of civilian casualties when they clearly do?
- Are you ok with the government holding detainees in gitmo for 10+ years on no evidence? Think about that for a minute, these people have been taken from their families and imprisoned on zero evidence for more than a decade. Is that what America is now? Thats soviet gulag like.

[HarryCallahan]

MavsSF dominating this thread.


*Chelsea

Seeing people genuinely refer to him as "Chelsea (Bradley) Manning" makes me nauseous. I'm sure he isn't offended by being referred to as a male, which is what the entire world knows him as. When I first saw Chelsea Manning, I thought it was his sister or something, until the story stopped making sense and I had to google "Chelsea Manning."

[KingBeasley08]

This thread pretty much just exposed KevinNYC. If this was the Bush administration, I can all but guarantee that he would be on the other side. I can't respect people that have their tongues glued to a parties' ****

[secund2nun]

Snowden must have information on MK Ultra. He has said most information he has he has not released. He should post the truth that MK Ultra is still in operation and the horrific unimaginable abuse it causes to innocent people including many children.

[HarryCallahan]

Snowden must have information on MK Ultra. He has said most information he has he has not released. He should post the truth that MK Ultra is still in operation and the horrific unimaginable abuse it causes to innocent people including many children.

Do you have any proof or evidence that he has info on MK-ULTRA?
How about that MK-ULTRA is still operational?

I don't mean to sound like a wet-blanket, but there is no evidence that the program is still in place or tat it ever captured children to "Monarch mind-control" them. Except for a few tall-stories that also involve Jimmy Saville dressed as a baphomet.

[KevinNYC]

Seeing people genuinely refer to him as "Chelsea (Bradley) Manning" makes me nauseous.

Why is that?


I'm sure he isn't offended by being referred to as a male, which is what the entire world knows him as.
Chelsea Manning explicitly said the opposite


As I transition into this next phase of my life, I want everyone to know the real me. I am Chelsea Manning. I am a female. Given the way that I feel, and have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible. I hope that you will support me in this transition. I also request that, starting today, you refer to me by my new name and use the feminine pronoun (except in official mail to the confinement facility). I look forward to receiving letters from supporters and having the opportunity to write back.

Thank you,

Chelsea E. Manning

Manning was exposed after having several online chats with a well-known hacker named Adrian Lamo who is himself bisexual and that was one of the reason Manning sought him out. Lamo also told Manning his ex was a MTF, a male who transitioned to female, exactly what Manning is hoping to do. During those chats Manning told Lamo
I wouldn’t mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn’t for the possibility of having pictures of me plastered all over the world press as a boy.

Reportedly the Bradly Manning support network started reffering to Manning as her/she a year ago. This is why I thought it was ironic, that I mentioned Manning's mindset I got accused of smearing him.

So Mr. Callahan again, I ask why does this make you nauseous?

[KevinNYC]

This thread pretty much just exposed KevinNYC. If this was the Bush administration, I can all but guarantee that he would be on the other side. I can't respect people that have their tongues glued to a parties' ****

Prove to me that William Vollman is NOT the Unabomber.

[kNicKz]

North Korean citizens have a stronger grasp of reality than KevinNYC

[HarryCallahan]

Why is that?



Mainly because most people who refer to him as Chelsea do it in a smug sort of way, kind of like when people talk about their prius.

I didn't know he was trans until like a week ago.

[QUOTE]I wouldn

[longtime lurker]

Bradley Manning is a true American hero. It completely boggles the mind that the savages that killed innocent people weren't investigated yet this guy goes to jail for trying to do the right thing. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about these soldiers not being investigated.

[ThickassGlasses]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, I'm barely if at all following the case, but did Manning not release other military secrets and classified information that did not pertain to the killing of innocent civilians in Iraq?

[COnDEMnED]

Is this one of those situations where he got jail time with half? Meaning he got sentenced to 35 years, but he will be out at 17 years? Or is this 35 solid?

[HarryCallahan]

Is this one of those situations where he got jail time with half? Meaning he got sentenced to 35 years, but he will be out at 17 years? Or is this 35 solid?

I think it's 35+ solid.

[KevinNYC]

Is this one of those situations where he got jail time with half? Meaning he got sentenced to 35 years, but he will be out at 17 years? Or is this 35 solid?

He can be out in 8 years.

Eligible for parole after serving one third of his sentence. With his time already served that would be 8 years.