Amazing Wilt's sad finals scoring average..

[millwad]

We always hear all about how amazing Wilt was a a scorer and how he always destroyed everyone all the time.. in the regular season that is.

"Amazing" Wilt's scoring average in the playoffs is; 22 ppg on 52% shooting

"Amazing" Wilt's finals scoring average over 6 final series is pathetic; 18.5 points per game on 55% shooting while only making 38% of his FT-attempts.

[funnystuff]

Didn't see him play, can't comment.

[LAZERUSS]

We always hear all about how amazing Wilt was a a scorer and how he always destroyed everyone all the time.. in the regular season that is.

"Amazing" Wilt's scoring average in the playoffs is; 22 ppg on 52% shooting

"Amazing" Wilt's finals scoring average over 6 final series is pathetic; 18.5 points per game on 55% shooting while only making 38% of his FT-attempts.

In the 63-64 Finals, Chamberlain outscored Russell, per game, 29.2 ppg to 11.2 ppg, outrebounded Russell, per game, 27.8 to 25.2 rpg, and outshot Russell from the floor by a .517 to .386 margin.

In the 66-67 Finals, Chamberlain outscored Thurmond, per game, 17.5 ppg to 14.3 ppg (BTW, he outscored him five of the six games, and demolished him in the clinching game six); outrebounded Thurmond, 28.5 rpg to 26.7 rpg (outrebounding him in five of the six games), and outshot him by a .560 to .343 margin. This, in Thurmond's greatest season.

In the 68-69 Finals, Chamberlain outscored Russell, per game, 11.7 ppg to 9.1 ppg, outrebounded Russell, per game, 25.0 rpg to 21.1 rpg, and outshot Russell by a .534 to .397 margin.

In the 69-70 Finals, Chamberlain, on one leg, outscored Reed by a 23.2 ppg to 23.0 ppg margin, outrebounded Reed by a 24.1 rpg to 10.5 rpg margin, and outshot Reed from the field by a .625 to .483 margin.

In the 71-72 Finals, Chamberlain averaged 19.4 ppg, 23.2 rpg, and shot .600 from the field, compared to Lucas's 20.0 ppg, 9.8 rpg, and .500 FG%.

And in the 72-73 Finals (in his last season), Chamberlain averaged 11.6 ppg, 18.6 rpg, and shot .525 from the field. Reed averaged 16.4 ppg, 9.2 rpg, and shot .493 from the field.


Oh, and Chamberlain OUTSCORED his starting opposing centers from the FT line in EVERY one of those series.

[Sarcastic]

What were his rebounding and block numbers?

[millwad]

In the 63-64 Finals, Chamberlain outscored Russell, per game, 29.2 ppg to 11.2 ppg, outrebounded Russell, per game, 27.8 to 25.2 rpg, and outshot Russell from the floor by a .517 to .386 margin.

In the 66-67 Finals, Chamberlain outscored Thurmond, per game, 17.5 ppg to 14.3 ppg (BTW, he outscored him five of the six games, and demolished him in the clinching game six); outrebounded Thurmond, 28.5 rpg to 26.7 rpg (outrebounding him in five of the six games), and outshot him by a .560 to .343 margin. This, in Thurmond's greatest season.

In the 68-69 Finals, Chamberlain outscored Russell, per game, 11.7 ppg to 9.1 ppg, outrebounded Russell, per game, 25.0 rpg to 21.1 rpg, and outshot Russell by a .534 to .397 margin.

In the 69-70 Finals, Chamberlain, on one leg, outscored Reed by a 23.2 ppg to 23.0 ppg margin, outrebounded Reed by a 24.1 rpg to 10.5 rpg margin, and outshot Reed from the field by a .625 to .483 margin.

In the 71-72 Finals, Chamberlain averaged 19.4 ppg, 23.2 rpg, and shot .600 from the field, compared to Lucas's 20.0 ppg, 9.8 rpg, and .500 FG%.

And in the 72-73 Finals (in his last season), Chamberlain averaged 11.6 ppg, 18.6 rpg, and shot .525 from the field. Reed averaged 16.4 ppg, 9.2 rpg, and shot .493 from the field.


Oh, and Chamberlain OUTSCORED his starting opposing centers from the FT line in EVERY one of those series.

I am talking about scoring, why do you spam about Wilt's rebounding numbers against much shorter players a la Lucas, Reed and Russell?

He got outscored twice in the finals by both Lucas and Reed and he barely outscored Russell in '69 and outscoring Thurmond is not a big deal, the guy only made 41% of his freaking shots in the playoffs.

All that spamming about his scoring for nothing..

[millwad]

What were his rebounding and block numbers?

This thread is about his scoring, his rebounding can be found on basketball-reference.com and blocks weren't counted back in the days.

[buddha]

Its all been a lie?!

"Amazing" Wilt's finals scoring average over 6 final series is pathetic; 18.5 points per game on 55% shooting while only making 38% of his FT-attempts.
http://i.imgur.com/2uOBamR.gif

[CavaliersFTW]

Number of NBA Finals Wilt played under a coach that greenlit him to score as many points as he could: 0

Even the very first '64 Finals appearance was made when Wilt's team was coached by Alex Hannum, who asked Wilt to pass from the high post and facilitate teammates rather than try to carry the load and score 40 or 50 a game. Context I'm sure, doesn't matter to you though, this smells like Jlauber essay bait

[MP.Trey]

Its all been a lie?!

http://i.imgur.com/2uOBamR.gif
:roll: What is this from? The Crawford oop between-the-legs to Griffin?

[CavaliersFTW]

What were his rebounding and block numbers?
^- Nothing Brook Lopez couldn't duplicate if adjusted for pace... rite? http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/skip1.png

[bmd]

Number of NBA Finals Wilt played under a coach that greenlit him to score as many points as he could: 0

Even the very first '64 Finals appearance was made when Wilt's team was coached by Alex Hannum, who asked Wilt to pass from the high post and facilitate teammates rather than try to carry the load and score 40 or 50 a game. Context I'm sure, doesn't matter to you though, this smells like Jlauber essay baitSo your explanation is that running an actual offense is what brought his numbers down..?

[millwad]

Number of NBA Finals Wilt played under a coach that greenlit him to score as many points as he could: 0

Even the very first '64 Finals appearance was made when Wilt's team was coached by Alex Hannum, who asked Wilt to pass from the high post and facilitate teammates rather than try to carry the load and score 40 or 50 a game. Context I'm sure, doesn't matter to you though, this smells like Jlauber essay bait

That is nothing but stupid excuses.
WHY, why in earth would anyone ask a player to score less? I'll tell you why, because it's not effective.

[The-Legend-24]

Top 5?

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h341/net0ranger/mj-laughing.gif

[CavaliersFTW]

So your explanation is that running an actual offense is what brought his numbers down..?
Running an entirely different more team focused offense vs say, the seasons he averaged 37-50 etc when the coaches either gave him a green light on his touches to shoot, or more extreme - told teammates to try and feed him the ball, definitely meant he was going to score less points. Not sure what is so difficult to understand here. The only 2 Finals appearances he made in his prime were under coach Alex Hannum, who wanted a team offense with Wilt just as involved with passing as he was with shooting the ball. His assist numbers were crazy for a big man under that role, the best ever actually.

Speaking of which, you heard correct in that only 2 of Wilt's finals were played during his prime. The other 4 he was in his 30's, 3 of which were post knee surgery, 1 of which was literally only 7 months after a would-be-season-ending type of surgery had Wilt not innovated his own Physical Therapy program to accelerate his return ensuring he would even play in those finals. His last 2 Finals were actually played as the teams defensive specialist, he rarely did anything other than jog back on offense those two seasons. Different roles and different systems do effect personal stats. I'm sure you'll search for ways to create a negative out of Wilt's willingness to change his role throughout his career though. After all, he was so "selfish" and all that other negative stuff you guys love to hate.

[CavaliersFTW]

That is nothing but stupid excuses.
WHY, why in earth would anyone ask a player to score less? I'll tell you why, because it's not effective.
He made it to the ECF and took Boston to something like 7 games within a margin of 2 points in the final moments of the game doing it. It obviously wasn't a bad idea, considering that same team with that same group of guys only 1 season prior failed to even win in the playoffs when Wilt wasn't fed the ball in the same manner. It was far and away the best option when his team wasn't balanced or well put together. Of course, once he had teammates that could shoot and run the floor themselves, him scoring that many points wasn't necessary to translate to W's. But to say it wasn't effective at all means the joke is on you. The 62 Warriors by definition were a well performing team almost exclusively because of Wilt's offensive prowess.

[Marchesk]

In the 62 ECF, Wilt averaged 33.6 against the Celtics, and they lost in 7 games by 2 points. It's not like Wilt never had good scoring series. It's just that he had to go through Boston when he was scoring big time.

[Marchesk]

It's not like Wilt was the only HOFer getting denied by the Celtic dynasty. West and Baylor lost a few finals against them. Petit lost a couple (they did win one win Russell got hurt). Oscar never got a ring in the 60s. Thurmond was denied too. The Celtics were beating everyone. You had one finals were Baylor averaged over 40 and West over 30 and they still lost to the Cs.

[millwad]

He made it to the ECF and took Boston to something like 7 games within a margin of 2 points in the final moments of the game doing it. It obviously wasn't a bad idea, considering that same team with that same group of guys only 1 season prior failed to even win in the playoffs when Wilt wasn't fed the ball in the same manner. It was far and away the best option when his team wasn't balanced or well put together. Of course, once he had teammates that could shoot and run the floor themselves, him scoring that many points wasn't necessary to translate to W's. But to say it wasn't effective at all means the joke is on you. The 62 Warriors by definition were a well performing team almost exclusively because of Wilt's offensive prowess.

First of all, the '62 playoffs was only 3 series long.

After they beat the 41-39 Nationals they suddenly were in the WCF, so using a a season when they won 1 series is pretty laughable even though they lost against the Celtics.

And Wilt both dropped with 15 points per game in scoring and in terms of FG%. I never said it wasn't effective, what I said is that it's not more effective than team basketball which Wilt's career was a perfect example of.

[millwad]

In the 62 ECF, Wilt averaged 33.6 against the Celtics, and they lost in 7 games by 2 points. It's not like Wilt never had good scoring series. It's just that he had to go through Boston when he was scoring big time.

Stop being silly, although Russell was a great defender he was still towered by Wilt who was much taller and it was an era with very, very few double and triple teams and defensive schemes can't be compared to modern era ones.

And Wilt's best scoring performance in the finals was against Russell..

[Deuce Bigalow]

Regular season: 30.1 ppg / 51.1 FT%
Playoffs: 22.5 ppg / 46.5 FT%
Finals: 18.5 ppg / 37.5 FT%

The Big Dipper :bowdown:

[Lebron23]

Even LeBron is a superior Finals scorer than Wilt

23.9 ppg on 44.5 FG%.

And in the playoffs The King is superior than Wilt the Stilt (28.1 ppg >>> 22.5 ppg)

[Marchesk]

For Wilt's first 7 seasons, when he was averaging 39.5/24.9/3.4 in the regular seeason on 54%, he put up 32.9/26.3/3 on 51% in the playoffs.

So yeah, he did drop from almost 40 a game to about 33 in the playoffs when he was volume scoring. But it's still 33 a game for his first seven seasons.

Interesting thing is that Wilt's rebounding numbers went up in the playoffs and his assists didn't suffer. By all accounts, neither did his blocks.

[scandisk_]

Number of NBA Finals Wilt played under a coach that greenlit him to score as many points as he could: 0

Even the very first '64 Finals appearance was made when Wilt's team was coached by Alex Hannum, who asked Wilt to pass from the high post and facilitate teammates rather than try to carry the load and score 40 or 50 a game. Context I'm sure, doesn't matter to you though, this smells like Jlauber essay bait

Dude, we all know who Millwad really is :oldlol:

jey lob......rr

:lol

[magnax1]

Most of his finals were post 68 when he didnt really focus on scoring as much.

[SilkkTheShocker]

How do you let ur biggest rival win 11 rings to your 2? Pathetic.

[secund2nun]

Regular season: 30.1 ppg / 51.1 FT%
Playoffs: 22.5 ppg / 46.5 FT%
Finals: 18.5 ppg / 37.5 FT%

The Big Dipper :bowdown:

But but but but......he beat up a mountain lion, lifted Arnold Schwarzenegger with one arm, and ran a 4.0 40 yard dash all at one time.

But in all seriousness- Wilt= exposed.

[Haks]

Youre an idiot if you think Wilt is a top 5 player of all time. Lebron has already surpassed him so I dont even think he is top 8 atm

[millwad]

For Wilt's first 7 seasons, when he was averaging 39.5/24.9/3.4 in the regular seeason on 54%, he put up 32.9/26.3/3 on 51% in the playoffs.

So yeah, he did drop from almost 40 a game to about 33 in the playoffs when he was volume scoring. But it's still 33 a game for his first seven seasons.

Interesting thing is that Wilt's rebounding numbers went up in the playoffs and his assists didn't suffer. By all accounts, neither did his blocks.

Wilt only played in the finals once in his first 7 years and it was a big joke to be honest. The year he made it to the finals he only had to play one series to make the finals and in the finals they got their ass kicked by the Celtics.

And as if that wasn't enough, he missed the playoffs twice during his first 7 years. So much for that nonsense..

[millwad]

Regular season: 30.1 ppg / 51.1 FT%
Playoffs: 22.5 ppg / 46.5 FT%
Finals: 18.5 ppg / 37.5 FT%

The Big Dipper :bowdown:


And if you adjust those number to actual pace and modern era playing time it's even worse..

[Marchesk]

And if you adjust those number to actual pace and modern era playing time it's even worse..

Let's take the 1964 Finals with Boston vs San Fran which Boston won in 5 games:

The average score was 105.2 - 101.2. Boston averaged 99 FGA a game, and SF averaged about 97. The FG% was a low 40.7 to 39.0. So a defensive struggle with a faster pace.

Wilt had the most FGA with 24 a game. He averaged 29.2 on 51.7% FG shooting, which is much better than the averages.

In the 2012 finals, Westbrook had the most with 24 attempts a game. Durant averaged 21 on 54.8% shooting, and Lebron 22 FGA with 28.6 on 48.2%. Westbrook shot 43.3% with his 27 a game.

So even though the pace was a lot faster back then, Wilt's shot attempts in the 64 finals were the same as Westbrook's (120). And he shot a higher percentage relative to the team averages than Durant did.

So I don't think adjusting for pace would have effected Wilt's numbers for that finals. Now rebounding, yes, that would go down.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Didn't see him play, can't comment.

:biggums:

[riseagainst]

Didn't see him play, can't comment.

We know, you started watching basketball in 2011, which would actually be a generous date, my guess is 2012.

[millwad]

Let's take the 1964 Finals with Boston vs San Fran which Boston won in 5 games:

The average score was 105.2 - 101.2. Boston averaged 99 FGA a game, and SF averaged about 97. The FG% was a low 40.7 to 39.0. So a defensive struggle with a faster pace.

Wilt had the most FGA with 24 a game. He averaged 29.2 on 51.7% FG shooting, which is much better than the averages.

In the 2012 finals, Westbrook had the most with 24 attempts a game. Durant averaged 21 on 54.8% shooting, and Lebron 22 FGA with 28.6 on 48.2%. Westbrook shot 43.3% with his 27 a game.

So even though the pace was a lot faster back then, Wilt's shot attempts in the 64 finals were the same as Westbrook's (120). And he shot a higher percentage relative to the team averages than Durant did.

So I don't think adjusting for pace would have effected Wilt's numbers for that finals. Now rebounding, yes, that would go down.

I like that you took the one finals series where he scored the most out of 6 finals..

Even if you want to pick that series, adjust both the pace and his playing time to the modern era and his scoring looks so less impressive.

Wilt is extremely overrated in terms of scoring..

[Marchesk]

Even if you want to pick that series, adjust both the pace and his playing time to the modern era and his scoring looks so less impressive.

Westbrook had the same amount of FGA (120) in 2012 that Wilt did in the 1964 Finals. Lebron had 108. Durant had like 105.

Are you saying that Wilt in his scoring prime would get less attempts with modern pacing, when he's by far the most efficient player on the floor? If we're going to adjust his minutes and the pace, then the shot selection is going to be adjusted to increase efficiency. So if Wilt's touches go down, his FG% goes up.

[millwad]

Westbrook had the same amount of FGA (120) in 2012 that Wilt did in the 1964 Finals. Lebron had 108. Durant had like 105.

Are you saying that Wilt in his scoring prime would get less attempts with modern pacing, when he's by far the most efficient player on the floor? If we're going to adjust his minutes and the pace, then the shot selection is going to be adjusted to increase efficiency. So if Wilt's touches go down, his FG% goes up.

You're obviously not reading my posts, if you adjust the pace to modern era pace and adjust Wilt's minutes you'll have a player who scores less. Right?

The amount of touches goes down due a slower pace and less playing time and when touches goes down, the scoring does as well.

[Marchesk]

You're obviously not reading my posts, if you adjust the pace to modern era pace and adjust Wilt's minutes you'll have a player who scores less. Right?

The amount of touches goes down due a slower pace and less playing time and when touches goes down, the scoring does as well.

Except that Westbrook had the same amount of FGA as Wilt did. Other posters have pointed out that pace reduction doesn't effect stars getting touches.

[millwad]

Except that Westbrook had the same amount of FGA as Wilt did. Other posters have pointed out that pace reduction doesn't effect stars getting touches.

Other posters in this case is "Jlauber" and that is less worth than garbage.

Westbrook has nothing to do with it and it's a stupid statement from you, so if the pace would be slower and a player's minutes would be less, would it have any impact on his rebounding then?

Obviously yes, and the same with scoring. You don't score the same amount of points when you play less minutes and at a slower pace. It's simple, I don't even understand why you're trying to discuss this, not even the biggest Wilt fans would have anything to say about this.

[LAZERUSS]

The facts were, Chamberlain's teams, even with pathetic supporting casts, were on at least two occasions, the biggest obstacle in Boston's path to a title.

Chamberlain took his 61-62 Warriors, with the core of his supporting cast the remnants of the last place roster he inherited in his rookie season, to a 49-31 record, and single-handedly carried them past a Syracuse team in the first round, and then to a game seven, two-point loss against the 60-20 HOF-laden Celtics in the EDF's. And a Wilt who was swarmed by the Celtics, still averaged 33.6 ppg, 26.9 rpg, and shot .468 from the field (and .641 from the line) in a post-season which averaged 112 ppg on .411 shooting. A 54-26 Laker team with Baylor and West, and considerably more talent overall, lost a game seven, in OT, in the Finals to Boston.

And in Chamberlain's 64-65 season, in which he was traded mid-season to a Sixer's team that had gone 34-46 the year before, and failed to make the playoffs, ...Wilt carried them past the 48-32, and stacked, Royals team in a first round romp. Then, in the EDF's, and against another HOF-laden Celtic team that had their best record in their dynasty run, of 62-18, Wilt averaged 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and shot .555 from the field (in a post-season NBA that shot .429), all while taking his 40-40 Sixers to a game seven, one point loss (and all Wilt did in that game was score 30 points, on 12-15 shooting from the field, with 32 rebounds.) BTW, Chamberlain's true TS% (which is slightly lower than the flawed TS%'s usually quoted), was .560 in a post-season NBA that had a true TS% of .478...or a staggering +8.2 higher FG%.

Russell's Celtics would go on to rout the Baylor-less Lakers in the Finals, 4-1, in a series in which Russell averaged 18 ppg on a .702 FG%. In the EDF's, and against Wilt, Russell had averaged 15.6 ppg on a .447 FG% (and was outshot by Wilt from the line, .583 to .472.)

So, this supposedly "non-scoring" Wilt, had two post-season runs, against a player (and his swarming teammates) that is regarded as the greatest defensive center in NBA history, of 34 and 30 ppg.

Of course, in Wilt's 63-64 playoff run, Millwad claims that he had an "easy' road to the Finals.

How about this article on that '64 Warrior team...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1075691/2/index.htm

[QUOTE]So are the Warriors, a team that lists on its roster some of the slowest players and worst shooters ever to play in the NBA. With just 14 games remaining in the regular season, [B]San Francisco

[LAZERUSS]

Here is a breakdown of a "scoring" Chamberlain in the post-season...


Here are Chamberlain's AND his opposing center's scoring games in Wilt's PRIME from 59-60 thru 67-68...all 80 of them. BTW, Wilt played in 160 playoff games, and these were exactly half of them.

Incidently, Wilt' "scoring" prime was from 59-60 thru 65-66.


Some other sidenotes:

1. Wilt outshot Russell from the field in the '62 ECF's, .468 to .420 (a close approximation.)

2. Chamberlain shot .559 in the '64 WCF's (while scoring 38.6 ppg)

3. Chamberlain shot .517 against Russell in the '64 Finals, and outscored him per game, 29.2 to 11.2 ppg . and outshot Russell from the field by a .517 to .386 margin.

4. Russell shot .447 against Wilt in the '65 playoffs (and .702 against LA in the Finals.)

5. Wilt shot .509 against Russell in the '66 ECF's (while averaging 28 ppg and 30.2 rpg)

6. Wilt outshot Russell in the '67 ECF's by a .556 to .358 margin.

7. Wilt outshot Thurmond in the '67 Finals by a .560 to .343 margin.

8. Wilt held Bellamy to .421 shooting in the '68 playoffs (Bellamy shot .541 against the league that season.)


Quote:
Prime "Scoring" Wilt

1. 35-5
2. 28-25
3. 53-7
4. 42-19 *
5. 29-15 *
6. 12-26 *
7. 24-17 *
8. 50-22 *
9. 26-25 *
10. 46-15
11. 32-12
12. 33-7
13. 32-9
14. 28-18
15. 40-14
16. 29-27
17. 56-20
18. 33-16 *
19. 42-9 *
20. 35-31 *
21. 41-31 *
22. 30-29 *
23. 32-19 *
24. 22-19 *
25. 37-24
26. 28-4
27. 46-22
28. 36-14
29. 50-6
30. 34-20
31. 39-10
32. 22-9 *
33. 32-9 *
34. 35-16 *
35. 27-8 *
36. 30-14 *
37. 26-18
38. 30-10
39. 17-16
40. 38-7
41. 33-11 *
42. 30-12 *
43. 24-19 *
44. 34-18 *
45. 30-12 *
46. 30-22 *
47. 30-15 *
48. 25-13 *
49. 23-10 *
50. 31-11 *
51. 15-18 *
52. 46-18 *


Wilt from 66-67 thru 67-68


53. 41-29
54. 37-21
55. 16-12
56. 18-8
57. 24-20 *
58. 15-14 *
59. 20-10 *
60. 20-9 *
61. 29-4 *
62. 16-24 **
63. 10-7 **
64. 26-17 **
65. 10-8 **
66. 20-17 **
67. 24-12 **
68. 37-14 ***
69. 24-26 ***
70. 18-22 ***
71. 23-28 ***
72. 26-11 ***
73. 25-19 ***
74. 33-11 *
75. 15-11 *
76. 23-13 *
77. 22-24 *
78. 28-8 *
79. 20-17 *
80. 14-12 *

* denotes games against Russell
** denotes games against Thurmond
*** denotes games against Bellamy



Wilt outscored his opposing centers in 49 of his first 50 playoff games (and 50 of 52 in his "scoring" prime overall) MANY by HUGE margins.

Overall, in Wilt's first 80 playoff games, covering his PRIME years, he outscored his opposing starting center in 73 of them.

The Wilt who "declined" in the post-season...

[LAZERUSS]

Westbrook had the same amount of FGA (120) in 2012 that Wilt did in the 1964 Finals. Lebron had 108. Durant had like 105.

Are you saying that Wilt in his scoring prime would get less attempts with modern pacing, when he's by far the most efficient player on the floor? If we're going to adjust his minutes and the pace, then the shot selection is going to be adjusted to increase efficiency. So if Wilt's touches go down, his FG% goes up.

This is right on.

Contrary to the popular myths here, Wilt was not a shot-jacker in the post-season. He certainly could have taken more shots, though. In his 61-62 EDF's against Russell, he averaged 27.8 FGAs per game, in a post-season NBA tat averaged 99 FGA per game, and scored 33.6 ppg. He "only" shot .468 from the field, but it came in a post-season NBA that shot an efg% of .411. He shot a true TS% of .497, in a post-season NBA that shot a true TS% of .462.

Contrast that with Hakeem's '95 Finals. He averaged 32.8 ppg, but on 29 FGAs per game, in a post-season NBA that averaged 78 FGAs per game. Furthermore, his eFG% was .487, in a post-season NBA that had an eFG% of .504. His true TS% in that series was .508, in a post-season NBA that had a true TS% of .541.

And, an even greater example...

In the '65 EDF's, and again, against Russell, Wilt averaged 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and shot an eFG% of .555 from the field (in a post-season NBA that shot an eFG% of .429), all while taking his 40-40 Sixers to a game seven, one point loss (and all Wilt did in that game was score 30 points, on 12-15 shooting from the field, with 32 rebounds.) BTW, Chamberlain's true TS% in that series (which is slightly lower than the flawed TS%'s usually quoted), was .560 in a post-season NBA that had a true TS% of .478...or a staggering +8.2 higher FG%.

[millwad]

This is right on.

Contrary to the popular myths here, Wilt was not a shot-jacker in the post-season. He certainly could have taken more shots, though. In his 61-62 EDF's against Russell, he averaged 27.8 FGAs per game, in a post-season NBA tat averaged 99 FGA per game, and scored 33.6 ppg. He "only" shot .468 from the field, but it came in a post-season NBA that shot an efg% of .411. He shot a true TS% of .497, in a post-season NBA that shot a true TS% of .462.


So he was only a shot-jacker in the regular season? What's funny is that Wilt's FG% went down in the playoffs as well.



Contrast that with Hakeem's '95 Finals. He averaged 32.8 ppg, but on 29 FGAs per game, in a post-season NBA that averaged 78 FGAs per game. Furthermore, his eFG% was .487, in a post-season NBA that had an eFG% of .504. His true TS% in that series was .508, in a post-season NBA that had a true TS% of .541.


Please, Olajuwon totally rapes Wilt in terms of finals play. And Olajuwon faced more double and triple teams in the finals then what Wilt ever did during his career. Olajuwon won while scoring like crazy, Wilt won while letting others score.

Wilt won once in '67 while averaging 17.7 points per game on 56% shooting and horrible 30% FT-shooting.

In the '67 finals Wilt had freaking 4 teammates by his side who scored more points per game compared to Wilt. In fact, Wilt scored the least amount of points in the starting 5.

And then he won in '72 while scoring the third most for the Lakers per game and he was guarded by 6'8 Jerry Lucas.. :facepalm

So much for his amazing scoring, while winning he scored the 5th most for his team in the finals and the 3rd most.. Most overrated scorer of all-time.

[LAZERUSS]

So he was only a shot-jacker in the regular season? What's funny is that Wilt's FG% went down in the playoffs as well.



Please, Olajuwon totally rapes Wilt in terms of finals play. And Olajuwon faced more double and triple teams in the finals then what Wilt ever did during his career. Olajuwon won while scoring like crazy, Wilt won while letting others score.

Wilt won once in '67 while averaging 17.7 points per game on 56% shooting and horrible 30% FT-shooting.

In the '67 finals Wilt had freaking 4 teammates by his side who scored more points per game compared to Wilt. In fact, Wilt scored the least amount of points in the starting 5.

And then he won in '72 while scoring the third most for the Lakers per game and he was guarded by 6'8 Jerry Lucas.. :facepalm

So much for his amazing scoring, while winning he scored the 5th most for his team in the finals and the 3rd most.. Most overrated scorer of all-time.


Chamberlain faced FAR more double, triple, and SWARMING BRUTAL defenses than ANY other player in NBA history.

Of course you already KNOW that.

But for those that don't...

here we go again...

http://biography.jrank.org/pages/2336/Chamberlain-Wilt.html



His college career was likewise spectacular. Named an All-American in both his sophomore and junior years, Chamberlain led Kansas to the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) finals in the spring of 1957. Several of the rules of college basketball had to be changed as a result of Chamberlain's talents, which simply dwarfed those of previous players. Opposing players double-and triple-teamed him and played a slowed-down game rather than attempt to confront Chamberlain's offensive skills head-on. These techniques helped the University of North Carolina defeat Kansas 54-53 in triple overtime in the 1957 championship game.


Such tactics also frustrated the rapidly developing Chamberlain, who startled the basketball world by turning professional rather than returning to Kansas for his senior year. NBA rules forbade him from joining the league until the year in which he would have graduated from college, so Chamberlain played for the razzle-dazzle touring professional team the Harlem Globetrotters during the 1958-59 season. He joined the Philadelphia Warriors in 1959, having already collected a large bonus for signing.


Chamberlain was an NBA star from the beginning, leading the league in scoring and rebounding, and taking home honors not only for Rookie of the Year but also for Most Valuable Player. Frustrated by defensive tactics similar to those he had faced in college, and by what he considered biased officiating, he threatened to leave the league and return to the Globetrotters in 1960. But he did not follow through on his threat, and soon learned to outmaneuver his tormentors through sheer size, speed, and skill. In the 1960-61 season he led the league in scoring once again; he would not relinquish his position atop the league's scoring lists for another five seasons.





http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_bio.html




In Chamberlain's first year, and for several years afterward, opposing teams simply didn't know how to handle him. Tom Heinsohn, the great Celtics forward who later became a coach and broadcaster, said Boston was one of the first clubs to apply a team-defense concept to stop Chamberlain. "We went for his weakness," Heinsohn told the Philadelphia Daily News in 1991, "tried to send him to the foul line, and in doing that he took the most brutal pounding of any player ever.. I hear people today talk about hard fouls. Half the fouls against him were hard fouls."




http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,869479,00.html




He stood there, just to the right of the basket, a placid. 7-ft. 1 1/16-in, giant watching impassively as his teammates maneuvered the ball in backcourt. The New York Knickerbockers tried to box him in; they clutched at his jersey, leaned against his chest, stepped on his toes. Then Wilt Chamberlain came alive. With the aplomb of a cop palming an apple, he reached out one massive hand and plucked the basketball out of the air. Spinning violently, he ripped clear of the elbowing surge, took a step toward the basket and jumped. For an instant, he seemed suspended in midair, his head on a level with the 10-ft.-high basket. Slowly, gently, the ball dribbled off his fingertips, through the net, and the San Francisco Warriors went on to a 142-134 victory. New York Coach Ed Donovan sadly shook his head. "He's phenomenal." he sighed. "How does anyone stop Wilt Chamberlain?"

Most basketball stars have one great talent: Russell's is defense, Elgin Baylor's is shooting, Bob Cousy's is setting up plays and passing. Chamberlain does almost everything, better than anyone else. He is the pros' fiercest rebounder, and his shooting repertory includes such inimitable specialties as the "Dipper Dunk" (in which he simply stretches up and lays the ball in the basket), the "Stuff Shot" (in which he jumps up and rams the ball through the net from above), and the "Fadeaway Jump"—a delicate, marvelously coordinated push shot from 15 ft. away that defensive men literally cannot block without fouling.





http://wiltfan.tripod.com/quotes.html




"I would talk to Wilt about all the players pounding on him. Sometimes, he said he didn't notice it--he was so strong. But I also believe that there were two sets of rules. By that, I mean because Wilt was so strong, the officials let the man guarding him get away with more--almost trying to equalize the game. I also believe that Wilt just took it because he didn't want to get thrown out, and because ithad always been like that with him. But I'd watch it and I'd get mad. It takes me a while to get my temper going, but when it does--look out. I'd see what the other players were doing to Wilt and what the officials were allowing, and I'd get more upset than if it were happening to me. So I jumped in there. It wasn't that Wilt couldn't defend himself. If he ever got really hot, he'd kill people, so he let things pass. But I didn't have to worry about that. I was strong for my size, but I was not about to do anything like the kind of damage would."
--Al Attles, Tall Tales (by Terry Pluto) p. 242



Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

And how about this article from a CELTIC forum...

http://samcelt.forumotion.net/t2803-wilt-meets-bill-and-tommy-4000-words

[QUOTE]

At 7

[LAZERUSS]

So he was only a shot-jacker in the regular season? What's funny is that Wilt's FG% went down in the playoffs as well.



Of course, this topic relates to the Finals...

Hakeem in his three Finals? He shot .500, .483, and .479 from the floor.

Chamberlain in his six Finals? Wilt shot .517, .525, 534, .560, .600, and .625.

And you can look up the LEAGUE AVERAGE (or eFG%'s) during those post-seasons, as well. Chamberlain was shooting MILES above his peers, while Hakeem couldn't even shoot the post-season league FG% in his '86 Finals (and was well below the eFG% mark), or the eFG% in his Finals in '95 (while Shaq was just blowing it away.)

How about Wilt in his two game seven's of the Finals? He shot 17-24 from the floor, or .709.

How about Hakeem in his one game seven in the Finals? 10-25, or .400.

As for scoring, Chamberlain was the leading scorer, rebounder, assists, FG%, TS%, most certainly shot-blocker, TRB%, Off-reb, Def reb., defensive Win-Share, Offensive Win-Share, Total Win Shares...on the 68-13 world champion Sixers.

He also averaged 21.7 ppg in the playoffs that season, on a .579 FG%, while leading scorer Greer averaged 27.7 ppg on a .429%. Of course, in the BIG games in that post-season, it was WILT who dominated. While Greer was having a horrible title-clinching game six, Chamberlain completely shelled a helpless Thurmond. Just as Wilt did to Russell in the EDF's clinching game five. Oh, and Chamberlain also had the Sixers playoff high game, of 41 points that post-season run.

Of course, Chamberlain also averaged 9.0 apg in the '67 playoffs, as well as 29.1 rpg.

Chamberlain's domination of Russell and Thumond in his title run was much more impressive than Hakeem's outplaying Ewing in '94 (and BTW, has there ever been a weaker cast of "centers" in a playoff run, than what Hakeem faced in '94? I'm not even sure he faced a LEGITIMATE center in the first thee rounds, much less a good one.)

And we already know that Shaq pounded Hakeem in the '95 Finals. If Hakeem's teammates had not thoroughly outplayed Shaq's (and they collectively shot a much higher TS% than Hakeem BTW...as did Shaq), that Shaq would have won his first ring that season.

And, as for playoff scoring, a PRIME Chamberlain scored FAR more than a prime Hakeem. In his first seven seasons, Wilt AVERAGED 32.8 ppg, on.515 shooting (in leagues that shot .428 on average), with 26.7 rpg, 4.5 apg, and probably 8+ blocks. 40-and-50 point games were common (Wilt had FOUR 50+ point games...three of which were in "must-win" games.)

Not only that, but Chamberlain was just trashing his opposing centers in every category along the way.

[millwad]

Jlauber, you ****ing clown, can you for once not derail a thread with non-relevant bogus?

Such a garbage poster, you don't even reply to the topic, you go off topic all the time and you spam like crazy. If you're quoting a post, reply it and don't go on ****ing rants.

[millwad]

Chamberlain faced FAR more double, triple, and SWARMING BRUTAL defenses than ANY other player in NBA history.

Of course you already KNOW that.

But for those that don't...

here we go again...


This is nothing but revisionist history and a BS claim.

It's not 2005, we now have plenty of Wilt footage which completely destroys your myth about Wilt being swarmed by the defense and that he was constantly double and tripled team.

I've searched for alot of footage that would prove your nonsense to be the truth but it was nothing but lies. In fact, not only didn't he face modern era double and triple teams, he barely faced any at all. I still recall seeing highlights from a game against Russell where he scored like crazy, a regular season game of course since it's Wilt, and the Celtics didn't double Wilt at all, not even once.

Since we now have plenty of footage that could prove me wrong, please let us all see. And I don't mean one time only, I mean through-out the game.

[millwad]

Of course, this topic relates to the Finals...

Hakeem in his three Finals? He shot .500, .483, and .479 from the floor.


Haha, seriously.

Hakeem destroys Wilt in terms of finals performance and Hakeem actually won 2 out those 3 finals and he dominated in all of them.



Chamberlain in his six Finals? Wilt shot .517, .525, 534, .560, .600, and .625.


Then you look at his FT %, he made a pathetic 37.5% of his FT-attempts. And not only that, Wilt only averaged 18.5 points per game during his finals runs. And in '67 he scored the least points among the starters for the 76ers... :facepalm



And you can look up the LEAGUE AVERAGE (or eFG%'s) during those post-seasons, as well. Chamberlain was shooting MILES above his peers, while Hakeem couldn't even shoot the post-season league FG% in his '86 Finals (and was well below the eFG% mark), or the eFG% in his Finals in '95 (while Shaq was just blowing it away.)


Wilt was head's taller than everyone else and he barely faced any double or triple teams AND the defensive schemes can't be compared to modern era one's. And it's funny that you mention the '86 finals, Olajuwon completely destroyed the Celtic bigs in his 2nd pro season and he faced the HOF:ers Parish and Walton..




How about Wilt in his two game seven's of the Finals? He shot 17-24 from the floor, or .709.


How about not cherry picking? And how about the fact that the choker Wilt lost both of those games.



How about Hakeem in his one game seven in the Finals? 10-25, or .400.


While facing triple team through-out the game and while completely destroying Ewing and while almost getting a triple team, while winning the actual game.. unlike Wilt.



As for scoring, Chamberlain was the leading scorer, rebounder, assists, FG%, TS%, most certainly shot-blocker, TRB%, Off-reb, Def reb., defensive Win-Share, Offensive Win-Share, Total Win Shares...on the 68-13 world champion Sixers.


And he scored the least points in the finals among the starting 5.. :facepalm



He also averaged 21.7 ppg in the playoffs that season, on a .579 FG%, while leading scorer Greer averaged 27.7 ppg on a .429%. Of course, in the BIG games in that post-season, it was WILT who dominated. While Greer was having a horrible title-clinching game six, Chamberlain completely shelled a helpless Thurmond. Just as Wilt did to Russell in the EDF's clinching game five. Oh, and Chamberlain also had the Sixers playoff high game, of 41 points that post-season run.


Why do you comtinue spamming about Wilt's FG% in comparison with guards? Are you really this stupid or what is this nonsense about? Centers shoot with higher FG% than guards. It's no secret.

And as far as Wilt dominating, it wasn't in terms of scoring which this thread is about. Wilt was the 5th best scorer in the finals for the 76ers in '67 which is laughable.



Of course, Chamberlain also averaged 9.0 apg in the '67 playoffs, as well as 29.1 rpg.


And of course he was scored the least points in the starting 5 and of course he played in a high-tempo era.



Chamberlain's domination of Russell and Thumond in his title run was much more impressive than Hakeem's outplaying Ewing in '94 (and BTW, has there ever been a weaker cast of "centers" in a playoff run, than what Hakeem faced in '94? I'm not even sure he faced a LEGITIMATE center in the first thee rounds, much less a good one.)


Haha, this is so laughable. This is like the most laughable statement you've ever come with. Both Russell and Thurmond were terrible scorers and one dimensional and they shot with horrible FG%. Hakeem during his title run's faced 3 very versatile top 10 centers and he outplayed all of them.

And yeah, weaker cast of centers in a playoff run is easily in '72. Wilt first faced Clifford Ray, then he got outscored with 23 points per game by Kareem and in the finals he faced the midget Knicks without Reed. Laughable competition.

In '67 Wilt was the freaking tied 2nd option and he scored the least points in the starting 5 in the finals which is just sad.

And in '72 he was completely destroyed by Kareem who would easily have won that series if his team wouldn't have sucked. He shelled, abused and slaughtered old Wilt a la outscoring him with 23 points per game. And in the finals he didn't have to face Reed.



And we already know that Shaq pounded Hakeem in the '95 Finals. If Hakeem's teammates had not thoroughly outplayed Shaq's (and they collectively shot a much higher TS% than Hakeem BTW...as did Shaq), that Shaq would have won his first ring that season.


This is laughable, no one has ever given Shaq the edge in this finals. He got outplayed in the eyes of everyone but yours, even Shaq himself gives the edge to Olajuwon. This only proves that you actually only say it because you're butthurt. Your logic regarding this series is so terrible and only proves that you're a hypocrite.

Shaq averaged the most turnovers for a center in 4 game finals series in NBA history and he came up short during several occassions and he was just outplayed, fair and simple. And at the same time you are the first one to lie about Kareem getting outplayed by Wilt while outscoring Wilt with 23 points per game.



And, as for playoff scoring, a PRIME Chamberlain scored FAR more than a prime Hakeem. In his first seven seasons, Wilt AVERAGED 32.8 ppg, on.515 shooting (in leagues that shot .428 on average), with 26.7 rpg, 4.5 apg, and probably 8+ blocks. 40-and-50 point games were common (Wilt had FOUR 50+ point games...three of which were in "must-win" games.)


Prime scoring Wilt won 0 rings, prime scoring Olajuwon won two. Wilt won while being the 4th option on offense and tied 2nd option and while being the one who scored the least points in the starting 5 in the finals in '67.



Not only that, but Chamberlain was just trashing his opposing centers in every category along the way.
[/QUOTE]

Haha, yeah, he surely trashed Kareem.

Kareem outscored Wilt by amazing 23 points per game, he shot the ball with higher FG% than Wilt, he outassisted Wilt, he shot FT's better than Wilt and he barely got outrebounded by Wilt.. FAILURE..

[RRR3]

Wilt>Hakeem

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt>Hakeem

Without question. In every facet of the game (and he MADE more FTs BTW), including winning. Hakeem is the most over-rated player on this Forum. Here was a guy who only finished in the Top-2 in the MVP balloting, TWICE, in his 18 seasons, and in the year he atually won it, Jordan was playing baseball. He was only in the Top-4, FOUR times, as well. In fact, he was only in the Top-10 in HALF of his career.

The man won a title in '94 by going against a cast of clowns at the center position in the first three rounds (in fact, you would be hard-pressed to find an actual center in the group, and the one that he play against was stumble-bum Felton Spencer.) Furthermore, Jordan was not on a Bulls team that went 55-27, and narrowly lost a close seven game series to a very ordinary Knicks team in the ECF's...a Knicks team that barely lost a seventh game to Hakeem's Rockets in the Finals.

And we know that Shaq had virtually no help against Hakeem's Rockets in the '95 Finals. While Shaw was putting up a true TS% of .589 in that series, his teammates had a true TS% of .533. Meanwhile, Hakeem was shooting well below his own teammates. He had a ridiculously low .508 true TS%, while his teammates had a phenomenal .589. All in a post-season NBA that had a .541 true TS%, and an eFG% of .504. Talk about being carried! And in their actual h2h paint battles, (and thanks to Colts18 who actually analyzed what everyone can plainly see):

Here are their stats when they were guarded by each other:
Shaq 32-57 (56.1 FG%), 6-8 FT, 67.3 double teamed%, .578 TS%, 17 assists, 1 O-reb allowed to Hakeem
Hakeem: 31-75 (41.3 FG%), 9-13 FT, 60.2 double teamed%, .446 TS%, 8 assists, 3 O-reb allowed to Shaq.


And how about the rest of Hakeem's post-season career?

The man played for 18 seasons, and made it to the playoffs in 15 of them. In over HALF, he and his teams were eliminated in the FIRST ROUND (EIGHT times), and even in those, they were ROUTED in FIVE of them.

Once again...the most over-rated player on the Forum. He is a borderline Top-10 player, at best. In fact, Lebron has already passed him. And Moses probably has a better case, as well. Hakeem is likely somewhere around 11th or 12th on any rational list.

[sundizz]

Without question. In every facet of the game (and he MADE more FTs BTW), including winning.

Sad, delusion fool. I think this is similar to Dexter....Wilt must of done some weird stuff to you as a child for you to have this Stockholm syndrome.

[Marchesk]

Sad, delusion fool. I think this is similar to Dexter....Wilt must of done some weird stuff to you as a child for you to have this Stockholm syndrome.

Thing is that other posters who either saw Wilt's era or have done the research agree that Wilt was greater than Hakeem. Some might disagree on Russell or Kareem in comparison to Wilt, but not anyone after. The only possible exception is peak Shaq.

Most top 10 lists have Wilt in the top 5 and Hakeem in the top 10.

[La Frescobaldi]

Thing is that other posters who either saw Wilt's era or have done the research agree that Wilt was greater than Hakeem. Some might disagree on Russell or Kareem in comparison to Wilt, but not anyone after. The only possible exception is peak Shaq.

Most top 10 lists have Wilt in the top 5 and Hakeem in the top 10.

Wilt gets attacked by people who never saw him and think it's impossible that someone could have been that far above the rest of the league. There's some kind of psychological twist that makes many people desperate to belittle something they can't understand.

Like this thread, for example. Even if you didn't watch games in those days, anyone who can read still knows it's an absurdity to use career stats as any measure of Chamberlain's impact in the last half of his career, since he was a defensive specialist for much of it. He was throwing down 20 20 games as late as the '72 & '73 Finals.

Chamberlain's early career was much like LeBron's in Cleveland - surrounded by a bunch of second rate players and weak minded coaches. And, in much of his later career his teammates were in the hospital.... literally.

But since these guys who bash him in threads like this one never saw him & since they can't be bothered to read with a critical mind, or possibly can't do that at all... they are just lost. Makes it tough to have good conversations about him or that era.

[KingBeasley08]

I was always a Wilt guy but Millwad just destroyed jlauber. Hakeem >>>> Wilt

[Marchesk]

I was always a Wilt guy but Millwad just destroyed jlauber. Hakeem >>>> Wilt

Let's not forget the eight first round exits, and that a certain player went off to play baseball while Hakeem won titles.

[sundizz]

Wilt sucks. Lol. Millwad destroyed him. This + my post about his pathetic scoring drop in the playoffs. The Wilt stans are in recede just state nonsense statistics mode. The main statistics aren't on his side when it comes to his less than stellar play in the playoffs. He's a chump. True story.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt sucks. Lol. Millwad destroyed him. This + my post about his pathetic scoring drop in the playoffs. The Wilt stans are in recede just state nonsense statistics mode. The main statistics aren't on his side when it comes to his less than stellar play in the playoffs. He's a chump. True story.

Of course, a prime "scoring" Chamberlain was averaging 33 ppg, 27 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shooting .515 from the field (in a post-seasons in which the NBA shot about .428 on average)...in his first 52 playoff games...30 of which were against Russell and his swarming Celtics.

Give me a list of players who had a 33-27-5 .515 GAME (and probably with 8+ blocks, as well) in their post-season careers?

And aside from MJ, give me the list of players who put up FOUR 50+ point playoff games (three of which were in "must-win" situations, and one of which came against Russell... a 50-35 game BTW)? Oh, and a high regulation playoff game of 56 points while you are at it (and in yet another "must-win" game...and with 35 rebounds in the same game.)

Or give me a list of players, who played in "at the brink elimination games" who averaged 30 ppg, 26 rpg, and shot nearly .600 from the floor? (Wilt played in 11 BTW)...all while badly out-rebounding, badly outshooting, and slaugthering their opposing centers in scoring in the process (outscoring them by a 29-9 average in those games)?

Give me a list of players who put up a 45-27, 20-27 FGM-FGA attempt Finals' "must-win" game?

Give me a list of players who faced a HOF starting center in 105 of their 160 post-season games, and then another multiple all-star in 26 more?

But, yes, Chamberlain declined dramatically in the post-season...

[millwad]

Thing is that other posters who either saw Wilt's era or have done the research agree that Wilt was greater than Hakeem. Some might disagree on Russell or Kareem in comparison to Wilt, but not anyone after. The only possible exception is peak Shaq.

Most top 10 lists have Wilt in the top 5 and Hakeem in the top 10.

I have done plenty of research, plenty of posters have done research and the most famous Jlauber ownage took part when Fatal9 completely destroyed Jlauber who didn't even see Wilt play to start with.

Shaq put it all in great reasoning, guys like Wilt and Russell are great but it is what is, they played in a less developed league against less talented players which is the truth.

[millwad]

Thing is that other posters who either saw Wilt's era or have done the research agree that Wilt was greater than Hakeem. Some might disagree on Russell or Kareem in comparison to Wilt, but not anyone after. The only possible exception is peak Shaq.

Most top 10 lists have Wilt in the top 5 and Hakeem in the top 10.

I have done plenty of research, plenty of posters have done research and the most famous Jlauber ownage took part when Fatal9 completely destroyed Jlauber who didn't even see Wilt play to start with.

Shaq put it all in great reasoning, guys like Wilt and Russell but it is what is, they played in a less developed league against less talented players which is the truth.

[millwad]

Of course, a prime "scoring" Chamberlain was averaging 33 ppg, 27 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shooting .515 from the field (in a post-seasons in which the NBA shot about .428 on average)...in his first 52 playoff games...30 of which were against Russell and his swarming Celtics. .

While winning nothing at all, and since you keep spamming about the swarming Celtics and the NBA, give us some footage that proves your nonsense.



Give me a list of players who had a 33-27-5 .515 GAME (and probably with 8+ blocks, as well) in their post-season careers?
.

Well, Wilt didn't have those stats as an average so cherry picking is just lame in this situation. Wilt didn't win smack during his scoring prime.



And aside from MJ, give me the list of players who put up FOUR 50+ point playoff games (three of which were in "must-win" situations, and one of which came against Russell... a 50-35 game BTW)? Oh, and a high regulation playoff game of 56 points while you are at it (and in yet another "must-win" game...and with 35 rebounds in the same game.).


Wilt didn't win shit while scoring 50 points in a playoff-game.



Or give me a list of players, who played in "at the brink elimination games" who averaged 30 ppg, 26 rpg, and shot nearly .600 from the floor? (Wilt played in 11 BTW)...all while badly out-rebounding, badly outshooting, and slaugthering their opposing centers in scoring in the process (outscoring them by a 29-9 average in those games)?
.


Dude, all this bogus cherry picking is just laughable.



Give me a list of players who put up a 45-27, 20-27 FGM-FGA attempt Finals' "must-win" game?
.

He averaged 18.5 points per game in the finals, stop cherry picking.



But, yes, Chamberlain declined dramatically in the post-season...

Of course he did, he dropped with freaking 8 points per game in the playoffs, he dropped even more in the finals and he lost 4 out of 6 times in the finals. While winning he was the 5th leading scorer in the '67 finals for his team and in '72 he scored the fourth most for his team in the playoffs.
.

All you do is cherry picking which is pathetic.

[millwad]

Let's not forget the eight first round exits, and that a certain player went off to play baseball while Hakeem won titles.

It's funny that you're a copy of Jlauber, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if you'd be one of his many accounts.

But since you used that nonsense as an argument, please point out what years Olajuwon should have made it further.

And you're a clown for mentioning Jordan, Olajuwon was in fact the only superstar player who had a winning record against MJ. And in fact MJ was back in '95 and he got beaten by Shaq and Penny who later got swept by Olajuwon and the Rockets.

And since you mention MJ, Wilt won his 2nd ring after Russell retired, prior to that he was Russell's bitch for 11 years..

[Marchesk]

But since you used that nonsense as an argument, please point out what years Olajuwon should have made it further.

Do the same for Wilt. You said he was Russell's bitch. Tell me what teams he was on that should have beaten the Celtics. Maybe later in his career?

I notice that you ignore that everyone was Russell's (the Celtics) bitch back then. What, no hate for West, Oscar, Baylor?


It's funny that you're a copy of Jlauber, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if you'd be one of his many accounts.

He has other accounts? I know about the Jlauber one from google before I registered here. Are you accusing the other Wilt fans of being his alt accounts? LOL.

Our styles aren't the same, sorry to disappoint. And I started watching during the 80s. MJ is my goat. Wilt is top 4 though. I feel no need to defend MJ, except when Lebron or Kobe stans go full retard.

[millwad]

Wilt gets attacked by people who never saw him and think it's impossible that someone could have been that far above the rest of the league. There's some kind of psychological twist that makes many people desperate to belittle something they can't understand.


This is such a worthless argument. So it's ok to have your tongue suck up and exaggerate all Wilt's accomplishments like you and Jlauber do. But it's not ok to criticize Wilt for obvious failures? Listen, if you want to live in your imaginary world and think that Wilt would be so crazy much ahead of the league, then Russell with limited offensive skills wouldn't be the one with 11 rings compared to Wilt's 2. And to think that all those 11 rings only had to do with Russell's teammates is laughable. Wilt played with plenty of HOF:ers and all-star through-out his career.



Like this thread, for example. Even if you didn't watch games in those days, anyone who can read still knows it's an absurdity to use career stats as any measure of Chamberlain's impact in the last half of his career, since he was a defensive specialist for much of it. He was throwing down 20 20 games as late as the '72 & '73 Finals.


Again a BS reply.
I've never seen you complain when Jlauber completely make up stuff and cherry picks certain games like there's no tomorrow but some how Wilt's career playoff average and finals average is bothering you. That is just beyond pathetic.

Wilt played in the finals 6 times, he never won while being the leading scorer in the playoffs nor the finals.

In the '67 finals he was the 5th highest scorer for his 76ers and he scored the least in the starting 5 and in the '72 finals he scored the third most in the finals and the 4th most in the playoffs for his Laker team.



Chamberlain's early career was much like LeBron's in Cleveland - surrounded by a bunch of second rate players and weak minded coaches. And, in much of his later career his teammates were in the hospital.... literally.


Now it starts again, blaming Wilt's teammates is so lame and laughable. Wilt had better teammates than most of the top 10 centers so it's not a valid argument.



But since these guys who bash him in threads like this one never saw him & since they can't be bothered to read with a critical mind, or possibly can't do that at all... they are just lost. Makes it tough to have good conversations about him or that era.

Oh, but you never saw him play either, neither did Jlauber but lying, cherry picking and playing with words in attempts to make Wilt look greater is not a bad thing obviously.

You're a sucker.

[millwad]

Do the same for Wilt. You said he was Russell's bitch. Tell me what teams he was on that should have beaten the Celtics. Maybe later in his career?



I wasn't the one who used the argument, you were the one, you idiot.
I have always given Russell's teammates credit for helping Russell but you're the one who mentioned that Olajuwon has 8 first round exits and then you went on to lie about MJ being away both years when Olajuwon won.

Do me a favour now, tell me what years he should have made it further.



I notice that you ignore that everyone was Russell's (the Celtics) bitch back then. What, no hate for West, Oscar, Baylor?



I don't ignore it, it's a fact and West, Oscar and Baylor are worse players than Chamberlain.



He has other accounts? I know about the Jlauber one from google before I registered here. Are you accusing the other Wilt fans of being his alt accounts? LOL.


Lazeruss is his second and since you basically use every one of his "punchlines" it's not a big surprise that someone would believe it. You have zero originality in your posts, you basically copy and paste the words of others which is beyond lame.



Our styles aren't the same, sorry to disappoint. And I started watching during the 80s. MJ is my goat. Wilt is top 4 though. I feel no need to defend MJ, except when Lebron or Kobe stans go full retard.

You don't disappoint, you only show ignorance and stupidity when you copy Jlauber's bogus. Use your own brain when you discuss.

[Marchesk]

You don't disappoint, you only show ignorance and stupidity when you copy Jlauber's bogus. Use your own brain when you discuss.

Do you really feel the need to make this personal? What did Jlauber do to you? Anyway, I'm not him and we don't have history, so you can drop the personal insults.

The point about Olajuwon's first round exists, and others have brought it up in here btw, is that great players lose when the team around them isn't good enough to win. MJ wasn't getting past the Pistons until Pippen and Grant had developed enough. Shaq got swept multiple times, a few when his team was favored. They weren't ready to win titles yet, and they didn't have the right coaching.

All that can be applied to Wilt's career, or at least part of it. I'm not claiming that Wilt is better than MJ or Kareem. But I'm also not going to be a hater and put him outside the top 10 like some do.

[millwad]

Do you really feel the need to make this personal? What did Jlauber do to you? Anyway, I'm not him and we don't have history, so you can drop the personal insults.


It's not an insult, it is what I consider to be the truth. I do consider a person who copies a bogus argument like that to be stupid, sorry.



The point about Olajuwon's first round exists, and others have brought it up in here btw, is that great players lose when the team around them isn't good enough to win. MJ wasn't getting past the Pistons until Pippen and Grant had developed enough. Shaq got swept multiple times, a few when his team was favored. They weren't ready to win titles yet, and they didn't have the right coaching.

So first you use Olajuwon's 8 first round exits as an argument and now you show understanding, you don't make sense.


All that can be applied to Wilt's career, or at least part of it. I'm not claiming that Wilt is better than MJ or Kareem. But I'm also not going to be a hater and put him outside the top 10 like some do.

The difference is that Wilt through out his career had much better supporting cast compared to Olajuwon and yet failed to win more titles which is the ultimate failure in my eyes. And while winning Wilt had much better teammates as well and dominated less and therefor he's lower on my all-time list compared to Olajuwon.

[sundizz]

Facts:
1. Wilt's scoring average as a whole, and Wilt's scoring average against other 'greats' is vastly different.

2. Wilt's scoring dropped substantially from regular season to playoffs.

3. Wilt was the worst free throw shooter of any top 10 center. Free throws is about %, not how many made overall. Everybody knows this.

4. Most of the people on here that talk about Wilt never actually watched him play. They've seen him play on video a few full games here and there. This is tantamount to scouting. We all saw Adam Morrison dominate in college basketball. In honesty, we weren't sure how it would translate to the NBA. How can someone watch a few games of someone from the 60's and honestly assess how good he'd be in today's NBA.

Legends:
1. Wilt fought mountain lions

2. Wilt shexed 20,000+ women

3. Wilt was unstoppable

4. Wilt has a threesome with Lazerus' mom and the mountain lion.

5. Lazerus bought Wilt DNA off ebay.

[KnicksWolves]

Before I had an account here, the whole jlauber and millwad dynamic always fascinated me. I just wanna get some things straight: is it commonly accepted that LAZERUSS is jlauber? I remember for a while that people were confused as to where jlauber had gone because he hadn't posted in a very long while. Did it just come to be that LAZERUSS eventually showed that he was jlauber? Or were those posts about R.I.P jlauber merely made in jest?

Also, I vaguely remember some weird incident where millwad went haywire and posted a bunch of jlauber quotes? Is millwad just an alternate of jlauber's and all this Wilt stuff is just something for the mastermind of these accounts to troll around with?

[b1imtf]

Lazeruss upset :roll:

[Miller for 3]

Before I had an account here, the whole jlauber and millwad dynamic always fascinated me. I just wanna get some things straight: is it commonly accepted that LAZERUSS is jlauber? I remember for a while that people were confused as to where jlauber had gone because he hadn't posted in a very long while. Did it just come to be that LAZERUSS eventually showed that he was jlauber? Or were those posts about R.I.P jlauber merely made in jest?

Also, I vaguely remember some weird incident where millwad went haywire and posted a bunch of jlauber quotes? Is millwad just an alternate of jlauber's and all this Wilt stuff is just something for the mastermind of these accounts to troll around with?

Millwad is Jlauber. He came clean a few months ago and said that he was Jlauber, and got tired of having alt accounts so he stoppd using the Jlauber sock account. But apparently he's bored or off his meds, so he started using Lazerrus, and possibly more alt accounts to have conversations with himself.

[KnicksWolves]

Millwad is Jlauber. He came clean a few months ago and said that he was Jlauber, and got tired of having alt accounts so he stoppd using the Jlauber sock account. But apparently he's bored or off his meds, so he started using Lazerrus, and possibly more alt accounts to have conversations with himself.

Ahh, I see. Thanks for the info. I have fond recollections of the verbal duels between jlauber and millwad when I first started visiting this forum. I wish he'd let the jlauber account make a return, heh.

[Element]

Jlauber doesnt seem to understand that pace isnt just a number you can adjust nilly willy

With Wilt's pace, the style of defense being played is different than the style being played today. Teams were getting many more transition and semi transition looks and defenses weren't set all the time due to the constant running. Mathematically adjusting the numbers for pace assumes same style of gameplay. Factoring in how the gameplay changes AND mathematically adjusting the numbers is the correct way to do it, but there's no way to do it. But let me tell you one thing: It makes Wilt look even worse. 24 FGA at a 105 pace isn't like 24 FGA at a 95 pace when defenses are set, teams aren't recklessly running and and as a result the guy taking 24 shots is getting way worse looks on average

[millwad]

Ahh, I see. Thanks for the info. I have fond recollections of the verbal duels between jlauber and millwad when I first started visiting this forum. I wish he'd let the jlauber account make a return, heh.

I'm obviously not Jlauber, I trolled some with claiming that I'm him and then I copied a couple of his posts from the most absurd thread ever where he was basically "discussing" with himself while posting pure essays about Wilt's dominance.

[millwad]

Jlauber doesnt seem to understand that pace isnt just a number you can adjust nilly willy

With Wilt's pace, the style of defense being played is different than the style being played today. Teams were getting many more transition and semi transition looks and defenses weren't set all the time due to the constant running. Mathematically adjusting the numbers for pace assumes same style of gameplay. Factoring in how the gameplay changes AND mathematically adjusting the numbers is the correct way to do it, but there's no way to do it. But let me tell you one thing: It makes Wilt look even worse. 24 FGA at a 105 pace isn't like 24 FGA at a 95 pace when defenses are set, teams aren't recklessly running and and as a result the guy taking 24 shots is getting way worse looks on average

Great post, so meaningless when idiots like Jlauber keep spamming about stats like they can be applied to the modern era.

[millwad]

Just so people don't forget, Jlauber never saw Wilt play, he's an old man who became obsessed with Wilt Chamberlain later in life and he changed his mind over short video clips on the net, quotes and stats.

This is what Jlauber used to stand for before;


Originally Posted by jlauber
“not to diminish guys like Russell and West, two great defenders...but defense back then was nowhere near as good as it is today.” – July 22, 2005

So much for his later claim that Wilt faced the most swarming defense and double and triple teams in NBA history.. :facepalm


Originally Posted by jlauber
“I know that this is getting away from the original post some, but most people tend to diminish Wilt's accomplishments because he was so much bigger, taller, stronger, and more athletic than his opposing centers. And it is true, that when Wilt was scoring 50 ppg, it was Russell at 6-9 and Bellamy at 6-11, and the rest were pretty much 6-8 or 6-9 "stiffs." – January 24, 2006

So much for Jlauber's later claims that Wilt played in the toughest center era of all-time when he was putting up his record scoring numbers.. :facepalm


Originally Posted by jlauber
“Wilt's competition in that 61-62 season was not stellar. Basically only Russell and Bellamy were anywhere near his ability...and neither could approach him in terms of statistical domination.” – May 5, 2007

No comment has to be made about this.


Originally Posted by jlauber
“I know both you and I will get some flak from "old-timers" about how great some of them were . . . , but realistically, todays basketball players, although many lacking in fundamental skills, are far superior to the players of the 60's.”

So much for his rants about how modern era ball is so much worse compared to Wilt's era.. :facepalm


Originally Posted by jlauber
“My personal opinion on athletics today is that, yes, today's athletes are generally bigger, stronger, faster, better trained, and better fed than those of 20 years ago or more.” – August 30, 2007

So much for his claims about how Wilt's era was the most athletic one..

Bottom line, this guy is a fraud and a clown and the truth is that he never saw the guy play back then. He changed his mind about Wilt and his era more than 40 years after the games were played..

[Psileas]

Jlauber doesnt seem to understand that pace isnt just a number you can adjust nilly willy

With Wilt's pace, the style of defense being played is different than the style being played today. Teams were getting many more transition and semi transition looks and defenses weren't set all the time due to the constant running. Mathematically adjusting the numbers for pace assumes same style of gameplay. Factoring in how the gameplay changes AND mathematically adjusting the numbers is the correct way to do it, but there's no way to do it. But let me tell you one thing: It makes Wilt look even worse. 24 FGA at a 105 pace isn't like 24 FGA at a 95 pace when defenses are set, teams aren't recklessly running and and as a result the guy taking 24 shots is getting way worse looks on average

I'm not buying Wilt looks worse in slower pace. Worse at what? PPG? FG%'s? Rebounding, I can understand (not rebounding rates, though).
Wilt wasn't a guard and he wasn't a light center either. Despite his speed giftedness, he wasn't rushing on offense at every opportunity and, since he was playing at the paint, he'd need to cover more space than any other teammate to take his position in offense. Like many traditional centers, he was at times the last player to take position, especially after bulking up, so the whole point about players having more transition and semi transition looks can't be applied the same way to Wilt and other bigs - and this is some of the beef I have against PER and other stats that account for pace. You can have plays when the pace is outrageous, guards that will jack the shot at any given opportunity, while the big man may not even have appeared on screen and then you want to adjust big men's stats to pace? You can't have that.
Neither do I agree with the whole "more transition looks" in fast pace thing, or, at least, I don't agree that "more"="better" and if you say you never implied this, then I'll ask again, then why does Wilt look worse? Pace depends on defense, not vice-versa and offenses improve all the time by virtue of the level of defenses played. Nowadays, possessions are fewer, but this doesn't necessarily mean that players also have less good looks, due to the level of offenses. And, like I said, it's not something that Wilt wasn't used to anyway. People were collapsing on him at college and he also took tons of shots with no good looks as a pro (like any other high shooting teammate and opponent) in his first seasons, which resulted in him shooting "only" a bit above 50% at FG's (and he was still leading or almost leading the league). The way today's game is structured, I'm not seeing a monster like Wilt shooting at any less than 55%.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Wilt will never shed the stigma of being a loser.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://youtu.be/ORwloq6CnLU

[SilkkTheShocker]

Trails his biggest competition in rings 11-2.

Pathetic.

[Marchesk]

Wilt will never shed the stigma of being a loser.

Good thing Ray Allen hit that shot.

[Legends66NBA7]

http://youtu.be/ORwloq6CnLU

When did Rick Barry say that ?

[RRR3]

Good thing Ray Allen hit that shot.
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/4551128/kevin-garnett-reaction-o.gif

[Marchesk]

Factoring in how the gameplay changes AND mathematically adjusting the numbers is the correct way to do it, but there's no way to do it. But let me tell you one thing: It makes Wilt look even worse. 24 FGA at a 105 pace isn't like 24 FGA at a 95 pace when defenses are set, teams aren't recklessly running and and as a result the guy taking 24 shots is getting way worse looks on average

Also factor in the dearth of great centers and power forwards. The game is different today. But Roy freaking Hibbert showed what sort of damage a guy of that size can do this past playoffs.

I think Wilt does 25-30 ppg, 16-19 boards, 3 assists, and 4 blocks in today's league. The points depends on the team he plays for. He was one of the great rebounders, and if Kevin Love can do 16... Wilt was also one of the great shot blockers, and it's easy to see why on what video does exist.

I do think he would need to do some work on his footwork and not bringing the ball down. Dwight Howard scored almost 23 a game one season with his lack of skills. Wilt was more skilled than Howard.

[Marchesk]

Trails his biggest competition in rings 11-2.

Pathetic.

Must be nice to be only down 5-2 these days. Good decision, good job.

[Psileas]

http://youtu.be/ORwloq6CnLU

And he didn't even hesitate for a single second. :applause:

[Legends66NBA7]

And he didn't even hesitate for a single second. :applause:


When did Rick Barry say that ?

...

[CavaliersFTW]

When did Rick Barry say that ?
last week

[Psileas]

...

Are you implying that he made that up and that isn't Barry? Or that it's too old and his opinion may have changed?

It's not as if Barry hasn't praised Wilt in such a way before, either.

[Legends66NBA7]

Are you implying that he made that up and that isn't Barry? Or that it's too old and his opinion may have changed?

It's not as if Barry hasn't praised Wilt in such a way before, either.

No, I'm just asking when he said it. :oldlol:

Is it recent or something ?

[SilkkTheShocker]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/4551128/kevin-garnett-reaction-o.gif

Don't make me pull up you picture.

[daily]

Wilt's an all time great. Top 3 center ever along with Kareem and Shaq. You all can twist and distort stats until the cows come home but it's not going to change what everyone outside of ISH thinks about Wilt.

on and off note what the hell is Millwad's obsession with JLauber? :lol That's down right creepy

[millwad]

Wilt's an all time great. Top 3 center ever along with Kareem and Shaq. You all can twist and distort stats until the cows come home but it's not going to change what everyone outside of ISH thinks about Wilt.

on and off note what the hell is Millwad's obsession with JLauber? :lol That's down right creepy

My obsession?
He's the dude who's hi-jacking my threads.

[millwad]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/4551128/kevin-garnett-reaction-o.gif

http://imageshack.us/a/img694/6500/capturekig.jpg

[Stringer Bell]

We always hear all about how amazing Wilt was a a scorer and how he always destroyed everyone all the time.. in the regular season that is.

"Amazing" Wilt's scoring average in the playoffs is; 22 ppg on 52% shooting

"Amazing" Wilt's finals scoring average over 6 final series is pathetic; 18.5 points per game on 55% shooting while only making 38% of his FT-attempts.

Poor Wilt. So dominant, yet he made Shaq look like Mark Price at the FT line.

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/wilt-chamberlain_display_image.jpg

Walking down the Yellow Brick Road singing "if I only could make a free throw".

Then he'd probably have about 4-5 more rings.

As it is, he had 2, which a sex-offending dirtbag like Karl Malone could only dream of.

http://www.bballchannel.fr/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Malone-Horry.jpg

[Marchesk]

He did average 24 boards and nearly 4 assists. The FT% is truly terrible. But as for his PPG, four of those finals came between ages 32 and 36. If they had come earlier in his career, he would have a different average. The year he averaged 50/25, his team lost to Boston in 7 by two points in the EDF. I'm going to guess that against the Lakers, Wilt would have had a peak-like finals, seeing as there wouldn't have been a Russell or Thurmond-like center defending him.

[LAZERUSS]

Poor Wilt. So dominant, yet he made Shaq look like Mark Price at the FT line.

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/wilt-chamberlain_display_image.jpg

Walking down the Yellow Brick Road singing "if I only could make a free throw".

Then he'd probably have about 4-5 more rings.

As it is, he had 2, which a sex-offending dirtbag like Karl Malone could only dream of.

http://www.bballchannel.fr/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Malone-Horry.jpg

Wilt's FT shooting was poor, but Shaq's certainly wasn't much better. In his six Finals, Shaq had series of .571, .387, .513, .662, .491, and .292. BTW, in Shaq's '04 Finals, while he was shooting .491, Ben Wallace, on the WINNING team, shot .294.

Of course, Chamberlain's opposing centers in those six Finals also shot relatively poorly, going a combined .606. Furthermore, Chamberlain outscored his opposing centers from the FT line in EVERY one of his six Finals.

Oh, and BTW, Chamberlain shot .559 from the field in his six Finals, and he held his opposing centers (ALL in the HOF BTW) to a combined .439. And he did so while easily outscoring, and badly outrebounding them overall.

[LAZERUSS]

He did average 24 boards and nearly 4 assists. The FT% is truly terrible. But as for his PPG, four of those finals came between ages 32 and 36. If they had come earlier in his career, he would have a different average. The year he averaged 50/25, his team lost to Boston in 7 by two points in the EDF. I'm going to guess that against the Lakers, Wilt would have had a peak-like finals, seeing as there wouldn't have been a Russell or Thurmond-like center defending him.

Excellent point. Russell destroyed those Laker teams in his FIVE Finals against them in the 60's, while Wilt never had the opportunity to face them even ONCE.

From another topic...


Here were Russell's numbers against LA in those five series:

'62:

Russell averaged 18.9 ppg on a .457 FG% in his regular season against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 22.9 ppg on a .543 FG%. Which included a game seven of 30 points and 40 rebounds.

BTW, against Wilt in the '62 EDF's: 22.0 ppg on a .399 FG%


'63:

Russell averaged 16.8 ppg on a .432 FG% in his regular season.

Against LA in the Finals: 20 ppg on a .467 FG%


'65:

Russell averaged 14.1 ppg on a .438 FG% against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 17.8 ppg on a .702 FG% (yes, .702.)

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 15.6 ppg on a .447 FG%


'66:

Russell averaged 12.9 ppg on a .415 FG% against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 23.6 ppg on a .538 FG%

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 14.0 ppg on a .423 FG%


'68:

Russell averaged 12.5 ppg on a .425 FG% against the NBA

Against LA in the Finals: 17.3 ppg on a .430 FG%

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 13.7 ppg on a .440 FG%


Oh, and here were Russell's stats in the '69 Finals against Wilt:

Regular season against the NBA: 9.9 ppg on a .433 FG%

Against Wilt in the Finals: 9.0 ppg on a .397 FG%


Again, had Wilt faced the Lakers in any of his nine seasons in the league from '60 thru '68, and he likely would own at least some, (if not a vast majority), playoff and perhaps Finals, scoring records (and perhaps FG% records, as well, since Russell shot .702 against LA in '65.)

And once again, in Wilt's regular seasons, he was facing LA between 7 to 12 games in each season, with an average of about 10.

Also keep in mind that the Lakers were in the Western Conference, and Wilt only had two seasons in the Western Conference from '60 thru '68, and in one of those, his team was so bad, that he didn't make the playoffs, despite a 44.8 ppg season on .528 shooting.


Ok, here we go:

'59-60:

Against the entire NBA that season: 37.6 ppg on a .461 FG%

Against the Lakers in 9 H2H's: 36.8 ppg on a .430 FG%

High games of 41, 41, 41, 45, and 52.


'60-61:

Against the entire NBA: 38.4 ppg on a .509 FG%

Against the Lakers in 10 H2H's: 40.1 ppg on a .506 FG%

High games were 41, 41, 43, 44, 46, and 56 points.


'61-62:

Against the entire NBA: 50.4 ppg on a .506 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2H games: 51.6 ppg on a .503 FG%

High games of 48, 56, 57, 60, 60, and 78 (with 43 rebounds.)


'62-63: Against the entire NBA: 44.8 ppg on a .528 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 48.6 ppg on a .541 FG%

High games of 40, 40, 42, 53, 63, and 72 points.


'63-64: Against the entire NBA: 36.9 ppg on a .524 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 44.3 ppg on a .484 FG%

High games of 40, 41, 47, 49, 50, 55, and 59 points.


'64-65: Against the entire NBA: 34.7 ppg on a .510 FG%

Against LA in 8 H2Hs: 29.9 ppg on a .476 FG%

High games of 40, 40, and 41 points.


'65-66: Against the entire NBA: 33.5 ppg on a .540 FG%

Against LA in 10 H2Hs: 40.8 ppg on a .559 FG%

High games of 42, 49, 53, and 65 points.


'66-67: Against the entire NBA: 24.1 ppg on a .683 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2Hs: 26.4 ppg on a .759 FG%

High games of 32, 37, and 39 points.


'67-68: Against the entire NBA: 24.3 ppg on a .595 FG%

Against LA in 7 H2Hs: 28.1 ppg on a .638 FG%

High games of 31, 32, 35, and 53 points.


Overall, in those 86 games:

40 Point Games: 42

50 Point Games: 19

60 Point Games: 7

70 Point Games: 2

High game of 78 points.