My top 20 all-time

[Deuce Bigalow]

As a basketball historian, I have seen plenty of the NBA in my time. I have seen basketball legends from George Mikan to Lebron James. Here is a list of the greatest basketball players of alltime.

1. George Mikan
The length of Goliath, speed of a gazelle, and the strength of a lion, we have never seen one like him.

2. Michael Jordan
The greatest scorer in NBA history without a doubt.

3. Bill Russell
The greatest winner in all of sports history.

4. Magic Johnson
Greatest Point Guard of alltime.

5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
NBA's alltime leading scorer in the regular season and a record 6 time league MVP.

6. Larry Bird
One of the smartest and most skilled players we will ever see.

7. Shaquille O'Neal
The last of the great dominant big men.

8. Kobe Bryant
Some call him God.

9. Tim Duncan
The Big Fundamental.

10. Hakeem Olajuwon
You can say he almost pulled a Mikan in 1994.

11. Lebron James
Modern day Oscar Robertson on HGH.

12. Wilt Chamberlain
One of the greater individual talents we have witnessed.

13. Jerry West
NBA's basketball logo.

14. Oscar Robertson
Only player to average a triple double for a season.

15. Moses Malone
Led the 1983 Sixers to a 12-1 playoff record.

16. Elgin Baylor
The first great small forward in league history.

17. Julius Erving
Known as the greatest ABA player of alltime.

18. Bob Pettit
Was able to win a ring during the Celtic dynasty.

19. Charles Barkley
The Round Mound of Rebound.

20. Kevin Garnett
Member of the most All-Defensive First teams in league history.

Honorable Mentions: Karl Malone, Dirk Nowitzki.

[Shade8780]

All of the people who post a thread about their top 20 players all-time are obviously trying to put out that they hate a certain player. In this case, it's Wilt. We get it OP, now **** off please?

[BoutPractice]

Well other than the placement Wilt outside the top 10, it's actually a pretty good list.

[b1imtf]

Not bad, not bad at all :applause:

[Horatio33]

1. Michael Jordan

2. Bill Russell

3. Magic Johnson

4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

5. Larry Bird

6. Shaquille O'Neal

7. Kobe Bryant

8. Tim Duncan

9. Hakeem Olajuwon

10. Lebron James

11. Wilt Chamberlain

12. Jerry West

13. Oscar Robertson

14. Moses Malone

15. Elgin Baylor

16. Julius Erving

17. Bob Pettit

18. Charles Barkley

19. Kevin Garnett

20. Karl Malone

HM: Dirk Nowitzki, George Mikan

http://i.imgur.com/lAZ1L.gif

I'd move Shaq below Kobe and Duncan and Dirk instead of Karl Malone. Good list apart from that.

[TOLATE]

rick berry?

[Deuce Bigalow]

All of the people who post a thread about their top 20 players all-time are obviously trying to put out that they hate a certain player. In this case, it's Wilt. We get it OP, now **** off please?
Not hating.

Wilt is 2-4 in the NBA Finals, which is by far the worst record compared to the 10 I have ahead.
Wilt is 14-5 in playoff series with HCA, one of those losses being to a 38-41 team, lower win percentage than the 10 above.

MJ, Bill, Magic, KAJ, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem, and Lebron all have more rings or at least the same amount as Wilt. They too all have the necessary accolades such as Finals MVPs, League MVPs, All-Star team, All-NBA teams to go along with their championships.

[Marchesk]

Not hating.

Wilt is 2-4 in the NBA Finals, which is by far the worst record compared to the 10 I have ahead.
Wilt is 14-5 in playoff series with HCA, one of those losses being to a 38-41 team, lower win percentage than the 10 above.

MJ, Bill, Magic, KAJ, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem, and Lebron all have more rings or at least the same amount as Wilt. They too all have the necessary accolades such as Finals MVPs, League MVPs, All-Star team, All-NBA teams to go along with their championships.

But they didn't rewrite the record book and set marks that may never be broken. They also didn't lead the league in multiple categories during their careers. Name one player who has been a scoring leader, rebounding leader, assists leader and FG% leader.

Wilt's scoring went down in the playoffs, but his rebounding went up, his assists stayed the same, and likely so did his shot blocking (which he would also have led the league in in multiple seasons most likely).

Basically, Wilt did things nobody has ever done in the game. That's five categories (if shot blocking was recorded back then) that Wilt would have led the league in at various times in his career (not all at the same time of course). Nobody else can say that.

I do think his playoff career is a bit dissapointing, but consider that Oscar, West and Baylor's are as well. West was 1-8 in the finals, while averaging 31.9 ppg and being called "Mr. Clutch". What's the common denominator here? The Celtics. They denied everyone. Wilt detractors act like he's the only great player failing to beat them. No, the Lakers with Baylor and West, two of the top 5 players in that era, couldn't do it. Petit's St. Louis team did it once in the late 50s when Russell got hurt. They lost the other two times.

Hell, if you can't beat a team when your top two players average nearly 72 ppg and 23 rpg in a finals, then you know the other team is stacked as hell.

[LAZERUSS]

But they didn't rewrite the record book and set marks that may never be broken. They also didn't lead the league in multiple categories during their careers. Name one player who has been a scoring leader, rebounding leader, assists leader and FG% leader.

Wilt's scoring went down in the playoffs, but his rebounding went up, his assists stayed the same, and likely so did his shot blocking (which he would also have led the league in in multiple seasons most likely).

Basically, Wilt did things nobody has ever done in the game. That's five categories (if shot blocking was recorded back then) that Wilt would have led the league in at various times in his career (not all at the same time of course). Nobody else can say that.

I do think his playoff career is a bit dissapointing, but consider that Oscar, West and Baylor's are as well. West was 1-8 in the finals, while averaging 31.9 ppg and being called "Mr. Clutch". What's the common denominator here? The Celtics. They denied everyone. Wilt detractors act like he's the only great player failing to beat them. No, the Lakers with Baylor and West, two of the top 5 players in that era, couldn't do it. Petit's St. Louis team did it once in the late 50s when Russell got hurt. They lost the other two times.

Not only that, but Wilt, with badly outmatched teammates, who were even worse in the post-season, came within an eyelash, FOUR times, of beating the greatest dynasty in NBA history, losing those games by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points.

His 64-65 EDF's was perhaps the greatest post-season series in NBA history. He took a 40-40 team, that had gone 34-46 just the year before, and missed the post-season, thru a first round romp over the loaded 48-32 Royals, and then to a game seven, one point loss, against a HOF-laden Celtic team that had gone 62-18, and were at the peak of their dynasty. All while scoring 30.1 ppg, grabbing 31.4 rpg, and shooting an eye-popping .555 from the field (and with a true TS% of .560... in a post-season that had a true TS% of .478.)

[Scholar]

Not hating.

Wilt is 2-4 in the NBA Finals, which is by far the worst record compared to the 10 I have ahead.
Wilt is 14-5 in playoff series with HCA, one of those losses being to a 38-41 team, lower win percentage than the 10 above.

MJ, Bill, Magic, KAJ, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem, and Lebron all have more rings or at least the same amount as Wilt. They too all have the necessary accolades such as Finals MVPs, League MVPs, All-Star team, All-NBA teams to go along with their championships.

That's just a ridiculously silly statement.
Finals wins per appearance by all-time greats:
LeBron = 2/4
Kobe = 5/7
Shaq = 4/6
West = 1/9
Magic = 5/9
Bird = 3/5

In what way is Wilt's record terrible? He's exactly .500 in the Finals, which isn't too bad percentage-wise with any of these other elite all-time players.

[jongib369]

1. Michael Jordan

2. Bill Russell

3. Magic Johnson

4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

5. Larry Bird

6. Shaquille O'Neal

7. Kobe Bryant

8. Tim Duncan

9. Hakeem Olajuwon

10. Lebron James

11. Wilt Chamberlain

12. Jerry West

13. Oscar Robertson

14. Moses Malone

15. Elgin Baylor

16. Julius Erving

17. Bob Pettit

18. Charles Barkley

19. Kevin Garnett

20. Karl Malone

HM: Dirk Nowitzki, George Mikan

http://i.imgur.com/lAZ1L.gif
I'm surprised you even have Pettit listed

[Haks]

Great list

[Electric Slide]

Switch Kobe with Wilt and that's fine.

[Vienceslav]

Ignoring the Wilt thing that's actually not a bad list.:cheers:

[Deuce Bigalow]

That's just a ridiculously silly statement.
Finals wins per appearance by all-time greats:
LeBron = 2/4
Kobe = 5/7
Shaq = 4/6
West = 1/9
Magic = 5/9
Bird = 3/5

In what way is Wilt's record terrible? He's exactly .500 in the Finals, which isn't too bad percentage-wise with any of these other elite all-time players.
2-4 is .333 win percentage. 2-4 as in 2 wins, 4 losses, 2 for 6.

MJ = 6/6
Bill = 11/12
Magic = 5/9
Kareem = 6/10
Bird = 3/5
Shaq = 4/6
Kobe = 5/7
Duncan = 4/5
Hakeem = 2/3
Lebron = 2/4

All better than .500 except for Lebron who is at .500

Wilt = 2/6

[LAZERUSS]

2-4 is .333 win percentage. 2-4 as in 2 wins, 4 losses, 2 for 6.

MJ = 6/6
Bill = 11/12
Magic = 5/9
Kareem = 6/10
Bird = 3/5
Shaq = 4/6
Kobe = 5/7
Duncan = 4/5
Hakeem = 2/3
Lebron = 2/4

All better than .500 except for Lebron who is at .500

Wilt = 2/6

So, repeatedly getting wiped out in first rounds, and only making HALF as many Finals, is more important than getting there?

[Scholar]

2-4 is .333 win percentage. 2-4 as in 2 wins, 4 losses, 2 for 6.

MJ = 6/6
Bill = 11/12
Magic = 5/9
Kareem = 6/10
Bird = 3/5
Shaq = 4/6
Kobe = 5/7
Duncan = 4/5
Hakeem = 2/3
Lebron = 2/4

All better than .500 except for Lebron who is at .500

Wilt = 2/6

Ok, you got me there. I never claimed to have incredible NBA history knowledge. I probably should've made sure to look up how many Finals he went to.

I still think Wilt is a top 10 player, but hey, to each his own.

[TrueRob]

I wonder if the OP posted this list just to diss Wilt. :confusedshrug: I guess everyone's entitled to their opinion.

[Psileas]

Ignoring the Wilt thing that's actually not a bad list.:cheers:

The point, though, is Wilt. It's an obvious Wilt thread masquarading (unsuccessfully) as a "top-20" thread. It's even more obvious when you consider that it's a spinoff of the other "top-20" thread, created some hours before, that had Wilt at #1.

[Deuce Bigalow]

So, repeatedly getting wiped out in first rounds, and only making HALF as many Finals, is more important than getting there?
Making it to the Finals when there are only 8 teams in the league is not the same as making it to the Finals when there are 20+. Plus they only had three rounds back then. Wilt lost in the first round as well, once to a losing team as I mentioned before. How many times as ANY "superstar" lost to a losing team?, let alone a legend. I'm going to agree with you on this one though, making it to the Finals is better than losing earlier.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'm surprised you even have Pettit listed
Beat the Celtics in the '58 NBA Finals and had 50 points in the clincher, including 19 of his team's last 21 points. Plus he has 10 All-NBA First teams, 2 League MVPs, and 2 Scoring titles. Easily top 20.

[jongib369]

How do you think he'd do today? And what team would best suit him

[Marchesk]

Beat the Celtics in the '58 NBA Finals and had 50 points in the clincher, including 19 of his team's last 21 points. Plus he has 10 All-NBA First teams, 2 League MVPs, and 2 Scoring titles. Easily top 20.

Yeah, I wondered why people leave Petit off the top 20. But what about Hondo?

6-6 Finals with Russell. 2-2 without Russell. 8-8 overall. Led the Celtics in scoring in those finals 3 times, including one where West got the Finals MVP, and another where he got the FMVP. Havlicek was 13 time All star, 4 time first team. He was all-defensive 8 times, with five being first team.

He was ranked #17 by Slam magazine back in 2009, and Bill Simmons has him as the 14th best. He's the Celtics all time leading scorer, 11th all-time in the NBA.

[tpols]

2-4 is .333 win percentage. 2-4 as in 2 wins, 4 losses, 2 for 6.

MJ = 6/6
Bill = 11/12
Magic = 5/9
Kareem = 6/10
Bird = 3/5
Shaq = 4/6
Kobe = 5/7
Duncan = 4/5
Hakeem = 2/3
Lebron = 2/4

All better than .500 except for Lebron who is at .500

Wilt = 2/6
You have jerry west over him though and he's 1-9:oldlol:

[jongib369]

2-4 is .333 win percentage. 2-4 as in 2 wins, 4 losses, 2 for 6.

MJ = 6/6
Bill = 11/12
Magic = 5/9
Kareem = 6/10
Bird = 3/5
Shaq = 4/6
Kobe = 5/7
Duncan = 4/5
Hakeem = 2/3
Lebron = 2/4

All better than .500 except for Lebron who is at .500

Wilt = 2/6
Is it fair to say Russell was 11/12 ? Considering he was injured and didn't play

[Deuce Bigalow]

You have jerry west over him though and he's 1-9:oldlol:
No I don't. Although West's "1 for 9" is very different than Wilt's situation. West played great in the NBA Finals especially in his losses, while Wilt averaged 37% from the freethrow line in his Finals career costing his team close games. Like Wilt's teammate Happy Hairston said, Wilt was not a selfish player, he was actually one of the most unselfish basketball players of alltime, nobody gave away more championship games than Wilt.

11. Wilt Chamberlain

12. Jerry West

[Deuce Bigalow]

Is it fair to say Russell was 11/12 ? Considering he was injured and didn't play
Not really. Also Magic's '89 Finals he was injured.

[Deuce Bigalow]

rick berry?
You mean Rick Barry.

[pauk]

So, repeatedly getting wiped out in first rounds, and only making HALF as many Finals, is more important than getting there?

Yes, its more impressive to get wiped out in the 1st round even with the most stacked team ever than to get to the Finals and lose there even with the worst supporting cast ever.

If you feel like you might get to the Finals in the ECF/WCF you better lose that series quick, dont want to risk get to the Finals and get 0/1.... your attempt of trying to win a championship no matter the odds is not commended, so dont go to the Finals unless you are absolutely sure you can win.... better to just quit...

Go by the motto "Quit or get wiped out > Trying to win a championship no matter the odds"..... then you will be GOAT...

[RoundMoundOfReb]

George Mikan too low on this list. He deserves a list of his own.

[coin24]

Yes, its more impressive to get wiped out in the 1st round even with the most stacked team ever than to get to the Finals and lose there even with the worst supporting cast ever.

If you feel like you might get to the Finals in the ECF/WCF you better lose that series quick, dont want to risk get to the Finals and get 0/1.... your attempt of trying to win a championship no matter the odds is not commended, so dont go to the Finals unless you are absolutely sure you can win.... better to just quit...

Go by the motto "Quit or get wiped out > Trying to win a championship no matter the odds"..... then you will be GOAT...


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


Youre just trying to gloss over the complete shit teams the Cavs were beating in the first and second rounds all those years... Not even .500 teams.

[pauk]

@Coin24

No, i am trying to gloss over this logic of delusion where you downgrade players who got to the Finals but losed... Jerry West or Elgin Baylor for example losed a whole lot in Finals but they are arguably the best Finals performers in NBA history... Lebron got there and losed his first time with what was the worst team to ever be in a Finals and you are gona discredit him & players like that for simply refusing to lose in the 1st round?

Thats like discrediting a guy who used a bicycle to get #2 in a Formula 1 race... yes the guy didnt win that time.... but come on...........
Meanwhile praising the Formula 1 car who came #30 in that race simply because he didnt get to the top 3 ending up with 0 of 1....

Thats exactly what you are doing...

[coin24]

@Coin24

No, i am trying to gloss over this logic of delusion where you downgrade players who got to the Finals but losed... Jerry West or Elgin Baylor for example losed a whole lot in Finals but they are arguably the best Finals performers in NBA history... Lebron got there and losed his first time with what was the worst team to ever be in a Finals and you are gona discredit him & players like that for simply refusing to lose in the 1st round?

Thats like discrediting a guy who used a bicycle to get #2 in a Formula 1 race... yes the guy didnt win that time.... but come on...........
Meanwhile praising the Formula 1 car who came #30 in that race simply because he didnt get to the top 3 ending up with 0 of 1....

Thats exactly what you are doing...


Well it's actually fair in LeBrons case because he single handedly lost the finals for the Heat in 2011..
You're a stat man pauk, please explain Lebrons dramatic stat drop from the Eastern conference playoffs to the nba finals with his so called worst finals team ever...

[pauk]

Well it's actually fair in LeBrons case because he single handedly lost the finals for the Heat in 2011..
You're a stat man pauk, please explain Lebrons dramatic stat drop from the Eastern conference playoffs to the nba finals with his so called worst finals team ever...

You are completely caught up on only Lebron and only the 2011 Finals, not like the context of the rest of his Finals was like that? I am talking about every other Finals & everybody else.... i am talking about CONTEXT...

When you talk about Finals losses/wins (comparing Rings in general) you have to look into the context... what did the player do, what was his role, what did he have to work with around him, why, how, when etc....

You have to look into the context.... if you dont then you will just see the paper where it says "Player B 0/1 in Finals vs Player A 1/1 in Finals".... and hence Player A > Player B.....

But if you do look into the context you will see that Player B took the worst team in NBA history to the Finals, played amazing and losed..... while Player A took the best team in NBA history to the Finals, played very bad and won.... then you realise its actually "Player B > Player A".......

[pauk]

I am not talking about LEBRON for gods sakes, how many times do i have to tell you!? The example of Player B/A is just a hypothetical analogy, understand? Its like i am talking to a 11 year old.

[coin24]

I am not talking about LEBRON for gods sakes, how many times do i have to tell you!?

yes you are:lol

now log in as Nash and agree with yourself

[pauk]

Sheesh, knew i was wasting my time with a Kobetard troll... but still did it anyways...