2013 US Open Thread

[DuMa]

Its here again and recently Rafa has been pummeling his opponents. Harrison was his latest victim.

Fed playing later tonight and is in Rafa's quarter.

other notes:
Blake is retiring after this USO.
Mandy Minella is absolutely beautiful.
WTA still sucks.

[bdreason]

My girl Sloan survived a 3 set tiebreaker. :cheers:

Sharapova out of the tourney with a shoulder injury.



Favorite on the Men's side is Nadal, who hasn't lost a match on the hardcourts this year. The only person I see beating him is Djoker.

Serena is the obvious favorite on the womens side. She has a possible rematch with Sloan Stevens, who beat her last time they played, in the QF.

[gigantes]

let the hatefest bashing over the smallest of reasons begin.


nadal, fed, djoker, murray... if you don't hate one or more of them with a passion, you are obviously not a true sports fan! :rockon:

[gigantes]

one of the biggest tennis matches of all time, the battle of the sexes between bobby riggs and billie jean king, was fixed (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/tennis-busted-racquet/did-bobby-riggs-throw-match-billie-jean-king-194857300.html)... according to a sports insider who went public after 40 years of silence.

fixed by riggs and the mafia for $100K in 1973 money.

[Qwyjibo]

let the hatefest bashing over the smallest of reasons begin.


nadal, fed, djoker, murray... if you don't hate one or more of them with a passion, you are obviously not a true sports fan! :rockon:
Djokovic is a turd. I'm cool with any of the other 3 winning. Or even Del Potro again if he can hold it together.

[imdaman99]

C'mon Rafa, get it done this year :rockon:

[enayes]

I forgot that Nadal missed the US Open last year, hopefully he feels comfortable enough to play his best. But with his recent results I don't think anyone can say Rafa is lacking in confidence.

[pinhead]

Why can't you yanks get a roof? No wonder Wimbledon remains the best.

[DuMa]

Why can't you yanks get a roof? No wonder Wimbledon remains the best.

Hey! we saved your asses in WW2

[pinhead]

Hey! we saved your asses in WW2

I wasn't even born. I'd prefer the roof.

[bdreason]

Why can't you yanks get a roof? No wonder Wimbledon remains the best.


While I agree Wimbledon is the best, I believe they only added the roof to center a few years ago. I also believe that Arthur Ash, the largest Tennis venue in the World, would be much more expensive to put a roof over. I think the Wimbledon roof cost like $250mil. :eek:

[veilside23]

lets go djokovic...

darn janowicz lost in the 1st round .. Bummer!

and i have no one to root for in WTA ..

sharapova aint playing :(

[bdreason]

17 year old American Victoria Duval upsets #11 Sam Stosur.

[DuMa]

Thunderstorm scheduled for all afternoon. All play is halted. Murray is scheduled to play on Ashe tonight but if the rains wipe out play for today, he wont even get to start his first round match until Thursday. tough stuff for the defending champion

[Sarcastic]

They are building a roof soon.

[DuMa]

Eugenie Bouchard is extremely cute

[bdreason]

Isner trying to finish off Monfils in a great 2nd round matchup.

[DuMa]

Monfils could be so much better than what he is usually is. He can put on the best show in Tennis but he has no serious attitude about winning. He justs cares about getting the most applause or cheers from a crowd. I am amazed on how he won over the US crowd playing against the US #1 player. But he will never live up to his talent because he just loves to clown around.

Gael Clownfils always a clown

[bdreason]

Truth is Monfils plays great defense because of his athleticism, but is very average in every other aspect of the game. You're right though that he lacks the mental toughness of the top players. He also tends to be injury prone, because he exerts so much energy on defense.


If Monfils was going to become a legitimate top 10 player, he would need to develop a killer groundstroke (forehand or backhand), and vastly improve his serve. Towards the end up of the match he wasn't even breaking 100mph on his serve. That won't get it done against any of the top players.

[bdreason]

My girl Sloan through to the 4th round to probably face Serena Williams, whom she beat last time they played.

[DuMa]

dammit the dream QF is dead. Fed shit the bed today :mad:

[imdaman99]

dammit the dream QF is dead. Fed shit the bed today :mad:
nadals about to do the same :mad:

[DuMa]

Nadal wins. Systematically broke down Kohli, which wasnt very easy. Hes a solid player.

Oh Fed. Now i have to wonder if you really tanked the match to avoid playing Rafa the beast.

[bdreason]

I honestly think Fed lost on purpose because he didn't want to lose again to Rafa in the QF. It's hard for me to say that, but I've never seen Fed fail to convert on so many break chances, especially against a guy he's handled so easily in the past. It's like he wanted to show that he could win the match if he really wanted to.

Truth is, he would have lost to Rafa in QF barring some kind of injury. Fed has officially begun the decline, and although he claims he wants to play for 2-3 more years, I'm not sure his ego can withstand losses to guys he would have cruised through in the past... and maybe even drops out of the top#10. Fed is one of my fav athletes off all-time, in any sport, and it's hard for me to watch his decline. I can only imagine how hard it must be mentally to fall from the top of the mountain.


That said, I think he could still win a major or two if he does play 2-3 more years. He will need some stars to align though, which will mean somehow dodging Rafa and Djoker, or perhaps an injury to one of those players. I'm not convinced Rafa's body will hold-up through the long hardcourt season.

[DuMa]

Switzerland has a new #1 player. His name is Stan Wawrinka. Stan is the man!

[veilside23]

i think stan can beat murray... ;)

i dont know if gasquet can beat nadal but who knows...

we maybe looking at nadal djoker again.. i want djoker to win to put and end to the streak of nadal..

[imdaman99]

lets go nadal! nadal got revenge on robredo for disrupting the FEDAL matchup. although he would have beat Fed pretty easily too. BUT not as badly as he did him. Nadals in top form, and should beat Gasquet, and then hopefully he'll face a worn out Djokavic or Murray. GET IT DONE NADAL!

viva espana :lol im not even spanish :oldlol:

[bdreason]

This Murray vs. Wawrinka match is going to be a good one.

[yobore]

Monfils could be so much better than what he is usually is. He can put on the best show in Tennis but he has no serious attitude about winning. He justs cares about getting the most applause or cheers from a crowd. I am amazed on how he won over the US crowd playing against the US #1 player. But he will never live up to his talent because he just loves to clown around.

Gael Clownfils always a clown
The same problem to a lesser degree with Tsonga and Gasquet and French athletes in almost every sport. The French public values pinache more than winning. Gasquet and Monfils don't seek metronomic perfection they like to be loose and look good. There is practically no "science" to sport in France like other countries. This is a generalization but their cyclists just practice going up and down hills no methodology to it, and in races have no discipline just attack attack and create dramatic footage for TV. Monfils drinks freaking coca-cola on changeovers, which is pretty commonly accepted for sports in France

[imdaman99]

Wawrinka finally wins the set on Set point #6.
Andy Murray is a mess when he is messing up, looks hilarious screaming at himself :lol

[DuMa]

STAN THE MAN!

Ive got nothing against Murray. IN fact i was hoping he would get into the finals and face Nadal because those two havent faced each other in a while. I thought it would be a classic match. But i just love it when other players in the top 10 can bring their game. It makes tennis a lot better in general. the top 4 (Nole/Rafa/Anday/Fed) are so ridiculously better than the rest of the tour, its almost like a monopoly. But with Gasquet and Wawrinka in the Semis, two underrated players on the tour who struggled for years against the top 4, its just great for the sport.

[DuMa]

Now i hope Stan can pay back Novak for that heartbreaking loss in Australia. That was a great match

[TheReturn]

Wawrinka is such a legend. I'm not really a hardcore tennis fan, but i saw one of his matches like half a year ago and ever since I'm a fan of his.

[veilside23]

i like his game better than murray to be honest. that is why i pick him and i knew he can win vs murray... but i still think djokovic gets this..

i also think wawrinka might have a trouble vs nadal so its 1 vs 2 ....

[bdreason]

This Djoker vs. Youzhny match could be interesting. He's beaten Djoker 3 times in 8 matches.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Wawrinka didnt just win he made Murray look like a nobody.


Waw waw wrinka!

[imdaman99]

This Djoker vs. Youzhny match could be interesting. He's beaten Djoker 3 times in 8 matches.
naw, i think djoker and nadal are on a collision course. i give wawranka a better chance against djoker than i do with gasquet against nadal. djoker and nadal is a toss-up but i am hoping nadal wins it. they're both looking great though.

[gigantes]

awesome... my boy djokes is through to the semis.


not really sure anyone can touch nadal at this point, but we'll see...

[plowking]

Djokovic has been insane this tournament outside of that one dropped set against Youzhny... Playing some great tennis. It'd be fitting for him and Nadal to play in the final seeing as they have been the two best players by far. Saying that though, Stan is in some fine form.

[DuMa]

I dont doubt that Nole is a top 2 player right now in this tournament but hes been playing some crappy ass players. The other night he played Granollers, absolute joke that hes in the top 100. Youzhny's the only decent player he has played so far and he was probably burnt out from playing in the dead heat in 5 sets vs Hewitt. That match was great, but took a lot out of both players.

We will see if Djokovic is battle tested enough vs Stan and eventually Rafa.

[plowking]

I dont doubt that Nole is a top 2 player right now in this tournament but hes been playing some crappy ass players. The other night he played Granollers, absolute joke that hes in the top 100. Youzhny's the only decent player he has played so far and he was probably burnt out from playing in the dead heat in 5 sets vs Hewitt. That match was great, but took a lot out of both players.

We will see if Djokovic is battle tested enough vs Stan and eventually Rafa.

Stan is a great match up for him. Presents the same problems for him as Federer, who he actually doesn't have an easy time against, despite what recent records show in majors.

[gigantes]

so we have some stan stans in this thread?


http://e0.365dm.com/13/01/660x350/djokovic_2888724.jpg

[bdreason]

Wawrinka is playing out of his mind, handling Djoker right now. I don't think I've ever seen anyone hit as many winners against Djoker as Wawrinka is right now. :eek:

[DuMa]

STAN Da Man keep stanning!

[DuMa]

1 set closer. stan :pimp:

[b1imtf]

Bad mistake

[b1imtf]

He mad :roll:

[imdaman99]

21 min long game for stan to hold, on serve 2-1 in the 5th set :eek:

[bdreason]

bah, worse case scenario. Djoker gets pushed 5 sets, and Nadal is probably going to run through Gasquet.

[alenleomessi]

djoker-nadal final as expected
hopefully another epic match

[gigantes]

djoker-nadal final as expected
hopefully another epic match
nadal still has to play gasquet.

[gigantes]

whew...! the technique of the game just gets better all the time. so many balls that i thought would produce weakish returns by wawrinka, and he just crushed them right back like they were nothing. anyway, bravo to the dude for almost making his first major final. :applause:

and al trautwig was pretty annoying: "i feel like the match is going to turn this way... i feel like that was a big point... i can't stop staring at wawrinka's broken racket... i feel the momentum shifting... let's zoom in and take another look at the racket, and then a replay of when stan busted it up."

bloody hell. can we get an actual tennis guy in there next time??

well, thank god for djokes he has a day of rest tomorrow, although if it's against nadal, that still might not be enough. :S

[bdreason]

nadal still has to play gasquet.


I'd be surprised if Gasquet can get a break, let alone win a set.

[gigantes]

I'd be surprised if Gasquet can get a break, let alone win a set.
i know, but man... at least let's allow the guy to play, huh?

[Qwyjibo]

Hopefully Djokovic will be tired for the final. I was hoping Federer or Murray would go further in this one but Nadal beating Djokovic would be fine too.

[imdaman99]

Let's go Nadal! Get your revenge on Djoka, you owe him

[alenleomessi]

i know, but man... at least let's allow the guy to play, huh?
nadal didnt :oldlol:

[gigantes]

nadal didnt :oldlol:
actually gasquet did better against him than anyone else in the tournament, no? that

[gigantes]

btw, i’m trying to figure out what’s going on with federer’s forearm, here. doesn’t quite look like hair.

http://i.imgur.com/EhqyqZJ.jpg

[Sarcastic]

Serena about to get another title.

[dr.hee]

[QUOTE=gigantes]btw, i

[gigantes]

I think it's simply wet hair kinda curled up. My legs look somewhat similar after I take a shower.
ah, maybe that's it. i was gonna say... he's way too young to get varicose veins on his forearms. i'm not even sure if it's possible. :P


these people do spend a hell of a lot of time in the sun, though. like... unless they're religious with the sunblock, it's gotta catch up at some point.

[DropStep]

Always funny to compare Serena's physique to the other female tennis players.

Muscular chick with giant tits and ass beating up on all the skinny flat chested chicks. Straight out of a Japanese cartoon.

[imdaman99]

Serena is a woman playing in a girls sport.
She is so dominant, there is no reason for her to NOT get a Serena slam every year.

[dude77]

Serena is a woman playing in a girls sport.
She is so dominant, there is no reason for her to NOT get a Serena slam every year.

Azarenka can play right there with her .. she just doesn't seem to have that killer instinct when she needs it .. frustrating player to root for

[DuMa]

Apparently Novak and Li Na are playing a tennis match in Shanghai later this year.

why cant it be Serena?

[gigantes]

Azarenka can play right there with her .. she just doesn't seem to have that killer instinct when she needs it .. frustrating player to root for
frustrating players to even -listen- to.

i mean, if i turn down the volume to quiet their shrieking, then i can't hear the crowd and the commentary. :(

[RagaZ]

Nadal killin' Djokovic :bowdown:

Gawd-mode.

[imdaman99]

Nadal takes the first set pretty easily 6-2.

Lets go Rafa :applause:

[Carbine]

Rafa making Federer fans nervous.

[Graviton]

Prime Federer is still the GOAT, he owned Nadal/Djoko with ease few years ago but now past 30 he is noticeably slower and weaker but still the skill is there.

[RagaZ]

Prime Federer is still the GOAT, he owned Nadal/Djoko with ease few years ago but now past 30 he is noticeably slower and weaker but still the skill is there.
Owned Nadal?:oldlol: :facepalm

Nadal owns Federer and has done it in his whole career. Even when he was very young and Federer was in his prime.

[Carbine]

He owned Nadal with ease the last few years yet Nadal is 4-0 against him in Majors since 2008?

[Smoke117]

Djokovic needs to stop ****ing up. He works hard for that break in this 2nd set and just gives it back with ease. He hasn't been consistent at all.

[Smoke117]

Nice 1 set to 1. These two guys put on the most epic matches. They also go four hours or so in a five setter.

[alenleomessi]

this is going 5 sets... like most people expected really..

[gigantes]

i

[imdaman99]

dangit now nadal cant even hold :rant

[Smoke117]

this is going 5 sets... like most people expected really..


I dunno... I think Djokovic is going to take this in four. During most of his matches he always plays like a fool, but once he gets going he's tough...especially on the hard courts where he is easily the best player.

[Smoke117]

dangit now nadal cant even hold :rant

Djokovic is the best returner in the world...he makes it hard for ANYONE to hold serve and Nadal may have gotten better with his serve, but he's not elite or anything. Nadal was bound to be broken more than a couple of times during this match. Neither does Djokovic have a dominant service game though. We all knew we would see a lot of breaks.

[bagelred]

Man, this #1 seed...I forget his name....this guy is No Djok.

[Graviton]

Ah wtf now Nadal is coming back, this match is giving me near heart attacks every minute. Just end it already Djoko.

[Graviton]

Nadal about to be fined for flopping. :oldlol:

[aj1987]

The stamina that these guys have! Damn!

[imdaman99]

WOW rafa... so much heart :D

up 2 sets to 1

but djokos been here before

[DuMa]

Rafa grinded away at that 3rd set. relentless. Joker has the highest potential to crack unlimited lasers from everywhere but Nadal is the most consistent. He wont make the errors.

[aj1987]

Epic shit going on!

[Graviton]

Nadal still hitting strong, Djoko kinda slowed down. I think this is over.

[bagelred]

Nadal > Lebron

Yeah, I said it.

[aj1987]

Djokovic is gassed.

[Graviton]

Nadal > Lebron

Yeah, I said it.
The endurance and cardio of elite Tennis players is way better than NBA players. They can go at this for 4-5 hours, basketball players are gassed after 30-40 minutes.

[RagaZ]

Nadal > Lebron

Yeah, I said it.
Nadal is a mental giant, unlike LeFraud.

I've never seen Nadal quit.

[Qwyjibo]

Rafa making Federer fans nervous.
Nah.

I'm a Federer fan who has rooted for him all the time but I 100% hope Rafa wins this. Both Fed and Rafa have been awesome champions and Djokovic can be an annoying turd. And for those fans who hope that Federer remains the GOAT, I don't think they have to worry much. Fair or not, I still don't think Rafa will be viewed equally to Fed if an overwhelming majority of his GS wins are at the French.

[DuMa]

The endurance and cardio of elite Tennis players is way better than NBA players. They can go at this for 4-5 hours, basketball players are gassed after 30-40 minutes.

agreed but Tennis players dont have to jump or play with contact as much as basketball players. Its really pointless to debate between the two sports because theyre completely different workouts on your body.

[Graviton]

Djoko going 2011 Lebron mode. Nadal closing this out in the 4th.

[DuMa]

I picked Rafa in 4 and hes in control but I never like to eliminate Joke before he is done. He can come back from this.

[bagelred]

Djokovic > Lebron

Yeah, I said it.

[DuMa]

double break. its done. Rafa cant possibly choke in epic proportions

[Graviton]

agreed but Tennis players dont have to jump or play with contact as much as basketball players. Its really pointless to debate between the two sports because theyre completely different workouts on your body.
Eh they still have to run left, right, forward, backward while swinging a near 1 pound racket for 3-5 hours. If anything, Tennis is even MORE physically demanding than basketball. Running and jumping isn't hard, especially when you don't go full speed for the whole game like in Tennis. Players usually coast, play lazy defense, and get shitload of breaks with between timeouts, gatorade, halftime, bench substitutions. If you actually measure real 100% effort and physical activity NBA players only showcase it for 10 minutes.

In Tennis they go hard all game because they can't rest for much and have to stay focused because the speed the game is played with is way ahead of NBA. It's really not even close.

[bagelred]

Nadal winning right now is like Spurs up 5 with 30 seconds left.




:eek:

[Graviton]

Nadal winning right now is like Spurs up 5 with 30 seconds left.




:eek:
No Ray Allen to save Djoko sadly. :oldlol:

[AirGauge23]

Nadal is on Steroids.

[alenleomessi]

nadal is unbeatable on his day

[DuMa]

Eh they still have to run left, right, forward, backward while swinging a near 1 pound racket for 3-5 hours. If anything, Tennis is even MORE physically demanding than basketball. Running and jumping isn't hard, especially when you don't go full speed for the whole game like in Tennis. Players usually coast, play lazy defense, and get shitload of breaks with between timeouts, gatorade, halftime, bench substitutions. If you actually measure real 100% effort and physical activity NBA players only showcase it for 10 minutes.

In Tennis they go hard all game because they can't rest for much and have to stay focused because the speed the game is played with is way ahead of NBA. It's really not even close.

i could debate with you for hours but thats for another thread.

[imdaman99]

Rafa Nadal won :banana:

#13 :rockon:

[DuMa]

13 in '13.

he broke Djokovic's will.

[bagelred]

McEnroe > Lebron

Yeah, I said it.

[RagaZ]

Nadal gonna catch Sampras 14 slams soon :pimp:

The question is Federer's 17. That will be tough.

[Sarcastic]

GS #13 for Nadal. Only 4 more and he is the official GOAT. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[b1imtf]

Nadal gonna catch Sampras 14 slams soon :pimp:

The question is Federer's 17. That will be tough.
He can do it

[Graviton]

GS #13 for Nadal. Only 4 more and he is the official GOAT. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Goat of clay maybe, 8 wins in French Open doesn't make you the GOAT.

[imdaman99]

Goat of clay maybe, 8 wins in French Open doesn't make you the GOAT.
Maybe? He is already GOAT of clay :lol

The only place he has 1 is in Australian Open, he lost to Djokavic in a legendary match there. I think if he gets another there, it's ok for him to be considered GOAT if he gets more than Fed's 17.

[bagelred]

FUN FACT: Mary Carillo's highest ranking as a player was only 33.


But still.....Carillo > Lebron.

[imdaman99]

$3.6 million. What a payday :eek:

[Graviton]

$3.6 million. What a payday :eek:
That's like 500k after US taxes.

[Carbine]

Nah.

I'm a Federer fan who has rooted for him all the time but I 100% hope Rafa wins this. Both Fed and Rafa have been awesome champions and Djokovic can be an annoying turd. And for those fans who hope that Federer remains the GOAT, I don't think they have to worry much. Fair or not, I still don't think Rafa will be viewed equally to Fed if an overwhelming majority of his GS wins are at the French.

I believe your hatred for Novak is greater than the fanism of Federer.

I don't know how a guy with a winning record of 8-2 against Federer in Majors, a gold medal that Roger does not have and for sake of argument 17 majors doesn't get at least a 50/50 split of votes for GOAT when it comes to that point.

History remembers winning. Not where you won.

[Graviton]

I believe your hatred for Novak is greater than the fanism of Federer.

I don't know how a guy with a winning record of 8-2 against Federer in Majors, a gold medal that Roger does not have and for sake of argument 17 majors doesn't get at least a 50/50 split of votes for GOAT when it comes to that point.

History remembers winning. Not where you won.
Yea that's why Bill Russel is GOAT in NBA...oh wait.

When and where you win obviously matters in sports, context is important.

[gigantes]

IMO the greatest player in terms of accomplishment is still rod laver. all these modern guys are pretty much just jockeying for #2, and i don't know that nadal is all that close to sampras or federer yet.

federer himself doesn't even have half the titles that laver racked up.


anyway, good match, rafa! you beat my boy, and certainly look like the player of the year for '13. well done. :cheers:

[Sarcastic]

Goat of clay maybe, 8 wins in French Open doesn't make you the GOAT.


Actually Nadal's dominance in H2H vs Federer probably means he can be GOAT with only 16 Slams. He's also won on every surface including 2 at Wimbledon.

Stay mad.

[Carbine]

Yea that's why Bill Russel is GOAT in NBA...oh wait.

When and where you win obviously matters in sports, context is important.

Illogical to compare basketball players to tennis players.

Tennis is an individual sport. There are no teammates, coaches making decisions, etc that greatly effect winning like Basketball.

[gigantes]

Greatest Of All Time in Men's Tennis:

http://www.tennis.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Laver-GOAT-460x306.jpg


- 200 career titles, far and away the most in history.

- played on a different mix of surfaces than today (grass, clay, wood) but still dominated them all.

- only male player in history to win a calendar grand slam... and he did it twice. (1962, 1969)

- was ineligible to compete in grand slams during five of his prime years, as they were restricted to amateurs until 1968. this would likely have added about ten more majors to his total.

- in spite of that, still won 19 singles majors, i.e. 11 grand slams and 8 pro slams, which were of equal standing to grand slams in that era.

- won nine more majors in doubles... a rare feat for a men's single player, for a total of 28 total majors.

- set the all-time record for winning 22 titles in one season in 1962.

- he holds many more records, but that's good for now.

- interesting side-notes: he was one of the shortest top players ever at 5'8" and still dominated the sport in to his mid-30's.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d4/Rod_Laver_backhand.jpg

GOAT!

[DuMa]

Reflecting back on the match, sure the drama was high but it didnt meet the hype imho. Rafa and Nole had far better matches against each other. This one was very disappointing in terms of their usual high quality matches. Nole only brought it for 1.5 sets of tennis. everything else was just an error fest from Djokovic. Nadal served like shit and was able to hold it together because hes mentally stronger. He was just wise not to go for many winners since Djokovic was collasping after each error penetrated his weak fragile mind.

2013 Roland Garros SF and Aussie '12 Final are the bars of quality for their matches. They will probably meet again in a GS Final but i hope they can beat the quality of those 2 matches

[bdreason]

Actually Nadal's dominance in H2H vs Federer probably means he can be GOAT with only 16 Slams. He's also won on every surface including 2 at Wimbledon.

Stay mad.


The majority of their matches when Fed was still in his prime took place on clay, because Nadal wasn't good enough at the time to make the finals of any other GS. Also, styles makes fights, and just because Nadal has a good record H2H against Fed, doesn't make him the better tennis player.

I respect Nadal. The greatest clay court player of all-time, and proving to be one of the greatest players ever. However, he could win 20 GS's and I still wouldn't think he was better at Tennis than Federer. Nadals game is rough (ugly IMO) and one-dimensional (although his serve has improved), while Fed's game is far more technical and refined.

If Nadal goes on the win more GS's than Fed, I have no problem with people claiming he's the GOAT... but he'll never be a better Tennis player in my opinion. Prime Federer was simply better at more aspects of the game. That said, Nadal has really improved his serve over the past year, and it's a big reason why he's taken his game to another level.

[bdreason]

agreed but Tennis players dont have to jump or play with contact as much as basketball players. Its really pointless to debate between the two sports because theyre completely different workouts on your body.


I think the constant lateral movement associated with Tennis is actually worse on your body than playing Basketball. Until recent times, 30 years old was considered a senior citizen in the Tennis world. These guys are essentially running suicides for 4-5 hours, and typically have less than 48 hours between matches.

[gigantes]

... I respect Nadal. The greatest clay court player of all-time, and proving to be one of the greatest players ever. However, he could win 20 GS's and I still wouldn't think he was better at Tennis than Federer. Nadals game is rough (ugly IMO) and one-dimensional (although his serve has improved), while Fed's game is far more technical and refined. ...
that seems a bit harsh. you wouldn't hold federer's or sampras' dominance at wimbledon against their major count, would you? nadal is also a career slam winner, so you can't say he skipped any particular surface, either. and isn't the most effective game the ultimate measure of 'better'?


having said that, i can only admire nadal SO much. he plays a game which is not healthy and is not wise for the average person to play. already in his mid-20's he has somewhat arthritic knees and probably has to use every tool in the trainer's arsenal to keep his body in playing condition, including cortisone injections, i would think. who knows how easily he'll be able to even walk around once his career is over?


but federer is someone everyone can emulate for his tremendous range of technique and fluid game. djoker and murray, everyone can admire and emulate for their tremendous commitment to defense and all around games. fed in particular, you could be 80+ years old and still apply more from his game than any other player.

nobody who wants to play healthy tennis all their lives should be playing like rafa, IMO.

[bdreason]

that seems a bit harsh. you wouldn't hold federer's or sampras' dominance at wimbledon against their major count, would you? nadal is also a career slam winner, so you can't say he skipped any particular surface, either. and isn't the most effective game the ultimate measure of 'better'?


having said that, i can only admire nadal SO much. he plays a game which is not healthy and is not wise for the average person to play. already in his mid-20's he has somewhat arthritic knees and probably has to use every tool in the trainer's arsenal to keep his body in playing condition, including cortisone injections, i would think. who knows how easily he'll be able to even walk around once his career is over?


but federer is someone everyone can emulate for his tremendous range of technique and fluid game. djoker and murray, everyone can admire and emulate for their tremendous commitment to defense and all around games. fed in particular, you could be 80+ years old and still apply more from his game than any other player.

nobody who wants to play healthy tennis all their lives should be playing like rafa, IMO.


As I stated before, if Rafa wins more GS's than Federer, I have no problem with people claiming he's the GOAT. However, in my opinion, he lacks the pure technical skills of Federer. Nadal's game is predicated on playing defense, and wearing down his opponents. His goal isn't so much to hit winners, as it is to force his opponents to hit unforced errors. It works for Nadal, because he's an amazing athlete, and a win is a win, so I can't hate him for his strategy and/or approach to the game. However, from a technical standpoint, his game is raw and unrefined IN MY OPINION. It's like Foreman (Nadal) vs. Ali (Federer). Both have completely different approaches to the fight/match, but both styles are very effective.

[gigantes]

As I stated before, if Rafa wins more GS's than Federer, I have no problem with people claiming he's the GOAT. However, in my opinion, he lacks the pure technical skills of Federer. Nadal's game is predicated on playing defense, and wearing down his opponents. His goal isn't so much to hit winners, as it is to force his opponents to hit unforced errors. It works for Nadal, because he's an amazing athlete, and a win is a win, so I can't hate him for his strategy and/or approach to the game. However, from a technical standpoint, his game is raw and unrefined IN MY OPINION. It's like Foreman (Nadal) vs. Ali (Federer). Both have completely different approaches to the fight/match, but both styles are very effective.
IMO that view of nadal is years outdated. to call him technically raw and unrefined at this point is pretty far beyond the pale.

meh, nevermind... pointless sports arguments are pointless.

[bdreason]

IMO that view of nadal is years outdated. to call him technically raw and unrefined at this point is pretty far beyond the pale.

meh, nevermind... pointless sports arguments are pointless.


What variety does he have in his game? He doesn't hit winners with his backhand. Doesn't hit winners with dropshots. Isn't great at the net. He essentially just punishes players from the baseline with his defense and heavy topspin forehands until they physically wilt or hit unforced errors. I will admit his serve has improved a lot over the past year, but before that he wasn't a great server either.

[Sarcastic]

I love how Fed fans always move the goalposts. As soon as Fed got to 15, he became the undisputed GOAT. Yet if Nadal catches him, he's not GOAT despite having a superior H2H record vs Fed. If Nadal gets to 17, then all of the sudden style of play becomes the issue.


Look I think Fed has the most aesthetically pleasing game to watch of all time. His shot making is a thing of beauty. But there are flaws in his case for GOAT, namely the competition in the early 2000s, or lack thereof, when he racked up most of his wins. He played against the same cookie cutter baseliners, and none of them were names anyone will remember. The 2 best players in the first half of the decade other than Fed were past prime Agassi, and Lleyton Hewitt. As soon as the competition began to heat up in the second half of the decade, then Fed's dominance began to diminish.


I am not saying Fed is not worthy of his 17, but I don't think he gets to that number if the competition had been more fierce early on.

[Jasi]

A guy with a double-handed backhand will never be the GOAT in my book.

[EnoughSaid]

I'm sorry but since 2010, Rafa has not proven that he can consistently compete, largely due to injuries. I feel like if you're going to only come back for the French and play well there while getting upset on other surfaces, that's not greatness. If Nadal wants to be in the GOAT convo, he'll need to have more than just 1 Australian, 2 US Opens and 2 Wimbledons.

Anyone else still think Fed might reinvent his game and come back strong next year? I feel like he still has a major or two left in him, and seeing him win would be awesome and so so satisfying.

[Lebowsky]

I'm sorry but since 2010, Rafa has not proven that he can consistently compete, largely due to injuries. I feel like if you're going to only come back for the French and play well there while getting upset on other surfaces, that's not greatness. If Nadal wants to be in the GOAT convo, he'll need to have more than just 1 Australian, 2 US Opens and 2 Wimbledons.

Anyone else still think Fed might reinvent his game and come back strong next year? I feel like he still has a major or two left in him, and seeing him win would be awesome and so so satisfying.

No, I don't think so. Federer looks has been looking extremely pedestrian lately. He can still beat anyone on a good day, but those days are starting to be more and more far and between. You have to beat several top players in order to win a major, and I don't think he has enough gas left in the tank. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[pethuel03]

IMO, Nadal is the most mentally tough player ever. This guy wins solely due to heart and mental toughness. Gotta respect that even though he's not the most technical guy.

[bagelred]

I think Sampras would have trouble nowadays because the surfaces have changed and the game has "slowed down". Sampras is like the best serve and volleyerererer ever. But no one plays that style nowadays.

But still.....

Sampras > Lebron

[Jasi]

Game has slowed down? If you mean that serve-and-volley is dying, sure, but that's because the game has sped up.
Players got so strong and racquets got so effective that they don't need to take the risk to charge the net, when they can simply launch bombs from the baseline to win points... that's it.
And you didn't have returners like Nole or Murray until some years ago.

[Sarcastic]

Game has slowed down? If you mean that serve-and-volley is dying, sure, but that's because the game has sped up.
Players got so strong and racquets got so effective that they don't need to take the risk to charge the net, when they can simply launch bombs from the baseline to win points... that's it.
And you didn't have returners like Nole or Murray until some years ago.


The surfaces have been slowed down, especially at Wimbledon. Nadal would never have won in the 1980s or 1990s with the low cut grass they used to play on.

[Jasi]

The surfaces have been slowed down, especially at Wimbledon. Nadal would never have won in the 1980s or 1990s with the low cut grass they used to play on.

Yes, there was a time some ten years ago when the game had sped up too much in terms of serves, and aces were too frequent (the days of Krajicek, Philippoussis, Ivanisevic, Rusedski), matches too short and less varied for the people to enjoy.
So yes, surfaces (and serves) have been slowing down.
But overall the game is dramatically more powerful and faster than before (especially compared to the '80s and early '90s).
Just compare a baseline exchange of the '80s with one of today, it's not even close.

[Carbine]

I don't understand how no matter how many titles Nadal wins, he will never be a better tennis player than Federer.

Um, they have played against one another....and Nadal owns a 8-2 record. Nadal has a winning record against every ranked player! In probably the deepest and most talented pool of players of all time.

Nadal has no Nadal to his Federer.

Seems like an illogical view point to have, IMO.

[Sarcastic]

I don't understand how no matter how many titles Nadal wins, he will never be a better tennis player than Federer.

Um, they have played against one another....and Nadal owns a 8-2 record. Nadal has a winning record against every ranked player! In probably the deepest and most talented pool of players of all time.

Nadal has no Nadal to his Federer.

Seems like an illogical view point to have, IMO.

I agree with you about Nadal. I disagree with you about the deepest field of all time. It's the most top heavy of all time. The same 4 guys win every tournament.

[b1imtf]

I think Sampras would have trouble nowadays because the surfaces have changed and the game has "slowed down". Sampras is like the best serve and volleyerererer ever. But no one plays that style nowadays.

But still.....

Sampras > Lebron
Anyone's posts> yours

[Carbine]

I agree with you about Nadal. I disagree with you about the deepest field of all time. It's the most top heavy of all time. The same 4 guys win every tournament.

What era had a more deep, talented pool of players?

[Jasi]

It is too difficult to compare wide pools of players from different eras.

First half the '90s was quite deep anyways.

You had Becker, Edberg, Agassi, Sampras, Courier in the top tier. Late McEnroe too.
And then guys like Chang, Muster, Chesnokov, Mecir, Emilio Sanchez, Brad Gilbert, Novacek, Magnus Larsson, Richard Fromberg, Jonas Svensson, Guy Forget, Ivanisevic, Bruguera, Stich, Krajicek, Berasategui, Korda, Kafelnikov, Medvedev...

I can't say why they stand out to me as a better pool than the current one, but they do.

[gigantes]

it's the racquets. those are without a doubt in my mind, the single biggest thing that's changed over the decades.

the speed of the courts, the enlargement of the talent pool, the general technique of the game, the training and nutrition... all push the sport forward, but are still in the rear view mirror to the main thing.


racquets are dramatically lighter, more powerful, with bigger sweet spots, spinnier, and with more options and tweaks available than ever before. this opens WIDE the possibilities for advanced technique and for stronger and more athletic players to take advantage of.

honorable mention: the strings.