Better overall player at 28: Kobe Bryant or LeBron James?

[hawkfan]

Better overall player at 28: Kobe Bryant (when he was 28) or LeBron James (currently 28)?

[kNicKz]

Kobe

[aj1987]

Lebron. It's pretty close though.

[Mr Exlax]

Overall I'd give it to LeBron.
Scoring wise Kobe.

[handbanana]

PPG
kobe 31.6 lebron 26.8

RPG
5.7 8.0

AST
5.4 7.3

Shooting % (fg,3p,ft)
Kobe: .463 .344 .868 Lebron: .565 .406 .753

STL/BLK:
Kobe: 1.4 0.5 Lebron: 1.7 0.9

ADVANCED:

PER:
26.1 31.6

TS%
.580 .640

Win Shares:
13.0 19.3

[Bandito]

They are different players. Kobe is mainly a shooter while Lebron is a slasher. I don't even know why both are compared when they are so different. The same can be said about pre 1st retirement MJ and Kobe. Kobehas always played like post 1st retirement MJ.

[The_Yearning]

Well "overall" it's Lebron... but if you're just straight up asking who was the better player, it's Kobe and not close.

[Trollsmasher]

LeBron by far

[OldSkoolball#52]

Well "overall" it's Lebron... but if you're just straight up asking who was the better player, it's Kobe and not close.


:wtf:

[aj1987]

Well "overall" it's Lebron... but if you're just straight up asking who was the better player, it's Kobe and not close.
http://www.troll.me/images/pissed-off-obama/you-sir-are-retarded.jpg

[G-train]

Lebron is a much more complete player you Kobetards
Defensively he is much more advanced, yet can score just as well (albeit in a different manner), and is a better playmaker.
That's not a knock on Kobe, who is probably the third best player ever.

[DukeDelonte13]

I think a better question is which player would you rather have leading a team in a finals series at 28?

[KG215]

Well "overall" it's Lebron... but if you're just straight up asking who was the better player, and it's not close.
That phrase should warrant an auto-ban.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Both have their flaws.

Kobe more skilled, LeBron more productive.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Both have their flaws.

Kobe more skilled, LeBron more productive.


Jamal Crawford mo skilled than Shaq.


So I got Craw as the better overall player at 28 den Shaq. Ya dig?

[longhornfan1234]

LeBron.

[raprap]

Lebron

[quick96]

Kobe "the G.o.a.t" Bryant

At Age 28: 3 Nba Championships

Lehype "dunked On By College Player" James

At Age 28: 2 Nba Championships

WINNER : KOBE "THE G.O.A.T." BRYANT

[Lebron23]

Kobe "the G.o.a.t" Bryant

At Age 28: 3 Nba Championships

Lehype "dunked On By College Player" James

At Age 28: 2 Nba Championships

WINNER : KOBE "THE G.O.A.T." BRYANT




LeBron at age 28

4x MVP, 2x MVP, 1x scoring champion, 2x nba championship.

Kobe at age 28

3x championship, 1x scoring champion.

[quick96]

LeBron at age 28

4 MVP 3 finals MVP, 1x scoring champion, 2x nba championship.

Kobe at age 28

3x championship, 1 scoring champion.

LeHype James at age 28 = carried by Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh and ESPN/David Stern to two gift wrapped NBA Championships after leaving the Cavaliers and disrespecting the city of Cleveland.

Kobe "the G.O.A.T." Bryant = Teamed up with Snack O'neil to win 3 Championships in a row.

[aj1987]

LeHype James at age 28 = carried by Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh and ESPN/David Stern to two gift wrapped NBA Championships after leaving the Cavaliers and disrespecting the city of Cleveland.

Kobe "the G.O.A.T." Bryant = Teamed up with Snack O'neil to win 3 Championships in a row.
Kobe at 28 = Carried by Shaq and raped a girl.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

You've got to go with lebron, 4 mvps, 2 finals mvps

[funnystuff]

Well "overall" it's Lebron... but if you're just straight up asking who was the better player, it's Kobe and not close.
Ban this man please.

[Le Shaqtus]

Spanoulis.

[zoom17]

Lebron

[tpols]

That phrase should warrant an auto-ban.
:roll:

Slightly Lebron.. Because he cares about defense more. But both have their flaws.. Lebron might go passive/choke and kobe might get a hero/chuck

[quick96]

Kobe at 28 = Carried by Shaq and raped a girl.
LeHYpe "David Sterns Bit*h" James = 1 championship and a half
1 full season championship
and the other in a lock out
shortened season with two
2 hall of fame'rs to carry
his chocking @ss...
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA! PATHETIC!!!

LEHYPE= CUPCAKE
KOBE = G.O.A.T.

[The Choken One]

Both amazing players. Kobe was clearly the better scorer, but I'd give just about everything else to LeBron. Kobe could of been better in other aspects, but that boy was a scoring machine.

[Lebron23]

LeHYpe "David Sterns Bit*h" James = 1 championship and a half
1 full season championship
and the other in a lock out
shortened season with two
2 hall of fame'rs to carry
his chocking @ss...
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA! PATHETIC!!!

LEHYPE= CUPCAKE
KOBE = G.O.A.T.


What???

[G-Funk]

At age 28 you could not sag off Kobe and dare him to shoot open jumpers.

At age 28 you could not play Kobe 1 on 1 in the post the way the Pacers and Spurs did Lebron.

This is just a fact. IF u think 2 assist is enough to make up for that, than Lebron is ur obvious choice.

[SilkkTheShocker]

LeBron and it's not even close.

[KG215]

]At age 28 you could not sag off Kobe and dare him to shoot open jumpers.[/B]

At age 28 you could not play Kobe 1 on 1 in the post the way the Pacers and Spurs did Lebron.

This is just a fact. IF u think 2 assist is enough to make up for that, than Lebron is ur obvious choice.
I guess this is just something we should prepare to repeatedly hear from Kobe stans from now until the end of the internets? Never mind that Kobe has several of his own poor Finals performances that actually resulted in losses, but coming to a conclusion for this argument based on one playoff series is about as ignorant as it gets.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jamal Crawford mo skilled than Shaq.


So I got Craw as the better overall player at 28 den Shaq. Ya dig?
Kobe and LeBron are comparable players from a skill perspective.

Shaq and Crawford? Completely different.

Are you high, or just angry?

[G-Funk]

I guess this is just something we should prepare to repeatedly hear from Kobe stans from now until the end of the internets? Never mind that Kobe has several of his own poor Finals performances that actually resulted in losses, but coming to a conclusion for this argument based on one playoff series is about as ignorant as it gets.
One series are u ****ing with me? Lebron has wet the bed more than just one series, and the fact remains, even age 23 u could never play Kobe the way teams have played Lebron in the past. Don't get butt hurt its just a fact.

[KG215]

One series are u ****ing with me? Lebron has wet the bed more than just one series, and the fact remains, even age 23 u could never play Kobe the way teams have played Lebron in the past. Don't get butt hurt its just a fact.
And Kobe hasn't?

Fact of the matter is, you can find multiple playoff series for every consensus top 10-15 player where they were bad/terrible. So using one or all of them to tear down a player makes little to no sense, since your favorite player has his own playoff failures.

[MastaKilla]

And Kobe hasn't?

Fact of the matter is, you can find multiple playoff series for every consensus top 10-15 player where they were bad/terrible. So using one or all of them to tear down a player makes little to no sense, since your favorite player has his own playoff failures.

If only people cared about Durant enough, you wouldn't have to spend all your time hating on Kobe

[EnoughSaid]

LeBron James. It's that simple. LeBron does absolutely everything well. His only flaw is that he's not as aggressive at times. :lol

[KG215]

If only people cared about Durant enough, you wouldn't have to spend all your time hating on Kobe
I know, right? If only....

Hopefully, maybe people will actually care.


Now, can you tell me what part of my post is "hating" on Kobe?

[Papaya Petee]

One series are u ****ing with me? Lebron has wet the bed more than just one series, and the fact remains, even age 23 u could never play Kobe the way teams have played Lebron in the past. Don't get butt hurt its just a fact.
Yet LeBron still clearly outproduces Kobe in every single aspect of basketball come NBA Finals time :roll: :roll: So either teams find a super method to lock down Kobe, or he's just a underproducing chocker come NBA Finals

[Noob Saibot]

anyone posted this yet? I'll take the man with the headband.

http://nbanewssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/a0cf0f1ffd84b82bf342377f86272486_large.png

[NumberSix]

LeBron's 4th best season > Kobe's best season.

[Chrono90]

Kobe is a dead on scorer while he does other things good too. Lebron isn't as good of a scorer but does other things better. Lebron's better overall while Kobe's more clutch and a better closer.

It all depends on what your team needs and what you think is more important as a player. This is a very close call. I'll go with Kobe.

[Lebron23]

anyone posted this yet? I'll take the man with the headband.

http://nbanewssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/a0cf0f1ffd84b82bf342377f86272486_large.png


Wow. Kobe had Zero triple doubles in the playoffs in his first 10/11 seasons in the NBA.

[funnystuff]

anyone posted this yet? I'll take the man with the headband.

http://nbanewssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/a0cf0f1ffd84b82bf342377f86272486_large.png
Was just posting this exact picture then had to delete because you beat me to it.

But /thread regardless.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Kobe is a dead on scorer while he does other things good too. Lebron isn't as good of a scorer but does other things better. Lebron's better overall while Kobe's more clutch and a better closer.

It all depends on what your team needs and what you think is more important as a player. This is a very close call. I'll go with Kobe.
Stats say Lebron is more clutch. But don't let facts get in the way of your agenda

[funnystuff]

Kobe is a dead on scorer while he does other things good too. Lebron isn't as good of a scorer but does other things better. Lebron's better overall while Kobe's more clutch and a better closer.

It all depends on what your team needs and what you think is more important as a player. This is a very close call. I'll go with Kobe.
Why do people even say Kobe is clutch? When did that myth even get started?

[Trollsmasher]

Why do people even say Kobe is clutch? When did that myth even get started?
He shoots a shit ton of shots and when he hits one they put it on ESPN with a "clutch god" moniker.

Nobody then cares that he misses 75% of those shots.

[aj1987]

Kobe is a dead on scorer
Lebron's career average is 27.6 PPG on 50% over 10 years. How's he a better scorer than Lebron? Kobe can score in more ways, but he's not a better scorer. IF you ignore Kobe's first THREE seasons, his career PPG comes to 27.8 PPG on 46%. He scores only .2 PPG more than Lebron on 4% less FG%.

Sorry to break it to you, but Lebron's a better scorer. Kobe can score in more ways though.

[DonDadda59]

How is this even up for debate? The dude who has 4 MVPs and 2 finals MVPs vs the dude who has 0 in both categories? The only thing Kobe did better at that stage (still true today) was miss shots. That's it.

[PickernRoller]

Kobe easily.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Kobe easily.
The guy with 0 finals mvps and 0 mvps? Lol, this guy!

[KingBeasley08]

I honestly can't see any case for Kobe. 3 championships and 0 Finals MVPs along with never being MVP in the regular season

[Nash]

Why do people even create threads like this? I think its pretty clear that Lebron is the better player, people have been saying this for years now. How do you even justify saying Kobe is better?

Lebron just came of a 27/7/8 on 56%, and back to back champion, MVP and FMVP.

People say Lebron gets overrated in the media but on ISH its the exact opposite.

[Heavincent]

Why do people even create threads like this? I think its pretty clear that Lebron is the better player, people have been saying this for years now. How do you even justify saying Kobe is better?

Lebron just came of a 27/7/8 on 56%, and back to back champion, MVP and FMVP.

People say Lebron gets overrated in the media but on ISH its the exact opposite.

Whatever you say pauk.

[branslowski]

This is kinda like a Michael Jordan vs Magic Johnson question, ppl was like "Michael's a better scorer and can take over games, but overall, Magic rebounds better and is a better playmaker, also passes more than chucker Jordan.

All depends what you like more, can't go wrong with either, in this case I'm taking Kobe (Jordan) while you can't go wrong with LeBron (Magic).

[pegasus]

Kobe.

[aj1987]

This is kinda like a Michael Jordan vs Magic Johnson question, ppl was like "Michael's a better scorer and can take over games, but overall, Magic rebounds better and is a better playmaker, also passes more than chucker Jordan.

All depends what you like more, can't go wrong with either, in this case I'm taking Kobe (Jordan) while you can't go wrong with LeBron (Magic).
Kobe is not a better scorer than Lebron.

[grantz]

Overall player - LeBron.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe is not a better scorer than Lebron.


Since he became a starter yes he is

[Trollsmasher]

Since he became a starter yes he is
Pray tell me why did LeBron score more points than Kobe since he came into the league while taking 500 less shots?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Pray tell me why did LeBron score more points than Kobe since he came into the league while taking 500 less shots?

Because the lakers were trying to make the playoffs while the Cavs were content with letting a rookie shoot 19 times a game to score 20 points.

Hence why I said "since he became a starter"

[DukeDelonte13]

Kobe hasn't gotten an MVP award now? :facepalm

I know it was way back when in 2008 but damn...



ITT fanboys are just comparing current Lebron to current Kobe. If half of these posters couldn't tell you that Kobe has gotten an MVP then how do you expect them to evaluate Kobe at 28 years old?

[arifgokcen]

Well "overall" it's Lebron... but if you're just straight up asking who was the better player, it's Kobe and not close.
Are you high :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[aj1987]

Because the lakers were trying to make the playoffs while the Cavs were content with letting a rookie shoot 19 times a game to score 20 points.

Hence why I said "since he became a starter"
I like how you rounded up 18.9 FGA's to 19 and rounded DOWN 20.9 points to 20. :oldlol:

Even if you REMOVE the first TWO seasons, Kobe has a career 27.4 PPG average on 46%. Lebron has a 27.6 PPG average on 50% (including his 21 PPG on 41% rookie year). Even with your cherry picked criteria, Lebron's a better and more efficient scorer than Kobe.

[KG215]

Because the lakers were trying to make the playoffs while the Cavs were content with letting a rookie shoot 19 times a game to score 20 points.

Hence why I said "since he became a starter"
Well, he said since LeBron came into the league, and Kobe was a starter by then, and Kobe was established as the Lakers 1b option.

Since 2003-2004:

Kobe: 743 G, 20,959 points, 15,973 FGA, 28.2 PPG, .452/.337/.841, .559 TS%, .490 eFG%

LeBron: 765 G, 21,081 points, 15,411 FGA, 27.6 PPG, .490/.337/.747, .575 TS%, .524 eFG%


Obviously Kobe would have more points if he had played in as many games as LeBron, but it's still debatable as to who the better scorer has been depending on your criteria. Kobe has averaged 0.6 more PPG, but LeBron has been more efficient.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Well, he said since LeBron came into the league, and Kobe was a starter by then, and Kobe was established as the Lakers 1b option.

Since 2003-2004:

Kobe: 743 G, 20,959 points, 15,973 FGA, 28.2 PPG, .452/.337/.841, .559 TS%, .490 eFG%

LeBron: 765 G, 21,081 points, 15,411 FGA, 27.6 PPG, .490/.337/.747, .575 TS%, .524 eFG%


Obviously Kobe would have more points if he had played in as many games as LeBron, but it's still debatable as to who the better scorer has been depending on your criteria. Kobe has averaged 0.6 more PPG, but LeBron has been more efficient.

Kobe was a starter before 2003-2004.. If you're responding to what i said then you should count Kobe's points and games as a starter to Lebron points and games as a starter..

He was a 29ppg scorer in 2001

[TheMarkMadsen]

I like how you rounded up 18.9 FGA's to 19 and rounded DOWN 20.9 points to 20. :oldlol:

Even if you REMOVE the first TWO seasons, Kobe has a career 27.4 PPG average on 46%. Lebron has a 27.6 PPG average on 50% (including his 21 PPG on 41% rookie year). Even with your cherry picked criteria, Lebron's a better and more efficient scorer than Kobe.

18.9 gets rounded up to 19 and that suprises you? :facepalm

Ok, so 21ppg on 19 shots and 41% shooting.. Im sure Kobe would have been able to average 20ppg on sub par 40% shooting while missing the playoffs his first 2 years if given the chance.

Kobe is a better scorer than Lebron, Kobe's a threat from anywhere on the court, and is one of the most prolific scoreres in NBA history

100+ 40pt games

25 50+ point games

5 60+ pt games

an 81 pt game

4 straight 50pt games in 2007 (as many as Lebron in his entire career) 2 60pt games in during that streak (more than Lebron in his entire career)

2nd most points in NBA history in one game..

the list could go on & on

[KG215]

Kobe was a starter before 2003-2004.. If you're responding to what i said then you should count Kobe's points and games as a starter to Lebron points and games as a starter..

He was a 29ppg scorer in 2001
Kobe, since becoming a starter in 1998-1999:

27.4 PPG, .455/.334/.840/, .556 TS%, .488 eFG%

Compare that to LeBron's career numbers and it actually favors LeBron:

27.6 PPG, .490/.337/.747, .575 TS%, .524 eFG%

[branslowski]

So after watching both players careers, without looking at any stat averages, yawl tellin me LeBron is a greater scorer than Kobe ever was?...:facepalm

[aj1987]

18.9 gets rounded up to 19 and that suprises you? :facepalm
My point is, you decreased the PPG by 0.9 and increased the FGA to 0.1 to suit your agenda.


Ok, so 21ppg on 19 shots and 41% shooting.. Im sure Kobe would have been able to average 20ppg on sub par 40% shooting while missing the playoffs his first 2 years if given the chance.
I removed the first TWO seasons from Kobe's averages. According to your logic, I should remove Lebron's first season as well. That would put him at 28.3. Almost a full point more than Kobe.



Kobe is a better scorer than Lebron, Kobe's a threat from anywhere on the court, and is one of the most prolific scoreres in NBA history
Kobe can score in more ways. He's not a better scorer though. Lebron averages 0.2 PPG more than Kobe on 4% better FG%. That is after removing 2 of Kobe's seasons.


100+ 40pt games

25 50+ point games

5 60+ pt games

an 81 pt game

4 straight 50pt games in 2007 (as many as Lebron in his entire career) 2 60pt games in during that streak (more than Lebron in his entire career)

2nd most points in NBA history in one game..

the list could go on & on
All that scoring and he still averages less than Lebron on worse efficiency.
Wait, doesn't that mean that Lebron is a more consistent scorer as well?

[KG215]

So after watching both players careers, without looking at any stat averages, yawl tellin me LeBron is a greater scorer than Kobe ever was?...:facepalm
Well, LeBron has scored at a higher clip in his career on better efficiency, so it's not like it's absurd for someone to say he is the superior scorer. It's just up to your own personal criteria and what deems someone to be the better scorer.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Amazing how people can't get over the fact LeBron is a better player than Kobe ever was. Really sad at this point.

[Vienceslav]

Well, that's a tough one, they both did what was needed for their team, for me Kobe loses this argument by his own fault of trying to be Jordan, which is something Lebron gave up 2 season ago.

[juju151111]

Well, LeBron has scored at a higher clip in his career on better efficiency, so it's not like it's absurd for someone to say he is the superior scorer. It's just up to your own personal criteria and what deems someone to be the better scorer.
Owning the Kobetards one by one:applause:

[TheMarkMadsen]

My point is, you decreased the PPG by 0.9 and increased the FGA to 0.1 to suit your agenda.


I removed the first TWO seasons from Kobe's averages. According to your logic, I should remove Lebron's first season as well. That would put him at 28.3. Almost a full point more than Kobe.



Kobe can score in more ways. He's not a better scorer though. Lebron averages 0.2 PPG more than Kobe on 4% better FG%. That is after removing 2 of Kobe's seasons.


All that scoring and he still averages less than Lebron on worse efficiency.
Wait, doesn't that mean that Lebron is a more consistent scorer as well?

How many 60 pt games does Lebron have compared to Kobe?

How many 50 pt games does Lebron have compared to Kobe?

How many 50pt games has Lebron strung together in a row?

[TheMarkMadsen]

My point is, you decreased the PPG by 0.9 and increased the FGA to 0.1 to suit your agenda.


I removed the first TWO seasons from Kobe's averages. According to your logic, I should remove Lebron's first season as well. That would put him at 28.3. Almost a full point more than Kobe.



Kobe can score in more ways. He's not a better scorer though. Lebron averages 0.2 PPG more than Kobe on 4% better FG%. That is after removing 2 of Kobe's seasons.


All that scoring and he still averages less than Lebron on worse efficiency.
Wait, doesn't that mean that Lebron is a more consistent scorer as well?

"By my logic" you don't remove Lebrons first season because he was a starter how dense are you!

How many 50 pt games does Lebron have compared to Kobe?

How many 60 pt games does Lebron have compared to Kobe?

Kobe Bryant is the one of 2 players, the other being Wilt to average 40ppg over an entire calender month..he's done this twice

Once in 2006 where he average 43ppg in January and 41 ppg in February of 03

Bryant had a 5 game winning streak where he averaged 54 ppg on 52% shooting from the field 48% from 3 & 91% from the line..

He had a 9 game streak where he scored 40 points in 9 straight games (4thd longest in history) where the Lakers went 7-2

Rich Bucher after Kobes 50 pt game streak was stopped.. He only scored 43..

"I noticed the weird listlessness of Lamar Odom on D and the careless ballhandling of Smush Parker and the general ambivalence of Kwame Brown that makes it astounding that the Lakers are six games over .500."

"Let's be honest. Bryant isn't judged the same as other players. If personality didn't color judgment, if effort and understanding of the game could be quantified in a boxscore, there would not be any confusion over who the game's best player is. That wasn't his fault until he proved over the last 10 days that he could overcome all that, could force the most anti-Kobe soul to concede that there's no one who can do what he can."

[aj1987]

How many 60 pt games does Lebron have compared to Kobe?

How many 50 pt games does Lebron have compared to Kobe?

How many 50pt games has Lebron strung together in a row?
Cherry picking games?

30+ : Lebron 369 to Kobe's 282.
20+ : Lebron 759 to Kobe's 610.
20<= : Lebron 175 to Kobe's 337.
10<= : Lebron 13 5o Kobe's 98.

How many games in a row did Kobe score 30+ while maintaining a 60%+ FG%? Lebron did it for 6 straight games.

Lebron career PPG = 27.6 on 50%
Kobe career PPG = 25.5 on 46%

Lebron at the same age scored more points than Kobe on better efficiency. Doesn't matter if Kobe had how many ever 50 or 60 point games. Fact is, LEBRON SCORED MORE THAN KOBE ON BETTER EFFICIENCY.



"By my logic" you don't remove Lebrons first season because he was a starter how dense are you!
Isn't that Kobe's fault for not being good enough to be a starter?

[Orlando Magic]

Anyone that lives outside of the California area that says Kobe Bryant deserves to be strung up by a tree with their entrails leaking out onto the ground in public for all of the world to see what the insides of such an idiot looks like.

The only reason I give Cali area people a pass is because all of us have some homerdom to an extent, but just because you get a pass from me thinking you should be hung from a tree doesn't mean you aren't just as stupid.

LeBron as a mother ****ing rookie was a better team player and damn near as impacting on the court as Kobe was AT HIS PEAK.

Kobe was a better scorer INDIVIDUALLY and THAT'S IT. THAT IS NOT THE ONLY PART OF BASKETBALL, LADIES AND GENTLEMAN.

GOOD BASKETBALL IS NOT JUST SCORING.

[KG215]

"By my logic" you don't remove Lebrons first season because he was a starter how dense are you!

How many 50 pt games does Lebron have compared to Kobe?

How many 60 pt games does Lebron have compared to Kobe?

Kobe Bryant is the one of 2 players, the other being Wilt to average 40ppg over an entire calender month..he's done this twice

Once in 2006 where he average 43ppg in January and 41 ppg in February of 03

Bryant had a 5 game winning streak where he averaged 54 ppg on 52% shooting from the field 48% from 3 & 91% from the line..

He had a 9 game streak where he scored 40 points in 9 straight games (4thd longest in history) where the Lakers went 7-2

Rich Bucher after Kobes 50 pt game streak was stopped.. He only scored 43..

"I noticed the weird listlessness of Lamar Odom on D and the careless ballhandling of Smush Parker and the general ambivalence of Kwame Brown that makes it astounding that the Lakers are six games over .500."

"Let's be honest. Bryant isn't judged the same as other players. If personality didn't color judgment, if effort and understanding of the game could be quantified in a boxscore, there would not be any confusion over who the game's best player is. That wasn't his fault until he proved over the last 10 days that he could overcome all that, could force the most anti-Kobe soul to concede that there's no one who can do what he can."
You're confusing prolific scoring/scoring outbursts with being a better scorer, and that's not necessarily the case. It's not wrong, either, because I think everyone has their own criteria for this. Some people may view the more consistent, efficient scorer as the better scorer than the person who is more likely to breakout for 50+ or 60+ points but will also have more 10-19 point games than the other guy.

[Orlando Magic]

You're confusing prolific scoring/scoring outbursts with being a better scorer, and that's not necessarily the case. It's not wrong, either, because I think everyone has their own criteria for this. Some people may view the more consistent, efficient scorer as the better scorer than the person who is more likely to breakout for 50+ or 60+ points but will also have more 10-19 point games than the other guy.

LeBron is a smarter scorer and more efficient scorer.

However, I don't think anyone would argue that he was an actual better scorer. Kobe could just do some things scoring wise individually that LeBron can not... and if he can, he's never displayed it with any type of consistency whatsoever so I kind of doubt it exists. He's had a couple of games where he dropped like 12-20 points in a row but that's about it.

LeBron is a smarter player and more efficient scorer but Kobe was a better one.

LeBron is a better overall player by far and makes a much larger positive impact on the court for his team than Kobe ever did and it's not even close. It's not a debate.

[imdaman99]

better overall player that abandoned and embarrassed his hometown team on national TV

but the better player was kobe. would have been nice to see them match up at similar points in their careers.

[Orlando Magic]

better overall player that abandoned and embarrassed his hometown team on national TV

but the better player was kobe. would have been nice to see them match up at similar points in their careers.

You... are a moron.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Cherry picking games?

30+ : Lebron 369 to Kobe's 282.
20+ : Lebron 759 to Kobe's 610.
20<= : Lebron 175 to Kobe's 337.
10<= : Lebron 13 5o Kobe's 98.

How many games in a row did Kobe score 30+ while maintaining a 60%+ FG%? Lebron did it for 6 straight games.

Lebron career PPG = 27.6 on 50%
Kobe career PPG = 25.5 on 46%

Lebron at the same age scored more points than Kobe on better efficiency. Doesn't matter if Kobe had how many ever 50 or 60 point games. Fact is, LEBRON SCORED MORE THAN KOBE ON BETTER EFFICIENCY.



Isn't that Kobe's fault for not being good enough to be a starter?


Your stats are waaay off



10-21-2012
Career 30-point games: Jordan 562; Kobe 384; LeBron 282

Anyways of course you didn't answer any of the questions.

5 game average of 54ppg on 52% >>>>>>>> 6 games of 30 ppg on 60%

[KG215]

LeBron is a smarter scorer and more efficient scorer.

However, I don't think anyone would argue that he was an actual better scorer. Kobe could just do some things scoring wise individually that LeBron can not... and if he can, he's never displayed it with any type of consistency whatsoever so I kind of doubt it exists. He's had a couple of games where he dropped like 12-20 points in a row but that's about it.

LeBron is a smarter player and more efficient scorer but Kobe was a better one.

LeBron is a better overall player by far and makes a much larger positive impact on the court for his team than Kobe ever did and it's not even close. It's not a debate.
I've always said/thought it's just a matter of personal opinion when it comes to defining a better scorer.

To me, the point of scoring is to put the ball in the basket as efficiently as possible, which better utilizes your team's possessions. So, really, it doesn't matter to me if someone has more scoring moves as long as their scoring a similar number of points at a more efficient rate.

However, I can understand the "more versatile" scorer argument, too. I don't necessarily have a problem with people who believe Kobe or Carmelo are better scorers than LeBron and Durant, since they do have a bigger arsenal of scoring moves. I don't agree with it but I don't have a problem with it, either.

[aj1987]

Your stats are waaay off



10-21-2012
Career 30-point games: Jordan 562; Kobe 384; LeBron 282

Anyways of course you didn't answer any of the questions.

5 game average of 54ppg on 52% >>>>>>>> 6 games of 30 ppg on 60%
@ 28, dude. You think I'd include 17 seasons of Kobe's vs 10 of Lebron's? It's till the '07 season.

27.6 @ 50% >>>>>>>>> 25.5 @ 46%

Deal with it. Lebron scored more than Kobe at their respective ages. Lebron is a better scorer than Kobe.

Lebron has more games of scoring 30+ and 20+, while Kobe has more games of scoring under 10.

Lebron is the more efficient and consistent scorer.



However, I don't think anyone would argue that he was an actual better scorer. Kobe could just do some things scoring wise individually that LeBron can not... and if he can, he's never displayed it with any type of consistency whatsoever so I kind of doubt it exists. He's had a couple of games where he dropped like 12-20 points in a row but that's about it.

Scoring in more ways does not make a player A better than B, when A is averaging fewer points than B. It just makes him a more diverse scorer.
Lebron is a better scorer, 'cause he averages more than Kobe on better efficiency.

[TheGreatDeraj]

anyone posted this yet? I'll take the man with the headband.

http://nbanewssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/a0cf0f1ffd84b82bf342377f86272486_large.png

That's what's wrong with the new generation of fans. They only look at things on the surface level. And their crazed obsession with statistics.

Statistics are nice, but must dig deeper and look at the context.

I'll play you're game for a minute though just to prove a point.

At age 28 Lebron played 36327 minutes.
At age 28 Kobe played 33464 minutes.

Difference of 2863 minutes. Assuming they play 36 minutes a night that is an 80 game difference. I think that may have something for the statistical differences.

When Lebron came into the league he was instantly the best player and go to lplayer on his team. The next best players were Big Z, a second year Carlos Boozer and Ricky Davis.

Kobe haters love to bring up Shaq to say Kobe doesn't deserve credit for 3 championships, but now they are going to post picture of statistical totals and ignore Shaq's presence and his effects on Kobe's statistical totals?

Kobe and Lebron's roles on their respective teams were vastly different until they were 28.

Now, Imagine if Lebron was drafted in 1996 with Shaq and had Kobe's teammates until he was 28. I'd imagine not only would Lebron's statistics be different, but his style of play would be vastly different. I'd bet he would have 0 MVPs as well.

But, MVPs are rather meaningless anyways as they are voted on members of the media by strange criteria. If the award was a best player in the league voted on by coaches then it would mean a lot more imo.

The most important statistic on that picture favors Kobe and that's championships 3 @ 28 and he wasn't satisfied with that. He made it a mission to prove he could not only do it without Shaq but to win more titles than Shaq too.

Let's see how Lebron deals with a rebuild when the current Heat runs end, whether it's this year or next. Hopefully his next titles will mean more than the two he has now.

His only titles are when he took advantage of a young team with an average head coach with the Thunder and then getting saved from a sure finals series loss by Ray Allen where Lebron shot 1-4 with 2TOs in the final minutes.

Lebron was 8-46 for 17.39% on shots 10+ feet from the rim against the Thunder(According to HOOPDATA). Coach Brooks must have had his head up his ass because everyone watching could see Lebron couldn't hit a jumper.

Coach Pop knew this and that's why you saw the defense we saw in the finals last year. We all saw how Lebron refused to shoot to the detriment of his team and cost them the title until Ray Allens magical shot.

As you can probably tell my opinion to OPs question is Kobe > LEbron

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Kobe stans trying to hold onto scoring only to be shown lebron scored more and more efficiently :D

[Nash]

Lebron is better than Kobe with 5 rings and 1 MVP, you don't think he's better than the 3 rings and 0 MVP version?

[Heavincent]

Lebron is better than Kobe with 5 rings and 1 MVP

According to who?

[Nash]

According to who?
More dominant, better production, same amount of FMVP's but more MVP's in Lebron's 4 to Kobe's 1. The ONLY thing Kobe has over Lebron is the championships but as an individual he has absolutely nothing.

[Heavincent]

More dominant, better production, same amount of FMVP's but more MVP's in Lebron's 4 to Kobe's 1. The ONLY thing Kobe has over Lebron is the championships but as an individual he has absolutely nothing.

What makes Lebron's stretch from 07-08 to 12-13 better than Kobe's stretch from 05-06 to 09-10? :confusedshrug:

[aj1987]

As you can probably tell my opinion to OPs question is Kobe > LEbron
You're so mad right now. How did you feel when Lebron won his 4th MVP, 2nd ring, and 2nd FMVP in the same season? Hope you don't do anything stupid to yourself when he wins his 3rd ring and 3rd FMVP.

All that text and still Lebron > Kobe.

[zoom17]

And Kobe hasn't?

Fact of the matter is, you can find multiple playoff series for every consensus top 10-15 player where they were bad/terrible. So using one or all of them to tear down a player makes little to no sense, since your favorite player has his own playoff failures.
:applause:

[zoom17]

anyone posted this yet? I'll take the man with the headband.

http://nbanewssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/a0cf0f1ffd84b82bf342377f86272486_large.png
:cheers: /Thread

[zoom17]

Owning the Kobetards one by one:applause:
To bad the ignore it:oldlol:

[KG215]

What makes Lebron's stretch from 07-08 to 12-13 better than Kobe's stretch from 05-06 to 09-10? :confusedshrug:


Kobe: 29.8 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.6 SPG, 0.4 BPG, 3.1 TOV, .459/.348/.847, .565 TS%, .497 eFG%, 1x MVP, 2x FMVP, 2x Champ

LeBron: 28.2 PPG, 7.7 RPG, 7.3 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.9 BPG, 3.3 TOV, .511/.344/.756, .599 TS%, .547 eFG%, 4x MVP, 2x FMVP, 2x Champ


It's really a matter of personal preference. I think LeBron reached a higher and more dominant level of play than Kobe, but not by as much as some want to make it out to be. Plus, LeBron's defense during his peak/prime stretch > Kobe's defense during his peak/prime stretch.

[funnystuff]

This is what im seeing in this thread.

Lebron apostles: Dishing out facts after facts after facts that put Kobe in the dirt.

Kobes apostle: Throwing out personal insults, stating 0 facts(because they are all in Brons favor) and otherwise just posting nonsense.

[juju151111]

Kobe: 29.8 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.6 SPG, 0.4 BPG, 3.1 TOV, .459/.348/.847, .565 TS%, .497 eFG%, 1x MVP, 2x FMVP, 2x Champ

LeBron: 28.2 PPG, 7.7 RPG, 7.3 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.9 BPG, 3.3 TOV, .511/.344/.756, .599 TS%, .547 eFG%, 4x MVP, 2x FMVP, 2x Champ


It's really a matter of personal preference. I think LeBron reached a higher and more dominant level of play than Kobe, but not by as much as some want to make it out to be. Plus, LeBron's defense during his peak/prime stretch > Kobe's defense during his peak/prime stretch.
Lmao another victim you destroyed. Do you do this daily.

[TheGreatDeraj]

You're so mad right now. How did you feel when Lebron won his 4th MVP, 2nd ring, and 2nd FMVP in the same season? Hope you don't do anything stupid to yourself when he wins his 3rd ring and 3rd FMVP.

All that text and still Lebron > Kobe.

So you couldn't refute anything I've said gotcha. I'm not mad at all I think Lebron is a great player just not better than Kobe for the career or at age 28.

If Lebron improved a few things he could be better than Kobe and better than anyone ever. He is one of the most physically dominating players of all time but lacks the fundamentals in certain aspects of the game and the killer instinct that he needs to get to the GOAT level.

I would love to see Lebron improve and be the best ever. What kinda basketball fan doesn't want to see the best?

As for it being a lot of text then I just feel bad for you because you are obviously uneducated if you think that was a long read.

[funnystuff]

So you couldn't refute anything I've said gotcha. I'm not mad at all I think Lebron is a great player just not better than Kobe for the career or at age 28.

If Lebron improved a few things he could be better than Kobe and better than anyone ever. He is one of the most physically dominating players of all time but lacks the fundamentals in certain aspects of the game and the killer instinct that he needs to get to the GOAT level.

I would love to see Lebron improve and be the best ever. What kinda basketball fan doesn't want to see the best?

As for it being a lot of text then I just feel bad for you because you are obviously uneducated if you think that was a long read.
http://nbanewssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/a0cf0f1ffd84b82bf342377f86272486_large.pnghttp://nbanewssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/a0cf0f1ffd84b82bf342377f86272486_large.png

You are so delusional kiddo.

[aj1987]

So you couldn't refute anything I've said gotcha.
Refute what?
Lebron @ 28 - 27.6 PPG @ 49% and 20.1 FGA's
Kobe @ 28 - 24.6 PPG @ 45.3% and 18.8 FGA's

Kobe and Lebron @ 28 per 36 minutes:
Lebron 25.0 PPG @ 49% and 18.3 FGA's
Kobe 24.6 PPG @ 45.3% and 18.7 FGA

There you go. Even with adjusted stats, Lebron's a better scorer than Kobe. Emphasis on scorer. As a player, there's no comparison at all. Lebron without a doubt.

Even with Shaq, the per 36 shows that Kobe took more shots than Lebron and scored fewer points than him. Also, shouldn't having a prime Shaq mean that there's less defensive pressure on Kobe? Especially when teams are double and triple-teaming Shaq. Why does he shoot at 45%? If he's such a good scorer, then he MUST know what shots to take and what not to, right?

The rest of your post is just hypotheticals, which I'm not going to bother with.

As for the Thunder and Ray Allen comments, remember the '04 Finals, during which Kobe literally shot his team out of games? How about the 6-24 Game 7 against the Celtics in which Artest's 3 and Gasol saved the team?

Yeah, even Kobe had shitty games/series.



As for it being a lot of text then I just feel bad for you because you are obviously uneducated if you think that was a long read.
:roll: @ you thinking I'm uneducated.

Still, as a scorer, Lebron > Kobe. As an overall player, Lebron > Kobe.

[zoom17]

http://nbanewssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/a0cf0f1ffd84b82bf342377f86272486_large.png

[branslowski]

Reads "LeBron>>> Kobe as a scorer"

Goes back and watches Spurs dare LeBron to shoot open Jumpers.

Continues to laugh at the dumbest statements I've seen in my life.:oldlol:

[zoom17]

Reads "LeBron>>> Kobe as a scorer"

Goes back and watches Spurs dare LeBron to shoot open Jumpers.

Continues to laugh at the dumbest statements I've seen in my life.:oldlol:

http://nbanewssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/a0cf0f1ffd84b82bf342377f86272486_large.png

[funnystuff]

Reads "LeBron>>> Kobe as a scorer"

Goes back and watches Spurs dare LeBron to shoot open Jumpers.

Continues to laugh at the dumbest statements I've seen in my life.:oldlol:
:roll: :roll: :roll:


branslowski thinks the only way to score is jumpshots. :roll:

[juju151111]

Reads "LeBron>>> Kobe as a scorer"

Goes back and watches Spurs dare LeBron to shoot open Jumpers.

Continues to laugh at the dumbest statements I've seen in my life.:oldlol:
What are you talking about exactly. LJ scored more on better efficiency. Who cares what the spurs did?

[KG215]

Reads "LeBron>>> Kobe as a scorer"

Goes back and watches Spurs dare LeBron to shoot open Jumpers.

Continues to laugh at the dumbest statements I've seen in my life.:oldlol:
One of these days you might actually provide some level of intelligent basketball discussion instead of just brushing off and laughing at things you disagree with.

[TheGreatDeraj]

Refute what?
Lebron @ 28 - 27.6 PPG @ 49% and 20.1 FGA's
Kobe @ 28 - 24.6 PPG @ 45.3% and 18.8 FGA's

Kobe and Lebron @ 28 per 36 minutes:
Lebron 25.0 PPG @ 49% and 18.3 FGA's
Kobe 24.6 PPG @ 45.3% and 18.7 FGA

There you go. Even with adjusted stats, Lebron's a better scorer than Kobe. Emphasis on scorer. As a player, there's no comparison at all. Lebron without a doubt.

Even with Shaq, the per 36 shows that Kobe took more shots than Lebron and scored fewer points than him. Also, shouldn't having a prime Shaq mean that there's less defensive pressure on Kobe? Especially when teams are double and triple-teaming Shaq. Why does he shoot at 45%? If he's such a good scorer, then he MUST know what shots to take and what not to, right?

The rest of your post is just hypotheticals, which I'm not going to bother with.

As for the Thunder and Ray Allen comments, remember the '04 Finals, during which Kobe literally shot his team out of games? How about the 6-24 Game 7 against the Celtics in which Artest's 3 and Gasol saved the team?

Yeah, even Kobe had shitty games/series.



:roll: @ you thinking I'm uneducated.

Still, as a scorer, Lebron > Kobe. As an overall player, Lebron > Kobe.


I guess you really are uneducated because you did not understand a single thing I typed.

Those stats you typed out had nothing to do with my post. I was responding to career totals up for players at age 28 and you post single season per game averages from when they were 28. You must have dyslexia.

As for less defensive pressure because of Shaq? Sure, yes Kobe got tons of great looks because of shaq just like shaq did from Kobe.

However, most of the time the defense just helped off of the role players like Shaw, Horry, fox, harper, George etc.

Kobe has a lower fg% because he takes more jumpshots and because he takes harder shots. Why? Because, firstly, he is the superior jump shooter. Also, because he plays primarily with post players like Shaq, Gasol, Bynum and Dwight which means there is less space to drive in.

Kobe also takes more jumpers because when the shot clock is winding down and the defense has shut down the offense Kobe takes on the responsibility of taking those difficult shots to salvage the possession.

Lebron normally passes those up.

Because Kobe plays with big guys he takes jumpers when his bigs are in rebounding position which often leads to Kobe Assists (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8719297/how-kobe-bryant-missed-shots-translate-new-nba-statistic-kobe-assist) which are not displayed in traditional statistics but are often even better at getting a teammate an open look than a traditional assist.

Lebron has always played with more shooters on the perimeter and his bigs whether it's big Z or Bosh stretch the floor rather than post up. This allows Lebron more drive and kick opportunities hence his higher fg% and assists.

Kobe didn't shoot his team out of the 2004 finals that is a fallacy. Malone was trying to play on a tore MCL and he re injured it in the finals. The game after the injury the Lakers lost 88-68, they were struggling to find ways to score against arguably the GOAT defense without their 3rd option Malone.

Malone tried to continue play but was ineffective and could only play 20 minutes a instead of the 40 the Lakers needed him to play. He only scored 7 points the rest of the series and He didn't even play in game 5 because it got so bad.

Payton, George, Fisher, Fox, Medvedenko and Walton were not exactly scorers or even shooters to stretch the floor for Kobe and Shaq.

[longtime lurker]

What are you talking about exactly. LJ scored more on better efficiency. Who cares what the spurs did?

SMH. When will people learn that efficiency does not equal better scorer.

[zoom17]

SMH. When will people learn that efficiency does not equal better scorer.

Yeah it means the more smarter scorer Lebron>Kobe:cheers:

[funnystuff]

SMH. When will people learn that efficiency does not equal better scorer.
So holding the "Most missed shots in NBA history" title equals better scorer??? :confusedshrug:

[avonbarksdale]

kobe 5/7 lebron 2/4. are stats really that important? intangibles such as work ethic, loyalty etc come into play

what if kobe at say 26 had teamed up with tmac and dirk or something? youre telling me he couldnt have won 2 rings/fmvp too?

if lebron had never went to miami and didnt win rings everyone would be saying kobe had 3 rings lebron had 0!!! even if lebron had better stats

just bc lebron cheated joining d wade and bosh everyone is now saying hes so much better, but if he hadnt won those rings this thread would be entirely different

[juju151111]

SMH. When will people learn that efficiency does not equal better scorer.
He also averages more too. So I can avg 36ppg on 37% and you will consider me a great scorer.

[zoom17]

kobe 5/7 lebron 2/4. are stats really that important? intangibles such as work ethic, loyalty etc come into play

what if kobe at say 26 had teamed up with tmac and dirk or something? youre telling me he couldnt have won 2 rings/fmvp too?

if lebron had never went to miami and didnt win rings everyone would be saying kobe had 3 rings lebron had 0!!! even if lebron had better stats

just bc lebron cheated joining d wade and bosh everyone is now saying hes so much better, but if he hadnt won those rings this thread would be entirely different

http://nbanewssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/a0cf0f1ffd84b82bf342377f86272486_large.png

[gts]

http://nbanewssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/a0cf0f1ffd84b82bf342377f86272486_large.png


Dumbest thing I've ever seen

Are you a troll? Or are you completely unable to look at stats within the context of a players career? I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and go with the later and hope you learn a little something about the game of basketball enough as you reach puberty to be able to engage in real basketball discussion someday.

[funnystuff]

http://nbanewssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/a0cf0f1ffd84b82bf342377f86272486_large.png
This man gets it! :cheers:

I will be posting that picture everywhere until Kobe stans finally stop trolling.

Everyone outside of California understands that Lebron > Kobe, now is the time for the Californians to accept that.

[asdf1990]

kobe 5/7 lebron 2/4. are stats really that important? intangibles such as work ethic, loyalty etc come into play

what if kobe at say 26 had teamed up with tmac and dirk or something? youre telling me he couldnt have won 2 rings/fmvp too?

if lebron had never went to miami and didnt win rings everyone would be saying kobe had 3 rings lebron had 0!!! even if lebron had better stats

just bc lebron cheated joining d wade and bosh everyone is now saying hes so much better, but if he hadnt won those rings this thread would be entirely different

work ethic? do you think lebron just wakes up throws on his jersey and drops 27/7/7 on 56% fg without working on his game?

loyalty, the same guy who drove shaq out of LA so he could get his glory, than demanded a trade after he realized how hard it was when shaq wasn't there to carry him anymore?

what if the best player kobe got for the first 7 years as a starter was mo williams would kobe even be relevant right now?

[zoom17]

Dumbest thing I've ever seen

Are you a troll? Or are you completely unable to look at stats within the context of a players career? I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and go with the later and hope you learn a little something about the game of basketball enough as you reach puberty to be able to engage in real basketball discussion someday.

:roll: :roll: :roll: Someone is mad

http://nbanewssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/a0cf0f1ffd84b82bf342377f86272486_large.png

[The-Legend-24]

This topic has been beat to death and yet, it still gets 100+ replies. :oldlol:

[SilkkTheShocker]

People really need to get over the fact Lebron is a better player thank Kobe ever was.

[NuggetsFan]

LeBron.

I don't care what statistics say Kobe was a better scorer tho. More versatile and had one of the most dominant "hot hands" of All-Time. Might be the only aspect of his game that isn't overrated. Everything else goes to LeBron tho. I'd rather have him as a rebounder, defender, passer, teammate etc. and he's not Magic Johnson. LeBron averages 25+ a game. He's efficient and capable of scoring alot, Kobe IMO just keeps defenses more honest and is capable of going off more.

People need to get over it. I could care less about both of them but LeBron is the choice here. People can poke fun about him choking, which is true. He's incredibly passive for his talent level and that Dallas series was downright hilarious to watch but Kobe's need to be the hero can kill your team just as quick. For everybody big moment he's had, there's a moment where he shot his team outta the game. Just check the '04 Pistons series, was just as brutal to watch.

[funnystuff]

LeBron.

I don't care what statistics say Kobe was a better scorer tho. More versatile and had one of the most dominant "hot hands" of All-Time. Might be the only aspect of his game that isn't overrated. Everything else goes to LeBron tho. I'd rather have him as a rebounder, defender, passer, teammate etc. and he's not Magic Johnson. LeBron averages 25+ a game. He's efficient and capable of scoring alot, Kobe IMO just keeps defenses more honest and is capable of going off more.

People need to get over it. I could care less about both of them but LeBron is the choice here. People can poke fun about him choking, which is true. He's incredibly passive for his talent level and that Dallas series was downright hilarious to watch but Kobe's need to be the hero can kill your team just as quick. For everybody big moment he's had, there's a moment where he shot his team outta the game. Just check the '04 Pistons series, was just as brutal to watch.
No such thing friend. :cheers:

[branslowski]

One of these days you might actually provide some level of intelligent basketball discussion instead of just brushing off and laughing at things you disagree with.

I ingage in debates when It's worth it...We both know this is bullshit....No one in their right mind would ever say LeBron is a better scorer of the ball than Kobe ever was...Mr. Durant fan whos in every Kobe thread...Really dude....Just the other day you even posted Kobe was the better scorer, u just fallen lower and lower to troll scum bruh...."LeBron is a better scorer than Kobe" n!gga please.

[KG215]

I ingage in debates when It's worth it...We both know this is bullshit....No one in their right mind would ever say LeBron is a better scorer of the ball than Kobe ever was...Mr. Durant fan whos in every Kobe thread...Really dude....Just the other day you even posted Kobe was the better scorer, u just fallen lower and lower to troll scum bruh...."LeBron is a better scorer than Kobe" n!gga please.
Uhhh...what? Pretty sure I didn't. This is probably like the other day when you accused me of saying Durant's a top 5 perimeter player of all-time when that wasn't true, either.

I understand why people think Kobe is a better scorer, and I don't have a problem with those that do. I've always said "better scorer" is subjective. Some people prefer the more versatile scorer capable who's more prone to big scoring outbursts; and others prefer the more efficient scorer who scores at a similar volume but has a smaller scoring arsenal.

The fact that you laugh at the notion of LeBron being a better scorer, and call it "bullshit", just shows how biased you are, because, at the very least, it's debatable. Yet, you do what you always do when you think something isn't true regarding Kobe: you laugh it off like it's the stupidest thing you've ever heard, and pretend like something so ignorant is beneath you and it's not worth even a semi-intelligent reply....which you're not even capable of doing.

[longtime lurker]

He also averages more too. So I can avg 36ppg on 37% and you will consider me a great scorer.

Way to exaggerate. There are a lot of different ways to look at scoring than just efficiency. Efficiency only tells you who is more efficient that's it. There are other context that you can look at to judge scoring. If you're just going to look at raw stats then you might as well say that Dwight Howard is a better scorer because he shoots a higher FG%.

[branslowski]

Uhhh...what? Pretty sure I didn't. This is probably like the other day when you accused me of saying Durant's a top 5 perimeter player of all-time when that wasn't true, either.

I understand why people think Kobe is a better scorer, and I don't have a problem with those that do. I've always said "better scorer" is subjective. Some people prefer the more versatile scorer capable who's more prone to big scoring outbursts; and others prefer the more efficient scorer who scores at a similar volume but has a smaller scoring arsenal.

The fact that you laugh at the notion of LeBron being a better scorer, and call it "bullshit", just shows how biased you are, because, at the very least, it's debatable. Yet, you do what you always do when you think something isn't true regarding Kobe: you laugh it off like it's the stupidest thing you've ever heard, and pretend like something so ignorant is beneath you and it's not worth even a semi-intelligent reply....which you're not even capable of doing.

Meh, you need to do more research on me...I've owned Multiple Kobe haters over the year...I've engaged in multiple discussions in which I've delivered thread ending post....No Suprise you don't know this about me, just as you were shocked that my rep bars were maxed with points at 4,000....You just lost bruh....And you talk about Bias but here you are a Durant fan in every singal Kobe related thread trying to passively bash or discredit him..Sorry bruh, we don't believe in ur bullshit.

Anyway, I've said countless time that currently LeBron.is the best in the league, has been for the past 3 seasons....It's factual in this retarded ISH world and most importantly in the media/casual/real world.....Bron may be the GOAT one day, and as a black man and a guy whos watched LeBron from Highschool til now I'd be pretty damn proud of that.

But I also watched Kobe. And there's no way shape or form that anyone with a brain in the media/casual/real world would even attempt to say some bullshit out they mouth like "LeBron is a better scorer than Kobe"...Really? Mr "Let him shoot open shots cause we don't want him to dunk like Shawn Kemp" Really? Mr. Shut down by invisible defenders and Boris Diaw? You think Bron would ever in his life drop 4 straight 50pt games? Score 81? Display an amazing scoring show for fans like Kobe?

Yawl trolling ain't yawl?....:coleman:

[zoom17]

Meh, you need to do more research on me...I've owned Multiple Kobe haters over the year...I've engaged in multiple discussions in which I've delivered thread ending post....No Suprise you don't know this about me, just as you were shocked that my rep bars were maxed with points at 4,000....You just lost bruh....And you talk about Bias but here you are a Durant fan in every singal Kobe related thread trying to passively bash or discredit him..Sorry bruh, we don't believe in ur bullshit.

Anyway, I've said countless time that currently LeBron.is the best in the league, has been for the past 3 seasons....It's factual in this retarded ISH world and most importantly in the media/casual/real world.....Bron may be the GOAT one day, and as a black man and a guy whos watched LeBron from Highschool til now I'd be pretty damn proud of that.

But I also watched Kobe. And there's no way shape or form that anyone with a brain in the media/casual/real world would even attempt to say some bullshit out they mouth like "LeBron is a better scorer than Kobe"...Really? Mr "Let him shoot open shots cause we don't want him to dunk like Shawn Kemp" Really? Mr. Shut down by invisible defenders and Boris Diaw? You think Bron would ever in his life drop 4 straight 50pt games? Score 81? Display an amazing scoring show for fans like Kobe?

Yawl trolling ain't yawl?....:coleman:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/b44a2bacaaaf840b0de8571850fe9cc3/tumblr_mpawcjFnSL1rocz98o1_500.gif

[Darius]

Lmao ISH is truly full of mental midgets.

Lebron is better now than Kobe ever was. It's not even debatable by anyone with an ounce of sense.

I hope the people typing this nonsense aren't grown men.

[zoom17]

Lmao ISH is truly full of mental midgets.

Lebron is better now than Kobe ever was. It's not even debatable by anyone with an ounce of sense.

I hope the people typing this nonsense aren't grown men.
:cheers:

[aj1987]

I guess you really are uneducated because you did not understand a single thing I typed.

Those stats you typed out had nothing to do with my post. I was responding to career totals up for players at age 28 and you post single season per game averages from when they were 28. You must have dyslexia.
My point was that even if you don't agree with the totals, the averages show that Lebron is a better scorer than Kobe. Even if you take out the "Shaq factor" by using per 36, Lebron is a better scorer. Is that too hard to understand? :facepalm


just like shaq did from Kobe.
:roll:


Kobe has a lower fg% because he takes more jumpshots and because he takes harder shots. Why? Because, firstly, he is the superior jump shooter. Also, because he plays primarily with post players like Shaq, Gasol, Bynum and Dwight which means there is less space to drive in.
That's a horseshit excuse. Wade played with Shaq and had better shooting years than Kobe did. Magic and Kareem. West and Chamberlain. The list could go on and on. Kobe plays hero ball. He takes piss poor shots a lot.


Kobe also takes more jumpers because when the shot clock is winding down and the defense has shut down the offense Kobe takes on the responsibility of taking those difficult shots to salvage the possession.
That MIGHT account to around 0.5% of his efficiency and I think I'm being pretty generous here.


Because Kobe plays with big guys he takes jumpers when his bigs are in rebounding position which often leads to Kobe Assists (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8719297/how-kobe-bryant-missed-shots-translate-new-nba-statistic-kobe-assist) which are not displayed in traditional statistics but are often even better at getting a teammate an open look than a traditional assist.
Seriously? Are you retarded? WOW! I guess guys who play with bigs should keep jacking up shots all day long.

I guess people have to find some reason to justify Kobe earning the record of missing most shots in the history of NBA.


Lebron has always played with more shooters on the perimeter and his bigs whether it's big Z or Bosh stretch the floor rather than post up. This allows Lebron more drive and kick opportunities hence his higher fg% and assists.
Kobe played with the MDE and a exceptionally skilled post player in Gasol. If Kobe stopped jacking up shots for a minute, he would've realized that he could pass the ball to people who could score more efficiently, instead of taking it over 2-3 defenders. Oh wait, I forgot about Kobe assists. Nevemind.


Kobe didn't shoot his team out of the 2004 finals that is a fallacy. Malone was trying to play on a tore MCL and he re injured it in the finals. The game after the injury the Lakers lost 88-68, they were struggling to find ways to score against arguably the GOAT defense without their 3rd option Malone.

Malone tried to continue play but was ineffective and could only play 20 minutes a instead of the 40 the Lakers needed him to play. He only scored 7 points the rest of the series and He didn't even play in game 5 because it got so bad.
You're telling me that Kobe taking 23 shots to score 23 points, while Shaq was scoring 27 on 17, didn't have anything to do with the loss?

Game 1: Kobe - 25 on 27 shots; Shaq 34 on 16 shots. Lakers lost by 12.
Game 3: Pistons shit on the Lakers. 20 point blowout. Kobe - 11 on 13.
Game 4: Kobe - 20 on 25 shots; Shaq - 36 on 21 shots. Lakers lost by 8.
Game 5: Kobe 24 on 21 shots; Shaq - 20 on 13 shots. Lakers lost by 1

Kobe didn't shoot the Lakers out of a championship? Oh wait. I guess Shaq wasn't in rebounding position. Stupid of me. Shaq should've rebounded those misses. My bad. It was all on Shaq.

Once again, Lebron > Kobe as a scorer and an overall player. The stats prove it and the hardware proves it.
4 x MVP
2 x Champion
2 x FMVP
All that at age 28.

[Cali Syndicate]

I'd say lebron if anything. Kobe's an incredible talent though and is without a doubt a championship caliber player. Either way, you're gonna win. Kobe's a more intriguing player though. He was still at his age balling elite. Kinda damn amazing if you ask me. Lebrons in his prime right now though. Respect the game.

[aj1987]

I'd say lebron if anything. Kobe's an incredible talent though and is without a doubt a championship caliber player. Either way, you're gonna win. Kobe's a more intriguing player though. He was still at his age balling elite. Kinda damn amazing if you ask me. Lebrons in his prime right now though. Respect the game.
This.

I don't see why people get worked up when someone says that Lebron is better than Kobe or whatever. Kobe is a top 10 GOAT and so far had a better career than Lebron.

[Cali Syndicate]

This.

I don't see why people get worked up when someone says that Lebron is better than Kobe or whatever. Kobe is a top 10 GOAT and so far had a better career than Lebron.

People get worked up cause of trolls. It's the Internet bruh, and hang enough time around them, and you see the subtle genius behind trolling and end up being one yourself. Always growing fan base, never ending story basically. Everyone has a hero.

[Bigsmoke]

the only with both RS and Finals MVP.

What the hell did Kobe do that year besides win the scoring title?

[G-Funk]

Meh, you need to do more research on me...I've owned Multiple Kobe haters over the year...I've engaged in multiple discussions in which I've delivered thread ending post....No Suprise you don't know this about me, just as you were shocked that my rep bars were maxed with points at 4,000....You just lost bruh....And you talk about Bias but here you are a Durant fan in every singal Kobe related thread trying to passively bash or discredit him..Sorry bruh, we don't believe in ur bullshit.

Anyway, I've said countless time that currently LeBron.is the best in the league, has been for the past 3 seasons....It's factual in this retarded ISH world and most importantly in the media/casual/real world.....Bron may be the GOAT one day, and as a black man and a guy whos watched LeBron from Highschool til now I'd be pretty damn proud of that.

But I also watched Kobe. And there's no way shape or form that anyone with a brain in the media/casual/real world would even attempt to say some bullshit out they mouth like "LeBron is a better scorer than Kobe"...Really? Mr "Let him shoot open shots cause we don't want him to dunk like Shawn Kemp" Really? Mr. Shut down by invisible defenders and Boris Diaw? You think Bron would ever in his life drop 4 straight 50pt games? Score 81? Display an amazing scoring show for fans like Kobe?

Yawl trolling ain't yawl?....:coleman:
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[All Net]

Close to 10 pages.. No surprises here.

[Orlando Magic]

Anyone who actually believes that LeBron is a more capable scorer than Kobe only checks boxscores.

Anyone who actually believes that Kobe at any point in his career even remotely approached the ability to positively impact their entire team and thus being just a straight up better basketball player only checks championships.

In short... watch the games.

LeBron is a way better player. Kobe is a way better scorer.

To argue against either statement is sheer ignorance.

If Kobe only played like LeBron does his field goal percentage would probably be even better than LeBron's... because he is a better scorer. He's a better shooter and he can break a man down 1 on 1 better than LeBron has ever dreamed about.

Kobe's downfall is that he's just a stupid basketball player that was/is obsessed with being Michael Jordan.

Being a great individual doesn't make you an all time great basketball player. Kobe is a great individual. LeBron is an all time great basketball player.

Give me LeBron 10 times out of 10 in reality.

In a hypothetical where I need someone to score the ball by themself with my life on the line regardless of what type of defense they're facing, give me Kobe.

LeBron > Kobe
Kobe's scoring > LeBron's scoring

Anyone who disagrees can run into traffic. GTFO.

[Fresh Kid]

KOBE by a long shot:applause:

[tmacattack33]

:oldlol:

Peak Lebron is the best we've seen since Peak Shaq.

It's already been stated and should be consensus by now.

[BuGzBuNNy]

Anyone who actually believes that LeBron is a more capable scorer than Kobe only checks boxscores.

Anyone who actually believes that Kobe at any point in his career even remotely approached the ability to positively impact their entire team and thus being just a straight up better basketball player only checks championships.

In short... watch the games.

LeBron is a way better player. Kobe is a way better scorer.

To argue against either statement is sheer ignorance.

If Kobe only played like LeBron does his field goal percentage would probably be even better than LeBron's... because he is a better scorer. He's a better shooter and he can break a man down 1 on 1 better than LeBron has ever dreamed about.

Kobe's downfall is that he's just a stupid basketball player that was/is obsessed with being Michael Jordan.

Being a great individual doesn't make you an all time great basketball player. Kobe is a great individual. LeBron is an all time great basketball player.

Give me LeBron 10 times out of 10 in reality.

In a hypothetical where I need someone to score the ball by themself with my life on the line regardless of what type of defense they're facing, give me Kobe.

LeBron > Kobe
Kobe's scoring > LeBron's scoring

Anyone who disagrees can run into traffic. GTFO.
You just coined what makes one player better than another :applause:

[TheMilkyBarKid]

KOBE by a long shot:applause:
No surprise coming from a melo fan

[HurricaneKid]

The rest of this post was already crushed but I'll take this one on.



Kobe didn't shoot his team out of the 2004 finals that is a fallacy.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2004_finals.html

Shaq was his usual dominant self. He averaged 26.6/10.8 on less than 17FGA/gm. So despite Detroit's great D they had no answer for Shaq who shot 63.1% for the series. The only reason he didn't score more is that Kobe was intent on being "The Man". So while Shaq was shooting 63.1% Kobe, and this is for the SERIES mind you, shot 38.1%. Yet Kobe REPEATEDLY shook him off, choosing to Iso instead. Despite making 60% more of his shots than Kobe made of his, Shaq actually got 29 fewer shots in the series than Kobe did.

Kobe absolutely shot them out of that series. Shaq made 10 more FGs on 29 fewer shots. But Kobe was freezing him out.

This was the most selfish basketball I have ever seen. It was more egregious than "that guy" at the park that shoots all the time. This was for the Championship and Kobe eschewed the correct basketball plays to hoist a myriad of horrific shots.

[ILLsmak]

Better overall player at 28: Kobe Bryant (when he was 28) or LeBron James (currently 28)?

stop trollin hawkfan.

-Smak

[aj1987]

The rest of this post was already crushed but I'll take this one on.



http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2004_finals.html

Shaq was his usual dominant self. He averaged 26.6/10.8 on less than 17FGA/gm. So despite Detroit's great D they had no answer for Shaq who shot 63.1% for the series. The only reason he didn't score more is that Kobe was intent on being "The Man". So while Shaq was shooting 63.1% Kobe, and this is for the SERIES mind you, shot 38.1%. Yet Kobe REPEATEDLY shook him off, choosing to Iso instead. Despite making 60% more of his shots than Kobe made of his, Shaq actually got 29 fewer shots in the series than Kobe did.

Kobe absolutely shot them out of that series. Shaq made 10 more FGs on 29 fewer shots. But Kobe was freezing him out.

This was the most selfish basketball I have ever seen. It was more egregious than "that guy" at the park that shoots all the time. This was for the Championship and Kobe eschewed the correct basketball plays to hoist a myriad of horrific shots.
You don't get it bro. All those misses led to "Kobe assists". The losses are all on Shaq and Malone. Not Kobe's fault.

[zoom17]

:oldlol:

Peak Lebron is the best we've seen since Peak Shaq.

It's already been stated and should be consensus by now.
:cheers:

[2010splash]

Are you kidding me? LeBron just had a historic season at age 28. His 2013 season is probably one of the top 2-3 seasons of all-time. Kobe isn't even close.

[Element]

The rest of this post was already crushed but I'll take this one on.



http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2004_finals.html

Shaq was his usual dominant self. He averaged 26.6/10.8 on less than 17FGA/gm. So despite Detroit's great D they had no answer for Shaq who shot 63.1% for the series. The only reason he didn't score more is that Kobe was intent on being "The Man". So while Shaq was shooting 63.1% Kobe, and this is for the SERIES mind you, shot 38.1%. Yet Kobe REPEATEDLY shook him off, choosing to Iso instead. Despite making 60% more of his shots than Kobe made of his, Shaq actually got 29 fewer shots in the series than Kobe did.

Kobe absolutely shot them out of that series. Shaq made 10 more FGs on 29 fewer shots. But Kobe was freezing him out.

This was the most selfish basketball I have ever seen. It was more egregious than "that guy" at the park that shoots all the time. This was for the Championship and Kobe eschewed the correct basketball plays to hoist a myriad of horrific shots.

Bro, have you watched those finals?

Kobe holding Shaq back is the biggest myth ever. Kobe attempted a selfish 13 shots in Game 3. Shaq responded by dropping an explosive 19-point performance on 7/14 shooting.

Malone was injured, Payton inept offensively and getting burned defensively by Chauncey as well. Shaq was not double teamed during that series. I know it sounds ridiculous but it's true. The reason he put up great stats was that Ben Wallace and crew took turns playing him straight up; they didn't give him any double teams so that he could not initiate a chain of passes leading to an open shot.

The Shaq of 00-02 would have dropped 35+ ppg against that type of D, but the Pistons and everybody knew that he just wasn't capable of being that guy anymore. That's why his stats might look great, but aren't even close to reflecting his true impact. The Shaq of 00-02 would also have received consistent doubles and triples, so even if 35+ ppg isn't realistic, a smooth LA offense and 4+ apg is.

Kobe had to hoist up these shots because the second he put the ball on the floor for a drive, his man (Tayshaun) was right in front of him, with 2 other guys shading left and right and Ben Wallace waiting at the rim. Not to mention play was physical, so driving simply wasn't an option. Another reason for his "selfish chucking" was that it didn't exactly help that everyone else sucked dick offensively, too. Not only because of injuries and the Pistons D, the other players simply sucked and bricked wide open layups and threes. Feel free to look up the percentages.

I'm not saying Shaq played worse than Kobe. He clearly outplayed him. But Detroit was focusing on Kobe and rightfully so; prior to the Finals he was outplaying Shaq despite receiving more attention and in 03 he took the crown of being the best player on the team. People forget it's a miracle LAL made the Finals in the first place. With the way Karl and GP were sucking, Kobe had to go god-mode against SAS and then Fish's 0.4 shot luckily avoided a Game 7 scenario without HCA. Spurs were stacked that year.

[KyleKong]

LeBron.

http://nbanewssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/a0cf0f1ffd84b82bf342377f86272486_large.png

[Element]

LeBron's also clearly a better basketball player at age 28. It's a clear gap but not a

LeBron


Durant

type of gap

More like,

LeBron
Kobe

Durant

[aj1987]

Bro, have you watched those finals?

Kobe holding Shaq back is the biggest myth ever. Kobe attempted a selfish 13 shots in Game 3. Shaq responded by dropping an explosive 19-point performance on 7/14 shooting.

Malone was injured, Payton inept offensively and getting burned defensively by Chauncey as well. Shaq was not double teamed during that series. I know it sounds ridiculous but it's true. The reason he put up great stats was that Ben Wallace and crew took turns playing him straight up; they didn't give him any double teams so that he could not initiate a chain of passes leading to an open shot.

The Shaq of 00-02 would have dropped 35+ ppg against that type of D, but the Pistons and everybody knew that he just wasn't capable of being that guy anymore. That's why his stats might look great, but aren't even close to reflecting his true impact. The Shaq of 00-02 would also have received consistent doubles and triples, so even if 35+ ppg isn't realistic, a smooth LA offense and 4+ apg is.

Kobe had to hoist up these shots because the second he put the ball on the floor for a drive, his man (Tayshaun) was right in front of him, with 2 other guys shading left and right and Ben Wallace waiting at the rim. Not to mention play was physical, so driving simply wasn't an option. Another reason for his "selfish chucking" was that it didn't exactly help that everyone else sucked dick offensively, too. Not only because of injuries and the Pistons D, the other players simply sucked and bricked wide open layups and threes. Feel free to look up the percentages.

I'm not saying Shaq played worse than Kobe. He clearly outplayed him. But Detroit was focusing on Kobe and rightfully so; prior to the Finals he was outplaying Shaq despite receiving more attention and in 03 he took the crown of being the best player on the team. People forget it's a miracle LAL made the Finals in the first place. With the way Karl and GP were sucking, Kobe had to go god-mode against SAS and then Fish's 0.4 shot luckily avoided a Game 7 scenario without HCA. Spurs were stacked that year.
Kobe went god mode? 26/6/5/2 on 46% against the Spurs on 22 shots.
Shaq averaged 23/14/4/2 on 63% and only 14 shots.

The fact is, Kobe tried to be "the man", during the '04 run. Shaq averaged 35+ PPG in the previous runs because he was taking between 21 and 26 shots per game. In the '04 Finals, he averaged only 14 shots per game.

Kobe was trying to win the title by playing hero ball and he failed miserably. Even Phil Jackson blamed Kobe a lot during the season.

You said Shaq wasn't doubled? Then why didn't they play an inside-out game? Shouldn't they feed the ball to the guy who's scoring at 60%+?
Game 1: Kobe - 25 on 27 shots; Shaq 34 on 16 shots. Lakers lost by 12.
Game 3: Pistons shit on the Lakers. 20 point blowout. Kobe - 11 on 13.
Game 4: Kobe - 20 on 25 shots; Shaq - 36 on 21 shots. Lakers lost by 8.
Game 5: Kobe 24 on 21 shots; Shaq - 20 on 13 shots. Lakers lost by 13.

See that? Now, can you tell who's to blame for the loss? And yes, I saw the Finals.

[hawkfan]

Close to 10 pages.. No surprises here.

This board loves having the same conversations again and again.

[TheGreatDeraj]

I guess you really are uneducated because you did not understand a single thing I typed.

Those stats you typed out had nothing to do with my post. I was responding to career totals up for players at age 28 and you post single season per game averages from when they were 28. You must have dyslexia.
My point was that even if you don't agree with the totals, the averages show that Lebron is a better scorer than Kobe. Even if you take out the "Shaq factor" by using per 36, Lebron is a better scorer. Is that too hard to understand? :facepalm

Again, you make absolutely ZERO sense. I do agree with the totals. They are facts. I disagree with the conclusion that Lebron was a superior player because his statistical totals were higher. How do you not understand this. Also, how the hell does using per 36 take out the Shaq factor? Do you know what per 36 means? Lebron is not the better scorer that is pretty much universally agreed upon besides the people who just read boxscores.

Just because a players ppg average is higher does not make him the better scorer. Statistical averages do not take into context.



just like shaq did from Kobe.
:roll:

Are you really disagreeing that Kobe got Shaq good looks?! That's a new one. The most obvious refutation to that is game 7 2000 WCF when a 21 Kobe crossed up Pippen, drew Shaqs man, and then hit Shaq for the iconic game sealing alley oop.


As someone who actually WATCHED Kobe/Shaq play together I can say with 100% certainty that Kobe got at least a basket or two for Shaq every game. In fact, one of Kobe's signature moves is the wrap around pass. It started with Shaq.



Kobe has a lower fg% because he takes more jumpshots and because he takes harder shots. Why? Because, firstly, he is the superior jump shooter. Also, because he plays primarily with post players like Shaq, Gasol, Bynum and Dwight which means there is less space to drive in.


That's a horseshit excuse. Wade played with Shaq and had better shooting years than Kobe did. Magic and Kareem. West and Chamberlain. The list could go on and on. Kobe plays hero ball. He takes piss poor shots a lot.

First of Kareem and Wilt had far superior range on their game than Shaq thus providing different spacing. Also, they were completely different eras with different sets of defensive rules.

As for Wade, him shooting a higher percentage with Shaq than Kobe has nothing to do with the point. My point was that having a post player with little range like Shaq is going to provide less floor spacing compared to the spacing of a player like Big Z or Chris Bosh. Less spacing means it's harder to score in the paint. Which means that sometimes it might be a better shot to shoot a jumper rather than go into the paint into the teeth of the defense. Especially since Kobe is a good jumpshooter. And Shaq is in the paint to have a great shot at the rebound. It might give Kobe a lower fg% but sometimes it's a better shot for the team than driving it into the teeth of the defense.



That MIGHT account to around 0.5% of his efficiency and I think I'm being pretty generous here.[/QUOTE]

Kobe takes at least one of those a game. Out of 20 shots that would be at least 5% of his shots.



Because Kobe plays with big guys he takes jumpers when his bigs are in rebounding position which often leads to Kobe Assists which are not displayed in traditional statistics but are often even better at getting a teammate an open look than a traditional assist.
Seriously? Are you retarded? WOW! I guess guys who play with bigs should keep jacking up shots all day long.

I guess people have to find some reason to justify Kobe earning the record of missing most shots in the history of NBA.

No, obviously no one should jack shots all day. Good thing Kobe doesn't. He takes about the same about of shots as Lebron. But, yes, if a superstar player can get a good shot when his bigs are in rebounding position then yea take it.

Chance of making a shot(45%) + the chance of getting the rebound gives you a better chance at scoring that possession. Did you even read the Kobe assist article? Probably not, but you should because it is a legitimate basketball strategy and you will have a better understanding of basketball afterwards :cheers:



Lebron has always played with more shooters on the perimeter and his bigs whether it's big Z or Bosh stretch the floor rather than post up. This allows Lebron more drive and kick opportunities hence his higher fg% and assists.

Kobe played with the MDE and a exceptionally skilled post player in Gasol. If Kobe stopped jacking up shots for a minute, he would've realized that he could pass the ball to people who could score more efficiently, instead of taking it over 2-3 defenders. Oh wait, I forgot about Kobe assists. Nevemind.

You act like Kobe never passes and shoots every possession. He takes about the same about of shots per game as Lebron and feeds the post quite often. Kobe very rarely takes shots over 2-3 defenders, unless he has teammates in rebounding position. Shaq, Gasol, Odom, Bynum are already good rebounders and when you add Kobe drawing 2-3 defenders that gives the Laker rebounders an even bigger advantage. No wonder Kobe's misses are rebounded at a higher rate than almost every other offensive player in the league. It's not luck it's a strategic move.



Kobe didn't shoot his team out of the 2004 finals that is a fallacy. Malone was trying to play on a tore MCL and he re injured it in the finals. The game after the injury the Lakers lost 88-68, they were struggling to find ways to score against arguably the GOAT defense without their 3rd option Malone.

Malone tried to continue play but was ineffective and could only play 20 minutes a instead of the 40 the Lakers needed him to play. He only scored 7 points the rest of the series and He didn't even play in game 5 because it got so bad.


You're telling me that Kobe taking 23 shots to score 23 points, while Shaq was scoring 27 on 17, didn't have anything to do with the loss?

Game 1: Kobe - 25 on 27 shots; Shaq 34 on 16 shots. Lakers lost by 12.
Game 3: Pistons shit on the Lakers. 20 point blowout. Kobe - 11 on 13.
Game 4: Kobe - 20 on 25 shots; Shaq - 36 on 21 shots. Lakers lost by 8.
Game 5: Kobe 24 on 21 shots; Shaq - 20 on 13 shots. Lakers lost by 1

Kobe didn't shoot the Lakers out of a championship? Oh wait. I guess Shaq wasn't in rebounding position. Stupid of me. Shaq should've rebounded those misses. My bad. It was all on Shaq.


Kobe did not have a great shooting performance in 2004. Kobe did play his part in the loss, but he was not the main cause and he did not shoot them out of that series. There were a multitude of factors that lead to the Lakers losing that series on and off the court. Kobe's sub par shooting, team chemistry problems, the Malone injury, Payton wasn't very good on offense or defense, Shaq played pretty bad defense, the bench was pretty bad that series. And let's give credit to the Pistons they were firing on all cylinders that year.

[aj1987]

Again, you make absolutely ZERO sense. I do agree with the totals. They are facts. I disagree with the conclusion that Lebron was a superior player because his statistical totals were higher. How do you not understand this.
Lebron has the better stats and better hardware at 28. Doesn't that make him the better player?



Also, how the hell does using per 36 take out the Shaq factor? Do you know what per 36 means?
My bad. Long post, so mixed up stuff while going back and forth. The per 36 shows at what clip Lebron and Kobe score, as they took almost the same number of shots.


Lebron is not the better scorer that is pretty much universally agreed upon besides the people who just read boxscores.

Just because a players ppg average is higher does not make him the better scorer. Statistical averages do not take into context.
My criteria for scoring is higher PPG and efficiency. If a player A scores more points on better efficiency than player B, then I consider player A to be a better scorer than B. I don't give a shit if player B can post up, shoot mid-range, etc. I'd take player A day, because he's more consistent and scores more than player B. The objective in basketball in to score more than the opponent. Therefore, I'm taking the person who scores more. Would would take a runner, who's slower, over Usain Bolt, just because he has a better running form?



Are you really disagreeing that Kobe got Shaq good looks?! That's a new one. The most obvious refutation to that is game 7 2000 WCF when a 21 Kobe crossed up Pippen, drew Shaqs man, and then hit Shaq for the iconic game sealing alley oop.

As someone who actually WATCHED Kobe/Shaq play together I can say with 100% certainty that Kobe got at least a basket or two for Shaq every game. In fact, one of Kobe's signature moves is the wrap around pass. It started with Shaq.
Once or twice a game? Of course. Kobe is a great player and he definitely did that, but not enough to last over a whole game.



First of Kareem and Wilt had far superior range on their game than Shaq thus providing different spacing. Also, they were completely different eras with different sets of defensive rules.
Kareem? Yeah, he did have a bit of range. Wilt? Nope. From all the videos/games that I've seen of him, he primarily operates in the post. Even Phil Jackson said that Shaq had a larger offensive arsenal, compared to Wilt. And that is including range.



As for Wade, him shooting a higher percentage with Shaq than Kobe has nothing to do with the point. My point was that having a post player with little range like Shaq is going to provide less floor spacing compared to the spacing of a player like Big Z or Chris Bosh. Less spacing means it's harder to score in the paint. Which means that sometimes it might be a better shot to shoot a jumper rather than go into the paint into the teeth of the defense. Especially since Kobe is a good jumpshooter. And Shaq is in the paint to have a great shot at the rebound. It might give Kobe a lower fg% but sometimes it's a better shot for the team than driving it into the teeth of the defense.


Again, Wade had Shaq clogging up the paint, just like Kobe did, but Wade managed to be more efficient than Kobe while scoring.



Did you even read the Kobe assist article? Probably not, but you should because it is a legitimate basketball strategy and you will have a better understanding of basketball afterwards :cheers:
Yes, I did and it's still a horseshit article. Kobe takes tons of TOUGH shots, with multiple defenders on him and none of his bigs in rebounding position. I was and still am a huge Kobe fan and have watched enough of his games to know that.



You act like Kobe never passes and shoots every possession. He takes about the same about of shots per game as Lebron and feeds the post quite often.
Then how come Lebron averages points and assists than Kobe?



Kobe did not have a great shooting performance in 2004. Kobe did play his part in the loss, but he was not the main cause and he did not shoot them out of that series. There were a multitude of factors that lead to the Lakers losing that series on and off the court. Kobe's sub par shooting, team chemistry problems, the Malone injury, Payton wasn't very good on offense or defense, Shaq played pretty bad defense, the bench was pretty bad that series. And let's give credit to the Pistons they were firing on all cylinders that year.

You need to re-watch that series bro.

Anyways, this topic is going nowhere. Lets just agree to disagree.