Will we ever see another Wilt?

[poido123]

A guy who puts up the stats that he did.

Sure he was dominant as a player too, but I'm more referring to a guy who could score 100 points in a game, or put up a 50 point, 30 rebound game with multiple blocks...

In the 1967-68 year, he put up 24 points, 24 rebounds and 8.5 assists in a year, that is insane :eek:

[Scholar]

No. Don't be ridiculous.

We've already seen another Wilt in terms of utter dominance, though. His name was Shaquille O'Neal.

[DCL]

maybe if you can imagine a muscular 8ft tall and coordinated fantasy player, he'll average 50+/ game.

keyword: fantasy

[alexd]

ofc yes
http://idata.over-blog.com/4/92/49/22/final-four-2013/Vassilis-Spanoulis.jpg
but only if he wants to come back to the NBA

[jzek]

Check the Nuggets' roster.

[CavaliersFTW]

No. Don't be ridiculous.

We've already seen another Wilt in terms of utter dominance, though. His name was Shaquille O'Neal.
Shaq wasn't as dominant as Wilt though.

[poido123]

No. Don't be ridiculous.

We've already seen another Wilt in terms of utter dominance, though. His name was Shaquille O'Neal.


Dominance yes.

As I said in my opening post, I meant stats wise :cheers:

I had a quick look at Shaq's stats, I think his best season stats wise was 23 points, 14 rebounds and 3.5 blocks and that was his rookie year :eek: Although, his more rounded stats came in his Laker years...

[pudman13]

Scoring is down overall now. The equivalent would be something like a 40 PPG, 20 RPG year, and I don't see that happening again either.

[poido123]

Check the Nuggets' roster.

Javale McGee? Who?

You might be referring to Faried, But I don't think he will ever do a 50/30 game.

[poido123]

maybe if you can imagine a muscular 8ft tall and coordinated fantasy player, he'll average 50+/ game.

keyword: fantasy

:lol

[jzek]

Javale McGee?

Yeah, McGee.

Keep in mind the reasons why Wilt was so dominant in his era:

* More athletic than everybody else (league back then was full of non-athletic white guys)
* Taller than everybody else (there were like only 2 or 3 7-footers back in the day)

McGee fits the bill. He can replicate what Wilt did if you put him in the 60s and 70s playing against 6-9 white guys who can barely jump 2 inches.

On the other hand, put Wilt in this era. AT BEST he's a 20-10 guy solely because of the lack of quality centers in today's game. Put him in the 90s era (Olajuwon, Shaq, Ewing, Robinson, etc.) and he's a 15-8 guy.

Wilt's dominance is largely based on the fact that he was so athletically and physically more gifted than his opponents.

[CavaliersFTW]

Yeah, McGee.

Keep in mind the reasons why Wilt was so dominant in his era:

* More athletic than everybody else (league back then was full of non-athletic white guys)
* Taller than everybody else (there were like only 2 or 3 7-footers back in the day)

McGee fits the bill. He can replicate what Wilt did if you put him in the 60s and 70s playing against 6-9 white guys who can barely jump 2 inches.

On the other hand, put Wilt in this era. AT BEST he's a 20-10 guy solely because of the lack of quality centers in today's game. Put him in the 90s era (Olajuwon, Shaq, Ewing, Robinson, etc.) and he's a 15-8 guy.

Wilt's dominance is largely based on the fact that he was so athletically and physically more gifted than his opponents.
Wow, I used to be a fan of Wilt but now that I learned this I'm not anymore thanks this is good to know.

[Haks]

LMAO whats so special about Wilt barely a top 10 player all time.
Better question is will we see another Lebron James?

[b1imtf]

Joel Anthony :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[Trollsmasher]

Put today's superstars into a game with the pace and (no)defense of 50s/60s and all of them will achieve those kinds of stats.

[$LakerGold]

Shaq wasn't as dominant as Wilt though.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[CavaliersFTW]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Something funny? :confusedshrug:

[Haks]

Something funny? :confusedshrug:
:applause: :applause:
GOAT Wilt Stan:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[$LakerGold]

The way I see Wilt is that he was just steps ahead of everybody in his Era. With the way how Athletic everyone is now, I really doubt he'll average the same numbers as he did back then. PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO LET GO. Face it, the game has evolved & there's a reason for it.

Shaq Or Hakeem.

[Shade8780]

maybe if you can imagine a muscular 8ft tall and coordinated fantasy player, he'll average 50+/ game.

keyword: fantasy
Sadly this is the truth. No your question, OP.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Wilt sure didn't win a lot for playing in the weakest era in NBA history. I don't even think rings are all that. But how do you let your biggest competitor beat you in championships 11-2? Russell really seemed to own his soul. And Russell in this era wouldn't even be good enough to play in the NBA. I think its safe to say Wilt just wasn't much of a winner.

[roffie]

Yeah, McGee.

Keep in mind the reasons why Wilt was so dominant in his era:

* More athletic than everybody else (league back then was full of non-athletic white guys)
* Taller than everybody else (there were like only 2 or 3 7-footers back in the day)

McGee fits the bill. He can replicate what Wilt did if you put him in the 60s and 70s playing against 6-9 white guys who can barely jump 2 inches.

On the other hand, put Wilt in this era. AT BEST he's a 20-10 guy solely because of the lack of quality centers in today's game. Put him in the 90s era (Olajuwon, Shaq, Ewing, Robinson, etc.) and he's a 15-8 guy.

Wilt's dominance is largely based on the fact that he was so athletically and physically more gifted than his opponents.

pretty much this..

no ones ever gona score 100 points in a game or avg 40 points a season

just not possible with how the league has developed into

this is a dumb topic..

[Psileas]

Yeah, McGee.

Keep in mind the reasons why Wilt was so dominant in his era:

* More athletic than everybody else (league back then was full of non-athletic white guys)
* Taller than everybody else (there were like only 2 or 3 7-footers back in the day)

McGee fits the bill. He can replicate what Wilt did if you put him in the 60s and 70s playing against 6-9 white guys who can barely jump 2 inches.

On the other hand, put Wilt in this era. AT BEST he's a 20-10 guy solely because of the lack of quality centers in today's game. Put him in the 90s era (Olajuwon, Shaq, Ewing, Robinson, etc.) and he's a 15-8 guy.

Wilt's dominance is largely based on the fact that he was so athletically and physically more gifted than his opponents.

That's why I love seeing Jlauber's walls of text posted time and time again and basically destroying threads. Because garbage like this never ceases.
15/8 in the 90's he says. :oldlol: Danny Schayes was exactly what you were bashing earlier (a white guy who could jump 2 inches) and he averaged close to 10/7 in less than a half and close to 11/7 in 27 mins in the "holy 90's". Kevin Duckworth averaged 18/8 in 34 mins playing against many of the same centers.
I can only imagine Wilt's coach in the 90's saying to him "watch out, Wilt, Danny Schayes is coming for your soul tonight! :lol Wilt would probably give him 50+ if this was a real scenario (and 60+ if they played in the 60's and Wilt didn't rest).

[Psileas]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Why laugh, the adjective is "dominant", not "dominate". I'd expect people to have learned this. :confusedshrug:

[CavaliersFTW]

The way I see Wilt is that he was just steps ahead of everybody in his Era. With the way how Athletic everyone is now, I really doubt he'll average the same numbers as he did back then. PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO LET GO. Face it, the game has evolved & there's a reason for it.

Shaq Or Hakeem.
Right, EVERY center in the league today is equipped with a gifted basketball mind, a hyper competitive drive, stands 7-1 w/o shoes, is equipped with a 7-8 wingspan, and has conditioned themselves with track and field athleticism and bodybuilder strength. Wilt had those tools and it made him only good for his time. Silly me :hammerhead:

Wilt would be 6-7 Joel Anthony today, he'd actually shrink and get dumber and less athletic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E51h4JsOa0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT5VfVMo1r0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwvdsi6gLl8

[poido123]

Yeah, McGee.

Keep in mind the reasons why Wilt was so dominant in his era:

* More athletic than everybody else (league back then was full of non-athletic white guys)
* Taller than everybody else (there were like only 2 or 3 7-footers back in the day)

McGee fits the bill. He can replicate what Wilt did if you put him in the 60s and 70s playing against 6-9 white guys who can barely jump 2 inches.

On the other hand, put Wilt in this era. AT BEST he's a 20-10 guy solely because of the lack of quality centers in today's game. Put him in the 90s era (Olajuwon, Shaq, Ewing, Robinson, etc.) and he's a 15-8 guy.

Wilt's dominance is largely based on the fact that he was so athletically and physically more gifted than his opponents.


I can see what you're getting at, but I am talking about a modern or future player doing it in their own era.

I will say that there will be one player that will do it in the next 30 years..

For hypothetical sake, Mcgee would find a way to fck it up if he ever got close, like he would get to 49 and 30, then brick an open dunk in the last minute :lol

[Psileas]

pretty much this..

no ones ever gona score 100 points in a game or avg 40 points a season

just not possible with how the league has developed into

this is a dumb topic..

Yeah, because it stands to reason that the notch below "Wilt's dominance" is "15/8 guy", like he wrote...


LMAO whats so special about Wilt barely a top 10 player all time.
Better question is will we see another Lebron James?

Even if Wilt was only a top-10 player of all-time (he's obviously better), you're seriously asking what's special with a top-10 player of all-time?
Yeah, what's so special with a player greater than 99.5%+ of all players in NBA history...? :rolleyes:

[poido123]

pretty much this..

no ones ever gona score 100 points in a game or avg 40 points a season

just not possible with how the league has developed into

this is a dumb topic..


I'm fine if you don't like the topic, but I tried to create one that was kind of original.

I just think we have had enough of Jordan vs Lebron vs Kobe threads for a while...

[Marchesk]

LMAO whats so special about Wilt barely a top 10 player all time.
Better question is will we see another Lebron James?

What has Lebron done that Wilt didn't do? Or Magic or Oscar or Bird. On the other hand, there's lots of things Lebron hasn't done that Wilt has.

[Marchesk]

nd Russell in this era wouldn't even be good enough to play in the NBA.

That's horseshit. Are you telling me Russell wouldn't be a great defender, rebounder, and competitor in this era? Based on what? That he was 6'10"? That he was athletic like Wilt was? That he won at every level?

[Haks]

What has Lebron done that Wilt didn't do? Or Magic or Oscar or Bird. On the other hand, there's lots of things Lebron hasn't done that Wilt has.
Lebron is better than Wilt Chambarlain in every facet of the game other than rebounding.
In his prime Wilt would be competing with KLOVE for rebounding title in this era but other than that he would be quite irrelevant

[Marchesk]

The way I see Wilt is that he was just steps ahead of everybody in his Era. With the way how Athletic everyone is now, I really doubt he'll average the same numbers as he did back then. PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO LET GO. Face it, the game has evolved & there's a reason for it.

Shaq Or Hakeem.

Shaq and Hakeem aren't in the league anymore. Why does everyone think athleticism is the same thing as skill. Is Nash super athletic? What about Dirk? Pierce in his 30s? Garnett? Athleticism is overrated. There are tons of athletic dudes who either don't make the pros or ride the pine because they don't have the skill. Skill matters. Athleticism is nice to have, but it doesn't make you a good basketball player.

Anyway, Wilt was plenty athletic, and the reason he wouldn't average those numbers now is because the style of the game has changed, not because of super athletes. Really, is Lebron supposed to be keeping Wilt from scoring? Like he kept Hibbert from scoring? Lebron can't guard a legit 5. (Or a legit 4 for any length of time).

You need legit bigs with good defense to do that. What athletic big men are you using today to slow Wilt down? You can argue for more advanced defensive tactics, and strategies to hack or deny Wilt the ball. But it won't be because of athleticism.

[b1imtf]

Something funny? :confusedshrug:
Wilt's Finals stats

[pauk]

A guy who puts up the stats he did? Only if the league once again averages up to ~150 possessions a game, compared to todays ~90.... i seriously doubt that will happen.... i made a thread a time ago which might interest you on this topic: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294854

Will we see another Wilt? Yes, there has been similar Centers or perhaps even better... stats dont show it, but if you take a look at the thread above you will see why that is and how well other greats from modern era would do with Wilt's pace/poss. per game....

[Marchesk]

Lebron is better than Wilt Chambarlain in every facet of the game other than rebounding.
In his prime Wilt would be competing with KLOVE for rebounding title in this era but other than that he would be quite irrelevant

Lebron is better at rim protecting? :lol

What makes you think Lebron is a better scorer? I'll give you passing because Lebron plays point-forward. But it's not like Wilt didn't have seasons where he had assist totals similar to Lebron's.

[poido123]

A guy who puts up the stats he did? Only if the league once again averages ~150 possessions a game, compared to todays ~90....

Will we see another Wilt? Yes, there has been similar players or even better...


Not to be a stickler, but I am purely referring to stats. There's a reason why I didn't bring dominance into it, because it would start a Lebron vs Jordan vs Wilt battle etc.

It's not out of the question to think that Wilt could be very dominant stat wise in today's league with the lack of good centres.

Something like 25 points, 22 rebounds and 4 blocks is about right for him, depending on his role in the team.

[Marchesk]

The better question to ask is not will we see someone put up those kind of numbers again, because it would require a faster pace than has been played since that era.

The question to ask is will we ever see player who does the following:

Leads the league in scoring 7 times. Leads it in rebounding 11 times. Leads it in FG percentage 9 times. Is the assist leader once. Is a league leader in blocks the entire time (with one or two others - Russell and Thurmond).

Nobody else in history - not Oscar, not Mike, not Lebron - have led the league in that many categories. Now that is statistical dominance.

[BoutPractice]

Interesting question, not necessarily in the stats sense, but could any player basically "break" the game of basketball in this era? Could any player be "too good for the game"? Shaq came close from 00 to 02, so I don't think it's impossible. Shaq and Jordan were two players that sometimes had you thinking they needed to be put in another, superior league than the NBA... only that league didn't exist.

[senelcoolidge]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wilt's skill set makes Shaq blush. Wilt was much more skilled on top of that he was really tall, big, athletic, and strong. Wilt actually pride himself on his defense and rebounding. That makes him more dominant than Shaq.

[fpliii]

A guy who puts up the stats he did? Only if the league once again averages up to ~150 possessions a game, compared to todays ~90.... i seriously doubt that will happen.... i made a thread a time ago which might interest you on this topic: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294854

Will we see another Wilt? Yes, there has been similar Centers or perhaps even better... stats dont show it, but if you take a look at the thread above you will see why that is and how well other greats from modern era would do with Wilt's pace/poss. per game....

Serious question pauk: From where did you get the 150 possessions a game estimate? I've seen you cite it numerous times, but you've never provided calculations or a source. There have been three attempts at estimating pace in the basketball statistics community:

ElGee (6 >= 130, highest 135.9): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0At9OxyY2Zhw6dE5jQnJyOG50ODNCZ0hpZFZpaGhnRW c&type=view&gid=0&f=true&colid0=2&filterstr0=NBA&sortcolid=18&sortasc=false&rowsperpage=25

basketball-reference.com (5 >= 130, highest 133.3): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0At9OxyY2Zhw6dE5jQnJyOG50ODNCZ0hpZFZpaGhnRW c&type=view&gid=1&f=true&colid0=2&filterstr0=NBA&sortcolid=19&sortasc=false&rowsperpage=25

Dean Oliver (3>= 130, highest 132.9): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0At9OxyY2Zhw6dE5jQnJyOG50ODNCZ0hpZFZpaGhnRW c&type=view&gid=2&f=true&colid0=2&filterstr0=NBA&sortcolid=18&sortasc=false&rowsperpage=25

Now I don't care about Wilt, but I've seen you casually throw this 150 number around enough that I had to intervene. If you have calculations/a valid source then please provide it, otherwise stop spreading misinformation, and edit that post to say 130 from now on (I say from now on because I've seen that exact post from you more than a half dozen times). Not everybody will put the work in to investigate, and might take that post as fact.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://i.minus.com/iHXWVpqaZYXb2.gif

[Deuce Bigalow]

We have already seen two players better - Kareem and Shaq
Also one that is comparable in Hakeem who won the same amount of rings

[Vienceslav]

We saw Shaq who was pretty damn close in terms of size and athletic ability.
If there will ever be a rookie with a similar physical makeup ever again, I'd say probably yes, the precedent is set(it just might not be anytime soon).
Btw Cavsfan if you are reading this, have you seen the Sportscience poll that rated Bo Jackson the greatest athlete of all time?
If so, what are your thoughts about it?

[Marchesk]

We have already seen two players better - Kareem and Shaq
Also one that is comparable in Hakeem who won the same amount of rings

Maybe - it's debatable. The question is whether we'll ever see anyone either put up those kind of numbers again, or lead the league in that many categories.

The leading the league in different categories is more telling, because the game changes over time. So you can ask when was the last time someone led the league in scoring, rebounding and shot blocks in the same season like Wilt did for several seasons (here I am assuming he would have beat Russell out some of the time for blocked shots)? Or rebounding, shot blocking and FG%?

It would be the finals version of Shaq during the 3-peat over multiple seasons. So Shaq could have come close to what Wilt did in that sense, if he had been more motivated.

I would still consider Wilt a better shot blocker and rebounder than peak Shaq. But peak finals Shaq is in the ball park on those categories.

[CavaliersFTW]

We have already seen two players better - Kareem and Shaq
Also one that is comparable in Hakeem who won the same amount of rings
What exactly made Kareem and Shaq 'better' than Wilt? Their rebounding? Defense? Scoring? Passing?... They've got little to nothing on Wilt in terms of being "better" players, and they're actually lagging behind in most categories you could make up as far as responsibilites/duties of the center position goes. The crux of your argument is "rings" and in Kareem's case particularly, longevity and free throws. Only one of those things is an actual ability, they other two are just things that can effect "greatness" rankings depending on who you talk to. But at their peaks, prime Wilt was a better overall player than both of those guys.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://i.minus.com/iHXWVpqaZYXb2.gif
PLAYOFFS

Championships
Kareem - 6
Shaq - 4
Hakeem - 2
Wilt - 2

Scoring Average
Hakeem - 25.9 ppg / 56.9 TS%
Kareem - 24.3 ppg / 57.1 TS%
Shaq - 24.3 ppg / 56.5 TS%
Wilt - 22.5 ppg / 52.4 TS%

30-point games
Kareem - 75
Shaq - 55
Hakeem - 53
Wilt - 42

40-point games
Wilt - 13
Shaq - 12
Hakeem - 11
Kareem - 9

[pudman13]

Those who use Shaq in an argument like this seem to have not noticed that he never led the league in rebounds or blocks. He did lead the league in FG% ten times, but even that is only once more than Wilt.

There's some kind of weirdo anti-Wilt bias over at the basektball-reference. His fan rating is 116, between George McGinnis and Vlade Divac.

[CavaliersFTW]

PLAYOFFS

Championships
Kareem - 6
Shaq - 4
Hakeem - 2
Wilt - 2

Scoring Average
Hakeem - 25.9 ppg / 56.9 TS%
Kareem - 24.3 ppg / 57.1 TS%
Shaq - 24.3 ppg / 56.5 TS%
Wilt - 22.5 ppg / 52.4 TS%

30-point games
Kareem - 75
Shaq - 55
Hakeem - 53
Wilt - 42

40-point games
Wilt - 13
Shaq - 12
Hakeem - 11
Kareem - 9
http://kommein.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/For-Dummies.gif

His playoff games played with his 3 different team roles - disproportionate in frequency to his regular season career stats.

Wilt played 24 playoff games as the teams dedicated volume scorer...

Season Age Tm Lg G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
1959-60 23 PHW NBA 9 415 125 252 49 110 232 19 17 299 .496 .445 46.1 33.2 25.8 2.1
1960-61 24 PHW NBA 3 144 45 96 21 38 69 6 10 111 .469 .553 48.0 37.0 23.0 2.0
1961-62 25 PHW NBA 12 576 162 347 96 151 319 37 27 420 .467 .636 48.0 35.0 26.6 3.1

Combined NBA 24 1135 332 695 166 299 620 62 54 830 .478 .555 47.3 34.6 25.8 2.6




Wilt played 56 playoff games as a high-post playmaker and balanced defensive/offensive anchor.


Season Age Tm Lg G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
1963-64 27 SFW NBA 12 558 175 322 66 139 302 39 27 416 .543 .475 46.5 34.7 25.2 3.3
1964-65 28 PHI NBA 11 536 123 232 76 136 299 48 29 322 .530 .559 48.7 29.3 27.2 4.4
1965-66 29 PHI NBA 5 240 56 110 28 68 151 15 10 140 .509 .412 48.0 28.0 30.2 3.0
1966-67 30 PHI NBA 15 718 132 228 62 160 437 135 37 326 .579 .388 47.9 21.7 29.1 9.0
1967-68 31 PHI NBA 13 631 124 232 60 158 321 85 29 308 .534 .380 48.5 23.7 24.7 6.5

Combined NBA 56 2683 610 1124 292 661 1510 322 132 1512 .543 .441 47.9 27.0 26.9 5.8



Wilt played 80 playoff games as defensive anchor and an opportunistic scorer.


Season Age Tm Lg G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
1968-69 32 LAL NBA 18 832 96 176 58 148 444 46 46 250 .545 .392 46.2 13.9 24.7 2.6
1969-70 33 LAL NBA 18 851 158 288 82 202 399 81 42 398 .549 .406 47.3 22.1 22.2 4.5
1970-71 34 LAL NBA 12 554 85 187 50 97 242 53 33 220 .455 .515 46.2 18.3 20.2 4.4
1971-72 35 LAL NBA 15 703 80 142 60 122 315 49 47 220 .563 .492 46.9 14.7 21.0 3.3
1972-73 36 LAL NBA 17 801 64 116 49 98 383 60 48 177 .552 .500 47.1 10.4 22.5 3.5

Combined NBA 80 3741 483 909 299 667 1783 289 216 1265 .531 .448 46.7 15.8 22.3 3.6


A whopping 50 percent of his career playoff games are played from the age of 32-36, as a defensive anchor.

Where as only 32 percent of his career regular season games are played from that same age with that same role.

[Legends66NBA7]

^Yeah, was going to say his roles were different. But anyways, since this got left off...

50 point games in the playoffs

Wilt - 4

Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem - 0


And for the record, all 4 very comparable. Not much difference between their games.

[Deuce Bigalow]

NBA Finals

Record
Shaq - 4/6
Hakeem - 2/3
Kareem - 6/10
Wilt - 2/6

Scoring Average
Shaq - 28.8 ppg / 59.0 TS%
Hakeem - 28.0 ppg / 53.4 TS%
Kareem - 23.5 ppg / 55.6 TS%
Wilt - 18.6 ppg / 52.8 TS%

30 point games
Shaq - 16
Kareem - 16
Hakeem - 8
Wilt - 4

40 point games
Shaq - 5
Wilt - 1
Kareem - 1
Hakeem - 0

[CavaliersFTW]

Finals

Record
Shaq - 4/6
Hakeem - 2/3
Kareem - 6/10
Wilt - 2/6

Scoring Average
Shaq - 28.8 ppg
Hakeem - 28.0 ppg
Kareem - 23.5 ppg
Wilt - 18.6 ppg

30 point games
Shaq - 16
Kareem - 16
Hakeem - 8
Wilt - 4

40 point games
Shaq - 5
Wilt - 1
Kareem - 1
Hakeem - 0
Number of times Wilt played in the Finals in his prime as a dedicated volume scorer: 0

Number of times Wilt played in the Finals in his prime as a high post-passer / playmaker: 2

Number of times Wilt played in the Finals past his prime, in his 30's sharing offensive touches with a "big 3": 2

Number of times Wilt played in the Finals past his prime, in his mid 30's with a primarily defensive-minded role: 2

[HomieWeMajor]

Wilt averaged 48.5mpg the season when he averaged 50 points. Guy was playing in blowouts just to pad his scoring total.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt averaged 48.5mpg the season when he averaged 50 points. Guy was playing in blowouts just to pad his scoring total.
Wilt hating 101: Flip/spin Wilt's amazing records into something negative. Your doing good so far :applause:

[poido123]

We have already seen two players better - Kareem and Shaq
Also one that is comparable in Hakeem who won the same amount of rings

Again, I'm not talking about who's better, I'm talking about if there will be a player who will repeat the statistical performances of Wilt.

For eg. 100 point game
a 50 point, 30 rebound game

[blood yes]

Again, I'm not talking about who's better, I'm talking about if there will be a player who will repeat the statistical performances of Wilt.

For eg. 100 point game
a 50 point, 30 rebound game

I never knew anyone could be so ****ing retarded :facepalm

Do you not fckin get it? The NBA is way different today, it is just not possible for players to average 50 points and 30 rebounds.

NO ONE will EVER get the type of stats wilt did in the regular season, unless the rules of the NBA change. The league was not yet evolved, into the game you know today.

If you think Wilt could average 50 and 30, let alone 40 and 18 today, ur dumb as ****s.

Wilt today would average maybe around 23 and 13, with like 3 blocks.

GEt it into ur dam head, the stats wilt put up will never be put again, just because the NBA has become too evolved

[CavaliersFTW]

I never knew anyone could be so ****ing retarded :facepalm

Do you not fckin get it? The NBA is way different today, it is just not possible for players to average 50 points and 30 rebounds.

NO ONE will EVER get the type of stats wilt did in the regular season, unless the rules of the NBA change. The league was not yet evolved, into the game you know today.

If you think Wilt could average 50 and 30, let alone 40 and 18 today, ur dumb as ****s.

Wilt today would average maybe around 23 and 13, with like 3 blocks.

GEt it into ur dam head, the stats wilt put up will never be put again, just because the NBA has become too evolved
So Wilt Chamberlain would be outrebounded and outscored by Kevin Love

:applause: good maths you did there, Wilt was such a bum

[poido123]

I never knew anyone could be so ****ing retarded :facepalm

Do you not fckin get it? The NBA is way different today, it is just not possible for players to average 50 points and 30 rebounds.

NO ONE will EVER get the type of stats wilt did in the regular season, unless the rules of the NBA change. The league was not yet evolved, into the game you know today.

If you think Wilt could average 50 and 30, let alone 40 and 18 today, ur dumb as ****s.

Wilt today would average maybe around 23 and 13, with like 3 blocks.

GEt it into ur dam head, the stats wilt put up will never be put again, just because the NBA has become too evolved


Calm down, take your meds.

When I did suggest what Wilt could average today, I said 25 points and 22 rebounds, with 4 blocks, not out of the question.

Seriously, I have no idea where your angry outburst came from, I didn't attack you nor did I go out of my way to offend you :eek:

[blood yes]

Calm down, take your meds.

When I did suggest what Wilt could average today, I said 25 points and 22 rebounds, with 4 blocks, not out of the question.

Seriously, I have no idea where your angry outburst came from, I didn't attack you nor did I go out of my way to offend you :eek:
HELL NO at 22 rebounds.

At most, wilt today would average 25 and 16.

And i like how you totally evaded the main point of the topic.

Just admit it, you were not thinking straight when you made this thread, a 4 year old would know nobody willl ever repeat the stats wilt put up in the 1960s unless a crazy rule change in the nba happens

[Sharmer]

Kris humphries

[CavaliersFTW]

HELL NO at 22 rebounds.

At most, wilt today would average 25 and 16.

And i like how you totally evaded the main point of the topic.

Just admit it, you were not thinking straight when you made this thread, a 4 year old would know nobody willl ever repeat the stats wilt put up in the 1960s unless a crazy rule change in the nba happens
lol @ you presuming to know anything about what kind of numbers Wilt would put up, let alone attempting to correct someone :oldlol:

You think Wilt would be Kevin Love in todays NBA. Your a clown, stick to topics you know something about.

[blood yes]

lol @ you presuming to know anything about what kind of numbers Wilt would put up, let alone attempting to correct someone :oldlol:

You think Wilt would be Kevin Love in todays NBA. Your a clown, stick to topics you know something about.

First of all, Kevin Love never put up 25-16, and second, his team sucked in the 2011 season, and he was allowed to statpad all he wanted. Are you now trying to say shaq is as good as klove?

25-16 is good stats, that is as good as 27-14, which is what shaq produced.


By the quotes of CavaliersFTW : "You think Shaq would be Kevin Love in todays NBA. Your a clown, stick to topics you know something about"

[poido123]

HELL NO at 22 rebounds.

At most, wilt today would average 25 and 16.

And i like how you totally evaded the main point of the topic.

Just admit it, you were not thinking straight when you made this thread, a 4 year old would know nobody willl ever repeat the stats wilt put up in the 1960s unless a crazy rule change in the nba happens


I suggest you go back to lurking.

I made this thread to have something to talk about in a slow offseason, with so many Jordan vs Lebron vs Kobe threads I offered up something different.

You assuming Wilt would average 25 and 16 is your opinion, not fact. Same as me saying Wilt would average 25 and 22.

You can not assume no one will ever reach the statistical performances of Wilt, because you simply don't know the future or what rules changes may happen in the next 50 years or so.

It's not out of the question, you have no idea who will come along and change the game of basketball..

[fpliii]

First of all, Kevin Love never put up 25-16, and second, his team sucked in the 2011 season, and he was allowed to statpad all he wanted. Are you now trying to say shaq is as good as klove?

25-16 is good stats, that is as good as 27-14, which is what shaq produced.


By the quotes of CavaliersFTW : "You think Shaq would be Kevin Love in todays NBA. Your a clown, stick to topics you know something about"

I'm not a Wilt guy, but I'm curious. Wilt had three distinct phases to his career: (a) dedicated volume scorer (b) high post passer (c) dedicated defensive anchor. What numbers do you think he'd put up in each of those three phases (not that I care either way, but it's hard to think of it that way; the guy had a weird career)?

[blood yes]

I suggest you go back to lurking.

I made this thread to have something to talk about in a slow offseason, with so many Jordan vs Lebron vs Kobe threads I offered up something different.

You assuming Wilt would average 25 and 16 is your opinion, not fact. Same as me saying Wilt would average 25 and 22.

You can not assume no one will ever reach the statistical performances of Wilt, because you simply don't know the future or what rules changes may happen in the next 50 years or so.

It's not out of the question, you have no idea who will come along and change the game of basketball..

Can you read? I said "unless a major rule change happens"

And also, do you honestly think 50 and 30 can happen again?

Michael Jordan, KAJ, Shaq, LeBron, Kobe, MAJ, Bird, and others never came close to the stats wilt did, and im sure u have jordan over wilt.

I repeat, nobody in the nba will average 50 and 30 unless a major rule change occurs

[blood yes]

I'm not a Wilt guy, but I'm curious. Wilt had three distinct phases to his career: (a) dedicated volume scorer (b) high post passer (c) dedicated defensive anchor. What numbers do you think he'd put up in each of those three phases (not that I care either way, but it's hard to think of it that way; the guy had a weird career)?


Im guessing you are talking about wilt today, in the modern 2013 nba?

(points-rebs-assists-blocks)

a. 25-16-2-3
b. 18-16-5-3
c. 18-17-2-4

Before you go all out and complain, remember that shaq at his best averaged 27-14, which is about the same as a 25-16.

[longtime lurker]

No we won't see as dominant a player as Wilt ever again. The guy literally took a shit all over the record books and a lot of his records still stand today. I don't think they'll ever be a more adaptable player in the league.

[fpliii]

Im guessing you are talking about wilt today, in the modern 2013 nba?

(points-rebs-assists-blocks)

a. 25-16-2-3
b. 18-16-5-3
c. 18-17-2-4

Before you go all out and complain, remember that shaq at his best averaged 27-14, which is about the same as a 25-16.

Thanks for the response, and don't worry yourself about me complaining. I disagree with those numbers, but you're entitled to your opinion as long as you've done the research. The Shaq comparison (Shaq's my favorite player all-time) is tough since when he was at his best, he coasted in the regular season (and went all-out in the Finals) aside from 99-00. I think something like this (just off the top of my head):

a) 30-18-1-3
b) 20-20-6-5
c) 15-16-3-4

with career averages of 25-18-4-4 makes sense if he's playing 40-something minutes. If he's getting low-mid 30s instead, probably 23-16-4-4. I think we're on the same page though, for the most part. That being said, we're all speculating, none of us really has a clue.

[aj1987]

Thanks for the response, and don't worry yourself about me complaining. I disagree with those numbers, but you're entitled to your opinion as long as you've done the research. The Shaq comparison (Shaq's my favorite player all-time) is tough since when he was at his best, he coasted in the regular season (and went all-out in the Finals) aside from 99-00. I think something like this (just off the top of my head):

a) 30-18-1-3
b) 20-20-6-5
c) 15-16-3-4

with career averages of 25-18-4-4 makes sense if he's playing 40-something minutes. If he's getting low-mid 30s instead, probably 23-16-4-4. I think we're on the same page though, for the most part. That being said, we're all speculating, none of us really has a clue.
Do you think he'd score that much with all the rule changes that favor perimeter players?

a) 25-15-2-3
b) 18-15-5-3
c) 15-15-3-4

Career average of ~22-15-3-4 (+/- 1-2 in each of the statistical category).

[fpliii]

Do you think he'd score that much with all the rule changes that favor perimeter players?

a) 25-15-2-3
b) 18-15-5-3
c) 15-15-3-4

Career average of ~22-15-3-4 (+/- 1-2 in each of the statistical category).

No clue, just pulled those numbers out of nowhere. I'm sure someone could produce good estimates if they put the time in.

I do think his non-scoring numbers would be higher though.

[CavaliersFTW]

Do you think he'd score that much with all the rule changes that favor perimeter players?

a) 25-15-2-3
b) 18-15-5-3
c) 15-15-3-4

Career average of ~22-15-3-4 (+/- 1-2 in each of the statistical category).
The rule changes don't "favor" perimeter players, they merely enable them to pick up the offensive slack big men used to otherwise carry. The game still has room for those bigs to carry an offense with the same kind of dominance - if that is, a big existed that was capable. Suggesting the rules 'favor' the guards in such a way that you feel the NBA rules are holding big men back is likely not the case, for example go watch Hakeem Olajuwon address this on his Youtube channel, he is asked about that topic specifically in an interview and clearly states he doesn't believe rules are holding big men back at all in today's game, he states that the reasons no bigs are doing what the dominant centers of his era and say, the 60's and early 70's era were doing is because those eras were the exception to the norm. The norm being, that no people that size have that level of skill and abilties. He says dominant bigs will return, it's just rare.

[JellyBean]

In high school, yeah. It happens a lot. In college and the NBA, never. Wilt's dominance in the NBA is like a really dominant, 7'1" college player going to some local middle school basketball team and taking over on the court.

[aj1987]

Suggesting the rules 'favor' the guards in such a way that you feel the NBA rules are holding big men back is likely not the case. He says dominant bigs will return, it's just rare.
Should've worded it better.

They will, but I don't think we'll see players average 50/25 or even 35/25.

[millwad]

Pretty hilarious how some of you assume that Wilt would have massive scoring seasons.

Wilt's scoring average looks impressive because of two things;

1. The pace, the pace was crazy fast back then and playing for mediocre teams allowed Wilt to statpad like there was no tomorrow. He averaged 40 shots per game during a whole season for god sake. The pace led to alot more FGA which also lead to more points obviously. It should also be noted that his crazy rebounding numbers was also due playing in that particular era, they shot with way worse FG% while taking more shots which led to way more available rebounds.

2. Wilt's playing time, by normal standards no one would play the amount of minutes that WIlt did. Neither guards or big guys, no one. If you'd look at his PER 36 minute average he suddenly looks way more human.

[millwad]

And just a reminder, Wilt's point per game average per 36 minutes in the playoffs was 17.2 points. His numbers in terms of scoring always went down in the playoffs.

[millwad]

And no, we will never see another Wilt because the overall skillset today is way higher than it used to be.

And I assume that OP is meaning if we'd see a player that would dominate in terms of stats the way Wilt did because winning wasn't Wilt thing when he was at his statistical prime.

Wilt played in a way less developed era and he had his statistical prime against shorter and less athletic teams with less skillset. And if that wasn't enough, the defensive schemes are amazing today and you can't say the same about the 60's and Wilt played in an era where double and triple teams were a rarity.

[millwad]

http://i.minus.com/iHXWVpqaZYXb2.gif

Wilt's playoff scoring average: 22.5 points

Jordan's playoff scoring average: 33.4 points

Kobe's playoff scoring average: 25.6 points

Baylor's playoff scoring average: 27 points

And it's really hilarious, Wilt scored 60 points or more 32 times in his career but he never did it in the playoffs..

[La Frescobaldi]

Sure, it's possible. There's nobody out there now, but it could happen.

When I say there's nobody out there - - - if there was, we would know it.

Look at Kobe when he was a kid. Everybody knew when he was in high school that something amazing was going on. Same exact thing happened when LeBron showed up. The whole sports world got wound clear up like a top because something amazing was brewing in that high school.

Well in the '50s that was happening too. The entire country knew about the amazingly tall kid from Philly who was absolutely destroying NBA players during his summer vacations.

The guy scored 90 points in a high school game.... that had 8 minute quarters. I mean regardless of competition just the stamina to throw the darn ball in that many times in that amount of time is mind boggling!! To do that you'd have to be moving at a constant, non-stop sprint.

But yeah, sure it could happen one day.

Wilt himself is on record saying that man who could be better than Wilt Chamberlain could be Shaq.... but then after 3 or 4 years he came back and called Shaq out because he didn't bother much with rebounds, didn't play great defense. Which was all true - Shaq played high quality defense all right, good solid NBA level D. But not at a Walton level, not at a Russell level.... not at a Wilt level. Never did. Shaq was elite only within very narrow parameters when using the most elite measuring sticks.
Thus Wilt on Shaq (and I paraphrase... all those interviews are available on youtube).

But those who say that a guy with those kinds of skills and that kind of athletic ability couldn't throw down enormously on today's NBA just have the wrong image of 60s hoops.
Those dudes were big, they were fast, they were strong, and they had very high skills. Same size and speed as today's players. 6'10 245 lbs is the same size today as it was then. And that was the size of the league's starting centers back then... just like it is today. Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Russell, Chamberlain, Connie Dierking... just a lot of big trees in the paint.
Those guys were the same size as Tim Duncan, Omar Asik, KG, and all the rest, and just like today, they were the most skilled players in the world. 20-10 centers were as valuable back then as they are today.... but #13 was a 30-23 center.... and he stopped shooting midway through his career.

Chamberlain was just like Jordan - he was that much better than anything else out there. The whole arena changes when guys like that walk in.

But Wilt did show up, Mike did show up, Kobe, LeBron..... yes I think there will be another guy like Chamberlain, or like Mighty Bill Russell.... I've been waiting 40 years to see him, and I still get excited at the prospect!!

[b1imtf]

Wilt hating 101: Flip/spin Wilt's amazing records into something negative. Your doing good so far :applause:
Wil ****-sucking 101: everything you post

[deja vu]

I don't understand why Wilt's numbers dipped in the playoffs. Almost every superstar increased their production in the playoffs. Why not Wilt? Even during his 50+ ppg season, his playoff averages decreased dramatically. If he's so good, why did that happen? Normally, you start beasting during the playoffs to prove a point.

[Marchesk]

I don't understand why Wilt's numbers dipped in the playoffs. Almost every superstar increased their production in the playoffs. Why not Wilt? Even during his 50+ ppg season, his playoff averages decreased dramatically. If he's so good, why did that happen? Normally, you start beasting during the playoffs to prove a point.

It's a good question. Too bad those games aren't all available in decent quality for us to watch. I don't know how much playoff footage Cavs has of Wilt.

Possibilities:

1. Better defense in the playoffs, particularly the defensive attention paid to Wilt. Also that Wilt played against Russell for a lot of those games. One poster pointed out that it would be like Jordan playing against Payton each year in the ECF.

2. The pace was different? Maybe less shots available. I'm not sure that's the case, though.

3. It was a better playoff strategy to distribute the ball more on offense to other players.

4. Wilt didn't put up the same kind of effort for whatever reason.

I'm looking at his playoff FG%. It was down a bit his second and third playoffs, but up for his fourth. His PER that playoffs was 31.3, when he he went 34.7/25.2/3.3 on 54.3%. His big scoring came against St Louis. In the finals against Boston he only averaged 29 a game.

[Marchesk]

Interesting, the 1963-64 Wariors with Wilt and Thurmond only allowed 102.6 ppg in that high paced era.

[fpliii]

It's a good question. Too bad those games aren't all available in decent quality for us to watch. I don't know how much playoff footage Cavs has of Wilt.

Possibilities:

1. Better defense in the playoffs, particularly the defensive attention paid to Wilt. Also that Wilt played against Russell for a lot of those games. One poster pointed out that it would be like Jordan playing against Payton each year in the ECF.

2. The pace was different? Maybe less shots available. I'm not sure that's the case, though.

3. It was a better playoff strategy to distribute the ball more on offense to other players.

4. Wilt didn't put up the same kind of effort for whatever reason.

I'm looking at his playoff FG%. It was down a bit his second and third playoffs, but up for his fourth. His PER that playoffs was 31.3, when he he went 34.7/25.2/3.3 on 54.3%. His big scoring came against St Louis. In the finals against Boston he only averaged 29 a game.

I think it comes down to:

1) Russell factor (see this thread: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1270141)

2) The FT thing really matters in close games. Seriously, Wilt lost more than a couple of Game 7's, so why not foul him? He's almost certainly going to miss one, and often enough he'll miss both (or three, since they had three-to-make-two situations back then), so you'll take your chances there rather than leave him at the line.

3) Slower playoff pace/more gimmick defenses.

There were some freak occurrences, but he lost a bunch of games at the line. He was really, really, bad there (probably the worst ever, taking into account volume and the three-to-make-two thing, worse than your Ben Wallaces, Shaqs, Reggie Evanses, and Bill Russells), and if he was even marginally better, his team's chances would've drastically improved.

I mean 1968 (Wilt stopped shooting, and supposedly had mailed it in since he'd decided already that he wanted to play for LA) and 1969 were also weird (his and van Breda Kolff's mutual resentment led to the latter not putting him back in, late in G7), but seriously, the FT shooting was truly awful.

It sounds kinda silly (especially since you'd think any random person could master shooting free throws), and since it doesn't even occur during the course of actual play so it should be mechanical, but literally this one negative caused Wilt tons and tons of problems. There are tons of theories/explanations as to why he had the deficiency, but the bottom line is that he did, and it likely cost him multiple championships.

I'm not a Wilt guy personally, but I don't actively dislike him or have anything against him. I'm just calling it how I see it.

[fpliii]

Interesting, the 1963-64 Wariors with Wilt and Thurmond only allowed 102.6 ppg in that high paced era.

Yeah, that was one of (arguably) Wilt's best defensive seasons. Looking at relative DRtg compared to the rest of the league:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?pli=1&key=0At9OxyY2Zhw6dF80TGxJQXliY0RlcXlxSHJXdGhjV3c&type=view&gid=3&f=true&colid0=2&filterstr0=NBA&sortcolid=16&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=25

That Warriors Squad was 14th ever, in the same season as the GOAT defense (though it works both ways; replace the Warriors with an average defense and the Celtics are miles ahead). FWIW the 04 Pistons after acquiring Sheed are 3rd, prorated at -9.4% (including the postseason! 92.0 DRtg for the regular season and playoffs after trading for him).

[La Frescobaldi]

I don't understand why Wilt's numbers dipped in the playoffs. Almost every superstar increased their production in the playoffs. Why not Wilt? Even during his 50+ ppg season, his playoff averages decreased dramatically. If he's so good, why did that happen? Normally, you start beasting during the playoffs to prove a point.

You know, things like 41 rebounds in a playoff game, and getting multiple quadruple doubles in the playoffs is throwing down something fierce...... especially when he did those kinds of things against the Celtics.

But those earlier, Warrior days...... well, this is true of all centers. Centers do not get the ball unless someone passes it to them. And Chamberlain did not get the ball as often in the playoffs.

There's very very little footage of that early '60s NBA, when Chamberlain was the scoring force. There's part of a '64 Celtics-Warriors Finals game, and that's about all there is on Youtube.

But what there is available, shows a whole lot of insane shot-jacking from out in the parking lot. And the stats prove that exactly.

The '62 Warriors had guys like Tom Gola and Paul Arizin - relics of the '50s and from what tiny amount I have seen they WERE relics. Very old legs. Al Attles was real fast, a real solid player all through his career, and always exciting because there was likely to be a fight for any reason, or none. But not the guy to take over games against an Oscar Robertson, or a Bob Cousy or KC Jones. Tom Meschery was brutality unleashed, but he could play some hoops.

But anyhow... the Warriors totally abandoned the strategy the team had used all season long which was - Duh! Get the ball in down low to Chamberlain.
During the regular season, Wilt shot 39.5 FGA per game (!!!)
But look at the playoffs: 28.9 FGA
11 fewer shots per game!!!!!
Remember, we are talking about a center, now, not a guard. He didn't bring the ball down the court. It had to be passed in to him. Think about KG in the paint for the Celtics. If they don't pass it in to him... he's not going to be shooting. Very simple.

Over and over in the little video clips, you can see Chamberlain in position down on the block, with Russell so pinned behind Wilt he looks invisible, with a clear passing lane.... and a freaking buzz bomb goes sailing over from 25 or 28 feet out.

If you look at the Warrior playoff averages, it is truly disgusting.
Arizin 21 FGA on .375 FG%
Rogers 12 FGA on .359 FG%
Gola 8 FGA on .271 FG%
Al Attles shot 47% during the season.... and 36% in the playoffs.
These are playoff shooting numbers.

So the guards stepped up their shooting pace from regular season - they took Chamberlain's extra 10 shots themselves, you see? They averaged around 41, to 45% FG% in the regular season (43% as a team).
Not 1 single Warrior (except Chamberlain) shot even 40% from the field in the '62 playoffs.
It doesn't matter who the player is, if they get ELEVEN fewer touches in the playoffs than they do in the regular season, their average is going down. No way around it.

People bash Chamberlain because his numbers went down, but they don't bother - or don't know how - to look at the whole picture and find out why it happened.

Sure, he was playing against the greatest defensive player of the '60s - his numbers often went down against Russell as opposed to what he did against other centers. So did everybody. Russell was amazing. But there's a whole lot more to it than just Bill Russell.
Russell himself is on record as saying Chamberlain was going to score a hundred, and he was just thankful it wasn't against Bill Russell, because Wilt could have done it.

[Marchesk]

If you look at the Warrior playoff averages, it is truly disgusting.
Arizin 21 FGA on .375 FG%
Rogers 12 FGA on .359 FG%
Gola 8 FGA on .271 FG%
Al Attles shot 47% during the season.... and 36% in the playoffs.
These are playoff shooting numbers.

That's bad. Really bad. We get on Kobe and Melo, but those dudes would put Iverson to shame. What were they thinking? Was their dissension in the locker room? Did they get tired of Wilt getting so many shots? It would be one thing if they were shooting well. But those percentages are brutal.

[deja vu]

You know, things like 41 rebounds in a playoff game, and getting multiple quadruple doubles in the playoffs is throwing down something fierce...... especially when he did those kinds of things against the Celtics.

But those earlier, Warrior days...... well, this is true of all centers. Centers do not get the ball unless someone passes it to them. And Chamberlain did not get the ball as often in the playoffs.

There's very very little footage of that early '60s NBA, when Chamberlain was the scoring force. There's part of a '64 Celtics-Warriors Finals game, and that's about all there is on Youtube.

But what there is available, shows a whole lot of insane shot-jacking from out in the parking lot. And the stats prove that exactly.

The '62 Warriors had guys like Tom Gola and Paul Arizin - relics of the '50s and from what tiny amount I have seen they WERE relics. Very old legs. Al Attles was real fast, a real solid player all through his career, and always exciting because there was likely to be a fight for any reason, or none. But not the guy to take over games against an Oscar Robertson, or a Bob Cousy or KC Jones. Tom Meschery was brutality unleashed, but he could play some hoops.

But anyhow... the Warriors totally abandoned the strategy the team had used all season long which was - Duh! Get the ball in down low to Chamberlain.
During the regular season, Wilt shot 39.5 FGA per game (!!!)
But look at the playoffs: 28.9 FGA
11 fewer shots per game!!!!!
Remember, we are talking about a center, now, not a guard. He didn't bring the ball down the court. It had to be passed in to him. Think about KG in the paint for the Celtics. If they don't pass it in to him... he's not going to be shooting. Very simple.

Over and over in the little video clips, you can see Chamberlain in position down on the block, with Russell so pinned behind Wilt he looks invisible, with a clear passing lane.... and a freaking buzz bomb goes sailing over from 25 or 28 feet out.

If you look at the Warrior playoff averages, it is truly disgusting.
Arizin 21 FGA on .375 FG%
Rogers 12 FGA on .359 FG%
Gola 8 FGA on .271 FG%
Al Attles shot 47% during the season.... and 36% in the playoffs.
These are playoff shooting numbers.

So the guards stepped up their shooting pace from regular season - they took Chamberlain's extra 10 shots themselves, you see? They averaged around 41, to 45% FG% in the regular season (43% as a team).
Not 1 single Warrior (except Chamberlain) shot even 40% from the field in the '62 playoffs.
It doesn't matter who the player is, if they get ELEVEN fewer touches in the playoffs than they do in the regular season, their average is going down. No way around it.

People bash Chamberlain because his numbers went down, but they don't bother - or don't know how - to look at the whole picture and find out why it happened.

Sure, he was playing against the greatest defensive player of the '60s - his numbers often went down against Russell as opposed to what he did against other centers. So did everybody. Russell was amazing. But there's a whole lot more to it than just Bill Russell.
Russell himself is on record as saying Chamberlain was going to score a hundred, and he was just thankful it wasn't against Bill Russell, because Wilt could have done it.
Thank you for the very detailed post. This is what makes ISH the best basketball forum - people like you who are very knowledgeable. I hope your post will shut up some of the haters here.

Maybe you and Lazeruss can start a website where you debunk all those so-called Wilt failures. :lol

[kshutts1]

Pretty hilarious how some of you assume that Wilt would have massive scoring seasons.

Wilt's scoring average looks impressive because of two things;

1. The pace, the pace was crazy fast back then and playing for mediocre teams allowed Wilt to statpad like there was no tomorrow. He averaged 40 shots per game during a whole season for god sake. The pace led to alot more FGA which also lead to more points obviously. It should also be noted that his crazy rebounding numbers was also due playing in that particular era, they shot with way worse FG% while taking more shots which led to way more available rebounds.

2. Wilt's playing time, by normal standards no one would play the amount of minutes that WIlt did. Neither guards or big guys, no one. If you'd look at his PER 36 minute average he suddenly looks way more human.
Sigh. I know you're an anti-Wilt troll of sorts, but I can't help but respond this time..

Bold 1)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_top_indivi dual_scoring_season_averages
...Pretty sure the "pace" was similar for Baylor, Baylor again, Barry, Baylor again... yet they could only total about 70% of Wilt's scoring average. I guess only Wilt played in the a faster pace league, in some alternate universe, while everyone else slogged through the "normal pace" league?

Bold 2)
No one plays that many minutes any more because they can't. You really think Spo doesn't want a non-fatigued Lebron out there over Mike Miller or something? Spo worries about fatigue (I don't think Wilt ever heard that word) and injuries. Wilt was so spectacular (and lucky) that he didn't have to worry about either. Again, if the era played an effect for Wilt, why did it not have an effect on the others?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/mp_per_g_career.html

I see a "mixed bag" in terms of era. If, as already stated, MPG had anything to do with the era (instead of with Wilt) then there would be more 60's players than anything. Instead it's mixed.

I would like to add one "theoretical" point for the third bold. The above points are pretty stat/fact-based.
Anyway, if Wilt were to play lesser minutes, say in the modern league, one would assume that his efficiency, great as it was anyway, would only go up. Logically, his per36 would go up. So we can't take his 46mpg averages and translate them to 36. Anyone played that much fewer minutes will be that much more fresh, that much more efficient, etc.

[LAZERUSS]

I have posted much of this before, but it certainly applies to this topic...

Kareem played four years in the Wilt-era, and in fact,played against several of the same centers that a PRIME "scoring" Chamberlain had also battled. What do I mean by a "scorig" Chamberlain? From his rookie season in '59-60, thru his 65-66 season, Wilt was at his "scoring" peak. In those first seven seasons, he averaged nearly 40 ppg (oh, and btw, he averaged 33 ppg in the post-season in that same span, albeitwith missing the playoffs in his 45 ppg season, and also facing Russell in over half of his playoff games to that point.) And, as I have also pointed out before, Kareem's greatest statistical seasons took place in his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th seasons...all in the Chamberlain-era.

Furthermore, Chamberlain still put up some unfathomable games, even beyond his "scoring" prime. In fact, few here are probaby aware that before the start of the '69-70 season, Wilt's new coach at the time, Joe Mullaney, who had replaced the incompetent Butch Van Breda Kolf, had asked Wilt to become the focal point of the Laker offense that season. Chamberlain, whose last great scoring season (65-66) had come over three years before, relished the request, and responded by leading the league in scoring over the course of the first nine NBA games that season, at 32.2 ppg (and on a .579 FG%.) Oh, and btw, Kareem was rookie that season. Included in those nine games were games of 33, 35, 37 (against 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle), 38 (against reigning MVP Wes Unseld), 42, and 43 points. Oh, and in his only h2h with Kareem before blowing out his knee, Chamberlain outplayed he young Kareem in every aspect of the game, whil scoring 25 points on 9-14 shooting. Unfortunately, Chamberlain shredded his knee in that ninth game (33 points on 13-14 shooting BTW), and was never the same offensive force again.


Anyway, here are some fascinating H2H facts. And before I even get to a "scoring" Wilt's dominance, how about some H2H's well after Wilt's last great scoring season?


Kareem went H2H with Wes Unseld in 45 career games. In those 45 h2h's, KAJ posted high games of 39, 39, and 39 points.

Wilt never faced Unseld, who was a rookie in the 68-69 season, in his "scoring" prime, but even well after it, he hung a 38 point game on him.


Kareem's high games against Elvin Hayes were 42 and 41 points (BTW, Hayes had a 41 point game against him.)

Here again, Wilt did not go h2h with Hayes at his scoring peak, but in their 22 career H2H's, and even well after his last "scoring" season, he still had games of 36 and 35 against Hayes. (And yes, Hayes recorded two 40 point games against Wilt.)
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KAJ and the 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier went at in 52 career H2H games. In Kareem's 72-73 season, he plastered Lanier with games of 44 and 43 points, and his other high game against Lanier was 39 points. (Lanier's high game against KAJ was 41 btw.)

Meanwhile, Chamberlain battled Lanier in 16 career h2h's, (and all came after his major knee surgery.) Let's give Lanier his due, ...he hung a 42 point on Wilt. Still, a post-operation Chamberlain had games of 30 and 31 points (to go along with 32 rebounds.) Furthermore, in their last 11 straight games, covering their 71-72 and 72-73 h2h's, Wilt not only averaged 23.9 ppg against Lanier...he did so on...get this... a .786 FG%!
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Most fans here have probably never heard of Bob Rule. His NBA was very brief, and ended with a torn achilles tendon. In between, he had seasons of 24.0 ppg and 24.6 ppg, and just before he tore his achilles in the70-71 season, he was averaging 29.8 ppg.

KAJ had games of 53, 51 and 36 points against Rule in their 16 h2h's.

Chamberlain and Rule played in 22 career games, and while Wilt was not in his "scoring" prime in his 67-68 season, he was still capable of 50+ point games (he had games of 52, 5, 53, and 68 points that season)...and his high games against Rule in that 67-68 season were 53, 52, and 47 points.

Oh, and just before he shredded his knee in his 69-70 season, a 33 year old Wilt shelled Rule with a 42 point game (on 19-31 shooting, with 23 rebounds, and 6 asisists.)
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Kareem faced 6-10 Jim Fox in 37 career h2h matchups. His high games against Fox were 40, 40, and 39 points.

Chamberlain and Fox played in 25 career H2H's, ...all past Wilt's "scoring" peak. Still, Wilt had games of 31, 33, and 34 against Fox Oh, and in his 68-69 season, and just the year before KAJ entered the NBA, Wilt registered his last 60+ game...which came against Fox...of 66 points, and on an eyepopping 29-35 shooting performance.
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Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...

Ok, that takes care of the comparisons between some of the centers that both Kareem, and a Wilt, who was past his "scoring" peak, each faced. Now, on to centers that both a prime Kareem, and a prime "scoring" Wilt each faced.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

How about HOFer Willis Reed?

Kareem and Reed went at it in 21 career h2h's.
Kareem's high games against Reed... 41, 40, and 38 points.

Wilt and Reed battled in 72 career h2h's, but only 22 of them came in Wilt's "scoring" prime. And, you can remove 10 games in those 22 h2h's, because Reed was a PF playing alongside Walt Bellamy in the 65-66 season. So, the reality was, a "scoring" Wilt only bumped heads with Reed in a dozen games. But in those 12 games, Chamberlain had games of 41, 41 (outscoring Reed 41-9), 46, 52 (outscoring Reed 52-23), and 58 (ouscoring Reed by a 58-28 margin) against Reed And even as late as his 68-69 season, Wilt outscored Reed in a game by a 31-15 margin.
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KAJ and Connie Dierking played in 10 career h2h's.
Kareem's high games against Dierking were 41 and 35 points.

Wilt and Dierking played in 61 h2h's, 28 of which occurred in Wilt's "scoring" prime. Wilt's high games against Dierking in those "scoring years" were 58, 59 (outscoring Dierking 59-4), and 63 points...and a 60 point game against him in the 68-69 season (just the year before KAJ arrived.) Overall, Wilt had 14 games of 40+ against Dierking...including a 43 point game on Connie as late as his 69-70 season (which was KAJ's first year in the league.) So, Wilt had a higher scoring game against Dierking, even when Kareem was in the league, than what KAJ had against Dierking in his entire career.
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How about Darrell Imhoff?
KAJ and Imhoff played in 11 career h2h's, and Kareem's high games against Darrall were 36, 36, and 35 points.

Wilt and Imhoff squared off in 56 career h2h's from their 63-64 season on, 27 of those of which came in Wilt's "scoring" prime. From that 63-64 season, on, Wilt had 10 games of 40+, including games of 49, 49, 53, and 65 points.

Now, basketball-reference only uses h2h's from the 63-64 season on, so I had to do some quick research on h2h's before those years. Just in the 61-62 season alone, Wilt hung games on Imhoff of...55, 58, 59, 67, and another game of... 100 points (of course, Imhoff was not the only center Wilt abused in that game.)

That 58 point game was interesting too. It came a couple of days after his 100 point game, and in it, Imhoff recalled battling Wilt all game long with everything he had, before finally fouling out. And, as he left the court following his 6th foul...he received the only standing ovation of his career.
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How about the 6-11 HOFer Nate Thurmond?
Kareem and Thurmond went at it in some 50 career games in which both players started.
KAJ's high game against Nate was 34 points. In fact, he only had seven games of 30+ in those 50 h2h's. Furthermore, his career FG% against Thurmond was .440 (yes, .440, in 50 h2h games.) Included were three straight playoff series in which KAJ shot .486, .428, and an unfathomable .405 against Nate.

Chamberlain and Thurmond faced off in 64 career H2H's, BUT, only 12 of them came in Wilt's "scoring" prime. And in that period, Chamberlain had six gmes of 30+ against Nate. And, if you include their first h2h game in the 66-67 season (when Wilt dramatically cut backhis shooting), Wilt had a total of seven 30+ against Nate, in 13 games overall. So, a prime (and "near-prime")Chamberlain had as many 30+ point games against Nate, in a period of 13 games, that KAJ had against Thurmond in 50 h2h's.

Oh, and Wilt's high games against Thurmond were 34, 38, and 45 points (and Wilt was outscoring Nate by margins of 33-17, 33-10, 38-15, and 45-13.)

And Wilt and Thurmond also battled in three playoff series, and Chamberlain outshot Nate by margins of .500 - .392; .550 to .398; and .560 to .343 (in Nate's greatest season.)
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That brings us to the 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy.

KAJ and Bellamy played in 24 career h2h's. And while Bellamy was no longer the scoring force that he had been in the 60's, he was still hanging a 19 ppg season (on .545 shooting) as late as his 71-72 season.

KAJ's high games against Bellamy were 40, 39, and 35 points. (Incidently, Bellamy outscored KAJ several times, including their very last matchup.)

How about Wilt against Bellamy?
It all started in their very first encounter. Bellamy was averaging 30 ppg when the two went at it. And Wilt shut Belalamy out in the first half, en route to outscoring him by a 52-14 margin.

Once again, basketball-reference only goes back to the 63-64 season for their h2h's (although the actual boxscores go all the way back to the beginning of the NBA.)

From the 63-64 season, on, Bellamy and Wilt played in a total of 80 h2h games, 30 of which came in Wilt's "scoring" prime. And in those 30 games alone (and not counting their 61-62 and 62-63 h2h's...more on those in a moment)...Wilt held a 25-4-1 scoring edge.

Just in their 63-64, 64-65, and 65-66 seasons, alone, Wilt had nine games of 40+ against Bellamy, with high games of 50, 51, and 56 points.

And while Wilt was asked to cut back his shooting in his 66-67 season, and he "only" averaged 22.7 ppg against Bellamy in their nine h2h's that year...it came on a staggering .709 FG%.

Chamberlain had a playoff high game against Bellamy of 37 points in their 67-68 playoff series (in a series in which Wilt oustcored Bellamy, per game, 25-20, and outshot Bellamy from the field by a 584 to .421 margin...in a season in which Bellamy shot .541 against the NBA.) And as late as Wilt's 68-69 season, he had a game of 34 points against Bellamy.

Back to their 61-62 and 62-63 seasonal h2h's:
In the 62-63 season, the two went at it 10 h2h's, and Wilt averaged...yes averaged... 43.7 ppg against Bellamy.

In their 61-62 seasonal h2h's, covering another 10 games, Wilt averaged...yes averaged... an unfathomable 52.7 ppg against Bellamy. Included were three games of 60+ (including a 73 point, 29-48 shooting, 36 rebound game.)
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Now, a 38-39 year old Kareem, who could barely get 6 rpg, battled a young Hakeem in 10 straight h2h games. Over the course of those ten straight games, KAJ averaged 33.0 ppg...on, get this... a .630 FG% (and yes, Hakeem was the primary defender on KAJ in those games.) Included were games of 40, 43, and 46 points (on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes.)

BTW, a 39 year old KAJ also slaughtered Patrick Ewing in a game a few days within his 46 point explosion against Hakeem. In that game, KAJ outscored Patrick, 40-9, and outshot Ewing, 15-22 to 3-17.
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Tying it together...how come a Kareem, in his greatest statistical seasons, couldn't approach a PRIME Wilt's numbers, despite playing four years IN the Wilt-era? And how come a Kareem, at his peak, was nowhere near as dominant against many of the same centers that a PRIME Chamberlain just destroyed? And yet a 39 year old Kareem, and just a shell of what he had been in his prime...could just wax two HOF centers who would go on to be among the top-4 centers of the 90's?

Hell, a prime Shaq, and going against a haggard Hakeem, could "only" hang a career high (against Hakeem) of 37 points on Olajuwon. And yet a carcass of Kareem could shell Hakeem with three games of 40+?

Kind of puts a PRIME Chamberlain into a better perspective, doesn't it?

[millwad]

Hell, a prime Shaq, and going against a haggard Hakeem, could "only" hang a career high (against Hakeem) of 37 points on Olajuwon. And yet a carcass of Kareem could shell Hakeem with three games of 40+?

Kind of puts a PRIME Chamberlain into a better perspective, doesn't it?

Kareem averaged 40 points on 50% shooting against prime defensive Wilt as an average in the '72 season... :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

Kareem averaged 40 points on 50% shooting against prime defensive Wilt as an average in the '72 season... :oldlol:

Of course that was NOT a PRIME defensive Wilt, and certainly not a PRIME Chamberlain.

BTW, a Chamberlain before he shredded his knee, just waxed Kareem in every category.

But even using the above, which covered five game, the two would meet in the 71-72 WCF's, and this "prime" defensive Wilt (who was nowhere near the defensive Wilt of the mid-to-late 60's) reduced KAJ to a shot-jacking brick layer who not only shot .457 in that series, but in the last four pivotal games of that series, only shot .414 combined. In fact, KAJ failed to shoot anywhere near 50% in those FOUR straight games....which is interesting, since a 37-41 year old Kareem only failed to shoot 50% in THREE of his CAREER 23 h2h's with your boy Hakeem.

BTW, in Wilt's LAST season, covering six h2h games, he held Kareem to .450 shooting (while shooting .737 himself...which included a game in which he outscored KAJ, 24-21, and outshot KAJ, 10-14 to 10-27.) So, in their last TEN STRAIGHT H2H's, an old Chamberlain held a PRIME Kareem to a combined .434 shooting (this from a career .559 shooter, who, BTW, shot a career .607 against Hakeem in their 23 h2h's.)

Kind of puts a different perspective on just how dominant an OLD Wilt was, too, doesn't it?

[millwad]

Of course that was NOT a PRIME defensive Wilt, and certainly not a PRIME Chamberlain.

Easily a prime defensive Wilt. You're the only one who likes to claim otherwise because of the massive beating.



BTW, a Chamberlain before he shredded his knee, just waxed Kareem in every category.

Stop writing out of you ass, all these excuses about Wilt's injuries are laughable. The guy played 42+ minutes in all of his pro seasons and someone who's busted up can't do so.



But even using the above, which covered five game, the two would meet in the 71-72 WCF's, and this "prime" defensive Wilt (who was nowhere near the defensive Wilt of the mid-to-late 60's) reduced KAJ to a shot-jacking brick layer who not only shot .457 in that series, but in the last four pivotal games of that series, only shot .414 combined. In fact, KAJ failed to shoot anywhere near 50% in those FOUR straight games....which is interesting, since a 37-41 year old Kareem only failed to shoot 50% in THREE of his CAREER 23 h2h's with your boy Hakeem.

Haha, that's laughable.
You forgot to mention that he absolutely slaughtered Wilt in that series. Kareem outscored Wilt with 23 points per game in that series, he outassisted him and the difference in rebounds was a small one. Kareem also shot the ball with a higher FG% so using FG% is like punching yourself in your face because Wilt shot with worse FG%, FT% and he averaged 23 points less... per game.




BTW, in Wilt's LAST season, covering six h2h games, he held Kareem to .450 shooting (while shooting .737 himself...which included a game in which he outscored KAJ, 24-21, and outshot KAJ, 10-14 to 10-27.) So, in their last TEN STRAIGHT H2H's, an old Chamberlain held a PRIME Kareem to a combined .434 shooting (this from a career .559 shooter, who, BTW, shot a career .607 against Hakeem in their 23 h2h's.)

Kind of puts a different perspective on just how dominant an OLD Wilt was, too, doesn't it?


I love how you cherry pick.

Kareem scored 37 points on Wilt twice during that season and how you just jump from one season 'til another just so it won't look bad.. :facepalm

[PHILA]

Kareem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKkQyNyXICQ

In the one game video we have of them playing, KAJ had an excellent game just looking at the final shooting statistics, 18/34 FG (53%). But he also had a lot of opportunistic baskets where the ball inadvertently popped into his hands. In that game above he only shot 40% (8/20 FG) against Wilt in the low post half court sets.

[LAZERUSS]

Easily a prime defensive Wilt. You're the only one who likes to claim otherwise because of the massive beating.



Stop writing out of you ass, all these excuses about Wilt's injuries are laughable. The guy played 42+ minutes in all of his pro seasons and someone who's busted up can't do so.



Haha, that's laughable.
You forgot to mention that he absolutely slaughtered Wilt in that series. Kareem outscored Wilt with 23 points per game in that series, he outassisted him and the difference in rebounds was a small one. Kareem also shot the ball with a higher FG% so using FG% is like punching yourself in your face because Wilt shot with worse FG%, FT% and he averaged 23 points less... per game.





I love how you cherry pick.

Kareem scored 37 points on Wilt twice during that season and how you just jump from one season 'til another just so it won't look bad.. :facepalm

Cherry-picking, huh?

I mentioned that a PRIME Chamberlain just annihilated many of the SAME centers that a PRIME Kareem would face just a few years later, and to MUCH greater extent. And what do you bring up? An OLD Wilt, on a SURGICALLY-REPAIRED knee, who absolutely reduced a Kareem, at his PEAK, to WAY below his career normal shooting.

Of course, you didn't bring up their one h2h, which was still not even a PRIME Chamberlain, in which Wilt easily outscored, outrebounded, out-assisted, outblocked, and heavily outshot KAJ. Why?

Nor the fact that Wilt, only a year removed from major knee surgery, faced KAJ, in arguably his greatest season (70-71), TEN times, and nearly matched KAJ in scoring, easily outrebounded him, and outshot KAJ from the floor by a solid margin. Once again...not even close to a PRIME Chamberlain.

Or that Wilt, in his LAST TEN H2H games with KAJ, held Kareem to an overall FG% of .434, which included EIGHT games of under 50%, and FOUR of under 40%!!!!!!

As for a defensive prime Wilt, take a look at this...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dws_season.html

Hmmm...a mid-60's Wilt was miles ahead of a Chamberlain in his second-to-last NBA season.

Granted, a 71-72 Chamberlain would still have won DPOY had the award existed. And granted, a 71-72 Chamberlain did block a now confirmed 5.42 bpg, at age 35, which is only slightly behind the "official" record held by Mark Eaton at 5.56 bpg...

But a mid-60's Chamberlain just completely shut down his peers, and was blocking 8+ shots per game (and educated guesses have him as high as 10+.) In fact, SI recorded every one of Wilt's 23 blocks in a nationally televised on Christmas day in 1968...which, of course, just blows away the "official" record of 17 held by Elmore Smith. And that game was probably not Wilt's high, either. There are estimated games of 30+.


And, just taking Wilt out of all of this...

what does this tell you about the players of Wilt's era, like Lanier, Gilmore, Hayes, and McAdoo? All of whom had MANY games in which they outplayed a PRIME KAJ. And yet we KNOW that an OLD Chamberlain was outplaying those guys, as well.

Or that KAJ played against Reed, Thurmond, Imhoff, Dierking, Fox, and Bellamy...and was nowhere near as dominant against them. (In fact, the reality was, Thurmond was, by far, the most suffocating center KAJ ever faced...and even a PRIME Chamberlain was just abusing a prime Nate.)

And KAJ never had the "luxury" of battling Russell, either. A Russell whom Chamberlain averaged a near 30-30 game against in his 143 career h2h's. And a PRIME Chamberlain who pounded Russell with FIVE games of 50+ (including one in a "must-win" playoff game), with a high game of 62 (on 27-45 shooting.) Or a PRIME Wilt who had 24 career games of 40+ against Russell, including 17 40-30 games.

Throw in Moses, who just manhandled a near-prime KAJ in the vast majority of their 40 career h2h's, and you can make a strong argument that the best centers in NBA history all played in the 60's, 70's, and early 80's.


And clearly, the best of them all, was a PRIME Chamberlain.

[sdot_thadon]

No, there won't ever be another Wilt. Too ahead of his time, too much of an athletic freak in an era unprepared for him. These days of political correctness would never allow so much ego to exist on the floor either. Any potential next Wilt would be murdered by this era's media and be painted as a headcase lol.

[LAZERUSS]

The world awaits another Wilt...

http://everything-pr.com/the-world-awaits-another-wilt-chamberlain-another-epic-hero/241398/

[LAZERUSS]

Chamberlain holds some 90 "official" NBA records, but the fact is, he probably holds HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS, of them. If you use "streaks" as an example, he probably has some 700+ games in a row of scoring records. And likely the same, if not more, in rebounding.

And while the uneducated here trash Chamberlain's post-season career, he played in 29 post-season series, and was probably the best center in nearly all of them, and arguably the best player on the floor in 25+. Not only that, but he was not only outplaying his opposing centers in the vast majority of those 29 series, he was downright slaughtering them in many of them.

And the "declining" Chamberlain averaged 32.8 ppg, 26.3 rpg, 4.5 apg, shot .515 from the field (in post-seasons that shot about .428, on average), as well as probably 8+ bpg...in his first six post-seasons (covering his first seven seasons)...COMBINED. This, coming in 52 games in his "scoring" prime, 30 of which were against Russell. And in those 52 games, he was outscored in TWO. Even into half of his playoff career, covering 80 games, he had outscored his opposing starting center in 73 of them.

Of course, in terms of rebounding, he was light years ahead of his peers. He was never outrebounded in ANY of his 29 post-season series, which included eight against Russell. And here again, he was just wiping the floor with his opposing centers in many of them.

And very few give him credit for his one-on-one, and team defense in the post-season either. He was routinely holding his opposing centers to somewhere around a 10% reduction in their FG%'s, which included Kareem and Bellamy. In fact, in his 29 post-season series, he allowed his opposing center to shoot 50%, TWICE. One of them was Zelmo Beaty in the '64 WDF's, in which Beaty averaged 14.3 ppg on .521 shooting (while Wilt averaged 38.6 ppg on .559 shooting against him), and the other was long-range shooting Jerry Lucas in the '72 Finals...when Lucas shot an even .500. However, after Lucas went 9-11 in the first half of game one in that series, he shot 37-81 the rest of the way (.457), in a series in which Chamberlain averaged 19.4 ppg, 23.2 rpg, and shot .600.

Players like Reed, Bellamy, and Kareem...none of them could sniff shooting .500 in a series against Wilt. And Wilt completely shut down players like Russell, Thurmond, and Kerr in their h2h's.

[millwad]

Jlauber, I'm amazed of the fact that you've been posting on boards for years but still you can't give a normal reply.

Everytime you're in a discussion you go all nuts and spam and hi-jack and essay up the threads with bogus.

Someone is probably deep inside your wife, Barbara, meanwhile you're essaying up ISH.

[Greg Oden 50]

No. Don't be ridiculous.

We've already seen another Wilt in terms of utter dominance, though. His name was Shaquille O'Neal.


wilt >>>>>>>>> shaq :no:

[Greg Oden 50]

The way I see Wilt is that he was just steps ahead of everybody in his Era. With the way how Athletic everyone is now, I really doubt he'll average the same numbers as he did back then. PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO LET GO. Face it, the game has evolved & there's a reason for it.

Shaq Or Hakeem.

shaq is not even better than jabbar :no:

[Greg Oden 50]

Lebron is better than Wilt Chambarlain in every facet of the game other than rebounding.
In his prime Wilt would be competing with KLOVE for rebounding title in this era but other than that he would be quite irrelevant

wilt is much more athletic than lebron ever dreamed :no:

[Greg Oden 50]

Easily a prime defensive Wilt. You're the only one who likes to claim otherwise because of the massive beating.



Stop writing out of you ass, all these excuses about Wilt's injuries are laughable. The guy played 42+ minutes in all of his pro seasons and someone who's busted up can't do so.



Haha, that's laughable.
You forgot to mention that he absolutely slaughtered Wilt in that series. Kareem outscored Wilt with 23 points per game in that series, he outassisted him and the difference in rebounds was a small one. Kareem also shot the ball with a higher FG% so using FG% is like punching yourself in your face because Wilt shot with worse FG%, FT% and he averaged 23 points less... per game.





I love how you cherry pick.

Kareem scored 37 points on Wilt twice during that season and how you just jump from one season 'til another just so it won't look bad.. :facepalm

how old is wilt,how old is kareem :roll:

[cos88]

wilt is much more athletic than lebron ever dreamed :no:

you posted in 3 threads on the first page, all posts about lebron on kobe vs jordan and wilt threads. also 8 or less words all of them. get a life you retard.

[Greg Oden 50]

you posted in 3 threads on the first page, all posts about lebron on kobe vs jordan and wilt threads. also 8 or less words all of them. get a life you retard.

u mad :lol