LeBron's physical decline(article inside)

[arifgokcen]

LeBron James vs. Father Time
August, 28, 2013
Aug 28
1:44
PM ET


As Charles Barkley is so fond of saying, Father Time is undefeated. It’s obviously true that age eventually beats the great athlete, but decline isn’t so linear. For a while, careers fall into a holding pattern, where learned skill compensates for diminishing athleticism.

The talent leaves the athlete’s body as he learns how best to use his talent. As the game slows down, the body slows down too. It's a race. Sometimes, his diminished quickness can even inspire a more versatile, unstoppable approach.

In 2010-11, Dirk Nowitzki wasn't nearly as mobile as he was a half-decade earlier. The younger Dirk was also statistically better during the regular season, often leveraging an overwhelming advantage against overmatched opponents. Dirk was incredible in his late 20s, but he wasn’t unguardable, and he met his Waterloo in the playoffs.

In his 30s, Dirk learned to master offense out of the high post. Though slower than in his prime, he gained a facility with passing out of double teams. Dirk wasn’t quite the individual offensive force we saw in 2006, but there was no way to shut down or even fluster the older gentleman. That’s why he hoisted the trophy long after many had written him off as perpetually cursed or soft.

We’ve seen a similar process play out with the guy who won titles after Dirk. LeBron James probably isn’t quite the athlete he was with the Cavs. These days, he more than compensates for what he’s lost with an improved outside shot and, when needed, a violent post game. I’d hazard that losing to Dirk in the 2011 NBA Finals helped inspire this growth.

To be clear, LeBron James, at age 28, is still one of the fastest, most powerful forces in sports. If his athleticism has waned, it didn’t wane enough to spare Jason Terry last season. This is a matter of degrees, a step here or there.

One thing I’ve noticed is that LeBron almost never dunks out of a half-court drive anymore. This used to be a common feature of his game. For example, this half-court drive situation accounts for 10 of the dunks in his top 20 dunks of 2008-09 YouTube compilation. Based on the play-by-play records from that season, there were likely more.

Kevin Garnett famously felt the wrath of LeBron’s half-court drive. So did Luol Deng and Tim Duncan. So too, did the Detroit Pistons.

I went through video of LeBron's 419 restricted-area baskets from last season, and found only six such plays. He did it in December against the Magic, twice in January against the Bulls and Lakers, thrice in March against the Bucks, 76ers, and Pacers. There were also three unassisted dunks when LeBron wasn't quite driving from the far out perimeter (Blazers, Lakers and Magic). In the playoffs, LeBron uncorked a nice perimeter driving dunk against Milwaukee, and we have the cool camera angle to prove it.

Again, these plays were once relatively commonplace. Subjectively, younger LeBron appears trimmer, quicker. He accelerates in the half court and semi-transition as though shoved by an invisible hurricane gust. The older version has ebbed on speed and gained on power.

LeBron doesn’t get to the foul line like he once did, but he still spends about as much time at the rim. A beautifully designed Heat offense finds him off cuts and in transition. He doesn’t have to generate his own offense like back when Larry Hughes was the second option. In 2012-13, more than half of LeBron’s buckets at the rim were assisted. In 2006-07, roughly one-third of such shots were assisted by teammates.

Credit the King for knowing how to expertly use his improved offensive help. If young LeBron bluntly imposed himself on the game, older LeBron has truly mastered it. The world’s greatest player just submitted his most efficient season. He shot an unprecedented 64 percent in February. If he lacks a bit of that old burst, nobody misses it yet.

Today's LeBron James is showing the effects of age. For now that doesn’t matter because improved skills and an improved situation have outpaced natural physical decline.

We’ll never see Hall of Famers like LeBron and Dirk combine what they learn over an entire career with what they can do at their absolute athletic peaks. Youth is wasted on the young, as it’s said. We’re fortunate to get the next best thing, to see the greats improve overall, in spite of what age steals.

Right now, Dirk is losing his battle with age. For now, LeBron is winning. -

İnteresting article and some interesting points about his dunks.

[kNicKz]

Isn't dirk like 35?

:biggums:

[hawke812]

İnteresting article and some interesting points about his dunks.

I predict he will have trouble defending bench players this season. He was barely able to defend anyone last season.

[arifgokcen]

Isn't dirk like 35?

:biggums:

yes so what


I predict he will have trouble defending bench players this season. He was barely able to defend anyone last season.
dude if you are gonna troll
Please troll elsewhere

[kNicKz]

yes so what




The article states that Lebron is winning the age war and dirk is losing, when dirk is 7 years older? No shit sherlock? How is that a fair assessment? We haven't seen Lebron at 35

[SamuraiSWISH]

This was obvious 3 years ago to start the 2010 - 2011 season. I called it. Anyone who watched enough of him saw the physical decline. He lost his first step, dexterity, limberness, lateral quickness, explosion, quickness and leaping ability off the dribble in the half court. I mean he had 8 years of NBA seasons on his legs then. It go a bit better in 2012, and 2013. But the decline was noticeable. It seems like now he needs picks, left and right to do what he does. Granted his skill set has slightly improved as well to off set it a bit.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Its all very true.

Im the same age as Lebron and though Im not the athlete he is nor has my body taken the pounding his has, I can already feel the diminish in my agility and explosion from when I was 20. Part of that too is that Ive become bulkier, just like Lebron, and almost all men as they age.

The physical prime really does not last very long. 28 still seems very young because people live longer these days. Biologically, 28 is absolutely past ones physical prime in terms of agility and quickness.

[Element]

Its all very true.

Im the same age as Lebron and though Im not the athlete he is nor has my body taken the pounding his has, I can already feel the diminish in my agility and explosion from when I was 20. Part of that too is that Ive become bulkier, just like Lebron, and almost all men as they age.

The physical prime really does not last very long. 28 still seems very young because people live longer these days. Biologically, 28 is absolutely past ones physical prime in terms of agility and quickness.

I'm guessing you've seen LeBron's dick up close and personal a lot of times, too.


Just like LeBron, of course.

[arifgokcen]

This was obvious 3 years ago to start the 2010 - 2011 season. I called it. Anyone who watched enough of him saw the physical decline. He lost his first step, dexterity, limberness, lateral quickness, explosion, quickness and leaping ability off the dribble in the half court. I mean he had 8 years of NBA seasons on his legs then. It go a bit better in 2012, and 2013. But the decline was noticeable. It seems like now he needs picks, left and right to do what he does. Granted his skill set has slightly improved as well to off set it a bit.


Slightly?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Slightly?
Not significantly.

Little bit better jumper, still no supreme confidence himself in his abilities with the shot.

And slightly better post game, still not yet impressive. Just smarter shot selection because he's afforded that with Wade and Bosh on the team.

[Young X]

It's 100% true. He doesn't have any where near the explosion off the dribble in the halfcourt that he used to have. Cleveland Bron was SCARY. Miami Bron was struggling to get past Boris Diaw.

[NBASTATMAN]

This was obvious 3 years ago to start the 2010 - 2011 season. I called it. Anyone who watched enough of him saw the physical decline. He lost his first step, dexterity, limberness, lateral quickness, explosion, quickness and leaping ability off the dribble in the half court. I mean he had 8 years of NBA seasons on his legs then. It go a bit better in 2012, and 2013. But the decline was noticeable. It seems like now he needs picks, left and right to do what he does. Granted his skill set has slightly improved as well to off set it a bit.


I also believe that the type of defense that Miami plays hurts their players . If they get a good defensive big to cut down on the need for Lebron and Wade to be everywhere on the floor than they both will benefit. By the end of the season both Lebron and Wade had slowed down quite a bit from earlier in the season.. The last three seasons have slowed both of them down. If they had a defensive anchor than Lebron's legs would still have some lift in them at the end of the season. But it was apparent he was running on fumes by the finals... JUST MY OPINION:rockon:

[Element]

Slightly?

Yeah, slightly.

His jump shot hasn't really improved to the point where it's worth mentioning the improvement. His post game has, but it's still elementary and unreliable as a primary weapon.

When something betrays you in the playoffs every year of your career it's not an exception anymore. His "improved jumpshot" and "improved post game" ALWAYS betrayed him come playoff time in Miami.

His RS numbers shooting J's were great last year, but he really cherry picked them and you all know it. When defenses tighten up, the game slows down and transition looks aren't as readily available, making the floor less spread, it forces you to take more jumpers outside of when and where you feel it's comfortable to shoot one. Spurs and Bulls series proved it (he was hitting them vs Indy no doubt though).

This is the reason why Kobe, Melo and Durant are consistent with their percentages in the playoffs, because they don't cherry pick (well KD does but not to Bron's extent). People always pull the percentages argument when comparing Kobe and Bron's jumpshots to prove they're not that far apart, but the playoff percentages are very telling.

Mid-range percentages pulled from NBA.com:

Kobe

06: 42.1%
07: 38.8%
08: 43.6%
09: 45.3%
10: 45.1%
11: 41.9% (Injured)
12: 43.1%
13: N/A

LeBron

06: 29.1%
07: 31.8%
08: 28.1%
09: 47.4%
10: 38.3%
11: 37.4%
12: 35.9%
13: 37.2%

So LeBron has one fluke run, and loses every other year. To any fuggin stans, there's no way he's even a comparable jump shooter.

Kobe saw his shooting percentages rise across the board every playoffs from 06-12. LeBron saw a decline. Talk about cherry picking:no:

[#number6ix#]

He has too much weight on his frame... He use to be a speed player in the begin then in 2008-2010 he was speed and power now he's more power now but he is still fast as anyone running the break

[alexd]

I don t think he declined that much as the articles wants us to believe.don t forget that he took weight and put on mass so he can post up.you cna t run the same as you did if you weight like 30-40 lbs more.at cle he had a sf body now he s more of a pf with the speed of sf which is incredible.he plays smarter.those dunks are good and gets you hyped but in the end its just 2 points.why waste so much energy on 1 play if you can have the same result with a lay up?he ll be like jordan.he ll be past his physical prime but still be athletic enough to be affective and on par with most players in the league.just not athletic to do all this dunking etc all the time which is fine if you ask me

[Trollsmasher]

So he isn't going full Blake Griffin by not jumping 40 inches in the air on every single play and colliding with defenders, because the ball has to be dunked?

Good for his knees I would say.

[mikek85]

Yeah, slightly.

His jump shot hasn't really improved to the point where it's worth mentioning the improvement. His post game has, but it's still elementary and unreliable as a primary weapon.

When something betrays you in the playoffs every year of your career it's not an exception anymore. His "improved jumpshot" and "improved post game" ALWAYS betrayed him come playoff time in Miami.

His RS numbers shooting J's were great last year, but he really cherry picked them and you all know it. When defenses tighten up, the game slows down and transition looks aren't as readily available, making the floor less spread, it forces you to take more jumpers outside of when and where you feel it's comfortable to shoot one. Spurs and Bulls series proved it (he was hitting them vs Indy no doubt though).

This is the reason why Kobe, Melo and Durant are consistent with their percentages in the playoffs, because they don't cherry pick (well KD does but not to Bron's extent). People always pull the percentages argument when comparing Kobe and Bron's jumpshots to prove they're not that far apart, but the playoff percentages are very telling.

Mid-range percentages pulled from NBA.com:

Kobe

06: 42.1%
07: 38.8%
08: 43.6%
09: 45.3%
10: 45.1%
11: 41.9% (Injured)
12: 43.1%
13: N/A

LeBron

06: 29.1%
07: 31.8%
08: 28.1%
09: 47.4%
10: 38.3%
11: 37.4%
12: 35.9%
13: 37.2%

So LeBron has one fluke run, and loses every other year. To any fuggin stans, there's no way he's even a comparable jump shooter.

Kobe saw his shooting percentages rise across the board every playoffs from 06-12. LeBron saw a decline. Talk about cherry picking:no:

Did you HAVE to bring Kobe into this? Any thread with Lebron, the Kobe ******gers come out.:hammerhead:

[Element]

Did you HAVE to bring Kobe into this? Any thread with Lebron, the Kobe ******gers come out.:hammerhead:

This thread is about his lost athleticism and how a newfound improvement in his skills apparently compensated for it

Well, his jump shot went from super awful to just awful. Same story every year: His J has improved! Playoff time, he can't pick em as selectively, the percentages drop off a cliff.

He's the greatest player in the world and a top 12 all time player at least but it's not because of his great skill set or anything. The only skills that he which are really are his passing and court vision. His touch around the rim and his instincts there are elite, too. Even with his noticeable decline in athleticism he's still the best combination of size strength and athletic ability in the league by far.

His shooting, any category of it, is awful to above average. His ball handling is good. His off-ball game mediocre at best. His post up skills are elementary.

[Rose'sACL]

it is about being a smarter player. He is smarter now. Cleveland lebron with brain of 2013 lebron would be too unfair for rest of the league but he got smarter only as he got slower.
He still drives to basket better than anyone even though he doesn't dunk every time which is good for his legs.
He sometimes doesn't dunk in big games even when he can which clearly shows that either his coaching staff, trainer or he himself knows that dunking is not good for body. I think he should only dunk when it is the only option.

[sdot_thadon]

I dunno, I'm not sure if the decline is overstated or not, he stopped dunking as much before he left Cleveland. I personally thought it was a bit of self preservation. His explosion is not as evident as it once was, but he is still pretty fast on the break. He's already begun the necessary adjustments to his game before his body demands them, ahead of the curve somewhat.

I'd also say he has improved his game more than slightly. There's been a theme of steady and constant improvement from season to season throughout his career. He's added things or improved an aspect of his game nearly each summer. He's always been a streaky shooter so I don't see why it'd be such a shock to see his percentages fluctuate. His 3 point stroke has seen a steady improvement over the last few years as well.

Edit**

it is about being a smarter player. He is smarter now. Cleveland lebron with brain of 2013 lebron would be too unfair for rest of the league but he got smarter only as he got slower.
He still drives to basket better than anyone even though he doesn't dunk every time which is good for his legs.
He sometimes doesn't dunk in big games even when he can which clearly shows that either his coaching staff, trainer or he himself knows that dunking is not good for body. I think he should only dunk when it is the only option.

Definitely this.

[raprap]

good read. thanks op :cheers:

[OhNoTimNoSho]

Still by far the best player in the NBA.


So what.

[Spaulding]

Good read but sadly told us things we already knew.

[Lebron23]

He's already a soon to be 11th year NBA Veteran. LBJ is still the best athlete in his position. I actually think he's going to have a much better performance next season because he didn't play any competitive basketball in the off season.

[Fresh Kid]

Still by far the best player in the NBA.


So what.
I disagree:D

[Fresh Kid]

Imagine Lebron's hairline decline at 35:oldlol:

[Papaya Petee]

Yet he's still easily the best player in the NBA, and averaged 27 PPG on 56% FG and 40% 3 Point? How the **** in the world is that declining. The guy was still driving to the rim at will finishing over everyone.

[red1]

Yet he's still easily the best player in the NBA, and averaged 27 PPG on 56% FG and 40% 3 Point? How the **** in the world is that declining. The guy was still driving to the rim at will finishing over everyone.
His athleticism fell off quite a bit actually. Look how hard it is for him to blow by people in the halfcourt. Sure he is very agile and smooth for a bigman but a few years ago he used to be agile and smooth period.

[red1]

[QUOTE]One thing I

[Le Shaqtus]

He's still the best regardless, I can't see LeBron being dethroned as the best player in the league until about 34, I don't see his post game improving beyond what it is so that's about where his power will last.

Probably end up passing the torch to Durant.

[plowking]

This was obvious 3 years ago to start the 2010 - 2011 season. I called it. Anyone who watched enough of him saw the physical decline. He lost his first step, dexterity, limberness, lateral quickness, explosion, quickness and leaping ability off the dribble in the half court. I mean he had 8 years of NBA seasons on his legs then. It go a bit better in 2012, and 2013. But the decline was noticeable. It seems like now he needs picks, left and right to do what he does. Granted his skill set has slightly improved as well to off set it a bit.

If you watch the Heat and know the game as well as you like to harp on, then you'd know the picks at the top of the key are a part of the Heat's design on offense. We've been doing it since Wade's second year in the league.

You haven't got a clue.

[plowking]

This was obvious 3 years ago to start the 2010 - 2011 season. I called it. Anyone who watched enough of him saw the physical decline. He lost his first step, dexterity, limberness, lateral quickness, explosion, quickness and leaping ability off the dribble in the half court. I mean he had 8 years of NBA seasons on his legs then. It go a bit better in 2012, and 2013. But the decline was noticeable. It seems like now he needs picks, left and right to do what he does. Granted his skill set has slightly improved as well to off set it a bit.

If you watch the Heat and know the game as well as you like to harp on, then you'd know the picks at the top of the key are a part of the Heat's design on offense. We've been doing it since Wade's second year in the league.

You haven't got a clue.

[secund2nun]

The physical decline is overstated. It is marginal especially when considering body mass. If Lebron were to drop 25 pounds and go down to 240 he would be more athletic than he is now. Also he is still super athletic he just plays smarter and conserves energy and his body.

On a side note- the world needs to go raw. A lot of this "aging" is just premature aging caused by poisoning from cooked food, GMOs, and chemical preservatives.

[SacJB Shady]

Lebron may be middle age and on the downhill, but at least he is still not quite as old as Nash. I think he has at least a solid year or two left if he trains right and stays healthy. Look at Hill, he lasted with the proper training.

What is Lebron, 34? And Eminem still looks younger than him at age 40

[OhNoTimNoSho]

I disagree:D
Cool.

You're either a tool or dumb.





Lebron doesn't dunk in the halfcourt as much anymore and doesn't run as fast in the open floor. Superficially,hes declined. Realistically, hes better than ever.

[SacJB Shady]

Cool.

You're either a tool or dumb.





Lebron doesn't dunk in the halfcourt as much anymore and doesn't run as fast in the open floor. Superficially,hes declined. Realistically, hes better than ever.


It's father time. Lebron's best days are behind him.

[Frozen1]

Lebron was much lighter in cleveland.

He has been bulking since he went to miami, and i think that affects his athleticism.

At one point in the next years, he will have to choose if he wants to lose weight to continue to be athletic, or if he wants to bulk even more to play more like a power forward.

[fpliii]

Not a LeBron guy, but here's a follow-up from a poster on another board:

"I would agree with that article if this was 2011 or 2012, but he's looked much better physically in these last two seasons. I don't think Driving Dunks would be a singular factor to point to for that though, which is why that article was a bit silly.

Driving Dunks (by NBA.com)

14 - 7/8 (.32/G)
13 - 20/20 (.26/G)
12 - 16/17 (.27/G)
11 - 27/27 (.34/G)
10 - 22/22 (.29/G)
09 - 20/20 (.25/G)
08 - 24/24 (.32/G)
07 - 36/36 (.46/G)
06 - 26/27 (.34/G)

Yeah, I don't think there's anything to make of that data. His worst year physically (2011) contains the 2nd most frequent Driving Dunks, while his best (2009) contains the least frequent."

[Hoopz2332]

still an athletic beast in 2016:pimp:

https://cdn-ssl.newsledge.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/lebron-james-jesse-garrabrant-835x557.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cNNAl8r.gif

[Ca$H]

still an athletic beast in 2016:pimp:

http://media.nbcbayarea.com/images/652*367/GettyImages-538910720-lebron-awesome-play.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cNNAl8r.gif

Too bad the NBA doesn't use USADA for their drug testing.

[Hoopz2332]

Too bad the NBA doesn't use USADA for their drug testing.


LeBron James Off the Backboard Dunk | Cavaliers vs Lakers | March 10, 2016 | NBA 2015-16 Season

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXd1EzUX4Ls

[Trollsmasher]

http://share.gifyoutube.com/y7rpdj.gif

[plowking]

LeBron James Off the Backboard Dunk | Cavaliers vs Lakers | March 10, 2016 | NBA 2015-16 Season

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXd1EzUX4Ls

That was such a bad pass. :oldlol:

[arifgokcen]

Lol how on earth did u manage to find this thread

[Hoopz2332]

That was such a bad pass. :oldlol:

yeah lol..lebron had to extend for it because the pass was so bad

JR Smith Lobs it Off the Backboard to LeBron James for the Jam!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLxbeVbvP3M

he needs to watch wade to learn how to get it right

Lebron James 2 RIDICULOUS alley-oop dunks on the Lakers (2013.12.25)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCwHRCS3_mc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlYlCQziZPM

both are left handed alleys:biggums:

[plowking]

yeah lol..lebron had to extend for it because the pass was so bad

JR Smith Lobs it Off the Backboard to LeBron James for the Jam!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLxbeVbvP3M

he needs to watch wade to learn how to get it right

Lebron James 2 RIDICULOUS alley-oop dunks on the Lakers (2013.12.25)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCwHRCS3_mc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlYlCQziZPM

both are left handed alleys:biggums:

Those two alleys are probably two of my favourite plays from Bron's time with the Heat. That game in general was absolutely nutty with great plays. Bosh had a few great pick and roll dunks too.

[bizil]

When it comes to Magic, Bird, and Bron, I ALWAYS put them in their own category in terms of perimeter players. For starters, ALL THREE could dominate their respecitve postions with SIZE AND SKILL! Secondly, their IQ on the court was OFF THE CHART! All three could dominate SCORING AND PASSING in an epic manner. And third, all three could ALWAYS move to the PF position at will when needed.

So when they get older, they could always move to the PF. Bird in his FINAL SEASON on bad back averaged 20.2 points, 9.6 boards, and 6.8 dimes playing huge minutes at PF. I realize he ONLY played 45 games that year. BUT on a chronically bad back, he still managed those numbers over the majority of a season.

Magic in his last season averaged 14.6 points, 5.7 boards, and 6.9 dimes after a five year layoff at 36 years old. And he was the 6th man ACTUALLY taking a backseat to let the young guys do their thing. EVEN at that point, Magic was still likely the Lakers best player.

So with Bron, who is a freak athlete with great durablity, should age AT LEAST as good as Bird and Magic. And barring a serious injury, likely better. He could always move to the PF like Magic and Bird if he had to. Or he could stay at the SF and play more of a Pippen secondary scorer role if needed.

Hell, u could even move Bron to PG and let him play a Magic pure PG kind of role. And let a SG who is capable defend the PG if needed. Bron's physical attributes are UNPARALLED in NBA history. His versatility is on that same level. So BARRING a serious injury, Bron will STILL BE GREAT even if he's NO LONGER a freak athlete. In these cases, Im talking Bron at 35 years old and a steep kind of decline. Because best case scenario EVEN AT 35, he could be an MVP type player like MJ and Mailman.

[Lebron23]

The article states that Lebron is winning the age war and dirk is losing, when dirk is 7 years older? No shit sherlock? How is that a fair assessment? We haven't seen Lebron at 35

7 years later. Lebron is still a top 2 player in the nba at aged 35.

[Lebron23]

When it comes to Magic, Bird, and Bron, I ALWAYS put them in their own category in terms of perimeter players. For starters, ALL THREE could dominate their respecitve postions with SIZE AND SKILL! Secondly, their IQ on the court was OFF THE CHART! All three could dominate SCORING AND PASSING in an epic manner. And third, all three could ALWAYS move to the PF position at will when needed.

So when they get older, they could always move to the PF. Bird in his FINAL SEASON on bad back averaged 20.2 points, 9.6 boards, and 6.8 dimes playing huge minutes at PF. I realize he ONLY played 45 games that year. BUT on a chronically bad back, he still managed those numbers over the majority of a season.

Magic in his last season averaged 14.6 points, 5.7 boards, and 6.9 dimes after a five year layoff at 36 years old. And he was the 6th man ACTUALLY taking a backseat to let the young guys do their thing. EVEN at that point, Magic was still likely the Lakers best player.

So with Bron, who is a freak athlete with great durablity, should age AT LEAST as good as Bird and Magic. And barring a serious injury, likely better. He could always move to the PF like Magic and Bird if he had to. Or he could stay at the SF and play more of a Pippen secondary scorer role if needed.

Hell, u could even move Bron to PG and let him play a Magic pure PG kind of role. And let a SG who is capable defend the PG if needed. Bron's physical attributes are UNPARALLED in NBA history. His versatility is on that same level. So BARRING a serious injury, Bron will STILL BE GREAT even if he's NO LONGER a freak athlete. In these cases, Im talking Bron at 35 years old and a steep kind of decline. Because best case scenario EVEN AT 35, he could be an MVP type player like MJ and Mailman.

Solid prediction bro. LeBron arguably have one of the best season for a 17 years nba veteran.