Who peaked the highest between Bryant, Wade, and T-Mac?

[Inferno]

Kobe's 2005-2006 season: 35 points / 5 rebounds / 4.5 assists / 2 steals / 0.4 blocks on 45/35/85 shooting.

Wade's 2008-2009 season: 30 points / 5 rebounds / 7.5 assists / 2 steals / 1 block on 49/32/77 shooting.

T-Mac's 2002-2003 season: 32 points / 6.5 rebounds / 5.5 assists / 1.6 steals / 1 block on 46/39/79 shooting.

Which SG peaked the highest?

[Suguru101]

Kobe's 2005-2006 season: 35 points / 5 rebounds / 4.5 assists / 2 steals / 0.4 blocks on 45/35/85 shooting.

Wade's 2008-2009 season: 30 points / 5 rebounds / 7.5 assists / 2 steals / 1 block on 49/32/77 shooting.

T-Mac's 2002-2003 season: 32 points / 6.5 rebounds / 5.5 assists / 1.6 steals / 1 block on 46/39/79 shooting.

Which SG peaked the highest?

Kobe Bryant was ahead of those players on the defensive end, and his offensive skillset was the best rounded of of all. So Kobe.

[cos88]

i like my player's peak to be surrounded by a good record and a great playoff run. also i want that player not to be a chucker so the corect answer here is 2006 wade. playoff dominance, finals dominance, one of the best finals performances off all time, a thing the other guys could not do.

[KG215]

Kobe Bryant was ahead of those players on the defensive end, and his offensive skillset was the best rounded of of all. So Kobe.
If you consider 2006 Kobe's peak, he was not very good defensively that year, and certainly not better defensively than 2009 Wade. I mean Kobe not being very good defensively in 2006 is somewhat understandable due to the huge load he had to carry offensively night in and night out.

[Heavincent]

1. Kobe
2. Wade/T-Mac (can't decide)

[bdreason]

I think Wade actually had the highest peak, but it didn't last long.

[Smoke117]

Kobe Bryant was ahead of those players on the defensive end, and his offensive skillset was the best rounded of of all. So Kobe.

Yeah...no. Kobe didn't do shit defensively in 06. Wade 09 is the best of the bunch as far as scoring/playmaking/defense.

[no pun intended]

Gotta go with Wade on this one.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

2006 Wade was the highest peak out of those 3 players.

That 2006 season, with the amazing playoff run and NBA Finals performance, beats anything Kobe or T-Mac ever did.

[spiegel]

Tmac. He was incredible.

[no pun intended]

We should throw in Iverson into this conversation too.

[MetsPackers]

I was actually just thinking about this the other day

Give me 06 or 09 Wade over any version of Kobe

[Swaggin916]

Kobe Bryant was ahead of those players on the defensive end, and his offensive skillset was the best rounded of of all. So Kobe.

I would not say that Kobe is a better defensive player than Wade. At about the same level? Sure. But D Wade is one of the best defensive players I have ever seen.

I would say Wade overall though. His overall game plus his shot decision making wins for me. He has never been one to jack up retarded shots like Kobe and T-Mac...obv Kobe to a way more extreme degree. It's amazing to think T mac once shot 39% from 3 though.

[KNOW1EDGE]

We should throw in Iverson into this conversation too.

Allen Ezail Iverson 2005-2006 season

33ppg/7.4apg/3.2rpg/1.9spg

45%fg/32%3point/81%ft/43mpg

:bowdown:

[G-Funk]

kobe
wade
t-mac

[VIntageNOvel]

Lebron havent been mentioned yet?
you guys dissapoint me

1.Kobe
2.Wade
3.TMac
4.Lebron

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Wade, mainly because he peaked at the right time in 2006. Given the context of the situation that puts him ahead for me.
If were talking whole seasons its probably kobe or tmac although they are very close and wade isnt far off either.

[Jacks3]

Kobe
T-Mac
Wade

[Nash]

Wade, better efficiency and much better playmaking then the rest. Did all of this in a bad team.

[Jacks3]

03 T-Mac is actually the most efficient player of the three. Pretty easily, too.

[Johnny Jones]

03 T-Mac is actually the most efficient player of the three. Pretty easily, too.
and he was on a pretty bad team as well.

[f0und]

wade

what puts him over the top is he has something the other two never had. good bball iq.

[PJR]

Wade. Look at the numbers across the board. Wade's got both beat. And Wade was miles ahead of both defensively. Dude was playing insane help defense. 173 steals(finished 2nd in steals per game), and 106 blocks from a 6'4 shooting guard is bonkers. And to do that while still scoring 30 a game, and dishing out 7.5 assist, and grabbing 5 boards?

Having to carry the scoring load on a bad team, doesn't restrict you from making a consistent impact on the defensive end. Wade showed that. Wade finished top 3 in voting for Defensive player of the year in 2009 for Christ sake.


03 T-Mac is actually the most efficient player of the three. Pretty easily, too.


Wade's FG%, TS%, and EFG% are all better. #factsonly.

[Doranku]

'06 Kobe
'01 Kobe
'08 Kobe
'03 TMac
'09 Wade
'03 Kobe

:oldlol: @ PJR's hyperbole-filled post. N!gga sounds like the Jordan stans on this forum. '01 and '08 Kobe were better defensively than Wade. lol @ Wade being "miles better". Learn the game, kid.

[tpols]

06-07 Kobe>09 Wade>>03 tmac

[Jacks3]

Wade's FG%, TS%, and EFG% are all better. #factsonly.
lol no. You can't use raw TS%. League average TS%/ORTG was much lower in in 2003 than 2009. We're talking the GOAT defensive era.

T-Mac was +4.4% relative to league average TS%.
Wade was at +3.1%.

T-Mac also had the much better turnover rate.

He was easily more efficient.

[kNicKz]

2006 Wade was the highest peak out of those 3 players.

That 2006 season, with the amazing playoff run and NBA Finals performance, beats anything Kobe or T-Mac ever did.

Shaq....

[allball]

Wade
Kobe
T-Mac

[Assassin85]

Tmac all day.

[Duncan21formvp]

The best way is either compare each with a bad team or when they had a good team. So Tmac 2003, Kobe 2006 and Wade 2009

or

Tmac 2007
Wade 2006
Kobe 2008

[EnoughSaid]

Sade's 2008-2009 season was the best for a SG since Jordan. He had to do everything for that team. His second best player was a rookie. Joel Anthony started for them until they got an injury-ridden Jermaine O'Neal. Wade, in terms of peak, was a better all around player, and defender. Kobe and T-Mac are better scorers, but Wade was better at everything else.

[Odinn]

Original thread.

[Jacks3]

No he wasn't. 03 T-Mac was easily more efficient, took better care of the ball, was a better rounder, a better shooter, and was the better play-maker/passer. 03 Kobe was slightly more efficient, the better shooter by far, better rebounder, better defender. lol @ "better at everything else". Delusional Wade stans.

[no pun intended]

Tmac all day.
Damn you posting is like Kobe getting a triple double.

[miles berg]

Wade, TMac, Kobe

That order

[red1]

I've seen them all and 09 wade is the one that impressed me the most. Kobe gets credit for avoiding injuries and having the most seasons playing at such a high level but when measuring their absolute best seasons they are all fairly close. These three are easily the best perimeter players since jordan

[Knoe Itawl]

That Wade season was the best for an sg since Jordan. And he had everything, as he was known to be crazy clutch too. That's what sucks for Wade fans is that the mixture of bad injuries/luck prevents him from having a better career (accolades wise) than a Bryant, but we know he's the better player at his best.

[Heavincent]

That Wade season was the best for an sg since Jordan. And he had everything, as he was known to be crazy clutch too. That's what sucks for Wade fans is that the mixture of bad injuries/luck prevents him from having a better career (accolades wise) than a Bryant, but we know he's the better player at his best.

:oldlol:

[Knoe Itawl]

:oldlol:

You clowns are so pathetic. You've got your opinion, I've got mine. Newsflash: only your fellow dikkriders act like it's some great blasphemy to put Wade in the same category as Bryant. A lot of pretty knowledgeable basketball fans do so. So miss me with the emoticon nonsense.

http://gyazo.com/ec0ab81466a4e8ca32c00013b54ae48b.png

Everyone knows you guys are the worst.

[Heavincent]

You clowns are so pathetic. You've got your opinion, I've got mine. Newsflash: only your fellow dikkriders act like it's some great blasphemy to put Wade in the same category as Bryant. A lot of pretty knowledgeable basketball fans do so. So miss me with the emoticon nonsense.

http://gyazo.com/ec0ab81466a4e8ca32c00013b54ae48b.png

Everyone knows you guys are the worst.

Okay Mr "Kobe will never win without Shaq".

[VIntageNOvel]

Okay Mr "Kobe will never win without Shaq".

or gasol, or odom, or phil or adam morrisson, or luke walton or or or :lol

[SamuraiSWISH]

Trick question, 2003 McGrady, 2006 Kobe, and 2009 Wade are all the exact same. Terrible team, no legit second option, amazing regular season production and performances, disappointing playoffs ... couldn't advance past the first round. So essentially, they're all tied.

[HardwoodLegend]

Trick question, 2003 McGrady, 2006 Kobe, and 2009 Wade are all the exact same. Terrible team, no legit second option, amazing regular season production and performances, disappointing playoffs ... couldn't advance past the first round. So essentially, they're all tied.

Correct, but 2003 T-Mac and 2006 Kobe's teams both blew 3-1 series leads. 2009 Wade didn't. 2009 Wade wins.

[DaHeezy]

I wonder how many people say Wade because they do not want to give Kobe any recognition?

[dyna]

1) Wade
2) Kobe/T mac

[SamuraiSWISH]

Correct, but 2003 T-Mac and 2006 Kobe's teams both blew 3-1 series leads. 2009 Wade didn't. 2009 Wade wins.
Actually if you want to get down to semantics like that then it would go like this:

1) T-Mac (2003)
2) Kobe (2006)
3) Wade (2009)

Wade played the worst out of the three in the playoffs, believe he was hurt or spent from the regular season, and he couldn't lead his team to at least 3 wins. McGrady individually played the best of the three in comparison in these playoffs. Then Kobe, then Wade.

[longtime lurker]

Kobe
Wade
Mcgrady

All amazing seasons but Kobe and Wade were putting up some record breaking and historical seasons.

[Xiao Yao You]

Wade

[Papaya Petee]

Actually if you want to get down to semantics like that then it would go like this:

1) T-Mac (2003)
2) Kobe (2006)
3) Wade (2009)

Wade played the worst out of the three in the playoffs, believe he was hurt or spent from the regular season, and he couldn't lead his team to at least 3 wins. McGrady individually played the best of the three in comparison in these playoffs. Then Kobe, then Wade.
:roll: :roll: Atlanta beat Miami 4-3 in that series. Wade was the only player decent for Miami in that series, and Jermaine O'Neal missed games 6 and 7 cause of a concussion.

1.)Wade
2.)T-Mac
3.)Kobe

[NumberSix]

1. Wade
2. Kobe
3. T-Mac

[Electric Slide]

1. Wade
2. Kobe
3. T-Mac
This

It's probably in reverse if all you care about is offense though.

[Mass Debator]

Kobe's 2005-2006 season: 35 points / 5 rebounds / 4.5 assists / 2 steals / 0.4 blocks on 45/35/85 shooting.

Wade's 2008-2009 season: 30 points / 5 rebounds / 7.5 assists / 2 steals / 1 block on 49/32/77 shooting.

T-Mac's 2002-2003 season: 32 points / 6.5 rebounds / 5.5 assists / 1.6 steals / 1 block on 46/39/79 shooting.

Which SG peaked the highest?
Umm, your rounding gives the impression that you're carrying on a hidden agenda.

Kobe recorded 1.8 steals per game and Wade at 2.2. That's close to 40 steals difference if they both played 82 games.

Kobe recorded 0.4 blocks and Wade at 1.3. T-Mac got a 0.8.

Kobe shot 45% while T-Mac shot 45.7%. Wade shot 49.1%. Wade scored 30.2 points on 22 shots. Kobe took 5 more shots to score 5 more points than Wade and T-Mac took 2 more shots to score 2 more points.

Statistically, I believe Wade got them beat peak-season-wise. Impact, I still say the same. Top 5 seasons, Kobe has it. McGrady was never at the top of the world like these guys but game-to-game wise, he was just as good or better on certain days.

[Owl]

Umm, your rounding gives the impression that you're carrying on a hidden agenda.

Kobe recorded 1.8 steals per game and Wade at 2.2. That's close to 40 steals difference if they both played 82 games.

Kobe recorded 0.4 blocks and Wade at 1.3. T-Mac got a 0.8.

Kobe shot 45% while T-Mac shot 45.7%. Wade shot 49.1%. Wade scored 30.2 points on 22 shots. Kobe took 5 more shots to score 5 more points than Wade and T-Mac took 2 more shots to score 2 more points.

Statistically, I believe Wade got them beat peak-season-wise. Impact, I still say the same. Top 5 seasons, Kobe has it. McGrady was never at the top of the world like these guys but game-to-game wise, he was just as good or better on certain days.
Don't know whether agenda driven but definitely dubious rounding. Turnovers also absent which is McGrady's greatest advantage.

[Scholar]

I'd rank them as:
1. Wade
2. Kobe
3. T-Mac

Wade just had extremely impressive numbers. Not only was he scoring a shit ton of points, but he also had practically double-doubles every night with his assists+scoring. He was the epitome of an elite scorer who doubled as a ball distributor that season.

I enjoyed Kobe's season more on an individual level. He averaged 40 PPG for an entire month (Jan 2006), which is nearly unheard of! But he also shot the Lakers out of many games. I used to get frustrated when Kobe would take stupid ass contested shots while a guy like Sasha Vujacic was open for 3, Odom was cutting to the basket or.. Shit, even Kwame Brown's no-hands-having self was left wide open under the basket.

T-Mac's season is almost a blur to me. I was 13 at the time and my only focus was on the Kobe-Shaq Lakers. As I grew older and came to appreciate non-Lakers, I realized his season was marvelous, but it's not as great as Wade & Kobe's, IMO.

[noob cake]

Career, easily Kobe > Wade > TMac

Peak, TMac > Wade > Kobe. Give TMac Shaq or LeBron, let's see how many rings he wins.

[aj1987]

Give TMac Shaq or LeBron, let's see how many rings he wins.
Kobe won without Shaq and Wade won with a washed up Shaq. T-Mac had Yao.
The guy actually had pretty decent teams in '05, '07, '00.

[Fallen Angel]

Did someone just say Tracy had a decent team in 05?

loloolololol

Yao
Ryan Bowen
David Wesley
Bob Sura

lmao

[aj1987]

Did someone just say Tracy had a decent team in 05?

loloolololol

Yao
Ryan Bowen
David Wesley
Bob Sura

lmao
He had Yao averaging 21/8/3 on 65% in the playoffs.

[Fallen Angel]

He had Yao averaging 21/8/3 on 65% in the playoffs.

He also averaged less minutes than David Wesley. There's a reason for that.

[Jacks3]

T-Mac: 7th best offense
Kobe: 7th best offense

Wade: 22nd ranked offense

lololololol.

1. Kobe
2. T-Mac

3. D-Whistle.

[DMAVS41]

T-Mac: 7th best offense
Kobe: 7th best offense

Wade: 22nd ranked offense

lololololol.

1. Kobe
2. T-Mac

3. D-Whistle.

Please answer the question in the Bill Simmons on T-Mac thread I posed for you...

[kNicKz]

Kobe
Wade
T-Mac

[Akhenaten]

I'd say Wade regular season (09) and postseason (06)

I'd take Wade's 09 regular season over Kobe's 06 regular season for 2 reasons.

1. Wade's best scoring season coincided with his best playmaking, shooting and defensive season. He put it all together playing at a extremely high level in all facets of the game.

Kobe focused solely on scoring in 06, and still only scored 5 more points on 5 more shots including 7 3pA per game. This is with more help than Wade had (Kobe had much better second option and better defense/rebounding frontcourt and better shooters IMO), also it was a free for all scoring the basketball in 06, 3 guys avg 30, another 29 ppg, about 50 guys avg 25 ppg.

2. I'll also take Wade's hottest stretch over Kobe's hottest stretch from those seasons:

Kobe's Jan (15 consecutive gms): 43/6/4 47% FG, 40% 3pFG, 90% FT, 2stls, 4TO's, 30 FGA

Wade's 2/10-3/14 (15 consecutive games): 36/6/10 54% FG, 39% 3pFG, 85% FT, 3stls, 1blk, 4TO's, 24 FGA

[BuGzBuNNy]

A few posts from Shackattack has the whole message board believing Kobe didn't play defense in 2006 :oldlol: Don't most people consider him at his best defensively in the early 2000s? Yet somehow he forgot how to in 06 and then played better D again in 08? :oldlol: I can see it though, from what I can recall this was the season where he basically coined the word "closer". His team was just more in control so defense actually started to mean something.

The answer is Kobe though, easily. When he was at his best it was understood that the Lakers would always come back. In my history of watching sports there's never been anything more predictable than a Lakers come back. When the 4th quarter came around it was universally understood that Kobe would at some point put the Lakers ahead or at least give the other team a scare. Wade was never on that level.

[aj1987]

He also averaged less minutes than David Wesley. There's a reason for that.
Foul trouble? He fouled out in 1 game and had 5 in 2 others. In game 7, he played 40+ minutes, even though it was pretty much a blowout from the 1st quarter.


Anyways, back to the thread:
1.a. Dwyane Wade
1.b. Kobe Bryant
2. Tracy Mcgrady

[Akhenaten]

A few posts from Shackattack has the whole message board believing Kobe didn't play defense in 2006 :oldlol: Don't most people consider him at his best defensively in the early 2000s? Yet somehow he forgot how to in 06 and then played better D again in 08?

No, he just had much more help in 08 so he could apportion his energy more evenly, he didn't have that luxury in 06.

Lakers had the 5th ranked D in 08 as opposed to the 15th in 06 and were 1st in rebounding after Gasol came on board as opposed to 7th in 06.

This is why I'd take Wade's 09, the Heat were 28th in rebounding, 11th in D, with rookie Beasley as the second option and Joel Anthony the starting centre.

As much of a load as Kobe had to carry in 06, Wade had to carry twice as much. Yet lead the league in scoring in a league that scored much less than in 06, shot near 50%, avg near 8 asts AND finished 3rd in DPOY.

Wade's 09 season was mind-blowing.
For those saying he was on PED's, I wouldn't be shocked if he was, it seemed inhuman the stuff he did that year, the energy exerted.

[BuGzBuNNy]

No, he just had much more help in 08 so he could apportion his energy more evenly, he didn't have that luxury in 06.

Lakers had the 5th ranked D in 08 as opposed to the 15th in 06 and were 1st in rebounding after Gasol came on board as opposed to 7th in 06.

This is why I'd take Wade's 09, the Heat were 28th in rebounding, 11th in D, with rookie Beasley as the second option and Joel Anthony the starting centre.

As much of a load as Kobe had to carry in 06, Wade had to carry twice as much. Yet lead the league in scoring in a league that scored much less than in 06, shot near 50%, avg near 8 asts AND finished 3rd in DPOY.

Wade's 09 season was mind-blowing.
For those saying he was on PED's, I wouldn't be shocked if he was, it seemed inhuman the stuff he did that year, the energy exerted.I don't see it. Regardless though, both had bad support. And Idk when Kobe was at his best. But when he was he was better than Wade was in his. Even back in 09 I didn't consider Wade better at the time and almost no one calls that Kobe's best season...its always been Kobe 1st and Wade 2nd for best 2 guard. I just don't see much of an argument.

[STATUTORY]

joke ass thread, those boys ain't even in the same stratosphere as Kobe whether it's peak, prime, longevity, career, accolades etc

[Akhenaten]

I don't see it.

So you dont agree that 06 Odom >>>>> rookie Beaseley?

or that the 06 Lakers were 7th in rebounding as opposed to 28th for the 09 Heat?

[Jacks3]

A few posts from Shackattack has the whole message board believing Kobe didn't play defense in 2006 :oldlol: Don't most people consider him at his best defensively in the early 2000s? Yet somehow he forgot how to in 06 and then played better D again in 08? :oldlol: I can see it though, from what I can recall this was the season where he basically coined the word "closer". His team was just more in control so defense actually started to mean something.

The answer is Kobe though, easily. When he was at his best it was understood that the Lakers would always come back. In my history of watching sports there's never been anything more predictable than a Lakers come back. When the 4th quarter came around it was universally understood that Kobe would at some point put the Lakers ahead or at least give the other team a scare. Wade was never on that level.
:applause:

[Jacks3]

joke ass thread, those boys ain't even in the same stratosphere as Kobe whether it's peak, prime, longevity, career, accolades etc
True. Very true.

[SamuraiSWISH]

:roll: :roll: Atlanta beat Miami 4-3 in that series. Wade was the only player decent for Miami in that series, and Jermaine O'Neal missed games 6 and 7 cause of a concussion.
Chill, and sit down. Didn't mean to offend your Miami Heat fandom. I forgot how the 1st round shook out in retrospect, that's all.

I do know this, the 2009 Hawks were not as good as the 2003 Pistons or the 2006 Suns.

And I do remember Wade playing underwhelming considering how well he played in the regular season.

McGrady's 2003 had the worst supporting cast of the bunch, and he almost single handedly won them a series. With some very electric games. Kobe had a game with a game tying shot, and a game winner. Dropped 50 in game 6.

I can't recall Wade having any stand out or statement games in that first round series.

Ranking their playoff performances, I'd go like this:

1) McGrady
2) Kobe
3) Wade

Ranking their regular season performances, I'd go like this:

1) Wade
2) McGrady / Kobe

[PJR]

The answer is Kobe though, easily. When he was at his best it was understood that the Lakers would always come back. In my history of watching sports there's never been anything more predictable than a Lakers come back. When the 4th quarter came around it was universally understood that Kobe would at some point put the Lakers ahead or at least give the other team a scare. Wade was never on that level.



:roll: :roll:


One of the biggest myths that Bryant fanatics like to continually perpetuate is that Kobe is some sort of clutch god.

I've got news for ya. He's not.


ESPN Stats & Information's Alok Pattani dug through 15 years of NBA data (see table below) -- Bryant's entire career, regular season and playoffs -- and found that Bryant has attempted 115 shots in the final 24 seconds of a game in which the Lakers were tied or trailed by two or fewer points. He connected on 36, and missed 79 times.



http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

[Jacks3]

And yet his numbers (in his prime) in the last 5 minutes of close games are still easily better than Wade's. :oldlol:

[fpliii]

Wade
*gap*
Kobe
*bigger gap*
TMac

[Fallen Angel]

Foul trouble? He fouled out in 1 game and had 5 in 2 others. In game 7, he played 40+ minutes, even though it was pretty much a blowout from the 1st quarter.



LOL no, just no. I agree Yao was getting in foul trouble but you realize he averaged 30 m/game in the season, too, right?

If he was that good Van Gundy would have played him more. My point is Yao wasn't this dominant force in 2005, not yet. Wesley and Sura averaged more minutes than Yao in the regular season.

Listen, you can label McGrady as choke artist, mentally soft, easily shook or whatever...but lets not act like he had a good supporting cast. Never, only in 2007. That's it.

Again, in 2005 his playoff team consisted of:

Yao Ming
Ryan Bowen (Scott Padgett started a few games, too)
David Wesley
Bob Sura

These guys had heart and were gritty basketball players, but that's not what I'm looking at. Hustle can only take you so far, at the end of the day you need talent. Ryan Bowen? Scott Padgett? These guys don't make the roster for another team. I think both Wesley and Sura retired a few years after that series.

I don't doubt McGrady made some mistakes in the past and I personally think he could have some things a little different. I said "different", not "more", because he literally could not have done more for Houston. But to act like he had a good supporting cast? Nah. That's what bothers me. McGrady carried that 05 team, I've watched that playoff series countless of times. He was the best player on the court offensively and defensively. He guarded Nowitzki most of the time, and he did a damn good job at it, too.

That's what irks me. InsideHoops like to bash a guy who played his heart out on the court. From 2001-2008 McGrady was a joy to watch.

[Papaya Petee]

And I do remember Wade playing underwhelming considering how well he played in the regular season.

McGrady's 2003 had the worst supporting cast of the bunch, and he almost single handedly won them a series. With some very electric games. Kobe had a game with a game tying shot, and a game winner. Dropped 50 in game 6.

I can't recall Wade having any stand out or statement games in that first round series.
33 points in game 2 including a game sealing 3 pointer with under 2 minutes left which stole home court from Atlanta

He dropped 41 points and had 8 rebounds in 36 minutes in game 6 when the Heat were down 2-3 in the series. Wade had lower back problems all series.

His number for the series were 29 PPG 5 APG 4 RPG on 45% shooting. Which definitely wasn't up to par with his regular season, but it wasn't bad by any means.

[aj1987]

..
Can you please point me to the post where I was "bashing" T-Mac? I wasn't bashing T-Mac at all. Compared to the teams that Kobe ('06) and Wade ('09) had, the '05 team that T-Mac had was actually pretty decent.

[red1]

joke ass thread, those boys ain't even in the same stratosphere as Kobe whether it's peak, prime, longevity, career, accolades etc
Kobe is not as good as you think he is. When it comes to peak play, tmac and dwade are easily on his level

[Fallen Angel]

Can you please point me to the post where I was "bashing" T-Mac? I wasn't bashing T-Mac at all. Compared to the teams that Kobe ('06) and Wade ('09) had, the '05 team that T-Mac had was actually pretty decent.

That part was said to ISH in general not one poster in particular.

Compared to those other teams, McGrady did have a decent supporting cast. I don't see the point though. What did Kobe or Wade accomplish in those years? McGrady gets bashed because he didn't accomplish much. He was a hell of a player and has the stats to back it up. His playoffs stats are actually better. Kobe and Wade didn't accomplish much either. Anyway, I disagree with McGrady having a decent supporting cast in 05. Either way, you need something better than decent to beat literally the same team that won the western conference the following year.

[Sharmer]

MJ

[SamuraiSWISH]

MJ
Concur.

MJ '89

He too had lackluster supporting casts, amazing statistical regular seasons carrying a heavy burden and took his team to the Conference Finals and lost to the eventual champs. Much more impressive, IMO.

[Akhenaten]

Chill, and sit down. Didn't mean to offend your Miami Heat fandom. I forgot how the 1st round shook out in retrospect, that's all.

I agree.




I do know this, the 2009 Hawks were not as good as the 2003 Pistons or the 2006 Suns.

ehh, I'll give you the Pistons, 06 Suns are supremely overrated, they had Boris Diaw playing starting centre and were down 3-1 to a Lakers team with Kobe avg only 23 ppg on 44% shooting and 5TO's PER GAME!

Lamar avg through Gm 4: 21/12/4 51% FG and 2bpg

Lamar was flatout BEASTING, saying Kobe was underwhelming to this point would be a gross understatement. Odom avg 20/12/5 52% FG, 1blk gms 1-6 prior to Kobe quitting in game 7

Phoenix was 28th in point allowed...28th! Kobe avg over 35 ppg in this season and only avg 28 (24 before the 50 pt gm 6) vs the horrific Suns defense.

This is with Lamar BEASTING and even scrubs like Smush, Kwame and Luke playing well (mainly due to the Suns' trash D but still)



And I do remember Wade playing underwhelming considering how well he played in the regular season.

Wade avg 29/5/5 44% in that series avg 30/8/5 49% in the reg season
What happened was simple; in a series the Hawks were able to just blitz Wade with zero regard for any of the Heat's other players, this is a little more difficult in the reg season.

regular season basketball sometimes makes avg teams like the Suns look very good, playoffs exposes that. The Suns were 1 3pt shot away from being eliminated by Lamar Odom, Kobe and assorted bums, THEY WEREN'T THAT GOOD!


McGrady's 2003 had the worst supporting cast of the bunch, and he almost single handedly won them a series. With some very electric games.

09 Heat were just as bad, ditto for Wade on almost single handedly winning and having electric games. Also the Magic were EASILY a better cast in the reg season than the 09 Heat with Mike Miller and Grant Hill.

Mac had 2 superlative gms in that series, gms 1 and 2 he was avg 45 points on 57%, the next 5 games he avg 27 on 39%:rolleyes:

They won game 4 with him shooting 37%, Drew Gooden had 20/13, Armstrong had 18.

they were up 3-1 even after TMacs abysmal gm 4, then dropped 3 in a row with Mac going for 26 on 36%.

Stop it with the hyperbole and overhype.


Kobe had a game with a game tying shot, and a game winner. Dropped 50 in game 6.

I can't recall Wade having any stand out or statement games in that first round series.



Of course you cant, you are biased as hell.

33 and 7, 6/10 from 3 Gm 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuqjNC_naa8

41/5/5 Gm 6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1BSMxeWAIE

[HardwoodLegend]

Foul trouble? He fouled out in 1 game and had 5 in 2 others. In game 7, he played 40+ minutes, even though it was pretty much a blowout from the 1st quarter.

He had poor stamina. He was breathing heavily every time he was taken out and struggled to get his wind back.

The numbers he put up were decent, but they weren't enough if it was just going to be him and T-Mac doing all of the work. They weren't surrounded with any kind of consistent solid roleplaying. T-Mac and Yao both had fairly solid games in that Game 7 blow-out, but no one else showed up.

Sure Kobe won without Shaq, but he also had Pau and 6th Man of the Year caliber talent in Lamar Odom. That's two spots on the floor with effective contribution. T-Mac just had Yao who was sometimey and roleplayers that would disappear in any given game.

[HardwoodLegend]

they were up 3-1 even after TMacs abysmal gm 4, then dropped 3 in a row with Mac going for 26 on 36%.

Abysmal Game 4? Please don't act like anyone else was responsible for that win other than T-Mac. He also had 9 assists, 5 steals and only 3 turnovers. The poor shooting percentages were obviously due to the Pistons defense having free reign to pursue him even harder with that cast having no one who was to come through and have a big game.