2009 Wade was better than Kobe ever was [Archive] - Page 2 - Message Board Basketball Forum

WayOfWade

08-29-2015, 11:08 PM

2009 Kobe was considered better than Wade by many

2002-2003 and 2005-2006 Kobe > 2009 Wade
True, Kobe was a beast in both 2006 and 2009, but at least Statistically, 09' Wade has him beat both years.
06' Kobe: 35.4 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.5 APG, 1.8 SPG, .4 BPG, 45% FG
09' Kobe: 26.8 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 4.9 APG, 1.5 SPG, .5 BPG, 47% FG
09' Wade: 30.2 PPG, 7.5 RPG, 5.0 RPG, 2.2 SPG, 1.3 BPG, 49% FG
Obviously I didn't include all the stats, but among these general ones, Kobe beats Wade in only PPG one of the two years, and Wade has him beat in every other stat on the rest. Now Stats don't tell the whole story, but they do tell quite a bit.
I don't know about Kobe's defense though, I mean he did make the All-Defensive First team both of the years I put above, but a ton of people say he wasn't all that great. If someone had some advanced stats on defense, it would shed a lot of light on that.
As for me though, I'm going with Wade having the higher peak. Take that with a grain of Salt though, seeing as I am a huge Dwyane Wade Fan.

EDIT: Sorry I didn't mention Kobe's 03 season

GIF REACTION

08-29-2015, 11:09 PM

It's a D-Rob Hakeem comparison

GIF REACTION

08-29-2015, 11:09 PM

You can argue D-Rob has had the better peak season, but Hakeem is considered the better player

Wade's Rings

08-29-2015, 11:15 PM

I don't know about Kobe's defense though, I mean he did make the All-Defensive First team both of the years I put above, but a ton of people say he wasn't all that great.

Kobe did not play great Defense in 2006. 2003 he was good but Wade's was Defense was better.

If someone had some advanced stats on defense it would shed a lot of light on that.

http://media-touchdown.cursecdn.com/attachments/4/938/635372331405458711.jpg

As for me though, I'm going with Wade having the higher peak. Take that with a grain of Salt though, seeing as I am a huge Dwyane Wade Fan.

Kobe fans will bash you for this and bring up his 81pts, 62 through 3 quarters, 40pt games but Wade's Peak is better to me as well.

GIF REACTION

08-29-2015, 11:17 PM

I don't know about you guys but I think I hit the nail on the head with the D-Rob Hakeem comparison

Hakeems advanced stat numbers aren't great compared to Robinson's

GrapeApe

08-29-2015, 11:35 PM

I don't think Kobe ever had as dominant an all around regular season as Wade did in '09. Wade led the league in scoring, was 7th in assists, 2nd in steals, finished 3rd in DPOY, and was the first player since Jordan with over 175 steals and 100 blocks. Yes I'm a Heat fan so I'm biased, but that is an insane season. Wade did it all that year, and he did it on both ends.

On a side note, I actually think the best version of Wade may have been '06-'07 pre-injury. His jumper and post game were not quite as good as '09, but his quickness and explosion were at peak levels. He was putting up around 29/8/6/2.5/1 with a 30+ PER before getting hurt.

Wade's Rings

08-30-2015, 12:00 AM

I don't think Kobe ever had as dominant an all around regular season as Wade did in '09. Wade led the league in scoring, was 7th in assists, 2nd in steals, finished 3rd in DPOY, and was the first player since Jordan with over 175 steals and 100 blocks. Yes I'm a Heat fan so I'm biased, but that is an insane season. Wade did it all that year, and he did it on both ends.

:bowdown:

On a side note, I actually think the best version of Wade may have been '06-'07 pre-injury. His jumper and post game were not quite as good as '09, but his quickness and explosion were at peak levels. He was putting up around 29/8/6/2.5/1 with a 30+ PER before getting hurt.

'09 Wade's Defense was better but IMO 04-07(Pre Injury of course) Wade was more athletic than 08-12 Wade.

Rocketswin2013

08-30-2015, 12:02 AM

2009 Wade was pretty awesome.

Magic 32

08-30-2015, 01:02 AM

08 Kobe > 09 Wade ...when it mattered (playoffs).

Wade vs Hawks (47w)

29.1 ppg, 5.3 apg, 5 rpg, 1.6 bpg, 0.9 spg 43.9 fg%

Kobe vs Nuggets (50w), Jazz (54w), Spurs (56w)

31.9 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 5.8 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.3 bpg, 50.9 fg%

GIF REACTION

08-30-2015, 01:08 AM

Hakeem and D-Rob

Nothing else needs to be said

I am spot on

Wade's Rings

08-30-2015, 01:09 AM

:wtf:
08 Kobe > 09 Wade

No way Wade gets to the finals out west.

Yes he does with a good supporting cast, assuming he worls with the team. There was a thread on this I'll post it if I can find it.

Edit: Wade played poorly vs the Hawks in Pivotal Games but :oldlol: @ you for comparing the Playoffs as if Wade didn't carry a larger load considering how poor his team was. The Hawks were probably a better Defensive team than the '08 Nuggets & '08 Jazz.

Also, if you're only looking at Playoff numbers why don't you bring up Wade's '05, '06, and '11 Numbers?

Magic 32

08-30-2015, 01:17 AM

Also, if you're only looking at Playoff numbers why don't you bring up Wade's '05, '06, and '11 Numbers?

Wade never had a playoff run as good as Kobe in 2008, 2009 and 2010 (maybe even 2001).

Wade's Rings

08-30-2015, 01:20 AM

Wade never had a playoff run as good as Kobe in 2008, 2009 and 2010 (maybe even 2001).

:roll:

I know your a Kobe Stan but you can't be serious.

Magic 32

08-30-2015, 01:25 AM

:roll:

I know your a Kobe Stan but you can't be serious.

Dead serious.

Break the runs up any way you want. Series, overall stats, opponents...you name it.

Wade's Rings

08-30-2015, 01:29 AM

Dead serious.

Break the runs up any way you want. Series, overall stats, opponents...you name it.

If we do this Wade faced much better Defenses, probably had better stats(I'm on my phone and can't look them up), and if you pick "opponents" based on record at least add some context to them.

Edit: Wade also had less help in '06 and Shaq even missed 2 Games in '05 vs the Wizards but the Heat won those Games.

Magic 32

08-30-2015, 01:35 AM

If we do this Wade faced much better Defenses

Outside of the Pistons?

06 Mavs?

https://thetriangleoffensedotnet.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/kobe4.jpg

http://s21.postimg.org/5vgvb8693/6578678.png

Wade's Rings

08-30-2015, 01:40 AM

Outside of the Pistons?

06 Mavs?

https://thetriangleoffensedotnet.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/kobe4.jpg

http://s21.postimg.org/5vgvb8693/6578678.png

The Nets were a Top 5 Defense in 2005 & 2006, Bulls were the 6th Best Defense in 2006. The Celtics were Top 3 in 2011, Philly 7th in 2011, and the Bulls were the Best Defense that year.

Plus Wade torched most of the team Kobe played from 2008-2010 outside of the 2009 Rockets and he shot poorly vs the '10 Suns & Thunder. 2007-2008 he wasn't healthy.

Edit: :oldlol: @ you for not showing Kobe's 5/22 shooting vs the Mavs.

Magic 32

08-30-2015, 01:59 AM

The Nets were a Top 5 Defense in 2005 & 2006

Great. Still sucked like the Bobcats did 2 years ago (top 5 defensive team).

They sucked in 2002 and 2003 as well.

The Nets....just....sucked...period.

Bulls were the 6th Best Defense in 2006.

Great. Still a 41-41 team and Wade played pedestrian (24.7 ppg on 44% shooting).

The Celtics were Top 3 in 2011, Philly 7th in 2011, and the Bulls were the Best Defense that year.

Wade before the finals....24 ppg on 46% shooting. Sort of like Kobe's playoff run.....in 2002.

Edit: :oldlol: @ you for not showing Kobe's 5/22 shooting vs the Mavs.

Are you saying that those two games don't tell you all you need to know about the Mavs perimeter defense?

Wade's Rings

08-30-2015, 02:18 AM

Great. Still sucked like the Bobcats did 2 years ago (top 5 defensive team).

They sucked in 2002 and 2003 as well.

The Nets....just....sucked...period.

The Nets were a Top 5 Defense for 5 Years straight or at least 4 out of 5 Years. Still an Elite Defense and Wade still destroyed them.

Great. Still a 41-41 team and Wade played pedestrian (24.7 ppg on 44% shooting).

Still an Elite Defense. Wade played great down the stretch of multiple Games.

Wade before the finals....24 ppg on 46% shooting. Sort of like Kobe's playoff run.....in 2002.

Wade's Rebounding was was better than Kobe's from 08-10 and his Defense was at least better than 09-10 Kobe.

Are you saying that those two games don't tell you all you need to know about the Mavs perimeter defense?

It's funny how when it's the Mavs you point out how they were an average Defense but ignore their team record and the fact that the Heat weren't favored against them, to downplay Wade's heroics, but when it was the Great Defensive Teams you brought up their Team Record to diminish them :oldlol:

Here's what Wade did to the Teams Kobe faced:

2009 Jazz- 37/8/74/2 shooting 48%
2009 Rockets- 26/4/7/3.5/0 shooting 37%
2009 Nuggets- 32/5/3/1.5/1 shooting 53%
2009 Magic- 38/6/5/1.7/1 shooting 55%
2010 Thunder- 23/5/7/2/2.5 shooting 39%
2010 Jazz- 21/4/7/1/3 shooting 46%
2010 Suns- 28/9/8/2.5/0 shooting 42%

He only sucked vs the 2009 Rockets.

Cold soul

08-30-2015, 02:22 AM

06/09 Wade was amazingly good he was off the charts with his ability but Kobe peak was better but not by much.

GrapeApe

08-30-2015, 02:27 AM

Great. Still sucked like the Bobcats did 2 years ago (top 5 defensive team).

They sucked in 2002 and 2003 as well.

The Nets....just....sucked...period.

Great. Still a 41-41 team and Wade played pedestrian (24.7 ppg on 44% shooting).

Wade before the finals....24 ppg on 46% shooting. Sort of like Kobe's playoff run.....in 2002.

Are you saying that those two games don't tell you all you need to know about the Mavs perimeter defense?

What I learned from this post:

Defensive rankings don't matter.
Record doesn't matter if your perimeter defense is poor.
25/6/5 on 44% is pedestrian.

Magic 32

08-30-2015, 02:56 AM

What I learned from this post:

Defensive rankings don't matter.

True.

Enjoy another top 5 defensive team right here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE2_OKHToMA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQLET3uW97o

Record doesn't matter if your perimeter defense is poor.

Not if your argument is that they are good defensively.

25/6/5 on 44% is pedestrian.

Compared to peak Kobe. Pretty much.

Magic 32

08-30-2015, 03:02 AM

The Nets were a Top 5 Defense for 5 Years straight or at least 4 out of 5 Years. Still an Elite Defense and Wade still destroyed them.

They were the Bobcats of the 00's. Everybody of merits destroyed them.

Still an Elite Defense. Wade played great down the stretch of multiple Games.

So did Kobe in 2001, 2002, 2008, 2009 and 2010.

And also played better the rest of the time.

And the Bulls were still 41-41.

Wade's Rebounding was was better than Kobe's from 08-10 and his Defense was at least better than 09-10 Kobe.

For one series?

Big deal.

It's funny how when it's the Mavs you point out how they were an average Defense but ignore their team record and the fact that the Heat weren't favored against them

You want to play the record game?

Because your dude played in the east.

Here's what Wade did to the Teams Kobe faced:

2009 Jazz- 37/8/74/2 shooting 48%
2009 Rockets- 26/4/7/3.5/0 shooting 37%
2009 Nuggets- 32/5/3/1.5/1 shooting 53%
2009 Magic- 38/6/5/1.7/1 shooting 55%
2010 Thunder- 23/5/7/2/2.5 shooting 39%
2010 Jazz- 21/4/7/1/3 shooting 46%
2010 Suns- 28/9/8/2.5/0 shooting 42%

Soooo we have to go back to the RS now.

We were talking about playoffs runs. No?

I guess you just can't take the fact that Kobe was better....in every way.

ImKobe

08-30-2015, 03:11 AM

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

08-30-2015, 03:15 AM

How? For statistical reasons? Wade at his absolute peak played on a team that barely made the Playoffs, and he averaged 29/5/5 on 44% shooting against Atlanta

03 Kobe to me was much better, that was when he bulked and was at his strongest, 9 straight 40+ pt games, 5 triple doubles, 3pt record, dropping 42 in one half on MJ, 32/5/5 in the Playoffs on a bad knee

No offense, but why do Kobe fans always post this one liner, thinking it has any merit? MJ didn't guard Kobe unless you're talking about stuff in your own reality.

sportjames23

08-30-2015, 03:18 AM

No offense, but why do Kobe fans always post this one liner, thinking it has any merit? MJ didn't guard Kobe unless you're talking about stuff in your own reality.

Lots of Kobe stans live in Fantasy Land.

GrapeApe

08-30-2015, 03:26 AM

True.

Enjoy another top 5 defensive team right here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE2_OKHToMA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQLET3uW97o

Not if your argument is that they are good defensively.

Compared to peak Kobe. Pretty much.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with how statistics work, but an 82 game sample size is a lot more significant than a few outlier games. Anyway, you seem to be having a hard time seperating defensive rankings and team record. Great defensive teams with mediocre records obviously struggle to score. That doesn't make them any less formidable defensively, just easier to stop from scoring. Conversely, sometimes a team has a great record but struggles defensively. The difference is one team is harder to put big numbers against but easier to defeat, and the other is easier to put up big numbers against but harder to defeat.

My point is you can't dismiss Wade's performances against strong defensive teams with poor records and then turn around and dismiss his performance against a poor defensive team with a great record. You can't have it both ways.

Magic 32

08-30-2015, 03:29 AM

My point is you dismiss Wade's performances against strong defensive teams with poor records and then turn around and dismiss his performance against a poor defensive team with a great record. You can't have it both ways.

You can if the good defensive teams are some like 41-41, and the teams with the good records have been annihilated in historic fashion by the player you are trying to outshine in your comparison.

KnittingRyu

08-30-2015, 03:56 AM

Player talent/skill? By far. If accolades played no part in most peoples top all time list, Kobe wouldnt even sniff the top 10.

He also gets more credit for 5 championships than his 2 FMVPs and 1 MVP, yet over half of those 5 championships he can thank Shaq for.

ImKobe

08-30-2015, 04:22 AM

No offense, but why do Kobe fans always post this one liner, thinking it has any merit? MJ didn't guard Kobe unless you're talking about stuff in your own reality.

it does, Lakers played the Wizards, MJ played on the opposing team

he wanted no part of Kobe that game :roll:, especially after Kobe owned him in the ASG a month earlier

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/3/15/14/anigif_enhanced-buzz-13633-1363373844-0.gif

ImKobe

08-30-2015, 04:31 AM

He also gets more credit for 5 championships than his 2 FMVPs and 1 MVP, yet over half of those 5 championships he can thank Shaq for.

Shaq doesn't win one ring from 00-02 without Kobe, so what's your point here?

All of the pivotal moments they had during the 3-peat, Kobe was the one that carried the team in pressure situations and Kobe was the guy that set Shaq up for all the easy baskets he got

- game-saving block on Sabonis @ Portland
- leading the team in every major statistic (including blocks) in Game 7
- bailing the team out on the road on an injured ankle in OT with Shaq fouled out Game 4 Finals
- leading the 01 Lakers in WS/48, being the best player through the Western Conference Playoffs with 11 straight wins, having far superior numbers to Shaq in road games
- 30/11/7 for Games 6 & 7 in the Sacramento series in 02, taking over every close game against the Nets in the Finals

But somehow Kobe was the one that needed Shaq, and Shaq could have made it out the WC with any scrub in place of Kobe, right? That's why he has one sidekick ring without Kobe while Kobe has 2 FMVPs with b2b title runs and 3 straight Finals without Shaq. :applause:

Shaq's help in all the years he tried to ring without Kobe

peak wade
peak Nash
peak Bran
Boston big 3

all those teams and he won 1 measly ring after Wade went ham in the finals after Miami was down 0 - 2 with Shaq looking like a role player :kobe:

Kobe_6/8

08-30-2015, 04:32 AM

He also gets more credit for 5 championships than his 2 FMVPs and 1 MVP, yet over half of those 5 championships he can thank Shaq for.

Wade can also thank Shaq for help with a championship.

red1

08-30-2015, 04:36 AM

Wade can also thank Shaq for help with a championship.
*shaq can thank wade

SamuraiSWISH

08-30-2015, 12:08 PM

GIF REACTION

08-30-2015, 12:21 PM

I'll say it one more time guys,

Hakeem and David Robinson.

Smoke117

08-30-2015, 04:57 PM

Kobe's 2003 competes with Wade's 2009. Both were monsters defensively in a way that 2003 T-Mac never was. So I rate those guys seasons higher. It's a pick em between Kobe's 2003 and Wade's 2009. Dwyane's playoffs were a disappointment.

Kobe was never a "monster" defensively any year. His best defensive season was 2000...he'd be decent to very good the rest of his career before he got old...but he was never a monster. That is just absurd to say 2003 Kobe was as good defensively as 2009 Wade. You really never have any idea what you are talking about, do you?

Wade's Rings

08-30-2015, 05:12 PM

They were the Bobcats of the 00's. Everybody of merits destroyed them.

Still a great Defensive Team.

So did Kobe in 2001, 2002, 2008, 2009 and 2010.

Kobe shot like 30% in the 4th Quarter of the Finals in 2009 & 2010. I don't remember his all of his numbers for the other series.

And also played better the rest of the time.

:oldlol:

And the Bulls were still 41-41.

They were still a great Defense.

For one series?

Big deal.

Wade in 2011 grabbed 7 Rebounds per Game the only year Kobe matched that was 2001.

You want to play the record game?

Because your dude played in the east.

You bring up Team Record when discussing the Great Defensive Teams Wade faced but when it's the 2006 Mavs who won 60 Games you talk about how they sucked Defensively...stop shifting the goalpost.

Soooo we have to go back to the RS now.

We were talking about playoffs runs. No?

You literally brought up Kobe's 2005-2006 Regular Season Games vs the Mavs(leaving out the game Kobe shot 5/22) and I bring up Wade's Regular Season Stats vs the Teams Kobe faced but "I'm going back to the regular season" :roll:

I guess you just can't take the fact that Kobe was better....in every way.

You can't even stick to using one criteria and keep shifting it around :oldlol:

Stop wasting my time you idiot.