Barack Obama vs George W. Bush

[Nick Young]

Is one really better then the other?:confusedshrug:


http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/drone-attacks-deaths-bush-vs-obama.jpg
http://libertyworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Oct-Obama-Vs-Bush-Private1.gif

http://urbangrounds.com/wp-content/uploads/Bush_vs_Obama.jpg

http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/images/obamavsbush.jpg

http://www.richgibson.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Obama-War-Vs-bush1.jpg

http://mariopiperni.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Bush_Obama_SinCity.jpg

I just don't understand how democrats who under Bush were anti-war, anti-interventionalist under Obama now are supporting an intervionalist war and claiming anyone who doesn't is selfish and self interested. Do they realize how hypocritical they all look?

[CeltsGarlic]

obama win by KO in first round.

[Electric Slide]

If Obama wasn't black, he wouldn't be president. Seriously, so many people just voted for Obama because he was black.

Everybody (mostly blacks) talks about happy they are that they finally have a black president but they never talk about how he is going to be a good president and will fix things.

[CeltsGarlic]

If Obama wasn't black, he wouldn't be president. Seriously, so many people just voted for Obama because he was black.

Everybody (mostly blacks) talks about happy they are that they finally have a black president but they never talk about how he is going to be a good president and will fix things.

Lol it would be so funny if Mitt Romney would say this in debates :lol

[Patrick Chewing]

If Obama wasn't black, he wouldn't be president. Seriously, so many people just voted for Obama because he was black.




The truth.



Anyone else who thinks otherwise is just a blind idiot.

[Nick Young]

The truth.



Anyone else who thinks otherwise is just a blind idiot.
My honest opinion-he's a good looking and cool guy, very intelligent, and very charismatic and inspiring during his speeches. If he was white I think he would have won two terms as well.

His speeches are amazing, even now, knowing how full of shit he is, I still get hyped up listening to his speeches, whereas with Bush I would facepalm and get uninspired.

[Electric Slide]

My honest opinion-he's a good looking and cool guy, very intelligent, and very charismatic and inspiring during his speeches. If he was white I think he would have won two terms as well.

His speeches are amazing, even now, knowing how full of shit he is, I still get hyped up listening to his speeches, whereas with Bush I would facepalm and get uninspired.
He probably would but the only reason why Obama won in a landslide was due to him being black. There were some such as myself that voted for him due to his political views though but too many idiots just said "OMG, HE'S BLACK, HE'S GOTTA BE PRESIDENT." Same people that think Zimmerman was guilty.

[OJ SIMPSON 2.0]

Obama by fsr. 1st of all Obama finished the job Bush failed to do in killing Bin Laden. He gave tumhe order to help Libian rebels and kill ghadafi, he's even following the constitution and getting congress to Vote on attacking Syria. Obama is a president for the people, he has created many jobs and you know how Republicans want to take away entitlement programs, he wants to add more. He shows that he cares or may I remind you of Bush and Katrina. Don't go trying to compare the two, Obama is nothing like that alcoholic.

[Nick Young]

Obama by fsr. 1st of all Obama finished the job Bush failed to do in killing Bin Laden. He gave tumhe order to help Libian rebels and kill ghadafi, he's even following the constitution and getting congress to Vote on attacking Syria. Obama is a president for the people, he has created many jobs and you know how Republicans want to take away entitlement programs, he wants to add more. He shows that he cares or may I remind you of Bush and Katrina. Don't go trying to compare the two, Obama is nothing like that alcoholic.


Bush killed Saddam and "ended Taliban rule" in Afghanistan, if that is the kind of thing that impresses you.:lol
http://libertyworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Oct-Obama-Vs-Bush-Private1.gif

Don't go trying to compare the two, Bush is nothing like that cokehead.

[Patrick Chewing]

My honest opinion-he's a good looking and cool guy, very intelligent, and very charismatic and inspiring during his speeches. If he was white I think he would have won two terms as well.

His speeches are amazing, even now, knowing how full of shit he is, I still get hyped up listening to his speeches, whereas with Bush I would facepalm and get uninspired.


I too was impressed and almost swayed myself into his direction in 2008, but I just couldn't bring myself to place a man with such little experience in charge of a country in such tough economic times. Eventually, his schtick of reading off teleprompters and making every speech into some triumphant moment in history got old. When jobs were unattainable and when he began to apologize to the world for past transgressions, I realized that he was nothing more than just a puppet in place to just pass policy and steer the country into a different direction. While he cements his own personal legacy, the country is being driven into this progressive utopian fantasy that only exists in works of fiction.

You may have facepalmed to Bush as much as the next guy, but with Bush, you felt as if though he was coming to you from the heart. With Obama, he smiles just to pull the wool over your eyes while he begins to fill your head with propaganda and lies.

[OJ SIMPSON 2.0]

Bush killed Saddam and "ended Taliban rule" in Afghanistan, if that is the kind of thing that impresses you.:lol
http://libertyworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Oct-Obama-Vs-Bush-Private1.gif

Don't go trying to compare the two, Bush is nothing like that cokehead.
Obama has to clean after Bush's mess stupid Neocon.

[HarryCallahan]

Obama has to clean after Bush's mess stupid Neocon.


Can you stop using that word, you've not once used it correctly.

[MavsSuperFan]

If Obama was white he would have won by a larger margin all other things being the same (also he has a white family).

He would certainly lose some black voters, but as a democrat he would have still won the black vote.

John Kerry (who other than being a democrat has no other obvious appeal to black voters) won 88% of the black vote in 2004

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html
A charismatic white man would probably have done better than Kerry (who is kind of a socially awkward stiff).


While the number of non-Hispanic white voters remained roughly the same, 2 million more blacks, 2 million more Latinos and 600,000 more Asians turned out.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/us/politics/21vote.html

That might have hurt hypothetical white obama, but I think white obama makes up for it by getting more white votes. Also a lot of young voters such as myself voted for obama because we were inspired by him and it had nothing to do with his race.

Obama didnt win because he was black, He won because he was better at lying to us and more charismatic about it. The same reason 99% of presidents win. Also because bush had destroyed the republican brand. Generic Dem was crushing Generic GOP candidate in the polls.

Edit: also he had weak competition. McCain was destroyed by Bush, we just flat out werent going to elect a republican that soon after Bush, the primary between hillary and obama settled who would be president.

Romney's social skills are so bad he makes Kerry seem smooth.

[OJ SIMPSON 2.0]

Can you stop using that word, you've not once used it correctly.
Does the word offend you or something? Neocon just face it, Obama is a great president compared to that raging alcoholic.

[deja vu]

If Obama wasn't black, he wouldn't be president. Seriously, so many people just voted for Obama because he was black.

Everybody (mostly blacks) talks about happy they are that they finally have a black president but they never talk about how he is going to be a good president and will fix things.
This. Everybody was talking about that stupid "hope" and "change" Polyanna mantra and gullible peeps swallowed them hook, line and sinker.

Americans should have kicked him out of the White House at the first chance. Instead they reelected him. :lol :facepalm

[HarryCallahan]

Does the word offend you or something? Neocon just face it, Obama is a great president compared to that raging alcoholic.

No, you've just not ever used it in describing someone who actually is a neo-conservative. I'm not a neo-con, neither is Nick Young. Obarmer however is a "born-again neo-con" in the words of king neo-con Bill Kristol.

You are an idiot.

[tomtucker]

If Obama wasn't black, he wouldn't be president. Seriously, so many people just voted for Obama because he was black.

Everybody (mostly blacks) talks about happy they are that they finally have a black president but they never talk about how he is going to be a good president and will fix things.

starting to belive this too..........if he attacks syria it

[JtotheIzzo]

The truth.



Anyone else who thinks otherwise is just a blind idiot.

Joe Biden could have won in 2008, ANYONE except a Republican was getting in.

People underestimate how much the right puts their foot in their mouth, the whole wishy washy on rape and women's rights along with the anti-Mexican vibe they gave off is why they lost in 2012.

Barry was the right guy at the right time, people were lukewarm on Hillary and he provided an option, he basically got 8 years off an inspired speech from 2004.

[OldSkoolball#52]

If Obama was white he would have won by a larger margin all other things being the same (also he has a white family).

He would certainly lose some black voters, but as a democrat he would have still won the black vote.

John Kerry (who other than being a democrat has no other obvious appeal to black voters) won 88% of the black vote in 2004

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html
A charismatic white man would probably have done better than Kerry (who is kind of a socially awkward stiff).


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/us/politics/21vote.html

That might have hurt hypothetical white obama, but I think white obama makes up for it by getting more white votes. Also a lot of young voters such as myself voted for obama because we were inspired by him and it had nothing to do with his race.

Obama didnt win because he was black, He won because he was better at lying to us and more charismatic about it. The same reason 99% of presidents win. Also because bush had destroyed the republican brand. Generic Dem was crushing Generic GOP candidate in the polls.

Edit: also he had weak competition. McCain was destroyed by Bush, we just flat out werent going to elect a republican that soon after Bush, the primary between hillary and obama settled who would be president.

Romney's social skills are so bad he makes Kerry seem smooth.

However it is still true that if Obama was not black he would not be President. Hed have had no shot in the primaries. He SURGED in the primaries once people saw pictures of him. Voting for a black guy gave Dem voters EXACTLY what they always strive for, which is a badge of "being tolerant" they can show off to everyone. It is the thing they most associate their personal identity with. In fact its the only thing. Like the guy who takes sports too seriously and everythin he has is sports themed. Liberals triumphantly parade and advertise to everyone "HEY IM NOT RACIST!!! EVERYONE LOOK, I DONT CARE ABOUT RACE!" Its all they have. Most of them have no other distinguishing qualities, and so they hone their image as tolerant progressive intellectual. Even tho none of their opinions or thoughts are original. Its a huge crowd of posers hating the "successful conservatives" who used to pick on them in school.

[KevinNYC]

Is one really better then the other?:confusedshrug:

If your argument is so strong against Obama, why not state it honestly? Why use the dishonest nonsense you post?

More Americans died in Afghanistan under Obama than Bush because Bush turned away from Afghanistan and turned to Iraq, while Obamam wound down Iraq and refocused on Afghanistan. So if they metric is US soldiers killed under a president, you need to include the Iraq deaths.

I think Afghanistan is a pretty rich area to criticize Obama. For one thing, had he not kicked the can to 2014 and also withdrew troops, he would be having a different conversation on Syria.

The Bush Tax Cuts are in no way whatsoever equivalent to the stimulus under Obama and only a moron would think so. The most obvious difference being one occurred after a financial collapse unseen since the 1930s.

If job creation/loss is your metric, Obama comes out way ahead. (http://www.factcheck.org/2013/04/obamas-numbers-quarterly-update/)[QUOTE]The economy has added more jobs since Obama took office than it did in his predecessor

[KevinNYC]

Also plenty of Democrats supported war after 9/11. Bush had 90% approval ratings, it was only afterwards when it was shifted to Iraq that serious opposition began. Seeing how the decision to go war with Iraq was among the worst ever, I don't think your premise holds up.

[KingBeasley08]

They are practically the same thing. Republicans are fvcking retarded so I supported the Democrats and they ended up being the same thing

[OldSkoolball#52]

***Partisan Retard Alert***

KevinNYC presence detected in thread

***Paritsan Retard Alert***





More Americans died in Afghanistan under Obama than Bush because Bush turned away from Afghanistan and turned to Iraq, while Obamam wound down Iraq and refocused on Afghanistan. So if they metric is US soldiers killed under a president, you need to include the Iraq deaths.

The issue is that Obama campaigned on un-doing what Bush did and doing everything that he didn't do. He got into office and fought the exact same 'war' just in a different country.



The Bush Tax Cuts are in no way whatsoever equivalent to the stimulus under Obama and only a moron would think so. The most obvious difference being one occurred after a financial collapse unseen since the 1930s.

Obama extended the Bush tax cuts. He literally signed a bill extending the Bush tax cuts exactly as they had previously existed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20026069-503544.html


There's plenty of honest and legitimate criticism you can make of Obama, why choose stupid, dishonest and easily disprovables ones?

I asked you around the time of the last election to name one single disagreement or criticism you personally had toward Obama and you couldn't/wouldn't. You are a complete hack, a pretend "wannabe-political talkshow host" a partisan sheep and an admitted welfare hording loser. Even now you won't actually name a SPECIFIC criticism of the president, the farther into those waters you'll dip your toe is to say "its possible in theory" to criticize him, which is something everyone else ALREADY KNOWS. You personally will not volunteer a single individual opinion as you never, ever have. You are completely tied by handcuffs to Obama and the Democratic Party rhetoric, you are scared to venture out of the safety net they provide you.





If job creation/loss is your metric, Obama comes out way ahead. (http://www.factcheck.org/2013/04/obamas-numbers-quarterly-update/)

Any government can "create" phony government jobs. That's a metric of nothing. It means nothing. It is literally money the government WASTES to create an illusion that sounds good to idiot voters. It's a talking point losers like you cling to because you have no value. You pretend like you are Rachel Maddow or some other party hack who at least has made it and has a real audience, while you collect welfare and pretend all day long from your apartment to be the authority on Democratic Talking Points.

[MavsSuperFan]

However it is still true that if Obama was not black he would not be President. Hed have had no shot in the primaries. He SURGED in the primaries once people saw pictures of him. Voting for a black guy gave Dem voters EXACTLY what they always strive for, which is a badge of "being tolerant" they can show off to everyone. It is the thing they most associate their personal identity with. In fact its the only thing. Like the guy who takes sports too seriously and everythin he has is sports themed. Liberals triumphantly parade and advertise to everyone "HEY IM NOT RACIST!!! EVERYONE LOOK, I DONT CARE ABOUT RACE!" Its all they have. Most of them have no other distinguishing qualities, and so they hone their image as tolerant progressive intellectual. Even tho none of their opinions or thoughts are original. Its a huge crowd of posers hating the "successful conservatives" who used to pick on them in school.

Meh, nobody voted for Jesse Jackson that time he ran.

Obama is a charismatic guy (with appeal to white people). Honestly American presidential elections are kind of a farce. something like the candidate with more money will win 94% of the time. Basically 30 second TV ads inform the voters actually decide the election. We call them undecided voters or swing voters. If you are undecided about an American election a month before the vote, you are a dumbass. All of the intelligent voters who are voting on the issues cancel each other out.

Obama was more likeable than Hillary. The more likeable candidate usually wins. Personally I voted for Obama because I felt he was more likely to immediately end the wars, Close gitmo, pursue at least the public option, and prosecute wall street fraud. He was better at lying than Hillary. It had nothing to do with him being black. I honestly think him being black helped him with blacks (a lot) and latinos (somewhat) and that is it. The rest was charisma.

Also Because of the electoral college only a handful of states actually matter in the general presidential election

Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina, Florida, etc.

States like Texas, Georgia, Alabama, etc are going to go GOP whether you vote or not.

States like NY, California, Massachusetts, etc are going democratic whether you vote or not.

[IamRAMBO24]

Obama won because of 3 things:

1. Money.

2. Change from Bush.

3. Youth vote.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Meh, nobody voted for Jesse Jackson that time he ran.

Obama is a charismatic guy (with appeal to white people). Honestly American presidential elections are kind of a farce. something like the candidate with more money will win 94% of the time. Basically 30 second TV ads inform the voters actually decide the election. We call them undecided voters or swing voters. If you are undecided about an American election a month before the vote, you are a dumbass. All of the intelligent voters who are voting on the issues cancel each other out.

Obama was more likeable than Hillary. The more likeable candidate usually wins. Personally I voted for Obama because I felt he was more likely to immediately end the wars, Close gitmo, pursue at least the public option, and prosecute wall street fraud. He was better at lying than Hillary. It had nothing to do with him being black. I honestly think him being black helped him with blacks (a lot) and latinos (somewhat) and that is it. The rest was charisma.

Also Because of the electoral college only a handful of states actually matter in the general presidential election

Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina, Florida, etc.

States like Texas, Georgia, Alabama, etc are going to go GOP whether you vote or not.

States like NY, California, Massachusetts, etc are going democratic whether you vote or not.


This is all true.

90% of Americans vote based on party and politicians. Not policies. That's the problem.

[KevinNYC]

The issue is that Obama campaigned on un-doing what Bush did and doing everything that he didn't do. He got into office and fought the exact same 'war' just in a different country.


Um. No he didn't. Anyone who paid attention noted that Barack Obama campaigned on refocusing on Afghanistan. Here he is in July 2008. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/15/us/politics/15text-obama.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0)

Senator McCain said – just months ago – that “Afghanistan is not in trouble because of our diversion to Iraq.” I could not disagree more. Our troops and our NATO allies are performing heroically in Afghanistan, but I have argued for years that we lack the resources to finish the job because of our commitment to Iraq. That’s what the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said earlier this month. And that’s why, as President, I will make the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban the top priority that it should be. This is a war that we have to win.

I will send at least two additional combat brigades to Afghanistan, and use this commitment to seek greater contributions – with fewer restrictions – from NATO allies. I will focus on training Afghan security forces and supporting an Afghan judiciary, with more resources and incentives for American officers who perform these missions. Just as we succeeded in the Cold War by supporting allies who could sustain their own security, we must realize that the 21st century’s frontlines are not only on the field of battle – they are found in the training exercise near Kabul, in the police station in Kandahar, and in the rule of law in Herat.


Obama extended the Bush tax cuts. He literally signed a bill extending the Bush tax cuts exactly as they had previously existed.
Yes he did, during a severe recession. In fact, a good chunk of the stimulus was in tax cuts. It's still completely irrelevant to the comparison made above but you're not bright enough to see that. Later Obama signed another bill that brought those tax cuts back on the top 2% and the top brack is currently
39.6% on taxable income over $450,000.



I asked you around the time of the last election to name one single disagreement or criticism you personally had toward Obama and you couldn't/wouldn't. You are a complete hack, a pretend "wannabe-political talkshow host" a partisan sheep and an admitted welfare hording loser. Even now you won't actually name a SPECIFIC criticism of the president, the farther into those waters you'll dip your toe is to say "its possible in theory" to criticize him, which is something everyone else ALREADY KNOWS. You personally will not volunteer a single individual opinion as you never, ever have. You are completely tied by handcuffs to Obama and the Democratic Party rhetoric, you are scared to venture out of the safety net they provide you.
Blah, blah, blah. I've never been on welfare in my life so please show me where I admitted that.


Any government can "create" phony government jobs. That's a metric of nothing. It means nothing. It is literally money the government WASTES to create an illusion that sounds good to idiot voters. It's a talking point losers like you cling to because you have no value.
A. Your point is bullshit. Money earned by cops, firemen, teachers, scientists, soldiers, contractors still flow through the economy.
B. Your point is blatantly false.

Under Obama, a Record Decline in Government Jobs (http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/06/under-obama-a-record-decline-in-government-jobs/)

The number of public sector jobs has shrunk by more than 700,000 on [Obama's] watch. (http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=a4602806-9a56-4980-91fd-71334748a79b) It grew by 1.75 million during George W. Bush's terms.

Government Employment has not kept up with population during this recession. In fact, it's plunged. That spike in 2010 represents Census hiring.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/09/09/opinion/090912krugman1/090912krugman1-blog480.jpg

[OldSkoolball#52]

Under Obama, a Record Decline in Government Jobs (http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/06/under-obama-a-record-decline-in-government-jobs/)


This is why everyone hates you. Because you aren't interested in the truth, just in partisan face-saving.

YOUR OWN LINK explains that job loss in the public sector came at the local levels Obama has absolutely no jurisdiction over. At the federal level...

[quote]
That record, which will seem a dubious distinction to public-sector employees, is largely a result not of federal policy but of shrinking state governments. State employment fell 1.2 percent in 2011

[rufuspaul]

Obama was supposed to get me free healthcare and pay my mortgage so color me disappointed.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Obama was supposed to get me free healthcare and pay my mortgage so color me disappointed.


Those promises don't apply to people who work.

[longhornfan1234]

I voted for Obama in '08. I thought he would fundamentally change America. My party lost because Obama's changing of the old guard strategy proved to be too tough to crack for Republicans...as this really resonated with the general public. It's too early to compare Obama to Bush.

[PistonsFan#21]

If Obama wasn't black, he wouldn't be president. Seriously, so many people just voted for Obama because he was black.

Everybody (mostly blacks) talks about happy they are that they finally have a black president but they never talk about how he is going to be a good president and will fix things.

so are we gonna act as if there isnt just as many racist white people who voted against him because they didnt want a black man as the leader of their country?

what about all the scandal on his birth certificate and him being a muslim? I bet you those topics would have never been brought up if he was white.

[KevinNYC]

YOUR OWN LINK explains that job loss in the public sector came at the local levels Obama has absolutely no jurisdiction over. At the federal level...

Obama's policy is to create as many government jobs/dependents as possible, necessary or unnecessary. That keeps voters under the Democrats' thumb. An excessive of government dependents is not good for any country, but you don't care. You are not concerned about the United States of America. You milk the government for fraudulent disability money, just like your father taught you to do (you admitted this in a thread some 2 or 3 years ago) and you spend all your time defending the hand that feeds you, even when it is with the earnings of others. Good for you. Partisan hack. You are a loser.

So you couldn't find any evidence to back up your welfare lie, could you? Now you're spewing a disability lie? My father was a Goldwater Conservative who campaigned for the NY Conservative party. Nice try though.

You claimed government jobs didn't affect the economy. This is a Republican talking point. It's just simply false. And anyone with a basic sense of macroeconomics knows it's not true. It's especially not true in times like past five years.

My post is dishonest only if you can convince yourself that local jobs help the economy while federal jobs don't. Your point is simply incoherent.

Also the fact is that federal goverment payrolls are down overall since Obama took office which demolishes your point about Obama's plan. In
Jan 2009 there were 2,772,000 federal employees. The latest month we have the data for is May 2013 when there were 2,757,000. You can check these numbers on the BLS website. Go here and just select "Federal" to get the numbers
http://www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cesbtab1.htm

Again overall federal employment is down during Obama's term. However, even that 1.3 percent you cite is due to spike during 2010, when we hired a shitload of people to do the census.

The other thing to note is that federal employment has gone down while the population of the country has gone up by 10 million. Population growth especially affects local government. Usually when you get more people you need more cops, more teachers, etc.

[MavsSuperFan]

Yes he did, during a severe recession. In fact, a good chunk of the stimulus was in tax cuts. It's still completely irrelevant to the comparison made above but you're not bright enough to see that. Later Obama signed another bill that brought those tax cuts back on the top 2% and the top brack is currently
39.6% on taxable income over $450,000.


Obama extended the bush tax cuts in full for 2 years

Then later Obama basically wrote it into law that 98% of the bush tax cuts would be there forever. They will never expire.

If you have a problem with the bush tax cuts how can you support Obama's actions on this issue?

At a minimum Obama's actions indicate that he agrees with 98% of Bush's tax cuts. Bush never made them permanent tax cuts. That was Obama.

All Obama had to do to get rid of the Bush tax cuts was to do nothing and let them expire. Obama actively went out to protect them in full for 2 years and then actively went out and insured 98% of them will never expire. They are at least partially the obama tax cuts now.

[OldSkoolball#52]

so are we gonna act as if there isnt just as many racist white people who voted against him because they didnt want a black man as the leader of their country?

Certainly there are, but those are not people who swing an election anyway. Those people either always vote red or don't vote at all.

Women and wafflers swing the elections. They are the most easily impressionable groups of people. They all gave themselves a huge pat on the back for voting for "this nice black man" and demonstrating to everyone else (which is their top priority) how totally beyond race they are. Even backwoods racists typically don't go around bragging about George Bush or Mitt Romney. Those people typically don't like politicians and government at all anyway. Liberals were wildly flaunting OBAMA PRIDE down everyones throats from Day 1. They absolutely reveled in being seen voting for a black guy. They needed everyone to see their membership in The Progressive Club. They are posers and when you are a poser, your whole thing is showing off who and what you are to others. That's what liberals did. They showed off their Obama Pride nonstop, loud and proud. Just look at the fervor Obama drew that Kerry did not. For all intents and purposes they are the same politician. Same party, same politics. It's not because Obama was "more charismatic" he's honestly not that charismatic. That's a blatant misnomer. Clinton was far more charismatic. Obama was a nice looking black guy who did manage to sell some fraudulent hope dream.




what about all the scandal on his birth certificate and him being a muslim? I bet you those topics would have never been brought up if he was white.

Parties are always gonna attack each other, regardless of race. Republicans actually wanted to waste time impeaching Clinton for adultery. :facepalm As far as being a Muslim, I'm pretty sure Obama's father IS a muslim, and Obama's christian "pastor" was applauding/glorifying September 11. Those are facts. It's not exactly a leap for his detractors to labale the dude a "muslim" even if they know he doesn't practice it actively.

[tontoz]

The Bush presidency was the worst in US history. The economy completely collapsed, forcing the US to print money hand over fist to bail the economy out. He also started a war with Iraq for no reason costing lives and roughly $5trillion dollars.

Bush was a train wreck and made the US a worldwide laughingstock for electing this idiot.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Obama extended the bush tax cuts in full for 2 years

Then later Obama basically wrote it into law that 98% of the bush tax cuts would be there forever. They will never expire.

If you have a problem with the bush tax cuts how can you support Obama's actions on this issue?

At a minimum Obama's actions indicate that he agrees with 98% of Bush's tax cuts. Bush never made them permanent tax cuts. That was Obama.


Obama extended the Bush tax cuts quietly in the middle of his term.

When election time came rolling around, then he got on the soapbox and demanded rich people "pay their fair share."


Obama, just like Bush, is not doing what he feels is best for his country. He is an actor on a stage, justifying the decisions of his party and the people behind the scenes who have the power to control the nations affairs. The guy is absolutely, 100% not a leader. He is a puppet, putting on a charade. And sadly, he has regular Americans bickering over him, which is the entire purpose of the illusion.

[OldSkoolball#52]

The Bush presidency was the worst in US history. The economy completely collapsed, forcing the US to print money hand over fist to bail the economy out. He also started a war with Iraq for no reason costing lives and roughly $5trillion dollars.

Bush was a train wreck and made the US a worldwide laughingstock for electing this idiot.


Bush didnt "make" the economy collapse. No president does. He happened to be in office when it did.

Also, Congress voted for war. As in, Hillary Clinton and John Kerry and others. Guess that doesn't suit your "good guys and bad guys" agenda.

[KevinNYC]

Obama extended the bush tax cuts in full for 2 years

Then later Obama basically wrote it into law that 98% of the bush tax cuts would be there forever. They will never expire.

If you have a problem with the bush tax cuts how can you support Obama's actions on this issue?

Read upthread.

The original argument was a completely apples to oranges comparisons of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts to the stimulus. They are not comparable and it's dishonest to pretend they are since they took place under completely different economic conditions. The only way they could be comparable is if you pretended that ALL job growth/loss is due to tax/stimulus policy.


Also tax cuts affecting the bottom 98% is not 98% of the tax cuts, note the 30% going to the top 1 percent there, but this is a completely separate issue from my point.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/01/image-3.jpg

[tontoz]

Bush didnt "make" the economy collapse. No president does. He happened to be in office when it did.

Also, Congress voted for war. As in, Hillary Clinton and John Kerry and others. Guess that doesn't suit your "good guys and bad guys" agenda.


the banking deregulation and the war on Iraq are what led to the collapse of the economy. And Congress believed that Iraq had WMD's which was nothing but a Bush Administration lie.

Still waiting to hear you explain why Federal employment has gone down even though you claim that "Obama's policy is to create as many government jobs/dependents as possible, necessary or unnecessary." I won't hold my breath.

[Nick Young]

Does the word offend you or something? Neocon just face it, Obama is a great president compared to that raging alcoholic.
It is very easy to argue that he is worse then Bush. That's coming from someone who thought Bush was pretty bad. If you call Bush a raging alchoholic then Obama is a raging coke head stoner.

[MavsSuperFan]

Read upthread.

The original argument was a completely apples to oranges comparisons of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts to the stimulus. They are not comparable and it's dishonest to pretend they are since they took place under completely different economic conditions. The only way they could be comparable is if you pretended that ALL job growth/loss is due to tax/stimulus policy.


Also tax cuts affecting the bottom 98% is not 98% of the tax cuts, note the 30% going to the top 1 percent there, but this is a completely separate issue from my point.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/01/image-3.jpg

My point was its funny how you completely blame bush for initaiting the tax cuts, while completely defending obama for ensuring the continuation of the tax cuts.

[KevinNYC]

the banking deregulation and the war on Iraq are what led to the collapse of the economy. And Congress believed that Iraq had WMD's which was nothing but a Bush Administration lie.

Still waiting to hear you explain why Federal employment has gone down even though you claim that "Obama's policy is to create as many government jobs/dependents as possible, necessary or unnecessary." I won't hold my breath.

The War on Iraq had nothing to do with collapsing the economy. It raised the deficit, but that didn't cause the economy to collapse. As for banking deregulation, the specific repeal of Glass Steagal did not cause the crisis, but had regulators enforced existed regulations at every step of the mortgage chain, we would have been much, much better. The culture of deregulation definitely played a part. Trusting banks to manage their risk was a giant error in retrospect. Some of that falls on Bush. However, I don't see how any president would have known about the problems in the shadow banking system until a crisis hit. I don't think any president would have known about how interconnected the Too Big To Fail banks had become.

Remember the housing bubble popped in 2006, the economy sufffered but it was not catastrophic, it was when the credit bubble popped in 2008 when we fell off a cliff.

[KevinNYC]

My point was its funny how you completely blame bush for initaiting the tax cuts, while completely defending obama for ensuring the continuation of the tax cuts.

At no point in this thread, did I point out the merits of either.

[OldSkoolball#52]

the banking deregulation and the war on Iraq are what led to the collapse of the economy. And Congress believed that Iraq had WMD's which was nothing but a Bush Administration lie.

Still waiting to hear you explain why Federal employment has gone down even though you claim that "Obama's policy is to create as many government jobs/dependents as possible, necessary or unnecessary." I won't hold my breath.


Nothing you said here even made a remote amount of sense, objectively. That was nothing but the incoherent rage of a liberal nerd who still blames George Bush for his own personal inadequacies in life.

It is clear that Bush is simply an outlet for your own personal frustrations with your inability to compete in a tough world. What's the matter? Not smart enough? Not makin enough money? Can't put on muscle? Girls don't want you? Some sunovabitch don't wanna buy land? Waahhhhh, it's all Bush's fault! Republicans are jerks!!!!

You're angry because you are wanting. And you can't stand to look in the mirror and blame yourself. Liberals are your flock, they are the one group that you still feel semi-included by. So you keep hating George Bush, long after he's even been relevant.

Get mad you little ******. Get mad.

[tontoz]

Nothing you said here even made a remote amount of sense, objectively. That was nothing but the incoherent rage of a liberal nerd who still blames George Bush for his own personal inadequacies in life.

It is clear that Bush is simply an outlet for your own personal frustrations with your inability to compete in a tough world. What's the matter? Not smart enough? Not makin enough money? Can't put on muscle? Girls don't want you? Some sunovabitch don't wanna buy land? Waahhhhh, it's all Bush's fault! Republicans are jerks!!!!

You're angry because you are wanting. And you can't stand to look in the mirror and blame yourself. Liberals are your flock, they are the one group that you still feel semi-included by. So you keep hating George Bush, long after he's even been relevant.

Get mad you little ******. Get mad.


Like i said, still waiting on your response about Federal jobs going down under Obama. You will probably respond at about the same time they find the WMDs in Iraq. You remember those don't you, the reason Bush said we needed to go to war in the first place?

Not surprised to see you resort to ad hominem, the fallback for people who can't make a coherent argument.

[DonDadda59]

If Obama wasn't black, he wouldn't be president. Seriously, so many people just voted for Obama because he was black.

Everybody (mostly blacks) talks about happy they are that they finally have a black president but they never talk about how he is going to be a good president and will fix things.

So he was initially elected... and then reelected (that's elected twice, I know some people here need to be bludgeoned with simple concepts before grasping them)... solely because he was Black? Not because the majority of people, regardless of race, felt he was a better alternative to McCain/crazy Alaska milf and Mr. 1% of the 1%? Story checks out I guess.

Now if only the country could return to the glory days of the Jackson era. Keep hope alive!

http://www.4president.org/jessejackson1984.gif

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/JESSE-JACKSON-1988-pin-button-pinback-President-/24/!B4FHV-wBGk~$(KGrHqUOKj8Ey,iz4WEyBMoiFSnc4Q~~_35.JPG

F@cking idiots :facepalm

[longhornfan1234]

So he was initially elected... and then reelected (that's elected twice, I know some people here need to be bludgeoned with simple concepts before grasping them)... solely because he was Black? Not because the majority of people, regardless of race, felt he was a better alternative to McCain/crazy Alaska milf and Mr. 1% of the 1%? Story checks out I guess.

Now if only the country could return to the glory days of the Jackson era. Keep hope alive!

http://www.4president.org/jessejackson1984.gif

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/JESSE-JACKSON-1988-pin-button-pinback-President-/24/!B4FHV-wBGk~$(KGrHqUOKj8Ey,iz4WEyBMoiFSnc4Q~~_35.JPG

F@cking idiots :facepalm


Is that a rainbow? COME ON, MAN. :roll: :roll:

[DonDadda59]

Is that a rainbow? COME ON, MAN. :roll: :roll:

Rainbow coalition brah. All races united under the 2 term presidency of another candidate who was elected TWICE solely because he was Black. Study your History. Alan Keyes and Herman Cain just missed the cut doe, inexplicable :confusedshrug:

[zoom17]

They are practically the same thing. Republicans are fvcking retarded so I supported the Democrats and they ended up being the same thing

This

[Jello]

the banking deregulation and the war on Iraq are what led to the collapse of the economy. And Congress believed that Iraq had WMD's which was nothing but a Bush Administration lie.

Still waiting to hear you explain why Federal employment has gone down even though you claim that "Obama's policy is to create as many government jobs/dependents as possible, necessary or unnecessary." I won't hold my breath.
product of a democrat president; Clinton.

[tontoz]

product of a democrat president; Clinton.



Clinton wasn't in office when the Glass-Steagall Act was gutted. Certainly he deserves blame for Fannie/Freddie.

[KevinNYC]

Clinton wasn't in office when the Glass-Steagall Act was gutted. Certainly he deserves blame for Fannie/Freddie.

Yes. He Was.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act

The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act was signed by Bill Clinton in 1999 and his Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin supported it. He also supported not regulating the derivatives market. The same financial instruments that exploded a decade later.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Like i said, still waiting on your response about Federal jobs going down under Obama..

Holy shit. You are going Full Retard.


Federal jobs have gone UP under Obama. Someone else in this very thread proved it with a link, and I even quoted and HIGHLIGHTED the statistic from the link.

It would be one thing if theyd just gone down a little. Local and state jobs have shrunk drastically because they cant print their own money and stall the problem. They have to cut jobs or go bankrupt. But Obama has actually been adding jobs to the government tab during a recession. Imagine a company adding a bunch of jobs when theyre bleeding money. Meanwhile Obama prints money to make the fake jobs to keep the Democrats happy. You are a seriously dumb ****. You are too busy with yor anti bush, partisan agenda to stop and think about whats good for the AMERICAN economy. You dummy.

[KevinNYC]

Holy shit. You are going Full Retard.


Federal jobs have gone UP under Obama. Someone else in this very thread proved it with a link, and I even quoted and HIGHLIGHTED the statistic from the link.

It would be one thing if theyd just gone down a little. Local and state jobs have shrunk drastically because they cant print their own money and stall the problem. They have to cut jobs or go bankrupt. But Obama has actually been adding jobs to the government tab during a recession. Imagine a company adding a bunch of jobs when theyre bleeding money. Meanwhile Obama prints money to make the fake jobs to keep the Democrats happy. You are a seriously dumb ****. You are too busy with yor anti bush, partisan agenda to stop and think about whats good for the AMERICAN economy. You dummy.

Yeah you missed a post.


Also the fact is that federal goverment payrolls are down overall since Obama took office which demolishes your point about Obama's plan. In
Jan 2009 there were 2,772,000 federal employees. The latest month we have the data for is May 2013 when there were 2,757,000. You can check these numbers on the BLS website. Go here and just select "Federal" to get the numbers
http://www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cesbtab1.htm

I also called you out for lying about me in that post.

[tontoz]

He didn't miss your post he is just ignoring it just like he ignores the fact that the Iraq War was started due to the Bush lie about WMDs in Iraq.

Their own inspectors said there was no evidence of WMDs but they continued to lie so Dubya could get Sadam and finish what daddy started.

[Electric Slide]

So he was initially elected... and then reelected (that's elected twice, I know some people here need to be bludgeoned with simple concepts before grasping them)... solely because he was Black? Not because the majority of people, regardless of race, felt he was a better alternative to McCain/crazy Alaska milf and Mr. 1% of the 1%? Story checks out I guess.

Now if only the country could return to the glory days of the Jackson era. Keep hope alive!

F@cking idiots :facepalm
Oh no. He should have won and become president because he was the lesser of two evils but he won as easily as he did because he was black and nothing more.

Being black is more hip in today's society than it was in the past. That is why we are seeing an uprise of white guys listening to rap music and trying to be black.

It's mainly because blacks are ultra sensitive though. If you say anything demeaning to them they'll accuse you of being racist and they'll win every time. You pretty much have to put them on a pedestal, otherwise you are a racist.

[Rasheed1]

Oh no. He should have won and become president because he was the lesser of two evils but he won as easily as he did because he was black and nothing more.

Being black is more hip in today's society than it was in the past. That is why we are seeing an uprise of white guys listening to rap music and trying to be black.

It's mainly because blacks are ultra sensitive though. If you say anything demeaning to them they'll accuse you of being racist and they'll win every time. You pretty much have to put them on a pedestal, otherwise you are a racist.


:facepalm

blacks are 13% of the population.. you gotta give a better answer than that..

that is a 5th grader's response to the issue :oldlol: are you in 5th grade?

[DonDadda59]

Oh no. He should have won and become president because he was the lesser of two evils but he won as easily as he did because he was black and nothing more.

Being black is more hip in today's society than it was in the past. That is why we are seeing an uprise of white guys listening to rap music and trying to be black.

It's mainly because blacks are ultra sensitive though. If you say anything demeaning to them they'll accuse you of being racist and they'll win every time. You pretty much have to put them on a pedestal, otherwise you are a racist.

So what you're saying, in a nutshell-

No one paid even the slightest attention to the billion dollar campaigns Obama and his people orchestrated. You know, the whole 'Hope' and 'Change' centered rhetoric. Disregarded all of his speeches, debate content, TV ads, editorials, etc.

They took one look at him and thought 'hey, I'm a White guy who listens to rap and wants to be Black now that it's cool, wouldn't want to offend any ultra sensitive Black people by voting for McCain/Romney in this confidential ballot process'.

Seriously? This is what you think happened... 65-70 million times... twice.

Seriously?

:biggums:

[DonDadda59]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/972/128757017089385611.jpg

[COnDEMnED]

Do you have cancer on the tip of your dick? What's with the odd black pigmentation? It's in the shape of a giant foam finger...you should get your shit checked out...

[OldSkoolball#52]

So what you're saying, in a nutshell-

No one paid even the slightest attention to the billion dollar campaigns Obama and his people orchestrated. You know, the whole 'Hope' and 'Change' centered rhetoric. Disregarded all of his speeches, debate content, TV ads, editorials, etc.


I understand your point that he was on the Democratic ticket and thus would automatically get lots of votes, plus his campaign slogans and personal rhetoric and for a host of other reasons.




They took one look at him and thought 'hey, I'm a White guy who listens to rap and wants to be Black now that it's cool, wouldn't want to offend any ultra sensitive Black people by voting for McCain/Romney in this confidential ballot process'.


But you are grossly underestimating how much this happened too. Especially among women and on college campuses. Soooo many white people wanted to be SEEN supporting Obama. They wanna feel like they are the black community's big bro, like somebody out there depends on them. They have a very mothering, nurturing instinct. Thats why women vote Dem and so do pansy men. Thatts the truth. Conservatives are typically the personalities who go out and get things done, libs are the emos who sit at home nurturing the little ones and worrying and feeling hormonal and insecure. True facts.

Of course college libs dont go out and volunteer in the black community, they dont pay attention to important legislation, or try to promote values that the black community could use. They instead just cry 'racism' (probably more often and more inaccurately than most black folks) because they want to LOOK like theyre the tolerance police. They wanna be seen doin it. Its their quest for personal identity.

[Electric Slide]

So what you're saying, in a nutshell-

No one paid even the slightest attention to the billion dollar campaigns Obama and his people orchestrated. You know, the whole 'Hope' and 'Change' centered rhetoric. Disregarded all of his speeches, debate content, TV ads, editorials, etc.

They took one look at him and thought 'hey, I'm a White guy who listens to rap and wants to be Black now that it's cool, wouldn't want to offend any ultra sensitive Black people by voting for McCain/Romney in this confidential ballot process'.

Seriously? This is what you think happened... 65-70 million times... twice.

Seriously?

:biggums:
Yes.

Hope and Change had to do with the fact that everybody "hoped" and wanted to "change" the fact that we will finally have a black president.

Then factor in people that actually like his political views and that is why he has won as easily as he did.

People that like his political views + 99.9% of the black population's votes = landslide victory

[DonDadda59]

Do you actually believe anything that you typed? :lol

Obama wasn't even the first Black candidate to run for the presidency, all of the others from the 70s on (ie, Jackson, Sharpton, Keyes, Chisolm, Cain) Never made it past the primary stage. I guess 2008 was when ******ism and liberal pansy pandering reached their zenith?

Cocaine's a helluva drug.

[Electric Slide]

Obama wasn't even the first Black candidate to run for the presidency, all of the others from the 70s on (ie, Jackson, Sharpton, Keyes, Chisolm, Cain) Never made it past the primary stage. I guess 2008 was when ******ism and liberal pansy pandering reached their zenith?.
Yes.

It's hip to be black in today's society primarily because of how ultra sensitive blacks are, so if you don't completely follow black people you are a racist.

But like I said, his political views got him there too. I'm just saying he won as easily as he did because he was black. A lot of people voted for him because he was black and nothing more, mostly blacks themselves.

[COnDEMnED]

Yes.

It's hip to be black in today's society primarily because of how ultra sensitive blacks are, so if you don't completely follow black people you are a racist.

But like I said, his political views got him there too. I'm just saying he won as easily as he did because he was black. A lot of people voted for him because he was black and nothing more, mostly blacks themselves.
Also young white college kids wanted to say to their grandkids, "I'm in the history books, I voted for the first black President." Like a social status type thing. Maybe that example is just a small percentage, but I believe it to have some relevance, some form of truth to it.

[bdreason]

George W. Bush was possibly the worst president in the history of the United States. Obama is going to have to fukc up a lot more over the next few years to even be mentioned in the same sentence as George W.

[Nick Young]

Yes.

It's hip to be black in today's society primarily because of how ultra sensitive blacks are, so if you don't completely follow black people you are a racist.

But like I said, his political views got him there too. I'm just saying he won as easily as he did because he was black. A lot of people voted for him because he was black and nothing more, mostly blacks themselves.
Christ I forgot how racist America still is. I'm glad I moved out.

You people are overrating race so much in this equation.
Stop trying to find a race war IN EVERYTHING.
You are underrating Obama. He is a great speech maker he is a brilliant campaigner.


Obama is one of the greatest orators in modern times. The whole marketing campaign around him was about how he was going to bring
hope and change-this combined with his awesome speeches did a lot.

Bush and Kerry for example sucked at giving speeches, so this new young guy comes in and gives amazing speeches, kind of makes you assume he's going to be amazing at everything else.

He promised so many amazing things. He acted really honest. On top of that he's a really intelligent and charismatic guy and came across as witty and cool in all of his interviews and debates. He seemed like he knew what he was doing, especially compared to Bush.

Obama is a great campaigner I dont think any of us can deny that. He won because of his speeches and the marketing campaign surrounding him. He even convinced Scandanavia to award him the Nobel Prize for Peace before he even did anything, based on his speeches alone.

He really did create good PR for America, even now that he's proved himself to be a shit president and war monger people still are always telling me they like America now because Obama.
Stop seeing a race-war in everything morons. It sounds really backwards. If Obama was Japanese American or Mexican-American or Navajo-American he would have done equally well.

[Electric Slide]

Christ I forgot how racist America still is. I'm glad I moved out.

You people are overrating race so much in this equation.
Stop trying to find a race war IN EVERYTHING.
You are underrating Obama. He is a great speech maker he is a brilliant campaigner.
Oh yeah, I forgot, race is irrelevant when blacks are favored but when blacks don't get their way it's racism.

[Nick Young]

Oh yeah, I forgot, race is irrelevant when blacks are favored but when blacks don't get their way it's racism.
If Obama was white he would have won as well. Hell, he is basically half white anyways, isn't he. Race has nothing to do with if you're a good president or not. I refuse to believe that it has anything to do with winning presidential elections in America in this day and age.

Obama is a Yale graduate and one of the greatest orators orators of the 20th century.

Oratory is what won him the elections. It is a lost art in modern politics and Obama brought it back.

Get out of the past people. Stop with this 1970s race war bullshit. Move on.

[Electric Slide]

If Obama was white he would have won as well. Hell, he is basically half white anyways, isn't he. Race has nothing to do with if you're a good president or not. I refuse to believe that it has anything to do with winning presidential elections in America in this day and age.

Obama is a Yale graduate and one of the greatest orators orators of the 20th century.

Oratory is what won him the elections. It is a lost art in modern politics and Obama brought it back.

Get out of the past people. Stop with this 1970s race war bullshit. Move on.
Most whites and people that understand politics voted for him for that reason. The ******s and black people just voted for him because he is black though.

It's the truth.

[boozehound]

I understand your point that he was on the Democratic ticket and thus would automatically get lots of votes, plus his campaign slogans and personal rhetoric and for a host of other reasons.




But you are grossly underestimating how much this happened too. Especially among women and on college campuses. Soooo many white people wanted to be SEEN supporting Obama. They wanna feel like they are the black community's big bro, like somebody out there depends on them. They have a very mothering, nurturing instinct. Thats why women vote Dem and so do pansy men. Thatts the truth. Conservatives are typically the personalities who go out and get things done, libs are the emos who sit at home nurturing the little ones and worrying and feeling hormonal and insecure. True facts.

Of course college libs dont go out and volunteer in the black community, they dont pay attention to important legislation, or try to promote values that the black community could use. They instead just cry 'racism' (probably more often and more inaccurately than most black folks) because they want to LOOK like theyre the tolerance police. They wanna be seen doin it. Its their quest for personal identity.
This is so much bullshit.

Repubs get things done while whiny lib emos are all jobless losers huh?
Then why are the redstates the biggest users of the welfare system?
http://media2.policymic.com/fdc1b63cc7e9bae9f22ab2fd6c928b69.png
Why do the lib states pay more in federal taxes than they get back in federal services (and vice versa for red states)?
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/give-take-small-final.png


There is some kernel of fact (as is the case in most hyperbole), and some people probably voted for him to seem "cool", but you are completely ignoring the disenfranchisement of fiscal conservatives by the neo-con and teaparty takeover of the repub party. I know many former repubs who were completely turned off by the evangelical, anti-science, moral agenda of the recent national republican campaigns.

[travelingman]

Christ I forgot how racist America still is. I'm glad I moved out.

You people are overrating race so much in this equation.
Stop trying to find a race war IN EVERYTHING.
You are underrating Obama. He is a great speech maker he is a brilliant campaigner.


Obama is one of the greatest orators in modern times. The whole marketing campaign around him was about how he was going to bring
hope and change-this combined with his awesome speeches did a lot.

Bush and Kerry for example sucked at giving speeches, so this new young guy comes in and gives amazing speeches, kind of makes you assume he's going to be amazing at everything else.

He promised so many amazing things. He acted really honest. On top of that he's a really intelligent and charismatic guy and came across as witty and cool in all of his interviews and debates. He seemed like he knew what he was doing, especially compared to Bush.

Obama is a great campaigner I dont think any of us can deny that. He won because of his speeches and the marketing campaign surrounding him. He even convinced Scandanavia to award him the Nobel Prize for Peace before he even did anything, based on his speeches alone.

He really did create good PR for America, even now that he's proved himself to be a shit president and war monger people still are always telling me they like America now because Obama.
Stop seeing a race-war in everything morons. It sounds really backwards. If Obama was Japanese American or Mexican-American or Navajo-American he would have done equally well.

Not true.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-01-20/opinions/35439712_1_barack-obama-tarp-bailout-buffett-rule

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/essay-deconstructing-barack-obama-orator

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-01-24-obamaorations_N.htm

[Flash31]

Its like comparing a crap and a turd
or the stench of a skunk or rotten eggs

Either way,Obama and Bush are two of the Worst Presidents in History.
Both have been extremely horrible and both were elected twiceand Both have did worse their 2nd term,just getting worse and worse.

Obama got elected bc he was a Democrat,promised change,jobs,
was younger,people were sick of Republicans after Bush's mistakes,and he appealed to the people
a younger,biracial president who knows the current generation
and can appeal to their needs,yet

Hes just the other side of the pile of crap between a coin of Bush and Obama.

[Nick Young]

Not true.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-01-20/opinions/35439712_1_barack-obama-tarp-bailout-buffett-rule

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/essay-deconstructing-barack-obama-orator

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-01-24-obamaorations_N.htm
Articles saying that Obama isn't a good orator aren't going to convince me that he isn't.

I get pumped up listening to his speeches still, and I hate the guy.

[travelingman]

Articles saying that Obama isn't a good orator aren't going to convince me that he isn't.

I get pumped up listening to his speeches still, and I hate the guy.

I wasn't contending that he isn't a good orator, I was countering your point that he is one of the greatest in modern times.