Jordan vs Lebron: first 10 years in the league

[TheMarkMadsen]

MVPs:

MJ: 3

[Spaulding]

Didn't read. Bron has to finish his career before a serious debate of who is the GOAT.

[talkingconch]

MJ in top 10: #1

Lebron in Top 10: N/A

all depends on how he finishes. 5-6 Rings is a must.

only reason his stans ride him so hard on ISH and in general is because he was crowned ''King'' at the beginning and had massive failures before finally winning one, so they make it seem like he won every year

[Soundwave]

MJ's 11.4 apg in the '91 Finals is still mind boggling to me. He totally did it to troll Magic :lol

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Where are the playoff stats?

[poido123]

Where are the playoff stats?

You wouldn't be able to make an accurate comparison between the two because Lebron's 2011 finals statsheet would read either 'Gone Missing', 'Missing in Action' or 'Disappeared'.

Is that trolling? :hammerhead:

[HoopsFanNumero1]

You wouldn't be able to make an accurate comparison between the two because Lebron's 2011 finals statsheet would read either 'Gone Missing', 'Missing in Action' or 'Disappeared'.

Is that trolling? :hammerhead:

The hell are you talking about?

[Trollsmasher]

The hell are you talking about?
He is retarded. Don't even bother to react.

[Legends66NBA7]

You wouldn't be able to make an accurate comparison between the two because Lebron's 2011 finals statsheet would read either 'Gone Missing', 'Missing in Action' or 'Disappeared'.

Is that trolling? :hammerhead:

I think he means the playoff stats from both their first 10 years, not just there Finals years.

[DirkNowitzki41]

This isnt biased towards MJ.

[Legends66NBA7]

Jordan: 34.4ppg 6.7rpg 6.5apg 2.3spg 1bpg 3.4tpg 49.9%fg 35.4%3pt 83.3%ft

James: 28.1ppg 8.6rpg 6.7apg 1.7spg 0.9bpg 3.5tpg 47.2%fg 32.2%3pt 74.9%ft

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Jordan: 34.4ppg 6.7rpg 6.5apg 2.3spg 1bpg 3.4tpg 49.9%fg 35.4%3pt 83.3%ft

James: 28.1ppg 8.6rpg 6.7apg 1.7spg 0.9bpg 3.5tpg 47.2%fg 32.2%3pt 74.9%ft

Thanks. I doubt anyone actually thinks Lebron had the better first 10 years compared to Jordan.

[russwest0]

You wouldn't be able to make an accurate comparison between the two because Lebron's 2011 finals statsheet would read either 'Gone Missing', 'Missing in Action' or 'Disappeared'.

Is that trolling? :hammerhead:


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

It's funny because it's true.

LeFlop hasn't even come close to the level of dominance that MJ had during his 3 peat. Add in the fact that he's had the biggest NBA choke job ever and I find it HILARIOUS when LeFlop gets compared to Jordan

[CeltsGarlic]

Some people might argue that this is the most important stat ever
"Scoring Title and Steals Title in the same season"

[jlip]

Championships:

MJ: 3 in 3 tries

LBJ: 2 in 4 tries




What the heck is this? So in 10 seasons MJ only tried to win a championship 3 times, and Lebron only tried 4 times? You only try when you make it to the Finals I guess.
I know what you're trying to say, but it's just ridiculous.

[arifgokcen]

What the heck is this? So in 10 seasons MJ only tried to win a championship 3 times, and Lebron only tried 4 times? You only try when you make it to the Finals I guess.
I know what you're trying to say, but it's just ridiculous.
nice1

[russwest0]

With LeBron, why don't ppl compare this ***** to Magic or Pippen instead?

Both would have won at least 2/3 titles with the same supporting cast these past three years, wouldn't have choked that badly in 2011, and have much closer playstyles to LBJ than LBJ has to Michael ****ing Jordan.

None of the guys listed are flopping clowns though except LBJ. Kind of sad when you see all of the names LBJ gets mentioned with and none of them are floppers. LBJ is a disgrace to this league

[Legends66NBA7]

What the heck is this? So in 10 seasons MJ only tried to win a championship 3 times, and Lebron only tried 4 times? You only try when you make it to the Finals I guess.
I know what you're trying to say, but it's just ridiculous.

Yeah, that should be excluded. It's just a team stat. Only context needed is the individual production.

[TheMarkMadsen]

What the heck is this? So in 10 seasons MJ only tried to win a championship 3 times, and Lebron only tried 4 times? You only try when you make it to the Finals I guess.
I know what you're trying to say, but it's just ridiculous.


Nit picking a little?

You know exactly what that means and why that inspired a paragraph out of you ill never know

3 in 3 finals appearances

2 in 4 finals appearances

Happy?

[Legends66NBA7]

Nit picking a little?

You know exactly what that means and why that inspired a paragraph out of you ill never know

3 in 3 finals appearances

2 in 4 finals appearances

Happy?

So just state Finals MVP's according to their actual production in those series and leave "appearances" to their respective teams ?

:confusedshrug:

[branslowski]

So just state Finals MVP's according to their actual production in those series and leave "appearances" to their respective teams ?

:confusedshrug:

You must be a LeBron stan:lol

[TheMarkMadsen]

So just state Finals MVP's according to their actual production in those series and leave "appearances" to their respective teams ?

:confusedshrug:


I mean out of everything that was posted, all the numbers and interesting comparisons between finals and regular season stats.. this particular arrangement of words is what draws your guys interest?

Seems petty.

Besides I copied and pasted this and deleted a bunch of stuff that was critical of Lebron just to appease his fans, and left it to facts & stats only

You guys wanna whine about semantics? Take it up with this guy

http://swishnba.wordpress.com/2013/06/22/mj-vs-lebron-10-year-comparison/

[Legends66NBA7]

You must be a LeBron stan:lol

How ?

Not like your the first person to say that about me, but I've been called stans of other players too, including Jordan. I can't be stanning them both here.

[Legends66NBA7]

I mean out of everything that was posted, all the numbers and interesting comparisons between finals and regular season stats.. this particular arrangement of words is what draws your guys interest?

Seems petty.

Besides I copied and pasted this and deleted a bunch of stuff that was critical of Lebron just to appease his fans, and left it to facts & stats only

You guys wanna whine about semantics? Take it up with this guy

http://swishnba.wordpress.com/2013/06/22/mj-vs-lebron-10-year-comparison/

Check your PM.

[plowking]

This isnt biased towards MJ.

:oldlol:

I was thinking the same thing. You can nitpick the way you present stats.

There really is not point in these threads, since everyone can skew stats to make it look favorable in one way, and we know the OP isn't exactly the most bias free poster on the board.

[TheMarkMadsen]

:oldlol:

I was thinking the same thing. You can nitpick the way you present stats.

There really is not point in these threads, since everyone can skew stats to make it look favorable in one way, and we know the OP isn't exactly the most bias free poster on the board.


How is it bias? Go ahead and strip away the "season with FMVP, MVP scoring title etc etc" stuff out and just leave it with the numbers

Is it biased to give their finals averages for each year? Is it biased to put their regular season numbers in there too?

I really don't see how you can compare finals numbers and say its biased. I guarantee if Lebrons name was next to Jordan's finals averages you would see no "bias"

[funnystuff]

Age 28.

http://i.minus.com/i9pmA4wBoK8AB.gif


Not Lebrons fault Jordan wasn't good enough to get drafted from high school.

[pauk]

Championships:

MJ: 3 in 3 tries

LBJ: 2 in 4 tries


I really cant believe some people are willing to fit their agenda so much to go as far as to post this x out of x in the Finals crap all the time.... do you even comprehend what you are doing? First of all setting your foot in the playoffs is a TRY for a championship and no its not more prestigious to lose in the 1st round than it is to lose in the Finals...

What you are doing is only discrediting/ignoring actual context... context where a guy can be taking a horrible team to the Finals all the time due to the greatest individual performances in NBA history, but gets discredited because he didnt win the Finals.... to bad........ and there is context in which a player loses in the 1st round his entire life because due to possible detrimental individual play with even greater teams just to one day have an even more stacked team and be in the Finals for the first time in his life and be.... "1 of 1 in the Finals".... awesome....

Fantastic logic...

[Legends66NBA7]

I really cant believe some people are willing to fit their agenda so much to go as far as to post this x out of x in the Finals crap all the time.... do you even comprehend what you are doing?

Why don't you go to the link MarkMadsen put out to the guy he used it from and ask him instead ?

:confusedshrug:

[russwest0]

Lol @ using age when one played 3 years in college.

LeFlop fans are the worst

[gts]

Not Lebrons fault Jordan wasn't good enough to get drafted from high school.

:facepalm

Go learn the history of the NBA draft and why Kevin Garnett in 1995 was the first high schooler drafted in something like 25 years

[diamenz]

stats and rings aside, lebron can never match what mj did on the court. quality post, op.

[SamuraiSWISH]

First 10 seasons?

MJ > LeBron

[KG215]

I really cant believe some people are willing to fit their agenda so much to go as far as to post this x out of x in the Finals crap all the time.... do you even comprehend what you are doing? First of all setting your foot in the playoffs is a TRY for a championship and no its not more prestigious to lose in the 1st round than it is to lose in the Finals...

:oldlol:

Says the guy that did side-by-side resume comparisons between LeBron, Jerry West, and Oscar Robertson and wonder why people were calling him out for including POTM awards...an award that didn't exist during West's and Oscar's playing days.

[RoseCity07]

I'm never going to understand LeBron haters. He's great and a good teammate. There is nothing in his game to hate on. He isn't a chucker. How can you hate on a superstar with his numbers...it's just sad really.

[Doranku]

[quote]Conclusion:

Michael Jordan

[Asukal]

I'm never going to understand LeBron haters. He's great and a good teammate. There is nothing in his game to hate on. He isn't a chucker. How can you hate on a superstar with his numbers...it's just sad really.

:biggums:
:facepalm
:roll: :roll: :roll:

What about all that flopping and disappearing act? lol.....
I used to have massive respect for LBJ back when he was starting, until the hype got into his head, one thing lead to another then I just couldn't like him anymore specially with all these obnoxious stans around. :facepalm

[SamuraiSWISH]

[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]
Conclusion:

Michael Jordan

[Rose'sACL]

:biggums:
:facepalm
:roll: :roll: :roll:

What about all that flopping and disappearing act? lol.....
I used to have massive respect for LBJ back when he was starting, until the hype got into his head, one thing lead to another then I just couldn't like him anymore specially with all these obnoxious stans around. :facepalm
while i don't think lebron is even close to jordan till now, i do think that jordan was the worse of the 2 off the court. He was just a better basketball player.
Also, talking about abnoxious stans, Jordan is a retired player and there are more than enough jordan stans here. If jordan was playing right now, Jordan stans would be the worst of all time. Also, Bulls had the most number of bandwagon fans when jordan was playing and still people talk about Heat having the most bandwagon fans when the anti-heat bandwagon is much more bigger.

[dunksby]

There has been quite an effort by LBJ stans to bring him up to MJ's level recently, I approve of the theme of this thread.

[Lebron23]

Someone downgraded Lebron FG's in the finals. He's actually shooting 44.5 FG%. Not as bad a Kobe's 40.5 FG%.

[Lebron23]

:biggums:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

:pimp:


Some of these numbers were downgraded by the OP. Pauk needs to post LBJ's real Finals stats in this thread.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Some of these numbers were downgraded by the OP. Pauk needs to post LBJ's real Finals stats in this thread.
Either way, what's the difference? MJ's '91 - '93 Finals stats MOLLY WHOP the shit out of LeBron's pathetic accumulative stats from 2007, 2011, 2012, and 2013.

[Trollsmasher]

So why are we even discussing this when OP is purposely lying in his stats?

It's obvious MJ's 1st ten years were better. But we could do this for age and end up with LeBron. Guess it depends on the agenda.

[dunksby]

So why are we even discussing this when OP is purposely lying in his stats?

It's obvious MJ's 1st ten years were better. But we could do this for age and end up with LeBron. Guess it depends on the agenda.
Career year is valid while age is invalid when comparing two players playing under different regulations.

[East_Stone_Ya]

would be accurate to compare once Lebron retires!

[Scholar]

Damn. Both had phenomenal careers, and the amazing thing is that LeBron is probably just at the half-way point of his career.

:applause:

[Scholar]

would be accurate to compare once Lebron retires!

Umm... What?

This isn't a career comparison; it's a "first 10 years" comparison.

[Mr Exlax]

My opinion is that both players are really fuggin good.

[guy]

So why are we even discussing this when OP is purposely lying in his stats?

It's obvious MJ's 1st ten years were better. But we could do this for age and end up with LeBron. Guess it depends on the agenda.

Where is he lying?

[Fresh Kid]

:lol :oldlol: :roll: lebron wished his first ten years were better than Jordan, man his first ten years aren't better than kobe for crying out loud. what a dumbass question man:oldlol:

[CanYouDigIt]

:lol :oldlol: :roll: lebron wished his first ten years were better than Jordan, man his first ten years aren't better than kobe for crying out loud. what a dumbass question man:oldlol:


Guess who's trophy case is this?

http://cdn.content.compendiumblog.com/uploads/user/2bd9d9ab-449b-4821-acac-a6196f1a3ed2/82e770da-a511-46b6-8630-3161716b81e7/Image/e6927f6e879f841a98bebfc3b4eda40a.jpg

[Fresh Kid]

Guess who's trophy case is this?

http://cdn.content.compendiumblog.com/uploads/user/2bd9d9ab-449b-4821-acac-a6196f1a3ed2/82e770da-a511-46b6-8630-3161716b81e7/Image /e6927f6e879f841a98bebfc3b4eda40a.jpg
your moms?:lol

[grantz]

Scoring Title and MVP in the same season:
MJ: 3
LBJ: 0

Scoring Title and Steals Title in the same season:
MJ: 3
LBJ: 0

Scoring Title, MVP and Finals MVP in the same season:
MJ: 2
LBJ: 0

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I hate Jordan so much since I'm a laker fan but it's hard to argue these statistics.

LeBron is an absolutely phenomenal player -- however his individual accomplishments are nowhere near that of Jordan.

We may never see anyone top Jordan -- for such a douchebag, he left pretty big shoes to fill.

[SamuraiSWISH]

We may never see anyone top Jordan -- for such a douchebag, he left pretty big shoes to fill.
Wait, MJ's a douche bag because he left HUGE Nikes to fill? Ummm, ok.

[Fresh Kid]

Scoring Title and MVP in the same season:
MJ: 3
LBJ: 0

Scoring Title and Steals Title in the same season:
MJ: 3
LBJ: 0

Scoring Title, MVP and Finals MVP in the same season:
MJ: 2
LBJ: 0

.
all of tha Lebron stans just got ethered:roll:

[Dragonyeuw]

I'm not sure how comparing their first ten years in the league, achievement-wise, is remotely apples to apples. Jordan's first ten years in the league( 84-95), he was competing against the following with their MVP award and seasons won:

Magic( 3 MVPs 87,89,90)
Bird (3 MVPs, 84,85,86)
Shaq
Hakeem (1 MVP 94 with Jordan 'retired')
Barkley( 1 MVP 93)
Admiral (1 MVP 95, Jordan's mid season comeback)
Malone
Drexler
Isiah
Stockton

These guys are historical-level GOAT players at their respective positions and in the annals of basketball history.

Not to take away from Lebron's greatness, but in 10 years, this has been his primary MVP competition:

An aging Kobe Bryant ( 1 MVP 2008)
Aging Garnett (1 MVP 2004)
Aging Duncan
Aging Dirk(1 MVP 2007)
Wade
Derrick Rose for one season (1 MVP 2011)
Melo (LOL)
Durant ( legit)
Howard (LMAO)

The only players on that list at or closing in on the level of Jordan's primary competition from the outset of his career through his peak/prime, are the bolded: Kobe and Duncan, followed by Garnett and Dirk, all of whom were/are exiting their peaks as Lebron entered his MVP prime( and even then, Lebron with a prime Wade and Bosh lost to Dirk in the final year of his prime, leading a team with the likes of 50 year old Jason Kidd and 40 year old Jason Terry). And Durant, who is on his way but not there yet. Wade's lone SERIOUS MVP season in 2009 was overshadowed by Lebron The reality is there is ONE legitimate MVP contender to Lebron at this point and onwards, and it's Durant.

The number of MVP winners in Jordan's first 10 years: 9

The number of MVP winners in Lebron's first 10 years: 4

[305Baller]

I love LeBron but ...

Jordan wins again.

[KungFuJoe]

NBA Dunk contests won:

Jordan: 2
Lebron: N/A

[Frozen1]

The thing that got my attention is the MASSIVE drop of overall stats and FG% of lebron between reg. season and finals, while MJ stats are almost the same.

You have a 10 ppg dropoff in 2011 and a 11% dropoff of FG% in 2013. Actually the only great nba finals by lebron is 2012.

[Unbiased_one]

All the stats given are pretty much meaningless. Jordan played in a much higher pace era in his early career. Also, Jordan entered the nba after college, lebron did not, so to compare their first ten years is totally misleading. Not that I think lebron will ever surpass Jordan, but this is a really stupid comparison to make.

[CelticBaller]

I can't see why would anyone would argue in favor of LeBron tbh

[CanYouDigIt]

your moms?:lol
http://memecrunch.com/meme/6AA7/melo-no-ring/image.png

[Lebron23]

http://memecrunch.com/meme/6AA7/melo-no-ring/image.png


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Not even an NBA Finals appearance.

[kNicKz]

Before Lebron got a ring Lebron23 wrote essays about how players aren't defined by finals series and now that Lebron has 2 rings the only way he evaluates players is by post season success

Houston, we have a dickrider

With his current evaluation method in 2008 Lebron would be a ringless loser and choker, but of course we all know that wasn't quite the case

[SamuraiSWISH]

With his current evaluation method in 2008 Lebron would be a ringless loser and choker, but of course we all know that wasn't quite the case
He was only 23 years old at that point though. He was a loser circa in 2010, and 2011. Justifiably so, clearly in his prime and quitting on huge stages causing his team to lose.

[TheMan]

Damn. Both had phenomenal careers, and the amazing thing is that LeBron is probably just at the half-way point of his career.

:applause:
20 year career? No fukking way. LBJ started early and his decline will start early because of the heavy mileage he'll have accumulated. Unless Bron want's to be an old azz bench guy averaging 8 pts a game in 16 mins. I don't see him doing that at 38 with the money he'll have by that point. Who wants to see that? SMH at going out like Shaq:facepalmIt was really sad seeing an old fat injury prone Shaq having no impact on a game when in his prime he was destroying the league and you stans want to see old LeBron get merked by punks who only got youth on him.

[secund2nun]

Age matters, not years pro. Lebron was 18 when he turned pro.

[Fresh Kid]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Not even an NBA Finals appearance.
meanwhile, without wade and bosh lebron has no rings:roll: and he lied about participating at tha 2010 Dunking competition on national tv, what a scared bitch:roll: :roll:

[Nash]

4 finals appearances for Lebron, nice.

[nathanjizzle]

now lets be real here. the only category he beats jordan out is mvps and lebron would only have 3 mvps if rose wasnt injured.

[Dragonyeuw]

The thing that got my attention is the MASSIVE drop of overall stats and FG% of lebron between reg. season and finals, while MJ stats are almost the same.

In pretty much all cases except 1996, his stats actually increased from regular season. In fact, Jordan's worst finals performance is statistically on par with Kobe's career finals average. I won't even bother looking up Lebron's finals numbers, we just know that in 4 finals he's stunk it up in 2( I can forgive 2007 but 2011 is inexcusable). Prime MJ never stunk it up as bad as the 2011 finals performance from Lebron.

In terms of performance with the stakes high, there is little comparison.

[russwest0]

So what we've all learned from this thread.

Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LeBron

As if we needed proof

[russwest0]

4 finals appearances for Lebron, nice.

Really, I saw someone say he was in the Finals with Cleveland vs the Spurs and in the Finals his first year in Miami but I watched them and never saw LeBron show up at all

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[Unbiased_one]

So what we've all learned from this thread.

Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LeBron

As if we needed proof

This is a really stupid comparison. Jordan was coming out of college in his first season, lebron was not. Jordan played in a very high paced era. This is like when kobe/lebron stans try to make something out of the fact that they were youngest to 20k points (and other milestones) when in reality it's cause they had more years in the nba

[CanYouDigIt]

meanwhile, without wade and bosh lebron has no rings:roll: and he lied about participating at tha 2010 Dunking competition on national tv, what a scared bitch:roll: :roll:

Without Pippen, Jordan has no rings.

Without PJAX, Kobe has no rings.

Without anyone, Melo has no rings

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lebowski.gif

[CanYouDigIt]

Really, I saw someone say he was in the Finals with Cleveland vs the Spurs and in the Finals his first year in Miami but I watched them and never saw LeBron show up at all

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
He sure did show up for this :oldlol:

http://cdn.ientry.com/sites/webpronews/article_pics/jumparoundlebron.gif

[TonyMontana]

Penalize LeBron for being able to dominate NBA players straight out of high school? :roll:

http://oi40.tinypic.com/99m8lw.jpg



"But he had extra seasons!!!" Alright lets bring your boy Kobe into it who had that same "advantage".



http://oi43.tinypic.com/28ioo49.jpg

:roll:

[Jameerthefear]

Jordan really is the GOAT :applause:

[Fresh Kid]

Jordan really is the GOAT :applause:
thank you young one.

[Unbiased_one]

Jordan really is the GOAT :applause:

Look MJ is pretty clearly in the top 2, but I can't look past Russell. He came onto a non-playoff team, won 11 in 13 years and they missed the playoffs the year after he retired. The celtics lost twice in his career, once when he was injured and once against the greatest peak season of all time (67 wilt).

[Fresh Kid]

He sure did show up for this :oldlol:

http://cdn.ientry.com/sites/webpronews/article_pics/jumparoundlebron.gif
yea he showed up for his given ring, who wouldnt:rolleyes:

[Jameerthefear]

Look MJ is pretty clearly in the top 2, but I can't look past Russell. He came onto a non-playoff team, won 11 in 13 years and they missed the playoffs the year after he retired. The celtics lost twice in his career, once when he was injured and once against the greatest peak season of all time (67 wilt).
I can respect that :applause:

[Fresh Kid]

Without Pippen, Jordan has no rings.

Without PJAX, Kobe has no rings.

Without anyone, Melo has no rings

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lebowski.gif
without david sterns, and refs rigging games lebron wouldn't win a ring as well, keep it coming:facepalm

[riseagainst]

i love how all the lebron d1ckriders always bring up the age comparison when in actuality MJ only played like 7 years vs Lebron's 10 by age 28. :oldlol:

so shameless. :oldlol:

[Quickening]

i love how all the lebron d1ckriders always bring up the age comparison when in actuality MJ only played like 7 years vs Lebron's 10 by age 28. :oldlol:

so shameless. :oldlol:

Basketball peak/prime is around 26-31... its hardly fair to give Jordan 3 more peak seasons, because he didn't play in the NBA as a kid.

In the next 3-4 years, the rest of Lebrons prime, he will probably end up with at least 2 championships, fmvp and mvp...

[SamuraiSWISH]

Basketball peak/prime is around 26-31... its hardly fair to give Jordan 3 more peak seasons, because he didn't play in the NBA as a kid.
Ages 25 - 31 is the range for basketball prime. 31 is generally the cut off point, too. Most tend to regress after that season.

MJ missed his 9th season in 1994 (30 - 31) which would have been the last year of his true prime. He missed the majority of 1995 as well, playing just under 1/4th of the games.

We're essentially comparing when LeBron Stans use "age" argument, LeBron's 10 season accumulative stats to Jordan's 8 seasons (really 7 considering he missed the majority of his 2nd season) ... MJ is the winner here, clearly.

When he did his baseball thing for 2 seasons, MJ possibly forfeited couple championships, a probable 4th straight in reality. He also let go of a potential MVP, Finals MVP or two as well.

MJ wins not only in cold hard facts of achievements from 8 seasons v.s. LeBron's 10. But he also gets a boost mythological wise due to the possibilities he had if he didn't retire to play baseball in his prime.

[Unbiased_one]

Ages 25 - 31 is the range for basketball prime. 31 is generally the cut off point, too. Most tend to regress after that season.

MJ missed his 9th season in 1994 (30 - 31) which would have been the last year of his true prime. He missed the majority of 1995 as well, playing just under 1/4th of the games.

We're essentially comparing when LeBron Stans use "age" argument, LeBron's 10 season accumulative stats to Jordan's 8 seasons (really 7 considering he missed the majority of his 2nd season) ... MJ is the winner here, clearly.

When he did his baseball thing for 2 seasons, MJ possibly forfeited couple championships, a probable 4th straight in reality. He also let go of a potential MVP, Finals MVP or two as well.

MJ wins not only in cold hard facts of achievements from 8 seasons v.s. LeBron's 10. But he also gets a boost mythological wise due to the possibilities he had if he didn't retire to play baseball in his prime.

If MJ had continued to play in 94 and 95, he probably would have retired after those seasons. You can't just assign hypotheticals like that. No one gets a boost from things they didn't do. If lebron gets a career ending injury tomorrow, he won't get a boost for what he might have done because he didn't do it.

[grantz]

http://i.imgur.com/tHuH8t5.png

Okay so I did some number crunching. I may have made a mistake or two because I did this hastily.

This is just raw statistics so we can at least have an argument with numbers in front of us.

The statistics is for the first 10 seasons, and the first 8 playoffs which is the most logical thing to rate at the moment.

Something slightly deceiving is Jordan's 3pt % numbers. This is because Jordan shot 100% 3pt % in 1985-86 playoffs (1/1).

If someone wants to fill in the gap of PPG please do so, for some reason I forgot it. I think Jordan pretty much takes that statistic handily though. Sorry for the omission it wasn't an attempt to be biased.

Enjoy.

[Dragonyeuw]

If MJ had continued to play in 94 and 95, he probably would have retired after those seasons.


At 32? Why?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Penalize LeBron for being able to dominate NBA players straight out of high school? :roll:

http://oi40.tinypic.com/99m8lw.jpg



"But he had extra seasons!!!" Alright lets bring your boy Kobe into it who had that same "advantage".



http://oi43.tinypic.com/28ioo49.jpg

:roll:

That's 10 years of Lebron vs 6 years of Jordan

[Legends66NBA7]

How is it penalizing if were counting all of LeBron's years vs all of Jordan's years ?

[Dragonyeuw]

Penalize LeBron for being able to dominate NBA players straight out of high school? :roll:

http://oi40.tinypic.com/99m8lw.jpg



"But he had extra seasons!!!" Alright lets bring your boy Kobe into it who had that same "advantage".



http://oi43.tinypic.com/28ioo49.jpg

:roll:

Lebron is the exception to every rule as he pretty much came into the NBA as a teenager ready to contribute and put up big numbers. Kobe was a bench player his first 2 years....and with that in mind there isn't some huge gap in numbers, especially scoring. What would Lebron's numbers look like playing next to prime Shaq? Likely not nearly as gaudy.

Comparing MVPs is kinda pointless too. Who provides Lebron with legit MVP competition these days? Prime MJ was competing against prime Barkley,Bird, Magic,Hakeem,Malone and prime Kobe competing against prime Garnett,Dirk,Duncan,Iverson,with prime Shaq on his team pretty much taking him out of MVP discussion until Shaq left( imo Kobe was a legit MVP candidate in 2003). Most of those guys are a few tiers above the guys Lebron is competing against in 2013 for MVP honors. Only Durant is anywhere near that level, and he's got a ways to go yet and he's got a teammate in Westbrook taking MVP consideration away from him.

[riseagainst]

How is it penalizing if were counting all of LeBron's years vs all of Jordan's years ?

:rolleyes:

[SamuraiSWISH]

If MJ had continued to play in 94 and 95, he probably would have retired after those seasons.
Why would he retire after the '95 season? He'd only be 32 and still the best player in the game.

He retired in '94 because of his father's death, and a chance to live a dream his father had for him to play baseball.

Assuming the Bulls still lose Grant for the '95 season, we can assume the Bulls don't win the championship that year. That still acts as the fuel to re-invigorate Jordan that losing to the Magic did, and he comes back harder and wins 3 straight from '96 - '98 like he actually ended up doing. Retiring at age 35.

I'm not assigning the hypotheticals as fact to his resume. I'm saying it builds in a mythic like quality of probable "what if" scenarios into his already GOAT resume and career with facts, that Kobe and LeBron can't replicate.

The guy retired at the top of his game, still young enough in his prime to have achieved more.

Sure players get a boost from PROBABLE hypotheticals, not asinine "possibilities"

Barry Sanders retired within one season of his typical rushing numbers for Walter Payton's all-time rushing record. Emmitt Smith didn't surpass Walter's record until like 3 or 4 seasons after Sanders would've already broken it, if he didn't retire so prematurely.

In my mind, that record is Barry's. He just kind of gave up on gunning for it. Yet technically it's hypothetical.


You can't just assign hypotheticals like that. No one gets a boost from things they didn't do. If lebron gets a career ending injury tomorrow, he won't get a boost for what he might have done because he didn't do it.
Cause it's not like the context is entirely different, right?

Point is LeBron has played 10 seasons by age 28. MJ played 8 seasons, 7 in actuality due to the foot injury in his sophomore season. So in essence, MJ accomplished more than LeBron in basically 3 seasons less time.

[Dragonyeuw]

Point is LeBron has played 10 seasons by age 28. MJ played 8 seasons, 7 in actuality due to the foot injury in his sophomore season. So in essence, MJ accomplished more than LeBron in basically 3 seasons less time.

It was actually 7 seasons, 6 full ones and the injury year:

1)84-85
2)85-86 ( missed most of year)
3)86-87
4)87-88
5)88-89
6)89-90
7)90-91

He turned 28 halfway through the 7th season in 1991. People will continue to harp on about the age thing, because if you compare by first 10 seasons( Jordan's 10th is technically the 94-95 comeback season, and he missed most of that), it then becomes 3 rings, 3 MVPs,3 FMVPs.

[Legends66NBA7]

:rolleyes:

:confusedshrug:

[AlphaWolf24]

after 1 year in the League....

Magic = 1 Ring 1 FMVP

MJ = 0 Rings 0 FMVP

LBJ = 0 rings 0 FMVP 0 playoff's

Magic is the GOAT...




OP Logic