Official Definition: Better Scorer Means Being Able To Score In More Ways

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Scoring is an art, a science, in this league.

Some may say "it doesn't matter how it gets done as long as it gets done"

BUT IT DOES.

Being able to score in multiple ways allows you to face numerous defensive schemes, or individual defenders of varying attributes and either exploit a weakness, or adjust accordingly and still get the job done.

Shaq not being able to shoot free throws is an impediment on his scoring. Teams were able to hack him rather than actually allowing him to shoot near the basket because it was very possible Shaq would contribute 0 points on the possession rather than an easy 2.

Dwyane Wade's lack of a consistent 3 point shot for the most of his career was an impediment on his scoring. Ultimately it has also proved to be a detriment to his body, and decline of his overall effectiveness. Imagine Wade's health had he been able to spot up for a jumper a few more times a game rather than driving to the basket and getting pounded.

LeBron's lack of post game (prior to the past 2 seasons) prevented him from getting easy buckets, especially at critical points in a game. For a guy who failed so much in clutch situations for the majority of his career, imagine his success had he been able to use his 6"9 260lb frame to muscle smaller defenders and get a controlled shot opportunity close to the rim. Instead LeBron was left doing his usual, and predictable, "drive as fast as you can into the lane, into multiple defenders and try to get a layup" routine.

If I'm not mistaken, Reggie Miller has scored more points in his career than Allen Iverson. Many idiots on ISH would simplistically believe this statistic along with shooting percentages would indicate Reggie was a better scorer than AI. However, if you watch the game, and live life by some form of logic you'd know it's about overall skillset, not how efficiently you do ONE THING.

[Electric Slide]

No being a better scorer means scoring more points under superior efficiency.

Sorry but Melo sucks at scoring efficiently.

[CanYouDigIt]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/478e455e409ce4b69b6f52da2150dab0/tumblr_mrp6x2jqiE1rmemo1o4_500.jpg

[NewYorkNoPicks]

No being a better scorer means scoring more points under superior efficiency.

Sorry but Melo sucks at scoring efficiently.

Insidehoops Logic:

Guy at the carnival hitting 30 shots in a row on the basketball game = Better scorer than Melo.

Better percentage = better scorer

Carnival Guy = 100% FG

Carnival Guy = GOAT

:facepalm

[atljonesbro]

Lol this a terrible biased definition. I guess Lamarcus Aldridge is a better scorer than Shaq :facepalm

[Young X]

No it doesn't. The better scorer is the player who has the greater abiltiy to put the ball in the basket. The guy you want using most of your teams possessions. The guy who has the best combination of volume, efficiency, consistency and reliability in scoring the ball.

Having more moves than the other guy doesn't mean sh!t if they don't make him more effective in putting the ball through the basket.

Who would you want using 30 of your teams possessions?:

a guy with a million moves who scores 25 pts on 40%?

or

a guy with 5 moves who scores 25 pts on 50%?

The guy that increases the chance of your teams success through scoring is the better scorer.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Lol this a terrible biased definition. I guess Lamarcus Aldridge is a better scorer than Shaq :facepalm

He is...

Shaq had a very limited offensive repertoire...

There is a difference between DOMINANT and BETTER

If a bunch of 6 year olds are playing a friendly game against another team, and the other team happens to have a 10 year old...a guy who towers over them all and can dominate them in strength, size and power he will be the best player on the court regardless of actual basketball skill.

[ballup]

No it doesn't. Being able to score more ways is "scoring arsenal".

[NewYorkNoPicks]

No it doesn't. The better scorer is the player who has the greater abiltiy to put the ball in the basket. The guy you want using most of your teams possessions. The guy who has the best combination of volume, efficiency, consistency and reliability in scoring the ball.

Having more moves than the other guy doesn't mean sh!t if they don't make him more effective in putting the ball through the basket.

Who would you want using 30 of your teams possessions?:

a guy with a million moves who scores 25 pts on 40%?

or

a guy with 5 moves who scores 25 pts on 50%?

The guy that increases the chance of your teams success through scoring is the better scorer.

I want the guy who can score in multiple ways.

Your logic you'd take Reggie Miller over Allen Iverson.

Get Reggie to put the ball on the floor....he cant do it.

Get Reggie to drive to the basket... cant do it well.

Get Reggie to post up.... cant do it.

Let's eliminate screeners... Reggies not as effective.

At the end of a game you don't always get the opportunity to use the SINGULAR WAY you most efficiently score. A jump shot wont always be there. A hook shot for Shaq wont always be there.

You need more weapons to react to different defenses.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

No it doesn't. Being able to score more ways is "scoring arsenal".

If I'm a mechanic and I am effective at working on Ferrari's, Laborghini's, Corvettes, Mercedes, Audis, Bentley's, Cadillac's, etc

and you are a guy who specializes only on rotary engines like those in some Mazda's, but you're the best at rotary engines... I am a better mechanic than you.

[Fresh Kid]

Insidehoops Logic:

Guy at the carnival hitting 30 shots in a row on the basketball game = Better scorer than Melo.

Better percentage = better scorer

Carnival Guy = 100% FG

Carnival Guy = GOAT

:facepalm
thats iz crazy sad tho, how delusional can dem bastards get:coleman:

[atljonesbro]

He is...

Shaq had a very limited offensive repertoire...

There is a difference between DOMINANT and BETTER

If a bunch of 6 year olds are playing a friendly game against another team, and the other team happens to have a 10 year old...a guy who towers over them all and can dominate them in strength, size and power he will be the best player on the court regardless of actual basketball skill.

21 ppg 48%, 22 ppg 50%, ect. vs. 29 ppg 58%, 30 ppg on 57%, ect.

Yeah player one is a MUCH better scorer lmao. It's past your bed time kid go hop in your Melo PJs

[NewYorkNoPicks]

21 ppg 48%, 22 ppg 50%, ect. vs. 29 ppg 58%, 30 ppg on 57%, ect.

Yeah player one is a MUCH better scorer lmao. It's past your bed time kid go hop in your Melo PJs

Youre such a simplistic piece of garbage bro. Your mind just isn't capable of thinking other than what people tell you.

Answer this you little piece of sh1t:

IS REGGIE MILLER A BETTER SCORER THAN ALLEN IVERSON?!

[OldSkoolball#52]

Being a great scorer means leading your generation in missed FGAs. Means shooting contested instead of wide open teammates. Means bad decision brick shots in close games.

Melo is a great scorer !




Also, OP pullin out all the stops to embarrass himself obsessin over Melo

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Being a great scorer means leading your generation in missed FGAs. Means shooting contested instead of wide open teammates. Means bad decision brick shots in close games.

Melo is a great scorer !




Also, OP pullin out all the stops to embarrass himself obsessin over Melo

At the end of a game you don't always get the opportunity to use the SINGULAR WAY you most efficiently score. A jump shot wont always be there. A hook shot for Shaq wont always be there.

You need more weapons to react to different defenses.

[OldSkoolball#52]

OP once literally challenged me to a fist fight because I said Dirk >>>> Melo



OPs got issues. Hopefully his shrink has a better curing % than Melo shooting %

[CeltsGarlic]

Dude whats the difference? It only matters who gets W.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Dude whats the difference? It only matters who gets W.

It mattered to LeBron at the end of games

[NewYorkNoPicks]

OP once literally challenged me to a fist fight because I said Dirk >>>> Melo



OPs got issues. Hopefully his shrink has a better curing % than Melo shooting %

You're just a pu$sy... i'd pick on your weak ass if we had gone to the same school.

[fpliii]

Possessions matter. A lot.

Being able to score effectively in multiple ways is big though. It makes it harder to shut you down in the playoffs, when defenses are the best and most intense.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Possessions matter. A lot.

Being able to score effectively in multiple ways is big though. It makes it harder to shut you down in the playoffs, when defenses are the best and most intense.

Which is why Kobe is the one of the best to ever play this game.

[ballup]

If I'm a mechanic and I am effective at working on Ferrari's, Laborghini's, Corvettes, Mercedes, Audis, Bentley's, Cadillac's, etc

and you are a guy who specializes only on rotary engines like those in some Mazda's, but you're the best at rotary engines... I am a better mechanic than you.
This isn't relevant to what I stated. Being a better scorer is more than just having the best scoring arsenal. It's also about scoring more points than the rest of your peers at a great and consistnt level.

Jeff Green can score in many ways including from the low post, mid range, slashing, and the 3. Does that mean he's a better scorer than most of the league?

[Young X]

I want the guy who can score in multiple ways.

Your logic you'd take Reggie Miller over Allen Iverson.

Get Reggie to put the ball on the floor....he cant do it.

Get Reggie to drive to the basket... cant do it well.

Get Reggie to post up.... cant do it.

Let's eliminate screeners... Reggies not as effective.

At the end of a game you don't always get the opportunity to use the SINGULAR WAY you most efficiently score. A jump shot wont always be there. A hook shot for Shaq wont always be there.

You need more weapons to react to different defenses.Why would you need a post up if there were better scoring options out there? Reggie and AI didn't have the same responsibilty and aren't in the same class as scorers. Reggie was a ~22 ppg scorer and AI was a ~32 ppg scorer. Their roles are completely different. That's why I said reliability and consistency matter along with volume and efficiency.

Bottom line is if two guys score at the same volume (25 pts for example), but one is alot more consistent and uses his teams possessions alot better (more efficient), THAT'S the guy who you want using ~30 of your teams possessions to score and that's the better scorer. Point blank.

[fpliii]

Which is why Kobe is the one of the best to ever play this game.

He is, but he's much more than a scorer. His scoring is a big part of his value as a player, but it's not everything.

[CanYouDigIt]

Oh lawd! NewYorkNoPicks is gonna have another meltdown


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Young X]

The only time versatility should matter is if that versatility allows a player to be more effective than another player over the course of a season. If the more versatile scorer is still clearly less effective than the other player throughout the course of an entire season - it doesn't matter because the less versatile player will help you win more games through scoring than the more versatile player.

If two players are equally or similarly effective that's when you should look at versatility. In other words it shouldn't be a primary requirement it should be secondary. Winning games is all that matters.

A fadeaway over 2 defenders and a layup are both worth 2 points.

[Electric Slide]

Insidehoops Logic:

Guy at the carnival hitting 30 shots in a row on the basketball game = Better scorer than Melo.

Better percentage = better scorer

Carnival Guy = 100% FG

Carnival Guy = GOAT

:facepalm
If two players had similar ppg production, lets say 30 ppg, then the better scorer would be the one withe superior efficiency.

moves are irrelevant if you do not produce with them.

[CanYouDigIt]

http://gifsforum.com/images/image/this%20thread%20delivers/grand/this_thread_delivers_5.jpg

[Djahjaga]

I want the guy who can score in multiple ways.

Your logic you'd take Reggie Miller over Allen Iverson.

Get Reggie to put the ball on the floor....he cant do it.

Get Reggie to drive to the basket... cant do it well.

Get Reggie to post up.... cant do it.

Let's eliminate screeners... Reggies not as effective.

At the end of a game you don't always get the opportunity to use the SINGULAR WAY you most efficiently score. A jump shot wont always be there. A hook shot for Shaq wont always be there.

You need more weapons to react to different defenses.

Since the rest of ISH has united against you, I'll take the time to point out that Iverson:

A. also couldn't post up, and
B. got most of his points by running around screens for jumpers, like Reggie.

Your arguments are completely arbitrary. No one has said Reggie was a better scorer than Iverson. No one would say Karl Malone is a better scorer than Shaq, either, despite his lead in career points.

Edit: As long as we're throwing out arbitrary measures of scoring, I could say that Reggie was a better shooter at all distances, was a better foul shooter (so he was less of a liability at the end of games), was probably more clutch than Iverson, and probably would have scored more if he played in today's 3-point-love-fest of a league, even though he was already way ahead of his time in terms of 3PA.

Note that I'm still not saying he was a better scorer than Iverson; just showing how you can word an argument without much evidence to make anything sound plausible. Which is what you did. And you failed. All of ISH agrees on that.

[zoom17]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/67baf0162e0b4059c928a5c34b972c65/tumblr_mnbmsqVFsj1qbh0eio1_250.gif

[SuperPippen]

Insidehoops Logic:

Guy at the carnival hitting 30 shots in a row on the basketball game = Better scorer than Melo.

Better percentage = better scorer

Carnival Guy = 100% FG

Carnival Guy = GOAT

:facepalm


This...... is one of the worst arguments I've ever seen.

[CeltsGarlic]

Worst debate ever. Dude is nuts or something.. Score with your head or elbows as long as its effective for the team. Thats it.

[Graviton]

Ah last time you had such a meltdown arguing this...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=310594&page=12

http://i43.tinypic.com/148eqmh.gif

[The JKidd Kid]

Obvious agenda is obvious.

[Young X]

Say you're building a team and you have great complimentary players, and great role players but you need a 30 ppg scorer to make your team complete. Ignoring rebounding, defense, etc - Over the course of the entire regular and post season what player would you want using 1/3 of your teams possessions to score?:

A 30 ppg scorer with a whole arsenal of moves and average scoring efficiency/consistency?

Or...

A 30 ppg scorer with a total of 4 moves and excellent scoring efficiency/consistency?

Which guy would increase your teams chances of winning in the regular season and the playoffs? That guy is the better scorer. Point blank.

[Djahjaga]

Say you're building a team and you have great complimentary players, and great role players but you need a 30 ppg scorer to make your team complete. Ignoring rebounding, defense, etc - Over the course of the entire regular and post season what player would you want using 1/3 of your teams possessions to score?:

A 30 ppg scorer with a whole arsenal of moves and average scoring efficiency/consistency?

Or...

A 30 ppg scorer with a total of 4 moves and excellent scoring efficiency/consistency?

Which guy would increase your teams chances of winning in the regular season and the playoffs? That guy is the better scorer. Point blank.

This.

A simpler way to put this is, the guy whose scoring better translates to wins. Usually this is the guy who's more efficient because that allows more possessions to be used by his teammates.

[CeltsGarlic]

Moron. Complete idiot.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

This...... is one of the worst arguments I've ever seen.

Its not an argument its hyperbole and satire showing how stupid and simplistic some of the people on this website are.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Moron. Complete idiot.

Sheep. Complete sheep.

Only mindless idiots like yourself cant see that there are multiple ways to score in this game and if you are proficient at them all then you are a better scorer than someone who has multiple weak areas in the scoring aspect of the game.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

You guys are acting like there is such a huge discrepancy in the shooting percentages.

A guy shooting 43% from the field who can post up, create off the dribble, spot up, shoot 3s, drive the lane, finish with either hand

Is better than the guy shooting 47% but stays within his limited element.

Reggie Miller is one of the greatest shoters in NBA history from all areas of the floor. He shot much more efficiently than Allen Iverson, but can you people honestly say Reggie was a better scorer than AI? You cant.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

This.

A simpler way to put this is, the guy whose scoring better translates to wins. Usually this is the guy who's more efficient because that allows more possessions to be used by his teammates.

No.

What that means is that player is MORE EFFICIENT than the other player.

Similar concept to when i discussed DOMINANCE.

Hakeem is a better scorer than Shaq, but Shaq was more DOMINANT.

[b1imtf]

U mad:roll:

[chips93]

Only mindless idiots like yourself cant see that there are multiple ways to score in this game and if you are proficient at them all then you are a better scorer than someone who has multiple weak areas in the scoring aspect of the game.

you are looking at this very one dimensionally.

there is a middle ground between one guy being good at one type of scoring, or bad at it.

melo is a relatively great shooter, but its not a smart way to score points. melo is amazing at the least effective method of scoring.

id rather have a scorer who is the best, at the best type of scoring.



you are acting like an obnoxious fool with the way you are making your argument.

[Nash]

How is this hard to understand? Better scorer means that you need lesser amount of opportunities to score. It doesn't matter if you can only score in one way as long as you get it done. What is the point of knowing how to score in 10 different ways if none of them is as efficient while another guy can only score in 1 way yet he's unstoppable at it at scores as many points as the guy who has 10 moves and has to take more shots to score the same amount?

[AintNoSunshine]

LOL you dumbazzes is it really that hard to understand?

Best scorer = most difficult to keep from scoring

You can do this by using a wider varieties of moves which make you more unpredictable.

Or if you're so talented that you can score with one move every fukking time and the defense can't do shiit to stop you even they know what you're going to do, you are still a great scorer.

[Lebron23]

You sound like someone put a pineapple inside your butt.


Better Scorer is the player who scores more points in a much higher efficiency.

That's why Both Durant and LeBron are the 2 best scorers in the league. And that's why they are a superior playoffs performer than Carmelo Anthony.

Please stop comparing Iverson to Miller. They are 2 different type of players.

[Hoopz2332]

just look @ this graph and compare similar vol scorers like melo, Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Wade, Dirk, Kyrie etc..and you'll get your answer

http://i.imgur.com/SfpgMmJ.jpg

[CanYouDigIt]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/478e455e409ce4b69b6f52da2150dab0/tumblr_mrp6x2jqiE1rmemo1o4_500.jpg

[ralph_i_el]

If I'm a mechanic and I am effective at working on Ferrari's, Laborghini's, Corvettes, Mercedes, Audis, Bentley's, Cadillac's, etc

and you are a guy who specializes only on rotary engines like those in some Mazda's, but you're the best at rotary engines... I am a better mechanic than you.
BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BASKETBALL. Everybody plays by the same rules and the goal is to score the most amount of points for the amount of shots you take. A dunk is 2, a layup is 2, a hook shot is 2. You take 10 jab steps and then spin into the lane for a highlight bucket? TWO POINTS woooooooo

How good of a scorer you are is a function of the volume
(USG%) and efficiency (ts%, points per weighted shot) with consideration to the team and role you fill.

2 points in the first minute is just as valuable as 2 at the end of the game.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Scoring is an art, a science, in this league.

Some may say "it doesn't matter how it gets done as long as it gets done"

BUT IT DOES.

Being able to score in multiple ways allows you to face numerous defensive schemes, or individual defenders of varying attributes and either exploit a weakness, or adjust accordingly and still get the job done.

Shaq not being able to shoot free throws is an impediment on his scoring. Teams were able to hack him rather than actually allowing him to shoot near the basket because it was very possible Shaq would contribute 0 points on the possession rather than an easy 2.

Dwyane Wade's lack of a consistent 3 point shot for the most of his career was an impediment on his scoring. Ultimately it has also proved to be a detriment to his body, and decline of his overall effectiveness. Imagine Wade's health had he been able to spot up for a jumper a few more times a game rather than driving to the basket and getting pounded.

LeBron's lack of post game (prior to the past 2 seasons) prevented him from getting easy buckets, especially at critical points in a game. For a guy who failed so much in clutch situations for the majority of his career, imagine his success had he been able to use his 6"9 260lb frame to muscle smaller defenders and get a controlled shot opportunity close to the rim. Instead LeBron was left doing his usual, and predictable, "drive as fast as you can into the lane, into multiple defenders and try to get a layup" routine.
And that's why they have no Championships.

[ralph_i_el]

Sheep. Complete sheep.

Only mindless idiots like yourself cant see that there are multiple ways to score in this game and if you are proficient at them all then you are a better scorer than someone who has multiple weak areas in the scoring aspect of the game.

just because you can score in more ways doesn't mean you are going to be more effective at scoring. a basket is a basket is a basket, it doesn't matter how you get it (accounting for 3's).

[CanYouDigIt]

NewYorkNoPicks sure does make some great backfire threads.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/brick-lol.gif

[PJR]

It's 2013, and Knicks fans are still stupid.

[Jameerthefear]

Insidehoops Logic:

Guy at the carnival hitting 30 shots in a row on the basketball game = Better scorer than Melo.

Better percentage = better scorer

Carnival Guy = 100% FG

Carnival Guy = GOAT

:facepalm
http://i.imgur.com/QaP3dLb.gif

[ILLsmak]

Scoring is an art, a science, in this league.

Some may say "it doesn't matter how it gets done as long as it gets done"

BUT IT DOES.

Being able to score in multiple ways allows you to face numerous defensive schemes, or individual defenders of varying attributes and either exploit a weakness, or adjust accordingly and still get the job done.

Shaq not being able to shoot free throws is an impediment on his scoring. Teams were able to hack him rather than actually allowing him to shoot near the basket because it was very possible Shaq would contribute 0 points on the possession rather than an easy 2.

Dwyane Wade's lack of a consistent 3 point shot for the most of his career was an impediment on his scoring. Ultimately it has also proved to be a detriment to his body, and decline of his overall effectiveness. Imagine Wade's health had he been able to spot up for a jumper a few more times a game rather than driving to the basket and getting pounded.

LeBron's lack of post game (prior to the past 2 seasons) prevented him from getting easy buckets, especially at critical points in a game. For a guy who failed so much in clutch situations for the majority of his career, imagine his success had he been able to use his 6"9 260lb frame to muscle smaller defenders and get a controlled shot opportunity close to the rim. Instead LeBron was left doing his usual, and predictable, "drive as fast as you can into the lane, into multiple defenders and try to get a layup" routine.

If I'm not mistaken, Reggie Miller has scored more points in his career than Allen Iverson. Many idiots on ISH would simplistically believe this statistic along with shooting percentages would indicate Reggie was a better scorer than AI. However, if you watch the game, and live life by some form of logic you'd know it's about overall skillset, not how efficiently you do ONE THING.


I disagree with the Shaq part. Sure it sucks, but fouling someone is completely different than getting a stop, even if you have to double team someone to get it. A foul counts against you for the quarter (as a team) and for the game (as a player.) Assuming you have a top-tier starting 5, you have to either take the fouls with some scrub you sub in, or just swallow it and hope for the best. Plus, Shaq got a lot of 3 point plays and dished out plenty of punishment to the ones fouling him.

Bad example.

-Smak

[Electric Slide]

If having the most moves means being the best scorer, it's still not Melo, it would be Kobe. :oldlol:

[KG215]

I like how OP titles the thread "Official Definition" like his opinion is authority and fact. What a delusional asshat.

I've always said the term "best scorer" is a very loose definition. I've always been on the side of efficiency, but there's nothing wrong with being more partial to the guy with a bigger scoring arsenal. But if you're comparing players that score at a similar volume, why wouldn't you say the player who scores those points more efficiently is the better scorer?

And since the OP is a Carmelo stan, and this thread has an obvious agenda...

These are career playoff scoring numbers:

Carmelo Anthony: 25.7 PPG, .417/.320/.826, .513 TS%, .442 eFG%

LeBron James: 28.1 PPG, .472/.322/.749, .567 TS%, .507 eFG%

Kevin Durant: 28.6 PPG, .463/.340/.848, .588 TS%, .513 eFG%


Yes, Carmelo may be the most versatile scorer of the bunch, but who cares? If I can 3 more PPG from LeBron and Durant on much better efficiency, then why should I care if their scoring arsenal is bigger than Carmelo's?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I've seen tons of 'efficient scorers' get exposed in the postseason (less opportunities in transition / team defense is better). Volume scorers and chuckers? Dime a dozen. They can win you games w/ their streak scoring but also kill any chance your team had of winning.

There's gotta be a middle ground.

I'd take Dirk/TMac/Kobe over English/Dantley/King any day. Statistically, the latter is more efficient but Dirk/TMac/Kobe are insanely versatile and efficient enough.

[The JKidd Kid]

If having the most moves means being the best scorer, it's still not Melo, it would be Kobe. :oldlol:

Exactly, this is just another thread where a Knicks fan tries to subtly say that Melo is the best scorer in the league even though he isn't in any way shape or form.

[Lebron23]

41.7 FG%

No wonder Melo only has 1 winning season in the playoffs in his entire NBA Career.

[gts]

Can't believe people are actually arguing having more weapons in your arsenal is a bad thing

this place :lol

[HoopsFanNumero1]

41.7 FG%

No wonder Melo only has 1 winning season in the playoffs in his entire NBA Career.

Wtf? Did anyone else see some poster called HomieWeMajor with the exact same post as this guy? He quickly deleted it after.

[Lebron23]

Wtf? Did anyone else see some poster called HomieWeMajor with the exact same post as this guy? He quickly deleted it after.


What are you talking about??

[bdreason]

It really just comes down to efficiency.


I'll take a player who can score from the low/high post as efficiently as possible over any other scorer. The reason being that scoring from those positions puts the most pressure on the defense, and typically leads to more efficient opportunities for the entire team.

[branslowski]

:lol @ anyone thinking Carmelo is a better scorer than Dwight Howard...Check da fg% stats homie, Dwight>>>Melo as a scorer.


lol jk

[Jameerthefear]

Wtf? Did anyone else see some poster called HomieWeMajor with the exact same post as this guy? He quickly deleted it after.
Really?

[Bandito]

Wtf? Did anyone else see some poster called HomieWeMajor with the exact same post as this guy? He quickly deleted it after.
I did see it too. Too bad I refreshed the page.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Really?

Pretty sure. Some mod can probably confirm it.

[Jameerthefear]

Oh shit another one exposed :roll: :roll:

[Young X]

Can't believe people are actually arguing having more weapons in your arsenal is a bad thing

this place :lolNobody's saying it's a bad thing, but if it doesn't help you score more effectively and consistency than a less versatile scorer than it's USELESS. The problem is people put vesatility and aesthetics before effectiveness which is stupid. You should look at how effective a scorer is before you look at scoring arsenal.

[Djahjaga]

Nobody's saying it's a bad thing, but if it doesn't help you score more effectively and consistency than a less versatile scorer than it's USELESS. The problem is people put vesatility and aesthetics before effectiveness which is stupid. You should look at how effective a scorer is before you look at scoring arsenal.

Well said.

NYNoPicks keeps rehashing the same tired argument about Melo having the best fadeaway or the best step-back jumper, as if that's all you need to be a great scorer.

[Jameerthefear]

What are you talking about??
Yeah you got caught buddy.

[HomieWeMajor]

People have double vision

[Nuff Said]

If you're missing more than you're making, how effective is it? It's a simple question really. Don't overthink it.

[Hoopz2332]

This was a Melo hype thread but melo isn't that great of a scorer nomatter how diverse his arsenal is


LeBron James: 8 seasons over 2000 points , 9 50 point games in 10 seasons

Kobe Bryant: 8 seasons over 2000 points , 24 50 point games in 17 seasons

Kevin Durant: 3 seasons over 2000 points, 2 50 point games in 6 seasons

Carmelo: 1 season over 2000 points, 3 50 points games in 10 seasons


1 season over 2000 points for melo?:biggums:

[fpliii]

I did see it too. Too bad I refreshed the page.

I did as well. I don't care either way though, really. To each his own.

[secund2nun]

Melo is one of the most overrated players in the game today. He is not a superstar or even star.

His scoring is mediocre. His passing is terrible and he is a black hole. He plays no D. The only thing he is good at his rebounding.

[pauk]

You are confusing scoring arsenal with scoring.

Reggie Millers scoring arsenal is better than Shaqs.
Shaqs scoring is better than Reggies.

Being able to score more efficiently & productively makes you a better scorer.... being able to score in more ways doesnt make you a better scorer, unless the end product is a more efficient/productive outcome than the other guy compared to....

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Nobody's saying it's a bad thing, but if it doesn't help you score more effectively and consistency than a less versatile scorer than it's USELESS. The problem is people put vesatility and aesthetics before effectiveness which is stupid. You should look at how effective a scorer is before you look at scoring arsenal.

And WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THAT SINGULAR METHOD OF SCORING THE PLAYER EXCELS AT IS SHUT DOWN?!

A LIMITED SCORER IS NOT A GREAT SCORER NO MATTER HOW EFFICIENT THEY ARE AT THAT ONE ASPECT.

Case in point... Whos a better scorer Hakeem or Shaq? Whos a better scorer Allen Iverson or Reggie Miller?

If youre not saying Hakeem and Iverson youre obviously either very young or ridiculously stubborn in trying to stick to your contrary point of view here

[Fresh Kid]

Melo is one of the most overrated players in the game today. He is not a superstar or even star.

His scoring is mediocre. His passing is terrible and he is a black hole. He plays no D. The only thing he is good at his rebounding.
see its dumb people like this that needs to stay off tha damn keyboard:facepalm haters will hate.

[Akhenaten]

you're quick to point out deficiencies in other players' offensive skillset but overlook a glaring one for Melo


which is the fact that this guy is mediocre at finishing around the basket and HORRIBLE from midrange/short meaning 8-15 ft (the real mid range, 18 ft jumpers are not MEDIUM range shots) for his career he shoots like 37% from 3-15 ft.

long twos and threes are all he's good at
not to mention compared to the truly elite scorers like Wade, Kobe, Lebron, Durant his ball handling is suspect.

he also doesnt have much of a low post back-to-the-basket game either

Carmelo's scoring versatility AND overall scoring prowess is SUPREMELY overrated

[secund2nun]

see its dumb people like this that needs to stay off tha damn keyboard:facepalm haters will hate.

Everything I stated was true. He is a mediocre scorer, a bad passer/black hole, and a poor defender. Wow so he is a decent rebounder for a SF.....how does that make him a star?

[Fresh Kid]

whats ur problem aj1987? got nuttin else better to say niguh? :lol

[aj1987]

whats ur problem aj1987? got nuttin else better to say niguh? :lol
http://i.imgur.com/6qZ1oMV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Vzo24k5.jpg

[Fresh Kid]

Everything I stated was true. He is a mediocre scorer, a bad passer/black hole, and a poor defender. Wow so he is a decent rebounder for a SF.....how does that make him a star?
multiple all star and scoring champ is not a star and a mediocre scorer?:wtf: whats dis?:biggums: tha damn twilight zone?:oldlol:

[Young X]

And WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THAT SINGULAR METHOD OF SCORING THE PLAYER EXCELS AT IS SHUT DOWN?!

A LIMITED SCORER IS NOT A GREAT SCORER NO MATTER HOW EFFICIENT THEY ARE AT THAT ONE ASPECT.

Case in point... Whos a better scorer Hakeem or Shaq? Whos a better scorer Allen Iverson or Reggie Miller?

If youre not saying Hakeem and Iverson youre obviously either very young or ridiculously stubborn in trying to stick to your contrary point of view hereCalm down dude. :oldlol:

You don't get it dude, if that singular method of scoring gets shut down that easily than that player is NOT an effective scorer. That's not the type of scorer I'm talking about. That's why I mentioned consistency.

Your Shaq and Hakeem example isn't good because they both scored with simililar effectiveness. If two players score with similar effectiveness THATS when you look at versatility.

What the F*CK is the point of extra moves if the other guy scores with much more consistency than you? The point of the game is to score points and stop the other team from scoring. Why in gods name would you want the less effective scorer if you're trying to win ball games?

Stop putting things like versatility and style before efficiency and effectiveness. That's LOSING BASKETBALL.

[CanYouDigIt]

Jesus christ, Carmelo is a versatile scorer, just not efficient as some other elite players currently in the league; Lebron and Durant.

/thread

[Jameerthefear]

Jesus christ, Carmelo is a versatile scorer, just not efficient as some other elite players currently in the league; Lebron and Durant.

/thread
respond to my PM

[KG215]

And WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THAT SINGULAR METHOD OF SCORING THE PLAYER EXCELS AT IS SHUT DOWN?!

A LIMITED SCORER IS NOT A GREAT SCORER NO MATTER HOW EFFICIENT THEY ARE AT THAT ONE ASPECT.

Case in point... Whos a better scorer Hakeem or Shaq? Whos a better scorer Allen Iverson or Reggie Miller?

If youre not saying Hakeem and Iverson youre obviously either very young or ridiculously stubborn in trying to stick to your contrary point of view here
Why does it matter if we're comparing players who score at a similar volume? Who the f**k cares if player A only has one or two moves and player B has a seemingly infinite number of moves? If player A has shown over his career that he can score at a similar or higher volume on better efficiency than player B, then why does total scoring arsenal matter?

I'm guessing you'd say Carmelo is a better scorer than LeBron, right? Then how do you explain this (PLAYOFF SCORING):


LeBron: 28.1 PPG, .472/.322/.749, .567 TS%, .507 eFG%

Carmelo: 25.7 PPG, .417/.320/.826, .513 TS%, .442 eFG%


Apparently LeBron having a smaller arsenal of moves, has still provided his team with 2.4 more PPG on much better efficiency throughout his playoff career compared to Carmelo. I don't care if LeBron scores all 28.1 PPG on .57% TS with the exact same move every single time...I'd still take him over Carmelo who scores his 25.7 PPG on 51% TS with an array of moves.

[CanYouDigIt]

respond to my PM
I got your PM, I won't respond encase you're gonna do something shady.

[Fresh Kid]

Jesus christ, Carmelo is a versatile scorer, just not efficient as some other elite players currently in the league; Lebron and Durant.

/thread
without westbrook how far can durant will go? and without wade, bosh, allen and stacked role players how far can lebron go??:confusedshrug:

[Jameerthefear]

I got your PM, I won't respond encase you're gonna do something shady.
Who's your alt buddy? I wasn't going to get your ip.

[CanYouDigIt]

without westbrook how far can durant will go? and without wade, bosh, allen and stacked role players how far can lebron go??:confusedshrug:
Durant made it the 2nd Round with a bunch of scrubs on his team.

Lebron made it to the NBA Finals with a bunch of scrubs on his team

Melo only made it to the 2nd Round with a former DPOY and current 6th Man of the Year.

[CanYouDigIt]

Who's your alt buddy? I wasn't going to get your ip.
I have no alt, ask the mods or Jeff. I trust them more than you.

[Jameerthefear]

I have no alt, ask the mods or Jeff. I trust them more than you.
a'ight. just keep that PM between you and me then.

[CanYouDigIt]

a'ight. just keep that PM between you and me then.
sure.......:rolleyes:

[Fresh Kid]

Durant made it the 2nd Round with a bunch of scrubs on his team.

Lebron made it to the NBA Finals with a bunch of scrubs on his team

Melo only made it to the 2nd Round with a former DPOY and current 6th Man of the Year.
he barely made it to tha 2nd round with lin being horrible, and lebron made it to tha finals cuz tha pistons werent focused and were getting old.

[KG215]

he barely made it to tha 2nd round with lin being horrible, and lebron made it to tha finals cuz tha pistons werent focused and were getting old.
:oldlol:

Sometimes, with the things you say/post when you're trying to be serious and knowledgeable, I can't tell if you're actually being serious. Lin was Houston's 4th best player to begin with, so him being "horrible"....I mean what kind of impact does that really have? Especially since Beverley filled in and played very well in his place.

[tpols]

Why do people call melo a versatile scorer? 90% of his game is jumpers out of the triple threat. Hell spot up occasionally, post here and there, but hes basically all jumpers in iso situations.

His 'scoring arsenal' is very one dimensional.


Jordan/Kobe/Wade(when he had a jumper) could kill you from triple threat, in and out, post ups, off picks, in transition, and finish strong or with finesse on top of having good to great midrange and longrange attacks.


And scoring arsenal does matter because in the playoffs teams can more easily take away your strengths and hone in on your weaknesses. Look at how Lebrons numbers went from 30+ on 65TS in the regular season to whatever they were in the spurs series, his volume and efficiency dropped off when teams exposed a flaw in his scoring ability. Celtics did it to him years ago too.. if theres a glaring weakness it can be exploited.

[tpols]

Stop putting things like versatility and style before efficiency and effectiveness. That's LOSING BASKETBALL.
Efficiency can be masked though.. if a guy constantly passes up difficult shots and defers to teammates to keep his percentages up. Bron and Wade I know have contest to see who can keep their FG the highest.

Its good to a point, but when it makes you a less aggressive and assertive player because youre keeping too tight of tabs on your numbers it isnt good. if youre playing naturally and not forcing things and keeping high percentages thats the best.

[Lebron23]

Why do people call melo a versatile scorer? 90% of his game is jumpers out of the triple threat. Hell spot up occasionally, post here and there, but hes basically all jumpers in iso situations.

His 'scoring arsenal' is very one dimensional.


Jordan/Kobe/Wade(when he had a jumper) could kill you from triple threat, in and out, post ups, off picks, in transition, and finish strong or with finesse on top of having good to great midrange and longrange attacks.


And scoring arsenal does matter because in the playoffs teams can more easily take away your strengths and hone in on your weaknesses. Look at how Lebrons numbers went from 30+ on 65TS in the regular season to whatever they were in the spurs series, his volume and efficiency dropped off when teams exposed a flaw in his scoring ability. Celtics did it to him years ago too.. if theres a glaring weakness it can be exploited.

That's why Lebron shot a higher percentages than Kobe in the playoffs and finals.

[Hoopz2332]

Lebrons numbers went from 30+ on 65TS in the regular season to whatever they were in the spurs series, his volume and efficiency dropped off when teams exposed a flaw in his scoring ability. Celtics did it to him years ago too.. if theres a glaring weakness it can be exploited.

Lebrons "off" shooting/FG% vs the Spurs in the 2013 Finals are higher than all of Kobe's finals outide of the Nets one:biggums:



2000 NBA Finals

Shaq- 38 PPG, 17 RPG, 2.5 APG, 2.7 BPG, 61% FG 96/157
Kobe-16 PPG, 5 RPG, 4 APG, 1.4 BPG, 36% FG%, 33/90

2001 NBA Finals

Shaq- 33 PPG, 16 RPG, 5 APG, 3.5 BPG, 63/110 57% FG
Kobe- 24 PPG, 8 RPG, 6 APG, 1.4 BPG, 44/106 41% FG

2002 NBA Finals

Shaq- 37 PPG, 12.25 RPG, 4 APG, 2.75 BPG, 50/84 60% FG
Kobe-26 PPG, 5.75 RPG, 5 APG, .75 BPG, 36/70 51% FG




2004 NBA finals

Kobe=22 PPG, 3 RPG, 4 APG, .6 BPG, 43/113 38% FG

2008 NBA finals

Kobe= 25 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 5 APG, .16 BPG, 53/131 40% FG

2009 NBA finals

Kobe= 32 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 7.4 AGP, 58/135, 42% FG

2010 NBA Finals

28.5 PPG 40% FG (66-163 shooting)


so much for kobes more diverse "scoring arsenal"

[madmax]

"Diverse scoring arsenal"?:confusedshrug:
Is this another fancy word of saying that I like the way that dude plays and I hate the way the more efficient players scores? Seems like it

[DMAVS41]

"Diverse scoring arsenal"?:confusedshrug:
Is this another fancy word of saying that I like the way that dude plays and I hate the way the more efficient players scores? Seems like it

This. What good is the "diverse scoring arsenal" when it just ends with a player using more possessions to score his points.

That diverse scoring arsenal for Kobe has led to 26 ppg on sub 45% shooting 54% TS in the playoffs for his career. ROFL...hilarious

But it's Lebron that has the flaws...

[Nash]

I love how when anytime someone tries to prop up Kobe using stats it always ends up backfiring. :lol

[tpols]

That's why Lebron shot a higher percentages than Kobe in the playoffs and finals.
I never said Kobe didnt have his flaws.. not in scoring arsenal, moreso decision making.

[raid09]

Lebrons "off" shooting/FG% vs the Spurs in the 2013 Finals are higher than all of Kobe's finals outide of the Nets one:biggums:



2000 NBA Finals

Shaq- 38 PPG, 17 RPG, 2.5 APG, 2.7 BPG, 61% FG 96/157
Kobe-16 PPG, 5 RPG, 4 APG, 1.4 BPG, 36% FG%, 33/90

2001 NBA Finals

Shaq- 33 PPG, 16 RPG, 5 APG, 3.5 BPG, 63/110 57% FG
Kobe- 24 PPG, 8 RPG, 6 APG, 1.4 BPG, 44/106 41% FG

2002 NBA Finals

Shaq- 37 PPG, 12.25 RPG, 4 APG, 2.75 BPG, 50/84 60% FG
Kobe-26 PPG, 5.75 RPG, 5 APG, .75 BPG, 36/70 51% FG




2004 NBA finals

Kobe=22 PPG, 3 RPG, 4 APG, .6 BPG, 43/113 38% FG

2008 NBA finals

Kobe= 25 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 5 APG, .16 BPG, 53/131 40% FG

2009 NBA finals

Kobe= 32 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 7.4 AGP, 58/135, 42% FG

2010 NBA Finals

28.5 PPG 40% FG (66-163 shooting)


so much for kobes more diverse "scoring arsenal"

LeBron wasn't "off" because his FG% was exceptionally low, he was off because the Spurs were giving him wide open jumpers and, when he did take them, he missed them. This happened right up until the end of game 6.

Kobe was not given the same shots... Yes, because his "scoring arsenal" is more diverse.

[MasterDurant24]

Being the best scorer means you are the best at getting buckets, whether it's one way or many. I mean I don't see any other way around it.

[Hoopz2332]

LeBron wasn't "off" because his FG% was exceptionally low, he was off because the Spurs were giving him wide open jumpers and, when he did take them, he missed them. This happened right up until the end of game 6.

Actually lebron was "off" mainly in game 5. That game was terrible. Lebron hit a ton of jumpers in both game 4 and 7. I say he was "off" because he took and made more jumpers and tougher/contested ones @ that vs the Pacers in his previous series. Infact, lebron hit those same jumpers all year at an elite rate. He missed them vs the Spurs because he didn't want to baited into those shots which threw him out of wack.


Kobe was not given the same shots... Yes, because his "scoring arsenal" is more diverse.

KObe's scoring arsenal didn't make him more eff considering his FInals FG% are pretty awful:oldlol:

[TimmyDuncan]

You can have only a few moves and still be a great scorer especially for the centers.

For me the perfect stat to mesure a scorer would be a mix of TS%, FGA (the more volume you score the better your stat is) and % of time you draw a double team when you score.

[bizil]

I think the top scorers in the L right now are (No order):

Durant
Kobe
Lebron
Melo

These four are the most unstoppable guys in the L as of now. But what separates them from each other. I believe its things like size, being bloodthirsty, being efficient, and scoring skillset. U weigh all of those factors together and u come up with a decision. It's no different than comparing MJ, Bird, Nique, and King to each other a few years back. Or comparing Barry, Dr.J, Gervin, and Thompson in the 70's.

So right now in the L, I lean to Melo right now. His scoring skillset is one of the greatest of all time flat out. He's so damn physical, has a great midrange game, great postgame, very good three ball game, and great slashing. Kobe is like that too, but's he not as big as Melo. If all else fails, Melo can just play bully ball most nights and overpower his opponents. And Melo has speed and handles to go past guys just as big or bigger than him. Bron is efficient as hell, but his mentality is pass first and his scoring skillset isn't quite as polished. Durant is the pure shooter of the bunch and is a great slasher. His post game just isn't as devastating as Kobe or Melo yet.

I don't think better scorer means most complete skillset all the time. Hakeem had a better scoring skillset than Shaq, but I think Shaq was the BETTER SCORER! These guys are often times on practically the same level and you could go either way frankly. But perimeter player wise, most of the great scorers usually aren't ONE TRICK PONIES! They are usually GREAT at a minimum of two of the four-five main facets of scoring (postup, slashing, midrange, transition-finishing at the rim, threeball).

[iamgine]

Scoring is an art, a science, in this league.

Some may say "it doesn't matter how it gets done as long as it gets done"

BUT IT DOES.

Being able to score in multiple ways allows you to face numerous defensive schemes, or individual defenders of varying attributes and either exploit a weakness, or adjust accordingly and still get the job done.

Shaq not being able to shoot free throws is an impediment on his scoring. Teams were able to hack him rather than actually allowing him to shoot near the basket because it was very possible Shaq would contribute 0 points on the possession rather than an easy 2.

Dwyane Wade's lack of a consistent 3 point shot for the most of his career was an impediment on his scoring. Ultimately it has also proved to be a detriment to his body, and decline of his overall effectiveness. Imagine Wade's health had he been able to spot up for a jumper a few more times a game rather than driving to the basket and getting pounded.

LeBron's lack of post game (prior to the past 2 seasons) prevented him from getting easy buckets, especially at critical points in a game. For a guy who failed so much in clutch situations for the majority of his career, imagine his success had he been able to use his 6"9 260lb frame to muscle smaller defenders and get a controlled shot opportunity close to the rim. Instead LeBron was left doing his usual, and predictable, "drive as fast as you can into the lane, into multiple defenders and try to get a layup" routine.

If I'm not mistaken, Reggie Miller has scored more points in his career than Allen Iverson. Many idiots on ISH would simplistically believe this statistic along with shooting percentages would indicate Reggie was a better scorer than AI. However, if you watch the game, and live life by some form of logic you'd know it's about overall skillset, not how efficiently you do ONE THING.
By that logic then Yao Ming and Kevin Love are better scorers than Shaq.

It's just wrong.

[gts]

By that logic then Yao Ming and Kevin Love are better scorers than Shaq.

It's just wrong.

yep..

Thing is you want guys like Iverson with the ball in their hands because they can break down the defense in so many ways. a few bad possessions here and there are well worth the price because in the end the defense spends most it's time on it's heels. The floor is opened up and the game becomes easier for everyone on the team.

A guy who can score efficiently but only has a small cache of options is going to become stoppable by a decent defender. Much easier to get a guy like that to pass up shots, take the ball out of his and hand and make the floor smaller.

[KG215]

So right now in the L, I lean to Melo right now. His scoring skillset is one of the greatest of all time flat out. He's so damn physical, has a great midrange game, great postgame, very good three ball game, and great slashing. Kobe is like that too, but's he not as big as Melo. If all else fails, Melo can just play bully ball most nights and overpower his opponents. And Melo has speed and handles to go past guys just as big or bigger than him. Bron is efficient as hell, but his mentality is pass first and his scoring skillset isn't quite as polished. Durant is the pure shooter of the bunch and is a great slasher. His post game just isn't as devastating as Kobe or Melo yet.

But Durant and LeBron have their own physical attributes that make them match-up nightmares, and score at a similar volume on much better efficiency, so it basically comes back to scoring arsenal. And, why does that matter when you're getting similar volume on better efficiency from the guys with fewer tricks in their bag?

[tgan3]

No it doesn't. The better scorer is the player who has the greater abiltiy to put the ball in the basket. The guy you want using most of your teams possessions. The guy who has the best combination of volume, efficiency, consistency and reliability in scoring the ball.

Having more moves than the other guy doesn't mean sh!t if they don't make him more effective in putting the ball through the basket.

Who would you want using 30 of your teams possessions?:

a guy with a million moves who scores 25 pts on 40%?

or

a guy with 5 moves who scores 25 pts on 50%?

The guy that increases the chance of your teams success through scoring is the better scorer.

So wrong!

Deandre Jordan is the leading FG% leader. But he's no way a scorer...Also, there is no way someone has only 5 moves and can score 25 pts on 50% fg. Practically, its not possible.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

Best scorers in L right now

LBJ
Healthy Wade
Melo
Durant

[bizil]

But Durant and LeBron have their own physical attributes that make them match-up nightmares, and score at a similar volume on much better efficiency, so it basically comes back to scoring arsenal. And, why does that matter when you're getting similar volume on better efficiency from the guys with fewer tricks in their bag?

I'm not saying its the be all end all. And I feel Durant and Bron are better overall players. But when u group Kobe, Melo, Durant, and Bron together u could go anyway and I wouldn't argue. I just dig Melo's total scoring skillset and physicality to give him the slight edge. And if we are talking PEAK KOBE, I think he's the most dominant scorer since MJ. It's not all about scoring skillset, I never said that. But u can't knock me TOO HARD if I feel it gives a slight edge in certain cases.

[KG215]

I'm not saying its the be all end all. And I feel Durant and Bron are better overall players. But when u group Kobe, Melo, Durant, and Bron together u could go anyway and I wouldn't argue. I just dig Melo's total scoring skillset and physicality to give him the slight edge. And if we are talking PEAK KOBE, I think he's the most dominant scorer since MJ. It's not all about scoring skillset, I never said that. But u can't knock me TOO HARD if I feel it gives a slight edge in certain cases.
And I'm not trying to, so sorry if that was the vibe of my post. I've said (repeatedly) in other threads recently that it's personal preference when it comes to defining "best scorer". I have no problem with someone preferring players who have a bigger scoring arsenal as there's legitimacy to that argument.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

ISH: Where overanalyzing to the point of not knowing what you're analyzing happens

[Legends66NBA7]

The better scorer means who can consistently score, arsenal of moves or not many moves. Michael Jordan is considered the best scorer of all-time for a reason and that's because he elevated his scoring play from the regular season (10 scoring titles helps too) to the playoffs (every playoff run over 29+ppg; lowest playoff scoring ppg 27+ppg, never went under that mark).

It's funny how OP points out that Shaq's impediment is free throw shooting and Wade's impediment is 3 point shooting and then bashes Dirk for being a one-dimensional scorer (not true at all) in another thread, when Dirk excels at both those skills at a high volume of shots too.