Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

[hateraid]

In my industry we call them granolas. Those type of people who are always pushing all natural, gluten free, non-GMO.....
I find that most of them are ignorant to the facts. Usually know very little yet it gives them a sense of entitlement. They are constantly looking down at others.

What category do you guys fit in? How do you view these followers?

[DeuceWallaces]

What are the facts?

[Nick Young]

These morons wear shirts, clothing and shoes manufactured in sweatshops. Hypocrites of the highest order. Also most of them do it not because they care about changing the world, but only because its fashionable and they want to fit in with the other granolas. Passion for changing the world is a front that most of them hide behind. Of course I am hopeful that some actually do care about changing the world, but I am being a realist when I say that they don't.

It's no different from goths, preps and emos.

[hateraid]

What are the facts?

There are facts that support both sides of the fence. It all depends on what you subscribe to. Naturally you'll research the facts that support your POV. I find that the granolas tend to exaggerate their facts, or at least come from a source that over exaggerates.

[Nick Young]

There is a book called Brandwashed you all should read, about marketting. There was one study done that all people, yes including those who identify themselves as environmentally conscious, are less likely to pick out more expensive organic or "free range" items if no one is around to see them put it in to their shopping basket.

People are more likely to choose the expensive organic items if people are watching them and the area is crowded.

Being organic and healthy has almost become a status symbol of wealth. You have to be able to afford to pay the extra to "save the world".

It really is brilliant marketing. So many morons are falling for these scams every day.

[LJJ]

The whole eat natural thing is a sham.

But are you not in the supplement industry? Which is an even bigger sham?

[Is He Ill]

Not really, since it doesn't affect me at all. They have their preferences and I have mine. That said, I think a lot of them are being taken advantage of.

[hateraid]

The whole eat natural thing is a sham.

But are you not in the supplement industry? Which is an even bigger sham?

I wouldn't say the supplement indistry is a sham. It's only a sham to the people who look to it for 100% of results.

The most purchased product in our industry is protein powder. Whey protein is no different than any form of meat/vegetable protein when it broken down into it's components. Therefor it's food. Is food a sham?

I think the people who are uneducated in supplements usually resort to calling it a sham

[DukeDelonte13]

They don't really bug me but i do agree for the majority of those people its clearly more of a image they are trying to achieve rather than actually ensuring they aren't consuming those nasty "toxins". F*ck, any local butcher will have meat cheaper than chain grocers and most likely locally sourced. Do I ever see those "all-natural" folk at the butcher shop? Nope, but i do seem them at whole foods paying out the ass for trendy food products with meaningless labels.

slightly off topic side note: My garden harvest this year was epic. I think i can now call myself an amateur organic farmer.



new agers irritate me more than the all-natural crowd though.

[Jailblazers7]

Not really because I have gotten some really good food recommendations from them, especially gluten free stuff. I have a digestive condition that has forced me to be more aware of how certain foods interact with my body and a lot of the recommendations from "all-natural" food people have done well for me.

As far as it being an environmentally conscious lifestyle...I don't really buy into it. I usually just try to buy locally grown produce because it travels a shorter distance. The transportation pollution is the big killer.

[Zan Tabak]

My wife is obsessed with buying our baby nothing but organic, sh!t is putting me in the poorhouse.

[LJJ]

I think the people who are uneducated in supplements usually resort to calling it a sham

Please. Such a cop out.

The supplement crowd are just as much "food extremist snobs" as those all natural hippies. Which is exactly the reason you loathe them so much, you are just a different branch of food nut.

[DeuceWallaces]

There are facts that support both sides of the fence. It all depends on what you subscribe to. Naturally you'll research the facts that support your POV. I find that the granolas tend to exaggerate their facts, or at least come from a source that over exaggerates.

I would imagine that 99% of supplement "facts" come from studies commissioned by the industry. Then again, I'm not really up on peer reviewed nutrition and biochem studies.

[ALBballer]

Well I guess I'm one of those types. If I can help it, I would rather buy food with less preservatives, less processed and organic ingredients. I don't push my belief onto others and let them eat whatever they desire.

[Budadiiii]

I wouldn't say the supplement indistry is a sham. It's only a sham to the people who look to it for 100% of results.

The most purchased product in our industry is protein powder. Whey protein is no different than any form of meat/vegetable protein when it broken down into it's components. Therefor it's food. Is food a sham?

I think the people who are uneducated in supplements usually resort to calling it a sham
Commercial Whey Protein is a sham. You're pretty uneducated yourself.

[ALBballer]

BTW since you're the supplement expert, what is your thoughts about Pea Protein:

http://www.nowfoods.com/Pea-Protein-2-lbs.htm

I usually just mix it in my smoothies after a work out.

[B-Low]

I wouldn't say the supplement indistry is a sham. It's only a sham to the people who look to it for 100% of results.

The most purchased product in our industry is protein powder. Whey protein is no different than any form of meat/vegetable protein when it broken down into it's components. Therefor it's food. Is food a sham?

I think the people who are uneducated in supplements usually resort to calling it a sham

This is what I always try to explain to people. I was drinking a protein shake at work a while back and a girl comes in and goes "you know those things don't even work. My brother drank them for 3 months and it didn't do anything". The shit works if you know what it's supposed to do. Its like if someone tried to use a flashlight to light a BBQ grill and said "this thing doesn't work".

And as far as the natural stuff goes, I don't think there's a more overplayed word in the food industry than "organic". You wanna talk about scams, paying twice as much for an organic version of a food is a full-on scam

[Budadiiii]

The whole eat natural thing is a sham.

But are you not in the supplement industry? Which is an even bigger sham?
How is eating natural a sham? Please elaborate. Eating organic whole foods = sham?

[B-Low]

My wife is obsessed with buying our baby nothing but organic, sh!t is putting me in the poorhouse.

So I guess your baby will grow up accepting (wait for it)





















Only the finest?

[Budadiiii]

This is what I always try to explain to people. I was drinking a protein shake at work a while back and a girl comes in and goes "you know those things don't even work. My brother drank them for 3 months and it didn't do anything". The shit works if you know what it's supposed to do. Its like if someone tried to use a flashlight to light a BBQ grill and said "this thing doesn't work".

And as far as the natural stuff goes, I don't think there's a more overplayed word in the food industry than "organic". You wanna talk about scams, paying twice as much for an organic version of a food is a full-on scam
You really think drinking pasteurized dairy does you any good? Of course you do. Completely oblivious to how harmful it really is. You're just talking out of your ass when it comes to this sort of stuff, you really have no idea.

[B-Low]

BTW since you're the supplement expert, what is your thoughts about Pea Protein:

http://www.nowfoods.com/Pea-Protein-2-lbs.htm

I usually just mix it in my smoothies after a work out.

I'm actually curious about pea protein too. I was talking get to someone and they were saying they started using that instead of soy (vegetarian) and they were raving about all the benefits.

[ALBballer]

I'm actually curious about pea protein too. I was talking get to someone and they were saying they started using that instead of soy (vegetarian) and they were raving about all the benefits.

Well over 90% of soy in the US is genetically modified. There is some controversy with soy causing increasing estrogen levels as well.

Pea protein is nasty tho. Took me awhile to get used to it lol.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Paleo people don't really bug me.


But people who 100% consume organic whole wheat pasta and criticize my white rice consumption piss me off a lot lol.

[hateraid]

Commercial Whey Protein is a sham. You're pretty uneducated yourself.
What do you do for a living?

[rufuspaul]

Being organic and healthy has almost become a status symbol of wealth. You have to be able to afford to pay the extra to "save the world".



This is true. My thing with food is threefold:

I want it to taste good.
I don't want it to have harmful ingredients.
I'd like any animals I eat to be humanely raised.

The best way to do that is to try and stay local, if possible. Go to your farmer's market and meet the people who grow the stuff and raise the livestock. I try and do this whenever possible.

The thing is it's not always convenient and it certainly isn't cheap. So when I'm in the supermarket I go for the produce that looks and smells the freshest. Sometimes it's organic, sometimes not. I try to avoid processed crap and I'm very selective when it comes to meat and fish. That being said, it's still hard to know if the origin of the food (free range, line caught, etc.) on the label is accurate.

[gigantes]

In my industry we call them granolas. Those type of people who are always pushing all natural, gluten free, non-GMO.....
I find that most of them are ignorant to the facts. Usually know very little yet it gives them a sense of entitlement. They are constantly looking down at others.

What category do you guys fit in? How do you view these followers?
i don't really have a problem with these people. at least they're on the right track... trying to do the right thing, even if it's sort of a fad / identity thing for them. but as they grow older, they'll probably lose much of the attitude about this stuff and get a better handle on the nutritional science.


at the same time, if you're eating like most people in western civilisation, you're pretty much slowly destroying your health. so it's probably a pretty good idea to whang-dang-doodle them facts. :D

[Zan Tabak]

So I guess your baby will grow up accepting (wait for it)


Only the finest?

:oldlol: Like father like..........daughter I guess :confusedshrug:

[gts]

Its like if someone tried to use a flashlight to light a BBQ grill and said "this thing doesn't work".



Les Stroud could make it work


As to the OP not an organic foods person or household, we eat healthy but the only things we buy from the natural foods joints are bulk items sometimes, things like steel cut oatmeal because it's actually cheaper than buying the stuff that comes in the can. Whole foods carries some decent coffee you can catch on sale at times. All in all we'll buy things for the house there but not because it's organic, we buy it because it's
A. Cheaper or
B. the only place you can get it.

[kNicKz]

I know a dude who refuses to eat bread. He's not even an organic eater like that but he goes off on how humans weren't meant to consume bread :roll:

[Balla_Status]

I know a dude who refuses to eat bread. He's not even an organic eater like that but he goes off on how humans weren't meant to consume bread :roll:

I think it depends on the bread. I eat the shit that people eat in stores but I'm sure it's full of shit that you shouldn't be consuming.

Same with pasteurized dairy. I use some for my shake every morning and that's it. Makes me a bit plhegmy too so I don't drink nearly as much as I used to.

I get the farmers market/butcher shit only lifestyle and the paleo lifestyle. I had a paleo dude tell me that grains are the absolute worst since all disease come from gut inflammation which grains cause.

Lot of hot chicks at farmers markets too.

Paleo eating aint that bad though. You can still eat steak and lots of meat. Basically anything but grains.

[HardwoodLegend]

My grandmother was black, consumed whole milk everyday (most blacks are lactose intolerant, but her gut health was G'ed up), and lived to be 92. She could have easily lived longer, but she succumbed early due to some medical malpractices.

[boozehound]

I know a dude who refuses to eat bread. He's not even an organic eater like that but he goes off on how humans weren't meant to consume bread :roll:
hes actually fairly right. If you look at the advent of agriculture (i.e. grains) against the backdrop of human evolution, our GI isnt really designed for it. Its not as big a deal as all the freakout people are getting into over it (everyone is a celiac now), but its not complete bullshit.

[boozehound]

My grandmother was black, consumed whole milk everyday (most blacks are lactose intolerant, but her gut health was G'ed up), and lived to be 92. She could have easily lived longer, but she succumbed early due to some medical malpractices.
This isnt really true. Unless you mean African-American by black. There are tons of black populations in africa that are massive milk drinkers (look up the East African Cattle Complex). These populations have evolved with cattle as a huge part of their subsistence but hardly ever kill them for meat.

[KNOW1EDGE]

I love the "organic" psychos who light up a cigarette after criticizing my piece of pizza.

[boozehound]

:applause:
It depends on what you mean. You should really look into the levels of pesticide residues on certain foods. We arent allowed to survey these fields when they have sprayed in the last week or so, but we can eat the residue? Our massive overdependence on pesticides and chemical fertilizers is impacting the entire gulf of mexico food chain - look at the dead zone around the delta). I worked in part of Ohio where you couldnt drink the tap water for over a month because of uncontrolled runoff of ag fields. Anything that helps us rethink our current ag system is ok by me.


Besides, organic isnt always more expensive. Many of the items in my grocery store in rural utah are the exact same price (or close enough), and I can buy way more produce at the farmers market for $10 than I can at the grocery store. You have to be smart about it. Dont buy a bunch of processed bullshit (organic or otherwise), but focus on the dirty dozen if you want to limit your pesticide exposure.

Chronic buildup is a legit health concern. Go back to kissing your own biceps blow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesticide_residue

[HarryCallahan]

They do irk me sometimes, but like all Dogma's it's only bothersome when they preach to you. People can eat whatever the fvck they want though, no skin off my back.

[B-Low]

It depends on what you mean. You should really look into the levels of pesticide residues on certain foods. We arent allowed to survey these fields when they have sprayed in the last week or so, but we can eat the residue? Our massive overdependence on pesticides and chemical fertilizers is impacting the entire gulf of mexico food chain - look at the dead zone around the delta). I worked in part of Ohio where you couldnt drink the tap water for over a month because of uncontrolled runoff of ag fields. Anything that helps us rethink our current ag system is ok by me.


Besides, organic isnt always more expensive. Many of the items in my grocery store in rural utah are the exact same price (or close enough), and I can buy way more produce at the farmers market for $10 than I can at the grocery store. You have to be smart about it. Dont buy a bunch of processed bullshit (organic or otherwise), but focus on the dirty dozen if you want to limit your pesticide exposure.

Chronic buildup is a legit health concern. Go back to kissing your own biceps blow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesticide_residue

I know there's some legit organic stuff, but if you're just walking around at Giant Eagle or Wal Mart I just don't see that big of a difference. I was at the grocery store the other day and there's PAM spray for like $2.00, then next to it there's Organic PAM for $5.00. Knowing damn well the stuff was probably made about 2 feet away from the regular stuff.

[Styles p]

nope, what other people chew up and swallow does not bother me the slightest bit.

[gigantes]

I know a dude who refuses to eat bread. He's not even an organic eater like that but he goes off on how humans weren't meant to consume bread :roll:
bread is delicious poison, and that's not factoring in the pesticide / GMO angles.

it may be safe to have bread and equivalents a small proportion of the time, but if you eat such crap regularly, you're basically spreading inflammation across your body from my understanding of nutritional / medical science.


@boozehound,
i've seen some postulations in various papers that HSS may have indeed become healthily accustomed to grain intake after 10,000 years of agriculture. still i'm kind of skeptical that even punctuated equilibrium could have managed this feat.

even weighing evolutionary payoffs for such adaptive ability in the face of biochemical forcings, i can see many arguments either way... just as a layman-asshole on ISH. what think?

[HarryCallahan]

bread is delicious poison, and that's not factoring in the pesticide / GMO angles.

it may be safe to have bread and equivalents a small proportion of the time, but if you eat such crap regularly, you're basically spreading inflammation across your body from my understanding of nutritional / medical science.


I know this, yet samidges are my favourite food. Also how am I supposed to eat eggs without toast.

[beer]

Who cares what bugs an alcoholic who's own family is ashamed of.

Look bakla, stop sourcing your whey from cows pumped with bovine growth hormone and people might buy your shitty supplements. Don't get mad at people for not wanting your low quality protein.

[DeuceWallaces]

I know there's some legit organic stuff, but if you're just walking around at Giant Eagle or Wal Mart I just don't see that big of a difference. I was at the grocery store the other day and there's PAM spray for like $2.00, then next to it there's Organic PAM for $5.00. Knowing damn well the stuff was probably made about 2 feet away from the regular stuff.

I hope you realize that Organic isn't some bullshit term that can be thrown around in the US. It's a legal binding contract for conditions under which the product was raised or grown.

[HarryCallahan]

I hope you realize that Organic isn't some bullshit term that can be thrown around in the US. It's a legal binding contract for conditions under which the product was raised or grown.

Right, and those conditions are flimsy as all hell. I think that's what he was taking issue with.

[DeuceWallaces]

They're not flimsy, they're legally defined.

[gigantes]

I know this, yet samidges are my favourite food. Also how am I supposed to eat eggs without toast.
i know, i know... :cheers:

giving up bread, pasta and crackers is pretty much like telling myself that i hate myself.


i'll just level, bro-- my family has really bad thyroid disease. such as, it shoots our inflammation way, way up regardless of what we eat, and we all pretty much die early of heart attacks and/or strokes.

i'm left with nothing here but a sense of brotherhood.

[HarryCallahan]

They're not flimsy, they're legally defined.

Yes, and poorly so. I can package organic peas and peas fertilized with sewage together and label it "organic" so long as the ratio is 20:1.

[HarryCallahan]

i know, i know... :cheers:

giving up bread, pasta and crackers is pretty much like telling myself that i hate myself.


i'll just level, bro-- my family has really bad thyroid disease. such as, it shoots our inflammation way, way up regardless of what we eat, and we all pretty much die early of heart attacks and/or strokes.

i'm left with nothing here but a sense of brotherhood.

The min killer for my family is prostate cancer, so I can eat all the grainy carbs I want so long as I keep batin'.

[Norcaliblunt]

I eat raw meat all day everyday. Raw organic grass or pasture fed fresh from the Amish farm meat. Raw beef, raw bison, raw chicken, raw duck, raw lamb, raw elk, raw venison, raw livers, raw testies, raw spleens, raw thyroid glands, raw hearts, raw bone morrow, raw eggs, raw pork, etc etc. yeah I'm picky about my food because corporate assembly line shit can kill you on a diet like this.

I do find people addicted to bread funny. It's almost like drug addiction with the denial people show with the hostility when someone questions it. I was there once it can be conquered.

[gigantes]

The min killer for my family is prostate cancer, so I can eat all the grainy carbs I want so long as I keep batin'.
and don't forget to pick up the pot of gold every time a unicorn jumps over the nearest rainbow.

[XxNeXuSxX]

What are the facts?
My question exactly.

[HarryCallahan]

and don't forget to pick up the pot of gold every time a unicorn jumps over the nearest rainbow.

I don't think I have time, with all my prostate "exercises"

[XxNeXuSxX]

The most purchased product in our industry is protein powder. Whey protein is no different than any form of meat/vegetable protein when it broken down into it's components. Therefor it's food. Is food a sham?

I think the people who are uneducated in supplements usually resort to calling it a sham
That's astounding irony. Do you actually believe this? All it takes is a simple google scholar search, or a simple understanding of the digestive system to grasp how ignorant this statement is. Or maybe, "uneducated"
Meat Protein

When most people in the developed world think protein, they think beef. We're talking steaks, hamburgers, hot dogs, roast beef. We're talking "hungry man food." If you have any doubt, just look at pictures of a training table for most athletes. But how good is meat as a primary source of healthy protein?

On the plus side, meat protein is complete. It contains all the essential amino acids. And it's not particularly allergenic. On the other hand, it's not particularly concentrated -- containing only about 20% usable protein by weight. And meat protein is not particularly nutrient dense, inflicting a significant number of calories on your body along with the protein. It also tends to promote colon cancer -- particularly if grilled at high temperatures. And unless you're buying organic grass fed beef (you absolutely want organic), it also comes complete with high levels of antibiotics, pesticides, hormones, an unhealthy ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3 fatty acids, and the risk of E. coli contamination -- not to mention high levels of saturated fat.

You'll get about 23 grams of protein in a three ounce serving of beef, along with about 15 grams of fat. The biological value is about 70, and the net protein utilization is about 73.

Poultry Protein

Chicken and turkey are considered the "lighter," "less expensive" alternatives to beef. And in fact, lean turkey or chicken, without the skin, will provide about 27 grams of protein in a three ounce serving, along with about 2-3 grams of fat. Poultry has a biological value of about 80.

But unless you're eating organic, chicken protein, it also contains large amounts of antibiotics, arsenic (oh yes, it's a government approved additive), and of course chicken leukosis cancer tumors.

Fish Protein

Fish is a good high protein food. It contains reasonable amounts of quality protein, virtually no carbohydrates, and little saturated fat. Although the amount of fat and protein are about equal (5 grams in a 3 ounce serving), the fats tend to be highly beneficial Omega-3 fatty acids. Depending on the type of fish, its biological value ranges from 70-80, and it has a net protein utilization of 81, about the same as that found in poultry.

Unfortunately, if wild caught, it's likely to have high levels of mercury, and if farm-raised, high levels of antibiotics and dioxin.

Pork Protein

Back in the late 80's television ads helped to turn around declining demand for pork. The National Pork Board launched their remarkable repositioning campaign, "Pork, The Other White Meat." It worked. The campaign effectively made people equate pork to chicken, as opposed to beef.

Then came the bird flu scare, and suddenly any association with chicken was unacceptable as millions of chickens were being slaughtered worldwide to prevent the spread of avian flu. At that point, the pork producers launched their, "Pork, It's Not Chicken" campaign.

That said:

The old dictum that pork is unhealthier than beef or chicken simply is no longer true -- unless you are still eating pork raised in a third world country that allows pigs to feed on garbage -- or corpses for any of you who saw the movie Snatch.
Also, the old myth that pork is more indigestible than meat is likewise not true. That was just another way to warn people off pork when it was garbage fed. In fact, pork is slightly more digestible than beef.
But it's also slightly higher in fat.
It has all of the other problems associated with meat -- high in antibiotics, etc.
And "free range pork" is remarkably rare. Virtually all of the pork available in the United States comes from animal factories that are inherently cruel, literally driving the animals mad in response to their "living" conditions.
Milk Protein

The National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases (NIDDK) estimate that 30 to 50 million Americans are lactose intolerant. These are people who cannot digest lactose, the sugar found in dairy products. According to the FDA, symptoms include gas, stomach cramps, diarrhea, etc. However, many others are also allergic to dairy products (lactose intolerance is not technically an allergy), specifically the proteins found in milk. In any case, these poorly digested bovine antigens (substances that provoke an immune reaction) like casein become "allergens" in allergic individuals. Dairy products are one of the leading causes of food allergies, often revealed by diarrhea, constipation, and fatigue. Many cases of asthma and sinus infections are reported to be relieved and even eliminated by completely cutting out dairy. The exclusion of dairy in your diet, however, must be 100% to see any real benefit. An 8 oz glass of milk will provide 8-9 grams of protein and 5-10 grams of fat. It has biological value of 80-90 and a net protein utilization of about 81.

[XxNeXuSxX]

Differences between proteins (continued)
Whey Protein

When it comes to protein supplementation now, whey is king. It has pushed aside milk based protein supplements, egg proteins, and soy proteins to totally dominate the field. Why? Quite simply is has an extremely high biological value ranging from 90-100 for whey concentrate and from 100-150 for whey isolate. It's also high in the branch chain amino acids and is quickly absorbed by the human body.

Unfortunately, it's also highly allergenic. The problem isn't lactose or casein (a major allergen in milk) since they are both either removed or at significantly reduced levels in whey. However, the main protein fractions in whey (beta-lactoglobulin, alpha-lactalbumin, and bovine serum albumin) are all highly allergenic. In addition, whey tends to have much more cholesterol in it than would normally be recommended.

A question worth considering is how many people are actually allergic to dairy and whey? Officially, that number is only about 1-3%. However, when you redefine that number to include anyone who generates extra mucous from eating dairy, suffers from constipation from eating dairy, or feels bloated after eating dairy, you're probably looking at numbers closer to 60-70%. And if you actually expand the number to include anyone who suffers from mild systemic inflammation after eating dairy -- and thus retention of water -- some believe that number approaches 100%. There are no official studies to support these numbers; they are just the numbers that some people have seen who work with athletes, martial artists, and even bodybuilders.

And finally, whey contributes to two conditions, aminoacidemia and intestinal toxemia. Check out our page on "protein concerns" for more information.

As a side note, the entire whey industry results from a desire to extract commercial value from what was once a waste product of the cheese industry. When you curdle milk to make cheese, it splits the milk into two components, curds and whey. The curd is the "solid" part that's used to make cheese. The liquid whey used to be considered a waste product, but then manufacturers began to heat the whey to evaporate the water and concentrate the protein in it. Now, there are more advanced filtration techniques available to concentrate the protein down and leave it in forms, such as whey isolate, that are more readily used by the body. But it still has many of the same problems.

Egg Protein

At one time, before sophisticated whey processing emerged, eggs were considered the optimum protein supplement. In fact, the whole biological value scale is based on egg protein ranking a benchmark 100. However, eggs are arguably the most allergenic of all proteins. Oh, and for those of you who eat only egg whites, it should be noted that the allergenic proteins are concentrated in the egg whites.

And finally, because of their high sulfur content, eggs make for intestinal gas. Though this is not necessarily a major problem if you're a single bodybuilder with no plans to ever marry or meet anyone socially.

Egg Whites Versus Whole Eggs

Okay, while we're on the subject, let's talk about the myths associated with eggs.

First of all, contrary to popular belief, because whole eggs have a better amino acid profile than egg whites, the protein is more bioavailable in whole eggs than in egg whites. Whole eggs are also much more nutrient dense than egg whites since egg yolks contain all of the vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and Omega-3 fatty acids (if you're eating free range chicken eggs). In fact, other than protein, egg whites are pretty much nutrient dead. And as for cholesterol concerns, recent studies do not support them.

But, all that said, the protein in eggs is still highly allergic.

Soy Protein

Soy protein is not an effective alternative. It is high in allergens (some 28 different proteins present in soy have been found to bind to IgE antibodies). It's also worth noting that the more soy protein you eat, the more likely you are to develop allergies to it -- and the more severe those allergies are likely to become. Soy also blocks the absorption of important minerals such as calcium unless the phytates have been removed, and soy contains high levels of phytoestrogens, which although beneficial in moderate amounts, can be counter-productive in large amounts -- particularly for children.

In addition, although its biological value is not bad at 70-80, it's net protein utilization at 61 is quite low. In fact, unless it has been fermented, soy protein contains potent enzyme inhibitors that block the action of trypsin and other enzymes needed for protein digestion. This can create significant amounts of gas, in addition to promoting pathological conditions of the pancreas, including cancer. As a side note, soy protein was once considered a waste product of the soy oil industry and used almost exclusively as cattle feed.

Chlorella Protein

Although it looks similar, chlorella is an entirely separate plant from spirulina and blue green algae. In fact, it belongs to an entirely different kingdom and phylum.

Hemp Seed Protein

Hemp seed protein has some unique features. First, 65% of the total protein content of hemp seed comes from the globular protein edestin, which is easily digested, absorbed, and utilized by the human body. As a side note, it closely resembles the globulin found in human blood plasma, which is vital to maintaining a healthy immune system. As such, edestin has the unique ability to stimulate the manufacture of antibodies against foreign invaders. It is also hypoallergenic.

As a complete food, hemp seed is great, one of the super foods, but as a protein supplement, less so. As straight ground hemp seed, it is only about 30% protein. Even in concentrated form it will only push to around 50% protein. Also, although the proteins in hemp (edestin and albumin) are great immune builders, they are less effective as muscle builders.

Buckwheat, millet, beans, etc.

Yes, a number of grains and beans are technically complete proteins and can serve as a foundational protein for vegetarian diets. However, they tend to be unbalanced in their amino acid ratios. This means that you have to eat them in proper combinations -- and you have to eat more of them than of animal proteins to obtain an equivalent value.

They are great for what they are (foundational foods), but they are not adequate for use as a "protein supplement" as required by athletes, people looking to lose weight, senior citizens, or people looking to recover from a prolonged illness. To build muscle mass, you need a more concentrated source of protein and a better mix of branch chain amino acids.

Cyanobacteria protein: spirulina and blue green algae

Spirulina is one of the great super foods. It is approximately 65 to 71 percent complete protein in its natural state. This is higher than virtually any other unprocessed food. (Note: whey protein, for example, has to be extracted and concentrated from dairy to reach higher levels.) And unlike most other forms of protein, the protein in spirulina is 85-95% digestible; again, one of the highest levels available. And finally, since spirulina has no cellulose in its cell walls, it is extremely easy for the body to break it down. In fact, its amino acids are delivered to the body for almost instant absorption.

So what's wrong with it?

First, it's not inexpensive. Klamath Lake blue green algae (a close cousin of spirulina -- they're both cyanobacteria) runs $40-80 a lb. Generic spirulina runs $15-40 a lb.

But $15 a lb would not be too much to pay for a high quality protein source, except for the taste -- somewhere between seaweed and grass. In small amounts, 1-4 grams a day in capsule form, it's easy enough to take. But if you're an athlete or bodybuilder or someone looking to recover from injury or illness and looking for 70-200 mg a day of protein, eating that much seaweed and grass could be tough for most people to manage.

And finally, about 30% of the worlds' population can't handle spirulina -- being either allergic to it, or suffering from toxins present in the spirulina that may have been absorbed from the water in which the spirulina is grown. (This is particularly a problem with algae grown in public bodies of water such as Klamath Lake, which are boating lakes.)
.

[XxNeXuSxX]

And for Good measure

Rice And Yellow Pea Protein

A combination of rice and yellow pea protein might sound unappetizing to some. And, in fact, straight rice protein tends to be chalky in texture and unpleasantly blah in taste. But if done right, the combination of rice and pea protein actually provides one of the best tasting protein concentrates available. With that in mind…

Rice Protein

Standard cooked rice has a protein content of only 5%-7%. To make concentrated rice protein, whole brown rice is ground into flour, then mixed with water. Natural enzymes are then added sequentially to break down and separate out the carbohydrates and fibers from the protein portion of the slurry. Since the process is enzyme based, temperature must be kept low to preserve the enzyme activity levels. Low temperature and chemical free processing prevent the denaturing of amino acids, as is frequently seen in soy and dairy processing. The end product is 80-90% pure, hypoallergenic, easily digested protein. After four hours, the body digests over 86% of all ingested rice protein, compared with about 57% for soy. In the end, rice protein has a biological value of between 70-80, a net protein utilization of about 76, and a total absorption ration of some 98%.

Note: rice protein is high in the amino acids cysteine and methionine, but tends to be low in lysine, which negatively impacts its bioavailability. If you can raise its lysine levels, you can dramatically increase its bioavailability.

Pea Protein

When it comes to perception, more people have a problem with the "idea" of pea protein than with rice protein. But in fact, pea protein has a very mild, pleasantly sweet taste. It's one of the better tasting proteins. Pea protein is the concentrated natural protein fraction of yellow peas. The process used for concentrating pea protein is water based, making the end product very "natural."

The Beneficial Combination of Rice and Pea Proteins

As mentioned above, rice protein is high in cysteine and methionine, but tends to be low in lysine. Yellow pea protein, on the other hand, tends to be low in the sulfur containing amino acids, cysteine and methionine -- but high in lysine. The bottom line is that when used in combination, rice protein and yellow pea protein offer a Protein Efficiency Ratio that begins to rival dairy and egg -- but without their potential to promote allergic reactions. In addition, the texture of pea protein helps smooth out the "chalkiness" of rice protein. Like rice protein, it is hypoallergenic and easily digested.

On a different note, the rice/pea combo also has a nice branch chain amino acid profile -- only slightly less than whey

[XxNeXuSxX]

I love the "organic" psychos who light up a cigarette after criticizing my piece of pizza.
Guilty, smoking organic cigarettes.

[Norcaliblunt]

For a protein shake I blend up raw bison liver, raw bison thyroid, raw bison testies, raw fermented cod liver oil, some raw eggs, raw coconut cream, raw kiefer, raw honey, and a little bit of kombucha. Screw a protein powder supplement.

[HarryCallahan]

No one's reading any of that bro.

[HarryCallahan]

For a protein shake I blend up raw bison liver, raw bison thyroid, raw bison testies, raw fermented cod liver oil, some raw eggs, raw coconut cream, raw kiefer, raw honey, and a little bit of kombucha. Screw a protein powder supplement.


You eat gross sh!t bro. No surprise you're from the "Emerald Triangle."

[Norcaliblunt]

You eat gross sh!t bro. No surprise you're from the "Emerald Triangle."

I'm real deal paleo, not that weak ass eating cooked meat BS. I eat raw meat with my bare hands like a real man. All you processed carb addicted fools who eat nothing but filler and can't stop eating toast are beyatches. The stuff I eat is bloody and all natural as hell, if wimps can't step their game up and wanna hate then fukk'um.

[blablabla]

My Family usually tries to buy all our meat, vegetables and fruit from local farmers and for stuff we can't get from locals like bananas we go for fair trade stuff. I think this is a contribution to the local economy everyone, as long as money isn't a problem, should make.
I also switched to smoking organic cigarettes.

[BankShot]

Well I guess I'm one of those types. If I can help it, I would rather buy food with less preservatives, less processed and organic ingredients. I don't push my belief onto others and let them eat whatever they desire.

I was about to post the same thing. I guess that makes us granola-eating, tree-hugging, hypocrite p*ssies.

[hateraid]

Nice replies!

I gotta drop my kid off at school but I'll come back and address everyone who directed questions and comments at me
:cheers:

[hateraid]

Please. Such a cop out.

The supplement crowd are just as much "food extremist snobs" as those all natural hippies. Which is exactly the reason you loathe them so much, you are just a different branch of food nut.

I'll take accountability for some of that. Although I would say the image is tarnished more by the people who use supplements placing a high expectations on products and as they achieve their results gives them a sense of entitlement. Don't get me wrong, I loathe those people just as much and admit it gives our industry a bad rep, I guarantee the majority of my industry does not act this way. You're looking more at those fitness models, body builders, and supp junkies.
Same as the granolas. I'm not against the lifestyle at all. In fact my best friend is ALL of the above. He makes a conscious effort to purchase gluten free and non-GMO. The difference is he never tries to impose that on me or anybody else. He conducts his life as if he used conventional products.
Comparing the 2 I would definitely say the granolas tend to be more narrow in their beliefs and are more extremists in practicing them

[hateraid]

Well I guess I'm one of those types. If I can help it, I would rather buy food with less preservatives, less processed and organic ingredients. I don't push my belief onto others and let them eat whatever they desire.

I applaud you for that. What you eat is not a concern to me, it's the fact that you don't feel a need to impose that to anyone is what makes me respect your lifestyle choices.

I think people got me pegged in the I don't care category. I definitely make conscious efforts to purchase all-natural and organic as much as I can. The reality is it is not functional on my budget. But I rarely ever have processed food, artificial sweetened beverages, or sweets and treats. In fact all my body care products in my house are from a company called Botanique (http://www.store.kuuala.com/collection/efgh/himalaya-botanique/body-care.html?dir=asc&order=name). 100% free of all excipients. No SLS, parabens, and other additives and preservatives. But you won't see me looking down at someone who likes their Outrageous shampoo. It's a lifestyle choice I'm committed to and will share if anyone asks or works into a conversation.

[hateraid]

Commercial Whey Protein is a sham. You're pretty uneducated yourself.

I asked you what you do for a living but didn't respond.
You seem pretty sure of your statements yet I've got to ask you, have you ever purchased raw material whey? Have you ever had to check quality control and put producers through the ringer in terms of following FDA guidelines on raw materials? Have you actually seen or examined the raw material?
You remind me of that scene in 300 where the Acadians wanted to join the fight. Leonidas asked the Acadians what they do for a living. None of them were actual soldiers.
What is my profession?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZzOWwoVdN4

Dymatize is a self manufacturing supplement company. Which means we personally inspect and qualify all raw materials that we use in our products. We have to check for impurities, GMP and international manufacturing practices on all our products. We purchase other raw materials from pharmaceutical grade companies. That is the standards we practice with.
To say all whey is pasteurized dairy is as ignorant as saying penicillin is just a mold.
If you have doubts about it you can always PM me an I can forward your inquiry to our in house scientist.

[hateraid]

BTW since you're the supplement expert, what is your thoughts about Pea Protein:

http://www.nowfoods.com/Pea-Protein-2-lbs.htm

I usually just mix it in my smoothies after a work out.

I can't stand it. Hard to mask and mix. As for being a valuable source for post workout I would say it's very incomplete. But I'm not against it for people who want to use it as an alternative source
Just for the record I'm not con on the majority of proteins. Ultimately I think as long as some has their RDA it's cool with me

[hateraid]

Paleo people don't really bug me.


But people who 100% consume organic whole wheat pasta and criticize my white rice consumption piss me off a lot lol.

This is exactly the attitude I speak of. That paleo group though, I have yet to see somebody follow through for more than 6 months. It seems like a fad everyone wants to "try" yet rarely succeed

[hateraid]

Who cares what bugs an alcoholic who's own family is ashamed of.

Look bakla, stop sourcing your whey from cows pumped with bovine growth hormone and people might buy your shitty supplements. Don't get mad at people for not wanting your low quality protein.

:roll:
This is by far my favorite response. I am genuinely not offended and am actually flattered you took the time to really identify me

:cheers:

[hateraid]

That's astounding irony. Do you actually believe this? All it takes is a simple google scholar search, or a simple understanding of the digestive system to grasp how ignorant this statement is. Or maybe, "uneducated"

I think you over dissected what I stated and really didn't simplify what I was trying to get across.

I'll quote again what I posted and I'll highlight the point I was trying to get across:


The most purchased product in our industry is protein powder. Whey protein is no different than any form of meat/vegetable protein when it broken down into it's components. Therefor it's food. Is food a sham?

This was in response to LJJ saying whey protein is a sham. My intent was pointing out that whey protein is a food at the end of the day and how can food be a sham?
I wasn't actually saying all proteins are equal based on their constituents and phytonutrients. I think that's where you misinterpreted my post. If I actually believed that I would only eat one source of protein.
What I was trying to say is that once it is broken down in the body it is broken down into amino acids and then restrung into muscle or utilized to promote other functions. When it is in that state your body doesn't know it came from a chicken, a pig, a pea, or a powdered whey. At the end of this process amino acids=amino acids. Plain and simple. I'm actually slightly offended you took it the other way and called me ignorant, Especially since I took post secondary education in food and nutrition and made a profession in this field. As well as my brand contains a variety of protein besides whey (egg, beef, pea), it's in my job description to educate on those difference. But I follow what you're saying. No harm no foul.

As for what you did post I get presented with this on a constant basis. I would say most of it is true, but I would say there is definitely alot of bias.
Like I said, people will subject themselves to what ever point they want to prove right. I can show you dozens of other sites to research that counter that and even give you dozens of examples of why whey protein is superior. The problem is trying to convey that message usually falls on deaf ears due to people will not accept alternative POV once they are sold on an idea (not meant to be an insult).

[hateraid]

I was about to post the same thing. I guess that makes us granola-eating, tree-hugging, hypocrite p*ssies.

Not trying to throw you specifically under the bus but this is exactly the attitude I get from alot of granolas.
You said you wanted to post the same thing, how did ALB manage to post it without being snarky about it? It's the people like ALB who I respect who live the life but not have to be overbearing about it.

[Budadiiii]

I asked you what you do for a living but didn't respond.
You seem pretty sure of your statements yet I've got to ask you, have you ever purchased raw material whey? Have you ever had to check quality control and put producers through the ringer in terms of following FDA guidelines on raw materials? Have you actually seen or examined the raw material?
You remind me of that scene in 300 where the Acadians wanted to join the fight. Leonidas asked the Acadians what they do for a living. None of them were actual soldiers.
What is my profession?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZzOWwoVdN4

Dymatize is a self manufacturing supplement company. Which means we personally inspect and qualify all raw materials that we use in our products. We have to check for impurities, GMP and international manufacturing practices on all our products. We purchase other raw materials from pharmaceutical grade companies. That is the standards we practice with.
To say all whey is pasteurized dairy is as ignorant as saying penicillin is just a mold.
If you have doubts about it you can always PM me an I can forward your inquiry to our in house scientist.
I'm an affiliate marketer and I do various jobs for a guitar pedal manufacturer. (accounting, shipping, advertising, promoting, market research... etc)

Will be attending university in January for personal endeavors.

I think you misinterpreted what I said, or didn't day... I don't think I ever implied that all whey is pasteurized dairy, or certainly didn't mean to. Obviously I am a proponent of Non-Denatured whey protein, which is sold commercially, but direct only a miniscule % of the sales and production. The majority of the whey protein on the market is pasteurized dairy, which is mainly what I was trying to imply, and that a large majority of the people who go out looking for a whey product, will find themselves purchasing one of those products which will probably do them more harm than good. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[hateraid]

I hope you realize that Organic isn't some bullshit term that can be thrown around in the US. It's a legal binding contract for conditions under which the product was raised or grown.

I'm going to have to agree more with Harry here. Not saying you're wrong, and I can vouch for many companies that follow the more ethical approach. I can say that you're right, it is in fact legally binding, but there are loopholes you can get around and still be certified organic.
As for Harry, it's not as flimsy as you think, but you're right, there are companies that use this to promote their product in the loosest terms. but that's where it comes down to advertising and what certifications they use.

If a company uses this symbol on their labels:

http://www.nonasfinefoods.com/images/usda-logo.jpg

You bet your ass that that products are 100% organic compliant. I work with a company called Himalaya Herbal Healthcare and to get this on your label you must be compliant to 100% of the organic guidelines. To show how serious this label means:
- you can't have water in your product as water isn't a certified organic product
- if the binders or filler make up 5% of the weight then it cannot be labelled organic even if the actual product is all organic (Himalaya is binded by the natural resins of the plant which can be claimed as organic)
- It cannot be manufactured in a container that has manufactured non-organic material

There are many companies who abuse the term organic, but if you have full certification, I guarantee those products are fully compliant

[hateraid]

I'm an affiliate marketer and I do various jobs for a guitar pedal manufacturer. (accounting, shipping, advertising, promoting, market research... etc)

Will be attending university in January for personal endeavors.

I think you misinterpreted what I said, or didn't day... I don't think I ever implied that all whey is pasteurized dairy, or certainly didn't mean to. Obviously I am a proponent of Non-Denatured whey protein, which is sold commercially, but direct only a miniscule % of the sales and production. The majority of the whey protein on the market is pasteurized dairy, which is mainly what I was trying to imply, and that a large majority of the people who go out looking for a whey product, will find themselves purchasing one of those products which will probably do them more harm than good. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Fair enough bud :cheers:
I see where I misinterpreted you

And yes you are correct in that the vast majority is sold as pasteurized dairy and used for bigger commercial use. In our industry we purchase such a small percentage of it but filter it to come out with our end product.
The pasteurized whey you mention are bought in large commodities by companies like Nestle and Pepsi

[ILLsmak]

I try to eat healthy...

I don't know how much all of that other shit matters, but I do check out nutritional facts and have tried to go away from shit with no value. I think it's had a positive effect.

In fact, I encourage you all to do it as well. Eating isn't all about enjoying yourself, it's about giving your body the fuel to survive and perform at its optimal potential.

-Smak

[NotYetGreat]

Hateraid, I think a lot of the heat you're getting from the others is because of the way supp companies promote their products. You and B-Low are absolutely right. People who fully depend on the supp, thinking that it's the "magic bullet" while leaving everything else needed to attain/maintain a healthy body/self are nuts. Conversely, a lot of people think that way simply because that's how most supplements are advertised - magic bullets. Lose fat fast, get stronger instantly, and get bigger in 5 minutes, complete with before and after pictures where the guy obviously just flexes the shit out of his muscles and puts on his best "I don't give a flying ****" face, are commonplace in all the BB magazines/sites/etc. So I won't AND can't blame you, but I do have some unfavorable words for the ones who make those ads and actually let them slide for the public to see.

That aside, you guys still have the best whey I've ever tried, bar none (even if I don't use whey anymore).

[HarryCallahan]

I'm real deal paleo, not that weak ass eating cooked meat BS. I eat raw meat with my bare hands like a real man. All you processed carb addicted fools who eat nothing but filler and can't stop eating toast are beyatches. The stuff I eat is bloody and all natural as hell, if wimps can't step their game up and wanna hate then fukk'um.

You're a fakkit bro. You're going to die... soon. Eating the most disgusting things you can find will give you another 5-10 years of arthritic, demented, incontinent life. I'll gladly eat delicious tasting food and drink yummy beer and be happy, instead of looking down on people for what they eat, like a typical north cali a-hole. Enjoy being a stereo-type brah.

[gigantes]

I was about to post the same thing. I guess that makes us granola-eating, tree-hugging, hypocrite p*ssies.

Not trying to throw you specifically under the bus but this is exactly the attitude I get from alot of granolas.
You said you wanted to post the same thing, how did ALB manage to post it without being snarky about it? It's the people like ALB who I respect who live the life but not have to be overbearing about it.
well, he's probably talking about a somewhat different situation. like... it sounds like he's eating a smart diet and doesn't proselytise it, but is irked by those who target him anyway.

'that dude eats organic, so he must think he's hot shit. i'm gonna call him a granola, tree-hugging, hippie (with a sneer on my lips).'

...

btw, is there anyone here who thinks that eating granola is actually a good idea? it's common form is a processed food full of sugars and preservatives, after all.

[hateraid]

Hateraid, I think a lot of the heat you're getting from the others is because of the way supp companies promote their products. You and B-Low are absolutely right. People who fully depend on the supp, thinking that it's the "magic bullet" while leaving everything else needed to attain/maintain a healthy body/self are nuts. Conversely, a lot of people think that way simply because that's how most supplements are advertised - magic bullets. Lose fat fast, get stronger instantly, and get bigger in 5 minutes, complete with before and after pictures where the guy obviously just flexes the shit out of his muscles and puts on his best "I don't give a flying ****" face, are commonplace in all the BB magazines/sites/etc. So I won't AND can't blame you, but I do have some unfavorable words for the ones who make those ads and actually let them slide for the public to see.

That aside, you guys still have the best whey I've ever tried, bar none (even if I don't use whey anymore).

Thanks bud :cheers:
I get why people are so against this industry. Since my days of being a store manager at GNC I've always try to convert the masses to investing into a healthier lifestyle. But they are so convinced of the ads that my personal advice was in one ear, out the other. Then they are the first to come back and try to return the product and declare this industry a sham.
I get it, ads give us a bad rep, but it is also asset to even get these people into stores. At least it gives the front line of our industry the change to try and educate those who are willing to listen.

If both the skeptics and the fanatics took the word "supplement" literally which is this (directly from the dictionary)

1. Something added to complete a thing, make up for a deficiency, or extend or strengthen the whole.
Then maybe everyone would have a clear understanding of what this industry is truly about and those sinister ads would be harmless

[boozehound]

well, he's probably talking about a somewhat different situation. like... it sounds like he's eating a smart diet and doesn't proselytise it, but is irked by those who target him anyway.

'that dude eats organic, so he must think he's hot shit. i'm gonna call him a granola, tree-hugging, hippie (with a sneer on my lips).'

...

btw, is there anyone here who thinks that eating granola is actually a good idea? it's common form is a processed food full of sugars and preservatives, after all.
right, you came in with a disparaging attitude towards people who eat like this. You cant expect them to not respond with some snark or defensive animosity. Or in a somewhat apologetic way (like ALB).

Think about it like this. If someone started a thread "Do these "asian american" folk really bug you?" or something like that, you are not going to come in with a neutral approach. If the thread title was "what do people think about eating all natural", you would get a more neutral tone. Its all how you word the question/thread title

[DeuceWallaces]

No one's reading any of that bro.

Ha, I read all of that bro.

[DeuceWallaces]

If a company uses this symbol on their labels:

http://www.nonasfinefoods.com/images/usda-logo.jpg



That's precisely what I was talking about. If you have only basic knowledge you know that is the only symbol that matters. Apparently Harry is trusting whatever people tell him or write on their package.

[hateraid]

right, you came in with a disparaging attitude towards people who eat like this. You cant expect them to not respond with some snark or defensive animosity. Or in a somewhat apologetic way (like ALB).

Fair enough, I guess when anyone feels backed into a corner it's either fight or flight

My apologies to bankshot for taking that approach
:cheers:

[hateraid]

That's precisely what I was talking about. If you have only basic knowledge you know that is the only symbol that matters. Apparently Harry is trusting whatever people tell him or write on their package.

It is a certification that is 100% upheld to the very highest standards. I work internally with a couple of companies who have this logo on their labels and there is 100% compliance
But in Harry's defense there are alot of companies who claim organic through various loopholes.
For example there's this wine company in California who says organic wine on the label. The wine itself is not made from organic grapes, but the rubber that presses it is organic material.
That may be a little extreme of an example but there are many companies who use that approach

[HarryCallahan]

Apparently Harry is trusting whatever people tell him or write on their package.

I have no idea why you would think that. I rarely look at packaging in supermarkets, the only time when it really matters is if a reg and low-fat item have similar packaging.

[gigantes]

I have no idea why you would think that. I rarely look at packaging in supermarkets, the only time when it really matters is if a reg and low-fat item have similar packaging.
wait... what? you're saying there's yet another 'conspiracy' afoot, and we all need to firebomb (or ignore) the FDA?