Rank the Top 10 Point Guards In the League

[Sheik1287]

1. Chris Paul
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Derrick Rose
4. Rajon Rondo
5. Stephen Curry
6. Deron Williams
7. Tony Parker
8. Kyrie Irving
9. John Wall
10. Damian Lillard

[iTare]

1.Rose
2.Paul
3.Westbrook
4.Curry
5.Parker
6.Irving
7.Rondo
8.Williams
9.Wall
10.Lillard

[iTare]

1. Chris Paul
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Derrick Rose
4. Rajon Rondo
5. Stephen Curry
6. Deron Williams
7. Tony Parker
8. Kyrie Irving
9. John Wall
10. Damian Lillard

Hehe, you had forgotten Parker :oldlol:

[Sheik1287]

Hehe, you had forgotten Parker :oldlol:
Yeah lol

[Inferno]

1. Chris Paul
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Stephen Curry
4. Derrick Rose
5. Deron Williams
6. Tony Parker
7. Kyrie Irving
8. Rajon Rondo
9. John Wall
10. Jrue Holiday / Damian Lillard

[Young X]

CP
Rose/Westbrook
D-Will
Curry
Kyrie
Tony Choker
GAWD Wall
Dame Lillard
Nash
Rondo

[SamuraiSWISH]

CP
Rose/Westbrook
D-Will
Curry
Kyrie
Tony Choker
GAWD Wall
Dame Lillard
Nash
Rondo
This man knows his guards, 100% truth.

I only put Tony Parker over John Walls and Dame Lillard due to reputation, and longevity.

Otherwise, they're better than him as well.

:pimp:

[EricGordon23]

1. Chris Paul
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Deron Williams
4. Tony Parker
5. Stephen Curry
6. Rajon rondo
7. John Wall
8. Kyrie Irving
9. Jrue Holiday
10. Damian Lillard

I am not ranking Drose Since I haven't seen him play for the longest time.

[alexd]

cp3
deron(if he comes back to utah form.If he doesn t this year he ll never will)
parker
wall
curry
irving
lillard
lawson
rubio

i didn t put rose,wb and rondo since they come back from injuries and we have to see if they come back 100%
in case everyone comes back 100% then
cp3
deron
wb
parker
rose
wall
rondo
curry
irving
lillard
lawson
rubio

[FatComputerNerd]

Kyrie > Curry

[fpliii]

Kyrie > Curry

:applause:

[Phenith]

With Westbrook and Rose coming of major injuries, CP3 is undisputed #1, but after that is gets pretty foggy, the young guns are taking aim at the top spots but still have to prove their worthiness.

CP3 (Will be debatable #1 until he starts his decline or gets injured)
Westbrook/Curry/Irving (Westbrook would be alone at #2 if he wasn't injured, Curry and Irving are the future of PG right now, but both have missed a bunch of games with non major injuries)
Williams/Parker (Williams is top 2 talent, he just hasn't done well out of the Utah system and Parker is a career overachiever who has consistently pushed all the top guards game in and game out).
Wall (Still has potential to reach for the top of this list, but has struggled to have that break out season people have been looking for)
Holiday (Young all star, all around guard with more room to improve and could crack the top 5 at his peak)
Lillard (IMO we may have already seen his career year, still a top guard and will get better as his efficiency does)
Rondo (Double whammy on Rondo this year as he loses his star team mates AND is coming off knee surgery).

Of course Rose will be in there somewhere once he start playing again but we will have to see where exactly he fits after he has played some.

[ninephive]

1. Chris Paul
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Derrick Rose
4. Rajon Rondo
5. Stephen Curry
6. Deron Williams
7. Tony Parker
8. Kyrie Irving
9. John Wall
10. Damian Lillard
Tony Parker has won more playoff series than your top 5 "stars" COMBINED. And The bottom 3 have never even been to the playoffs. Try again. What a terrible, terrible mistake.

[ninephive]

This man knows his guards, 100% truth.

I only put Tony Parker over John Walls and Dame Lillard due to reputation, and longevity.

Otherwise, they're better than him as well.

:pimp:
Which is why no one should ever take you seriously.

[ninephive]

This man knows his guards, 100% truth.

I only put Tony Parker over John Walls and Dame Lillard due to reputation, and longevity.

Otherwise, they're better than him as well.

:pimp:
Then again, you're the same guy that didn't have the Spurs as one of the 10 best basketball franchises, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

[Young X]

Tony Parker has won more playoff series than your top 5 "stars" COMBINED. And The bottom 3 have never even been to the playoffs. Try again. What a terrible, terrible mistake.That's because he's one of the luckiest players to ever play in the NBA. Tony Choker on an individual level has no argument over most of those guys.

[ninephive]

That's because he's one of the luckiest players to ever play in the NBA. Tony Choker on an individual level has no argument over most of those guys.
He's so lucky! Being in the MVP discussion season after season, leading his team to the best record in the league multiple times, and sweeping Lebron in the Finals to win Finals MVP is soooooo LUCKY!!! Waaaaa!!!

[ninephive]

That's because he's one of the luckiest players to ever play in the NBA. Tony Choker on an individual level has no argument over most of those guys.
And please remind me when Tony Parker choked. You're probably referring to Game 1 of the Finals when he sealed the game over Lebron. Or maybe Game 6 when he went 3 pointer, steal, leaner, steal to take the Spurs from down 3 with 1:30 to up 4 with 0:36. Tony Parker sealed his 4th ring until Ginobili choked it away as he has for a couple other ones for Parker.

[All Net]

Paul
Rose
Westbrook

top 3 I would say...Rose/Westbrook is pretty close.

[Young X]

He didn't lead sh!t. He's arguably never even been the best player on his own team. He's like the 3rd or 4th reason why his teams win lol. Choker.

[Young X]

And please remind me when Tony Parker choked.:roll:

How about going 9-35 in the 2 most important games of your season?

or...

Putting up terrible numbers while your team loses to the 8th seed?

or...

Your numbers dropping in the playoffs every season of your career?

or...

Leading the worst choke in NBA history?

etc...

[ninephive]

He didn't lead sh!t. He's arguably never even been the best player on his own team. He's like the 3rd or 4th reason why his teams win lol. Choker.
They always give Finals MVP trophies to 3rd and 4th options! Hahahahahahaha are you honestly challged or you actually know that little about the Spurs?

[ninephive]

:roll:

How about going 9-35 in the 2 most important games of your season?

or...

Putting up terrible numbers while your team loses to the 8th seed?

or...

Your numbers dropping in the playoffs every season of your career?

or...

Leading the worst choke in NBA history?

etc...
Did you actually watch the Finals? He was hurt! And he still came up with clutch play after clutch play in THE most important game of the season.

And he didn't lead the choke. That would be Manu Ginobili. I'm serious when I say that I'm honestly not sure if you watched the Finals, and definitely not the WCF or any other series.

[Young X]

They always give Finals MVP trophies to 3rd and 4th options! Hahahahahahaha are you honestly challged or you actually know that little about the Spurs?Tony Choker is a one dimensional system PG. Duncan and Pop were/are more important than him. Maybe Manu too.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Tony Parker is so good that Pop decided to bench him for the final seconds of a game 7 of the Finals :lol

[ninephive]

:roll:

How about going 9-35 in the 2 most important games of your season?

or...

Putting up terrible numbers while your team loses to the 8th seed?

or...

Your numbers dropping in the playoffs every season of your career?

or...

Leading the worst choke in NBA history?

etc...
At least be fair and mention all of Chris Paul's chokes. I mean, this guy's career is one big choke. Am I right? I mean, come on. Show me you watch some basketball.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Did you actually watch the Finals? He was hurt! And he still came up with clutch play after clutch play in THE most important game of the season.

And he didn't lead the choke. That would be Manu Ginobili. I'm serious when I say that I'm honestly not sure if you watched the Finals, and definitely not the WCF or any other series.

lol at clutch. He shot like 6-23 that game. Game 7 Kobe-esque.

He then proceeded to throw up an air ball at the end of regulation.

[ninephive]

Tony Parker is so good that Pop decided to bench him for the final seconds of a game 7 of the Finals :lol
And look how it paid off for him! He's a great coach, but his love for Ginobili has cost the Spurs some playoff series, and this time it cost him a championship. Oh well, at least there are others we already have and the good news is Ginobili will be gone soon and Parker keeps improving each year and the Spurs keep getting better.

[Young X]

At least be fair and mention all of Chris Paul's chokes. I mean, this guy's career is one big choke. Am I right? I mean, come on. Show me you watch some basketball.Chris Paul raises his production in the playoffs, Parker's drops. Significantly. Paul, Williams, Rose haven't been blessed to play on great teams their whole careers like Parker.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

And look how it paid off for him! He's a great coach, but his love for Ginobili has cost the Spurs some playoff series, and this time it cost him a championship. Oh well, at least there are others we already have and the good news is Ginobili will be gone soon and Parker keeps improving each year and the Spurs keep getting better.

Ginobli was playing better than Parker in game 7. Do you agree with that?

[ninephive]

Ginobli was playing better than Parker in game 7. Do you agree with that?
Well yah, Ginobili wasn't hurt. And he still threw the ball into Lebron's hand like he was paid to do so in the clutch. Do you agree that Parker was remarkably clutch the last 1:30 of Game 6?

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Well yah, Ginobili wasn't hurt. And he still threw the ball into Lebron's hand like he was paid to do so in the clutch. Do you agree that Parker was remarkably clutch the last 1:30 of Game 6?

For the most part, except for the air ball he threw up at the end. Still, he shot 6-23 that game! Come on, that's terrible. I wouldn't give him much credit for those two plays. Duncan was the one that had a remarkable game, well the first half at least.

So what's the consensus among Spurs as to who cost them the series? I see a lot of people blaming Manu but asides from game 6 he wasn't that bad. Green was the one that went 2-19 those last two games.

[ninephive]

Chris Paul raises his production in the playoffs, Parker's drops. Significantly. Paul, Williams, Rose haven't been blessed to play on great teams their whole careers like Parker.
That's because Paul and Williams don't make teams great, only good. Which is why a Parker-led team has sent them fishing multiple times. If you want Parker to go to some crap team so he can take more shots and put up more numbers, sorry. The Spurs enjoy winning and playing the role that helps them do so. Crazy that you can be the best player on your team and lead the team to prolonged success, best records in the league, the Finals, and even a championship and not get credit because your team was good. No one wins championships on their own. Look at Lebron. A Parker-led team swept him in the Finals. So is Lebron not great because he couldn't win on his own and had to join up with multiple all-stars to even win one Finals game?

[Young X]

That's because Paul and Williams don't make teams great, only good. Which is why a Parker-led team has sent them fishing multiple timesNo, it's because he played with a much better supporting cast. Better teammates, better coaching, better management. He didn't outplay Paul in 2008 for example - his supporting cast did though. idk why you keep propping up Parker based on team success. Why don't you talk about him being one of the best penetrators in the league or being a great finisher around the rim or something like that, aka his ability? Maybe because you know he isn't the best ability wise?

[ninephive]

For the most part, except for the air ball he threw up at the end. Still, he shot 6-23 that game! Come on, that's terrible. I wouldn't give him much credit for those two plays. Duncan was the one that had a remarkable game, well the first half at least.

So what's the consensus among Spurs as to who cost them the series? I see a lot of people blaming Manu but asides from game 6 he wasn't that bad. Green was the one that went 2-19 those last two games.
Parker had what, 4 seconds to go the length of the floor and try and get a shot. Not even Pop can draw that one up. There is no one in SA I know of blaming Parker. He was hurt and still contributed in the clutch (and when Pop wasn't benching him and Duncan at the end of the most important games of the season). But Spurs fans know how much Pop loves Ginobili. You remember the GS comeback game where Ginobili hits the big shot to win? I was at that one and most people forget Ginobili airballed his first game-winner attempt and unlike Parker had a nice look at it. Also, no one is blaming Green. Dude was on the brink of stealing a Finals MVP if not for Duncan's strong finishes.

I really don't know if anyone understands this. Manu Ginobili had never had 8 turnovers in a game in his entire career (http://bkref.com/tiny/R58Cc). His entire career. And I don't know how to search this, but I'm fairly certain he hasn't had many quarters with 4 turnovers in his career. He did in the 4th quarter of Game 7. That's why there is no question Manu Ginobili cost the Spurs a championship in every sense of the word, even without considering his missed free throw or losing the ball (driving at the end of OT), even if he was fouled or traveled or whatever.

[ninephive]

No, it's because he played with a much better supporting cast. Better teammates, better coaching, better management. He didn't outplay Paul in 2008 for example - his supporting cast did though. idk why you keep propping up Parker based on team success. Why don't you talk about him being one of the best penetrators in the league or being a great finisher around the rim or something like that, aka his ability? Maybe because you know he isn't the best ability wise?
Ok, he's a great finisher, great scorer, has the best floater in the game, one of the fastest players in the game, is the focus of every team's best defender (Lebron in the Finals), shoots one of the highest percentages from the field of any point guard every year, etc, etc, etc. And all that is good and great, except lots of players have lots of different "abilities," but they don't always translate to wins.

[joeyjoejoe]

That's because Paul and Williams don't make teams great, only good. Which is why a Parker-led team has sent them fishing multiple times. If you want Parker to go to some crap team so he can take more shots and put up more numbers, sorry. The Spurs enjoy winning and playing the role that helps them do so. Crazy that you can be the best player on your team and lead the team to prolonged success, best records in the league, the Finals, and even a championship and not get credit because your team was good. No one wins championships on their own. Look at Lebron. A Parker-led team swept him in the Finals. So is Lebron not great because he couldn't win on his own and had to join up with multiple all-stars to even win one Finals game?

Lol yeah Parker made Duncan the best pf ever hahaha even though he was great before they teamed up, not saying he's a scrub but he's very lucky to have such high level teammates and coach, have you even seen Parker's stats in his first chip run they sucked bad and he choked big time in this latest finals even before the so called injury except for one game

Edit he was somewhat a scrub in the 2nd chip finals wow jordanesque deh

[The JKidd Kid]

That's because Paul and Williams don't make teams great, only good. Which is why a Parker-led team has sent them fishing multiple times. If you want Parker to go to some crap team so he can take more shots and put up more numbers, sorry. The Spurs enjoy winning and playing the role that helps them do so. Crazy that you can be the best player on your team and lead the team to prolonged success, best records in the league, the Finals, and even a championship and not get credit because your team was good. No one wins championships on their own. Look at Lebron. A Parker-led team swept him in the Finals. So is Lebron not great because he couldn't win on his own and had to join up with multiple all-stars to even win one Finals game?

Williams and Paul never got to play with a top 10 GOAT.

[Nash]

Rose
Westbrook
CP3
Parker
Deron
Curry
Rondo
Irving
Wall
Lillard

[The JKidd Kid]

1. Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Williams
4. Rondo
5. Rose
6. Curry
7. Parker
8. Irving
9. Holiday
10. Wall

[tpols]

:roll:

How about going 9-35 in the 2 most important games of your season?

or...

Putting up terrible numbers while your team loses to the 8th seed?

or...

Your numbers dropping in the playoffs every season of your career?

or...

Leading the worst choke in NBA history?

etc...
Annnnd if not for Ray Allens .00001 % chance miracle, Tony Parker would be revered as a clutch god.


Ignoring his clutch heroics in game 1, in game 6... Lebron goes no head band god mode for a 5+ minute streak to give miami its first good cushion late in the fourth quarter. Down a few, Parker bangs a three over Lebron to tie it.. and then hits a floater to secure the lead.

Lebrons confidence after those two failed defensive possessions drops to nothing and he begins to choke(seriously). A few highly unlikely events occur in the final minute that lead the game to OT where Heat win on that pure devastating momentum alone.

Funny how perception can change so quick because of a few improbable moments outside of anyones control. Tony led a clutch comeback and hit daggers in two of the closest hardest fought games of the series...



Tony Parker didnt choke.. he got outplayed and outgassed at the end. Hes a 6'0 french dude who looks like your average dude.. playing in a league of roided up 6'8 black behemoths.. having the most freak physical speciman in the world shading his every movement. He couldnt last with Lebron. He could give timely hoops here and there.. like he did, but he couldnt keep it going for as long as Lebron could. It wasnt mental, it was physical.


The spurs had NO ONE to create offense besides Tony.. Duncan was supplemental here and there at the end of a shot clock or off an offensive board.. manu couldnt even keep a live dribble going, and the rest of the team was spot up shooting. After dribbling in circles all game trying to create offense because no one else can and playing your ass off in the fourth to basically win the game, its gotta be exhausting to know your efforts were wasted and its back to starting from scratch against a guy who just has it waaaaay easier than you do from a talent/athletic perspective(talking about lebron who was given the assignment to wear him down).

[Young X]

^ I'd agree with you if this wasn't a pattern throughout his entire career. How do you explain his numbers dropping dramatically in the playoffs damn near every season? Why does he normally turn into Brandon Jennings in the playoffs? He's right there with Melo in terms of underperforming in the post season individually.

[Legends66NBA7]

This man knows his guards, 100% truth.

Lillard, Wall, and Nash aren't over healthy Rondo.

[Young X]

^ Rondo has never been better than Nash.

[Legends66NBA7]

^ Rondo has never been better than Nash.

Rondo's been better than Nash in 08-09, 10-11, and 11-12. That includes playoff play.

He would have been better last year too if he didn't tear his ACL. This coming season he has all the freedom to produce top individual numbers and even sneak some wins, though not a playoff spot since management might want them to tank.

[Young X]

Rondo's been better than Nash in 08-09, 10-11, and 11-12. That includes playoff play.

He would have been better last year too if he didn't tear his ACL. This coming season he has all the freedom to produce top individual numbers and even sneak some wins, though not a playoff spot since management might want them to tank.How is an inefficient PG that is a terrible scorer, doesn't draw fouls, turns the ball over at a high rate better than Nash? Whatever edge Rondo has defensively doesn't make up for the huge gap Nash has offensively. A PG's main job is to run his teams offense - Rondo is no where near as good as Nash at that aspect, his teams played better offensively without him, that would never happen with Nash.

[Haks]

1. Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Rose
4. Rondo
5. Parker
6. Curry
7. Kyrie
8. Williams
9. Holiday
10. Lillard

Any list that looks different is wrong

[tpols]

How is an inefficient PG that is a terrible scorer, doesn't draw fouls, turns the ball over at a high rate better than Nash? Whatever edge Rondo has defensively doesn't make up for the huge gap Nash has offensively. A PG's main job is to run his teams offense - Rondo is no where near as good as Nash at that aspect, his teams played better offensively without him, that would never happen with Nash.
Because besides shooting and passing rondo is better at everything else and can impact the game in a more well rounded manner?


Jason kidds efficiency numbers were ass in his prime yet many consider his peak on par with nash.. how can that be possible? Because rebounding defense intangibles competitiveness endurance all impact the game.

Rondos series in 12 against the heat alone puts him over nash for that year. And hes been the better player since 2010.

[The JKidd Kid]

1. Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Rose
4. Rondo
5. Parker
6. Curry
7. Kyrie
8. Holiday
9. Lillard
10. Wall

Any list that looks different is wrong

The fact that you dont have Williams shows you dont know what youre talking about.

[Haks]

The fact that you dont have Williams shows you dont know what youre talking about.
Shit gotta edit forgot about him thanks for reminding me

[Haks]

The fact that you dont have Williams shows you dont know what youre talking about.
Shit gotta edit forgot about him thanks for reminding me

[Young X]

Because besides shooting and passing rondo is better at everything else and can impact the game in a more well rounded manner?


Jason kidds efficiency numbers were ass in his prime yet many consider his peak on par with nash.. how can that be possible? Because rebounding defense intangibles competitiveness endurance all impact the game.

Rondos series in 12 against the heat alone puts him over nash for that year. And hes been the better player since 2010.So you really think PG defense where guards get picked off by screens on damn near every play is impactful enough play make up for the huge advantage Nash has in terms of running an offense?

[The JKidd Kid]

So you really think PG defense where guards get picked off by screens on damn near every play is impactful enough play make up for the huge advantage Nash has in terms of running an offense?

PG defense is incredibly important, especially in pick and roll. Guys like Nash, Curry and Parker are constantly being exploited on the defensive end and it seriously hurts the team. Watch that Spurs-Warriors series if you really think that PG defense doesnt matter, cause that was one of the most eye-opening things ive ever seen.

[tpols]

So you really think PG defense where guards get picked off by screens on damn near every play is impactful enough play make up for the huge advantage Nash has in terms of running an offense?
Rondos peskiness on help defense and rebounding is a huge asset. A pg who can lock someone up and average 9+boards for whole series at a time matters. Especially compared to an old version of a guy who literally needs to be hidden.

Look at rondos heart too.. dropping 40/20 on the heat when his old ass teammates could barely keep a dribble going against miamis defense..being a huge catalyst in 2010 cavs series.. rondo brings it on all fronts when it matters impact from every direction

[Graviton]

Considering how many athletic PGs are in the league nowadays, PG defense is definitely important. Watching Paul get owned by every halfway decent athletic PG while getting 1st team All D nodes every year is annoying though. He is like Kobe of PGs as far as reputation awards go.

[Haks]

Considering how many athletic PGs are in the league nowadays, PG defense is definitely important. Watching Paul get owned by every halfway decent athletic PG while getting 1st team All D nodes every year is annoying though. He is like Kobe of PGs as far as reputation awards go.
Quite embarassing how Paul got All D ahead of westbrook tbh

[Young X]

Considering how many athletic PGs are in the league nowadays, PG defense is definitely important. Watching Paul get owned by every halfway decent athletic PG while getting 1st team All D nodes every year is annoying though. He is like Kobe of PGs as far as reputation awards go.This is what you don't understand: NO PG can keep Rose or Westbrook in front of them. They use a million ball screens and are extremely explosive. It's damn near impossible to keep those guys in front of you without help. That doesn't mean Paul can't defend. Did Kyrie not drop 40 on Rondo the "best defensive PG"? Did D-Will not destroy Westbrook and OKC last season? Remember when Kyrie destroyed Westbrook too? Does that mean Westbrook can't defend?

[Pointguard]

1.Rose
2.Paul
3.Westbrook
4.Curry
5.Parker
6.Irving
7.Rondo
8.Williams
9.Wall
10.Lillard

The Proven
1. Rose has gotten better every year he played and the only one in the group to dominate all the others who were there. Only exception would be Westbrook who didn't guard him. Still Rose convincingly beat OKC that year himself. Is the quickest, strongest and best penetrator of the this bunch as well. Sometimes feels he has to do everything and the flow of the team suffers. Passing could be a little bit better.

2. CP3 does all point guard duties well. Quick, heady, takes care of the ball, had the top spot at this position manned for a while too. Defense is very good. Only weakness in his game is that when teams overplay for the lob he seemingly can't get off the most athletic center/forward combo in the league and a superstar in Blake whose game has fallen off since his arrival.

3. Westbrook is really a slashing guard. He's super explosive. Off the hook athlete and very important to OKC success. Might be even more athletic than Rose. Best slasher of the bunch. Doesn't do a lot of PG responsibilities well - taking care of the ball, control tempo, even out distribution or play heady ball as Harden kind of had those responsibilities when he was there it has delayed Westbrook's development.

4. Parker is so experienced and keeps a team winning like crazy. His team is always in it if he is playing well and they win better than anybody for years. Is very bright and doesn't make too many mistakes. Subtly takes over games. Not a great passer but I Pop plays structured ball. Defense sucks.

5. Rondo is playoff proven. Will likely have more triple doubles than probably all of these guys together in the playoffs. Has had the hardest job of taking care of stars and then taken over games when they had trouble getting off. His foul shooting and scoring can suffer at times.

HM Deron Williams

Up and Coming
6. Wall whenever this guy realizes he's the fastest dribbler ever he will be unstoppable. Only Rose is close to his ambidexterity. He has great passing instincts and quick recognition of cutters. Will be among the best defenders too. Can be the best of this group and the worse.

7. Irving, has Paul Pierce's weird penetrating ability (not predicated on speed but a delayed dribble that allows for late adjustments). Has more dribble tricks than even Paul. Can get to the rim on a set defense as good as any PG not named Rose. Clutch too.

8. Curry, with his lights out range, potentially the best shooter ever, and good passing seems unlikely he would be this low on the charts. I just wonder if in a long playoff run with him playing defense if his body can hold up. At 24 years old, he's Westbrook/Derrick Rose's age.

9. Lillard came in and hit the ground running. He's a traditional point with a superb pull up jumper. He jumps high, is quick and elevates his team play. Is clutch and smart. He's got range and great instincts. Is very steady.

10. Holliday mixes up everything pull-ups, hard drives and long range game. Plays hard and can keep the pressure up. Team goes as he plays.

[Young X]

Rondos peskiness on help defense and rebounding is a huge asset. A pg who can lock someone up and average 9+boards for whole series at a time matters. Especially compared to an old version of a guy who literally needs to be hidden.

Look at rondos heart too.. dropping 40/20 on the heat when his old ass teammates could barely keep a dribble going against miamis defense..being a huge catalyst in 2010 cavs series.. rondo brings it on all fronts when it matters impact from every directionI'm not saying that doesn't matter, it does, but it doesn't replace the most important thing for a PG - running an offense. The "heart" argument is all speculation and subjectivity, if you replaced Rondo with Nash in 2010 the Celtics offense would be 10X better. Rondo being able to defend Derek Fisher isn't better than Nash actually being an offensive threat and forcing players to actually guard him.

[Graviton]

This is what you don't understand: NO PG can keep Rose or Westbrook in front of them. They use a million ball screens and are extremely explosive. It's damn near impossible to keep those guys in front of you without help. That doesn't mean Paul can't defend. Did Kyrie not drop 40 on Rondo the "best defensive PG"? Did D-Will not destroy Westbrook and OKC last season? Remember when Kyrie destroyed Westbrook too? Does that mean Westbrook can't defend?
Except Paul gets blown by straight up by Lawson and Parker as well. I don't criticize PGs if screens are used but I hate the 1 on 1 blow bys the most especially when you are supposed to be All D 1st team guard. I have same issues with Kobe's lazy defense in that regard. There was a stretch with Paul when every PG was dumping on him, and I was thinking "No way he gets 1st team All D again" but he still did.

Westbrook is one of the best man to man defenders at least and doesn't play lazy. He does his job 1 on 1, Paul doesn't but still gets 1st Team All D somehow.

[Graviton]

I'm not saying that doesn't matter, it does, but it doesn't replace the most important thing for a PG - running an offense. The "heart" argument is all speculation and subjectivity, if you replaced Rondo with Nash in 2010 the Celtics offense would be 10X better. Rondo being able to defend Derek Fisher isn't better than Nash actually being an offensive threat and forcing players to actually guard him.
Current Nash is garbage though, that Lakers offense was terrible with him. All Nash does is run around trying to "set people up" but when you don't have any offensively skilled players your "setting up the offense" is useless. Especially with Nash who doesn't have the balls or attitude to score himself.

We saw how "running an offense" worked for Clippers in the 1st round. Paul abandoned his garbage no skill teammates and tried to carry himself but it was too hard. I will take Rondo's heart and triple double carry potential in the playoffs over Nash's useless offensive skill that won't matter if you don't have amazing players.

[Eric Cartman]

Up and Coming

8. Curry, with his lights out range, potentially the best shooter ever, and good passing seems unlikely he would be this low on the charts. I just wonder if in a long playoff run with him playing defense if his body can hold up. At 24 years old, he's Westbrook/Derrick Rose's age.

Curry is a borderline superstar. Don't be fooled by the fact that he didn't make the all star team.

[Young X]

Except Paul gets blown by straight up by Lawson and Parker as well. I don't criticize PGs if screens are used but I hate the 1 on 1 blow bys the most especially when you are supposed to be All D 1st team guard. I have same issues with Kobe's lazy defense in that regard. There was a stretch with Paul when every PG was dumping on him, and I was thinking "No way he gets 1st team All D again" but he still did.

Westbrook is one of the best man to man defenders at least and doesn't play lazy. He does his job 1 on 1, Paul doesn't but still gets 1st Team All D somehow.Are Lawson and Parker not the two quickest players in the league? :oldlol: So Paul can't stay in front of 2 of the quickest and most explosive players in league history means he can't defend? You still don't understand that no PG can shut those guys down without help. Why do you forget about Parker averaging 7.5 pts on 39% vs the Clippers in their 1st 2 meetings? Why do you forget about Paul playing excelent defense against D-Will and Holiday?

Your Westbrook part just proves my point. You say he's an excellent man defender but why didn't he stop D-Will from destroying OKC last season? Why couldn't he slow down Kyrie from sh!tting on him in the 4th quarter of their game? Why was Parker continuously sh!tting on him every play in game 2 of the WCF? Maybe it's not just Chris Paul, maybe PG defense isn't as impactful as you think?

[tpols]

I'm not saying that doesn't matter, it does, but it doesn't replace the most important thing for a PG - running an offense. The "heart" argument is all speculation and subjectivity, if you replaced Rondo with Nash in 2010 the Celtics offense would be 10X better. Rondo being able to defend Derek Fisher isn't better than Nash actually being an offensive threat and forcing players to actually guard him.
No... theyre offense wouldnt be 10x better with Nash because they never had much offensive talent to begin with and ran a slow plodding style to max their defense out.


If you have Nash pushing the pace to set people up for better shots.. guess what? The defense starts to suffer because it isnt set nearly as often and has to deal with more energy expending up and down play.

So even if the offense improves, its at the expense of the C's defense and rebounding.. the cornerstone to their success.

[Graviton]

Are Lawson and Parker not the two quickest players in the league? :oldlol: So Paul can't stay in fron of the quickest and most explosive players in league history means he can't defend? You still don't understand that no PG can shut those guys down without help. Why do you forget about Parker averaging 7.5 pts on 39% vs the Clippers in their 1st 2 meetings? Why do you forget about Paul playing excelent defense against D-Will and Holiday?

Your Westbrookpart just proves my point. You say he's an excellent man defender but why didn't he stop D-Will from destroying OKC last season. Why couldn't he slow down Kyrie from sh!tting on him in the 4th quarter of their game? Why was Parker continuously sh!tting on him every play in game 2 of the WCF? Maybe it's not just Chris Paul, maybe PG defense isn't as impactful as you think?
That's the point, if there are so many quick point guards that Paul can't even keep up with how is he 1st Team All D? People caught up with Kobe's retarded 1st All D picks, all I want is for them to be fair to PG position as well.

Westbrook still played good defense, in those cases is when screens are used a lot. No one straight up blows by Westbrook at least. Only time he plays bad defense is when he gets lost or gets picked off. His man to man defense has still been impactful to his team when he guarded Paul in their games, or Harden vs Houston. There was a stretch in a 3rd quarter when Westbrook completely shut down Harden and forced like 3 bricks and an airball. That's when you can't just rely on screens and double teams when Durant is on the side waiting. Or in the last minute when usually it's an ISO play like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwyfG4Ywe4c. Westbrook is great at staying in your face and forcing jumpers.

Man to man defense is impactful no matter the position, you have a job to stop your opponent from getting an easy lane and forcing your bigs to leave their man to double. If you are good at man to man your bigs get to actually defend the paint instead of covering for your ass. And nowadays PGs are the main penetrators so naturally being good at shutting down PGs helps your team a lot, especially if you don't have dominant big men like Perkins.

[Young X]

No... theyre offense wouldnt be 10x better with Nash because they never had much offensive talent to begin with and ran a slow plodding style to max their defense out.


If you have Nash pushing the pace to set people up for better shots.. guess what? The defense starts to suffer because it isnt set nearly as often and has to deal with more energy expending up and down play.

So even if the offense improves, its at the expense of the C's defense and rebounding.. the cornerstone to their success.The Nash/Rondo exchange is not going to make or break their defense - they still have Kevin Garnett who's the best, most impactful player on the Celtics and who's the best defender in the league. History has proven that you can be an elite defensive team with a bad PG defender, it's much harder to bulid an elite offensive team with an inefficient low volume PG as your teams best offensive player. Nash's scoring ability alone would make the Celtics better offensively, you think Kobe would be able to back off Nash by 5 feet like he did Rondo?

[tpols]

The Nash/Rondo exchange is not going to make or break their defense - they still have Kevin Garnett who's the best, most impactful player on the Celtics and who's the best defender in the league. History has proven that you can be an elite defensive team with a bad PG defender, it's much harder to bulid an elite offesnive team with an inefficient PG as your teams best player. Just look at the how terrible the Celtics offense got as Rondo's role got bigger, look at how the Celtics got better offensively without him. Kobe wouldn't be able to back off Nash by 5 feet like he did Rondo.
It would greatly affect things.. look at what makes Nash perform at his best. A faster paced offense offense offense system where the number one priority is to take the first good shot available and bury teams with a flurry of points.


The C's didnt operate like that. Theyre the ravens or steelers of the NBA.. long possessions, keep the other team on one half of the court at all times and be ready to get back on defense and set to maximize defensive efficiency and wear the other team down. Like a football team using a lot of running game to do the same things.. you want to abandon that and throw vertical all game with a better Q.. its gonna change how the whole system runs.. less physicality, and more unpredictability.


Besides that Rondo just gets after it defensively unlike Nash who would be a complete liability. Has Nash EVER been a key piece on a great defensive team? Nope.. and its for a reason. His style doesnt mesh..

[Young X]

Westbrook still played good defense, in those cases is when screens are used a lot. No one straight up blows by Westbrook at least. Only time he plays bad defense is when he gets lost or gets picked off. His man to man defense has still been impactful to his team when he guarded Paul in their games, or Harden vs Houston. There was a stretch in a 3rd quarter when Westbrook completely shut down Harden and forced like 3 bricks and an airball. That's when you can't just rely on screens and double teams when Durant is on the side waiting. Or in the last minute when usually it's an ISO play like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwyfG4Ywe4c. Westbrook is great at staying in your face and forcing jumpers.

Man to man defense is impactful no matter the position, you have a job to stop your opponent from getting an easy lane and forcing your bigs to leave their man to double. If you are good at man to man your bigs get to actually defend the paint instead of covering for your ass.Go back and look at Westbrook's game vs. LAC and look at how many ball screens he uses. Combined with his athleticism, who would be able to stay in front of him? I'm not saying their man defense isn't impactful, I'm saying it isn't more impactful than running an offense for a PG. Which it isn't. At the end of the day Westbrook's elite man defense (as you put it) didn't stop D-Will, Kyrie, or Parker from destroying OKC - which is my point. It makes no sense to hold Paul to a higher standard than other PG's when they've had the same trouble against speedy PG's as him.
And nowadays PGs are the main penetrators so naturally being good at shutting down PGs helps your team a lot, especially if you don't have dominant big men like Perkins.This is my point, when does this EVER happen? Rarely. Unless your name is Avery Bradly or Eric Bledsoe. Would you take those guys over a guy like Kyrie Irving or Steph Curry?

[Graviton]

Go back and look at Westbrook's game vs. LAC and look at how many ball screens he uses. Combined with his athleticism, who would be able to stay in front of him? I'm not saying their man defense isn't impactful, I'm saying it isn't more impactful than running an offense for a PG. Which it isn't. At the end of the day Westbrook's elite man defense (as you put it) didn't stop D-Will, Kyrie, or Parker from destroying OKC - which is my point. It makes no sens to hold Paul to a higher standard than other PG's when they've had the same trouble against speedy PG's as him. This is my point, when does this EVER happen? Rarely. Unless your name is Avery Bradly or Eric Bledsoe. Would you take those guys over a guy like Kyrie Irving or Steph Curry?
But Paul IS 1ST TEAM ALL DEFENSE, HE IS A HIGHER STANDARD. If he wasn't I wouldn't care but he is yet defensively he isn't even a Top 5 PG. Obviously PGs are still impactful defensively if they keep getting voted for All D teams.

Hence why Bradley/Bledsoe should be 1st Team but it's Paul based on reputation. That's my issue, not Paul's defense itself but him being on the team while playing his kind of defense. I still think Paul's passing lane play and aggressiveness/peskiness is a defensive positive itself but still 1st team shouldn't even have traditional PGs that can't defend SGs. Guys like Westbrook, Bradley, Bledsoe can still cover SGs effectively but they don't receive any recognition. I at least hope Jimmy Butler gets a nod this year but the All D teams as a whole are all ****ed up.

[Young X]

But Paul IS 1ST TEAM ALL DEFENSE, HE IS A HIGHER STANDARD. If he wasn't I wouldn't care but he is yet defensively he isn't even a Top 5 PG. Obviously PGs are still impactful defensively if they keep getting voted for All D teams.

Hence why Bradley/Bledsoe should be 1st Team but it's Paul based on reputation. That's my issue, not Paul's defense itself but him being on the team while playing his kind of defense. I still think Paul's passing lane play and aggressiveness/peskiness is a defensive positive itself but still 1st team shouldn't even have traditional PGs that can't defend SGs. Guys like Westbrook, Bradley, Bledsoe can still cover SGs effectively but they don't receive any recognition. I at least hope Jimmy Butler gets a nod this year but the All D teams as a whole are all ****ed up.But aren't you the same guy who says Paul is a bad defender because he can't defend Lawson, Parker, or Westbrook? :oldlol: Him not being able to do what 95% of every PG can't do means he can't defend? I agree with you that Paul didn't deserve 1st team defense, but that along with not being able to stay in front of extremely quick PG's doesn't mean he can't defend, it means he can't do what every other PG can't do.

I need you to explain why Westbrook wasn't able to stop Kyrie or D-Will from shitting on him and OKC especially in the 4th quarter. To refresh your memory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdpyN3ao1h4

[Graviton]

But aren't you the same guy who says Paul is a bad defender because he can't defend Lawson, Parker, or Westbrook? :oldlol: Him not being able to do what 95% of every PG can't do means he can't defend? I agree with you that Paul didn't deserve 1st team defense, but that along with not being able to stay in front of extremely quick PG's doesn't mean he can't defend, it means he can't do what every other PG can't do.

I need you to explain why Westbrook wasn't able to stop Kyrie or D-Will from shitting on him and OKC especially in the 4th quarter. To refresh your memory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdpyN3ao1h4
Like I said, Westbrook still played good defense and stayed in front of Kyrie/Deron, but they either still made the shots or got screens and made some ridiculous shit over 3 people. That Kyrie game especially I watched live and it was ridiculous. Westbrook still has highlight defensive plays along with defensive ownages, but as you said those days nothing the team or he can do to stop a certain player. But again Westbrook isn't 1st Team All D standard.

[Young X]

@tpols

My point was that PG defense wasn't impactful enough (not saying it's not important, it's very important) to replace a great offensive PG. You seem to disagree with that, so let me ask you a question:

Would you take Eric Bledsoe over Kyrie Irving?

[Graviton]

@tpols

My point was that PG defense wasn't impactful enough (not saying it's not important, it's very important) to replace a great offensive PG. You seem to disagree with that, so let me ask you a question:

Would you take Eric Bledsoe over Kyrie Irving?
Would you take Durant over Lebron?

[Young X]

Would you take Durant over Lebron?No, what's your point?

[tpols]

@tpols

My point was that PG defense wasn't impactful enough (not saying it's not important, it's very important) to replace a great offensive PG. You seem to disagree with that, so let me ask you a question:

Would you take Eric Bledsoe over Kyrie Irving?
If Eric Bledsoe showed the ability to put up 15+/10+/5+ while maintaining his elite defensive skill hed be >> irving. And hed be better than old nash too.. especially if were talking what theyd do on Boston.

[Graviton]

No, what's your point?
Defense makes the difference, not like playoff Rondo is bad offensively the way Nash is defensively.

Besides you compared a role player to a star, more accurate one would be Kyrie or Paul/Westbrook.

[Young X]

Defense makes the difference, not like playoff Rondo is bad offensively the way Nash is defensively.

Besides you compared a role player to a star, more accurate one would be Kyrie or Paul/Westbrook.The difference between Bron and Durant isn't just defense, Lebron is better offensively because of his much better playmaking and ball handling, that's the main reason why Lebron is better - he has more dimensions to his game offensively. If you take away playmaking the Bron/Durant debate becomes alot closer.

[Graviton]

The difference between Bron and Durant isn't just defense, Lebron is better offensively because of his much better playmaking and ball handling, that's the main reason why Lebron is better - he has more dimensions to his game offensively. If you take away playmaking the Bron/Durant debate becomes alot closer.
But you would still take Lebron even without the playmaking advantage because his post presence and driving ability is more reliable than Durant's jumpers. Higher percentage shots and impact on a defense still more valuable than long range lower percentage shots and no impact on a defense.

[Young X]

If Eric Bledsoe showed the ability to put up 15+/10+/5+ while maintaining his elite defensive skill hed be >> irving. And hed be better than old nash too.. especially if were talking what theyd do on Boston.That same PG with elite defensive skill wasn't able to stop Westbrook from sh!tting on him, couldn't stop Kyrie from dropping 40 on him, why take him over a PG who can run an offense efficiently? - that's all I'm saying. None of these PG's can stop each other, hence why I'm saying their defense shouldn't replace their offense.

[tpols]

That same PG with elite defensive skill wasn't able to stop Westbrook from sh!tting on him, couldn't stop Kyrie from dropping 40 on him, why take him over a PG who can run an offense efficiently? - that's all I'm saying. None of these PG's can stop each other, hence why I'm saying their defense shouldn't replace their offense.
Sure some offensive players are going to go off no matter what. Especially shooters who can bomb with hands in their face, but if Nash was on them it would be even worse..


But my main point wasnt even the man defense.. it was the STYLE. Nash runs his best offenses when the pace is high and he can get out and run. All of his suns teams ran at a high pace. The C's from 10 through 12 were at

22nd
22nd
21st

They purposely play at a slow deliberate pace to set up their defense. You mentioned Kevin Garnett being able to cover for nashs mistakes.. well that doesnt work if Kevin Garnett is all over the floor and not allowed to plant himself and orchestrate the defense.

[Young X]

^ Yes, but is Nash still not individually, a much better player offensively especially scoring wise? No matter what pace they play at, he's still going to help the Celtics offense alot more because of his much better, more efficient scoring, better shooting which not only provides much better spacing, but puts less pressure on his teammates offensively. All of those things are more important for a PG than defense IMO, the GOAT PG wasn't a good defender, would you take Payton over him? etc.

[tpols]

^ Yes, but is Nash still not individually, a much better player offensively especially scoring wise? No matter what pace they play at, he's still going to help the Celtics offense alot more because of his much better, more efficient scoring, better shooting which not only provides much better spacing, but puts less pressure on his teammates offensively. All of those things are more important for a PG than defense IMO, the GOAT PG wasn't a good defender, would you take Payton over him? etc.
The GOAT PG was a 6'9 freak who impacted the game outside of playmaking 10x more than Nash does(especially if were talking old nash). Waaaay better rebounding, versatility, scoring and yes even defense.

Youre still missing the point though.. Nash isnt going to be nearly as efficient and effective if he has to slowly walk the ball up every possession and grind it out. Thats what Rondo did. He was a better slasher/finisher and an equal passer to Nash.. not as good at manipulating defenses on the fly or running a two man game but the C's didnt really have anyone for him to run that with anyways. Old KG is too slow and not a good finisher(something you really need to be if youre running PnR w/ nash).



Nash has never ever had success in a slow system.. and if he sped everything up the defense would suffer tremendously.

[Young X]

The GOAT PG was a 6'9 freak who impacted the game outside of playmaking 10x more than Nash does(especially if were talking old nash). Waaaay better rebounding, versatility, scoring and yes even defense.Compared to Payton? Magic was a slightly better rebounder while being much worse defensively. What made Magic better was his offensive gap - which is my point. Offense beats defense when talking about PG's.
Youre still missing the point though.. Nash isnt going to be nearly as efficient and effective if he has to slowly walk the ball up every possession and grind it out. Thats what Rondo did. He was a better slasher/finisher and an equal passer to Nash.. not as good at manipulating defenses on the fly or running a two man game but the C's didnt really have anyone for him to run that with anyways. Old KG is too slow and not a good finisher(something you really need to be if youre running PnR w/ nash). Nash has never ever had success in a slow system.. and if he sped everything up the defense would suffer tremendously.You don't know that for sure tho, how do we know that Nash wouldn't be similarly effective on a slow paced team? He'd still be the best shooter in the league, he'd still be one of the best PNR PG's of all time. The '11 Suns still finished 9th with Gortat as his 2nd option. Do you really think the difference in pace is going to make up for the difference offensively?

[tpols]

Compared to Payton? Magic was a slightly better rebounder while being much worse defensively. What made Magic better was his offensive gap - which is my point. Offense beats defense when talking about PG's.You don't know that for sure tho, how do we know that Nash wouldn't be similarly effective on a slow paced team? He'd still be the best shooter in the league, he'd still be one of the best PNR PG's of all time. The '11 Suns still finished 9th with Gortat as his 2nd option. Do you really think the difference in pace is going to make up for the difference offensively?
Because hes never done it before.. in his long ass career.. he has never done the thing youre saying he could do. Not once.

[Young X]

Because hes never done it before.. in his long ass career.. he has never done the thing youre saying he could do. Not once.That's because he's never played on a slow paced team. You can't discredit a player based on speculation.

[tpols]

That's because he's never played on a slow paced team. You can't discredit a player based on speculation.
Teams cater to their stars strengths. Steve Nash has always been one to say fck it on defense and try to bury you with quick over and over offense. His style is up tempo.. always has been.


Im the one using past evidence and context here.. youre acting like a player is going to get his same numbers in a system he has zero experience playing in.:confusedshrug:

[BallsOut]

Top 10? Here's a top 20

1) Cp3
2) Derrick Rose (assuming he'll come back healthy)
3) Russell Westbrook (assumming he'll come back healthy)
4) Kyrie Irving
5) Steph Curry
6) Deron Williams
7) Tony Parker
8) John Wall
9) Goran Dragic
10) Rajon Rondo
11) Mike Conley
12) Jrue Holiday
13) Kyle Lowry
14) Damien Lillard
15) Steve Nash
16) Ty Lawson
17) Jarrett Jack
18) Jose Calderon
19) Raymond Felton
20) Ricky Rubio

[Young X]

@tpols

Alright, I see where you're coming from. Assuming everybody's healthy, where would you rank Rondo in terms of PG's?

[Rick James]

In terms of skill and IQ (which are important)

1. Steve Nash
2. Chris Paul
3. Jose Calderon
4. Ricky Rubio
5. Goran Dragic

[Graviton]

@tpols

Alright, I see where you're coming from. Assuming everybody's healthy, where would you rank Rondo in terms of PG's?
Regular season Rondo is not even Top 10, but playoff Rondo is definitely Top 5. Barely behind The Holy Trinity of Paul/Rose/Westbrook.

[Young X]

^What about you? What's your top 10? I know Westbrook and Rose are #1, and #2 on your list. :lol

[tpols]

Idk how rondo will come back from injury but if he didnt lose anything the only guys id have clearly ahead are paul westbrook and rose. Irving and curry could be better too

[Young X]

What about D-Will? I thought you were a Nets fan?

:biggums:

[Graviton]

^What about you? What's your top 10? I know Westbrook and Rose are #1, and #2 on your list. :lol
I told you before...

Paul/Rose
Westbrook

GAP

Curry
Deron
Choker
Kyrie
Wall
Conley
Lilard

Rose is as good as Paul but Westbrook isn't as experienced or mature to be #1. Though technically Westbrook is better his mental game is still behind. Russ has something Rose/Paul don't. The Goatbrook mode. When he turns into mini Lebron and is all over the court dunking hard on 7 footers, soaring for rebounds over big men, terrorizing PGs, getting 7 steals with 8 turnovers. He is the only guy besides James that is just everywhere and does everything well. Even hilarious interviews.

[Young X]

Nice list. Westbrook has his GOATbrook moments, he's also the only PG that can have a 24/9/8/6 on 8-22 with 7 turnovers statline. I remember a game vs the T-Wolves where he nearly had a quadruple double... ...with turnovers lol.

[plowking]

Westbrook
Rose
Parker
Paul
Williams

Chris Paul is seriously one of the most overrated players in the league.

[qrich]

Westbrook
Rose
Parker
Paul
Williams

Chris Paul is seriously one of the most overrated players in the league.

This guy :oldlol:

Let's ignore CP was #2 in Assists Per, behind only Rondo.

Or that he simply dominated Assists Per Turnover and also led steals per. Also was the top point in steals per turnover (#10 overall).

:facepalm

[tpols]

What about D-Will? I thought you were a Nets fan?

:biggums:
Forgot about him:oldlol: Yea hes right there below the first tier with rondo.

[kshutts1]

I'm not ranking the very injured players... Rose, Westbrook, Rondo... until I see them play again.

1. CP3
2. Parker
3. Williams
4. Wall
5. Kyrie
6. Curry
7. Lawson
8. Holiday
9. Lillard
10. Nash

I may have forgotten some players, aside from the already mentioned injured, but for the most part that's it. I have Nash so low because he played like trash last year... and I have Nash so high because I hope that it was an aberration, rather than the new normal.

[BoutPractice]

Here's the top 5 before the season starts (we don't know what will happen... for instance many predict that John Wall is going to explode):

CP3 - Most complete and efficient point guard in the league. Not a lot to say...
Parker - Most productive scoring point guard in the league. He's underrated because he plays for the Spurs and is French, but if he were playing for a lower level team and had a greenlight to score he could've been a 25+ ppg scorer.
Westbrook - Point guard with the highest potential due to his rare blend of athleticism, aggression and ambition. Needs to play smarter.
Curry - Best pure shooting point guard in the league, who still has untapped potential.
Rondo - Best pure passing point guard in the league, who also still has untapped potential.

Kyrie will eventually crack the top 5 too. Not ranking Rose until I see him play, but he's top 3 when healthy and had even more potential than Westbrook due to higher BBIQ. As for Williams, he just hasn't been living up to his name recently... he used to be the clear cut number 3 PG in the league though.

[chips93]

i feel like parker is one of the toughest guys in the league to rank.

his stats are only ok (in comparison with the elite pgs), but hes the pg of one of the best offenses in the league. and its pretty hard to quantify how much credit he deserves, for the spurs offense being so good.

[The JKidd Kid]

Here's the top 5 before the season starts (we don't know what will happen... for instance many predict that John Wall is going to explode):

CP3 - Most complete and efficient point guard in the league. Not a lot to say...
Parker - Most productive scoring point guard in the league. He's underrated because he plays for the Spurs and is French, but if he were playing for a lower level team and had a greenlight to score he could've been a 25+ ppg scorer.
Westbrook - Point guard with the highest potential due to his rare blend of athleticism, aggression and ambition. Needs to play smarter.
Curry - Best pure shooting point guard in the league, who still has untapped potential.
Rondo - Best pure passing point guard in the league, who also still has untapped potential.

Kyrie will eventually crack the top 5 too. Not ranking Rose until I see him play, but he's top 3 when healthy and had even more potential than Westbrook due to higher BBIQ. As for Williams, he just hasn't been living up to his name recently... he used to be the clear cut number 3 PG in the league though.

Williams has been living up to his name recently actually. At the beginning of the season he struggled but now he's back. I honestly don't understand why people still think that.

[Gwin631]

When I do my top rankings, I try to determine what are some of the things that that point guards should do, mainly pass, score, shoot defend (relatively) and versatility, whether they would work in many systems, so here I go.
For the 2013 season
Paul
Rose
Westbrook
Parker
Curry
Williams
Irving
Rondo
Wall
Holiday
With the also rans being
Rubio
Lawson
Connely

[mugiwara]

i feel like parker is one of the toughest guys in the league to rank.

his stats are only ok (in comparison with the elite pgs), but hes the pg of one of the best offenses in the league. and its pretty hard to quantify how much credit he deserves, for the spurs offense being so good.

I agree, he scores before passes and believe most of the success of that offense to go to Pop. Danny green would be finals mvp if parker could spot hi when he is open.

[Pointguard]

Deron for years was swapping places with Paul. But his team looked confused and weak in the playoffs last year so he paid the a price. But of course if they win it all this year he's at the top just that quick.

I will say this tho. CP3, Westbrook and DWill have crazy talent around them this year. They all have experienced, vet teams with scorers, shooters and super talented players. They can't have any more excuses.

[plowking]

This guy :oldlol:

Let's ignore CP was #2 in Assists Per, behind only Rondo.

Or that he simply dominated Assists Per Turnover and also led steals per. Also was the top point in steals per turnover (#10 overall).

:facepalm

Dude comes up shorts, and shrinks in every big moment outside of the regular season. Hes not far and away the better player over any other point guard inside the top 5 for me to want him on my team over Westbrook, Rose, Parker, etc.

Hes got a great team, and has in the past, and yet always comes up short, mainly on the back of his poor play, not his teammates.

Freaking Mike Conely played at a similar level to him in last seasons first round... How in the hell are you going to let that happen if you're the best player at your position in the league?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Chris Paul is seriously one of the most overrated players in the league.
:oldlol:

[Graviton]

Deron for years was swapping places with Paul. But his team looked confused and weak in the playoffs last year so he paid the a price. But of course if they win it all this year he's at the top just that quick.

I will say this tho. CP3, Westbrook and DWill have crazy talent around them this year. They all have experienced, vet teams with scorers, shooters and super talented players. They can't have any more excuses.
Westbrook doesn't have shit. Besides Durant the team is worse than past 2 seasons. No bench, no shooters, Perkins still alive.

[Young X]

Freaking Mike Conely played at a similar level to him in last seasons first round... How in the hell are you going to let that happen if you're the best player at your position in the league?Everything in this post is wrong, but this is bullsh!t. Did you not see Paul put up two 30 point games in the last 2 games of the series with only 1 turnover combined in both games? Did you not see Paul drain that game winner? He played great in the Memphis series - you don't lead the playoffs in PER if you don't show up in the playoffs. You don't raise your scoring averages significantly with your 2nd option injured if you always come up short individually. Dumb ass post.

[qrich]

Dude comes up shorts, and shrinks in every big moment outside of the regular season. Hes not far and away the better player over any other point guard inside the top 5 for me to want him on my team over Westbrook, Rose, Parker, etc.

Hes got a great team, and has in the past, and yet always comes up short, mainly on the back of his poor play, not his teammates.

Freaking Mike Conely played at a similar level to him in last seasons first round... How in the hell are you going to let that happen if you're the best player at your position in the league?

CP: 23/4/6 with 1.8 steals/1.5 giveaways on 43/33/87
Blake: 13/6/3 on 45/81
Craw: 11/2/2 on 39/27/100
Barnes: 12/5/1 on 55/44/81


What a great team.

[plowking]

Everything in this post is wrong, but this is bullsh!t. Did you not see Paul put up two 30 point games in the last 2 games of the series with only 1 turnover combined in both games? Did you not see Paul drain that game winner? He played great in the Memphis series - you don't lead the playoffs in PER if you don't show up in the playoffs. You don't raise your scoring averages significantly with your 2nd option injured if you always come up short individually. Dumb ass post.

2 games don't take away the fact that they played at an extremely similar level the majority of the series, and that was the consensus during the time of the series. Especially when you consider Conely had a 1-9 game in that series.

Paul outplayed Conely in games 1 and 5. Game 2, he got a game winner, sure. Conely played equally as good though. Game 3, both were terrible.
Game 4, Conely out played Paul. Game 6 was equalish.

[plowking]

CP: 23/4/6 with 1.8 steals/1.5 giveaways on 43/33/87
Blake: 13/6/3 on 45/81
Craw: 11/2/2 on 39/27/100
Barnes: 12/5/1 on 55/44/81


What a great team.

Isn't he the point guard? Isn't he supposed to set his teammates up and run the team?

EDIT: Look at last year too. Gets shut down to 13/8 on 37% shooting against the Spurs. Its off the back of his poor play most of the time.

Hes not the player he was in New Orleans.

[qrich]

Isn't he the point guard? Isn't he supposed to set his teammates up and run the team?

6.3 assists, 1.5 turnovers. That is over a 4 assist to turnover ratio.

But hey, I guess Chris is also supposed to hit the shots for all of his teammates as well.

[Fudge]

1. Russell Westbrook
2. Chris Paul
3. Derrick Rose
4. Steph Curry
5. Deron Williams
6. Tony Parker
7. Rajon Rondo
8. Kyrie Irving
9. John Wall
10. Damian Lillard

[Young X]

Paul outplayed Conely in games 1 and 5. Game 2, he got a game winner, sure. Conely played equally as good though. Game 3, both were terrible.
Game 4, Conely out played Paul. Game 6 was equalish.Paul didnt just outplay Conley in games 1 and 5, he vastly outplayed him. Both were terrible in game 3. Conley outplayed him in game 4 only. Paul, once again played much better than him in games 5 and 6.

In those two games he had:

35/6/4 on 11-24 shooting with 1 turnover
28/8/4 on 11-16 shooting with 0 turnovers

He only committed 9 turnovers in the whole series, led the playoffs in PER, raised his scoring averages when Griffin sprained his ankle against the 2nd best defense in the league. 4 excellent games, 1 decent game and 1 terrible game. How is that coming up short, when he played great?

You realize your logic can be applied to Paul George and Lebron in the MIA/IND series right? The only difference is Bron teamed up with teammates who stepped up while Paul was on an island by himself.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Not sure where this Chris Paul 'wilting in the postseason' myth came from. ISH is literally the first and ONLY place I've seen this BS perpetuated. :oldlol:

[plowking]

Paul didnt just outplay Conley in games 1 and 5, he vastly outplayed him. Both were terrible in game 3. Conley outplayed him in game 4 only. Paul, once again played much better than him in games 5 and 6.

In those two games he had:

35/6/4 on 11-24 shooting with 1 turnover
28/8/4 on 11-16 shooting with 0 turnovers

He only committed 9 turnovers in the whole series, led the playoffs in PER, raised his scoring averages when Griffin sprained his ankle against the 2nd best defense in the league. 4 excellent games, 1 decent game and 1 terrible game. How is that coming up short, when he played great?

You realize your logic can be applied to Paul George and Lebron in the MIA/IND series right? The only difference is Bron teamed up with teammates who stepped up while Paul was on an island by himself.

Paul was better in games 1 and 5. He was not better in game 6.

No, it can't be applied to Paul George and Lebron.
Lebron was better in every single game, with the exception of 1, and it was extremely close.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

CP: 23/4/6 with 1.8 steals/1.5 giveaways on 43/33/87
Blake: 13/6/3 on 45/81
Craw: 11/2/2 on 39/27/100
Barnes: 12/5/1 on 55/44/81


What a great team.

CP3 turned Jamal Crawford into an inefficient chucker ... :eek:

[plowking]

Not sure where this Chris Paul 'wilting in the postseason' myth came from. ISH is literally the first and ONLY place I've seen this BS perpetuated. :oldlol:

Since joining the Clippers, it is the case.

Hes not the same player as he was in New Orleans. In fact, hes fallen off considerably, and hence he really isn't the best PG in the league. He may still carry that reputation, but it will wear off soon enough.

[Young X]

Paul was better in games 1 and 5. He was not better in game 6.

No, it can't be applied to Paul George and Lebron.
Lebron was better in every single game, with the exception of 1, and it was extremely close.Conley scored less, assisted less, turned the ball over more...

Like I said, Paul vastly outplayed him in games 1 and 5 and slightly outplayed him in games 2 and 6. Your statement is inaccurate, Paul clearly outplayed Conley and he did step up when his team needed it, it just didn't matter since they were outmatched with Griffin injured. Durant had a worse series against the same team a round later, is he overrated too?

No matter how you slice it, Paul individually had a great series against Memphis. If anything it reinforces why he's the best PG - how do you play that efficiently against the 2nd best defense in the league? :pimp:

[plowking]

Conley scored less, assisted less, turned the ball over more...

Like I said, Paul vastly outplayed him in games 1 and 5 and slightly outplayed him in games 2 and 6. Your statement is inaccurate, Paul clearly outplayed Conley and he did step up when his team needed it, it just didn't matter since they were outmatched with Griffin injured. Durant had a worse series against the same team a round later, is he overrated too?

No matter how you slice it, Paul individually had a great series against Memphis. If anything it reinforces why he's the best PG - how do you play that efficiently against the 2nd best defense in the league? :pimp:

LOL at great series... What were you watching?

Paul did not outplay him in game 2, 3 or 6. He got outplayed once, and outplayed his direct opponent twice.

You must be a big fan if you are trying to justify that as a great series. Ask most impartial viewers, and they'd tell you otherwise.

[Young X]

LOL at great series... What were you watching?

Paul did not outplay him in game 2, 3 or 6. He got outplayed once, and outplayed his direct opponent twice.

You must be a big fan if you are trying to justify that as a great series. Ask most impartial viewers, and they'd tell you otherwise.He played great in game 1, game 2, game 5, and game 6. There's almost no way you can debate this if you watched the series. He played solid, but below average in game 4 and terrible in game 3. That's 4 great games, 1 solid game, and 1 trash game. That's a great series for CP3's caliber against the 2nd best defense in the league. Don't confuse team success with individual play.

[Pointguard]

Westbrook doesn't have shit. Besides Durant the team is worse than past 2 seasons. No bench, no shooters, Perkins still alive.

Durant will likely be the best shooter the game ever had. And likely the best player in the game for some time in the future. No big time PG has a talent like Durant. Ibaka was runner up for DPOY and is really improving. Sefalosha is stellar perimeter defender. Perkins is one of the best man on man center defenders in the league. Reggie Jackson and Nick Collison are good bench players. Thabeet and Lamb have potential. The key players have been together for a minute as well. Last year should have had the best record in the league outside of Miami. It was Westbrooks time to step up. He can redeem himself this year.

[joeyjoejoe]

[QUOTE=plowking]Since joining the Clippers, it is the case.

Hes not the same player as he was in New Orleans. In fact, hes fallen off considerably, and hence he really isn't the best PG in the league. He may still carry that reputation, but it will wear off soon enough

He's not the same as he was in n.o coz if he was there'd be no discussion on who the top pg is I mean 22 5 11 2.5 on very good efficiency lol, he's had some poor series like nugs and spurs in 12 but go watch mavs and spurs in 08 or the Lakers series omg he willed them to win two games after west went down and this is after Paul's injury and he also stepped it up in both memphis series, as for who outplayed who last time cp Conley its like this games 2,3,4 wash games 1,5,6 cp check your facts mrplow

[Sheik1287]

Durant will likely be the best shooter the game ever had. And likely the best player in the game for some time in the future. No big time PG has a talent like Durant. Ibaka was runner up for DPOY and is really improving. Sefalosha is stellar perimeter defender. Perkins is one of the best man on man center defenders in the league. Reggie Jackson and Nick Collison are good bench players. Thabeet and Lamb have potential. The key players have been together for a minute as well. Last year should have had the best record in the league outside of Miami. It was Westbrooks time to step up. He can redeem himself this year.

Yeah but all that is irrelevant when you have Kendrick Perkins slowing you down =/

[Sheik1287]

Tony Parker has won more playoff series than your top 5 "stars" COMBINED. And The bottom 3 have never even been to the playoffs. Try again. What a terrible, terrible mistake.
Derek fisher has won more playoff series than any of the top point guards mentioned. He also has more rings than all the top PG's everyone mentioned combined! According to your retarded logic, DFish should be top PG in the league since he is still active. Get your head out of your as.s and rank these PG's properly. Which one would you choose to start a franchise? Yeah... one thing for sure, not Tony Parker. :coleman:

[chips93]

cp3 has been pretty banged up in the playoffs

[SamuraiSWISH]

1a / 1b:

CP3 / D-Rose (when healthy)

2: Deron Williams (when healthy)
3: Westbrook
4: Rondo
5: Stephen Curry
6: Kyrie Irving
7: Damian Lillard
8: Tony Parker
9: John Wall
10: Mike Conley

[Sheik1287]

1a / 1b:

CP3 / D-Rose (when healthy)

2: Deron Williams (when healthy)
3: Westbrook
4: Rondo
5: Stephen Curry
6: Kyrie Irving
7: Damian Lillard
8: Tony Parker
9: John Wall
10: Mike Conley

Good list but I would take Westbrook over Williams any day of the week.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Good list but I would take Westbrook over Williams any day of the week.
Not me. Deron at his best is better. If Deron simply got in shape, and was consistently healthy now a days ... the comparison is easily in Deron's favor. Westbrook is a retard playing quarter back for a basketball team. In addition has personality disorder. He's not trust worthy. Him and his run feel speed down the court, jack up ugly pull transitional pull ups. That at times completely miss the entire rim.

[Sheik1287]

Not me. Deron at his best is better. If Deron simply got in shape, and was consistently healthy now a days ... the comparison is easily in Deron's favor. Westbrook is a retard playing quarter back for a basketball team. In addition has personality disorder. He's not trust worthy. Him and his run feel speed down the court, jack up ugly pull transitional pull ups. That at times completely miss the entire rim.
Well I guess it's a difference of opinion. Westbrook doesn't have to worry about being in shape. Just has to worry about making the right decisions and that simply comes with experience. Westbrook is still young and learning. Not sure about this personality disorder you mention...

[SamuraiSWISH]

Just has to worry about making the right decisions and that simply comes with experience.
Really? You actually believe that exclusively to be true?


Westbrook is still young and learning. Not sure about this personality disorder you mention...
Getting into fights with coaches and teammates, pouting DURING games? Flying off the handle with simple questions from reporters? Trying to physically harm players when his team is losing out of juvenile bitterness. The guy clearly has all kinds of mental problems.

[Sheik1287]

Really? You actually believe that exclusively to be true?


Getting into fights with coaches and teammates, pouting DURING games? Flying off the handle with simple questions from reporters? Trying to physically harm players when his team is losing out of juvenile bitterness. The guy clearly has all kinds of mental problems.
He may be a bit of a 'hot head', but that's his nature and it's better than someone with no passion like Deron Williams. Westbrook is old school and just wants to win. I bet Deron would have shook hands with Patrick Beverley.

[j3lademaster]

If this is a best point in the league right now thread, how is Rose- a guy who hasn't played in over a year- in the top 3 of so many lists? How Rose will return is purely speculation and I think putting someone who didn't play over guys like CP3, Parker and Westbrook who were great last season is disrespect at its finest. I'm a Bulls fan and love the guy, but he needs to come back and do something before I put him on any "best in the league right now (aka what have you done for me recently)" lists.

1) Westbrook
2) CP3
3) Parker
4) Curry
5) Rondo
6) Wall
7) Irving

Had a hard time deciding between Wall and Kyrie. They're close and I'm fine with guys who rank Kyrie higher, I just like the guy who plays D and can impact a game on a positive standpoint even when his shots not falling over guys who can once in a while go ham and singlehandedly win you a game in the 4th.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Westbrook is old school and just wants to win.
:oldlol:

[Sheik1287]

:oldlol:
Oh my bad, I meant that Deron Williams just wants to win. I mean if D-will had Joe Johnson and all-star Brook Lopez, he would tear up the Bulls in the playoffs! Especially if they didn't have D-rose! Man, Deron Williams is the point guard to beat :cheers:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Oh my bad, I meant that Deron Williams just wants to win. I mean if D-will had Joe Johnson and all-star Brook Lopez, he would tear up the Bulls in the playoffs! Especially if they didn't have D-rose! Man, Deron Williams is the point guard to beat :cheers:
Listen man, Westbrook is a fiery player. I admit this. How can you not concede he has terrible basketball intelligence, his same fiery disposition and overly passionate ways can also hold him and his team back? He makes tons of stupid decisions. It is not good to have your PG be that passionate and extreme. A leader is supposed to be level headed. He's a SG who can't shoot, playing PG. It's not a good mix. People overrate him because of his explosive athleticism. And he also clearly has mental issues. He is not old school. He's as new school as it gets, he just happens to be a punk.

[Sheik1287]

Listen man, Westbrook is a fiery player. I admit this. How can you not concede he has terrible basketball intelligence, his same fiery disposition and overly passionate ways can also hold him and his team back? He makes tons of stupid decisions. It is not good to have your PG be that passionate and extreme. A leader is supposed to be level headed. He's a SG who can't shoot, playing PG. It's not a good mix. People overrate him because of his explosive athleticism. And he also clearly has mental issues. He is not old school. He's as new school as it gets, he just happens to be a punk.
From what I have seen from this generation, is that everyone is nice as hell and everyone wants to be buddy buddy (ala James and Durant training). Westbrook, from what I have seen is not like that. If you don't want to call it old school, fine. But, I like the mentality that he is like you said, fiery. I do agree with you that he does make a lot of mistakes, but he can get better. Westbrook can shoot well but not every night. His athleticism is what puts him over certain point guards. Only thing new school about Westbrook are those stupid lenseless glasses he puts on during post-game interviews.

[imdaman99]

From what I have seen from this generation, is that everyone is nice as hell and everyone wants to be buddy buddy (ala James and Durant training). Westbrook, from what I have seen is not like that. If you don't want to call it old school, fine. But, I like the mentality that he is like you said, fiery. I do agree with you that he does make a lot of mistakes, but he can get better. Westbrook can shoot well but not every night. His athleticism is what puts him over certain point guards. Only thing new school about Westbrook are those stupid lenseless glasses he puts on during post-game interviews.
Couldn't have agreed any more :cheers:

Westbrook is the engine that makes the Thunder run. Durant is obviously their best player, but that doesn't make him their most important player. He has no ability of making players around him better. Ibaka and Martin disappeared when Westbrook went down. Durant became a Lebron-lite aka stat hog that turns good players into spot up shooter scrubs.

Westbrook has that hunger, he will not be outhustled for a loose ball. He will cut off his own arm to win a basketball game, he might just beat the shit outa his own teammate. I'm sorry Michael Jordan never did something like that. But oh wait, he did.

[The JKidd Kid]

Oh my bad, I meant that Deron Williams just wants to win. I mean if D-will had Joe Johnson and all-star Brook Lopez, he would tear up the Bulls in the playoffs! Especially if they didn't have D-rose! Man, Deron Williams is the point guard to beat :cheers:

Too bad Joe Johnson shot 30% the last two games a Lopez was getting dominated by a 1 footed Noah. That series really was Deron Williams vs. the entire Bulls team + his shitty coach and team mates.

[ninephive]

Derek fisher has won more playoff series than any of the top point guards mentioned. He also has more rings than all the top PG's everyone mentioned combined! According to your retarded logic, DFish should be top PG in the league since he is still active. Get your head out of your as.s and rank these PG's properly. Which one would you choose to start a franchise? Yeah... one thing for sure, not Tony Parker. :coleman:
Hey moron, Derrick Fisher has NEVER been the best player on his team. Parker has since 2007 AND has a Finals MVP, along with carrying them to the Finals this year. Don't be dumb, please.

[Young X]

Hey moron, Derrick Fisher has NEVER been the best player on his team. Parker has since 2007 AND has a Finals MVP, along with carrying them to the Finals this year. Don't be dumb, please.He didn't carry sh!t. How the fukk did he carry them when he wasn't even the best player on his team? You're confusing Parker with the other PG's that weren't lucky enough to play with Duncan (better than Parker).

[ninephive]

1a / 1b:

CP3 / D-Rose (when healthy)

2: Deron Williams (when healthy)
3: Westbrook
4: Rondo
5: Stephen Curry
6: Kyrie Irving
7: Damian Lillard
8: Tony Parker
9: John Wall
10: Mike Conley
How in the world is a guy who finishes 6th in MVP voting (only dropped from top 3 because of injuries at the end of the season) your 8th best Point Guard? Come on, don't be that dumb. Your pure blind hatred for the Spurs and Parker has never been more apparent.
http://i.imgur.com/k47kl4S.png

[ninephive]

He didn't carry sh!t. How the fukk did he carry them when he wasn't even the best player on his team? You're confusing Parker with the other PG's that weren't lucky enough to play with Duncan (better than Parker).
Yah, he finishes higher than Duncan in the MVP voting EVEN AFTER being injured at the end of the season and isn't the Spurs best player. Wow, you must watch a lot of Spurs basketball.

[Young X]

Yah, he finishes higher than Duncan in the MVP voting EVEN AFTER being injured at the end of the season and isn't the Spurs best player. Wow, you must watch a lot of Spurs basketball.He finished one spot ahead of Duncan lol. You don't carry a team if there's a player on that team playing just as well if not better than you.

Where was Parker when Duncan was destroying the Heat in game 6 and 7? Oh right, he was busy going 9-35 in the most important games of the season. He left Duncan alone on an island by himself and choked.

Some "best player". :rolleyes:

[ninephive]

He finished one spot ahead of Duncan lol. You don't carry a team if there's a player on that team playing just as well if not better than you.

Where was Parker when Duncan was destroying the Heat in game 6 and 7? Oh right, he was busy going 9-35 in the most important games of the season. He left Duncan alone on an island by himself and choked.

Some "best player". :rolleyes:
Do you honestly not remember his injury? Again, please tell me you watch basketball.

[ninephive]

He finished one spot ahead of Duncan lol. You don't carry a team if there's a player on that team playing just as well if not better than you.

Where was Parker when Duncan was destroying the Heat in game 6 and 7? Oh right, he was busy going 9-35 in the most important games of the season. He left Duncan alone on an island by himself and choked.

Some "best player". :rolleyes:
After being sidelined at the end of the season because of injuries and STILL finishes higher. And yet, he didn't have the better season. Please explain rationally. If injured Parker is slightly better than Duncan over the season, then what is healthy Parker?

[Young X]

His "injury" didn't stop him from destroying Norris Cole off the dribble in game 5. It didn't stop him from dropping 26 on 10-14 shooting in game 5. He just choked. All Duncan needed was Parker or Ginobilii to play at least decent but they couldn't even do that, they just choked.

[ninephive]

His "injury" didn't stop him from destroying Norris Cole off the dribble in game 5. It didn't stop him from dropping 26 on 10-14 shooting in game 5. He just choked. All Duncan needed was Parker or Ginobilii to play at least decent but they couldn't even do that, they just choked.
No, Ginobili choked. Parker's clutch 4 plays at the end of Game 6 was enough to put them over the top. His injury was getting progressively worse each game. I honesty don't think you remember this series because of the facts you continue to leave out.

[Young X]

No, Ginobili choked. Parker's clutch 4 plays at the end of Game 6 was enough to put them over the top.They both choked. Duncan (the real best player on SA) was the only one that stepped up. Parker choked as usual and got benched. How does the "best PG" get benched at the end of a close NBA Finals game lol.

[ninephive]

They both choked. Duncan (the real best player on SA) was the only one that stepped up. Parker choked as usual and got benched. How does the "best PG" get benched at the end of a close NBA Finals game lol.
Duncan got benched also. Those were both mistakes by Pop. He should have benched Ginobili, who was having one of the worst series and worst games of his career.