Best version of the Heatles ('11, '12, '13)?

[SCdac]

Which Heat team do you think was the strongest, with best chemistry, and best combo of offense/defense? ... (Note: not just the Big 3, but the whole team)

11 Heat (58-24 / .707) … stumbled out of the RS gate, fell apart against Dallas... Bibby, Big Z, Magloire, Dampier all retired soon after

Anthony
Bosh
Lebron
Wade
Chalmers

Bench: Mike Bibby, Ilgauskas, Haslem (injured most of season), Jones, Miller, Howard, Magloire

12 Heat (46-20 / .697) … Lebron won MVP, first Finals MVP, Heat added glue guy in Battier... beat Durant's Thunder in the Finals

Anthony
Bosh
Lebron
Wade
Chalmers

Bench: Shane Battier, Haslem, Jones, Miller, Cole

13 Heat (66-16 / .805) … won 27 straight RS games, won championship... added Birdman and sharpshooting Allen.

Bosh
Haslem
Lebron
Wade
Chalmers

Bench: Ray Allen, Battier, Birdman, Haslem, Cole, Anthony, Lewis

[LikeABosh]

2012' for the playoffs, 2012'-13' for regular season

[SCdac]

personally I think

1. 2013
2. 2012
3. 2011

that first team had the youngest "Big 3", but the most flawed team also (put together on the fly)

[no pun intended]

The one when they actually had a fourth member.

http://media.naplesnews.com/media/img/photos/2013/06/19/NBA_Finals_Spurs_Heat_Basketball.JPEG-08a02_t607.JPG

[Eric Cartman]

Give me the one with Joel Anthony and Mike Bibby on the starting lineup.

[inclinerator]

2011 was the best until the finals game 2 with a few minutes left

their swarming defense were on another level and hasnt been as good ever since

[Young X]

'13 Heat. Historically dominant when healthy. Even when they were down by double digits, in the back of my mind I knew they'd still win. Their comeback game against Cleveland is the perfect example. The previous teams performed better in the playoffs because of health, but they weren't as good as '13 collectively at full strength.

[magnax1]

2011 was the best until the finals game 2 with a few minutes left

their swarming defense were on another level and hasnt been as good ever since
Yeah, I sort of agree with this. They all had their periods of mediocrity and dominance, but when the 2011 Heat were at their best they were better than any other. Especially defensively. You have to remember they started out like 15-15 or something and ended up winning nearly 60 games anyway.

[tpols]

11' Heat.

Fully healthy prime Wade.. fully healthy prime Bron.. 19/9 Chris Bosh who dropped 23/8 in the ECF against Bulls frontline..

The only year they were the true big 3.




Now theyre Lebron + shooters and let wade and bosh take turns once in a blue moon.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

I'd either go with the '11 playoffs Heat before the Finals or the '13 Heat midway during the 27-game win streak.

[SCdac]

another question to consider, is 2013 Lebron better than '11 Lebron (Ie.more seasoned and battle tested)? ... and did it take him losing badly to be the player he is now?

also, the addition of Birdman has been sort of instrumental

http://gifsection.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/birdman-blocks-psycho-t.gif

[magnax1]

another question to consider, is 2013 Lebron better than '11 Lebron (Ie.more seasoned and battle tested)? ... and did it take him losing badly to be the player he is now?

also, the addition of Birdman has been sort of instrumental


He's better, but its not as big of a difference as some people will make it out to be. People act like he had an off season in 2011 or something. He was less ball dominant on offense because he had an equal on that end, and it affected his stats. However if you look closer the stat drop was mostly caused by an off couple weeks during the beginning of the season as he got used to playing without isoing/pick and rolling every single play like he did in cleveland. If you look at his stats in the last 50 games of the season he averaged 28-8-7 on 61 TS% which is really not all that different from the 27-8-7 on 64% he averaged this year. Also, thats the first year he really was truly elite on defense, and Im not sure hes been quite as good in 2012 or 13.
Hes more versatile offensively now though. Better jumper by a bit, and can play within a system a lot better.

[Gwin631]

Easily 2013,
LeBron Chalmers are much better now, much better pieces around LeBron, (Ray, Shane, Cole) Wade was more efficient, Bosh is more versatile, and even with the problems they had this postseason, if it was the previous two teams, they would lose the series.
Though 2014's team can be even better, replacing Anthony with often and Haslem with Beasley. 70-12!

[zoom17]

another question to consider, is 2013 Lebron better than '11 Lebron (Ie.more seasoned and battle tested)? ... and did it take him losing badly to be the player he is now?

also, the addition of Birdman has been sort of instrumental

http://gifsection.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/birdman-blocks-psycho-t.gif

Birdman-Birdman

[tpols]

The difference between birdman and Joel, and ray allen and James Jones isnt nearly as big as the difference between 19/5/5 50TS Wade and 25+/5+/5+ 57TS Wade, and 12/7 Bosh and 19/9 Bosh.

[Gwin631]

He's better, but its not as big of a difference as some people will make it out to be. People act like he had an off season in 2011 or something. He was less ball dominant on offense because he had an equal on that end, and it affected his stats. However if you look closer the stat drop was mostly caused by an off couple weeks during the beginning of the season as he got used to playing without isoing/pick and rolling every single play like he did in cleveland. If you look at his stats in the last 50 games of the season he averaged 28-8-7 on 61 TS% which is really not all that different from the 27-8-7 on 64% he averaged this year. Also, thats the first year he really was truly elite on defense, and Im not sure hes been quite as good in 2012 or 13.
Hes more versatile offensively now though. Better jumper by a bit, and can play within a system a lot better.
Defensively LeBron was outstanding, and the last paragraph you wrote is why LeBron is significantly better than previous seasons.

[Budadiiii]

Still can't get over that choke job by Bron in 2011. He will never make up for it.

That was a career defining series. I have nightmares about that series TBH. It was like watching the most terrifying horror flick, based on a true story. Can't even watch a Heat game without feeling nauseous. A clockwork orange indeed.

[SCdac]

Still can't get over that choke job by Bron in 2011. He will never make up for it.

That was a career defining series. I have nightmares about that series TBH. It was like watching the most terrifying horror flick, based on a true story. Can't even watch a Heat game without feeling nauseous. A clockwork orange indeed.

Yeah I know right, it's almost as if he caught another teammate banging his mom or something. He gave up, for one reason or another. Credit to the Mavs defense, but damn, that was a disappearing act as much as anything. One could argue it's made him better though.

[Gwin631]

The difference between birdman and Joel, and ray allen and James Jones isnt nearly as big as the difference between 19/5/5 50TS Wade and 25+/5+/5+ 57TS Wade, and 12/7 Bosh and 19/9 Bosh.
But in a better NBA now, 66 wins is greater than 58, and the # of role players make up for Wade not being in his prime and Bosh playing out of position.

[tpols]

But in a better NBA now, 66 wins is greater than 58, and the # of role players make up for Wade not being in his prime and Bosh playing out of position.
Someone else already posted it, but Heat started off .500 after 20 games in 2011 and once gelled pretty much owned the league.

Before the choke in game 2, it was a straight cake walk to the title.


Compare that to this year where they absolutely shouldve lost to the spurs and were tested more by 13 indy than they were by 11 bulls.. with the two being pretty much equal.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Still can't get over that choke job by Bron in 2011. He will never make up for it.

That was a career defining series. I have nightmares about that series TBH. It was like watching the most terrifying horror flick, based on a true story. Can't even watch a Heat game without feeling nauseous. A clockwork orange indeed.

Honestly, just thinking about that series sickens me. I know people were saying Lebron is pulling a 2011 in this year's Finals before game 6, but to me that wasn't the case at all. He was struggling offensively and indecisive at times but I could tell he was giving it his all, and he did a great job on the defensive end. In the 2011 Finals, it felt like he couldn't do anything right. Offensively, he couldn't get it going, and on the defensive end he got lit up by Terry.

Some guy in another thread commented that 2007 is a year that every Lebron fan wished didn't exist. For me it's 2011 easily.

[CarlosBoozer]

2011 defense was amazing and wade + bosh were excellent

2012 lebron was amazing in playoffs and wade + bosh were still good

2013 lebron and role players were amazing, wade + bosh very inconsistent

[DuMa]

2013 because 27 gm winning streak

[SCdac]

To be fair to Wade, he's older but was still good-great in 2013, despite injuries or at times lower production. He put up 20-24 ppg a couple months before the playoffs kicked off, which speaks to his lasting impact and talent.

If the 2013 Heat can manage to win a championship playing at even 85% of their potential than that means they're pretty damn potent to begin with. At 100% of their potential, they can go nearly 2 months without losing a single game. That's crazy.

Wade 2013:

Mar - 21 ppg / 6 apg / .54 FG%
Feb - 24 ppg / 6 apg / .53%
Jan - 21 ppg / 5 apg / .51 FG%

Early 2013 was the most deadly and unstoppable we've ever seen the Heat's entire team play together, imo. The point differential between Heat vs. Opponents during the second longest win streak ever was impressive (+11.9 points)

[secund2nun]

2011 was by far the worst. 2013 was the best. 2012 was 2nd best. They have improved each season despite Wade's continual decline. This has been overcome by Lebron's growth, a much better bench and supporting cast, and also more chemistry.

[Inactive]

Probably 2013.

Their offense was much smoother especially in the regular season. Everyone except maybe Wade fit their role, and Wade is still talented enough to contribute when he doesn't fit in. Defense not quite as good as 2011, but evidently still good enough.

They had more star power, faster legs, and more size in 2011, but they always looked out of sync on offense. The ball movement wasn't good, and Lebron/Wade had a hard time playing off each other. They often seemed indecisive under pressure in 2011. They mostly fixed that by the playoffs, but then Lebron faded in the finals.

In the 2012 playoffs they were basically the 2013 team with less depth. 2012 < 2013 regular season.

[sc19]

'11 Heat was probably the best had LeBron not choked.

[D-Wade316]

2011 was the best until the finals game 2 with a few minutes left

their swarming defense were on another level and hasnt been as good ever since

Give me the one with Joel Anthony and Mike Bibby on the starting lineup.

11' Heat.

Fully healthy prime Wade.. fully healthy prime Bron.. 19/9 Chris Bosh who dropped 23/8 in the ECF against Bulls frontline..

The only year they were the true big 3.




Now theyre Lebron + shooters and let wade and bosh take turns once in a blue moon.

'11 Heat was probably the best had LeBron not choked.
Yep.

[Gwin631]

Someone else already posted it, but Heat started off .500 after 20 games in 2011 and once gelled pretty much owned the league.

Before the choke in game 2, it was a straight cake walk to the title.


Compare that to this year where they absolutely shouldve lost to the spurs and were tested more by 13 indy than they were by 11 bulls.. with the two being pretty much equal.
The heat were 37-3 in there last 40 and were 8-1 in the first 2 rounds vs 8-3 against Phili and Boston.
Even during Wade's knee problems they were cruising until they met better the am that the 2011 team would have probably lost to,

[SCdac]

Some good analysis here on Lebron's development.


"When he returned after the lockout, he was a totally different player," Spoelstra says. "It was as if he downloaded a program with all of Olajuwon's and Ewing's post-up moves. I don't know if I've seen a player improve that much in a specific area in one offseason. His improvement in that area alone transformed our offense to a championship level in 2012."

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9109245/how-lebron-james-transformed-game-become-highly-efficient-scoring-machine

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/bd7cc748-834f-4253-96c9-8d6b9838aec5.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/7c1a46e5-42d0-44b8-a237-8f5abc354e24.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/c31699b7-c1f3-4b19-9cbd-d2a544dd6c69.jpg

[SamuraiSWISH]

LeBron is better in 2012 and 2013 than 2011. That doesn't mean the 2011 Heat team was worse. The big three was brilliant together, and they dominated better competition. They just choked in the Finals to capitalize on their season. More people were gunning for them for their arrogance and collusion the season after the summer of 2010 free agency.

[SCdac]

LeBron is better in 2012 and 2013 than 2011. That doesn't mean the 2011 Heat team was worse. The big three was brilliant together, and they dominated better competition. They just choked in the Finals to capitalize on their season. More people were gunning for them for their arrogance and collusion the season after the summer of 2010 free agency.

Having a better, more confident, Lebron makes a big difference. In 2011, Lebron allowed himself to get punked, for whatever reason... But after that, he seemed more determined and continued to diversify his game, in the post and from outside. That, combined with a more filled out team and better understanding of how to play with one another, and the Heat of the last two years has been near flawless... even when banged up, they win.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Having a better, more confident, Lebron makes a big difference.
The first 5 1/2 games of the 2013 Finals told us he's still not very confident. And only marginally better in reality. I don't get why people think he's light years better. He picks his spots better.

[Inactive]

The big three was brilliant together, and they dominated better competition I don't really agree with the "together" part. The Heat shot better from the field, and from three in 2013. They also assisted more. The only reason their offense was good in 2011 was because the big 3 were all able to create for themselves, and draw fouls easily.

I don't agree that their competition was better in 2011 either.

[SCdac]

The first 5 1/2 games of the 2013 Finals told us he's still not very confident. And only marginally better in reality. I don't get why people think he's light years better. He picks his spots better.

what about the rest of the series?

None the less, we're talking about the best player in the game. Even if the best player in the game gets .10% better that's a big positive for the Heat. And you've already conceded he got better. Dude dropped 29 PPG on the biggest rival at his position (Durant) and finished the Spurs series with a triple-double and 37 point game in route to 2 championships and Finals MVPs...

I think it's safe to say he's redeemed himself, and his individual improvement has helped the Heat improve collectively.

[Lebron23]

2012 Miami Heat

[Inactive]

:rolleyes:

Really?

2011 Sixers (41-41) 4 - 0
2011 Celtics (56-26) 4 - 2
2011 Bulls (62-20) 4 - 1
2011 Mavs (57-25) 2 - 4

2013 Bucks (38-44) 4 - 0
2013 Bulls (45-37) 4 - 2
2013 Pacers (49-32) 4 - 3
2013 Spurs (58-24) 4 - 3So the regular season record is the absolute measure? Okay, I accept your premise. 2013 66 > 2011 58.

I think we can ignore the first round opponents.

2011 Celtics > 2013 Bulls, but imo 2012 Pacers were a more difficult match up.

2011 Bulls were an easier match up than either the 2013 Pacers, or (without Bosh) the 2012 Celtics.

I'm not sure how to compare them, but imo 2013 Spurs > 2011 Mavs > 2012 Thunder.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I don't agree that their competition was better in 2011 either.
:rolleyes:

Really?

2011 Sixers (41-41) 4 - 1
2011 Celtics (56-26) 4 - 2
2011 Bulls (62-20) 4 - 1
2011 Mavs (57-25) 2 - 4

2013 Bucks (38-44) 4 - 0
2013 Bulls (45-37) 4 - 1
2013 Pacers (49-32) 4 - 3
2013 Spurs (58-24) 4 - 3

[Eric Cartman]

:rolleyes:

Really?

2011 Sixers (41-41) 4 - 1
2011 Celtics (56-26) 4 - 2
2011 Bulls (62-20) 4 - 1
2011 Mavs (57-25) 2 - 4

2013 Bucks (38-44) 4 - 0
2013 Bulls (45-37) 4 - 1
2013 Pacers (49-32) 4 - 3
2013 Spurs (58-24) 4 - 3

That Bulls team was amazing + they had their MVP. Also getting over the hump over a still dominant Celts team. It would've been one of the best runs had they shut down the door on the Mavs.

[D-Wade316]

That Bulls team was amazing + they had their MVP. Also getting over the hump over a still dominant Celts team. It would've been one of the best runs had they shut down the door on the Mavs.
Damn true. Nearly turned to one before Game 2 of the Finals.

[D-Wade316]

:rolleyes:

Really?

2011 Sixers (41-41) 4 - 1
2011 Celtics (56-26) 4 - 1
2011 Bulls (62-20) 4 - 1
2011 Mavs (57-25) 2 - 4

2013 Bucks (38-44) 4 - 0
2013 Bulls (45-37) 4 - 1
2013 Pacers (49-32) 4 - 3
2013 Spurs (58-24) 4 - 3
Fixed

[SCdac]

Of the three Finals opponents the Heat faced, don't think any one of them is particularly more dominant than the other. Different styles and stars but similar in strength. Losing to the Mavs, then beating Thunder and Spurs, teams arguably just as good, shows improvement as a team. The Mavs after winning a championship lost in the first round (to the team Miami later beat) then missed the playoffs entirely. They played excellently at the time, it wasn't a fluke, although don't think many would call them one of the greatest championship teams ever.

[Hoopz2332]

The 2011 version of the heat was top heavy and depended too much on the big 3. 2012 and 2013 were both better the only thing that held them back was Bosh getting injured in 2012 vs the Pacers and Wade being injured for the last stretch of that 27 game win streak and into the playoffs of 2013. The 27 game win sreak showed the true potential of the heat when healthy. As long as the big 3 are healthy, getting to and winning the finals will be a cakewalk.

[Nash]

2013 was the best, more width.

2011 was easily the worst. No width or bench production, Haslem was out injured for most of it and so was Miller. Another important factor is that they were a complete joke in offense. Wade, Lebron and Bosh had no idea how to play off the ball and they've already admitted that they weren't good enough that 2011 season.

[D-Wade316]

The 2011 version of the heat was top heavy and depended too much on the big 3. 2012 and 2013 were both better the only thing that held them back was Bosh getting injured in 2012 vs the Pacers and Wade being injured for the last stretch of that 27 game win streak and into the playoffs of 2013. The 27 game win sreak showed the true potential of the heat when healthy. As long as the big 3 are healthy, getting to and winning the finals will be a cakewalk.
But they never were in 2012 or 2013.

[D-Wade316]

2013 was the best, more width.

2011 was easily the worst. No width or bench production, Haslem was out injured for most of it and so was Miller. Another important factor is that they were a complete joke in offense. Wade, Lebron and Bosh had no idea how to play off the ball and they've already admitted that they weren't good enough that 2011 season.
No. They were good enough to win in 2011. Lebron just choked. You just won't admit it because you're a Lebron stan.

[Hoopz2332]

But they never were in 2012 or 2013.

never what? wade was healthy most of 2012-2013 season un til the ned of the 27 game streak. From that point on, he was hobbled.

[TheCorporation]

Give me the one with Joel Anthony and Mike Bibby on the starting lineup.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I know, right?

What kind of dumbshit thread is this.

2013 /thread

[Hoopz2332]

Look @ the bums/trash on that heat roster from 2011:oldlol: Dudes were getting started mins:biggums:

http://i.imgur.com/kwXdQqH.png

[D-Wade316]

never what? wade was healthy most of 2012-2013 season un til the ned of the 27 game streak. From that point on, he was hobbled.
No he wasn't. Wade was healthy for only 30% during the year, regular season and playoffs combined.

His stats before the streak(39 games):
20.6ppg 4.6rpg 4.6apg 2.5tov 56.8ts%

After the streak(RS 5 games):
17.8ppg 4.6rpg 6.2apg 3.6tov 55.5ts%

Playoffs(22 games):
15.9ppg 4.6reb 4.8apg 2.6tov 49.8ts%

[Hoopz2332]

No he wasn't. Wade was healthy for only 30% during the year, regular season and playoffs combined.

His stats before the streak(39 games):
20.6ppg 4.6rpg 4.6apg 2.5tov 56.8ts%

After the streak(RS 5 games):
17.8ppg 4.6rpg 6.2apg 3.6tov 55.5ts%

Playoffs(22 games):
15.9ppg 4.6reb 4.8apg 2.6tov 49.8ts%

Wade was close to 100% before the streak he was atleast 90% healthy. When I say he wasn't healthy, Im talking hobbled and struggling like he was towards the end of the streak and the playoffs. Wade is never going to be 100% healthy.

[TheCorporation]

One team has a new and improved LeBron with an amazing jumper, 3-point shot, and moves in the post. The aforementioned team also has Ray ****ing Allen, Rashard Lewis, and Chris Anderson. The other team has Carlos Arroyo, Mike Bibby, and Joel Anthony all getting big minutes...

:biggums:

[D-Wade316]

One team has a new and improved LeBron with an amazing jumper, 3-point shot, and moves in the post. The aforementioned team also has Ray ****ing Allen, Rashard Lewis, and Chris Anderson. The other team has Carlos Arroyo, Mike Bibby, and Joel Anthony all getting big minutes...

:biggums:
Still can't make up for Wade and Bosh's lower production. Ever wondered why the Heat have been take to 3 game 7's the last 2 seasons? Yeah for that reason. And that despite having better role players.

[TheNaturalWR]

'11 easily. 11' Wade was the best player in the league IMO. They had the two best players in the league and the defense was on another level. This wouldn't even be a debate if LeBron hadn't disappeared in the Finals.

[SCdac]

Look @ the bums/trash on that heat roster from 2011:oldlol: Dudes were getting started mins:biggums:

Yeah 64 combined starts from Arroyo and Dampier

Mike Bibby was horrible

Finals: 4 ppg / .35% / 1 apg
ECF: 4 ppg / .29 FG% / 2 apg
2rnd: 4 ppg / .29 FG% / 1 apg
1rnd: 3 ppg / .21 FG% / 1 apg

and that was their starting PG :facepalm

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0401/nba_g_bibby2_sy_576.jpg

[CanYouDigIt]

2011 Heat was built on the fly, that is why their team is full of scrubs. 2012, they picked up Battier, who was a key piece to the Heat's defense, plus they had a healthy Haslem and Mario Chalmers starting. In 2013, they just became unstoppable bringing in Ray Allen and Birdman, also Norris Cole showing spurts of being capable of becoming the starting PG.

This year, the Heat will become even better than they were before bringing in Beasley and Oden. Pat Riley is really a genius at what he does. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the Heat next year if the Big 3 splits or stays together.

[Frozen1]

In 2011 it was the display of three dominant players beating the opposition. Miami had no bench and they steamrolled through the finals, beating boston and the MVP

[Bigsmoke]

2012

Once Bosh came nobody had a chance.

[Nash]

No. They were good enough to win in 2011. Lebron just choked. You just won't admit it because you're a Lebron stan.
What does that have to do with comparisons between 11, 12 and 13?

[SamuraiSWISH]

No. They were good enough to win in 2011. Lebron just choked. You just won't admit it because you're a Lebron stan.
Agreed. Honest assessment from a REAL Heat fan.

[SCdac]

Obviously the Heat weren't good enough to win in 2011, because they lost 4-2 in the Finals and couldn't even contain Jason "top 200 all-time" Terry.

Saying, "but if Lebron had not choked they would have won" is like saying, "they were great except for when they weren't great, and they weren't great at the end".

That initial team needed to get beat IMO, particularly Lebron. They were riding the Big 3 too hard at the beginning, and a couple seasons later they were much more gelled.

[SCdac]

from the article I posted few pages earlier

[quote]According to Spoelstra, "It took the ultimate failure in the Finals to view LeBron and our offense with a different lens. He was the most versatile player in the league. We had to figure out a way to use him in the most versatile of ways

[Derka]

This past season's team.

Joel Anthony spending his time on the bench is a good thing. Chris Andersen was a good pickup.

Also, Ray Allen saved their postseason in the most epic fashion I've seen in a long time.

[eklip]

2011 > 2012 > 2013

2012 Heat needed 7 games to beat the Celtics and the 2013 Heat needed 7 games to beat the Spurs and the Pacers. You could argue that these teams were worse than the 2011 Mavs and 2011 Bulls.

Lebron didn't suddenly become a much better player in 2012, he just had a bad series in the 2011 finals.

[All Net]

2013 was a more complete team.

[Indian guy]

A healthy 2013 team is clearly the best of the 3. LeBron's significantly better than his '11 version, Bosh's about the same and Wade, when healthy, is still about 85% the player he was in 2011. More importantly, their supporting cast in '13 is just so much better than what they had in 2011, where the likes of Joel Anthony, Bibby, Dampier, Ilgauskas and James Jones were part of the rotation. Mike Miller was their ONLY decent player outside the Big 3, and he was injured. So was Haslem. Compare that to Ray Allen, Birdman, Battier and an-improved Chalmers playing the majority of the minutes in 2013. There's no comparison.

And to those who keep talking about the '12 and '13 team being taken to 7 games 3 times, hello, injuries?? Bosh nearly missed the entire series against Boston in 2012. And knee issues turned Wade into a shell in the '13 playoffs.

[SCdac]

This past season's team.

Joel Anthony spending his time on the bench is a good thing. Chris Andersen was a good pickup.

Also, Ray Allen saved their postseason in the most epic fashion I've seen in a long time.

Yeah, adding him was so worthwhile. From his on-court abilities to his veteran influence on younger players...

and the Heat players know it.

Lebron on Allen's clutch Game 6:


"Ray can be 0-for-99 in a game, and if he gets an open look late in the game, it's going down," Heat forward LeBron James said. "That's just the confidence he has in himself. It's the preparation that he prepares for every game. It's the confidence that we have in him. We've seen it before. We're happy to have him on our side. This is the reason why we wanted him, games like this."

[hawkfan]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Inu-Qer6DkM/Te5mjd3x5KI/AAAAAAAABSE/ZrUjSCUnrIY/s400/theHeatles.jpg

[zoom17]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Inu-Qer6DkM/Te5mjd3x5KI/AAAAAAAABSE/ZrUjSCUnrIY/s400/theHeatles.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9clrsQrIU1qf84gjo1_500.jpg

[hawkfan]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9clrsQrIU1qf84gjo1_500.jpg

LeBron in back, while Wade plays the lead instrument?

[Eric Cartman]

LeBron in back, while Wade plays the lead instrument?

Symbolic of the 2011 Finals that's for sure.

[SCdac]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0411/pg2_sgt_pepper_heat.jpg

[DMAVS41]

A healthy 2013 team is clearly the best of the 3. LeBron's significantly better than his '11 version, Bosh's about the same and Wade, when healthy, is still about 85% the player he was in 2011. More importantly, their supporting cast in '13 is just so much better than what they had in 2011, where the likes of Joel Anthony, Bibby, Dampier, Ilgauskas and James Jones were part of the rotation. Mike Miller was their ONLY decent player outside the Big 3, and he was injured. So was Haslem. Compare that to Ray Allen, Birdman, Battier and an-improved Chalmers playing the majority of the minutes in 2013. There's no comparison.

And to those who keep talking about the '12 and '13 team being taken to 7 games 3 times, hello, injuries?? Bosh nearly missed the entire series against Boston in 2012. And knee issues turned Wade into a shell in the '13 playoffs.

That's the point though...those 12 and 13 teams in the playoffs were what they were...injuries factor into strength.

It depends on how you are defining this.

The 13 team was clearly the best regular season team, but obviously clearly the worst playoff team as well. They had Wade/Bosh in horrible slumps and struggled to beat an average Pacers team and then should have lost to a middling Spurs team that was clearly worse than the 11 Mavs and 12 Thunder by the time the finals rolled around.

So if it's just about winning. I'd probably go with the 11 or 12 Heat..with the 13 Heat a distant 3rd.

If regular seasons factor in a lot...not sure.

I'd probably lean towards the 12 Heat as the team that gives you the best chance to win. Lebron played the best he's ever played throughout the playoff run...and while they had some scares against the Celtics and Pacers...Lebron pulled them through even with injuries.

But next has to the 11 Heat. They didn't have injuries and they blew through the 11 Celtics and 11 Bulls. That wasn't some fluke. Both of those teams were very very good. Heat went 8-2 combined. The 11 Heat looked absolutely unstoppable heading into the finals. In fact, they looked unstoppable through game 1 and well into game 2 before the Mavs had that crazy comeback behind Dirk and Terry...up to that point, people were literally saying the title shouldn't count because the Heat were so good it's unfair for the rest of the league. Keep in mind these finals were being played against a team that just went 8-1 against the Lakers and Thunder and had Dirk going nuts. With Wade, Bosh, and Lebron all healthy and playing good to great overall in the playoffs so far.

Compare that to 13. When the Heat weren't huge favorites and Wade was hurt and Bosh was in a slump...and had just struggle to beat a Pacers team that just isn't great. It's completely different.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Every poster with a known agenda against LeBron said 2011. :oldlol:

[Nash]

Every poster with a known agenda against LeBron said 2011. :oldlol:
Unbelievable, and they really try to sell it. As if basketball is played with 3 players and the rest of the starters + bench doesn't really matter. Just look at all the wonders a team with Gasol, Kobe, Nash and Howard created.

[DMAVS41]

Unbelievable, and they really try to sell it. As if basketball is played with 3 players and the rest of the starters + bench doesn't really matter. Just look at all the wonders a team with Gasol, Kobe, Nash and Howard created.

Yet somehow that team was the most impressive in the playoffs up until game 2 3rd qtr of the 11 finals.

This shit astonishes me. It's like the Celtics and Bulls series never happened. You know the two very good teams they trounced 4-1 each time?

The Heat were huge favorites over the Mavs in 11. And it wasn't because people didn't believe in the Mavs. After the Lakers sweep...the Mavs were actually favored over the Thunder. So it wasn't a competition thing...it was a;

"Heat are so ****ing good they can't lose thing"

They didn't have that in 12...and certainly didn't have that in 13.

And that 11 Mavs team in the playoffs was just easily better than the 13 Spurs in the playoffs. With Dirk being easily the best player between the two teams...

The only way you get around this is if you give the Mavs no credit for winning. But even then that doesn't make sense considering Lebron struggled very much in the same way up until the 4th qtr of game 6...and then choked down the stretch of that game and should have lost if manu/parker don't choke and they make 1 ****ing ft or get a rebound. The 11 Mavs weren't blowing big leads like that...Terry/Dirk aren't letting that happen. It was the competition that was weaker...

[Legends66NBA7]

I think it's between 2011 and 2012.

2013 had the more impressive regular season of the 2 teams, but the title run is what should be remembered. I think 2011 just blew it's chances and James picked the wrong time to get shook, plus faced the better playoff talent. 2012 was very dominant, could have finished off the Celtics earlier too with Bosh healthy and IMO had the best version of James.

To me, this case is similar to the 04-05 Heat vs the 05-06 Heat to some extent.

[Bandito]

Unbelievable, and they really try to sell it. As if basketball is played with 3 players and the rest of the starters + bench doesn't really matter. Just look at all the wonders a team with Gasol, Kobe, Nash and Howard created.
Bro that year they murdered the competition until they played against the Mavs. Lebron, Wade and Bosh were all healthy that year too.

The only reason they lost that year is because of Lebron choking and Dirk and Terry going crazy.

The Big 3 (the only year they could be called that) were steamrolling the competition solely by themselves.

[DMAVS41]

Bro that year they murdered the competition until they played against the Mavs. Lebron, Wade and Bosh were all healthy that year too.

The only reason they lost that year is because of Lebron choking and Dirk and Terry going crazy.

The Big 3 (the only year they could be called that) were steamrolling the competition solely by themselves.

And, to add to that, people need to stop acting like Lebron was a completely different player in the finals in 11 vs 13. He wasn't...Lebron really struggled all the way up until the 4th qtr of game 6. His first 3 games were 18, 17, and then 15 ppg.

His averages over the first 3 games was like 16 on 44% TS...that is awful. He then had a great game 4...and a weak 25 points on 48% TS in game 5.

Then was awful entering the 4th qtr of game 6...something like 3-12 at that point iirc.

Lebron lucked out that the Spurs choked and just weren't that good...he wasn't some noticeably better player series to series...it was the fact his competition gave him new life rather than stomping on his throat the way the Mavs did in the 2nd half of game 6 in 11.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

And, to add to that, people need to stop acting like Lebron was a completely different player in the finals in 11 vs 13. He wasn't...Lebron really struggled all the way up until the 4th qtr of game 6. His first 3 games were 18, 17, and then 15 ppg.

His averages over the first 3 games was like 16 on 44% TS...that is awful. He then had a great game 4...and a weak 25 points on 48% TS in game 5.

Then was awful entering the 4th qtr of game 6...something like 3-12 at that point iirc.

Lebron lucked out that the Spurs choked and just weren't that good...he wasn't some noticeably better player series to series...it was the fact his competition gave him new life rather than stomping on his throat the way the Mavs did in the 2nd half of game 6 in 11.

That's just not true. Lebron struggled offensively in games 2, 3, and 5 but was still contributing in many other ways, particularly defensively. Unlike in 2011, where he was getting lit up by Terry and was just had a net negative impact out there.

[DMAVS41]

That's just not true. Lebron struggled offensively in games 2, 3, and 5 but was still contributing in many other ways, particularly defensively. Unlike in 2011, where he was getting lit up by Terry and was just had a net negative impact out there.

I said he wasn't a completely different player. I didn't say he was the exact same.

The point is that in very much the same way through 5.75 games of the finals...Lebron had reverted back to a similar form to 11 Lebron.

And if the Spurs were as good as the 11 Mavs...they win that series...quite easily I might add.

[Bandito]

That's just not true. Lebron struggled offensively in games 2, 3, and 5 but was still contributing in many other ways, particularly defensively. Unlike in 2011, where he was getting lit up by Terry and was just had a net negative impact out there.
So he didn't contribute defensively in 2011? What was he doing then?:roll: :roll:

Lebron did his thing on defense in 2011 people just watch what they want to watch. He isn't better on defense than he was in 2011, he is pretty much about the same and that fallacy ESPN has been building up is just:facepalm

And like DMavs41 said he was struggling on offense. Not because he quit or choked though. The Spurs were just playing great defense against Lebron by making him shoot from the outside and it worked for 5 games and 3 quarters.

[hawkfan]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YGIxxbZu8dA/TS4JEWD0dXI/AAAAAAAAABQ/UO-iU-9DnFU/s320/theHeatles.jpg

[Bandito]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YGIxxbZu8dA/TS4JEWD0dXI/AAAAAAAAABQ/UO-iU-9DnFU/s320/theHeatles.jpg
is that Arroyo? What was he doing there? He never won a ring with the Heat.:roll:

[SCdac]

A healthy 2013 team is clearly the best of the 3.

Tend to agree. That team at it's best is better than any other Heat team at its best, which indicates that the make up of their team, team strength, chemistry, and individual development are the best of the three. Their ceiling was the highest, simply put. Despite injuries or other uncontrollable factors, they won playing at like 80% of their potential (pretty impressive). The resiliency the Heat showed was excellent. Held the best passing team in the NBA to 13 assists. Held the second-best shooting team in the league to 37.8-percent shooting.

even Chalmers was having big moments (in the second half of Game 7)

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/928/000/MarioChalmersBuzzerBeater_original.gif

[hawkfan]

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5287/5338015459_9456798d50_z.jpg

[Nash]

Yet somehow that team was the most impressive in the playoffs up until game 2 3rd qtr of the 11 finals.

This shit astonishes me. It's like the Celtics and Bulls series never happened. You know the two very good teams they trounced 4-1 each time?

The Heat were huge favorites over the Mavs in 11. And it wasn't because people didn't believe in the Mavs. After the Lakers sweep...the Mavs were actually favored over the Thunder. So it wasn't a competition thing...it was a;

"Heat are so ****ing good they can't lose thing"

They didn't have that in 12...and certainly didn't have that in 13.

And that 11 Mavs team in the playoffs was just easily better than the 13 Spurs in the playoffs. With Dirk being easily the best player between the two teams...

The only way you get around this is if you give the Mavs no credit for winning. But even then that doesn't make sense considering Lebron struggled very much in the same way up until the 4th qtr of game 6...and then choked down the stretch of that game and should have lost if manu/parker don't choke and they make 1 ****ing ft or get a rebound. The 11 Mavs weren't blowing big leads like that...Terry/Dirk aren't letting that happen. It was the competition that was weaker...
The only thing the 11 team has over the rest is a healthier Wade. That is it.

And what does it matter how the Bulls and Celtics series went in 11? In 12 and 13 they actually won the whole thing with bunch more help from the bench which was non existent at that point. Also the defence is much better and offense is on another level. Lebron, Wade and Spoelstra have all said that they didn't figure the whole offense out in 11 because they had such issues playing off the ball and figuring out their roles.

Wade not playing on the same level isn't enough to make Miami 11 better than 12 and 13. Especially since Lebron went into super mode in 12 and 13 and with a lot of help from Battier, Allen and the rest of the crew that were actually making Miami a much better team.

And none of this takes anything away from your Dallas. They are still the best team Miami has faced in the finals.

[hawkfan]

Best version of the Heatles? '14, with a healthy Greg Oden manning the middle and a re-focused Michael Beasley playing up to his potential (this year's Andray Blatche), playing alongside LBJ-Wade-Bosh.

[hawkfan]

Tend to agree. That team at it's best is better than any other Heat team at its best, which indicates that the make up of their team, team strength, chemistry, and individual development are the best of the three. Their ceiling was the highest, simply put. Despite injuries or other uncontrollable factors, they won playing at like 80% of their potential (pretty impressive). The resiliency the Heat showed was excellent. Held the best passing team in the NBA to 13 assists. Held the second-best shooting team in the league to 37.8-percent shooting.

even Chalmers was having big moments (in the second half of Game 7)

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/928/000/MarioChalmersBuzzerBeater_original.gif

If Chalmers had played more than Bibby in the Finals in 11, this team would be going for its fourth title in a row.

[DMAVS41]

The only thing the 11 team has over the rest is a healthier Wade. That is it.

And what does it matter how the Bulls and Celtics series went in 11? In 12 and 13 they actually won the whole thing with bunch more help from the bench which was non existent at that point. Also the defence is much better and offense is on another level. Lebron, Wade and Spoelstra have all said that they didn't figure the whole offense out in 11 because they had such issues playing off the ball and figuring out their roles.

Wade not playing on the same level isn't enough to make Miami 11 better than 12 and 13. Especially since Lebron went into super mode in 12 and 13 and with a lot of help from Battier, Allen and the rest of the crew that were actually making Miami a much better team.

And none of this takes anything away from your Dallas. They are still the best team Miami has faced in the finals.


The competition level does matter. The Celtics and Bulls in 11 are simply better than the competition they faced in 13 getting to the finals.

One team (11) looked unbeatable against significantly better competition. The other team (13) looked poor and struggled against weaker competition.

Then, in the finals, playing a team you readily admit is not as good as the 11 Mavs...Lebron struggled yet again as I showed...with his first 3 games combining for 16 points on 45% TS...which is just awful. The difference this time...is that they didn't have another superstar tearing it up like Wade did in 11.

I couldn't care less about the Mavs credit...and I already said i'd take the 12 Heat first.

But the 11 Heat were clearly playing better heading into the finals than the 13 Heat were. I honestly don't know how anyone disputes that.

[Legends66NBA7]

The only thing the 11 team has over the rest is a healthier Wade. That is it.

And Bosh being healthier, facing better competition overall, and are actually the most well-rounded of the 3 teams. The 11 Heat are the only team from the 3 to be a Top 5 offensive and defensive team from their respective seasons.


And what does it matter how the Bulls and Celtics series went in 11?

It matters because those teams were better than their respective opponents than what the other Heat teams faced.


Also the defence is much better and offense is on another level.

Nice hyperbole with no substance behind it.

Offense

2011: 111.7 (3rd of 30) League Average 107.3
2012: 106.6 (8th of 30) League Average 104.6
2013: 112.3 (2nd of 30) League Average 105.9

Defense

2011: 103.5 (5th of 30) League Average 107.3
2012: 100.2 (4th of 30) League Average 104.6
2013: 103.7 (9th of 30) League Average 105.9


All 3 teams play around virtually 91 possessions too.

So while the offense is slightly better, it's certainly not on another level. And your wrong about their defense being much better as well.

[Nash]

The competition level does matter. The Celtics and Bulls in 11 are simply better than the competition they faced in 13 getting to the finals.

One team (11) looked unbeatable against significantly better competition. The other team (13) looked poor and struggled against weaker competition.

Then, in the finals, playing a team you readily admit is not as good as the 11 Mavs...Lebron struggled yet again as I showed...with his first 3 games combining for 16 points on 45% TS...which is just awful. The difference this time...is that they didn't have another superstar tearing it up like Wade did in 11.

I couldn't care less about the Mavs credit...and I already said i'd take the 12 Heat first.

But the 11 Heat were clearly playing better heading into the finals than the 13 Heat were. I honestly don't know how anyone disputes that.
I could easily argue that Pacers are a much more difficult opponent for Miami than 2011 Celtics. Hibbert and West are the kinda physical players that Miami have no answer to. Also, Boston 11 were old and Rondo got injured a game or 2 into the series. Boston were like the big 3 only all of them being 34-35 instead of their prime.

The whole damn year we hear nothing but Miami being a historically stacked team, stacked this and stacked that and now people are trying to tell me that Miami 11 is better? Yeah, none of this is really making any sense to me.

And btw, did we just forget about the historic 27 game winning streak?

[Nash]

And Bosh being healthier, facing better competition overall, and are actually the most well-rounded of the 3 teams. The 11 Heat are the only team from the 3 to be a Top 5 offensive and defensive team from their respective seasons.



It matters because those teams were better than their respective opponents than what the other Heat teams faced.



Nice hyperbole with no substance behind it.

Offense

2011: 111.7 (3rd of 30) League Average 107.3
2012: 106.6 (8th of 30) League Average 104.6
2013: 112.3 (2nd of 30) League Average 105.9

Defense

2011: 103.5 (5th of 30) League Average 107.3
2012: 100.2 (4th of 30) League Average 104.6
2013: 103.7 (9th of 30) League Average 105.9


All 3 teams play around virtually 91 possessions too.

So while the offense is slightly better, it's certainly not on another level. And your wrong about their defense being much better as well. The offense was better and that is something that comes right from the mouth of the players and their coach.

[Legends66NBA7]

I could easily argue that Pacers are a much more difficult opponent for Miami than 2011 Celtics.

By all means, argue it.

[DMAVS41]

I could easily argue that Pacers are a much more difficult opponent for Miami than 2011 Celtics. Hibbert and West are the kinda physical players that Miami have no answer to. Also, Boston 11 were old and Rondo got injured a game or 2 into the series. Boston were like the big 3 only all of them being 34-35 instead of their prime.

The whole damn year we hear nothing but Miami being a historically stacked team, stacked this and stacked that and now people are trying to tell me that Miami 11 is better? Yeah, none of this is really making any sense to me.

And btw, did we just forget about the historic 27 game winning streak?

I think you are confused. The 13 Heat during the 27 game win streak were easily the best version of the Heatles...so to speak.

The problem? The team in the playoffs was nothing like the win streak Heat. Nothing.

And you can argue it all you want about the Pacers vs Celtics...and I agree that mathup was tough for the Heat, but it was the sheer dominance of the 11 Heat...

The 13 Heat, even before the Pacers series, looked like shit.

[Hoopz2332]

2013 heat only looked "off" because of Wade being injured and Bosh struggling against the Pacers big lineup. The 2013 Pacers IMO are hardest matchup the Heat have faced in the big 3 era.

2011 Sixers- wack

2011 Celtics- good but that as difficult as some think

2011 Bulls -great d but bad offense. Not as good aa the 2013 pacers for the simple fact that Bosh beasted Boozer and Noah easily in 2011 but looked like trash and struggled with david West and Hibbert of 2013 pacers. David West and Hibbert>>>>>>>>>Booze and Noah.

2011 Dallas- heat should have beat them but Dallas were hot from 3 and lebron stopped being aggressive and became passive



.
.
.
.
.
2012 Knicks- better than 2011 Sixers

2012 Pacers - better than 2011 sixers but only took the Heat to 6 games because of Bosh getting injured and wade being somewhat hobbled

2012 - better than 2011 Bulls but only took the heat to 7 because of Bosh being out and Wade being somewhat hobbled.

2012 Thunder- easily the best team the heat faced in the big 3 era up to that point. Much better than 2011 Dallas...the only difference was the heat added battier and Thunder's style plays into Miami's game plan

.
.
.
.
.

2013 Bucks- great D trash offense

2013 Bulls- No Drose but were a better version of the Bucks

2013 Pacers - The toughest matchup HANDS DOWN the heat faced in the big 3 era. Paces D and size made everyone outside of Lebron and Birdman look like trash. You remember how easy it was for Bosh to own Boozer and noah? You couldn't do any of that on Hibbert and D West.

2013 Spurs - Not as good as the 2012 Thunder or 2013 Pacers but better than all of the other teams the Heat of the "Big 3 Era" have faced.

[All Net]

I think you are confused. The 13 Heat during the 27 game win streak were easily the best version of the Heatles...so to speak.

The problem? The team in the playoffs was nothing like the win streak Heat. Nothing.

And you can argue it all you want about the Pacers vs Celtics...and I agree that mathup was tough for the Heat, but it was the sheer dominance of the 11 Heat...

The 13 Heat, even before the Pacers series, looked like shit.

Wade's health was a big factor in that.

[DMAVS41]

Wade's health was a big factor in that.

I don't understand this point...

[DMAVS41]

2013 heat only looked "off" because of Wade being injured and Bosh struggling against the Pacers big lineup. The 2013 Pacers IMO are hardest matchup the Heat have faced in the big 3 era.

2011 Sixers- wack

2011 Celtics- good but that as difficult as some think

2011 Bulls -great d but bad offense. Not as good aa the 2013 pacers for the simple fact that Bosh beasted Boozer and Noah easily in 2011 but looked like trash and struggled with david West and Hibbert of 2013 pacers. David West and Hibbert>>>>>>>>>Booze and Noah.

2011 Dallas- heat should have beat them but Dallas were hot from 3 and lebron stopped being aggressive and became passive



.
.
.
.
.
2012 Knicks- better than 2011 Sixers

2012 Pacers - better than 2011 sixers but only took the Heat to 6 games because of Bosh getting injured and wade being somewhat hobbled

2012 - better than 2011 Bulls but only took the heat to 7 because of Bosh being out and Wade being somewhat hobbled.

2012 Thunder- easily the best team the heat faced in the big 3 era up to that point. Much better than 2011 Dallas...the only difference was the heat added battier and Thunder's style plays into Miami's game plan

.
.
.
.
.

2013 Bucks- great D trash offense

2013 Bulls- No Drose but were a better version of the Bucks

2013 Pacers - The toughest matchup HANDS DOWN the heat faced in the big 3 era. Paces D and size made everyone outside of Lebron and Birdman look like trash. You remember how easy it was for Bosh to own Boozer and noah? You couldn't do any of that on Hibbert and D West.

2013 Spurs - Not as good as the 2012 Thunder or 2013 Pacers but better than all of the other teams the Heat of the "Big 3 Era" have faced.

How are the Spurs better than the Mavs?

Dirk was clearly the best player on either team...clearly...so remove Duncan and Dirk

You're taking;

parker/manu/leonard/diaw/splitter/green/neal/bonner

over;

terry/chandler/stevenson/marion/peja/barea/haywood/kidd

I don't believe that..especially with how those Mavs played in the finals compared to Duncan's help.

[All Net]

I don't understand this point...

Meaning the reason they didn't look as good as when they won 27 straight was due to Wade's injury. It's no surprise they looked dominant when he was actually healthly.

[DMAVS41]

Meaning the reason they didn't look as good as when they won 27 straight was due to Wade's injury. It's no surprise they looked dominant when he was actually healthly.

Of course. That's my point...they weren't anything like they were during the streak in the playoffs.

But Wade was hurt in the 13 playoffs and that team was just not as impressive as the pervious two.

[All Net]

Of course. That's my point...they weren't anything like they were during the streak in the playoffs.

But Wade was hurt in the 13 playoffs and that team was just not as impressive as the pervious two.

Yeah I agree, even with 2012 Heat losing Bosh for a series...they looked more impressive.

[Indian guy]

Every poster with a known agenda against LeBron said 2011. :oldlol:


Hilarious, isn't it? And they are ONLY doing it for one reason, because LeBron didn't win that year, so they can play the "see, he can't win when the competition is good, even though it was his best team!!" card.

This notion that a team's competition should completely define how good they were is preposterous. The 90's Bulls faced better teams in the playoffs in '92, '93 and '97, does that make them better than the '96 Bulls?? Same applies to the '87 Lakers, whose playoff competition was a joke outside the Finals, yet the far majority consider that team to be the best of the bunch.

The only thing the '11 team has over the '13 team is a better Wade(by about 15%). Bosh wasn't better, Miami simply had to rely on him more because everybody outside the Big 3 was so goddamn awful. And LeBron is a far, far superior player in '13 than '11, something boxscore watchers simply won't understand. He has a 2nd gear, an ability to raise his game when necessary in '13 that he simply didn't possess in 2011, which was his worst season besides 2007 since turning superstar in 2006. There is also a world of difference in how LeBron was covered in '11 and '12 than '13. Again, boxscore watchers and narrative-dwellers won't understand this.

SA is also the best team they faced over the last 3 years. A team that not only had no weaknesses, but in fact did everything well. It's no surprise why pretty much everyone on Miami considered beating SA the toughest thing they ever had to do. That team was impossible to pull away from.

[SCdac]

Don't forget Chris Bosh's game-winning 3 pointer at the end of the season when Lebron and Wade didn't play..... I was at that game :(

http://dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/chris-bosh-game-winner.png


"We are the defending champs no matter who we put out there," Bosh said. "We are still the Miami Heat. We believe in ourselves. Each one of these guys is a professional. We played bigger roles in other cities but we came together and accepted lesser roles to win a championship here. We can still tap into that."

Ray Allen added 14 points, Norris Cole had 13 and Mike Miller 12 for Miami (58-15), which swept the season series with San Antonio (55-18). By earning the head-to-head tiebreaker with San Antonio, the Heat have a four-game cushion with nine remaining for the league's best record.

[Hoopz2332]

How are the Spurs better than the Mavs?

Dirk was clearly the best player on either team...clearly...so remove Duncan and Dirk

You're taking;

parker/manu/leonard/diaw/splitter/green/neal/bonner

over;

terry/chandler/stevenson/marion/peja/barea/haywood/kidd

I don't believe that..especially with how those Mavs played in the finals compared to Duncan's help.


That Dallas team just wasn't that impressive. Their outiside shooters just got very hot from 3 and lebron became passive when Dallas turned him into a passer instead of trying to force the issue. The best 3 teams the heat have faced in the big 3 era are

1. 2012 Thunder

2. 2013 Pacers because of matchups

3. 2013 Spurs

[DMAVS41]

That Dallas team just wasn't that impressive. Their outiside shooters just got very hot from 3 and lebron became passive when Dallas turned him into a passer instead of trying to force the issue. The best 3 teams the heat have faced in the big 3 era are

1. 2012 Thunder

2. 2013 Pacers because of matchups

3. 2013 Spurs

That just isn't an argument.

Wasn't impressive? They 12-3 against the Blazers, Lakers, and Thunder...and then beat the Heat in 6. That's about the toughest road to the title we've seen in years.

The 11 Mavs had by far the best player out of the 13 spurs/11 Mavs as well.

So I don't know what you are talking about. Not to mention Parker got injured and was awful for the series...while Manu was terrible as well. Contrast that with how good Terry and Marion and Kidd were in the finals.

[Hoopz2332]

That just isn't an argument.

Wasn't impressive? They 12-3 against the Blazers, Lakers, and Thunder...and then beat the Heat in 6. That's about the toughest road to the title we've seen in years.

The 11 Mavs had by far the best player out of the 13 spurs/11 Mavs as well.

So I don't know what you are talking about. Not to mention Parker got injured and was awful for the series...while Manu was terrible as well. Contrast that with how good Terry and Marion and Kidd were in the finals.

The heat should have smoked the mavs that year...I don't think the Mavs were any tougher than the Bulls or celtics that same year. The differerence was Lebron going ghost/not being aggressive/defering to wade too much and the Mavs getting hot from 3.

[Indian guy]

Given how impactful a defender Duncan is, I would say the difference between him and Dirk is negligible at best.

Tony Parker is better than anybody else on Dallas. Injured? Please. I like how he suddenly became injured any time Miami stuck LeBron on him and shut him down. He seemed perfectly fine when somebody else guarded him. And even purely from a physical standpoint, he never seemed hindered in any way to me.

The rest of the rosters are a toss-up. Dallas simply played better because Miami's over-collapsing defense of 2011 was easy to exploit back then. They wouldn't have had that kind of offensive success against the '13 team.

And can we be real? The only reason Dallas won that series is because LeBron went on vacation after Game 2. He had the most unproductive series by a superstar in NBA history.

[SCdac]

Eh... Spurs, Thunder, Mavs... these teams are way too similar in strength to really draw clear differences... I can see arguments for all of them, which to me shows they're more equal than not.

2013 Heat can beat all of them I think, but 2011 Heat I think could easily lose to all three of them... because Lebron was vulnerable and Heat's roster was shallow and it was their first season together.

- Mavs were what, 8th best offense, 8th best defense that '11 season. Barea and Terry each had big games and haven't done much since.
- Thunder were sick in '12 (swept the Mavs and beat the Spurs), Durant scored 31 ppg on the Heat, yet an improved and hungry Heat team hammered em.
- Spurs were deep much like the '11 Mavs, Heat even when banged up/hurt managed to beat them and their improved roster showed resiliency.

[Hoopz2332]

Eh... Spurs, Thunder, Mavs... these teams are way too similar in strength to really draw clear differences... I can see arguments for all of them, which to me shows they're more equal than not.

2013 Heat can beat all of them I think, but 2011 Heat I think could easily lose to all three of them... because Lebron was vulnerable and Heat's roster was shallow and it was their first season together.

- Mavs were what, 8th best offense, 8th best defense that '11 season. Barea and Terry each had big games and haven't done much since.
- Thunder were sick in '12 (swept the Mavs and beat the Spurs), Durant scored 31 ppg on the Heat, yet an improved and hungry Heat team hammered em.
- Spurs were deep much like the '11 Mavs, Heat even when banged up/hurt managed to beat them and their improved roster showed resiliency.

2012 Thunder were waay better than 2011 mavs and 2013 Spurs. The difference was that they played almost exactly like the heat but at an inferior rate so heat had the advantage.

[Hoopz2332]

Given how impactful a defender Duncan is, I would say the difference between him and Dirk is negligible at best.

Tony Parker is better than anybody else on Dallas. Injured? Please. I like how he suddenly became injured any time Miami stuck LeBron on him and shut him down. He seemed perfectly fine when somebody else guarded him. And even purely from a physical standpoint, he never seemed hindered in any way to me.

The rest of the rosters are a toss-up. Dallas simply played better because Miami's over-collapsing defense of 2011 was easy to exploit back then. They wouldn't have had that kind of offensive success against the '13 team.

And can we be real? The only reason Dallas won that series is because LeBron went on vacation after Game 2. He had the most unproductive series by a superstar in NBA history.

:applause:

[DMAVS41]

Given how impactful a defender Duncan is, I would say the difference between him and Dirk is negligible at best.

Tony Parker is better than anybody else on Dallas. Injured? Please. I like how he suddenly became injured any time Miami stuck LeBron on him and shut him down. He seemed perfectly fine when somebody else guarded him. And even purely from a physical standpoint, he never seemed hindered in any way to me.

The rest of the rosters are a toss-up. Dallas simply played better because Miami's over-collapsing defense of 2011 was easy to exploit back then. They wouldn't have had that kind of offensive success against the '13 team.

And can we be real? The only reason Dallas won that series is because LeBron went on vacation after Game 2. He had the most unproductive series by a superstar in NBA history.

This boils down to just not giving the Mavs any credit at all. And no, as much as I like Duncan...Dirk was on another level in the 11 playoffs. The fact that you think there impact was negligible just floors me. Considering most people thought Parker was the best player on that team until the finals...I'm assuming you then have 13 Parker on the same level as 11 Dirk in the playoffs...and honestly...at that rate, might as well not ever distinguish between players.

And where is this notion that Lebron wasn't prone to playing poorly offensively in 13? The guy went ghost in in 4 of the first 5 games of the finals...then went ghost in first 3 qtrs of game 6. If the Spurs don't crumble down the stretch and ray allen misses that three...Lebron's series is epically bad once again.

The first 3 games of the finals. 16 ppg on 45% TS...that is beyond bad. It's horrendous. So even if you give the Mavs no credit for Lebron's poor play...then you are stuck with not giving the Spurs credit either. Take your pick as long as you remain consistent.