The Shield > Breaking Bad

[Bless Mathews]

By a hair.

BB has too many whoppers to believe ..

The Shield 's filming tips it over too. So raw and real ...skilled muufucin camera men...

*** preface to haters..



Don't type shit if you. Haven't seen COMPLETE series of the shield.

[guy]

Shield is awesome but I have to disagree.

[gts]

I'm a Sheild guy myself... Not saying it's better, everyone has different tastes but for myself I liked the Shield better

[TheMarkMadsen]

Believe in justice.

Believe in the SHIELD

[El Kabong]

Dunno, it's hard to pick. Love them both dearly, Shield probably had a few more gut punch moments (the grenade for example) than Breaking Bad for mine. Plus they had some quality guest stars in there too, Forest Whitaker was awesome as Kavanaugh on there.

[johndeeregreen]

Well, one thing about the Shield is that to me, I ended up much more invested in the characters (Ronnie, Lem, Vic, Shane) then I did in BB, and like has been said, to me there were definitely more moments where I just had the wind knocked out of me. At the end of that series I basically felt empty inside for like a week.

To me they are too different to compare. BB did it with sheer suspense and creative writing, whereas the Shield did it for me in terms of characterization and "feeling" I guess. I guess if I had to choose one it would be the Shield, but they are both great shows in their own regard and they both did it in different ways.

[TheSilentKiller]

Damn good commitment to the thread :applause:

Oh and couldn't agree more.

[johndeeregreen]

Dunno, it's hard to pick. Love them both dearly, Shield probably had a few more gut punch moments (the grenade for example) than Breaking Bad for mine.
To me, nothing matches Vic selling Ronnie out for his deal with ICE in that series in terms of how bad it broke me up. Except maybe the interrogation room scene where it's revealed Shane killed himself, his wife, and his children, believing that to be better for them than to be exposed to Vic. His last letter was...whooo.

[TheReal Kendall]

Is the Shield really that good?

I tried it a long time ago when it first aired but I was still in high school and I had other shit going on.

Never picked it back up.

Was thinking about watching all the episodes earlier today

[irondarts]

Is the Shield really that good?

I tried it a long time ago when it first aired but I was still in high school and I had other shit going on.

Never picked it back up.

Was thinking about watching all the episodes earlier today
Yes, it's that good. Watch it.

[Bless Mathews]

Well, one thing about the Shield is that to me, I ended up much more invested in the characters (Ronnie, Lem, Vic, Shane) then I did in BB, and like has been said, to me there were definitely more moments where I just had the wind knocked out of me. At the end of that series I basically felt empty inside for like a week.

To me they are too different to compare. BB did it with sheer suspense and creative writing, whereas the Shield did it for me in terms of characterization and "feeling" I guess. I guess if I had to choose one it would be the Shield, but they are both great shows in their own regard and they both did it in different ways.
Word. I'm on the same pagge. Lem was my favorite. The moral compass. I felt sick for a day after he died. How Shane went out? ??!!!??? Man. I think the filming has a lot to do with feeling so close. You WERE right there. NO build up music. Just raw uncut. Like you were the 5th member of the krew.

And what antwon Mitchell did? ??!!!???!! (Anthhony Anderson KILLED it. )More gangster than anything Walt ever did.

Bb did have better character development. One thing I learned in lit class I took in college when playing. Ball. Everyone went WAY. further when they started. Walt a geeky high school chemistry teacher to ruthless kingpin. Jesse druggie to morally conscious.



Bb just had. To many hard to believe scenarios.


The shield by a tenth of a second.

[RedBlackAttack]

If you're watching BB because you enjoy a really realistic view of the impact of drugs on society, individuals, family, police, etc., you're doing it wrong. That's sort of like criticizing Game of Thrones because you don't believe in dragons.

BB is pretty clearly not being written to be totally realistic. I haven't watched The Shield so I can't say whether or not it is more or less realistic, but if they put any effort at all into not creating unbelievable coincidences, it is probably more realistic.

That's not why I watch BB, though.

Also, if that's your biggest criticism of the show, I'd suggest The Wire. There will be no television series on the topic of law enforcement, the War on Drugs, etc., as spot-on as The Wire.

There's no point in even trying to replicate what that show created, really. Better to do what BB did and just go for the entertainment-at-all-costs scenes instead.

[Bless Mathews]

^^^^^_^^^^

LOL.


Watch the Shield bruh. You'll get what I'm typing ...

BB isn't trying to be real????? LOL. Come on bruh. Watch all seasons of the Shield than reply please.

[RoseCity07]

Sorry but no. The Shield was my favorite show before BB. Vic was a great character and the story was great. However, The Shield is much more jumbled. You can come in late in the show and it doesn't matter. I don't even remember all the stuff that happened before Shane threw that grenade that killed Lem.

Breaking Bad has been great since day one. I have to admit season 5 seems a lot different from what came before. I think 1-4 is near perfection. If they end this series right it could be the greatest ever. Although even if they botch the ending I don't think The Shield beats it.

[RedBlackAttack]

^^^^^_^^^^

LOL.


Watch the Shield bruh. You'll get what I'm typing ...

BB isn't trying to be real????? LOL. Come on bruh. Watch all seasons of the Shield than reply please.
No, they aren't trying at all. It's fairly obvious.

[Bless Mathews]

No, they aren't trying at all. It's fairly obvious.
:facepalm

[Bless Mathews]

Sorry but no. The Shield was my favorite show before BB. Vic was a great character and the story was great. However, The Shield is much more jumbled. You can come in late in the show and it doesn't matter. I don't even remember all the stuff that happened before Shane threw that grenade that killed Lem.

Breaking Bad has been great since day one. I have to admit season 5 seems a lot different from what came before. I think 1-4 is near perfection. If they end this series right it could be the greatest ever. Although even if they botch the ending I don't think The Shield beats it.
You don't remember anything before the last episode of season 5 of the Shield ??!!??? Hilarious.

NO way you can come into a season and get the show. So much beef within krew. Shane vs Vic. Vic. Vs acevado. Your playin right??? Smh

Seriously don't think you watched complete series with statement like that.

[qrich]

Obviously. I think OP is being too nice by saying a tenth of a second, but either way, The Shield shits on Breaking Bad. The acting, story line, suspense without any bull, etc.

Throw in the fact that The Shield draws you in from the pilot and continues to improve, as opposed to having a dragging start before any sort of build up. Three episodes in, I was going to give up on Breaking Bad due to sheer boredom, but people kept saying, wait until the fifth. I get there, then its wait until the eight, and so on. Never understood the infatuation with it.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Breaking Bad is the greatest hour long drama TV show of all time. Period. Nothing will come close. The acting, the writing, the directing. I mean, holy shit, Ozymandias felt like it should have been experienced on a movie screen. It was that good. And Bryan Cranston's acting is the best I've seen in a long time. Screw just giving him Emmys, he deserves an Oscar too.

[ConanRulesNBC]

No, they aren't trying at all. It's fairly obvious.

:confusedshrug:

[Bless Mathews]

Breaking Bad is the greatest hour long drama TV show of all time. Period. Nothing will come close. The acting, the writing, the directing. I mean, holy shit, Ozymandias felt like it should have been experienced on a movie screen. It was that good. And Bryan Cranston's acting is the best I've seen in a long time. Screw just giving him Emmys, he deserves an Oscar too.
Have you seen the Shield complete series?

[ConanRulesNBC]

Have you seen the Shield complete series?

I will give it a shot. But I'd be very surprised. And I post on tons of other forums with people who have watched both and really this is the first time I've heard someone say The Shield is better than Breaking Bad. I've heard great things about The Shield but never that it was better than BB.

[Bless Mathews]

I will give it a shot. But I'd be very surprised. And I post on tons of other forums with people who have watched both and really this is the first time I've heard someone say The Shield is better than Breaking Bad. I've heard great things about The Shield but never that it was better than BB.
:facepalm
Don't type if you haven't seen complete series of the Shield.
Smh...

[flipogb]

i was expecting a lot and it was still surprisingly good

[RedBlackAttack]

:confusedshrug:
I don't understand the confusion. Breaking Bad has veered toward entertainment over realism, which is perfectly fine... But is this something which is even debatable at this point? I like the show a lot, btw. I'm not putting it down.

The number of unusual coincidences and unlikely circumstances which have dominated many of the five seasons don't really need to be listed, do they?

[guy]

I don't understand how anyone can say you can just start watching the shield in the middle of the series. There's literally things that happen in the series pilot that don't get resolved until the very end of the series.

[dr.hee]

Have you seen the Shield complete series?

I have seen The Shield completely, and I wonder...is this the Off-Topic version of Kobe vs Lebron or Melo vs Durant?

Two entirely different shows, what's the point? It's like saying "Pizza>Chesseburger", "Led Zeppelin>John Coltrane" and "The Godfather>Schindler's List". :confusedshrug:

[gts]

I don't understand how anyone can say you can just start watching the shield in the middle of the series. There's literally things that happen in the series pilot that don't get resolved until the very end of the series.

You can't really.

I suppose you could try but you'd be missing out on the evolution of how they got from point A to point B which is the entire purpose of the show

[guy]

I'd say Breaking Bad is better. Its my favorite show of all-time, but I'd rank the Shield pretty high. For me, it probably goes:

1. Breaking Bad
2. The Wire
3. The Shield

But I will say that for me, Vick Mackey might be the greatest character ever. Dude was such a badass.

[dr.hee]

But I will say that for me, Vick Mackey might be the greatest character ever. Dude was such a badass.

During the first season of BB, Hank actualy felt like a cheap comedy version of him to me. Didn't care about him at all, but he grew on me with the series proceding.

[Kblaze8855]

Nah. And ive seen it start to finish twice(I watched the entire series with my friends who had never seen it).

Shield is probably in my top 10 or so.

[guy]

You can't really.

I suppose you could try but you'd be missing out on the evolution of how they got from point A to point B which is the entire purpose of the show

Exactly. You can't start in the middle of this series, the same way you can't start Breaking Bad or the Wire in the middle of the series.

[guy]

The number of unusual coincidences and unlikely circumstances which have dominated many of the five seasons don't really need to be listed, do they?

Like what? I'm not saying there aren't any, but I've heard other people say the same thing with specific examples, yet I wouldn't have called those unusual coincidences or unlikely circumstances. I don't think there's as much of an abundance of those as some people say.

[ConanRulesNBC]

I don't understand the confusion. Breaking Bad has veered toward entertainment over realism, which is perfectly fine... But is this something which is even debatable at this point? I like the show a lot, btw. I'm not putting it down.

The number of unusual coincidences and unlikely circumstances which have dominated many of the five seasons don't really need to be listed, do they?

I don't get how the events of Breaking Bad couldn't happen in real life. Nothing about the show is that unrealistic.

[nightprowler10]

I was one of the few people I knew that actually really got into the Shield right from the beginning. I loved the show all the way till the end. That said, I'd say BB is at least on par with it if not better. I think the main characters in BB are stronger than in the Shield, which puts it over the top.

[RedBlackAttack]

Like what? I'm not saying there aren't any, but I've heard other people say the same thing with specific examples, yet I wouldn't have called those unusual coincidences or unlikely circumstances. I don't think there's as much of an abundance of those as some people say.


I don't get how the events of Breaking Bad couldn't happen in real life. Nothing about the show is that unrealistic.

***possible spoilers***


I'm not going to go through every unrealistic scenario the show has offered up through years. There is probably at least one unrealistic series of events in every episode, with the exception of the one about the fly. From Walt throwing that chemical into the ground while in Tuco's compound which created a major explosion but didn't hurt anyone to Walt single-handidly taking down Gus who single-handidly took down the most powerful Mexican cartel to Walt drinking with Jesse's GF's dad in the bar the same night he was in the room when she died... And then the guy orchestrated an elaborate series of plane crashes directly above Walt's house... etc.


But, the whole premise of the show is somewhat unrealistic, is it not? A very passive chemistry teacher who has been beaten up by life suddenly transforms into the an extremely aggressive super villain who runs a meth empire less than a year later.

Again, I like the show a lot. It isn't realistic at all, though. I don't watch it to be a reflection of real life. My whole original point was that these unrealistic scenarios shouldn't be held against it.

[Bless Mathews]

Gus having a mobile hospital ....

Walt having a brother in law as dea agent...

Gus having lunch with dea as Walt sees him.

To go along with above

[RedBlackAttack]

Gus having a mobile hospital ....

Walt having a brother in law as dea agent...

Gus having lunch with dea as Walt sees him.

To go along with above

***more spoilers***

How about all of the times the main characters were about to die and a miraculous event saved them at the last second? The two hitmen outside Walt's bathroom as he's getting a shower receive a phone call seconds before dispatching him, forcing them to leave the house.

Jessie essentially committing suicide by running at those drug dealers when, at the last millisecond, Walt comes out of nowhere to run them over and then urge Jessie to flee the area.

Hank somehow finding a way out of the grips of those two hitmen mentioned above, who had been basically untouchable during the lead up to that moment. I understand Hank got a phonecall from Gus, but he was unarmed and a sitting duck. In real life, that's a death.

Walt seconds away from being killed, devises a scheme on the spot to kill Gail, which miraculously saves his life.

Hank being the guy who tracks Tuco down in the middle of the desert while he's holding Jessie and Walt captive.

etc.


Maybe one life-saving coincidence in real life would be believable. Having several of them over the course of a year?

[DonDadda59]

Never saw an episode of the Shield, it's one of the shows on my to-watch list. But like RBA pointed out above, anyone who claims that BB is in any way realistic is just fooling themselves. And I've been over the writing conventions that are employed in basically every episode (convenience, coincidence, deus ex machina).

We'd be here all night if we went through every example. But RBA pointed out some examples without even going into the MacGyveresque abilities that Walt always seems to have up his sleeve whenever it's convenient. But one of the most egregious abuses was when Jesse and Walt are trapped in the RV in the junkyard, right before Hank opens the door, ole Joe turns out to be a Harvard grad level legal expert and breaks down the nuances of constitutional law... thereby, as usual, conveniently saving the heroes at the very last second. I was sitting there doing this watching that :rolleyes:

The show is great for manufactured suspense but let's stop pretending it doesn't have an over-reliance on gimmickry and is at all realistic.

[RedBlackAttack]

We'd be here all night if we went through every example. But RBA pointed out some examples without even going into the MacGyveresque abilities that Walt always seems to have up his sleeve whenever it's convenient. But one of the most egregious abuses was when Jesse and Walt are trapped in the RV in the junkyard, right before Hank opens the door, ole Joe turns out to be a Harvard grad level legal expert and breaks down the nuances of constitutional law... thereby, as usual, conveniently saving the heroes at the very last second. I was sitting there doing this watching that :rolleyes:

Oh jesus... I forgot about that one. :oldlol:

Yes, one must suspend disbelief when watching BB. It's sort of like a comic book come to life. I understand why some people are turned off to the show because of it, but I've been able to put aside the obvious plot contrivances over the years and just be entertained.

I'm usually not like that, but I'm able to for this show.


A buddy of mine tried to get me into The Shield years ago. At the time, The Wire was in full swing and I just couldn't take it too seriously after already being deeply immersed in the world of Stringer, Avon, Prop Joe, Bunk, etc.

I may give it another shot now. It's really unfair to any show to have be compared to The Wire, which I consider probably the greatest achievement in television history.

[johndeeregreen]

I may give it another shot now. It's really unfair to any show to have be compared to The Wire, which I consider probably the greatest achievement in television history.
Even though it's a disservice and downright affront to the Wire to call it a 'cop show,' it has ruined 'cop shows' for me because none can ever measure up to the grittiness of it. If you're looking for anything that gritty and real, you will always come up short.

Luckily, what the Shield lacks in...that... makes up for in many other areas. It's a phenomenal show.

[Bless Mathews]

Watching first season cuz Marathon on...

35,000 a pound? /!>< for their pre blue lab quality? / no way.

LOL. Don't care how good it is. Way off....
...
Half that is bap city.

[dr.hee]

Watching first season cuz Marathon on...

35,000 a pound? /!>< for their pre blue lab quality? / no way.

LOL. Don't care how good it is. Way off....
...
Half that is bap city.

:facepalm

The show never claimed to be documentary style. So why don't you make a thread complaining about Spiderman having super powers and Schindler's List being black&white even though they had colors back then?

Don't know, if I don't like a show, I don't watch it. Why complain about it online? Is Breakig Bad popular enough now that if you wanna be smart and special, you should be the one saying it's overrated?

And again, why do you compare BB and The Shield? Two entirely different shows. What's the point? I like both shows, but why comparing them at all?

[Blue&Orange]

Not even close. I guess breaking bad doesn't have enough dumb black people getting arrested, so homies can't relate. Shield acting and writing is way way below breaking bad.


You gotta love this idiots rationale, "if it doesn't show the ghetto, it sucks!"

[Bless Mathews]

:facepalm

The show never claimed to be documentary style. So why don't you make a thread complaining about Spiderman having super powers and Schindler's List being black&white even though they had colors back then?

Don't know, if I don't like a show, I don't watch it. Why complain about it online? Is Breakig Bad popular enough now that if you wanna be smart and special, you should be the one saying it's overrated?

And again, why do you compare BB and The Shield? Two entirely different shows. What's the point? I like both shows, but why comparing them at all?
Erryone typin bb is the goat on here. That's why. Smh.

[Bless Mathews]

Not even close. I guess breaking bad doesn't have enough dumb black people getting arrested, so homies can't relate. Shield acting and writing is way way below breaking bad.


You gotta love this idiots rationale, "if it doesn't show the ghetto, it sucks!"
Watch your fingers boy.

I can relate to bb more than anyone on here fucc face.

[dr.hee]

Erryone typin bb is the goat on here. That's why. Smh.

So it's about feeling smarter than everybody else? BB had ridiculously low ratings for a long time. Some crappy daily soaps generate more viewers over here in Germany than the first seasons of Breaking Bad. Nowadays it's kinda popular, so the smart thing to do is to call it overrated?

Besides, even if you disagree with people saying BB is their favorite show (which is idiotic to begin with, it's like disagreeing with people saying Pizza is their favorite food), why compare it to an entirely different show? Some people writing in the Breakin Bad thread are saying BB is their GOAT, so what? Everyone is saying this? How many people are registered on ISH? How many of them have said BB is their favorite show of all time? Do you actually think before you post?

[nightprowler10]

Even though it's a disservice and downright affront to the Wire to call it a 'cop show,' it has ruined 'cop shows' for me because none can ever measure up to the grittiness of it. If you're looking for anything that gritty and real, you will always come up short.

Luckily, what the Shield lacks in...that... makes up for in many other areas. It's a phenomenal show.
I started watching The Wire at least a year after The Shield ended. My co-workers and I were all really into the Shield. When I watched The Wire in it's entirety, by the end of it the Shield just seemed like child's play to me. I remember having the conversation with my coworker, like "dude, I'm sorry, but the Shield isn't as awesome as we thought". The dude still hasn't watched the Wire, literally refuses to do it.

I really think that for some of us, The Shield suffers because The Wire exists. Imagine if there was a TV drama that dealt with the Breaking Bad type of storyline but was much more realistic and gritty a la Wire, I imagine BB would suffer because of it.

At the end of the day though, I think Gilligan's style and Cranston/Paul's superb acting really puts this show over the top. In contrast, and I'm sure I'm selling other actors short due to having a short term memory, I feel like Goggins was the only one who was consistently great throughout the show.

I still recommend that BB fans watch The Shield. It really is an awesome show.

[dr.hee]

I still recommend that BB fans watch The Shield. It really is an awesome show.

Definitely. Still, I feel they went nowhere with some interesting stuff. I thought Dutch would go bash!t when he killed that cat. Felt like with him being constantly put down by everybody, he'd snap and go on a killing spree or something. Would've liked to see his dark side being explored more. Still, great show overall even though some plot lines felt like fillers.

[nightprowler10]

Definitely. Still, I feel they went nowhere with some interesting stuff. I thought Dutch would go bash!t when he killed that cat. Felt like with him being constantly put down by everybody, he'd snap and go on a killing spree or something. Would've liked to see his dark side being explored more. Still, great show overall.
Yes, this. Dutch was an great character that was wasted IMO. I feel like the cat scene was there just for shock value. The ****ed up Aceveda scene was shocking as well, but at least that contributed greatly to the story. I really thought that scene where he sees his cute cop crush getting manhandled by that cool cop would make something snap too.

[Bless Mathews]

So it's about feeling smarter than everybody else? BB had ridiculously low ratings for a long time. Some crappy daily soaps generate more viewers over here in Germany than the first seasons of Breaking Bad. Nowadays it's kinda popular, so the smart thing to do is to call it overrated?

Besides, even if you disagree with people saying BB is their favorite show (which is idiotic to begin with, it's like disagreeing with people saying Pizza is their favorite food), why compare it to an entirely different show? Some people writing in the Breakin Bad thread are saying BB is their GOAT, so what? Everyone is saying this? How many people are registered on ISH? How many of them have said BB is their favorite show of all time? Do you actually think before you post?
Calm the fvck down fvck boy.

Wtf is wrong with you? Its a message board. HUNDREDS of topics about typin something is goat IR something /someone is better than ...

Your a fvcking idiot.

Complete fvcking fool.

[dr.hee]

Your a fvcking idiot.

Complete fvcking fool.

Good points. Well reasoned. Keyboard warrior much?

:roll:

[guy]

There is probably at least one unrealistic series of events in every episode, with the exception of the one about the fly.


Thats a huge stretch.



From Walt throwing that chemical into the ground while in Tuco's compound which created a major explosion but didn't hurt anyone

Didn't hurt anyone, as in didn't injure anyone? Well that was the intention of Walt, who was smart enough to know that that wouldn't cause such an impact.



to Walt single-handidly taking down Gus who single-handidly took down the most powerful Mexican cartel

He didn't single-handedly take him down. He needed the help of Hector, Jesse, Saul, and it took numerous failed attempts before he was finally able to get to him. And Walt, like I said, is a mastermind genius like Gus. It was two mastermind geniuses against each other.



to Walt drinking with Jesse's GF's dad in the bar the same night he was in the room when she died... And then the guy orchestrated an elaborate series of plane crashes directly above Walt's house... etc.

Okay. The bar scene was a coincidence. Fair point. IMO though, its not like it really needed to be done for Walt to go back and check on Jesse. He could've just been at the bar and reflected on Jesse on his own and still went back. It was obviously more for just dramatic effect so I didn't really have a problem with it.

As far as the plane crash, I don't see the issue with him happening to be an air traffic controller. Its not like its not some everyday man's job. And part of the story has been about how Walt's actions has such an indirect impact on other things that have nothing to do with him, whether that affects people he knows or doesn't know. Now I don't know the logistics of an air traffic controller's job, and how difficult it could be to actually get two planes to crash against each other. If thats almost impossible, then sure, criticism is deserved.

As far as the plane crash landing on Walt's property, it landed everywhere around the city.



But, the whole premise of the show is somewhat unrealistic, is it not? A very passive chemistry teacher who has been beaten up by life suddenly transforms into the an extremely aggressive super villain who runs a meth empire less than a year later.

The story reflects that he's always had many of those qualities inside of him and it was just the cancer and the realization that his life maybe over soon that brought it all out of him. He's clearly a sociopath, and then combine that with the fact that he's a genius, and its not totally far-fetched. Of course its unlikely, just like most TV characters are, but its not something that couldn't have happened.



How about all of the times the main characters were about to die and a miraculous event saved them at the last second? The two hitmen outside Walt's bathroom as he's getting a shower receive a phone call seconds before dispatching him, forcing them to leave the house.

Mike was staking out Walt's house at the time, because thats what his job is. Its not like Gus just happened to call the twins.



Jessie essentially committing suicide by running at those drug dealers when, at the last millisecond, Walt comes out of nowhere to run them over and then urge Jessie to flee the area.

Walt didn't come out of nowhere. He wasn't just strolling around the ghettos of ABQ. Tomas was murdered just that day/night, he saw it on the news, and he knew that Jesse was going to after those guys as a result, so he was there to protect him and have his back.



Hank somehow finding a way out of the grips of those two hitmen mentioned above, who had been basically untouchable during the lead up to that moment. I understand Hank got a phonecall from Gus, but he was unarmed and a sitting duck. In real life, that's a death.

They were untouchable? Who did they kill before that besides some poor mexicans? Hank's a DEA agent. He was unarmed, but he got the warning call while he was in an SUV, so not surprisingly he attacked them with his SUV.



Walt seconds away from being killed, devises a scheme on the spot to kill Gail, which miraculously saves his life.

Walt and Jesse had already devised a scheme to kill Gail before that, so Gus would still need them to cook. So Walt, a very smart guy, had to improvise, on the spot, but it was still basically the same plan they had before.



Hank being the guy who tracks Tuco down in the middle of the desert while he's holding Jessie and Walt captive.


Hank was tracking down Jesse, who had a tracker on his car, which led him to that spot. He wasn't just wandering around aimlessly in the dessert.

Like I said, there are plotholes, and there are some coincidences and unusual circumstances, but its overblown.

[guy]

I started watching The Wire at least a year after The Shield ended. My co-workers and I were all really into the Shield. When I watched The Wire in it's entirety, by the end of it the Shield just seemed like child's play to me.

Disagree. Maybe its cause I watched it in the opposite order as you, but while I think the Wire is better, I don't think its THAT much better then the Shield.

[nightprowler10]

Disagree. Maybe its cause I watched it in the opposite order as you, but while I think the Wire is better, I don't think its THAT much better then the Shield.
It just depends on what your preference is I guess. I grew in Pakistan in the 90's and the TV dramas back then were known for their realism and grittiness, though they dealt mostly with family and political issues rather than crime. When I came here, I found that while the TV shows were interesting, they weren't what I was looking for. The Shield was the first show I watched that gave me a dose of what I craved from a show, which is why I loved it, but I freaking overdosed on The Wire. It completely blew anything I had ever watched out of the water, and all the shows dealing with the subjects the Wire deals with seemed juvenile in comparison. The Shield is still my 2nd favorite cop/crime drama though, but for me they're not even in the same league.

As johndeergreen said, the Wire completely ruined these types of shows for me. What you say holds water, perhaps watching them in the opposite order might've affected my opinion, but I think it might've affected my opinion for the worse.

[guy]

It just depends on what your preference is I guess. I grew in Pakistan in the 90's and the TV dramas back then were known for their realism and grittiness, though they dealt mostly with family and political issues rather than crime. When I came here, I found that while the TV shows were interesting, they weren't what I was looking for. The Shield was the first show I watched that gave me a dose of what I craved from a show, which is why I loved it, but I freaking overdosed on The Wire. It completely blew anything I had ever watched out of the water, and all the shows dealing with the subjects the Wire deals with seemed juvenile in comparison. The Shield is still my 2nd favorite cop/crime drama though, but for me they're not even in the same league.

As johndeergreen said, the Wire completely ruined these types of shows for me. What you say holds water, perhaps watching them in the opposite order might've affected my opinion, but I think it might've affected my opinion for the worse.

Imagine Jimmy McNulty replaced by Vick Mackey's character in the Wire? :eek: :eek: Okay, maybe it wouldn't be the same for the worse (Vick Mackey might just overshadow everyone else on the show and need too much TV time.) Just a ridiculously crazy thought.

[guy]

It just depends on what your preference is I guess. I grew in Pakistan in the 90's and the TV dramas back then were known for their realism and grittiness, though they dealt mostly with family and political issues rather than crime. When I came here, I found that while the TV shows were interesting, they weren't what I was looking for. The Shield was the first show I watched that gave me a dose of what I craved from a show, which is why I loved it, but I freaking overdosed on The Wire. It completely blew anything I had ever watched out of the water, and all the shows dealing with the subjects the Wire deals with seemed juvenile in comparison. The Shield is still my 2nd favorite cop/crime drama though, but for me they're not even in the same league.

As johndeergreen said, the Wire completely ruined these types of shows for me. What you say holds water, perhaps watching them in the opposite order might've affected my opinion, but I think it might've affected my opinion for the worse.

Imagine Jimmy McNulty replaced by Vick Mackey's character in the Wire? :eek: :eek: Okay, maybe it wouldn't be the same for the worse (Vick Mackey might just overshadow everyone else on the show and need too much TV time.) Just a ridiculously crazy thought.

[guy]

But one of the most egregious abuses was when Jesse and Walt are trapped in the RV in the junkyard, right before Hank opens the door, ole Joe turns out to be a Harvard grad level legal expert and breaks down the nuances of constitutional law... thereby, as usual, conveniently saving the heroes at the very last second. I was sitting there doing this watching that :rolleyes:


I don't exactly remember, but didn't all the guy basically say was Hank needed a warrant? Which is something that many average joes know already and is mentioned in these shows? Its not like it took some greatly educated person to know these things.

[nightprowler10]

Imagine Jimmy McNulty replaced by Vick Mackey's character in the Wire? :eek: :eek: Okay, maybe it wouldn't be the same for the worse (Vick Mackey might just overshadow everyone else on the show and need too much TV time.) Just a ridiculously crazy thought.
It would be completely out of character for Vic to go to Judge Phelan and rat out his department, it would bring nothing but trouble and he had nothing to gain from it. It would be interesting though. He may still go to Phelan in an effort to try and play both the police and Avon. Not sure how Avon would deal with him though, remember how concerned he was when Kima got shot so I don't he would go after Vic, but I can guarantee you Stringer would be bad at dealing with him. Remember, Stringer was good at his thing because he knew the law, but Vic didn't adhere by the law, at all. Whatever dirt Daniels had done it the past would come up for sure as Vic would try to use that against him. I can see Vic getting Herc and Carver on his side early on and get them loyal to him. Kima would fly solo most of the times.

Vic's character would work in the Wire type of setting only if he wasn't overexposed, otherwise it would screw up the balance of the show.

[guy]

It would be completely out of character for Vic to go to Judge Phelan and rat out his department, it would bring nothing but trouble and he had nothing to gain from it. It would be interesting though. He may still go to Phelan in an effort to try and play both the police and Avon. Not sure how Avon would deal with him though, remember how concerned he was when Kima got shot so I don't he would go after Vic, but I can guarantee you Stringer would be bad at dealing with him. Remember, Stringer was good at his thing because he knew the law, but Vic didn't adhere by the law, at all. Whatever dirt Daniels had done it the past would come up for sure as Vic would try to use that against him. I can see Vic getting Herc and Carver on his side early on and get them loyal to him. Kima would fly solo most of the times.

Vic's character would work in the Wire type of setting only if he wasn't overexposed, otherwise it would screw up the balance of the show.

I wasn't trying to get that specific :cheers: I meant more in that setting with so many compelling characters and storylines around him. Obviously his approach and everyone else's approach as a result towards certain situations would be different. But imagine him going after Stringer, Avon, Wee-bey, Marlo, Chris, etc. Imagine his interactions with Wallace, D'Angelo, Bubbles, Bodie, Omar, etc. **** it, lets just put the whole Strike Team as their Drug Enforcement Unit replacing some of the cops on that show. This time though, they are up against the same drug-dealing characters of the Wire, instead of just seemingly having a different foe every episode or every season.

By the way, I forgot what Daniels dirt was. Did they even mention it?

[niko]

I don't exactly remember, but didn't all the guy basically say was Hank needed a warrant? Which is something that many average joes know already and is mentioned in these shows? Its not like it took some greatly educated person to know these things.
Yep, that's all he said. Don't you need a warrant?

[DonDadda59]

I don't exactly remember, but didn't all the guy basically say was Hank needed a warrant? Which is something that many average joes know already and is mentioned in these shows? Its not like it took some greatly educated person to know these things.


Yep, that's all he said. Don't you need a warrant?

Nope. He shows up just as Hank is about to pry open the door and bust Walt and Jesse. He asks if he has a warrant, Hank says he doesn't need one. Professor Joe goes into a spiel about probable cause and how the RV is a private domicile, not a vehicle, thereby protected by the 4th amendment against unlawful search and seizure. Then after Hank removes the tape exposing the bullet holes on the door, attorney Joe makes it clear that probable cause has to be readily apparent otherwise the charge would not hold up in court. These are the terms he actually used, I'm not dressing up the language.

Classic deus ex machina as a gimmick plot device. The unassuming old junkyard owner turns out to be a constitutional law expert when it's most convenient.

http://images.amcnetworks.com/blogs.amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/mt-legacy/breaking-bad/bb-s5-larry-hankin-interview-325.jpg

Muphuckin jack of all trades :applause:


:oldlol:

[guy]

Nope. He shows up just as Hank is about to pry open the door and bust Walt and Jesse. He asks if he has a warrant, Hank says he doesn't need one. Professor Joe goes into a spiel about probable cause and how the RV is a private domicile, not a vehicle, thereby protected by the 4th amendment against unlawful search and seizure. Then after Hank removes the tape exposing the bullet holes on the door, attorney Joe makes it clear that probable cause has to be readily apparent otherwise the charge would not hold up in court. These are the terms he actually used, I'm not dressing up the language.

Classic deus ex machina as a gimmick plot device. The unassuming old junkyard owner turns out to be a constitutional law expert when it's most convenient.

http://images.amcnetworks.com/blogs.amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/mt-legacy/breaking-bad/bb-s5-larry-hankin-interview-325.jpg

Muphuckin jack of all trades :applause:


:oldlol:

Well, I stand corrected then. With that said, law jargon aside, I don't think it takes a genius to know that an RV is considered a home as opposed to a vehicle in the law's eyes, especially if they are old and have been working with vehicles. But I stand corrected.

[Bless Mathews]

Good points. Well reasoned. Keyboard warrior much?

:roll:
You deleted my valid points ...

Straight herb ...

I thought you were at least 16.I was wrong...

[nightprowler10]

I wasn't trying to get that specific :cheers: I meant more in that setting with so many compelling characters and storylines around him. Obviously his approach and everyone else's approach as a result towards certain situations would be different. But imagine him going after Stringer, Avon, Wee-bey, Marlo, Chris, etc. Imagine his interactions with Wallace, D'Angelo, Bubbles, Bodie, Omar, etc. **** it, lets just put the whole Strike Team as their Drug Enforcement Unit replacing some of the cops on that show. This time though, they are up against the same drug-dealing characters of the Wire, instead of just seemingly having a different foe every episode or every season.

By the way, I forgot what Daniels dirt was. Did they even mention it?
No I know, I just started thinking down that path because I don't feel like working. They never explicitly talk about Daniels' dirt, which was to prove how Cedric was smart not to ruffle the feathers at the wrong time, but I think it was cash related. I think he says to his wife at one point that everybody was doing it and he didn't have a choice.

Also, I think a better comparison over the two shows is between Dutch and McNulty. Both great detectives with some issues (one much more dark than the other). The strike team would replace Kima, Herc, and Carver. I know you're comparing main characters, but yeah again, I don't feel like working.

[nightprowler10]

Nope. He shows up just as Hank is about to pry open the door and bust Walt and Jesse. He asks if he has a warrant, Hank says he doesn't need one. Professor Joe goes into a spiel about probable cause and how the RV is a private domicile, not a vehicle, thereby protected by the 4th amendment against unlawful search and seizure. Then after Hank removes the tape exposing the bullet holes on the door, attorney Joe makes it clear that probable cause has to be readily apparent otherwise the charge would not hold up in court. These are the terms he actually used, I'm not dressing up the language.

Classic deus ex machina as a gimmick plot device. The unassuming old junkyard owner turns out to be a constitutional law expert when it's most convenient.

http://images.amcnetworks.com/blogs.amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/mt-legacy/breaking-bad/bb-s5-larry-hankin-interview-325.jpg

Muphuckin jack of all trades :applause:


:oldlol:
I don't try to paint BB as realistic or anything, but that one isn't as far fetched as the other ones mentioned in this thread. Remember, this guy provides services to criminals while running a legit business. You absolutely have to know your **** when it comes to the law if you're going to be successful doing that. Hell, I'd have that **** memorized even if I didn't know what it really meant.

The one that always got my goat was the scene at Tuco's compound. That was the mother of all unrealistic events even if you ignore the fact that the chemistry doesn't work.

[guy]

I don't try to paint BB as realistic or anything, but that one isn't as far fetched as the other ones mentioned in this thread. Remember, this guy provides services to criminals while running a legit business. You absolutely have to know your **** when it comes to the law if you're going to be successful doing that. Hell, I'd have that **** memorized even if I didn't know what it really meant.


This is a very good point.

[guy]

I'll point out what I think was a plothole in the show. If I'm missing something, someone correct me. It has to do with the whole Tuco kidnapping Jesse and Walt, and Hank tracking them down.

So, Tuco kidnaps the two, Walt is missing. Skylar mentions the cell phone ringing and him taking the call before he vanishes. There's no record of the cell phone call. Hank, not mentioning it to Skylar, suspects a second cell phone and Walt's up to something shady, not something as serious as dealing with Meth, but at least an extramarital affair or something or something like that. Because of the weed buying relationship that the family knows Walt has with Jesse, Hank decides to look for Jesse, and finds out that he has some kind of GPS tracker in his car. So Hanks tracks down Jesse all the way to the dessert. Finds Tuco there with Jesse's car, with no Jesse or Walt around. Kills Tuco, finds Jesse's car with a ton of money. Then Hank calls it in and returns to town. They look for Jesse, and I don't remember the order, but I believe Walt returns back from his "fugue" state, and very shortly after, the cops find Jesse. Walt has no health issues that caused this "fugue" state. Because Hector won't rat, Hank and the DEA can't arrest Jesse implicate him for the unaccounted bag of money and has to accept Jesse's story that it was Tuco's money and Tuco must've stolen Jesse's car while Jesse was partying for three days at a motel, even though they don't believe it. Now if I'm not mistaken, Hank doesn't even ask Walt anything about this afterwards and his connection with Jesse, and then possibly a connection with Tuco, and even after telling the DEA why he was out in the dessert alone apprehending Tuco, the DEA doesn't ask the question either.

So, Hank already knows there's a connection between Walt and Jesse to the point that he'll track Jesse's car down to the desert just to look for Walt, he believes that Walt has a second cell phone and must be up to something shady, however minor it maybe, there is evidence to suggest his belief that there's a connection between Jesse and Tuco, then Walt and Jesse "coincidentally" show up back from there apparent disappearance from civilization around the same time, and Walt's disappearance doesn't suggest to be from any physical/mental issues. With all that, Hank doesn't even have one thought that Walt may have had some kind of encounter with Tuco and doesn't even ask him about it? If I'm not mistaken, he barely asks him anything about his whereabouts during that time. Now despite this evidence, maybe we could just write off Hank as a goofy, thickheaded, naive cop that would never think his own family and someone as soft and weak as Walt could ever be involved in anything worse then some weed or an affair. But then top of that, assuming he explains in detail the personal matters which resulted in him being there alone with Tuco, the DEA doesn't even ask the question.

Now like I said, maybe I'm missing something, maybe there were more conversations about this that I'm missing, so please correct me if I'm wrong. But if I'm right, thats a plothole that deserves criticism IMO.

[Sarcastic]

I agree that the Shield is better than Breaking Bad, but Game of Thrones is better than both. :pimp:

[niko]

I'll point out what I think was a plothole in the show. If I'm missing something, someone correct me. It has to do with the whole Tuco kidnapping Jesse and Walt, and Hank tracking them down.

So, Tuco kidnaps the two, Walt is missing. Skylar mentions the cell phone ringing and him taking the call before he vanishes. There's no record of the cell phone call. Hank, not mentioning it to Skylar, suspects a second cell phone and Walt's up to something shady, not something as serious as dealing with Meth, but at least an extramarital affair or something or something like that. Because of the weed buying relationship that the family knows Walt has with Jesse, Hank decides to look for Jesse, and finds out that he has some kind of GPS tracker in his car. So Hanks tracks down Jesse all the way to the dessert. Finds Tuco there with Jesse's car, with no Jesse or Walt around. Kills Tuco, finds Jesse's car with a ton of money. Then Hank calls it in and returns to town. They look for Jesse, and I don't remember the order, but I believe Walt returns back from his "fugue" state, and very shortly after, the cops find Jesse. Walt has no health issues that caused this "fugue" state. Because Hector won't rat, Hank and the DEA can't arrest Jesse implicate him for the unaccounted bag of money and has to accept Jesse's story that it was Tuco's money and Tuco must've stolen Jesse's car while Jesse was partying for three days at a motel, even though they don't believe it. Now if I'm not mistaken, Hank doesn't even ask Walt anything about this afterwards and his connection with Jesse, and then possibly a connection with Tuco, and even after telling the DEA why he was out in the dessert alone apprehending Tuco, the DEA doesn't ask the question either.

So, Hank already knows there's a connection between Walt and Jesse to the point that he'll track Jesse's car down to the desert just to look for Walt, he believes that Walt has a second cell phone and must be up to something shady, however minor it maybe, there is evidence to suggest his belief that there's a connection between Jesse and Tuco, then Walt and Jesse "coincidentally" show up back from there apparent disappearance from civilization around the same time, and Walt's disappearance doesn't suggest to be from any physical/mental issues. With all that, Hank doesn't even have one thought that Walt may have had some kind of encounter with Tuco and doesn't even ask him about it? If I'm not mistaken, he barely asks him anything about his whereabouts during that time. Now despite this evidence, maybe we could just write off Hank as a goofy, thickheaded, naive cop that would never think his own family and someone as soft and weak as Walt could ever be involved in anything worse then some weed or an affair. But then top of that, assuming he explains in detail the personal matters which resulted in him being there alone with Tuco, the DEA doesn't even ask the question.

Now like I said, maybe I'm missing something, maybe there were more conversations about this that I'm missing, so please correct me if I'm wrong. But if I'm right, thats a plothole that deserves criticism IMO.

You wanted him to ask his brother in law if he was at Tuco's place during the shootout even though he didn't see him or any evidence of him? You wanted him to make the leap that Walt knew this person who sold drugs, and Walt was using drugs, therefore Walt went away with the guy for a few days to distribute the drugs? That's not a good connection. For Hank to put those together and suspect someone who was close to the last person he'd ever suspect is ridiculous.

[guy]

You wanted him to ask his brother in law if he was at Tuco's place during the shootout even though he didn't see him or any evidence of him? You wanted him to make the leap that Walt knew this person who sold drugs, and Walt was using drugs, therefore Walt went away with the guy for a few days to distribute the drugs? That's not a good connection. For Hank to put those together and suspect someone who was close to the last person he'd ever suspect is ridiculous.

He already made a big enough leap that Jesse might know where Walt was to the point that he tracked Jesse's car and went all the way to the dessert for answers. And he happens to find the biggest drug dealer in town there. On top of that, he wasn't buying Walt's story that he was in a "fugue" state, and thought that Walt was up to something shady. I'm not saying he should've suspected Walt was dealing drugs. I'm just saying, he didn't even ask Walt any questions about his disappearance, despite going through all that to find him and risk his life in the process, when he wasn't really buying Walt's "fugue" state anyway. He knew of a connection between Walt and Jesse and thought they might be together, believed in and had possible evidence of a connection between Jesse and Tuco, and Jesse and Walt return from their disappearance around the same time, yet Hank doesn't even suspect Walt may have had an encounter with Tuco? And even with the biased view he may have of his brother-in-law, the rest of the DEA who wouldn't be as biased don't ask? Sorry, I don't think its ridiculous at all.

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't try to paint BB as realistic or anything, but that one isn't as far fetched as the other ones mentioned in this thread. Remember, this guy provides services to criminals while running a legit business. You absolutely have to know your **** when it comes to the law if you're going to be successful doing that. Hell, I'd have that **** memorized even if I didn't know what it really meant.

The one that always got my goat was the scene at Tuco's compound. That was the mother of all unrealistic events even if you ignore the fact that the chemistry doesn't work.
It wasn't just a memorization thing. Hank challenged him several times and he had a firm grasp on the intricacies of the law. Again, it's not just any one incident taken by itself which makes it unrealistic. It the number of times, at the very last moment, someone shows up or something happens which saves the main characters.


Like I said, there are plotholes, and there are some coincidences and unusual circumstances, but its overblown.

I'm not sure who's overblowing it. I already said I'm able to look past the obvious coincidences, plotholes, contrivances and unrealistic moments. If it was too out of hand, I wouldn't be able to watch it.

But, I also don't see any argument that this show can be called completely realistic. I don't even think it tries to be realistic. Like I said, it's more of a comic book come to life or old school serial and I think that's why people are drawn to it.

And, again... It's not about any one circumstance making the show unrealistic. It's all of the events taken in total. I mentioned a few off the top of my head and, yes, we can reason through each one of them and how they came to pass. They have pretty good writers and those guys aren't just going to have something happen which has no explanation at all (with the exception of a few sheer coincidences, like the guy in the bar meeting with Walt completely randomly the night he watched the guy's daughter die).

But when you take a step back and look at the number of times a main character was in a dire situation either with being killed or arrested and something happened at the very last moment to save them... It's just not plausible.

[nightprowler10]

It wasn't just a memorization thing. Hank challenged him several times and he had a firm grasp on the intricacies of the law. Again, it's not just any one incident taken by itself which makes it unrealistic. It the number of times, at the very last moment, someone shows up or something happens which saves the main characters.

Yup, no arguments there.

[gts]

I have not read the article, will do when I get home but I found this on my twitter feed

From start to finish, Breaking Bad has echoed the uncannily similar—and equally good—cop show The Shield

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2013/09/breaking_bad_finale_is_poised_to_echo_the_great_fx _show_the_shield.html

[HomieWeMajor]

Vic is Hank's brother
He will be starring in the final BB episode to kill Walt and Nazis then run off with his immunity.