No thread on the US Government shut down?

[Andrei89]

"muricaa!

:lol :lol

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/01/politics/government-shutdown/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[RobertdeMeijer]

The United States is in no position to cut back spending at the moment, especially the kind that the Tea Party is demanding.
Didn't the Republican party learn their lesson 17 years ago?

I feel sad for all those workers and the nation as a whole.

[Rolando]

It is embarrassing. The government simply isn't functioning anymore.

If the U.S. remains this divided for another 10 years or so, we will no longer be the most powerful country in the world.

Also, the Tea Party is a disgrace.

[rufuspaul]

We are a country with no leaders. The executive and legislative branches of our government are complete failures. It's happening at the state level too, at least in my state. Our only hope of moving forward as a civilized society now lies with the courts.

[n00bie]

"Although much of the federal workforce will go without pay, checks will keep coming to the 533 current members of Congress."

:facepalm

[East_Stone_Ya]

-- The local economy around Washington, D.C. is expected to lose some $200 million in economic activity for each day that the government is shut down.
-- Economist Mark Zandi has estimated that a short government shutdown, which would send more than 800,000 federal workers home, could shave about 0.3 percentage points off economic growth in the fourth quarter of 2013 (though the economy would likely bounce back in the following quarter). A more extended shutdown could do even more damage.


just pathetic :facepalm

more info about this shutdown here

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/30/absolutely-everything-you-need-to-know-about-how-the-government-shutdown-will-work/

[DukeDelonte13]

We are a country with no leaders. The executive and legislative branches of our government are complete failures. It's happening at the state level too, at least in my state. Our only hope of moving forward as a civilized society now lies with the courts.


nah its just congress.

Obamacare got passed by congress, approved by supreme court, and now congress is holding country hostage over it. Makes sense, right?

[rufuspaul]

nah its just congress.

Obamacare got passed by congress, approved by supreme court, and now congress is holding country hostage over it. Makes sense, right?


Obama's inability to work with the legislative branch and actually lead the nation is troubling on many levels.

[highwhey]

"Although much of the federal workforce will go without pay, checks will keep coming to the 533 current members of Congress."

:facepalm
How is this fcking fair? Complete bullsh1t.

[DukeDelonte13]

Obama's inability to work with the legislative branch and actually lead the nation is troubling on many levels.


he did work with the legi branch and it got passed.

[Jailblazers7]

nah its just congress.

Obamacare got passed by congress, approved by supreme court, and now congress is holding country hostage over it. Makes sense, right?

Yeah, this whole situation is pretty shameful.

[miller-time]

he did work with the legi branch and it got passed.

I saw this analogy on reddit before


Explain Like I'm Five: US Government Shutdown.

It's as if you owed your landlord rent, and you had space on your credit card, but a small child has your card and won't give it back unless you repeal some random healthcare legislation that was passed 3 years ago.

[Rolando]

Obama can't cave to this childish BS. If he does it sets a precedent.

The new Healthcare system should be debated, refined and improved as necessary but this is not the way to do it.

[rezznor]

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1383435_761415507221238_160756578_n.jpg

[rezznor]

Repubs dodging questions when asked if they are willing to give up their salary during the shutdown that they instigated.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H3WQbupuww

[longhornfan1234]

Obama's inability to work with the legislative branch and actually lead the nation is troubling on many levels.
:roll:

Republicans only position was to defund Obamacare. That's not exactly a defensible negotiating position. I don't mind Obama not bending over like Bubba would.

[n00bie]

How is this fcking fair? Complete bullsh1t.


Yep, so the individuals that decided to take everyone off their jobs continues to get paid. Ridiculous.

[highwhey]

Repubs dodging questions when asked if they are willing to give up their salary during the shutdown that they instigated.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H3WQbupuww
Scumbags

[Patrick Chewing]

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1383435_761415507221238_160756578_n.jpg


Repped :oldlol:

[rufuspaul]

:roll:

Republicans only position was to defund Obamacare. That's not exactly a defensible negotiating position. I don't mind Obama not bending over like Bubba would.


I don't condone what the Tea Party has done but Obama isn't coming out looking like a very effective leader atm. At least this is taking attention away from Putin owning his ass over Syria.

[KevinNYC]

Obama's inability to work with the legislative branch and actually lead the nation is troubling on many levels.
this is known as the green lantern theory of politics. If you have the will you will be able to change the world. http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/05/03/18041975-the-green-lantern-theory-runs-rampant?lite

[rufuspaul]

this is known as the green lantern theory of politics. If you have the will you will be able to change the world. http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/05/03/18041975-the-green-lantern-theory-runs-rampant?lite


I'm sure Rachel Maddow can solve all the world's problems if rich white men would just get out of her way.

[KevinNYC]

Well that blog is written by a white man. Dunno how rich he is.

but the idea that both sides are to blame is just silly. It ignores the fact that the radical wing of the Republican party has been bragging they were going to shutdown the government because it would give them maximum leverage. If Boehner allowed a clean bill funding the government toxins to the floor, it would pass by a large margin

[rufuspaul]

Well that blog is written by a white man. Dunno how rich he is.

but the idea that both sides are to blame is just silly. It ignores the fact that the radical wing of the Republican party has been bragging they were going to shutdown the government because it would give them maximum leverage. If Boehner allowed a clean bill funding the government toxins to the floor, it would pass by a large margin


The Tea Party has no sense of even recent history (the 26-day shutdown in 1996). If anything positive comes out of this nonsense it most surely will be the demise of this radical wing of the Republican party. Doesn't change how I feel about the man at the top never taking responsibility for anything. Like I said before at least this is taking attention away from his mishandling of foreign affairs.

[ItsMillerTime]

So when are we, the People, going to take back our country from the greedy, corrupt bureaucrats that are nose-diving this nation into the ground? What is the tipping point?

[rufuspaul]

So when are we, the People, going to take back our country from the greedy, corrupt bureaucrats that are nose-diving this nation into the ground? What is the tipping point?


I'm thinking we need a benevolent dictator. Seriously.

[Derka]

Not one of these people should be eligible for re-election.

[Inactive]

I'm thinking we need a benevolent dictator. Seriously.That would be good for a generation. Unfortunately our children would be stuck with Tiberius, and Caligula.

[Bandito]

Well thanks to that I didn't go to Work today. Thanks OBama!!!!

[KevinNYC]

The Tea Party has no sense of even recent history (the 26-day shutdown in 1996). If anything positive comes out of this nonsense it most surely will be the demise of this radical wing of the Republican party. Doesn't change how I feel about the man at the top never taking responsibility for anything. Like I said before at least this is taking attention away from his mishandling of foreign affairs.

A reporter asked one of the House radicals to respond to another Republican who mentioned how badly the shutdown hurt the Republicans in 1996, and said he wasn't going to talk about "last century wisdom."

[raiderfan19]

The republicans just don't get it. They really don't. They are talking today about how they can't understand why the dems won't do the parts of the govt that the repubs and the dems both want to fund in separate piecemeal votes.

Of course the dems won't do that, that's just a long ass way of doing the exact same thing you already tried and failed to do. Please lord let the tea party end.

[secund2nun]

While both parties are pretty much the same at the top unfortunately, the death of the Republican party would help America become more progressive. We really need a single payer system just like every other first world nation on earth. Obamacare has many flaws, but it is a first step toward a single payer system. Ultimately we also need to move to a system of free college as well just like Australia has. This can only be done by the Republican party dying, which is happening over time.

[raiderfan19]

We actually don't need that.

The simplest thing to fix about healthcare would have been to simply implement regulations that insurance couldn't drop people who were already covered due to health concerns. That wouldn't have fixed everything but it would have helped

[HarryCallahan]

While both parties are pretty much the same at the top unfortunately, the death of the Republican party would help America become more progressive. We really need a single payer system just like every other first world nation on earth. Obamacare has many flaws, but it is a first step toward a single payer system. Ultimately we also need to move to a system of free college as well just like Australia has. This can only be done by the Republican party dying, which is happening over time.

:facepalm

Australia: 20mil
US: 350+mil

[Lebron23]

He's still going to the Philippines.

[secund2nun]

:facepalm

Australia: 20mil
US: 350+mil

And your point is? Stop using the typical American "scared of what you don't know" logic. Australia is not the country with free college. Brazil has free college and 201 million people live there. It would work with America as well, but unfortunately America is fully of materialistic gluttons. But we are finally working toward a single payer health care system and eventually we will have free college imo.

[HarryCallahan]

And your point is? Stop using the typical American "scared of what you don't know" logic. Australia is not the country with free college. Brazil has free college and 201 million people live there. It would work with America as well, but unfortunately America is fully of materialistic gluttons. But we are finally working toward a single payer health care system and eventually we will have free college imo.

"free college" :rolleyes:

Somebody has to be the janitor or trashman. Giving everyone a "free" college degree just distorts their value. Single payer would be more effective than Obamacare, but is still a bad option.

[DuMa]

Well thanks to that I didn't go to Work today. Thanks OBama!!!!

me too so i just watched Community all day long. Thanks gubernet

[Patrick Chewing]

While both parties are pretty much the same at the top unfortunately, the death of the Republican party would help America become more progressive. We really need a single payer system just like every other first world nation on earth. Obamacare has many flaws, but it is a first step toward a single payer system. Ultimately we also need to move to a system of free college as well just like Australia has. This can only be done by the Republican party dying, which is happening over time.


A fantasy world dreamed up by those most delusional of individuals. The world was built by might. We may all be created equal in body, but we are not all equal in mind and desire.

[ihoopallday]

:( I'm not getting my GI bill money this month for school payments because of this shutdown. Now I gotta pay out of pocket. But that's no big deal compared to families who depend on their income from government jobs. Hope this ends soon.

[Balla_Status]

Private business shut down all the time.

[Fresh Kid]

u cant believe those type of people,they dont care and dont give a damn about us. period. point blank. end of freaking story.:coleman:

[Balla_Status]

OP is obsessed with America. As is the rest of the world.

[JtotheIzzo]

OP is obsessed with America. As is the rest of the world.

America is in everybody's business.



Back to the OP, I think fatigue and apathy has set in, there was a lot of fun last decade with the rise of the internet and everyone opining, there were also great characters and storylines (Bush, Cheney, 9/11, conspiracy, Obama etc.)...

but now this is reality:

the government is only in it to win the next election
the right sucks
the left sucks
truly talented people want nothing to do with public service
big interests have too much influence
Obama is no different than Bush
conspiracy theorists were the biggest conspirators
the regular man can't make a difference
the rich are getting rich, the poor are growing in numbers
the mechanisms are falling into place where the free world is no longer free (but it doesn't really matter and has no effect on 99% of people, so they don't care)
'free' countries start wars and kill innocent people on the premise of protecting innocent people

everyone is properly distracted, it is the best of times but it may also be the worst of time.

be your own boss, that is all I can say.

[Andrei89]

OP is obsessed with America. As is the rest of the world.

How am I obsessed?

I just made this thread. Are you mad?

[Jakeh008]

"free college" :rolleyes:

Somebody has to be the janitor or trashman. Giving everyone a "free" college degree just distorts their value. Single payer would be more effective than Obamacare, but is still a bad option.


There will still be a lot of people that will drop out of HS/College and do the lower jobs.

The value of the degree would go down because more people would have it but it would force more people to go for even higher degrees.

That would be a good thing if the school system wasn't such a joke.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

Would now be a good time to stage a revolution?

[rufuspaul]

A reporter asked one of the House radicals to respond to another Republican who mentioned how badly the shutdown hurt the Republicans in 1996, and said he wasn't going to talk about "last century wisdom."


:facepalm We are fukked.

[MavsSuperFan]

:facepalm We are fukked.
We will be fine

wall street and the chamber of commerce is pro obamacare overall.

The talk about removing the individual mandate scares the shit out of the insurance companies.

The corporate media is going to ether the GOP on this one, because they have moved so extreme right that they scare the rich now.

Wall street and the chamber of commerce and the big banks are not going to let us fail to raise the debt ceiling.

The grand bargain is going to be forced upon the tea party.

I would be scared if you were seeing the chamber of commerce supporting this shutdown, but they arent.

[riseagainst]

George Washington warned us about the consequences of political parties 216 years ago. No one has listened till this day. :oldlol:

[bagelred]

Saw this posted in a comments section...this kinda sums up what's happening:


My Republican MOL sent me this in my feed today. They are moderate, Republican retired, Army vets. The fact that they are having problems with this, speaks volumes!

"Imagine that the company you work for held a poll, and asked everyone if they thought it would be a good idea to put a soda machine in the break room. The poll came back, and the majority of your colleagues said "Yes", indicating that they would like a soda machine. Some said no, but the majority said yes. So, a week later, there's a soda machine. Now imagine that Bill in accounting voted against the soda machine. He has a strong hatred for caffeinated soft drinks, thinks they are bad you you, whatever. He campaigns throughout the office to get the machine removed. Well, management decides "OK, we'll ask again" and again, the majority of people say "Yes, lets keep the soda machine." Bill continues to campaign, and management continues to ask the employees, and every time, the answer is in favor of the soda machine. This happens, lets say... 35 times. Eventually, Bill says "OK, I'M NOT PROCESSING PAYROLL ANYMORE UNTIL THE SODA MACHINE IS REMOVED", so nobody will get paid unless management removes the machine. What should we do???


Answer: Fire Bill and get someone who will do the ****ing job.

Bonus: Bill tells everyone that he was willing to "Negotiate", to come to a solution where everyone got their payroll checks, but only so long as that negotiation capitulated to his demand to remove the soda machine.

Bill is a ****ing jackass." -Brian Krewson"

[Jailblazers7]

Good column by Ross Douthat about one of the underlying motives of the GOP. It is a generous take on the intentions of the GOP stubbornness but I think it is an important motive to consider.

http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/why-the-right-fights/?_r=0

[Derka]

Another fun fact about this: GOP is throwing any chance at the White House in 2016 completely in the shitter.

[Rose]

Dems now have 20 republicans ready to sign a bill. 3 more than necessary, but Boehner wants to pout.:cry: :cry:


:rolleyes:

[HarryCallahan]

The corporate media is going to ether the GOP on this one, because they have moved so extreme right that they scare the rich now.


:facepalm

So wanting the government to be slightly less involved in health care is "extreme right" now?

[HarryCallahan]

There will still be a lot of people that will drop out of HS/College and do the lower jobs.

The value of the degree would go down because more people would have it but it would force more people to go for even higher degrees.

That would be a good thing if the school system wasn't such a joke.

And spend another 4-6 years in indoctrination centres being unproductive.

Higher education needs to be geared towards technical things like engineering and medicine. Not things like IT and computer science that plenty of 14y.olds are perfectly capable of learning themselves.

[rezznor]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1382318/original.jpg

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1384702/thumbs/o-NY-DAILY-NEWS-570.jpg

[DCL]

putin or that north korean fat boy must be laughing his ass off.

[KevinNYC]

Dems now have 20 republicans ready to sign a bill. 3 more than necessary, but Boehner wants to pout.:cry: :cry:


:rolleyes:

Way more Republicans than that are ready to sign a bill. The 20 Republicans you mention are the ones who are willing to publicly come out for funding the government before the Leadership allows a vote. The reporter who is very well-connected with Republicans estimates 175 Republicans would vote to fund the government (http://washingtonexaminer.com/how-30-house-republicans-are-forcing-the-obamacare-fight/article/2536611)if they let them vote on it. Conversely, it's only a couple dozen Republicans who are really driving this fight. That's how ridiculous this whole thing is.


There are 233 Republicans in the House. Insiders estimate that three-quarters of them, or about 175 GOP lawmakers, are willing, and perhaps even eager, to vote for a continuing resolution that funds the government without pressing the Republican goal of defunding or delaying Obamacare.

On the other side, insiders estimate about 30 House Republicans believe strongly that Obamacare is such a far-reaching and harmful law that the GOP should do everything it can --- everything --- to stop it or slow it down. That includes precipitating a standoff leading to a government shutdown. "This isn't just another bill," Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn., one of the most vocal of the 30, told me. "This isn't load limits on turnip trucks that we're talking about. This is ... an extremely consequential bill that will impact every American, and that's why you have such passionate opinions."

Another 20 to 30 GOP members sympathize with that position but might be willing to compromise, except for the fact that they fear a primary challenge from the Right.

In the continuing resolution fight, it is the 30 most committed members, along with their 20-30 allies in the next-most-committed group, who are setting the House Republican agenda. The ones pushing for a fight over Obamacare, even if it leads to a shutdown, are controlling what the House does.

Which has led to the question: How can 30 Republicans beat 200 Republicans? How does that work?

[Derka]

Michelle Bachmann opens her mouth and the nation weakens.

[MavsSuperFan]

:facepalm

So wanting the government to be slightly less involved in health care is "extreme right" now?

The free market is the best allocator of resources for 99% of things, but since the free market is based on the profit motive it can lead to destructive outcomes to allow health insurance to be distributed by the free market.

Quite frankly I support single payer universal health care. I would have preferred just to expand medicare to all citizens.

The affordable care act (ACA) is actually quite a conservative bill. It primarily achieves greater coverage by mandating people buy health insurance. it eliminates the free rider problem and encourages preventive care.

I am not a fan of the ACA, but it was passed by the house, passed by the senate and signed into law by the president,

Later when the GOP took over the house they failed to repeal the ACA. the ACA survived a constitutional challenge in the supreme court. IIRC the supreme court ruled that the mandates were essentially a tax increase and therefore constitutional.

President Obama ran on the ACA, he embraced the term obamacare during his campaign. And guess what he won.

The republicans also failed to capture supermajorities in the house and senate so they cant override the president.

The ACA is law whether we like it or not. If the GOP doesn't like that, they can try to convince their colleagues to vote to repeal it. Failing to do that they can try to win enough seats to repeal it in 2014.

What they cant do, and what makes them extreme is to threaten to shutdown the government and blackmail obama into repealing the ACA. There are tons of laws I dont like. You cant threaten to crash the country just to get your way.

[HarryCallahan]

Bachmann gets a lot of unnecessary criticism. She at least genuinely believes what she's saying, unlike a lot of her party contemporaries who stake out these positions in order to win elections, keep their cushy jobs and enormous pay/pension packets and suck the public dry like the leeches they are.

[MavsSuperFan]

Bachmann gets a lot of unnecessary criticism. She at least genuinely believes what she's saying, unlike a lot of her party contemporaries who stake out these positions in order to win elections, keep their cushy jobs and enormous pay/pension packets and suck the public dry like the leeches they are.

So does the homeless guy that professes that the end times are coming.

She gets her facts wrong constantly.

So you support threatening to shutdown the government and/or defaulting on our loans as a legitimate way to pass laws?

[HarryCallahan]

The free market is the best allocator of resources for 99% of things, but since the free market is based on the profit motive it can lead to destructive outcomes to allow health insurance to be distributed by the free market.

Quite frankly I support single payer universal health care. I would have preferred just to expand medicare to all citizens.

The affordable care act (ACA) is actually quite a conservative bill. It primarily achieves greater coverage by mandating people buy health insurance. it eliminates the free rider problem and encourages preventive care.

I am not a fan of the ACA, but it was passed by the house, passed by the senate and signed into law by the president,

Later when the GOP took over the house they failed to repeal the ACA. the ACA survived a constitutional challenge in the supreme court. IIRC the supreme court ruled that the mandates were essentially a tax increase and therefore constitutional.

President Obama ran on the ACA, he embraced the term obamacare during his campaign. And guess what he won.

The republicans also failed to capture supermajorities in the house and senate so they cant override the president.

The ACA is law whether we like it or not. If the GOP doesn't like that, they can try to convince their colleagues to vote to repeal it. Failing to do that they can try to win enough seats to repeal it in 2014.

What they cant do, and what makes them extreme is to threaten to shutdown the government and blackmail obama into repealing the ACA. There are tons of laws I dont like. You cant threaten to crash the country just to get your way.

Okay, the GOP are d!cks- not exactly a ground-breaking revelation. That doesn't explain how they've moved further to the right. :confusedshrug:

[HarryCallahan]

So does the homeless guy that professes that the end times are coming.

She gets her facts wrong constantly.

So you support threatening to shutdown the government and/or defaulting on our loans as a legitimate way to pass laws?

Nope, i'm not sure why you'd say that. :confusedshrug:
I'm just saying that regardless of her bat-sh!t crazy opinions, she actually is a nice honest lady.

[gigantes]

those... BAS (http://clothesonfilm.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/The-Big-Lebowski_KB_John-Goodman_fishing-vest.bmp.jpg)tards!

...

but seriously what's the worst that could happen as a result of this fiasco?


i eat doom-n'-gloom predictions as part of a daily balanced meal... it's okay to tell me. :)

[Balla_Status]

Well that blog is written by a white man. Dunno how rich he is.

but the idea that both sides are to blame is just silly. It ignores the fact that the radical wing of the Republican party has been bragging they were going to shutdown the government because it would give them maximum leverage. If Boehner allowed a clean bill funding the government toxins to the floor, it would pass by a large margin

This has been the Democrats plan all along. Pass something that doesn't really work that well and get republicans pissed off. Do something absurd (like government shut down) and piss off the rest of America. Now in a few years the democrats can claim the ACA doesn't work that well and need to go to a universal health care system and tax the rich to pay for it. You can convince pissed off people much easier.

[TheMan]

The GOP are handing the Dems the WH on a silver platter:oldlol:

[HarryCallahan]

The GOP are handing the Dems the WH on a silver platter:oldlol:

They already have it. :confusedshrug:

[MaxFly]

A few things.

The House has the votes necessary to pass a clean CR. If the budget the Senate sent back to the house was brought to the floor, it would pass with a majority vote and the President would sign it. The problem is that John Boehner won't allow a vote on that budget. He knows it would pass and he is fully aware that the ensuing rage from the 35 or so Ted Cruz House Republicans would mean the end of his speakership.

However, I think this is more than an attempt to save his speakership and standing; quite frankly, he must know by now that this is a lose-lose situation. I think part of this is that he is allowing this process to play out in order to gin up public outrage towards the extreme elements in his party as a means of marginalizing their influence moving forward. This is all to the detriment of the country and it's economy of course, but Boehner is pretty powerless at this point. At some point, he's going to have to do the right thing. Hopefully sooner than later.

Now, I've seen a poster or two mention that Putin owned Obama. Does someone care to elaborate on that Republican talking point? This perspective may have been developed independently, but when someone is saying the same thing as Rush Limbaugh, he/she is going to have to explain...

[KeylessEntry]

This has been the Democrats plan all along. Pass something that doesn't really work that well and get republicans pissed off. Do something absurd (like government shut down) and piss off the rest of America. Now in a few years the democrats can claim the ACA doesn't work that well and need to go to a universal health care system and tax the rich to pay for it. You can convince pissed off people much easier.


You dont need to "tax the rich" to pay for universal healthcare. 1/3 of all US federal spending already going to medicare and medicaid, meanwhile other developed countries such as Australia or the UK only spend ~1/6 of their budget on healthcare. These other countries arent paying for weak ass subsidies like the US system does, they are actually paying for universal coverage for all, and doing it for a fraction of the cost. If we adopted the UK model we could have universal healthcare, plus the hundreds of billions per year that had previously been wasted on medicare and medicaid.

What the US needs to do is regulate the health industry:

1. Drug and medical device prices need to be capped. The reason drugs are so cheap in places like Latin America and Europe is because almost every country on this planet has passed laws regulating the price of drugs. A company is simply not allowed to charge $500 per dose of cancer meds in neighboring Mexico or Canada, why we allow it in the states is completely beyond me. Americans are basically subsidizing healthcare (R&D costs and such) for the rest of the world when we pay 50x as much for the identical drug.

2. Private Health Insurance companies are parasites on the system. These guys syphon money out of the middle while adding zero actual value in terms of health and wellness. In fact their financial incentives encourage them to withold care, reducing health and wellness, whenever possible. Most countries have no need for private health insurance, because when healthcare costs are based in reality insurance companies have little reason to exist.

I strongly dislike Obamacare, but not for any reason you hear the TV pundits trashing it - It reinforces a broken system by providing a massive subsidy to the people who need it least - the private health insurers. The law makes Americans decide between buying a broken product from a company that should not even exist, or paying a fine.

[TheReturn]

Jon Stewart is a boss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjZJkgXTIRU)
:applause:

[bagelred]

Another fun fact about this: GOP is throwing any chance at the White House in 2016 completely in the shitter.

Not true at all. It doesn't matter how much the GOP f-cks the people over, they still come back. Plus Americans have short memories.

[Ass Dan]

No one is 'throwing away' any shot at the white house. Most people vote the same each time out and then the rest vote for who is more likeable. If the GOP rolls out someone likeable (like a 2000 Bush) they will take back the house. They just need to shut their trap about women, rape and poor people for a while.

This whole mess is because of John Boner (yes I know), that orange, megalomaniac piece of shit is only out for his and gives nary a f*ck about our country.

Obamacare should be a single payer program, that is the only way these things work. The way it is right now, it sucks.

Our country is becoming ass, and not in a good way like me, we NEED a third party to mark a shift in where public opinion and common sense are meeting because right now, neither the elephant or the jackass are repping too many people, furrealdoe.

[Thorpesaurous]

Has anyone seen any appreciable impact? Mail is still coming. Trash is still being picked up.

I work in an industry where I have in fact seen some things. I work in Aerospace. A great deal of my work goes to Defense contracts. Most of it hasn't seen much downturn, but the flight critical parts, which require a government inspector to come in and review prior to shipment, or sometimes even in process, have been shut down, so I have some work that's completely stalled.

[Rolando]

You dont need to "tax the rich" to pay for universal healthcare. 1/3 of all US federal spending already going to medicare and medicaid, meanwhile other developed countries such as Australia or the UK only spend ~1/6 of their budget on healthcare. These other countries arent paying for weak ass subsidies like the US system does, they are actually paying for universal coverage for all, and doing it for a fraction of the cost. If we adopted the UK model we could have universal healthcare, plus the hundreds of billions per year that had previously been wasted on medicare and medicaid.

What the US needs to do is regulate the health industry:

1. Drug and medical device prices need to be capped. The reason drugs are so cheap in places like Latin America and Europe is because almost every country on this planet has passed laws regulating the price of drugs. A company is simply not allowed to charge $500 per dose of cancer meds in neighboring Mexico or Canada, why we allow it in the states is completely beyond me. Americans are basically subsidizing healthcare (R&D costs and such) for the rest of the world when we pay 50x as much for the identical drug.

2. Private Health Insurance companies are parasites on the system. These guys syphon money out of the middle while adding zero actual value in terms of health and wellness. In fact their financial incentives encourage them to withold care, reducing health and wellness, whenever possible. Most countries have no need for private health insurance, because when healthcare costs are based in reality insurance companies have little reason to exist.

I strongly dislike Obamacare, but not for any reason you hear the TV pundits trashing it - It reinforces a broken system by providing a massive subsidy to the people who need it least - the private health insurers. The law makes Americans decide between buying a broken product from a company that should not even exist, or paying a fine.

You nailed it pretty well.

[gts]

"Although much of the federal workforce will go without pay, checks will keep coming to the 533 current members of Congress."

:facepalm

It's actually in the constitution that they cannot stop their pay... They even tried to suspend it Sunday Night but the senate wouldn't even look at the bill.

[rezznor]

Has anyone seen any appreciable impact? Mail is still coming. Trash is still being picked up.

I work in an industry where I have in fact seen some things. I work in Aerospace. A great deal of my work goes to Defense contracts. Most of it hasn't seen much downturn, but the flight critical parts, which require a government inspector to come in and review prior to shipment, or sometimes even in process, have been shut down, so I have some work that's completely stalled.
i probably won't be able to visit ground zero or the MoMA when i'm in nyc this weekend so i'm gonna be pissed about that...

[rufuspaul]

Now, I've seen a poster or two mention that Putin owned Obama. Does someone care to elaborate on that Republican talking point? This perspective may have been developed independently, but when someone is saying the same thing as Rush Limbaugh, he/she is going to have to explain...


It's not a Republican talking point, it's a fact. Obama tried to form a coalition to storm into Syria and he couldn't even get the British to go along. Meanwhile Putin comes out looking like a peace-loving diplomat and our Peace Prize winning president looks like a war-mongering idiot.

[KevinNYC]

Has anyone seen any appreciable impact? Mail is still coming. Trash is still being picked up.

I work in an industry where I have in fact seen some things. I work in Aerospace. A great deal of my work goes to Defense contracts. Most of it hasn't seen much downturn, but the flight critical parts, which require a government inspector to come in and review prior to shipment, or sometimes even in process, have been shut down, so I have some work that's completely stalled.

The post office runs off its own budget. Unless you live in DC, I don't think the Federal Government is involved in picking up trash.

[GOBB]

Has anyone seen any appreciable impact? Mail is still coming.

We are self funded.

[KevinNYC]

i probably won't be able to visit ground zero or the MoMA when i'm in nyc this weekend so i'm gonna be pissed about that...
I don't know about ground zero, but MoMA is not a federal museum.

I don't think Ground Zero would be affected either....the Statue of Liberty definitely is shut down, that's the one they have been mentioning on the news here.

[rezznor]

I don't know about ground zero, but MoMA is not a federal museum.

I don't think Ground Zero would be affected either....the Statue of Liberty definitely is shut down, that's the one they have been mentioning on the news here.


good, i hope not. I just keep hearing how all the places in DC are shut down so I assumed nyc would be too. thanks for the heads up

[KevinNYC]

It's not a Republican talking point, it's a fact. Obama tried to form a coalition to storm into Syria and he couldn't even get the British to go along. Meanwhile Putin comes out looking like a peace-loving diplomat and our Peace Prize winning president looks like a war-mongering idiot.

It's not really a fact either.

In Britain, a lot of the votes against action were because the evidence/UN support wasn't in place yet. The opposition party supported intervention if "compelling" evidence that the regime was responsible for chemical attacks was demonstrated and if the UN was involved. Since the British vote was in August, so it might have been a different vote after the UN chemical weapons made their report in September, but that's a minor point.

The major point is the Russians made their proposal, because they believed Obama was sincere that military action was ONLY due to Syrian Government's use of chemical weapons AND not a pretext for an invasion with regime change, a la Iraq.
Once Russia and Syria were assured by Kerry that this was about the use of chemical weapons then they said that "diplomacy was not exhausted" and the Russians forced Assad to give up his chemical weapons.

So this never would have come about if
A. there was a compelling threat of military force
B. this threat was limited to the use of chemical weapons, not the larger Syrian civil war.

How that makes Putin look "peace-loving" is beyond me, they are basically protecting their client to continue fighting the civil war, a war where the basic strategy has been ethnically cleansing the areas around Damascus to create a Alawite stronghold. (This is why the chemcial attack on August 21st occurred in the first place.) Russia is still supplying Syria with weapons, here's an order form from last month (http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/wp-content/uploads/SAR-Rosoboronexport-letter.pdf) for 20,000 AK's and 20 million rounds of ammunition. Russia has shot down several resolutions at the UN to resolve the Syria crisis peacefully.

When Putin stops sending attack helicopters like these to Assad, maybe your point might stand up to the slightest scrutiny.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02276/Mi-25Helicopter_2276164b.jpg

Meanwhile the historic international taboo on chemical weapons has been upheld and the US goal of getting Syria to give theirs up has started. (http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/chemical-weapons-inspectors-face-historic-mission-in-syria-1.1480147)

[KevinNYC]

good, i hope not. I just keep hearing how all the places in DC are shut down so I assumed nyc would be too. thanks for the heads up

PM me if you advice on where to go.

[rufuspaul]

It's not really a fact either.

In Britain, a lot of the votes against action were because the evidence/UN support wasn't in place yet. The opposition party supported intervention if "compelling" evidence that the regime was responsible for chemical attacks was demonstrated and if the UN was involved. Since the British vote was in August, so it might have been a different vote after the UN chemical weapons made their report in September, but that's a minor point.

The major point is the Russians made their proposal, because they believed Obama was sincere that military action was ONLY due to Syrian Government's use of chemical weapons AND not a pretext for an invasion with regime change, a la Iraq.
Once Russia and Syria were assured by Kerry that this was about the use of chemical weapons then they said that "diplomacy was not exhausted" and the Russians forced Assad to give up his chemical weapons.

So this never would have come about if
A. there was a compelling threat of military force
B. this threat was limited to the use of chemical weapons, not the larger Syrian civil war.

How that makes Putin look "peace-loving" is beyond me, they are basically protecting their client to continue fighting the civil war, a war where the basic strategy has been ethnically cleansing the areas around Damascus to create a Alawite stronghold. (This is why the chemcial attack on August 21st occurred in the first place.) Russia is still supplying Syria with weapons, here's an order form from last month (http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/wp-content/uploads/SAR-Rosoboronexport-letter.pdf) for 20,000 AK's and 20 million rounds of ammunition. Russia has shot down several resolutions at the UN to resolve the Syria crisis peacefully.

When Putin stops sending attack helicopters like these to Assad, maybe your point might stand up to the slightest scrutiny.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02276/Mi-25Helicopter_2276164b.jpg

Meanwhile the historic international taboo on chemical weapons has been upheld and the US goal of getting Syria to give theirs up has started. (http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/chemical-weapons-inspectors-face-historic-mission-in-syria-1.1480147)


It's not what I think, it's how Putin spun it to the rest of the world. Putin-1, Obama-0. And like you said the war goes on just like the Russians want it to.

[rufuspaul]

PM me if you advice on where to go.


Thanks for all the advice when I was there last weekend. :rolleyes:

JK

[TheMan]

They already have it. :confusedshrug:
I meant for the next presidential election...

[CeltsGarlic]

Its not a problem in real life. Only bad thing is the image and reputation going down.

For US, when you think about it, nothing matters what happens inside America. You belong to China and, to some extent Saudi Arabia.

[KevinNYC]

It's not what I think, it's how Putin spun it to the rest of the world. Putin-1, Obama-0. And like you said the war goes on just like the Russians want it to.

So why believe Putin's spin? Why repeat it and cite it as evidence?

What did America (or as you put it Obama) lose?

I seriously don't understand how getting Syria agreeing to join the Chemical Weapons Protocol and destroying their weapons is not an achievement. How getting Russia and China to support this at the UN Security Council is not an achievement.

[KevinNYC]

Thanks for all the advice when I was there last weekend. :rolleyes:

JK
Dude you had my number....or screenname or whatever.

Where did you go?

I just made to Pok Pok t (http://www.pokpokny.com/videos)he other day which was crazy good. Jump to 1:45.

I had tried once before and there was a two hour wait. Very delicious, but while I waited online I had to listen to these idiots behind me who had just made their first trip to Brooklyn and listen to them blather about how Brooklyn's population is second to Manhattan's and how half of Brooklyn is ghetto. No and No.

[KevinNYC]

You belong to China and, to some extent Saudi Arabia.

You don't understand how trade works, do you?

[CeltsGarlic]

You don't understand how trade works, do you?

You dont also, dont you?

Please elaborate. What do they get in advance?

[rufuspaul]

Dude you had my number....or screenname or whatever.

Where did you go?

I just made to Pok Pok t (http://www.pokpokny.com/videos)he other day which was crazy good. Jump to 1:45.

I had tried once before and there was a two hour wait. Very delicious, but while I waited online I had to listen to these idiots behind me who had just made their first trip to Brooklyn and listen to them blather about how Brooklyn's population is second to Manhattan's and how half of Brooklyn is ghetto. No and No.

:oldlol: It was a quick trip primarily in order to take my daughter to see Matilda on Broadway. Stayed in Murray Hill and walked up to the UN. Crazy security up there.

[CeltsGarlic]

The moment china stops buying Dollars and Saudi Arabia understands that US Dollar is not good enough as the main currency for oil its over. I think that there is somewhat of a contract tho, but one guy who is pretty deep in this business told me that there is some flaws and there might be a new currency just for the oil. I can not confirm it with links, sorry.

US could not go argentina style without paying the dept or inflate their way out of it...Only option is taxes and reversing roles with China as cheap third world country and cheap stuff supplier.. Europe is pretty similar.

[KevinNYC]

You dont also, dont you?

Please elaborate. What do they get in advance?

Both partners benefit from trade.

If China or Saudi Arabia didn't sell to us, their economies would collapse pretty much.....so is that owning us? Or do both sides get something out of the deal?

[KevinNYC]

This was when the UN was in session? Yeah, pretty heavy.

Good Indian food near Murray Hill. Over in Curry Hill.

[bagelred]

Bachmann gets a lot of unnecessary criticism. She at least genuinely believes what she's saying, unlike a lot of her party contemporaries who stake out these positions in order to win elections, keep their cushy jobs and enormous pay/pension packets and suck the public dry like the leeches they are.

Agreed. Michelle Bachmann is CERTIFIABLY crazy. She's not just PANDERING to the crazies, like alot of other politicians.

You gotta respect that. :cheers:

[rufuspaul]

So why believe Putin's spin? Why repeat it and cite it as evidence?

What did America (or as you put it Obama) lose?

I seriously don't understand how getting Syria agreeing to join the Chemical Weapons Protocol and destroying their weapons is not an achievement. How getting Russia and China to support this at the UN Security Council is not an achievement.

It's not just me.


Poll: Americans disapprove of how Obama is handling Syria, Iran (http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/politics/diplomacy/130924/poll-obama-syria-iran-foreign-policy)


With poor ratings on handling Syria Obama's approval worst in over a year (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/09/with-poor-ratings-on-handling-syria-obamas-approval-worst-in-over-a-year/)


Americans have negative view of Obama on Syria, Iran (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57604432/poll-americans-have-negative-view-of-obama-on-syria-iran/)

[rufuspaul]

This was when the UN was in session? Yeah, pretty heavy.

Good Indian food near Murray Hill. Over in Curry Hill.

Yeah, saw some jets at JFK surrounded by police cars and black limos too. Pretty cool. Didn't eat Indian but had some great food at a Belgian/German place. Lots of great restaurants in that neighborhood.

[CeltsGarlic]

Both partners benefit from trade.

If China or Saudi Arabia didn't sell to us, their economies would collapse pretty much.....so is that owning us? Or do both sides get something out of the deal?

Yep, pretty much its true, but china is out growing US and starting to outsmart them too, and United States would still have to buy their oil from Saudi Arabia.
If you ask me, I think thats why US is heavily pushing them into middle east where the oil is..they are too much dependent on those countries. I dunno.

Judging from the simple Solow growth model china is killing it everywhere, while the western world is way behind with some exceptions..
They dont like it anymore to be just a cheap stuff supplier, they want to be doctors and scientists..

[KevinNYC]

The moment china stops buying Dollars and Saudi Arabia understands that US Dollar is not good enough as the main currency for oil its over. I think that there is somewhat of a contract tho, but one guy who is pretty deep in this business told me that there is some flaws and there might be a new currency just for the oil. I can not confirm it with links, sorry.

US could not go argentina style without paying the dept or inflate their way out of it...Only option is taxes and reversing roles with China as cheap third world country and cheap stuff supplier.. Europe is pretty similar.

Yeah, I'm sure we'll be reversing roles with China shortly. Also who sponsors this new oil currency ?

I'm sorry, but this sounds like the type of hyperinflation nonsense that have been proven false in the past 5 years. Investors didn't run away from the dollar or US Treasury Bonds, in fact, US Treasury bonds were the most desired they have ever been by investors.

Would you consider the UK to be a third world country? They had a much, much higher debt/GDP number for most of the 20th Century than the US does now or is projected to have to 2040.

[kentatm]

Obama's inability to work with the legislative branch and actually lead the nation is troubling on many levels.


they got together before he was even elected and conspired to say no to literally everything he wanted in an effort to make him a one term President.

No President could work with that type of mindset.

[kentatm]

"free college" :rolleyes:

Somebody has to be the janitor or trashman. Giving everyone a "free" college degree just distorts their value. Single payer would be more effective than Obamacare, but is still a bad option.


There is no such thing as a distorted value when it comes to more people getting the chance at higher education.

Education is basic infrastructure for the future.

The more highly educated people the better odds you have of somebody creating the next great innovation.

[KevinNYC]

It's not just me.


Poll: Americans disapprove of how Obama is handling Syria, Iran (http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/politics/diplomacy/130924/poll-obama-syria-iran-foreign-policy)


With poor ratings on handling Syria Obama's approval worst in over a year (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/09/with-poor-ratings-on-handling-syria-obamas-approval-worst-in-over-a-year/)


Americans have negative view of Obama on Syria, Iran (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57604432/poll-americans-have-negative-view-of-obama-on-syria-iran/)


This is true, but on the single issue of chemical weapons as opposed to the messier issue of the Syrian war itself, close to 70% of Americans support the result of Getting Assad to to agree to give up his chemical weapons.

Also the numbers you cite are note "Is the score Putin - 1 Obama - 0?"

[KevinNYC]

they got together before he was even elected

I think you mean before he took office. After the election, but before the inauguration...so between November and January.

[kentatm]

I think you mean before he took office. After the election, but before the inauguration...so between November and January.


whoops yea. same difference though.

he wasn't in office and they already were making it their goal to sink his Presidency.

My favorite example of that was Newt Gingrich on Libya

March 7, 2011 to Greta Van Susteren
“Exercise a no-fly zone this evening,” he replied. “All we have to say is that we think that slaughtering your own citizens is unacceptable and that we're intervening…. All we have to do is suppress his air force, which we could do in minutes.”

March 17, 2011 Obama supported no fly zone approved by UN Security Council

March 23, 2011 to Matt Lauer
“I would not have intervened…. I would not have used American and European forces, bombing Arabs and that country."

:yaohappy:

[CeltsGarlic]

Yeah, I'm sure we'll be reversing roles with China shortly. Also who sponsors this new oil currency ?

I'm sorry, but this sounds like the type of hyperinflation nonsense that have been proven false in the past 5 years. Investors didn't run away from the dollar or US Treasury Bonds, in fact, US Treasury bonds were the most desired they have ever been by investors.

Would you consider the UK to be a third world country? They had a much, much higher debt/GDP number for most of the 20th Century than the US does now or is projected to have to 2040.

Have no idea about the sponsors.. sorry. OPEC would be my guess.

Arent US investors are mostly chinese or US Gov? Especially bonds are owned greatly by the same China.

Umm, US GDP is fake because inflation increased it drastically.

[KeylessEntry]

Have no idea about the sponsors.. sorry. OPEC would be my guess.

Arent US investors are mostly chinese or US Gov? Especially bonds are owned greatly by the same China.

Umm, US GDP is fake because inflation increased it drastically.

No. The people who own US debts are not the chinese, they are central banks and organizations like the IMF.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Every nation has debt. The UK, Germany, France, Italy, Ireland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark all have more govt debt per capita than the US does.

[rufuspaul]

[QUOTE=kentatm]whoops yea. same difference though.

he wasn't in office and they already were making it their goal to sink his Presidency.

My favorite example of that was Newt Gingrich on Libya

March 7, 2011 to Greta Van Susteren

[KevinNYC]

No. The people who own US debts are not the chinese, they are central banks and organizations like the IMF.
Individual companies and regular old individuals can own treasury bonds. It's not just central banks. China holds about 8 to 9 of us debt.

[rezznor]

PM me if you advice on where to go.
appreciate the offer man. i've actually already done most of the touristy stuff before, i just wanted to pay my repsects at ground zero. tbh, not sure how much time i will have this trip, i will be spending much of the weekend at the mandarin for a wedding.

[KevinNYC]

Umm, US GDP is fake because inflation increased it drastically.
:biggums:

When? Cuz we haven't had much inflation recently. This is why I said that it sounds like you are getting bad information.

Also debt to GDP is a ratio. Inflation would affect both debt and GDP. So using that argument you could say US debt is fake.

[CeltsGarlic]

:biggums:

When? Cuz we haven't had much inflation recently. This is why I said that it sounds like you are getting bad information.

Also debt to GDP is a ratio. Inflation would affect both debt and GDP. So using that argument you could say US debt is fake.

Im a bit mixed up what I meant.
Its damn late at night in lithuania, kevin.
I will respond to you in 10h..

Adios.

[HarryCallahan]

There is no such thing as a distorted value when it comes to more people getting the chance at higher education.

Education is basic infrastructure for the future.

The more highly educated people the better odds you have of somebody creating the next great innovation.

Yes there is distorted value in education. You spend $80,000 to get a degree only to find out that the market is flooded with people who have the same degree and there are not enough vacancies to employ many of you, then the degree is not worth the $80,000.

Wrong. Spending years in a classroom is not a productive thing to do. You create no value sitting in a classroom. The major advancements over the next few decades will be in technology, coding etc. These are things which many 10+ year old kids are capable of teaching themselves at a faster rate than they would be able to learn in a classroom, with the added bonus of getting to do it at their leisure and not having to pay $20,000 a year to "learn" it.

IMO the greatest invention of the last 15years is Google, they did not require a degree, they did not have school to get in the way of the innovation process.

[rezznor]

hurricane coming, guess what...no FEMA. It's all kind of convenient I think. Probably a false flag.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/03/1243847/-FEMA-Scrambles-to-Recall-Workers-Sent-Home-By-GOP-Shutdown-To-Protect-Against-Hurricane?detail=facebook



FEMA Scrambles to Recall Workers Sent Home By GOP Shutdown--To Protect Against Hurricane.
byDartagnanFollow
Email 63 Comments / 0 New
Un-frickin-believable.

86% of FEMA's staff was sent home by the Republican Chuckleheads when they shut the government down. Now Tropical Storm Karen is churning into a potential Hurricane threatening Florida, Louisiana, Southern Mississippi and Southern Alabama.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency is recalling employees idled by the government shutdown as the U.S. Gulf Coast braces for Tropical Storm Karen, the White House said on Thursday.
Karen formed in the southeastern Gulf of Mexico on Thursday. Forecasters said it could become a hurricane before hitting the U.S. coast between the Florida Panhandle and Louisiana.

As USA Today puts it, rather laconically:
What would be worse for disaster response teams trying to cope with the government shutdown?
Coping with a shutdown in the midst of a hurricane.

Although I guess this provides the Republican Party with a golden opportunity to demonstrate how non-essential government employees really are. I expect to see the likes of Louis Gohmert, Virginia Foxx, Ted Cruz and this asshole to be carrying sandbags and jugs of fresh water to affected areas. Here are some helpful maps to assist them in locating those areas.
They won't be getting any help from NOAA, though.

But not every weather agency is up and running. Here is where we would typically give you some information from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. But its website, NOAA.gov, is currently down due to the shutdown. Ready.gov, a site that helps Americans set up plans for disasters, is not updating during the shutdown.
Guess folks in those areas are on their own. But they can always to go the Emergency Room, right? Thanks, Republicans! Heckuva job!
FEMA does have a shutdown contingency plan, and its Hurricane Center in Miami was just re-activated this morning. Of course, those folks can't be in two places at once:

But FEMA can't just do everything during a shutdown. On Wednesday, a congressional hearing about the agency's emergency alert system took place. No one from FEMA was able to attend.
Because no one really needs an "emergency alert system."

[KeylessEntry]

Individual companies and regular old individuals can own treasury bonds. It's not just central banks. China holds about 8 to 9 of us debt.


I never said it was "just" central banks, but central banks own a serious chunk. Thanks to QE the US federal reserve alone owns more of our debt than China does.

You are correct that individual parties (private banks and other investors) hold treasury bonds too.

[KevinNYC]

Nope, i'm not sure why you'd say that. :confusedshrug:
I'm just saying that regardless of her bat-sh!t crazy opinions, she actually is a nice honest lady.

Yeah, a nice honest lady who decided not to run for Congress again just ahead of the FBI investigation into her campaign
The guy she hired in Iowa just quit his job yesterday and may face felony charges over this. (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/02/iowa-lawmaker-resigns-over-bachmann-payments/2912323/)

DES MOINES, Iowa -- Kent Sorenson, an Iowa state senator facing accusations that he inappropriately received pay from at least one presidential campaign in the lead-up to the 2012 Iowa caucuses, resigned from office Wednesday.

The Republican stepped down just hours after an independent investigator delivered a damning report to the Senate Ethics Committee, which has been investigating his conduct for several months.

The report found "probable cause" that Sorenson broke ethics rules by accepting payments from a political action committee associated with 2012 presidential candidate Michele Bachmann, a U.S. representative from Minnesota. The report also said his denials of taking such payment may represent a felony under Iowa law.

[KevinNYC]

found this at Global Macro Monitor
http://macromon.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/jan30_treasury_1.jpg

[HarryCallahan]

I don't get how some guy she paid in Iowa, denying it happening makes her a bad person.
She took in like 10,000 foster kids. She IS a nice lady.

[Jailblazers7]

I don't get how some guy she paid in Iowa, denying it happening makes her a bad person.
She took in like 10,000 foster kids. She IS a nice lady.

Yeah, I'm sure the is a nice woman but she never had any business being a member of Congress.

[KevinNYC]

I don't get how some guy she paid in Iowa, denying it happening makes her a bad person.
She took in like 10,000 foster kids. She IS a nice lady.

The way she arraigned to pay the guy was totally shady and she is under investigation herself for it. They tried to set up the payments to make it look like he was not working for her when he was. They were trying to evade federal election regulations, Iowa ethics rules and Congressional ethics rules.
This guy also stole a valuable mailing list that the Bachmann campaign used and another Bachmann support who worked at the organization that owned the mailing list was was blamed for the theft and she was fired from that organization. Bachmann knew the other guy stole it, but said nothing. The woman sued and Bachmann had to settle with her and issue a statement to the Iowa Republican praising her to high heaven.

[HarryCallahan]

The way she arraigned to pay the guy was totally shady and she is under investigation herself for it. They tried to set up the payments to make it look like he was not working for her when he was. They were trying to evade federal election regulations, Iowa ethics rules and Congressional ethics rules.
This guy also stole a valuable mailing list that the Bachmann campaign used and another Bachmann support who worked at the organization that owned the mailing list was was blamed for the theft and she was fired from that organization. Bachmann knew the other guy stole it, but said nothing. The woman sued and Bachmann had to settle with her and issue a statement to the Iowa Republican praising her to high heaven.

Dats politics son.