So Shaq is the MDE, but never posted a 30 ppg season?

[The Iron Fist]

:roll:


How are you gonna be called the most dominant ever and not even post one 30 ppg season?


a guy named TINY, has a 30 point season. But Shaq can't even get one?

[Young X]

How was he supposed to average 30, while playing alongside another player averaging 22-24 shots per game? He's not the most dominant ever anyways.

[The Iron Fist]

How was he supposed to average 30, while playing alongside another player averaging 22-24 shots per game? He's not the most dominant ever anyways.

So one season in which a player shot 23 times a game, stopped Shaq from scoring 30 ppg at least once in 19 seasons?

Your attempt was as good as a Shaq free throw.

[Droid101]

How was he supposed to average 30, while playing alongside another player averaging 22-24 shots per game? He's not the most dominant ever anyways.
That was a pretty weak troll man. 1/10 since you already got one response.

[CavaliersFTW]

:roll:


How are you gonna be called the most dominant ever and not even post one 30 ppg season?


a guy named TINY, has a 30 point season. But Shaq can't even get one?
He also never lead the league in rebounds. Wilt Chamberlain is the undisputed most dominant ever. I laugh when people try to say it is Shaq.

[Young X]

How am I trolling? When people call Shaq the MDE they're talking about his prime with LA when Kobe was taking 3-4 more shots than him. How many 30 ppg scorers played alongside players taking 3-4 more shots than them per game? Measuring a players dominance just by looking at PPG is DUMB.

[KG215]

Great point OP. Those years where he only averaged 28-29 PPG just weren't good enough. As if PPG is the sole measuring tool for how dominant a player was. :rolleyes:

And the MDE moniker doesn't come from his regular season play anyway. It comes from his dominant playoff runs in the 3-peat.

[juju151111]

Check his playoffs numbers during the 3 peat dumb ****

[Lebron23]

The Diesel averaged almost 40 ppg in the NBA finals on a higher shooting efficiency. he and Jordan are the 2 best finals performer of all time.

[Droid101]

I told you people not to respond! Please! You're only making the troll stronger!

[Lebron23]

Post Kobe and Shaq career finals stats.

[CavaliersFTW]

The Diesel averaged almost 40 ppg in the NBA finals on a higher shooting efficiency. he and Jordan are the 2 best finals performer of all time.
Baylor and West say hi.

[The Iron Fist]

Post Kobe and Shaq career finals stats.
Kobe, 5 rings, 7 finals
Shaq 4 rings, 6 finals

Yea, Shaq isn't really looking all that dominant. Especially when his supposed "sidekick", has more finals wins, and appearances than him. Even more so when that supposed sidekick, has done more without Shaq than Shaq did without Kobe.

[The Iron Fist]

Check his playoffs numbers during the 3 peat dumb ****
Shaq only played three years? Are you counting the nba or lsu?

[SHAQisGOAT]

Like he easily couldn't if he wanted to :lol

Yea his best was "only" 29.7, oh and lets forget the 57.4% from the field. Plenty of similar seasons also like 29.3 on 59.9% from the field.

[The Iron Fist]

Great point OP. Those years where he only averaged 28-29 PPG just weren't good enough. As if PPG is the sole measuring tool for how dominant a player was. :rolleyes:

And the MDE moniker doesn't come from his regular season play anyway. It comes from his dominant playoff runs in the 3-peat.
Post Shaqs rebounding and blocks titles then.

[KG215]

Kobe, 5 rings, 7 finals
Shaq 4 rings, 6 finals

Yea, Shaq isn't really looking all that dominant. Especially when his supposed "sidekick", has more finals wins, and appearances than him. Even more so when that supposed sidekick, has done more without Shaq than Shaq did without Kobe.
One of the worst arguments I've ever seen a Kobe stan make. Congratulations.

[Lebron23]

Kobe, 5 rings, 7 finals
Shaq 4 rings, 6 finals


Shaq - 3 as the number one option
Kobe - 2 as the number one option

Lakers won a championship in 2000 and 2001 while Kobe shot under 40% from the field. He averaged 16 ppg in their first championship against a 35 yrs.old Reggie Miller.

[The Iron Fist]

Shaq - 3 as the number one option
Kobe - 2 as the number one option

Lakers won a championship in 2000 and 2001 while Kobe shot under 40% from the field. He averaged 16 ppg in their first championship against a 35 yrs.old Reggie Miller.
Shaq after Kobe, 1 ring
Kobe after Shaq, 2 FMVPs
:applause:

[The Iron Fist]

One of the worst arguments I've ever seen a Kobe stan make. Congratulations.
Post all of Shaqs rebounding and blocks titles then.

[KG215]

Post Shaqs rebounding and blocks titles then.
What part of my post did you have trouble understanding? I said his "MDE" moniker doesn't come from his regular season play. He was notorious for coming in out of shape, not staying healthy, and generally not taking the regular season as seriously as he should. He got the "MDE" tab from his postseason play where he had arguably the most dominant multi-year playoff run ever.

[KG215]

Shaq after Kobe, 1 ring
Kobe after Shaq, 2 FMVPs
:applause:


Shaq - 3 as the number one option
Kobe - 2 as the number one option

Lakers won a championship in 2000 and 2001 while Kobe shot under 40% from the field. He averaged 16 ppg in their first championship against a 35 yrs.old Reggie Miller.
Honestly, I can't decide whose argument is worse.

[Lebron23]

OP also forget that Shaq is also a 2x NBA scoring champion just like Kobe Bryant.

[juju151111]

Post all of Shaqs rebounding and blocks titles then.
Who cares. He avged 15rpg in the playoffs twice during 2 chip runs. 15RPG is more then good enough.

[The Iron Fist]

Honestly, I can't decide who's argument is worse.
It would have to be the lebron one considering everyone who never appreciated what Kobe brought to the three peat always said he would never win without Shaq.

But um, yea, you got the numbers for Shaqs rebounding and blocks titles to quantify Shaqs dominance?

[The Iron Fist]

What part of my post did you have trouble understanding? I said his "MDE" moniker doesn't come from his regular season play. He was notorious for coming in out of shape, not staying healthy, and generally not taking the regular season as seriously as he should. He got the "MDE" tab from his postseason play where he had arguably the most dominant multi-year playoff run ever.

He didn't "get" the moniker at all. He made it up and you dumbasses ran with it.

Now go get those rebounding and blocks titles to make the statement true.

[Dro]

Another Kobe troll added to the ignore list...I swear so ****ing stupid...or pathetic...

[B]2000 -- Shaquille O'Neal, L.A. Lakers
Averaged 38.0 points, 16.7 rebounds and 2.67 blocks to lead the Lakers to a 4-2 victory over the Indiana Pacers and the franchise

[TonyMontana]

He saves them for the playoffs.

1998: 30.5 PPG 10.2 RPG 61.2% shooting
2000: 30.7 PPG 15.7 RPG 56.6% shooting
2001: 30.4 PPG 15.4 RPG 55.5% shooting

And the Finals
2000: 38.0 PPG 16.7 RPG 61.1% shooting
2001: 33.0 PPG 15.8 RPG 57.3% shooting
2002: 36.3 PPG 12.3 RPG 59.5% shooting

Anyone thats ever watched a game from Shaq in those years can tell you he was the most dominant force in basketball history.

[The Iron Fist]

OP also forget that Shaq is also a 2x NBA scoring champion just like Kobe Bryant.
Kobes titles came with more than 30 ppg, with perimeter shooting. Shaqs farthest shot, was the "chippie".

Dude was the biggest guy on the court, played the closest to the basket and couldn't average 30 points a game for just one season? and thats your most dominant ever?:facepalm

[IllegalD]

Shaq - 3 as the number one option
Kobe - 2 as the number one option

Lakers won a championship in 2000 and 2001 while Kobe shot under 40% from the field. He averaged 16 ppg in their first championship against a 35 yrs.old Reggie Miller.

http://i.imgur.com/SKnFQ.png

[The Iron Fist]

[QUOTE=Dro]Another Kobe troll added to the ignore list...I swear so ****ing stupid...or pathetic...

[B]2000 -- Shaquille O'Neal, L.A. Lakers
Averaged 38.0 points, 16.7 rebounds and 2.67 blocks to lead the Lakers to a 4-2 victory over the Indiana Pacers and the franchise

[Lebron23]

Kobes titles came with more than 30 ppg, with perimeter shooting. Shaqs farthest shot, was the "chippie".

Dude was the biggest guy on the court, played the closest to the basket and couldn't average 30 points a game for just one season? and thats your most dominant ever?:facepalm


He played against the best batch of Centers in NBA History. Shaq averaged 29/13 in Orlando, and he wasn't voted in the all NBA first team.

[The Iron Fist]

He saves them for the playoffs.

1998: 30.5 PPG 10.2 RPG 61.2% shooting
2000: 30.7 PPG 15.7 RPG 56.6% shooting
2001: 30.4 PPG 15.4 RPG 55.5% shooting

And the Finals
2000: 38.0 PPG 16.7 RPG 61.1% shooting
2001: 33.0 PPG 15.8 RPG 57.3% shooting
2002: 36.3 PPG 12.3 RPG 59.5% shooting

Anyone thats ever watched a game from Shaq in those years can tell you he was the most dominant force in basketball history.
http://cards.freshcoastsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/FleerUltra-9900-54-RikSmits.jpg

http://www.halloffamememorabilia.com/images/products/p-524752-todd-macculloch-autographed-hand-signed-basketball-card-new-jersey-nets-2002-topps-4-aw-42750.jpg

Such fierce competition in the finals he faced.

[juju151111]

http://cards.freshcoastsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/FleerUltra-9900-54-RikSmits.jpg

http://www.halloffamememorabilia.com/images/products/p-524752-todd-macculloch-autographed-hand-signed-basketball-card-new-jersey-nets-2002-topps-4-aw-42750.jpg

Such fierce competition in the finals he faced.
Deke has like 43 DPoty u dumb piece of shit.

[The Iron Fist]

He played against the best batch of Centers in NBA History. Shaq averaged 29/13 in Orlando, and he wasn't voted in the all NBA first team.
Actually, the best centers played in the 70s. The ones Shaq played with, were near the end of their careers.

But yea, how many rebounding and blocks titles did Shaq win?

[The Iron Fist]

Deke has like 43 DPoty u dumb piece of shit.
Now post the DPoty for Smits and Todd Mac.
:roll:

[TonyMontana]

http://www.halloffamememorabilia.com/images/products/p-524752-todd-macculloch-autographed-hand-signed-basketball-card-new-jersey-nets-2002-topps-4-aw-42750.jpg

Such fierce competition in the finals he faced.

I noticed you left out his 2001 matchup(who was dominated just as easily). I wonder why that is. :oldlol:


http://images.usatoday.com/sports/nba/_photos/2001-04-24-mutombo-award-inside.jpg

Awarded DPOY the same year Shaq stretched his asshole in the Finals.
:roll:

Get back to me when Kobe scores 30+ PPG and 50%+ shooting on a DPOY for any series. Just look at his series vs Boston and Detroit at how he performs against good defense. **** it, look at any of his Finals series. 43% or worse shooting in ALL of them except 2002 vs the Nets. :roll:

[KG215]

He didn't "get" the moniker at all. He made it up and you dumbasses ran with it.

Now go get those rebounding and blocks titles to make the statement true.
And other people ran with it and still refer to him as the MDE. I never said I agreed with it. Stuff like that is arbitrary and forever arguable. But you're original argument, how can someone be the MDE with zero 30 PPG seasons, is about as stupid as it gets. Of course you're about as bad of a poster as three is on ISH, so it'snot a surprise. Almost forgot about you, too, because you laid low for so long. But when you make your mind up to try an discredit anyone associated to Kobe's success, there's only a handful of posters who can equal or outdo you in ignorance and sheer stupidity.

I mean, what's even the point of this thread? Why start it? The premise and original argument are incredibly stupid, and it's not like it's original material. Then you center your entire argument around one stat, like the handful of 28-29 PPG seasons and two scoring titles Shaq has weren't good enough and as if 30 PPG seasons is the only criteria by which dominance is measured, and it makes it even worse. "MDE" or not, Shaq was damn good during the Lakers 3-peat. The list of players who were better playoff performers than 2000-2002 Shaq is a VERY short one, and it may be non-existent as he has a very good argument for GOAT playoff/Finals performer.

Kobe was damn good in 2001 and 2002, and had his moments in 2000, but he wasn't better than Shaq in that time period which is where the whole "MDE" thing comes from. So bringing up what Shaq and Kobe did without each other, while referring to "MDE", makes little to no sense. As if that matters anyway. You're a Lakers fan, right? Why not just appreciate both Shaq and Kobe's greatness and the three championships they brought to your team?

[The Iron Fist]

And other people ran with it and still refer to him as the MDE. I never said I agreed with it. Stuff like that is arbitrary and forever arguable. But you're original argument, how can someone be the MDE with zero 30 PPG seasons, is about as stupid as it gets. Of course you're about as bad of a poster as three is on ISH, so it'snot a surprise. Almost forgot about you, too, because you laid low for so long. But when you make your mind up to try an discredit anyone associated to Kobe's success, there's only a handful of posters who can equal or outdo you in ignorance and sheer stupidity.

I mean, what's even the point of this thread? Why start it? The premise and original argument are incredibly stupid, and it's not like it's original material. Then you center your entire argument around one stat, like the handful of 28-29 PPG seasons and two scoring titles Shaq has weren't good enough, and it makes it even worse. "MDE" or not, Shaq was damn good during the Lakers 3-peat. The list of players who were better playoff performers than 2000-2002 Shaq is a VERY short one, and it may be non-existent as he has a very good argument for GOAT playoff/Finals performer.

Kobe was damn good in 2001 and 2002, and had his moments in 2000, but he wasn't better than Shaq in that time period which is where the whole "MDE" thing comes from. So bringing up what Shaq and Kobe did without each other, while referring to "MDE", makes little to no sense. As if that matters anyway. You're a Lakers fan, right? Why not just appreciate both Shaq and Kobe's greatness and the three championships they brought to your team?
:biggums:

Who in the hell made this about Kobe?

This is about Shaq and the falsehood that he is the most dominant ever. If you don't like it, you can take your bitch ass out. I didn't pick you to come in here. You came in here with your little cape on and still can't tell me how many rebounding and blocks titles Shaq has.

[The Iron Fist]

I noticed you left out his 2001 matchup(who was dominated just as easily). I wonder why that is. :oldlol:


http://images.usatoday.com/sports/nba/_photos/2001-04-24-mutombo-award-inside.jpg

Awarded DPOY the same year Shaq stretched his asshole in the Finals.
:roll:

Get back to me when Kobe scores 30+ PPG and 50%+ shooting on a DPOY for any series. Just look at his series vs Boston and Detroit at how he performs against good defense. **** it, look at any of his Finals series. 43% or worse shooting in ALL of them except 2002 vs the Nets. :roll:

What does Kobe have to do with this?

Nothing. Where are Shaqs rebounding and blocks titles if he is so dominant?

[KG215]

:biggums:

Who in the hell made this about Kobe?

This is about Shaq and the falsehood that he is the most dominant ever. If you don't like it, you can take your bitch ass out. I didn't pick you to come in here. You came in here with your little cape on and still can't tell me how many rebounding and blocks titles Shaq has.
K. You're right. How can someone be "MDE" when he didn't even have one 30 PPG season, or lead the league in blocks or rebounding? Great point. Let's just ignore the incredible 3-year playoff run he had and the numbers he put up. Let's try and quantify his dominance by what he didn't do in the regular season. Never mind the fact that he had a 10 year stretch (2nd season through 2003) where he averaged 28-12-3-3 on 58% shooting. He never averaged 30 PPG in a single season, nor led the league in blocks in rebounds, so how dominant was he really?

[The Iron Fist]

K. You're right. How can someone be "MDE" when he didn't even have one 30 PPG season, or lead the league in blocks or rebounding? Great point. Let's just ignore the incredible 3-year playoff run he had and the numbers he put up. Let's try and quantify his dominance by what he didn't do in the regular season. Never mind the fact that he had a 10 year stretch (2nd season through 2003) where he averaged 28-12-3-3 on 58% shooting. He never averaged 30 PPG in a single season, nor led the league in blocks in rebounds, so how dominant was he really?
Not as dominant as you'd like to believe, thats for sure.

According to some posters in this thread, in other discussions, the regular season is highly important in gauging ones success on the court.

But for some reason, in this instance, only three playoffs count.

Weird.
"most dominant ever", is pretty strong wording. Better come with some big ****ing numbers to back up that claim and not just rest on three postseasons where he shared duties with one of the best players in the game.

[Sharmer]

The Lakers would have three peated if kobe was replaced with almost any starting SG in the league. No way the Lakers three peat without Shaq. :lol

[bdreason]

You should try watching the games. It's a lot more effective than analyzing box scores.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Trying to downplay shaq's dominance to prop up kobe?
That's cute

[BoutPractice]

Have you even watched a peak Shaq Finals game?

Please explain to me how you're supposed to stop that guy. Hack-a-Shaq was developed because there were no legal, 'fair play' means to prevent him from scoring.

[tmacattack33]

:roll:


How are you gonna be called the most dominant ever and not even post one 30 ppg season?


a guy named TINY, has a 30 point season. But Shaq can't even get one?

LOL at just looking at his regular season stats.

Shaq posted 30 ppg or more 3 times in the real season aka the playoffs...in 1998, 2000, and 2001 (and he put up 28.5 ppg in the 2002 playoffs).

[LikeABosh]

OP is probably 14 years old and basing his opinion on ppg stats he looked at on basketball reference.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Just another Kobe stan showing his stupidity for the entire world to see.

It's funny how these Kobe fans downplay regular season awards like MVPs when it comes to Kobe but when it's time to prop up their boy, they bring up all these regular season awards. Shaq is the MDE because of his playoff dominance.

[Marchesk]

The Diesel averaged almost 40 ppg in the NBA finals on a higher shooting efficiency. he and Jordan are the 2 best finals performer of all time.

You forgot West. And probably Russell belongs there as well.

[CavaliersFTW]

You forgot West. And probably Russell belongs there as well.
And Baylor. He averaged over 40ppg one Finals, and holds the record for an NBA Finals performance of 61 points. Had 19rpg that series too. The people getting their panties in a knot here and are attacking OP are guilty of being very short sighted in this. Shaq gave himself the "MDE" Moniker - that doesn't make it true though no matter how many ways you try to look at it. 'Well but look at his Finals' - others have matched or even done better the #'s he put up in the Finals - 'Well but he was unstoppable' - others were considered more unstoppable at some point in their career, such as Chamberlain in the NCAA and NBA or Alcindor in the NCAA causing all sorts of rules to be made against them, and in Wilt's case he still shattered record after record that isn't even possible to touch today, etc. Shaq was the most dominant of his era when he was in his prime. But it's a stretch to say 'ever' - too many legends need to be glossed over in order to try and call him the MDE with a straight face.

[longtime lurker]

Shaq never average more than 30 because he sucks at shooting free throws. Simple as that. Lol at people pointing to the finals where he averaged over 30 to show his dominance. Yes a 4 game sample is more relevant than an 82 game sample sure. Horrible logic.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Kobe Stans are shameless. Instead of praising Shaq for carrying Kobe to three rings, they try to rewrite history by diminishing his impact.

[7_cody]

Kobe Stans are shameless. Instead of praising Shaq for carrying Kobe to three rings, they try to rewrite history by diminishing his impact.

Kobe did his part. His numbers were elite.

But I agree, Shaq was our most impactful player. You shouldn't take it too far and act like Shaq did it all, however. And you're right that Kobe fans shouldn't try to diminish his accomplishments.

[VIntageNOvel]

Kobe Stans are shameless. Instead of praising Shaq for carrying Kobe to three rings, they try to rewrite history by diminishing his impact.


i fail to see why kobe need to be brought up here :biggums:

not a single word of OP mention about kobe, yet all haters bring him up
you hate kobe more than you love your own favorite player

and earlier theres this supposedly "mavs fan" who said:
2011 Tyson Chandler impact (trash statline) < 2010 andrew bynum (very good production) :hammerhead:

[longtime lurker]

Kobe did his part. His numbers were elite.

But I agree, Shaq was our most impactful player. You shouldn't take it too far and act like Shaq did it all, however. And you're right that Kobe fans shouldn't try to diminish his accomplishments.

I don't see how saying Shaq never averaged 30 points is trying to diminish his accomplishments. Since we're not comparing him to Kobe we're comparing him to other dominant players.

[KG215]

i fail to see why kobe need to be brought up here :biggums:

not a single word of OP mention about kobe, yet all haters bring him up
you hate kobe more than you love your own favorite player

and earlier theres this supposedly "mavs fan" who said:
2011 Tyson Chandler impact (trash statline) < 2010 andrew bynum (very good production) :hammerhead:
:confusedshrug:

Because the OP is a known Kobe stan. Why would a real Laker fan even care about this or make a thread about it? A real Laker fan would just appreciate Shaq for what he did for their team and not find some simple-minded way to question something as pointless as "MDE".

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Since when did the postseason not count? Shaq's 2000 and 2001 championship runs are MDE-esque.

[VIntageNOvel]

:confusedshrug:

Because the OP is a known Kobe stan. Why would a real Laker fan even care about this or make a thread about it? A real Laker fan would just appreciate Shaq for what he did for their team and not find some simple-minded way to question something as pointless as "MDE".

maybe he still salty shaq left? :confusedshrug: or maybe he never like him in the first place? :confusedshrug: maybe hes also the fan of wilth chamberlain? :confusedshrug:

there's shit ton of possible reasons why he create this thread,
but why kobe was the first one to pop out when the haters first read the thread

isnt we all innocent until proven guilty :confusedshrug:

and if you talk about dominance, MJ, kareem, hakeem, or wilt got much more case than kobe

[Kblaze8855]

This guy is making some of the worst posts ive ever read from someone I think is serious.

Im struggling to find reason to allow this to continue.

[secund2nun]

Kobe, 5 rings, 7 finals
Shaq 4 rings, 6 finals

Yea, Shaq isn't really looking all that dominant. Especially when his supposed "sidekick", has more finals wins, and appearances than him. Even more so when that supposed sidekick, has done more without Shaq than Shaq did without Kobe.

Prime Kobe in the 3 seasons without having the best front court in the NBA: 1 missed playoff, 2 first round losses, 2 7th seeds....and that was with prime Odom.

Shaq is way better than Kobe who won the 2010 finals MVP off of hype and honestly in the 09 finals Gasol also outperformed Kobe and his massively overrated finals performance (32 ppg on 27 spg on 43% fg going up against weak perimeter D while Gasol outplayed Howard in the paint and took up all of the attention yet had a nice efficient stat line). Kobe has never hand a single great finals performance in his 7 trips despite having loaded teammates each time taking up coverage from him in the paint.

Everyone aside from Kobe fanboys knows Shaq was a far superior player.

[secund2nun]

To the OP:

He nearly reached 30 ppg twice. Also ppg is overrated. He only shot more than 20 shots per game once in his career and that was 21 shots. The rest were at 20 or below.

Points per shot is what matter and despite routinely only shooting 18-19 times a game per season he would average 27-29 ppg which is amazing.

Blindly looking at PPG is stupid. Any chucker can chuck up 23-24+ shots per game and reach 30 ppg.

[jlip]

Shaq has 2 scoring titles averaging over 29ppg. Let me repeat...He actually led the league in scoring while avg. over 29ppg in 2 separate seasons. Maybe he should have said, "Although I am dominating the league and scoring more ppg than anyone in the game right now, maybe I should avg. 0.7ppg more so that some anonymous troll on an internet forum can think that I'm dominant."

[Deuce Bigalow]

He also never lead the league in rebounds. Wilt Chamberlain is the undisputed most dominant ever. I laugh when people try to say it is Shaq.
:roll: good one

[zoom17]

:roll: good one

:facepalm OP so stupid

[Droid101]

This guy is making some of the worst posts ive ever read from someone I think is serious.

Im struggling to find reason to allow this to continue.
Does that mean you'll be closing any thread where TonyM posts? Because that would be pretty rad actually.

[Odinn]

Kobe, 5 rings, 7 finals
Shaq 4 rings, 6 finals

Yea, Shaq isn't really looking all that dominant. Especially when his supposed "sidekick", has more finals wins, and appearances than him. Even more so when that supposed sidekick, has done more without Shaq than Shaq did without Kobe.
And let's ignore the fact that
Kobe averaged 25.3 ppg on .412 fg / .442 efg / .848 ft / .507 ts
Shaq averaged 28.8 ppg on .602 fg / .602 efg / .484 ft / .590 ts
in NBA Finals games. (Kobe 37 games - Shaq 30 games)

And also let's ignore the fact that
Shaq lost a Finals series because of Kobe and Kobe lost in NBA Finals coz of himself.

Idiot.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Shaq had a very dominant 3 year run, one of those runs coming with the 2nd best player in the league on his team and the other with a top 5 player.

However it's hard to call somebody the most dominant ever when he was swept in the finals by a team who had a better player at his portion, while Shaq had a 1st all nba player playing alongside him and Hakeem did not..

Lets not forgot also that during the year of the finals Birth many people considered Penny to be the best plays on the team.

Penny was 1st team All NBA in 95 while Shaq was 2nd team. this was the year they made the finals.. Shaq was 2nd team while Penny was 1st..

In 96 Penny was 1st team all nba while Shaq was 3rd team..

It's not like Shaq was playing with scrubs, in 95 & 96 Penny was 1st team All NBA , 97 Penny was 3rd team all NBA. In 2000 Kobe was 2nd team all NBA, same with 01 & 02 Kobe was 1st team. Not to mention Wade was 2nd team in 05 & 06

[KG215]

Shaq had a very dominant 3 year run, one of those runs coming with the 2nd best player in the league on his team and the other with a top 5 player.

However it's hard to call somebody the most dominant ever when he was swept in the finals by a team who had a better player at his portion, while Shaq had a 1st all nba player playing alongside him and Hakeem did not..

Lets not forgot also that during the year of the finals Birth many people considered Penny to be the best plays on the team.

Penny was 1st team All NBA in 95 while Shaq was 2nd team. this was the year they made the finals.. Shaq was 2nd team while Penny was 1st..

In 96 Penny was 1st team all nba while Shaq was 3rd team..

It's not like Shaq was playing with scrubs, in 95 & 96 Penny was 1st team All NBA , 97 Penny was 3rd team all NBA. In 2000 Kobe was 2nd team all NBA, same with 01 & 02 Kobe was 1st team. Not to mention Wade was 2nd team in 05 & 06
You are aware there's 2 guard spots and 1 center spot on every All-NBA team. Are you claiming that because Penny was 1st team All-NBA and Shaq was 2nd team All-NBA, Penny was considered by "many" to be the team's best player?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Shaq had a very dominant 3 year run, one of those runs coming with the 2nd best player in the league on his team and the other with a top 5 player.

However it's hard to call somebody the most dominant ever when he was swept in the finals by a team who had a better player at his portion, while Shaq had a 1st all nba player playing alongside him and Hakeem did not..

Lets not forgot also that during the year of the finals Birth many people considered Penny to be the best plays on the team.

Penny was 1st team All NBA in 95 while Shaq was 2nd team. this was the year they made the finals.. Shaq was 2nd team while Penny was 1st..

In 96 Penny was 1st team all nba while Shaq was 3rd team..

It's not like Shaq was playing with scrubs, in 95 & 96 Penny was 1st team All NBA , 97 Penny was 3rd team all NBA. In 2000 Kobe was 2nd team all NBA, same with 01 & 02 Kobe was 1st team. Not to mention Wade was 2nd team in 05 & 06

Are you trolling? Honest question.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Are you trolling? Honest question.


All I'm saying is that Shaqs had alot of help along the way, he's played with arguably the 3 best perimeter players in the past 20 years not named Jordan. (His cavs days with Lebron he was to old to be dominate) People act like Shaq was out there playing with a bunch of nobodies, it's hard to call him the most dominant ever when I've seen Jordan win championships with less.

You think if Lebron or Kobe were playing with 1st team all big men in their prime year after year and was swept in the finals series/ not making the finals they'd ever be able to claim that they were the MDE?

Big men on here get too much of a pass, I'm not going to call Shaq the most dominant ever that was clearly Jordan. Shaq was only relevant in the playoffs when he had elite top 5 player playing alongside him.

You needed an elite wingman next to Shaq if you were going to win.

How many times do you hear Kobe needed a good big used against him? How many times do you hear oh Jordan needed Pippen? When it's all said and done Shaq will have only won titles with two top 25 players of all time..

Shaq never won titles in the manner of a Tim Duncan, who did more with far less.

[LALakerFan4Life]

:roll:


How are you gonna be called the most dominant ever and not even post one 30 ppg season?


a guy named TINY, has a 30 point season. But Shaq can't even get one?
Is this a serious question?:wtf:

[TheMarkMadsen]

You are aware there's 2 guard spots and 1 center spot on every All-NBA team. Are you claiming that because Penny was 1st team All-NBA and Shaq was 2nd team All-NBA, Penny was considered by "many" to be the team's best player?

Don't sleep on penny. In 95 there were rumblings in Orlando about who was the best player on the Magic, Rumor has it Shaq wasn't happy about his status of best player on the team being questioned. Penny was being called the next Jordan and was well on his way to becoming a GOAT candidate before injuries.

The trio of Penny/Shaq/Nick Anderson was nice, considered by some to be a top 10 big 3 of all time
http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2013/6/18/4443138/espn-insider-big-three-haberstroh-orlando-magic-shaq-penny-nick-anderson

There was some jealousy on Shaqs side with Penny being a rising star and getting the nod as one of the best in the game. Shaqs petty feuds began with Orlando/Penny
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2009-03-06/sports/magic06a_1_shaq-dwight-howard-kobe

[red1]

Ironfist proving his lack of basketball knowledge yet again.

[The Iron Fist]

Ironfist proving his lack of basketball knowledge yet again.
So uh, what exactly was Shaq most dominant at? Bouncing from team to team?

[Droid101]

:roll:

I got three extremely weak neg reps in a row in this thread.

TonyMontana has at least three alts... and it's hilarious.

Keep up the trolling my friend.

[ILLsmak]

Shaq never average more than 30 because he sucks at shooting free throws. Simple as that. Lol at people pointing to the finals where he averaged over 30 to show his dominance. Yes a 4 game sample is more relevant than an 82 game sample sure. Horrible logic.

It's actually pretty sound logic.

Especially if you include playoffs and not just finals. People can say weak comp when they talk about Finals (but I don't really agree), but it's hard to have weak comp in the playoffs year after year esp when there were so many other great teams.

The regular season is a joke.

-Smak

[Bigsmoke]

He did in the playoffs


That doesnt count?

[All Net]

His free throw shooting stopped him.

[Deuce Bigalow]

And let's ignore the fact that
Kobe averaged 25.3 ppg on .412 fg / .442 efg / .848 ft / .507 ts
Shaq averaged 28.8 ppg on .602 fg / .602 efg / .484 ft / .590 ts
in NBA Finals games. (Kobe 37 games - Shaq 30 games)

And also let's ignore the fact that
Shaq lost a Finals series because of Kobe and Kobe lost in NBA Finals coz of himself.

Idiot.
Let's ignore the fact that outside of Shaq and Kobe the Lakers averaged 31.9 ppg on 33.9%. Let's ignore the fact that in the game that Kobe took his fewest shots (game 3 - 13 FGA), the Lakers lost by the most amount of points in the series (20).

[Odinn]

Let's ignore the fact that outside of Shaq and Kobe the Lakers averaged 31.9 ppg on 33.9%. Let's ignore the fact that in the game that Kobe took his fewest shots (game 3 - 13 FGA), the Lakers lost by the most amount of points in the series (20).
You've decided to came out from your cave?

The Lakers lost in 2004 NBA Finals coz of Kobe. Whatever you say to make it look different won't work.

[upside24]

Like he easily couldn't if he wanted to :lol

Yea his best was "only" 29.7, oh and lets forget the 57.4% from the field. Plenty of similar seasons also like 29.3 on 59.9% from the field.
This. His scored plenty on very high efficiency despite opponents trying everything possible to stop him.

That is dominance.

He could have scored more if he had more FG attempts, probably at the expense of efficiency but who knows how many PPG he could have scored without Kobe.

Without Kobe it's doubtful his LA career would have featured a 3-peat, but he could have scored more.

[TheMarkMadsen]

He could have scored more if he had more FG attempts, probably at the expense of efficiency but who knows how many PPG he could have scored without Kobe.

I have to disagree. Shaq had his career high in ppg in the playoffs while playing alongside Kobe. All 3 of Shaqs 30ppg runs in the playoffs came with Kobe on his team..

Shaqs highest FGA per game in the playoffs came with Kobe on his team. Whil Shaq played with a pass first point guard in Orland and never topped more than 26ppg in the playoffs

[LAZERUSS]

Let's ignore the fact that outside of Shaq and Kobe the Lakers averaged 31.9 ppg on 33.9%. Let's ignore the fact that in the game that Kobe took his fewest shots (game 3 - 13 FGA), the Lakers lost by the most amount of points in the series (20).

This is as hilarious a post as has ever been posted here...

so you are claiming that Kobe's 3-13 shooting didn't have an impact on the final score?

I would argue that had he taken his normal 26 shots in that game, that LA would have lost by 40.

Or that LA was down 82-59 going into the 4th quarter of the deciding game...in a game in which Kobe shot 7-21.

Kobe's performance in the 2004 Finals was arguably the worst ever by a top-10 player in his prime.

Only West's '72 Finals would compare.

[La Frescobaldi]

This is as hilarious a post as has ever been posted here...

so you are claiming that Kobe's 3-13 shooting didn't have an impact on the final score?

I would argue that had he taken his normal 26 shots in that game, that LA would have lost by 40.

Or that LA was down 82-59 going into the 4th quarter of the deciding game...in a game in which Kobe shot 7-21.

Kobe's performance in the 2004 Finals was arguably the worst ever by a top-10 player in his prime.

Only West's '72 Finals would compare.
??

[Deuce Bigalow]

This is as hilarious a post as has ever been posted here...

so you are claiming that Kobe's 3-13 shooting didn't have an impact on the final score?

I would argue that had he taken his normal 26 shots in that game, that LA would have lost by 40.

Or that LA was down 82-59 going into the 4th quarter of the deciding game...in a game in which Kobe shot 7-21.

Kobe's performance in the 2004 Finals was arguably the worst ever by a top-10 player in his prime.

Only West's '72 Finals would compare.
Kobe 5
Wilt 2

Sorry bud

[El Kabong]

His free throw shooting stopped him.
Bingo! He hits them at a reasonable clip and he'd probably have averaged 30ppg 8 or 9 times over his career.

[La Frescobaldi]

Bingo! He hits them at a reasonable clip and he'd probably have averaged 30ppg 8 or 9 times over his career.
Wilt & Shaq..... but not Howard though. The only thing he has in common with those guys is he can't shoot free throws.

[The Iron Fist]

Wilt & Shaq..... but not Howard though. The only thing he has in common with those guys is he can't shoot free throws.
Funny thing about all the butt hurt responses is that they keep talking about the playoffs as if the regular season doesn't matter.


But make a thread about lebrons 4 mvps,

and the regular season is definitely important when talking about dominance!

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Funny thing about all the butt hurt responses is that they keep talking about the playoffs as if the regular season doesn't matter.


But make a thread about lebrons 4 mvps,

and the regular season is definitely important when talking about dominance!

Uh... actually it's Kobe fans that say that to justify Kobe's sole MVP, which was actually a lifetime achievement award.