View Full Version : Heat with Healthy Prime Grant Hill or TMAC
If you replace LeBron with a healthy prime Grant Hill or a healthy prime TMAC for the past three seasons then how many titles would they have won? I say Hill would have won three and TMAC would have won two.
Real Men Wear Green
10-03-2013, 09:31 PM
I think that if we replaced you with a bag of douche ISH would be a better message board. Why? Because the bag can't type. I win.
Kurosawa0
10-03-2013, 09:35 PM
If Wade's health was the same, zero.
kobeef24
10-03-2013, 09:37 PM
With a prime TMac I see them getting 2-3. With prime Hill I see them only winning in 2012.
TheMarkMadsen
10-03-2013, 10:18 PM
Prime Grant Hill?
Yes
Smoke117
10-03-2013, 10:22 PM
I'll take a healthy prime Grant Hill. Mcgrady has become super overrated. Besides that one season he averaged 30ppg there was nothing special about his scoring. He was tossing up 22 shots to average 25ppg. His 2003 season was the only season he was efficient. He was a good alll around player, but Hill was a better all around player and played much better defense. Grant Hill was not at his best in 2000 either when he started scoring more. His all around game suffered. His best season was 1997 and with his generally unselfish attitude him and Wade would get along fine. A healthy wade could easily average 25+ppg and be the main man on any team.
tmacattack33
10-03-2013, 10:56 PM
Neither of them would have won in 2012, with Bosh out for two rounds and Wade hobbling.
Miami needed a legendary playoffs from their franchise player and they got it.
T-mac and Hill may have been good playoff performers had they been given good teams. But their average playoff performance would not be at legendary level. They might have been able to come up with a legendary playoffs about 1 in every 8 years.
Lebron23
10-03-2013, 11:12 PM
Zero
Lebron is a superior playoffs performer than Hill and Mcgrady.
Zero
Lebron is a superior playoffs performer than Hill and Mcgrady.
I'm confident that both would have surpassed LeBron's 2011 Finals performance
and would have matched his 2012 finals performance.
aj1987
10-04-2013, 03:54 AM
I'm confident that both would have surpassed LeBron's 2011 Finals performance
and would have matched his 2012 finals performance.
The Heat aren't getting past the Bulls with T-Mac or Hill. Wade sucked that series and Lebron stepped up. Also, neither of them are as good as Lebron defensively. Not even close.
JellyBean
10-04-2013, 05:21 AM
:facepalm
Grant Hill and TMac were outstanding players. But I dont see either one winning a title if you were to replace Lebron with either of the two. No killer in control drive from those two.
Lebron23
10-04-2013, 05:35 AM
:facepalm
Grant Hill and TMac were outstanding players. But I dont see either one winning a title if you were to replace Lebron with either of the two. No killer in control drive from those two.
This
People easily forget than Prime Hill and Mcgrady were second round virgins.
Zero.... it took also alot of efficient basketball, defense & all-court versatility to even reach the Finals.... i doubt any of them would have contained Derrick Rose like Lebron did in ECF for example, yes Lebron played weird in that Finals, but you have to get there first.....
They were both kindof similar to Lebron in that they all are 6'8'ish, could handle the ball & score, athletic, yes yes yes.... but im not sure Grant/T-Mac could fill in all the responsibilities..... those responsibilities/features were certainly not at Lebrons magnitude, Grant didnt either have the scoring at that Lebron magnitude either.... they just were not the overall players Lebron was and it took ALL he had to achieve what Miami Heat did....
Mamba
10-04-2013, 06:18 AM
I am a mcgrady homer. That dude was something special it's a real shame the injuries happened
That said mcgrady could not do what LeBron does on defense / rebounding. LeBron collects alot of boards and plays hard nose d on the teams best player. Mcgrady ain' doing shit to Tony parker
dunksby
10-04-2013, 06:56 AM
The Heat might have won against the Mavs, because I don't see Hill as a kind of guy who would get complacent like that and start mocking his rival. But they would not be able to get past OKC and the Spurs.
AirFederer
10-04-2013, 07:13 AM
I think that if we replaced you with a bag of douche ISH would be a better message board. Why? Because the bag can't type. I win.
:lol :roll:
Zero.... it took also alot of efficient basketball, defense & all-court versatility to even reach the Finals.... i doubt any of them would have contained Derrick Rose like Lebron did in ECF for example, yes Lebron played weird in that Finals, but you have to get there first.....
They were both kindof similar to Lebron in that they all are 6'8'ish, could handle the ball & score, athletic, yes yes yes.... but im not sure Grant/T-Mac could fill in all the responsibilities..... those responsibilities/features were certainly not at Lebrons magnitude, Grant didnt either have the scoring at that Lebron magnitude either.... they just were not the overall players Lebron was and it took ALL he had to achieve what Miami Heat did....
In 2011 both hill and Tmac would have won the NBA finals. Bosh and Wade played pretty well throughout the playoffs and finals.
In 2012, LeBron played very well so there is a good chance neither hill or TMAC could match that.
In 2013, Bosh was very marginalized. I think TMac and Hill would have played off the ball more to give Bosh more opportunities in the post. In think both would have won the chip this year.
tpols
10-04-2013, 02:38 PM
They couldve won 2 out of 3 years.. I dont look at it as their teams though. Its more if you give Dwayne Wade a prime 20/8/8 or 24/7/6 player to go along with Bosh and great role players there going to be the favorite in every series(or 90+%).
aj1987
10-04-2013, 03:31 PM
In 2011 both hill and Tmac would have won the NBA finals. Bosh and Wade played pretty well throughout the playoffs and finals.
Do you not remember the Bulls series? They wouldn't get to the Finals without Lebron. If they somehow managed to skip the Bulls series and make it to the Finals, they would've won and Wade would've been a 2 time FMVP.
In 2013, Bosh was very marginalized. I think TMac and Hill would have played off the ball more to give Bosh more opportunities in the post. In think both would have won the chip this year.
:facepalm Bosh averaged 11 points and 4 rebounds on 10 shots against the Pacers (3-13 in game 7) and 12 points on 11 shots against the Spurs (0-5 in game 7). The Heat are not getting past the Pacers without Lebron.
tmacattack33
10-04-2013, 03:37 PM
They couldve won 2 out of 3 years.. I dont look at it as their teams though. Its more if you give Dwayne Wade a prime 20/8/8 or 24/7/6 player to go along with Bosh and great role players there going to be the favorite in every series(or 90+%).
Not if he's hobbled like he was in 2012 and 2013.
And Bosh was flat out out for two rounds in 2012.
Do you not remember the Bulls series? They wouldn't get to the Finals without Lebron. If they somehow managed to skip the Bulls series and make it to the Finals, they would've won and Wade would've been a 2 time FMVP.
:facepalm Bosh averaged 11 points and 4 rebounds on 10 shots against the Pacers (3-13 in game 7) and 12 points on 11 shots against the Spurs (0-5 in game 7). The Heat are not getting past the Pacers without Lebron.
Bosh is marginalized by LeBron's presence. Raptors' Bosh was a top ten player.
Just because Bosh is marginalized by LeBron doesn't mean he will be marginalized by Hill or TMAC. I think Bosh would put up 20 and 10 on 50% with Hill or TMAC.
TonyMontana
10-04-2013, 04:02 PM
0.
The Heat required GOAT performances from LeBron in 2012 and 2013 just to win. Performances that these other guys are not capable of
In 2011 they don't get past the Cetics or the Bulls without LeBron.
aj1987
10-04-2013, 04:08 PM
Bosh is marginalized by LeBron's presence. Raptors' Bosh was a top ten player.
Just because Bosh is marginalized by LeBron doesn't mean he will be marginalized by Hill or TMAC. I think Bosh would put up 20 and 10 on 50% with Hill or TMAC.
Is Lebron the reason why he's averaging so few DRB? Is Lebron the reason why he missed so many wide open jumpers (the same jumper he's known to be pretty good at)? The 3 games that Lebron missed and Bosh played at the end of the season, he averaged 21 and 8. Why didn't he grab more rebounds? BTW, Wade missed those games as well. You think Bosh is going to get the same number of shots with Wade and Hill/TMAC?
Cut the shit dude. You hate Lebron and you think that Perkins would help the Heat 3peat in Lebron's place.
TheGreatDeraj
10-04-2013, 04:09 PM
I would say 1. I think TMAC could have won in 2011. As good as Dirk and the Mavericks played the Heat would have won if Lebron looked to score more in the finals, especially in the fourth.
I don't think TMAC would have made it to the finals in 2013, but if he did then he would have tore up San Antonio if they tried to defend him like they did Lebron.
Rose'sACL
10-04-2013, 04:15 PM
Heat would have lost to bulls in 2011 with hill or tmac instead of lebron. Wade had worse numbers against bulls than lebron had against the mavs in finals.
This
People easily forget than Prime Hill and Mcgrady were second round virgins.
They never had a stacked team like LeBron.
RoundMoundOfReb
10-30-2013, 03:06 PM
2012 - Neither Hill or Mcgrady could've dominated the Celtics like LeBron did
2013 - No player on the Heat except Lebron performed close to their regular season level in the playoffs. No way Hill or Mcgrady win with that.
HurricaneKid
10-30-2013, 03:29 PM
The answer is ZERO.
With LeBron off the court:
2011- -9
2012- -79 (-3.4/100poss)
2013- -75 (-2.3/100poss)
So you want to add a guy (take your pick) with virtually NO postseason success and suggest that they could take teams that were outscored by a considerable margin and win Championships? GTFO.
Hoopz2332
10-30-2013, 03:31 PM
The answer is ZERO.
With LeBron off the court:
2011- -9
2012- -79 (-3.4/100poss)
2013- -75 (-2.3/100poss)
So you want to add a guy (take your pick) with virtually NO postseason success and suggest that they could take teams that were outscored by a considerable margin and win Championships? GTFO.
:applause:
arifgokcen
10-30-2013, 03:59 PM
obvious agenda and another troll thread though this is a subtle one.
get these NETS
10-30-2013, 04:02 PM
This
People easily forget than Prime Hill and Mcgrady were second round virgins.
how dare you bring up logic...this is insidehoops where 90% of threads and posts make no sense.
grant didn't get ut of the first round until 2 seasons ago
tmac just did it this year as bench warmer for spurs
Bron dragged lousy Cavs team to the finals...when neither hill or tmac could ever get out of the first round
bron lived up to the hype by winning multiple rings and fmvps
hill and tmac were more hype than game. great regular season players...though
TheReal Kendall
10-30-2013, 06:20 PM
People saying they wouldn't win must haven't seen them play.
With them on the team it would change other team's game plan against the heat.
People saying they wouldn't beat the Bulls:facepalm
Hill and T-mac are quite similar to Lebron without the mental problems.
They can play above average D and have more offensive weapons than Born.
Basically upgrades.
They would definitely win 3 rings by now with Hill and 2 with T-Mac
Well considering the significant step back in overall productions, versatility (even more so defensively), intangibles, leadership, IQ, translating to lesser team impact all in all... they would still be ringless most likely...
Next...
Smoke117
10-30-2013, 08:36 PM
I would rather have Hill. He could play off or on the ball and his defense is sorely underrated because he played pre injury during Scottie Pippen's reign. I've always found Mcgrady to be overrated as a scorer except that 2002-2003 season. The other seasons he was taking a lot of shots to average those points and his efficiency was below average. Grant Hill was a much more efficient scorer was the main man and would be even more efficient and would adapt well to playing with Lebron.
aj1987
10-30-2013, 09:38 PM
Hill and T-mac are quite similar to Lebron without the mental problems.
They can play above average D and have more offensive weapons than Born.
Basically upgrades.
They would definitely win 3 rings by now with Hill and 2 with T-Mac
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
They win in '11 with Wade winning the FMVP. Only one.
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