More likely to retire ringless... [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Budadiiii

10-06-2013, 01:03 AM

That's not to say guys like Derrick Rose or James Harden will ever win a ring and aren't cancerous tumors in their own right, but they happen to be younger and in a better position than Carmelo is and will be going forward.. theres always a possibility that luck has its way just like in 2011 when D Rose was gifted an MVP out of no where... crazy shit can happen... but at the end of the day the odds are against these types of idiotic losers who dont understand what it takes to win and make decisions based on calculated thought

Fresh Kid

10-06-2013, 01:04 AM

:coleman: come on people, cut it out, yall gone too damn far with this delusional bullshit coming from yall brainz:mad:

ihoopallday

10-06-2013, 01:05 AM

Well if Durant wins one then Russell does too. Same for Harden and Howard. Unless they split up, which I don't see happening. Melo has it worst since he's in the same conference as the big 3.

Jameerthefear

10-06-2013, 01:06 AM

melo

Budadiiii

10-06-2013, 01:07 AM

:coleman: come on people, cut it out, yall gone too damn far with this delusional bullshit coming from yall brainz:mad:
I think your two red bars speak for themselves..

Matter of fact I'm gonna start calling you Spoiled Kid. There's nothing fresh about you..

I'll be in NY in November to visit a relative so if you ever want to catch the hands feel free to shoot me a PM and we can work something out.. bitch

DaSeba5

10-06-2013, 01:07 AM

It's Melo more though because he has to go through Miami, Indiana, Brooklyn, and Chicago, and then whoever is in the west.

Fresh Kid

10-06-2013, 01:11 AM

melo
you too sport?:biggums: :facepalm

Jameerthefear

10-06-2013, 01:13 AM

you too sport?:biggums: :facepalm
no hate, but he probably has the worst team out of that group of people

B-Low

10-06-2013, 01:13 AM

Been in the league the longest? Melo

Team the furthest from being a contender? Melo

So he's got the most years under his belt, yet he's still the furthest from contending.

I'd vote Melo

Fresh Kid

10-06-2013, 01:14 AM

I think your two red bars speak for themselves..

Matter of fact I'm gonna start calling you Spoiled Kid. There's nothing fresh about you..

I'll be in NY in November to visit a relative so if you ever want to catch the hands feel free to shoot me a PM and we can work something out.. bitch
u said catch tha handz:oldlol: and im spoiled kid now??:biggums: material yall niguhs come up with these dayz:facepalm and you sure you wanna talk about some red bars? u wanna go there son?:lol

DaSeba5

10-06-2013, 01:14 AM

you too sport?:biggums: :facepalm

It's not hate. The Knicks are the worst team out of that bunch.

Fresh Kid

10-06-2013, 01:16 AM

no hate, but he probably has the worst team out of that group of people
:facepalm i cant believe im hearing this.

Fresh Kid

10-06-2013, 01:19 AM

It's not hate. The Knicks are the worst team out of that bunch.
thats what people want to think, but its not a fact, you will see this season:coleman:

kNicKz

10-06-2013, 01:20 AM

Kobe

DaSeba5

10-06-2013, 01:21 AM

thats what people want to think, but its not a fact, you will see this season:coleman:

You said this last year

Fresh Kid

10-06-2013, 01:24 AM

You said this last year
we had multiple injuries and a key player suspension thats why we didnt make it far,we werent that healthy but we still managed to be number 2 in tha damn east, and atlantic champs on top of that, but people dont wanna admit those facts.

DaSeba5

10-06-2013, 01:25 AM

we had multiple injuries and a key player suspension thats why we didnt make it far,we werent that healthy but we still managed to be number 2 in tha damn east, and atlantic champs on top of that, but people dont wanna admit those facts.

It's all about what you do in the postseason.

SamuraiSWISH

10-06-2013, 01:26 AM

Melo

Fresh Kid

10-06-2013, 01:27 AM

It's all about what you do in the postseason.
like i said, multiple injuries and key player suspension.

Fresh Kid

10-06-2013, 01:31 AM

Melo
http://www.csnbayarea.com/sites/csnbayarea/files/styles/scale_282px_wide/public/articles/images//558928.JPG

DaSeba5

10-06-2013, 01:32 AM

like i said, multiple injuries and key player suspension.

I think the biggest reason is because in the Pacer series both Melo and JR were chucking shots. The offensive rhythm and passing they had in the beginning of the season was non-existent. Too much iso.

Jameerthefear

10-06-2013, 01:32 AM

new york has to prove themselves. sorry fresh kid.

Fresh Kid

10-06-2013, 01:42 AM

I think the biggest reason is because in the Pacer series both Melo and JR were chucking shots. The offensive rhythm and passing they had in the beginning of the season was non-existent. Too much iso.
Melo was hurt bro:facepalm :rolleyes: and j.r messed up cuz he let bullshit suspension affect him, thats why he was partying many nights, getting drunk at tha club while dipping in sum poision ivy (rihanna) that cause him to lose focus like that, plus tha refs that kissed overrated hibbert and tha overraters ass by giving them punks wayyyyyyyyy more free throws than us.

Fresh Kid

10-06-2013, 01:43 AM

new york has to prove themselves. sorry fresh kid.
Houston proved themselves tho?:biggums:

Wavves

10-06-2013, 01:44 AM

Carmelo

joeyjoejoe

10-06-2013, 01:47 AM

Melo

DaSeba5

10-06-2013, 01:52 AM

Melo was hurt bro:facepalm :rolleyes: and j.r messed up cuz he let bullshit suspension affect him, thats why he was partying many nights, getting drunk at tha club while dipping in sum poision ivy (rihanna) that cause him to lose focus like that, plus tha refs that kissed overrated hibbert and tha overraters ass by giving them punks wayyyyyyyyy more free throws than us.

What does that mean? Melo could pass the ball more. And suspensions aren't excuses. JR really hurt the Knicks in the playoffs.

I do agree on Hibbert and the calls though (to an extent). He got away with a lot of calls in the postseason.

longtime lurker

10-06-2013, 02:42 AM

Out of these players, who is the most likely to retire without a ring?

Carmelo Anthony

Kevin Durant

Chris Paul

Dwight Howard

Russell Westbrook

James Harden

Derrick Rose

Dwight is a mentally soft immature loser that won't ever win a ring.

Chris Paul's team always seem to disappoint in the playoffs.

Durant is a lock for a ring at some point.

I could see Melo having a 2011 Dirk type run to a ring or otherwise he'll win a ring as the 2nd best player on the team. Either way it won't be with the current knicks team.

ihoopallday

10-06-2013, 05:05 AM

Dwight is a mentally soft immature loser that won't ever win a ring.

Chris Paul's team always seem to disappoint in the playoffs.

Durant is a lock for a ring at some point.

I could see Melo having a 2011 Dirk type run to a ring or otherwise he'll win a ring as the 2nd best player on the team. Either way it won't be with the current knicks team.

This is spot on

LJJ

10-06-2013, 05:10 AM

Anthony will eventually get his ring Rashard Lewis style.

KyleKong

10-06-2013, 05:18 AM

Dang, a lot of Melo.

I think so too, ha ha.

robert de niro

10-06-2013, 05:28 AM

chris paul

chips93

10-06-2013, 07:09 AM

paul millsap will never win a ring as a man. he just doesnt have that killer instinct

Dwight is a mentally soft immature loser that won't ever win a ring.

dwight has aleady been so close though

is he too mentally soft to win a ring, but not too mentally soft to get to the finals, and win a game?

Le Shaqtus

10-06-2013, 12:12 PM

Melo, one dimensional, makes no one better, lackluster defense. Only way I see him winning a ring is forming a super team a la LeBron.

I'm inclined to say Paul too because he's never successful in the playoffs, especially this past couple seasons despite having a good team.

CelticBaller

10-06-2013, 12:46 PM

Melo and Paul

bond10

10-06-2013, 12:54 PM

Carmelo followed by Chris Paul followed by James Harden followed by D Rose.

VIntageNOvel

10-06-2013, 12:56 PM

No Love for Kevin? :confusedshrug:

Brain Becker

10-06-2013, 01:00 PM

Melo

jzek

10-06-2013, 01:19 PM

drose and melo

Fresh Kid

10-06-2013, 01:29 PM

:coleman: dis makes no damn sense

stax

10-06-2013, 01:38 PM

Anthony will eventually get his ring Rashard Lewis style.

This. See also Glenn Robinson, Glen Rice, Mitch Richmond and others (i.e. veteran scorer with vastly reduced role).

ProfessorMurder

10-06-2013, 02:15 PM

dwight has aleady been so close though

is he too mentally soft to win a ring, but not too mentally soft to get to the finals, and win a game?

The only reason he went to the finals was because KG's knee exploded.

SmackOrH.A.K

10-06-2013, 08:21 PM

honestly i could see all those guys going ringless, unless they go ring-chasing late in their careers. but if i was to pick one, i would say carmelo is the biggest loser of them all.

che guevara

10-06-2013, 08:44 PM

Clearly Melo. The only way he wins a ring is if it's when he's a washed up role player.

Xiao Yao You

10-06-2013, 09:05 PM

paul millsap will never win a ring as a man. he just doesnt have that killer instinct

?

I'd sure rather have him on my team than Howard or Anthony.

Eric Cartman

10-06-2013, 09:05 PM

honestly i could see all those guys going ringless, unless they go ring-chasing late in their careers. but if i was to pick one, i would say carmelo is the biggest loser of them all.

Two Rockets on the list tho. Where is the faith?

Dresta

10-06-2013, 09:17 PM

Melo and Rose.

Sarcastic

10-06-2013, 10:12 PM

So basically everyone here thinks Lebron is winning the next 6 or 7 in a row? That would mean he ends up GOAT. Is that basically what everyone is saying? I mean if no one else can win, then Lebron is winning them all.

ballup

10-06-2013, 11:43 PM

Out of these players, who is the most likely to retire without a ring?

Carmelo Anthony

Kevin Durant

Chris Paul

Dwight Howard

Russell Westbrook

James Harden

Derrick Rose
All of these guys have another chance to sign with another team so it's more open ended than plainly put. If we ignore the possibility that these guys sign with a future championship team and the possibility that a superstar joins them:

Melo, Howard, and Paul are all within the upper half of the age division in this group so they are the best subjects to examine. Howard may actually be the first to retire as much of his game is dependent on his athleticism. His team is relatively young compared to the other two and young teams are often criticized for cracking in the post season.

Melo is on a team with the most veteran players. Because of this, His team is more likely to get worse than the other two. Amare hasn't played two full seasons in his Knicks tenure and he should be a major part of the Knicks' offensive arsenal. Melo's skill set serve him well in his later years, but will teams want an old player in Melo if he still plays the way he does now? Teams backed away from Iverson partially for that reason.

Paul has to deal with whether or not Blake and Jordan make the next jumps in their careers in a timely manner. He has some solid players around him, but the bench doesn't look awfully strong. That can change, given the Clippers' good choice of transactions in the past couple of seasons.

I'm going with Howard after considering all of this. His career can possibly be the shortest of the three. Even though he's younger by a year than Melo and Paul, his playstyle won't transition as well into his later years. I think he's in a better position than Melo currently and the next couple of years, but I don't any of these guys win a ring given these conditions.

SmackOrH.A.K

10-06-2013, 11:50 PM

Two Rockets on the list tho. Where is the faith?
that's why i didn't put them as my final answer :D

this list is all up to lebron

red1

10-06-2013, 11:53 PM

honestly i could see all those guys going ringless, unless they go ring-chasing late in their careers. but if i was to pick one, i would say carmelo is the biggest loser of them all.
yeah right

Le Shaqtus

10-07-2013, 12:13 AM

KyleKong

10-07-2013, 12:17 AM

Man Knicks fans you need to defend your home boy.

Le Shaqtus

10-07-2013, 12:47 AM

Man Knicks fans you need to defend your home boy.

Whats there to defend about him :lol his only strong point is scoring and he's not even the best at it.

longtime lurker

10-07-2013, 01:01 AM

Whats there to defend about him :lol his only strong point is scoring and he's not even the best at it.

Melo's capable of winning a championship but it has to be a very specific type of team built around him.

Eric Cartman

10-07-2013, 01:02 AM

Melo's capable of winning a championship but it has to be a very specific type of team built around him.

Like Dirk in 2011.

Legends66NBA7

10-07-2013, 03:31 AM

Considering Dwight Howard has said he won't win a title, I'll go with him.

So basically everyone here thinks Lebron is winning the next 6 or 7 in a row? That would mean he ends up GOAT. Is that basically what everyone is saying? I mean if no one else can win, then Lebron is winning them all.

Yes, this is basically what everyone is saying.

tmacattack33

10-07-2013, 10:10 AM

Melo

Le Shaqtus

10-07-2013, 10:32 AM

Melo's capable of winning a championship but it has to be a very specific type of team built around him.

You can say that for any star player, a true star works with what he has. No one is saying you have to do it alone but to have a very specific team to cater to your star doesn't speak volumes about their ability.

That being said, it did work for Dirk. It can work for Melo, but personally I don't see the drive in Melo that was in Dirk.

Thorpesaurous

10-07-2013, 10:34 AM

Melo's capable of winning a championship but it has to be a very specific type of team built around him.

This would be my answer too. I mean none of these guys are impossible, but we're talking about likelyhood. Melo to me is the least likely because he requires a really odd collection of players built around him to put him in real contention. Even when they were smoking hot at the start of last year, I never felt this was a team that was going to honestly contend.

You need a big who can help him defensively by protecting the rim, and help him on the defensive glass, but who can still shoot enough to space the floor for him, and not demand so much of the paint to get in his way (KG circa 2008 is unfortunately not available), and then that player has to have the psyche that he's obviously that good yet isn't supposed to be the alpha dog on this team. That's a really tricky player to find.

Also Melo is probably the one who'll age the worst, because the skills he brings to the table as a lead scorer don't jive with being an older role player, ala Gary Payton on the heat, as a late game decision maker, which Paul could do in his mid to late thirties. Durant as the pure shooter. Even Dwight just because size and defense and rebounding will always have a place, although you could make the case that he relies too much on his athleticism which will erode. I'd argue timing and instinct plays a large role and is at least part of his success on that end.

I'm not sure Melo will ever be able to not be the first option. I know he's shown a lot internationally on some stacked teams, but those rules fit his game really well, so he often is the best player on the floor in those situations.

And for full disclosure, I'm a longtime Syracuse fan, and henceforth a big Carmelo fan.

Spaulding

10-07-2013, 11:05 AM

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=313679

Melo CP3 Durant Rose

All 4 are going to retire ringless.

chips93

10-07-2013, 11:12 AM

The only reason he went to the finals was because KG's knee exploded.

injuries are part of the game

?

I'd sure rather have him on my team than Howard or Anthony.

i was just kidding by bringing up millsap. i just hate these kinds of threads

millsap is a good player, and hes a lot smarter than howard and anthony, but i would definitely rather have anthony or howard.

Fresh Kid

10-07-2013, 11:14 AM

Lebron (no SUPER stacked team)

Thorpesaurous

10-07-2013, 11:16 AM

You can say that for any star player, a true star works with what he has. No one is saying you have to do it alone but to have a very specific team to cater to your star doesn't speak volumes about their ability.

That being said, it did work for Dirk. It can work for Melo, but personally I don't see the drive in Melo that was in Dirk.

Personally, while Dirk is a little tricky to build around, he feels easier to me because his perimeter elbow shooting means you're still looking for a big who does big guy things. You need him to rebound above average, and defend the rim above average, and it'd be nice if he had some post game, but it's not essential, but with all that he's still just being a big.

I've always thought that Barkley was incredibly hard to build around, and that's part of why he never got a title. He's too good not to be the best guy on the team, but has too many holes to cover up, particularly defensively given the position he plays. You could try him as a power SF, to give yourself more rim protection to cover his warts, but now you've got spacing issues to deal with. He's the guy that structurally, from a team building perspective, Melo reminds me of, even thought there games aren't that similar. Melo has a lot of Bernard King in him. And there's some Paul Pierce in there too, but Melo has moved himself much more toward being back to the basket oriented than those guys.

Jordan, for what it's worth, I find incredibly difficult to build around, because he's an inverted offensive player. And I think it speaks to Pippen's versatility all the things he could cover for to help hold that roster of very specific pieces together.

ProfessorMurder

10-07-2013, 11:21 AM

injuries are part of the game

Yeah, but the Celtics were the best team in 09 until KG's knee. So Orlando beat the hurt Celtics in 7, and the mismatched Cleveland (mismatched because of outside shooters not Dwight). That's not a great finals run.

chips93

10-07-2013, 11:54 AM

Yeah, but the Celtics were the best team in 09 until KG's knee. So Orlando beat the hurt Celtics in 7, and the mismatched Cleveland (mismatched because of outside shooters not Dwight).

dwight averaged 26 and 14 against the cavs, and the magics shooters got great looks because dwight attracts so much attention.

he averaged 20 points, 15 reboudns and 2.5 blocks per game on that post season run.

That's not a great finals run

im not saying its a great finals run, im saying you can win a title with dwight as your best player. since it already almost happened.

Bibby4Three

10-07-2013, 12:01 PM

Nash playing on that shitty ass Lakers team.

Doranku

10-07-2013, 12:48 PM

Easily Dwight. The Melo hate on this board is unparalleled.

tpols

10-07-2013, 01:03 PM

Easily Dwight. The Melo hate on this board is unparalleled.
Hes had JR Smith as his second offensive option.. worse than mo williams. Chandler has either been hurt or played like shit both years in the playoffs.. same thing with amare.. Its basically him all by himself.

scm5

10-07-2013, 01:14 PM

I would have to say that Melo is the least likely. Not because he can't win a title, just because the Knicks don't have the right players around him right now.

NumberSix

10-07-2013, 01:20 PM

I would have to say that Melo is the least likely. Not because he can't win a title, just because the Knicks don't have the right players around him right now.
I could see Melo winning a ring as a bench warmer when he's 37.

RoundMoundOfReb

10-07-2013, 01:55 PM

Carmelo Anthony.

Sakkreth

10-07-2013, 01:58 PM

He's not the worst player in this list, but answer to this question is Melo.

el gringos

10-07-2013, 02:08 PM

This would be my answer too. I mean none of these guys are impossible, but we're talking about likelyhood. Melo to me is the least likely because he requires a really odd collection of players built around him to put him in real contention. Even when they were smoking hot at the start of last year, I never felt this was a team that was going to honestly contend.

You need a big who can help him defensively by protecting the rim, and help him on the defensive glass, but who can still shoot enough to space the floor for him, and not demand so much of the paint to get in his way (KG circa 2008 is unfortunately not available), and then that player has to have the psyche that he's obviously that good yet isn't supposed to be the alpha dog on this team. That's a really tricky player to find.

Also Melo is probably the one who'll age the worst, because the skills he brings to the table as a lead scorer don't jive with being an older role player, ala Gary Payton on the heat, as a late game decision maker, which Paul could do in his mid to late thirties. Durant as the pure shooter. Even Dwight just because size and defense and rebounding will always have a place, although you could make the case that he relies too much on his athleticism which will erode. I'd argue timing and instinct plays a large role and is at least part of his success on that end.

I'm not sure Melo will ever be able to not be the first option. I know he's shown a lot internationally on some stacked teams, but those rules fit his game really well, so he often is the best player on the floor in those situations.

And for full disclosure, I'm a longtime Syracuse fan, and henceforth a big Carmelo fan.
So an elite defensive big, an elite gaurd defender, and 2 other elite scorers?

Shumpert
Jr smith
Carmelo
Bargnani
Chandler

Watch out- this squad is only a coach or a coach and a pg away

Thorpesaurous

10-07-2013, 04:05 PM

So an elite defensive big, an elite gaurd defender, and 2 other elite scorers?

Shumpert
Jr smith
Carmelo
Bargnani
Chandler

Watch out- this squad is only a coach or a coach and a pg away

You missed the tricky part. It's finding that elite defensive big who's yet versatile enough to step out and not get in Melo's way on offense. Which Chandler can't quite do. That's the reason I bought up Garnett, who would've been an absolutely perfect fit. Playing high low and exploiting mismatches, Melo using his size or speed advantage in the mid to low post, depending on who's defending him, while Garnett keeps the floor spaced with 18 footers from the top of the key.

And for all the old time Knick fans out there, you know who'd be absolutely spectacular at this. Patrick Ewing circa 90 - 94, when he was regularly sliding out to 15 feet on drives and knocking down those high arching jumpers, while still being an elite rim protector.

Those are incredibly odd players, and Chandlers offensive game is more in the 20 inch range than 20 foot range. Now you have to find one who can accept playing with Carmelo and not being "The Man", which is one more rare feature to find among players with skill sets already that unique.

Also, I did actually like some things about the Bargnani trade from the Knicks side. They screwed it up in terms of value, but the fit is really intrigueing. Although any smart team will continue to defend Melo with PFs and leave their worst perimeter defender to hide on Bargs, same as they did with Kid and Novak last year. It's not like Bargs will take advantade of such a situation. But it remains to be seen if teams will do that.

And the problem with the line up you're listing there is that it's particularly weak handling the ball, and isn't nearly consistent enough shooting from the perimeter to iso Melo the way they want. That's not a good five man line up.

Fiasco

10-07-2013, 04:48 PM

Jason Collins.

sc19

10-07-2013, 05:03 PM

Melo would be like T-Mac in the future. Team hiring him just so he can come off bench.

Mr. Jabbar

10-07-2013, 05:11 PM

lebron was a prime candidate before pat riley surrounded him with the best talent on every position

aj1987

10-07-2013, 05:17 PM

lebron was a prime candidate before pat riley surrounded him with the best talent on every position
The Heat have the best PG, SG, PF and C? Wade> Kobe?

TheReal Kendall

10-07-2013, 05:22 PM

I love my nikka Melo but if he don't go to a better team he gonna be the Barkley of the new age.

That's not a bad thing cause Barkley is a GOAT but I know Melo really want a ring and he wants to do it all on his own without joining a super team like some players.

KyleKong

10-07-2013, 05:26 PM