Ray Allen top 10 SG of all time?

[Boston C's]

I have him 8th on my list...some ppl I see range him from 7th to around 12th but do you think Allen has cemented himself as a top 10 SG of all time did he need that big shot at all to do it? or does he need a third ring with another defining play to get it


I believe he was a top 10 SG of all time before the shot and my ranking of him being 8th on my list didnt waver from that shot...what say you?

[Just2McFly]

Only idiots have him outside the top ten

[aj1987]

Only idiots have him outside the top ten
More like people who haven't seen him play before he joined the Heat/Celtics.

[Bigsmoke]

Sure

He wasnt better but i have him over Richmond because of longevity.

[Lebron23]

I actually put him over Reggie Miller.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Absolutely.

MJ
Kobe
West
Wade
Drexler

Allen
Gervin
Iverson
Richmond
Miller

[red1]

Yes

[alexd]

Absolutely.

MJ
Kobe
West
Wade
Drexler

Allen
Gervin
Iverson
Richmond
Miller

Just wondering why you put Allen over Richmond?

[Big_Dogg]

If anyone ever saw Sonics or Bucks Ray, there is no way he could be outside the top 10

[Lebron23]

Just wondering why you put Allen over Richmond?


team success. And Allen as a franchise player led the Bucks into the conference finals.

[iamgine]

Here's 11 good SGs. Where would Allen be amongst them.

MJ
Kobe
West
Wade
Drexler
Sam Jones
Moncrief
Miller
Gervin
Iverson
Carter

[aj1987]

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. West
5. Drexler
6. Gervin
7. Allen
8. Iverson
9. Miller
10. Richmond

[TheMarkMadsen]

Iverson is a top 5 shooting guard of all time.

[kennethgriffin]

theres atleast 10 shooting guards who could do it all.. ray cant do it all


ray allen is a 1960's 1 dimensional stereo type shooting guard with more range


a wing player these days has to handle, create, defend, drive, pass, shoot, post up etc...

ray allen is a pure shooter.. nothing more.. if he doesnt have other players carrying him. his teams suck

he could never take a team on his back.

this is why i put him so low on my list. hes not top 10.

if i'm starting a franchise. i'm taking these guys before ray


1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Jerry West

4. George Gervin

5. Clyde Drexler

6. Dwyane Wade

7. Allen Iverson

8. Tracy Mcgrady

9. Mitch Richmond

10. Sidney Moncrief

this list is a little different than my overall careers

i'd pick these guys cause they all are multi tallented all around players

[aj1987]

i have him 13th... people on ISH need a history lesson on the nba



1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Jerry West

4. George Gervin

5. Clyde Drexler

6. Dwyane Wade

7. Allen Iverson

8. Sam Jones

9. Earl Monroe

10. David Thompson

11. Bill Sharman

12. Hal Greer

13. Ray Allen

14. Reggie Miller

15. Vince Carter
I know you're trolling, but why are Drexler and Gercin better than Wade?

Greer, Sharman, Thomson, Monroe, and Jones are NOT better than Ray Allen. You must've not gotten his games in Canada, when he played for the Sonics and Bucks.

[kennethgriffin]

I know you're trolling, but why are Drexler and Gercin better than Wade?

Greer, Sharman, Thomson, Monroe, and Jones are NOT better than Ray Allen. You must've not gotten his games in Canada, when he played for the Sonics and Bucks.


maaan.. give me a break.. if it wasnt for his tag along rings nobody would give 2 sh*ts about this guy. he hit that big shot for miami.... made his career

before that he was just a 1 dimensional three point shooter for half his career that would just run around screens.. he was limited on offense. those bucks teams were glen robinson and sam cassells show... ray filled it up much the way rip hamilton did for the pistons.. running around living off the play making and leadership of others


we saw what ray could do as absolute leader and #1 guy... a bunch of losing in seattle

[Legends66NBA7]

It seems that Ray Allen is like the John Stockton of SG's in these rankings. He'll get ranked higher all-time over guys that were better than him because of his all-time 3 point record, like how Stockton will get ranked over guys better than him because of his all-time assist record.

Not saying Ray doesn't deserve Top 10 all-time, but it's certainly a good debate and not easy whatsoever.

[Reggie43]

It wont be a crime if someone leaves him off their top 10 simply because too many past shooting guards tend to be forgotten over time. Past legends who won multiple rings and finals mvps tend to be forgotten around these parts.

[Boston C's]

maaan.. give me a break.. if it wasnt for his tag along rings nobody would give 2 sh*ts about this guy. he hit that big shot for miami.... made his career

before that he was just a 1 dimensional three point shooter for half his career that would just run around screens.. he was limited on offense. those bucks teams were glen robinson and sam cassells show... ray filled it up much the way rip hamilton did for the pistons.. running around living off the play making and leadership of others


we saw what ray could do as absolute leader and #1 guy... a bunch of losing in seattle

You know puttin him at 12th (which I strongly disagree with) isnt some monumental deal but when you say that he was a one dimensional three point shooter and limited on offense thats some bullshit...and no the bucks teams were led by allen their only deep playoff run was all around ray allen who filled it up anyway possible in the playoffs... and yea a bunch of losing in seattle but did you see the players they put around him? The fact that they won 52 games with that roster when everyone had them in the bottom of the conference was crazy itself

btw I'm pretty sure being the all time three point king will get you remembered pretty well

[red1]

i have him 13th... people on ISH need a history lesson on the nba



1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Jerry West

4. George Gervin

5. Clyde Drexler

6. Dwyane Wade

7. Allen Iverson

8. Sam Jones

9. Earl Monroe

10. David Thompson

11. Bill Sharman

12. Hal Greer

13. Ray Allen

14. Reggie Miller

15. Vince Carter
are you ever right about anything?

[aj1987]

maaan.. give me a break.. if it wasnt for his tag along rings nobody would give 2 sh*ts about this guy. he hit that big shot for miami.... made his career

before that he was just a 1 dimensional three point shooter for half his career that would just run around screens.. he was limited on offense. those bucks teams were glen robinson and sam cassells show... ray filled it up much the way rip hamilton did for the pistons.. running around living off the play making and leadership of others


we saw what ray could do as absolute leader and #1 guy... a bunch of losing in seattle
:biggums: You really should watch a couple of Allen's games when he was on the Bucks and Sonics.

[TonyMontana]

A case can be made that Ray Allen is the greatest shooting guard of all-time. Top 10 is an insult to this man.

Ray Allen is how the shooting guard position was meant to be played. Thats who you tell a kid to watch whos trying to learn the position. A shooter has a place on ANY team and thats what the strength of the position should be.

When your looking at shooting guards your not looking at a guy to build a team around. No shooting guard makes you a contender by themselves. Kobe has never gotten past the first round without a hall of fame Center...Jordan has never won a single playoff game without Pippen.....

Unlike those guys though Ray Allen actually did carry teams deep. He went on deep runs as the man in Milwaukee/Seattle with guys like Rashard Lewis and Glenn Robinson as his best teammate. :facepalm

And unlike those guys Ray Allen would be a PERFECT fit on nearly any imaginable roster. He can play with anyone and elevate everyones game because of the spacing he provides on top of his all around game.

[air mamba]

yes, somewhere in the 8-10 range

[air mamba]

A case can be made that Ray Allen is the greatest shooting guard of all-time. Top 10 is an insult to this man.

Ray Allen is how the shooting guard position was meant to be played. Thats who you tell a kid to watch whos trying to learn the position. A shooter has a place on ANY team and thats what the strength of the position should be.

When your looking at shooting guards your not looking at a guy to build a team around. No shooting guard makes you a contender by themselves. Kobe has never gotten past the first round without a hall of fame Center...Jordan has never won a single playoff game without Pippen.....

Unlike those guys though Ray Allen actually did carry teams deep. He went on deep runs as the man in Milwaukee/Seattle with guys like Rashard Lewis and Glenn Robinson as his best teammate. :facepalm

And unlike those guys Ray Allen would be a PERFECT fit on nearly any imaginable roster. He can play with anyone and elevate everyones game because of the spacing he provides on top of his all around game.

well said:applause:

[#number6ix#]

maaan.. give me a break.. if it wasnt for his tag along rings nobody would give 2 sh*ts about this guy. he hit that big shot for miami.... made his career

before that he was just a 1 dimensional three point shooter for half his career that would just run around screens.. he was limited on offense. those bucks teams were glen robinson and sam cassells show... ray filled it up much the way rip hamilton did for the pistons.. running around living off the play making and leadership of others


we saw what ray could do as absolute leader and #1 guy... a bunch of losing in seattle
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/doubletake.gif

That comment lets me know you don't know anything about Ray Allen's game before 2008...

[Cali Syndicate]

When your looking at shooting guards your not looking at a guy to build a team around. No shooting guard makes you a contender by themselves. Kobe has never gotten past the first round without a hall of fame Center...Jordan has never won a single playoff game without Pippen.....

Jordan won one his rookie season against Milwaukee. Other two times before pippen was against the legendarily deep boston squads. While mj was working with woolridge one year and Charles Oakley as the talent the next.

And it wasn't just pippen. It was him and grant together. But obviously the bulls success had nothing to do with mj playing like the best player the league winning dpoy and MVP on a 50 win team. Scoring 35ppg and logging 200 steals and 100 blocks.....while pippen and grant played off the bench as role player prospects. Bench obviously matters but apparently, superstar play doesn't.


Unlike those guys though Ray Allen actually did carry teams deep. He went on deep runs as the man in Milwaukee/Seattle with guys like Rashard Lewis and Glenn Robinson as his best teammate. :facepalm

Allen and Lewis made the playoffs one whole time in four full seasons with Allen deep in his prime and Lewis right dab at his peak. Dafuq u talking about? And only reason sonics got past the first round that one whole time was cause webber blew his knee in the reg season and missed the playoffs.

In Milwaukee, they had one fluke playoff run. Mind you the east was weak as it's ever been where 52 wins is wins you a top seed. And mind you again, big dog Robinson and cassell were damn good players at their respective positions. Lol at your face palm. They beat a sole mcgrady team. Then a sophomore baron Davis and mashburn team. Big dog and mashburn basically a wash.... I'd even give cassell the nod over Davis at the time. All nba Allen obviously much better than Wesley. The. Next season, basically same cast, fully miss the playoffs. As stated, fluke.


And unlike those guys Ray Allen would be a PERFECT fit on nearly any imaginable roster. He can play with anyone and elevate everyones game because of the spacing he provides on top of his all around game.

Because mj or Kobe's a terrible fit for any team. Two of the best that's ever did it would be terrible fits. This is your logic.

And lol at the 18 posts in 2 years poster who happens to be named after mj and Kobe yet agrees with your bullshit post where you undermine both those same players talents and achievements. Yes, because that makes sense. :coleman:

[tontoz]

In the two seasons before he went to Boston he averaged 25.1 and 26.4 ppg as the team's go to guy. How can you score that many points as a one dimensional 3 point shooter? :facepalm

[BoutPractice]

Ray Allen is not a unidimensional player. He's a good all-around shooting guard who happens to also be arguably the greatest 3 point specialist in the history of the game. His "problem" is that he's too historically good as a 3 point shooter to get recognition for the other parts of his game.

[MP.Trey]

Side note: David Thompson is so severely disrespected by ISH.

[Champ]

I think Ray has a good argument for the top 10.

Just curious: For the sake of this discussion, are we classifying Hondo has a guard or forward? If the former, he needs to be somewhere in the top 5.

[Thorpesaurous]

I think Ray has a good argument for the top 10.

Just curious: For the sake of this discussion, are we classifying Hondo has a guard or forward? If the former, he needs to be somewhere in the top 5.

This stuff makes it tricky. Hal Greer is sometimes called a PG. So is Jerry West. Iverson was PG size and defended PGs, or just sort ran all over really, but was assigned to PGs on that end. Earl Monroe was really a second PG next to Clyde in NY, and most of his legend is as a player with the ball running things.
If these guys all count, I'd do this, which puts him 9th, but I could live with any number of other variations, with only a few deliniations (Like, if we're counting those guys, then the top four is the top four, even if you want to shuffle them around some):

Michael Jordan

Jerry West

Kobe Bryant

Hondo

Dwyane Wade

Sam Jones

Clyde Drexler

Greer

Ray Allen

David Thompson

Earl Monroe

Gervin

Vince Carter

Reggie Miller

Sharman

[longhornfan1234]

I know you're trolling, but why are Drexler and Gercin better than Wade?

Greer, Sharman, Thomson, Monroe, and Jones are NOT better than Ray Allen. You must've not gotten his games in Canada, when he played for the Sonics and Bucks.



The better question is...how is Wade better than Drexler and Gervin?

[branslowski]

Wow, Ray gettin disrespected here. It's almost like yawl don't remember him being the man and scoring nicely with the Bucks and gettin them to the playoffs with the 2 solid teammates in Sam Cassel and Glenn "Big Dog" Robinson. Ray even showed Michael Redd the ropes.

Yawl really don't remember Allen upping his already amazing game with the Sonics? On a givin night he can score just as fluid as Kobe.

I mean, wen u look at his prime, he already had an argument for top 13 SG. Then he ends up in Boston as a key player in them winning a title and even advancing past the Chicago Bulls in 09'. (Yawl watched that series) So unlike other SGs on u guys list, he won a title.

Then this past playoffs he was a key role player for the Heat. And he even hit the shot that saved Heats season (and Lebrons career) on way to another title.

Just sayin, for me, Ray is top 7 atleast.

Jordan
Kobe
West
Wade
Drexler
Mitch
Allen
Miller.

[Champ]

This stuff makes it tricky. Hal Greer is sometimes called a PG. So is Jerry West. Iverson was PG size and defended PGs, or just sort ran all over really, but was assigned to PGs on that end. Earl Monroe was really a second PG next to Clyde in NY, and most of his legend is as a player with the ball running things.
If these guys all count, I'd do this, which puts him 9th, but I could live with any number of other variations, with only a few deliniations (Like, if we're counting those guys, then the top four is the top four, even if you want to shuffle them around some):

Michael Jordan

Jerry West

Kobe Bryant

Hondo

Dwyane Wade

Sam Jones

Clyde Drexler

Greer

Ray Allen

David Thompson

Earl Monroe

Gervin

Vince Carter

Reggie Miller

Sharman

Solid list, Thorpe.

[tontoz]

Side note: David Thompson is so severely disrespected by ISH.


His prime was very short plus his career was ending just as the Bird/Magic era was beginning. That was a long time ago. but the guy was a spectacular player with crazy hops. He was the MJ of his time.


He put up some sick numbers in college too.

[SHAQisGOAT]

For myself, SG is the hardest position to rank the all-time greatest. Ray definitely has a strong case for top 10.

Considering everything, think I got the top 7 settled, like this:

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Wade
5. Drexler
6. Gervin (seeing he's underrated af right here, great prime/peak, almost MVP a couple of times, beast in the PS, almost in the Finals with teams that had no business being there.. longevity hurts him though)
7. AI

Then it gets tough because you got players like Ray, Moncrief, Maravich (forgotten here), Dumars, Monroe, Sam Jones, Richmond, Greer, Miller, Sharman, David Thompson, Vince Carter.. But yeah Ray has a good case for top 10. Of course, regarding peaks my list would've been different.




Just curious: For the sake of this discussion, are we classifying Hondo has a guard or forward? If the former, he needs to be somewhere in the top 5.


I classify him as a SF, even though he could and played plenty at the 2. Got him at #4 in my all-time SF list (even though it would've been different just for peaks, with Baylor above, who I got below, for example).

[aj1987]

The better question is...how is Wade better than Drexler and Gervin?
He's better than them in almost every aspect of the game.

[longtime lurker]

Wow, Ray gettin disrespected here. It's almost like yawl don't remember him being the man and scoring nicely with the Bucks and gettin them to the playoffs with the 2 solid teammates in Sam Cassel and Glenn "Big Dog" Robinson. Ray even showed Michael Redd the ropes.

Yawl really don't remember Allen upping his already amazing game with the Sonics? On a givin night he can score just as fluid as Kobe.

I mean, wen u look at his prime, he already had an argument for top 13 SG. Then he ends up in Boston as a key player in them winning a title and even advancing past the Chicago Bulls in 09'. (Yawl watched that series) So unlike other SGs on u guys list, he won a title.

Then this past playoffs he was a key role player for the Heat. And he even hit the shot that saved Heats season (and Lebrons career) on way to another title.

Just sayin, for me, Ray is top 7 atleast.

Jordan
Kobe
West
Wade
Drexler
Mitch
Allen
Miller.

Where's Iverson?

[branslowski]

Where's Iverson?

Oh shit, I can't believe Iverson slipped my mind...:facepalm

Jordan
Kobe
West
Wade
Iverson
Drexler
Mitch
Allen

Sorry A.I. can't believe I forgot about you.

[CavaliersFTW]

Sam Jones (10 rings, Celtics Dynasty's best scorer, most clutch player OF ALL TIME) and Earl Monroe are missing on a lot of peoples lists

[Thorpesaurous]

Generally speaking, I think Gervin's a bit overrated historically. David Thompson too, although it gets a little dicey, because he's a little underrated historically as a college player, where he's a legit all timer.

And Sam Jones to me may be the most underrated player of all time regardless of position.



Dumars may belong on my list somewhere toward the bottom. If I were picking a team from scratch I'd rather have Dumars than Sharman or Reggie. If my team were built certain ways I'd take Reggie, but I'm not the biggest Reggie fan either.

I also missed Iverson, even after mentioning him, who's I'd put somewhere in the Monroe/Gervin/Thompson group, and Moncrief, who I'd add somewhere near where I'd add Dumars.

[longhornfan1234]

He's better than them in almost every aspect of the game.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Legends66NBA7]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Can we get a counter argument outside of emoticons ?

It seems like you think Wade is DeMar DeRozan vs Drexler and Gervin.

[longhornfan1234]

Can we get a counter argument outside of emoticons ?

It seems like you think Wade is DeMar DeRozan vs Drexler and Gervin.
Clyde is more skilled all around player. He's better shooter, passer, rebounder, and defender. Wade's supporting cast dwarfs Drexler's. Drexlers sidekick in his prime was Terry Porter. :roll: :roll:

[Thorpesaurous]

Can we get a counter argument outside of emoticons ?

It seems like you think Wade is DeMar DeRozan vs Drexler and Gervin.

Gervin is just a much different player. And if I needed a bucket, I'd take Gervin over either of those guys 100 times out of a 100. But both of the other guys are worlds ahead defensively and on the glass.

Wade actually reminds me a good deal of Drexler, in his head down approach in the open floor when he was at his best. The titles and the ability to create and hit that pull up when he has to go left seperate him from Drexler just a bit to me.

[KyleKong]

I'm confused how Ray Allen is not in everyone's top 5.

[Legends66NBA7]

I'm confused how Ray Allen is not in everyone's top 5.

Because people have different lists and I really doubt he has a strong case.

[aj1987]

Clyde is more skilled all around player. He's better shooter, passer, rebounder, and defender. Wade's supporting cast dwarfs Drexler's. Drexlers sidekick in his prime was Terry Porter. :roll: :roll: Wade is a better scorer and defender than Drexler ever was. Wade is a career 25/6/5/2/1 on 49% player with 3 rings and 1 FMVP. Also, Drexler never carried a team to a title like Wade (28/6/6/2/1 on 50%) did in '06.

[tontoz]

I think his ability to score off the ball is undervalued. There are 5 players and only 1 ball, and everyone wants their touches.

Ray is a guy who can fit on any team as opposed to a guy like Iverson. He willingly sacrificed a lot of shots when he went to Boston.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I think his ability to score off the ball is undervalued. There are 5 players and only 1 ball, and everyone wants their touches.

Ray is a guy who can fit on any team as opposed to a guy like Iverson. He willingly sacrificed a lot of shots when he went to Boston.
Iverson actually moved very well off the ball. He couldn't take getting less touches. He's not as ball dominant as people assert. Makes me question whether people actually watched him play. Reggie, Ray, RIP, and Iverson were all exhausting offensive players moving without the ball.

[NumberSix]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Jerry West
4. Ray Allen

[bizil]

U gotta remember a GOAT list takes into account numbers, solo accolades, team accolades, longevity being great, and peak value. When u look at all of this, Ray CLEARLY is a top 10 SG. Hell he's arguably as high as 7 or 8. But he's easily in the top 10. Peak value wise, T-Mac to me is the 3rd greatest shooting guard ever. Just behind MJ and Kobe. But GOAT wise, T-Mac isn't in the top 10. He's more likely in the 15-20 range. Guys like David Thompson are also similar to a T-Mac in that sense:

MJ
Kobe
Wade
West
Drexler
Gervin
AI
Ray
Reggie

These are the top nine GOAT SG's ever to me. For that 10th spot on down u got these guys:

Monroe
Pistol Pete
Dumars
Sam Jones
Vince Carter
Hal Greer
T-Mac
Mitch Richmond
David Thompson

[Boston C's]

Ray Allen is not a unidimensional player. He's a good all-around shooting guard who happens to also be arguably the greatest 3 point specialist in the history of the game. His "problem" is that he's too historically good as a 3 point shooter to get recognition for the other parts of his game.


This x100

I bet most ppl don't know ray pretty much ran point from his trade to seattle through the 04 season for the sonics

[KyleKong]

Because people have different lists and I really doubt he has a strong case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOuIuDprZZo

Enough for me. :confusedshrug:

[Boston C's]

A case can be made that Ray Allen is the greatest shooting guard of all-time. Top 10 is an insult to this man.

Ray Allen is how the shooting guard position was meant to be played. Thats who you tell a kid to watch whos trying to learn the position. A shooter has a place on ANY team and thats what the strength of the position should be.

When your looking at shooting guards your not looking at a guy to build a team around. No shooting guard makes you a contender by themselves. Kobe has never gotten past the first round without a hall of fame Center...Jordan has never won a single playoff game without Pippen.....

Unlike those guys though Ray Allen actually did carry teams deep. He went on deep runs as the man in Milwaukee/Seattle with guys like Rashard Lewis and Glenn Robinson as his best teammate. :facepalm

And unlike those guys Ray Allen would be a PERFECT fit on nearly any imaginable roster. He can play with anyone and elevate everyones game because of the spacing he provides on top of his all around game.

I agree with the bolded...Ray isn't the greatest though and hes my favorite player

[Boston C's]

In the two seasons before he went to Boston he averaged 25.1 and 26.4 ppg as the team's go to guy. How can you score that many points as a one dimensional 3 point shooter? :facepalm

Makes you wonder how guys like kyle korver and jason kapono aren't lighting it up out there right :lol

[Boston C's]

theres atleast 10 shooting guards who could do it all.. ray cant do it all


ray allen is a 1960's 1 dimensional stereo type shooting guard with more range


a wing player these days has to handle, create, defend, drive, pass, shoot, post up etc...

ray allen is a pure shooter.. nothing more.. if he doesnt have other players carrying him. his teams suck

he could never take a team on his back.

this is why i put him so low on my list. hes not top 10.

if i'm starting a franchise. i'm taking these guys before ray


1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Jerry West

4. George Gervin

5. Clyde Drexler

6. Dwyane Wade

7. Allen Iverson

8. Tracy Mcgrady

9. Mitch Richmond

10. Sidney Moncrief

this list is a little different than my overall careers

i'd pick these guys cause they all are multi tallented all around players

the bolded absolutely lets me know that you never watched ray allen play before he came to boston

[Legends66NBA7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOuIuDprZZo

Enough for me. :confusedshrug:

This why I said earlier that Allen is the Stockton of SG's. People are going fall in love with his all-time 3 point records.

I just can't see Ray Allen Top 5 all-time SG's. Let's just say we are trying to get him in there... he's not better than Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Jerry West, and Dwyane Wade all-time. Now, he would have to be #5 because there's no reason to put him #4 because the above just have to much accolades and were better in their prime/peak.

But then we look at the list, he wasn't better than Allen Iverson, George Gervin, and Clyde Drexler. It's pretty easy to see that comparing Iverson and Allen, nobody back then or now considers Ray better than Iverson. Then you have to add the other greats like Sam Jones, Hal Greer, Earl Monroe, Pete Maravich, etc... Hell, at their best, Ray isn't even better than Tracy McGrady. I think you can say Vince Carter is even better too.

What Ray has going for him is a long career and the 3 point records, but that's not enough to put him at Top 5, his prime and career doesn't warrant it.

[Greg Oden 50]

More like people who haven't seen him play before he joined the Heat/Celtics.

JUST A LOSER BEFORE HE JOIN BOS & HEAT,NEVER ABLE TO LED HIS TEAM TO CONFERENCE FINALS

[Greg Oden 50]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Jerry West
4. Ray Allen

A LOSER LIKE RAY GUN LISTED AS NO.4 :roll:

[Greg Oden 50]

I actually put him over Reggie Miller.
A LOSER OVER REGGIE :wtf:

[Greg Oden 50]

team success. And Allen as a franchise player led the Bucks into the conference finals.

SAM CASSELL WAS THE LEADER OF BUCKS NOT RAY :no:

[Greg Oden 50]

A case can be made that Ray Allen is the greatest shooting guard of all-time. Top 10 is an insult to this man.

Ray Allen is how the shooting guard position was meant to be played. Thats who you tell a kid to watch whos trying to learn the position. A shooter has a place on ANY team and thats what the strength of the position should be.

When your looking at shooting guards your not looking at a guy to build a team around. No shooting guard makes you a contender by themselves. Kobe has never gotten past the first round without a hall of fame Center...Jordan has never won a single playoff game without Pippen.....

Unlike those guys though Ray Allen actually did carry teams deep. He went on deep runs as the man in Milwaukee/Seattle with guys like Rashard Lewis and Glenn Robinson as his best teammate. :facepalm

And unlike those guys Ray Allen would be a PERFECT fit on nearly any imaginable roster. He can play with anyone and elevate everyones game because of the spacing he provides on top of his all around game.
A LOSER IS THE GREATEST SG OF ALL TIME :roll:

[Greg Oden 50]

In the two seasons before he went to Boston he averaged 25.1 and 26.4 ppg as the team's go to guy. How can you score that many points as a one dimensional 3 point shooter? :facepalm

STILL CAN'T LED HIS TEAM TO SUCCUSS

[Boston C's]

SAM CASSELL WAS THE LEADER OF BUCKS NOT RAY :no:

I know your trolling but dont be stupid that was rays team...theres a reason he was an all nba player that yr and scored the most/put up the best numbers on that team

come playoff time nobody elevated the bucks team like ray did

[longtime lurker]

I'm confused how Ray Allen is not in everyone's top 5.

Because there are at least 5 players that are easily better than him.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Ray was never better than Iverson and they arguably were peaking during the same time.

How many of you actually watched Iverson play? My guess is not alot, ish is not very many.

Iverson was an MVP, top 3-5 player in the league for multiple years. Something Allen never was.

And before the stat geeks come in and try to diminish AI by saying he was inefficient there's a 2% difference in their career FG% and AI was a more all around player by a mile.

Iverson is a top 5 shooting guard in NBA history, who led his team to a finals berth, gave the 01 Lakers their only loss of the post season & Won an MVP over prime Shaq who is supposedly the MDE

Shaqs even said that Iverson is a top 5 player of ALL TIME
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SBZ2jlhwpR0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSBZ2jlhwpR0

[Greg Oden 50]

I know your trolling but dont be stupid that was rays team...theres a reason he was an all nba player that yr and scored the most/put up the best numbers on that team

come playoff time nobody elevated the bucks team like ray did

SAM WAS THE REASON BUCKS CAN GO TO THE CONFERNCE FINALS :banana:
AND RAY GUN FAIL TO LED SUPERSONICS,A LOSER IS A LOSER,HE ISA A POOR LEADER AS 1ST OPTIPN :banana:

[TonyMontana]

Ray was never better than Iverson and they arguably were peaking during the same time.

How many of you actually watched Iverson play? My guess is not alot, ish is not very many.

Iverson was an MVP, top 3-5 player in the league for multiple years. Something Allen never was.

And before the stat geeks come in and try to diminish AI by saying he was inefficient there's a 2% difference in their career FG% and AI was a more all around player by a mile.

Iverson is a top 5 shooting guard in NBA history, who led his team to a finals berth, gave the 01 Lakers their only loss of the post season & Won an MVP over prime Shaq who is supposedly the MDE

Shaqs even said that Iverson is a top 5 player of ALL TIME

Iverson is a one trick pony. He can only suceeed dominating the ball and you need a very specific type of team to cater to him(similar to Rose right now).

Ray Allen could create for himself as well as blend in to any possible lineup combination. It's the reason his career is still going despite being near 40 and the reason Iverson was out of the league before his 34th birthday.

As far as Iverson beating Allen in 2001...the Sixers featured the much better frontcourt with Mutombo who was the DPOY and premier defensive bigman in the NBA. He averaged 16.6 PPG and 15.6 RPG...He was dominant. Infnity times more valuable than Glenn Robinson and his one dimensional scoring combined with poor efficiency.

Finally that series was fixed by the refs. Other than LA/SAC in 2002, Game 6 was one of the worst officiated games of all-time. Just go to google and type in "2001 Eastern conference Finals". The first sugestion is "rigged". Here is Ray Allens thoughts on it.

""I think there's no question about that. The league, as a marketing machine, the bottom line is about making money," Allen said. "It behooves everybody for the league to make more money, and the league knows that Philadelphia is going to make more money with L.A. than we would with L.A."

Ray Allen is the best to ever play the position the way it was meant to be played.

[SamuraiSWISH]

TonyMontana: Where LeBron needed the GOAT SG, Ray Allen, arguable GOAT SG ... D. Wade, and a top 5 PF in Chris Bosh ... just to win 1.5 championships.

:oldlol:

Obvious, is obvious. Without that mega clutch Ray Allen in 3 pointer in game 6, when LeBron was choking the final quarter away yet again ... he solidified his spot all-time as the games greatest SG.

[Ariza4three]

Top 10 most def

[Boston C's]

Iverson is a one trick pony. He can only suceeed dominating the ball and you need a very specific type of team to cater to him(similar to Rose right now).

Ray Allen could create for himself as well as blend in to any possible lineup combination. It's the reason his career is still going despite being near 40 and the reason Iverson was out of the league before his 34th birthday.

As far as Iverson beating Allen in 2001...the Sixers featured the much better frontcourt with Mutombo who was the DPOY and premier defensive bigman in the NBA. He averaged 16.6 PPG and 15.6 RPG...He was dominant. Infnity times more valuable than Glenn Robinson and his one dimensional scoring combined with poor efficiency.

Finally that series was fixed by the refs. Other than LA/SAC in 2002, Game 6 was one of the worst officiated games of all-time. Just go to google and type in "2001 Eastern conference Finals". The first sugestion is "rigged". Here is Ray Allens thoughts on it.

""I think there's no question about that. The league, as a marketing machine, the bottom line is about making money," Allen said. "It behooves everybody for the league to make more money, and the league knows that Philadelphia is going to make more money with L.A. than we would with L.A."

Ray Allen is the best to ever play the position the way it was meant to be played.

Your almost right it was game 5 actually...two straight lane "violations" called on the bucks at the end of the game that cost them the game

[Boston C's]

SAM WAS THE REASON BUCKS CAN GO TO THE CONFERNCE FINALS :banana:
AND RAY GUN FAIL TO LED SUPERSONICS,A LOSER IS A LOSER,HE ISA A POOR LEADER AS 1ST OPTIPN :banana:

lol sure just tell yourself cassell did...btw if ray is a loser then what does that make reggie?

I love reggie so I hate that you forced me to do this because reggie is not a loser...but in your ridiculous criteria he is

[Boston C's]

Ray was never better than Iverson and they arguably were peaking during the same time.

How many of you actually watched Iverson play? My guess is not alot, ish is not very many.

Iverson was an MVP, top 3-5 player in the league for multiple years. Something Allen never was.

And before the stat geeks come in and try to diminish AI by saying he was inefficient there's a 2% difference in their career FG% and AI was a more all around player by a mile.

Iverson is a top 5 shooting guard in NBA history, who led his team to a finals berth, gave the 01 Lakers their only loss of the post season & Won an MVP over prime Shaq who is supposedly the MDE

Shaqs even said that Iverson is a top 5 player of ALL TIME
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SBZ2jlhwpR0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSBZ2jlhwpR0

I'm not sure who actually put ray above iverson on this thread I don't think that really came up until you did :confusedshrug: I have them both top 10 with iverson being higher

[TonyMontana]

TonyMontana: Where LeBron needed the GOAT SG, Ray Allen, arguable GOAT SG ... D. Wade, and a top 5 PF in Chris Bosh ... just to win 1.5 championships.

:oldlol:

Obvious, is obvious. Without that mega clutch Ray Allen in 3 pointer in game 6, when LeBron was choking the final quarter away yet again ... he solidified his spot all-time as the games greatest SG.

Ray Allens shot was great, but he solidified his career long before that. Him being so coveted by NBA teams at his age is a testament to his abilities. When Jordan was the same age, the only ones who wanted that sideshow attraction were irrelevant garbage such as the Wizards who just wanted to sell tickets. :oldlol:

Damn bringing up LeBron in a thread about SGs? You must be mad. :oldlol:

Ray Allen: 38 years old at the time, and a reserve
Wade: Shot less than 50% TS from the field, a liability more often than not
Bosh: Averaged 6 PPG, 7 RPG, and 24% shooting in must win Games 6 and 7 of the NBA Finas and ECF. :oldlol:

The Heat winning the championship despite this being the supporting cast is a testament to LeBrons greatness. Two consecutive Titles, MVPs, and Finals MVPs with one of the most underwhelming championship casts in the history of the league. :oldlol: He goes for his third in all categories next year, enjoy.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Ray Allens shot was great, but he solidified his career long before that. Him being so coveted by NBA teams at his age is a testament to his abilities. When Jordan was the same age, the only ones who wanted that sideshow attraction were irrelevant garbage such as the Wizards who just wanted to sell tickets. :oldlol:

Damn bringing up LeBron in a thread about SGs? You must be mad. :oldlol:

Ray Allen: 38 years old at the time, and a reserve
Wade: Shot less than 50% TS from the field, a liability more often than not
Bosh: Averaged 6 PPG, 7 RPG, and 24% shooting in must win Games 6 and 7 of the NBA Finas and ECF. :oldlol:

The Heat winning the championship despite this being the supporting cast is a testament to LeBrons greatness. Two consecutive Titles, MVPs, and Finals MVPs with one of the most underwhelming championship casts in the history of the league. :oldlol: He goes for his third in all categories next year, enjoy.
More than 1 :oldlol: ?

Yea, you're insecure.

Bro, you just claimed Ray Allen is the GOAT all-time at the SG position. You have no credibility.

I actually agree that if you were to teach a kid the position, I'd show him offensive tape of Reggie Miller and Ray Allen.

But best at his position? With guys like MJ, Kobe, West, Wade, and Drexler on the list? You're flat out nuts.

[TonyMontana]

More than 1 :oldlol: ?

Yea, you're insecure.

Bro, you just claimed Ray Allen is the GOAT all-time at the SG position. You have no credibility.

I actually agree that if you were to teach a kid the position, I'd show him offensive tape of Reggie Miller and Ray Allen.

But best at his position? With guys like MJ, Kobe, West, Wade, and Drexler on the list? You're flat out nuts.

Shooting guard is a role players position.

There has never been a shooting guard in the NBA that with his presence alone guarantees deep playoff runs and contender status. Never. Check out Jordans playoff record without Pippen, Kobes without a hall of fame prime center, or Wade without Shaq/LeBron.

Shaq, LeBron, Duncan, Bird,etc. These are guys that time and time again have changed the fortunes of franchises with their presence alone. If you have one of these guys on your team(and they're in their prime) your team is going to be a contender regardless of who else is on the team.

Ray Allen, is at least offensively the GOAT SG. He can mesh with any combination of players and be at his best. And that's what I want from my SG. A guy that can adjust to the other All NBA players in my frontcourt(where the game is really won).

[TheMarkMadsen]

Iverson is a one trick pony. He can only suceeed dominating the ball and you need a very specific type of team to cater to him(similar to Rose right now).

Ray Allen could create for himself as well as blend in to any possible lineup combination. It's the reason his career is still going despite being near 40 and the reason Iverson was out of the league before his 34th birthday.

As far as Iverson beating Allen in 2001...the Sixers featured the much better frontcourt with Mutombo who was the DPOY and premier defensive bigman in the NBA. He averaged 16.6 PPG and 15.6 RPG...He was dominant. Infnity times more valuable than Glenn Robinson and his one dimensional scoring combined with poor efficiency.

Finally that series was fixed by the refs. Other than LA/SAC in 2002, Game 6 was one of the worst officiated games of all-time. Just go to google and type in "2001 Eastern conference Finals". The first sugestion is "rigged". Here is Ray Allens thoughts on it.

""I think there's no question about that. The league, as a marketing machine, the bottom line is about making money," Allen said. "It behooves everybody for the league to make more money, and the league knows that Philadelphia is going to make more money with L.A. than we would with L.A."

Ray Allen is the best to ever play the position the way it was meant to be played.

Lol @ a Lebron fan tryin to dimish a player for being "ball dominant" & needing a specific type of team to cater to him.. You just described your favorite player, so how is that a knock on Iverson?

And please it's laughable to act like Rays still in the league and Iverson isn't because array can create for himself better. The reason Allen is still in the league is because he's still 6"6 and a spot up shooter. While Iverson is barely 6"0 and relied heavily on his speed/athleticism to be the player he was. Once he got older an lost that there wasn't much room for a 5'11 slasher with average athleticism.

And even with Allen's longevity he's still behind Iverson in all NBA teams, not to mention Iverson was the DEFINITION of a work hoarse and led the league in minutes per game 7 times. Allen's career HIGH in minutes per game is 40.3..

While Iverson's career AVERAGE in minutes per game is 41.1. Put that longevity into some context.

And if you honestly think David Stern fixed games in a way that would benefit his best friend Allen Iverson..Allen Iverson..then you need to re examine your thinking. Besides, there was a game 7 after that game 6 and the 76ers won that 108-91..pretty convincing win

Game 7:

Ray Allen: 26 points 2 boards & 6 assist on 44%

Allen Iverson: 44 points 6 boards 7 assist 2 steals on 52%

Yeah..you were saying?

[TonyMontana]

Lol @ a Lebron can tryin to dimish a player for being "ball dominant" & needing a specific type of team to cater to him.. You just described your favorite player, so how is that a knock on Iverson?

If Iverson had godlike efficiency like LeBron does then I'd take him too.

But in reality he doesn't, and a common habit of ball dominant scorers is that they have poor efficiency. LeBrons legendary efficiency is why he is the best.



And please it's laughable to act like Rays still in the league and Iverson isn't because array can create for himself better. The reason Allen is still in the league is because he's still 6"6 and a spot up shooter. While Iverson is barely 6"0 and relied heavily on his speed/athleticism to be the player he was. Once he got older an lost that there wasn't much room for a 5'11 slasher with average athleticism.

So what your saying is that size matters in basketball? I agree.

I laugh when people try to use size as an excuse to try and compensate for a players shortcomings. It's a flaw, not an excuse. Treat it accordingly.


And even with Allen's longevity he's still behind Iverson in all NBA teams, not to mention Iverson was the DEFINITION of a work hoarse and led the league in minutes per game 7 times. Allen's career HIGH in minutes per game is 40.3..

While Iverson's career AVERAGE in minutes per game is 41.1. Put that longevity into some context.

Cool.



And if you honestly think David Stern fixed games in a way that would benefit his best friend Allen Iverson..Allen Iverson..then you need to re examine your thinking. Besides, there was a game 7 after that game 6 and the 76ers won that 108-91..pretty convincing win

Game 7:

Ray Allen: 26 points 2 boards & 6 assist on 44%

Allen Iverson: 44 points 6 boards 7 assist 2 steals on 52%

Yeah..you were saying?

If the officiating was fair, there wouldn't have been a Game 7. The outcome of a game that should never have happened holds no merit.

[Young X]

Ray Allen, is at least offensively the GOAT SG:oldlol:

[Greg Oden 50]

lol sure just tell yourself cassell did...btw if ray is a loser then what does that make reggie?

I love reggie so I hate that you forced me to do this because reggie is not a loser...but in your ridiculous criteria he is

MILLER HYAS LED HIS TEAM TO THE FINALS AT LEAST 1 TIME,BUT RAY GUN :roll:

[aj1987]

Shooting guard is a role players position.

There has never been a shooting guard in the NBA that with his presence alone guarantees deep playoff runs and contender status. Never. Check out Jordans playoff record without Pippen, Kobes without a hall of fame prime center, or Wade without Shaq/LeBron.
What did Lebron win without Wade and with Shaq?