Correct me if I'm wrong but Greatest non-guard passers:

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt Chamberlain had the highest statistical peak of all non-guard passers when his role was a facilitator did he not? When asked to be the facilitator of his team on the 76ers he averaged:

1967 reg season:
*7.8 assists per game
*3rd in league assists per game
*3rd in total assists

1967 playoffs:
*9.0 assists per game
*2nd in assists per game
*1st in total assists

1968 reg season:
*8.6 assists per game
*2nd in league assists per game
*1st in total assists

1968 playoffs:
6.5 assists per game
*4th in assists per game
*3rd in total assists

Lebron's best assist per game season is tied with Wilt's best (8.6) but his 2nd best assist per game season is only 7.3 apg (last season) which is less than Wilt's 7.8. Lebron has never been higher than 5th in total assists for a season or 6th in assists per game. In the playoffs Lebron has never exceeded 8 assists per game, to Wilt's 9.

Assists in Wilt's era also were not given after a teammate dribbled unlike today where they count assists 'on the drive' so this generally negates any pace differences as evidenced that assist numbers today more or less appear to remain congruent with assist numbers back then. Wilt's peak when his role was that of a passer, netted him superior numbers to Lebron.

So anyone analysing film and data should be able to conclude this:

Best passing non-guard of all time visual eye-test:
Larry Bird

Best passing non-guard of all time numerical peak:
Wilt Chamberlain

Best passing non-guard of all time numerical longevity (when all is said and done based on his current pace):
Lebron James

Sound about right?

[Bibby4Three]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6xa_Pldz8c


Vlade tho.....

[TheReal Kendall]

Didn't ESPN say Lebron was the Greatest non-guard passer?


I don't think they would say that if it wasn't true

[9erempiree]

Era-Specific because when you are the tallest quarterback in history and looking over that small offensive line....you better believe it's easier for him to scan for open teammates.

[ZMonkey11]

I would tend to agree with you off of numbers. But there has been recordings saying that Wilt would not pass the ball to a teammate unless he

a) was a good shooter
b) would shoot the ball when passed to

Otherwise, you probably weren't going to get the ball because he wanted the assist stat.

But given, he did see the whole court because he was so tall and seemed to have a good IQ. So I'm not saying he was bad. Just that his assist stats were over inflated due to his temperament towards wanting stats.

[9erempiree]

Add Sabonis for bigs that can pass.

[Rose'sACL]

in all your posts you never consider that bird and wilt played in league which was way faster than the league lebron plays in.
stop ignoring the stats you don't like. tonymontana does that and i hate it. You are doing the same.

[CavaliersFTW]

Didn't ESPN say Lebron was the Greatest non-guard passer?


I don't think they would say that if it wasn't true
ESPN is a source for sports hype and gossip, not sports history or facts.

[TheReal Kendall]

I would tend to agree with you off of numbers. But there has been recordings saying that Wilt would not pass the ball to a teammate unless he

a) was a good shooter
b) would shoot the ball when passed to

Otherwise, you probably weren't going to get the ball because he wanted the assist stat.

But given, he did see the whole court because he was so tall and seemed to have a good IQ. So I'm not saying he was bad. Just that his assist stats were over inflated due to his temperament towards wanting stats.

What other reason is there to pass the ball?

If you on the court you wouldn't pass to the guy that can't hit the side of the barn.

Make the pass to the guy that will put the ball in the basketball.

[CavaliersFTW]

I would tend to agree with you off of numbers. But there has been recordings saying that Wilt would not pass the ball to a teammate unless he

a) was a good shooter
b) would shoot the ball when passed to

Otherwise, you probably weren't going to get the ball because he wanted the assist stat.

But given, he did see the whole court because he was so tall and seemed to have a good IQ. So I'm not saying he was bad. Just that his assist stats were over inflated due to his temperament towards wanting stats.
Yes, Wilt did that in 1968 season - not 67 though. It isn't unreasonable to conclude that Lebron is conscious of this too though, just like he and Wade have openly admitted to padding their fg% he's probably also conscious of this when generating assists. Padding stats is something a lot of players at the top do who are looking for an extra challenge or form of motivation during the regular season.

[Legends66NBA7]

ESPN is a source for sports hype and gossip, not sports history or facts.

Actually, they do have sports history and facts (infact, a lot of documentaries), but they need people to market agenda over that, so they only use selective criteria and programming.

[Rose'sACL]

What other reason is there to pass the ball?

If you on the court you wouldn't pass to the guy that can't hit the side of the barn.

Make the pass to the guy that will put the ball in the basketball.
you really have shit basketball knowledge or a really low IQ. if spurs played like this, they wouldn't have made finals this year.

[CavaliersFTW]

in all your posts you never consider that bird and wilt played in league which was way faster than the league lebron plays in.
stop ignoring the stats you don't like. tonymontana does that and i hate it. You are doing the same.
You must have glossed over the part where I did in fact acknowledge it actually... then I proceeded to explain why that is irrelevant to the assist numbers.

[Rose'sACL]

You must have glossed over the part where I did in fact acknowledge it actually... then I proceeded to explain why that is irrelevant to the assist numbers.
but it is not irrelevant and anyone with a brain who has watched NBA for longer than a few years will tell you the same.

[9erempiree]

The ball would run through the centers a majority of the time because they are tall and close to the basket. I am not surprised he got those assists. I'm not impressed to be honest.

It wasn't till the mid 70's and beyond that we started to see a PG play more of a distribution role.

At one time, the PG position was useless, they brought up the ball and immediately feed the center and that's when the team initiates it's offense.

[LikeABosh]

The competition was weak and the pace was ridiculously fast. /thread

[TheReal Kendall]

you really have shit basketball knowledge or a really low IQ. if spurs played like this, they wouldn't have made finals this year.

Basketball is simple bro.

Over thinking is why they lost also

[9erempiree]

The competition was weak and the pace was ridiculously fast. /thread

This is how they practiced back in the days.

http://www.thetallestman.com/images/jeanclaudelefebvre/jeanclaudelefebvre%20(4).jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

This is how they practiced back in the days.

http://www.thetallestman.com/images/jeanclaudelefebvre/jeanclaudelefebvre%20(4).jpg
Who's 'they'?

[Rose'sACL]

This is how they practiced back in the days.

http://www.thetallestman.com/images/jeanclaudelefebvre/jeanclaudelefebvre%20(4).jpg
i am laughing so hard at that guy behind the cutout.

[TheReal Kendall]

This is how they practiced back in the days.

http://www.thetallestman.com/images/jeanclaudelefebvre/jeanclaudelefebvre%20(4).jpg

:roll:


Pure comedy :applause:

[Trollsmasher]

50% usage and 130 pace:confusedshrug:

Also untrustworthy statistic records

[Young X]

Kevin Garnett.

[Fiba basketball]

Add Sabonis for bigs that can pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZSuksGMJY8

[SHAQisGOAT]

Plenty of times Wilt doesn't get enough recognition as a passer. Watching him it's clear to tell he was just a great passer and the numbers speak for themselves. One of the best passing bigman with a good case for the best.

As for greatest non-guard passer all-time: Bird. Those who've seen enough from him and know basketball can tell.


The ball would run through the centers a majority of the time because they are tall and close to the basket. I am not surprised he got those assists. I'm not impressed to be honest.

It wasn't till the mid 70's and beyond that we started to see a PG play more of a distribution role.

At one time, the PG position was useless, they brought up the ball and immediately feed the center and that's when the team initiates it's offense.

This mother****er still talking basketball, after being pretty much exposed?? :lol

[9erempiree]

This mother****er still talking basketball, after being pretty much exposed?? :lol

That's why I'm considered the best on here.

If peeps going to troll they need to learn from me.

[SyRyanYang]

Plenty of times Wilt doesn't get enough recognition as a passer. Watching him it's clear to tell he was just a great passer and the numbers speak for themselves. One of the best passing bigman with a good case for the best.

As for greatest non-guard passer all-time: Bird. Those who've seen enough from him and know basketball can tell.



This mother****er still talking basketball, after being pretty much exposed?? :lol

link please?

[G-train]

Wilt averaged 4.4 apg for career, and for 2 seasons he got 7.8 and 8.6.
Lebron James averaged 6.9 apg for career, over 7 apg five times, 8.6 once, and will probably average around 7 for a few more seasons.
On top of that he is a point forward, or basically a tall guard, handling the ball all game, dishing off the drive, fastbreak, high post, setting up offence, with a variety of passes from simple to complex.
I'd imagine Wilt simply stood in high post and dished to cutters with simple one had passes.

Is this a joke thread? Wilt isn't in discussion.
This numerical peak is pointless. He basically did it out of spite for people dogging him for being selfish. Lebron could drop down his points and average 10 apg if he wanted to as well.

[QuebecBaller]

Darko > Divac > Sabonis > the rest

[avonbarksdale]

wow wilt how did i know!

[rhowen4]

wow wilt how did i know!
i already knew as well. do you think they'll supply a chart of all passes wilt could make from anywhere on the court? then we could compare that chart to someone like lebron james with a slightly transparent lebron james overlay. i would like that.

it really makes sense that wilt is the greatest non-guard passer ever since his incredible wingspan makes every pass that much shorter of a distance to complete.

[pauk]

What do you mean by non-guards? SG's are guards yes, but traditionally imo they have as much/as little facilitating/passing responsibilities & passing skills as the other non-PG positions (identical to SF's at least).... Bird is not just like that the greatest passer "visually" because its extremly contestable, not only because of Lebron, you could also include guys like Penny Hardaway & Pete Maravich (that guy is perhaps the most innovate passer ever) and perhaps some others.... if you went with "I think / my opinion is Bird is a better/best non-guard passer" (again, non-guard? what SG was unquestionably a better passer than him anyways? so dont be afraid to use instead "non-PG") then it becomes a more acceptably rational assessment because he certainly is up there...

...and Wilt statistically was the best facilitator only if you exclude a couple of other stats such as pace or poss. per min.... its not like his pace / poss. per min. was so much ridicilously higher than any player/team today because of his epic talent/skills, all other teams averaged much more pace / poss. per min in the 60s compared to today afterall.... i have my opinion on why that is, but i wont get into that debate, its a very sensitive subject.. lets just say the eras were different...

[La Frescobaldi]

The ball would run through the centers a majority of the time because they are tall and close to the basket. I am not surprised he got those assists. I'm not impressed to be honest.

It wasn't till the mid 70's and beyond that we started to see a PG play more of a distribution role.

At one time, the PG position was useless, they brought up the ball and immediately feed the center and that's when the team initiates it's offense.
you are the same guy in a current thread who says he has been watching the NBA for 25 years.

[La Frescobaldi]

What do you mean by non-guards? SG's are guards yes, but traditionally imo they have as much/as little facilitating/passing responsibilities & passing skills as the other non-PG positions (identical to SF's at least).... Bird is not just like that the greatest passer "visually" because its extremly contestable, not only because of Lebron, you could also include guys like Penny Hardaway & Pete Maravich (that guy is perhaps the most innovate passer ever) and perhaps some others.... if you went with "I think / my opinion is Bird is a better/best non-guard passer" (again, non-guard? what SG was unquestionably a better passer than him anyways? so dont be afraid to use instead "non-PG") then it becomes a more acceptably rational assessment because he certainly is up there...

...and Wilt statistically was the best facilitator only if you exclude a couple of other stats such as pace or poss. per min.... its not like his pace / poss. per min. was so much ridicilously higher than any player/team today because of his epic talent/skills, all other teams averaged much more pace / poss. per min in the 60s compared to today afterall.... i have my opinion on why that is, but i wont get into that debate, its a very sensitive subject.. lets just say the eras were different...
So were the rules on assists. Drastically different.

[bdreason]

Shaq was a great passer. His assists weren't that high because it was always the second pass out of the double that was wide open.

The hockey-assist stat would be more relevant for bigs than assists.

[pudman13]

They don't have large numbers of assists, but you have to include Wes Unseld and Bill Walton on this list. Also, if we're talking all forwards rather than merely "big men", how about Baylor and, especially, Rick Barry?

[Nash]

Stop putting Wilt's performances in the context of todays basketball. The man himself has said that today is a different world with all the knowledge about the game and all the nutrition and training regimen that they have available today which they never had back then.

[Dr.J4ever]

Assists are way over rated as a stat to look at . Having a high assist total doesnt mean you facilitate team play or you are not selfish. Equally important is the pass that leads to the assist pass. A good example of a selfish player who stunted his team mates scoring but who personally had a high assist avrg : iverson. There are many others.

[La Frescobaldi]

Assists are way over rated as a stat to look at . Having a high assist total doesnt mean you facilitate team play or you are not selfish. Equally important is the pass that leads to the assist pass. A good example of a selfish player who stunted his team mates scoring but who personally had a high assist avrg : iverson. There are many others.

All that, and more too; another different example is 2013 Rubio, who was throwing just beautiful passes, perfectly located for the guy to shoot....... and they either dropped the ball with their stone hands or bricked it wide open off the top of the backboard. "And there's another amazing assist thrown right in the toilet....."
Wolves were mighty painful to watch except for AK47 and Pekovic who were constantly guarded, full throttle, just as closely as possible by NBA players. Guys would sag clear off Luke the Bricklayer from Downtown Ridnour or Chris Hands of Stone Johnson - or all those other D league up and down elevator riders the Wolves had to sign to 10 day contracts because their whole roster was DNP-injury.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wilt Chamberlain had the highest statistical peak of all non-guard passers when his role was a facilitator did he not?
Wilt's peak AST%: 23.2
Bird's peak AST%: 28.9
Lebron's peak AST%: 41.8

http://25.media.tumblr.com/b98fb668276222eb6bfb6ebcee4bf11c/tumblr_mq74ybxjDI1sytl6zo1_1280.jpg

[Legends66NBA7]

Stop putting Wilt's performances in the context of todays basketball. The man himself has said that today is a different world with all the knowledge about the game and all the nutrition and training regimen that they have available today which they never had back then.

Um, when did Wilt say that about TODAY'S game ? It's completely different from the 90's, when Wilt passed away. If your going to quote the man, at least put down a link of when he said this.

And putting context of Wilt's performance in today's game is completely logical. The man would still dominate the game of basketball in today's era or whichever era.

[secund2nun]

Back then the pace was much faster. Also the league was full of unathletic white scrubs that would be chemistry teachers today, not NBA players.

When adjusted for these 2 factors Lebron probably would have averaged 13 apg back then....well actually Lebron would literally just drive in and score every time back then....so you are right, Wilt would still have more assists than Lebron.

[secund2nun]

Wilt's peak AST%: 23.2
Bird's peak AST%: 28.9
Lebron's peak AST%: 41.8

http://25.media.tumblr.com/b98fb668276222eb6bfb6ebcee4bf11c/tumblr_mq74ybxjDI1sytl6zo1_1280.jpg

/End thread

[jongib369]

Wilt's peak AST%: 23.2
Bird's peak AST%: 28.9
Lebron's peak AST%: 41.8

http://25.media.tumblr.com/b98fb668276222eb6bfb6ebcee4bf11c/tumblr_mq74ybxjDI1sytl6zo1_1280.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/be2576510c6c3503d5ce39400f68e025/tumblr_msigoiguAe1sh2m0jo1_400.gif

[Hoopz2332]

Wilt's peak AST%: 23.2
Bird's peak AST%: 28.9
Lebron's peak AST%: 41.8

http://25.media.tumblr.com/b98fb668276222eb6bfb6ebcee4bf11c/tumblr_mq74ybxjDI1sytl6zo1_1280.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/7OolPmR.gif

[jongib369]

*bump

[Aussie Dunker]

Someone who will get no love in this thread purely because he is not a "sexy" option not was he a star - but Toni Kukoc was the best non guard passer I have ever seen...

[Psileas]

Wilt's peak AST%: 23.2
Bird's peak AST%: 28.9
Lebron's peak AST%: 41.8

http://25.media.tumblr.com/b98fb668276222eb6bfb6ebcee4bf11c/tumblr_mq74ybxjDI1sytl6zo1_1280.jpg

I'm never again going to put Bird and LeBron as passers in the same sentence. Thanks for posting this uber-meaningful stat.
Also, I'm never again going to put Wilt and Sabonis as passers in the same sentence

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt's peak AST%: 23.2
Bird's peak AST%: 28.9
Lebron's peak AST%: 41.8

http://25.media.tumblr.com/b98fb668276222eb6bfb6ebcee4bf11c/tumblr_mq74ybxjDI1sytl6zo1_1280.jpg


Once again... AST% is a joke stat.

Bird. 39.3 mpg, 7.5 apg, on a team that averaged 29.5 apg, in a league that averaged 24.9 apg per team. League leader was Stockton at 14.5 apg. I couldn't begin to tell you where Bird finished, but he wasn't top-10 (10th was at 8.1 apg.)

Lebron. 39.0 mpg, 8.6 apg, on a team that averaged 22.4 apg, in a league that averaged 21.2 apg per team. League leader was Nash at 11.0 apg (and in only 32.8 mpg btw.) Lebron finished at 6th.

Wilt. 46.8 mpg, 8.6 apg, on a team that averaged 26.8 apg, in a league that averaged 22.8 apg per team. League leader was Oscar at 9.7 apg. Wilt finished in 2nd.

The numbers look considerably closer don't they.


These "advanced" stats need to be looked at in context. The Wilt-bashers always bring up "pace" to use against his scoring and rebounding numbers, but they will never mention league average in terms of apg, FG%, or TS%.

[La Frescobaldi]

Once again... AST% is a joke stat.

Bird. 39.3 mpg, 7.5 apg, on a team that averaged 29.5 apg, in a league that averaged 24.9 apg per team. League leader was Stockton at 14.5 apg. I couldn't begin to tell you where Bird finished, but he wasn't top-10 (10th was at 8.1 apg.)

Lebron. 39.0 mpg, 8.6 apg, on a team that averaged 22.4 apg, in a league that averaged 21.2 apg per team. League leader was Nash at 11.0 apg (and in only 32.8 mpg btw.) Lebron finished at 6th.

Wilt. 46.8 mpg, 8.6 apg, on a team that averaged 26.8 apg, in a league that averaged 22.8 apg per team. League leader was Oscar at 9.7 apg. Wilt finished in 2nd.

The numbers look considerably closer don't they.


These "advanced" stats need to be looked at in context. The Wilt-bashers always bring up "pace" to use against his scoring and rebounding numbers, but they will never mention league average in terms of apg, FG%, or TS%.
too advanced for ish pards

[pauk]

Just one important thing... dont do the massive mistake of forgetting Magic Johnson when talking about "Highest APG by non-PG"..... some people dont know or forget that Magic didnt touch the PG position his first 4 seasons, he actually started/played SF/SG, Norm Nixon was the starting PG all the time until he was gone in 1983-84, Magic was playing exactly like Lebron with Mo Williams / Chalmers or whatever, point-forward..... the point is that even "Highest APG by non-PG" category belongs to Magic, he managed 10.5 APG starting SG/SF every single game... take that... :)

[jlip]

For all of those who use pace as an argument, the highest era for assists was 1980-1994. No season from the 60's is even in the top 20.

[Ikill]

Lebron handles the ball just as much as a pg why would you say Lebron is the best non point guard passer when he is a point guard.

[La Frescobaldi]

Just one important thing... dont do the massive mistake of forgetting Magic Johnson when talking about "Highest APG by non-PG"..... some people dont know or forget that Magic didnt touch the PG position his first 4 seasons, he actually started/played SF/SG, Norm Nixon was the starting PG all the time until he was gone in 1983-84, Magic was playing exactly like Lebron with Mo Williams / Chalmers or whatever, point-forward..... the point is that even "Highest APG by non-PG" category belongs to Magic, he managed 10.5 APG starting SG/SF every single game... take that... :)

Irrelevant. OP specifically says non-guard. Yeah he started some games as a "forward" but in reality the Lakers were playing 3 guards. Small ball doesn't even exist when it's Magic Johnson.

[oolalaa]

Lmao, Wilt was not a better passer than Walton, or Duncan, or Garnett, or Webber to name just a few.

Just because his role on the '67 & '68 Sixers was to catch the ball in the mid post, dump it off to the nearest teammate, and watch him drain a 20 footer, does not mean he was the GOAT passing big-man.

And he didn't even have the "best numerical peak". The AST% is right there, the pace massively inflated his assists totals - Wilt was at 22/23 during his peak. Garnett was at 24-27% during his peak, Duncan posted a 25.5% during the '03 playoffs (whilst being his teams only real scoring threat), Walton was at 23% in '78 before he went down and that doesn't include his all time great outlet passing (which Wilt refused to utilize during his peak, because, you know, you don't get an assist for a great outlet pass), Webber had a peak of 24.6%, even Pau Gasol posted a 23.7% in '06.

And don't get me started on Bird (26+% during his peak without monopolizing the ball) or Lebron (40% whilst monopolizing the ball).

And what about Barkley or Shaq or Hakeem who were always burdened with the task of being their teams leading scorer?

And what about Pippen or Rick Barry?


The eyes tell me Bird, the numbers tell me Lebron.

[oolalaa]

Once again... AST% is a joke stat.

Bird. 39.3 mpg, 7.5 apg, on a team that averaged 29.5 apg, in a league that averaged 24.9 apg per team. League leader was Stockton at 14.5 apg. I couldn't begin to tell you where Bird finished, but he wasn't top-10 (10th was at 8.1 apg.)

Lebron. 39.0 mpg, 8.6 apg, on a team that averaged 22.4 apg, in a league that averaged 21.2 apg per team. League leader was Nash at 11.0 apg (and in only 32.8 mpg btw.) Lebron finished at 6th.

Wilt. 46.8 mpg, 8.6 apg, on a team that averaged 26.8 apg, in a league that averaged 22.8 apg per team. League leader was Oscar at 9.7 apg. Wilt finished in 2nd.

The numbers look considerably closer don't they.


These "advanced" stats need to be looked at in context. The Wilt-bashers always bring up "pace" to use against his scoring and rebounding numbers, but they will never mention league average in terms of apg, FG%, or TS%.

The op said that Wilt had the best "numerical peak", by which he meant nothing more than the highest assist per game totals. AST% is clearly the best way to work out who had the best relative apg totals adjusted for minutes and more importantly pace.

So much ****ing denial.

[Psileas]

Lmao, Wilt was not a better passer than Walton, or Duncan, or Garnett, or Webber to name just a few.

Just because his role on the '67 & '68 Sixers was to catch the ball in the mid post, dump it off to the nearest teammate, and watch him drain a 20 footer, does not mean he was the GOAT passing big-man.

And he didn't even have the "best numerical peak". The AST% is right there, the pace massively inflated his assists totals - Wilt was at 22/23 during his peak. Garnett was at 24-27% during his peak, Duncan posted a 25.5% during the '03 playoffs (whilst being his teams only real scoring threat), Walton was at 23% in '78 before he went down and that doesn't include his all time great outlet passing (which Wilt refused to utilize during his peak, because, you know, you don't get an assist for a great outlet pass), Webber had a peak of 24.6%, even Pau Gasol posted a 23.7% in '06.

And don't get me started on Bird (26+% during his peak without monopolizing the ball) or Lebron (40% whilst monopolizing the ball).

And what about Barkley or Shaq or Hakeem who were always burdened with the task of being their teams leading scorer?

And what about Pippen or Rick Barry?


The eyes tell me Bird, the numbers tell me Lebron.

As if you’ve seen Wilt play and you’re qualified to tell others to whom he was a superior/inferior passer. Wilt might not be a better passer than Walton or Webber, but he was still in their league as one of the best big passers to have ever lived, and people who have actually watched him play will tell you so. And no, he didn’t become a great passer late on, either, he was very capable since before joining the NBA, as one of the very few big men who were keen on performing passes behind the back, pass in the air while faking the shot, etc, and this was happening without Wilt having other big guys before him or with him to study and copy. After all, it’s hard not to have great passing skills and still be recruited by the prime Globetrotters, let alone have plays drawn that use a 7-1 center as a PG. Even more, it’s hard not to have great passing skills and still be that same big man who is asked to become the ultimate facilitator, and this happening immediately following the highest scoring seasons ever seen.

And let’s not pretend that his only high passing seasons happened in ’67 and ’68. He was averaging 4+ apg year in and year out from 1964 and on except in 1965. And before you cry “pace!”, the same pace applied for everyone, pace does NOT benefit big men, since they are the ones who control the ball less than anyone else, let alone the ones bringing the ball down and Wilt was still averaging 3.4+ apg per 36 mins in each of the seasons I mentioned save 1965, which is a very good figure for a big man, especially when assists were tougher to be credited back then. Case in point: The 1967 Sixers were one of the greatest teams ever, yet their assist/FGM ratio was only .547, while the freakin’ 2012 Bobcats, with the worst winning record ever, posted a .605. Lol, even if the Sixers were making a team effort as bad as the Bobcats, but Wilt passed as much as he did and they kept assists the same way they keep with the Bobcats, Wilt would have 8.6 apg in 1967.

Assist % is flawed, since it hinders the fact that a team may consist of multiple good passers or have plays heavily PG-oriented, which will deflate the passing numbers of some of them. It’s also flawed since it doesn’t take into account what I mentioned right before, which means that by today’s standards, players’ ast% in the 60's were deflated. Again, Wilt playing for a team that counts their assists like the 2012 Bobcats would be averaging an ast% of 24.0 instead of 21.7. BTW, even with ast% taken into account, Wilt was still top-10 in the league in both 1967 and 1968, and this is a guy who very rarely rested and his ast% figures mean way more than what they would mean for a 20-25 mpg player, like '67 Abdul-Rahman. Needless to say, Wilt still led all big men in that category, with Bill Russell only finishing 17th in the league, despite being known as a great big passer as well, who actually happened to post an APG and an ast% career-high that same season.
Of course, going by your assist % logic, Russell wasn't that great of a big man passer either, and, like I mentioned in my previous post, Sabonis has no job being discussed among the best big men passers ever, since his assist %’s were nowhere near the players you mentioned. And Sabonis played with the modern pace and the modern rules...Yet, people who have seen him play KNOW he was among the best. Same with Wilt. People who have seen him play don’t need numbers (let alone “advanced stats”) to confirm what they already know.

PS. Just to add something more:


(which Wilt refused to utilize during his peak, because, you know, you don't get an assist for a great outlet pass),

A blatant lie on your part, but this is very expected and hardly surprising.

[EllEffEll]

For me, Walton deserves to be high on the list.

I had went to tons of games the first four years of Magic's career. including having a season ticket in 82-83. Nixon was listed as the PG and he did bring the ball up the court many times and would at best share duties with Magic, but make no mistake that Magic was the stick that stirred that drink and facilitated the action. Nixon would also lurk out on the perimeter and have the ball kicked back out to him to take his jumper. Labels be damned.

The Heat's offense goes through LeBron as well. LeBron's role doesn't really fit into traditional roles either, so while I see them as similar in that regard, I don't rate his passing anywhere near what I do for Magic.

Two different players in that matter. Both amazing in their own unique way. LeBron gets it done by kicking the door down and beasting his way around. Magic would fake you into opening the door for him and then blow past while you were searching the floor to find your now missing athletic supporter.

The premise of this thread can be endlessly debated because there is not one unanimously supported definition of 'greatest' when it comes to 'passing the ball' in the NBA. Your criteria may be different from mine, and who is to say which is the correct definition?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Wilt made losing cool before Iverson did.

[wally_world]

SGs: Michael Ray / Ginobili
SFs: Bird / LeBron
PFs: Webber / KG / Diaw / Odom
Cs: Sabonis / Divac / Bill Russell / Bill Walton maybe even Hakeem

In my opinion that will be the ultimate passing players, sticking strictly to positions. There aren't many great passing SGs other than Michael Ray Richardson, but Ginobili is the closest I can find in terms of passing creativity.




Slightly off topic but imagine this team:

Nash / Kidd
Magic / Pistol Pete
Bird / Ginobili
Webber / Diaw
Sabonis / Divac

Not just the best passers, but the flashiest and most precise passing team. They'll be so much fun to watch!

[pauk]

For me, Walton deserves to be high on the list.

I had went to tons of games the first four years of Magic's career. including having a season ticket in 82-83. Nixon was listed as the PG and he did bring the ball up the court many times and would at best share duties with Magic, but make no mistake that Magic was the stick that stirred that drink and facilitated the action. Nixon would also lurk out on the perimeter and have the ball kicked back out to him to take his jumper. Labels be damned.

The Heat's offense goes through LeBron as well. LeBron's role doesn't really fit into traditional roles either, so while I see them as similar in that regard, I don't rate his passing anywhere near what I do for Magic.

Two different players in that matter. Both amazing in their own unique way. LeBron gets it done by kicking the door down and beasting his way around. Magic would fake you into opening the door for him and then blow past while you were searching the floor to find your now missing athletic supporter.

The premise of this thread can be endlessly debated because there is not one unanimously supported definition of 'greatest' when it comes to 'passing the ball' in the NBA. Your criteria may be different from mine, and who is to say which is the correct definition?

:bowdown: