Eric Spolestra says LeBron most deserving of DPOY this year...

[russwest0]

before the season has even started...

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[#number6ix#]

I can dig it

[Eric Cartman]

Saying that reveals that Lebron's own game can't prove the sufficient evidence to crown him as DPOY. Coach tries some silly, PR, marketing stunt in hopes that the general public gets riled up.

[kNicKz]

His play tonight probably got him a lock for it

[russwest0]

It's just pathetic.

Miamis coach trying to persuade the media to give LeBron the DPOY before the season starts

[kNicKz]

It's just pathetic.

Miamis coach trying to persuade the media to give LeBron the DPOY before the season starts

He just won it. Accept that and move forward

[Skip Bayless]

Media hype starts already. Damn shame.

[DaSeba5]

A coach talks up his own player? That bastard!

[russwest0]

He just won it. Accept that and move forward

:rant
:rant
:rant

[russwest0]

A coach talks up his own player? That bastard!

I'm sorry, when was the last time a coach called for his player to be MVP before the season started?

It's a joke how much LeBron needs his coaches/peers to talk up his overrated defense in addition to the media overrating it as well.

Everyone who knew a damn about basketball last year knew that he was coming off arguably his worst defensive season as a pro and didn't belong near being DPOY and was still #2 in the voting

[aj1987]

I'm sorry, when was the last time a coach called for his player to be MVP before the season started?
Link to the article/video?

[russwest0]

Link to the article/video?

It's the article on NBA.com called "LEBRON FOR DPOY!"

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/10/07/spoelstra-lebron-for-dpoy/

[kamil]

LOL, LeBron's* defensive game has never been DPOY worthy. Dude is a scrub in that department.

[DaSeba5]

I'm sorry, when was the last time a coach called for his player to be MVP before the season started?

It's a joke how much LeBron needs his coaches/peers to talk up his overrated defense in addition to the media overrating it as well.

Everyone who knew a damn about basketball last year knew that he was coming off arguably his worst defensive season as a pro and didn't belong near being DPOY and was still #2 in the voting

He's an average man to man defender, but one of the best team defenders.

He doesn't need anything. This is a non-story. LeBron won't win DPOY unless he really deserves it.

[Eric Cartman]

LOL, LeBron's* defensive game has never been DPOY worthy. Dude is a scrub in that department.

Above average, but there are easily 7-8 guys ahead of him so why should he be in the discussion.

Also if Dwight plays to his former self he won't have any real competition for the award.

[KyleKong]

LOL, LeBron's* defensive game has never been DPOY worthy. Dude is a scrub in that department.

http://fireden.net/4chan/images.4chan.org//vg/src/1370024510447.gif

[russwest0]

Above average, but there are easily 7-8 guys ahead of him so why should he be in the discussion.

Also if Dwight plays to his former self he won't have any real competition for the award.

Hell I can name 7 better defenders only using the center position..

Dwight
Noah
Hibbert
Duncan
Chandler
Gasol
Sanders

[G-Funk]

:facepalm

[G-Funk]

not worthy at all

[9erempiree]

The campaign begins before the season even started?

Phil never started a campaign for Kobe and MJ. They had to earn their achievements.

:facepalm

[Jameerthefear]

Meh. He has the hype to win it, but he's never been the best defender in the league imo.

[zoom17]

The campaign begins before the season even started?

Phil never started a campaign for Kobe and MJ. They had to earn their achievements.

:facepalm

:facepalm You guys always bring kobe into this and why are there bunch of kobe stans always in lebron threads and when lebron fans go to Kobe threads you guys whine like bitches.

[KyleKong]

The campaign begins before the season even started?

Phil never started a campaign for Kobe and MJ. They had to earn their achievements.

:facepalm

First off, you never watched MJ play.

Second off, Kobe never won the DPOY award and is the most overrated defender in modern history.

[kamil]

:facepalm You guys always bring kobe into this and why are there bunch of kobe stans always in lebron threads and when lebron fans go to Kobe threads you guys whine like bitches.

Quit being an apologist. You know damn well LeBron* is a cheap shortcutting bitch.

[SIRI1]

[QUOTE]

[wfb]

Why is trolling allowed in ISH, its self defeating. Sigh

[DaSeba5]

Why is trolling allowed in ISH, its self defeating. Sigh

Because the mods don't have the power to ban people, and when people are banned, it's usually not permanent.

[russwest0]

He aint lying :confusedshrug:

Are you saying that LeBron is a better defender than

Dwight
Noah
Hibbert
Duncan
Chandler
Gasol
Sanders

???

I don't see their coaches campaigning them for DPOY before the season even starts

[zoom17]

Quit being an apologist. You know damn well LeBron* is a cheap shortcutting bitch.

He keeps winning every year and making you mad just accept greatness bro

http://images.ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/iM0ZAx7ZydNC3.gif

[zoom17]

Are you saying that LeBron is a better defender than

Dwight
Noah
Hibbert
Duncan
Chandler
Gasol
Sanders

???

Chandler :oldlol:

[Jameerthefear]

He aint lying :confusedshrug:
He definitely has the potential. We'll see though. He's never been the most impactful defender in the league though, and sometimes Wade outplays him defensively (which isn't anything bad just saying)

[DaSeba5]

Are you saying that LeBron is a better defender than

Dwight
Noah
Hibbert
Duncan
Chandler
Gasol
Sanders

???

I don't see their coaches campaigning them for DPOY before the season even starts

Is Spo supposed to say "LeBron is a great defender, but I can name a lot of players over him defensively?"

I really think this is a non-story and pointless to get worked up over.

[Greg Oden 50]

He keeps winning every year and making you mad just accept greatness bro

http://images.ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/iM0ZAx7ZydNC3.gif

NOTHING MORE THAN a HYPE STARS = DAVID STERN'S SON:banana:

[Skip Bayless]

Next to Bill Lambier, LeBron is the most overrated defender ever.

[KyleKong]

Quit being an apologist. You know damn well LeBron* is a cheap shortcutting bitch.

http://i.imgur.com/TuGvM0y.gif

[SIRI1]

Are you saying that LeBron is a better defender than

Dwight
Noah
Hibbert
Duncan
Chandler
Gasol
Sanders

???

I don't see their coaches campaigning them for DPOY before the season even starts
He isnt campaigning. He was asked on Media day what else Lebron can accomplish and he brought up winning DPOY. And Spo didnt lie. He's been right there in terms of DPOY voting the past few years and he has the potential to win it, but he has to earn it.

[zoom17]

http://i.imgur.com/YOHQA.jpg

[zoom17]

http://i.imgur.com/1xxoU.jpg

[zoom17]

http://i.imgur.com/8dKLo.gif

[zoom17]

http://i.imgur.com/zLXcA.gif

[KyleKong]

http://i.imgur.com/cgbs9sh.gif

[9erempiree]

I get joy from gifs. :banana:

Why are so many Lebron fans angry?

[KyleKong]

I get joy from gifs. :banana:

Why are so many Lebron fans angry?

I get joy from this.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242452

[Skip Bayless]

Blocks Thiago Splitter, named greatest defender In the league.

[DaSeba5]

I get joy from gifs. :banana:

Why are so many Lebron fans angry?

Why are all of your posts about Kobe?

[zoom17]

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5773/kobelebron.gif

[Greg Oden 50]

http://i.imgur.com/YOHQA.jpg

OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE

[zoom17]

http://i.imgur.com/ckST2.gif

[9erempiree]

I get joy from this.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242452

I love it too. That's why people say I'm the best on ISH. You noobs can learn the art.

My baits are tasty.

:cheers:

[KyleKong]

OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE OVERHYPE

http://www.lolife.com/blog/capslock.png

[9erempiree]

I got to give props to the OP.

I may pass the torch to him.

Lebron fans bit the bait. A response from every view.

Big dap.

[Le Shaqtus]

If Dwight is 100% (which he should be) he'll be a lock to win it again.

[Skip Bayless]

Head band falls off ugly face, game 6 gets named "Head band game".

[DaSeba5]

If Dwight is 100% (which he should be) he'll be a lock to win it again.

Agreed

[9erempiree]

If Dwight is 100% (which he should be) he'll be a lock to win it again.

He's too focused on post moves this year. People have been dissing for his lack of moves, so I think he's going to bust out those moves.

[zoom17]

This is a classic
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/1000/kobevslebron.gif

[9erempiree]

Head band falls off ugly face, game 6 gets named "Head band game".

There's only so far a headband can go up on your head. It's bound to fall off.

[zoom17]

Head band falls off ugly face, game 6 gets named "Head band game".

The Real skip bayless is smarter than you:roll: :roll:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1307888/skip-bayless-dougie-o.gif

[Jameerthefear]

If Dwight is 100% (which he should be) he'll be a lock to win it again.
Leshaqtus I haven't seen you in a while :eek:

[Skip Bayless]

Does same one handed power dunk, gets number 1 play on top 10. Stuart Scott shakes head during broadcast break.

[zoom17]

Does same one handed power dunk, gets number 1 play on top 10. Stuart Scott shakes head during broadcast break.

You jealous Deal with

http://www.courtsideblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/lebronwadedunk.png

[Skip Bayless]

The Real skip bayless is smarter than you:roll: :roll:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1307888/skip-bayless-dougie-o.gif

LeBron wins 2 asterisk titles, media hypes it, fans like this (^^^^) are created.

[zoom17]

LeBron wins 2 asterisk titles, media hypes it, fans like this (^^^^) are created.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1307888/skip-bayless-dougie-o.gif

[Greg Oden 50]

http://www.lolife.com/blog/capslock.png

LEBRON CAN'T EVEN STOP LEONARD :roll:

[poido123]

I would say that Lebron is an average to below average man defender. He is an elite help defender and team defender, cuts off passing lanes well, runs down guys and block them, good at sliding accross and helping teammates on an offensive player, and of course his versatility to guard guys outside of his own position.

To be a DPOY, you need to be a good to elite man defender as well as help/team defender to win the award. Maybe they might make exception to Lebron, since he can be so versatile, but yeah the main knock on him is his man defense.

[plowking]

Best man defender and team defender in the league. He should get it.

[poido123]

Best man defender and team defender in the league. He should get it.

:eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmY3WrDyhzE

Lebron mainly due to size and weight cannot stay in front of quicker small forwards and of course guards...Off the ball he often loses his man too.

If you want to credit him for say, defending Rose really well in 2011? That's true, but that was team defense, sliding accross and cohersing Rose into the help defense. Lebron cannot stay in front of Rose if it was 1 on 1.

As mentioned by a poster above, Lebron also had trouble staying in front of Leonard in the finals, which brings me to the point that he has trouble staying with quicker SF's.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Best man defender
:rolleyes:

[DaSeba5]

I would say that Lebron is an average to below average man defender. He is an elite help defender and team defender, cuts off passing lanes well, runs down guys and block them, good at sliding accross and helping teammates on an offensive player, and of course his versatility to guard guys outside of his own position.

To be a DPOY, you need to be a good to elite man defender as well as help/team defender to win the award. Maybe they might make exception to Lebron, since he can be so versatile, but yeah the main knock on him is his man defense.

This is spot on.

[Young X]

Defense is the most overrated part of LeMediaHype's game. What argument does he have over KG, Duncan, Dwight, Asik, Noah, etc in terms of limiting the other teams offense? I can name 20 defenders better than Bron, he's not even the best perimeter defender.

[poido123]

This is spot on.

:cheers:

If he improves that aspect of his game(although not that bad), no reason he couldn't win 3 DPOY's by the time he retires..

[KyleKong]

I would say that Lebron is an average to below average man defender. He is an elite help defender and team defender, cuts off passing lanes well, runs down guys and block them, good at sliding accross and helping teammates on an offensive player, and of course his versatility to guard guys outside of his own position.

To be a DPOY, you need to be a good to elite man defender as well as help/team defender to win the award. Maybe they might make exception to Lebron, since he can be so versatile, but yeah the main knock on him is his man defense.

This can end the thread.

[Skip Bayless]

Best man defender and team defender in the league.

:oldlol:

[aj1987]

Well said, poido123. You are a pretty good poster when you're not hating on the Heat :D.


Back to the topic:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1667652-the-definitive-case-for-lebron-james-as-the-nbas-best-defensive-player
http://deadspin.com/lebron-james-is-a-better-defender-than-the-computerized-456410614

[poido123]

Well said, poido123. You are a pretty good poster when you're not hating on the Heat :D.


Back to the topic:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1667652-the-definitive-case-for-lebron-james-as-the-nbas-best-defensive-player
http://deadspin.com/lebron-james-is-a-better-defender-than-the-computerized-456410614

If you notice when I start being rather negative towards heat opinion, it usually involves Numbersix, Tony Montana or Silk. The rest of you guys are either bearable or quite good posters which I will not troll or be offensive to..

I have noticed you post and you are quite reasonable in most threads.

But of course, it comes natural as a Bulls fan to root against the Heat. They are after all our arch enemy on the court. :pimp:

[plowking]

:eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmY3WrDyhzE

Lebron mainly due to size and weight cannot stay in front of quicker small forwards and of course guards...Off the ball he often loses his man too.

If you want to credit him for say, defending Rose really well in 2011? That's true, but that was team defense, sliding accross and cohersing Rose into the help defense. Lebron cannot stay in front of Rose if it was 1 on 1.

As mentioned by a poster above, Lebron also had trouble staying in front of Leonard in the finals, which brings me to the point that he has trouble staying with quicker SF's.

Who cares about highlight clips?
I can show you clips of him locking people up on defense for certain plays. I can show you clips of Gary Payton, Scottie Pippen, Michael Cooper, Michael Jordan, etc all getting done on plays on defense.

You can also look at advanced and basic statistics on the synergy website showing Lebron was probably the best 1 on 1 defender in the league statistically about 2 or 3 years ago. No one still called him the best man defender. Now that he didn't put up the best stats, nothing will change.

Lebron is the best man defender in the league. Yes, he gets burned by small forwards with a great first step. But thats about the only type of player he can't guard. That list is minimal as well when you look around the league. It includes Paul George, Rudy Gay, Carmelo (who he guards well) and maybe Durant.

Every time its just a coincidence his man happens to be off, and gets shut out. Tony Parker bad game? Hes hurt. Rose shut down? Team defense. Carmelo shoots 25% while Lebron is on him in a series? Bad stretch, nothing to do with Lebron.
Paul George has a good series against Lebron? Shit man to man defender, clearly was never very good.

You say something enough times, I guess people will start to believe it. I mean people on here cite single plays in a game as reasons to why Lebron is apparently a terrible defender. :oldlol:
Dude keeps getting praise from media, coaches and peers when it comes to defense. And hes always had reasonable to great stats, in advanced and basic metrics to back it up.
I think I'll go with the opinions of his peers, stats and observations from watching to conclude he is a great man to man defender.

[poido123]

Who cares about highlight clips?
I can show you clips of him locking people up on defense for certain plays. I can show you clips of Gary Payton, Scottie Pippen, Michael Cooper, Michael Jordan, etc all getting done on plays on defense.

You can also look at advanced and basic statistics on the synergy website showing Lebron was probably the best 1 on 1 defender in the league statistically about 2 or 3 years ago. No one still called him the best man defender. Now that he didn't put up the best stats, nothing will change.

Lebron is the best man defender in the league. Yes, he gets burned by small forwards with a great first step. But thats about the only type of player he can't guard. That list is minimal as well when you look around the league. It includes Paul George, Rudy Gay, Carmelo (who he guards well) and maybe Durant.

Every time its just a coincidence his man happens to be off, and gets shut out. Tony Parker bad game? Hes hurt. Rose shut down? Team defense. Carmelo shoots 25% while Lebron is on him in a series? Bad stretch, nothing to do with Lebron.
Paul George has a good series against Lebron? Shit man to man defender, clearly was never very good.

You say something enough times, I guess people will start to believe it. I mean people on here cite single plays in a game as reasons to why Lebron is apparently a terrible defender. :oldlol:
Dude keeps getting praise from media, coaches and peers when it comes to defense. And hes always had reasonable to great stats, in advanced and basic metrics to back it up.
I think I'll go with the opinions of his peers, stats and observations from watching to conclude he is a great man to man defender.


I am not trying to troll.

Agree to disagree, somewhere in between both of our opinions of Lebron's man defense is where he is at...

[Greg Oden 50]

:cheers:

If he improves that aspect of his game(although not that bad), no reason he couldn't win 3 DPOY's by the time he retires..

too bad.........he will never improve :roll:

[Greg Oden 50]

Best man defender and team defender in the league. He should get it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZpGKC62qvs :roll:

[SpurrDurr]

It's already decided: KD MVP and LBJ DPOY.

Both don't deserve their awards but they ll still win it nonetheless

[zoom17]

It's already decided: KD MVP and LBJ DPOY.

Both don't deserve their awards but they ll still win it nonetheless

we will see if KD could get the MVP this year I doubt though.

[Just2McFly]

Let me get this straight, people are agreeing with someone saying lebronis an average man to man defender? The hell? His defensive IQ alone makes him elite.

[Greg Oden 50]

lebron can't plays defence without flop :oldlol:

[TheCorporation]

LOL, LeBron's* defensive game has never been DPOY worthy. Dude is a scrub in that department.

You know how I know you're a young squirt, and new to basketball?

Oh and to top it off, an April 2013 account :lol

[AintNoSunshine]

Hell I can name 7 better defenders only using the center position..

Dwight
Noah
Hibbert
Duncan
Chandler
Gasol
Sanders

Put any of those on the Heat does not make them a better defensive team. You fail.

[Trollsmasher]

Funny how LeBron haters always claim that he is a bad man to man defender and they are trying to prove with it completly isolated, one-time clips.

On the other hand there are tapes of him destroying everyone from point guards to centers for excessive periods of time. Yes, he takes possessions off, mainly in RS, but when he is focused, he can dominate anyone from Derrick Rose to Al Jefferson.

By the way - does anybody have a video of that 4th quarter in Utah last season where he completly obliterated 30 pounds heavier Big Al on defense while almost leading a 20 point comeback by playing PG on offense with Wade and Bosh on the bench? That was in my opinion easily his best man-to-man defensive performance last year, but it escaped an attention of almost everyone and nobody even bothered to make a video:cry:

[russwest0]

Funny how LeBron haters always claim that he is a bad man to man defender and they are trying to prove with it completly isolated, one-time clips.

On the other hand there are tapes of him destroying everyone from point guards to centers for excessive periods of time. Yes, he takes possessions off, mainly in RS, but when he is focused, he can dominate anyone from Derrick Rose to Al Jefferson.

By the way - does anybody have a video of that 4th quarter in Utah last season where he completly obliterated 30 pounds heavier Big Al on defense while almost leading a 20 point comeback by playing PG on offense with Wade and Bosh on the bench? That was in my opinion easily his best man-to-man defensive performance last year, but it escaped an attention of almost everyone and nobody even bothered to make a video:cry:

Lol the only people who say that LeBron isn't a bad man to man defender are people who look at what he did with like 2 plays on Rose like 3 years ago.

> LeBron guards rose for 2 plays, Rose doesn't score

> Media be like "LEBRON SHUT DOWN ROSE"

[CanYouDigIt]

I can dig it
:lebronamazed:

[russwest0]

What happened to the good old days when being a great defender required 4 quarters of effort and not the coach/media all trying to hype up a player who statistically was shit at defense last year when compared to actual elite defenders.

Great defense was what Gary Payton did on Jordan in the finals way long ago even though the Bulls still won. Had Payton been on him from the start Sonics had a legit chance. You want to see what good defense is you watch that series.

I swear the LeBron generation is retarded as hell

[CanYouDigIt]

All of these active players have a higher defensive rating that Lebron through out their career.



Tim Duncan- Past Prime
Dwight Howard- Could win
Marcus Camby- Past Prime
Kevin Garnett- Past Prime
Manu Ginobili- Past Prime
Jermaine O'Neal- Past Prime
Shawn Marion- Past Prime
Rajon Rondo- Coming off season ending surgery.
Kenyon Martin- Past Prime
Tyson Chandler- Past Prime

Either D12 or Lebron DESERVE to win DPOY. How Marc Gasol won it over Lebron is beyond me.

[zoom17]

where was marco gasol Defense against the spurs:oldlol:

[Miserio]

He's an average man to man defender, but one of the best team defenders.

He doesn't need anything. This is a non-story. LeBron won't win DPOY unless he really deserves it.
Average man to man defender? He made D-Rose (2011) and T-Parker (2013) DISAPPEAR like if they were role players.

[Eric Cartman]

Average man to man defender? He made D-Rose (2011) and T-Parker (2013) DISAPPEAR like if they were role players.

Parker hamstring made him dissapear, not Lebron.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Parker hamstring made him dissapear, not Lebron.

Parker was just making an excuse.

[branslowski]

Average man to man defender? He made D-Rose (2011) and T-Parker (2013) DISAPPEAR like if they were role players.

You knoe Parker had a bad hammy right? You do also know when LeBron "shut down" Rose it was actually solid Miami team defense that shaded towards Rose denying him the drive right? I mean I'm all for you propping up ur fav player, but don't just lie like that as If ppl didn't watch these things transpire.

[#number6ix#]

This is what was said

“This year, it would be great to see him be acknowledged for the defensive work that he does,” Spoelstra said, planting the seed while at the same time saying that’s exactly what he wasn’t trying to do. “There’s no one else in the league that can do what he does. He’s been banging on that door, getting close. I don’t want it to be a campaign. It has to be earned. But he has that type of potential to be Defensive Player of the Year.”

In what world is this saying lebron is the most deserving... What would like the coach of the miami heat say Roy Hibbert should be in the running

[russwest0]

There is no one else in the league who can do what he does

:wtf:

Oh wait, Dam, he's right

http://sinbapointforward.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/lebron-flop.gif

DAT DEFENSE. DA GAWD. DPOY

[DaSeba5]

Average man to man defender? He made D-Rose (2011) and T-Parker (2013) DISAPPEAR like if they were role players.

As other people have already said, LeBron didn't shut down Rose by himself. The entire defense deserves credit. They are an elite unit for a reason. Same with Parker, although he had a bad hamstring. I'm not saying LeBron got destroyed by them, but his individual defense on them is overrated by people.

[plowking]

You knoe Parker had a bad hammy right? You do also know when LeBron "shut down" Rose it was actually solid Miami team defense that shaded towards Rose denying him the drive right? I mean I'm all for you propping up ur fav player, but don't just lie like that as If ppl didn't watch these things transpire.


Interesting the team gets all the credit. Why wasn't the team shutting him down when Lebron wasn't on him? He just happened to shoot 6% when Lebron switched on him.

:oldlol:

People reaching once again.

Parker a bad hammy? I remember people saying "what bad hammy" during the game before Lebron switched on him. But yeah, it went bad as soon as Lebron switched. :oldlol:

[plowking]

As other people have already said, LeBron didn't shut down Rose by himself. The entire defense deserves credit. They are an elite unit for a reason. Same with Parker, although he had a bad hamstring. I'm not saying LeBron got destroyed by them, but his individual defense on them is overrated by people.

You have a limited view of basketball, and rarely know what you're talking about.

[poido123]

Interesting the team gets all the credit. Why wasn't the team shutting him down when Lebron wasn't on him? He just happened to shoot 6% when Lebron switched on him.

:oldlol:

People reaching once again.

Parker a bad hammy? I remember people saying "what bad hammy" during the game before Lebron switched on him. But yeah, it went bad as soon as Lebron switched. :oldlol:

No one here is saying Lebron is a terrible defender, in fact most here would agree Lebron is an elite defender in many aspects other than man defense. No one here is suggesting that Lebron didn't "help" in containing Rose or Parker either.

The point you are missing here is, when Bron switched to Rose he used his teammates to trap Rose and cut off his driving lanes. It wasn't a simple case of Bron stopping Rose 1 on 1, that just isn't possible Rose is too quick. Miami use a collective defensive wall or sliding/trapping defense to force good penetrators like Rose and Parker away from their strengths and into uncomfortable spots or forcing them to jack up long range shots.

Go back and watch it if you don't believe me. Rose could not drive anywhere, the entire Heat defense was channeled in on stopping him drive. As far as Parker goes, for the sake of keeping objective, I'll say that he was fully healthy and the same thing happened to him that happened to Rose, COLLECTIVE DEFENSE.

What you are suggesting here Plowking is that Lebron should be credited with elite man on man defense when it's quite the opposite.

[branslowski]

Interesting the team gets all the credit. Why wasn't the team shutting him down when Lebron wasn't on him? He just happened to shoot 6% when Lebron switched on him.

:oldlol:

People reaching once again.

Parker a bad hammy? I remember people saying "what bad hammy" during the game before Lebron switched on him. But yeah, it went bad as soon as Lebron switched. :oldlol:

Wow you blind. Yet changing history from ur couch n laptop. Lebron cawk grabber...A shame what you've become.:facepalm

[plowking]

Wow you blind. Yet changing history from ur couch n laptop. Lebron cawk grabber...A shame what you've become.:facepalm

Whatever. Him and D Wade both suck at defense. I guess that's why as a fan of the team I feel most comfortable when those two are guarding the best players on the other team.

[Greg Oden 50]

lebron james only can plays defence oin 2 ways,flop & block on fast break :roll:

[plowking]

No one here is saying Lebron is a terrible defender, in fact most here would agree Lebron is an elite defender in many aspects other than man defense. No one here is suggesting that Lebron didn't "help" in containing Rose or Parker either.

The point you are missing here is, when Bron switched to Rose he used his teammates to trap Rose and cut off his driving lanes. It wasn't a simple case of Bron stopping Rose 1 on 1, that just isn't possible Rose is too quick. Miami use a collective defensive wall or sliding/trapping defense to force good penetrators like Rose and Parker away from their strengths and into uncomfortable spots or forcing them to jack up long range shots.

Go back and watch it if you don't believe me. Rose could not drive anywhere, the entire Heat defense was channeled in on stopping him drive. As far as Parker goes, for the sake of keeping objective, I'll say that he was fully healthy and the same thing happened to him that happened to Rose, COLLECTIVE DEFENSE.

What you are suggesting here Plowking is that Lebron should be credited with elite man on man defense when it's quite the opposite.

Its impossible to stop nearly any player one on one. That's why you have people hedging and rotating all game. :oldlol:

Okay, but for some reason, Parker and Rose started playing horrible as soon as Lebron switched on them. Rose just seemingly wasn't phased by this team defense prior to Lebron switching on him. Or let me guess, they only used it when Lebron was on Rose, just so we could have this discussion and I could cite it as evidence as great man to man defense?

Lebron is an elite man to man defender. His advanced and basic numbers prove that. Just last year he held all his 1 on 1 plays to 38% shooting. I'd say that's elite, considering what NBA teams average.

[SilkkTheShocker]

A lot of butthurt posters on here. Look on the bright side, guys. You still have until June to talk about LeBron not being a 3x time NBA champ/DPOY/5x MVP. :oldlol:

[poido123]

Its impossible to stop nearly any player one on one. That's why you have people hedging and rotating all game. :oldlol:

Okay, but for some reason, Parker and Rose started playing horrible as soon as Lebron switched on them. Rose just seemingly wasn't phased by this team defense prior to Lebron switching on him. Or let me guess, they only used it when Lebron was on Rose, just so we could have this discussion and I could cite it as evidence as great man to man defense?

Lebron is an elite man to man defender. His advanced and basic numbers prove that. Just last year he held all his 1 on 1 plays to 38% shooting. I'd say that's elite, considering what NBA teams average.

Do you understand that when Lebron went to rose or parker, he was effective in cohersing these two players to the help defense and cutting off driving lanes? Do you understand that this is different than actually staying in front of the man and stopping him 1 on 1? A big part of man to man defense is staying in front of the player your defending and contesting his shots. That is the part of Lebron that he is not good at. Great at chasing players down to block them, great at interfering passing lanes and getting steals and breakaway dunks, great at help defense and guarding multiple positions, but not man defense and you could also add that he has a tendancy to take plays off and lose his man off the ball.

There are already other knowledgeable posters here who have stated Lebron is not a good man defender other than myself.

Sorry Plowking, but it sounds to me you're pumping your man up for the DPOY and crediting him with things he is not good to elite at.

[nightprowler10]

poido dropping some knowledge in here. :applause:

[SilkkTheShocker]

You can't expect to beat a team like Miami when your best player is as mentally weak as Derrick Rose.

[poido123]

You can't expect to beat a team like Miami when your best player is as mentally weak as Derrick Rose.

Same tired old trolling lines I see. :pimp:

Your posts are getting predictable Silk, you might need a shakeup before you end up in the glue factory like 9empire.

[poido123]

poido dropping some knowledge in here. :applause:

:cheers:

Plowking is a decent poster.

Just don't agree with him on this one.

[plowking]

Do you understand that when Lebron went to rose or parker, he was effective in cohersing these two players to the help defense and cutting off driving lanes? Do you understand that this is different than actually staying in front of the man and stopping him 1 on 1? A big part of man to man defense is staying in front of the player your defending and contesting his shots. That is the part of Lebron that he is not good at. Great at chasing players down to block them, great at interfering passing lanes and getting steals and breakaway dunks, great at help defense and guarding multiple positions, but not man defense and you could also add that he has a tendancy to take plays off and lose his man off the ball.

There are already other knowledgeable posters here who have stated Lebron is not a good man defender other than myself.

Sorry Plowking, but it sounds to me you're pumping your man up for the DPOY and crediting him with things he is not good to elite at.

Actually, man on man defense is forcing the player into bad shots, and getting him to places on the court he doesn't want to be. Lebron did that against Rose. Find me one person who can stay in front of him consistently? No one. That is the answer. The fact that Lebron switching onto him forced him into 6% shooting... That means his man defense was the difference.
When you shoot 25+ shots on a player in the series, and only hit 6% of them while he is on you, that defender and his defense is the difference, not team defense. The team defense was always there, yet the players before couldn't get him to the spots he didn't want to be, and take the shots he didn't want to take.
What is hard to understand.

There are other posters who have stated Lebron is a bad man to man defender? Who cares? This place is a cesspool of Miami Heat hate. Any comparison to Lebron or the Current Heat and the "intelligent posters" here on the board always conclude Heat lose. :oldlol:

I'm not really too fussed what other posters on here think, because it won't be a fair argument ever involving Lebron or the Heat. I mean, people on here say they'd lose convincingly to the 8th seeded Ewing Knicks back in the day. Or the Reggie Miller Pacers would destroy them. :oldlol:

He takes plays off on defense? Wow... You don't say. There isn't a player in the world who doesn't. He doesn't take any more plays off than anyone else that ever played. Cooper, Payton, Pippen, Jordan, Hakeem, Wilt, etc included.

[poido123]

Actually, man on man defense is forcing the player into bad shots, and getting him to places on the court he doesn't want to be. Lebron did that against Rose. Find me one person who can stay in front of him consistently? No one. That is the answer. The fact that Lebron switching onto him forced him into 6% shooting... That means his man defense was the difference.
When you shoot 25+ shots on a player in the series, and only hit 6% of them while he is on you, that defender and his defense is the difference, not team defense. The team defense was always there, yet the players before couldn't get him to the spots he didn't want to be, and take the shots he didn't want to take.
What is hard to understand.

There are other posters who have stated Lebron is a bad man to man defender? Who cares? This place is a cesspool of Miami Heat hate. Any comparison to Lebron or the Current Heat and the "intelligent posters" here on the board always conclude Heat lose. :oldlol:

I'm not really too fussed what other posters on here think, because it won't be a fair argument ever involving Lebron or the Heat. I mean, people on here say they'd lose convincingly to the 8th seeded Ewing Knicks back in the day. Or the Reggie Miller Pacers would destroy them. :oldlol:

He takes plays off on defense? Wow... You don't say. There isn't a player in the world who doesn't. He doesn't take any more plays off than anyone else that ever played. Cooper, Payton, Pippen, Jordan, Hakeem, Wilt, etc included.

It is a little confusing and I see why you come to the conclusion to credit Lebron for good man on man defense. But the thing is, the whole team was stopping Rose, Lebron was just leading Rose into traps and closing off gaps together with other teammates to stop Rose. You then go on to say, well no one can stay in front of Rose? Well that is true, but I was refuting your claim that it was 100% Lebron who shutdown Rose. That is quite different than a guy who is smothering the player, staying in front of him and contesting his shots alone which is known as man on man defense.

I think you are trying to place credit to a player that didn't actually do what you say he was doing for the sake of boosting his DPOY credentials.

As for the Ewing teams and Pacers teams of the 90's? My word they could beat this current Heat team. Players of that era were tougher mentally and physically. Those two teams in particular were close to as good as those Bulls teams, but only a Michael Jordan stood in the way of them winning championships.

I make reference to Lebron taking plays off, because it is recognisable and worth mentioning. He does it more than those star players that you mentioned no doubt. Those guys rarely did, they were fierce on the court, Lebron isn't what I'd call a fierce competitor.

[plowking]

It is a little confusing and I see why you come to the conclusion to credit Lebron for good man on man defense. But the thing is, the whole team was stopping Rose, Lebron was just leading Rose into traps and closing off gaps together with other teammates to stop Rose. You then go on to say, well no one can stay in front of Rose? Well that is true, but I was refuting your claim that it was 100% Lebron who shutdown Rose. That is quite different than a guy who is smothering the player, staying in front of him and contesting his shots alone which is known as man on man defense.

I think you are trying to place credit to a player that didn't actually do what you say he was doing for the sake of boosting his DPOY credentials.

As for the Ewing teams and Pacers teams of the 90's? My word they could beat this current Heat team. Players of that era were tougher mentally and physically. Those two teams in particular were close to as good as those Bulls teams, but only a Michael Jordan stood in the way of them winning championships.

I make reference to Lebron taking plays off, because it is recognisable and worth mentioning. He does it more than those star players that you mentioned no doubt. Those guys rarely did, they were fierce on the court, Lebron isn't what I'd call a fierce competitor.

He did do it. He shut down Rose. The other players previously guarding him (Chalmers, Wade, Bibby, etc) couldn't do it. It isn't just two players on the court playing 1 on 1. Naturally you are going to run into other defenders on the court if played the right way. Lebron did that.
Its not like the Heat have any legitimate defensive or brute bigs to help like Boston, Lakers, Bulls, San Antonio or Memphis guards have the luxury of having.
Lebron was working his ass off to keep the ball high in the court. And he shut down Rose by doing it. Didn't let him get shots off that he wanted and forced him into bad ones.

LOL at players being mentally and physically tougher back in the day. Based on what? This is some more nostalgia bullshit that we have to deal with on this board on a daily basis.
There is nothing of the sort to suggest this.

EDIT: Its just funny that Rose happens to have his worst stretch of basketball the whole year when Lebron plays on him. But yeah, its team defense... Despite every other variable staying the same. lol...

[Legends66NBA7]

Defense is the most overrated part of LeMediaHype's game. What argument does he have over KG, Duncan, Dwight, Asik, Noah, etc in terms of limiting the other teams offense? I can name 20 defenders better than Bron, he's not even the best perimeter defender.

X, who do you think should have won DPOY last year ?

I had Duncan.

[poido123]

He did do it. He shut down Rose. The other players previously guarding him (Chalmers, Wade, Bibby, etc) couldn't do it. It isn't just two players on the court playing 1 on 1. Naturally you are going to run into other defenders on the court if played the right way. Lebron did that.
Its not like the Heat have any legitimate defensive or brute bigs to help like Boston, Lakers, Bulls, San Antonio or Memphis guards have the luxury of having.
Lebron was working his ass off to keep the ball high in the court. And he shut down Rose by doing it. Didn't let him get shots off that he wanted and forced him into bad ones.

LOL at players being mentally and physically tougher back in the day. Based on what? This is some more nostalgia bullshit that we have to deal with on this board on a daily basis.
There is nothing of the sort to suggest this.

EDIT: Its just funny that Rose happens to have his worst stretch of basketball the whole year when Lebron plays on him. But yeah, its team defense... Despite every other variable staying the same. lol...

The NBA during the 90's allowed more physical contact, more trash talk, harder fouls, so you had to be tough mentally to cope with these realities of 90's basketball.

Now I'm not suggesting that Lebron's cohersion to the help defense didn't help shutdown rose, it did. What I'm trying to establish is the difference between using your teammates to effectively trap or cut off a good penetrator and playing man defense that effectively stops your opponent with mostly your efforts alone.

Guys in the 90's where you had better and more physical centres, were able to camp in the paint and allow the guards to guard their man one on one and play man defense, that was the norm. Now, you have the 3 second rule that was introduced in 2001, big guys don't camp in the paint, players will often swarm or trap a good penetrator when they are honed in on, so there is a marked difference to the way defense is played today and back then. Guys in the 90's had to be better man defenders because their big man often stayed in the paint.

Lebron is playing the modern day defense and I could even go as far as to say, the Heat team as a whole is revolutionising the style of defending that hasn't been seen before. Effective swarming and trapping that takes precise timing and good team communication. I noticed that in the finals, you see the Heat play this amped up type swarming defense at their very best. This is a combination of athleticism and perhaps Spoelstra stragedy.

[ripthekik]

Lebron didn't stop rose don't give me that shiiit. He wasn't even on rose for more than 10% of the game :oldlol:

it's always the same for this guy. His teammates put in the majority of the work.. he comes in in the last second and gets all the credit. :oldlol:

lebron fans that don't see it are just sheep.

[plowking]

The NBA during the 90's allowed more physical contact, more trash talk, harder fouls, so you had to be tough mentally to cope with these realities of 90's basketball.

Now I'm not suggesting that Lebron's cohersion to the help defense didn't help shutdown rose, it did. What I'm trying to establish is the difference between using your teammates to effectively trap or cut off a good penetrator and playing man defense that effectively stops your opponent with mostly your efforts alone.

Guys in the 90's where you had better and more physical centres, were able to camp in the paint and allow the guards to guard their man one on one and play man defense, that was the norm. Now, you have the 3 second rule that was introduced in 2001, big guys don't camp in the paint, players will often swarm or trap a good penetrator when they are honed in on, so there is a marked difference to the way defense is played today and back then. Guys in the 90's had to be better man defenders because their big man often stayed in the paint.

Lebron is playing the modern day defense and I could even go as far as to say, the Heat team as a whole is revolutionising the style of defending that hasn't been seen before. Effective swarming and trapping that takes precise timing and good team communication. I noticed that in the finals, you see the Heat play this amped up type swarming defense at their very best. This is a combination of athleticism and perhaps Spoelstra stragedy.

Man defense was a hell of a lot easier to play in the 90's and having your big man waiting in the key allowed for a more aggressive style of defense in terms of man on man since if you get beat, you know you have help behind you.

I'm not sure exactly what it is you want. For everyone to clear out and not help at all for Lebron. That hasn't ever happened. There hasn't been a single player in history shut down by one guy.
Basketball is a team sport, and there are other guys on the court. You have to be able to get your shot off aware of these other guys.
Lebron was aware, Rose wasn't. Lebron was able to get Rose to take bad shots, no one else who guarded him was able to do that. Why is that the case? Why is it that all of a sudden the team defense worked when Lebron was on Rose?
How come no other player was able to get the team to help him? :oldlol:

Just answer those last two questions, and you'll understand how silly your argument of stopping a player by yourself is. The Heat don't even have a legit defensive big man to funnel the penetrator into, which makes Lebron's man to man defense even more astounding.

[plowking]

Lebron didn't stop rose don't give me that shiiit. He wasn't even on rose for more than 10% of the game :oldlol:

it's always the same for this guy. His teammates put in the majority of the work.. he comes in in the last second and gets all the credit. :oldlol:

lebron fans that don't see it are just sheep.

You, yourself have admitted Lebron is the best in the game, yet you write this. Its a direct contradiction of itself. :oldlol:

[poido123]

Man defense was a hell of a lot easier to play in the 90's and having your big man waiting in the key allowed for a more aggressive style of defense in terms of man on man since if you get beat, you know you have help behind you.

I'm not sure exactly what it is you want. For everyone to clear out and not help at all for Lebron. That hasn't ever happened. There hasn't been a single player in history shut down by one guy.
Basketball is a team sport, and there are other guys on the court. You have to be able to get your shot off aware of these other guys.
Lebron was aware, Rose wasn't. Lebron was able to get Rose to take bad shots, no one else who guarded him was able to do that. Why is that the case? Why is it that all of a sudden the team defense worked when Lebron was on Rose?
How come no other player was able to get the team to help him? :oldlol:

Just answer those last two questions, and you'll understand how silly your argument of stopping a player by yourself is. The Heat don't even have a legit defensive big man to funnel the penetrator into, which makes Lebron's man to man defense even more astounding.

It's like closing the gate.

If Lebron moves Rose over to another guard or forward, they essentially close the gate on him, perhaps even draw him closer to the basket and guard the space between him and the basket and Heat do that time and time again against alot of the quicker opponents who penetrate well.

I'll tell you why it worked on Rose when Lebron guarded him. Lebron is long enough, strong enough and just quick enough to coherse rose into the trap, that includes Lebron's long arms to coherse, shift, or even alter Rose's shot by the time Rose runs into the help defense and then you have two guys shutting the drive off and forcing a bad shot or risky pass. Now, if someone else guarded Rose like a Chalmers or Cole, then tries to do what Lebron is doing, wouldn't work as they are not long enough or strong enough to muscle or coherse Rose into a trap. Rose would of already blown by these smaller guys and penetrated the basket.

Now, you are also crediting Lebron's change onto Rose as if he completely shut him down when in actual fact, Lebron didn't guard Rose for most of the game, it was a situational change.

Now I think I have comprehensively answered your two questions. I hope that helps...

[plowking]

It's like closing the gate.

If Lebron moves Rose over to another guard or forward, they essentially close the gate on him, perhaps even draw him closer to the basket and guard the space between him and the basket and Heat do that time and time again against alot of the quicker opponents who penetrate well.

I'll tell you why it worked on Rose when Lebron guarded him. Lebron is long enough, strong enough and just quick enough to coherse rose into the trap, that includes Lebron's long arms to coherse, shift, or even alter Rose's shot by the time Rose runs into the help defense and then you have two guys shutting the drive off and forcing a bad shot or risky pass. Now, if someone else guarded Rose like a Chalmers or Cole, then tries to do what Lebron is doing, wouldn't work as they are not long enough or strong enough to muscle or coherse Rose into a trap. Rose would of already blown by these smaller guys and penetrated the basket.

Now, you are also crediting Lebron's change onto Rose as if he completely shut him down when in actual fact, Lebron didn't guard Rose for most of the game, it was a situational change.

Now I think I have comprehensively answered your two questions. I hope that helps...

So it was his man defense that changed the game. Like you said, he forced him into places on the court. Wouldn't you say that's man defense? He made him go where he wanted, not where Rose wanted. lol...

[poido123]

So it was his man defense that changed the game. Like you said, he forced him into places on the court. Wouldn't you say that's man defense? He made him go where he wanted, not where Rose wanted. lol...

This is a little hard to make black and white.

Man defense can turn into helpside defense or team defense very quickly. What I was trying to explain is, Lebron's sole objective was to lead Rose into weakside or help defense the moment Rose looked to penetrate and when/if Rose penetrated he was immediately trapped or cut off.

The difference between that defense and the more traditional man defense played in the 90's, is that the big men stayed in the paint and the guards/wings played solid man defense with little to no help until the offensive player got past the man defender.

Now, you have roaming centres and double team trapping, teammates closing driving lanes to counterract the athletic/quick players of the modern game. Plus of course the rule changes have forced the way in which defense and offense is played.

So my point is, Lebron was encouraging effective help/team defense when he engaged top penetrating guards like a Parker or Rose. He wasn't essentially guarding them with the intention of stopping the drive altogether or locking them down as such.

[russwest0]

NBA's website just published another article about LeBron and the DPOY.

The media is campaigning so damn hard to get LeBron to undeservedly win this award, it's ridiculous