Discussing the Bulls chances of beating the Heat in a 7 game series

[TonyMontana]

With Rose they had both the first seed in both 2011 and 2012. I don't see a reason for that to change. They didn't have Jimmy Butler in those years either, so adding him makes the team much better.

The Heats cast is only getting older and less effective. Other than LeBron there is no gamechanger on the roster and it will be an uphill battle for LeBron to bring Miami a championship with a Wade and Bosh that become even less effective.

If we look at the top 5 players on either team, 4 of them are Bulls. Heres the rankings.
-LeBron James
-Joakim Noah
-Jimmy Butler
-Taj Gibson
-Derrick Rose

This has some strong potential of being like the Cleveland/Boston series

Those 4 Bulls have higher value than any other player on the Heat. Then they also have guys like Luol Deng, Boozer, Hinrich. This team has a lot of depth and there is no way they'll be able to keep this team together. Guys will be gone when they find themselves unable to afford all of these players.

The only way Miami are the favorites is if Wade/Oden show zero problems regarding injuries. Especially Oden. He is the second most important player after LeBron on the team. If he can give them 20 minutes of quality 7 footer play that will be huge.

[branslowski]

Nice "just incase LeBron loses I have a made up excuse for him" thread.:applause:

Heat still stacked and da favorites.

[aj1987]

Noah, Butler and Gibson are better than Wade? Butler and Gibson are better than Bosh?:facepalm

Oden, the guy who played 80 NBA games in his career is the 2nd most valuable player? :oldlol:

[KG215]

No, dumbass, the two-time defending champs with a 4x MVP at his peak are and should be the favorites. Stop trying to come up bullshit reasons to try and prop-up LeBron's next ring (if there even is a next) before the season even plays out.

[TonyMontana]

Noah, Butler and Gibson are better than Wade? Butler and Gibson are better than Bosh?:facepalm

Do you seriously think the Bulls would trade Noah for Wade? Good god. :roll:

Wade was actually a negative on the court for the majority of the playoffs. Imagine if they had Noah to guard centers and rebound/protect the rim while sliding Bosh to his natural position and giving Ray Allen/Mike Miller the builk of the minutes at the two guard. The Heat would have beat the 2001 Lakers 15-1 playoff record.

Now imagine the Bulls if they lose Noah and have Wade with his 15 PPG and sub 50%TS. They get swept by the Nets.

If Wade, Noah, Butler, Gibson were all free agents right now and asking for the same contract, Wade would field by far the least interest. He'd be forced to take the MLE.

[TonyMontana]

No, dumbass, the two-time defending champs with a 4x MVP at his peak are and should be the favorites. Stop trying to come up bullshit reasons to make LeBron's potential 3rd ring before the season even plays out.

We all know LeBron is the best player. He has been for more than half a decade now.

But winning a title is a team accomplishment. The Bulls have a better team than the current Heat who get closer to Miami Cavaliers status every day. LeBron is better now than he was as a Cavalier so he's been able to overcome adversity despite the flaws of his teammates .

[aj1987]

Do you seriously think the Bulls would trade Noah for Wade? Good god. :roll:
You seem to be forgetting that Wade is still a 21/5/5/2/1 on 52% player, who plays excellent defense. He would average more if he's not sharing the ball with Lebron.


Wade was actually a negative on the court for the majority of the playoffs. Imagine if they had Noah to guard centers and rebound/protect the rim while sliding Bosh to his natural position and giving Ray Allen/Mike Miller the builk of the minutes at the two guard. The Heat would have beat the 2001 Lakers 15-1 playoff record.
Yeah, you're right. Lets give Allen and Miller starter minutes. One guy who's 36 and the other with a broken back. Is Lebron going to play 48 minutes a game? There's no one on the who who can create their own shots consistently and create for others consistently other than Wade and Lebron. With Lebron on the bench, and Wade not on the team, the Heat are going to get destroyed. Also, the Heat would've lost to the Spurs in 5 if it wasn't for Wade.



Now imagine the Bulls if they lose Noah and have Wade with his 15 PPG and sub 50%TS. They get swept by the Nets.
Joakim Noah with this 11/10 on 45% took them to the second round, right?


If Wade, Noah, Butler, Gibson were all free agents right now and asking for the same contract, Wade would field by far the least interest. He'd be forced to take the MLE.
:facepalm And this is why you are the resident ****tard. Wade is a top 10 player. Lebron would still be ringless without Wade.

[NumberSix]

Bulls aren't a factor. At all.

[LikeABosh]

With Rose they had both the first seed in both 2011 and 2012. I don't see a reason for that to change. They didn't have Jimmy Butler in those years either, so adding him makes the team much better.

The Heats cast is only getting older and less effective. Other than LeBron there is no gamechanger on the roster and it will be an uphill battle for LeBron to bring Miami a championship with a Wade and Bosh that become even less effective.

If we look at the top 5 players on either team, 4 of them are Bulls. Heres the rankings.
-LeBron James
-Joakim Noah
-Jimmy Butler
-Taj Gibson
-Derrick Rose

This has some strong potential of being like the Cleveland/Boston series

Those 4 Bulls have higher value than any other player on the Heat. Then they also have guys like Luol Deng, Boozer, Hinrich. This team has a lot of depth and there is no way they'll be able to keep this team together. Guys will be gone when they find themselves unable to afford all of these players.

The only way Miami are the favorites is if Wade/Oden show zero problems regarding injuries. Especially Oden. He is the second most important player after LeBron on the team. If he can give them 20 minutes of quality 7 footer play that will be huge.
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: You need to be banned for this statement you fu.cking ret.ard. Are you godamn serious???

[Le Shaqtus]

Thread title is appropriate.

[DuMa]

Bulls always impress in the regular season but Thibs plays all his guys too much to the point where theyre falling into peices by the post season. Noah has a chronic foot injury that might never heal. Hinrich withered into the injury reserve by that point. Even Luol Deng literally was hospitalized at the point the Bulls were ready to play the Heat.

Thibs has a great philosphy for winning basketball. Its just not meant to last the entire season+postseason

[LikeABosh]

You're talking about Wade being injured yet Rose is the one coming off a torn ACL. Wade averaged 22 ppg, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, 1 block and shot a career high fg%. He was dealing with a bone bruise throughout the playoffs. No structural damage. There is no reason to believe he won't have a very good playoff run like in 2012. I guess I can get over you saying Joakim Noah is better than Wade because you are a complete Lebron nut hugging ****tard. But Jimmy Butler and Taj ****ing Gibson??? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[NumberSix]

Rose wouldn't have any more of an impact than Nate Robinson did. Rose-tards will scoff at that, but keep it real. You know its true.

[nathanjizzle]

Rose wouldn't have any more of an impact than Nate Robinson did. Rose-tards will scoff at that, but keep it real. You know its true.

youre the same person that says rose=brandon jennings.

[KG215]

get closer to Miami Cavaliers status every day.


If we look at the top 5 players on either team, 4 of them are Bulls. Heres the rankings.
-LeBron James
-Joakim Noah
-Jimmy Butler
-Taj Gibson
-Derrick Rose


If Wade, Noah, Butler, Gibson were all free agents right now and asking for the same contract, Wade would field by far the least interest. He'd be forced to take the MLE.

If you're trying to figure out why everyone thinks you're a f***ing retarded attention seeking whore, there's a few reasons right there.

And if you're not trolling, and genuinely believe any of those three quotes, then just do everyone a favor and leave.

[TonyMontana]

You seem to be forgetting that Wade is still a 21/5/5/2/1 on 52% player, who plays excellent defense. He would average more if he's not sharing the ball with Lebron.

You didn't answer the question. Do you think the Bulls would trade Noah for Wade if the Heat offered them that.

And Wade put up those numbers in the regular season where the Heat got out on the break at will. Wade is great when you can pound on bad teams, but once the game goes to the halfcourt he is pretty much useless.

You can set him up for an open look and what does he do? Pump fake, pump fake, pump fake. Every time, noone is buying that. He has no shot and with his injuries in the playoffs he couldn't get to the line either.



Yeah, you're right. Lets give Allen and Miller starter minutes. One guy who's 36 and the other with a broken back. Is Lebron going to play 48 minutes a game? There's no one on the who who can create their own shots consistently and create for others consistently other than Wade and Lebron. With Lebron on the bench, and Wade not on the team, the Heat are going to get destroyed. Also, the Heat would've lost to the Spurs in 5 if it wasn't for Wade.

LeBron is all you need. He is the best player in the league and arguably of all-time. I want him creating as much as possible to maximize his talents.

Allen/Miller/Battier will finish those open looks created by LeBron. Wade cant do anything and the offense resets since he doesn't have a shot. In fact he hurts LeBrons game, because it lets the opposing team pack the paint even harder. Wade isn't a threat to do anything unless he has an open layup.



Joakim Noah with this 11/10 on 45% took them to the second round, right?

Yep, laugh at his stats all you want, but Joakim Noah is the most impactful player in the entire Eastern Conference after LeBron James. Elite man defender, elite rim protector, elite rebounder, great athlete, good passer, can finish Guy really makes his mark on a game and does all the little things.



:facepalm And this is why you are the resident ****tard. Wade is a top 10 player. Lebron would still be ringless without Wade.

Wade was barely top 10 on the Heat, let alone in the entire league.



Bulls always impress in the regular season but Thibs plays all his guys too much to the point where theyre falling into peices by the post season. Noah has a chronic foot injury that might never heal. Hinrich withered into the injury reserve by that point. Even Luol Deng literally was hospitalized at the point the Bulls were ready to play the Heat.

Thibs has a great philosphy for winning basketball. Its just not meant to last the entire season+postseason

This is a good point, I didn't have that in mind.


You're talking about Wade being injured yet Rose is the one coming off a torn ACL. Wade averaged 22 ppg, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, 1 block and shot a career high fg%. He was dealing with a bone bruise throughout the playoffs. No structural damage. There is no reason to believe he won't have a very good playoff run like in 2012. I guess I can get over you saying Joakim Noah is better than Wade because you are a complete Lebron nut hugging ****tard. But Jimmy Butler and Taj ****ing Gibson???

Wade is an old 31, and Rose is 25. If their ages were reversed I would take Wade over him.

Joakim Noah is better than every single player in the Eastern conference other than LeBron. Very good basketball player.



Rose wouldn't have any more of an impact than Nate Robinson did. Rose-tards will scoff at that, but keep it real. You know its true.

Rose is definitely overrated(he isn't close to being the most valuable Bull on the team), but he does make a big impact. Bulls had the #1 seed both years he was healthy.

[aj1987]

You didn't answer the question. Do you think the Bulls would trade Noah for Wade if the Heat offered them that.
Yes, they would.


And Wade put up those numbers in the regular season where the Heat got out on the break at will. Wade is great when you can pound on bad teams, but once the game goes to the halfcourt he is pretty much useless.
It's not like Wade averaged 20/4/5/2/1 on 47% in the Finals, right?


You can set him up for an open look and what does he do? Pump fake, pump fake, pump fake. Every time, noone is buying that. He has no shot and with his injuries in the playoffs he couldn't get to the line either.
And he still averaged 16/5/5/2/1 on 46%, while playing on one leg.


LeBron is all you need. He is the best player in the league and arguably of all-time. I want him creating as much as possible to maximize his talents.
He's barely top 10, let alone GOAT. Also, if Lebron is all you need, why didn't he win in Cleveland? Or in '11, when Wade and Bosh were playing really well.


Allen/Miller/Battier will finish those open looks created by LeBron. Wade cant do anything and the offense resets since he doesn't have a shot. In fact he hurts LeBrons game, because it lets the opposing team pack the paint even harder. Wade isn't a threat to do anything unless he has an open layup.
I think you must've missed games 4 & 7 of the Finals.
Is that why Allen/Miller/Battier averaged a 52% FG%?
That's why he won a ring, when Lebron was barely making the playoffs. :facepalm Wade is arguably an equally good playmaker. He still averages 6.1 APG for his career.


Yep, laugh at his stats all you want, but Joakim Noah is the most impactful player in the entire Eastern Conference after LeBron James. Elite man defender, elite rim protector, elite rebounder, great athlete, good passer, can finish Guy really makes his mark on a game and does all the little things.
Rose, George, Wade, Rondo, Deron and a bunch of other players are much much better than Noah and it's not even close.


Wade was barely top 10 on the Heat, let alone in the entire league.
Lebron needs a 20/5/5 guy as the 10th best player on his team to win a ring? DAMN! Wade did it with his #2 averaging 13/10.

[Trollsmasher]

I see what you are doing OP. Good job:applause:

aj1987 should also stop using FG%, when Wade's TS% was abyssmal in both 2012 and 2013 Finals

[TonyMontana]

I see what you are doing OP. Good job:applause:

aj1987 should also stop using FG%, when Wade's TS% was abysmal in both 2012 and 2013 Finals

Yeah I'm not even going to spend the 2 minutes required to reply to him again because he thinks the Bulls would trade Joakim Noah for Current Wade.

Wade NEVER got to the free throw line. When you can't shoot the three, and you can't get to the free throw line you are an offensive liability in the halfcourt setting. That's why his TS% is so bad.

[poido123]

Yeah I'm not even going to spend the 2 minutes required to reply to him again because he thinks the Bulls would trade Joakim Noah for Current Wade.

Wade NEVER got to the free throw line. When you can't shoot the three, and you can't get to the free throw line you are an offensive liability in the halfcourt setting. That's why his TS% is so bad.

He looked pretty 'terrible' to me playing in that Game 7 last year. :lol

[aj1987]

Yeah I'm not even going to spend the 2 minutes required to reply to him again because he thinks the Bulls would trade Joakim Noah for Current Wade.

Wade NEVER got to the free throw line. When you can't shoot the three, and you can't get to the free throw line you are an offensive liability in the halfcourt setting. That's why his TS% is so bad.
:roll: :roll: You're just mad that your boy needs his 10th best player to average 20/5/5 to barely win the Finals.



aj1987 should also stop using FG%, when Wade's TS% was abysmal in both 2012 and 2013 Finals
I've seen you use it to discredit Kobe, when his TS% was really good, with a shitty FG%.

2013 Finals: Lebron - 53% and Wade 51% (TS)
2012 Finals: Lebron - 56% and Wade 52% (TS)

Pretty far from "abysmal".

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Give them a 25% chance.

[Dresta]

If we look at the top 5 players on either team, 4 of them are Bulls. Heres the rankings.
-LeBron James
-Joakim Noah
-Jimmy Butler
-Taj Gibson
-Derrick Rose'

Friggin idiot.

[poido123]

Give them a 25% chance.

I can't exactly put a figure to how likely they are to win, but I think this year will be the Bulls best chance to dethrone them.

Butler's defense on Lebron could be the difference.

[Twiens]

Why do you guys respond to this kid? He's just ****in with all of you..

[poido123]

Why do you guys respond to this kid? He's just ****in with all of you..

:lol

I've always been a troll feeder myself :confusedshrug:

[Dengness9]

Heat never won with Rose healthy.


End of story.

[red1]

Heat never won with Rose healthy.


End of story.
What? :oldlol:

[plowking]

Rose wouldn't have any more of an impact than Nate Robinson did. Rose-tards will scoff at that, but keep it real. You know its true.

Not that they are anywhere near each other in terms of level of play, but I agree with this. We really couldn't stop him.

[plowking]

Butler's defense on Lebron could be the difference.

You mean the Bull's team defense don't you?

[Dengness9]

Step out your crib and put an ear to the street.



Heat haven't won't a chamionship with Rose healthy.


The proof is in the puddin'.

[G-train]

The Bulls don't have the talent to beat Miami currently, when both teams are healthy.
They especially won't have the talent when they trade Deng soon for a SG and get 75c to the dollar.

[G-train]

Step out your crib and put an ear to the street.



Heat haven't won't a chamionship with Rose healthy.


The proof is in the puddin'.

The Heat haven't been healthy in the playoffs either.
Still holding two trophies aloft. :confusedshrug:

[Legends66NBA7]

What? :oldlol:

New trend, I guess.


Not that they are anywhere near each other in terms of level of play, but I agree with this. We really couldn't stop him.

What ? Game's 2, 3, and especially 4 would suggest otherwise.

[plowking]

Step out your crib and put an ear to the street.



Heat haven't won't a chamionship with Rose healthy.


The proof is in the puddin'.

2011 has nothing to do with Rose. :oldlol:

Dude got backdoor swept and made to look silly by Lebron.

[plowking]

New trend, I guess.



What ? Game's 2, 3, and especially 4 would suggest otherwise.

Meh, he had one really bad game IMO. The others he was still breaking down the defense and making plays.

[Legends66NBA7]

Meh, he had one really bad game IMO. The others he was still breaking down the defense and making plays.

True, but I do think he's still containable and the Heat do a great job on their perimeter defense.

Rose wouldn't have made much of impact either but that has more do with him sitting out a large portion of time and he can't just return to his MVP form if he was inserted in the lineup.

Either way, if the Heat and Bulls do matchup in the playoffs again, we'll see what type of player Rose is going forward. I think he can still blow by at will, but has he added more of a post game and a mid-range/3 point jump shot to keep great perimeter defenses more honest ? If so, then he definitely makes much of difference, although I still see Miami winning this hypothetical match up.

[poido123]

The Bulls don't have the talent to beat Miami currently, when both teams are healthy.
They especially won't have the talent when they trade Deng soon for a SG and get 75c to the dollar.

You can never predict what will happen in the future man. Bulls are good enough to beat the Heat if they get things right and play with more energy.

Miami going into their 4th consecutive playoff run, may lack the energy needed to overcome the Bulls. It might come down to one or two games where Bulls just want it that little bit more, and the Heat start to feel the strain of a long finals campaign.

I'm not going to say we will beat the Heat, but I think this year is our best chance.

[poido123]

New trend, I guess.



What ? Game's 2, 3, and especially 4 would suggest otherwise.


The overrating of Nate in that series is quite funny :lol

He was good for one or two games in that series and the rest he was making little to no impact...

It's also funny that Heat fans still bring up last year's matchup like it was a fair contest :lol

No Rose, Deng and Hinrich = no chance and not worth talking about.

[poido123]

2011 has nothing to do with Rose. :oldlol:

Dude got backdoor swept and made to look silly by Lebron.

:rolleyes:

It surprises me that you hold this opinion and you're one of the better more knowledgeable posters among Heat fans...

Like I said in the other thread, excellent team and weakside help defense stopped Rose, not Lebron's man defense.

[poido123]

You mean the Bull's team defense don't you?

Now if you want a good example of elite man defense, just watch my man Butler.. :rockon:

[plowking]

Now if you want a good example of elite man defense, just watch my man Butler.. :rockon:

He literally did the exact same thing Lebron did to Rose. Instead of having no elite defensive bigs, Butler does have some to funnel Lebron into. :oldlol:

[Frozen1]

LOL this moron already doing damage control in case lebron lose. This guy only can win in this situation:

-Lebron lose in the playoffs: "Oh shit, he didn

[poido123]

He literally did the exact same thing Lebron did to Rose. Instead of having no elite defensive bigs, Butler does have some to funnel Lebron into. :oldlol:

If you have some tape, go back and watch the 2012 Bulls v Heat matchup and tell me how much help defense Butler needed when defending Lebron and how many times Lebron passed the ball off because of his defensive pressure.

Then go have a look at the 2011 matchup and tell me that Lebron defended Rose near as good or defended his man in the same manner. Tell me if you notice any differences in defensive style and intensity.

The big difference is Lebron used funneling tactics to trap and cutoff driving lanes with the help of his teammates. Butler had the ability to stay in front of Lebron most of the time and force him to pass the ball off. In fact, Lebron looked so rattled out there, he was very quiet for much of that series.

[Dagouch]

I think the Bulls need a bonfide 2nd scorer to beat the Heat.

I'd be really curious to see If they could Lamarcus Aldridge on that Team without giving up too much.

[tmacattack33]

With Rose they had both the first seed in both 2011 and 2012. I don't see a reason for that to change. They didn't have Jimmy Butler in those years either, so adding him makes the team much better.

The Heats cast is only getting older and less effective. Other than LeBron there is no gamechanger on the roster and it will be an uphill battle for LeBron to bring Miami a championship with a Wade and Bosh that become even less effective.

If we look at the top 5 players on either team, 4 of them are Bulls. Heres the rankings.
-LeBron James
-Joakim Noah
-Jimmy Butler
-Taj Gibson
-Derrick Rose

This has some strong potential of being like the Cleveland/Boston series

Those 4 Bulls have higher value than any other player on the Heat. Then they also have guys like Luol Deng, Boozer, Hinrich. This team has a lot of depth and there is no way they'll be able to keep this team together. Guys will be gone when they find themselves unable to afford all of these players.

The only way Miami are the favorites is if Wade/Oden show zero problems regarding injuries. Especially Oden. He is the second most important player after LeBron on the team. If he can give them 20 minutes of quality 7 footer play that will be huge.

Taj Gibson > Wade.

:oldlol:

[Trollsmasher]

Damn, that Butler defense overrating is pretty laughable:lol The only reason LeBron's numbers against the Bulls were bad was his shot being off. He got past Butler anytime he wanted to because of the guy's completly pointless overplaying and if anyone stopped him, it was the help defense.

[ripthekik]

He is right though. Lebron never won a ring when Rose was healthy + is playing.

[poido123]

Damn, that Butler defense overrating is pretty laughable:lol The only reason LeBron's numbers against the Bulls were bad was his shot being off. He got past Butler anytime he wanted to because of the guy's completly pointless overplaying and if anyone stopped him, it was the help defense.

:facepalm

At least try to be somewhat objective.

I see you didn't watch the games :lol

[plowking]

If you have some tape, go back and watch the 2012 Bulls v Heat matchup and tell me how much help defense Butler needed when defending Lebron and how many times Lebron passed the ball off because of his defensive pressure.

Then go have a look at the 2011 matchup and tell me that Lebron defended Rose near as good or defended his man in the same manner. Tell me if you notice any differences in defensive style and intensity.

The big difference is Lebron used funneling tactics to trap and cutoff driving lanes with the help of his teammates. Butler had the ability to stay in front of Lebron most of the time and force him to pass the ball off. In fact, Lebron looked so rattled out there, he was very quiet for much of that series.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHwMkn6tvnE

Look at every time Lebron drives. :oldlol:
A trap. Funneled into big men. Crowded, surrounded, etc. All he did was funnel and trap every time Lebron went inside.

[plowking]

And Butler's defense got so overrated. Lebron did a far better job stopping Rose than Butler stopping Lebron.

The one player that played Lebron well, straight up 1 on 1 the whole time was Danny Green.

[juju151111]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHwMkn6tvnE

Look at every time Lebron drives. :oldlol:
A trap. Funneled into big men. Crowded, surrounded, etc. All he did was funnel and trap every time Lebron went inside.
Most of those were one on ones. Rd are u talking about. Just look at the first 3 plays of the video. He seats his shit, contest post up attempt, and a contested 3 point shot.

[plowking]

Most of those were one on ones. Rd are u talking about. Just look at the first 3 plays of the video. He seats his shit, contest post up attempt, and a contested 3 point shot.

I'm talking about when he drives.
The first two times Lebron is inside, Butler forces him into doubles. lol.

This according to poido is team defense, not 1 on 1. I'm just going by his definition. :oldlol:

The only 2 good examples of 1 on 1 man defense according to poido are 2:02 and 4:55 in the whole video. Because apparently forcing a player into bad spots and shots on the court isn't considered man defense.

[Trollsmasher]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHwMkn6tvnE

Look at every time Lebron drives. :oldlol:
A trap. Funneled into big men. Crowded, surrounded, etc. All he did was funnel and trap every time Lebron went inside.
Exactly what I was saying. And even with that help defense, the only reason LeBron's numbers were worse than normal was him missing shots he normally makes.

[juju151111]

I'm talking about when he drives.
The first two times Lebron is inside, Butler forces him into doubles. lol.

This according to poido is team defense, not 1 on 1. I'm just going by his definition. :oldlol:

The only 2 good examples of 1 on 1 man defense according to poido are 2:02 and 4:55 in the whole video. Because apparently forcing a player into bad spots and shots on the court isn't considered man defense.
When he drives it's mostly one on one. Obviously the big will rotate. That's every defense. Most of it was one on one defense. What doubles? I saw one double and that was with Teague on that post up and Teague didn't even jump so he had no effect.

[juju151111]

Exactly what I was saying. And even with that help defense, the only reason LeBron's numbers were worse than normal was him missing shots he normally makes.
He didn't make it because of how hard Butler was playing him. Denying him the ball, not getting normal postioning and contesting his shot. That's how you get players out of rhythm. Which is why he was a good defender.

[poido123]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHwMkn6tvnE

Look at every time Lebron drives. :oldlol:
A trap. Funneled into big men. Crowded, surrounded, etc. All he did was funnel and trap every time Lebron went inside.

:biggums:

I saw Lebron drive by Butler on a few occasions when Lebron got the quick first step on him and Butler lost his step or got up on him to close or overplayed him. But what that video did show, was how often Butler was able to keep in front of Lebron and contest his shots more often than Lebron getting past him.

I saw no strategy of funneling in any of those defensive sequences, I saw Lebron drive to the hole and then the help defense came in once he got close to the basket? That happens in all NBA games :oldlol:

I saw lots of high screens set for Lebron, but Butler was good enough to get around most of them.

What you think is funnelling is not what I am talking about. That is the old traditional defense where a big man is drawn into the play once an offensive player has penetrated the perimeter. Just about every defensive play in the NBA does that when a guard gets by his man.

Im talking about when there is a high screen trap or a Heat teammate coming accross 8 feet from the basket and closing the gate on Rose's drives. That is quite different to a bigman coming to help on the last line of defense.

[plowking]

When he drives it's mostly one on one. Obviously the big will rotate. That's every defense. Most of it was one on one defense. What doubles? I saw one double and that was with Teague on that post up and Teague didn't even jump so he had no effect.

We'll go through them...

2. Beli rotates over on the drive... Noah is hedging the whole time on the post up, and Brewer helps.
1:10 - Noah hedging and helping the whole time, where Butler is forcing him. Not man on man (all according to poido, not my definition).
1:29 - Noah comes across where Butler is forcing him. Even Boozer hedges over. (again not man on man according to the definition I was given in the other thread).
1:38 - Lebron gets to the ring easy and misses an easy layup. Noah again comes over but was late, hence Lebron being able to get the ring easy. No one to help Butler.
2:00 - First play of good man defense according to poido.


Etc, etc...

Butler got way too much credit for overplaying on James, because he could afford to having the best defensive bigs in the league waiting for James in the key.

[plowking]

:biggums:

I saw Lebron drive by Butler on a few occasions when Lebron got the quick first step on him and Butler lost his step or got up on him to close or overplayed him. But what that video did show, was how often Butler was able to keep in front of Lebron and contest his shots more often than Lebron getting past him.

I saw no strategy of funneling in any of those defensive sequences, I saw Lebron drive to the hole and then the help defense came in once he got close to the basket? That happens in all NBA games :oldlol:

I saw lots of high screens set for Lebron, but Butler was good enough to get around most of them.

What you think is funnelling is not what I am talking about. That is the old traditional defense where a big man is drawn into the play once an offensive player has penetrated the perimeter. Just about every defensive play in the NBA does that when a guard gets by his man.

I mean where there is a high screen trap or a Heat teammate coming accross 8 feet from the basket and closing the gate on Rose's drives.

:oldlol:

Its actually hilarious you can claim that.

Taj Gibson in most of the plays completely ignores his player and watches Lebron the whole time. At all times there is a 2 man hedge on the side Lebron is on. :oldlol:

Its funny you think this is a better example of great defense compared to Lebron on Rose. Lebron didn't have big guys hedging over for him like Butler did. He worked his ass off to keep Rose on the perimeter.

[poido123]

I'm talking about when he drives.
The first two times Lebron is inside, Butler forces him into doubles. lol.

This according to poido is team defense, not 1 on 1. I'm just going by his definition. :oldlol:

The only 2 good examples of 1 on 1 man defense according to poido are 2:02 and 4:55 in the whole video. Because apparently forcing a player into bad spots and shots on the court isn't considered man defense.

LOL at there only being 2 good instances of good man to man defense in this video. :oldlol:

You watch games with a totally different view of everyone else Plowking.

Butler manned Lebron up and contested at least 75% of all those defensive sequences and that's being generous. Excellent example of how to defend a tough opponent like Lebron.

I'd love for you to post a link of Lebron playing defense on Rose in 2011. Then we can compare the two :pimp:

[plowking]

LOL at there only being 2 good instances of good man to man defense in this video. :oldlol:

You watch games with a totally different view of everyone else Plowking.

Butler manned Lebron up and contested at least 75% of all those defensive sequences and that's being generous. Excellent example of how to defend a tough opponent like Lebron.

I'd love for you to post a link of Lebron playing defense on Rose in 2011. Then we can compare the two :pimp:

I don't, I'm using your definition you gave me in the other thread. And going by that, this isn't great man defense.
My own opinion, based on my own definition was that it was as good a job as most people do on Lebron.

I can't find a video, but it'd be the exact same thing, except without great defensive bigs. Then I'd be told how its somehow different by you, and Lebron is using help defense. :oldlol:

[poido123]

:oldlol:

Its actually hilarious you can claim that.

Taj Gibson in most of the plays completely ignores his player and watches Lebron the whole time. At all times there is a 2 man hedge on the side Lebron is on. :oldlol:

Its funny you think this is a better example of great defense compared to Lebron on Rose. Lebron didn't have big guys hedging over for him like Butler did. He worked his ass off to keep Rose on the perimeter.


I want to see video evidence and prove it. I'd really like to see what you come up with and how you explain Lebron defending Rose better :oldlol:

[poido123]

I don't, I'm using your definition you gave me in the other thread. And going by that, this isn't great man defense.
My own opinion, based on my own definition was that it was as good a job as most people do on Lebron.

I can't find a video, but it'd be the exact same thing, except without great defensive bigs. Then I'd be told how its somehow different by you, and Lebron is using help defense. :oldlol:


Well it would be, the style of the defense and the tactics would be different and I'm sure of it. :confusedshrug:

Anyways, look like we are heading for a stalemate, you see it one way, I see it another. Happens alot on message boards :lol

[TheReturn]

Shaking my heads at the posters who are trying to discredit Jimmy Butlers defense on LBJ by saying the Bulls' bigs are also focusing on him.. What the hell do you expect lmao, this is the best player in the world we're talking about, of course they use their entire team to defend him. :lol That doesn't take anything away from the amazing job Butler did on James in the playoffs.

[poido123]

Shaking my heads at the posters who are trying to discredit Jimmy Butlers defense on LBJ by saying the Bulls' bigs are also focusing on him.. What the hell do you expect lmao, this is the best player in the world we're talking about, of course they use their entire team to defend him. :lol That doesn't take anything away from the amazing job Butler did on James in the playoffs.


I rarely saw the bigs actually trap or double team Lebron? Sure they were aware of Lebron at all times, but they fully trusted Butler to do the job on him, which the video showed how often Butler was left to defend Lebron on his own... :confusedshrug:

[Go Getter]

We have a puncher's chance....I really think we are one scorer away.

[plowking]

Shaking my heads at the posters who are trying to discredit Jimmy Butlers defense on LBJ by saying the Bulls' bigs are also focusing on him.. What the hell do you expect lmao, this is the best player in the world we're talking about, of course they use their entire team to defend him. :lol That doesn't take anything away from the amazing job Butler did on James in the playoffs.

But when Lebron does it to Rose, its not considered great man defense on here.

Just trying to get consistency, and some posters refuse to give it. Reason why? They know they can harp on about Lebron's man defense never being good enough because it can't be statistically measured in a sure fire, 100% proof type of way.

Saying that, they love to throw out excuses as to why Lebron keeps shutting down player after player thats put in front of him.
Rose? Team defense.
Parker? He became injured as soon as Lebron was put on him. Ignore him tearing up the Heat prior to that in the game.
Melo? Bad shooting streak, coincidence.

:oldlol:

[TheReturn]

I rarely saw the bigs actually trap or double team Lebron? Sure they were aware of Lebron at all times, but they fully trusted Butler to do the job on him, which the video showed how often Butler was left to defend Lebron on his own... :confusedshrug:
Nah I agree, they let Jimmy play him 1 on 1 99% of the time, but I mean when he drove it they'd help and contest, which seems pretty logical. That's my point. :cheers:

[TheReturn]

But when Lebron does it to Rose, its not considered great man defense on here.

Just trying to get consistency, and some posters refuse to give it. Reason why? They know they can harp on about Lebron's man defense never being good enough because it can't be statistically measured in a sure fire, 100% proof type of way.

Saying that, they love to throw out excuses as to why Lebron keeps shutting down player after player thats put in front of him.
Rose? Team defense.
Parker? He became injured as soon as Lebron was put on him. Ignore him tearing up the Heat prior to that in the game.
Melo? Bad shooting streak, coincidence.

:oldlol:
I'm not the one you're arguing here, but to me - being a big Bulls fan - Lebron's ability to guard players like Rose and Parker in the clutch is nothing short of amazing.

[poido123]

But when Lebron does it to Rose, its not considered great man defense on here.

Just trying to get consistency, and some posters refuse to give it. Reason why? They know they can harp on about Lebron's man defense never being good enough because it can't be statistically measured in a sure fire, 100% proof type of way.

Saying that, they love to throw out excuses as to why Lebron keeps shutting down player after player thats put in front of him.
Rose? Team defense.
Parker? He became injured as soon as Lebron was put on him. Ignore him tearing up the Heat prior to that in the game.
Melo? Bad shooting streak, coincidence.

:oldlol:


People with no bias on this matter have said Lebron is not a good man defender.

You crack me up because you see shit that nobody else is seeing :lol :oldlol:

Anyone here can go back a few pages and read the part where I provided "consistency" in my opinion. Or at least draw an objective POV on Lebron's defense, instead of just hating him.

[NumberSix]

People with no bias on this matter have said Lebron is not a good man defender.

You crack me up because you see shit that nobody else is seeing :lol :oldlol:

Anyone here can go back a few pages and read the part where I provided "consistency" in my opinion. Or at least draw an objective POV on Lebron's defense, instead of just hating him.
Who are these people with no bias? Nick Young? Bladers? Kennethgriffin? You?

:roll:

[plowking]

People with no bias on this matter have said Lebron is not a good man defender.

You crack me up because you see shit that nobody else is seeing :lol :oldlol:

Anyone here can go back a few pages and read the part where I provided "consistency" in my opinion. Or at least draw an objective POV on Lebron's defense, instead of just hating him.

People with no bias. You're on insidehoops...

Lebron is a great man to man defender, and probably the best in the league.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-TtcGaUXQY

Here is a video of game 5. Look at every shot Rose takes on Lebron. Where are the traps you talk about? At one point he has the whole left side cleared out for him, and hes too scared to drive on Bron, calls for a screen. Look at the time he scored on Lebron. No help given to Lebron by his team on the drive, yet he plays great defense, Rose happens to score. Great shot.

Lebron is getting less help here than Butler is. :oldlol: And you were acting like there were walls set up to stop Rose. :oldlol:

EDIT: Look at the play Rose draws a foul on and gets free throws. Had a clear out, couldn't get passed Lebron, and gets a generous call from the officials. Once again, great D by Lebron.

[poido123]

I'm not the one you're arguing here, but to me - being a big Bulls fan - Lebron's ability to guard players like Rose and Parker in the clutch is nothing short of amazing.

Absolutely.

But what myself and Plowking are arguing here is the concept of what is man defense, how Butler played Lebron, and how Lebron played Rose in 2011.

I tryed to make a point about Butler's man defense on Lebron is a better representation than the myth Heat fans throw around alot about how Lebron shut rose down with man defense when it wasn't.

[Trollsmasher]

Who are these people with no bias? Nick Young? Bladers? Kennethgriffin? You?

:roll:
I think he means only himself:lol

[TheReturn]

In my opinion, it is a little different, yeah. When the Heat shut down Rose, it was a different in the sense that they forced the ball out of his hands by trapping him every chance they got. That's actually the opposite of what the Bulls were doing with Jimmy's D on Lebron.

That doesn't take anything away from eithers defensively capabilities, it's just a strategic difference and both of them make sense if you ask me. Rose's teammates at the time didn't get the job done offensively, so it made sense to have them beat you, rather than Rose. With Lebron's passing ability if you can sort of control him without doubling, that's probably your best option in beating Miami in my opinion.

I feel like I'm stating the obvious though, does anyone actually disagree here?

[plowking]

Absolutely.

But what myself and Plowking are arguing here is the concept of what is man defense, how Butler played Lebron, and how Lebron played Rose in 2011.

I tryed to make a point about Butler's man defense on Lebron is a better representation than the myth Heat fans throw around alot about how Lebron shut rose down with man defense when it wasn't.

And the 4th quarter video of game 5 in 2011 proves you wrong already. :oldlol:

Less help, less rotations and more open courts for Rose, yet Lebron still managed to keep him quiet.

Myth debunked yet?

[SamuraiSWISH]

We have a puncher's chance....I really think we are one scorer away.
We have are still a player away. Otherwise we'd have to hope we play lights on on both ends for seven games, and Miami is off their game. If we had a Jamal Crawford, or someone else who can create or score off the bounce, we could beat Miami.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

There were plenty of times where Lebron was defending Rose man-to-man and forced him to take a jumpshot. E.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBcZbKvVknI

Go to 2:45

Another play I vividly remember was at the end of game 4 where Lebron forced Rose into taking a jump-shot which airballed.

http://youtu.be/2PUMoAZ8TPs?t=14m4s

[poido123]

I think he means only himself:lol

I would talk to you if you provided some discussion instead of just trolling all the time...

It's in the other thread, go have a look for yourself.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Chicago has a way better team.


Miami has LeBron.


I got Miami in 5 again for the ECF.

[plowking]

There were plenty of times where Lebron was defending Rose man-to-man and forced him to take a jumpshot. E.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBcZbKvVknI

Go to 2:45

Another play I vividly remember was at the end of game 4 where Lebron forced Rose into taking a jump-shot which airballed.

http://youtu.be/2PUMoAZ8TPs?t=14m4s


Great post. 2 plays on an absolute island, and he throws up two misses.

[poido123]

And the 4th quarter video of game 5 in 2011 proves you wrong already. :oldlol:

Less help, less rotations and more open courts for Rose, yet Lebron still managed to keep him quiet.

Myth debunked yet?

That's the opposite of what I saw.

You're so fustrating, it's unbearable right now...:facepalm

Again, that video particularly the first 3 or so minutes shows the amount of high screen help and defense traps set by guys helping Lebron. The moment rose got inside 10 to 12 feet another guy was helping Bron cut his driving lane off or forcing him into bad areas, which proves my earlier point about the swarming help defense the Heat played and not the man defense you want to make up.

And to think we lost this game up 8 with 2 minutes to go and up 7 with just over 1 and a half minutes to go...

The idiot Heat fans who thought this was not a close series :oldlol:

All of the games were within 10 points around the last quarter except for Game 1 in which Bulls blew the Heat out,...

[Bigsmoke]

Beasley better than Butler

[Trollsmasher]

I would talk to you if you provided some discussion instead of just trolling all the time...

It's in the other t providing something, as plowking is ethering you just enough. You are currently creating two separate myths (although one has probably been created long time ago) in that delusional head of yours. I'm just having a good fun:lol

[SilkkTheShocker]

Beasley better than Butler

:oldlol:

Beasley is a ****ing scrub. Oden is the guy opposing teams should be afraid of playing.

[poido123]

[QUOTE=poido123]I would talk to you if you provided some discussion instead of just trolling all the time...

It's in the other t providing something, as plowking is ethering you just enough. You are currently creating two separate myths (although one has probably been created long time ago) in that delusional head of yours. I'm just having a good fun:lol


Make yourself relevant and provide a lick of knowledge, try and engage people with something interesting and engaging...

You are no better than an old washed up car saleman trying to flog off his last car...Glue factory you go old man :oldlol:

[poido123]

:oldlol:

Beasley is a ****ing scrub. Oden is the guy opposing teams should be afraid of playing.

Agree.

Oden really throws a spanner in the works if he's providing an impact.

Fingers crossed that he doesn't. :(

[arifgokcen]

Wow tonymontana you never cease to amaze me

[plowking]

That's the opposite of what I saw.

You're so fustrating, it's unbearable right now...:facepalm

Again, that video particularly the first 3 or so minutes shows the amount of high screen help and defense traps set by guys helping Lebron. The moment rose got inside 10 to 12 feet another guy was helping Bron cut his driving lane off or forcing him into bad areas, which proves my earlier point about the swarming help defense the Heat played and not the man defense you want to make up.

And to think we lost this game up 8 with 2 minutes to go and up 7 with just over 1 and a half minutes to go...

The idiot Heat fans who thought this was not a close series :oldlol:

All of the games were within 10 points around the last quarter except for Game 1 in which Bulls blew the Heat out,...


I honestly knew nothing would change.

You've been shown two plays of the two guys on an island with each other, and Lebron getting the better of him.

Show me which plays, what are you talking about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-TtcGaUXQY

Go on... there it is.

Play at 2:05. No help. Great D, and Rose still makes the shot.
3:13, Rose has a whole side cleared out, no help for James, and doesn't drive.
3:21 Lebron does a great job staying with him, and gets UD to hedge over, naturally. Same shit as the Butler video. But let me guess, its different? :oldlol:
4:05, Rose using screens, Lebron recovers, steals the ball, while another defender is hedging preventing the screen and roll.
5:13, where is the help, traps, etc that you talk about? Once again a clear out for Rose, and he goes to the hoop and gets a pretty generous call. Great D by Lebron again with no help.
Last play, Lebron does a great job staying with Rose until Gibson I think sets the screen high. Naturally another defender will be there to help.

Literally every play involving the two... lol.
Plus the two plays from game 4 on an island. Where is the help?

Where are the traps, help, etc? Stop bullshitting yourself. I know you're sitting there thinking, shit, I'm wrong, and you're too stubborn to admit it.

Lebron - elite man to man defender.

[97 bulls]

I think the Bulls need a bonfide 2nd scorer to beat the Heat.

I'd be really curious to see If they could Lamarcus Aldridge on that Team without giving up too much.
This exactly. All championship teams need another player that will alleviate some of the pressure the teams best scorer takes. Or sometimes, on those nights when the best scorer doesn't have it, then another guy can step in.

The Bulls dont have that type of player. We can't give the ball to Deng and have him take the game over on offense

[NumberSix]

I honestly knew nothing would change.

You've been shown two plays of the two guys on an island with each other, and Lebron getting the better of him.

Show me which plays, what are you talking about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-TtcGaUXQY

Go on... there it is.

Play at 2:05. No help. Great D, and Rose still makes the shot.
3:13, Rose has a whole side cleared out, no help for James, and doesn't drive.
3:21 Lebron does a great job staying with him, and gets UD to hedge over, naturally. Same shit as the Butler video. But let me guess, its different? :oldlol:
4:05, Rose using screens, Lebron recovers, steals the ball, while another defender is hedging preventing the screen and roll.
5:13, where is the help, traps, etc that you talk about? Once again a clear out for Rose, and he goes to the hoop and gets a pretty generous call. Great D by Lebron again with no help.
Last play, Lebron does a great job staying with Rose until Gibson I think sets the screen high. Naturally another defender will be there to help.

Literally every play involving the two... lol.
Plus the two plays from game 4 on an island. Where is the help?

Where are the traps, help, etc? Stop bullshitting yourself. I know you're sitting there thinking, shit, I'm wrong, and you're too stubborn to admit it.

Lebron - elite man to man defender.
I'm gonna be straight up honest here. He doesn't know that he's wrong. I don't think he even understands what traps or help D even is. He's heard of few trolls claim LeBron is a bad man defender, so he's just rolling with it. In his mind, anyone disagreeing must be nothing more than a delusional LeBron stan. Even though he doesn't understand the issue, the one that is negative against LeBron must be true.

[poido123]

I honestly knew nothing would change.

You've been shown two plays of the two guys on an island with each other, and Lebron getting the better of him.

Show me which plays, what are you talking about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-TtcGaUXQY

Go on... there it is.

Play at 2:05. No help. Great D, and Rose still makes the shot.
3:13, Rose has a whole side cleared out, no help for James, and doesn't drive.
3:21 Lebron does a great job staying with him, and gets UD to hedge over, naturally. Same shit as the Butler video. But let me guess, its different? :oldlol:
4:05, Rose using screens, Lebron recovers, steals the ball, while another defender is hedging preventing the screen and roll.
5:13, where is the help, traps, etc that you talk about? Once again a clear out for Rose, and he goes to the hoop and gets a pretty generous call. Great D by Lebron again with no help.
Last play, Lebron does a great job staying with Rose until Gibson I think sets the screen high. Naturally another defender will be there to help.

Literally every play involving the two... lol.
Plus the two plays from game 4 on an island. Where is the help?

Where are the traps, help, etc? Stop bullshitting yourself. I know you're sitting there thinking, shit, I'm wrong, and you're too stubborn to admit it.

Lebron - elite man to man defender.

I already used my limited data usage watching those other two vids (No shit). I am currently waiting for a new Telstra service to be installed with a big data plan, so I have to be careful ATM.

I am dying to address your points but I won't be able to watch it for myself.

Give me a week and I'll come back with a response to this. I guarantee that you are seeing things again :oldlol: You see what you want to see, we are both accusing each other of the same thing. I think I'm right and so do you? :confusedshrug:

I'm never going to convince you that Lebron's shit don't stink...

[poido123]

I'm gonna be straight up honest here. He doesn't know that he's wrong. I don't think he even understands what traps or help D even is. He's heard of few trolls claim LeBron is a bad man defender, so he's just rolling with it. In his mind, anyone disagreeing must be nothing more than a delusional LeBron stan. Even though he doesn't understand the issue, the one that is negative against LeBron must be true.

And you have conveniently come half way through our discussion with no other intention but join in against a Bulls fan and to troll me. Another quality poster, well done :applause:

By all means, go back to our earlier discussions on this, think it might even carry over from another thread where I clearly explained help D, man defense, weakside D, but I'm not going to go through all that again and it explain it again it is tiring...

[NumberSix]

And you have conveniently come half way through our discussion with no other intention but join in against a Bulls fan and to troll me. Another quality poster, well done :applause:

By all means, go back to our earlier discussions on this, think it might even carry over from another thread where I clearly explained help D, man defense, weakside D, but I'm not going to go through all that again and it explain it again it is tiring...
Well, what would you have me do? You're having video evidence presented to you and you're unable to see what is clearly in front of your face. What am I supposed to say to that? It's not other people who are saying they'll rebut your nonsense claims a week from now. You somehow think your nonsense warrants respectability.

You need to just admit that you were wrong or simply don't understand. There's no other out here. We're not all so stupid that you're going to convince us that what we're seeing on tape simply isn't happening.

[poido123]

Well, what would you have me do? You're having video evidence presented to you and you're unable to see what is clearly in front of your face. What am I supposed to say to that? It's not other people who are saying they'll rebut your nonsense claims a week from now. You need to just admit that you were wrong or simply don't understand. There's no other out here. We're not all so stupid that you're going to convince us that what we're seeing on tape simply isn't happening.


So the people who refute my claim is you (top 5 trolls on ISH), Plowking(never has a bad word to say about Lebron), who else? Oh, Trollsmasher (another top 5 troll on ISH) :roll: :roll: :roll:

Well I cannot possibly disagree with those people can I? :oldlol:

I know of 4 people who agreed with me off the top of my head, NightProwler, Tpols, and DeSaba (big heat fan), Aj1987(another Heat fan) and can't remember who else. But of course you didn't bother to look at the whole discussion and made quick assumptions like you usually do...

[Bigsmoke]

:oldlol:

Beasley is a ****ing scrub. Oden is the guy opposing teams should be afraid of playing.

Beasley can explode in a few games

[All Net]

Well this topic has been predictable.

[NumberSix]

So the people who refute my claim is you (top 5 trolls on ISH), Plowking(never has a bad word to say about Lebron), who else? Oh, Trollsmasher (another top 5 troll on ISH) :roll: :roll: :roll:

Well I cannot possibly disagree with those people can I? :oldlol:

I know of 4 people who agreed with me off the top of my head, NightProwler, Tpols, and DeSaba (big heat fan), Aj1987(another Heat fan) and can't remember who else. But of course you didn't bother to look at the whole discussion and made quick assumptions like you usually do...
You're not disagreeing with people, you're disagreeing with video proof.

[TonyMontana]

pedo123 you are embarassing yourself.

The Bulls guard LeBron with the entire team. First they put a good athlete like Jimmy Butler on him. But as soon as LeBron makes any sort of move to the basket the defense collapses. This is most obvious with Joakim Noah who makes sure he is shadowing LeBron behind Jimmy.

The Spurs did the exact same thing with Kawhi Leonard and Duncan.

Edit: And now I see your somehow trying to argue against LeBron when Rose shot 6.3% from the field when being primarily defended by him. :oldlol: You got the statistics, you got the footage. LeBron made him his boo and stole that MVP away from him just like Hakeem-Robinson in 95. :oldlol:

[Go Getter]

pedo123 you are embarassing yourself.

The Bulls guard LeBron with the entire team. First they put a good athlete like Jimmy Butler on him. But as soon as LeBron makes any sort of move to the basket the defense collapses. This is most obvious with Joakim Noah who makes sure he is shadowing LeBron behind Jimmy.

The Spurs did the exact same thing with Kawhi Leonard and Duncan.

Edit: And now I see your somehow trying to argue against LeBron when Rose shot 6.3% from the field when being primarily defended by him. :oldlol: You got the statistics, you got the footage. LeBron made him his boo and stole that MVP away from him just like Hakeem-Robinson in 95. :oldlol:


The Heat guarded Rose a lot like that too but ppl act like Lebron held him down solo like a one-on-one game, smh....and flashback to the regular season Rose gave Lebron buckets with ease.

Lebron played poorly in his first HUGE series versus the more experienced Spurs and he got better and learned from his mistakes. I expect Rose to do the same, well, I hope....

[97 bulls]

pedo123 you are embarassing yourself.

The Bulls guard LeBron with the entire team. First they put a good athlete like Jimmy Butler on him. But as soon as LeBron makes any sort of move to the basket the defense collapses. This is most obvious with Joakim Noah who makes sure he is shadowing LeBron behind Jimmy.

The Spurs did the exact same thing with Kawhi Leonard and Duncan.

Edit: And now I see your somehow trying to argue against LeBron when Rose shot 6.3% from the field when being primarily defended by him. :oldlol: You got the statistics, you got the footage. LeBron made him his boo and stole that MVP away from him just like Hakeem-Robinson in 95. :oldlol:
Butler did a great job on James plain and simple. He fought over screens and picks, moved his feet, and most importantly, made James go left. Did he have help on some occasions? Sure. But id give 85% credit to Butler.

James on the other hand had plenty of help. Never really had to fight over any real picks, and just dared Rose to shoot.

While I still believe the Bulls need a second guy to help out Rose, I do feel the Bulls have a shot with the personnel they have. A player like Lamarcus Aldridge would just make it an all but guarantee.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Butler did a great job on James plain and simple. He fought over screens and picks, moved his feet, and most importantly, made James go left. Did he have help on some occasions? Sure. But id give 85% credit to Butler.

James on the other hand had plenty of help. Never really had to fight over any real picks, and just dared Rose to shoot.

While I still believe the Bulls need a second guy to help out Rose, I do feel the Bulls have a shot with the personnel they have. A player like Lamarcus Aldridge would just make it an all but guarantee.

Jesus Christ, you're delusional. Watch the footage again. They collapse anytime LeBron tried to drive. You Chicago fans aren't too smart. Than again, you're more likely to get shot in the face than get a high school education when living in that shit hole

[97 bulls]

That's the opposite of what I saw.

You're so fustrating, it's unbearable right now...:facepalm

Again, that video particularly the first 3 or so minutes shows the amount of high screen help and defense traps set by guys helping Lebron. The moment rose got inside 10 to 12 feet another guy was helping Bron cut his driving lane off or forcing him into bad areas, which proves my earlier point about the swarming help defense the Heat played and not the man defense you want to make up.

And to think we lost this game up 8 with 2 minutes to go and up 7 with just over 1 and a half minutes to go...

The idiot Heat fans who thought this was not a close series :oldlol:

All of the games were within 10 points around the last quarter except for Game 1 in which Bulls blew the Heat out,...
These guys are idiots. There one play where Haslem is even motioning James to come back for a trap. Thats all they did the whole series. James is livin off those two plays where Rose missed in I believe game four.

[97 bulls]

Jesus Christ, you're delusional. Watch the footage again. They collapse anytime LeBron tried to drive. You Chicago fans aren't too smart. Than again, you're more likely to get shot in the face than get a high school education when living in that shit hole
I watched both clips as well as both series. Butler shut James down. The only reason youd see another Bulls defender is because his man was comming over to set a pick on Butler to free James.

And granted, when James did get to the basket he (Butler) had help. But thats the game. Butler's job is to make James go left, and contest his jumpshot. He did an admirable job.

Heres the vid.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCgQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fm.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLHwMk n6tvnE%26desktop_uri%3D%252Fwatch%253Fv%253DLHwMkn 6tvnE&ei=A15YUuWvDeiK4AS8soGgCw&usg=AFQjCNGpTYF7n0DOBi4Q8PoGoh-gojsqew

[Trollsmasher]

Butler did a great job on James plain and simple. He fought over screens and picks, moved his feet, and most importantly, made James go left. Did he have help on some occasions? Sure. But id give 85% credit to Butler.

James on the other hand had plenty of help. Never really had to fight over any real picks, and just dared Rose to shoot.

While I still believe the Bulls need a second guy to help out Rose, I do feel the Bulls have a shot with the personnel they have. A player like Lamarcus Aldridge would just make it an all but guarantee.
What is important about that? You clearly have no idea of what you are talking about:lol

[HoopsFanNumero1]

What is important about that? You clearly have no idea of what you are talking about:lol

Watch. He's gonna bring up that bs where Jordan said the way to beat Lebron is to make him go left.

[97 bulls]

I just watched the vid again. I can count more times when Butler did get help as opposed to not. He really did man up James on his own.

[97 bulls]

What is important about that? You clearly have no idea of what you are talking about:lol
Lol you clearly don't know a damn thing about basketball. Id bet your some fat outta shap nerd that doenst even watch the game but just the recap on ESPN.

[97 bulls]

Watch. He's gonna bring up that bs where Jordan said the way to beat Lebron is to make him go left.
Lol you're as dumb as the other kid.

[Trollsmasher]

Lol you clearly don't know a damn thing about basketball. Id bet your some fat outta shap nerd that doenst even watch the game but just the recap on ESPN.
So tell me - what is good about forcing LeBron left when he is better at driving left while also having an option to take a jump shot while going left?:lol

[97 bulls]

So tell me - what is good about forcing LeBron left when he is better at driving left while also having an option to take a jump shot while going left?:lol
Because James doesnt shoot off the dribble. Hes a set shooter. If he goes, hes going all the way more often than not. And hes not a efficient when going to his left.

[nathanjizzle]

Jesus Christ, you're delusional. Watch the footage again. They collapse anytime LeBron tried to drive. You Chicago fans aren't too smart. Than again, you're more likely to get shot in the face than get a high school education when living in that shit hole

I guess you never got a high school education neither.

[nathanjizzle]

to all my bulls brethrens. dont take these lebron dick riders seriously, they are lebron stans not miami heat fans. they are deathly afraid of what might come. lets sit back and see what happens, i promise we will have the last laugh :lol

[secund2nun]

Only low IQ bball fans actually believe Butler shut down Lebron. Lebron was surrounded each time he got into the paint. Noah is the best defensive player on that team. It's no different than the Spurs with Duncan in the paint, packing the paint. Low IQ fans think everything is 1 on 1 and try to simplify things because it's what NBA jam told them. They get enamored by overrated perimeter scrubs like Brandon Jennings who play "sexy" while underappreciating the best defenders who are centers like Noah and Duncan.

[Trollsmasher]

Because James doesnt shoot off the dribble. Hes a set shooter. If he goes, hes going all the way more often than not. And hes not a efficient when going to his left.
Too bad he is more efficient going left than right. Try again

LeBron..........Tendency In Isolation
Drives left:................ 34%
Drives right:............... 28%
Jumper no drive:......... 38%

Points Per Play Based On Decision
............................Score Pct<<
Drive left......1.14........ 60%
Drive right....0.96.........48%
Jumper no drive... 1.04...46%
>>Pct of plays that result in points

[97 bulls]

Only low IQ bball fans actually believe Butler shut down Lebron. Lebron was surrounded each time he got into the paint. Noah is the best defensive player on that team. It's no different than the Spurs with Duncan in the paint, packing the paint. Low IQ fans think everything is 1 on 1 and try to simplify things because it's what NBA jam told them. They get enamored by overrated perimeter scrubs like Brandon Jennings who play "sexy" while underappreciating the best defenders who are centers like Noah and Duncan.
I posted the video. A large portion of it was James in the post and taking a couple jab steps and pulling up. I acknowledged that someone came over to help on some drives to the rim but fir the most part, it was all Butler.

[aj1987]

I guess you never got a high school education neither.
http://www.pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/demotivationalposters-org.jpeg

[97 bulls]

Too bad he is more efficient going left than right. Try again

LeBron..........Tendency In Isolation
Drives left:................ 34%
Drives right:............... 28%
Jumper no drive:......... 38%

Points Per Play Based On Decision
............................Score Pct<<
Drive left......1.14........ 60%
Drive right....0.96.........48%
Jumper no drive... 1.04...46%
>>Pct of plays that result in points
Lol. Dumbass. All this shows is how often he goes left and right. Much of which is dictated by how the defender is playing him. Which is exactly what was shown in the video.

So if hes being forced left more often than right, would it not be safe to conclude hes probably going to score more going left?


Edit: I apologize for calling you a dumbass. You're just a fool

[Trollsmasher]

Lol. Dumbass. All this shows is how often he goes left and right. Much of which is dictated by how the defender is playing him. Which is exactly what was shown in the video.

So if hes being forced left more often than right, would it not be safe to conclude hes probably going to score more going left?


Edit: I apologize for calling you a dumbass. You're just a fool
And Points per Play for driving both left and right is nothing for you I guess?

[97 bulls]

Only low IQ bball fans actually believe Butler shut down Lebron. Lebron was surrounded each time he got into the paint. Noah is the best defensive player on that team. It's no different than the Spurs with Duncan in the paint, packing the paint. Low IQ fans think everything is 1 on 1 and try to simplify things because it's what NBA jam told them. They get enamored by overrated perimeter scrubs like Brandon Jennings who play "sexy" while underappreciating the best defenders who are centers like Noah and Duncan.
Thats the difference between Bulls fans and posters such as you. We acknowledge that on occasions, Butler did have help. You guys feel as if when James was assigned to Rose, all the other Heat defenders took a seat in the stands and watched with the rest of the fans.

[97 bulls]

And Points per Play for driving both left and right is nothing for you I guess?
Nope.

[secund2nun]

I posted the video. A large portion of it was James in the post and taking a couple jab steps and pulling up. I acknowledged that someone came over to help on some drives to the rim but fir the most part, it was all Butler.

Butler did a good job yes, but it was nowhere near all Butler. If they left if all up to Butler he would have been destroyed. Noah in the paint and Chicago's decision to pack the paint on Lebron was the key. Lebron was pulling up so much because the paint was packed and Noah was there, not because he could not get past Butler. See what happens if you replace Noah with Brook Lopez............ or when you replace Wade with Ray Allen, suddenly Lebron starts scoring much better because that packed paint is no longer that packed.

[97 bulls]

Butler did a good job yes, but it was nowhere near all Butler. If they left if all up to Butler he would have been destroyed. Noah in the paint and Chicago's decision to pack the paint on Lebron was the key. Lebron was pulling up so much because the paint was packed and Noah was there, not because he could not get past Butler. See what happens if you replace Noah with Brook Lopez............ or when you replace Wade with Ray Allen, suddenly Lebron starts scoring much better because that packed paint is no longer that packed.
He was also attempting to post up Butler. Or hed just hold the ball give a few jab steps and pull. It wasn't all packing the paint.

We may disagree, but lets see if we can count how times James saw a double team in that vid. And mind you showing is not a double team. And that means both perimeter and paint

[97 bulls]

I counted 9 NINE plays where Butler had help. Out of roughly 30-40 plays.

[NumberSix]

I counted 9 NINE plays where Butler had help. Out of roughly 30-40 plays.
Yeah, butler is a really good defender. I don't think anyone is arguing that he isn't.

[97 bulls]

Yeah, butler is a really good defender. I don't think anyone is arguing that he isn't.
I know. But im getting the impression that some people feel Butler had a lot of help thats not true.

And mind you, im in no way saying Butler would make James irrelevant, but hes definitely not going to allow James to do what he does at the level weve come to appreciate.

[poido123]

You're not disagreeing with people, you're disagreeing with video proof.

I'm disagreeing with Plowking's interpretation of what he saw from the video among other things.

What's your point? :confusedshrug:

[poido123]

Thats the difference between Bulls fans and posters such as you. We acknowledge that on occasions, Butler did have help. You guys feel as if when James was assigned to Rose, all the other Heat defenders took a seat in the stands and watched with the rest of the fans.


This, so true :applause:

I've never come accross a fanbase with such a heavy delusion like the Heat fans...(excluding DeSaba, AJ1987, and sometimes Plowking)

[PickernRoller]

Heat fans showing sign of fear this early. :roll: :roll:

[Bigsmoke]

Heat fans showing sign of fear this early. :roll: :roll:

The OP isnt a Heat fan.

Dats RG

[riseagainst]

seems like an excuse thread just in case the Heat loses this year.

:confusedshrug: