Christopher Columbus..

[Fresh Kid]

:facepalm Man I dont get it, dis niguh iz a hero and have a holiday named after him from stealing land from tha indians man, this niguh didnt discover America, man I always wondered why this niguh got a holiday, he must been illuminati or something, cuz he didnt establish shit:no: , and tha government kiss his ass, trained us since elementary skool days to kiss his ass, for no damn reason!:biggums: Tha only thing thats positive iz having a day off of skool and work (even tho niguhs need that OT bread with work), Whats your thoughtz on this historical grimey ass niguh named christopher columbus?:coleman:

[Balla_Status]

He never stepped foot in America.

[MMM]

He never stepped foot in America.

USA is not America
America as in the Americas or American continents

[Fresh Kid]

He never stepped foot in America.
damn itz krazy how tha government be lyin ' to us:facepalm

[Nick Young]

Dem Norse be steppin foot in America 500 years before dis Columbus nicca was born doe.

[rezznor]

Columbus was an asshole

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[Andrei89]

:facepalm Man I dont get it, dis niguh iz a hero and have a holiday named after him from stealing land from tha indians man, this niguh didnt discover America, man I always wondered why this niguh got a holiday, he must been illuminati or something, cuz he didnt establish shit:no: , and tha government kiss his ass, trained us since elementary skool days to kiss his ass, for no damn reason!:biggums: Tha only thing thats positive iz having a day off of skool and work (even tho niguhs need that OT bread with work), Whats your thoughtz on this historical grimey ass niguh named christopher columbus?:coleman:


Question is. Why you have to talk like that? You sound like a retard. Really.

[OldSkoolball#52]

The problem with history is that we want to act like people who are discovered later to have been imperfect are suddenly viewed as inconsequential.


So far Abraham Lincoln's legacy has been left surprisingly in tact, considering he openly declared for most of his campaigns and term that he'd never take the southern states' slaves away from them. Only when it became political leverage during the south's secession and the subsequent civil war did he threaten to free slaves. He also, upon freeing them, had absolutely no vision or intention of an integrated society. The idea was to either give them land reservations like the indians or just expel them to Africa. Both of these proved too logistically difficult so nothin ever happened. But its not cause of Lincolns compassion and humanitarianism.

MLK Jr was a pretty outspoken christian, but was supposedly a pretty lowkey adulterer. Do I personally think thats some sort of heinous crime, no. But it does indicate a good deal of hypocrisy and hubris.


If you dont wanna celebrate Columbus Day, then dont. Who cares. Its just an excuse for a holiday. What is there to complain about??

[JtotheIzzo]

Yep, Vikings, Irish Monks, and all sorts of different Chinamen were said to have discovered the new continents first, well, not really that new considering the red man was holding fort all those centuries before anyone, but I digress, Bill Gates didn't invent the PC and Steve Jobs didn't invent the smartphone, but they took shit to the next level and brought in a whole new era.

Columbus sparked a new era of kicking ass and taking names, divide, conquer, enslave, what the white man is best at (that and budgeting money, but the US has done f*cked that up now haven't they?), this is why heavy metal became the white man's soul music, because it harkens back to the days when crackers ran roughshod all over the green and blue.

Columbus may not be a hero today, but under today's standard's neither is any important historical figure who ever rocked a whig, puffy shirt or buckled boots (Jefferson, Washington, Kings, Queens etc. all scumbags).

Columbus set out and did some shit before all his contemporaries and that set the table for the next 600 years and after thousands of centuries of growing at a snails pace, shit went supersonic, Columbus was to travel what Liam and Noel were to Britpop.

Recognize b*tches, as fine an Italian as their ever was (Popes not included).

[B-Low]

Eh, I get a paid day off from work. They can call today whatever they want. Shit give Carmello Anthony a holiday if you want..call it Carmelloween, and I'll shut up about it and sleep til 10.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Yep, Vikings, Irish Monks, and all sorts of different Chinamen were said to have discovered the new continents first, well, not really that new considering the red man was holding fort all those centuries before anyone, but I digress, Bill Gates didn't invent the PC and Steve Jobs didn't invent the smartphone, but they took shit to the next level and brought in a whole new era.


True indeed. Henry Ford didnt invent the car either. But he made them matter.






.....Also, dude, Chinamen is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian American, please.




Columbus sparked a new era of kicking ass and taking names, divide, conquer, enslave, what the white man is best at (that and budgeting money, but the US has done f*cked that up now haven't they?), this is why heavy metal became the white man's soul music, because it harkens back to the days when crackers ran roughshod all over the green and blue.

Well, thats really more the jew man, who comes in a variety of shades.

[Qwyjibo]

I thought Columbus did a pretty good job directing the first two Harry Potter movies. They were a bit rigid in terms of trying to be faithful adaptations but very effective nonetheless.

I say if you want to give him a holiday for that, go for it.

[gigantes]

there was a recent cave art find in brasil that suggested that man was living in the americas 29,000 years ago. IIRC, there was also some evidence that the settlement, or a similar one, had african origins.


so after many decades of findings like these, it's pretty clear that crystal-ball colon (columbus) was pretty much the LAST figure in history to discover the americas... not the first.

also, AFAIK... about the only peoples who didn't discover the americas at some point were australian aborigines. so better luck next time, miller-time. :D

[OldSkoolball#52]

there was a recent cave art find in brasil that suggested that man was living in the americas 29,000 years ago. IIRC, there was also some evidence that the settlement, or a similar one, had african origins.




Link

[rufuspaul]

Eh, I get a paid day off from work. They can call today whatever they want. Shit give Carmello Anthony a holiday if you want..call it Carmelloween, and I'll shut up about it and sleep til 10.


:lol

[DCL]

it's like non-religious people celebrating christmas. they don't give two shits about jesus, but it's a holiday, so hooray.

[CeltsGarlic]

omg you all hating a guy for a job you wouldnt dare ever.

[Knicks101]

I thought Columbus did a pretty good job directing the first two Harry Potter movies. They were a bit rigid in terms of trying to be faithful adaptations but very effective nonetheless.

I say if you want to give him a holiday for that, go for it.

Them man who was responsible for the atrocity known as Little Nemo: Adventures in Slumberland? Never.

[JtotheIzzo]

omg you all hating a guy for a job you wouldnt dare ever.

No one is hating anyone emo, thank god the west was settled so we didn't have to all live in Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkRdIss11PY

[gigantes]

Link
that's one. i forget where i saw the original article. i read like 4 - 5 different feeds across multiple devices... can't keep em straight.

http://news.yahoo.com/prehistoric-brazil-artifacts-star-exhibit-spark-debate-070249845.html

[CeltsGarlic]

No one is hating anyone emo, thank god the west was settled so we didn't have to all live in Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkRdIss11PY

Cosing bro. You wouldnt fit in with lack of football skills and hard working mentality, lack of attachment to their family and greediness.

Oh Kroll show. I watched first ep. it was pretty disappointing. Gonna give another try tonight, cause he is funny.

[gigantes]

it's like non-religious people celebrating christmas. they don't give two shits about jesus, but it's a holiday, so hooray.
i'm not a christian, but i care about solstice, holiday, and certain messages of jesus. so there.

[DCL]

even if there was a holiday to honor some absurd figure like ted kaczynski, i doubt too many people would complain that they'd all rather go to work.

sure, it makes sense to complain and go WTF, but if it's a holiday... it makes more sense to shut the f up. :oldlol:

[$LakerGold]

It was weak, but it's a fact. A fact is a fact.

[rufuspaul]

I wasn't aware that the Knights of Columbus pushed for the holiday. It seems Columbus' embellished legend was already revered by American bluebloods.

per Wiki:



The name of Columbus was also partially intended as a mild rebuke to Anglo-Saxon Protestant leaders, who upheld the explorer (a Catholic Genovese Italian working for Catholic Spain) as an American hero, yet simultaneously sought to marginalize recent Catholic immigrants. In taking Columbus as their patron, they were sending the message that not only could Catholics be full members of American society, but were, in fact, instrumental in its foundation.


I have a lot of respect for the KOC even if they succeeded in creating a holiday celebrating one of the great assholes of history.



In 2012, the Order gave over US$167.5 million directly to charity and performed over 70 million man-hours of voluntary service,[7] with over 413,000 pints of blood donated in 2010.

[secund2nun]

Colombus is a ruthless murderer and you are right he did not discover America. But remember the illuminati has corrupted nearly every single field out knowledge out there including history.

[MavsSuperFan]

Columbus was an asshole

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You could make one of these for every single early white leader in the new world. Even our precious George Washington.

[Bucket_Nakedz]

i remember learning about him in second grade and how he discovered america and that anything that was going on before that didn't mean shiet.

he is prolly one of the biggest snakes in all of history. discovering what is now the dominican republic, going back to europe and lying to spanish royalty bout how he find a land full of gold so he can get sponsored.

then going back to the dominican and basically enslaving what seemed to be very nice and innocent indigenous peeps to do his bidding of finding gold.

couldn't find shiet, so he sold those poor indigenous as slaves to cover his ass. so yeah, in a sense, i can see why he is called the father of america. cuz american settlers followed dat nigguhs blueprint to a tee

[Bucket_Nakedz]

that's why i don't believe in western religion, or any religion in that matter. these motherfukkers are all scum for spreading their bullshiet and manipulating history.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Quote:
In 2012, the Order gave over US$167.5 million directly to charity and performed over 70 million man-hours of voluntary service,[7] with over 413,000 pints of blood donated in 2010.


So what? Theyre tea party monsters who dont wanna pay higher taxes for endless entitlements handed out at the discretion of a politician who didnt earn the money. They are the problem with America.


**** charity and volunteering. These people are pure evil. Theyre not as hip and progressive as theyre supposed to be. Withdraw your respect immediately.

[rufuspaul]

So what? Theyre tea party monsters who dont wanna pay higher taxes for endless entitlements handed out at the discretion of a politician who didnt earn the money. They are the problem with America.


**** charity and volunteering. These people are pure evil. Theyre not as hip and progressive as theyre supposed to be. Withdraw your respect immediately.


Catholics are Tea Partiers? News to me.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Catholics are Tea Partiers? News to me.


I was purposely conflating groups that are similar, which typically puts PC lefties into a tizzy... except when they want to do it themselves.


Stand up a lil taller and thangs wont go over your head.

[gigantes]

did someone mention...?

http://img.izismile.com/img/img6/20131014/640/daily_picdump_1360_640_33.jpg

[secund2nun]

This is what Columbus wrote of the indigenous Taino people of the Caribbean:


They traded with us and gave us everything they had, with good will...they took great delight in pleasing us..They are very gentle and without knowledge of what is evil; nor do they murder or steal...Your highness may believe that in all the world there can be no better people...They love their neighbours as themselves, and they have the sweetest talk in the world, and are gentle and always laughing.

And then he ruthlessly enslaved and murdered them in a systematic genocide. Sick Illuminati freak. He worked for the direct Illuminati bloodlines that still rule today as the supposedly "powerless just for show" European Royal families (plus the banking families) which is why they don't teach the truth about Columbus.

Colombus genocide killed millions and millions of Taino. When Columbus first arrived there were an estimated 8 million Taino. By the time he left there were around 100,000 left. Even after he left the policies were still in effect. Eventually the population decreased to 20,000 not long after his departure.

Among the policies Colombus established are:

*Slavery
*grilled and cut up the Taino into pieces
*run down by dogs and torn to pieces
*burned alive often 13 Taino at a time
*they threw babies into rocks and rivers and laughed about it per their own journals
*decapitated them
*intentionally spread disease (no different than the British/Americans settlers)

[rezznor]

You could make one of these for every single early white leader in the new world. Even our precious George Washington.
yea, but we aren't celebrating washington day right now, are we? :D

[rezznor]

did someone mention...?

http://img.izismile.com/img/img6/20131014/640/daily_picdump_1360_640_33.jpg
all that was missing was "refereed by the Illuminati and half time dance number performed by GLAAD"

[OldSkoolball#52]

This is what Columbus wrote of the indigenous Taino people of the Caribbean:



And then he ruthlessly enslaved and murdered them in a systematic genocide. Sick Illuminati freak. He worked for the direct Illuminati bloodlines that still rule today as the supposedly "powerless just for show" European Royal families (plus the banking families) which is why they don't teach the truth about Columbus.

Colombus genocide killed millions and millions of Taino. When Columbus first arrived there were an estimated 8 million Taino. By the time he left there were around 100,000 left. Even after he left the policies were still in effect. Eventually the population decreased to 20,000 not long after his departure.

Among the policies Colombus established are:

*Slavery
*grilled and cut up the Taino into pieces
*run down by dogs and torn to pieces
*burned alive often 13 Taino at a time
*they threw babies into rocks and rivers and laughed about it per their own journals
*decapitated them


Its funny because Indian tribes get credit for bein so benevolent to the white man. But thats simply because whitey showed up from the ocean with mystical technologies, and the spiritual injuns were all in awe.

Let those same injuns come across a rich, lush valley in their travels, inhabited by a primitive and defenseless dark skinned peoples. Lets postulate just how magnanimous theyd have been.



Oh, wait, wait. I forgot. Being ruthless is only an unforgivable historical crime.... when white people do it.

[bdreason]

The only people who 'celebrate' Columbus day are kids and government workers.

[secund2nun]

Its funny because Indian tribes get credit for bein so benevolent to the white man. But thats simply because whitey showed up from the ocean with mystical technologies, and the spiritual injuns were all in awe.

Let those same injuns come across a rich, lush valley in their travels, inhabited by a primitive and defenseless dark skinned peoples. Lets postulate just how magnanimous theyd have been.



Oh, wait, wait. I forgot. Being ruthless is only an unforgivable historical crime.... when white people do it.

The natives were nice to the Europeans because they were not corrupted with materialism and controlled by the Illuminati royal bloodlines.

Natives rejected materialism. They had no interest in fancy technologies. Materialism is evil.

You gotta admit Whites have conquered the world with terrible slavery genocidal policies whether it be Africa, India or the Americas. They have caused mass genocides. This was all done under the orders of the Illuminati families. Even today it still goes on with the western powers installing ruthless violent dictators in foreign countries who put US corporate interest at heart first.

[gigantes]

just for shits and giggles, which particular illuminati society were y'all referring to?


there have been dozens of such organisations across history... probably a dozen different dipshit orgs right now calling themselves "illuminati"... so which particular one did y'all mean? :lol


EDIT: dang, can't spell today.

[Jailblazers7]

Its funny because Indian tribes get credit for bein so benevolent to the white man. But thats simply because whitey showed up from the ocean with mystical technologies, and the spiritual injuns were all in awe.

Let those same injuns come across a rich, lush valley in their travels, inhabited by a primitive and defenseless dark skinned peoples. Lets postulate just how magnanimous theyd have been.



Oh, wait, wait. I forgot. Being ruthless is only an unforgivable historical crime.... when white people do it.

It is kind of hard to be up in arms about the brutality of empires like the Aztecs when they are irrelevant in modern geopolitics. The behavior of white people in the Americas during the 1400-present is still a topic because the cause/effect of those events are relevant to the modern world.

[OldSkoolball#52]

It is kind of hard to be up in arms about the brutality of empires like the Aztecs when they are irrelevant in modern geopolitics. The behavior of white people in the Americas during the 1400-present is still a topic because the cause/effect of those events are relevant to the modern world.


Yep. To the victor, goes... the hate.


Nobody hates the Arizona Cardinals or the Minnesota Twins. Lotta people hate the Yankees and Coboys tho.

Wilt said it best: Nobody roots for Goliath

White people on top? White people get scorn. What's bizare and seemingly counter intuitive tho is how many of em are willing to take it.

One thing that does separate humans from animals is that we've evolved the ability to empathize, but please people... So of yall are just takin it too far.

[rufuspaul]

I was purposely conflating groups that are similar, which typically puts PC lefties into a tizzy... except when they want to do it themselves.


Stand up a lil taller and thangs wont go over your head.


It would help if your sarcasm at least made a little sense. Instead of going over anyone's head, it simply lies on the ground waiting for someone to notice it before crawling off to die a lonely death.

[OldSkoolball#52]

It would help if your sarcasm at least made a little sense. Instead of going over anyone's head, it simply lies on the ground waiting for someone to notice it before crawling off to die a lonely death.


Youre being sarcastic here, right?

[CelticBaller]

Poor Columbus, settlers have been killing natives for the longest and he gets called out because he has a holiday :(

[Hazard]

Greed transcends race and nationality.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Poor Columbus, settlers have been killing natives for the longest and he gets called out because he has a holiday :(



European dude kills people with muskets on a mission for gold?

White devil.

Black guy kills people with drones on a mission for oil?

Nobel Peace Prize.


:lol

[gigantes]

Youre being sarcastic here, right?
face it, bro... you got burned on that one. :banana:

[Dictator]

European dude kills people with muskets on a mission for gold?

White devil.

Black guy kills people with drones on a mission for oil?

Nobel Peace Prize.


:lol

Great Comparison. :coleman:

[OldSkoolball#52]

face it, bro... you got burned on that one. :banana:


Never!

[boozehound]

Yep, Vikings, Irish Monks, and all sorts of different Chinamen were said to have discovered the new continents first, well, not really that new considering the red man was holding fort all those centuries before anyone, but I digress, Bill Gates didn't invent the PC and Steve Jobs didn't invent the smartphone, but they took shit to the next level and brought in a whole new era.

Columbus sparked a new era of kicking ass and taking names, divide, conquer, enslave, what the white man is best at (that and budgeting money, but the US has done f*cked that up now haven't they?), this is why heavy metal became the white man's soul music, because it harkens back to the days when crackers ran roughshod all over the green and blue.

Columbus may not be a hero today, but under today's standard's neither is any important historical figure who ever rocked a whig, puffy shirt or buckled boots (Jefferson, Washington, Kings, Queens etc. all scumbags).

Columbus set out and did some shit before all his contemporaries and that set the table for the next 600 years and after thousands of centuries of growing at a snails pace, shit went supersonic, Columbus was to travel what Liam and Noel were to Britpop.

Recognize b*tches, as fine an Italian as their ever was (Popes not included).
too bad hes a Catalan!

[IamRAMBO24]

For the record, the first explorers were asians from the Polynesian islands (which became native americans due to environmental factors). Only in American history would they attribute everything to westerners. Open your mind folks, not every great human achievement came from this side of the world.

[MavsSuperFan]

For the record, the first explorers were asians from the Polynesian islands (which became native americans due to environmental factors). Only in American history would they attribute everything to westerners. Open your mind folks, not every great human achievement came from this side of the world.
Polynesian explorers never came close to south america. they did get surprisingly far out into the pacific (Eg. Guam, Hawaii, Fiji, etc), but nowhere close to south america.

The aboriginal peoples crossed from the bering strait, back when North America and Eurasia was connected.

[IamRAMBO24]

Polynesian explorers never came close to south america. they did get surprisingly far out into the pacific (Eg. Guam, Hawaii, Fiji, etc), but nowhere close to south america.

The aboriginal peoples crossed from the bering strait, back when North America and Eurasia was connected.

Whatever.

Give credit where it is due. Based on recent genetic findings, the polynesian explorers (who originated from asia), were the first explorers of the pacific. It goes to reason since they were so close to the Americas, and not to mention native americans have asian phenotypes (meaning they look like asians but a bit darker due to environment), the first Americans were indeed asians themselves.

Do you truly believe Native Americans came out of thin air with absolutely no ties to any other race on this planet? GTFO.

[JtotheIzzo]

too bad hes a Catalan!

He was born in Genoa, I don`t think you can get more Guinea than that!

[AintNoSunshine]

Wasn't he finding India anyways? He "found" America accidentally.

And if you start from Europe and sail West, you WILL reach America so it's not like he did something nobody else could do:oldlol:

[Myth]

Question is. Why you have to talk like that? You sound like a retard. Really.

Yeah, and it isn't like he always posted like that. He just started doing it, probably because he thinks it is cool.

[Myth]

That thing that Rezzner posted about Bartolome and Columbus cuts off the part that Bartolome suggested using black people instead of Native Americans for slaves. Columbus was not a good guy, but to suggest that Columbus started the slave trade from Africa while praising the guy who suggested switching to black slaves is pretty f-ed up.

[rufuspaul]

That thing that Rezzner posted about Bartolome and Columbus cuts off the part that Bartolome suggested using black people instead of Native Americans for slaves. Columbus was not a good guy, but to suggest that Columbus started the slave trade from Africa while praising the guy who suggested switching to black slaves is pretty f-ed up.


Maybe we should just settle on every European in history was at heart a ruthless bastard. :confusedshrug:

[Lebowsky]

That thing that Rezzner posted about Bartolome and Columbus cuts off the part that Bartolome suggested using black people instead of Native Americans for slaves. Columbus was not a good guy, but to suggest that Columbus started the slave trade from Africa while praising the guy who suggested switching to black slaves is pretty f-ed up.
I don't agree with that at all. He did indeed argue in favour of African slave force as a replacement for Amerindian slaves, but he changed his opinion later on in his life. He regretted his former stance on the matter, and apologized for it in his work. He even wrote a short piece denouncing the mistreatment of Africans by the Portuguese and Castillian crowns.

Columbus, de las Casas and many others were people of their time, plain and simple. Catholic morals were the lens through which they saw and interpreted the world. When they first found native Africans and native Americans, they viewed them as animals devoid of a soul and incapable or reasoning, therefore they were not people and had no rights. It took a long time for the Catholic church to consider indigenous people as equals (from a spiritual point of view), and that's when religious colonialism began, but that's a different story.

[gigantes]

... Columbus, de las Casas and many others were people of their time, plain and simple. Catholic morals were the lens through which they saw and interpreted the world. When they first found native Africans and native Americans, they viewed them as animals devoid of a soul and incapable or reasoning, therefore they were not people and had no rights. It took a long time for the Catholic church to consider indigenous people as equals (from a spiritual point of view), and that's when religious colonialism began, but that's a different story.
:applause:

[Scholar]

Yeah, f*ck Christopher Columbus.

Like millions of other American children, I was forced to believe this dude was an outstanding human being who changed the world for the betterment of humanity.
That's not the case. I began taking advanced history classes in high school and that's when I learned about how heinous this man was.
I'll just leave this at: I'll never celebrate this bs holiday, but I'll gladly accept a day off. Seeing as I don't usually get days off on federal holidays, I guess f*ck Christopher "the child molesting, racist rapist" Columbus.

[MavsSuperFan]

Yeah, f*ck Christopher Columbus.

Like millions of other American children, I was forced to believe this dude was an outstanding human being who changed the world for the betterment of humanity.
That's not the case. I began taking advanced history classes in high school and that's when I learned about how heinous this man was.
I'll just leave this at: I'll never celebrate this bs holiday, but I'll gladly accept a day off. Seeing as I don't usually get days off on federal holidays, I guess f*ck Christopher "the child molesting, racist rapist" Columbus.

All 3 of these things are true.

Columbus may not have even been the first european to land in the new world, but he did begin the wave that eventually resulted in what is the modern North and South America. everyone other than the natives benefited from this. If you live in America today, and are not native american, you benefited from his crimes.

[CelticBaller]

All 3 of these things are true.

Columbus may not have even been the first european to land in the new world, but he did begin the wave that eventually resulted in what is the modern North and South America. everyone other than the natives benefited from this. If you live in America today, and are not native american, you benefited from his crimes.
So yay Columbus? :confusedshrug:

[MavsSuperFan]

So yay Columbus? :confusedshrug:
Overall I know my life today would probably be worse if he had not committed his atrocities.

Its true for all americans in both south and north america other than aboriginal peoples.
There are very few people who impacted human history as much as him.

I wouldnt say "yay columbus", but lets not pretend he was insignificant, or that non-native americans dont owe him a lot.
Without the atrocities and genocide that stole this land from the natives, I and most white americans (actually anyone with white american DNA, including president obama) would not have ever been born.

All of the immigrants that immigrated to america probably wouldnt have done so either.

[tpols]

Overall I know my life today would probably be worse if he had not committed his atrocities.

Its true for all americans in both south and north america other than aboriginal peoples.
There are very few people who impacted human history as much as him.

I wouldnt say "yay columbus", but lets not pretend he was insignificant, or that non-native americans dont owe him a lot.
Without the atrocities and genocide that stole this land from the natives, I and most white americans (actually anyone with white american DNA, including president obama) would not be alive.

All of the immigrants that immigrated to america probably wouldnt have done so either.
Columbus wasnt the first white man to step foot in America. Many had before and after him.. if he hadnt done it, someone else would have. Ships and navy technology was on the rise.. if it wasnt columbus another navigator or army would have come along and done the same thing. Either way we wouldve been here.

[MavsSuperFan]

Columbus wasnt the first white man to step foot in America. Many had before and after him.. if he hadnt done it, someone else would have. Ships and navy technology was on the rise.. if it wasnt columbus another navigator or army would have come along and done the same thing. Either way we wouldve been here.
Maybe, but that is true for a lot of things. We still give credit for the guy that did it first. And columbus was the first to be able to commercialize the transatlantic voyage.

[Myth]

I don't agree with that at all. He did indeed argue in favour of African slave force as a replacement for Amerindian slaves, but he changed his opinion later on in his life. He regretted his former stance on the matter, and apologized for it in his work. He even wrote a short piece denouncing the mistreatment of Africans by the Portuguese and Castillian crowns.


Sure he became good later in life, but that doesn't change that he was instrumental in the push for African slave trade.

[lakers_forever]

Columbus, de las Casas and many others were people of their time, plain and simple. Catholic morals were the lens through which they saw and interpreted the world. When they first found native Africans and native Americans, they viewed them as animals devoid of a soul and incapable or reasoning, therefore they were not people and had no rights. It took a long time for the Catholic church to consider indigenous people as equals (from a spiritual point of view), and that's when religious colonialism began, but that's a different story.


That's just so wrong in so many levels.

When they (catholics?) first found native africans? What does that even mean? Europe had been exploring the african continent since the antiquity with Greeks and Romans. WTF! :lol

And, no, african men were not view as animals devoid of soul by the Catholic Church. Show me please one document that says such bs.
That is a stupid myth. How come then black saints like Maurice and Ephigenia were adored since the middle ages? In fact, there are hundreds
of black saints. They can be saints and have no souls at the same time?

The fact is the slave trade to the americas did not begin because people did not black people as human. It happened for commercial reasons, like the late black historian Eric Williams explained:

[QUOTE]Here, then, is the origin of Negro slavery. The reason was economic, not racial; it had to do not with the color of the laborer, but the cheapness of the labor.

[lakers_forever]

The full part of Professor Snowden Jr about the subject:

Color prejudice has been a major issue in the modern world. W. E. B. Du Bois called it the "problem of the twentieth century,"1 and D. B. Saddington, among others, notes that racial difficulties are at their worst when associated with differences in skin colour. Notable, therefore, is the fact that the ancient world did not make color the foucs of irrational sentiments or the basis for uncritical evaluation. The ancients did accept the institution of slavery as a fact of life; they made ethnocentric judgments of other societies; they had narcissistic canons of phsycal beauty; the egyptians distinguished between themselves, "the people", and outsiders; and the Greeks called foreign cultures barbarian. Yet nothing comparable to the virulent color prejudice of modern times existed in the ancient world. This is the view of most scholars who have examined the evidence and who have come to conclusions such as these: the ancients did not fall into the error of biological racism; black skin color was not a sign of inferiority; Greeks and Romans did not establish color as an obstacle to integration in society; an ancient society was one that, for its faults and failures, never made colour the basis for judging a man.

To some comentators, however, a few ancient texts suggests color prejudice, or at least the germ of anti-black bias. Some, for example, regard as pejorative statements in classical authors that pointo to a preference for northern or "white", rather than for southern or "dark" beauties. Such interpretations, however, do not mention that the ancients themselves recognized that the criteria for beauty varied from nation to nation, and that those in the predominantly white societies of Greece and Rome having preference fo "black" beauty did not hesitate to say so. Parenthetically, it is questionable wether individuals should be called "racist" because they accept aesthetic canons prevailing in their country.


http://books.google.com.br/books?id=KWHMc-jNzlwC&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=Yet+nothing+comparable+to+the+virulent+color+pr ejudice+of+modern+times+existed+in+the+ancient+wor ld.+This+is+the+view+of+most+scholars+who+have+exa mined+the+evidence+and+who+have+come+to+conclusion s+such+as+these:+the+ancients+did+not+fall+into+th e+error+of+biological+racism;+black+skin+color+was +not+a+sign+of+inferiority;+Greeks+and+Romans+did+ not+establish+color+as+an+obstacle+to+integration+ in+society;+an+ancient+society+was+one+that,+for+i ts+faults+and+failures,+never+made+colour+the+basi s+for+judging+a+man%22&source=bl&ots=TRDmVCCpCo&sig=sGHtISQzaaPg7-GVWhw2_27un_k&hl=pt&sa=X&ei=GhVjUaTrB5H00QGts4GIAg&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Yet%20nothing%20comparable%20to%20the%20virulent %20color%20prejudice%20of%20modern%20times%20exist ed%20in%20the%20ancient%20world.%20This%20is%20the %20view%20of%20most%20scholars%20who%20have%20exam ined%20the%20evidence%20and%20who%20have%20come%20 to%20conclusions%20such%20as%20these%3A%20the%20an cients%20did%20not%20fall%20into%20the%20error%20o f%20biological%20racism%3B%20black%20skin%20color% 20was%20not%20a%20sign%20of%20inferiority%3B%20Gre eks%20and%20Romans%20did%20not%20establish%20color %20as%20an%20obstacle%20to%20integration%20in%20so ciety%3B%20an%20ancient%20society%20was%20one%20th at%2C%20for%20its%20faults%20and%20failures%2C%20n ever%20made%20colour%20the%20basis%20for%20judging %20a%20man%22&f=false

[MavsSuperFan]

Whatever.

Give credit where it is due. Based on recent genetic findings, the polynesian explorers (who originated from asia), were the first explorers of the pacific. It goes to reason since they were so close to the Americas, and not to mention native americans have asian phenotypes (meaning they look like asians but a bit darker due to environment), the first Americans were indeed asians themselves.

Do you truly believe Native Americans came out of thin air with absolutely no ties to any other race on this planet? GTFO.
no... as I clearly stated they crossed the bering strait back when the ice connected what we now know as russia and alaska about 30,000 years ago. They came overland, not across the pacific. The polynesian explorers did not come close to south america and were a much more recent people.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d7/Journal.pone.0001596.g004.png/250px-Journal.pone.0001596.g004.png

all humans originated in what is now known as africa. Polynesian explorers never got close to south america.

[lakers_forever]

Sure he became good later in life, but that doesn't change that he was instrumental in the push for African slave trade.

He wasn't instrumental in anything, dude. Slavery was something normal back then (even among africans themselves). And the slave trade would have hapenned anyway.

Just stupid anacronism to judge people of centuries and centuries ago with today's moral values. Ok, almost everyone was homophobic not so long ago. I guess they were all horrible people as well.

[Lebowsky]

That's just so wrong in so many levels.

When they (catholics?) first found native africans? What does that even mean? Europe had been exploring the african continent since the antiquity with Greeks and Romans. WTF! :lol


I worded it wrongly. What I should've said is when early European empires, such as the Portuguese and the Spanish, came in contact with African and American natives.


And, no, african men were not view as animals devoid of soul by the Catholic Church. Show me please one document that says such bs.
That is a stupid myth. How come then black saints like Maurice and Ephigenia were adored since the middle ages? In fact, there are hundreds
of black saints. They can be saints and have no souls at the same time?


The papal bull Dum Diversas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dum_Diversas) :


"We grant you [Kings of Spain and Portugal] by these present documents, with our Apostolic Authority, full and free permission to invade, search out, capture, and subjugate the Saracens and pagans and any other unbelievers and enemies of Christ wherever they may be, as well as their kingdoms, duchies, counties, principalities, and other property [...] and to reduce their persons into perpetual slavery.

I never said slavery had anything to do with skin color, you're the only one arguing that. I said religion was used as a justification to subdue and enslave people in Africa and America. Furthermore, the Valladolid debate had to take place to settle down the matter of whether or not it was ok to enslave American indians and force them to convert.

It's pretty obvious to everyone that the driving one behind slavery was an economic one, but it's also quite clear that it was justified and sanctioned by the Catholic Church.

[lakers_forever]

I never said slavery had anything to do with skin color, you're the only one arguing that. I said religion was used as a justification to subdue and enslave people in Africa and America. Furthermore, the Valladolid debate had to take place to settle down the matter of whether or not it was ok to enslave American indians and force them to convert.

It's pretty obvious to everyone that the driving one behind slavery was an economic one, but it's also quite clear that it was justified and sanctioned by the Catholic Church.

No, no. You said the Catholic Morals made people see black men as animals devoid of soul. Which is completely false. Can you back that up?

That Papal bull has nothing to do with african or native americans slavery and it does not state that anyone was not human (had no soul). It was from the 15th century, before the slave trade in the americas even started and because of the saracens attack and enslavery of christians; all based in the JUST War Theory of the Church.

In the middle 16th century, the Papa Bull Sublimus Dei was promulgated and condemned all the "unjust" slavery of indigenous people and ALL OTHER PEOPLE.

It was justified and sanctioned by everyone (a normal thing done against conquered people). But not because people initally thougt black people had no souls, which was the premisse of your post.

[Myth]

He wasn't instrumental in anything, dude. Slavery was something normal back then (even among africans themselves). And the slave trade would have hapenned anyway.


Just a quick search:

His call for an end to the encomienda system aroused implacable opposition. His proposed and quickly regretted solution, the importation of slaves from Africa, was adopted, but the servitude of the Indians had already been irreversibly established.


http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/330804/Bartolome-de-Las-Casas

Yes, it again says he regretted it, but he did propose it and was adopted. Did he invent slavery against the blacks? No. But that is not something I feel should be overlooked.

[OldSkoolball#52]

No, no. You said the Catholic Morals made people see black men as animals devoid of soul. Which is completely false. Can you back that up?
.


He is saying that is how they justified doing it once they'd already began doing it.

You are interpreting his statement as a declaration that they proactively went and enslaved Africans BECAUSE of their views about them. He is agreeng that they began enslaving people for economic reasons, even without prior prejudce, and THEN began to justify it with views on nature and humanity.


At least thats how I read it.