ESPN has the Knicks winning only 37 games

[Jameerthefear]

2013-2014 Outlook: Yes, the Brooklyn Nets may have compromised their future by unloading all their available picks to acquire Garnett, Pierce and Jason Terry, but at least the Nets filled glaring needs. You can't say the same at all for the Knicks in the Bargnani deal. SCHOENE projects Bargnani's value to be barely above replacement level next season, which means his on-court contributions should be no better than the 10th man on the bench. However, given how much the Knicks gave up for Bargnani, it's likely he'll be more like the team's seventh man, moving Anthony to the 3, where he's less effective.
Ultimately, the Knicks needed to make big gains on the defensive end, but they did little to address that weakness. The Knicks finished tied for 16th last season on defense and it's not clear how they plan to improve that ranking next season. With the addition of the defenseless Bargnani, SCHOENE sees the Knicks falling to 18th on that end of the floor.
And holy regression to the mean does SCHOENE think the Knicks offense last season was a fluke. With Bargnani in the fold, the Knicks are slated to plummet from third to 20th in offensive rating. Yes, 20th.
PELTON'S 2013-14 PROJECTIONS Projected Offensive Rating: 107.2 (20th) Projected Defensive Rating: 108.4 (18th) Effective (weighted) age: 30.4 (5th)
Surprised? Don't be.
For one, the Knicks are losing two elite 3-point shooters in Novak and Copeland, and replacing them with Bargnani and World Peace, who are barely average in that category. SCHOENE envisions a much more congested Knicks offense that struggles to integrate Stoudemire and Bargnani. Along those lines, the spacious Knicks were the least turnover-prone team in the league last season, but SCHOENE expects them to cough up the ball at a league-average rate next season as Udrih and Prigioni creep later into their 30s.
Even if you think the Knicks treaded water with their moves in a vacuum, the real world doesn't work that way. There are only so many wins to go around with the Bulls, Nets, Pacers, Pistons and Cavaliers expected to make big strides next season.
So where does that leave the Knicks? At 37-45, SCHOENE says. Yikes. Still, that should be good for a seventh seed in the top-heavy Eastern Conference, but hardly the encore that Knicks fans were hoping for.
Which brings us to Felton's take this offseason when he found out that ESPN Forecast picked the Knicks to finish fifth in the East next year, which, mind you, is rosier than SCHOENE's projection.
"I'm like,'How can y'all even say this?'" Felton told ESPNNewYork.com.
But a funny thing happened after his incredulous question. Felton ran through what the rest of the Eastern Conference did this offseason and then came to the conclusion that the competition will be much stiffer next season.
"It's like everybody's getting better, man," Felton said. "You can't come in and be like, 'This is a for sure win.'"
As the saying goes, if you're not getting better, you're getting worse. That saying rings particularly true for the Knicks ahead of their 2013-14 season.
SCHOENE Projection: 37-45, 2nd in Atlantic, 7th in Eastern Conference
:biggums: :hammerhead:

[Inferno]

:roll: :roll:

[It's A VC3!!!]

That's insane. 7th in the East. Much better than 12th, like I projected them to be. Man, ESPN always messing up their projections.:lol


On a serious note, my prediction is mid to high 40s. Best case, matching the win total of last year.

[Jameerthefear]

That's insane. 7th in the East. Much better than 12th, like I projected them to be. Man, ESPN always messing up their projections.:lol


On a serious note, my prediction is mid to high 40s. Best case, matching the win total of last year.
Come on man. Keep the trash talk for when the Nets prove themselves alright :cheers:

[Doranku]

That has to be a typo. Many teams in the East have improved, and they think the 7th seed will be 8 games under .500?

They must have meant 45-37.

EDIT: Nevermind, just read the article. Damn. :lol

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

:oldlol:

[Jameerthefear]

That has to be a typo. Many teams in the East have improved, and they think the 7th seed will be 8 games under .500?

They must have meant 45-37.

EDIT: Nevermind, just read the article. Damn. :lol
Nah it's right. they said the Knicks could win 37-45 games.

[Legends66NBA7]

Yeah, this doesn't make much sense. Who do they have over them ?

I can see them putting the Cavs and Pistons over, but that's really due to potential and youth.

Does anyone know the order of the rest of the ESPN rankings ? Curious to see how much more wrong this could be.

[kNicKz]

link?

[Legends66NBA7]

link?

It's an insider post.

If you got insider, you can check the link out at espn's site, but if your not subscribed you can't check it.

[Meticode]

It's feasible to me for them to win 37 games. I'm not outraged by it.

[kNicKz]

When the article calls copeland an "elite 3 point shooter ", I tend to get curious

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Droid101]

When the article calls copeland an "elite 3 point shooter ", I tend to get curious

:roll: :roll: :roll:
Well, they lost their two best three point shooters, Novak and Copeland.

And since their entire offense was "live by the three, die by the three" it doesn't seem that far fetched that they'll get worse.

:confusedshrug:

[kNicKz]

Well, they lost their two best three point shooters, Novak and Copeland.

And since their entire offense was "live by the three, die by the three" it doesn't seem that far fetched that they'll get worse.

:confusedshrug:

Copeland was not one of our better 3 point shooters though...

Not really interested in talking percentages when he put up 4PPG in the post season.

It'd be nice if people who actually watch basketball wrote these

edit: or posted here for that matter

[bluechox2]

its no secret that espn hates the knicks

[Droid101]

its no secret that espn hates the knicks
And why would you think this? One of the NBA's biggest markets and hugest draws of hits on their site (see their entire "New York" section).

Yeah, they totally hate the Knicks. :oldlol:

[kNicKz]

And why would you think this? One of the NBA's biggest markets and hugest draws of hits on their site (see their entire "New York" section).

Yeah, they totally hate the Knicks. :oldlol:

You called copeland one of our best shooters, you clearly don't watch Knicks basketball...why are you speaking on games you don't watch?

Copeland hits open threes when hes put in 30 pt blowouts against the Wizards

[CelticBaller]

You called copeland one of our best shooters, you clearly don't watch Knicks basketball...why are you speaking on games you don't watch?

Copeland hits open threes when hes put in 30 pt blowouts against the Wizards
And how does that equate to them hating the knicks?


Like Droid said, why the fvck would ESPN hate one of the NBA's biggest market aka their fvcking paycheck?

[Sarcastic]

And how does that equate to them hating the knicks?


Like Droid said, why the fvck would ESPN hate one of the NBA's biggest market aka their fvcking paycheck?


They like NY for the ratings, but they always write stupid shit like this to push buttons and peak interest.

[longtime lurker]

Another reason that ESPN is a joke. The Knicks will win 50 games and could be a top 4 seed.

[kNicKz]

And how does that equate to them hating the knicks?


Like Droid said, why the fvck would ESPN hate one of the NBA's biggest market aka their fvcking paycheck?

I said nothing about ESPN...I asked for a link of the article...never said ESPN hates the Knicks...I believe that was bluechox2

woah guy

[G-train]

Thread title is incorrect, ESPN are saying 37-45.

[bdreason]

People actually pay to read these articles? :roll:

[OldSkoolball#52]

It'd be nice if people who actually watch basketball wrote these


or posted here for that matter




Did you know your avatar says "Carmelo = MVP" ?

[imdaman99]

i guess losing elite superstars such as novak and copeland will do that to ya :roll:

good thing i cut cable, i used to have sportscenter on all night. listening to shit over and over in the background.

[Eric Cartman]

i guess losing elite superstars such as novak and copeland will do that to ya :roll:

good thing i cut cable, i used to have sportscenter on all night. listening to shit over and over in the background.

Just watch the games and make your own analysis of it.

We big boys now.

[305Baller]

Looks about right :lol

[TheMarkMadsen]

That article was a joke.

What did they do to improve their defense? Well lets see, another off season under a good defensive coach with much of the same roster that was good enough to place 2nd in the East with multiple injuries to key players. More time together creates more chemistry, more trust on defense. Not to mention they added World Peace who in short spurts can still play elite defense, and short spurts is exactly what he'll be getting next year. Shumpert who was a tremendous defender as a rookie is only going to get better now in his 3rd year. Martin is still a good defensive presence, Chandler is an elite defensive big.

Most of the other stuff is just pure Bargani hate, adding a player who theoretically complements this team tremendously is going to drop them 5 spots in the standings? Give me a break. Steve Novak is gone, so what? He was a liability on defense and couldn't put the ball on the floor, World Peace is an upgrade at that position. They act like Melo is a power forward forced into playing small forward when really it's the other way around. Yeah, offensively creates mis matches and spreads the floor offensively at the 4 however is a liability guarding 4's. Bargani can still spread the floor and isn't much worse than Melo defensively. Melos a natural 3, guards them well enough and will benefit from Bargani and the spacing he creates.

Also, this teams has crazy versatilility, Shump can guard 3 positions, Melo can effectively play the 4, World Peace could possibly see time at the 4, Hardaway Jr (who may not play much) is a good looking prospect with combo guard potential. Martin can play either both center and the 4. They also upgraded from dinasour Kidd at the backup point guard spot.

Knicks wil be good, my only concern is that they are thin at center.

[kNicKz]

That article was a joke.

What did they do to improve their defense? Well lets see, another off season under a good defensive coach with much of the same roster that was good enough to place 2nd in the East with multiple injuries to key players. More time together creates more chemistry, more trust on defense. Not to mention they added World Peace who in short spurts can still play elite defense, and short spurts is exactly what he'll be getting next year. Shumpert who was a tremendous defender as a rookie is only going to get better now in his 3rd year. Martin is still a good defensive presence, Chandler is an elite defensive big.

Most of the other stuff is just pure Bargani hate, adding a player who theoretically complements this team tremendously is going to drop them 5 spots in the standings? Give me a break. Steve Novak is gone, so what? He was a liability on defense and couldn't put the ball on the floor, World Peace is an upgrade at that position. They act like Melo is a power forward forced into playing small forward when really it's the other way around. Yeah, offensively creates mis matches and spreads the floor offensively at the 4 however is a liability guarding 4's. Bargani can still spread the floor and isn't much worse than Melo defensively. Melos a natural 3, guards them well enough and will benefit from Bargani and the spacing he creates.

Also, this teams has crazy versatilility, Shump can guard 3 positions, Melo can effectively play the 4, World Peace could possibly see time at the 4, Hardaway Jr (who may not play much) is a good looking prospect with combo guard potential. Martin can play either both center and the 4. They also upgraded from dinasour Kidd at the backup point guard spot.

Knicks wil be good, my only concern is that they are thin at center.

It's so obvious when someone who watches the Knicks play makes a post :applause:

These dudes called Copeland an elite 3 pt shooter :roll:

[knickballer]

Who cares what ESPN thinks?

[Heavincent]

It's funny because those ESPN insider articles are always junk. Can't believe anyone pays for that shit.

[icewill36]

knicks should finish 4th or 5th in the east, so i think 45-50 is more likely

[Trentknicks]

Well, they lost their two best three point shooters, Novak and Copeland.

And since their entire offense was "live by the three, die by the three" it doesn't seem that far fetched that they'll get worse.

:confusedshrug:
http://i.qkme.me/365ad3.jpg

[Nastradamus]

40-44 I'd say. They did lose valuable 3 point shooting, they added Bargnani(a negative)and Smith just had knee surgery. I think they'll miss Kidd's leadership too. Artest was a good add and Udrih is a solid backup point. SHumpert needs to step his game up, or Hardaway needs to be ready fast.

[Trentknicks]

40-44 I'd say. They did lose valuable 3 point shooting, they added Bargnani(a negative)and Smith just had knee surgery. I think they'll miss Kidd's leadership too. Artest was a good add and Udrih is a solid backup point. SHumpert needs to step his game up, or Hardaway needs to be ready fast.
Totally agree, however I'd say it closer to 36 wins based on the fact that Amare will be needed to play 49 minutes a game at point guard and it's painfully obvious that Tim Hardaway JR does not rebound well enough for an undersized center. Additionally, Prigioni at 36 will probably have a heart attack on court mid season and the Knicks will have to play with 4 players for the rest of the season.

[christian1923]

Only 37 wins when half the league is tanking?:roll:

58 wins is more like it.

Copeland and Novak were non factors in games that matter. Knicks won all those games because they played solid D, never turned the ball over, made threes. And cause melo is a monster lol those things are all going to be there again.

ESPN is hating tough for that article. It should be illegal to publish that.

[DaSeba5]

its no secret that espn hates the knicks

What? Any NY team draws huge ratings and that is why they talk about NY teams more than anyone else. If anything, they love the Knicks because they bring in the money. Especially when they suck or do something that will draw a story.

As for their prediction, fvck ESPN. Who cares about their sensationalist BS? They are just looking for ratings.

[Bosnian Sajo]

gtfo :oldlol:

If Knicks are not one of the top 4 seeds, Ill be surprised.

[LA Lakers]

how big of an impact is Artest going to have this year? The East is a lot more dangerous than it has been the last 5 or 6 seasons.

[rhowen4]

i understand 5th seed but 37 games? wtf

[Nero Tulip]

With 75% of the Eastern conference tanking, they should win more.

But make no mistake, the Knicks suck.

[fpliii]

gtfo :oldlol:

If Knicks are not one of the top 4 seeds, Ill be surprised.

Really? Not that they couldn't be a top 4 seed, but it would surprise you if they aren't?

[niko]

Well, they lost their two best three point shooters, Novak and Copeland.

And since their entire offense was "live by the three, die by the three" it doesn't seem that far fetched that they'll get worse.

:confusedshrug:
Our offense wasn't built around Novak and Copeland. Novak regressed so much and Copeland scored 4ppg and often didn't even play. Essentially this article is saying the Knicks lost their 8th and 9th guys are replaced them with different guys and lost 17 wins. :facepalm

[Harison]

ESPN is trolling Knicks :lol

[chips93]

espn deserve more credit than you guys give them

last year people laughed when they predicted the nuggets to win 59 games, they ended up winning 57

[miles berg]

I would not be shocked at all if this year the Knicks crumble apart and trade rumors begin swirling for guys like Chandler and possibly even Melo.

I just don't see what is going to tie this group together with Kidd not there to mentor them like last year.

[HurricaneKid]

When the article calls copeland an "elite 3 point shooter ", I tend to get curious

:roll: :roll: :roll:

4 posts by Knicks fans saying Copeland wasn't an elite 3pt shooter.

::goes to Basketball Reference::

Imagine that, SCHOENE, an intensely analytical modeling system >>> Knicks fans. Copeland shot .421 for the season from 3 (Novak at .425).'

Melo, JR, and Kidd made more but shot .379, .356, and .351 respectvely. So yeah, losing your two best shooters hurts a 3 point shooting team.

[el gringos]

4 posts by Knicks fans saying Copeland wasn't an elite 3pt shooter.

::goes to Basketball Reference::

Imagine that, SCHOENE, an intensely analytical modeling system >>> Knicks fans. Copeland shot .421 for the season from 3 (Novak at .425).'

Melo, JR, and Kidd made more but shot .379, .356, and .351 respectvely. So yeah, losing your two best shooters hurts a 3 point shooting team.
Prob no point in arguing w people who see numbers and don't take into account situations.

Players shooting uncontested catch and shoot 3's should have a higher percentage of makes than a player creating his own looks or taking contested shots.

[kNicKz]

Prob no point in arguing w people who see numbers and don't take into account situations.

Players shooting uncontested catch and shoot 3's should have a higher percentage of makes than a player creating his own looks or taking contested shots.

This. Copeland plays when the knicks are up 15 and playing against the B - unit. Like I said before, I'm not willing to discuss basketball with people who don't watch basketball

[gts]

ESPN's web services have become huge blogholes sucking the air from the room. They're just pumping out stuff now to generate hits on their website with no regard to reality.

There's still some good local beat writers but the National level stuff once you get past the big name guys have taken a huge step back the last couple years with their push to supply more and more content

[niko]

4 posts by Knicks fans saying Copeland wasn't an elite 3pt shooter.

::goes to Basketball Reference::

Imagine that, SCHOENE, an intensely analytical modeling system >>> Knicks fans. Copeland shot .421 for the season from 3 (Novak at .425).'

Melo, JR, and Kidd made more but shot .379, .356, and .351 respectvely. So yeah, losing your two best shooters hurts a 3 point shooting team.
He wasn't a regular rotation person, he was a person who came in and played 4 minutes here, 4 minutes there, when the game was not in reach. essentially you don't watch basketball because you are comparing players asked to do a lot vs. a player asked to do nothing but shoot uncontested shots, and who does it very seldomly.

You're basically doing the same analysis the computer is doing, looking at the numbers and giving no thought to anything else.

[Bigsmoke]

They would win that much if Melo takes the season off:confusedshrug:

[chazzy]

Thread title is incorrect, ESPN are saying 37-45.
37 wins, 45 losses

[It's A VC3!!!]

He wasn't a regular rotation person, he was a person who came in and played 4 minutes here, 4 minutes there, when the game was not in reach. essentially you don't watch basketball because you are comparing players asked to do a lot vs. a player asked to do nothing but shoot uncontested shots, and who does it very seldomly.

You're basically doing the same analysis the computer is doing, looking at the numbers and giving no thought to anything else.
I sent you a message niko but dispose of my request. I already have three people ( RL friends) helping me with that.

[niko]

I sent you a message niko but dispose of my request. I already have three people ( RL friends) helping me with that.
Not a problem...

[HurricaneKid]

He wasn't a regular rotation person, he was a person who came in and played 4 minutes here, 4 minutes there, when the game was not in reach. essentially you don't watch basketball because you are comparing players asked to do a lot vs. a player asked to do nothing but shoot uncontested shots, and who does it very seldomly.

You're basically doing the same analysis the computer is doing, looking at the numbers and giving no thought to anything else.

I agree. He never really had a specific role. He had a lot of DNPs and then when an injury came up he would play a lot. But he also started 13 games and played HEAVY minutes during some stretches. For instance, he avg >30 min over the last 8 games of the season.

And lets not suggest he didn't shoot a lot of 3s. Per 36 min Melo shot 6.0, JR shot 5.9 and Copeland shot 5.8.

He played 862 min. For comparison, Shump played 996 and Amare played 682.

And you are taking away 2500 minutes between Novak and Copeland and, more importantly, replacing ~500 3 pt attempts from shooters at .423 and replacing those shots with shots from Bargs (shot .303) and Metta (.342). Ballpark, thats 500 shots going from .42 to .32. That 10% is equal to .3 points/shot. 500 X .3 = 150 points / 82 is almost 2 points a game. It also allows defenses to sag off shooters a little more and help on Melo, who was more effective than he has ever been in large part because of the spacing.

I watch WAY too much basketball. The difference is that I get the mathematical impact of losing really good shooters and you don't. I don't think they will drop to 37 wins but it is a significant problem for the Knicks.

[Blue&Orange]

4 posts by Knicks fans saying Copeland wasn't an elite 3pt shooter.

::goes to Basketball Reference::

Imagine that, SCHOENE, an intensely analytical modeling system >>> Knicks fans. Copeland shot .421 for the season from 3 (Novak at .425).'

Melo, JR, and Kidd made more but shot .379, .356, and .351 respectvely. So yeah, losing your two best shooters hurts a 3 point shooting team.
This retard needs to go to espn, he doesn't know what's the difference between shooting 3's with game on the line against better opposition or in a blowout win against the other team bench. Outside of blowouts Novak was shooting like 5% 3pt's, saying that Knicks will miss Novak is laughable, dude was an absolute ZERO when needed on offense, defense i won't bother even talking about. Copeland is a much better player, but same situation.

::goes to basketball reference:: :lol :roll:

How about watching games f@got


I don't think they will drop to 37 wins but it is a significant problem for the Knicks.
:lol :roll: :oldlol:

Knicks have a much, much better team this year.

[Droid101]

I agree. He never really had a specific role. He had a lot of DNPs and then when an injury came up he would play a lot. But he also started 13 games and played HEAVY minutes during some stretches. For instance, he avg >30 min over the last 8 games of the season.

And lets not suggest he didn't shoot a lot of 3s. Per 36 min Melo shot 6.0, JR shot 5.9 and Copeland shot 5.8.

He played 862 min. For comparison, Shump played 996 and Amare played 682.

And you are taking away 2500 minutes between Novak and Copeland and, more importantly, replacing ~500 3 pt attempts from shooters at .423 and replacing those shots with shots from Bargs (shot .303) and Metta (.342). Ballpark, thats 500 shots going from .42 to .32. That 10% is equal to .3 points/shot. 500 X .3 = 150 points / 82 is almost 2 points a game. It also allows defenses to sag off shooters a little more and help on Melo, who was more effective than he has ever been in large part because of the spacing.

I watch WAY too much basketball. The difference is that I get the mathematical impact of losing really good shooters and you don't. I don't think they will drop to 37 wins but it is a significant problem for the Knicks.
:applause:

[niko]

I agree. He never really had a specific role. He had a lot of DNPs and then when an injury came up he would play a lot. But he also started 13 games and played HEAVY minutes during some stretches. For instance, he avg >30 min over the last 8 games of the season.

And lets not suggest he didn't shoot a lot of 3s. Per 36 min Melo shot 6.0, JR shot 5.9 and Copeland shot 5.8.

He played 862 min. For comparison, Shump played 996 and Amare played 682.

And you are taking away 2500 minutes between Novak and Copeland and, more importantly, replacing ~500 3 pt attempts from shooters at .423 and replacing those shots with shots from Bargs (shot .303) and Metta (.342). Ballpark, thats 500 shots going from .42 to .32. That 10% is equal to .3 points/shot. 500 X .3 = 150 points / 82 is almost 2 points a game. It also allows defenses to sag off shooters a little more and help on Melo, who was more effective than he has ever been in large part because of the spacing.

I watch WAY too much basketball. The difference is that I get the mathematical impact of losing really good shooters and you don't. I don't think they will drop to 37 wins but it is a significant problem for the Knicks.

You don't watch enough if you think the Knicks success or failure hinges on Novak and Copeland. They are both absolutely horrendous defensive players who force you to practically play 4 on 5. Novak just can't move and Copeland is just in space from time to time. Whatever we lose in spacing we gain in defense, rebounding, and just playing smarter.

The Knicks are not going from 54 wins to 37 wins replacing Novak/Copeland with Bargs/Pierce/Hardaway (who is a very good three points shooter btw). And note Shump played so few minutes because he missed a good portion of the season.

Statistical analysis has to be used in conjunction with watching the team play, not in a vacuum. If the Knicks have less three point shooting guess what? We need to shoot less three pointers.

Note: I liked Copeland but did people actually watch him play? He's the guy responsible for the person running free down for a layup, or the person standing by the three point line uncontested more often than not.

Also note the model was horrific in a lot of its predictions and the reasons behind them. It overvalues each player (Player 8/9 are not equal to 1 to 3) and it assumes similar styles, shooting, etc. Miami went down 12 games, nets got not better, etc. It's just inane.

[crunk-juice]

:lol :roll: :oldlol:

Knicks have a much, much better team this year.


cmon. you can say 37 wins is ludicrous (which is true). But your statement isnt much better.

[It's A VC3!!!]

I didn't think this thread would gain this much attention. I find it comical how some people here agree with ESPN's prediction of the Knicks winning only 37 games. That's blasphemous. Anything more than 20 is unattainable for the Knicks.:lol

Just Kidding. However, I think the Knicks will face a huge problem if JR can't come back and give the Knicks a consistent second option. They are a 43-54 win team and a fifth seed in the east. I don't know what ESPN is thinking though. The Knicks obtained M. Peace, A. Bargnani and B. Udrih and they are going to win 17 less games than the year prior? I hope so, but I don't think so.

Anyways, ESPN does hate the Knicks. They are the only team that has an outdated depth chart.

[chips93]

i didnt read the article, (i might get around to it later) but id assume the conventional wisdom is that the knicks wont shoot the lights out from 3 again, as they did to start the year

werent they on pace to set records for 3pt shooting? thats unlikely to repeat itself

[TheMarkMadsen]

I'm astounded.

Apparently there has never been a more important 7ppg on 41% role player such as Steve Novak.

The same Steve Novak that played 5 minutes per game in the playoffs..

And then there's Chris Copeland.. How will the Knicks replace his 10 minutes per game in the playoffs? How will they make up that 4ppg on 40% come playoff time?

[Nastradamus]

We aren't talking about them in the playoffs, we are talking about their regular season win total. Novak and Copeland combined for 35 mpg and were worth 6 win shares combined on the year. 3 point shooting and the space it created was a big part of the Knicks' success last year.

[Fresh Kid]

ESPN iz on some asylum shit, dem niguhz are too krazy and too stupid :facepalm like come on now, 37 damn gamez???:biggums: even tha haterz cant agree wit dis shit,im severly disappointed.:facepalm

[Trentknicks]

i didnt read the article, (i might get around to it later) but id assume the conventional wisdom is that the knicks wont shoot the lights out from 3 again, as they did to start the year

werent they on pace to set records for 3pt shooting? thats unlikely to repeat itself
The 3PT shooting was generally out of necessity especially when Felton and STAT where down and the Knicks had no penetration. Udrih will prove huge here and Bargs creates another dimension to the offense.

[Trentknicks]

We aren't talking about them in the playoffs, we are talking about their regular season win total. Novak and Copeland combined for 35 mpg and were worth 6 win shares combined on the year. 3 point shooting and the space it created was a big part of the Knicks' success last year.
I mean, Melo, JR Shump, Felton, Prigioni, Udrih, MWP, Hardaway JR and even Bargs are all such horrible shooters and there's no way they will make a single 3 this year.

[EnoughSaid]

Here's how the East will stack up.

Miami 60+ wins
Chicago, Indiana and Brooklyn 50+ wins
Knicks, Cavs and Pistons 40+ wins
Bucks 35+ wins

I see Knicks around 45-47 wins, which should be a 5th seed.

[Trentknicks]

Here's how the East will stack up.

Miami 60+ wins
Chicago, Indiana and Brooklyn 50+ wins
Knicks, Cavs and Pistons 40+ wins
Bucks 35+ wins

I see Knicks around 45-47 wins, which should be a 5th seed.
Adding MWP, Bargs, Udrih, THJR + a full season of Shumpert/K Mart and we lose 7-9 more game? Seems legit. This is no expecting a single thing from Amare Stoudemire.

[Fresh Kid]

Here's how the East will stack up.

Miami 60+ wins
Chicago, Indiana and Brooklyn 50+ wins
Knicks, Cavs and Pistons 40+ wins
Bucks 35+ wins

I see Knicks around 45-47 wins, which should be a 5th seed.
u are really delusional and stupid man, u got lebron's shaft so far up your ass that makes u so damn dumb and so damn blind, dont you ever put us in tha same boat with dem weak ass niguhs named tha cavs and pistons, thats why we bust that ass last season and we were unhealthy on top of that:biggums:

[Fresh Kid]

Adding MWP, Bargs, Udrih, THJR + a full season of Shumpert/K Mart and we lose 7-9 more game? Seems legit. This is no expecting a single thing from Amare Stoudemire.
he a straight up hater man:coleman:

[TheMarkMadsen]

We aren't talking about them in the playoffs, we are talking about their regular season win total. Novak and Copeland combined for 35 mpg and were worth 6 win shares combined on the year. 3 point shooting and the space it created was a big part of the Knicks' success last year.

Do you realize that Ronnie Brewer started more games for the Knicks last year than Copeland & Novak COMBINED..

Copeland only played in 56 games..

Novak played 20mpg last year and is being replaced by a better player in World Peace who had a higher WS last season.

Novak & Copeland were not intergal parts of the Knicks, as seen by the coach deciding to not play them in the playoffs

[EnoughSaid]

Adding MWP, Bargs, Udrih, THJR + a full season of Shumpert/K Mart and we lose 7-9 more game? Seems legit. This is no expecting a single thing from Amare Stoudemire.

Everyone else got better too don't forget about that. Are we seriously about to sit here and say the Knicks are good enough to win 50+ games?

[Trentknicks]

Everyone else got better too don't forget about that. Are we seriously about to sit here and say the Knicks are good enough to win 50+ games?
Last year against the East 'elite'

3-1 VS Miami
2-2 VS Nets
2-2 VS Pacers
0-4 VS Bulls

Chances are the don't beat Miami 3 times but they are certainly winning at least a game against Chicago.

If 'everyone else' is getting better, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume all teams atop the east will drop a few games too?

[jimmy77x]

Everyone else got better too don't forget about that. Are we seriously about to sit here and say the Knicks are good enough to win 50+ games?

Did anyone think they were good enough to win 50+ last year, most haters like yourself claimed they would be fighting for a 7-8 seed? How about we let things play out a little before you proclaim bulls,pacers,nets as being better, especially the nets adding multiple fossils to their team. Enough with the good on paper bullshit, the nets will be better when they actually prove it.

[Fresh Kid]

Everyone else got better too don't forget about that. Are we seriously about to sit here and say the Knicks are good enough to win 50+ games?
we won 50 plus last year while being unhealthy, try again:rolleyes:

[Droid101]

Last year against the East 'elite'

3-1 VS Miami
2-2 VS Nets
2-2 VS Pacers
0-4 VS Bulls

Chances are the don't beat Miami 3 times but they are certainly winning at least a game against Chicago.

If 'everyone else' is getting better, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume all teams atop the east will drop a few games too?
So... Chicago gets its MVP back and "they are certainly winning" against them?

You are a fool.

[Fresh Kid]

So... Chicago gets its MVP back and "they are certainly winning" against them?

You are a fool.
but derrick rose might not be tha same plus nate robinson got traded:no:

[Droid101]

but derrick rose might not be tha same plus nate robinson got traded:no:
So, this is a thread where Nate Robinson is as good as or better than Derrick Rose.

Okay.

[longtime lurker]

Everyone else got better too don't forget about that. Are we seriously about to sit here and say the Knicks are good enough to win 50+ games?

Huh? The only teams that get better are the Bulls and Nets. Otherwise everyone else got worse. Atlanta got worse, Bucks got worse, Celtics are ridiculously terrible. The East is going to be complete garbage as usual. More than half the conference will be tanking. Knicks won 50+ games with JR Smith as the 2nd option, poor health and Amare as a complete non factor.

[EnoughSaid]

we won 50 plus last year while being unhealthy, try again:rolleyes:

So after a summer where the Heat, Pacers, Bulls, Nets, Cavs, Wizards and Pistons, not to mention the West, all got better, you expect the Knicks to still win 50? Don't forget that a lot of their wins came early during that insane 3 point shooting spell. I can almost certainly guarantee you that something like that won't happen this season. A team doesn't shoot 50% from 3 for like 10 games. Doesn't happen.

[jimmy77x]

So after a summer where the Heat, Pacers, Bulls, Nets, Cavs, Wizards and Pistons, not to mention the West, all got better, you expect the Knicks to still win 50? Don't forget that a lot of their wins came early during that insane 3 point shooting spell. I can almost certainly guarantee you that something like that won't happen this season. A team doesn't shoot 50% from 3 for like 10 games. Doesn't happen.

Clear knicks hater with an agenda claiming every team under the sun has somehow gotten light years better except the knicks. Did the Erie Bayhawks get better than the knicks too?

[EnoughSaid]

Clear knicks hater with an agenda claiming every team under the sun has somehow gotten light years better except the knicks. Did the Erie Bayhawks get better than the knicks too?

I didn't say those teams (Cavs, Pistons, Wizards) are better than the Knicks. I just said they've improved so it's going to be more difficult to best them on a consistent basis. Lmao though you guys are amusing. Me saying the Knicks will win 47 games and a 5th seed is definitely hating. No rational thinking of any sort. :rolleyes:

[jimmy77x]

I didn't say those teams (Cavs, Pistons, Wizards) are better than the Knicks. I just said they've improved so it's going to be more difficult to best them on a consistent basis. Lmao though you guys are amusing. Me saying the Knicks will win 47 games and a 5th seed is definitely hating. No rational thinking of any sort. :rolleyes:

Has nothing to do with your prediction, you are a notorious knicks hater, hating any and everything that has to do with the knicks. Im pretty sure you were one of the clowns predicting them to be fighting for a 7-8 seed last year. :lol at you putting yourself on a pedestal :roll: :roll: "You guys are amusing" who the Fck are you? Fair-weather heat fans never cease to amaze.

[CHi1PriDe]

Is the Knicks backcourt really prigioni and Felton :facepalm and who's goin to back up chandler, bargs?! Knicks are in trouble :no:

[Trentknicks]

So after a summer where the Heat, Pacers, Bulls, Nets, Cavs, Wizards and Pistons, not to mention the West, all got better, you expect the Knicks to still win 50? Don't forget that a lot of their wins came early during that insane 3 point shooting spell. I can almost certainly guarantee you that something like that won't happen this season. A team doesn't shoot 50% from 3 for like 10 games. Doesn't happen.
And their poor performance came in the middle of the year when Chandler and Felton got injured, leaving them no depth.

With Udrih, and Cole Aldrich/Kenyon Martin for a whole season I can guarantee that won't happen again.

So it sounds like: Everyone got better, but only the Knicks are losing more games?

[Trentknicks]

Is the Knicks backcourt really prigioni and Felton :facepalm and who's goin to back up chandler, bargs?! Knicks are in trouble :no:
The Knicks back court is:
Felton/Udrih/Prigioni
Shumpert/JR/TH JR

Cole Adrich/Kenyon Martin/Jeremy Tyler will be spelling Chandler.

Keep up the good work, dumbass. :facepalm:

[EnoughSaid]

My line of reasoning is that I see the Knicks taking that 5th seed. The number of wins for a 5th seed in the East is 47-49ish. That's where I'm predicting them to be. Is that too low? :rolleyes:

[CHi1PriDe]

The Knicks back court is:
Felton/Udrih/Prigioni
Shumpert/JR/TH JR

Cole Adrich/Kenyon Martin/Jeremy Tyler will be spelling Chandler.

Keep up the good work, dumbass. :facepalm:

Damn that's solid. Knicks probably has the best scoring/defensive backcourts in the league. Rose and Butler has their work cut out for them, gonna be real tough to score on those two.

[HurricaneKid]

You don't watch enough if you think the Knicks success or failure hinges on Novak and Copeland. They are both absolutely horrendous defensive players who force you to practically play 4 on 5. Novak just can't move and Copeland is just in space from time to time. Whatever we lose in spacing we gain in defense, rebounding, and just playing smarter.

The Knicks are not going from 54 wins to 37 wins replacing Novak/Copeland with Bargs/Pierce/Hardaway (who is a very good three points shooter btw). And note Shump played so few minutes because he missed a good portion of the season.

Statistical analysis has to be used in conjunction with watching the team play, not in a vacuum. If the Knicks have less three point shooting guess what? We need to shoot less three pointers.

Note: I liked Copeland but did people actually watch him play? He's the guy responsible for the person running free down for a layup, or the person standing by the three point line uncontested more often than not.

Also note the model was horrific in a lot of its predictions and the reasons behind them. It overvalues each player (Player 8/9 are not equal to 1 to 3) and it assumes similar styles, shooting, etc. Miami went down 12 games, nets got not better, etc. It's just inane.

Did I say losing those two was going to dictate failure to the Knicks? I am just giving you an idea of how much worse their outside shooting is going to be this year. And if you don't think that was integral in helping Melo have a career year I think you are being dishonest with yourself. As for hoping a 33% 3 pt shooter in college (just a hair under over the last two years, even with the much closer line) will make up for it... No. And they were the #1 3 point shooting team in the NBA last year. It was not only their most efficient and effective ball, it opened up the lane for Melo and to some degree JR.

The real reason they are expected to drop is their age. Chandler is a 13 year vet with back issues who has missed a lot of time in his younger years. Amare is cashed. And there is some regression expected from Melo who was significantly better than he was in previous years. We'll see.

And the modeling skews by minutes played so #8 is not valued the same as #1.

[RagaZ]

ESPN :bowdown:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

ESPN might just be a top 1 basketball mind of our generation. Wow.

[T-Time3]

inb4 'melo anthony change his twitter avatar to "37"








what? that'll never happen ?
bcuz he's not kobe bean bryant ? that is so mean, you mean people out there. #haterzgonhate
okay silly me, carry on people

#KNICKSTAPE

[Jameerthefear]

Knicks need to keep losing. That pick is going to be sweet.

[T-Time3]

Knicks need to keep losing. That pick is going to be sweet.

do you even know who do they pick in the last decade jameer ?
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1841803-remembering-new-yorks-draft-picks-of-the-past-decade
:facepalm :facepalm
only decent picks are gallo,wilson chandler,frye,david lee, and shumpert.
and they are all dealt away :oldlol:
hey shumpert is on trade blocks this offseason. how could i know you ask ?
stephen a smith SAID SO :rockon:

[Jameerthefear]

do you even know who do they pick in the last decade jameer ?
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1841803-remembering-new-yorks-draft-picks-of-the-past-decade
:facepalm :facepalm
only decent picks are gallo,wilson chandler,frye,david lee, and shumpert.
and they are all dealt away :oldlol:
hey shumpert is on trade blocks this offseason. how could i know you ask ?
stephen a smith SAID SO :rockon:
their pick goes to us...

[niko]

The season didn't end six games in and the Knicks will make the playoffs. IF we were to miss, it would be just miss, high pick, not a lottery pick. Some of you are ridiculous. It's six game. You've never seen the NBA before?

BUT THE KNICKS.... it's SIX games. No but anything. The season doesn't end in six games.

[OldSkoolball#52]

The season didn't end six games in and the Knicks will make the playoffs. IF we were to miss, it would be just miss, high pick, not a lottery pick. Some of you are ridiculous. It's six game. You've never seen the NBA before?

BUT THE KNICKS.... it's SIX games. No but anything. The season doesn't end in six games.


It does for the Knicks. Theyre cooked.

[atljonesbro]

Haha the Knicks are a joke as usual. What a terrible, embarrassing organization.

[imdaman99]

It does for the Knicks. Theyre cooked.
No it doesn't. They are in trouble, but the season is not done. 76 games left :facepalm

[Fresh Kid]

im lost for words in this thread, dis iz very, very damn sad.

[atljonesbro]

No it doesn't. They are in trouble, but the season is not done. 76 games left :facepalm
Nope it's over. Pack it up. They don't even have a first round pick :roll:

Have fun with Jr Smith and Bargnani as your superstars when Melo leaves :applause:

[imdaman99]

Nope it's over. Pack it up. They don't even have a first round pick :roll:

Have fun with Jr Smith and Bargnani as your superstars when Melo leaves :applause:
I'll have fun alright. It's not like the team didn't JUST go through tough times with Marbury as their best player. Still a fan, just won't pay attention as much. OK guys, I know drafting Wiggins is over...but who's the NEXT Wiggins. As in #1 draft pick in 2015? OK I guess I have to go to the High School forum for that :lol

I'm a Knicks fan, but I don't go suicidal over sports. Have to remember, it's just a game :oldlol:

[OldSkoolball#52]

Nope it's over. Pack it up. They don't even have a first round pick :roll:

Have fun with Jr Smith and Bargnani as your superstars when Melo leaves :applause:



Knick fans should be so lucky to see Anthony bolt. Then cut Smiff and Bargnani, and do what they should have done from the beginning...




Build around Metta World Peace! :lol

[jimmy77x]

Haha everyone loves hating on the knicks for no reason besides it being the popular thing to do. Bulls and nets have the same record and no one says a word:lol

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Haha everyone loves hating on the knicks for no reason besides it being the popular thing to do. Bulls and nets have the same record and no one says a word:lol

What? Nets and Rose (taking it for the Bulls as a whole) are getting trashed as well.

[FireMcFailPlease]

The season didn't end six games in and the Knicks will make the playoffs. IF we were to miss, it would be just miss, high pick, not a lottery pick. Some of you are ridiculous. It's six game. You've never seen the NBA before?

BUT THE KNICKS.... it's SIX games. No but anything. The season doesn't end in six games.
:roll: :roll:

keep telling yourself that

[RoTM]

Nope it's over. Pack it up. They don't even have a first round pick :roll:

Have fun with Jr Smith and Bargnani as your superstars when Melo leaves :applause:


Could be worse, like paying him 5/130.

[Legends66NBA7]

Haha the Knicks are a joke as usual. What a terrible, embarrassing organization.

A Hawks fan talking shit about another NBA franchise ?

Yeah, I wouldn't go there.

[niko]

:roll: :roll:

keep telling yourself that
You should know, you probably have ok starts all the time before your whole fragile as glass roster breaks down.

[SpecialQue]

I would love for both the Knicks and Lakers at some point to be great again and meet in the finals. The hate on here would be insane.

[Dr. Ice]

A Hawks fan talking shit about another NBA franchise ?

Yeah, I wouldn't go there.
See, this is why people laugh at the knicks. We hawks fans understand our status, meanwhile for some odd reason knicks fans do not.

Knicks fan acting like their franchise is over another's? Yeah, I wouldn't go there.

[Jameerthefear]

See, this is why people laugh at the knicks. We hawks fans understand our status, meanwhile for some odd reason knicks fans do not.

Knicks fan acting like their franchise is over another's? Yeah, I wouldn't go there.
legends is a raptors fan..

[Dr. Ice]

legends is a raptors fan..
...and this is why we need our avatars back

[niko]

See, this is why people laugh at the knicks. We hawks fans understand our status, meanwhile for some odd reason knicks fans do not.

Knicks fan acting like their franchise is over another's? Yeah, I wouldn't go there.
The Hawks organization doesn't try to win. Their goal is to be so-so and mildly profitable. You take the worst year of the Knicks, the most stupid, obtuse, backwards run time and I'm STILL glad we are not the Hawks. The Hawks strive to be average so they can make a small profit. There are a few teams in the NBA who exist in order to exist, nothing more. The Knicks are not one of them.

[Legends66NBA7]

...and this is why we need our avatars back

I don't even rock a Raptors avy, should have just looked at my location if it gave a clue.

But it's true. A fan of another team, and in this case the Hawks, can't just smack talk the Knicks because of their current struggles or their history, even if it's not that special.

The Hawks have never made the ECF since moving to Atlanta. They've never made the Finals or won it since they were in St. Louis. Unless your the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Spurs, and now Heat, I wouldn't even be trashing anybody's franchise, but then again... that's just me. Nothing against Hawk fans (your actually a good poster for the Hawks, btw), but that comment was just wrong.

And in the case it's brought up (not by you), yes the Raptors suck as a franchise, but I never claimed they were amazing or anything of the sort and literally 99.999% of the fanbase will tell you that and how we've been needing change of ownership for years.

[niko]

I don't even rock a Raptors avy, should have just looked at my location if it give a clue.

But it's true. A fan of another team, and in this case the Hawks, can't just smack talk the Knicks because of their current struggles or their history, even if it's not that special.

The Hawks have never made the ECF since moving to Atlanta. They've never made the Finals or won it since they were in St. Louis. Unless your the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Spurs, and now Heat, I wouldn't even be trashing anybody's franchise, but then again... that's just me. Nothing against Hawk fans (your actually a good poster for the Hawks, btw), but that comment was just wrong.

And in the case it's brought up (not by you), yes the Raptors suck as a franchise, but I never claimed they were amazing or anything of the sort and literally 99.999% of the fanbase will tell you that and how we've been needing change of ownership for years.

And no one ever tells the Raptor, Hawk fans not to rep their team. Apparently Knicks fans are supposed to do deep internal reflection when we are not playing well and agree never to support our team, but other teams fans are allowed to just enjoy themselves. It's stupid.

[Legends66NBA7]

And no one ever tells the Raptor, Hawk fans not to rep their team. Apparently Knicks fans are supposed to do deep internal reflection when we are not playing well and agree never to support our team, but other teams fans are allowed to just enjoy themselves. It's stupid.

Well, for the Raptors, any sort of optimism is usually met with spite.

[Sarcastic]

Well, for the Raptors, any sort of optimism is usually met with spite.


Not because they are the Raptors or play in Toronto, but because they haven't gotten a superstar to play there since Vince and TMac.

Knicks get hate just for being in NY, and called the Knicks.

[niko]

Well, for the Raptors, any sort of optimism is usually met with spite.
Hate is ok. People hate the Lakers. People want the Knick fans to qualify any happy comment. If we beat Miami they want us to say "we beat Miami but we will never win a title so it's meaningless". Who is like that? Why even watch games if someone is like that?

[Legends66NBA7]

Not because they are the Raptors or play in Toronto, but because they haven't gotten a superstar to play there since Vince and TMac.

Knicks get hate just for being in NY, and called the Knicks.

I wouldn't even say it's a superstar thing. Vince Carter's is still hated by some Raptor fans. Tracy McGrady really wasn't a superstar here. Chris Bosh was more impactful in his time here in Toronto than McGrady, although he isn't considered a superstar.

I'm speaking in terms of the realm of Raptor fans that any sort of optimistic talk is frowned upon by the majority of Raptor fans, regarding this current team and it's future direction. I've looked everywhere online, it's almost always the case. Off course there are some bright spots, Jonas), but I don't know if he will ever be a superstar.

[atljonesbro]

A Hawks fan talking shit about another NBA franchise ?

Yeah, I wouldn't go there.
Hahaha the Hawks actually have a future and are a much better run organization than the Knicks. Infinitely more success over the past decade and a team with actually pieces to the puzzle but it's not complete. The knicks are constant garbage

[kurple]

Knicks need to keep losing. That pick is going to be sweet.
maybe the nuggets start winning? remember, we have first dibs between the two




right, like that's gonna happen

[imdaman99]

Hahaha the Hawks actually have a future and are a much better run organization than the Knicks. Infinitely more success over the past decade and a team with actually pieces to the puzzle but it's not complete. The knicks are constant garbage
STFU. Knicks winning 20 games a year were drawing more than the Hawks were winning 50.

[atljonesbro]

STFU. Knicks winning 20 games a year were drawing more than the Hawks were winning 50.
A franchise gift wrapped everything on a silver platter just because New York and they still seem to **** everything up. No other reason either just "New York".

[Just2McFly]

The Hawks organization doesn't try to win. Their goal is to be so-so and mildly profitable. You take the worst year of the Knicks, the most stupid, obtuse, backwards run time and I'm STILL glad we are not the Hawks. The Hawks strive to be average so they can make a small profit. There are a few teams in the NBA who exist in order to exist, nothing more. The Knicks are not one of them.
Don't kill me:roll: :roll: :roll:

Were the Knicks trying to win in the mid 2000's?

[chosen_wun]

ESPN overrating the Knicks again smh

[ralph_i_el]

STFU. Knicks winning 20 games a year were drawing more than the Hawks were winning 50.

Which just makes it sadder that the Knicks are such a failure of a franchise. Guaranteed fan base in the biggest city in America, and even Washington has a championship more recently :roll:

here's a list of reasons why people hate on the knicks

1. history of terrible management
2. infinite money
3. fans with a false sense of superiority (typical New York behavior in general)
4. fans with a "victim complex" ie: "OMG da media hates da knicks"

espn projected 37 wins because the knicks didn't add any real pieces and got a year older. Oh look more injuries to the old guys who'd have thunk? Chris Copeland is better than ****in Bargs. If Melo walks the knicks are still capped out for next season.

[jimmy77x]

Which just makes it sadder that the Knicks are such a failure of a franchise. Guaranteed fan base in the biggest city in America, and even Washington has a championship more recently :roll:

here's a list of reasons why people hate on the knicks

1. history of terrible management
2. infinite money
3. fans with a false sense of superiority (typical New York behavior in general)
4. fans with a "victim complex" ie: "OMG da media hates da knicks"

espn projected 37 wins because the knicks didn't add any real pieces and got a year older. Chris Copeland is better than ****in Bargs.


1. Why would this even matter to someone who isnt a fan? Stupid reason to hate
2. This isn't baseball genius, so unlimited money doesn't matter with a salary cap.
3/4. Hating a team because of their fans is a very weak excuse. Just shows you are very weak minded and cant think for yourself.

[KingBeasley08]

Knicks are a pretty crappy team tbh. Doubt they only win 37 but I think they go back to their days of losing in the first round this year. Last year was an anomaly.

[hawkfan]

Interesting.

[Nick Young]

The one thing ESPN ever got right:rockon:

[kNicKz]

Without these injuries we wouldn't be where we are. Healthy this team would be top 4 in the East :confusedshrug:

[Clutch]

Thanks to ESPN for their optimism :cheers:

[tomtucker]

why did they get rid of Lin and landry fields ?............ those 2 were great


why be cheap there......and then overpay other players

[niko]

ESPN's analysis is wrong. It's number might be right but it's analysis was not Chandler gets hurt, etc.

[kNicKz]

why did they get rid of Lin and landry fields ?............ those 2 were great


why be cheap there......and then overpay other players

Landry Fields was great?

lol

[coin24]

why did they get rid of Lin and landry fields ?............ those 2 were great


why be cheap there......and then overpay other players


:biggums: :biggums:


Do you know who Landry Fields is??

[hawkfan]

The Hawks organization doesn't try to win. Their goal is to be so-so and mildly profitable. You take the worst year of the Knicks, the most stupid, obtuse, backwards run time and I'm STILL glad we are not the Hawks. The Hawks strive to be average so they can make a small profit. There are a few teams in the NBA who exist in order to exist, nothing more. The Knicks are not one of them.

The Hawks have tried to win consistently.

And actually, the Hawks are one of the LEAST profitable teams in the league. We consistently lose money.

The Hawks have a history of giving out big contracts, starting recently of course with Joe Johnson's contract.

This year they were willing to spend again, bringing in Dwight Howard, but he chose to go to Houston. And if we had signed Howard, most likely we would have brought Josh Smith back with a big contract (because Howard would want him). In fact, at the end of last season, the Hawks offered Josh a 3 years, 47 million deal, which was the max extension they could offer at that time.

[Legends66NBA7]

Chris Copeland is better than ****in Bargs.

Um, except he's not.

[HylianNightmare]

they must be psychic

[gts]

Shows what ESPN knows... Knicks are on pace for a 17-65 season

[Heavincent]

Were the Knicks trying to win in the mid 2000's?

Yes. They just failed miserably.

[Jameerthefear]

now i feel dumb

[iDunk]

Lol, we're still not winning 37 games.

Somewhere around 43-46 is reasonable.

[gts]

Lol, we're still not winning 37 games.

Somewhere around 43-46 is reasonable.You think they're going to go 40-28 from here on out? That would be quite the turn-around

[TheTruth#34]

Looks like ESPN seriously overrated the Knicks :lol

[KG215]

Lol, we're still not winning 37 games.

Somewhere around 43-46 is reasonable.
Which may be good enough for the 3-seed in the East at this rate.

[ihoopallday]

Which may be good enough for the 3-seed in the East at this rate.

:lol This

[HurricaneKid]

This retard needs to go to espn

How about watching games f@got


:lol :roll: :oldlol:


I'll just be over here waiting for my apology.



I don't think they will drop to 37 wins but it is a significant problem for the Knicks.




Knicks have a much, much better team this year.

You might have been wrong on this one.

[ralph_i_el]

Lol, we're still not winning 37 games.

Somewhere around 43-46 is reasonable.

:roll: :roll:
sure buddy. Try 35

[VIntageNOvel]

the only time ESPN has it right :applause:

[sejoon101]

Lol, we're still not winning 37 games.

Somewhere around 43-46 is reasonable.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/sejoon101/3veicyE.gif (http://s279.photobucket.com/user/sejoon101/media/3veicyE.gif.html)

[Droid101]

37 is pushing it. What, are they going on a 22 game winning streak or something?

[FKAri]

You hear that Boston? Formidable.

[Clutch]

You hear that Boston? Formidable.
I think the Knicks problem this season is obvious. We need a beast to throw the ball down low to.

[Purch]

:bowdown:

[iDunk]

Lol I'm not backing down from what I said.

We're gonna go on a run, too talented to not.

42-44 wins isn't out of the question.

[chosen_one6]

Lol I'm not backing down from what I said.

We're gonna go on a run, too talented to not.

42-44 wins isn't out of the question.

Too talented? Who do you have that's talented?

Melo? Yea ok.

Then who? JR Smith? :roll: Andrea Bargnani? :roll: :roll: Old man Ray Felton? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Tyson Chandler is solid but not a game changer. Amare is washed up. Kenyon is washed up. Shumpert is garbage. Beno Udrih is an after thought. Is there something we can't see that you can? Because if so you should be an NBA scout.

[dr.hee]

I think the Knicks problem this season is obvious. We need a beast to throw the ball down low to.

http://cdnl.complex.com/mp/620/400/90/0/bb/1/ffffff/ede101c7d6caef792a7275a357c815de/images_/assets/CHANNEL_IMAGES/SPORTS/2012/04/money-to-blow-history-of-nba-players-broke/curry_226961.jpg

[RoundMoundOfReb]

ESPN :bowdown:

[Lebron23]

ESPN = Nostradamus.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

http://cdnl.complex.com/mp/620/400/90/0/bb/1/ffffff/ede101c7d6caef792a7275a357c815de/images_/assets/CHANNEL_IMAGES/SPORTS/2012/04/money-to-blow-history-of-nba-players-broke/curry_226961.jpg

http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/sports/2012/07/23/24-jerome-james.o.jpg/a_560x375.jpg

[Lebron23]

I think it's time to blow this team up, and trade their valuable pieces. Fire Mike woodson, and ship Carmelo's fat underachieving @$$ out of New York.

[Lebron23]

9 wins - 21 losses.

[hawkfan]

9 wins - 21 losses.

This percentage makes 24 wins, so ESPN's original prediction is not close at all.

[kNicKz]

I think it's time to blow this team up, and trade their valuable pieces. Fire Mike woodson, and ship Carmelo's fat underachieving @$$ out of New York.

underachieving? His ankle is broken. Bosh can't hit game winners for Melo when he's out

[niko]

They also had Miami winning 52 or something like that, Nets are much too high, on and on. They are way off all over the place by the pace teams are playing at. Why just Knicks?

[hawksdogsbraves]

They also had Miami winning 52 or something like that, Nets are much too high, on and on. They are way off all over the place by the pace teams are playing at. Why just Knicks?

Because watching the Knicks fail is funny :confusedshrug:

[niko]

Because watching the Knicks fail is funny :confusedshrug:
Then the thread is stupid and everyone giving actual analysis should stop. The ESPN analysis was awful for most teams, it's purpose was to eliticit reaction for the radio hosts to talk about. That's all.

[imdaman99]

Because watching the Knicks fail is funny :confusedshrug:
Why is it funny? Oh because of that NYC jealousy.

It's not funny, Knicks never win. Sure the fans hype up their teams, sorry if NYers aren't debbie downers like Atlantans.

Knicks suck, and I was disrespected by ESPN's prediction. But this team has not played ANYTHING like last year's team. No one predicted them to win at a 30% clip, so kindly stfu. ESPN had them at 45-55% winning.

But sure, bump this thread everyday. I take sports seriously, but that's not the only thing going on in my life.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Why is it funny? Oh because of that NYC jealousy.

It's not funny, Knicks never win. Sure the fans hype up their teams, sorry if NYers aren't debbie downers like Atlantans.

Knicks suck, and I was disrespected by ESPN's prediction. But this team has not played ANYTHING like last year's team. No one predicted them to win at a 30% clip, so kindly stfu. ESPN had them at 45-55% winning.

But sure, bump this thread everyday. I take sports seriously, but that's not the only thing going on in my life.

I think you getting this mad kind of proves my point :confusedshrug:

[KyrieTheFuture]

Bargnani out, will they even make it to 37?

[GaryRaymond23]

Bargnani out, will they even make it to 37?

If Bargnani being out is the reason you're losing more games, may god have mercy on your soul.

[JUDGE WITNESS]

this assessment was generous to say the least

[Clutch]

Thanks to ESPN for believing in the Knicks :cheers:

:lol

[Boarder Patrol]

Oh they scared now!

I'd say we win ~33

[Legends66NBA7]

Hahaha the Hawks actually have a future and are a much better run organization than the Knicks. Infinitely more success over the past decade and a team with actually pieces to the puzzle but it's not complete. The knicks are constant garbage

The Hawks have been a consistent round 1-2 exit at best for your entire history in Atlanta. They are the definition of a treadmill team.

I also don't care for an individual comparison (all-time the Knicks are better anyways and I don't see anyone saying the Hawks are better). It was more in direction of your comment. If a Lakers or Celtics fan mocked any other organization for being garbage, it would be more logical, since they have bragging rights. The Hawks don't, regardless of their current treadmill success.

[Nash]

Thanks to ESPN for believing in the Knicks :cheers:

:lol
:lol :lol

[Illuminati]

Almost there. :oldlol:

[NumberSix]

BULLY! Lol.

[kentatm]

http://i57.tinypic.com/2w6rzw5.png

so far so good!

:lol

[Heavincent]

Turned out to be a pretty optimistic prediction :lol

[The-Legend-24]

37 games is reaching tbh, more like 30. :oldlol:

[absalom]

They cant even tank. :roll:

[Foster5k]

ESPN has regained all credibility on ISH. :D

[DStebb716]

For the Knicks to get to 37 games they need to go 16-10 the rest of the way. What an embarrassment.

[DMV2]

Has this ever happened before to a team that had nearly the exact same roster from the previous season? Of course, I'm not factoring in injury difference. I wouldn't know about, maybe a Knicks fan can chime in.

2012-13 - 54W-38L(#2 seed overall, won the Atlantic by 5 GM) to maybe 29-34 wins.

This season, they'll be lucky to get 30, let alone 37 wins. It's gonna be anywhere a 20-25 drop-off in W-L record.

I knew they overachieved last season but I thought they would have still been a playoff team this season at #7 or #8.

[smoovegittar]

Has this ever happened before to a team that had nearly the exact same roster from the previous season? Of course, I'm not factoring in injury difference. I wouldn't know about, maybe a Knicks fan can chime in.

2012-13 - 54W-38L(#2 seed overall, won the Atlantic by 5 GM) to maybe 29-34 wins.

This season, they'll be lucky to get 30, let alone 37 wins. It's gonna be anywhere a 20-25 drop-off in W-L record.

I knew they overachieved last season but I thought they would have still been a playoff team this season at #7 or #8.

Jason Kidd: "do this" Rasheed Wallace - glare.

Who's still watching?

[Marlo_Stanfield]

i love how the knicks are now done for years after they chased lin away:applause: :applause:
fcking retarded franchise:applause: :applause:

[Crafty]

http://cdnl.complex.com/mp/620/400/80/0/bb/1/ffffff/d7b2f4e085d8c1b20b274b79716d23c0/images_/assets/CHANNEL_IMAGES/SPORTS/2014/02/funniest-sports-memes-the-week-feb-12/mpzyo_knicks_841923.jpg

[kentatm]

i love how the knicks are now done for years after they chased lin away:applause: :applause:
fcking retarded franchise:applause: :applause:

Melo has MJ-like GM skills

he had a title contender developing in Denver but that wasn't good enough for him.

even then, all he had to do was STFU his last year in Denver and take less money in FA instead of forcing his way to NY via trade causing NY to gut their team. :lol

[smoovegittar]

i love how the knicks are now done for years after they chased lin away:applause: :applause:
fcking retarded franchise:applause: :applause:

Jeremy Lin blows. He couldn't handle New York... much like yourself :D

[Number24]

Knicks should start practicing for the next season.

[Hoopz2332]

http://i.imgur.com/VKnkUWf.gif

[Hoopz2332]

http://s9.postimg.org/4vd8bv8sv/melo30.gif

[Kiddlovesnets]

Need to go 16-9 to finish with 37 wins.
:bowdown:

[derb2k2]

lmaooooooooooooooooooooo

[FreezingTsmoove]

A computer SCHOENE predicted the wins. Also it correctly predicted the Knicks offense would drop from 3rd to 20th (22 to be exact)

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/48845/knicks-dont-agree-with-37-wins-projection

"Sometimes there's glitches in the computers" - Melo :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[Kiddlovesnets]

Now they need to finish 16-7 for a 37-45 season, not saying its impossible but even if they achieve 37 wins it will still be hilarious to watch.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Great bump. Thread really shows how moronic Knicks' fans are.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Great bump. Thread really shows how moronic Knicks' fans are.

Yeah, thats why they are knicks fans.
:roll:

[no pun intended]

Great bump. Thread really shows how moronic Knicks' fans are.
Come on, let's be honest, not many expected the outcome to be like this, Knicks fans or not.

[LeBron 06]

That article was a joke.

What did they do to improve their defense? Well lets see, another off season under a good defensive coach with much of the same roster that was good enough to place 2nd in the East with multiple injuries to key players. More time together creates more chemistry, more trust on defense. Not to mention they added World Peace who in short spurts can still play elite defense, and short spurts is exactly what he'll be getting next year. Shumpert who was a tremendous defender as a rookie is only going to get better now in his 3rd year. Martin is still a good defensive presence, Chandler is an elite defensive big.

Most of the other stuff is just pure Bargani hate, adding a player who theoretically complements this team tremendously is going to drop them 5 spots in the standings? Give me a break. Steve Novak is gone, so what? He was a liability on defense and couldn't put the ball on the floor, World Peace is an upgrade at that position. They act like Melo is a power forward forced into playing small forward when really it's the other way around. Yeah, offensively creates mis matches and spreads the floor offensively at the 4 however is a liability guarding 4's. Bargani can still spread the floor and isn't much worse than Melo defensively. Melos a natural 3, guards them well enough and will benefit from Bargani and the spacing he creates.

Also, this teams has crazy versatilility, Shump can guard 3 positions, Melo can effectively play the 4, World Peace could possibly see time at the 4, Hardaway Jr (who may not play much) is a good looking prospect with combo guard potential. Martin can play either both center and the 4. They also upgraded from dinasour Kidd at the backup point guard spot.

Knicks wil be good, my only concern is that they are thin at center.


:oldlol: :facepalm

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Come on, let's be honest, not many expected the outcome to be like this, Knicks fans or not.
I expected the Knicks to win 45-48 games this year but 37 games (or whatever they're on pace for) isn't a surprise. They were a wildcard coming in to the season for me since they have an EXTREMELY low IQ team.

[LeBron 06]

Only 37 wins when half the league is tanking?:roll:

58 wins is more like it.

Copeland and Novak were non factors in games that matter. Knicks won all those games because they played solid D, never turned the ball over, made threes. And cause melo is a monster lol those things are all going to be there again.

ESPN is hating tough for that article. It should be illegal to publish that.



58 wins:yaohappy:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Only 37 wins when half the league is tanking?:roll:

58 wins is more like it.

Copeland and Novak were non factors in games that matter. Knicks won all those games because they played solid D, never turned the ball over, made threes. And cause melo is a monster lol those things are all going to be there again.

ESPN is hating tough for that article. It should be illegal to publish that.
They might get to 58 wins.... over the next 2 seasons. lmao. Would bet against it though.

[LeBron 06]

This retard needs to go to espn, he doesn't know what's the difference between shooting 3's with game on the line against better opposition or in a blowout win against the other team bench. Outside of blowouts Novak was shooting like 5% 3pt's, saying that Knicks will miss Novak is laughable, dude was an absolute ZERO when needed on offense, defense i won't bother even talking about. Copeland is a much better player, but same situation.

::goes to basketball reference:: :lol :roll:

How about watching games f@got


:lol :roll: :oldlol:

Knicks have a much, much better team this year.


:yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy:

[no pun intended]

I expected the Knicks to win 45-48 games this year but 37 games (or whatever they're on pace for) isn't a surprise. They were a wildcard coming in to the season for me since they have an EXTREMELY low IQ team.
Yeah but 45-48 and 37 is the difference between making and missing the playoffs. You really expected them to miss the playoffs in the Eastern Conference? ESPN predicted them to place 7th.

[SpecialQue]

They might get to 58 wins.... over the next 2 seasons. lmao. Would bet against it though.

:oldlol:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I didn't expect it but it isn't surprising. It was a reasonable prediction.

[Heavincent]

It's not terribly shocking to see the Knicks suck. Any team that relies on JR Smith and Raymond Felton is pretty much doomed to fail.

[kennethgriffin]

theres only 21 games left and the knicks need 16 more wins to reach the predicted 37 wins


so in the end.. the fans and espn both insanely overated this garbage franchise


both sides are idiots. nobody predicted this... everyone stop acting high and mighty. nobody saw it coming

/thread


lock

[HylianNightmare]

poor knicks

[Akrazotile]

I expected the Knicks to win 45-48 games this year but 37 games (or whatever they're on pace for) isn't a surprise. They were a wildcard coming in to the season for me since they have an EXTREMELY low IQ team.


But tehy have a superster n he scores so many points thats how u win, when u have teh superstar who scores teh 27 ppg

MELO TOP 3, KNICKS TEH CONTENDERS FOR TEH CHIP

[imdaman99]

Next pie in the face stop... to win the lottery. I sure as hell hope their pick wins it, good luck Nuggets :cheers:

Not even joking, I want rock bottom for this shit franchise.

[Random_Guy]

Wow espn might actually be right!
:bowdown:

[The-Legend-24]

What a sorry ass franchise. :oldlol:

[Eric Cartman]

They are not making the playoffs if the Hawks stay healthy, which they will, so this talk about the knicks making the playoffs is just an elaborated joke for stupid knick fans to have some sort of hope that will be crushed by your stupid joke of a franchise.

[WallIn]

Well holy sht...they may be correct:oldlol:

[MellowYellow]

theres only 21 games left and the knicks need 16 more wins to reach the predicted 37 wins


so in the end.. the fans and espn both insanely overated this garbage franchise


both sides are idiots. nobody predicted this... everyone stop acting high and mighty. nobody saw it coming

/thread


lock

U are the only idiot here.

[derb2k2]

gtfo :oldlol:

If Knicks are not one of the top 4 seeds, Ill be surprised.


lol:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

you should be shot

[MellowYellow]

lol:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

you should be shot

Why? Because he didn't predict they would be going through major injury problems all season?:facepalm

[Purch]

Looks like the Knicks might come up a little bit short of expectations

[riseagainst]

Looks like the Knicks might come up a little bit short of expectations

:roll:

[Big Cheese]

how dare ESPN hold the knicks up to such high expectations :facepalm

[Solefade]

Another reason that ESPN is a joke. The Knicks will win 50 games and could be a top 4 seed.


:roll: :roll:

[iTare]

http://replygif.net/i/1464.gif

[Droid101]

There's still a chance!!

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Knicks gotta go 2-0 to make it!

ESPN :bowdown: :bowdown: :applause:

[Random_Guy]

go knicks!

[mr.big35]

they can do it

[ArbitraryWater]

oh my pls let this happen!! :lol

[Lebron23]

ESPNostradamus.

[The-Legend-24]

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj-laughing.gif

[Number24]

ESPNostradamus.
The way I see it, this is going to happen. Next game against Toronto is winnable as well... without Melo!

[fpliii]

:biggums:

[Droid101]

Oh god down to the wire.

Come on Knicks, we're rooting for you to make it!!!

[Legends66NBA7]

Knicks just made ESPN credible.

[imnew09]

ESPN :bowdown: :applause: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[oarabbus]

Knicks just made ESPN credible.


A match made in heaven

[plowking]

People really have to cut ESPN some slack. In terms of writing and their stories, it is clear as day they have to push certain stories, and make heroics out of certain players.

As far as actually knowing their stuff about sport? OF course they do... They do it for a living. People love posting the 2008 final predictions they put up... But most people had the Lakers winning too, since they were the favourite. Same with the Dallas-Heat final. No one had the Mavs winning prior to the finals. It is no different for ESPN.
They are actually quite good with their predictions if anything.

[Harison]

:applause:

[Patrick Chewing]

http://madcoqui.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/afro-shaking-head-no.gifhttp://madcoqui.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/afro-shaking-head-no.gifhttp://madcoqui.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/afro-shaking-head-no.gifhttp://madcoqui.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/afro-shaking-head-no.gif

[Meticode]

I stand by my original comment in this thread...


It's feasible to me for them to win 37 games. I'm not outraged by it.

...turns out to be just right. People put way too much stock in NY this season before a game is played.

[Rekindled]

:bowdown:

[Meticode]

On another note TheMarkMadsen looked like an idiot in this thread.

[Meticode]

I didn't think this thread would gain this much attention. I find it comical how some people here agree with ESPN's prediction of the Knicks winning only 37 games. That's blasphemous. Anything more than 20 is unattainable for the Knicks.:lol

Just Kidding. However, I think the Knicks will face a huge problem if JR can't come back and give the Knicks a consistent second option. They are a 43-54 win team and a fifth seed in the east. I don't know what ESPN is thinking though. The Knicks obtained M. Peace, A. Bargnani and B. Udrih and they are going to win 17 less games than the year prior? I hope so, but I don't think so.

Anyways, ESPN does hate the Knicks. They are the only team that has an outdated depth chart.
This post got me in tears. :roll:

[absalom]

We only saw the real potential of the knicks for about 21 games (16-5) to close the season. Now let us see wat Jackson is in store for them.

http://oi58.tinypic.com/29xzq7b.jpg

[eSOL]

Did you hear that boston?


Formidable.