If Jordan didn't get hurt in 2002

[D.J.]

After defeating the Kings on February 7, the Wizards were 26-21. They were on a 5 game win streak and had won 7 out of 8. He was averaging 25.2 PPG/6.2 RPG/5.3 APG/1.5 SPG on 42.1% shooting. Also the standings after the games on February 7:



Nets(32-15)
Bucks(28-18)
Raptors(29-21)
Celtics(28-21)
Wizards(26-21)
Pistons(26-21)
Sixers(25-24)
Magic(25-24)
-----------------------
Pacers(25-25)
Hornets(23-25)



MJ was also a legit MVP candidate at that point. If MJ remains healthy, where do they finish? And a side note, what a collapse by the Bucks.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Bad shooting percentage, but even by that point he was still suffering from age, dead legs, and lack of wind to play and dominate consistently night to night. People forget, his comeback training got delayed a month or two when Ron Artest broke his ribs in pick up. Grover, his trainer wanted to delay the come back because of it.

But still, he dramatically improved that sorry ass Wizards team. 26-21 while putting up 25 / 6 / 5 is pretty remarkable for a 38 year old who was about to turn 39 years old? Absurd stuff at that age, after three years sitting on a couch eating chips and getting fat.

It's a shame he couldn't remain healthy for the remainder of the season. A great "what if" scenario. I could see them getting to the 3rd or 4th seed in the East before the season was over.

Who knows what kind of noise they could've made in the playoffs with a healthy MJ. I'd love to hear Loki's thoughts on this subject.

[NumberSix]

They would have won. Lakers won when Jordan was injured. Doesn't count.

[D.J.]

Bad shooting percentage, but even by that point he was still suffering from age, dead legs, and lack of wind to play and dominate consistently night to night. People forget, his comeback training got delayed a month or two when Ron Artest broke his ribs in pick up. Grover, his trainer wanted to delay the come back because of it.

But still, he dramatically improved that sorry ass Wizards team. 26-21 while putting up 25 / 6 / 5 is pretty remarkable for a 38 year old who was about to turn 39 years old? Absurd stuff at that age, after three years sitting on a couch eating chips and getting fat.

It's a shame he couldn't remain healthy for the remainder of the season. A great "what if" scenario. I could see them getting to the 3rd or 4th seed in the East before the season was over.

Who knows what kind of noise they could've made in the playoffs with a healthy MJ. I'd love to hear Loki's thoughts on this subject.


I remember they said he was at his 1998 form when he broke his ribs. It was amazing that more than half way into the season, they were still fighting for home court. They were completely lost when he didn't play.

[305Baller]

Too bad he was on the Wizards. Put him on a second or first tier team that year and he could have been a game-changer for the ship.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Too bad he was on the Wizards. Put him on a second or first tier team that year and he could have been a game-changer for the ship.
Agreed, he wouldn't have had to burn himself out averaging 25/6/5 with his biggest help being an extremely young Richard Hamilton, if he was on a team with better talent. MJ could have played the Pippen Blazers role, with actual alpha closing ability on a contender. Will rep when possible

[miller-time]

Agreed, he wouldn't have had to burn himself out averaging 25/6/5 with his biggest help being an extremely young Richard Hamilton, if he was on a team with better talent. MJ could have played the Pippen Blazers role, with actual alpha closing ability on a contender. Will rep when possible

Considering how the Wizards got rid of him once he finished playing it is a shame he didn't play for a better team.

[eliteballer]

MJ was also a legit MVP candidate at that point.

No, he wasn't:facepalm

[Rake2204]

And a side note, what a collapse by the Bucks.No doubt. I remember that. Allowed the Pistons to slide in there and steal their first Central Division title in over a decade.

[Haymaker]

Imagine MJ playing with Kidd in that Nets team? I think they played together in some exhibition game and had some spectacular highlights between the two with alley oops and shit.

[Psileas]

Jordan normally continued playing from 2/7 to 2/24 before going down and the Wizards went only 1-6 at that point (1-5 in games when Jordan managed to play till the end), falling to 27-27, so I don't know what's the legit reason for pointing out the 26-21 moment. It was their best positioning late in the season (and almost Jordan's statistical apex late on, too), not the moment Jordan's crucial injury occured.

[Iceman#44]

No, he wasn't


From BALTIMORE SUN FEBRUARY 2, 2002



PHILADELPHIA - As the world's greatest organized pickup basketball contest, tonight's All-Star Game celebrates the league's fresh supply of young talent. But the race for the NBA's Most Valuable Player award has a late 1980s-early 1990s feel about it, with Michael Jordan competing against a point guard.
Back then, it was Jordan and Magic Johnson who split six MVP trophies over the seasons spanning 1986-87 to 1991-92. This season's battle is sizing up as a showdown between Jordan and the New Jersey Nets' Jason Kidd.
Oh, other candidates may emerge, namely the Dallas Mavericks' Dirk Nowitzki and Minnesota Timberwolves' Kevin Garnett, both of whom will play against Kidd and Jordan tonight.
But Jordan, who has returned from retirement to breathe life into the left-for-dead Washington Wizards, and Kidd, who has quarterbacked the Nets out of the mire of the Meadowlands swamps, are the odds-on favorites.
And their MVP chase figures to break in about the same way the Johnson-Jordan challenges did, with Jordan putting up gaudy scoring numbers and Kidd being the perfect complementary player.
Jordan's return from three years of retirement has been remarkable, with five 40-point performances already. He is also rebounding and handing out assists on par with his career averages.
Most importantly, his indomitable will and thirst for winning have lifted Washington into playoff contention with more wins by Jan. 24 than they had all of last season.
"One guy is making those dudes play like that, because I've seen those guys play before, and none of them play like that. None of them," said Houston Rockets guard Steve Francis. "He is the best player in the NBA, and when you have the best player in the NBA, then you'll play with a lot more confidence and cockiness. You can see the swagger that those guys have got when they play."
Meanwhile, Kidd, in his first year in New Jersey after an off-season trade from the Phoenix Suns for Stephon Marbury, has delivered the previously underachieving Nets the best record in the Eastern Conference. He is second in the NBA in assists and steals and leads the league in triple doubles, with consecutive masterpieces last week against the Milwaukee Bucks and Toronto Raptors, the second time this season he's done that.
"He's had the biggest impact that any one player has had on any team, so far," said New Jersey coach Byron Scott. "If there was a midseason exam right now, and you stopped the NBA and said the season's over and let's start handing out the awards, to me, Jason Kidd is the MVP."
In a close vote, the view here is Kidd gets the nod, for now, because he has brought New Jersey farther than Jordan has taken Washington. But if the Nets slip and the Wizards make the playoffs, Jordan will have earned what would be a record-tying sixth MVP.




From NY TIMES, 13 JANUARY 2002

Jordan Lifts Wizards And His M.V.P. Bid


Unthinkable and even provincial a few months ago, the subject must now be broached without laughing: Michael Jordan for most valuable player.
The season is two weeks from its midway point, and the Washington Wizards (18-16) are on track to make the Eastern Conference playoffs. A team that won 19 games last season could eclipse that total this week.
Jordan's comeback was not just about the selfish pursuit of a 38-year-old former athlete, after all.
Who else besides Jason Kidd, Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett has been more important to his team? O'Neal and Chris Webber have been injured, and neither Tracy McGrady nor Vince Carter has elevated his team to the top of the Eastern Conference. Allen Iverson, the reigning M.V.P., is muddling through a disappointing season in Philadelphia.
Jordan, who has won five M.V.P. awards, is not in the running because of his numbers, which are All-Star caliber (24.2 points a game before last night's loss to Minnesota in which he scored 35) but not quite M.V.P. worthy. His recent back-to-back outbursts of 51 and 45 points have little to do with why he is a genuine candidate. Along with that surreal two-handed block of Ron Mercer nine days ago, those were merely blasts from the past.
Jordan is an M.V.P. candidate because he did the improbable again: he got his teammates, the once-woeful Wizards, to believe in themselves.
Last week, in talking about the adjustment he had to make because of a kidney disorder, Miami's Alonzo Mourning used Jordan as an example of someone who has used other parts of his game to compensate for his diminishing athleticism.
''Every player reaches a point in their career where their game starts to decline,'' Mourning said. ''Some earlier than others. Look at Michael. He's 38. He's not averaging 30-something points a game like he used to. He's in the low 20's now. Is he still effective? Yeah, he's very effective. Is he the old Michael? Hell no. Far from it, even with those 50-point games now and then.
''I played against the old Michael. I've seen him at that level. But he's made the adjustment. He's learned to cope with his body playing at a certain level and not expecting to play at the old level. He's raised his game in other areas.''
When asked whom he would vote for at this point in the season, Geoff Petrie, the general manager of the Sacramento Kings, replied: ''I'd say Shaq and Kobe, who are almost indistinguishable because both are so good. Then Kidd, Duncan and maybe Garnett. But if the Wizards keep going the way they are, Michael would have to have a shot.''
Petrie added: ''There is another reservoir of talent there. He's so driven. I was reading something Grant Hill said recently, about the fact that it's so easy to get caught up in Jordan's athleticism. The level of athleticism has dropped, but the skill level is so high.''
Jordan's most skillful play of the season came after he called out his teammates during Washington's slide to start the season. In late November, he said, ''We stink.'' What could have been an ugly moment for the franchise instead inspired the Wizards the next month and a half.
It is still early. But if the Wizards make the playoffs, will the sentiment run so high for Jordan that candidates like Bryant and Kidd, who may be more deserving, will be spurned by the voting members of the news media?



MJ=GOAT AND MVP CANDIDATE IN 01-02 SEASON UNTIL HE WENT DOWN WITH HIS KNEE. FACT.

[HurricaneKid]

MJ=GOAT AND MVP CANDIDATE IN 01-02 SEASON UNTIL HE WENT DOWN WITH HIS KNEE. FACT.

Wait, an aged vet was playing well until an injury halted their season!??! Has this ever happened before?

I bet I can find two articles that give credence to Jeremy Lin being a viable MVP candidate at about the same time during the season. Doesn't mean much.

[D.J.]

Wait, an aged vet was playing well until an injury halted their season!??! Has this ever happened before?

I bet I can find two articles that give credence to Jeremy Lin being a viable MVP candidate at about the same time during the season. Doesn't mean much.


Lin played with Melo, Amare, and DPOY Chandler. Also had J.R. Smith. The best player on the Wizards after MJ in '02; 23 year old Rip Hamilton. 25/6/5 on a team where the second best player was Rip Hamilon while also playing with Kwame Brown, Popeye Jones, and Jahidi White. No comparison.


Wizards lineup in '02
PG- Chris Whitney
SG- Rip Hamilton
SF- MJ
PF- Christian Laettner/Popeye Jones
C- Jahidi White

Courtney Alexander, Tyrone Nesby, Tyronn Lue, Brendan Haywood


Knicks lineup in '12
PG- Lin
SG- Landry Fields
SF- Melo
PF- Amare
C- Tyson Chandler

Iman Shumpert, J.R. Smith

[Droid101]

From BALTIMORE SUN FEBRUARY 2, 2002






From NY TIMES, 13 JANUARY 2002

Jordan Lifts Wizards And His M.V.P. Bid




MJ=GOAT AND MVP CANDIDATE IN 01-02 SEASON UNTIL HE WENT DOWN WITH HIS KNEE. FACT.
No.

I'd neg you if I could. Incoming tomorrow. Be prepared.

MJ was good that season, but not an MVP.

[CavaliersFTW]

MJ was also a legit MVP candidate at that point.
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/4280480/wtf-o.gif

[Greg Oden 50]

No.

I'd neg you if I could. Incoming tomorrow. Be prepared.

MJ was good that season, but not an MVP.

lol :roll:

[Owl]

After defeating the Kings on February 7, the Wizards were 26-21. They were on a 5 game win streak and had won 7 out of 8. He was averaging 25.2 PPG/6.2 RPG/5.3 APG/1.5 SPG on 42.1% shooting. Also the standings after the games on February 7:



Nets(32-15)
Bucks(28-18)
Raptors(29-21)
Celtics(28-21)
Wizards(26-21)
Pistons(26-21)
Sixers(25-24)
Magic(25-24)
-----------------------
Pacers(25-25)
Hornets(23-25)



MJ was also a legit MVP candidate at that point. If MJ remains healthy, where do they finish? And a side note, what a collapse by the Bucks.
He was shooting about 10% worse from the field than he was in his prime (and getting to the line way less often opening up the efficiency gap even further), admitted the whole league was shooting worse than in MJ's prime but he ended up with a .468 TS% that year, most unJordanesque.

He probably wasn't a real MVP candidate at that point though his name may have been mentioned, because (a) people like writing MVP articles too early in the season and even throwing in names that will never win it because it will be forgotten by the time voting actually rolls round and (b) he's Michael Jordan. it sells papers.

And I think the blunt truth is MJ just doesn't stay healthy. He was always chasing conditioning (he hadn't stayed in shape since his 2nd retirement), or managing tendinitis (iirc) or trying to compensate for one injury and risking another.

MJ was very good for a wing his age. He was also a substantial distance off what he had been even in '98.

fwiw I think MJ is the GOAT.

[guy]

The biggest problem was BOTH Jordan and Rip got hurt at different stages in the year. They were the two best players on that team and they only started together 30 times all year and went 17-13 in those games. If those two were healthy throughout the year, they would've definitely made the playoffs and been a threat to anyone in the East, a conference who's 1st seed only won 52 games. I'd say they very well could've made it to the Finals only to get destroyed by the Lakers. That has less to do with Jordan and much more to do with how horrible the Eastern Conference was. Along with 2003 and 2007, it was easily one of the worst years for that conference. Of course, injuries happen, and a 38 year old getting injured isn't uncommon, so its not really some big what if.

[SamuraiSWISH]

The biggest problem was BOTH Jordan and Rip got hurt at different stages in the year. They were the two best players on that team and they only started together 30 times all year and went 17-13 in those games. If those two were healthy throughout the year, they would've definitely made the playoffs and been a threat to anyone in the East, a conference who's 1st seed only won 52 games. I'd say they very well could've made it to the Finals only to get destroyed by the Lakers. That has less to do with Jordan and much more to do with how horrible the Eastern Conference was. Along with 2003 and 2007, it was easily one of the worst years for that conference. Of course, injuries happen, and a 38 year old getting injured isn't uncommon, so its not really some big what if.
Best post in the thread.

[guy]

And yes, there was MVP talk for him. Kinda like there was MVP talk for Melo this year and Tony Parker last year. He obviously wasn't going to win it over the likes of Tim Duncan.

[Smoke117]

He was shooting about 10% worse from the field than he was in his prime (and getting to the line way less often opening up the efficiency gap even further), admitted the whole league was shooting worse than in MJ's prime but he ended up with a .468 TS% that year, most unJordanesque.

He probably wasn't a real MVP candidate at that point though his name may have been mentioned, because (a) people like writing MVP articles too early in the season and even throwing in names that will never win it because it will be forgotten by the time voting actually rolls round and (b) he's Michael Jordan. it sells papers.

And I think the blunt truth is MJ just doesn't stay healthy. He was always chasing conditioning (he hadn't stayed in shape since his 2nd retirement), or managing tendinitis (iirc) or trying to compensate for one injury and risking another.

MJ was very good for a wing his age. He was also a substantial distance off what he had been even in '98.

fwiw I think MJ is the GOAT.


That is the truth. The next season where he managed to play 82 games and 37mpg he was always icing his knees. His knees were all screwed up with tendinitis just the way Pippen's were at this time. In the end Jordan had two terrible inefficient seasons. Averaging 22.9ppg on 22.1 shots in 2002 (that is Antoine Walkerish at his worst) and 18.6 shot attempts for 20ppg in 2003. I don't see how you win anything with a guy shooting that horrible and that much on your team.

[Stringer Bell]

They probably make the playoffs and lose in the first round or semifinals.

What if his comeback hadn't been slowed down by Artest breaking his rib?

[Lebron23]

That is the truth. The next season where he managed to play 82 games and 37mpg he was always icing his knees. His knees were all screwed up with tendinitis just the way Pippen's were at this time. In the end Jordan had two terrible inefficient seasons. Averaging 22.9ppg on 22.1 shots in 2002 (that is Antoine Walkerish at his worst) and 18.6 shot attempts for 20ppg in 2003. I don't see how you win anything with a guy shooting that horrible and that much on your team.

This. Jordan was chucking like a mad man in 2002. He was a volume scorer in his Wizards years. In 2003 he played with Larry Hughes and Jerry Stackhouse. And they had a much better team in 2003.

[Mr. Woke]

Jordan's ball hogging nature held back the Wizards.

[SATAN]

Wouldn't have gotten far anyway.

It worked out better for his legacy since MJ stans acted like that part of his career was just some novelty run. Just MJ having fun playing the game he loves before he can no longer compete. Might have been different if the Wizards could have traded for Pippen. :ohwell:

[Lebron23]

Wouldn't have gotten far anyway.

It worked out better for his legacy since MJ stans acted like that part of his career was just some novelty run. Just MJ having fun playing the game he loves before he can no longer compete. Might have been different if the Wizards could have traded for Pippen. :ohwell:

People were calling Iverson a Cancer. Jordan was a cancer in in his wizards days. And the sad part was espn televised his games frequently.

[2much_knowledge]

Thats one of the biggest what ifs in history

Based on facts and no dumb opinions

26 - 20 record with Hamilton missing 5 weeks
They went 15 - 1 the last 16 games they played together healthy (2nd place in the East)

Pre injury numbers: 25.1 , 6.2 , 5.3 , 1.5 , 0.5 42%fg

Only player to manage those numbers? Prime Tmac

39 y/o rusty and dealing with tendinitis in the wrist and both knees and fluid drained multiple times

2002 is a credit to goatness

Would have love to see how a full healthy season with a healthy hamilton would have played out. Maybe we got that Mj vs Kobe matchup

[Lebron23]

Thats one of the biggest what ifs in history

Based on facts and no dumb opinions

26 - 20 record with Hamilton missing 5 weeks
They went 15 - 1 the last 16 games they played together healthy (2nd place in the East)

Pre injury numbers: 25.1 , 6.2 , 5.3 , 1.5 , 0.5 42%fg

Only player to manage those numbers? Prime Tmac

39 y/o rusty and dealing with tendinitis in the wrist and both knees and fluid drained multiple times

2002 is a credit to goatness

Would have love to see how a full healthy season with a healthy hamilton would have played out. Maybe we got that Mj vs Kobe matchup

https://pics.me.me/thumb_n-your-dreams-pal-14371152.png

[2much_knowledge]

https://pics.me.me/thumb_n-your-dreams-pal-14371152.png

https://youtu.be/68fsUdNIy6M. Go to the end of the video and educate yourself. Stop wasting my time

[nayte]

Jordan should have stayed retired . I get that he wanted to prove something it didn't work to well tho

[TheGoatest]

Thats one of the biggest what ifs in history

Based on facts and no dumb opinions

26 - 20 record with Hamilton missing 5 weeks
They went 15 - 1 the last 16 games they played together healthy (2nd place in the East)

Pre injury numbers: 25.1 , 6.2 , 5.3 , 1.5 , 0.5 42%fg

Only player to manage those numbers? Prime Tmac

39 y/o rusty and dealing with tendinitis in the wrist and both knees and fluid drained multiple times

2002 is a credit to goatness

Would have love to see how a full healthy season with a healthy hamilton would have played out. Maybe we got that Mj vs Kobe matchup

Let it go. Even head Jordan extremist Skip Bayless admits that his Wizards years were a mistake.

[2much_knowledge]

Let it go. Even head Jordan extremist Skip Bayless admits that his Wizards years were a mistake.

How is it a mistake when he did all this before his injury? He proved he could hand with prime A.I, Carter, Kobe, Tmac, Allen and Spree. What happened after the injury is irrelevant and had nothing to do with his ability

[Airupthere]

How is it a mistake when he did all this before his injury? He proved he could hand with prime A.I, Carter, Kobe, Tmac, Allen and Spree. What happened after the injury is irrelevant and had nothing to do with his ability

I wouldn't say a mistake but I would say irrelevant to his main body of work, in that it does not add nor diminish his legacy. You would hardly think of MJ as a Wizard.

However, his years as a wizard provide interesting proof of what a prime Jordan could do in an era where it was toughest to score.

[TheGoatest]

Karl Malone made the playoffs at the same age in the same era while posting superior numbers. And he was playing in the much tougher conference, and not the conferences with the two #1 seeds with the lowest amount of wins in the 3 point line era, like Jordan was in 2001-02 and 2002-03.

[3ball]

I wouldn't say a mistake but I would say irrelevant to his main body of work, in that it does not add nor diminish his legacy. You would hardly think of MJ as a Wizard.

However, his years as a wizard provide interesting proof of what a prime Jordan could do in an era where it was toughest to score.


The Wizards totally diminished Jordan's legacy because it took the mystique away

Knowledgeable fans understand his Wizards performance was infact amazing as the OP points out, but many young fans ONLY saw him as a Wizard and think he was overrated

[DoctorP]

Jordan smoked too many cigars and drank way too much to have epic longevity. His drive alone couldn't save his soft tissue.

[3ball]

Jordan smoked too many cigars and drank way too much to have epic longevity. His drive alone couldn't save his soft tissue.



Naw, it's just the rules - he wasn't allowed to go from HS to the pros (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0800Mo661tk&t=02m47s), so that robbed 3 seasons from him, and he wasn't hurt in 94' - he voluntarily retired and didn't have to.. so that's 5 more seasons on top of the 13 goat ones he already had..

then he added a couple more all-star seasons as a Wizard with better PER than rookie Lebron

So his longevity was great, but he was either too good to play (94'), or discriminated against (not allowed to go pro from HS)

[SATAN]

The Wizards totally diminished Jordan's legacy because it took the mystique away

Knowledgeable fans understand his Wizards performance was infact amazing as the OP points out, but many young fans ONLY saw him as a Wizard and think he was overrated

That may be true but it doesn't take away from the fact MJ was so desperate for casuals to either forget or not know about that part of his career that he created The Last Dance to pull to pull the wool over their eyes.

[Reggie43]

On the topic of the Wizards whatever happened to Courtney Alexander? He was a young athletic and talented guy. Looked it up and he was traded in Jordans 2nd year with the Wizards I wonder why.

[aceman]

More revisionist rubbish. Jordan was past it in Washington. If bullets were to make playoffs Jordan needed to take backseat to Rip then Stackhouse.

[ImKobe]

More revisionist rubbish. Jordan was past it in Washington. If bullets were to make playoffs Jordan needed to take backseat to Rip then Stackhouse.

Not in '02. They were sitting at 27-27 with MJ averaging 25/6/5. Wizards were 30 - 30 on the season with Jordan & 7 - 15 without him.

[Hey Yo]

I wouldn't say a mistake but I would say irrelevant to his main body of work, in that it does not add nor diminish his legacy. You would hardly think of MJ as a Wizard.

However, his years as a wizard provide interesting proof of what a prime Jordan could do in an era where it was toughest to score.
It most certainly diminished it. It shows he could have kept playing for the Bulls and try to defend his title in 1999 but chose to quit instead.

What league MVP and FMVP does that????

[TheGoatest]

The only thing good for Jordan that came out of his Wizards years is that he was able to get 3000+ career points more and pass the 30K mark.
If he hadn't done that, then we would be anticipating whether Carmelo Anthony would pass him in career points by the time his career ends. :oldlol:
This way we only have to discuss whether Durant and/or Harden will pass him in career points. Which is still pretty embarrassing for a "GOAT", just not as embarrassing as Carmelo.