Shaq calls Nash's MVPs "tainted"

[konex]

O'Neal calls Nash's MVPs 'tainted'

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 24, 2007 12:00 AM
MINNESOTA - Often, Steve Nash is sainted for his two MVP seasons, but Shaquille O'Neal considers them to be "tainted."

After Miami's loss in Dallas on Thursday, O'Neal was engaged in an MVP discussion as it related to the Mavericks' Dirk Nowitzki. O'Neal questioned how the media picks MVPs and said the award has been "tainted" the past two seasons. O'Neal was the runner-up for Nash's first MVP in 2005.

O'Neal repeated "tainted" references to reporters.
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"I don't know what to say," Nash said. "I'm sorry he feels that way."


Oh snapz :roll:

[Younggrease]

Oh snapz :roll:

O'Neil is probably like I dominated the keague like almost no other for 3 str8 years and only got 1 MVP. You could have put me on any team in the NBA and they would have had a shot in the playoffs. I was that valuable of a player but I only got one. Nash isnt even half that good. Thats prob why he thinks his MVP's are tainted.

I bet if you got more honest opinions from NBA players they would agree.

[funkylikemonkey]

Shaq is just saying things for the sake of staying them. He loves the spotlight and can't stand when someone else is being mentioned for their achievements. He's one of the funniest NBA players ever, but has the mentality of a jealous teenager.

[konex]

I bet if you got more honest opinions from NBA players they would agree.

Actually I think many players have let the media convince them that Nash is the MVP. Ray Allen called him the best player in the league a few weeks back :wtf:

[FabCasablancas]

I made a thread a few days ago pointing out the timeframe of Wade's comments about Dirk not being a good leader in the Finals.. this was right at the time Dirk was considered the consensus MVP.. my theory was that Shaq told Wade to say this to prevent Dirk from getitng MVP..

After reading this I have ZERO doubt that is what happened... he now seems to be doing the same thing with Nash too..

[brwnman]

I don't like that, I just want to hear the whole conversation, but calling Nash's MVP tainted is not right... Nash is one of the hardest guys to guard on offense if not the hardest... sure defensively he's not the greatest, but he's better than people give him credit for on defense... to me, he still deserved those two MVPs and for Shaq to call 'em tainted while he hasn't done sh!t for his team this year, thats just disrespect...

[bokes15]

Shaq is just saying things for the sake of staying them. He loves the spotlight and can't stand when someone else is being mentioned for their achievements. He's one of the funniest NBA players ever, but has the mentality of a jealous teenager.

Exactly. I like Shaq, but he's always had that mentality. When Kobe was becoming a top player in the league, Shaq was angry and wanted all the glory. When Wade basically took over the series and won the heat the championship, all Shaq could muster out was "I told him he could do it, he's humble, he listens to me (give me the glory) type stuff.

So, in the case of the MVP, that statement seems to have "If I can't have it, nobody else should" written all over it.

[jaja]

shaq hasnt said anythign none of use havent realized. its just PC and good media relations to not question it, but frankly nash is a very week mvp. he certainly didnt deserve it the last two years, especially the first

[MaxFly]

Exactly. I like Shaq, but he's always had that mentality. When Kobe was becoming a top player in the league, Shaq was angry and wanted all the glory. When Wade basically took over the series and won the heat the championship, all Shaq could muster out was "I told him he could do it, he's humble, he listens to me (give me the glory) type stuff.

So, in the case of the MVP, that statement seems to have "If I can't have it, nobody else should" written all over it.

You forgot Penny...

[MaxFly]

shaq hasnt said anythign none of use havent realized. its just PC and good media relations to not question it, but frankly nash is a very week mvp. he certainly didnt deserve it the last two years, especially the first

I don't mind Nash having 1... He did turn that team around when he joined... but two... no... Dirk should have been MVP last year and should be on his way to a second this year. Nash was a three pointer away from being bounced from the first round...

[Suns4Life]

shaq hasnt said anythign none of use havent realized. its just PC and good media relations to not question it, but frankly nash is a very week mvp. he certainly didnt deserve it the last two years, especially the first

Ya, since you know how every 3rd sports journalist does question it. Why is it not "PC" to question something like this? Its not offensive to anyone if this is questioned, so I don't see how it is not "PC"

[bokes15]

I don't mind Nash having 1... He did turn that team around when he joined... but two... no... Dirk should have been MVP last year and should be on his way to a second this year. Nash was a three pointer away from being bounced from the first round...

If Nash deserved it the first year, then he definitely deserved it the second year. I wouldn't have been mad if Dirk had won it, but they were a front runner in the west. W/O Amare the media had written off Phoenix and yet Nash carried them to another West finals with a bunch of new players and improved on his numbers from his first MVP season.

[MaxFly]

If Nash deserved it the first year, then he definitely deserved it the second year. I wouldn't have been mad if Dirk had won it, but they were a front runner in the west. W/O Amare the media had written off Phoenix and yet Nash carried them to another West finals with a bunch of new players and improved on his numbers from his first MVP season.

The Suns had a bunch of excellent players. The media wrote them off because no one really knew how good a team they were, but I think that Dirk deserved the award more than Nash last season. Dirk played excellent ball, and his team had an excellent record. I don't think Nash deserved the award over Dirk.

[bokes15]

The Suns had a bunch of excellent players. The media wrote them off because no one really knew how good a team they were, but I think that Dirk deserved the award more than Nash last season. Dirk played excellent ball, and his team had an excellent record. I don't think Nash deserved the award over Dirk.

Well, if Shaq had said straight up, "Dirk deserved it over Nash," it would seem like more of a legitimate statement. Instead it seems like he said what he said because Nash got it over himself (Shaq).

[MaxFly]

Well, if Shaq had said straight up, "Dirk deserved it over Nash," it would seem like more of a legitimate statement. Instead it seems like he said what he said to make because Nash got it over himself (Shaq).

Oh no, I'm with you on that. Shaq talks entirely too much. He's not even the MVP of his team. He needs to be a little more concerned about his team and less about what Nash won and hasn't won. He has a way of making everything about him... :confusedshrug:

[bokes15]

Oh no, I'm with you on that. Shaq talks entirely too much. He's not even the MVP of his team. He needs to be a little more concerned about his team and less about what Nash won and hasn't won. He has a way of making everything about him... :confusedshrug:
agreed

[theinfamousmobb]

Shaqs just pointing out how many years hes dominated and only gotten 1 MVP while Nash has only had those 3-4 great seasons and already has 2, possibly 3, Shaq got robbed in 04-05, so I agree with Shaq there.

[Younggrease]

Oh no, I'm with you on that. Shaq talks entirely too much. He's not even the MVP of his team. He needs to be a little more concerned about his team and less about what Nash won and hasn't won. He has a way of making everything about him... :confusedshrug:

someone asked Shaq a question he answered. Whats wrong with that.

Shaq has a right to talk.... HE is a top 10 player ever....Dominated the league and just came off a championship run. If he cant talk about Nash's MVP's than who can.

[bokes15]

someone asked Shaq a question he answered. Whats wrong with that.

Shaq has a right to talk.... HE is a top 10 player ever....Dominated the league and just came off a championship run. If he cant talk about Nash's MVP's than who can.

So why is he calling out Nash? Why wouldn't he call out the people who got MVP's in the years he dominated the league? AI, TD, KG?

Or if you wanna go even before that, MJ, Karl Malone? :confusedshrug: :rolleyes:

[KingofKings718]

Shaq is all talk nowadays. I hardly pay attention to this guy. Wake mew up, when he earns that 20 million a season he's getting.

[Younggrease]

So why is he calling out Nash? Why wouldn't he call out the people who got MVP's in the years he dominated the league? AI, TD, KG???

Or if you wanna go even before that, MJ, Karl Malone? :confusedshrug: :rolleyes:

This brings me to a different debate about how good Steve Nash is as a player compared to those guys in those years. And how much being in Phoenix helps steve NAsh. I dont want to get into that debate now so i will bow out. I will leave by saying i doubt Shaq puts nash in the same category as any if the players you mentioned even AI in his MVP.

I hope Nash can keeo this pace up so he wins this year and next year as well though. So when every1 looks back and see's no finals appearances they will see how dumb and overrated he and his style of play is.

[RAPSCANWIN]

Shaqs just pointing out how many years hes dominated and only gotten 1 MVP while Nash has only had those 3-4 great seasons and already has 2, possibly 3, Shaq got robbed in 04-05, so I agree with Shaq there.

04/05 was the closest MVP vote in history, I think it was separated by a couple of votes. So thats just tough luck for Shaq, that could have went either way.
As it stands now the MVP for this season is going to be Dirk or Nash. I can't wait to read the posts on ISH if Nash wins again.

And YES...he very well could win it again, Every player interview ive heard about MVPs and such, the player mentions Nash as one of the best players in the league. These are the guys playing him every night. this must hold water with all the Nash ****** out there.

Time to for the Nash ****** to give him his Due.

[Younggrease]

Shaq is all talk nowadays. I hardly pay attention to this guy. Wake mew up, when he earns that 20 million a season he's getting.

he earned it last year when he brought Miami there first ever title.

[RAPSCANWIN]

04/05 was the closest MVP vote in history, I think it was separated by a couple of votes. So thats just tough luck for Shaq, that could have went either way.
As it stands now the MVP for this season is going to be Dirk or Nash. I can't wait to read the posts on ISH if Nash wins again.

And YES...he very well could win it again, Every player interview ive heard about MVPs and such, the player mentions Nash as one of the best players in the league. These are the guys playing him every night. this must hold water with all the Nash ****** out there.

Time to for the Nash ****** to give him his Due.

why does ISH ******out the word aters with an h in the front.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Remember when Shaq dominated like no other? The talk then was shaq was obviously the MVP year after year, but they can't just give him the MVP every season, wouldn't be fair. Hey thats what everybody was saying and it kinda made sense til Nash won back-to-back MVP's. I wish Shaq elaborated a little bit more into why Nash's are tainted.

[bokes15]

This brings me to a different debate about how good Steve Nash is as a player compared to those guys in those years. And how much being in Phoenix helps steve NAsh. I dont want to get into that debate now so i will bow out. I will leave by saying i doubt Shaq puts nash in the same category as any if the players you mentioned even AI in his MVP.

I hope Nash can keeo this pace up so he wins this year and next year as well though. So when every1 looks back and see's no finals appearances they will see how dumb and overrated he and his style of play is.

The MVP isn't a comparison of previous years, it's a "what have you done for your team this year" trophy. In 04/05, Shaq didn't lead his team to a title or even past the pistons in the east finals and in 05/06 it isn't even a debate that Shaq should've won over Nash. I would put him at 6th last year behind Dirk, Nash, Kobe, Lebron, AND Wade (in any order).. and maybe even throw Chauncey in there.

[Younggrease]

The MVP isn't a comparison of previous years, it's a "what have you done for your team this year" trophy. In 04/05, Shaq didn't lead his team to a title or even past the pistons in the east finals and in 05/06 it isn't even a debate that Shaq should've won over Nash. I would put him at 6th last year behind Dirk, Nash, Kobe, Lebron, AND Wade (in any order).. and maybe even throw Chauncey in there.


i meant that I think Shaq brings up Nash's MVP's as tainted because he feels he isnt in the same class of player as other MVP's. Kinda like he isnt good enough to be in the multiple MVP club. Thats why he singled out Nash.

[Michael Jordan]

Shaq neeeds to learn its a REGULAR season MVP and Shaq is notorious for slacking off every NBA regular season, if he had half of Nash's work ethic and determination instead of relying on his Physical Dominance he'd have far more than 1 MVP.

[Younggrease]

Shaq neeeds to learn its a REGULAR season MVP and Shaq is notorious for slacking off every NBA regular season, if he had half of Nash's work ethic and determination instead of relying on his Physical Dominance he'd have far more than 1 MVP.

Well maybe if NAsh paced himself in the regualar season he wouldnt burn out in the post season and he might make it to the finals at least once. Maybe if he worked a little harder he could have learned how to play defense and than he could have won with Dirk like Shaq won with Kobe.

Shaq is in a whole different class of player than NAsh.... dont compare them as it does a disservice to Shaq.

[bokes15]

Well maybe if NAsh paced himself in the regualar season he wouldnt burn out in the post season and he might make it to the finals at least once. Maybe if he worked a little harder he could have learned how to play defense and than he could have won with Dirk like Shaq won with Kobe.

Shaq is in a whole different class of player than NAsh.... dont compare them as it does a disservice to Shaq.

You really can't compare an inside/outside tandem to Nash/Nowitzki who both played primarily on the perimeter.

If you think back to Shaq's LA days, he was notorious for having a bad work ethic. His brute size and strength were enough for him to get by in his younger days, but now we're seeing that with age, it's causing him to break down rapidly.

[johndough]

Why people put stock into this award is a mystery.Until there is some criteria established it comes down to a personal opinion.Even then it's useless...way to many factors have to be taken into account.

[Michael Jordan]

Well maybe if NAsh paced himself in the regualar season he wouldnt burn out in the post season and he might make it to the finals at least once. Maybe if he worked a little harder he could have learned how to play defense and than he could have won with Dirk like Shaq won with Kobe.

Shaq is in a whole different class of player than NAsh.... dont compare them as it does a disservice to Shaq.

You missed my point, whether you should pace yourself or go all out is a whole nother thread, Im just stating facts, its a regular season award, and Shaq slacks off\paces himself so he cant expect lots of regular season awards, even if in his case he can debatedly extend his career, play better in the playoffs and win more titles by doing so.

[TurkeyStraightUp]

I'm not a really big fan of Shaq, but I have to agree with his statement.

Nash, as good as he is perceived to be, is only a second or third string compared to many other players as far as MVP of the league is concerned.

Being MVP of your team does not necessarily translate to league MVP.


Nash definitely does not have it in him to lead his team to the promised land.

[bokes15]

I'm not a really big fan of Shaq, but I have to agree with his statement.

Nash, as good as he is perceived to be, is only a second or third string compared to many other players as far as MVP of the league is concerned.

Being MVP of your team does not necessarily translate to league MVP.


Nash definitely does not have it in him to lead his team to the promised land.

I hope everyone is still saying that after the playoffs this year.:confusedshrug:

[MaxFly]

someone asked Shaq a question he answered. Whats wrong with that.

Shaq has a right to talk.... HE is a top 10 player ever....Dominated the league and just came off a championship run. If he cant talk about Nash's MVP's than who can.

It's so much more than that. He called the award "tainted." What if Nash turned around and called the Lakers 02 championship "tainted." After all, he's a two time NBA MVP and will go down as one of the best point guards ever... why shouldn't he talk... Not everything a person can say or has the right to say should be said... Shaq's comments fall into that category.

[johndough]

It's so much more than that. He called the award "tainted." What if Nash turned around and called the Lakers 02 championship "tainted." After all, he's a two time NBA MVP and will go down as one of the best point guards ever... why shouldn't he talk... Not everything a person can say or has the right to say should be said... Shaq's comments fall into that category.

It is tainted.Not because of Nash.Because of the reasons I cited.It's a bogus award.

[NYKnicks914]

wonder if he's trying to pull the race card...

Nash's is tainted, and he doesn't think Dirk should win...

[johndough]

wonder if he's trying to pull the race card...

Nash's is tainted, and he doesn't think Dirk should win...

What you mean....'the race card?'Explain.

[heavensdevil]

1st of all, *** a Shaq.



"I don't know what to say," Nash said. "I'm sorry he feels that way."


Nash Bodied him with Kindness.

[miles berg]

Shaq is right, it is a complete joke that Steve Nash, with all of his 0, ZERO, notta Finals appearances, has 2 MVPs yet Shaq, he of 6 Finals appearances and 4 titles, has 1 MVP.

It is a complete and utter joke that Nash has two MVPs.

[FabCasablancas]

I'm not a really big fan of Shaq, but I have to agree with his statement.

Nash, as good as he is perceived to be, is only a second or third string compared to many other players as far as MVP of the league is concerned.

Being MVP of your team does not necessarily translate to league MVP.


Nash definitely does not have it in him to lead his team to the promised land.

Some people can't seem to understand that Nash's teammates are just as important as he is.. it's abou chemistry not Nash being MVP.. I have been saying it since Nash got there.

Yes nash makes his teammates better.. but they make him much much better too..

It's great GMing.. not Nash being MVP. How can Nash be MVP when he has the most talented team in the league.. Nash is playing with 2 other susperstars when Dirk doesn't even have another all-star calibre player on his team.. yet that makes Nash MVP?

[bokes15]

Shaq is right, it is a complete joke that Steve Nash, with all of his 0, ZERO, notta Finals appearances, has 2 MVPs yet Shaq, he of 6 Finals appearances and 4 titles, has 1 MVP.

It is a complete and utter joke that Nash has two MVPs.

If getting the MVP is based on finals appearances, why does KG have the award? :confusedshrug:

[lakers-city]

It's so much more than that. He called the award "tainted." What if Nash turned around and called the Lakers 02 championship "tainted." After all, he's a two time NBA MVP and will go down as one of the best point guards ever... why shouldn't he talk... Not everything a person can say or has the right to say should be said... Shaq's comments fall into that category.


is not the same by any way, a championship is a factual even that took place at one point in history, the lakers won the championship 2002 and no one can deny it, sure some laughable clowns like to whine about the refs like it happens whenever their favorite team doesnt win but that doesnt change anything, the 2002 championship is still in the lakers's trophy case, the mvp has become a favoritism award, nash over shaq in 05 was debateable already, and nash over dirk in 06 was a disgrace.

[lakers-city]

If getting the MVP is based on finals appearances, why does KG have the award? :confusedshrug:

iverson made the finas in 01, didnt he ?

[miles berg]

If getting the MVP is based on finals appearances, why does KG have the award? :confusedshrug:

Never said it was a joke for Nash to have a single MVP. His first year in Phoenix, he took them from like 29 wins to 62 wins, or something similiar. He was fantastic, regardless of how good his supporting cast was. But he was squashed in the WCFs by Tim Duncan and the Spurs, so the bar was IMO set and the only team and player to pass the bar was the Mavs and Nowitzki last year when they beat the Spurs in that great series.

Last year though, Nash was not the MVP. He got rewarded because he had to come back to earth and play with rosters similiar to what Duncan and Dirk have. Phoenix has two franchise players, Nash and Amare, and for a season he was without Amare. But he had Shawn Marion, a more bonafide all star than Tony Parker or Josh Howard. He had Boris Diaw, who certainly played at the same level as Manu Ginobili and Jason Terry.

But he got judged by a different criteria. When Tim Duncan lost David Robinson to retirement, it never factored into MVP discussion for Duncan. When Nowitzki lost Steve Nash to free agency, it never helped his case. But for Nash, it did, he led his team, a team with Shawn Marion, Boris Diaw, Barbosa, Raja Bell, etc...to 54 wins. Duncan led his to 63. Dirk his to 60.

Yet Nash was the MVP. It really doesn't add up, it is tainted. KG having a MVP is fine, but IMO to have two MVOs, you have to be a guy that leads his team to the promised land. And Shaq has done that 6 times, winning it 4 times, yet he has one less MVP than Steve Nash and the same as KG who has never been to a Finals either.

How is that not tainted? How can you blame Shaq for thinking otherwise?

[jasonterry]

Shaq is a closet racist.
A few years ago in an interview he said there's nothing worse than when a white player dunks on you or has a big game vs you.
Allen Iverson winning MVP is the most dubious thing in NBA history but you didn't hear Iverson say a thing.
And if the Suns were in the East they likely could have won a ring by now

[DreamRockets]

iverson's mvp wasn't bogus, the guy lead a piss poor pathetic team to a 56-26 record and the nba finals, throughout the playoffs he scored 50 pts twice and over 40pt 6 or 7 times, when nash makes the finals only then you can maybe put him above AI.



And if the Suns were in the East they likely could have won a ring by now

naw, they would lose to the west champions like every other east champion did, what teams would they beat ? the mavs ? the spurs ?? the lakers ?!? please.

[Solid Snake]

Only Snaq would make an unprofessional comment like this. And of course if I criticize it, as always, people will simply pass it off as "oh that's just Snaq being Snaq, that's how he's always been, speaking his mind, you gotta love the big oaf!" And it's that kind of mentality that sickens, that kind of double standard he's held to because no one dares criticize him, afterall he's a "free spirited guy who speaks his mind."

Yeah give me a f ckin break, had anyone else said it they would be bashed by the media, but it's Snaq so of course we pass it off as the "big fella just being funny."

[miles berg]

Shaq is a closet racist.
A few years ago in an interview he said there's nothing worse than when a white player dunks on you or has a big game vs you.
Allen Iverson winning MVP is the most dubious thing in NBA history but you didn't hear Iverson say a thing.
And if the Suns were in the East they likely could have won a ring by now

Larry Bird also took offense to any white guy thinking they could take him on the court. I am sure Loki or Blaze could find the exact quote, but it is there.

Is Larry Bird racist too?

[DreamRockets]

Only Snaq would make an unprofessional comment like this. And of course if I criticize it, as always, people will simply pass it off as "oh that's just Snaq being Snaq, that's how he's always been, speaking his mind, you gotta love the big oaf!" And it's that kind of mentality that sickens, that kind of double standard he's held to because no one dares criticize him, afterall he's a "free spirited guy who speaks his mind."

Yeah give me a f ckin break, had anyone else said it they would be bashed by the media, but it's Snaq so of course we pass it off as the "big fella just being funny."

of course people pass it off, he is shaq, he can do and say whatever he wants, shaq+swingman= championship or at least finals appearences, no one else except tim duncan has the same credentials in the league.

[FabCasablancas]

of course people pass it off, he is shaq, he can do and say whatever he wants, shaq+swingman= championship or at least finals appearences, no one else except tim duncan has the same credentials in the league.

Shaq+decent swingman+ horrible NBA officiating, you mean.

[jasonterry]

iverson's mvp wasn't bogus, the guy lead a piss poor pathetic team to a 56-26 record and the nba finals, throughout the playoffs he scored 50 pts twice and over 40pt 6 or 7 times, when nash makes the finals only then you can maybe put him above AI.



naw, they would lose to the west champions like every other east champion did, what teams would they beat ? the mavs ? the spurs ?? the lakers ?!? please.

Iverson led a team of top level defenders perfectly built around him to the Finals in one of the worst conferences ever..big deal

The Suns would only have needed to beat one good team (ie the West) just like Miami had to do, while all the West teams beat each other to a pulp just to reach the Finals. I'd say the Suns would have a good chance coming out the East vs any West team, given those circumstances

[Younggrease]

Shaq+decent swingman+ horrible NBA officiating, you mean.

what a surprise... a mavs fan crying about officiating.

[Solid Snake]

but has the mentality of a jealous teenager.

That's the most perfect and simplest way to put it.

What I don't get is, why aren't there more critics of Snaq? It's like every single f ckin person avoids saying things about him like he's part of the Yakuza or something and is in fear of retribution. Just ONCE I wanna see a media writer or reporter say something negative about him, just like they do about other players occasionally.

The sheep mentality when it comes to Snaq sickens me. And while I'm ranting, what exactly is sooooooooo f ckin FUNNY about what Snaq says in interviews any f ckin way???????????????? Are people that f ckin dense and shallow to actually find Snaqs humor slightly FUNNY? It's the kinda laugh you give when you laugh just to be polite, it's not like he's actually being witty and funny or satirical in ANY way at all when he gives his so called jokes.

[DreamRockets]

Shaq+decent swingman+ horrible NBA officiating, you mean.

i didn't see anything wrong with the officiating when orlando made the finals in 95, or when the lakers made the finals in 00 and 01, or BEFORE the nba finals last year, evben if you discount the 02 and last year championships thats still 4 finals appearences and 2 championships, still unmatched credential for an active player not named tim duncan.

[jasonterry]

Larry Bird also took offense to any white guy thinking they could take him on the court. I am sure Loki or Blaze could find the exact quote, but it is there.

Is Larry Bird racist too?

thats not what he said. He took offense to coaches specifically assigning white defenders to him, as if somehow they could read Bird's mind more because they were white. Thats what he said. He was pissed that in a league over 60% black, for some reason whites were specifically assigned to guard him. Thats what he said and meant.
Shaq's comment was just outright racist but no one cared because his media image is so different

[DreamRockets]

Iverson led a team of top level defenders perfectly built around him to the Finals in one of the worst conferences ever..big deal

The Suns would only have needed to beat one good team (ie the West) just like Miami had to do, while all the West teams beat each other to a pulp just to reach the Finals. I'd say the Suns would have a good chance coming out the East vs any West team, given those circumstances

ok, lets review by years:

00-02, 04: against the lakers ? please, shaq would run them out of the building.
03, 05: against the spurs ? same as above.
maybe against dallas in 06 and even that one is a maybe as dallas already beat phoenix.

[jasonterry]

i didn't see anything wrong with the officiating when orlando made the finals in 95, or when the lakers made the finals in 00 and 01, or BEFORE the nba finals last year, evben if you discount the 02 and last year championships thats still 4 finals appearences and 2 championships, still unmatched credential for an active player not named tim duncan.

Shaq has had 3 of the best swingmen of their times to play with. And it's pretty damn obvious that the latter 2, kobe and wade, are pretty damn good without him

[jasonterry]

ok, lets review by years:

00-02, 04: against the lakers ? please, shaq would run them out of the building.
03, 05: against the spurs ? same as above.
maybe against dallas in 06 and even that one is a maybe as dallas already beat phoenix.

you don't think in a 7 game series, a relatively fresh Suns team could take out any of those teams? Thats crazy. All they need is to put together 4 great games, whereas the West teams have to put together 8 great games JUST to get to the Finals.

[DreamRockets]

Shaq has had 3 of the best swingmen of their times to play with. And it's pretty damn obvious that the latter 2, kobe and wade, are pretty damn good without him

and its pretty obvious that the latter 2, kobe and wade, havent done jack but score a lot of points without him.

[gts]

and shaq wants to be a cop someday, that will be fun to see.... "i was gonna take him down cuff him and frisk him. but he said i wasn't the toughest cop he had run up against , so i shot him"

[jasonterry]

and its pretty obvious that the latter 2, kobe and wade, havent done jack but score a lot of points without him.

Give Kobe Dirk KG or Duncan and he wins 70 games every year and a ring every year till he retires. Shaqs obviously been the beneficiary of the better teams.

[DreamRockets]

you don't think in a 7 game series, a relatively fresh Suns team could take out any of those teams? Thats crazy. All they need is to put together 4 great games, whereas the West teams have to put together 8 great games JUST to get to the Finals.

nope, i don't think they can :confusedshrug: portland and sacramento couldnt knock the lakers out, neither did robinson/duncan until 03 when they dethroned the champions, the spurs are one of the most defensive teams EVER, before this season the suns had acomplished nothing but embarass themselves when playing against san antonio.

[DreamRockets]

Give Kobe Dirk KG or Duncan and he wins 70 games every year and a ring every year till he retires. Shaqs obviously been the beneficiary of the better teams.

kobe already had shaq who is better (in prime) than either KG, dirk or duncan and he never broke 70 games, why should i think he would win that much games every season ? present some evidence or shut the fck up, im not telling nothing but facts here, you are pulling some fanboy crap out of your ass to counter reality, good grief :applause:

[Younggrease]

and its pretty obvious that the latter 2, kobe and wade, havent done jack but score a lot of points without him.

Kobe and Shaq were both top 10 players in LA, some say they were both top 5. Give Kobe another top 5-10 player and then judge him. Shaq has always had that other elite player.

[bokes15]

Kobe and Shaq were both top 10 players in LA, some say they were both top 5. Give Kobe another top 5-10 player and then judge him. Shaq has always had that other elite player.

Exactly. The better question would be, what would Shaq do had he not had either of them on his team? Well, we'll get to see that. Wade w/o Shaq = .500 By the end of the season we'll see what Shaq w/o Wade is capable of.

[DreamRockets]

Exactly. The better question would be, what would Shaq do had he not had either of them on his team? Well, we'll get to see that. Wade w/o Shaq = .500 By the end of the season we'll see what Shaq w/o Wade is capable of.

shaq is on his way to 35 years old dumbass, you judge what a player does in his prime, not in his retiring years, kobe is suposed to be in his prime right now, even when kobe played with shaq he had a 39% winning % in the games shaq sat out, so much for a top 5 player in the league huh ?

maybe from kobe's mouth ? lol

"Will Shaq's presence on this team color your decision to come back or not?'' Jackson asked Bryant. ''Yes, it does,'' he replied. ''I've done that for eight years with him, but I'm tired of being a sidekick.''


there you go, kobe called himself the same way the "h@ters" have always called him, dude was a sidekick, and unlike his groopies he knows he was.

[Glove_20]

Its true though

Nash didn't deserve the 2nd MVP. Its pretty sad that Nash has 2 MVPs. 100% agree with Shaq

[Dick Biggly]

Shaq is probably just trying to take away as much attention as possible from the impending fact that his defending champion Heat are very possibly going to miss the playoffs and there is nothing his "Most Dominate Ever", $25 million a year butt can do about it.

[jasonterry]

kobe already had shaq who is better (in prime) than either KG, dirk or duncan and he never broke 70 games, why should i think he would win that much games every season ? present some evidence or shut the fck up, im not telling nothing but facts here, you are pulling some fanboy crap out of your ass to counter reality, good grief :applause:

I don't know why i'm bothering to argue with you, but what about Shaq was so amazing? every top center pwned him (hakeem, robinson, etc) until they all retired and for such an unstoppable force, his rebounding average was rather pedestrian.
You're probably the kind of "fan" who sees all the media drooling over Shaq so just follows the myth of him being a 1 man wrecking screw when he obviously wasn't (a 40 year old Sabonis pretty much owned him)

[bokes15]

shaq is on his way to 35 years old dumbass, you judge what a player does in his prime, not in his retiring years, kobe is suposed to be in his prime right now, even when kobe played with shaq he had a 39% winning % in the games shaq sat out, so much for a top 5 player in the league huh ?

huh? have you even been reading this conversation. Someone said that they'd take current Shaq over prime Yao. get your facts straight you moronic rockets fan.

[jasonterry]

nope, i don't think they can :confusedshrug: portland and sacramento couldnt knock the lakers out, neither did robinson/duncan until 03 when they dethroned the champions, the spurs are one of the most defensive teams EVER, before this season the suns had acomplished nothing but embarass themselves when playing against san antonio.

all they have to do is pull 4 great games in a single series against a tired opponent. It isn't first to ten and they only have to play 1 Western team. their chances are a lot better than you think

[DreamRockets]

I don't know why i'm bothering to argue with you, but what about Shaq was so amazing? every top center pwned him (hakeem, robinson, etc) until they all retired and for such an unstoppable force, his rebounding average was rather pedestrian.

his rebounding average is pretty much the same as hakeem who was always seen as a good rebounder in the league, he is a better rebounder than duncan and robinson, ewing too, and he is a better scorer than any of them, robinson never faced shaq in the playoffs until 99 when he was on duncan's nuts trying to ride some coattails to championships so wtf are you talking about here ?


You're probably the kind of "fan" who sees all the media drooling over Shaq so just follows the myth of him being a 1 man wrecking screw when he obviously wasn't (a 40 year old Sabonis pretty much owned him)

oh well, you just proved my theory that you never actually saw the guy play, nuff posting in this thread.

[DreamRockets]

all they have to do is pull 4 great games in a single series against a tired opponent. It isn't first to ten and they only have to play 1 Western team. their chances are a lot better than you think

tired oponnent ? lakers or spurs never looked tired to me, the suns defense is so disgracefully pathetic that dirk looked like wilt chamberlain in the series they played last year, and you are telling me prime duncan and shaq would have problems with them ? :violin:

[DreamRockets]

huh? have you even been reading this conversation. Someone said that they'd take current Shaq over prime Yao. get your facts straight you moronic rockets fan.
those people are just idiots, there isnt a single case you can make for shaq being better than yao RIGHT NOW.

[jasonterry]

tired oponnent ? lakers or spurs never looked tired to me.

I think LA was tired after beating SAC in OT game 7, if they had to actually play a good team in the Finals you never know what could have happened. Suns could have easily stolen game 1 simply by running them out of the gym (which is what they did to dallas last year in game 1)

[DreamRockets]

im having problems to make you understand those lakers and spurs teams were much better than any of the contendors of nowadays, but if i have to explain you that much do you really deserve my attention and precious time ?

[MaxFly]

those people are just idiots, there isnt a single case you can make for shaq being better than yao RIGHT NOW.

Agreed, not a single case... and believe me, it's not just Rocket fans that agree with that. You're always going to have a few fringe people talking foolishness. Don't let it bother you.

[West-Side]

In a sense that Shaquille only won ONE MVP award in the 3 years he absolutely destroyed the NBA, won THREE NBA titles....compare that to Nash who won TWO MVP's and likely his 3rd, while never reaching the finals...and not being CLOSE to as dominant on the court as Shaquille was, then he's right on point.

[DreamRockets]

i was thinking that too, but a lot of other factors come in, the most important one being the competition they faced for the award, nash wouldnt have a single mvp playing against prime shaq and duncan, muich less in the 90's playing against MJ, barkley, malone, shaq, hakeem and drob.

[Dick Biggly]

In a sense that Shaquille only won ONE MVP award in the 3 years he absolutely destroyed the NBA, won THREE NBA titles....compare that to Nash who won TWO MVP's and likely his 3rd, while never reaching the finals...and not being CLOSE to as dominant on the court as Shaquille was, then he's right on point.

MVP's are not a playoffs or Finals award, they are a regular season award. I think what a lot of you are forgetting is that in 2000-2001, the year the Lakers won their second title, Shaq and Kobe had a very public feud going that made both of them look bad and probably hurt Shaq's public image that year. It wasn't until the end of the year when that the Lakers won their final 8 games in a row to finish the season, and proceeded to go on that incredible 15-1 playoff run. The next year Shaq was banged up and only played 67 games (i could be mistaken, but i believe that was the year he had his toe surgery and really used the regular season to get himself into playoff shape). Nobody was talking about Shaq getting robbed back then, i don't understand why people always bring it up retroactively.

[DreamRockets]

shaq played 74 games in 01, more than mvp iverson, he had the same record in a much better conference, i agree with iverson's mvp but a lot of people were screaming "snubb" back in the day.

[West-Side]

MVP's are not a playoffs or Finals award, they are a regular season award. I think what a lot of you are forgetting is that in 2000-2001, the year the Lakers won their second title, Shaq and Kobe had a very public feud going that made both of them look bad and probably hurt Shaq's public image that year.

What exactly has Nash done during the regular season to deserve those awards? He didn't do NEARLY as much on the court as Shaquille in those years...plus you say playoffs don't matter but then public image does? Uhmm, whatever.

Shaquille was literally FIVE times more valuable then Nash is...put Nash on another team without all that talent, I bet you he won't be considered so important...put a prime Shaquille on ANY other team he takes them to the playoffs...comparing Nash importance to Shaquille is laughable, one is arguably the greatest center to ever live...and another is just fortunate of the situation he's in and lack of good PG's...so everyone is always on his d*ck because the next best guard is a 34 year old Kidd.

[Dick Biggly]

What exactly has Nash done during the regular season to deserve those awards? He didn't do NEARLY as much on the court as Shaquille in those years...plus you say playoffs don't matter but then public image does? Uhmm, whatever.

Shaquille was literally FIVE times more valuable then Nash is...put Nash on another team without all that talent, I bet you he won't be considered so important...put a prime Shaquille on ANY other team he takes them to the playoffs...comparing Nash importance to Shaquille is laughable, one is arguably the greatest center to ever live...and another is just fortunate of the situation he's in and lack of good PG's...so everyone is always on his d*ck because the next best guard is a 34 year old Kidd.

don't get me wrong, i don't think Nash deserves 2 mvps, at least not the 2nd one, but what is the point of comparing him to 2000-2003 Shaq? He wasn't competing with him for MVPs.

[bokes15]

shaq played 74 games in 01, more than mvp iverson, he had the same record in a much better conference, i agree with iverson's mvp but a lot of people were screaming "snubb" back in the day.

Shaq had Kobe, who did AI have? Jerry Stackhouse??:wtf:

[ExpatSunsFan]

Last year though, Nash was not the MVP. He got rewarded because he had to come back to earth and play with rosters similiar to what Duncan and Dirk have. Phoenix has two franchise players, Nash and Amare, and for a season he was without Amare. But he had Shawn Marion, a more bonafide all star than Tony Parker or Josh Howard. He had Boris Diaw, who certainly played at the same level as Manu Ginobili and Jason Terry.
I thought Nash beat out Nowitzki because he outplayed him in the 2004 playoffs, but who knows.



You must have the Suns as odds-on favorites this year, right?

[ExpatSunsFan]

Shaq had Kobe, who did AI have? Jerry Stackhouse??:wtf:

Dikembe Mutombo.

[West-Side]

don't get me wrong, i don't think Nash deserves 2 mvps, at least not the 2nd one, but what is the point of comparing him to 2000-2003 Shaq? He wasn't competing with him for MVPs.

First off, I think Nash deserved one of his MVP's...he's a great player and has a good image, but winning 2 or 3 straight MVP's is crazy for his caliber. He's not as good as some people give him credit for, it just so happens there are no great PGs today....Brevin Knight with a crappy team posted 9 assists a game 2 years ago...Nash has so many shooters, it's not as hard as it seems to average 11 assists and 18 points a game. But whatever, I spend too much time on this coversation.

I know Shaquille didn't compete with Nash...but the fact that Shaquille was SO MUCH more above his competition then Nash is...Shaquille was the BEST player in the game, Nash isn't even top 5 to me...it's kind of crazy to think one player couldn't win his 2nd MVP to someone who might win his 3rd straight...I'm starting to think if you have a clean image in this league, it'll take your further then actually having the talent.

[DreamRockets]

shaq played in the west, who did iverson played against every night ? the bucks, pacers ? cmon now, the east being so pitiful already warranted an extra 10 wins over being in the west back in the day.

[bokes15]

Dikembe Mutombo.
the same Mutumbo who got absolutely dominated by Shaq in the finals?

[ExpatSunsFan]

the same Mutumbo who got absolutely dominated by Shaq in the finals?
I don't think you're helping Iverson's case here.

[PMshooter]

To paraphrase the Dude:

"You're not wrong, Shaq. You're just an azzhole."

The MVP's been tainted ever since MJ was around. Nash has nothing to do with it. But Shaq is a loudmouth and a fool. He needs to clarify these all encompassing statements he makes. Is it tainted because Nash doesn't deserve the awards? Is it tainted because it's a subjective award and reporters don't always pick based solely on merit?

[bokes15]

I don't think you're helping Iverson's case here.

Iverson led his team to the finals with basically nobody on his team. Shaq had Kobe. Explain to me how i'm wrong and maybe you'll have a case.

[DreamRockets]

and against who he did it ?

the lakers knocked out the blazers with pippen, rasheed, smith and sabonis there, then beat the kings with webber, divac, peja and christie, then proceded to annihilate and embarass the league-leading spurs in what was one of the worst blowouts in conferece finals history, who did AI knock out again ? the pacers in the 1st round, then the series went 7 games against the RAPTORS (!!) and the bucks.

[bokes15]

and against who he did it ?

the lakers knocked out the blazers with pippen, rasheed, smith and sabonis there, then beat the kings with webber, divac, peja and christie, then proceded to annihilate and embarass the league-leading spurs in what was one of the worst blowouts in conferece finals history, who did AI knock out again ? the pacers in the 1st round, then the series went 7 games against the RAPTORS (!!) and the bucks.

Based on your argument, nobody in the east should get mvp, it should only go to a western conference team. A player doesn't choose which conference they play for or which teams they play against, and the MVP award shouldn't be based on that either.

Also, how come people are saying that in 04/05 Shaq got robbed. Baysed on this criteria, Chauncey Billups was on the team with the best record in the east, he was the best player on that team, and he wasn't even in the top 5 in votes. Was that not a robbery?

[malek4980]

It is tainted.

Name one other MVP winner who Nash is close to being as good as.

And he might win three in a row?!?!

:eek:

[malek4980]

Also, how come people are saying that in 04/05 Shaq got robbed. Baysed on this criteria, Chauncey Billups was on the team with the best record in the east, he was the best player on that team, and he wasn't even in the top 5 in votes. Was that not a robbery?

The Pistons had the fifth best record in 04/05.

[DreamRockets]

Based on your argument, nobody in the east should get mvp, it should only go to a western conference team. A player doesn't choose which conference they play for or which teams they play against, and the MVP award shouldn't be based on that either.

Also, how come people are saying that in 04/05 Shaq got robbed. Baysed on this criteria, Chauncey Billups was on the team with the best record in the east, he was the best player on that team, and he wasn't even in the top 5 in votes. Was that not a robbery?

billups never had the effect of a shaq, and you are right, no player should win mvp in the east unless they are winning 62-72 games every season like mj did, and MJ did it when the east wasn't the least yet.

[bokes15]

billups never had the effect of a shaq, and you are right, no player should win mvp in the east unless they are winning 62-72 games every season like mj did, and MJ did it when the east wasn't the least yet.
Last years Pistons had 60+ wins and Billups was still never given serious consideration. And of course a guard isn't gonna have the effect of a Shaq. That's never gonna happen.

[malek4980]

Last years Pistons had 60+ wins and Billups was still never given serious consideration. And of course a guard isn't gonna have the effect of a Shaq. That's never gonna happen.
He was fifth in voting with a .418 shooting %.

[DreamRockets]

Last years Pistons had 60+ wins and Billups was still never given serious consideration. And of course a guard isn't gonna have the effect of a Shaq. That's never gonna happen.

lol, can i know why is billups more valuable than ben wallace was in detroit ? its hard to choose an mvp in a team who has no superstars, and barely has allstars.

[bokes15]

He was fifth in voting with a .418 shooting %.
He did whatever the team needed. He distributed the ball when the team was scoring, and when they went through droughts he scored when necessary, and also took all the big shots? I think that had he been in the West, he'd be higher than 5th in voting.. So yeah, maybe the voting IS tainted, but that shouldn't detract from Nash getting it twice.

[jaja]

Why is everyone avoiding the obvious fact that Nash being white is the reason he won two and may win 3.

[miles berg]

im having problems to make you understand those lakers and spurs teams were much better than any of the contendors of nowadays, but if i have to explain you that much do you really deserve my attention and precious time ?

This gets kinda watered down after awhile. I remember when the Lakers and Spurs were owning the league and everyone said that they weren't as good as contenders from the mid 90s. It is just ridiculous to think that the NBA is the only sport where the athletes don't get better and more skilled over time.

Today's contenders, namely the Mavericks, Suns, and Spurs, can and could play with any contenders from any time in the salary cap & expansion era of the NBA. This years Mavs team could be one of the best teams in the history of the salary cap era & expansion era of the NBA.

I just refuse to believe that the NBA is the only sport where players are getting worse with time. It just isnt true.

[Snow]

Why is everyone avoiding the obvious fact that Nash being white is the reason he won two and may win 3.

Because they are too busy trying to ignore the fact that you are an ignorant racist.

Shaq should have won one over Nash, but also at least another versus Tim Duncan or AI. Last time I checked neither of them boys is white.

[detroit1]

Solid Snake, I couldn't agree with you more. Thank you for expressing my thoughts so very well.:rockon:

[jaja]

Because they are too busy trying to ignore the fact that you are an ignorant racist.

Shaq should have won one over Nash, but also at least another versus Tim Duncan or AI. Last time I checked neither of them boys is white.

ye ayeha, in racist. keep avoiding the central issue i raised. nash's race has everything to do wit it.

[bleedinpurple]

Why is everyone avoiding the obvious fact that Nash being white is the reason he won two and may win 3.

It didn't have anything to do with him leading the league in assists and leading his team to great season...without their second best player (Amare)?

[c_az_a]

AI played in the Eastern Conference, the same as Jason Kidd, who had the easy road to the finals during early 2000s. Put this Suns team, w/Nash, Amare, Marion into the Eastern Conference and see that 22-3 record magnified. They would own'd the East the way they owned them this year. 62 wins two years ago would have been close to 70 if they played in the East. They won more games that year than D-Wade's Heat (Shaq was carried, fact, check last year's finals) in the Western Conference. The Eastern Conference doesn't have the luxury of Dallas, Phoenix, San Antonio, Utah, Houston, etc. The big names kill one another, weaken one another, so the East could be lucky, as lucky as with Detroit and Miami.

[c_az_a]

The West is to the East the way the AFC is to the NFC.

[DreamRockets]

wade carried shaq last years finals, but in 05 (shaq's first year in miami) it was him who carried that team, wade's ppg increased by 9, that no name scrub damon jones looked like a household quality 3pt shooter ending up 2nd in 3pt shots and top 5 in 3pt%, shaq carried that team to 59 wins, not wade, last year is irrelevant as shaq wasn't in mvp contention last year.

[c_az_a]

Dwyane Wade 9 pt increase was natural progression. It wasn't like Wade was in the league for 7 years and all of a sudden, added nearly 10 pts to his arsenal. Wade the year before lead the Heat in the playoffs w/o Shaq.

[DreamRockets]

but that isnt what we are discussing here :confusedshrug: we are discussing who was the heat's mvp in '05, and that was shaq, not wade, it wasnt wade who made that bum damon jones shoot 3's like he was dale ellis, shaq did.

[c_az_a]

It's like saying, the addition of Hughes allowed LeBron James to average 30 PPG, etc. Wade 9 pt increase is the natural progression of any talent. Like Amare going from 12-20 and then with Nash, to 26. It is natural for a player to increase in their ability. It wasn't like Wade averaged 15 pts the last 5 seasons. He was able to put the same numbers this season as last when Shaq was gone. So i see Wade having that "it" factor and easily the one who carried Shaq then, and now. Then again, why does a player like Shaq have a Anfernee, Kobe, Dwyane wade for if he does it himself.

[DreamRockets]

It's like saying, the addition of Hughes allowed LeBron James to average 30 PPG, etc..

care to elaborate ?? unless you think someone like hughes makes the difference a dominate center like shaq does i dont see the point for this.


Wade 9 pt increase is the natural progression of any talent. Like Amare going from 12-20 and then with Nash, to 26. ..


its a mix of both, if you dont think the mvp spoonfeeding amare with easy pickandroll dunks had anything to do with his increased average then you dont know much basketball, the amare/nash case is more obvious than wade's situation, but its still there.



He was able to put the same numbers this season as last when Shaq was gone. So i see Wade having that "it" factor and easily the one who carried Shaq then, and now. Then again, why does a player like Shaq have a Anfernee, Kobe, Dwyane wade for if he does it himself.

now ? of course, shaq is averaging 13/6 and is clearly done, back in 05 ? nah, that was shaq's team, penny's fg%, 3pt%, ppg, apg all went down after shaq left orlando, he lead the team to 45 wins when shaq had lead them to 50, 57 and 60 in the years they were together, kobe lead LA to its 2nd worst record in 40 years and i'll give wade the benefit of the doubt because he hasnt played enough without shaq to judge him, but shaq was the mvp front-runner in 05, wasnt he ? that only proves my point, he carried that team, as he did in orlando and LA, not penny, not kobe, not wade, it wasnt until last year that shaq became a "carried".

[c_az_a]

now ? of course, shaq is averaging 13/6 and is clearly done, back in 05 ? nah, that was shaq's team, penny's fg%, 3pt%, ppg, apg all went down after shaq left orlando, he lead the team to 45 wins when shaq had lead them to 50, 57 and 60 in the years they were together, kobe lead LA to its 2nd worst record in 40 years and i'll give wade the benefit of the doubt because he hasnt played enough without shaq to judge him, but shaq was the mvp front-runner in 05, wasnt he ? that only proves my point, he carried that team, as he did in orlando and LA, not penny, not kobe, not wade, it wasnt until last year that shaq became a "carried".

It just shows, Nash could leave an organization like Dallas to where it is now while Shaq leaves an organization in disarray. Now in accounting purposes, we can use these past experience with Shaq and predict the future values of the Heat when Shaq leaves.

On another note. Who would pay a guy like Shaq $20 million when he's clearly declining. I want to see Shaq actually care about a team and giving them purpose to win by sacrificing his income so they can get other guys around the league to join them. If he is about championship, why is he asking for 1/5 of a 100 million dollars when he should know, that he isn't the player he once were. Now, every since he joined the Heat, this true icon Dwyane Wade has carried the 300 pound thin-looking gorilla to shine once again. So he can beat his chest. And now this icon, D-Wade is gone. Let's see if Shaq, for the first time ever, can lead a team (especially in the East) and leave us skeptics claims to rest.

Shaq ever played with a team that featured only him and a cast of supporting cast? w/o the likes of Anfernee, Kobe, D-Wade, etc.

[Free]

care to elaborate ?? unless you think someone like hughes makes the difference a dominate center like shaq does i dont see the point for this.




its a mix of both, if you dont think the mvp spoonfeeding amare with easy pickandroll dunks had anything to do with his increased average then you dont know much basketball, the amare/nash case is more obvious than wade's situation, but its still there.




now ? of course, shaq is averaging 13/6 and is clearly done, back in 05 ? nah, that was shaq's team, penny's fg%, 3pt%, ppg, apg all went down after shaq left orlando, he lead the team to 45 wins when shaq had lead them to 50, 57 and 60 in the years they were together, kobe lead LA to its 2nd worst record in 40 years and i'll give wade the benefit of the doubt because he hasnt played enough without shaq to judge him, but shaq was the mvp front-runner in 05, wasnt he ? that only proves my point, he carried that team, as he did in orlando and LA, not penny, not kobe, not wade, it wasnt until last year that shaq became a "carried".


Shaq didn't carry the team in the 05-06 season. Though he got a lot of MVP consideration, he was no more responsible for the heat's success than wade. In the regular season, Wade and Shaq were the perfect compliments to each other. Shaq was still dominant and Wade was emerging as a superstar. In the playoffs, it was pretty clear that it was wade's team. Shaq missed 6 games and the whole second round. Wade led the heat to a 4-2 series victory over the Nets and a 4-0 victory over the Wizards while posting historic numbers. In the sereies against the Pistons, Wade dominated the pistons with the exception of game 1, until he suffered a hip contusion. Before wade went down, the heat were clearly in control of the series. Wade missed game six and the heat lost by 20+ points and he never recoverd. So anyone who says that Shaq "carried" wade or the heat is mistaken.

[FabCasablancas]

Dwyane Wade 9 pt increase was natural progression. It wasn't like Wade was in the league for 7 years and all of a sudden, added nearly 10 pts to his arsenal. Wade the year before lead the Heat in the playoffs w/o Shaq.

With lamar Odom... and in the EAST!

[Prodigy]

Wade led the heat to a 4-2 series victory over the Nets and a 4-0 victory over the Wizards while posting historic numbers. In the sereies against the Pistons, Wade dominated the pistons with the exception of game 1, until he suffered a hip contusion. Before wade went down, the heat were clearly in control of the series. Wade missed game six and the heat lost by 20+ points and he never recoverd. So anyone who says that Shaq "carried" wade or the heat is mistaken.

Don't want to be an ass because that was a good post, but they swept the Nets too.

[bleedinpurple]

Shaq has never won it all without an all-star at his side...Kobe and Wade.
Yes, Kobe did carry Shaq. Remember, Shaq sat out half the season to have toes surgery "on company time". Then, in the playoffs, Kobe carried Shaq...example: remember game 7 against Portland? Obviously Wade carried Shaq last year. This is not meant to be a knock on Shaq. All Champs have had a one-two punch. Shaq was a dominant center and an all-time top-10 center.

[bleedinpurple]

but that isnt what we are discussing here :confusedshrug: we are discussing who was the heat's mvp in '05, and that was shaq, not wade, it wasnt wade who made that bum damon jones shoot 3's like he was dale ellis, shaq did.

excellent Dale Ellis reference!

[Who'sKobe]

Shaq obviously doesn't want Nash to win a third MVP, and he shouldn't. Nash had no business winning it last year.

[c_az_a]

Shaq obviously doesn't want Nash to win a third MVP, and he shouldn't. Nash had no business winning it last year.

Yeah, he apparently doesn't have enough tattoos. And NBA tends to be more for the "Blacks Only" type of award.

[Mean Joe Bean]

Shaq is absolutely right (you don't know how hard it is for me to say that). Nash being a back-to-back MVP makes me puke everytime I think of it.

Here are all the back-to back MVP's in NBA history:

Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Moses Malone
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Tim Duncan
Steve Nash

Which name doesn't seem to fit in with the rest? You decide.


And don't call me a Nash ***** either. I actually believe THIS season is Nash's most deserving year for MVP. The two previous ones should've went to Shaq (2005) and Dirk (2006) respectively..

[c_az_a]

Shaq is absolutely right (you don't know how hard it is for me to say that). Nash being a back-to-back MVP makes me puke everytime I think of it.

Here are all the back-to back MVP's in NBA history:

Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Moses Malone
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Tim Duncan
Steve Nash

Which name doesn't seem to fit in with the rest? You decide.


And don't call me a Nash ***** either. I actually believe THIS season is Nash's most deserving year for MVP. The two previous ones should've went to Shaq (2005) and Dirk (2006) respectively..

Shaq won 58 games in the Eastern Conference, Nash team won 62. Nash team the year before he got there (Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson) won 29 games. Shaq team the year before he got there, made the playoffs. Put each one together. Nash>Shaq

[Who'sKobe]

Yeah, he apparently doesn't have enough tattoos. And NBA tends to be more for the "Blacks Only" type of award.


Blacks Only award which explains why a white guy won the MVP two consecutive years.

[Who'sKobe]

Shaq won 58 games in the Eastern Conference, Nash team won 62. Nash team the year before he got there (Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson) won 29 games. Shaq team the year before he got there, made the playoffs. Put each one together. Nash>Shaq




:roll:

[c_az_a]

Blacks Only award which explains why a white guy won the MVP two consecutive years.

It appears that way with all the "Nash doesn't deserve it". So they bring up a guy like AI only having one, Shaq only having one. What about John Stockton not having one????? Oh, forgot about Kobe and that guy makes everyone around him better. Oh wait, his team wins, Kobe credit. Team lose, kobe needs help. You say, last year Dirk deserve it, therefore, your comments is contradictory when you claim Shaq the year before. How, Suns had the best record two years as Mavs did last year. Shaq doesn't even fit in the equation. Could Shaq win 54 games in the Western Conference without Dwyane Wade? I dobut it... because he barely won 58 with D-Wade in the East.

[c_az_a]

Blacks Only award which explains why a white guy won the MVP two consecutive years.

The NBA is marketing towards the wrong market segment. Apparently NASCAR is richer and starting to entertain black people (not the hood mentality ones of course) and they are making money. The NBA continues with this Kobe, LeBron thing, the players will make their cash but no where close to other sports who show players with class. Pac Man Jones should join the NBA because he fits the persona.

[Solid Snake]

Shaq is absolutely right (you don't know how hard it is for me to say that). Nash being a back-to-back MVP makes me puke everytime I think of it.

Here are all the back-to back MVP's in NBA history:

Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Moses Malone
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Tim Duncan
Steve Nash

Which name doesn't seem to fit in with the rest? You decide.


And don't call me a Nash ***** either. I actually believe THIS season is Nash's most deserving year for MVP. The two previous ones should've went to Shaq (2005) and Dirk (2006) respectively..


Obviously Nash ain't on their level. But how many times must it be said, YOU'RE NOT COMPETING WITH THE PAST, you're judged on how you do THIS season against other players...of the same season.


With that said Nash didn't deserve either one of his MVPs. But not because of that idiotic argument of bringing up past names, but because there were players who played better than him NOW.

[junkifunki]

With lamar Odom... and in the EAST!

The East wasn't that bad then. Yeah the West still owned them, but it's nothing like it is today. And you bring up Lamar Odom like he's some kind of dominant player or something. Odom has never even sniffed the playoffs before that season with the Heat.

[junkifunki]

Pac Man Jones should join the NBA because he fits the persona.

Are you trying to say NFL players behave better than NBA players? Don't make me laugh..

[Who'sKobe]

It appears that way with all the "Nash doesn't deserve it". So they bring up a guy like AI only having one, Shaq only having one. What about John Stockton not having one????? Oh, forgot about Kobe and that guy makes everyone around him better. Oh wait, his team wins, Kobe credit. Team lose, kobe needs help. You say, last year Dirk deserve it, therefore, your comments is contradictory when you claim Shaq the year before. How, Suns had the best record two years as Mavs did last year. Shaq doesn't even fit in the equation. Could Shaq win 54 games in the Western Conference without Dwyane Wade? I dobut it... because he barely won 58 with D-Wade in the East.


re-read my post again:

Shaq obviously doesn't want Nash to win a third MVP, and he shouldn't. Nash had no business winning it last year..


You have confused me for someone else..that was my first post here and I never had Dirk as the MVP..although he would have been an excellent choice too. Shaq was up for MVP in 2005. Last year it was Kobe and Dirk.

[thekavorka]

Obviously Nash ain't on their level. But how many times must it be said, YOU'RE NOT COMPETING WITH THE PAST, you're judged on how you do THIS season against other players...of the same season.


I'm glad someone finally brought this up.

[different107]

nba players irritate me when they act like this

[bleedinpurple]

Obviously Nash ain't on their level. But how many times must it be said, YOU'RE NOT COMPETING WITH THE PAST, you're judged on how you do THIS season against other players...of the same season.


With that said Nash didn't deserve either one of his MVPs. But not because of that idiotic argument of bringing up past names, but because there were players who played better than him NOW.

totally agree with your 1st paragraph.
and as much as I hate to say it, completely disagree with your second.
Nash lead the league in assists and carried his team to a GREAT record, all without their second best player (Amare). VERY impressive, even though I hate the Suns.

[Who'sKobe]

The NBA is marketing towards the wrong market segment. Apparently NASCAR is richer and starting to entertain black people (not the hood mentality ones of course) and they are making money. The NBA continues with this Kobe, LeBron thing, the players will make their cash but no where close to other sports who show players with class. Pac Man Jones should join the NBA because he fits the persona.


I don't think it should be about who's more marketable or not, although stern is trying to clean up the hip hop image from the nba. The NBA is still a business and will be run like one by Stern, which is why they need the Lebron's, the Wade's, etc to be the face of the NBA to bring in new fans. And why not? they are respectable guys.

[PMshooter]

I don't think it should be about who's more marketable or not, although stern is trying to clean up the hip hop image from the nba. The NBA is still a business and will be run like one by Stern, which is why they need the Lebron's, the Wade's, etc to be the face of the NBA to bring in new fans. And why not? they are respectable guys.

Stern's problem (and it's really his only problem as a commish) is that he thinks that a clean image is mutually exclusive from hip-hop culture. He's dead wrong about that. The NBA could be a huge force in cultivating a hip-hop image that is cool, but clean. Wade and LeBron are perfect candidates.

I mean, the entertainment and singers at the All Star game were atrociously bad. Why not get guys like Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Rhymefest, Lupe Fiasco, Kayne West, and the other leaders of the new hip hop into the NBA brand instead of a quartet of freaking Rat Pack impersonators. Or the freakin' pussycat dolls.

[Who'sKobe]

Stern's problem (and it's really his only problem as a commish) is that he thinks that a clean image is mutually exclusive from hip-hop culture. He's dead wrong about that. The NBA could be a huge force in cultivating a hip-hop image that is cool, but clean. Wade and LeBron are perfect candidates.

I mean, the entertainment and singers at the All Star game were atrociously bad. Why not get guys like Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Rhymefest, Lupe Fiasco, Kayne West, and the other leaders of the new hip hop into the NBA brand instead of a quartet of freaking Rat Pack impersonators. Or the freakin' pussycat dolls.


The entertainment at the ASG was supposed to be clean and family friendly fun, I guess. Mary J. Blige, and Wayne Newton? I failed to be entertained, by any means. I'm not a big hop-hop/rap fan, but I wouldn't mind Kanye West or those other guys.

[bleedinpurple]

Stern's problem (and it's really his only problem as a commish) is that he thinks that a clean image is mutually exclusive from hip-hop culture. He's dead wrong about that. The NBA could be a huge force in cultivating a hip-hop image that is cool, but clean. Wade and LeBron are perfect candidates.

I mean, the entertainment and singers at the All Star game were atrociously bad. Why not get guys like Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Rhymefest, Lupe Fiasco, Kayne West, and the other leaders of the new hip hop into the NBA brand instead of a quartet of freaking Rat Pack impersonators. Or the freakin' pussycat dolls.

why? because of who buys the tickets to games...corps and monied folks who can spend $200 for an evening out.
why else? TV sponsors....they try to target the money, which is baby boomers and/or their children. Hip hop does not represent any of the above. Hip hop does represent young and, to some extent, hip...but that ain't the money.

[PMshooter]

why? because of who buys the tickets to games...corps and monied folks who can spend $200 for an evening out.
why else? TV sponsors....they try to target the money, which is baby boomers and/or their children. Hip hop does not represent any of the above. Hip hop does represent young and, to some extent, hip...but that ain't the money.

Well, you can make a hell of a lot more money advertising to 18-24 year olds than you can actually selling tickets. I'm not sure how the TV deals with Disney and Turner are structured but if they share in advertising revenue, getting the NBA image away from this lame whitey crap would help a lot. Besides, all the baby boomers I talk to tell me the only part of a basketball game they watch is the last four minutes. Then I try as hard as I can not to punch them in the face.

[bleedinpurple]

Well, you can make a hell of a lot more money advertising to 18-24 year olds than you can actually selling tickets. I'm not sure how the TV deals with Disney and Turner are structured but if they share in advertising revenue, getting the NBA image away from this lame whitey crap would help a lot. Besides, all the baby boomers I talk to tell me the only part of a basketball game they watch is the last four minutes. Then I try as hard as I can not to punch them in the face.

:roll:
good one.
Corps buy the tickets, yet also dictate advertising.
the 18-24 year olds don't drive revenue as much as the boomers, but they are a large segment (actually it's about 22-30). However, hip hop only appeals to about 0% of boomers and a relatively small subset of the 22-30 year olds.
...and that's enuf socio-demographic chat.

[JtotheIzzo]

Shaq's last ring is tainted so he needs to STFU and go make another rap album

[gts]

did anyone read whitlocks column on aol.com? i'm hesitent to post it here, not really sure if it's my place...but it's fairly powerful and thought provoking stuff...

[Free]

did anyone read whitlocks column on aol.com? i'm hesitent to post it here, not really sure if it's my place...but it's fairly powerful and thought provoking stuff...

I'd like to read it.

[EricForman]

Shaq is a hypocrite and a moron that speaks without thinking.

Remember when he first found out he finished second to Nash back in 05? That's not what he said, he said something about Nash deserving it at the time.

This is a guy that once said kobe was the greatest player in the league, kobe was HIS HERO, that he has slept with Cindy Crawford, that he has "killed Jordan in the playoffs", that Iverson was what, one of the top five greatest ever?

Guy speaks without thinking, and is constantly contradicting himself.

Would you be surprised, if say, 6 years later, he comes out and says "actually Penny was better than both Dwyane and Kobe" or "Glen Rice was my greatest teammate ever"?

[bleedinpurple]

Stern's problem (and it's really his only problem as a commish) is that he thinks that a clean image is mutually exclusive from hip-hop culture. He's dead wrong about that. The NBA could be a huge force in cultivating a hip-hop image that is cool, but clean. Wade and LeBron are perfect candidates.

I mean, the entertainment and singers at the All Star game were atrociously bad. Why not get guys like Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Rhymefest, Lupe Fiasco, Kayne West, and the other leaders of the new hip hop into the NBA brand instead of a quartet of freaking Rat Pack impersonators. Or the freakin' pussycat dolls.

for a better explanation of "why not", see Jason Whitlock's article on aol.com entitled "Mayhem main event at all-star game".

[EricForman]

wow, this Jason Whitlock guy writes good stuff

this article paticularly, is dead on

http://sports.aol.com/whitlock/_a/time-to-stop-looking-past-black-kkk/20070222104609990001

like i always say, I find it annoying the way minority always pulls the race card. If a WHITE MAN had written this same article, black people would call it racist. But it's the facts, man.

Vegas during the weekend, every legit or wannabe gangsta rapper, with 20 people entourage, walking around looking angry, all over the strip..... Bill Simmons was right, most "normal" people chose to wait in line and pay to ride taxis than walk half a block to the next casino.

[0ne50]

So why is he calling out Nash? Why wouldn't he call out the people who got MVP's in the years he dominated the league? AI, TD, KG?

Or if you wanna go even before that, MJ, Karl Malone? :confusedshrug: :rolleyes:Shaq did make a comment about AI winning the MVP. It's hard to argue that TD did not deserve MVP honors. I don't recall him saying anything about KG but if he did I would'nt mind. For all of the years making it to the NBA finals, winning championships, dominating the entire league, and effecting how other teams build there rosters, it's shameful that he only has one MVP.

[JtotheIzzo]

Didn't Whitlock get fired in part from ESPN for dissing Stu Scott saying he was always "Bojangling" too much and it was bad.

that is 540' racism right there, a black man fired for dissing another black man for acting how he thought was too stereotypically black, and an embarassment to upstanding black people and the black community.

dizzy yet?

I wondered if I (a white man) would get disciplined for calling Keith Olberman a 'cracker ass cracker'?

probably not

race in America is f'ed up any way you slice it and political correctness has made things a thousand times worse.

[EricForman]

what I say about Shaq CONSTANTLY contradicting himself and saying things for the sake of drawing attention?

check this out from ESPN's weekend dime

I would love to be able to tell you what Shaquille O'Neal meant Thursday night when he said that the MVP voting has been "tainted" for the "last couple years."

But I can't.

Attempts by the media pack at O'Neal's locker to get him to expound were rebuffed. And while it might seem like an obvious shot at Steve Nash, that contradicts the conversation I had with Shaq before the game.

When he asked who I projected to win the MVP award, O'Neal reacted with disbelief when I told him Dirk Nowitzki was leading the race with a third of the season to go.

"Over Nash?" Shaq asked . . . and in a disapproving way, not sarcastically.

[FabCasablancas]

You know.. it's pretty funny now that I think about Shaq using the word "tainted".. because that is exactly what the Heat's championship was -- tainted.

In fact.. all Shaq's championships are really tainted because of the way he is officiated.. but especially last season.

[crisoner]

Wow...Shaq got that ***** cologne on still?

Why can't the big fella give the small white cunuck some respect?

[KWALI]

wow, this Jason Whitlock guy writes good stuff

this article paticularly, is dead on

http://sports.aol.com/whitlock/_a/time-to-stop-looking-past-black-kkk/20070222104609990001

like i always say, I find it annoying the way minority always pulls the race card. If a WHITE MAN had written this same article, black people would call it racist. But it's the facts, man.

Vegas during the weekend, every legit or wannabe gangsta rapper, with 20 people entourage, walking around looking angry, all over the strip..... Bill Simmons was right, most "normal" people chose to wait in line and pay to ride taxis than walk half a block to the next casino.

That Uncle Tom is an idiot....So is the black KKK at DUKE when they have strippers at a Lacrosse Team Party? Are they at Colorado when the Coach is messing with students..

When you get a large group of men hyped up **** happens especially when they have money to throw around.
He ever been to Spring Break...I was in Panama City as guys were taking of females bikini tops when they would "show your ****" themselves and I was only one of 5 black people their....

PACMAN being an ass has nothing to do with him being BLACK..and to compare drive by shootings to Lynchings...He's probably the only ni66a in teh states that calls a cookout a picnic.

what an idiot.

[bleedinpurple]

Didn't Whitlock get fired in part from ESPN for dissing Stu Scott saying he was always "Bojangling" too much and it was bad.

that is 540' racism right there, a black man fired for dissing another black man for acting how he thought was too stereotypically black, and an embarassment to upstanding black people and the black community.

dizzy yet?

I wondered if I (a white man) would get disciplined for calling Keith Olberman a 'cracker ass cracker'?

probably not

race in America is f'ed up any way you slice it and political correctness has made things a thousand times worse.

yea, if you called anyone a "cracker ass cracker" on TV, then you would probably be fired.

[bleedinpurple]

That Uncle Tom is an idiot....So is the black KKK at DUKE when they have strippers at a Lacrosse Team Party? Are they at Colorado when the Coach is messing with students..

When you get a large group of men hyped up **** happens especially when they have money to throw around.
He ever been to Spring Break...I was in Panama City as guys were taking of females bikini tops when they would "show your ****" themselves and I was only one of 5 black people their....

PACMAN being an ass has nothing to do with him being BLACK..and to compare drive by shootings to Lynchings...He's probably the only ni66a in teh states that calls a cookout a picnic.

what an idiot.

I was there in Vegas. Whitlock was right. I don't know about comparing drive-bys to lynchings...but the Vegas scene was outta control. I don't think the "gangsta" and "groopies" and "entourage" came to town with the intention to start any BS, but the BS did happen.

[XxNeXuSxX]

In fact.. all Shaq's championships are really tainted because of the way he is officiated.. but especially last season.
:roll: That's absolute bullsh*t.

[reppy]

Clearly, the media is influencing the reporters.. I mean, I can't turn on my TV without Nash telling me to buy some car or get some cell phone or eat at this burger joint..

[malek4980]

Clearly, the media is influencing the reporters.. I mean, I can't turn on my TV without Nash telling me to buy some car or get some cell phone or eat at this burger joint..

~(media = ads)

[reppy]

~(media = ads)

I'm being sarcastic. The only time I see Steve Nash in a commercial is that latest Nike commercial, and that has basically every Nike baller in it. So, I don't think that counts.

Shaq is just a big baby.

[FabCasablancas]

:roll: That's absolute bullsh*t.

Sorry if the truth hurts..

[DreamRockets]

Shaq has never won it all without an all-star at his side...Kobe and Wade.
Yes, Kobe did carry Shaq. Remember, Shaq sat out half the season to have toes surgery "on company time". Then, in the playoffs, Kobe carried Shaq...example: remember game 7 against Portland? Obviously Wade carried Shaq last year. This is not meant to be a knock on Shaq. All Champs have had a one-two punch. Shaq was a dominant center and an all-time top-10 center.

puhlease, classic kobe groopie, one game proves he carried shaq, one game (81pt) proves he is mvp, for each game kobe carried shaq shaq carried kobe tenfold, remember the finals in 00 when kobe shot 38% against single coverage and averaged 15 ppg ? shaq carried kobe and another 10 scrubs in the finals, 1 game is no indication of anything, then in '04 kobe losses them the series against detroit with his ballhogging, its no wonder shaq despises kobe, they could have won 4 rings instead of 3 if it wasnt for kobe bombing away in 04 trying to win finals mvp.

[MaxFly]

Shaq's last ring is tainted so he needs to STFU and go make another rap album

Haha, I was waiting for someone to say that Shaq's last ring was tainted... part of me wishes that Nash would pull a Gilbert Arenas and say something like that... I even hope Dirk would say something...

[bleedinpurple]

puhlease, classic kobe groopie, one game proves he carried shaq, one game (81pt) proves he is mvp, for each game kobe carried shaq shaq carried kobe tenfold, remember the finals in 00 when kobe shot 38% against single coverage and averaged 15 ppg ? shaq carried kobe and another 10 scrubs in the finals, 1 game is no indication of anything, then in '04 kobe losses them the series against detroit with his ballhogging, its no wonder shaq despises kobe, they could have won 4 rings instead of 3 if it wasnt for kobe bombing away in 04 trying to win finals mvp.

Actually, I couldn't care less about Kobe. I would trade him in a heartbeat for the right player (Lebron or Wade).
I did not say "One game"...I used one game as an example. Please pay attention to the thread. I'm sorry, where did I say Kobe deserved to be MVP because he scored 81 points? Stop making crap up. AND you missed the entire point of the discussion.
Please stay out since you don't know what you are talking about nor bothering to read. Stop coming around trying to stir something up.

[KWALI]

I was there in Vegas. Whitlock was right. I don't know about comparing drive-bys to lynchings...but the Vegas scene was outta control. I don't think the "gangsta" and "groopies" and "entourage" came to town with the intention to start any BS, but the BS did happen.

Who said he wasn't right about it being outta control? WHat I said is it being outta control has nothing to do with the race of the participants...more their standing, status and funds. Debauchery doesn't only happen when black jocks are in large groups it happens when any group of 18-30 year olds are together in larges groups who have money to spend and females are they to please or to be gawked at...

I guess Soccer Hoodlums in Europe are also part of the Black KKK?

He's an idiot.

[bleedinpurple]

Who said he wasn't right about it being outta control? WHat I said is it being outta control has nothing to do with the race of the participants...more their standing, status and funds. Debauchery doesn't only happen when black jocks are in large groups it happens when any group of 18-30 year olds are together in larges groups who have money to spend and females are they to please or to be gawked at...

I guess Soccer Hoodlums in Europe are also part of the Black KKK?

He's an idiot.

OK. I see what you're saying.

[WoGiTaLiA1]

Shaq is spot on the money. Nash is the worst player to win an MVP in my lifetime, and its by a considerable amount. Only AI is even close and on top of that, Nash has two. Thats more than Hakeem, Stockton, Shaq, Robinson, Payton and Drexler just to name a couple of vastyl superior players.

Nash's name has tainted the award, it has become an award that apparently isnt allowed to go to the best player in the league because well that wouldnt be fair on the rest.

There is only one excuse for why there arent exactly 4 players to have won an MVP since 1991 and that is that the award is not serious, its a joke. The only players who have deserved the award are Jordan, Hakeem(Robinson is fair enough), Shaq and Duncan. There is not another player in the league who has deserved MVP consideration, nevermind to win the award.

The NBA needs a serious reform of how its voting is done because the awards have lost credibility.

[EricForman]

Who said he wasn't right about it being outta control? WHat I said is it being outta control has nothing to do with the race of the participants...more their standing, status and funds. Debauchery doesn't only happen when black jocks are in large groups it happens when any group of 18-30 year olds are together in larges groups who have money to spend and females are they to please or to be gawked at...

I guess Soccer Hoodlums in Europe are also part of the Black KKK?

He's an idiot.


Um, it Vegas it wasn't just girls being gawked at. Trust me, it was no exaggeration when people kept saying they were afraid to walk the strip, because you feel like you were gonna get mugged/shot any second.

It wasn't the "drunken partying wildly" kinda scene in Vegas. It was the "shady drug dealers standing in the corner holding something in their pockets". "guys driving back and forth with tinted windows closed all the way except an inch where someone is eyeing the street" kinda thing.

[Rasheed1]

Who said he wasn't right about it being outta control? WHat I said is it being outta control has nothing to do with the race of the participants...more their standing, status and funds. Debauchery doesn't only happen when black jocks are in large groups it happens when any group of 18-30 year olds are together in larges groups who have money to spend and females are they to please or to be gawked at...

I guess Soccer Hoodlums in Europe are also part of the Black KKK?

He's an idiot.

Exactly... I cant stand whitlock.... He lives only to go overboard say stupid sh*t about other black folk...

I swear to God I'd rather run into a racist white guy saying the same crap then hear it from some black guy.... It makes you wanna throw up..

Not even the white people overstated the situation to the degree he did...

he takes pride in that sh*t...



Um, it Vegas it wasn't just girls being gawked at. Trust me, it was no exaggeration when people kept saying they were afraid to walk the strip, because you feel like you were gonna get mugged/shot any second.

It wasn't the "drunken partying wildly" kinda scene in Vegas. It was the "shady drug dealers standing in the corner holding something in their pockets". "guys driving back and forth with tinted windows closed all the way except an inch where someone is eyeing the street" kinda thing.

Well I went to college in Florida and have attended many spring break activities and they are as bad if not worse than any freeknik or greek picnic Ive have ever been to.

The only difference I really see in the hooligans is their race.....

there are white dudes standing around selling X and acid in Ft. Lauderdale at the same rate "shady drug dealers" are standing on the corner...

And beyond that, this is f*ckin Vegas :oldlol: Vegas has the same stuff going on every weekend... But this week was the NBA's fault?

[HALLandOATES]

Shaq was the runner up in 05'? I'm i diehard heat fan and didn't know this.

[TheHonestTruth]

Shaq is racist.

[mjbulls23]

:oldlol: @ the bump

[KokeAyne]

If I was Nash I would purposely throw a bullet pass right into Shaqs face.

[June1026]

Shaq was the runner up in 05'? I'm i diehard heat fan and didn't know this.

lol yea, and he lost by the slightest of margin.



Shaq is racist.

That's a fact.

[SonOHammerwafer]

Shaqs right, Nash's first MVP was a joke.

[bada bing]

Shaqs right, Nash's first MVP was a joke.

so is the notion that your team's star player can lead his team to an NBA championship without Shaq.

[Dbrog]

Shaq is spot on the money. Nash is the worst player to win an MVP in my lifetime, and its by a considerable amount. Only AI is even close and on top of that, Nash has two. Thats more than Hakeem, Stockton, Shaq, Robinson, Payton and Drexler just to name a couple of vastyl superior players.

Nash's name has tainted the award, it has become an award that apparently isnt allowed to go to the best player in the league because well that wouldnt be fair on the rest.

There is only one excuse for why there arent exactly 4 players to have won an MVP since 1991 and that is that the award is not serious, its a joke. The only players who have deserved the award are Jordan, Hakeem(Robinson is fair enough), Shaq and Duncan. There is not another player in the league who has deserved MVP consideration, nevermind to win the award.

The NBA needs a serious reform of how its voting is done because the awards have lost credibility.

I agree with literally everything you said. It was absolutely shocking to me seeing the players with just 1 MVP as well. I guess i knew it, but seeing them all together on paper almost infuriates me. I suppose i shouldn't care so much, but honestly, how is anyone supposed to take this sport seriously if they don't even acknowledge the true MVP each season? This is a sport without predetermined outcomes after all, the awards should reflect that rather than this media BS. :banghead:

[Jorn444Lakers]

so is the notion that your team's star player can lead his team to an NBA championship without Shaq.

zing?

[SonOHammerwafer]

so is the notion that your team's star player can lead his team to an NBA championship without Shaq.
No he can't, but Bynum can:cheers:

[w00terz]

so is the notion that your team's star player can lead his team to an NBA championship without Shaq.

Lakers have a good chance of making it to the finals this year. I still think the Celtics have the Lakers' number though (mainly because they'll be so well rested).

[Jorn444Lakers]

LOL @ kobe being mentioned in a thread unrelated to him... again.

Well i guess it is "related" because it's the mvp award, but you know what i mean :)

[nashisbest]

mvp don't mean zip. now don't go running up a 20 page thread talking about it

let's move on to championships

[EuJazz]

I didn't read the rest of the thread.

But Shaq is right on the money. Nash is a ***.