Stop it with this Kobe "The Killer" myth (Jordan and lebron comparison)

[Hoopz2332]

I keep hearing/reading about this Kobe "The Killer" myth when people make comparisons between the similarities and differences between him, Jordan and lebron but it's flatout BS! The numbers just don't back up Kobe's rep.:biggums: Let's take a look at some numbers..

Playoff Numbers


KObe

25.6 ppg 45 FG% on 21 FGA

5 rbs


5ast
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lebron

28.1 ppg 47 FG% on 20 FGa

9 rbs

7 ast


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Jordan

33.4 ppg 49 FG% on 25 FGA

6 rbs

6 ast


:coleman:




Clutch numbers in the playoffs

Playoff clutch time

http://i.imgur.com/6sylQYF.jpg (old)

updated

http://i.imgur.com/m8fCjif.png

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/58575/lebron-james-isnt-clutch-think-again


I thought KObe was a "killer"?:biggums:



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Playoff elimination games


Michael Jordan Elimination Game Averages:

31.3 PPG,

7.9 RPG,

7.0 APG,

2.1 SPG,

1.0 BPG,

4.2 TOPG,

45.8 FG%,

33.3 3P%,

75.7 FT%


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LeBron James Elimination Game Averages:

31.9 PPG,


10.1 RPG,

6.5 APG,


1.4 SPG,

.6 BPG,

4.5 TOPG,

46.5 FG%,

31.4 3P%,

73.8 FT%

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.
.

Kobe Bryant Elimination Game Averages:

22.3 PPG,

5.6 RPG,

3.7 APG,

1.2 SPG,

.6 BPG,

3.0 TOPG,

41.4 FG%,

27.5 3P%,

77.9 FT%


Where is KObe "the killer" at in elimination games?:oldlol:


Straight up game 7's or 5's

Michael Jordan G7 Stats:

36.8 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 6.6 APG, 1.2 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 4.0 TOPG, 48.9 FG%, 33.3 FG%, 79.7 FT%

-W/out Game 5’s
33.7 PPG, 7.7 RPG, 7.0 APG, 1.0 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 3.7 TOPG, 45.7 FG%, 0.0 3P%, 81.8 FT%


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Kobe Bryant G7 Stats:

21.4 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 5.1 APG, .9 SPG, 1.6 BPG, 2.0 TOPG, 39.5 FG%, 32.4 3P%, 70.2 FT%

-W/out Game 5’s
22.2 PPG, 8.0 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.0 SPG, 1.3 BPG, 2.2 TOPG, 38.9 FG%, 35.8 3P%, 67.3 FT%


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LeBron James G7 Stats:
34.4 PPG, 9.0 RPG, 3.6 APG, 1.6 SPG, .4 BPG, 2.4 TOPG, 47.4 FG%, 31.3 3P%, 79.4 FT%


Kobe "The Killer" again, nowhere to be seen:wtf:


NBA Finals Shooting Numbers




lebron


2007 NBA Final: – 35.6% FG,

2011 NBA Final: 47.8% FG,

2012 NBA Final: 47.2% FG,

2013 NBA Final: 44.7% FG,



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Kobe


2000 NBA Finals – 36.7% FG

2001 NBA Finals – 41.5% FG

2002 NBA Finals – 51.4% FG

2004 NBA Finals – 38.1% FG

2008 NBA Finals – 40.5% FG

2009 NBA Finals – 43.0% FG

2010 NBA Finals – 40.5% FG,

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Jordan

1990-91 - .558

1991-92 .526

1992-93 .508

1995-96 .415

1996-97 .456

1997-98 .427

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..


Jordan - 48FG% Finals career


lebron - 44 Fg% FInals career

KObe - 41 FG% finals career



KObe "The Killer" again not showing up:confusedshrug:

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I've come to the conclusion that this cold blooded assassin known as "KObe" doesn't exist.


http://i.imgur.com/kmxk69V.gif

[TheMilkyBarKid]

I've seen it before but damn mj and LeBron own game 7s/elimination games

[Hoopz2332]

I've seen it before but damn mj and LeBron own game 7s/elimination games


Yeah, they do and are much more "Killer" than Kobe

[LEFT4DEAD]

Kobe' fans reaction after seeing this thread:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/342630dd23439dd6ead7d6a3ad87ccdb/tumblr_mt94w8AOGX1sp5a0no1_400.gif

[Hoopz2332]

Kobe' fans reaction after seeing this thread:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/342630dd23439dd6ead7d6a3ad87ccdb/tumblr_mt94w8AOGX1sp5a0no1_400.gif


:oldlol:

[LikeABosh]

Shut it down! :bowdown: :bowdown: :applause:

[Trollsmasher]

Damn. All the ugly truth Kobetards tend to run away from combined in one massive and completly ethering post:applause: :bowdown: :applause:

future repped

[#number6ix#]

Nice thread you got all the numbers right but this has been done to death... Lets compare some other players... Like bird,kd,melo,nique or anybody... I'm a fan of all 3 but I'm sick of these motherfvckers...

I swear I know every stat ever for these guys

[Hoopz2332]

Kobeites right now

http://i.imgur.com/49OorUM.gif

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Fans have an appreciation of great offensive performances against actually quality defenses (sub 100 defensive rating).

The myth is that Jordan and Lebron faced similar ones as Kobe.

:confusedshrug:

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Fans have an appreciation of great offensive performances against actually quality defenses (sub 100 defensive rating).

The myth is that Jordan and Lebron faced similar ones as Kobe.

:confusedshrug:

Here comes the local Kobetard making execuses for his boy.

[gts]

using 27 shots to define a 17 year career. How lame can one get

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Here comes the local Kobetard making execuses for his boy.

"Pay attention to efficiency" they cried.

Ok.

"Ignore the efficiency of the defenses they faced."

:oldlol: :facepalm

[havoc33]

Clutch numbers in the playoffs

Playoff clutch time

updated

http://i.imgur.com/m8fCjif.png

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/58575/lebron-james-isnt-clutch-think-again

This one can be updated now. Lebron went 1/3 in the Finals, so that makes him 8/19 overall.

I wonder what Wade's stats are?

[andgar923]

Haters!!!

Haters!!!

All of yous is haters!!!



On the real tho, any objective fan will know this. One of the main reasons some feel Kobe is overrated and has been shoved down our throats for decades. He had been given the mantle before he even accomplished anything. NBA and its affiliates has been pushing their Kobe agenda for a long time now.

To be fair, he hasn't been the only player they've tried shoving down our throats. He is deserving of 'some' praise, just not THE praise he gets.

[PJR]

Perception vs Reality. :oldlol:

[SilkkTheShocker]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:


The funny part is, Kobe's most notable playoff game is his 6-24 game 7:oldlol: :oldlol:

WHAT A KILLER!!!!


:roll: :roll:

[coin24]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:


The funny part is, Kobe's most notable playoff game is his 6-24 game 7:oldlol: :oldlol:

WHAT A KILLER!!!!



:roll: :roll:


And the most notable part of your sad existence is you constantly posting about a player you supposedly hate on a message board.. :applause:

[SilkkTheShocker]

And the most notable part of your sad existence is you constantly posting about a player you supposedly hate on a message board.. :applause:

Deflecting about me won't change the fact your favorite player sucks balls in the clutch. :oldlol:

[jstern]

Kobe' fans reaction after seeing this thread:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/342630dd23439dd6ead7d6a3ad87ccdb/tumblr_mt94w8AOGX1sp5a0no1_400.gif

This one would have been funny too. Aggressively trying to get away.

http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/i%27m%20out%20of%20here/grand/25707680-I%27m-out-fore-here-.gif

[Trollsmasher]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BWtZ1sQIEAAM38F.png:large

[SilkkTheShocker]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BWtZ1sQIEAAM38F.png:large



:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

This thread it amazing :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Yikes, perception is a powerful thing when the hype machine is in full swing. Even when in actuality it isn't necessarily deserved.

This is basically why I stopped being a fan of Kobe. He had all these amazing regular season games, that in retrospect and in the context of his performance against better teams particularly in the playoffs and Finals made him seem kind of overrated.

Not a bad player, still top ten. Just maybe not as great as the MJ and even LeBron comparisons.

Yea he faced some great defenses in the Finals, thats no excuse though. MJ, Bron, Wade saw those gritty, suffocating team defenses in their own conference playoffs before the Finals and comparatively obviously performed better. MJ, LeBron and Wade saw great defenses in the Finals too.

The Kobe cult stays making excuses in order to give their god an extra push to the premier tier all time that he might not deserve. Stick to praising his most redeeming attribute, that absurd longevity.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

MJ>LeBron>Kobe. Nothing I didn't know already.

[NumberSix]

Kobe's killer instinct = making angry faces.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://mavsmag.com/redirk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/photo-1-500x373.jpg

I would also suggest we stop it with this Lebron "The Killer" myth :oldlol:

[Trollsmasher]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

This thread it amazing :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
They just showed this stat to Stephen A. on the Sportscenter and that sour face of his (before he went on a completly nonsensical rant which only purpose was to the drive attention away from Kobe's lack of killer instinct) was just:lol

As Swish has said, public perception is strong with Kobe.

[LEFT4DEAD]

http://mavsmag.com/redirk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/photo-1-500x373.jpg

I would also suggest we stop it with this Lebron "The Killer" myth :oldlol:
Nobody's denying that he was awful in the clutch in those finals. But compared to Bryant he has much more great performances in finals (even though thats not so hard since I cant remember even one Kobe's good finals game) and in playoffs.
And nobody is calling Lebron "a killer" like people use to call Kobe with no reason. Thats what needs to be sorted out.
Kobe' fans need to face it. He is an average at best in the clutch and below average in deciding games. Doesn't belong in the same sentence with Lebron or Jordan when we are talking about those parts of game.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

http://mavsmag.com/redirk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/photo-1-500x373.jpg

I would also suggest we stop it with this Lebron "The Killer" myth :oldlol:

You have to take the whole career into account. These past two years, it's hard to argue that Lebron doesn't have a killer instinct.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

They just showed this stat to Stephen A. on the Sportscenter and that sour face of his (before he went on a completly nonsensical rant which only purpose was to the drive attention away from Kobe's lack of killer instinct) was just:lol

As Swish has said, public perception is strong with Kobe.

Steven A. is so annoying. He just favors people who hang out with him and give him interviews. No objectivity whatsoever. I even prefer Skip to him.

[SilkkTheShocker]

http://mavsmag.com/redirk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/photo-1-500x373.jpg

I would also suggest we stop it with this Lebron "The Killer" myth :oldlol:

It's kind of funny how a gigantic Wilt fan like yourself has the balls to question anyone about their abilities in the clutch :oldlol:

[Trollsmasher]

Steven A. is so annoying. He just favors people who hang out with him and give him interviews. No objectivity whatsoever. I even prefer Skip to him.
I agree. Skip is still entertaining. Stephen A is so high up in so many asses around the league that I doubt he can even afford to criticize anyone anymore:lol

[CavaliersFTW]

You have to take the whole career into account. These past two years, it's hard to argue that Lebron doesn't have a killer instinct.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day, I am taking his whole career into account - which is why it's so easy for me to see he lacks killer instinct. Choked in 2007, 2010, and 2011. These blemishes will never go away. In 2010 he literally gave up and looked in a state of shell shock before the series was over. So Kobe's got no killer instinct? lol then who does? It certainly won't be found in Lebron. The days of Lebron having a bad series or bad game where he goes back into his shell are not over, the guy didn't 'become' a killer, he never was one. Sh*t, he almost went into his shell just this past post season how is it so easy for you guys to forget this years title was totally dependent on Ray Allen's shot? There's the teams Killer.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, I am taking his whole career into account - which is why it's so easy for me to see he lacks killer instinct. Choked in 2007, 2010, and 2011. These blemishes will never go away. In 2010 he literally gave up and looked in a state of shell shock before the series was over. So Kobe's got no killer instinct? lol then who does? It certainly won't be found in Lebron. The days of Lebron having a bad series or bad game where he goes back into his shell are not over, the guy didn't 'become' a killer, he never was one. Sh*t, he almost went into his shell just this past post season how is it so easy for you guys to forget this years title was totally dependent on Ray Allen's shot? There's the teams Killer.

Wait, aren't you a hardcore Wilt fan :lol

[SilkkTheShocker]

Wait, aren't you a hardcore Wilt fan :lol

Thats the funny part. And he brings up LeBron in 2007 and 2010 but won't say a peep how his teamamtes absolutely choked in those playoffs. I don't think I have ever seen a Cavs fan on here blame Mo Williams or their bench for any of those losses. It's just always all on LeBron.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, I am taking his whole career into account - which is why it's so easy for me to see he lacks killer instinct. Choked in 2007, 2010, and 2011. These blemishes will never go away. In 2010 he literally gave up and looked in a state of shell shock before the series was over. So Kobe's got no killer instinct? lol then who does? It certainly won't be found in Lebron. The days of Lebron having a bad series or bad game where he goes back into his shell are not over, the guy didn't 'become' a killer, he never was one. Sh*t, he almost went into his shell just this past post season how is it so easy for you guys to forget this years title was totally dependent on Ray Allen's shot? There's the teams Killer.
Kobe has nothing to compare with Lebrons game 6 vs Boston, game 7 vs Pistons, game 6 and 7 vs Spurs etc. He almost doesn't have a notable game that everybody will remember after he retires except for 6/24 game.
Lebron didn't choke in 2007. He was only on a one-man team. And he was that man.
And you blame him for taking that Celtics team almost by himself to a 7game series, the same team that beat Kobe and the best frontcourt in the league in 2008 and took them to 7 games 2 years later?

I will give you 2011, he was straight up afraid of taking a shot vs Mavs. He is the one to blame, but he compensated and even more than that with the last two finals.

Now give me the facts why Kobe is "a killer". Im waiting...

[CavaliersFTW]

Thats the funny part. And he brings up LeBron in 2007 and 2010 but won't say a peep how his teamamtes absolutely choked in those playoffs. I don't think I have ever seen a Cavs fan on here blame Mo Williams or their bench for any of those losses. It's just always all on LeBron.
So Lebron carries the responsibility of best player and deserves all the praise but NONE of the blame? Mo Williams wasn't staring up at the shot clock with an empty gaze in the final minutes of the 2010 NBA playoffs... Lebron was. Who should we blame for 2011, was it Mike Bibby's fault perhaps?

:oldlol: @ trying to suck Lebron's d*** at every passing opportunity but getting :mad: when someone tries to point a finger at him for not performing in big moments up to the bar he himself sets during the first 3/4's of his regular season games.

[DuMa]

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[NumberSix]

So Lebron carries the responsibility of best player and deserves all the praise but NONE of the blame?
You say that like its in some way contradictory.

[SilkkTheShocker]

So Lebron carries the responsibility of best player and deserves all the praise but NONE of the blame? Mo Williams wasn't staring up at the shot clock with an empty gaze in the final minutes of the 2010 NBA playoffs... Lebron was. Who should we blame for 2011, was it Mike Bibby's fault perhaps?

:oldlol: @ trying to suck Lebron's d*** at every passing opportunity but getting :mad: when someone tries to point a finger at him for not performing in big moments up to the bar he himself sets during the first 3/4's of his regular season games.

The problem is you fail to realize there is more to why those Cavs teams lost, son. Look what happened in 2009. Mo Williams was relied on to be the 2nd option and to take pressure off LeBron. What happened in the playoffs? He got worse every round to the point in the ECF he became a laughing stock. His rep is still in the toilet from the awful ECF. Same thing in the 2010 where he made Rondo look like Magic Johnson to the point Mike Brown had to change the rotations. LeBron guards Rondo, and what happens? Paul Pierce starts to go off. What about Jamison getting taken to the woodshed by KG? The bench not showing up in two consecutive playoffs (09 and 10) or Big Z making Dwight look like Shaq? The best player will always get most of the blame but the fact you still continue to put the blame on LeBron just show how much of butthurt little b.itch you are that he left Cleveland. Get over it son. He left Cleveland and went on to win titles. While your looking for grainy footage of Wilt dropping 50 points in games he ended up losing. Get a clue.

[Hoopz2332]

http://mavsmag.com/redirk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/photo-1-500x373.jpg

I would also suggest we stop it with this Lebron "The Killer" myth :oldlol:


those are included in all of the overall numbers and clutch stats that I just posted. Even with that, lebron's numbers overall and in the clutch are better than Kobe's:oldlol:

[Hoopz2332]

Perception vs Reality. :oldlol:


:applause:

[Chrono90]

http://imageshack.us/a/img268/7973/kobechirpslebrone133031.jpg

[Chrono90]

Joining two other enemies in their primes also don't make him a killer.

[secund2nun]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, I am taking his whole career into account - which is why it's so easy for me to see he lacks killer instinct. Choked in 2007, 2010, and 2011. These blemishes will never go away. In 2010 he literally gave up and looked in a state of shell shock before the series was over. So Kobe's got no killer instinct? lol then who does? It certainly won't be found in Lebron. The days of Lebron having a bad series or bad game where he goes back into his shell are not over, the guy didn't 'become' a killer, he never was one. Sh*t, he almost went into his shell just this past post season how is it so easy for you guys to forget this years title was totally dependent on Ray Allen's shot? There's the teams Killer.

You are butthurt cavs fans with no credibility.

Choked in 2007??? He led the weakest cast in history in the finals. NOBODY thought they would beat Detriot and he single handedly did.

2010? Lebron averaged like 28-9-8 while shutting down Pierce and even nearly had a 30-20-10 in game 6, which is the game after the low IQ fans think he quit. 2011 was Lebron's only underperformance and even then it was a 17-7-7 48%.

Don't blame Lebron on Cleveland's PATHETIC incompetence surrounding him with utter trash and overpaying that trash.

It's not Lebron's fault Ferry ruined the Cavs.

And to say the season is useless because it was totally depdent on one person's shot is the stupidest argument ever. I guess that every single playoff run that features a buzzer beater by a role player invalidates it for the superstar?

Finals MVP get over it. Enjoy your crippled Irving and your pathetic lottery ridden Cavs. 18 wins before Lebron and like 19 wins after Lebron- be grateful for the 7 years.

[Twiens]

Teaming up with Wade/Bosh.....no killer instinct

/thread

[NumberSix]

Teaming up with Wade/Bosh.....no killer instinct

/thread
Choosing name "Twiens"....... Pedo.


/thread

[DaSeba5]

OP....


Game. Set. Match.

Kobe stans/haters:
http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Kicking+a+Sign+You+re+doing+it+wrong+.+Fail+Fail+F ail_0bc0df_4014080.gif

[Hoopz2332]

Joining two other enemies in their primes also don't make him a killer.


What model-dependent realism has to say about whether Kobe is clutch


Kobe isn't Clutch:

Despite all of his clutch fame, Kobe has had his skeptics. Most non-Laker fans hold this opinion. Some of this skepticism is based purely on hate, and other is based off of facts. Recently, ESPN analysts have criticized Kobe's numbers and how they deceive people in articles like this and this. What, exactly, makes Kobe so not clutch?

While Kobe has made a ton of clutch shots over his career, he has missed significantly more. Between 2000 and 2012, Kobe shot by far the highest number of attempts (230) in the final minute of games with a margin of five points or fewer for regular season games. Of those 230 attempts, he only made 80 of them. 80/230 puts him at a mediocre 34.8%, only slightly above the atrocious league average of 33.7%. This means that for every clutch basket that Kobe makes, he has 1.87 clutch misses. If those numbers are considered worthy of being considered one of the clutchest players of all time, Amar'e Stoudemire should be up there, as well. When your clutch numbers are worse than this guy, you probably should join a depression clinic before an all-clutch NBA team.

Regular season games are great and all, but the playoffs are the games that really matter. If you think Kobe's clutch numbers are better there, boy are you wrong. In the final minute of playoff games where the margin is within five points, Kobe has gone 10/31. That's 32.3%, which means that for every one amazing make Kobe has he has 2.09 bricks. Granted this playoff number comes in a small sample size; LeBron James (apparent, notable choke artist) has actually made the same number of clutch shots in the final minute of a playoff game as Kobe between 2000 and 2012 with 11 fewer attempts. That's not even including the plethora of clutch makes LeBron had against the Pacers and Spurs. Kobe's numbers are certainly not indicative of a player who shows up in big games.

As much of an offensive threat as Kobe is, one would expect that the Lakers would have a top-notch offense in crunch time of close games. To see a complete recap of just how bad Kobe and the Lakers' crunch time numbers are, you should check out Henry Abbott's Truehoop article posted a few years ago. One of the most stunning excerpts from this article is:

You'd expect Los Angeles to also have one of the league's best offenses in crunch time, right? Especially with the ball in the hands of the player most suited to those moments.

That's not what happens, though. In the final 24 seconds of close games the Lakers offense regresses horribly, managing just 82 points per 100 possessions...

The Lakers are not among the league leaders in crunch-time offense -- instead, they're just about average, scoring 82.35 points per 100 possessions in a league that averages 80.03. They are, however, among the league leaders in how much worse their offense declines in crunch time.

When Bryant is on the floor in crunch time, Bryant's Lakers are actually outscored by their opponents.

Kobe is said to be the clutchest player of all time, yet the Lakers' offensive numbers beg to differ.


http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/9/9/4683058/kobe-bryant-clutch-stephen-hawking


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LeBron James, Heat great in the 'clutch'





As it pertains to the NBA, "clutch time" is defined as less than five minutes to go in the fourth quarter or overtime and the score within five points.


And right now no team is more clutch than the Miami Heat, and no player is more clutch than LeBron James.

And after Monday’s comeback against the Boston Celtics, it’s worth noting in recent history just how great this Heat team has been in clutch situations.

In the past 17 seasons, the Heat are one of two teams that have outscored their opponents by more than 30 points per 100 possessions in "clutch time". The only team better than this year’s Heat? The 2008-09 Cleveland Cavaliers, who just happened to be led by LeBron.



http://i.imgur.com/vsGZyYa.png


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U:mad: ?

[DaSeba5]

A lot of you haters talk about LeBron stans being in denial, but a lot of you keep trying to say LeBron has no killer instinct and is not clutch, and people continue to disprove your argument. It's just getting sad at this point. You can dislike him for his personality or whatever, but this isn't the thing to attack him for.

[yeaaaman]

http://mavsmag.com/redirk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/photo-1-500x373.jpg

I would also suggest we stop it with this Lebron "The Killer" myth :oldlol:

All I know is this is not deserving of "best player ever" status.

[Hoopz2332]

All I know is this is not deserving of "best player ever" status.

better than Kobe though:lol

http://i.imgur.com/fCFn7uE.png

[zoom17]

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

What year was this :roll: :roll: :roll:

[longtime lurker]

All that OP pretty much said is that he's a nerd that doesn't bother to watch the games. I'd take the opinions of players, GM's and coaches over some troll on a messageboard.

[ispin69]

All them facts in the OP:
Even Kobef@gs cannot deny them, nothing to refute.

"Killer" Kobe Myth: BUSTED

/thread.

[NumberSix]

All them facts in the OP:
Even Kobef@gs cannot deny them, nothing to refute.

"Killer" Kobe Myth: BUSTED

/thread.
Kobe makes angry faces on the court.

#killerinstinct

[Hoopz2332]

All that OP pretty much said is that he's a nerd that doesn't bother to watch the games. I'd take the opinions of players, GM's and coaches over some troll on a messageboard.

words of the defeated:oldlol:

http://i.imgur.com/OcZOVHr.jpg

[TheMarkMadsen]

about the elimination games stat..

this is Kobe's game log for those "elimination games"

Kobe Bryant

[Hoopz2332]

[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]about the elimination games stat..

this is Kobe's game log for those "elimination games"

Kobe Bryant

[NumberSix]

Eliminition games as in: YOU WIN OR GO HOME
Lol. Niqqa puts other teams getting eliminated. :roll:

Kobe Stans willful bending and doctoring of facts knows no bounds.

[longtime lurker]

words of the defeated:oldlol:

http://i.imgur.com/OcZOVHr.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bO71IFy.png

NBA GM Survey

46.7% say they want Kevin Durant taking the last shot with the game on the line

1. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 46.7%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 40.0%
3. Carmelo Anthony, New York -- 6.7%

:confusedshrug:

[Hoopz2332]

http://i.imgur.com/bO71IFy.png

NBA GM Survey

46.7% say they want Kevin Durant taking the last shot with the game on the line

1. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 46.7%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 40.0%
3. Carmelo Anthony, New York -- 6.7%

:confusedshrug:


REPEAT AFTER ME: Perception (what people think they see) vs Reality (what stats actually support)

http://i.imgur.com/yBmbxt7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HiOKn4V.png

http://i.imgur.com/qcQbOuC.jpg

[Greg Oden 50]

lebron is weak,never face up against great defensive team :banana:

[DMAVS41]

http://i.imgur.com/bO71IFy.png

NBA GM Survey

46.7% say they want Kevin Durant taking the last shot with the game on the line

1. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 46.7%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 40.0%
3. Carmelo Anthony, New York -- 6.7%

:confusedshrug:

Why do GM's continue to ignore Melo in these situations? It's hilarious how ignorant they are.

The dude is on pace to be the best game winning shot maker of all time. 7% is a joke...and further proof that GM's often don't know shit about their own business.

[Doranku]

It is not surprising that LeBron has superior playoff numbers as he faces historically bad competition in the playoffs.

For example, he only managed to defeat ONE 50 win team throughout his entire tenure as a Cleveland Cavalier. One.

And in the 5 series that he lost, he had abhorrent performances such as against the '07 Spurs, '08 Celtics, '10 Celtics etc.

I would be scared to see Kobe or Jordan's playoff numbers if half the teams they played were sub 45 win teams. :oldlol:

[DKLaker]

Try watching the games not the stats OP......and MJ says you're wrong......but hey, maybe you know more than MJ and his 6 rings and Kobe and his 5 rings :oldlol:

[ripthekik]

none of his peers respect him and want to give him the ball for end of game situations. So much for "killer instinct", lebron. :lol

[AintNoSunshine]

http://i.imgur.com/bO71IFy.png

NBA GM Survey

46.7% say they want Kevin Durant taking the last shot with the game on the line

1. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 46.7%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 40.0%
3. Carmelo Anthony, New York -- 6.7%

:confusedshrug:

That's why these GM's teams are not winning the championship, Lebron's team is and has by far the best performance in the clutch.

Sorry dog, fact>opinion, stop hating on the King.

[longtime lurker]

That's why these GM's teams are not winning the championship, Lebron's team is and has by far the best performance in the clutch.

Sorry dog, fact>opinion, stop hating on the King.

You're absolutely right. Where would Lebron be if not for Bosh and Ray Allen saving him

[AintNoSunshine]

lebron is weak,never face up against great defensive team :banana:


Nothing is weaker than your boy's knees:facepalm

[AintNoSunshine]

You're absolutely right. Where would Lebron be if not for Bosh and Ray Allen saving him


Actually the Lebron led Cavs was even better, be informed son:facepalm

[longtime lurker]

Nothing is weaker than your boy's knees:facepalm

Rofl. The same guy that happens to be on your team. Talk about a fail comment :lol

[AintNoSunshine]

Rofl. The same guy that happens to be on your team. Talk about a fail comment :lol

Of course I want Oden to be healthy and be a force, but what I said was only the truth:confusedshrug:

[chazzy]

Kobe career regular season: 46/145 = 31.7%
Lebron career regular season: 26/89 = 29%

Combined playoffs/reg season Kobe: 30.8%
Combined playoffs/reg season Lebron: 31.1%

They suck

[havoc33]

Kobe career regular season: 46/145 = 31.7%
Lebron career regular season: 26/89 = 29%

Combined playoffs/reg season Kobe: 30.8%
Combined playoffs/reg season Lebron: 31.1%

They suck
What does these stats show exactly? FG's in the last 24 seconds?

Do you have a link?

[andgar923]

For everybody defending Kobe by stating "You should watch the game!!!"

Um.. yeah

[Hoopz2332]

What does these stats show exactly? FG's in the last 24 seconds?

Do you have a link?


last 24 secs reg season

http://i.imgur.com/HiOKn4V.png

[chazzy]

last 24 secs reg season

http://i.imgur.com/HiOKn4V.png
That pic is inaccurate. You can go to bball ref and look it up yourself. For Kobe's, I had to get data from an ESPN article that dates back to 96 since bball ref stops at 01. Then I added the years not included after the article was released.

[DMAVS41]

Interesting stuff. Here is another metric;

Shot to tie or take lead with 2 minutes or less left in the playoffs since 2001;

Kobe 17/50
Dirk 14/30
Lebron 21/43

Shot to tie or take lead with 5 minutes or less left in the playoffs since 2001;

Kobe 30/88
Dirk 25/52
Lebron 36/74

Love him or hate him, Lebron has been damn clutch in the playoffs overall for his career.

Playoff games played during above sample;

Kobe 170
Dirk 128
Lebron 138

Most interesting aspect of this stuff is that Lebron actually averages more of the above shots per playoff game than Kobe does. Something that doesn't fit with the "scared" narrative much at all.

[Budadiiii]

It's not hard to understand...

LeBron is the most gifted natural athlete of all time..

He puts up better stats by default.

LeBron doesn't need to be a "killer" to be one of the all time greats. All he has to do is go out there and have fun and he drops 35 10 and 7 like its nothing. What athlete can perform like he can without some other worldly mental focus?

Because he puts up better stats means he's mentally greater than Kobe? Idiotic..

People criticize LeBron because they feel he's not living up to his FULL POTENTIAL... that is never a question for Kobe or Jordan..

Stats mean absolutely nothing when comparing the mental aspects of the game..

There are the Wilt, Shaq, and LeBron's

and then theres the Jordan, Kobe, Magic and Birds...

LeBron is the better player, Kobe is the more respectable player..

[gts]

Why do GM's continue to ignore Melo in these situations? It's hilarious how ignorant they are.

The dude is on pace to be the best game winning shot maker of all time. 7% is a joke...and further proof that GM's often don't know shit about their own business.


Because they actually watch the games, talk to the coaches, scouts and players. they don't go running to basketball reference and waste time breaking down a tiny handful of shots from a players career to make their decisions

[DMAVS41]

It's not hard to understand...

LeBron is the most gifted natural athlete of all time..

He puts up better stats by default.

LeBron doesn't need to be a "killer" to be one of the all time greats. All he has to do is go out there and have fun and he drops 35 10 and 7 like its nothing. What athlete can perform like he can without some other worldly mental focus?

Because he puts up better stats means he's mentally greater than Kobe? Idiotic..

People criticize LeBron because they feel he's not living up to his FULL POTENTIAL... that is never a question for Kobe or Jordan..

Stats mean absolutely nothing when comparing the mental aspects of the game..

There are the Wilt, Shaq, and LeBron's

and then theres the Jordan, Kobe, Magic and Birds...

LeBron is the better player, Kobe is the more respectable player..



Like I said above, love him or hate him, Lebron has been more clutch in the playoffs than Kobe for their careers to date. Lebron wins this by a wide margin actually.

Look at the above stuff I posted. And this doesn't even mention elimination games or game 7's.

And on game winning shots in the playoffs since 2001

Kobe 6/25
Dirk 5/13
Lebron 7/17

[DMAVS41]

Because they actually watch the games, talk to the coaches, scouts and players. they don't go running to basketball reference and waste time breaking down a tiny handful of shots from a players career to make their decisions

It's way more than a handful. And if you actually watched you'd know Melo gets the best looks out of anyone in these situations.

[crisoner]

The youth is so freaking lost.

Been watching bball for three decades...Kobe Bryant is the last of a dying breed. Maybe Durant or Westbrook got his killer gene...this friend happy NBA is for the birds.

[Budadiiii]

Like I said above, love him or hate him, Lebron has been more clutch in the playoffs than Kobe for their careers to date. Lebron wins this by a wide margin actually.

Look at the above stuff I posted. And this doesn't even mention elimination games or game 7's.

And on game winning shots in the playoffs since 2001

Kobe 6/25
Dirk 5/13
Lebron 7/17
He's a better player and shoots a higher percentage all the time. He's bigger, stronger, faster, more agile, and has a better feel for the game. Better instincts, passing, vision.. etc..

But I've never questioned Kobe's will to win. I sometimes question LeBron 's mental fortitude.

Kobe can out right suck but still be giving everything he has.. and LeBron can be putting up 32 11 6 and still not look fully engaged mentally.

Stats are meaningless. Just watch them play, the interviews, pick up on their demeanor, their habits..

LeBron has very childish tendencies.. very annoying guy.. just so happens to be the most naturally gifted athlete ever... good for him. Doesn't mean I'm gonna dick ride him for hitting the genetic lottery..

[Budadiiii]

The youth is so freaking lost.

Been watching bball for three decades...Kobe Bryant is the last of a dying breed. Maybe Durant or Westbrook got his killer gene...this friend happy NBA is for the birds.
Yup... I love those two being apart of my hometown team. Couldn't ask for two better guys to have... The whole OKC Thunder culture is special..

[tmacattack33]

It's not hard to understand...

LeBron is the most gifted natural athlete of all time..

He puts up better stats by default.

LeBron doesn't need to be a "killer" to be one of the all time greats. All he has to do is go out there and have fun and he drops 35 10 and 7 like its nothing. What athlete can perform like he can without some other worldly mental focus?

Because he puts up better stats means he's mentally greater than Kobe? Idiotic..

People criticize LeBron because they feel he's not living up to his FULL POTENTIAL... that is never a question for Kobe or Jordan..

Stats mean absolutely nothing when comparing the mental aspects of the game..

There are the Wilt, Shaq, and LeBron's

and then theres the Jordan, Kobe, Magic and Birds...

LeBron is the better player, Kobe is the more respectable player..

There are many things wrong with this post, but I'll just discuss one:

Throughout this whole thing you make the assumption that shooting at the end of games means just one thing: that you are not scared to shoot and are brave.

When in reality it could also mean: 1. You are selfish 2. You have terrible shot selection 3. You have no ability to trust your teammates.

[Budadiiii]

There are many things wrong with this post, but I'll just discuss one:

Throughout this whole thing you make the assumption that shooting at the end of games means just one thing: that you are not scared to shoot and are brave.

When in reality it could also mean: 1. You are selfish 2. You have terrible shot selection 3. You have no ability to trust your teammates.
I don't make that assumption at all.. your interpretation is on you, not me..

I'm obviously fully aware of the different aspects involved in late game situations..

LeBron's mentality works for him because of how physically gifted he his, athletically and skill wise.. he can mentally disengage from a ball game and still end up making better decisions than Kobe because of his passing skill and vision.. Kobe doesn't have that..

There are plenty of times where LeBron has simply not given his all.. its well documented.. thats all there is to it.

Whether he makes better winning decisions by default is irrelevant

[ripthekik]

He's a better player and shoots a higher percentage all the time. He's bigger, stronger, faster, more agile, and has a better feel for the game. Better instincts, passing, vision.. etc..

But I've never questioned Kobe's will to win. I sometimes question LeBron 's mental fortitude.

Kobe can out right suck but still be giving everything he has.. and LeBron can be putting up 32 11 6 and still not look fully engaged mentally.

Stats are meaningless. Just watch them play, the interviews, pick up on their demeanor, their habits..

LeBron has very childish tendencies.. very annoying guy.. just so happens to be the most naturally gifted athlete ever... good for him. Doesn't mean I'm gonna dick ride him for hitting the genetic lottery..
a good post..

[Vertical-24]

Yikes, perception is a powerful thing when the hype machine is in full swing. Even when in actuality it isn't necessarily deserved.

This is basically why I stopped being a fan of Kobe. He had all these amazing regular season games, that in retrospect and in the context of his performance against better teams particularly in the playoffs and Finals made him seem kind of overrated.

Not a bad player, still top ten. Just maybe not as great as the MJ and even LeBron comparisons.

Yea he faced some great defenses in the Finals, thats no excuse though. MJ, Bron, Wade saw those gritty, suffocating team defenses in their own conference playoffs before the Finals and comparatively obviously performed better. MJ, LeBron and Wade saw great defenses in the Finals too.

The Kobe cult stays making excuses in order to give their god an extra push to the premier tier all time that he might not deserve. Stick to praising his most redeeming attribute, that absurd longevity.

You stopped being a fan of a player due to media attention? If you enjoy a players game, you enjoy their game. MJ is the undisputed GOAT, but the media shoved his ass down everyone's throat. The man could do no wrong.

Now, i'm a Lakers fan and have been since day one. Kobe is an amazing player, legendary by all means. And he has had some extraordinary clutch moments.

But is he overrated in the clutch? Yes he is. This is something i'm prepared to admit without a shadow of a doubt. He's missed way more than he's made. The thing about Kobe's clutch ability that puts him over the top is his willingness and desire to shoot the ball no matter what, if the game is on the line. Nowadays, this is a rare feat. Is Kobe cold-blooded? Hell yeah. Is Kobe a clutch god? Hell no. This is what irks me about Kobe-stans. They can never admit that Kobe is a f*cking human...he has no flaws to them. I've seen Kobe at his best and i've seen him at his absolute worst, and I have no problem criticizing him if I feel he deserves it.

MJ to me is the clutchest player of all time. LeBron can be considered clutch as well, and even he has choked more times then not. The fascination with "clutch" and its media driven bull$hit is annoying. Let's focus on wins. And Kobe has won many a time.

[Hoopz2332]

Interesting stuff. Here is another metric;

Shot to tie or take lead with 2 minutes or less left in the playoffs since 2001;

Kobe 17/50
Dirk 14/30
Lebron 21/43

Shot to tie or take lead with 5 minutes or less left in the playoffs since 2001;

Kobe 30/88
Dirk 25/52
Lebron 36/74

Love him or hate him, Lebron has been damn clutch in the playoffs overall for his career.

Playoff games played during above sample;

Kobe 170
Dirk 128
Lebron 138

Most interesting aspect of this stuff is that Lebron actually averages more of the above shots per playoff game than Kobe does. Something that doesn't fit with the "scared" narrative much at all.

Can you provided links? By the way, thanks for more Ether to these Kobeites:oldlol:

[I<3NBA]

Kobe is not clutch. but he has killer instinct. he goes in for the kill -- and then misses.

that's what i mean. killer instinct, yet not clutch.

he makes the angry faces too. always a fan favorite.

you have the killer gene if you make that angry face.

[Hoopz2332]

It's not hard to understand...

LeBron is the most gifted natural athlete of all time..

He puts up better stats by default.

LeBron doesn't need to be a "killer" to be one of the all time greats. All he has to do is go out there and have fun and he drops 35 10 and 7 like its nothing. What athlete can perform like he can without some other worldly mental focus?

Because he puts up better stats means he's mentally greater than Kobe? Idiotic..

People criticize LeBron because they feel he's not living up to his FULL POTENTIAL... that is never a question for Kobe or Jordan..

Stats mean absolutely nothing when comparing the mental aspects of the game..

There are the Wilt, Shaq, and LeBron's

and then theres the Jordan, Kobe, Magic and Birds...

LeBron is the better player, Kobe is the more respectable player..


this is some bs:biggums: Lebron just trumps Kobe no matter how you look at it.

[DMAVS41]

Can you provided links? By the way, thanks for more Ether to these Kobeites:oldlol:

basketball reference shot finder



The point was not to diminish Kobe. He's actually a great clutch player overall. One of the best of this era for sure.

He just, for some reason, has really struggled in the playoffs on game winners. That's his only weakness really. His overall clutch play has been amazing in the playoffs for his prime...

It's also true that Lebron is amazing in the clutch in the playoffs especially. He's been truly elite in pretty much any category you can define. Game 7's, elimination games, clutch play, game winning shots...etc.

This notion that Lebron hasn't been super clutch for the entirety of his playoff career is a joke.

The thing people can't get over is that Lebron isn't a great shooter. Yes, he's a good shooter and has improved, but it's not what he wants to do. So he is more prone to struggle at times with confidence in his jumper.

That doesn't make him not clutch, actually, it probably makes him even more clutch considering the skillset isn't great for clutch shooting...and he struggles from the ft line.

It's simple. Kobe is not the best clutch player of the era...Lebron or Dirk probably is. Then Kobe. Durant is great as well, but he's too young to consider him part of the Kobe era.

Why Kobe fans think it's trolling to say Kobe is not the best clutch player of this era is beyond me. It is what it is though...

[madmax]

Kobe's killer instinct = making angry faces.

:lol :cheers:

[jzek]

This thread only proves without a doubt that Jordan is the undisputed GOAT. :applause:

[Solefade]

the ethering of kobe stans/lebron haters in this thread:

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/holy-sht.gif

[ihoopallday]

Does anyone ever stop and think "Why are these guys even in this situation?" You can't hit game winners if your team already has a big lead. I'd rather my team have a sure win, than have to rely on a game winning shot because my star player sucked it up the other three quarters.

[Solefade]

honestly through a 7 page thread, this is the quietest i've ever seen from kobe stans :roll:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Does anyone ever stop and think "Why are these guys even in this situation?" You can't hit game winners if your team already has a big lead. I'd rather my team have a sure win, than have to rely on a game winning shot because my star player sucked it up the other three quarters.

Nah man. That doesn't count as clutch. The entire 2001 playoffs run for the Lakers never happened. The entire word "clutch" didn't have meaning until the stat guys retroactively rebranded it. Win 3 titles while scoring 20-30 ppg. Not clutch. Hit a game winner against the Suns. Not clutch. Hit an absurd number of end of game winners in the same season. Not clutch. Win two more titles. Not clutch.

I can picture it now little kids emulating the clutchest player of our generation. 5....4.....3....2....1...0 Chris Paul with the shot.... ITS IN!!!!....... and the Chris Paul has lead his team to the 2nd round of the playoffs!!!!!!!

[branslowski]

http://i.imgur.com/bO71IFy.png

NBA GM Survey

46.7% say they want Kevin Durant taking the last shot with the game on the line

1. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 46.7%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 40.0%
3. Carmelo Anthony, New York -- 6.7%

:confusedshrug:

Meh, you know who knows more about the NBA than NBA players, coaches, and GMs?....ISH posters.:applause:

Kobe clutch?:oldlol: Myth. Kobe has never done anything on court to prove his clutch. He's a created player who the media and Nike has put together like Frankenstein. Why NBA players, coaches, GMs, majority of the sports world thinks Kobe is clutch?? Easy, because Nike breaks into their houses while they're asleep and implants a brainwashing cord inside their ears and installs fake video of Kobe's clutch 17yrs.

Thank God for ISH posters who obviously don't hate Kobe (lol) for showing us the light. Pretty sure this thread will change our ISH posters fantasies into realities.:applause:

[aj1987]

The same GM's also picked Kevin Love as the best PF in '13, T-Mac as the best SF in '06, and Deron as the best PG in '11.
Picked Durant to start a franchise in '11.
Nash as the best passes in '13.
Lakers as a top 5 defensive team in '13.

:applause:

[Solefade]

Meh, you know who knows more about the NBA than NBA players, coaches, and GMs?....ISH posters.:applause:

Kobe clutch?:oldlol: Myth. Kobe has never done anything on court to prove his clutch. He's a created player who the media and Nike has put together like Frankenstein. Why NBA players, coaches, GMs, majority of the sports world thinks Kobe is clutch?? Easy, because Nike breaks into their houses while they're asleep and implants a brainwashing cord inside their ears and installs fake video of Kobe's clutch 17yrs.

Thank God for ISH posters who obviously don't hate Kobe (lol) for showing us the light. Pretty sure this thread will change our ISH posters fantasies into realities.:applause:

let the stats speak for themselves brah.

[branslowski]

let the stats speak for themselves brah.

Duh, just like last seasons offensive Ratings rankings with Tyson Chandler at num 1.:applause:

[Solefade]

Duh, just like last seasons offensive Ratings rankings with Tyson Chandler at num 1.:applause:

context bro, context.

[lefthook00]

I don't know why it's so hard to understand, it's very clear that LeBron doesn't have the ferocious mentality that Kobe does.

LeBron isn't trying to drop bombs in defenders' faces to close the game every time, but he gets it done in other ways, and his results are better than Kobe's over all.

Kobe's results are not as good statistically, but he wants to destroy you, and that's why he has so many fans. Although he doesn't win them all, and is statistically worse than LBJ and MJ, he is the ultimate savage.

[longtime lurker]

Meh, you know who knows more about the NBA than NBA players, coaches, and GMs?....ISH posters.:applause:

Kobe clutch?:oldlol: Myth. Kobe has never done anything on court to prove his clutch. He's a created player who the media and Nike has put together like Frankenstein. Why NBA players, coaches, GMs, majority of the sports world thinks Kobe is clutch?? Easy, because Nike breaks into their houses while they're asleep and implants a brainwashing cord inside their ears and installs fake video of Kobe's clutch 17yrs.

Thank God for ISH posters who obviously don't hate Kobe (lol) for showing us the light. Pretty sure this thread will change our ISH posters fantasies into realities.:applause:

:oldlol: it's obvious the basketball experts on ISH know secrets that apparently every other person in the league hasn't figured out. Kobe's horrible in the clutch, why bother to even guard him? :confusedshrug: I'd love to see ISH's list of clutch players. It would probably be topped by Shawn Marion because you know FG%

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe's clutch ablity has been overrated by his creepy stans, though.

Hell, LeBron already has more game winners than Kobe in the playoffs....in 7 less seasons.

[Round Mound]

words of the defeated:oldlol:

http://i.imgur.com/OcZOVHr.jpg

:applause:

[AintNoSunshine]

I don't know why it's so hard to understand, it's very clear that LeBron doesn't have the ferocious mentality that Kobe does.

LeBron isn't trying to drop bombs in defenders' faces to close the game every time, but he gets it done in other ways, and his results are better than Kobe's over all.

Kobe's results are not as good statistically, but he wants to destroy you, and that's why he has so many fans. Although he doesn't win them all, and is statistically worse than LBJ and MJ, he is the ultimate savage.

In other words he's selfish, always wanting to play hero ball at the expense of the team. If a teammate is wide open and fully capable of hitting the open shot, why the fukk would you go for a fade away 3 with hand in face? To "destroy" the opponent? Ni99a please

[branslowski]

In other words he's selfish, always wanting to play hero ball at the expense of the team. If a teammate is wide open and fully capable of hitting the open shot, why the fukk would you go for a fade away 3 with hand in face? To "destroy" the opponent? Ni99a please

The way some of you talk u would swear Kobe's a ringless bum.:oldlol:

[lefthook00]

In other words he's selfish, always wanting to play hero ball at the expense of the team. If a teammate is wide open and fully capable of hitting the open shot, why the fukk would you go for a fade away 3 with hand in face? To "destroy" the opponent? Ni99a please

Of course he is selfish and plays hero ball, that's why he is the most loved and most hated(actually I think people hate LeBron more b/c he is the best right now). He is stubborn as HELL, and as a fan and a ball club, you must live and die by him. But he became one of the best players ever and won multiple championships HIS WAY, which is shoot or die trying, you gotta admit you're pretty impressed by the results of playing like such an asshole. He is so stubborn that he outlasted the haters and doubts about three times over now, which is hilarious actually. He is on his 4th hate cycle right now, and he's either gonna win another ring while dropping bombs, or he is gonna tear his achilles again. But yeah, it isn't the best way to play basketball, and the other two are better statistically, sure.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

ISH where the guy with two rings with 2+ All Star teammates per title team knows how to win over the guy with 5 with 1 All Star teammate per title team. :oldlol:

[Nevaeh]

ISH where the guy with two rings with 2+ All Star teammates per title team knows how to win over the guy with 5 with 1 All Star teammate per title team. :oldlol:

Dude, why do you have to be disingenuous in every single post that you make? You know damn well that this thread is about clutch status "Myth Versus Reality", based on the thread title alone.

The thread is not about "how to win", but how clutch you actually are when you're winning. For someone who loves to whine about "mythologists" constantly, it must suck to hell and back having your hero's "myths" shattered daily by lowly Lebron fans.

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif

[TheBigVeto]

The only thing Kobe killed were Mr. Jabbar's, kennethgriffin's and 9erempiree's heterosexual tendencies and intelligence.

[Hoopz2332]

honestly through a 7 page thread, this is the quietest i've ever seen from kobe stans :roll:


exactly:oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Dude, why do you have to be disingenuous in every single post that you make? You know damn well that this thread is about clutch status "Myth Versus Reality", based on the thread title alone.

The thread is not about "how to win", but how clutch you actually are when you're winning. For someone who loves to whine about "mythologists" constantly, it must suck to hell and back having your hero's "myths" shattered daily by lowly Lebron fans.

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif

The myth is that the word "clutch" has ever meant highly efficient.

Who was known as Mr. Clutch years before Kobe was even born? Why doesn't anybody know his "clutch":rolleyes: shooting percentages?

As usual we have to pretend that Kobe is the first guy to get a clutch reputation and shockingly once again the first guy who is patient zero for the stat guys.

[sportjames23]

The only thing Kobe killed were Mr. Jabbar's, kennethgriffin's and 9erempiree's heterosexual tendencies and intelligence.


Add Yao Min'g Foot to that list.

[knicksman]

clearly these betas dont know what killer instinct is. Its not about the clutch shots but the confidence to take the challenge while others would just pass the ball. Its the confidence to take the challenge that you can do it without shaq instead of joining other rivals. Its that confidence that separates an alpha from a beta.

[Deuce Bigalow]

How many rings does Kobe have?

And now many titles have the Miami Heat franchise won?

[HoopsFanNumero1]

How many rings does Kobe have?

And now many titles have the Miami Heat franchise won?

That settles it. Kobe Bryant = Derek Fisher.

[Deuce Bigalow]

That settles it. Kobe Bryant = Derek Fisher.
So Kobe 5, and Miami 3? Is this correct?

[HoopsFanNumero1]

So Kobe 5, and Miami 3? Is this correct?

Horry > Kobe :confusedshrug:

[I<3NBA]

clearly these betas dont know what killer instinct is. Its not about the clutch shots but the confidence to take the challenge while others would just pass the ball. Its the confidence to take the challenge that you can do it without shaq instead of joining other rivals. Its that confidence that separates an alpha from a beta.
that's not confidence. that's just stupidity.

[Hoopz2332]

http://i.imgur.com/h3ZmkPg.png

[Round Mound]

http://i.imgur.com/h3ZmkPg.png

:applause:

[Hoopz2332]

Since 2000 clutch numbers

http://i.imgur.com/rEhQ8it.png

:coleman:

[secund2nun]

Kobe's clutch ablity has been overrated by his creepy stans, though.

Hell, LeBron already has more game winners than Kobe in the playoffs....in 7 less seasons.

This is exactly what I am talking about with hype. Hype is very powerful. Kobe is clearly unclutch yet the media has brainwashed most people to believe not only that he is clutch, but that he is one of the most clutch players in history. Similarly, the media has also brainwashed people to think he is a top 10 player of all time when he is nowhere close. To put it simply- Kobe is the most overrated bball player of all time.

People do not look at the results and facts. They look at the hype and have group think logic. Their thought process: "if everyone agrees to something, there is no way they can be THAT wrong where Kobe is not clutch at all or not close to top 10 of all time." Unfortunately for them, the facts don't give a damn about hype and I am not afraid to speak the truth no matter how small of a minority I am.

[Hoopz2332]

This is exactly what I am talking about with hype. Hype is very powerful. Kobe is clearly unclutch yet the media has brainwashed most people to believe not only that he is clutch, but that he is one of the most clutch players in history. Similarly, the media has also brainwashed people to think he is a top 10 player of all time when he is nowhere close. To put it simply- Kobe is the most overrated bball player of all time.

People do not look at the results and facts. They look at the hype and have group think logic. Their thought process: "if everyone agrees to something, there is no way they can be THAT wrong where Kobe is not clutch at all or not close to top 10 of all time." Unfortunately for them, the facts don't give a damn about hype and I am not afraid to speak the truth no matter how small of a minority I am.


:applause:

[Hoopz2332]

Still no Kobe stans?:biggums: :oldlol: Clutch playoff stats for that azz


http://i.imgur.com/RqK0DhC.png

[Hoopz2332]

lebron james career
reg season - 27.6 ppg (3rd all time) on .575 ts /.524 efg
playoffs - 28.1 ppg (5th all time) on .567 ts /.507 efg
eight 2000+ pt seasons out of 10

kobe bryant career
reg season - 25.5 ppg (10th all time) on .555 ts /.487 efg
playoffs - 25.6 ppg (12th all time) on .541 ts /.480 efg
eight 2000+ pt seasons out of 17

:biggums:

[Leviathon1121]

Not even YMF with his defensive rating agenda wants to pursue this thread, a serious grats to the OP for the apparent slaying of the Kobe stans.

[gts]

Not even YMF with his defensive rating agenda wants to pursue this thread, a serious grats to the OP for the apparent slaying of the Kobe stans.

I think you mistake posters boredom of a tired out debunked topic as a sign of acknowledgement to the OP. It's not, it's just a group of people being bored with a dumb topic

For myself the fact is I've watched Magic's career, Bird's, Jordan's Kobe's and Lebron's, Kobe is clutch and he is a killer there's no arguing he's not. any attempt to deny his greatness is just mental *********ion best left in the privacy of your bathroom... don't forget the tissues

Over Kobe's 17 years coaches, other players, scouts and ex players have all said the same thing about Kobe that refutes the OP... this is not a few folks sounding off it's literally dozens upon dozens of highly respected people in the know, people who have actually been apart of the game all agreeing that Kobe is a clutch player, you do want the ball in his hands because he is clutch, he refuses to lose and he will cut your heart out on the floor...

trying to define a brilliant 17 year career of one of the best to ever play the game by using a handful of stats without context or knowledge of how those moments evolved is a waste of time and furthermore debating this type of topic with people who spew this narrow parametered nonsense only to hate other players for no reason other than he's not on their team is insane

[SamuraiSWISH]

Thanks for the news break:

MJ > your favorite player

[Magic 32]

Still no Kobe stans?:biggums: :oldlol: Clutch playoff stats for that azz


http://i.imgur.com/RqK0DhC.png

http://www.jockjerseys.com/flash/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/james-arenas-6-jersey.jpg

vs.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/715111/s080527_kobe.jpg

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Not even YMF with his defensive rating agenda wants to pursue this thread, a serious grats to the OP for the apparent slaying of the Kobe stans.

Glad to see I'm on your mind 24/7.

I was in here one whole page ago. As expected nobody had an intelligent rebuttal.


The myth is that the word "clutch" has ever meant highly efficient.

Who was known as Mr. Clutch years before Kobe was even born? Why doesn't anybody know his "clutch"shooting percentages?

As usual we have to pretend that Kobe is the first guy to get a clutch reputation and shockingly once again the first guy who is patient zero for the stat guys.

[juju151111]

Glad to see I'm on your mind 24/7.

I was in here one whole page ago. As expected nobody had an intelligent rebuttal.
This thread is about Kobe not West.through:cry:

[zoom17]

Kobe stans got owned in this thread lebron is only 28 and will improve his stats while the other guy is about done:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

This thread is about Kobe not West.through:cry:

It's about the origination of the "clutch" reputation. It didn't start with Kobe. It started with Russell, West, Jordan, Bird, Magic etc.... and it has nothing to do with shooting percentages.

I would bet anything the most "clutch" (read most efficient player in whatever arbitrary cutoff you choose) player of 80-90s were not Bird, Jordan or Magic. It's probably some random scrub.

[KyleKong]

Holy smokes finally decided to check out this thread.

It delivers.

[SamuraiSWISH]

LOL, it's about reliability and performance. Percentage of conversion needs to be taken into account (Kobe) ... so YMF needs to understand that productivity does play a part in being clutch. Just because someone shoots a ton of end of game shots doesn't mean they're a quality clutch player.

And LeBron stans needs to realize clutch is also about having the confidence to actually make the shot attempt in order to be clutch. Not passing it off to Udonis Haslem, or Mario Chalmers in order to pad your percentage or "effectiveness".

Stans of both LeBron and Kobe are consistently defending the indefensible. They're both dumb.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

LOL, it's about reliability and performance. Percentage of conversion needs to be taken into account (Kobe) ... so YMF needs to understand that productivity does play a part in being clutch. Just because someone shoots a ton of end of game shots doesn't mean they're a quality clutch player.

And LeBron stans needs to realize clutch is also about having the confidence to actually make the shot attempt in order to be clutch. Not passing it off to Udonis Haslem, or Mario Chalmers in order to pad your percentage or "effectiveness".

Stans of both LeBron and Kobe are consistently defending the indefensible. They're both dumb.

Why is the guy nicknamed Mr. Clutch 1-8 in the Finals?

:confusedshrug:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Why is the guy nicknamed Mr. Clutch 1-8 in the Finals?

:confusedshrug:
Why is Kobe considered in your opinion to be on Jordan, LeBron, or even Wade's level with those absolutely ATROCIOUS Finals showings in all but maybe 2 of his 7 appearances?

Why is Kobe considered a big game player when in the biggest game of his career he turned in a 6 - 24 performance, and got bailed out by resident loon Ron Artest?

Dat defensive rating.

:oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Why is Kobe considered in your opinion to be on Jordan, LeBron, or even Wade's level with those absolutely ATROCIOUS Finals showings in all but maybe 2 or 3 of his 7 appearances?

Why's Kobe considered a big game player when in the biggest game of his career he turned in a 6 - 24 performance, and got bailed out by resident loon Ron Artest?

:oldlol:

Jordan only faced two defenses in the playoffs on par with with an average Kobe Finals opponent. He shot sub 40% against them.

Lebron had the same fate when he met a similar defensive juggernaut in the 07 Spurs.

Wade's Finals reputation is based on facing a defensive team in the Finals that was less efficient in the regular season than 90% of the defenses Kobe faced in his playoff career.

Kobe hit tons of free throws, played great D and grabbed 15 rebounds as a guard. Most importantly he led the team in 4th quarter scoring and ultimately won the game. Its comical that its called getting bailed out when Ron Artest makes 2 out 7 3pters meanwhile Jordan played with Steve Kerr and Lebron played with Ray Allen.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Oh right...

Efficiency only matters on offense not for team defense.

:oldlol:

[branslowski]

Why is Kobe considered in your opinion to be on Jordan, LeBron, or even Wade's level with those absolutely ATROCIOUS Finals showings in all but maybe 2 of his 7 appearances?

Why is Kobe considered a big game player when in the biggest game of his career he turned in a 6 - 24 performance, and got bailed out by resident loon Ron Artest?

Dat defensive rating.

:oldlol:

Are you trolling these days?...

Not on Wades or LeBron's level?

5 titles 2 Finals MVPs.

Finals MVP Years: 32ppg 6reb 7ast and then 28ppg 8reb 4ast...Can you pull out Artest Finals avgs?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Are you trolling these days?...

Not on Wades or LeBron's level?

5 titles 2 Finals MVPs.

Finals MVP Years: 32ppg 6reb 7ast and then 28ppg 8reb 4ast...Can you pull out Artest Finals avgs?
I didn't say that was my belief ... I was saying it as a rebuttal for YMF's stupid post.

[oh the horror]

What's funny to me about these threads is the amount of energy people spend on Kobe when they aren't fans of his

Equally the same can be said about Jordan/Lebron haters.



So, you're not a fan? Move on with your life.


We could all sit around playing grab ass with these circular arguments forever but the reality is, I can see why a FAN is obsessed but a hater also spends equal amount of time discussing Kobe? That's just funny

[branslowski]

What's funny to me about these threads is the amount of energy people spend on Kobe when they aren't fans of his

Equally the same can be said about Jordan/Lebron haters.



So, you're not a fan? Move on with your life.


We could all sit around playing grab ass with these circular arguments forever but the reality is, I can see why a FAN is obsessed but a hater also spends equal amount of time discussing Kobe? That's just funny

This.:oldlol:

I mean Op even self bumped his own thread multiple times just to keep it on the front page. N!gga postin 3yr old clutch stats just to help his self sleep. These dudes worry about Kobe more than his own fans.

The saddest part about this is the fact that this one thread with known Kobe haters circle jerking eachother in it won't change the true reality that Kobe IS clutch and majority of the world along with NBA players, GMs, and coaches along with damn near every retired HOF player agrees with this notion.

Lol at ISH posters who are haters thinking their opinions even matter.:oldlol:

[secund2nun]

Why is Kobe considered in your opinion to be on Jordan, LeBron, or even Wade's level with those absolutely ATROCIOUS Finals showings in all but maybe 2 of his 7 appearances?

Why is Kobe considered a big game player when in the biggest game of his career he turned in a 6 - 24 performance, and got bailed out by resident loon Ron Artest?

Dat defensive rating.

:oldlol:

Even his 2 "good" performances were not that good. 2009 is widely considered to be his best finals performance and he scored 32 ppg on 27 shots per game, 43% fg, 8 apg, like 5-6 rpg, and he was going up against poor perimeter defenders and one of the worst finals teams in NBA history while his elite front court took up all of Howard's attention which left him open.

[secund2nun]

Are you trolling these days?...

Not on Wades or LeBron's level?

5 titles 2 Finals MVPs.

Finals MVP Years: 32ppg 6reb 7ast and then 28ppg 8reb 4ast...Can you pull out Artest Finals avgs?

32 ppg on 27 shots per game 43% fg is garbage. His 2010 finals performance was even worse shooting. It was the lowest fg% of any finals mvp ever.

[branslowski]

32 ppg on 27 shots per game 43% fg is garbage. His 2010 finals performance was even worse shooting. It was the lowest fg% of any finals mvp ever.

Soo... If a player puts up 32ppg 6reb 7ast, It's considered a great All Round performance...But as soon as we show 43%, It's all of a sudden a garbage performance?...:coleman:

ISH stat nerds.I'm glad ppl like youe exist only on this Inside The Nerds site..Cause I'd have to deal with ppl at bars and the barber shop telling me that Reggie Miller, T-Mac, and Iverson were all garbage because they didn't avg 50% fg for their careers on a daily basis.smh

[Greg Oden 50]

Jordan >>>>>>>>>> Leflop Forever

[russwest0]

Jordan >>>>>>>>>> Leflop Forever

Water is wet

[secund2nun]

Soo... If a player puts up 32ppg 6reb 7ast, It's considered a great All Round performance...But as soon as we show 43%, It's all of a sudden a garbage performance?...:coleman:

ISH stat nerds.I'm glad ppl like youe exist only on this Inside The Nerds site..Cause I'd have to deal with ppl at bars and the barber shop telling me that Reggie Miller, T-Mac, and Iverson were all garbage because they didn't avg 50% fg for their careers on a daily basis.smh

Blindly using ppg is very poor logic. 32 PPG is only good if it is done in a proper way. Using 27 shots to get 32 points is BAD.

Please tell me you understand that PPG means NOTHING unless it is done with at least decent efficiency. What Kobe did in the 2009 and 2010 finals is like averaging 300 passing yards on 45 pass attempts per game. Doesn't mean jack.

32 ppg on 27 shots 43% fg is bad period. There is no way around it. That is a fact.

[Hoopz2332]

Jordan >>>>>>>>>> Leflop Forever

Jordan >>>>>>>>>> Leflop>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Brickbe

[Trollsmasher]

OP is doing a great job of maintaining this thread. I would appreciate some newer stats:bowdown:

[Hoopz2332]

OP is doing a great job of maintaining this thread. I would appreciate some newer stats:bowdown:


Some more:lol


Kobe and the Clutch Playoff Performance Myth (2011)



In my 25 plus years of following the NBA, one of the more fascinating phenomena to me has been the plight of those that I refer to as “Kobe Nation”. Now, I’m not referring to Kobe “fans” - Many of those are a dime a dozen, stuffing the All-Star ballot box, displaying their #24 jerseys during road games, and riding the Kobe-train as long as the Lakers remain on top. No, I’m talking about Kobe Nation – those who have repeatedly extolled the virtues of Kobe Bryant while partaking on a daily quest to defend his basketball legacy, game performances, and polarizing personality. They are his apostles, and their fervor rivals that of even the most religious of zealots. They respond to criticism, deserved or undeserved, with an inverse defiance that embodies the personality of their hero; the more you critique them, the more combative they will become, the less they will listen, and the more likely you will be called a “hater”. For every action, there is a reaction.

Earlier in the season, [b]ESPN’s Henry Abbott questioned Bryant’s status as the most “clutch” player in the NBA, and as you can imagine, Kobe Nation responded with a fury. Specifically, Abbott defended his stance by citing the Game Winning/Game Tying Shot metric traditionally used by coaches and GMs when scouting opposing teams – shot attempts in the final 24 seconds of a game during which a player’s team is either tied or trails by three or fewer points. And during Kobe’s 15-year career (regular season and playoffs), the results showed that he made only 36 game winning/game tying shots while missing a stellar 79, or 36/115.

So why then is Kobe Bryant considered to be the unanimous first choice among GMs, coaches, and players for taking the game winning/game tying shot for all the marbles? Abbott cites the media’s propensity to exhaust the highlight reel, limitations of human memory, and our attraction to flashiness rather than substance as the primary reasons for why fans, coaches, players, and GMs are misguided]. In sum, people usually remember Bryant’s makes, which are undoubtedly spectacular in nature, but not his misses.

So where do I stand?

First a plea to Kobe Nation…. Allow me to go on record by stating that Kobe Bryant is one of the 10 greatest players to ever play the game. By the time he retires, he will likely be top 5. He is a phenomenal all-around player in every aspect of the game, and possesses a unique combination of talent and skill, that in my opinion, can only be rivaled by Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, LeBron James and Hakeem Olaujuwon. He also has a basketball IQ that is simply off the charts – a unique feel for the game that despite his numerous injuries, has allowed him to remain physically effective in a manner that is traditionally reserved for 20-somethings. Other than Michael Jordan, I have yet to see a player who displays the same level of ferocity, stubbornness, and will to win that Kobe Bryant does.

However, Henry Abbott is right. Kobe Bryant IS overrated in the clutch, and even more so when it comes to game winning/game tying shots. That’s right Kobe Nation, you heard me. In which universe does missing 79 out of 115 game winning/game tying shots constitute clutchness? Clutchness to me has always been defined basically and inherently. You either succeed and come through for your team, when your team needs you the most, or you don’t. And in 115 instances, during the time in which Bryant’s teams have needed him the most, he has succeeded only 36 times while failing 79 times. That’s a 31% success rate folks. It’s that simple.

We are not talking about a complex John Hollinger formula or algorithm. We are talking about a fairly straight forward metric – less than 24 seconds, time winding down, ball in Kobe’s hands, chance to win or tie, miss or make. All other variables are irrelevant:

- “Kobe is the most fearless”

- “Kobe wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game”

- “Kobe has the ability to make the most spectacular shots”

None of this matters. The only thing that matters is the result.

So that got me thinking – if the 36/115 stat includes both playoffs and regular season, how has Bryant performed in game winning and game tying shot situations during the playoffs alone? After all, playoff games are the ones that count the most, right? The pinnacle of pressure? The most important of time of the year when everything is at stake? Is there really a more clutch opportunity than a game winning/game tying shot in a playoff game?

The answer: Bryant is 7/25 or 28% -slightly worse during the playoffs than the regular season.

Keep in mind that the game winning/game tying shot is only ONE metric of clutch, and in a future article we will post additional data reviewing Kobe’s performance during the last 2 minutes, last 5 minutes, and the entire 4Q, which further substantiates my point. However, for now, we will focus on the game winning/game tying shot metric, which in my mind, represents the MOST pressure packed situations in a game.

Below is a breakdown of game winning/game tying shot attempt throughout Kobe Bryant’s 15 year career:

http://i.imgur.com/eCV55FP.png

[Mr Exlax]

Kobe is a killer. He his. You can't deny it. He makes the correct basketball play in crunch time. There's more to basketball than scoring.

[Trollsmasher]

Kobe is a killer. He his. You can't deny it. He makes the correct basketball play in crunch time. There's more to basketball than scoring.
Not if Kobe has something to say about that:no:

[crisoner]

Stupid kids hating on a Bball legend.

SMH

[secund2nun]

Kobe is a fraud- a total phony. He is/was nowhere as good as they say he is/was and he is unclutch from everything from his game winners, NBA finals play, overall drop in his playoff performance, and even his constant game 7 and elimination game chokes.

[crisoner]

Kobe is a fraud- a total phony. He is/was nowhere as good as they say he is/was and he is unclutch from everything from his game winners, NBA finals play, overall drop in his playoff performance, and even his constant game 7 and elimination game chokes.

You must not watch B-ball

:rolleyes:

[Mr Exlax]

Not if Kobe has something to say about that:no:


:lol :lol :lol

[Lebron23]

Bump for Mr. Jabbar and friends. You guys disappeared after the Heat won their 2nd straight championship.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Bump for Mr. Jabbar and friends. You guys disappeared after the Heat won their 2nd straight championship.

i was right here giving props to ray allen what ya smokin doe

[riseagainst]

Bump for Mr. Jabbar and friends. You guys disappeared after the Heat won their 2nd straight championship.

you are such a sore bandwagon winner. Just be happy you jumped on the bandwagon of a winning team.

[Lebron23]

i was right here giving props to ray allen what ya smokin doe

You disappeared ala Kobe in Game 7.

[Lebron23]

you are such a sore bandwagon winner. Just be happy you jumped on the bandwagon of a winning team.

u maddddddd??????

[riseagainst]

u maddddddd??????

no. But it's really evident that you are incredibly frustrated. Lebron already has a family. He's not looking for a creepy fan to suck his d1ck.

[Lebron23]

no. But it's really evident that you are incredibly frustrated. Lebron already has a family. He's not looking for a creepy fan to suck his d1ck.

What are you talking about?? You are clearly a homosexual. Let's talk about basketball.

Jordan and Lebron are killers.

[Greg Oden 50]

Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>> Lebron Forever

[Mr. Jabbar]

no. But it's really evident that you are incredibly frustrated. Lebron already has a family. He's not looking for a creepy fan to suck his d1ck.


:roll: :roll:

[riseagainst]

What are you talking about?? You are clearly a homosexual. Let's talk about basketball.

Jordan and Lebron are killers.

:roll:

[Hoopz2332]

lebron adding to clutch archive..

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ev2Xf02E8g4/UpFs2YA6MkI/AAAAAAAAAPI/zd_i9awtlO0/s1600/lbgame1.gif

[Magic 32]

lebron adding to clutch archive..

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ev2Xf02E8g4/UpFs2YA6MkI/AAAAAAAAAPI/zd_i9awtlO0/s1600/lbgame1.gif

and its not a lay-up.

Rare treat.

[branslowski]

and its not a lay-up.

Rare treat.

This.

Also op desperately bumpin his own thread (which includes old outdated ESPN "clutch" arbitrary stats) ne chance he gets.:oldlol:

[Magic 32]

What are you talking about?? You are clearly a homosexual.

Jordan and Lebron are killers.

What did they kill exactly. :roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.ohmygahh.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/chris-pine-star-trek-gif-orgasm.gif

[Magic 32]

This.

Also op desperately bumpin his own thread (which includes old outdated ESPN "clutch" arbitrary stats) ne chance he gets.:oldlol:

Yes, I

[Hoopz2332]

[QUOTE=Magic 32]Yes, I

[Magic 32]

all of lebron clucth and unclutch stats are inccluded in his %...just look at @ all of the graphs and charts I posted.

Give me a year-by-year breakdown of Kobe and Lebron. Then you got my attention.

Kobe pretty much destroyed his statistics between 04-05 & 06-07.

[Hoopz2332]

Give me a year-by-year breakdown of Kobe and Lebron. Then you got my attention.

Kobe pretty much destroyed his statistics between 04-05 & 06-07.

Since 2000-2012 span in reg season

http://i.imgur.com/rEhQ8it.png

[DuMa]

http://i.imgur.com/7EfbL0O.jpg

[WindmiLL]

^^ Ouch :lol

[FKAri]

Since 2000-2012 span in reg season

http://i.imgur.com/rEhQ8it.png

holy chit. Look at Nash's 3p%. Nash and Wade had the least assisted clutch shots is that what the chart is saying? Makes sense cuz who's gonna be passing the ball to them?

[DonDadda59]

He got dat killer underbite doe :bowdown:

http://clippers.blog.ocregister.com/files/2012/01/Kobe-Bryant-Underbite.jpg

[Hoopz2332]

http://i.imgur.com/7EfbL0O.jpg


Ouch:oldlol:

*saves*

[Hoopz2332]

Not about clutch stats but I'll post it anyway

http://i.imgur.com/qrUMVRX.png

[Ronnie]

I don't like James . Kobe , without that attitude of his , should be alright .
Frankly , there shouldn't any comparisons between such big players .

[Nash]

Stats must be Kobe's worst enemy.

[Stringer Bell]

Interesting stats and charts.

[navy]

http://i.imgur.com/7EfbL0O.jpg
:biggums:

[Trollsmasher]

sticky this thread

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe, once again, proves to be the most alpha player of this generation. The evidence supports him not deferring like a coward.

Kobe takes all the pressure upon himself, like a true great, win or lose.

While others act like it's a damn hot potato to pad their stats.

[dubeta]

Kobe's career is full of "myths"

his stans engaging in hyperbole to crown kobe, and talk about qualitative things like "how it looks" etc

Actually looking at advanced stats and facts embarrass kobe like crazy :oldlol:

[played0ut]

The 'killer' idea isn't myth-- it refers to the attitude of the player.


The utmost confidence in yourself and your skills. Never shying away from big moments, and not fearing failure. It takes a special type of person to do that. I believe it's completely innate.

Lebron himself has admitted that he's scared of failing, hence why he feared trying.

Lebron's not on the level of Bird/MJ/Kobe, but he's since gained mental fortitude, and i'm legit happy for him. :applause:

[Hoopz2332]

The 'killer' idea isn't myth-- it refers to the attitude of the player.


The utmost confidence in yourself and your skills. Never shying away from big moments, and not fearing failure. It takes a special type of person to do that. I believe it's completely innate.

Lebron himself has admitted that he's scared of failing, hence why he feared trying.

Lebron's not on the level of Bird/MJ/Kobe, but he's since gained mental fortitude, and i'm legit happy for him. :applause:


LBJ is on a level above Kobe:applause:

[Hoopz2332]

sticky this thread


yes sir:cheers:

[played0ut]

LBJ is on a level above Kobe:applause:

Raw talent-wise? I agree, actually. I think he's above virtually all NBA players aside from Wilt/Shaq in that respect.


His lack of ferocious competitive drive is my only knock against him.

And it's not even a real knock. He's not 'worse' because he doesn't have it. He's just... not as good. (There's a difference).


But another way to look at it is that there's nothing wrong with not being pathologically competitive, to rather die than lose. :oldlol:

[Nevaeh]

Raw talent-wise? I agree, actually. I think he's above virtually all NBA players aside from Wilt/Shaq in that respect.


His lack of ferocious competitive drive is my only knock against him.

And it's not even a real knock. He's not 'worse' because he doesn't have it. He's just... not as good. (There's a difference).


But another way to look at it is that there's nothing wrong with not being pathologically competitive, to rather die than lose. :oldlol:


Dude, you can believe that you can knock out anybody for 24 hours a day. But if you're always getting put on your ass, what difference does it make? It's about the bottom line, or "end result" so to speak. Not what you "believe" you can accomplish.

Lebron has proven he doesn't "talk about it" but " be about it" more times than Kobe, regardless of how they "looked" while trying to accomplish things, as far as being clutch goes.

[thefatmiral]

I still remain unconvinced. probably because I watched him best my favorite team. his shot jacking got his team wins .

[Hoopz2332]

:pimp:

[knicksman]

Lebron only became a killer once he had the assurance of silver/stern being on his side

[Fudge]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClXdOhhWkAA3H_f.jpg

>>>>>


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuF13MYCEAAkiVK.jpg
ayeeeeeeeeeeee

brodie went in :banana:

[FireDavidKahn]

At the end of the day, only losers respect bran
As a Knicks fan, you should be his #1 fan then.

[AirBonner]

We have known this for quite a while

[ImKobe]

We have known this for quite a while

If you knew this for a while, why are you bumping 6 yr old threads and still act so insecure on this topic? Kobe stans have been over it since his death yet you idiots still want to drag his name into these debates and talk shit about him..

[Baller789]

If you knew this for a while, why are you bumping 6 yr old threads and still act so insecure on this topic? Kobe stans have been over it since his death yet you idiots still want to drag his name into these debates and talk shit about him..

Jordan fans never did drag Kobe's name after his demise, Brontards tho have no shame.

[1987_Lakers]

If you knew this for a while, why are you bumping 6 yr old threads and still act so insecure on this topic? Kobe stans have been over it since his death yet you idiots still want to drag his name into these debates and talk shit about him..

Meltdown