Derrick Rose vs CP3

[juju151111]

Who will be better this season?

[Fallguy20]

I am looking for CP3 to do better in leading his team deeper into the playoffs and whatnot, Derrick Rose to have more highlights and clutchness.

"Better" is weird like that... I go with CP3

[ripthekik]

They are different players. Quite hard to compare despite being the same position. I'd take D-Rose though, my personal preference.

[Young X]

CP. Best PG since 2008.

[juju151111]

CP. Best PG since 2008.
:lol nope.

[Mass Debator]

CP3 but I definitely wouldn't mind D-Rose.

[Young X]

:lol nope.:kobe: Yes.

[demons2005]

what a joke. Rose's last heatlthy season he was the frickin MVP last year CP3 lost with home court advantage in the 1st round. And trying to come up with different categories where CP might have an edge to be able to say its a apple to oranges comparison just shows your biases. we're talking about better player here, this is an apple to apple slice comparison. on the one hand you have a complete player who was the youngest MVP ever and will be challenging Lebron for this year's. On the other hand you have a never-was passing specialist who is finishing up his career surrounded by talent but unable to bring them out of the first round,

[juju151111]

:kobe: Yes.
08 is still his best season lol. He gotten worse since.

[tmacattack33]

CP3, unless Derrick Rose somehow returns better than he was before he got hurt.

[Young X]

08 is still his best season lol. He gotten worse since.So what, he's still better than Rose. Deal with it.

[kurple]

Rose

CP3 should get the Melo treatment for choking in the playoffs

[juju151111]

So what, he's still better than Rose. Deal with it.
Why would I get mad? he returning to take back his crown. You mad tho bro?

[PJR]

Neither. All small high usage point guards are the most overrated players in the league.

[tmacattack33]

Rose

CP3 should get the Melo treatment for choking in the playoffs

CP3's "choke" with no Griffin last year pales in comparison to D Rose vs Miami in the last playoff series in which he played in.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yea, it's just the preseason, but Rose looks quicker, more agile and poised.

This might be his best year yet.

[Young X]

#1 PER in the playoffs = choking? Dumb ass n!ggas.

[fpliii]

CP. Best PG since 2008.

This, unquestionably. I do think Rose could challenge him for best PG though, he looks great so far in preseason.

[juju151111]

This, unquestionably. I do think Rose could challenge him for best PG though, he looks great so far in preseason.
How was cp3 the best in 2010 and 2011?

[fpliii]

How was cp3 the best in 2010 and 2011?

I thought he meant as in for the time period 08-present as a whole. 2010 he wasn't obviously, but 2011 he was IMO. Even if you give either year to someone else, he's certainly been the best in the other four seasons.

[juju151111]

I thought he meant as in for the time period 08-present as a whole. 2010 he wasn't obviously, but 2011 he was IMO. Even if you give either year to someone else, he's certainly been the best in the other four seasons.
You agreed to his point that co3 was the best through 08-13. He wasn't neither of those seasons nor 2012. He was obviously better in 2013 because Rose didn't play. Its going to go back again. We will see ur tone in January- February though. I made this thread to bump later on.

[Young X]

^ Rose did nothing better than CP in 2012.

[fpliii]

You agreed to his point that co3 was the best through 08-13. He wasn't neither of those seasons nor 2012. He was obviously better in 2013 because Rose didn't play. Its going to go back again. We will see ur tone in January- February though. I made this thread to bump later on.

2010 he wasn't. 2011 I think he was, and this is not an outlandish opinion. 2008, 2009, 2012, 2013 he certainly was.

I never made any promises that CP3 will be better this year, Rose has looked great so far in the preseason (like not contender for best PG, more like strong MVP candidate and potential for an amazing season). I think there's a chance he'll finally surpass Paul this season.

[juju151111]

^ Rose did nothing better than CP in 2012.
MVP:applause: u mad bro?

[Mr Exlax]

CP3 is the better traditional PG while I think Rose is just the better player.

[Young X]

MVP:applause: u mad bro?He didn't win MVP in 2012 and was worse than CP in damn near every facet of the game.

[juju151111]

He didn't win MVP in 2012 and was worse than CP in damn near every facet of the game.
Rose was injured throughout the season in 2012. It doesn't matter Rose going to dominate his dumbass this season. Paul is in his prime and should be Betterr according to you but this will be like it always is. Rose will dominate him when they meet.

[fpliii]

Rose was injured throughout the season in 2012. It doesn't matter Rose going to dominate his dumbass this season. Paul is in his prime and should be Betterr according to you but this will be like it always is. Rose will dominate him when they meet.

I think you're painting me and Young X like Rose haters, but I don't think that's the case. Preferring CP3 in the years we've mentioned isn't a huge deal. I think I've seen him speak positively about Rose before, and I actually picked Rose to win MVP this year:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314626&page=2

I think you're just a bit of a homer. Nothing wrong with that though, my good man. :cheers:

[Young X]

Rose was injured throughout the season in 2012. It doesn't matter Rose going to dominate his dumbass this season. Paul is in his prime and should be Betterr according to you but this will be like it always is. Rose will dominate him when they meet.Even if he does so what? h2h matchups don't mean sh!t when determining who the better player is. Melo sh!ts on KD when they face each other, does that mean he's a better player? Stupid.

[juju151111]

I think you're painting me and Young X like Rose haters, but I don't think that's the case. Preferring CP3 in the years we've mentioned isn't a huge deal. I think I've seen him speak positively about Rose before, and I actually picked Rose to win MVP this year:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314626&page=2

I think you're just a bit of a homer. Nothing wrong with that though, my good man. :cheers:
We will see in a couple of months.

[juju151111]

Even if he does so what? h2h matchups don't mean sh!t when determining who the better player is. Melo sh!ts on KD when they face each other, does that mean he's a better player? Stupid.
He going to dominate h2h and have a better season.

[SilkkTheShocker]

LeBron James

[Pointguard]

Chris Paul has been giving signs that he's going to go for MVP this year. Well I can't place his saying he's going to retire early in favor of his family after getting what he wanted this year (maybe the thought of playing hard defense has freaked him). So I expect it to be a great year with he, Rose, Kyrie with something to prove.

Last year CP3 definitely had a window to show he could have a year like Rose did in '11. He had a better frontcourt than Rose did, two scorers that were much better scorers than anybody on the Bulls, a way more athletic team, and they had way more familiarity yet they underachieved. Give Rose that team and they have the best record in the league and I believe they will play harder and better. The frontcourt of the Clippers plays a tier below what they should be playing. Blake and Jordan are effectively worse players now. Noah and Boozer, who really missed Rose last year, overachieve and shouldn't be playing better than the Clipper's tandem. The Clippers are a point guards dream: Tall athletic jumping big men, creators, high percentage shooters, versatile wings, few injuries and all time great athlete/star with HOF potential... what Rose did in 2011 was really special despite having little to work with from the PG position.

I think Rose has the edge. And Chris Paul has a chance this year to go deep in the MVP discussion like he should have last year.

[ralph_i_el]

Chris Paul has been giving signs that he's going to go for MVP this year. Well I can't place his saying he's going to retire early in favor of his family after getting what he wanted this year (maybe the thought of playing hard defense has freaked him). So I expect it to be a great year with he, Rose, Kyrie with something to prove.

Last year CP3 definitely had a window to show he could have a year like Rose did in '11. He had a better frontcourt than Rose did, two scorers that were much better scorers than anybody on the Bulls, a way more athletic team, and they had way more familiarity yet they underachieved. Give Rose that team and they have the best record in the league and I believe they will play harder and better. The frontcourt of the Clippers plays a tier below what they should be playing. Blake and Jordan are effectively worse players now. Noah and Boozer, who really missed Rose last year, overachieve and shouldn't be playing better than the Clipper's tandem. The Clippers are a point guards dream: Tall athletic jumping big men, creators, high percentage shooters, versatile wings, few injuries and all time great athlete/star with HOF potential... what Rose did in 2011 was really special despite having little to work with from the PG position.

I think Rose has the edge. And Chris Paul has a chance this year to go deep in the MVP discussion like he should have last year.

I agree with everything except the bolded points. BG played a ton of minutes his 1st season and now everyone shits on him because his per game numbers don't look as good. He's a much better player now.

With dudley and JJ spreading the floor, CP3 should have 10+ APG this year. Clippers are going to be the best offensive team in the league.


The big difference between rose and CP3 is that CP3's team is always going to have a good offense. Even when Rose won the MVP the bulls had a bad O and he was running it.

[Legends66NBA7]

^Is this the 2011 Bulls vs 2013 Clippers ?

Can't see how that Clippers were a better team.

[NumberSix]

Let Rose get up to Tony Parker's level before we start putting him into "best PG" conversations.

[KyleKong]

Rose

CP3 should get the Melo treatment for choking in the playoffs

:biggums: how did Paul choke?

Griffin, their second best player, was injured. Paul attempted to carry the team all by himself and did the best he could.

By that logic Durant should be a choke artist against Memphis.

[Pointguard]

I agree with everything except the bolded points. BG played a ton of minutes his 1st season and now everyone shits on him because his per game numbers don't look as good. He's a much better player now.

With dudley and JJ spreading the floor, CP3 should have 10+ APG this year. Clippers are going to be the best offensive team in the league.

The big difference between rose and CP3 is that CP3's team is always going to have a good offense. Even when Rose won the MVP the bulls had a bad O and he was running it.
Blake should have progressed some. He's the only PF in recent times to have better rookie numbers than Duncan, KG, K Malone and Barkley. There should be no reason why in his third year he would be getting more than 8 less points and 5 less rebounds than KLove the year before. 18 and 8 for the guy who is one of the top two freaks in the game.

He could be better but production and lack of progress in those areas is alarming huge. Nobody loses 2 ppg and 2 rebs per game yearly. You can't show me a player another PF that has shown that weird type of progress as they head toward their prime. Now Noah is somebody whose production could go down and you obviously see progression.


^Is this the 2011 Bulls vs 2013 Clippers ?

Can't see how that Clippers were a better team.

I spelt it out. For a point guard its not really close.

But here it is again.

He had a better frontcourt than Rose did, two scorers that were much better scorers than anybody on the Bulls, a way more athletic team, and they had way more familiarity yet they underachieved. Give Rose that team and they have the best record in the league and I believe they will play harder and better. The frontcourt of the Clippers plays a tier below what they should be playing. Blake and Jordan are effectively worse players now. Noah and Boozer, who really missed Rose last year, overachieve and shouldn't be playing better than the Clipper's tandem. The Clippers are a point guards dream: Tall athletic jumping big men, creators, high percentage shooters, versatile wings, few injuries and all time great athlete/star with HOF potential... what Rose did in 2011 was really special despite having little to work with from the PG position.

The Bulls played harder. But that is also a character of their leader.

[Young X]

He could be better but production and lack of progress in those areas is alarming huge. Nobody loses 2 ppg and 2 rebs per game yearly. You can't show me a player another PF that has shown that weird type of progress as they head toward their prime. Now Noah is somebody whose production could go down and you obviously see progression.That's because he went down from 38 MPG to 32 MPG. It has nothing to do with him regressing, his scoring, passing, efficiency have all improved since then, it's his minutes that have regressed along with having less responsibility due to playing with better players.
I spelt it out. For a point guard its not really close.

But here it is again.

He had a better frontcourt than Rose did, two scorers that were much better scorers than anybody on the Bulls, a way more athletic team, and they had way more familiarity yet they underachieved.You keep bringing up offense when the Bulls mediocre ranked offense wasn't why they were winning games, it was their DEFENSE and REBOUNDING winning them games, not offense. Why bring up offense when the Clippers offense ran by CP was much better than the Bulls offense? Why are you ignoring that Rose had much better defenders, rebounders and coaching on his team along with playing weaker teams in the playoffs?

[Hoopz2332]

cp3 sh1ts all over rose

[ralph_i_el]

Blake should have progressed some. He's the only PF in recent times to have better rookie numbers than Duncan, KG, K Malone and Barkley. There should be no reason why in his third year he would be getting more than 8 less points and 5 less rebounds than KLove the year before. 18 and 8 for the guy who is one of the top two freaks in the game.

He could be better but production and lack of progress in those areas is alarming huge. Nobody loses 2 ppg and 2 rebs per game yearly. You can't show me a player another PF that has shown that weird type of progress as they head toward their prime. Now Noah is somebody whose production could go down and you obviously see progression.



I spelt it out. For a point guard its not really close.

But here it is again.

He had a better frontcourt than Rose did, two scorers that were much better scorers than anybody on the Bulls, a way more athletic team, and they had way more familiarity yet they underachieved. Give Rose that team and they have the best record in the league and I believe they will play harder and better. The frontcourt of the Clippers plays a tier below what they should be playing. Blake and Jordan are effectively worse players now. Noah and Boozer, who really missed Rose last year, overachieve and shouldn't be playing better than the Clipper's tandem. The Clippers are a point guards dream: Tall athletic jumping big men, creators, high percentage shooters, versatile wings, few injuries and all time great athlete/star with HOF potential... what Rose did in 2011 was really special despite having little to work with from the PG position.

The Bulls played harder. But that is also a character of their leader.
leader?
You mean Tom Thibedeu?

Well that's a big factor too. BG and CP3 have had Vinny del negro :roll: :roll: so essentially no coach. Billups could have retired and taken over the job midseason

BG's per 36 numbers

10-11- 21.3-11.4-3.6 on 15.9 attempts per 36
11-12- 20.6-10.8-3.2 on 15.4 attempts per 36
12-13- 20.0-9.2-4.1 on 14.9 attempts per 36

His 2p FG%'s
10-11 51%
11-12 55.6%
12-13 54.8%


He's just playing with better players. His rookie year the clips were BAD. They forced it to griffin a lot because there was nothing else to do. Now he has other scorers, and another big rebounder in DJ. Individual numbers really don't matter that much.

How did the Clippers underachieve last year exactly? They were the best clippers team in history. They had an unlucky draw in the first round and their best big got hurt:confusedshrug:

[Pointguard]

That's because he went down from 38 MPG to 32 MPG. It has nothing to do with him regressing, his scoring, passing, efficiency have all improved since then, it's his minutes that have regressed along with having less responsibility due to playing with better players.
I can agree with some of that but he shouldn't be getting 8 rebs a game as a starter now period. That's just bad. 18 ppg isn't where he should be at either. If Kevin Love was healthy last year it would have not surprised people if he doubled Blakes production in points and rebounds. That shouldn't sit well with you.



You keep bringing up offense when the Bulls mediocre ranked offense wasn't why they were winning games, it was their DEFENSE and REBOUNDING winning them games, not offense. Why bring up offense when the Clippers offense ran by CP was much better than the Bulls offense? Why are you ignoring that Rose had much better defenders, rebounders and coaching on his team along with playing weaker teams in the playoffs?
I brought it up once. The Clipper offense was good but I already gave the reasons for it. Did you read it wrong.

According to you, its progress that the Clippers don't rebound - look at the top of this post. If Deandre Jordan and Blake progress naturally like all other front court players they definitely out-rebound the Noah and Boozer.

The Bulls strategy of winning games is first to outscore the other team, second play defense, third rebound. That's why they won more RS games than anybody else. There are no exceptions to that rule when you win the most games. Rose was responsible for more of his offense than any other star player. He was second in usage percentage tops in ppg and the only player top ten in ppg and apg. It was easy for other teams to go at Rose than it was for any other superstar because Rose didn't have finishers, consistent shooters, explosive scorers or other creators on his team that year. His team had a load of injuries. He was in a new system with a new coach. But no excuses, they outscored all the elite teams for the last two and half months and won more games than the any of the superteams, veteran teams, more talented teams, did. But having one offensive weapon always catches up to you in the playoffs.

[Pointguard]

leader?
You mean Tom Thibedeu?
I can give you a few quotes from Thibes, Pippen, Boozer etc. about their leader.
Whenever, a team makes a transition in coaching, system and players the leader on floor is much more important.


How did the Clippers underachieve last year exactly? They were the best clippers team in history. They had an unlucky draw in the first round and their best big got hurt:confusedshrug:
I don't mind that. Rose had that excuse and about ten others all year long. Nobody here talks of how bad Boozer and Noah played in the Miami series. They had to be benched twice in the fourth quarter.

[SamuraiSWISH]

CP3 is by far the best traditional PG in the game. Besides his soft ass flopping. I really do admire his game. Derrick Rose, given his physical tools, competitive edge, and body may make him the better basketball player compared to Paul.

D. Rose usually gets after him in head to heads. I know CP3 fans have to be bitter over that 2011 MVP. So far Rose looks better than his MVP season. More poised, better decision making and passing ... obviously even better, more fluid jumper (which had improved in 2011 too) things look more promising for Rose.

He's younger, has more physical tools (even recovering from major injury) and he has time on his side.

[NumberSix]

CP3 is by far the best traditional PG in the game. Derrick Rose, given his physical tools, competitive edge, and body may make him the better basketball player compared to Paul. D. Rose usually gets after him in head to heads. I know CP3 fans have to be bitter over that 2011 MVP. So far Rose looks better than his MVP season. More poised, better decision making and passing ... obviously even better, more fluid jumper (which had improved in 2011 too) things look more promising for Rose. He's younger, has more physical tools (even recovering from major injury) and he has time on his side.
Lol. Bulls fans delusion knows no bounds. :roll:

Can't wait for this summers excuses.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Lol. Bulls fans delusion knows no bounds. :roll:
He does. What are you watching?

:oldlol:

[Greg Oden 50]

MVP:applause: u mad bro?

media hype :rockon:

[longtime lurker]

CP3 untli his annual playoff collapse.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

CP3 untli his annual playoff collapse.

Repeating yourself won't make this true.

[longtime lurker]

Repeating yourself won't make this true.

Why do I feel we'll be having the same conversation next offseason

[NumberSix]

Repeating yourself won't make this true.
But it's more likely to convince people it's true.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Repeating yourself won't make this true.
Must have amnesia for how well he played against his own Lakers in 2011.

:oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Must have amnesia for how well he played against his own Lakers in 2011.

:oldlol:

Many Lakers fans do. Must be that strong vitriol for the only relevant squad @ Staples.

[longtime lurker]

Many Lakers fans do. Must be that strong vitriol for the only relevant squad @ Staples.

Yes Lakers are so irrelevant that your team had to cover up their championship banners :lol anyways Chris Paul has no excuses this year. A 2nd round flame out won't do. What's the bar set at for Clippers fans? Championship or bust?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yes Lakers are so irrelevant that your team had to cover up their championship banners :lol anyways Chris Paul has no excuses this year. A 2nd round flame out won't do. What's the bar set at for Clippers fans? Championship or bust?

Way to make my point. :oldlol:

[longtime lurker]

Way to make my point. :oldlol:

Oh so you think they covered up the banners because they think th Lakers are irrelevant? Sorry to say but the success of the two franchises has been heavily one sided. It's obvious the Clippers have an inferiority complex.

[TylerOO]

D-Rose and this aint close to me. CP3 is so overrated, it's not even funny.

[joeyjoejoe]

Who knows who gonna have a better season could go either way both are awesome to watch but I'd take cp, as far as h2h they only played 5 times each having outplayed the other twice and one game ya could argue either way

[SamuraiSWISH]

Who knows who gonna have a better season could go either way both are awesome to watch but I'd take cp, as far as h2h they only played 5 times each having outplayed the other twice and one game ya could argue either way
CP3 outplaying Rose strictly within his first 2 seasons?

[Greg Oden 50]

ROSE OVERHYPED AGAIN :facepalm

[russwest0]

GOATbrook shits on them both

[joeyjoejoe]

Why do I feel we'll be having the same conversation next offseason

Cp cops flack for not making conf finals despite his high level of play but honestly its better then roses performance against Miami in the ecf and I'm a rose fan

[poido123]

I hate these type of threads :facepalm

The only outcome from this, is that opposing fanbases will build up hate towards your player and its fans...

[demons2005]

I hate these type of threads :facepalm

The only outcome from this, is that opposing fanbases will build up hate towards your player and its fans...
to me it's OK as long as they aren't filled with unreasonable people. unfortunately any mention of CP in a thread brings his legion of overraters raining insults and excuses on everyone looking to have reasonable discussion

[poido123]

to me it's OK as long as they aren't filled with unreasonable people. unfortunately any mention of CP in a thread brings his legion of overraters raining insults and excuses on everyone looking to have reasonable discussion

sounds about right.

these threads do nothing for me. i know how good rose is, i want team success more than anything..


guys like dunleavy and butler intrigue me more and how they impact the bulls...

[joeyjoejoe]

Yep too much hate, is a shame, a big lbj fan puts down kobe then a big kobe fan bags on lebron (even if he was somewhat of a lbj fan) its the trolling instigators that spoil it for the decent ppl